1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Is a serial killer walking 2 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: the streets of Little Rock. I'm Nancy Grace. This is 3 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at 4 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: Fox Nation and Series XM one eleven. It's really hard 5 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: to think of a modern day serial killer. We think 6 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: of serial killers in the past, long ago, Jack the Ripper, 7 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: not that distant past, such as btk by torture killed 8 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: Dennish Raider. It goes on and on. But to think 9 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: a serial killer is walking amongst us right now in 10 00:00:47,600 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: downtown Little Rock. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We begin 11 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: with developing news out of Little Rock, where police are 12 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: investigating a suspicious death on West twelfth Street. We reported 13 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 1: it as a homicide investigation earlier this morning, but police 14 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: have since reclassified this statement, saying it was not readily 15 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: apparent to call it a homicide until after the autopsy 16 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 1: report comes back, and then very quickly the news change take. 17 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,199 Speaker 1: You were listening to our friend Mallory Brooks at KARK four. 18 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: Here are friends Bob Clawson and Laura Monteverde at KARK four. 19 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: Is an urgent safeueler tonight. Little Rock police say it's 20 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 1: possible one man is responsible for multiple deadly knife attacks 21 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: in the city. Authorities say the possible serial killer started 22 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: his attacks last year, the latest two just this month. 23 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: Pass he taken a pause and now reignited his desire 24 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: to kill. With me an all star panel to make 25 00:01:55,960 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: sense of it all. Joining us Brenda in Stallings from 26 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: Little Rock trial lawyer deputy public defender there and you 27 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:10,839 Speaker 1: can find her at Brenda Stallings dot com. Doctor Sherry schwartzaid, boy, 28 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: do we need a shrink? Forensics psychologists specializing in cases 29 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: just like this at panther Mitigation dot com and she 30 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:22,359 Speaker 1: is the author of Criminal Behavior and Where Law and 31 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: Psychology Intersect with me. Forensics expert Professor Forensics Jacksonall State University, 32 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star 33 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: of Poisonous Liaisons on the True Crime Network Joseph Scott Morgan. 34 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 1: But first to Levi Page Crime online dot com investigative reporter. 35 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: You can also find me a crime and Scandal true 36 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: crime podcast Levi. What is Happening in Arkansas? Well, Nancy, 37 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 1: this is a very scary situation in Little Rock. There 38 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: have been four stabbings and there's this nice hoping man 39 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: that is roaming the streets in the wee hours of 40 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 1: the morning. We have four nice attacks that happened, started 41 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: happening in August of twenty twenty and the latest in 42 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: April of this year. Three of the victims died, they 43 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: were murdered, and one of the victims, one victim in 44 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,799 Speaker 1: this case that fifteen times, survived. So this has been 45 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: going on for a year, Nancy, and people in that 46 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: area are really scared. Are you telling me I've got 47 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,119 Speaker 1: four dead bodies and one survivor or four victims in all? 48 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: You have three people that have passed away, that were 49 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: murdered in one that survived. And I bet you anything, 50 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: Jessica Morgan, there are other victims that have not been 51 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: attributed to this one person. But let me break down 52 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: as best as I can, and everybody in the panel 53 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: jump in. This is no time for the faint at heart. 54 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: Just jump in when you have a thought. This is 55 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: happening right now. Our insight may be able to help 56 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: the case. First of you, Joe Scott Morgan, death investigator, 57 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: to determine whether the same person is responsible for all 58 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: these knifing attacks. You've got one good eyewitness. I hope 59 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: the person that lived, although they may have been attacked 60 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,840 Speaker 1: from behind and didn't see who attacked them. But the 61 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: mode of the knifings, for instance, is that for instance O. J. 62 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: Simpson style where you slash the person across the neck 63 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: the way he did Nicole Brown? Is that multiple stab 64 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: winds to the back. Does the killer stab the person 65 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 1: and their sexual parts like their breasts or their genitals? 66 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: It happens are they attacked and while they're down stabbed. 67 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 1: All of these emos modus operendi method of operation will 68 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 1: help determine is it the same knifer? And also what 69 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: can we learn from the wound themselves, Joe Scott, The 70 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: type of knife, the depth of the blade, help me out. 71 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: How can we determine based on the physical evidence alone. 72 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: Just let's say we don't have any eyewitnesses that this 73 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: is the same purpose. Yeah, what we're looking for, Nancy, 74 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: at autopsy in particular with these three victims that that 75 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: have been murdered, is you're gonna want to try to 76 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: put together a profile of the weapon itself and some 77 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: things we can learn at autopsy. Is this a double 78 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 1: bladed knife it doesn't have two edges on it, or 79 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: is this a single bladed knife where it has one 80 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: leading edge and it has a blunt side. Also, it 81 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: doesn't hold down. Hold on joscot, Hey, I'm trying to 82 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 1: write down everything you say. But when you say a 83 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 1: single edge, you mean typically like the kind we would 84 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: use in the kitchen, like a butcher knife. It's only 85 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: on one side. Yeah, yeah, you would. Yeah, and more 86 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: than likely if this guy is using the same weapon, 87 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: because keep in mind, lots of people that serialized crimes, 88 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: they like to go back to the same instruments that 89 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,359 Speaker 1: they are used to using. So if he's using the 90 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: same weapon over and over again, you have to think 91 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: because people don't realize this. I've worked a lot of 92 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 1: cases where we have stabbings and the knife will actually 93 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: break off in the body. So he wants something that's 94 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 1: going to be We haven't been that lucky yet because 95 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: I don't think the weapon or any part of the 96 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 1: weapon has been recovered. Leavey Page, Do we have a 97 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: weapon yet? Did he leave the weapon anywhere? Was part 98 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: of the weapon found in any of the bodies, Nancy, 99 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 1: We don't know any of that information. Law enforcement is 100 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: keeping that very close to their vest I guarantee of 101 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: Brenda Stallings. There would have been a leak somewhere from 102 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: the Little Rock PD or with the press if they 103 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: had found the weapon. Brenda, that's your neck of the woods. 104 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: What do you think I think they have not found 105 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 1: a weapon. Why do you think that. I believe that 106 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: the Little Right Police Department is doing everything they can, 107 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: along with the Little Rock Police Chief, to let us 108 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: know as a community. Not only am I an attorney here, 109 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 1: but I live in the area. So we have been 110 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: we being our mayor, Frank Scott, our Downtown Neighborhood Association President, 111 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: serial Pulture, we have all been in communication with our 112 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: neighbors to make sure everybody is safe. So they are 113 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: communicating with us. The most up to date information, and 114 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: the information we have is that one is they are 115 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: not calling it a serial killer because there is no 116 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: link at this time and there is no weapon. Okay, 117 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:40,119 Speaker 1: I know they're not calling it a serial killer, but 118 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: I don't have to answer up to the Department of 119 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: Public Information. I can call it like I said, And 120 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: I think at least at least three of the four 121 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: are connected. They are all occurring between I guess around 122 00:07:55,440 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: eleven am to four am. Note one am four am. 123 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: That's one am to four am. And they're all occurring 124 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: in a particular area. There has been a video that 125 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: has been released. We don't know if this is the man, 126 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: but this is a suspect and they're all knife things. 127 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: I'm very curious if the knife things are similar. You 128 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: know what, Joe Scott, I went off on a tangent 129 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: with Brenda Stallings. Guys, you can find Brenda at Brenda 130 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: Stallings dot com. A veteran trial lawyer. Here's the deal. 131 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: You can't be a trial lawyer in the DA's office 132 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: or the Public Defender's office without being a veteran trial lawyer. 133 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: Because the case has come fast and furious and you've 134 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: got to either take a plea or you've got to 135 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: go to trial. Those are your two choices. So unless 136 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 1: you're in appeals, or you're in deadbeat dads or you 137 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: draw up indictments, you're in there trying cases pretty much. 138 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: So if you want to find or go to Brenda 139 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: Stallings dot com. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace come back 140 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: to you, Joe Scott Morgan, you were saying before I 141 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: so rudely interrupted about the profile of the weapon itself. 142 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:31,439 Speaker 1: So one quick thing now, according to Levi page these 143 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: crimes started in August twenty twenty and we're now at 144 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: April twenty twenty one. I wonder how many other knife 145 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 1: deaths could be attributed to the same person, And why 146 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: do you think they're not calling it a serial killer. Well, 147 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: that that is the interesting point. They might not be 148 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: fitting the same profile where the police or maybe the 149 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: state police have become involved at this point in tom 150 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: where there's they have this connection that's going on. But look, 151 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: if I've got someone that's going to and stabbing people, 152 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,439 Speaker 1: there's going to be at some level within that department 153 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: a connection that's being made. And trust me, they're looking 154 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: at this now. As to the weapon itself, some of 155 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: the other things we're going to look for are going 156 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: to be like, just so folks understand, if you have 157 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: a hunting knife, you'll have what's referred to as a 158 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 1: hilt and it kind of protects the hand. It's a 159 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: kind of a metal bridge a lot. And then maybe 160 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: you can actually have and depended upon the level of violence, 161 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: you can have a hilt mark on the body that 162 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: comes when don't we just do a quick demo. A 163 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: hilt would be like forming a little cross, yes, yes, 164 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: and the holds the knife and the hilt protects his 165 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: or her hand from going down the blade. Okay, go ahead, Yeah, 166 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 1: And so depended upon the amount of force that's left 167 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: that that occurs, you can actually bruise the body or 168 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 1: cantoose the body where it makes contact. Where you bury 169 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,559 Speaker 1: that knife to the body, they'll form a bruise there 170 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: multiple bruise the body, or at least read in the body. 171 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: I wonder if they found any of that, are thought 172 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: to look for that in the autopsies. Go ahead, place. Yeah, 173 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,959 Speaker 1: And here's another interesting thing. You know, knives are in 174 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: different qualities. Nancy, and we talked about you know how 175 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: I talked about how sometimes nice will break off. Well, 176 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: they're not necessarily going to break off, but sometimes if 177 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: if if a knife passes through bone, it'll leave little 178 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: metal flex in the bone. And if these bodies are 179 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: being X rayed, you can actually see this little metal 180 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: storm that takes place. If they can get to those 181 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: little flecks of metal, they might can actually do metallurgy 182 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:42,319 Speaker 1: on the metal that's left behind, and they can make 183 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: a determination of the origin of the blade. Now that's 184 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: kind of a long shot, but that's some of the 185 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: things that we're going to look for and not to 186 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: mention the nature of the stab wounds you had mentioned earlier. 187 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: Is this an attack from behind or is it a 188 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: forward facing attack? The individual approach from the rear. This 189 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,839 Speaker 1: is not like shooting somebody, Nancy. This is a very 190 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: you're getting into, doctor Sherry Schwartz, is territory. We need 191 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: a shrink right now. And remember everybody on the pannel 192 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: jump in guys, that we're talking about a serial killer 193 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: potentially roaming the streets of Little Rock tipline five zero 194 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 1: one three seven one four six three six repeat five 195 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: O one three seven one four six three to six, 196 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 1: or you can just email ask LARPD Little Rock PD 197 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: at Little Rock dot gov. Doctor Sherry Schwartz. I find 198 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: it keenly interesting that after nearly a seven month hiatus, 199 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: the alleged serial killer has resumed hunting victims, breaking the 200 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: hiatus with forty three year old Debrah Walker the morning 201 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: of April eleven, about one month ago. What does the 202 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: hiatus mean to you? Could he have been in jail. 203 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: That's a very very good possibility. Possibly in jail, but 204 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: we also know from Dennis Raider BTK right he killed 205 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: ten victims over what was it a thirty ish year period. 206 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: So with serial killers, it's not uncommon to see a 207 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: cooling off period varies by serial killers, if that's in 208 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: fact what we're dealing with here, but it's it's not 209 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: entirely uncommon. But yes, of course he could have been 210 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: in jail going about his daily life and playing about 211 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: his daily life, Doctor Sherry Schwartz, what daily life the 212 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:35,839 Speaker 1: man is out and about between one o'clock and four 213 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning. Do you think he's got a job? Well? 214 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: He in some ways sometimes this is their job, right 215 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: they you know, are planning their next attack. This is 216 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: somebody who is stabbing people, so they clearly like killing. 217 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 1: They like the blood, they like the gore. When you're 218 00:13:56,559 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: stabbing someone, you're you're up close and personal, right, So, 219 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: but I imagine too, this is more Joe Scott Morgan's area. 220 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: But it takes a lot of physical effort. So even 221 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: with that thing on the knife that you all were 222 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: discussing once there's a lot of blood, I imagine your 223 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: hands are slipping, right, so you might need some healing 224 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: time in between. So it's a really, really troubling way 225 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: to kill people anyway, you kill people is not great, 226 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: but this is particularly troubling. You know. I want to 227 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: follow up on something you're bringing up about what Joe 228 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan said, Joe Scott, what you were saying about 229 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: particles of the knife actually breaking off in the body 230 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: if they come in contact with bone. You know how, 231 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: for instance, paint off a car that's involved in a 232 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: hit and run can be analyzed and you can determine 233 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: what car, what kind of paint it is, and what 234 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: that professional car paint, what car it was used on. 235 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: For instance, Nissan, Mercedes Bins don't use the same silver. 236 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: They make their own, so you're going to find different 237 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: components in each of those paints, even though they both 238 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: look silver. I wonder if knife or knife particles metal 239 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: particles in the body caught on bone, have ever been 240 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: analyzed in that way so it give be traced back 241 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: to a particular knife. Have you ever heard of that, 242 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: because I just thought of it. Has that ever been done? Well? Yeah, 243 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: And there is a division within tool marks, and you 244 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: know where they'll look for metallurgical signatures, and metallurgical is 245 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: essentially a fancy way of talking about the chemical structure 246 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: of metallic bodies. Why do you talk like that. We're 247 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: not an eighth grade science for Pete's sake. Are you 248 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: saying the knife is made up of how much iron? 249 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: How much? And I don't know. They did not teach 250 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: me metallurgy in law school. But you're looking for the components, 251 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: the exact components in the metal of the knife to 252 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: trace it back to the type of knife. So they 253 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: do do that, Yeah, they can the FBI. Well, yeah, 254 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: it would have to be the FBI that I can't 255 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: imagine the Arkansas State Crime Lab would would be able 256 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: to have that ability. But it's that's very rare. Yeah 257 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: it is. But here's something that has has more of 258 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: a point to it. I think, just like doctor Sherry 259 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: was saying, this is a very very intimate event. Keep 260 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: in mind they're up close and personal and many times 261 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: with stab wounds, when you particularly get multiple stab wounds, 262 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: it's a frenzied event. Perpetrator perpetrator A good point. Leave 263 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: my page. Isn't it true that the victim I just 264 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: told you about, Deborah Walker, was stabbed fifteen times. That 265 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: sounds like a frenzy Yeah, So the case that you're 266 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: talking about Nancy on April eleventh, she was stabbed fifteen times. 267 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: She's forty three years old. That happened at three am 268 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: in in Little Rock on the street, and this was 269 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: so random. Shoes to fifteen times and survived. She was 270 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 1: able to give a description of this knife wielding maniac 271 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 1: to police. She said that he was over six feet tall, 272 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: slender and African American. I'm looking at a Matt Jack 273 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: you just sent me. Saw what you sent me, Jack, 274 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: and you can see, Oh yeah, I'm telling you this 275 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: is the same guy. Brenda Stallings. This is your town, 276 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: this is in your backyard, and you may very well 277 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: be representing this guy, which will be a death penalty 278 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: case obviously. But I'm looking at the map between the 279 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: Little Rock Zoo and I thirty. They're all right there. 280 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: They don't look like they're from this map. They don't 281 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 1: look like they're each eight blocks of heart. Well, Nancy, 282 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: I can say that for a Little Rock, we do 283 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 1: consider it different neighborhood. So Little Rock is not as 284 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,199 Speaker 1: big as maybe a big metropolitan city like you know, 285 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: Atlanta or Detroit. But in here Little Rock, it is 286 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: different neighborhood. So I can't see how where if you 287 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: look on a map it looks like it's about eight block, 288 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: which is more than eight block. Crime stories with Nancy Grace, 289 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time in Lottle Rock. My 290 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: now husband worked for a group out of Little Rock, 291 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 1: and I'm looking right at it. This is the downtown 292 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: area south of North Little Rock and not too far 293 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: from the Little Rock Zoo. Guys, take a listen to 294 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:56,919 Speaker 1: the Little Rock police chief. His name is Chief Keith Humphrey. 295 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: As Little Rock is on high alert. Listen. In early 296 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 1: April of twenty twenty one, our communications department received a 297 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: call of a cutting in progress. We responded. The victim 298 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: in this case lived and spoke with detectives about the experience. 299 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 1: Days later, we investigated a homicide where a lifeless body 300 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:22,880 Speaker 1: was found on Right Avenue. Detectives took information from those 301 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,880 Speaker 1: two cases and compared them to two homicides from six 302 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: months ago and noted similarities in all four cases. It 303 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: was determined then that these incidents could possibly be connected 304 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: based off the evidence in each case. Therefore, I need 305 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 1: to notify the public exists without compromising these investigations, I 306 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 1: could say for certain that these incidents happened in the 307 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:52,360 Speaker 1: Midtown area. They also occurred between the hours of one 308 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: am and four am. Those who were walking in the 309 00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: area were randomly attacked. So attacks in the area now 310 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: listen to Mitch McCoy k A r K four. We 311 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: know it's a man and we know that he's about 312 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: six feet tall or tall lure. So that's what we know. 313 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,440 Speaker 1: We know that the FBI is helping the Little Rock 314 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: Police Department out in this investigation. I was actually just 315 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: talking to some of my contacts at the FBI. Were 316 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: told that they are using agents from the FBI's Behavioral 317 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: Analysis Unit, which is kind of like that Criminal Minds 318 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: TV show Mallory where they try to get into the 319 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: minds of killers. So that unit has involved. That unit's 320 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 1: based out of Quantico. We know that they're giving info 321 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: to LRPD. We're also being told that the FBI is 322 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:44,719 Speaker 1: helping them use technology to help clean up surveillance photos. Okay, 323 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: you know what this is what I know. Justice Scott Morgan, 324 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:54,439 Speaker 1: Professor Forensics. The FBI is very rarely involved in a murder, 325 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: A single murder the only time I knew anyway, Sometimes 326 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: they're involved and you don't know it. The FANS were 327 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 1: involved in one of my cases literally thousands of cases 328 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 1: I handle. I just thought it was a triple homicide. 329 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 1: What I didn't know is that one of the perps 330 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 1: had been under FBI surveillance and surveillance by the d 331 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: EA for a long time for dope dealing, being actually 332 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: a drug lord. See, I didn't know that our case 333 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 1: is intersected. But it took that for there to be 334 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 1: any kind of federal involvement. When you get the FBI 335 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 1: picking through your case, you got a whopper. What do 336 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: you do? And listen, going back to you, you were 337 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: mentioning with doctor Sherry just a few months ago about 338 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 1: this pause that took place. What if what if this 339 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 1: individually traveled somewhere else? You know, another close town that's 340 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: kind of big, that is big relative to Little Rock 341 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 1: geographically speaking, is Memphis. If this guy goes to Memphis, 342 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: what if they've got stabbings in Memphis? Or you know 343 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: what if I don't know, what if you go down 344 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 1: to Streeport that's not too far away. You know what 345 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 1: if he's you know, kind of migrating around and you 346 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 1: start to get these pauses, but he's always you really 347 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: see him going to Memphis if he's on foot. And 348 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: another thing I want to talk about and please jump in. 349 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: Brenda Stallings and doctor Sherry sports to you the thing 350 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 1: that he's attacking at random. These are not people he 351 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 1: knows guys. Doctor Sherry, think on that a moment. Take 352 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,159 Speaker 1: a listen to more from Miss McCoy k r K. 353 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: There are four total knife attacks, only one survivor. Little 354 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: Rock Police say the victims were pedestrians. They are spread 355 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 1: between South gain Street, West twelfth Street, Nineteenth near Marshall 356 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: and Wright Avenue. Two attacks happened last year, the latest 357 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: two were earlier this month. They all happened in the 358 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: overnight hours. The victims, who appear to be at random, 359 00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:00,160 Speaker 1: are between ages forty and sixty four. Three are men, 360 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: one is a woman. The only survivor was stabbed fifteen times. 361 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: Little Rock Police calling this person a possible suspect. They 362 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: say he's a man about six foot. There are no 363 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: other details available, but LARPD is asking people to send 364 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,199 Speaker 1: in their home surveillance camera footage if they notice anything 365 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: suspicious on them. LRPD releasing in a recorded statement today 366 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 1: to send it to their detective's division. The FBI is 367 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,880 Speaker 1: involved tonight, and I'm told that it's the behavioral analysis 368 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: unit helping them to try and gain some kind of 369 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: psychological knowledge of this possible serial killer. And speaking of 370 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 1: psychological knowledge, I want you to take a listen to 371 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 1: our cut nine. This is Hunter Hoagland Kark four. The 372 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: lockability of downtown Little Rock is what most neighbors love. 373 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: But after Little Rock police say this man randomly stabbed 374 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,919 Speaker 1: four people walking alone, it makes you rethink. I mean, 375 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,400 Speaker 1: stabbed is a very intimate act. If to get close 376 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: up to her soon, Rachel Miller and her husband walking 377 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: to your South Gain Street most days, a street where 378 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: police say one of four victims was found with multiple 379 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 1: stab wounds dead. That is kind of creepy to know 380 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: that somebody will just come up and friendomly stab you. 381 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 1: It is horrifying. I know that we are a tight 382 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,880 Speaker 1: knit community, so my first thought was, let me make 383 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: sure that everybody is aware. And Chancy, that was actually 384 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: me speaking right there your voice, and it was me, 385 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,120 Speaker 1: and that is true. We are trying to make sure 386 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 1: that everybody downtown and in the midtown area are aware. 387 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: We are posting on our neighborhood Facebook groups. We are 388 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 1: having this discussion during our neighborhood meetings. The Little Rock 389 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 1: Police Department. We can see the police officers in the parks, 390 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,160 Speaker 1: in the neighborhoods. We are making sure our elderly are 391 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 1: being checked on. We are telling people when they walk 392 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: their dogs, walking pairs, walk in a group, when you're 393 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: walking and with your kids. If you see any suspicious activity, 394 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:08,120 Speaker 1: reported immediately to the Little Rock Police Department. Guys, you're 395 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,160 Speaker 1: hearing the voice of Brenda Installing's veteran trial lawyer. They're 396 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 1: in the public defender's office. To doctor Sherry Schwartz, forensic 397 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: psychologists at panther Mitigation dot com. She's the author of 398 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: several books, including Criminal Behavior Doctor Sherry Schwartz. The I'd 399 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 1: called them sweetheart murders, now that there's any love loss 400 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: between the victim and the defense and the perp. But 401 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: you are literally getting physical with your victim. It's not 402 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: like you're shooting at twenty paces or a sniper far 403 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: in the distance, or you're running somebody over with a car. 404 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 1: You are body to body grappling with them, stabbing them 405 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 1: as the lifeblood runs out of them. What do you 406 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: make of the fact that this killer doesn't use a gun, 407 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: he doesn't run over them, He wants to stab them. 408 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 1: He doesn't even know these people. This is very sadistic. 409 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 1: This is somebody who appears to derive pleasure from inflicting 410 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:14,360 Speaker 1: that pain and suffering, and maybe even gets a sexual 411 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: charge out of inflicting that kind of humiliation that sneaking 412 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,119 Speaker 1: up on the person and they never see it coming. 413 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: And one of the things that I want to just 414 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 1: touch on quickly, Nancy, is about the use of the 415 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: term random. I understand what the police are saying and 416 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: the reporters are saying about it's random victims because there's 417 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 1: not a connection necessarily between the victims, and it doesn't appear, 418 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: at least from the surviving victim, that this stabbing person 419 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 1: was known to her right. However, this is not a 420 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,679 Speaker 1: random act. This is a predator. This is a hunter 421 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: who appears to enjoy killing someone in the most sadistic way. 422 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,119 Speaker 1: They want them to suffer, they want to continue to 423 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: inflict the pain. They're clearly not afraid of the blood 424 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 1: or you know that sort of thing. So this does 425 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: not feel random in the way that this person's just 426 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: walking down the street with a knife. It's happening between 427 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 1: the same time of day. So this is somebody who's 428 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 1: casing an area potentially and lying in wait for somebody 429 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 1: to pass by, lying in wait for someone to pass by? 430 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: What more do we know? Take listen to our friend 431 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: Paris Kane at ABC seven Are Cut twelve. The recent 432 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 1: park shootings come in a time when LRPD is searching 433 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: for a suspect potentially connected to three fatal stabbings in 434 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 1: Little Rock. Our breakfast Mayor Scott says, connecting the stabbings 435 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 1: within an eight month period reinforces the quality of the 436 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: detectives we have on the case. We believe they will 437 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: catch this person. And again we also pray for those 438 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: families we're going to find you are You're going to 439 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 1: be prosecuted to the letter of the law, because the 440 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 1: people of this city deserve that they don't deserve to 441 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: be held hostage. Please say, tips on these stabbing suspect 442 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: are pouring in, and there is a twenty thousand dollars 443 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 1: reward for any information that leads to an arrest. I'm glad, 444 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: she said that a twenty thousand dollar reward. Crime Stories 445 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,360 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace for those of you just joining us. 446 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,880 Speaker 1: Police now believe a serial killer is walking the streets 447 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 1: of Little Rock in downtown Little Rock stabbing, as they say, 448 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: at random, although our expert, doctor Sherry Swartz says the 449 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: attacks are not random at all. While the killer may 450 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: not know his victim, that he comes at a certain 451 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: time within the space of two hours in the early 452 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: morning hours, one specific area of Little Rock always uses 453 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: the same m O, which Harlie bespeaks of random, while 454 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: the victims may in fact be random in that he 455 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: doesn't know his victims. Back to you, Leavi Page Crime 456 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter, what can you tell me 457 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 1: about the twenty thousand dollars reward? Who is offering that? 458 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: The Little Rock Police Department said there's a twenty thousand 459 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: dollars one. I don't know exactly who is offering up 460 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: the tipline Nancy for anyone that has any tips, they 461 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: can call five zero one three seven one four six 462 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: three six and give any tips to the Little Rock 463 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: police and they will follow up on that. To Brenda Installings, 464 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: veteran lawyer there in the Public Defender's office in Little Right, 465 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: this is her town, Brenda, I notice that police have 466 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,959 Speaker 1: only released a number of stab winds on one person, 467 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: that being Deborah Walker, who survived. Why are they not 468 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: revealing the number of stab wins on the other victims, Nancy, 469 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: I'll say this much. If there is any information that 470 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: is getting out and the alleged perpetrator is paying attention, 471 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: he might change his m O. And so the Little 472 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: Right Police Department is being very careful for my understanding 473 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: and making sure that enough information is getting out that 474 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: our community can be faith and our community can rally 475 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: together and report any suspicious activities, but also not given 476 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: enough information that the perpetrator will change his MO, because 477 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: that's the possibility. You know what, Brenda, You're absolutely correct. 478 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: You know. I'm curious about this video that has been taken. 479 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: You can see that at crime online dot com and 480 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: it's been released by Little Rock Police shows a man 481 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: suspected in four separate stabbings. I'm looking at him right now. 482 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: It is a tall black male. He looks to be 483 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 1: wearing in this picture jeans in a long sleeve T 484 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: shirt or sweatshirt. I can't tell if he's wearing gloves 485 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: or not. And he looks to be wearing white tennis 486 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: shoes and a hat, maybe a base ball cap because 487 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 1: I'm looking at him from behind, but I don't see 488 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: in his hands a knife. So where does he put 489 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: the knife? Does he put it in his pocket? Where 490 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: does he put that knife? Tell me about the release 491 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 1: of this video? Leave my page. So the Little Rock 492 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: Police Department released a video and it depicts what they 493 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: believe could be the suspect in these attacks and murders. 494 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: The video is dark because this is late at night, 495 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: early in the morning, and you can see a tall man, 496 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: slim built man walking on a sidewalk area in the 497 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 1: first video that was released, and he's pacing back and forth, 498 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: and there's a white car, a four door car, located 499 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: across the street from him. And then in the second clip, 500 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 1: it shows what looks to be like the same man 501 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: crossing a street, and it looks like he's wearing, like 502 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: you said, a sweatshirt, maybe even a hoodie, white pants, 503 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: possibly jeans. They're loose, relaxed fit. He's not wearing tite 504 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: form fitting clothing, and he appears to possibly be wearing gloves, 505 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: but it's hard to see exactly because it is so 506 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: dark outside. Well, one thing that's really interesting to me 507 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: about this is that in the one picture I've looked at, 508 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: several of these stills from the video and one patreet 509 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 1: his back is turned to the camera, and the other 510 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,280 Speaker 1: one he's wearing similar clothes, but he's right at a 511 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 1: stop sign, and it looks to be illuminated, such as 512 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: under a street light or some type of lighting. There 513 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: are you looking at the photo of him beside the 514 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 1: stop sign. Yes, you're right, that's a little bit clearer 515 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: than the first image. And you're right, it does look 516 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 1: like he's walking in front of a streetlight. Guys, Dancy, 517 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:51,479 Speaker 1: we asking people to check their external home cameras and 518 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: see if they have any footage and if they see 519 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: anything that stands out, to contact the Little Police department. Guys, 520 00:32:58,240 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut number five. This is 521 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: Ashley Godwin at TV eleven. It's terrible kind of make 522 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: escape the move, you know, glad of you, I'll have. 523 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: People are just still hearing about the man targeting the 524 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: Little Rock community. The first stabbing happened on August twenty fourth, 525 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, at South Game Street, where sixty four year 526 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: old Larry mc christian died from his injuries. The second 527 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 1: attack was only one month later at West twelfth Street, 528 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 1: taking the life of sixty two year old Jeff Welch 529 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 1: Police responded to the third attack on April eleventh of 530 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: this year at nineteenth and Marshall Streets. The forty three 531 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 1: year old woman was stabbed over fifteen times, but survived 532 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: those injuries, and just one day later police investigated a 533 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: homicide on Right Avenue where they found the body of 534 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:51,120 Speaker 1: forty year old Marlin Franklin. You know very curious, Jesscott Morgan, 535 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: you're the professor of forensics jacksonvill State University. How does 536 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 1: the FBI go about enhancing this video? And do we 537 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: know where the video came from? You know, that's interesting, Nancy, 538 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: because dependent upon the video is only going to be 539 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: as good as the equipment that is being utilized to record. So, 540 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 1: you know, you're already starting with a deficit here. If 541 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 1: this is the best that they can do relative to enhancement, 542 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 1: then they're going to be in trouble. That's why what 543 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 1: Misstallis was saying is so very important that if you 544 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,800 Speaker 1: can access people's ring cams and these sorts of cameras 545 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: that people now, you know, it's amazing how many of 546 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: these people have these installed in their homes. Now you 547 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: capture not just another view, you capture multiple angles of 548 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 1: this individual. And so if you can do that, the 549 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,240 Speaker 1: FBI and their Media Enhancement section, which is actually part 550 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 1: a subset of the Behavioral Sciences section there, it's like 551 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: an adjunct or auxiliary that they have. They spend a 552 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,320 Speaker 1: lot of time kind of noodling with the stuff electronically 553 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 1: and tightening up these images as much as they can 554 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: without kind of distorting them. And it's a very fine 555 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,799 Speaker 1: line they have to work with. And if they can 556 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 1: get multiple views, you can begin to develop things like 557 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,440 Speaker 1: gate wow, where we heard that before, Nancy A relative 558 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 1: to people walking there, you go, I sure do. And 559 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 1: also height, and that's a big thing. You know, they're 560 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 1: talking how this guy looks like he's tall. You can't 561 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,720 Speaker 1: really confirm that because if you only have one view, 562 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: it gives you kind of a stilted, a stilted perspective 563 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 1: on the individual, particularly if it's from above. So you know, 564 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 1: you really don't know what you're looking at. That's why 565 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,839 Speaker 1: you need multiple views. If this is all they have, 566 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 1: I'd say that they're in trouble. You know. I noticed 567 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,320 Speaker 1: that one of the videos dot A Sherry Schwartz, for instance, 568 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: psychologists showed the killer pacing back and forth. What does 569 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 1: that tell you? Well, if they're pacing back and forth 570 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,799 Speaker 1: ahead of time, they're you know, getting it seems to 571 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 1: me to suggest a state of excitement about getting ready 572 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:07,280 Speaker 1: to carry out this brutal, vicious attack. If it's after 573 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:12,280 Speaker 1: the fact, it's possibly shaking off that energy, that heightened 574 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 1: sense of yes, I just you know, accomplished another killing. 575 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,800 Speaker 1: So it does suggest this sort of in the way 576 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 1: of being afraid. Clearly, this is not somebody who who 577 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,880 Speaker 1: fears being captured because they're out in public doing these things, 578 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 1: but just working off sort of that physical energy that 579 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:38,759 Speaker 1: comes with that heightened mental state. I recall a defendant 580 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 1: convicted for murder went to jail and he was later 581 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 1: connected to some armed robberies. He came back to my 582 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 1: same courtroom since I had handled the first case, and 583 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,360 Speaker 1: I noticed he had been now been in jail for 584 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 1: a year. He paced back and forth in the courtroom 585 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,800 Speaker 1: waiting for the next as unication, like a tiger in 586 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: a cage. And I'm wondering why this guy didn't take 587 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 1: off running, Why he paced back and forth? Was he 588 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:23,360 Speaker 1: waiting on a ride? Why? But the gate that you 589 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,040 Speaker 1: heard Joe Scott Morgan referring to could be critical in 590 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:31,320 Speaker 1: this case for anyone listening to our voices or tuning 591 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 1: in tipline five zero one three seven one four six 592 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:43,240 Speaker 1: three six. Please help before we lose another life. Nancy 593 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 1: Grace Crime Story, signing off goodbye friend