WEBVTT - Thirst, Part 1 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.280 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, the production of 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:14.239 My Heart Radio. Hey, you welcome to Stuff to Blow 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:17.680 your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:20.560 And today I wanted to start off with a short 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.079 reading of a few lines from the Odyssey that will 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:26.400 introduce the subject we're getting into for the next few episodes. 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:30.240 So this is from the Odyssey book eleven. I'm gonna 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:34.040 be reading from the Emily Wilson translation, But this is 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:38.360 a section of the story where Odysseus is describing the 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:42.200 horrors that he witnessed in Hades, and there are different 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:45.120 kinds of horrors, Like some of the horror of Hades 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:50.360 is just a kind of profound, depressing disappointment with when 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:53.559 he's confronted with the reality of how crappy it is 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:55.840 to be dead, you know that, Like he he tries 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:58.200 to talk to a Jax, and Ajax can't even really 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:01.680 say anything. But then there's this other section where he 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:06.560 starts seeing more Dante in Inferno, kind of horrors of 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:11.080 actual tortures, and so he sees King Minos, he sees 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:14.840 a Ryan, he sees Sisyphus famously, you know, in the 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:17.280 futile labor of pushing the boulder up a hill long 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:19.959 you see it rolled down again. But eventually he comes 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:23.959 to a figure called Tantalus. And then here's what Odysseus 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:28.240 says about Tantalus. I saw the pain of Tantalus in 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:32.240 water to his chin so parched, no way to drink. 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:35.440 When that old man bent down towards the water, it 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:39.000 was gone. Some god had dried it up. And at 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:43.600 his feet dark earth appeared. Tall leafy trees hung fruit 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:47.760 above his head, sweet figs and pomegranates and brightly shining 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:51.120 apples and ripe olives. But when he grasped them with 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:56.120 his hands, the wind hurled them away towards the shadowy clouds. Now. 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:58.720 When I look at the contraposition of the two tortures 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:01.200 of Tantalus, you got the And you know he always 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:03.160 wants to reach up to get the delicious fruit from 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:05.320 the tree, but the wind kicks up, it pulls it 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:07.440 out from his hands, and he can't ever get the food. 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:11.320 That's a that's a a torture in Tartarus by starvation, 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:14.440 which is not good. Obviously, starvation is very bad, and 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:19.120 it's probably more expressively phrase the second half of this, uh, 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:22.840 the situation, But it's actually the first half that fills 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:25.680 me with more horror when it talks about how he's 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:28.200 he's standing in water, so it's like, you know, he 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:31.560 feels it lapping around on his skin, but every time 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:33.600 he tries to kneel down to put his face to 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:36.639 it to get a drink, the water just is pulled away, 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:38.840 as if by a tide. The gods dry it up 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:41.800 away from his mouth, and he can't ever have a drink. 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:46.560 To me, that's the more terrifying half of this situation. Yeah, yeah, 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:51.000 I love the image of Tantalus. Is this um this 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:54.680 being that is uh, It's he's like he's suspended between 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:58.680 his desires, between his needs needs or desires, depending on 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:00.480 how you want to frame it here. Right, Well, I 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:03.639 guess this raises questions about the the biology of your 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:06.720 shade in Hades or Tartarus, Like does it actually need 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:09.000 to eat and drink and he can't get it or 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:11.960 is this just some kind of I don't know, psychological 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:15.880 need his soul has. It's not really biological. I guess yeah, 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:21.560 given what we we we believe about the underworld via 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:24.360 other myth cycles, I guess it's the idea that he 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:26.760 doesn't actually need the fruit or the water to live. 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:30.519 If you call this living, he's forever suspended in the 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:34.760 state of of on death and on life. Um, but 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:37.640 but wants to have the water, wants to have the fruit. 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:40.160 Maybe that's the kind of question you're not actually supposed 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:42.960 to bother thinking about this, like the annoying pedantic question 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:45.440 that Plato would bring up. Yeah, I mean well, speaking 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:50.520 of of philosophy, there is the concept of Burden's ass 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:56.040 named for fourteenth century French philosopher gen Burden. This one. 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:57.800 This is a basic idea that also pops up in 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:03.320 the works of Aristotle and al Gazali various other writers. 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:07.160 The more common thirst related version is if you have 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:10.240 a donkey that is both hungry and thirsty, and placed 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:13.119 the equal distance from both food and water, it will 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:16.760 remain immobile and die. Now, this may be apart from 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:20.240 the lesson that the the thought experiment is trying to produce, 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:23.480 But I think that's not necessarily true. I think there 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:27.200 might very well be biological priorities that would place access 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:31.040 to water above access to food. Yeah, it's it's one 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:35.120 of these paradoxes that maybe doesn't. You can't exactly recreate 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:37.760 it in reality and expect it to be quite as 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:42.520 a captivating but uh, abstractly it's it's kind of fascinating. 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:45.360 So as Aristotle put it, quote, a man being just 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:48.240 as hungry as thirsty, and placed in between food and 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:52.400 drink must necessarily remain where he is and starve to death. 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:54.960 So obviously that's not going to be the case. If 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:58.160 you're hungry and thirsty and the waiter brings you your 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:02.279 sandwich and your your cola at the same time, you're 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:04.720 not gonna die. You don't have to give the waiter 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:08.520 special instructions. You will. You work in restaurant industry, Joe. 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:10.840 This is not like they don't tell you this, right. 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:12.520 They don't say, look, don't put the drink in the 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:14.400 food in front of the customer at the same time, 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:16.920 or they will. They will just remain immobile and die. 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:20.479 It is actually broadly considered very important in restaurants to 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:22.880 get people their drinks before you get them their food. 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:25.200 If you bring them food before they get their drinks, 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:29.880 people will get very confused and upset. Well, and uh, 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:33.120 I know, I often hear you know when you're a 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:36.159 lot of times when you're hungry, you're actually thirsty, and therefore, 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:40.800 to avoid and prevent overeating, you want to make sure 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:42.839 you have plenty of liquids as well. So yeah, like, 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.720 if I'm going into a restaurant situation, I definitely want 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:48.280 my water first because I feel like I'm gonna I'm 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:52.240 gonna have a more balanced experience eating lunch or dinner there, 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:55.880 you'll certainly have a more pleasant experience. Though actually sorry, 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:58.719 I'm just introducing exceptions to every single thing we say 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:01.200 so far, but does come up in a paper that 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:03.320 I want to look at later. There is a concept 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:07.200 that's been documented widely in animal biology known as dehydration 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:11.880 and do standardrexia, which is essentially the idea that many 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:16.640 animals species, certainly humans and rodents, will naturally restrict their 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:20.400 own food intake in response to dehydration. Again, there are 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:23.680 some exceptions some animals like get their water entirely from 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:27.080 food and so forth. But but but typically, like if 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:30.160 you get rodents and and they're thirsty, they will eat 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:33.680 less at each meal you give them, not saying that's 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:36.320 a way to live your life, though, I mean better 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:39.360 to be hydrated. Well, you know, coming back to mythology 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:41.240 a bit. I thought we might mention just a few 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:44.520 other you know, bits of myth and folklore and legend 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:48.440 and so forth concerning thirst uh, because I feel like, 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:51.960 you know, we we have the sort of mythological echoes 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:55.800 of the basic biological reality, and maybe these can help 0:06:55.839 --> 0:07:00.680 and inform and shape our conversation as we move forward. Uh. 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:04.040 So there's one, uh particular story I was taken with 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:07.800 from from from ancient China. It's an ancient story dating 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:11.240 back at least as far as the shan Haijing. This 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:14.840 is the the Fabulous Book of Monsters that we we 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:17.000 did an episode, did a couple of episodes on I 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:22.320 think last year, and have recently or will be rerunning 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:25.760 those episodes very soon. The title is sometimes translated as 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:29.360 the Classic of the Mountains and Seas. Yeah. So there's 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:32.240 a lot of a lot of mythological beings and places 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:36.520 mentioned in the book. Um and Uh, and there's there 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:40.240 is this account of Kuafu. It's a it's a it's 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:43.240 a story that continues to be told today in modern China, 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.240 and there have been many versions of it um. According 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:51.320 to U Yang and and Turner in Chinese mythology, basically 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:55.280 what you have in Kuafu is this primordial giant with 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:59.040 two yellow snakes circling his ears and two more yellow 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:02.920 snakes in his hands ends and he's powerful, very powerful, certainly, 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:06.320 but he overestimates his own power, and depending on the 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:09.640 story and the exact telling, he either challenges the Sun 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.200 to a race, or he just wants to chase the 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:15.280 Sun's shadow and catch the Sun. I've also read a 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:18.080 version where he wants to prolong the day by catching 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:20.480 the sun, Like if I can just get my hands 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:22.160 on the Sun and then it can't move away, it 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:24.720 can't set, the day will never end. Oh that's a 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:28.360 good plan. Yeah, well, either way it works out. This 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:32.280 giant runs after the Sun, intending to catch it um, 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:35.080 but the Sun stays just ever out of his grasp. 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:39.240 And what happens, well, he grows ever thirstier, So eventually 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:40.760 he just has to stop for a second and he 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:43.800 drinks the yellow river Um. Then he stops and he 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:47.560 drinks drinks another river. But he's still so thirsty that 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:50.320 he heads for the Great Marsh to the north, but 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:53.520 on the way there he collapses. He dies of thirst. 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:57.240 And this is one of those stories that is often 0:08:57.320 --> 0:08:59.880 used to explain geography, so they are different. All these 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:02.920 details about what happens to his body once he falls, 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:06.000 what happens to his walking stick or his club once 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:09.040 it falls, what happens to the dirt from his sandals, 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:11.600 you know, they become foothills, that kind of thing. But 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:14.319 it's also a tale about just overreaching. And so the 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:18.120 idea of of this giant chasing the sun is the 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:20.839 idea that yeah, he's powerful, but he thinks he's more 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:22.679 powerful than he is, and it's going to get him 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:25.439 into trouble. Oh that's interesting because to bring it back 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:29.760 to Tantalus, I mean, it's somewhat different, but both stories 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:33.880 have the problem with the character is that they're in 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:38.920 some way brazen or overaudacious in their challenging of celestial 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:42.120 figures or gods. Because the While there are multiple stories 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:45.720 of what Tantalus did in order to deserve this punishment 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:49.199 in tartarus Um, but one of the most commonly received 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:52.840 stories is that Tantalus well, so it's often said that Tantalus, 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:55.480 like uh, shared a table with the god, so he 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:58.000 was a king, but he'd be invited up to Olympus 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:01.280 to to dine with Zeus and Apparently at some point 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:04.320 Tantalus was serving a banquet to the gods, and as 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:07.520 the main course, for some reason, he decided to kill 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:11.800 and serve his own son. So he liked, yeah, that's 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:15.400 that's that's a bad choice. So he yeah, he boils 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:18.760 his own son, serves his meat to the gods. Uh. 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:22.040 It's like this horrible samelier competition, like can you tell 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:24.760 this is my son you're eating? And the gods can 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:27.600 tell they are good semeliers, so they figure it out 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:31.600 and uh. And apparently cannibalism and the killing of ken 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:35.240 were considered among the worst taboos in ancient Greece. So 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:37.680 it's like a story of the guy doing like the worst, 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:41.800 most awful thing you can imagine in order to embarrass 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:45.160 or humiliate the gods, and the gods catch him doing it, 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:48.760 so they send him to this horrible punishment in the afterlife. 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:51.120 And so I do think it's kind of telling that 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:53.480 this is a guy who does like the worst thing 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:57.560 you could possibly imagine doing in in ancient Greek ideas, 0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:01.560 like that he commits the worst violence taboos, killing his 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:03.920 own son and trying to get the gods to commit 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:07.400 cannibalism and what what is the punishment for that. It's 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:13.840 eternal unsatiable hunger and thirst. Yeah, yeah, there's this there's 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:17.520 something about thirst, especially that it's just so it's so 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:20.080 primal and it's uh and it's this thing that can 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:24.679 just crescendo towards madness and of course death. Um so 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:28.600 we we we find numerous accounts where the gods become 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:33.680 involved with human thirst. Um. There's an interesting story in 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:37.560 Hindu traditions. This one appears in the Mahaparata. It's about 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:41.840 a desert dwelling sage by the name of Utanka Uh. 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:46.439 And Utanka uh is uh. There are various accounts of 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:48.560 you know, of what he got up to, but uh, 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:51.600 there's basically one of the key ideas here is that 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:55.120 he was witnessed to Krishna's universal form. So this is 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:58.200 the same universal form that shown to Argina during the 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:01.040 famous uh you know, now I am behme death encounter. 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:05.000 Oh yeah, okay. But with Utanka, he's given a special 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:09.280 divine boone. Uh. So he's told whenever he feels thirst, 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:14.400 his thirst will be quenched. Um. So. You also there's 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:17.760 this idea that he's followed by by rain clouds even 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:22.640 in the desert, and so sometimes uh, you'll see these 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:27.920 clouds in real life referred to as Utanka's clouds. Um, 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:31.400 so the clouds sent by the gods to follow him around. 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:36.120 And there's another story too that involves him him thirsting 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:39.440 and the thirst being quenched uh and but water being 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:43.280 sent to him via a member of a lesser cast, 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:47.200 a lower cast, and uh, and then he refuses. As 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:49.920 it turns out the water in question was going to 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:53.280 be uh, the potion of immortality, but he was not 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:56.120 ready to receive it spiritually because he was not willing 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:59.640 to accept it from this individual. Mm hmm. Coming back 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:03.200 to the earlier detail in this where Utanka has given 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:06.079 the boone that whenever he is thirsty, his thirst will 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:09.640 be quenched. I wonder what is the what is the 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:14.040 more specific imagination of that scenario, like that that water 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:17.400 will appear somehow for him to drink, or that there's 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.640 a kind of quinching without water, in which case it 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:24.160 kind of makes you think what is quinching because that 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:27.080 when I think of the feeling of quenching thirst, it 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:30.680 is specifically the feeling of like water filling your mouth 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:35.679 and going down your throat. Yeah, yeah, them, It's not 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:38.880 just the idea that we're going to suddenly feel magically. 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:41.120 I'll give across how would that happen? Right? You can't 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:42.839 just turn it off with a switch. Our our one 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:46.440 our primary means of alleviating thirst is to drink water. 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:49.880 And therefore, you know, it's hard to disconnect the too well. Actually, 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:51.400 one of the some of the studies I want to 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:53.120 talk about as we go on in the series have 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:56.320 to do with the what is the relationship between the 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.880 feeling of thirst quenching and the hydration of the body. 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:03.960 Not as direct as you might think. Now, another example 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:08.720 of supernatural thirst, and in this case also hunger. Um. 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:11.120 Of course, you have in various Eastern traditions you have 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:15.240 hungry ghosts, and the the ghaki are a type of 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:19.160 hungry ghost in the tradition of Japan, also described as 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:23.080 as always hungry and always thirsty, just monsters of torments. 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:26.680 So they have huge bellies, be steel heads, talons and 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:29.960 so forth, and their home is the barren wasteland realm 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:33.200 of Gakito, and they sometimes drag the dyeing to hell, 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:36.640 but they can be driven out through ceremonies. I think 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:40.040 that they also are often illustrated as having very narrow necks. 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:43.720 So it's like their hunger there is great, their belly 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:46.600 is great, their neck is narrow, like their their throat 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:49.720 is narrow. Their ability to quench uh, their their bodily 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:54.400 hunger and thirst is entirely insufficient. Of course, hungry ghosts 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:58.240 are are you know, widespread again in Eastern traditions. But 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.440 but I ran across an interesting tradition from pre Islamic 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:04.360 Arab culture that I had never heard of before that 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:07.640 I thought was really interesting, and it concerns owls. I 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:10.600 was reading Echoes of a Thirsty Owl by T. M. L. 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:14.120 Hammer and published in the Journal of Near Eastern Studies 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:18.640 from so the author here writes that there was an idea, 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:21.480 you know again in the pre Islamic Arab cultures, that 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:25.160 the soul of a bird was quote unquote spread out 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:27.680 through the body of a human being, and when the 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:32.560 human died, um the resulting bird circled the body and 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:36.120 cried out over the grave of the deceased. So the 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:38.680 and then in time this bird grows and it becomes 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:42.280 a savage and shrieking owl, and the owl, of course 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:46.200 haunts the places of death. Well, that almost makes me wonder. 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:49.240 I mean, I think about the spooky movie trope of 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.120 having an owl hooting in the darkness in the graveyard. 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:54.320 But I don't know. The more I think about that, 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.760 that's probably a coincidence. Well, I mean, owls are are 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:02.800 are are associated with with death and the supernatural throughout 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.440 various cultures. You know, because they're they're creatures of the night. 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:09.240 They fly so silently that it's almost like they're not 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:12.600 even there. Um, you know, they have those large eyes, 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:16.200 their their their head appears to have various kind of 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:20.960 humanoid qualities. Uh So, you know, I think there is 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:23.640 some connection there, maybe not not a direct connection, but 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:28.160 a connection via the the the widespread associations and various 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:31.480 cultures between the owl and the and the dead. Okay, 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:35.280 and also the various omens. You know, sometimes in different 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:39.280 cultures the owl is a is a dire omen to behold. Well, 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:41.200 I guess this would depend on the owl species. But 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:43.840 also their vocalizations have to play a role in in 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:46.960 spooky associations. Yeah, yeah, and I think and and also 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:49.040 I mean sometimes owls don't make a sound at all. Again, 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:52.080 either they're flying silently or they're just sitting there silently 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:56.400 just kind of watching and so uh maybe connected to 0:16:56.440 --> 0:17:00.000 that that that that it's also said that these owls 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:01.960 may also just sort of check in on sons and 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:06.440 grandsons to see what happens after they have died. Other 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:08.800 traditions say that the owl will return to the grave 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:12.520 once every century. And then there's this idea that in 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:15.720 the event that the deceased might seek vengeance for something 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:18.680 or another, the grave of the dead should be watered 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:22.959 to quote slake the thirst of the dead. Oh wow, yeah, now, 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:25.239 of course, and this we're probably getting into that. Uh 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:27.240 you know something we we hinted out already, the idea 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:30.520 that that thirst takes on so many different forms, and 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:32.760 the water that quenches the thirst, or the liquid the 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:34.760 quenches that thirst takes on so many different forms in 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:38.520 our traditions, like his thirst. Uh, thirst is of course 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:41.280 something we all feel. It's a you know, we all 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:45.440 need water. But depending on how it's written up, you 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:48.080 could you can describe thirst as a as a as 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:51.000 a need, or as a desire, as something that your 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:55.600 will has the ability to overcome or not overcome. Uh, 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:59.359 you know, thirst can be uh portrayed as something positive, 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:03.560 like the third, for knowledge, the thirst for for for 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:06.679 for God. But also thirst can be seen as like 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:11.080 the thirst for for wine, or for blood, or for vengeance. Well, yeah, exactly. 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:14.000 So I was also thinking about the abstract metaphors of 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:18.280 thirst that we use um and what it means to 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:21.199 to choose that word in particular, to to say that 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:24.520 you want something by saying that you thirst for it. So, 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:28.000 in the example of someone who has a thirst for vengeance, 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:31.760 how is that different from just wanting vengeance? To me? 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:35.680 At least in that case, thirst as a metaphor, as 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:40.159 a metaphor for want, implies a kind of irrational desperation 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:43.480 in the in the acquisition behavior is something that will 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:47.960 be sought without hindrance and without reason. Now, obviously that 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:51.679 wouldn't exactly apply to other metaphorical uses of thirst, like 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:55.600 you said, the thirst for knowledge. But again that that 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:58.199 word choice seems to me to imply something different than 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:02.520 somebody just saying somebody likes knowledge or seeks knowledge. It 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:06.639 suggests a kind of primal need. I guess, yeah, And 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:09.080 I guess you also have to factor in that, you know, 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:11.639 for a lot of us we live in in very 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:18.960 water rich environments, and water rich cultures and uh socioeconomic places. 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:22.600 So you know, we we we don't feel true thirst 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:25.120 for the most part, you know, we don't we don't 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:29.960 feel the thirst that is approaching madness and death, um 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:32.439 and the and and then again it comes down to, 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:34.160 like what is the person thirsting for? If you're talking 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:38.320 about somebody feeling a mighty thirst, but you're alluding to 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:41.680 their desire to have an alcoholic beverage, like that's that's 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:43.840 a slightly different thing that just talking about Oh well, 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:46.000 this is this is thirsty work that they're doing, and 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:47.879 you know, implying that they're just they're just building up 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:52.320 a natural uh need for a big draft of water 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:56.480 to satisfy their thirst. It seems when people use thirst 0:19:56.520 --> 0:20:00.399 to talk about alcohol, I always detect an air of 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.840 of irony and that, yeah, just like it's supposed to 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:05.600 be a little bit funny that you're using it that way, right, 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:09.040 because if you're truly thirsty, alcohol is not what you 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:13.280 should right now. Just to come back to the the 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:18.400 idea of these owls briefly, Apparently, some writings say that 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:21.640 the blood and the brain in the in the deceased 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:25.200 fused together after death to form the owl. Others would 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:28.119 say that it was born of one's bones and that 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:31.800 the owl would then erupt from the head, which I 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:37.639 think is a wonderful and horrifying supernatural uh picture. But 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:40.399 it was a reference in a number of different poems 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:44.760 um by a lot of pre Islamic Arab poets. The 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:49.119 Arabic poet Alan Bari wrote quote, and it is said 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:51.680 that man, when he has killed and his revenge is 0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:54.800 not taken, an owl comes out of his grave and 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:59.879 then continues screeching, quench me, quench me, continuing so until 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:03.760 his killer is killed. Whoa anyway that that article is 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:07.880 titled Echoes of a Thirsty Owl UM. If anyone's interested, 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:10.280 I recommend reading that. He also compared, you know, compares 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:13.760 it to various other traditions concerning the owl as some 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:16.560 sort of a supernatural being. He talks a little bit 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:20.360 about about the role of the owl and Greek mythology 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:29.480 and so forth. Than now, we we can't very well 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:32.679 cover a complete cultural history of human thirst here, but 0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:35.240 it is worth driving him. The thirst is an important 0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:39.879 aspect of history and civilization, UM, in in obvious ways 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:42.359 and maybe sometimes in less obvious ways. I was reading 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:47.040 a article in the Journal of European Archaeology by uh 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:51.359 Slavamil Venhical titled the Archaeology of Thirst, and in it 0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:55.320 the author points out that naturally, the human satisfaction of 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:58.560 thirst is an essential part of the human experience, and 0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:01.680 it's a but it's of course of great interest in archaeology. 0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:04.639 But a number of obstacles have to be overcome. So 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:07.639 first of all, you just have the volatile nature of liquids. 0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:11.600 You also have the scant chemical signatures to be found 0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:17.680 inside ancient drinking vessels um, also scarce paleo botanical analysis 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:22.679 of those residues. UM. They also mentioned quote the functionally 0:22:22.880 --> 0:22:26.520 unspecific nature of most vessels, which I thought was interesting, 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:31.440 reminding me of our our holiday discussion of leg shaped vessels. Yeah, 0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:34.000 it's a hard A lot of times people are like, 0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:36.359 I don't know what people would put in this leg. Yeah, 0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:38.840 Like we can assume they would put oil in it, 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:40.840 you know, but it depending on what the vessel is 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:43.600 and what the culture is, and how much additional information 0:22:43.680 --> 0:22:46.640 we have. We might just have to guess and be like, Okay, 0:22:46.720 --> 0:22:48.919 it seems like you might drink out of this, or 0:22:48.960 --> 0:22:51.199 you might just or maybe this is just restoring some 0:22:51.240 --> 0:22:53.520 sort of oil. On top of that, we often have 0:22:53.600 --> 0:22:58.879 scant iconographical information. Also, this is a big one, and 0:22:58.920 --> 0:23:02.119 this is this apply too far more than just drinking vessels. 0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:06.400 But if the vessel is organic in nature, we may 0:23:06.400 --> 0:23:10.840 not have any uh surviving examples of what it was. 0:23:11.920 --> 0:23:13.600 And on top of that, by and large we tend 0:23:13.680 --> 0:23:17.240 to focus on exceptional examples of drinking and storage vessels, 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:20.040 which of course limits study to a very slim part 0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:21.680 of a given culture. You know, so it's like a 0:23:21.760 --> 0:23:26.719 highly ornate decorative peace that you know, maybe is of 0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:30.080 the same shape and basic function is what people would 0:23:30.080 --> 0:23:34.240 have in general been using to drink water or store water, etcetera. 0:23:34.960 --> 0:23:37.960 But maybe not like maybe it is us. It's more 0:23:37.960 --> 0:23:42.199 about looking interesting as opposed to anything else. But the 0:23:42.320 --> 0:23:46.719 archaeology of thirst ends up encompassing some very ancient examples um, 0:23:46.760 --> 0:23:50.600 including things like neolithic wells. Um Water is the most 0:23:50.640 --> 0:23:53.679 basic means of meeting human thirst, and it's taken on 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:57.119 mundane and fantastic connotations at times. But on top of this, 0:23:57.200 --> 0:24:00.359 of course humans have come to drink SAPs, but ud 0:24:00.960 --> 0:24:04.359 of course various concoctions such as meat and wine and 0:24:04.440 --> 0:24:08.600 beer and more. But but I guess water, You know, 0:24:08.640 --> 0:24:12.280 water remains the big one obviously. And another idea worth 0:24:12.320 --> 0:24:14.320 mentioning in all of this that I was reading about, 0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:17.119 um is the idea that, okay, so human thirst is 0:24:17.160 --> 0:24:21.479 of course ubiquitous. Everybody is going to thirst. Everyone needs water. Um. 0:24:21.720 --> 0:24:26.160 And so if you look back um to to Jewish 0:24:26.280 --> 0:24:31.000 and Islamic traditions, you you find in both legal traditions 0:24:31.040 --> 0:24:34.280 this idea of the right of thirst um. The the 0:24:34.320 --> 0:24:38.640 idea being that like every every every human government by 0:24:38.640 --> 0:24:41.840 this law, has this right of thirst uh, to this 0:24:42.040 --> 0:24:45.560 right to water via their own thirst. And in Islamic law, 0:24:45.800 --> 0:24:49.240 apparently this extended to animals as well. Animals had the 0:24:49.359 --> 0:24:52.680 right of thirst, which gave them meant that they had 0:24:52.720 --> 0:24:56.000 a right to access water based on their thirst. But 0:24:56.000 --> 0:24:57.720 but it's also it's interesting how you know this sort 0:24:57.720 --> 0:25:02.119 of this this foreshadows a lot of our modern relationship 0:25:02.160 --> 0:25:04.879 with water. The idea that that the right to water 0:25:04.960 --> 0:25:08.919 is classified as a basic human right by the United Nations. UM. 0:25:08.960 --> 0:25:11.240 But of course, at the same time, uh, not everyone 0:25:11.320 --> 0:25:15.040 has equal access to to water and uh. And this 0:25:15.080 --> 0:25:17.080 is going to continue to be a problem moving forward, 0:25:17.320 --> 0:25:19.400 and of course you can't help, but then take all 0:25:19.440 --> 0:25:22.840 of that and relate it back to our metaphorical treatment 0:25:22.920 --> 0:25:26.320 of thirst. You know, how does the how does that change? 0:25:26.400 --> 0:25:28.920 You know, if you're if you're if you're talking about 0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:33.639 thirst in reference to you know, spiritual needs and um 0:25:34.119 --> 0:25:36.520 and you know thirst for knowledge, Like, how is that 0:25:36.560 --> 0:25:40.879 different if you're if you're expressing that, uh within a 0:25:40.960 --> 0:25:43.120 you know, in a place where there where water is plentiful, 0:25:43.440 --> 0:25:45.879 where a drinking water is plentiful, or a place where 0:25:46.840 --> 0:25:49.119 access is more limited. But I guess before we can 0:25:49.160 --> 0:25:51.520 answer any of these questions, we need to back up 0:25:51.600 --> 0:25:54.320 quite a bit and just talk about thirst as a 0:25:54.440 --> 0:25:58.040 biological reality. What is it and how does it work? Yeah? 0:25:58.119 --> 0:26:00.920 And so this was actually rather interesting to me because 0:26:01.520 --> 0:26:04.320 it turns out I I knew less about thirst than 0:26:04.560 --> 0:26:09.040 I realized. And uh and what we do know about 0:26:09.040 --> 0:26:11.560 thurst and what we don't know about thirst are both 0:26:11.720 --> 0:26:16.600 pretty interesting. Uh. So I was reading an article called 0:26:16.720 --> 0:26:20.159 just called Thirst that was published in Current Biology in 0:26:20.720 --> 0:26:25.920 sen by David E. Leeb, Christopher A. Zimmerman, and Zachary A. Night. 0:26:26.440 --> 0:26:29.199 And this article is essentially a summary of all the 0:26:29.280 --> 0:26:32.879 existing research on thirst. It was, as of the year sixteen, 0:26:33.800 --> 0:26:36.320 a sort of perfect primmer catching everybody up on what 0:26:36.359 --> 0:26:39.080 do we know about Thurst and what do we not know? Now, 0:26:39.119 --> 0:26:41.400 before we get into the meat of that discussion, I guess, 0:26:41.560 --> 0:26:45.320 uh to to just cover the very basics, uh, the 0:26:45.359 --> 0:26:47.719 first fact before we get into anything else. You are 0:26:47.760 --> 0:26:50.159 a water bag. That that is what we are. That 0:26:50.280 --> 0:26:51.959 is what all of us are. We we are not 0:26:52.040 --> 0:26:55.760 just simple water bags, but our bodies are essentially water 0:26:55.840 --> 0:27:00.000 bags over any other material description. All the animal life 0:27:00.080 --> 0:27:02.800 that currently lives on land evolved from creatures that used 0:27:02.840 --> 0:27:04.960 to live in the ocean, where you're surrounded by water 0:27:05.040 --> 0:27:07.840 all the time. And when we evolved to live on land, 0:27:07.880 --> 0:27:11.919 we had to create essentially bags that would contain water 0:27:12.040 --> 0:27:15.879 to take with us because all of the of the 0:27:15.960 --> 0:27:20.440 biological chemistry, the biochemistry of life takes place in water, 0:27:20.600 --> 0:27:24.159 in solutions of water, and so as water bags. Uh, 0:27:24.560 --> 0:27:27.320 you know, we we are complex autonomous water bags. But 0:27:27.440 --> 0:27:32.520 most of those complex autonomous activities actually require that there 0:27:32.560 --> 0:27:36.240 be a fairly precise amount of water in the bag 0:27:36.760 --> 0:27:42.879 and a fairly precise concentration of various substances things like sodium, 0:27:42.920 --> 0:27:47.400 for instance, that pretty precise amounts be dissolved in the 0:27:47.400 --> 0:27:51.280 water in the bag, and so various processes of life 0:27:51.400 --> 0:27:55.040 are constantly leading to water coming in and out of 0:27:55.080 --> 0:27:58.600 the bag. Uh. So there there are several common routes 0:27:58.640 --> 0:28:02.600 of water to be added to the bag. Were familiar 0:28:02.640 --> 0:28:04.959 with the most common of those, which is drinking fluid, 0:28:05.040 --> 0:28:08.560 drinking water or or fluids that are mainly water, or 0:28:08.600 --> 0:28:12.600 eating food with water content. And that the second one 0:28:12.640 --> 0:28:16.639 they're eating food with water content is less prominent for 0:28:16.720 --> 0:28:19.080 humans because you know, we typically drink a glass of 0:28:19.080 --> 0:28:22.359 water with food or between meals or whatever. But there 0:28:22.359 --> 0:28:25.720 are some animals that basically get almost all of their 0:28:25.760 --> 0:28:30.159 water from their food. Yeah. This includes certain desert species 0:28:30.200 --> 0:28:33.800 such as the kangaroo rat and the kangaroo mouse, which, 0:28:33.800 --> 0:28:38.040 of course, on the planet Iracus becomes the the the 0:28:38.040 --> 0:28:41.600 the mouse. Deep. Um, we also have things like the 0:28:41.640 --> 0:28:45.520 sand cat, the sand gazelle. Um, and uh, I know, 0:28:45.640 --> 0:28:48.720 just in my household, it also seems to include my cat, 0:28:49.360 --> 0:28:54.000 who does not seem to drink water at all anymore. Um. 0:28:54.160 --> 0:28:57.280 We we have to lean heavily on moist foods to 0:28:57.400 --> 0:29:01.120 get to get her her liquids, So feeding her wet food, 0:29:01.280 --> 0:29:03.760 adding a little bit of water like sneaking it into 0:29:03.760 --> 0:29:05.560 the wet food, and yet if we make the wet 0:29:05.640 --> 0:29:08.400 food too wet, she will say, no, it's too much 0:29:08.440 --> 0:29:11.040 like water, I will not have it, And then we 0:29:11.080 --> 0:29:13.600 put out water for We've tried the fountains, we've tried everything. 0:29:13.600 --> 0:29:16.280 The only thing she ever actually drank out of was 0:29:16.320 --> 0:29:17.960 a fish tank when we had a fish tank, and 0:29:17.960 --> 0:29:20.320 then she would not stop drinking out of the fish tank. 0:29:20.360 --> 0:29:22.880 But any other thing we've tried, she hasn't gone for. 0:29:23.480 --> 0:29:25.960 And so when she's had some issues before, it's like, 0:29:26.360 --> 0:29:30.640 you know, she's clearly dehydrated. In the past, we even 0:29:30.680 --> 0:29:33.440 had to had to use an i V to give 0:29:33.440 --> 0:29:35.400 her the water. So we we still have a whole 0:29:35.440 --> 0:29:37.400 bunch of bags of fluid around in case she has 0:29:37.440 --> 0:29:40.120 any any flare ups of her issues. But in terms 0:29:40.160 --> 0:29:44.000 of just like drinking straight water, she's not interested at all. Wow. Well, 0:29:44.040 --> 0:29:47.760 simultaneously that is kind of fascinating, but also I feel 0:29:47.800 --> 0:29:49.640 for her and I feel for you guys that that's 0:29:49.720 --> 0:29:52.640 very frustrating. Now we're weird. I mean, everybody seems to 0:29:52.640 --> 0:29:54.920 be at a comfortable level right now. She's she seems 0:29:54.920 --> 0:29:56.880 to be getting all the liquid she needs through her 0:29:57.360 --> 0:30:01.600 her meat paste. But but it's it's weird with cats, 0:30:01.600 --> 0:30:04.160 because yeah, I think some people have this experience with 0:30:04.160 --> 0:30:07.360 with cats where they really have to be tricked into 0:30:07.400 --> 0:30:10.160 drinking water, but others will just drink it on the 0:30:10.160 --> 0:30:13.520 fly out of toilets or dripping faucets and so forth. Right, 0:30:13.560 --> 0:30:16.360 So all of that is direct water acquisitions. Of course, 0:30:16.400 --> 0:30:19.000 you get water from drinking water. You get some smaller 0:30:19.040 --> 0:30:22.200 amount of water from eating food that contains water. But 0:30:22.280 --> 0:30:26.280 then apparently there's there's a secondary route for water acquisition 0:30:26.320 --> 0:30:30.840 by eating food through what's known as metabolic water, which 0:30:30.920 --> 0:30:37.600 is when your metabolism oxidizes various energy containing substances that 0:30:37.640 --> 0:30:41.320 you eat and produces water in the process. So some 0:30:41.400 --> 0:30:46.360 water is created at the molecular level by your metabolism, 0:30:46.400 --> 0:30:49.080 and there are some organisms that get a large amount 0:30:49.080 --> 0:30:52.680 of their their water content from metabolic water. Humans only 0:30:52.680 --> 0:30:55.960 get a very small amount from it. But yeah, I mean, 0:30:56.040 --> 0:30:59.200 I think like some desert dwelling organisms and some birds 0:30:59.240 --> 0:31:03.120 and stuff it get all or almost all of their 0:31:03.120 --> 0:31:07.840 water by by chemical reactions that happen inside their body 0:31:07.920 --> 0:31:10.440 after they eat food and turn parts of that food 0:31:10.480 --> 0:31:13.240 into water molecules. Now, one of the interesting things I 0:31:13.240 --> 0:31:16.080 was reading about some of these desert species um and 0:31:16.600 --> 0:31:19.240 at least with some of them. You know, if they're 0:31:19.240 --> 0:31:23.360 in a captivity and they are offered water, well, then 0:31:23.400 --> 0:31:26.040 when they they their thirst builds up, they will drink 0:31:26.080 --> 0:31:28.720 the water. So it's not it's not like everything. I 0:31:28.760 --> 0:31:31.720 don't want to imply that anything out there that gets 0:31:31.760 --> 0:31:33.440 most of its water through its meat is going to 0:31:33.520 --> 0:31:35.640 be like my cat and just refused to drink water. 0:31:35.720 --> 0:31:38.400 You know, she has her own issues going on. Yeah, 0:31:38.440 --> 0:31:40.840 I'm sure that varies by organism. Okay, but those are 0:31:40.840 --> 0:31:44.040 the routes in you've got directly through drinking and eating 0:31:44.080 --> 0:31:46.600 and then secondarily through metabolism. But then you've got a 0:31:46.680 --> 0:31:49.480 number of routes for water to be to be eliminated. 0:31:49.560 --> 0:31:52.400 So you've got urination of course, and then you've got 0:31:52.440 --> 0:31:57.160 lost through defecation. You've got evaporation through the lungs of people. 0:31:57.240 --> 0:32:00.160 Sometimes don't think about this, but you lose water when 0:32:00.160 --> 0:32:03.480 you exhale water. Vapor comes out of your mouth or 0:32:03.520 --> 0:32:06.360 out of your nose, and then there is also evaporative 0:32:06.400 --> 0:32:10.320 loss of water through the skins just through sweating, so uh, 0:32:10.360 --> 0:32:13.560 and then other other more minor things. I mean, obviously, 0:32:13.600 --> 0:32:16.720 some extremely tiny amount of water evaporates off of the 0:32:16.760 --> 0:32:19.280 liquid on the surface of your eyes and so forth. 0:32:19.360 --> 0:32:22.760 But but those are the big ones. The defication is 0:32:22.760 --> 0:32:26.720 worth mentioning, probably stressing again because I think most people 0:32:26.760 --> 0:32:28.840 are probably familiar with this. But obviously, if one is 0:32:28.840 --> 0:32:31.400 in a UH, is suffering from a condition that the 0:32:31.480 --> 0:32:35.480 results in you know, um um diarrhea or um, you knows, 0:32:35.640 --> 0:32:38.680 some sort of dysenterious situation, you end up losing more 0:32:38.920 --> 0:32:42.200 and more water through defecation, and therefore you have to 0:32:42.200 --> 0:32:44.720 make sure you're drinking more and more water to make 0:32:44.800 --> 0:32:48.200 up for that water loss. Also, just a reminder out 0:32:48.480 --> 0:32:51.320 anyone out there, a well fitted and well manufactured still 0:32:51.320 --> 0:32:55.080 suit will collect all of this as it leaves your body. UH. 0:32:55.400 --> 0:32:57.640 All the routes out will be covered, and you'll lose 0:32:57.720 --> 0:32:59.800 no more than a thimble's worth of water per day. 0:33:00.000 --> 0:33:02.760 We gotta stress well fitted though. You get the wrong 0:33:02.920 --> 0:33:04.760 still suit on there, you're gonna have all kinds of 0:33:04.800 --> 0:33:07.240 gaps and things not working right. That's right. You don't 0:33:07.240 --> 0:33:08.800 know how to work the straps, and you're not you 0:33:08.840 --> 0:33:11.800 don't have that forehead piece on correctly. It's just not 0:33:11.840 --> 0:33:21.720 gonna work um at at an optimal level than all right. Well, anyway, 0:33:21.760 --> 0:33:24.000 I want to come back to some of the findings 0:33:24.040 --> 0:33:27.440 that are summarized in that current biology paper by leave 0:33:27.520 --> 0:33:29.840 at all that I mentioned earlier. And again this is 0:33:29.840 --> 0:33:33.680 from so there will be more research that we get 0:33:33.720 --> 0:33:37.040 into from after that adds to some of these findings. 0:33:37.080 --> 0:33:38.760 But this is where we were when this when this 0:33:38.840 --> 0:33:41.680 good summary came out. So in the human body, the 0:33:41.880 --> 0:33:48.000 brain monitors the body's water content, and when certain thresholds 0:33:48.080 --> 0:33:52.600 are reached in the that information monitoring system, it motivates 0:33:52.640 --> 0:33:56.160 the body to drink fluids. Of course, it's not only 0:33:56.280 --> 0:33:59.720 the decrease of fluid volume in the body that makes 0:33:59.800 --> 0:34:02.360 us thirsty. One of the most important things to understand 0:34:02.400 --> 0:34:05.960 in the maintenance of the body's water content is the 0:34:06.000 --> 0:34:09.920 importance of something known as osmal reality. That's O s 0:34:10.120 --> 0:34:13.359 M O L A l I T Y. This is 0:34:13.400 --> 0:34:18.560 the concentration of various particles such as electrolytes like sodium, 0:34:19.040 --> 0:34:23.200 that are dissolved in the body's water content. And you'll 0:34:23.239 --> 0:34:26.879 you'll see this often described as blood osmo reality. It's 0:34:26.920 --> 0:34:30.960 basically functionally the same thing. The liquid part of our 0:34:31.000 --> 0:34:35.120 blood plasma is roughly water. So when people talk about 0:34:35.120 --> 0:34:38.080 blood osmo reality. They're talking about OSM reality of the 0:34:38.080 --> 0:34:42.960 body's water content. The brain is actually incredibly sensitive to 0:34:43.200 --> 0:34:47.400 changes in blood OSM reality. An increase in just one 0:34:47.560 --> 0:34:50.920 percent of of the blood OSM reality can cause an 0:34:50.960 --> 0:34:54.880 animal to feel thirst and the author's right quote. This sensation, 0:34:54.960 --> 0:34:58.080 in turn, is sufficient to orient and energize all of 0:34:58.080 --> 0:35:02.839 an animal's actions towards goal of finding and consuming water. Thus, 0:35:02.880 --> 0:35:05.040 the study of thirst is the study of how the 0:35:05.120 --> 0:35:10.160 brain performs this remarkable transformation, such that small changes in 0:35:10.200 --> 0:35:14.120 the composition of the blood become a potent and specific 0:35:14.280 --> 0:35:18.160 motivational drive. Uh And and the more I thought about that, 0:35:18.200 --> 0:35:21.759 the more interesting it became that essentially, just sort of 0:35:21.840 --> 0:35:26.080 eating a small amount of salt, for example, is enough 0:35:26.160 --> 0:35:31.080 to to motivate my brain to change all of my behavior. 0:35:31.880 --> 0:35:35.799 Because my osmolality goes up, the salt dissolved in my 0:35:35.840 --> 0:35:39.479 body's water content increases in order to balance that out, 0:35:39.560 --> 0:35:41.600 my body wants me to go get some more water 0:35:41.719 --> 0:35:44.640 to drink, and that I will interrupt whatever I'm doing 0:35:44.640 --> 0:35:46.520 to go do it. And we and we dind not 0:35:46.680 --> 0:35:49.359 even really think about this. We don't think, Oh, now 0:35:49.400 --> 0:35:51.400 my body has need of water, I must go get it. 0:35:51.400 --> 0:35:53.880 It's just like, it's just what you do. Yeah. Like, 0:35:54.000 --> 0:35:55.960 I mean right here, as we're recording, and I have 0:35:56.160 --> 0:35:58.279 a big thermis of water and I just end up 0:35:58.320 --> 0:36:00.839 casually sipping on it the whole time. Yeah. Same here. 0:36:00.840 --> 0:36:02.640 I always get a nice big glass of water before 0:36:02.640 --> 0:36:05.640 we start recording. But but the question would be, why 0:36:05.760 --> 0:36:08.920 are our bodies so sensitive to these tiny changes in 0:36:09.000 --> 0:36:13.120 osmo reality in the amount of of osmolites dissolved in 0:36:13.160 --> 0:36:17.040 the blood. Why would like a one percent increase in 0:36:17.120 --> 0:36:21.560 salt concentration really caused that much of a problem. Well, 0:36:21.640 --> 0:36:24.920 the authors offer some explanations. They say, first of all, 0:36:25.280 --> 0:36:27.319 you've got this thing in your body known as the 0:36:27.360 --> 0:36:34.000 electrochemical gradient. The cells in our bodies are selectively permeable 0:36:34.080 --> 0:36:39.240 to specific ions quote, resulting in an electrochemical gradient across 0:36:39.320 --> 0:36:44.759 the plasma membrane that is exploited for numerous cellular functions. 0:36:44.800 --> 0:36:48.160 So this means that there's a difference in the electrical 0:36:48.280 --> 0:36:52.240 charge and the concentration of various chemicals on opposite sides 0:36:52.320 --> 0:36:55.880 of the membrane that surrounds each of our cells. And 0:36:55.960 --> 0:36:58.719 the difference or the gradient here, the fact that it's 0:36:58.760 --> 0:37:02.040 different on each side of the membrane is what permits 0:37:02.120 --> 0:37:06.640 the transportation of ions across the membrane so that cells 0:37:06.719 --> 0:37:09.600 can do things, so that they can send and receive things. 0:37:09.640 --> 0:37:13.200 So if you change your blood osmolality, you say, increase 0:37:13.280 --> 0:37:16.719 the concentration of salt in the body's water content. You 0:37:16.840 --> 0:37:22.200 change this gradient, and you change the water contents inside cells, 0:37:22.360 --> 0:37:26.040 and you quote degrade normal cellular function. Now, I was 0:37:26.080 --> 0:37:28.200 trying to think of a rough analogy, and here's what 0:37:28.239 --> 0:37:30.360 I came up with. This may be very rough, but 0:37:30.400 --> 0:37:33.160 it's my best attempt. So when you change your blood 0:37:33.160 --> 0:37:37.000 osmolality away from its ideal, I would say your body 0:37:37.120 --> 0:37:40.840 sort of becomes like a city that starts having system 0:37:40.880 --> 0:37:46.799 wide problems opening and closing doors. Now, is the problems 0:37:46.840 --> 0:37:49.880 opening and closing doors of all kinds throughout a city 0:37:49.960 --> 0:37:54.640 get worse? Eventually this would just cause myriad diverse problems 0:37:54.680 --> 0:37:58.040 throughout the city, much like it would in your body. Well, 0:37:58.080 --> 0:38:00.160 that that just sounds like chaos. That just sounds like 0:38:00.160 --> 0:38:03.439 like all order is falling out out the window, right, 0:38:03.480 --> 0:38:07.319 And you can actually see that the visual representation of 0:38:07.320 --> 0:38:09.719 that chaos in a chart that the authors include in 0:38:09.760 --> 0:38:14.160 their paper, where it shows what the typical symptoms are 0:38:14.239 --> 0:38:18.320 as the blood osmolality goes too far above or below 0:38:18.480 --> 0:38:22.040 what it's supposed to be uh and uh. Basically on 0:38:22.080 --> 0:38:24.040 both sides, it's sort of a mirror image with a 0:38:24.040 --> 0:38:26.719 few differences. So you've got the normal range, but then 0:38:26.760 --> 0:38:31.799 you start getting away from it, you get things like irritability, lethargy, nausea, 0:38:32.320 --> 0:38:36.400 a taxia, trembling, hypothermia, and then in both cases you 0:38:36.520 --> 0:38:39.960 end up in the seizures and death territory. So yeah, 0:38:40.000 --> 0:38:42.560 so basically, you know, we have this this thin little 0:38:43.360 --> 0:38:47.840 realm of stability, and to either extreme it's just madness 0:38:47.840 --> 0:38:51.000 and death. Right, So the body has to very carefully 0:38:51.080 --> 0:38:54.640 keep that concentration of osmo lites in the right range, 0:38:54.840 --> 0:38:57.399 and if it gets off there there are it will 0:38:57.440 --> 0:39:01.040 take drastic measures to get it right again. But then 0:39:01.080 --> 0:39:03.680 the authors identify another major reason that the body has 0:39:03.760 --> 0:39:08.000 to keep fluid volume and osmalality at the right levels, 0:39:08.360 --> 0:39:10.800 which is blood pressure. You know, they say, your body 0:39:10.920 --> 0:39:14.440 uses blood to transport oxygen and other essential nutrients to 0:39:14.520 --> 0:39:16.560 all of its tissues. Everything of the body. It needs 0:39:16.600 --> 0:39:19.160 to get oxygen uh that you know, from the lungs 0:39:19.160 --> 0:39:22.479 in the heart, and the blood has to get there 0:39:22.560 --> 0:39:25.600 to do its work. If the volume of water in 0:39:25.640 --> 0:39:31.560 the body drops below ideal levels, blood volume actually decreases. 0:39:31.640 --> 0:39:35.640 There's not enough blood, which means the circulatory system has 0:39:35.680 --> 0:39:38.640 to work harder and harder to keep blood pressure up 0:39:38.680 --> 0:39:40.600 where it needs to be to get to all the 0:39:40.640 --> 0:39:43.800 parts of the body and deliver those nutrients. So, in 0:39:43.880 --> 0:39:47.600 addition to maintaining the right concentration of those dissolved things 0:39:47.600 --> 0:39:51.520 like sodium, you also just need to have enough water 0:39:51.680 --> 0:39:53.719 in your body to keep your blood pressure up to 0:39:53.760 --> 0:39:56.279 allow your heart to keep getting blood to all the 0:39:56.320 --> 0:39:58.160 parts of the body. It just it kind of comes 0:39:58.160 --> 0:39:59.600 back to what you said earlier about it. You know 0:39:59.640 --> 0:40:02.439 that we're there's water bags. We are creatures made out 0:40:02.440 --> 0:40:05.200 of water, and if we don't have enough water, we 0:40:05.239 --> 0:40:08.840 don't have enough of us. Right, Yeah, nothing nothing works 0:40:08.880 --> 0:40:12.040 without it anyway. The authors say that the bodies of 0:40:12.080 --> 0:40:16.080 animals have evolved to carefully preserve blood volume and blood 0:40:16.080 --> 0:40:18.879 OSM reality, and then they describe some of the main 0:40:19.000 --> 0:40:22.160 components of this system that we know about. So, first 0:40:22.160 --> 0:40:26.200 of all, there are neurons that monitor blood OSM reality 0:40:26.400 --> 0:40:30.160 and volume. You've got specially dedicated cells in the central 0:40:30.200 --> 0:40:33.799 nervous system, that pay attention to this stuff, and when 0:40:33.880 --> 0:40:37.399 they detect a problem, they quote trigger a coordinated set 0:40:37.440 --> 0:40:42.319 of autonomic, neuroendocrine, and behavioral responses that defend these parameters 0:40:42.360 --> 0:40:45.759 against change. So one of the main measures the body 0:40:45.800 --> 0:40:48.640 can take to defend against changes in OSM reality is 0:40:48.800 --> 0:40:53.480 modulating kidney function. So as osmolality increases, you get a 0:40:53.520 --> 0:40:57.640 surge of anti diuretic hormone, which makes the kidneys change 0:40:57.719 --> 0:41:01.479 tack to keep more water inside the body and make 0:41:01.520 --> 0:41:05.240 the urine more highly concentrated, make it less deluded with water. 0:41:05.800 --> 0:41:08.920 Of course, the kidneys can't do their job alone because 0:41:09.080 --> 0:41:11.840 they also have to do other things. In addition to that, 0:41:11.880 --> 0:41:15.160 they have to help purge the body of toxic substances 0:41:15.239 --> 0:41:18.000 and other kinds of waste, and of course some some 0:41:18.080 --> 0:41:22.120 water volume will necessarily be lost in that process. Also, 0:41:22.200 --> 0:41:25.040 the body loses water through these other means we mentioned 0:41:25.040 --> 0:41:28.040 a minute ago, sweating, breathing, and so forth, So eventually 0:41:28.080 --> 0:41:30.600 the body will be forced to consume new water to 0:41:30.680 --> 0:41:33.480 restore the balance and the volume of the blood plasma. 0:41:34.400 --> 0:41:37.720 So so that's the chemistry and the physiology, but eventually 0:41:37.800 --> 0:41:39.960 you have to get to behavior. At some point, the 0:41:39.960 --> 0:41:43.440 brain has to trigger behaviors to get new water. In 0:41:44.120 --> 0:41:47.960 so an animal thinks I need to drink water. Of course, 0:41:48.000 --> 0:41:50.839 this behavior can be costly there, you know, there are 0:41:50.880 --> 0:41:54.800 factors working against an animal's motivation to do it because 0:41:55.239 --> 0:41:58.799 it might involve spending energy finding and traveling to a 0:41:58.840 --> 0:42:02.399 water source. It might involve taking big risks. I mean, 0:42:02.440 --> 0:42:05.320 think of all the nature documentaries you've seen when predation 0:42:05.440 --> 0:42:08.640 happens at the water's edge, whether it's a crocodile jumping 0:42:08.640 --> 0:42:10.919 out of the water or a predator sneaking up while 0:42:10.920 --> 0:42:14.480 an animal is distracted by lapping up water. Yeah, and 0:42:14.480 --> 0:42:17.480 and some of those predators have been traditionally been human beings, 0:42:17.719 --> 0:42:21.799 oh totally. And of course drinking water just involves temporarily 0:42:22.120 --> 0:42:25.160 de prioritizing other important things, like you know, in the 0:42:25.239 --> 0:42:28.840 natural context, maybe forging for food or pursuing reproduction. But 0:42:28.920 --> 0:42:31.040 even think you know, it might force you to get 0:42:31.080 --> 0:42:34.960 up from gaming or whatever. Well, I mean, this is 0:42:35.040 --> 0:42:38.080 one of those areas again where like with humans, so 0:42:38.120 --> 0:42:40.399 many of us are are are fortunate that we never 0:42:40.440 --> 0:42:43.560 have to hunt for water. You know, the drinking water 0:42:43.719 --> 0:42:46.919 is readily available to us. We have all that we need. 0:42:47.480 --> 0:42:52.040 And likewise, through humanum civilization, we we tend to have 0:42:52.160 --> 0:42:56.760 the food situation knocked as well. Again, and and ideal circumstances, 0:42:56.920 --> 0:43:00.160 you're not going to have to spend um most to 0:43:00.239 --> 0:43:02.640 your day foraging for food, which is going to be 0:43:02.840 --> 0:43:06.239 the case with many different species of animals, you know, 0:43:06.280 --> 0:43:08.680 where most of the day is about just finding the food, 0:43:08.760 --> 0:43:10.640 eating the food, and of course there's no there's no 0:43:10.719 --> 0:43:12.759 room for anything else. And if you're having to hunt 0:43:12.760 --> 0:43:15.640 for extra water along the way, then you're that's getting 0:43:15.640 --> 0:43:19.360 in the way potentially of this this vital food hunt. Yeah, 0:43:19.640 --> 0:43:24.520 just as an aside, easy access to clean, drinkable running 0:43:24.520 --> 0:43:27.480 water is like might go to example of what's good 0:43:27.520 --> 0:43:29.680 about modern civilization. You know, there are a lot of 0:43:29.680 --> 0:43:32.200 people who kind of demonize modern civilization, and there are 0:43:32.200 --> 0:43:34.600 a lot of things about it not to like. But 0:43:34.600 --> 0:43:37.640 but easy access to clean water is like, that is 0:43:37.800 --> 0:43:41.319 the most unambiguous good thing I can think of, right, 0:43:41.360 --> 0:43:43.560 I mean to the to the to the extent that 0:43:43.600 --> 0:43:47.239 it's ridiculous in some in many cases you know where 0:43:47.280 --> 0:43:50.520 someone might ask, what what is this, what is this 0:43:50.600 --> 0:43:53.239 water in your toilet? Well, this is drinking water, the 0:43:53.480 --> 0:43:55.719 drinking water that comes into the house. He goes into 0:43:55.719 --> 0:43:57.920 the toilet, we just make sure that the water in 0:43:57.960 --> 0:44:02.120 there it's perfectly fresh and drinkable. Um, which I guess 0:44:02.239 --> 0:44:04.319 is good for the dogs and the cats. But um, 0:44:05.120 --> 0:44:07.720 you know certainly that I think you see these various 0:44:07.880 --> 0:44:10.799 you know, gray water models that certainly make a lot 0:44:10.880 --> 0:44:12.759 more sense, like why should the drinking water be the 0:44:12.840 --> 0:44:15.880 water in the toilet. Can't the water from the washing 0:44:16.000 --> 0:44:17.800 of my hands be the water in the toilet? Wouldn't 0:44:17.800 --> 0:44:21.080 that make more sense? Of course it requires more work, right, 0:44:21.160 --> 0:44:23.880 But to come back to the the the wild context, 0:44:23.960 --> 0:44:26.200 I mean, obviously there are all these things that would 0:44:26.239 --> 0:44:31.239 be factors pushing against your your acquisition of water when 0:44:31.320 --> 0:44:34.200 your body needs it. So of course what an animal 0:44:34.320 --> 0:44:38.920 needs is intrinsic motivation. Actually, they're demotivating factors that are 0:44:38.960 --> 0:44:43.000 just natural parts of the environment. So acquiring water needs 0:44:43.080 --> 0:44:47.240 its own intrinsic motivation, hence the motivating desire of thirst. 0:44:47.400 --> 0:44:51.040 It is a moment to moment drive to acquire water 0:44:51.239 --> 0:44:55.760 that's calibrated by the constantly updated feedback on blood volume 0:44:55.800 --> 0:44:58.680 and osmality, though there may also be some other interesting 0:44:59.480 --> 0:45:01.719 and more prizing inputs on it that will get to 0:45:01.840 --> 0:45:04.240 in a bit Now, the authors point out that thirst 0:45:04.320 --> 0:45:08.680 appears to have both positive and negative motivating mechanisms, and 0:45:08.760 --> 0:45:11.480 I think you can think about food, food and hunger 0:45:11.560 --> 0:45:15.240 as an analogy here, because there's something sort of along 0:45:15.280 --> 0:45:18.600 the same line. So you've got positive reinforcement of fluid 0:45:18.640 --> 0:45:22.680 drinking behavior by just making drinking water when you're thirsty 0:45:22.840 --> 0:45:25.279 feel really good. You know, when you're very thirsty, that 0:45:25.400 --> 0:45:29.120 glass of water, it's it's delicious, it's wonderful, it feels great. 0:45:29.640 --> 0:45:32.040 And then you've got the negative reinforcement side, which is 0:45:32.120 --> 0:45:35.440 that thirst is inherently unpleasant. It is experienced as a 0:45:35.560 --> 0:45:39.880 type of discomfort or pain that has to be alleviated 0:45:40.040 --> 0:45:43.480 by drinking fluid. So we all know from experience that 0:45:43.600 --> 0:45:45.840 these things are true, that you have this positive and 0:45:45.960 --> 0:45:49.960 negative reinforcement mechanism within the brain for thirst and the 0:45:50.040 --> 0:45:53.600 drinking of water. But what's very interesting is that, at 0:45:53.680 --> 0:45:57.200 least at the time of this paper, in how these 0:45:57.239 --> 0:46:00.360 two mechanisms of thirst are instantiated in the brain is 0:46:00.440 --> 0:46:04.720 still not fully understood. There are some major question marks remaining, 0:46:04.800 --> 0:46:06.799 and I think there are at least a few other 0:46:06.880 --> 0:46:09.480 studies that we can refer to in subsequent parts of 0:46:09.560 --> 0:46:13.440 the series about that where where some ideas have developed 0:46:13.520 --> 0:46:16.200 since then, but there's still a lot of questions out there, 0:46:16.880 --> 0:46:19.200 and this is This is one of the reasons that 0:46:19.239 --> 0:46:22.240 I thought it would be so interesting to pursue Thirst 0:46:22.719 --> 0:46:25.680 as a series on the show, because it's surprising that 0:46:25.840 --> 0:46:27.600 there are things we still don't know about it. It 0:46:27.680 --> 0:46:29.680 seems like one of those things that would be absolutely 0:46:29.800 --> 0:46:33.239 totally understood at this point. But but there's some great 0:46:33.280 --> 0:46:37.560 outlining questions about thirst and and uh, how we experience thirst, 0:46:37.960 --> 0:46:41.520 what are the neural pathways there, how is thirst sated? 0:46:41.600 --> 0:46:43.800 And so forth? So maybe we'll have to call it 0:46:43.920 --> 0:46:45.960 for this first part here. I know I'm only halfway 0:46:46.000 --> 0:46:48.400 through discussing this uh from repaper, but if we go 0:46:48.520 --> 0:46:50.760 on through the end of this one, this first episode 0:46:50.800 --> 0:46:52.800 is gonna be two hours long or something, So so 0:46:52.960 --> 0:46:54.919 maybe we should call it. What do you think, Rob? 0:46:55.280 --> 0:46:57.959 I think so, Yeah, I'm actually almost out of water 0:46:58.080 --> 0:47:00.799 here and I'm going to have to reef ill. But yeah, 0:47:00.800 --> 0:47:02.200 I'm excited to keep going with this. There are a 0:47:02.280 --> 0:47:05.320 number of little areas I'm hoping we'll get into the 0:47:05.400 --> 0:47:09.680 manipulation of thirst by other organisms the end and life 0:47:09.719 --> 0:47:13.040 forms the I want to get back to the taste 0:47:13.080 --> 0:47:16.200 of water. Uh, this is something that's always fascinated me. 0:47:16.560 --> 0:47:20.160 I mean, granted, water, the taste of of of water 0:47:20.239 --> 0:47:22.080 will change depending on where you're getting the water. But 0:47:22.160 --> 0:47:24.000 you'll sometimes hear people say, well, I don't like the 0:47:24.040 --> 0:47:26.959 taste of water, or we'll think of water as having 0:47:27.120 --> 0:47:30.200 no taste at all. Um. I actually found some some 0:47:30.480 --> 0:47:32.880 some some papers dealing with this topic a little bit, 0:47:33.000 --> 0:47:35.160 so I think they could be fun to discuss people 0:47:35.160 --> 0:47:37.239 who don't like the taste of water that is a 0:47:37.360 --> 0:47:43.120 telltale sign of vampireism. Just add some red food coloring 0:47:43.160 --> 0:47:45.279 to it. Then then you're you're like, oh, this is great, 0:47:45.360 --> 0:47:48.520 this is wonderful. Okay, well, all veins to drink from 0:47:48.640 --> 0:47:51.920 when we return, all right. Uh. In the meantime, if 0:47:51.960 --> 0:47:53.560 you want to check out other episodes of Stuff to 0:47:53.600 --> 0:47:55.279 Blow your Mind, you'll find them in the Stuff to 0:47:55.280 --> 0:47:57.920 Blow your Mind podcast feed wherever you get your podcast 0:47:58.040 --> 0:48:02.320 Core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursday is artifact episodes on Wednesdays, 0:48:02.360 --> 0:48:04.359 listener mail on Mondays, and on Fridays would do weird 0:48:04.400 --> 0:48:06.440 how cinema. That's our time to set aside most serious 0:48:06.480 --> 0:48:09.960 matters and just discuss a weird film Huge thanks as 0:48:09.960 --> 0:48:13.520 always to our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. 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