Speaker 1: Do you think the idea that love is enough can
Speaker 1: hold together a relationship.
Speaker 2: Relationships actually rarely end because of lack of love. They
Speaker 2: more commonly end because people don't feel seen, they feel misunderstood.
Speaker 2: They go into a state of learned helplessness where they
Speaker 2: don't see.
Speaker 3: Your way out.
Speaker 1: Today, everyone, we have Gillian Tareki on the podcast Gillian,
Speaker 1: you are a relationship coach, a teacher, a podcaster, a
Speaker 1: riisa and a speaker. Why do people accept abuse in relationships?
Speaker 3: Over and over again?
Speaker 2: I've never known a person who has been in a
Speaker 2: very unhealthy relationship and or an abusive relationship who also
Speaker 2: did not struggle to accept who they are and loved
Speaker 2: and loved themselves. Sometimes people stay in these relationships because
Speaker 2: they don't know the way out, but most times it
Speaker 2: means something needs to be looked at within. Why you
Speaker 2: tolerate that?
Speaker 1: And for a woman who wants to stop rebuilding her
Speaker 1: relationship with herself, do you have any specific practices on
Speaker 1: how they can start changing their perception of what they deserve?
Speaker 2: One of the hardest questions to answer for everyone is
Speaker 2: what do I want? What would make me feel more fulfilled?
Speaker 2: And by doing that you start to learn how to
Speaker 2: meet your own needs.
Speaker 1: I'm Radi Wkia and on my podcast A Really Good Cry,
Speaker 1: we embrace the messy and the beautiful, providing a space
Speaker 1: for raw, unfiltered conversations that celebrate vulnerability and allow you
Speaker 1: to tune in to learn, connect and find comfort.
Speaker 3: Together.
Speaker 1: Today, everyone, we have Jillian Tareki on the podcast. Gillian,
Speaker 1: you are a relationship coach, a teacher, a podcaster, a writer,
Speaker 1: and a speaker. And you've just told me that you're
Speaker 1: also a yoga teacher for the past what was it
Speaker 1: twenty five years?
Speaker 2: Well, I've been practicing yoga for the past twenty five
Speaker 2: years and I tard it for about eighteen years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, incredible.
Speaker 1: And you've been helping people for over twenty years to
Speaker 1: love themselves and others better through your experience in research
Speaker 1: and your new book It begins with you, The Nine
Speaker 1: Hard Truths about Love that will Change your life. It
Speaker 1: is so beautiful and it shares such a practical approach
Speaker 1: to achieving lasting self love and relationships. So thank you
Speaker 1: so much for being here, and I'm so excited to
Speaker 1: learn from you.
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much for having me. I been
Speaker 2: so looking forward to this conversation.
Speaker 1: I know I told you this as you walked in
Speaker 1: the door, but I need to say on camera because
Speaker 1: when I started reading your book, I read it within
Speaker 1: forty eight hours and I could not stop. Every single
Speaker 1: page I was highlighting. I was turning the folding the
Speaker 1: page over to remember to come back to it. And
Speaker 1: you know, it honestly gave me so many moments of
Speaker 1: reflection and things that I realized I hadn't noticed I
Speaker 1: kept with me throughout my life, and that had impacted
Speaker 1: so many different parts of my life without me even realizing.
Speaker 3: So thank you for that.
Speaker 1: I really needed those moments, and I think it's going
Speaker 1: to make me so much better as a partner and
Speaker 1: have better relationships even outside of even outside of my
Speaker 1: my relationship with my husband, with other people in my life.
Speaker 3: So thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, thank you. That's like music to my ears.
Speaker 1: Seriously, in this book, you go through nine core truths,
Speaker 1: and honestly, I would love to walk our way through
Speaker 1: them because I think they are so juicy each one
Speaker 1: and I have so many questions from them. Okay, you
Speaker 1: wrote in the first part that fulfilling relationship grounded in
Speaker 1: connection intimacy and trust starts from within and the truth
Speaker 1: one is it begins with you. So I would love
Speaker 1: to get your insight on this and just expand on
Speaker 1: it as much as you would like to do.
Speaker 2: When we look at all our relationships past and present,
Speaker 2: the common denominator is me and just the common denominators you.
Speaker 2: The common denominator is us. Not People misinterpret that or
Speaker 2: can misinterpret that as oh, well, then I guess I'm
Speaker 2: the problem. No, no, no, It just means you're the
Speaker 2: common denominator. It just means that all our relationships are
Speaker 2: a product of the choices that we make and the
Speaker 2: choices of how we show up every day. The choices
Speaker 2: and partner just choices, and there are choices that are
Speaker 2: very much informed by our conditioning, beliefs and whatnot, but
Speaker 2: they really are our choices, and that if we want
Speaker 2: to make a change in our life, and very specifically
Speaker 2: to this book, in our love lives, we have to
Speaker 2: be the change that we wish to see because we
Speaker 2: cannot change another person, and there's some circumstances that we
Speaker 2: just cannot change, but we can change something from within.
Speaker 2: And so I really wanted to write this and title
Speaker 2: the book, It begins with you, because I wanted people
Speaker 2: to feel empowered that if they wanted to make a change,
Speaker 2: it actually is possible. It's takes some work, there is
Speaker 2: some emotional labor involved. But life doesn't get better blaming
Speaker 2: mom or dad or history or anything like that. And
Speaker 2: it doesn't get better blaming ourselves. But it does get
Speaker 2: better saying Okay, how might I be standing in the
Speaker 2: way of what it is that I say that I
Speaker 2: really want.
Speaker 1: And if someone has this realization, because I think you know,
Speaker 1: you can go through so much of your life where
Speaker 1: you do get used to blaming other situations or other people,
Speaker 1: and that can become a narrative and it can become
Speaker 1: the place that we find safety, in the place that
Speaker 1: we find comfort because if it's not me, then I
Speaker 1: can't control it, which means I'm not in control of
Speaker 1: the pain that I'm feeling. It's just happening to me.
Speaker 1: But as soon as you start realizing that, oh, actually,
Speaker 1: if it begins with me, that means I have control
Speaker 1: of the things that pain me and the things that
Speaker 1: hurt me and the situations I go through. So for
Speaker 1: someone who just comes to this realization, they hear you
Speaker 1: just saying it. What are some of the first steps
Speaker 1: that people can do to start that process of creating
Speaker 1: a better life for themselves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean when it comes to relationships, Let's
Speaker 2: say you're single and you're dating, you can ask yourself, Okay,
Speaker 2: what are the type of people that I've been dating?
Speaker 2: Is there is there a pattern? Is there a pattern
Speaker 2: in the relationships that didn't work? Were they just randomly
Speaker 2: just didn't work or was there a pattern? What are
Speaker 2: my beliefs about love When I think about the world
Speaker 2: love and relationships or marriage or partnership. What are some
Speaker 2: of the first things that come to mind? If I
Speaker 2: date men and I'm craving to be intimate with a
Speaker 2: man emotionally like being a relationship with a man, is
Speaker 2: there a part of me that also hates men? And
Speaker 2: what is that all about? And I have to actually
Speaker 2: investigate that. If I date women and I say I
Speaker 2: love women, is there a part of me that doesn't
Speaker 2: trust them? So these are the things that we need
Speaker 2: to ask ourselves. And everyone is walking around, every single
Speaker 2: person is walking around with some internal conflict. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: so bringing that which is unconscious into our awareness saying okay, oh,
Speaker 2: this is what I have a conflict about or this
Speaker 2: is a belief that mom had that I have, or
Speaker 2: you know, I saw my mom being treated a certain way,
Speaker 2: and so this is what I've seen myself doing. And
Speaker 2: just being able to do that necessary self examination.
Speaker 1: It's almost just becoming conscious of your natural patents, because
Speaker 1: when you've been doing something for such a long time,
Speaker 1: that pattern can feel like normality, yes, and then suddenly
Speaker 1: when you tune in, you're like, wait, why do I
Speaker 1: believe in this and why do I think? Like for me,
Speaker 1: one of the things that I noticed when I started
Speaker 1: dating or even when I started dating Jay, was my
Speaker 1: vision of what a man should look like in the
Speaker 1: house was purely based on my dad. My dad does
Speaker 1: all the handyman work, so of course a man in
Speaker 1: the house.
Speaker 3: Like Jay should be able to do the hands.
Speaker 1: He's a screwdriver, and if something breaks, he should be
Speaker 1: able to fix it. And oh, my dad handles all
Speaker 1: the finances at home. So that's what I would expect
Speaker 1: Jay to do. And I realized that even though I
Speaker 1: appreciated that in my dad, that wasn't necessarily you know,
Speaker 1: That's all I knew of a husband was what I'd seen,
Speaker 1: and so Jay didn't know how to use a screwdriver
Speaker 1: when I met him, and like, he isn't the person
Speaker 1: that like saying handyman work, but I was because I'd
Speaker 1: learnt it from my dad. And so it's just interesting
Speaker 1: the patterns and the things that you incubate within you
Speaker 1: and you kind of put onto someone else before you
Speaker 1: even meet them, Like you create this whole view of
Speaker 1: what the person is based on your own experiences, and
Speaker 1: then it's kind of setting them up a failure because
Speaker 1: you're like, well, these are the boxes you have to
Speaker 1: fit into before I even know whether you have those
Speaker 1: skills or those abilities to do that. And I loved
Speaker 1: what you said about how do you feel when those
Speaker 1: when you hear those words, because I noticed I've started
Speaker 1: noticing that in myself, Like when you said, how do
Speaker 1: you feel when you think of the word marriage? Like
Speaker 1: what are the initial not even just the thoughts, but
Speaker 1: what feeling comes into your body?
Speaker 3: Do you cringe?
Speaker 1: Do you get scared? Do you feel excited? Like seeing
Speaker 1: what the narrative is in your mind and your reactions
Speaker 1: can be such a great depiction of whether it's an
Speaker 1: area you need to work on.
Speaker 2: Yes, one hundred percent And I love what you said
Speaker 2: about needing your future husband to kind of look, you know,
Speaker 2: look a certain way. And this is this is this
Speaker 2: is what we do, and this is we're skipping ahead.
Speaker 2: But there is a chapter on LUs does not Love.
Speaker 2: And what we tend to do is we have this ideal, right,
Speaker 2: and we project the health the unhealthiest relationships, or the
Speaker 2: relationships that start off really hot and heavy and then
Speaker 2: crash and burn, like you know, three months in or
Speaker 2: maybe six months in, people go and this is unconscious.
Speaker 2: They project their ideal onto the other person. It's the idealization, right,
Speaker 2: and then as soon as we start to get wind
Speaker 2: of the fact that the person is just a person
Speaker 2: with depth and nuance and flaws and shortcomings, that's when
Speaker 2: we're like, oh, we're like we all our expectations are
Speaker 2: sort of they cannot win. And then that's when we're like, oh,
Speaker 2: this must not be love, or something must be wrong
Speaker 2: or I'm just not into them. And so having that
Speaker 2: awareness of just like, okay, so this is what I
Speaker 2: was raised with, This is my projection of the ideal,
Speaker 2: but maybe this is actually not You know, how many
Speaker 2: people you think are missing out on a great relationship
Speaker 2: because they have too many rules about how it's supposed
Speaker 2: to look and feel and be versus is this is
Speaker 2: this actually someone who's good for me?
Speaker 1: And what have you seen off to having spoken to
Speaker 1: so many people and being in this world for a while,
Speaker 1: what would you say look like the biggest hurdles that
Speaker 1: people are having at the moment to actually getting into
Speaker 1: healthy relationships.
Speaker 2: Definitely their own stuff over having to overcome their own selfishness.
Speaker 2: You know, we have to sort of quote unquote normalize.
Speaker 2: We can all be selfish, right, especially when it comes
Speaker 2: to love. Because the thing is, there is nothing more
Speaker 2: than a romantic relationship that's going to trigger in us
Speaker 2: the fear of losing love. Yeah, so we don't want that,
Speaker 2: you know, a state. We want to secure relationship where
Speaker 2: we don't where you can go to sleep at night
Speaker 2: and everything. We're not worried about the relationship ending. But
Speaker 2: uncertainty is built into anything. We just don't know what's
Speaker 2: going to last, what's not going to last, what's going
Speaker 2: to happen in life? Right, So when we are triggered,
Speaker 2: and some people are so triggerable because they haven't dealt
Speaker 2: with the things that are triggering them, that we become
Speaker 2: when or pushed to the edge of our insecurity, we
Speaker 2: become obsessed with what we're not getting right, and we
Speaker 2: don't consider what we're not giving, and then people forget.
Speaker 3: It's unbelief.
Speaker 2: I know, people have been together for years and in
Speaker 2: many ways they're strangers to each other because they don't
Speaker 2: actually know what the other person needs.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: And so that's really what I see most in terms
Speaker 2: of what people kind of get wrong about love. That
Speaker 2: love is not is something that we receive, it's also
Speaker 2: something that we give.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting because I think that that stems a
Speaker 1: little bit from the idea of like a scarcity mindset
Speaker 1: where you're constantly thinking about.
Speaker 3: What can I get, what can I get? What can
Speaker 3: I get?
Speaker 1: And how can I keep this and how can I
Speaker 1: take this? And many of us operate from a scarcety mindset.
Speaker 1: And then that scarcety mindset isn't just in money, it's
Speaker 1: in the relationship. So it's more how can I receive
Speaker 1: versus what am I actually putting on the table? Like
Speaker 1: what am I bringing to this? Yes, And that then
Speaker 1: inten turns into oh I'm not receiving this or I'm
Speaker 1: the one that's the victim. In this, and I'm the
Speaker 1: one that's hurt in this because it's so much easier
Speaker 1: being the victim. It is like, it's so much easier
Speaker 1: being the victim than it is owning up to Oh
Speaker 1: my god, I have so much work to do, and
Speaker 1: I actually have a role to play in the demise
Speaker 1: of this relationship or in the issues that we're having, or.
Speaker 2: I have a role to play in the success of
Speaker 2: the relationship.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you wrote this in the book and I thought
Speaker 1: it was really beautifully put. Your life will change too
Speaker 1: when you realize that your relationship struggles are not because
Speaker 1: they all cheat, but because you keep ignoring red flags
Speaker 1: and choosing the cheaters. The problem isn't all the good
Speaker 1: ones are taken, it's that you keep choosing the unavailable ones.
Speaker 1: It's not that they didn't choose you. It's that you
Speaker 1: haven't chosen yourself. And it's not that they're avoidant. It's
Speaker 1: just that your anxiety may play a role too. The
Speaker 1: story you share about yourself at the beginning of your
Speaker 1: book is pretty heartbreaking, and I would love you if
Speaker 1: you want to mind sharing it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, not at all. Many years ago, I guess
Speaker 2: then now we're going back by thirteen fourteen years ago
Speaker 2: I met the man who had become my husband. He
Speaker 2: was in my class. I mean, what else are you
Speaker 2: going to do? And I always say that our relationship
Speaker 2: because we were before we got married, were together almost
Speaker 2: two years, and I always say that our relationship pre
Speaker 2: marriage was about ninety percent really good or great even,
Speaker 2: and ten percent really problematic. And you might say, well, what,
Speaker 2: that's a pretty good stat But the ten percent was
Speaker 2: so profound, so so so so profound that when we
Speaker 2: got married, the ten percent became the ninety percent, and
Speaker 2: the ninety percent became the ten percent. And so what
Speaker 2: I did is I ignored significant red flags. And I did
Speaker 2: that because I just wanted to be married. I loved him.
Speaker 2: The thought of losing him was too much. I just
Speaker 2: didn't have that real sense of self. And then when
Speaker 2: we got into the marriage, I didn't know how to
Speaker 2: speak the truth. I didn't know how to love at
Speaker 2: a level that I know how to love now, and
Speaker 2: I didn't know how to stand up for myself at
Speaker 2: a level that I do now. You know, he we
Speaker 2: were having troubles, but then we were in a good
Speaker 2: place and I was pregnant but did not know it
Speaker 2: or yeah, or it was very It was very very
Speaker 2: early on, and my mom had been diagnosed with lung
Speaker 2: cancer was dying. And on June second, twenty fourteen, I
Speaker 2: woke up to what was an early miscarriage, and he
Speaker 2: texted me later that day from work that he wasn't
Speaker 2: coming home, that he was going to go stay at
Speaker 2: his parents. So he literally it was like he fled.
Speaker 2: It was like totally fleeing, the most awful thing you
Speaker 2: can do to someone.
Speaker 3: And so that was you've been together.
Speaker 2: At this point we the Merit was exactly two years.
Speaker 2: Exactly two years it was the next day was our
Speaker 2: wedding anniversary. I entered a very significant dark night of
Speaker 2: the soul because my mom was dying, my husband left,
Speaker 2: and I had all these beliefs around, well, no one's
Speaker 2: going to want me now I'm too old or you know,
Speaker 2: all these things, and I'll have kids. My life didn't
Speaker 2: match what I thought life would be. In fact, it
Speaker 2: was so different, and I felt totally out of control
Speaker 2: and I suffered immensely until I became obsessed with what
Speaker 2: makes a relationship work.
Speaker 3: Obsessed.
Speaker 2: I could not believe that I was in this position
Speaker 2: so I took all that pain and I channeled it
Speaker 2: into learning, and I felt a calling to teach. This
Speaker 2: definitely not glamorous, really hard. I needed a lot of help,
Speaker 2: but I thankfully learned how to take something really painful
Speaker 2: and turn it into something very purposeful and.
Speaker 3: I of interest.
Speaker 1: And obviously you don't have to answer this, but you know,
Speaker 1: for many people who have been through really hurtful things
Speaker 1: with their past relationships or something like this happening to
Speaker 1: you that feels so traumatic and leave such an imprint
Speaker 1: in you, do you feel like the work that you've
Speaker 1: done has enabled you to actually feel like one you
Speaker 1: forgive the situation, and two that you don't actually feel
Speaker 1: the pain that came from.
Speaker 2: Great question, I don't feel the pain. So here's the
Speaker 2: interesting thing about human beings. I could take some time
Speaker 2: and really focus on it and not focus on it
Speaker 2: like this talking about I mean, like in the quietude
Speaker 2: of my own home and lay in bed and really
Speaker 2: focus on it, and a lot of emotions would probably
Speaker 2: probably come up, because that's what happens when you focus
Speaker 2: on it. One, I don't feel any compulsion to focus
Speaker 2: on it, and two yeah, no, I was able to
Speaker 2: write about it, and I can talk about it with
Speaker 2: no emotional charge. There's zero emotional charge A process that
Speaker 2: one hundred percent. But the good news is or and
Speaker 2: the good news is when I talk about it, I
Speaker 2: can say objectively, that was a terrible thing that happened.
Speaker 2: He did a terrible thing, But I don't feel angry.
Speaker 2: There's no emotion behind that. It's truly very objective.
Speaker 1: Well, it's so nice that it's possible for people because
Speaker 1: it is in the pain. I imagine at that time you
Speaker 1: probably had no idea how you would have gotten through it.
Speaker 2: Oh, I really did not know how I was going
Speaker 2: to survive. It was a very, very dark, ugly time
Speaker 2: in my life. But yes, you just have to process it.
Speaker 2: And part of processing it is examining the story. And
Speaker 2: in the beginning I had to tell I told the
Speaker 2: story of like, oh, you know, this was my story.
Speaker 2: But then you know, you have to make things mean
Speaker 2: something else, right, And that's part of how you get
Speaker 2: out of a catastrophe like that.
Speaker 1: That's a great way of putting it. You have to
Speaker 1: find a way to make it mean something else, because
Speaker 1: I think for many people when they're going through the
Speaker 1: thick of pain, especially in a relationship. It's like it's
Speaker 1: so much easier said than done. Like my heart's broken.
Speaker 1: I feel like I am broken. A whole part of
Speaker 1: me has left, And you know, it's it's so hard
Speaker 1: to create meaning from something that has ripped you apart.
Speaker 1: And so it's it's interesting when you have to make
Speaker 1: meaning separate meaning from it, because if you don't, then.
Speaker 3: It is just the pain it is.
Speaker 1: There has to be something else because otherwise there's no
Speaker 1: other explanation for it. Then it is just pain that
Speaker 1: you are supposed to feel, and it's supposed to feel horrible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And in the beginning, when you're going through that
Speaker 2: acute stage of it, the shock and all of that,
Speaker 2: it is just all emotions. But as you start to
Speaker 2: sort of like come out of that a little bit
Speaker 2: able to i don't know, like live more of like
Speaker 2: your life again, then it's time to re examine the
Speaker 2: story and make some and make it mean something else.
Speaker 2: That's why I feel so passionate about helping some people
Speaker 2: like post divorce or post breakup, like okay, think about
Speaker 2: like for a relationship. For most relationships that end, the
Speaker 2: time leading up to it was really hard. It's a
Speaker 2: lot of endless discussions about the relationship and anxiety, and
Speaker 2: it takes up so much energetic and mental space that
Speaker 2: so I try to help people. Okay, now you don't
Speaker 2: have to spend your energy on that. Let's see, like,
Speaker 2: do you need to find a greater sense of self? Now,
Speaker 2: let's help you find meaning and purpose in life. That
Speaker 2: so it's a little bit of a rebirth for you.
Speaker 1: Do you think man is people who have had a breakup.
Speaker 1: Do you think there is like an equation of how
Speaker 1: long you can spend wallowing when it's for you to
Speaker 1: just get up and get going.
Speaker 2: It's so hard to say because it's not linear. Yeah,
Speaker 2: certainly the first couple of months you can wallow.
Speaker 1: Said, it's like half the time of you give your
Speaker 1: saying half the time in the relationship.
Speaker 3: But I'm like, what if you're in a relationship for
Speaker 3: twenty five years?
Speaker 2: So that makes absolutely no sense. It makes absolutely no sense. Eventually,
Speaker 2: you just want to get to the stage where you
Speaker 2: know there's there's steps to healing. Like in the beginning,
Speaker 2: you're just like sometimes you're devastated, right, and so you
Speaker 2: can't even get out of bed, and then other times
Speaker 2: it's just like Okay, I can focus on work today,
Speaker 2: but maybe I like cry myself to sleep a little bit.
Speaker 2: But I was able to do stuff today. But I'll
Speaker 2: just never forget. As I was building this new life
Speaker 2: for myself, I definitely felt hurt because I was also
Speaker 2: mourning the loss of my mom. There was just so
Speaker 2: much and I'll never forget someone saying to me, you know,
Speaker 2: don't deny yourself the privilege of moving on. Those words
Speaker 2: really stuck with me. It's like, why would I do
Speaker 2: that to myself? Why would I deny myself that opportunity
Speaker 2: and privilege to actually move on with my life? And
Speaker 2: so letting go is a process. I'm definitely one of
Speaker 2: those people where it takes a little bit longer to
Speaker 2: let go. But I don't think that's good. I mean,
Speaker 2: I accept myself regardless, but I don't think it's great.
Speaker 2: I think that we have to really I want people
Speaker 2: to teach their children to say next Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the longer you end up sitting in it, the
Speaker 1: longer you're still in it, like you're reliving it over
Speaker 1: and over again. So the pain still feels raw because
Speaker 1: you're still living in that pain day in day out.
Speaker 1: But if you're not pulling yourself out of it. Then,
Speaker 1: of course, even a year later, it can still feel raw,
Speaker 1: just as the day, Yeah, because you're constantly replaying those
Speaker 1: feelings over and over again.
Speaker 2: Yes, And I've spoken to a lot of people or
Speaker 2: people have written into me saying, you know, it's been
Speaker 2: sixty years, like a long time, and I still can't
Speaker 2: stop thinking about my accent every time. Really, every time
Speaker 2: that I've investigated this with someone, they're not mourning their
Speaker 2: ex anymore. They're caught in a story of I'm not
Speaker 2: good enough or I'm not going to meet anyone else,
Speaker 2: or they're not taking life by the reins and living
Speaker 2: life right, and so they think it's about them, but
Speaker 2: really at this point they're just a metaphor for something else.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I also think sometimes it's creating this narrative so then
Speaker 1: you don't have to.
Speaker 3: Do the work, because it's kind of like that.
Speaker 1: You know, again going back to that where of course
Speaker 1: I still love my ex because putting into another relationship
Speaker 1: is going to be so much work and so much effort.
Speaker 2: That's a very good point.
Speaker 1: So sometimes the pain ends up being an easier option
Speaker 1: than the work that has to be done.
Speaker 2: Yes, because in the pain. At least you're getting some
Speaker 2: you know, you maybe there's some excuses to not put
Speaker 2: yourself out there again, to not take risks again, to yeah,
Speaker 2: to wallow, and to.
Speaker 1: Not forgive because they think sometimes when you let go
Speaker 1: of the pain, you think that means that you're forgiving
Speaker 1: that person and that what they've done is okay. And
Speaker 1: so you're like, well, no, I have to hold onto
Speaker 1: this because even if I'm not telling them, somehow they
Speaker 1: need to know that what they did isn't right. And
Speaker 1: so if I let go of the pain and I
Speaker 1: seem happy, they're going to think that what they did
Speaker 1: was absolutely okay. And so I think there's also this
Speaker 1: guilt that you feel for letting go of the pain
Speaker 1: because but what if that means I'm just giving in
Speaker 1: and allowing them to do what they did to me?
Speaker 2: Yes, totally. We could become a stubborn like.
Speaker 1: This, which brings us onto truth too. The mind is
Speaker 1: a battlefield. You said, stay in your head and your
Speaker 1: relationship is dead. That statement was like, it's like one line,
Speaker 1: but I feel like it has so much meaning to it.
Speaker 1: And how does someone start to get out of their
Speaker 1: head and the stories that they end up telling themselves
Speaker 1: over and over again, Like how do you start shifting
Speaker 1: the narrative?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it starts with self awareness, which is okay,
Speaker 2: Like some people are very good at just creating a
Speaker 2: negative meaning out of everything. We're storytelling machines, and so
Speaker 2: we want to become better at looking at circumstances that
Speaker 2: might be difficult, whatever that is, and giving it some
Speaker 2: sort of meaning that makes it so that life doesn't
Speaker 2: feel so brutal, honestly or just or meaningless. So it's
Speaker 2: a practice of well, if you really love me, then this,
Speaker 2: or if that person you know, oh that person gave
Speaker 2: me a dirty look, then blah blah blah. So just
Speaker 2: being able to say, oh my god, I'm in my
Speaker 2: head right now, what is that all about? Like why?
Speaker 2: You know? It probably has to do with a stress
Speaker 2: about something else, or you haven't moved your body in
Speaker 2: a long time, or you're dehydrated, or something else is
Speaker 2: bothering you. That is true emotional intelligence. And my book
Speaker 2: is just having that awareness. And so we do need
Speaker 2: daily practices of people. I mean, I actually think one
Speaker 2: of the biggest psychological and epidemics of today is anxiety
Speaker 2: and people and overthinking and it's plaguing our society and
Speaker 2: we need to get ahead of it by regulating our
Speaker 2: nervous system, working out, spending time with friends and nature
Speaker 2: and meditation I think is very important. And even if
Speaker 2: that meditation is just quiet ten minutes a day, but
Speaker 2: in a relationship, most of the time where people are
Speaker 2: having an argument, let's say it's more than just an argument.
Speaker 2: Let's say it's like a it's a pretty heated fight.
Speaker 2: They're not really fighting with each other. They're fighting with
Speaker 2: mom in that moment because that's something they did reminded
Speaker 2: their unconscious of mom. Or they're fighting with you know,
Speaker 2: their ex right, So we're projecting a lot. Really, what
Speaker 2: tends to happens that people no longer fight with each other.
Speaker 2: They fight with the story that they have about each other. Oh,
Speaker 2: I knew that they did this, and we go we
Speaker 2: can really go into such a deep, deep wormhole of despair.
Speaker 2: And I think that just knowing that our minds can
Speaker 2: be incredibly unruly, they really can become a battlefield, and
Speaker 2: that one of the principles of cultivating and maintaining stable
Speaker 2: and healthy relationships is bringing mindfulness to a relationship. And
Speaker 2: part of that is mindfulness is what predicate's mindfulness is
Speaker 2: the understanding that the mind can be a battlefield.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you know.
Speaker 1: I remember when I did my yoga te to training
Speaker 1: that always say when you're in your mind, that means
Speaker 1: you're just not present here. Yeah, And so actually, when
Speaker 1: you are anxious, or when you are in your mind constantly,
Speaker 1: there's such a lack of presence. So whether you're in
Speaker 1: your mind while you're arguing with the person, you're not
Speaker 1: even hearing what they're saying, you're just reacting, or whether
Speaker 1: you're in your mind instead of being part of a
Speaker 1: social situation, you feel like you come away lonely because
Speaker 1: you weren't even present, which comes from anxiety. And anxiety
Speaker 1: is when you are constantly there's repeated thoughts in your
Speaker 1: mind over and over again, and so you lack presence.
Speaker 1: And so I completely agree. I think the more present
Speaker 1: we are, the more we're noticing things, the more we're
Speaker 1: noticing I'm making my partner feel uncomfortable here, not I'm
Speaker 1: in my mind right now and I'm thinking about all
Speaker 1: the things I need or Oh, this conversation is actually
Speaker 1: not going in the direction that it should be. I
Speaker 1: need to stop defending myself and comfort the other person.
Speaker 1: If really reminded me of so many times where I've
Speaker 1: been like, what you said, you're bringing things from your
Speaker 1: past into the arguments that you're having in the present.
Speaker 1: I remember at the beginning, Jay's so incredible, but he
Speaker 1: would always try and help me with things, which is
Speaker 1: a very natural thing to do. But in my mind,
Speaker 1: I tell this story a lot, I would be like, no,
Speaker 1: I can do everything myself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's all myself.
Speaker 2: I don't need you.
Speaker 3: You don't need to help me. I can do it
Speaker 3: all myself. And he's like.
Speaker 2: Make them feel terrible.
Speaker 3: Probably He's like.
Speaker 1: I know you can, but I want to do it
Speaker 1: for you. So I would deprive him the ability to
Speaker 1: help me, which is his way of loving me. Yes,
Speaker 1: because I had something to prove, not to him, but
Speaker 1: to other people that used to be in my life.
Speaker 2: Do you know how many women are doing that to
Speaker 2: their male partners right now all the Okay, so I'm
Speaker 2: not alone, Yeah, no you're not. No, it's that happens.
Speaker 2: That's a dynamic that happens a lot. It's because they
Speaker 2: don't they're not recognizing that is love. They're making it
Speaker 2: all about them. And you know, oh, I can take
Speaker 2: care of myself and that whole story, and so we
Speaker 2: have to wake up to those things and be like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is this person trying to love.
Speaker 1: Me, just love me, and maybe I can receive that exactly,
Speaker 1: and not receiving it is actually cutting him off from
Speaker 1: you know, the cycle of love of me receiving it
Speaker 1: and accepting it. And it's just kind of like it's
Speaker 1: literally like him giving me a gift and me just
Speaker 1: throwing it away.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: The truth three. Lust is not the same as love.
Speaker 1: And this one I think so many people get confused with.
Speaker 1: Could you just define the difference between love and lust?
Speaker 1: And what are the signs of lust?
Speaker 2: Lust is that thing that we feel in the beginning
Speaker 2: when we feel an intense physical attraction to someone and
Speaker 2: we feel alive inside and we feel pretty amazing, until
Speaker 2: you know, it can easily become not amazing. It can
Speaker 2: easily become obsessive. We can easily then become incredibly disregulated.
Speaker 2: And so what kind of starts with all these sort
Speaker 2: of like beautiful love hormones can actually you turn into
Speaker 2: a lot of cortisol and dysregulation and stress. So lust
Speaker 2: when they say that, you know, love makes us crazy.
Speaker 2: I think it's more lust that makes us crazy. So
Speaker 2: lust is that feeling of intense attraction, and we think
Speaker 2: that it's love because we can't stop thinking about the person.
Speaker 2: But really what love, love is way more than just
Speaker 2: a feeling. Love is something that we do. The perfect
Speaker 2: example is the example you share it of Jay wanting
Speaker 2: to do things for you because he's wanting to love,
Speaker 2: and that by you sort of rejecting that because if
Speaker 2: your own past and story, you're sort of blocking the
Speaker 2: flow of love, right. You know, when there's lust, you
Speaker 2: might be like okay, you know fine, you know whatever
Speaker 2: that is, you know, and it's not like passion and
Speaker 2: attraction has to go away, but certainly in a long
Speaker 2: term relationship, it takes mindfulness to keep it alive. And
Speaker 2: in the beginning, like I said, it's just lust is
Speaker 2: also when we're just projecting our ideal onto you know,
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, I met this amazing person, they're just perfect,
Speaker 2: Oh my god. And sometimes that happens because we meet
Speaker 2: someone they have like a few things on our list
Speaker 2: that we want and we go mad over them and
Speaker 2: we put them on a pedestal. We can't stop thinking
Speaker 2: about them and they're a stranger. And love is really
Speaker 2: something that happens after that settles where we want to
Speaker 2: build a life with someone where someone's whole being and
Speaker 2: their needs are very important. There is important to us
Speaker 2: as our own.
Speaker 1: You mistake instability and the unknown with excitement, yes, and
Speaker 1: in love it's kind of like you feel this sudden feel,
Speaker 1: you feel this underlying feeling of stability, yes, and safety yes.
Speaker 1: And I think sometimes lack of safety can feel like
Speaker 1: excitement and lack of the unknown and this like what
Speaker 1: if and you know, you get you get into this
Speaker 1: well wind of the what if, and the what if
Speaker 1: feels really exhilarating and sometimes then when you're used to
Speaker 1: feeling lost. So I have a friend who I talked
Speaker 1: to her about this pretty much on a weekly basis.
Speaker 3: She's really wanting.
Speaker 1: To find a partner, but she keeps saying, I just
Speaker 1: don't feel the way that I've felt in my twenties
Speaker 1: when I meet people in my thirties, Like it just
Speaker 1: isn't that feeling that excitement.
Speaker 3: I don't feel that anymore.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, what you felt then, was you becoming
Speaker 1: obsessed with people without you even know you'd have one
Speaker 1: conversation and you'd be obsessed. So you are looking and
Speaker 1: craving for this obsession versus this stability and this feeling
Speaker 1: of safety. And I've fund a lot of my friends
Speaker 1: in there. I wonder what you think about it. Where,
Speaker 1: especially when we were younger, we would be you'd go
Speaker 1: on one day and you start thinking about your wedding.
Speaker 3: Yeah, why do we do that? Where does that even
Speaker 3: come from?
Speaker 2: Because women just because a lot of women want to
Speaker 2: get married and they want the love and the partnership.
Speaker 2: You know. One thing about I'm curious, like with you
Speaker 2: since you brought your friend to this conversation, is she's
Speaker 2: someone who values uncertainty at a high level.
Speaker 1: I think she's used to men who have been uncertain
Speaker 1: in her life.
Speaker 2: But what about outside of men this something? Does she
Speaker 2: seek out adventure? Is she adventurous? Does she get bored easily?
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say she seeks out adventure. The places she's
Speaker 1: the most adventurous are all the men that are the
Speaker 1: opposite of.
Speaker 2: Her, the opposite of her. Yeah, well, so she actually
Speaker 2: has much more of a controlled life.
Speaker 1: Yes, she definitely has a very regular life.
Speaker 2: Yes, right, So, well that very regular life that's filled
Speaker 2: with certainty can also get quite boring. So what she's
Speaker 2: doing is that she's trying to meet her need because
Speaker 2: we all have the need for novelty and adventure and
Speaker 2: the unknown. So she's trying to meet her need for
Speaker 2: the unknown because her life is very predictable through men
Speaker 2: and relationships, as opposed to learning how to meet that need.
Speaker 2: If she actually maybe took some risks in life and
Speaker 2: maybe was a little more leaning towards uncertainty and not
Speaker 2: just certainty, she may not need to find that.
Speaker 3: Take as many risks.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Some of those risks have
Speaker 1: ended her up in for twenty four hours.
Speaker 3: She knows what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: You know, when I was talking about the love in
Speaker 1: your twenties versus thirties, I was reading about this, and
Speaker 1: I don't know whether you know more about it, but
Speaker 1: it says how our hormones when we were in our
Speaker 1: teenag years and when we're in our young years, they're
Speaker 1: completely different, and because they are kind of coming into ourselves, Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's so much more erratic, and so that obsessiveness actually
Speaker 1: comes a lot easier when you are in your teenage
Speaker 1: years and when you're getting the first feelings of liking someone.
Speaker 1: And so when you've been through a few relationships or
Speaker 1: you felt that feeling quite a few times between your
Speaker 1: twenties and your thirties, once you get to your thirties
Speaker 1: or your forties, actually you don't have that intense hormonal
Speaker 1: attraction anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I know people who do have that, yeah,
Speaker 2: in their thirties and forties. But yes, that does track.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, it's also part of like immaturity, right,
Speaker 2: we're at that age, and yeah, I mean that definitely
Speaker 2: makes sense. There is some biological stuff to that. I mean,
Speaker 2: the presence of means that women create more oxytocin, and
Speaker 2: so that's more of the bonding hormone.
Speaker 1: So there's yeah, yeah, it makes sense. Do you believe
Speaker 1: that there is such thing as the One?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: No, okay, Please tell me more.
Speaker 2: What do people think of when they think of the One?
Speaker 2: They think of this person who's going to come into
Speaker 2: their life make all their problems disappear, and that they
Speaker 2: are this is unconscious. They think that this person is
Speaker 2: going to be more evolved than them and is almost
Speaker 2: going to be close to almost like a parental figure
Speaker 2: in that way that they're going to come and fill
Speaker 2: all our voids and that when we find our soulmate,
Speaker 2: everything is fine, and that's not true. I mean, and
Speaker 2: there's also many the ones. There's the one that you
Speaker 2: were with when you were sixteen, there's the one that
Speaker 2: some people got married to and then later divorced, and
Speaker 2: you know, it's also it says like if you're with
Speaker 2: the one, then you are guaranteed the relationship you want,
Speaker 2: and that is not true. And that probably is like
Speaker 2: the biggest problem with that concept that erodes are understanding
Speaker 2: of what love is. And so with the person who
Speaker 2: is right for you, you still have to show up
Speaker 2: and your problems are still going to be there, and
Speaker 2: you still have to participate in there and nurture the relationship.
Speaker 2: I know. I think if we thought there's just one
Speaker 2: person for us, that's a very depressing perspective because then
Speaker 2: waiting and waiting, they or they tell themselves, the hypnotize
Speaker 2: themselves into believing that the person who they lost is
Speaker 2: the one and so there's no one else for them
Speaker 2: and that's tragic.
Speaker 1: And then trying to mimic those feelings in someone else
Speaker 1: and thinking that's what I have to feel in the
Speaker 1: next relationship. Yes, I think that's something that people have
Speaker 1: struggled with that I've spoken to too, and I don't
Speaker 1: feel the same as I did when I was in
Speaker 1: that relationship. But each person is so different so it
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be a replication of that. You can
Speaker 1: have a different type of relationship and it can still
Speaker 1: be considered love.
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, and ultimately we choose so the one will
Speaker 2: be yeah, oh yeah, And.
Speaker 3: How do you choose that?
Speaker 1: Like, what if someone's trying to attract a partner right
Speaker 1: now in their life.
Speaker 3: You're saying you choose that? What is that process?
Speaker 2: It's emotions, but it's also a process of discernment. It's
Speaker 2: very important to know what it is that you want
Speaker 2: in a relationship and what it is that you need. Specifically,
Speaker 2: if you're someone who doesn't have the best track record,
Speaker 2: or you've been single a long time and you really
Speaker 2: want to meet someone, know what you want and what
Speaker 2: you need, but don't have a whole list of what
Speaker 2: this person looks like, or you know they know how
Speaker 2: to work or screwdriver or whatever it is. You have
Speaker 2: to like, we have to be very very clear about
Speaker 2: what's tolerable and what's intolerable right, and then have a
Speaker 2: lot of flexibility and open mindedness about the rest. But
Speaker 2: do get very clear about what your non negotiables are
Speaker 2: and what your deal breakers are.
Speaker 1: What do you consider Do you think everyone's deal breakers
Speaker 1: are going to be different?
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: It's so interesting to him because I feel like there's
Speaker 1: so many people, especially online, that are like, these should
Speaker 1: be the non negotiables, and you know, you have your lists,
Speaker 1: and I think people are so swayed by other people's
Speaker 1: opinions when actually if they think they're like maybe I
Speaker 1: actually I am okay with this, and maybe this isn't how
Speaker 1: I see it. Like I know, when I started dating Jay,
Speaker 1: he was like, the one thing I'm just going to
Speaker 1: tell you now, these are the things that I know
Speaker 1: I won't be able to do. And he told me
Speaker 1: all that Who's like, I will not get in the kitchen.
Speaker 1: It's not because I think you should be in the kitchen,
Speaker 1: but I really don't enjoy it, and I will wash up,
Speaker 1: but I will not cook.
Speaker 3: And I was actually so fine with it.
Speaker 1: Then some of the other women in my life are like,
Speaker 1: but what about if you want him to cook for you? Like,
Speaker 1: what about if you, But don't you think that it's
Speaker 1: unfair that he doesn't want to cook in the kitchen.
Speaker 2: And that's all their belief system and all their conditioning,
Speaker 2: and you've got to turn down the volume of that
Speaker 2: noise and just decide what's right for you.
Speaker 1: So come home, and I'd be like, so, Jo, but
Speaker 1: what about if I got sick? Would you cook for me?
Speaker 1: Then he goes, no, I would get someone to cook
Speaker 1: for you, and I'd make sure they have the best
Speaker 1: meals for you.
Speaker 3: Yes, but what if I really wanted you to make
Speaker 3: my suit for me?
Speaker 1: But I've just said, like, that's not something I feel
Speaker 1: comfortable doing. Yeah, But and I was like, I'm so
Speaker 1: okay with it. But it was so interesting because I
Speaker 1: started seeing the shift of my beliefs or what I
Speaker 1: was okay with all my non negotiables because other people
Speaker 1: thought that should have.
Speaker 3: Been a non negotiable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: So it's also ending how much that can shift based
Speaker 1: on how much you take in other people's values.
Speaker 2: That's a very very excellent point. I would say that
Speaker 2: maybe universally, if you want, there's certain principles that are
Speaker 2: really important for long term partnership, Like I don't know
Speaker 2: saying values similar values kindness, you know, kindness, respect, trust,
Speaker 2: those things. But beyond that, it's very personal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it definitely is. I would love to switch gears
Speaker 1: to breakups. You talk about healing from past relationships. What
Speaker 1: do you find the common mistakes people make when they're
Speaker 1: trying to heal from previous relationships before they get into
Speaker 1: new ones.
Speaker 2: A big one is not taking the time to self
Speaker 2: reflect on what happened, understanding. You know, some people they
Speaker 2: really need to understand where the other person was wrong.
Speaker 2: You have to also understand where maybe you've contributed to
Speaker 2: the demise of the relationship. So it's really and I'm
Speaker 2: not saying you need to do this for years and
Speaker 2: years and years, but you do need to take some
Speaker 2: time to just self reflect. I would say for a
Speaker 2: lot of women, a big mistake is that they grieve
Speaker 2: too long. I forgot what the stat was, but something
Speaker 2: like the average of like it takes women like after
Speaker 2: a marriage seven years or something insane to get into
Speaker 2: a new relationship. So I would really love for those
Speaker 2: women to not deny themselves that privilege of moving on
Speaker 2: and opening up their hearts again. But I would say
Speaker 2: not self reflecting is a big one.
Speaker 3: And do you work with both men and women?
Speaker 1: I do have mean, you know, just a big difference
Speaker 1: in the ability to move on that's different between between
Speaker 1: men and women.
Speaker 2: Yeah, men tend to move on get into relationships much quickly,
Speaker 2: much more quickly than women. Part of that is because
Speaker 2: women tend to be more comfortable with really feeling their
Speaker 2: feelings and maybe sometimes even being in their feelings too long,
Speaker 2: whereas men typically have an easier time suppressing their feelings
Speaker 2: and then they start to feel it later. Another theory
Speaker 2: that I think is really interesting that why men tend
Speaker 2: to can easily jump into a relationship after a hard
Speaker 2: breakup is a lot of men value their freedom above
Speaker 2: anything else, and a lot of men will value freedom
Speaker 2: more than women value freedom, and so when a relationship ends,
Speaker 2: it's almost like even though they can be sad, and
Speaker 2: of course I'm not talking about every man out there,
Speaker 2: every guy out there, but they're able to really embrace
Speaker 2: their freedom more whereas women are like, I don't want it,
Speaker 2: I don't want it, like I just want to be
Speaker 2: with this person, and so they feel it's almost like
Speaker 2: they are there's a part of them that feels more
Speaker 2: comfortable with that breakup, and so then they're able to
Speaker 2: get almost get over it. But of course men are
Speaker 2: humans too, right, We're all humans, and everybody wants closeness,
Speaker 2: and so they're just able to just kind of go
Speaker 2: there again, do.
Speaker 1: You think there is a specific protocol that people should
Speaker 1: do when they break up with someone, so like no contact?
Speaker 1: Do you think no contact is necessary as a clean
Speaker 1: break from the person when you break up with them
Speaker 1: or can people be friends with eggs?
Speaker 2: I think everything is nuanced and contextual. So you can't
Speaker 2: go no contact if you have a family, if you
Speaker 2: have children, So there's that. What I have found is
Speaker 2: that a period of no contact is very, very very helpful.
Speaker 2: But if you had a marriage and a long term relationship,
Speaker 2: it's really hard to just switch that off. And some breakups,
Speaker 2: some breakups happen over a span of several months, but
Speaker 2: I will say it does more times than not really help.
Speaker 3: Yeah, people struggle with that. I know it can bounce back. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Do you think the idea that love is enough can
Speaker 1: hold together a relationship or can you love someone and
Speaker 1: realize that actually they're not the.
Speaker 3: Right person for you? Can both be true?
Speaker 2: Yes, both can be true. Relationships actually rarely end because
Speaker 2: of lack of love. They more commonly end because people
Speaker 2: don't feel seen, they feel misunderstood, they feel so helpless.
Speaker 2: They go into a state of learned helplessness where they
Speaker 2: don't see a way out of the pain that they're
Speaker 2: in with this other person. It's not always the falling
Speaker 2: out of love, and sometimes it's sometimes the love is
Speaker 2: so strong, but the attraction is gone, so you don't
Speaker 2: feel motivated to meet that person's needs because they don't
Speaker 2: they You just don't feel that passionate love towards them anymore.
Speaker 3: I wanted to move one to truthful. You have to
Speaker 3: love yourself.
Speaker 1: Yes, you said what you accept in a tract is
Speaker 1: a reflection of what you deep down believe you deserve.
Speaker 1: Why do you think people with that in mind, why
Speaker 1: do people accept abuse in relationships over and over again?
Speaker 1: Where does that stem from?
Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to answer that question, yes, but I
Speaker 2: want to just add something, which is that I don't
Speaker 2: believe that. I do say in the book that there's
Speaker 2: two camps of thought you have to complete. One is
Speaker 2: you have to completely love yourself and feel whole in
Speaker 2: order to be in a relationship. The other one is no, no, no,
Speaker 2: you don't have to love yourself. You learn to love
Speaker 2: yourself through relationships. And I don't believe it's so binary.
Speaker 2: I believe it's somewhere in the middle. You don't have
Speaker 2: to completely love everything about yourself and be totally healed
Speaker 2: to be in a relationship. But getting to abusive relationships,
Speaker 2: I've never known a person who's been in a very
Speaker 2: unhealthy relationship and or an abusive relationship who also did
Speaker 2: not strug to accept who they are and love to
Speaker 2: love themselves. So why do people stay in abusive relationships?
Speaker 2: That was the question, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just see so many successful, ambitious women who see
Speaker 1: what they've got it all together and they end up
Speaker 1: in severely physically or emotionally abusive relationships.
Speaker 2: Shocking, right. So it's interesting how we can have so
Speaker 2: much confidence in one area of our life and then
Speaker 2: another area of life we just don't. There's a few reasons.
Speaker 2: One is that's how they saw their parents do it.
Speaker 2: Another one is that they just don't see themselves as
Speaker 2: worthy in that way. They don't see themselves as deserving
Speaker 2: of love. Maybe they've never seen it. Sometimes people stay
Speaker 2: in these relationships because they don't know the way out.
Speaker 2: Maybe they're afraid that there's going to be some sort
Speaker 2: of repercussion or consequence. Yeah, But most times it means
Speaker 2: something needs to be looked at within about why you
Speaker 2: tolerate that. And sometimes you see there's a lot in
Speaker 2: women they just are so empathetic. And what it is
Speaker 2: is that So we can't just reduce it to we
Speaker 2: don't love yourself. But what we can say is there
Speaker 2: are some people who are so adept at seeing the
Speaker 2: good in others, yes, that they are able to ignore
Speaker 2: what's really right in front of them.
Speaker 3: But he's got such a good heart, and I know
Speaker 3: that do better. Yeah, I know he wants to be
Speaker 3: a better.
Speaker 1: Person and less exactly, just constantly see that, and it's
Speaker 1: and it trumps the feeling that it's making you feel
Speaker 1: about yourself exactly. You can just lose yourself in this
Speaker 1: idea that you can. I think it goes back to
Speaker 1: the feeling of wanting to better someone else and you
Speaker 1: thinking that you can fix that person, yes, And so
Speaker 1: you think I can fix this person and I know
Speaker 1: that they are worth fixing, yes, And so it's I
Speaker 1: know that this is just because that they're having a
Speaker 1: bad time in life right now, and you kind of
Speaker 1: compartmentalize it too, that they're a good human and I
Speaker 1: can help them and these things are just that stemming
Speaker 1: from their deep rooted issues versus this.
Speaker 3: Is actually abuse.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, it's have How have you seen people come
Speaker 1: out of that?
Speaker 3: In the work that you do.
Speaker 2: It's difficult. It's helping the person recognize that that they
Speaker 2: can learn to differentiate between that you can have compassion
Speaker 2: for this person and you can empathize with this person,
Speaker 2: and you can also do that from a distance, right,
Speaker 2: And that's sort of the recovery work and codependency and
Speaker 2: alcoholism and all of that is learning how to detach
Speaker 2: with love and learning how to say, Okay, this is
Speaker 2: not going to work, but it's It's also there's more
Speaker 2: to it because in order to be constantly focusing on
Speaker 2: the other, there is inherently a neglect of the self.
Speaker 2: So it's also helping the person return to their life
Speaker 2: and theirselfs themselves and what they want to build in life.
Speaker 2: And depending on the situation it could be it can
Speaker 2: be difficult.
Speaker 1: And for a woman who wants to stop rebuilding her
Speaker 1: relationship with herself, how do you do you have any
Speaker 1: specific practices or ways that whether it's journaling, whatever, is
Speaker 1: any cues that you can give to someone on how
Speaker 1: they can stop changing that perception of what they deserve.
Speaker 2: One of the hardest questions to answer for everyone is
Speaker 2: what do I want? Yeah, but you need to reflect
Speaker 2: on that and maybe what you to make the question
Speaker 2: easier to answer is what would make me feel more fulfilled?
Speaker 2: What would make me feel more connected, what would make
Speaker 2: my life a little bit more fun? And you start
Speaker 2: to think about that, and by doing that you start
Speaker 2: to learn how to meet your own needs. Right, and
Speaker 2: then of course journaling. And for some people this is
Speaker 2: not for everyone. Some people are like, this doesn't work,
Speaker 2: and other people they say, this is amazing, looking in
Speaker 2: the mirror and saying I love you. Some people are like,
Speaker 2: I absolutely cannot do that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is so craze.
Speaker 2: This is so cringe. But some people really get into
Speaker 2: it and building community, building building community. I think that,
Speaker 2: you know, bringing back this concept of freedom and women
Speaker 2: who stay in abusive relationships, I think it really behooves
Speaker 2: women to value freedom more than they typically do and
Speaker 2: to value purpose more than they typically do. Right, it
Speaker 2: kind of develops if you will sort of like their
Speaker 2: healthy masculine side. I don't even know if we would
Speaker 2: call that the masculine side anymore anyway, but you know, yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, there's a great tip.
Speaker 1: So looking in the mirror, finding community and asking yourself
Speaker 1: questions about yourself, and yeah, to know yourself.
Speaker 2: And starting a new project like what a passion project
Speaker 2: or hardly anything, it's so incredibly important. And stay very
Speaker 2: close to your friends. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Two five is you must speak up and tell the truth.
Speaker 1: What are some questions that if you're already in a relationship.
Speaker 1: What are some of the questions that we should be
Speaker 1: asking our partners regularly?
Speaker 2: How can I be an amazing partner to you this week?
Speaker 2: What do you need that you're not getting? There's something
Speaker 2: that I would really love for you to do for me.
Speaker 2: Can I tell you what that is?
Speaker 3: There's are great questions.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Funny Jay asks me them like every week. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I need to do that more. I spoke to a
Speaker 1: friend recently. I have some questions that actually have come
Speaker 1: also from I put up a poll online. Ohat, I
Speaker 1: asked questions. But I spoke to your friend recently. He
Speaker 1: was saying that they've been married for years. Both used
Speaker 1: to their usual routines with their kids, but realized that
Speaker 1: they had lost their connection. What can a couple that
Speaker 1: want to rekindle their loved.
Speaker 2: Part of what I hear in that question is it's
Speaker 2: not just rekindling love, is rekindling passion, because when we
Speaker 2: get stuck in the rut of routine, we can lose that.
Speaker 2: They need to do something very fun together, maybe every
Speaker 2: week that has just a little twinge of danger. Now
Speaker 2: I don't mean the kind of danger where you are
Speaker 2: literally putting yourself in danger, but just something that feels
Speaker 2: a little on the edge. Because what's that's going to
Speaker 2: do is spike some cortisol and give you some dopamine
Speaker 2: and then you guys are gonna be like feel very alive,
Speaker 2: and you're going to be doing that together. And that's
Speaker 2: that creates chemistry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I said to me and Jay always trying to
Speaker 1: do like activities that we've never done before together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1: Every time we don't like, this was so fun doing
Speaker 1: this together, and like whether it's going to a random
Speaker 1: dance class that we never have an intention of doing
Speaker 1: that dance at any other point in life, but it's
Speaker 1: just doing that one dance lesson that one time, or
Speaker 1: going to a pottery class, so like doing going to
Speaker 1: a secret escape room, which I'm horrible at. He's like
Speaker 1: really into And it's just so interesting because you see
Speaker 1: different aspects of each other and you get to have
Speaker 1: a laugh together. Since we always try and get out
Speaker 1: of our comfort zone of why we didn't want to
Speaker 1: sit here and just watch TV together all the time,
Speaker 1: or you know, getting out of your usual routine.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 3: To see each other in a different light.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, that is the name of the game.
Speaker 1: You also say, when we're committed to being in a
Speaker 1: healthy relationship, we do not play games. It's really that simple.
Speaker 1: I feel like games are so subtle sometimes, whether it's
Speaker 1: I'm going to play this island treatment right now so
Speaker 1: he knows how much I'm upset with him without me
Speaker 1: telling him, or Okay, I'm going to leave this here
Speaker 1: just to annoy her because she's annoyed me. You know,
Speaker 1: there's so many subtle ways of playing games with each other. Manipulation, Yeah, manipulation,
Speaker 1: And I get I don't even know whether I have
Speaker 1: a question in this, but do you think that that
Speaker 1: comes from a lack of ability to communicate with each other?
Speaker 1: What your needs actually are.
Speaker 2: Yes, And it also comes from just a habit of
Speaker 2: punishing your partner.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So one of the things that everyone that I always
Speaker 2: encourage people to ask themselves when they're in a relationship
Speaker 2: or if they're reflecting on their past relationships that they're single,
Speaker 2: is so, what is your preferred method of punishment? Meaning
Speaker 2: how do you punish your partner? WHOA when you're upset?
Speaker 2: What do you do?
Speaker 3: I'm quiet?
Speaker 2: Yeah, quiet, ye, little quiet, I'm quiet.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And I didn't think of it as a punishment,
Speaker 3: but I can see to him that it feels like
Speaker 3: a punishment because he's such a communicator.
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 3: But for me, I'm like, I'm quie. Are you okay? Yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm fine. Are you sure though, Like, no, I'm fine. Yes.
Speaker 2: But that keeps them clinging, And then there's a part
Speaker 2: of you that like it draws him closer, because if
Speaker 2: we're upset with someone, so a lot of times we're
Speaker 2: upset with someone, what that triggers inside of us is fear.
Speaker 2: Fear that maybe we're not good enough, fear that they're
Speaker 2: going to leave us. Even if we know they're not
Speaker 2: going to leave us, there's some sort of insecurity there,
Speaker 2: so we gain our power by doing that thing that
Speaker 2: makes them give us a lot of attention.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess it's also just this little, this feeling
Speaker 1: of Okay, I really want to be loved by I
Speaker 1: don't want to ask for it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's kind of that, isn't it. It's like, Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: leaving you all these hints. Yes, I want to be
Speaker 1: loved and I want you to love on me, but
Speaker 1: I don't want to tell you I want it because
Speaker 1: you should just know. And that's kind of like a
Speaker 1: little girl syndrome where it's just such a.
Speaker 2: Little girls syndrome because that's what girls do all the time.
Speaker 2: Let me test them, right, let me test them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that cycle needs to stop.
Speaker 2: Follow me, But why are you following you? No?
Speaker 1: I want to be left alone. Five minutes later, why
Speaker 1: is he not coming? Stop playing games? People, stop playing games.
Speaker 1: You talk about the cool girl and good girl mentality.
Speaker 1: I absolutely love that because I think society and the
Speaker 1: way that we are wired is to be cool girl
Speaker 1: or good girl.
Speaker 3: Yeah, can you please explain the two?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the cool girl is sort of like nothing
Speaker 2: bothers her and she can go out with the guys
Speaker 2: and drink a bunch of beers and be like one
Speaker 2: of the dudes, if you know, if she dates men
Speaker 2: or and then but in the bedroom, she's like, you know,
Speaker 2: like a porn star, you know, the cool girl. Nothing
Speaker 2: bothers her. Oh, it's all cool, Like she just goes
Speaker 2: with the flow. She doesn't wrestle any feathers. She's just
Speaker 2: like she does not create any problems because she doesn't
Speaker 2: do anything because she's cool, or like yeah, like I
Speaker 2: don't care or yeah, you know, like it's just that
Speaker 2: vibeing you try to be easygoing or you just try
Speaker 2: to be like yeah, like I don't care. Yeah, just
Speaker 2: just sort of like I don't care vibe that can
Speaker 2: attract people, especially immature people, right, just sort of like oh,
Speaker 2: like this is cool. She's cool, Like she doesn't tell
Speaker 2: me what she needs, there's no problems, I don't have
Speaker 2: to deal with anything. Everything with her can be easy, right.
Speaker 1: The desire to be the girl that's so easy that
Speaker 1: they can just hang out with whenever they want.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So what happens is that when you're playing the
Speaker 2: cool girl, you could be totally mistreated and be like no, no,
Speaker 2: it's cool, and that's great for someone who who loves
Speaker 2: to treat people poorly. And then the good girl is different.
Speaker 2: The good girl is do everything right by the books,
Speaker 2: and you don't assert yourself. You're just you are agreeable.
Speaker 2: And the thing is, agreeableness is a good trait. It's
Speaker 2: like there, but it's but we also have to have
Speaker 2: a limit because we have to bring a sense of
Speaker 2: self to a relationship. And if we're always being the
Speaker 2: good girl, then again like we're not, we feel lost
Speaker 2: inside ourselves, we feel lost inside our skin. We can
Speaker 2: be treated poorly, we don't get what we want. And
Speaker 2: so the antidote is not to become the bitch. The
Speaker 2: antidote is not to be you know whatever. It's not
Speaker 2: to be anyone. It's not to try to be anyone
Speaker 2: other than who you are. And so and that that
Speaker 2: can be easier said than done. The common thread between
Speaker 2: these two archetypes is I'm not going to tell the
Speaker 2: truth right to please you, to get you, to please you,
Speaker 2: to be enough to get you wrapped around my finger,
Speaker 2: to not leave me whatever it is. I am going
Speaker 2: to withhold my truth and I'm not going to have needs.
Speaker 2: And that does not work in a relationship.
Speaker 1: No, because and I Almoso think, coming back to what
Speaker 1: you said, one of the other truths were of you
Speaker 1: need to love yourself. It's like, if you're agreeable, you
Speaker 1: lose yourself in other people's decisions and other people's needs
Speaker 1: and other people's wants, so you actually lose complete sight
Speaker 1: of who you are. And then if you don't know
Speaker 1: who you are, you can't teach someone else to treat
Speaker 1: you how you want to be treated exactly.
Speaker 2: And to be clear, it's not that to be agreeable
Speaker 2: is bad. No, it's not being nice, not bad. It's
Speaker 2: really good. But it's about are you to what degree
Speaker 2: are you so agreeable that that you become a doormat
Speaker 2: in life?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I can think I can. I can relate to both
Speaker 1: of them in different ways. So I definitely thought when
Speaker 1: me and Ja got married, I would be like, I
Speaker 1: don't really have any dreams or aspirations. I'll do whatever
Speaker 1: you're doing. And he had no desire for me to
Speaker 1: be that way. In my mind, I thought that is
Speaker 1: what a good wife should be, like. You know, he's
Speaker 1: got ambitions, he's got his dreams. I should the wah
Speaker 1: right now, I don't have anything. I don't I don't
Speaker 1: think I want to do anything, so I should just
Speaker 1: follow in his footsteps. And what he wants is what
Speaker 1: I what I should do, not he's asking me to,
Speaker 1: but what I think I should be doing. And it
Speaker 1: was so interesting because the more I ended up following
Speaker 1: in his footsteps, the more miserable I got. And he
Speaker 1: kept noticing. He was like, you need I want you
Speaker 1: to do what you love doing, like you do what
Speaker 1: you feel happy doing. You being happy will make me happy,
Speaker 1: not you doing what I do that doesn't make me happy.
Speaker 1: And then I noticed that in little ways, like when
Speaker 1: we were trying to figure out what to eat, I
Speaker 1: would be like, no, you decide, not because I knew
Speaker 1: I wanted, but in my mind I would think, oh
Speaker 1: if I if I don't say, if I say something
Speaker 1: that he doesn't want, then he'll end up just choosing
Speaker 1: it because of me, and then he won't be happy
Speaker 1: and what he wants.
Speaker 2: So that two of it. But it's cute that two
Speaker 2: of you are just trying to make each other happy, and.
Speaker 1: I think, yes, but I think it's also it's also
Speaker 1: this lack of wanting to assert what you want, and
Speaker 1: sometimes it can come out in the smallest ways and
Speaker 1: sometimes in the bigger ways where and the other person
Speaker 1: is that what do you want? Like I always think
Speaker 1: of that notebook thing is like what do you want?
Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, what do you you?
Speaker 1: Even if you decide to compromise because of love, there's
Speaker 1: a difference between doing the compromising because of love and
Speaker 1: doing it because you're choosing to like oh if I
Speaker 1: say this, and maybe it's not the right thing, and therefore.
Speaker 2: And yes, and we're disappointing that person and it's all
Speaker 2: of that. Yeah, it's a huge awareness.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 1: I wanted to head onto tooth six. Okay, you need
Speaker 1: to be your best self even after the honeymoon, and say,
Speaker 1: the fact is, even if you end up with the
Speaker 1: partner you've always dreamed of, you're going to have to
Speaker 1: face your demons. You're going to have to face yourself
Speaker 1: all the time. That is so, you know, I think
Speaker 1: when you end up getting married, a lot of people think, Okay,
Speaker 1: there we finally each other is done. Now now we
Speaker 1: can just you know, sail through. But it's almost like
Speaker 1: that's just the beginning.
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, And.
Speaker 1: Working on yourself is working on your relationship. Do you
Speaker 1: have any recommendations of how each person, in their own
Speaker 1: way to be back to partners, can work on themselves,
Speaker 1: like what weekly, monthly things should they be doing, or
Speaker 1: reflections that they should be having about how they are as.
Speaker 2: Pon managing your stress, Yes, and noticing how your stress
Speaker 2: is coming out in the relationship, if it means that
Speaker 2: you withdraw, if it means that you get super irritable.
Speaker 2: I mean, we all have stress, but we're talking about
Speaker 2: the chronic stress going in and out. And you know,
Speaker 2: because we can't show up to a relationship consistently moody
Speaker 2: and irritable and in a bad mood and then expect
Speaker 2: just to be loved. We can have our bad days
Speaker 2: and that should be totally okay. Yeah, but that consistent
Speaker 2: bringing it to the relationship. So I think it's really
Speaker 2: about really monitoring one's behavior and stress and being mindful
Speaker 2: of the energy that they are consistently bringing to the relationship.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's so true.
Speaker 1: You always think, oh, but I'm just having a bad day.
Speaker 1: But as soon as you're having a bad day, you're
Speaker 1: then transferring that energy for the other person to also
Speaker 1: have a bad day. So it's how do I manage
Speaker 1: my stress and my emotions to not constantly be bringing
Speaker 1: that to energetically pull both of us down. Yes there
Speaker 1: is truth seven, Truth eight, and truth nine, but I
Speaker 1: think we're already heading over an hour. But I wanted
Speaker 1: to tell you guys what they are so you can
Speaker 1: read them. Truth seven is you cannot convince someone to
Speaker 1: love you, Tooth eight is no one is coming to
Speaker 1: save you. And truth nine is you must make peace
Speaker 1: with your parent. And I feel like it's good that
Speaker 1: we don't go into them because it gives them more
Speaker 1: to read. Yes, but I want to go onto just
Speaker 1: a few questions that I was asked by some of
Speaker 1: the audience. What is the right time frame to move
Speaker 1: in together?
Speaker 2: This is such an interesting question because there's a part
Speaker 2: of me that sees the value in a more tradition
Speaker 2: and all old fashioned framework, which is, you know, maybe
Speaker 2: you shouldn't move in until you actually know if you're
Speaker 2: going to get married or not. But I know that
Speaker 2: that's very old fashioned. I'll never forget when I moved
Speaker 2: in with my ex husband, and obviously that relationship didn't last,
Speaker 2: but I didn't give up my own apartment. Even though
Speaker 2: I moved in. I thought, you know what, I haven't
Speaker 2: known him I've only known him a year or no.
Speaker 2: I at that point, I only knew him like seven months,
Speaker 2: and we moved in quickly, and I thought, you know what,
Speaker 2: I'm not giving up my lease in New York. I'm not.
Speaker 2: We were in New York, but I'm like, I'm not
Speaker 2: giving up my lease. And I think I think that
Speaker 2: was very smart. That was very good advice my mother
Speaker 2: gave me, because you know, living together is a whole
Speaker 2: different ballgame, and so there's no one way to do
Speaker 2: a relationship. But I do tend to err on the
Speaker 2: side of like, can you just go a little bit
Speaker 2: slow and really get to know this person, because if
Speaker 2: it doesn't work out and you live together, oh, it
Speaker 2: just complicates the breakup.
Speaker 1: I also think there's the flip side, which is when
Speaker 1: if I don't live with him, then I won't know it.
Speaker 1: Like I think I need to live with him before
Speaker 1: we get married, so then I know whether it's gonna I.
Speaker 2: See that too. Yeah, and I see that as well.
Speaker 2: For sure.
Speaker 3: It's definitely to know.
Speaker 2: It's very it is a matter of chords. Just know
Speaker 2: again the messages. Just know when you live with someone
Speaker 2: and it doesn't work out, and this isn't to scare people,
Speaker 2: But you know, do you really want to immessure your
Speaker 2: life with someone who maybe you just haven't even known
Speaker 2: a year?
Speaker 3: Yes, so let's give you a year as a ball.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I still think about and feel like I love
Speaker 1: someone I was with for ten years.
Speaker 3: How do I let him go?
Speaker 2: I would just say, it's really not about that person anymore.
Speaker 2: You're replaying a story in your head and you're living
Speaker 2: in the past, which makes me think that you're not
Speaker 2: living in the present. We need to start living in
Speaker 2: the present moment and start building a life for yourself
Speaker 2: that feels compelling to you, that you have a compelling
Speaker 2: reason to get out of bed to help others, whatever
Speaker 2: that is. Without fail, every person that I've ever spoken
Speaker 2: to or worked with who felt very much stuck in
Speaker 2: the past of a relationship that ended a long time ago,
Speaker 2: it's because they were procrastinating, if you will, resisting building
Speaker 2: their life in the present moment.
Speaker 1: I think sometimes it's also this feeling of this person
Speaker 1: changed me, or this person made me the happiest, Like
Speaker 1: that was the happiest I was in that era, and
Speaker 1: so and or this feeling of this person fixed me,
Speaker 1: or this person brought joy into my life and I
Speaker 1: haven't felt that since, And so I guess a part
Speaker 1: of it is also how do you then create that
Speaker 1: again for yourself.
Speaker 2: It's your relationship with yourself, it really, truly is. It
Speaker 2: just means that something needs to be explored and your
Speaker 2: relationship with you and your life. And absolutely, but a
Speaker 2: lot of times we were deluded. A lot of times.
Speaker 2: It's not a good really, it wasn't a great relationship.
Speaker 2: But we're replaying stuff and we're stuck in time, and
Speaker 2: you know, you want to slowly untether yourself and sometimes
Speaker 2: you know, a spouse dies and that's very hard, and
Speaker 2: it's a process to open yourself up to love again.
Speaker 1: I also think the more that you replace stuff in
Speaker 1: your mind, it's almost like it gets a little bit
Speaker 1: changed each time based on the narrative you want to
Speaker 1: create in your mind. So the story can, like let's
Speaker 1: say you've been thinking about it for ten years, the
Speaker 1: story slowly, slowly, slowly shifts towards to be favorable, towards
Speaker 1: what you want to happen or what you want to believe.
Speaker 1: So I know, like, even if you've been in a
Speaker 1: toxic relationship, you remember like the really beautiful times, and slowly,
Speaker 1: if you keep thinking of the beautiful times, you completely
Speaker 1: forget the times that he called you x racy, and
Speaker 1: you completely forgot about the time where he like, you know,
Speaker 1: locked you out of the house or whatever it was.
Speaker 3: You're like, oh, but that.
Speaker 1: One time he like hugged me and it just felt
Speaker 1: like the whole world fell away, and it's like yeah,
Speaker 1: but the next day he's putting a bit yes, yes,
Speaker 1: you know, like yes, but.
Speaker 3: You really do.
Speaker 1: And so I think the problem is the more you
Speaker 1: repeat thoughts in your mind or like stories or visuals
Speaker 1: of what that relationship was like, the further away you
Speaker 1: get from it, the more distorted it has the ability
Speaker 1: to be.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's very true, right, Yes, all memory we distort
Speaker 2: and delete all sorts of memories.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, So stop rebuilding whoever this is, Stop rebuilding
Speaker 1: your own love for yourself and creating new memories that
Speaker 1: make you feel just as happy. How can I know
Speaker 1: if I'm being empathetic or justifying something I shouldn't.
Speaker 2: It's all boils down to defining and being able to
Speaker 2: define the tolerable versus the intolerable, and that is very
Speaker 2: important going into a relationship, especially if you feel like
Speaker 2: you have not been treated well on the past. So
Speaker 2: knowing what's tolerable the intolerable and then also investigating your stories.
Speaker 2: Are you're saying like this? You know? Is this? A
Speaker 2: lot of times it'll be like, well, I don't like
Speaker 2: the way that I'm being treated, but we don't think about, oh,
Speaker 2: how we're actually treating the other person too. But if
Speaker 2: you have a history of tolerating less than you deserve
Speaker 2: and you don't realize if you're being empathetic one, you
Speaker 2: can ask someone who you really trust, who has an
Speaker 2: objective point of view, and then to really have someone
Speaker 2: help you get clear about what is intolerable in a relationship. Yeah,
Speaker 2: a lot of people don't know that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, know what your boundaries are?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to know what your boundaries are.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, thank you so much for this.
Speaker 1: I probably could ask you a thousand more questions, but
Speaker 1: I won't take up too much of your time. Thank
Speaker 1: you again, and everybody please go out and get it
Speaker 1: begins with you. It is such a beautiful book, and
Speaker 1: I guarantee you will come away from it learning so
Speaker 1: much more about yourself.
Speaker 3: Did thank you, Thank you. It's really beautiful. And I
Speaker 3: thank you so much.
Speaker 2: I appreciate you too, Thank you