1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: And now Move the Sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks. 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,239 Speaker 1: What's up, everybody to Move to Sticks podcast. It's your 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: boy Bucky Brooks joined by the Lands Sarahline, my man, LZ. 4 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: What's going on? A sounds finest? What's up? But how 5 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: you doing? How how are you making out after the draft? 6 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,319 Speaker 1: Is it? Uh? What's your schedule? I apologize for not 7 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 1: knowing your schedule. I mean, you know, I go back 8 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: to I go back to morning radio full time, which 9 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: I'm doing the entire week of the draft anyway, So, um, like, 10 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: what does it look like for you? I'm kind of 11 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 1: I get a chill out out there right that compensed 12 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: story pick article, Like, I know you do radio, you 13 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 1: do a little of this, you do? They have you 14 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: doing a lot of a man who wear wears many hats, 15 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: even though I don't hardly ever see where the hat 16 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: in public ever anytime. But it's um lances slowed down 17 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 1: a little bit, like the daily schedule because you know, 18 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: because you're coming on path, we're doing Path and then 19 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: sometimes we were Moved the Sticks and Draft Live and 20 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: all this stuff. So we had three shows shows kind 21 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: of popping at once. Well, now we just have the pod. 22 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 1: I'm doing Total Access a couple of times a week, 23 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 1: but really, man, trying to kick back what I am 24 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: challenging myself to do this year on like last year, 25 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: I'm gonna trying to jump on these dudes a little earlier. 26 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna see if I can put a mid 27 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: year's resolution. Hey man, we're gonna get on this twenty 28 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: twenty three class a little sooner than I did the 29 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: two class, so I can kind of get into those 30 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: beasts and wage those wars on Twitter about who's who 31 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: and what's what. I feel like I get left out 32 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: sometimes when I see everybody else weighing in on a c. J. 33 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: Strood versus Bryce Young, Yetta, YadA, YadA. I think IM 34 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: gonna jumping that debate early. Well, if you want to, 35 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: I mean, you choose to jump in on the debate 36 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: on social media. I mean that's not that's not the 37 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: smoke I'm actually actively coveting. But because you know, it's crazy, 38 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: we get called out for stuff dudes who have not 39 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: even like, spent any time hardly at all putting in 40 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: the work that needs to be put on. That's the 41 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: thing that's crazy to me. I love that everyone has 42 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: an opinion, and I think everyone should add an opinion. 43 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: And sometimes someone else's opinion about a player is gonna 44 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: be right and I'm gonna be wrong, and I'm cool 45 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: with that. I don't I don't mind missing on a player. 46 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 1: I write up almost five hundred a year. I'm gonna 47 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,399 Speaker 1: have lots of Yeah, I don't sweat it. I mean, 48 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: you know, I've got to put my name on all 49 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: of them. They're all out there, They're all a bunch 50 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: of receipts on what I think, guys, and sometimes they 51 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,839 Speaker 1: pan out, sometimes they don't. But um, what I don't 52 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 1: like though, is people not showing the proper level of 53 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: respect when they're engaging you and acting like like you 54 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:39,079 Speaker 1: didn't put the work, like when you know you've put 55 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: more work in on this, or you know you understand 56 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: the way the league works, for for example, in your case, 57 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: with how it works in the building and how the 58 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: discussions go in terms of traits or character or position 59 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:58,119 Speaker 1: you know, variants and position priorities. Things like that, when 60 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: people refuse to even I think, pick your brain or 61 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: even even have a debate about that, or even ask 62 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: a question, like to make themselves more knowledgeable for for 63 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: the debate. It's kind of crazy to me because a 64 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: lot of fans are very or in readers and twitters 65 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: are very respectful, and they will engage you back and forth, 66 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: and they do try to pick up things from you, 67 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: uh to that that they may not have known and 68 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: that you could give them some information. And then you 69 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 1: have other people who are just you know, straight trolls. Yeah, 70 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: I mean that's that's part of it. But I'm well, 71 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: now I'm gonna say this, and this isn't like you 72 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: prompted me to say it, Like, hey, what I think 73 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: you do. It's harder than what most people do. Like 74 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: to sit and have to come up with reports and 75 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: information and documentation on five prospects like that is uncommon 76 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: because even as an area scout in my day, like 77 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: that's that's a different level of work. To know the 78 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: entire draft and to know every something about everybody, Um, 79 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: the last man picked, the undrafted free agent who doesn't 80 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: get picked but signs. That's that's a lot into I 81 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: see your bullet point reports in the background info and 82 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: all of that. That's a hard job. And Lance, I 83 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: think here's the thing, and I think, look, it's our 84 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: own fault because, um, we have created this draft cottage 85 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 1: business where everyone is in the mock drafting and speculating 86 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 1: and those things. And a lot of that is people 87 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 1: want to base your evaluations on how and when a 88 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: guy gets picked. Oh, you said he was the first 89 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: round and he gets picked in the second round. You 90 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: see that was the second or third round and he 91 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 1: goes in the first round. Yeah, but guess what, you know, 92 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 1: what hasn't happened since the drafty played. So I don't 93 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 1: know what they're doing, and I don't know what the 94 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: other team thought, and so our hats and our responsibilities 95 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: have to change. Is one thing to speculate about when 96 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: they're gonna get picked and who they're going to. Now, 97 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 1: it's another thing to say, okay, well now came on, 98 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: Tipodaus with the Giants. What do you think? Oh, I 99 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: like it, Here's why I like it, or here's why 100 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: I don't like it. That's a different conversation. Then, Hey man, 101 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to speculate on where this player could 102 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 1: be when he is available, what his value is, etcetera, etcetera. 103 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: I think it's a harder hustle. It's a lot of 104 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:17,919 Speaker 1: different layers like you talked about. The first one is 105 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: that when I write so and I know and you 106 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: do it on TV, I do it more on the 107 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 1: digital side, but then I do TV later on. You know, 108 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: um we have so when I'm writing up these scattering reports. 109 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: It was funny because I used to have coaches from 110 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: the Cardinals when my dad was with Arizona. I don't 111 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: think he knew that I knew my my evaluation stuff 112 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: at that time like I did because I got into 113 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: it like really tight, really close. Uh. Chris Ballard was 114 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: a mentor for me. He was listening to my radio 115 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: show and so he taught me some of the philosophical 116 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 1: stuff about, you know, how to prioritize positions, some of 117 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: the things that going to the background and stuff and 118 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: that you you don't know unless you know. Somebody has 119 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: to teach you that you knew because you're in buildings 120 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: and you learn more about Okay, this is this trade, 121 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: this trade, Oh, this character. Oh this is immaturity versus 122 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 1: a kid being a turd like they'll call them in 123 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: a building. But sometimes it's just immaturity and you grow 124 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: out of it, and and sometimes a guy has edged 125 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: and then you learn what edges where. I mean, you 126 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 1: gotta have the right locker room for this guy. But 127 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: if you do, and that's why to your point about 128 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: not just Tiboda, I'm not pointing. I'm not picking at Thibodeau. 129 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: But you brought up Thibodeaux. There's certain locker rooms in 130 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 1: certain cities and certain franchises that are good for a 131 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: player and then maybe bad for a player. So um, 132 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: but I knew that putting my name on these prospects. 133 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 1: I found out within the first year or two when 134 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: I started having some some Cardinals coaches at that time 135 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 1: with Bruce arian staff. You know, they didn't they would 136 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,280 Speaker 1: reach out to me about players and and and it's 137 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: not like they're they just wanted to see, well, this 138 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: is what I think of the guy. What do you 139 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 1: think of the guy? You know, It's it's like where 140 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 1: you want to ask someone else, you want to just 141 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: you want to double check your own work. And I 142 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: think was a safe, you know, neutral party that they 143 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 1: could go to and and say this is what I 144 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 1: think about the guy. How do you see them? Oh, 145 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: I don't see him that way. I disagree. Kevin Ross 146 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: coaching the league had great conversations with with Rock about 147 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: d vs UM. I haven't talked to him for a 148 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: couple of years, but it was always great getting a 149 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: coach's perspective. But it also alerted me to the fact 150 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: that not only was I not taking shortcuts, then I 151 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: could never take a shortcut because my name is on 152 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: five hundred players and I know that people around the league, 153 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: that people who do blogs, people who do you know, Um, 154 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: I know, people are agents. They're all looking at it, 155 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: and and people will people know if you're if you're 156 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: shortcut cutting certain things, so I can't. My receipts are 157 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: on all my work. I may not I may not 158 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: hit a guy, but it's not because I shortcuted him. 159 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: I I may have missed an evaluation. But you do 160 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: have the five hundred players. I don't think people understand 161 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: the amount of time I worked seven days a week 162 00:07:55,040 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: for four months, um, you know, and that's just November, December, January, February. 163 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: All the way through the combine, I've got to have 164 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: three seven players written up. It's actually close to about 165 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: three seventy by the by the end of February. But 166 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: you know, you're on TV, people see you all the time. 167 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: I've been in NFL buildings before where NFL networks on 168 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: and they're watching, they see and hear you and so 169 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: and so what happens lancing. You know this because it's 170 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:28,679 Speaker 1: the delicate balance between what you do on radio versus 171 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: what you do on TV. It's totally different, believe it 172 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: or not. Because on radio, on radio, we give it 173 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: to you real, we give it to you with a 174 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: little little edge. We're trying to listen. We got a 175 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: long time to talk about. So we're gonna we're gonna 176 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: lay into this and when I go, I'm gonna go 177 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: big on my opinion on radio because particularly if you 178 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: take callers, oh, you're trying to engage in some of 179 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: that discussions. So if someone wants to smoke, hey, hey, 180 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: you better bring you wood because I got smoked back. 181 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: And so it's it's that that stuff. But then on TV, 182 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: and you're right, when what you say is being broadcast 183 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: and communicated in meeting rooms around the league, you have 184 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 1: to make sure that what you say is what you mean, 185 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: because there have been times I've walked off the set 186 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: and the hotline is ringing, Hey man, what do you 187 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: just say about? And so sometimes you tell it guys 188 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: like Hey, I gotta go real big on TV because 189 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: it's an opinion like part of that is entertainment. But 190 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: then I've learned it's not only that. But you were 191 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: you in the building when Cavan Tipodeau came through. Hey man, 192 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: let me how about you for a minute. But and 193 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: so that's the thing, and that's the thing. Did you 194 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: go to school? Where'd you go to? What degree? Did 195 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: you get your mock draft degree? And did you get 196 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 1: a mock draft degree? I was like, oh, boy, because 197 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: already know how you are. You don't even not only 198 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: do you not mind the smoke, you actively court the smoke. 199 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: So I was like, oh, this is gonna be a 200 00:09:56,120 --> 00:10:00,079 Speaker 1: crazy but like so, but like the funny thing about that, 201 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: and here's for everyone who does this or who aspires 202 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: to do it, is when you put your name on it, 203 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: you better own what you say because eventually, if you 204 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: have to see those guys, you want to be able 205 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 1: to tell them, well, here's why I think this, Here's 206 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: why I wasn't in love with what I saw and say. 207 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: I warned about the effort, the energy, this that people 208 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: have told me this. Now you give them an opportunity 209 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: to responding a lot of times like we came fine, 210 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 1: I got perspective, like, Okay, maybe you didn't know that. 211 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: That's what the expectation is. Is Is that what the standard is, 212 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: and this is how you're supposed to go about your business. 213 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: But I think you know the thing about being a 214 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: scout and being in the business is you're paid to 215 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: have an opinion, and in the building people say I 216 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: want you to have a strong opinion. The guys who 217 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 1: really make it in the league are those who have 218 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: strong opinions, who are able to support it even in 219 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: that you're not gonna be right. And it's that fine 220 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: line between when you're in a meeting room and we're 221 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: having this back and forth on a player, Okay, when 222 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: do I need to back down? Okay, I got that, 223 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: And when do I need to acknowledge that I mean, 224 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: maybe I had a bad day, maybe I saw him wrong. 225 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,079 Speaker 1: You know, those things have to happen because I think 226 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: most people can appreciate when you have the evaluation and 227 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: you look back and say, I missed on that kid, 228 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: I was off, you know, and you go back, and 229 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: I think it's in every evolving process and I think 230 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: lands we've talked about this, how we see again, the 231 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: in the pre draft phase, our opinion can change on 232 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:36,439 Speaker 1: the player after we watching play in the league two 233 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 1: or three years and we can acknowledge that, hey man, 234 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: this is a good player. Yeah yeah, you know, you 235 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: just said something that I don't know. Hopefully people can 236 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 1: recognize this, or or people who have tried to do 237 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: this by watching tape, watching games, you know, try to 238 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: be an an mature evaluator can recognize this. Or maybe 239 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: just watching football and and this is something you recognize, 240 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,839 Speaker 1: Bucky said something important. Maybe I just I'm wrong that day. 241 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: Maybe I was having a bad day. I'm a firm believer, 242 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: so I try to wait until I get as much tape. 243 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,319 Speaker 1: This is why I don't get my start until November, 244 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: because I want as much tape as I can get 245 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: so I can really get through a players, you know, 246 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: um best opponents, and because what I don't like and 247 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 1: what can happen is we get confirmation by us, right, 248 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: so we we see it with a we see a 249 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: guy with a positive filter. We see some plays we like, 250 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, that's all we're looking for 251 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: is the good stuff. Or you see something that you 252 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: don't like and then you just have a negative filter 253 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: the entire day, and sometimes it is just a day, 254 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: like you just have a bad day where you just 255 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: there was a couple of plays that turned you off 256 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: to a player, and then your entire lens is kind 257 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: of a cloudy, negative lens and you're not seeing what 258 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: a player can do. You just are seeing the areas 259 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 1: that you already saw and you're looking for confirmation by 260 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: so that can happen too. That's why I think some 261 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: teams miss or hit. I've gone back and you know, 262 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: I've had somewhere I had it exactly right. There's some 263 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: teams that had it way way wrong, and I think, 264 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: how can man was our way off? I had? This 265 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,959 Speaker 1: guy is like undraftable and this team drafted him in 266 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: the fourth round? Am I that wrong? And then you know, 267 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: if I'm proven right on that two or three years 268 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: later and the guy's cut, you know, you look at 269 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: it and you say, with experience, you say, they may 270 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: have just it just may have been a freight train 271 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: opinion where one or two guys got an opinion on 272 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: a guy based on a couple of plays, and it 273 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: turns into a freight train opinion in the media, you know, 274 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: in the meeting rooms and no one stands up to it. 275 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: And you know, that thing can happen on social media too, 276 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: where a narrative develops on social media about a player 277 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: and everyone the fan base is just believe that one 278 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 1: player is one kind of way, because I'm sure you've 279 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: looked at a player said wow, why is everyone acting 280 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: like this guy is either a a great player or 281 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,079 Speaker 1: not a good player? How on the why how are 282 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 1: they seeing that? And sometimes it's just a narrative develops 283 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 1: and that's what happens, but it's not it's not the true. Yeah, 284 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: it's one of those things. And Lance like, here's the 285 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: thing you talk about confirmation bias. I think it's really 286 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: important that when you go through the process of evaluating guys, 287 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: and for you, I would say it's probably even harder 288 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: to do because you have a volume, like your your 289 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: list is so big that it's hard to go through 290 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: and say, hey man, I'm gonna do a couple of 291 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: quick looks at yeah, I gotta get to a number. 292 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: So so for me, the way that I do it, 293 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: and this is full transparency and honesty when it comes 294 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: to like what I do now, which is TV scouting, 295 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: My job is to really know the top right, because 296 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: if you think about TV, uh, we think about we 297 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: have to get through the first three rounds, Day one, 298 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: Day two. Those are the first three rounds that we're 299 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: talking about. So my job is to know the top 300 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: one fifty like the back of my hand, because if 301 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: I know the top one fifty, would be fine on 302 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: that day, like I'm gonna be fine to be able 303 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: to handle it and talk about it, give a real 304 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: insightful opinion on the players that we're talking about on 305 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: the screen. Now that said, there's a personal thing for 306 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: me where I really want to know everything about those guys. 307 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: And so if I want to know everything about them, 308 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: if I really want to be able to not only 309 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: talk about how I view them as players, but what 310 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: teams would be great matchups, I need to figure out 311 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: how to go about looking at the tape the right way. Now, 312 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: when I was an area scout, the way that you 313 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: did is you always work, Um, you work from the 314 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: end of the season backwards, meaning that, uh, if I 315 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: go to a school at the end of November, I'm 316 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: gonna watch the three most recent games and I would 317 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: make my grade off of that. But part of the 318 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: reasons why you watch the three most recent games is 319 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: because in your area you may make two maybe three 320 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: trips into a school. So if I go into training camp, 321 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: I'm looking at the last three games from the previous year. 322 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: I go into the middle of the season, I'm watching 323 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: the three games that might be the middle of the 324 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: season to the early part of the season. If I 325 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: go in at the end of the year, it's the 326 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: games leading into either the season finale and those things. 327 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: And I make my reports three separate reports off of that, 328 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: or you add into it or whatever. And then when 329 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: it comes to the grade, the grade, when we talk 330 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: about grades, I think sometimes people mess this up because 331 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: people think you're you're grading for like the hearing now. 332 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: But what I want people to understand is the grade 333 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: that you assigned on the player approximates to how you 334 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: believe the player's career is going to play out, and 335 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: that approximates to a different round value. Meaning so it's 336 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: the first round player. My expectation is this guy is 337 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: going to be UH an immediate starter or look shortly 338 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: thereafter he gets into the league. He should be a 339 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 1: starting player, He should be a key contributor. He should 340 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: be a guy who UH particularly in the top ten. 341 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: We're talking about a guy that has the ability to 342 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: be a top five play in his position within the 343 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: first two to three years. And every works down from 344 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: that second round grade is because this is a guy 345 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: that I can see as a an eventual starter, Like 346 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 1: maybe he starts year one, but by year two, he 347 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: should be a starter right away. He should be immediate contributor, YadA, YadA, YadA. 348 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: Third round look, key contributor, eventual starter down the line, 349 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: has some developmental stuff that he has to work out 350 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: and whatever. And then fourth through seventh round. These are 351 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: guys that we view as developmental prospects. Their best football 352 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: is down the road. They have one or two key 353 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: traits that we love. We're banking on those traits that 354 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: will lead to success. To me, that's how the grading 355 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 1: thing goes. And so that's why sometimes it's hard when 356 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: we get into this mock draft world. Mock drafting is 357 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: completely different than scouting. Mock drafting you kind of playing 358 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: the numbers. It's more of an entertainment exercise than a 359 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: real scouting thing. Which is why now in radio, when 360 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: Lands gets called to come on the radio show, the 361 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: first thing they say is a man, your mock draft. 362 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: You have such and such sliding and I don't even 363 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: care about the mock draft, right, not real but right, 364 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 1: So then you have to give the disclaimer. Yeah, what up? Now? 365 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: Mock drafts are one thing, big boards are another. So 366 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: if you want my opinion, I'll give you my opinion 367 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: on the player. If you want like what I'm hearing 368 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,199 Speaker 1: and all this other stuff and connecting the dots, that 369 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 1: is another thing. Two different things, and I think that's 370 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: where it gets blended and convoluted because a mock draft 371 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: is not a true scouting report INSM. That's why I 372 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 1: think it's important, um DJ, we had a scouting we 373 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: had a grading scale for NFL dot Com when I 374 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: took over, was one Nolan Rocky was using, and maybe 375 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 1: it was used before him too, so and you know 376 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,439 Speaker 1: I used it and um for the first four years, 377 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 1: three or four years and so I've done eight drafts 378 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: now with NFL dot Com writ four thousand scouttering reports. 379 00:18:55,960 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 1: So um DJ introduced what was a league scouting, a 380 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: league grading scale. So the league grading scale he used 381 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: was either from Baltimore Cleveland, I think it was the 382 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: same one. I know the Buffalo Bills used the same one. 383 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: It's a it's a A fifty nine is a backup player, right. 384 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: A sixty one is like a third or fourth round 385 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: pick who is a good low end starter, but more 386 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: like a high end backup, you know, who could step 387 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: and be a starter, and they're typically fourth round picks. 388 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:27,919 Speaker 1: And then a sixty three would be like a second 389 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 1: rounder who could start within a couple of years. So 390 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: and then you go all the way up to seven. 391 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: Oh right, as seven old players a Pro Bowl caliber player, 392 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: and so there's a sixty seven. Now. I took DJ's 393 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: scouting you know, grading scale, and I eliminated some of 394 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: the very specific things because teams have very specific Okay, 395 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: this is a player who's missing this trade but as 396 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: a starter and he's you know, and I can't do 397 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: that for thirty two tents. A grading scale for thirty 398 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 1: two teams basically is what I'm doing. So I took 399 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: out some of the numbers, but what it does. It 400 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,040 Speaker 1: really helped me Bucky put things in perspective, and I 401 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,880 Speaker 1: was hoping it would do the same thing. Um Like, 402 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: if I had it my way, I would I would 403 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 1: spell out the grading scale a little bit more. I know, 404 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 1: the editors can't really do that on the on the 405 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,360 Speaker 1: NFL dot Com, but it really does help you get 406 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:17,439 Speaker 1: a better feel for um for where a player fits 407 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: in now on the on the scouting report, I will 408 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: also put at the very end, like the last couple 409 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: of weeks or last three weeks, I'll put round projection. 410 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 1: This is what I'm hearing from teams. It's not necessarily 411 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: where I would draft a guy or whatever. But if 412 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: I say, I may have a fifth round grade on 413 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: a guy, but I'm hearing he may go second third, 414 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,439 Speaker 1: so I'm putting second third. Like uh Tarik Woolin. I 415 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: thought he was going second third because a couple of 416 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 1: teams told me that kind of height, in that kind 417 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 1: of speed. The cornerback from u t s a um 418 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 1: six ft four and runs in the four twos. They said, look, 419 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,440 Speaker 1: I know he's not a real aggressive player, and he's 420 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: got this, that and the other. I know the tape 421 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 1: looks like a fifth rounder, but man, those guys typically 422 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 1: get rafted in the top one, so you better you 423 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: better slot them up there. So I slotted them up there, 424 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 1: but my grades stayed the same, and what happened was 425 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: he got drafted. Like to take shows, I mean sometimes 426 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 1: people will follow the tape and sometimes though overdraft guys 427 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: based on traits. But I think that like, how many 428 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 1: different grading scales did you have with the different teams 429 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: you had? So I was I was fairly lucky, like 430 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 1: most of the grading skills remained the same. It was 431 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: pretty standard. Um, when I went to Seattle, that was 432 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 1: my first job. It's probably the most impactful in terms 433 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 1: of like Snyder was there. Yeah, John Snyder brought me on. 434 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 1: John Snyder, Scott McLuhan, Scott Fitterer was in the room. Uh. 435 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: Eric Stokes, who was now high with the Washington commanders. 436 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: I always want to comb the commodores, but the commanders. Uh, 437 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: he was there trying to figure anybody else. Ted Thompson 438 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: was the VP. Mike Horan was the coach. Doesn't green Bay? Yeah, No, No, 439 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: it was in Seattle. Thompson was he was in Seattle. Yeah, 440 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: he's in Seattle. He was before you went to Green Bay. 441 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 1: So we were all so we were all together, and 442 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 1: so the the the carryover went from Seattle Green Bay 443 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 1: and Scott McClory went in San Francisco, so that it 444 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: was all there. And so we always operated under the 445 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,919 Speaker 1: same process. When you're an area scout, you stayed in 446 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 1: your area and didn't cross check. So by definition, when 447 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 1: people uh here cross check, cross check means that I'm 448 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 1: a scout in the West, I leave my area for 449 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks and maybe go scout guys in 450 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: the Midwest so that we can have a different viewpoint. 451 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,880 Speaker 1: Lance and I would exchange areas. So then you get 452 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: a couple of different eyes, a couple of different opinions 453 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 1: on the prospects, and you come back. Well to avoid 454 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: that in Seattle, what we did is you stayed in 455 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: your area. You would make it two or three trips. 456 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,640 Speaker 1: Then in January you would come up for about three 457 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,959 Speaker 1: weeks and we were watching every player that we had 458 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 1: given a draftable grade. We were watched them as a group, 459 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: and so Lance, we would always start with the offensive linemen. 460 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: We start with the offensive tackles. You were walking the room. 461 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 1: On the board, all the magnets would be an alphabetical order, 462 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,640 Speaker 1: so we would see Joe Anderson offensive tackle. We would 463 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 1: sit down, we were popping the tape. We watched three 464 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: games on the player, turn on the lights, have a discussion, 465 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: then talk about where to play them on the board. 466 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 1: So that's how I learned. So I learned that tape 467 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:25,880 Speaker 1: was everything, and you were protected in doing it that 468 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,639 Speaker 1: way because we all have strengths and weaknesses when it 469 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: comes to scouting. Right. So let's say that my week 470 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: spot is looking at offensive linement, which it was for 471 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 1: a long time because I just didn't know what exactly 472 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,880 Speaker 1: I was looking at, and so I had to talk 473 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: to the old line coaches, had to talk the different 474 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 1: people to what to look for. Well, if I'm not 475 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: a great offensive line coach or office line evaluator, but 476 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: there are other people in the room who are. My 477 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: job is given grade. So now as a group we 478 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 1: can see him. So it didn't put all that pressure 479 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: on me. So they weren't putting you under the microscope, 480 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,360 Speaker 1: even if they were in your in your area, even 481 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,640 Speaker 1: if they were in my area. And what I thought 482 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 1: was great is your grades were never revealed to the group. 483 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: Is different than it usually. Yeah, it's just different than 484 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: you've worked. I worked at other places where they would 485 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: reveal your great. Now, the reason why I would saying 486 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: I like that your great isn't revealed is because, like 487 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: we talked about, maybe I had a good day a 488 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: bad day or whatever. Well, now we just want to 489 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: get it right at the end of the day because 490 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,120 Speaker 1: at the end of the day he's the team's pick. 491 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 1: So I just want to make sure I do my 492 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: best for the team. And so we would have discussions. 493 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: And when you watch tape over in front of everybody, 494 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:42,400 Speaker 1: maybe there's something that you didn't see, good or bad. Man, 495 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: I didn't notice that because it's a live dialogue lands 496 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: you and I talking watching table. Hey Man, discover really moves, 497 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: he pops, he destines that, like, Man, I don't know. 498 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: You're looking at your report like god, man, did I admit, Yeah, 499 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,199 Speaker 1: I missed this, Or maybe it's a later set of 500 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: games where maybe he was h when you went through there, 501 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 1: maybe he wasn't playing as well. So all of those 502 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,400 Speaker 1: other things. And so to me, I think it made 503 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,439 Speaker 1: me a better scout because I got a chance to 504 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 1: not only see my area, but I got a chance 505 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: to see other areas because a first round of that 506 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 1: I may have given in the Mountain West was different 507 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: in the first round of playing in the SEC. And 508 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 1: so then you see the SEC first round of you're like, oh, yeah, 509 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 1: my guy's not that. Let me take that down a 510 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: little bit, so I can kind of have a scale. 511 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: And so now I think it helps me because when 512 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: I think about it, all, I tried to take those 513 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,239 Speaker 1: guys that I watched back then, the guys that are 514 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 1: playing in the league, the guys that somehow has success 515 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: in the league that came from the lord ranks. It 516 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: gives you a perspective life. He no, no, no, I 517 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: mean not like him. But remember this kid over here 518 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 1: from Abilene Christian He's played ten years in the league somehow, 519 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: so I'm not going to throw him away. So I 520 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: think it just makes you a better overall greater by 521 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 1: kind of having an open lens and figuring out a 522 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: way to evaluate guys for the league, even though you 523 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: may not like in person. That's so much great information 524 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: in there to to to take, and I hope people 525 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,919 Speaker 1: appreciate it. You know. Um, I think another thing that 526 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 1: we really have to you know, what I do is 527 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,919 Speaker 1: I sit and I sit in a room and I 528 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: watched tape on my little Xbox controller. The NFL vision 529 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,679 Speaker 1: system is great that they developed, Nick Stamma, Takas and 530 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 1: New York develop and that's how I watch my tape. 531 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: You know, It's crazy to me Bucky Is because that's 532 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: how I've spent all my time watching. It's actually harder 533 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,199 Speaker 1: for me to go in person. And part of that 534 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 1: is my A D D personality. For me to stay 535 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: focused on what I need to my eyes get going 536 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: all over the place. So when I go to the 537 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: Senior Bowl, I really have to train myself for East 538 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: West Shrine game. Um. Or even when I would go 539 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 1: scouting the first couple of years, they let me go 540 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 1: on the road to to go watch games like I 541 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 1: saw Deshaun Watson played Clemson, for example, and and I 542 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,360 Speaker 1: mean they played Florida State. I went to that Clemson 543 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,160 Speaker 1: Florida State game and he got baited into two interceptions, 544 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: and frankly, I put too much stock in him making 545 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: mistakes there um on those interceptions because I didn't put 546 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 1: enough stock in the plays that he's making. I I 547 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,679 Speaker 1: And so you learn, you know, every year you do this, 548 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: you learn a little something and you and you change 549 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: and maybe alter the way that you do things. But 550 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:23,159 Speaker 1: I think something that I have to say is I 551 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: don't go into the buildings like a scout would, so 552 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: I don't know how a guy works. I'm not talking 553 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: to strength coaches. I mean, I do. I try to 554 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: reach out to those now, but sometimes you get responses. 555 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: Sometimes you don't. Guys who are doing it for the league. 556 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: The thing that that the advantage they have is they 557 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 1: know which one of those guys are workers. They know 558 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: the guys that are frauds. They know the guys that 559 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,479 Speaker 1: had a personal issue or a family issue or an 560 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: injury they tried to play through. So they get proper 561 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: context um that that is hard for someone like me 562 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,400 Speaker 1: who's just or really anyone who's just from the outside 563 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 1: looking in. You can evaluate tape all you want it, 564 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: but unless you have proper context of of why certain 565 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 1: things are happening or what kind of person, uh, you know, 566 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 1: a competitor, someone is in practice in the weight room, 567 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: whatever the case may be, Are they willing to play 568 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: with pain? You guys who were going into the building, 569 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 1: and the scouts right now who going to the building, 570 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: They get that information and teams have that information. And 571 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: that's why sometimes you wonder, well why would this team 572 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,439 Speaker 1: pass on that guy? Well, they may know something about 573 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: that guy that they don't like and they don't think 574 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: fits their locker room, or they don't think he has 575 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 1: the competitive spirit, or they don't think he's a worker, 576 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:35,639 Speaker 1: you know, in the in the off season of the 577 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: weight room, but they don't think he's a self starter. Similarly, 578 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: you may say, why in the world would that team 579 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: draft that guy who doesn't have the production or whatever. Well, 580 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: maybe they firmly believe, based on their discussions that this 581 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 1: guy's going to be someone else. Danil Hunter is the 582 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: perfect example. I talked to Thomas McGahee Team Mac Team 583 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: Max Special Teams coach of the New York Giants right now. 584 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 1: Team Mac had been at l s U, is a 585 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: special teams coach, and I'm going over some L s 586 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: U guys with him. He was gone. He was either 587 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: in New York or Carolina at this time, but I 588 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,959 Speaker 1: wanted some insight on some some guy's eyes writing up 589 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: from LSU. He goes, and I said, what about Hunter. 590 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: He goes, let me tell you something, Lance, He said, 591 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: that's a cult. He's gonna become a stallion. He said, 592 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: on special teams he was just special. His speed, his aggressiveness, 593 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: his athletic ability. He said, don't worry about who he 594 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: is right now is a pass rusher, because he is 595 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: going to be special. And he was right, And you know, 596 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: I bumped them up because of the you know, because 597 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: of that background knowledge. But that's that's something too that 598 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: a lot of scouts will get that information and we'll 599 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: we'll talk to a coach on a team who will 600 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: give you the heads up that hey, something special is 601 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: coming with this guy. You know what else is great 602 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: about like that part the scouts kit Um, it's not 603 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: only being able to solve the coaches, but he's been 604 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: able to talk to other players. Um and like everyone 605 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: knows my relationship with like Nike and Elite leven going on, 606 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: He's seen these high school guys and stuff like that. 607 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 1: So years ago, I remember going to L s U 608 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: uh and I'm going to L s U and I 609 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: forgot the corner that we were looking at. But Jamal 610 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: Adams was a young guy. He might have been a 611 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: freshman and Jamal Adams was No, it wasn't It wasn't 612 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: your Davious. It wasn't Davious. It was younger. I think 613 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: he might have end up being drafted by the Atlanta Falcons, 614 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: maybe in the second round or whatever. And cos I 615 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: think his name was Jane something like that. Yeah, I remember, 616 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: I remember the guy. It was two Yeah, and and 617 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: and I just remember I just remember talking to Jamal 618 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: and Jamal and I had a relationship because at the 619 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: opening or whatever, he was on my team and I 620 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 1: so I just remember talking to him being like, could 621 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: he rock with us? Jamal? Could he rock with us? 622 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 1: If this was the huddle? Could he get in the 623 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: huddle with us? And he would give me the answer 624 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. And so for me, that is 625 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: the perspective that I'm always looking for. I want to 626 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: talk to players, and I want to talk to guys 627 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: about their teammates. And you tell me, hey, man, what 628 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: is this guy like in the huddle? Because we always 629 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: talk about man game, recognized his game. When it comes 630 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: to that, the relationships that you build as a scout 631 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: have to extend beyond the coaches that you're talking to. 632 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: It has to go to the players because my job 633 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: is to know everybody on that roster eventually. So what 634 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: you want to do is befriend some of those young 635 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: guys early. What our freshman? What's our phenome? Because you 636 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: know you know who they are. You start talking to 637 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: him and Lance. As you develop that relationship, they let 638 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,959 Speaker 1: you know who the real guys are. They let you 639 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: know who the real leader is. Everyone that went into Georgia, 640 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 1: everybody talked about Nakobe Dean and the leadership. Hey, man, 641 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 1: say what you want to he's a smaller guy, this 642 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: and that, but he is the point on the sword. 643 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 1: He is the unquestioned leader on the squad. And what 644 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: and what you do is you take that back to 645 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 1: thems like, Hey, I hear y'all saying all this about 646 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: he's too small or whatever. But when I walk in 647 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: the building, everybody in the build and said, he's the guy. 648 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: Take that for what it is. And I think that 649 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: kind of insight enables you to go hard and strong 650 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: on guys when it comes to your opinion. That's why 651 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: this is such a That's why this is such a 652 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: nuanced discussion about evaluation because you know, um, there's so 653 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: much that goes into it. There's the medical components, there's 654 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: the psychological components. I had a great conversation with a 655 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 1: a guy for a team who handles the psychological stuff, 656 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 1: and we talked about I said, you know his whole point. 657 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 1: I said, I bet you love military guys. I bet 658 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 1: you love people who come from military families, and especially 659 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: both the mom and dad came from a military family, 660 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: if you have a two parent household, and he said, 661 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: believe it or not, that's not always great. He said, 662 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 1: a lot of times they've had discipline imposed on them 663 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: and they live inside the structure, but they didn't self 664 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 1: develop their own structure. And so some of those guys 665 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: that you think would be the most disciplined structure, yes, 666 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: some of them are, but some of them they've just 667 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: they can't wait to get out from under all that 668 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: discipline that's been imposed on him. And he said similarly, Um, 669 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: you know, you you have some guys who come from 670 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: really rough backgrounds, you know, really bad. You may have 671 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: a family member who's in jail, You may have a 672 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 1: brother who is in a gang, or whatever the case 673 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: may be. Um, he said, And there's a lot of 674 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 1: people who look at that at negative as a negative, 675 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: but when you really do your homework, what you find 676 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: is that a lot of these guys have learned to 677 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: not only coping mechanisms, but they've learned to overcome adversity, 678 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: very difficult personal adversities, and it actually benefits them because 679 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 1: they haven't had all the obstacles. Like now we talk 680 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: about Bucky, You and I are both dads, and we 681 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: see a generation of kids who really, frankly, a generation 682 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,719 Speaker 1: of parents who are trying to remove as many obstacles 683 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: as possible. Right, we want to make sure that you 684 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: don't have We're gonna make it as easy as possible. 685 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: We don't want you to have to to struggle and 686 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 1: have adversity. That's a mistake because it's learning that adversity. 687 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 1: Most teams would rather have a player who's been through 688 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: adversity and overcome adversity, because when the bullets are flying 689 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 1: in the fourth quarter and it's tough, and or you've 690 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 1: lost three in a row and you've got to write 691 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: the ship, you want guys in the building who have 692 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 1: been through adversity who understand what it looks like to 693 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,359 Speaker 1: overcome the guys who have never been through adversity. It's 694 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,480 Speaker 1: much easier. And this is in life, This is in 695 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 1: life in general, not just football. But it's much easier 696 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 1: when you haven't been through any adversity to just create 697 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 1: because you don't know how to do it. So it's 698 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,839 Speaker 1: funny how teams look at players versus how you might 699 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 1: expect them to because they don't they're not as they 700 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 1: don't have the same predisposition sometimes that that maybe the 701 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: general public has, and sometimes the public projects what they 702 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,359 Speaker 1: think a team will do. And all these teams don't 703 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,840 Speaker 1: do this. These teams deal with the wide variety of 704 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,359 Speaker 1: of players who come from a wide variety of backgrounds, 705 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: and Uh, I think the best teams don't hold the 706 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 1: backgrounds against the players. They want to know who the 707 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: person is and who the person will become, not only 708 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 1: psychologically but physically. Coach ability, toughness, competitive spirit. So much 709 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 1: goes into it. Man, yeah, there there, there's so much 710 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: to go into it. But you brought up some some 711 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: some great points because you talked about background, perspective, understanding 712 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 1: where they're coming from, who might be coming with them 713 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: to a new family, dynamics, the pressure and those things. 714 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:25,959 Speaker 1: How much did you have to learn that? But because 715 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: you had to be a p I. Right, you're a 716 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,919 Speaker 1: private investigator. When you're a scout in a right, Yeah, 717 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: you gotta dig down deep, like and people don't understand this. 718 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 1: When I talked to UH, talk to young prospects, and man, 719 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: you better understand that everything that you do from high 720 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 1: school law and I'm on it, I am on. I'm 721 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,759 Speaker 1: gonna call your high school coach. I may come through there. 722 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,799 Speaker 1: Depending on the level of transgression that you might have 723 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 1: as an adolescent, I might have to go through there 724 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,919 Speaker 1: and talk to you. Gotdance counsel, you coach people around 725 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 1: the building and all that. Um, we're trying to get 726 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 1: a full breakdown on who you are as a player. 727 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,320 Speaker 1: And one of my favorite ings, like I tell the 728 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 1: story all the time, but if I'm going to your 729 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: town to see you at let's just say you're at 730 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: University Wyoming. Well, I'm gonna go to Larry and I'm 731 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: not only going to go to your school, but I'm 732 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: gonna go to a little local spot, the restaurant, little pub. 733 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,320 Speaker 1: I'm gonna kind of pop in there and kind of see, like, 734 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 1: hey man, you know player X, Y and Z and 735 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 1: you know lands. Unfortunately for the street, some of these 736 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 1: guys the streets will talk streets. Streets talk the streets 737 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 1: to give you nice information depending upon how you interacted 738 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 1: with certain folks and so, um, you want all of 739 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: that information. And you talked about adversity and people coming 740 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: from tough circumstances and stuff. Uh, sometimes I feel like, 741 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: you know, on our side, on the media side, when 742 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 1: it comes to these players like, there's always a lot 743 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 1: of conversation about character and character issues and concerns and 744 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:57,760 Speaker 1: those things. And ultimately every team we're like a plus characters, 745 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: guys that are perceived to be choir boys and those things. 746 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 1: But what happens is as you're around the league and 747 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 1: as you're with teams, man guys come through from bad stuff. 748 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,359 Speaker 1: I can't tell you the stories that I've heard about 749 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,800 Speaker 1: the backgrounds that people come from, what they've had to endure. 750 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 1: People who have seen and been exposed to stuff that 751 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 1: they never really should be exposed to at young ages, 752 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 1: but they made it through on the other side, and 753 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,280 Speaker 1: so you have that part of it, and so there's 754 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,800 Speaker 1: a respect for people that have gone through those things. 755 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,400 Speaker 1: I think the people that sometimes get smeared and smudged 756 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 1: in this are the guys who do come from what 757 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:36,320 Speaker 1: I would call real solid background situations, highly educated, found 758 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,280 Speaker 1: a way to like where they're articulate and well spoken 759 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 1: in those things. Sometimes they don't fit the stereotypical box 760 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,359 Speaker 1: in terms of how we expect players to be. And 761 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:51,800 Speaker 1: this is why I believe in meeting rooms, in scouting rooms, 762 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 1: that's why you want diverse perspectives and when people think 763 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,759 Speaker 1: about diversity, they're gonna actually think that I'm talking about 764 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,080 Speaker 1: racial diversity or whatever, and I'm not talking about that. 765 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 1: Like you and I can click and we get down 766 00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:06,319 Speaker 1: because we have backgrounds that lead us to a commonplace. 767 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 1: We've experienced stuff. You want people from different backgrounds in 768 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 1: the room so that someone may get that story that 769 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 1: the guy is telling the Scout Lands. Based on your 770 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 1: experiences coming up son of a coach where you grew up, 771 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,279 Speaker 1: it may resonate with you. We're in the meeting room. 772 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: You may be like, hold on, guys, look, here's what 773 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: you gotta understand. When a kid comes from age town 774 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,120 Speaker 1: and he's been involved in this, this is the dynamic 775 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: that you need to know. So no, it may be 776 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,600 Speaker 1: it looks like it's this way, but what I'm telling 777 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 1: you it is just because he comes from those wards, 778 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily mean that he's a bad kid. Man. 779 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 1: I'm telling you. You you make a point. So I'll 780 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 1: just put it out there publicly. Right now, here's what 781 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,240 Speaker 1: I heard, what I heard from a from a scout 782 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,799 Speaker 1: and and I'm really so what I so I will 783 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,920 Speaker 1: lean on things that happen in buildings and opinions about 784 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:00,800 Speaker 1: what's going on in buildings because I don't have access 785 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 1: to it. I'll make phone calls whatever. And here's a 786 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:07,279 Speaker 1: mistake I made on Justin Herbert. Justin Herbert, now from 787 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 1: the football standpoint and evaluation, At first I gave him 788 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,279 Speaker 1: a sixty seven. Then I backed him down to the 789 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: sixty seven is like a uh, it's it's gonna be 790 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,319 Speaker 1: like a top ten to top twelve grade a lot 791 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: of times, sometimes top eight top like this year that 792 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,400 Speaker 1: would have been like a top five grade, and um 793 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,879 Speaker 1: because of the flashes. But then I'm like, man, let 794 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 1: me back him down a little bit. And so I 795 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,400 Speaker 1: didn't grade the flashes. I graded the tape, which included 796 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,399 Speaker 1: three his last three games where he didn't really throw 797 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 1: the ball that well. But what really got in my head, 798 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 1: and I let it, I let it affect me too much, 799 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 1: was I had someone who really believed that because he 800 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 1: was um, um, Eugene Oregon kid, right, Eugene, Oregon High School, 801 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 1: Eugene what. He never went and played in the elite, 802 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,440 Speaker 1: none of this, none of that stuff. So he's so 803 00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:58,839 Speaker 1: the idea was he's just and he wasn't a big 804 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,719 Speaker 1: vocal leader people would working would tell you he's not allowed. Guy. 805 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,239 Speaker 1: He's not in your face guy. So I'm like, hey, 806 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,960 Speaker 1: you you take you try to put the psychological profile together. 807 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,359 Speaker 1: He's never been with the locker room like this. He's 808 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 1: never been. He's from Eugene in high school. He's from 809 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,440 Speaker 1: Eugene and college boy, these locker rooms are gonna eat 810 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 1: him up. And I bought no problem first year, no 811 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: problem the second year. If he's gonna have problems, I'm 812 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,120 Speaker 1: waiting for him to show up because they haven't showed 813 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,320 Speaker 1: up yet. Yeah, And I think I think for everything 814 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,120 Speaker 1: like that, like Lance, I think with with Herbert, part 815 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:33,759 Speaker 1: of it is because I'm on the West Coast. Part 816 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,240 Speaker 1: of it, I've seen it. I like that he played 817 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,839 Speaker 1: at three sports. But then who's to say if he 818 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,720 Speaker 1: doesn't end up on the West Coast that he becomes 819 00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,320 Speaker 1: the same player because he ends up in a place 820 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,359 Speaker 1: in l A. But really he's in Orange County where 821 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 1: he can kind of blend and he doesn't have to 822 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,839 Speaker 1: be like the big star, like because even out here 823 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 1: in l A, like they talk about him, but it's 824 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:58,279 Speaker 1: not like they celebrate him like he's like, they don't 825 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,479 Speaker 1: put him up there like he's Hollywood. Would be different 826 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,840 Speaker 1: if he was in New York and he has to 827 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,440 Speaker 1: be the face of it. He can kind of disappear. 828 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,520 Speaker 1: But you're right, like, and that's all. It's all perspective, 829 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,839 Speaker 1: and what it does is that experience with Herbert, we'll 830 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,000 Speaker 1: help you with the next guy. You know, to help 831 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,720 Speaker 1: you with the next guy, because you're every evolving and whatever. 832 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,240 Speaker 1: I will say this because it's funny that you said it. Um, Normally, 833 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:27,640 Speaker 1: your first opinion is the right one study long, study 834 00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,200 Speaker 1: wrong like. So that's why in the notes, Like normally 835 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:32,200 Speaker 1: when I when I make this and we wrapped up 836 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,880 Speaker 1: shortly after this, but in my notes when I'm writing 837 00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:38,680 Speaker 1: up a player, when I finished that session, I normally 838 00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:42,920 Speaker 1: just scribble a grade right in my notes whatever it is, 839 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,080 Speaker 1: a six, nine, seven, oh or whatever, because that's my 840 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,319 Speaker 1: initial opinion. And then I put it there as a 841 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:50,359 Speaker 1: reminder that a man. When we get away from this 842 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,279 Speaker 1: and I'm going through all this other stuff and I'm 843 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,839 Speaker 1: hearing the group think, and I got everybody in yeah, man, buck, 844 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,919 Speaker 1: that dude can't play. Whenever, go back to your notes. Man, 845 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,000 Speaker 1: I like this kid. Then when you go back to 846 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:02,920 Speaker 1: your notes and you see that great. They go back 847 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 1: and watch those same games that you watched to see 848 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,319 Speaker 1: if you see the same stuff that you wrote down. No, dude, 849 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,160 Speaker 1: I'm I'm on it. Yep. I'll live with this one. 850 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,600 Speaker 1: You're so right about that, and I'll and I'll be okay, 851 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 1: I'll stand on this because the one thing is you 852 00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 1: want to be able to stand on what you feel 853 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 1: like it is really your opinion, not what everyone else. 854 00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,759 Speaker 1: Don't scout with your ears, um. And that's true. And 855 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,279 Speaker 1: it's hard, and it's really hard to not have the 856 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,400 Speaker 1: outside stuff have an impact on you. It's really hard 857 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,920 Speaker 1: when it's over and over and over and you're sitting 858 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 1: I've been sitting on my grade since December. On a player, 859 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,400 Speaker 1: I'm like, man, did I see him wrong? And then 860 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,400 Speaker 1: I finally get a talk to some teams and I'm like, man, 861 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:52,640 Speaker 1: I had him right. I know I had him right wrong, 862 00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,680 Speaker 1: Like hey, but and see, like even in this business 863 00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,080 Speaker 1: right like with us right, it's me you at d J. 864 00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:03,160 Speaker 1: We all are talking and we're all there and it's 865 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:07,480 Speaker 1: this level of respect and we're respecting each other's opinion. 866 00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:09,960 Speaker 1: But then like sometimes like you're like, hey, man, he 867 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:14,080 Speaker 1: thinks this ain't my opinion like so, and it's that 868 00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,200 Speaker 1: that fine way of being respectful, like, hey man, I 869 00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,160 Speaker 1: just don't see him like that. And then you give 870 00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,480 Speaker 1: your thing. And I think, obviously, if the bond is 871 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 1: tight enough, hey man, we can have disagreements when it 872 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,879 Speaker 1: comes to players, but not lose. He's not gonna tell 873 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,719 Speaker 1: you exactly what he thinks on any player that comes up. 874 00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:31,439 Speaker 1: He's so mad. He's still mad at me. He's still 875 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,960 Speaker 1: mad at me for giving me because like I said 876 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,759 Speaker 1: to me, short, he's smart. But that's still going mean, 877 00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 1: that's not just a bit for he still man. I 878 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:45,200 Speaker 1: told him, man, like I liked you look tiny for 879 00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,120 Speaker 1: my taste though, I like, like you know so well, 880 00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,560 Speaker 1: look man, look I feel like I owe you. I 881 00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:52,400 Speaker 1: feel like I owe you a hundred and fifty dollars 882 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:54,680 Speaker 1: because this was like a therapy session where I was 883 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:56,160 Speaker 1: on the couch, I was able to kind of lay 884 00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,719 Speaker 1: out all of my things about scouting, um, and it 885 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:03,000 Speaker 1: was and I appreciate you being transparent and sharing. Um. 886 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 1: We don't have to do it this again. Yea. DJ's 887 00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:07,920 Speaker 1: on vacation, so look, well we'll kind of figure out 888 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,240 Speaker 1: a way to continue to have these conversations. But guys, 889 00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,320 Speaker 1: thanks so much for tuning in the Movie six podcast. 890 00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,200 Speaker 1: We'll be back with you next week for a couple 891 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:17,200 Speaker 1: more episodes. Talk to you so