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Speaker 1: Alright morning, ready for the last minute Christmas shopping more

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Speaker 1: shot today? Yeah right, I know, all right, how are

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Speaker 1: we doing here? Yeah? What did you see from Martine?

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Speaker 1: Got a little more playing lots of money maybe.

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Speaker 2: When we had another.

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Speaker 1: You yeah, I mean, you know, he gets a lot

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Speaker 1: of a lot of reps in practice on the scout

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Speaker 1: team and then you know, cul cumulatively, you know, the

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Speaker 1: piling up on defense. So it's good to seem getting opportunity.

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Speaker 1: I made a couple of plays for us, you know,

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Speaker 1: same thing to kicking game, you know, punt team, kickoff team,

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Speaker 1: so progress progress, Yeah, pretty good depth at that position.

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Speaker 1: So it's got a couple's got some you know, pretty

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Speaker 1: pretty good players in front of.

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Speaker 2: What on the on the scene lines where the death

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Speaker 2: Adrian Philips just maybe playing a little more in the

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Speaker 2: kicking game this year.

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Speaker 1: Right, and how what a what would you say when

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Speaker 1: his very professional and he does whatever we ask him

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Speaker 1: to do, ready to go, uh you know, stepped in

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Speaker 1: played well, you know when he's had the opportunity, same thing,

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Speaker 1: a lot of kind of a lot of depth deposition.

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Speaker 1: But it's not a good job for us, and the

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Speaker 1: they kick gained a really good job when Cody was out.

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Speaker 1: You know, it was a personal protector, you know, for

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Speaker 1: the punt team the first third of the season. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: guy can really count on. Yeah, just does everything you

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Speaker 1: ask him to do. The were Have you ever made

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Speaker 1: aware that there was an issue with the kicking balls

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Speaker 1: on Sunday? Yeah, we were. We were aware of it

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Speaker 1: in the first quarter. Did you ever get an explosition

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Speaker 1: for like how that happened, how it happened or or

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Speaker 1: what happens. Well, the officials handled that and they were

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Speaker 1: underinflated by two two and a half pounds. I think

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Speaker 1: you could see that by the kicks. You know, both

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Speaker 1: kickers miss kicks and Bucker had missed the kick all

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Speaker 1: the year kickoffs, you know, we had two almost one

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Speaker 1: out of bounds and so they there was six balls.

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Speaker 1: It was both sets of balls. It was all six

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Speaker 1: of them. So I don't know, you have to talk

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Speaker 1: to the league what happened on that, because we don't

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Speaker 1: have anything to do with that part of it. They

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Speaker 1: control all that. Then they fixed them at halftime, but

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Speaker 1: didn't do it before then, which is another question you

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Speaker 1: could ask. But we don't have anything to do with it.

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Speaker 1: So we're we aware of it, Yeah, definitely, but they

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Speaker 1: were all as I understand that all the they were

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Speaker 1: all the same. Just considered what happened ten years ago,

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Speaker 1: the money that was spent for that as it just

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Speaker 1: sort of wild too with something like that could happened,

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Speaker 1: you know, for verse nine years. Again, the things that

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Speaker 1: are out of our control. I don't know, I don't

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Speaker 1: know what the explanation is, but that it's the same

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Speaker 1: for both teams, so whatever that means. But yeah, and

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Speaker 1: Butler had a perfect season going. Yeah, coach.

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Speaker 2: You know a lot of people were aware that you

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Speaker 2: had to used to coach for Denver back in nineteen

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Speaker 2: seventy eight, just wondering if anything stands out to you

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Speaker 2: from that season. It was just kind of the organization

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Speaker 2: in general still depertain.

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Speaker 1: To this time. Yeah, it was a great year for me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was a great experience. The two years before that

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Speaker 1: I was in Detroit when I coached at tight ends

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Speaker 1: and the receivers in Detroit and then in Denver went

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Speaker 1: back to the working on the special teams and on

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Speaker 1: the well working on special teams in Detroit too, but

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Speaker 1: worked more on special teams and the defensive side of

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Speaker 1: the ball in Denver. And that was with Joel Collier,

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Speaker 1: and so Joe was and Richie McCabe. So it was

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Speaker 1: Stan Jones, Bob Zieman, Richie McCabe, and Joe Collier. And

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Speaker 1: then I did the breakdowns and stuff like that, and

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Speaker 1: so I learned a ton out there. I mean, it

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Speaker 1: was a graduate course from Joe, from Richie about the

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Speaker 1: secondary play and just in general the three four defense.

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Speaker 1: Now we played an over defense. It was it was

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Speaker 1: like a version of the three four Detroit, but it

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Speaker 1: was a little bit different. You know, Joe played a

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Speaker 1: you know, the three four defense that he played in Denver,

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Speaker 1: which was the spacing was the same, but it was

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Speaker 1: it was configured a lot differently than what what we

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Speaker 1: eventually ran in the Giants when Coach Parcells came, So

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Speaker 1: Baltimore was all four to three. Detroit was a different

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Speaker 1: version of odds spacing three four defense in Denver. Then

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Speaker 1: we played four to three for a couple of years

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Speaker 1: with Ralph Hawkins in New York, and then when coach

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Speaker 1: Parcells came, then it was all three four, but it

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Speaker 1: was a different type of three four defense than what

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Speaker 1: Joe ran at Denver, even though the spacing was the

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Speaker 1: same and that was. Looking back on it again, that

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Speaker 1: was a you know, great learning experience because I saw

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Speaker 1: kind of the same thing, but they were actually very

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Speaker 1: different in the way they were coached and the way

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Speaker 1: they were the schem addicts of it. And then of

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Speaker 1: course that changed some of the fundamentals too. And so

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Speaker 1: that was in the red area coverages that Joe ran

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Speaker 1: out there were i'd say at that time, you know,

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Speaker 1: he was pretty far ahead of his time. Not that

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Speaker 1: they're pretty common now, but at that time, you know,

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Speaker 1: they were pretty i would say unique for the most part.

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Speaker 1: And so that was a great experience. And then you know,

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Speaker 1: I really didn't have too much interaction on the offensive

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Speaker 1: side of the ball other than just yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: I was there, but I wasn't in those meetings and

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Speaker 1: that type of thing. But you know, the program and

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Speaker 1: we lost the you know, in the playoffs there, but

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Speaker 1: you know, had a good you know team year before

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Speaker 1: they had gone to the Super Bowl, you know, beat

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Speaker 1: Oakland three times. And so coming off of that year,

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Speaker 1: coming off the seventy seven season, right seventy seven season,

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Speaker 1: they lost to Dallas in Super Bowl. So that a

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Speaker 1: lot of good players, a lot a lot of really

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Speaker 1: good players out there and a lot of a lot

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Speaker 1: of good coaches, a lot of good experience that I gained,

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Speaker 1: you know, with Babe Hurley, who is the core back coach.

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Speaker 1: You know, they had Morton and that was I learned

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Speaker 1: a lot from Babe too, because I spent a lot

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Speaker 1: of time with Babe just you know, he kind of

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Speaker 1: mentored me from the opposite side of the ball. I mean,

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Speaker 1: asked him a lot of questions and bothered him a lot.

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Speaker 1: But he couldn't have been more accommodating from you know,

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Speaker 1: just the quarterback coaching perspectives. That's something I hadn't done.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I learned. I learned a lot out there

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Speaker 1: that year. Coach, you mentioned the three four in odd spacing.

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Speaker 1: I was wondering, how do you differentiate those and how

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Speaker 1: have you seen them change from your days with Denver

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Speaker 1: Odd to the modern league? Have we seen what changed?

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Speaker 2: Oh, those structures evolved in how teams kind of use them.

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Speaker 2: Mentioned there were different variations in spacing and things like that.

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Speaker 1: There anything more common about a three four defense? Yes, right, Well,

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Speaker 1: you know Pittsburgh has their three four defense. I would

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Speaker 1: say that's a lot different than way, way different than

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Speaker 1: what Joe's defense was in in Denver. The spacing the same,

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Speaker 1: but the coverages and the way the defense is is structured,

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Speaker 1: it was just a lot is a lot different. You know.

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Speaker 1: In Denver he played ends in five techniques. Pittsburgh plays

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Speaker 1: them and inside the tackles who called four I they

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Speaker 1: o were over shifted some unders, you know, Joe. At Denver,

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Speaker 1: we had we'd go into a game with you fifty

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Speaker 1: different fronts. So the three four became a four to three.

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Speaker 1: It became an over, it became an under, it became

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Speaker 1: an even, it became you know, a multitude of fronts

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Speaker 1: and stunts that went with those fronts. But we really

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Speaker 1: only ran you know, call it two coverages, three coverages.

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Speaker 1: But the but the variety of the fronts were I mean,

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Speaker 1: it was hard to block those fronts because there was

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Speaker 1: so many different looks, so many different combinations. And we

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Speaker 1: had good players and we had Ruben Carver on nose.

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Speaker 1: It was really good, al Zato who was good, shave

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Speaker 1: Us who was good, then grat Ashar and I mean,

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Speaker 1: Jackson and Swinson were the two outside linebackers, so they

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Speaker 1: were they were both really good. They could rush, they

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Speaker 1: could set the edge, the Jackson was fast, and so

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Speaker 1: those guys on the front were a real problem. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if they just sat there and never moved, they would

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Speaker 1: have been a problem. But then when you put all

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Speaker 1: the different combinations together, and Billy Thompson is a safety

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Speaker 1: who was, you know, really one of the best. I

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Speaker 1: mean I've coached a lot of good safeties, but I

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Speaker 1: mean he's right up there. He's one of the best

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Speaker 1: ones that I've coached or that I was with. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's just just a different system, that's all. But it's again,

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Speaker 1: it was a good learning experience. Is when I came

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Speaker 1: to New or when Bill came to the Giants from

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Speaker 1: New England and brought the three four his version of

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Speaker 1: the three four in, which was from Fritz Shermer, who

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Speaker 1: Fritz was in Detroit when I was there, when we

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Speaker 1: planned that like over five to it at Detroit. Bill's

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Speaker 1: three four was all different than Joe Collier's and so

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Speaker 1: as a as a coach, I kind of sat back

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Speaker 1: and you know, saw some ways to maybe merge some

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Speaker 1: of those things together, which is I've gone on in

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Speaker 1: my career, you know, taking some things that Joe did,

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Speaker 1: some things that build it, and kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: merchant together along with some other stuff too, because he's

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Speaker 1: a palastam Anders, you know, with all the challenge, how

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Speaker 1: is he kind of show himself with the fantastic fantastic

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Speaker 1: he's been. I mean, he's done as good as he's

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Speaker 1: just as good as I've seen. Honestly, every day, his

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Speaker 1: performance on a daily basis is really exceptional. Attitude, effort,

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Speaker 1: you know, communication, energy, leadership with younger players, leadership with

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Speaker 1: his peers, communication, uh, you know, you name it. And look.

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Speaker 1: I mean, like everybody you know plays a lot of football.

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Speaker 1: You know, you get banged up and you're gonna deal

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Speaker 1: with some some stuff during the year. I mean, he's

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Speaker 1: showed a lot of a lot of physical toughness to

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Speaker 1: play through that, a lot of mental toughness. You know,

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Speaker 1: he would never come out of practice for a play.

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Speaker 1: We have to take him out to you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of help manage, you know, some of the bumps and

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Speaker 1: bruise that he has. But I mean, this guy is

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Speaker 1: a warrior. He can't help you that it's not your

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Speaker 1: well what do you think about that? In coming around

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Speaker 1: with that was, Yeah, my fashion trends. One of the

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Speaker 1: things I'm known for. Fashion I rely that.

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Speaker 2: You would have to pay some very much.

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Speaker 1: Sean Payton's audiyes, Yeah, Shawn's I mean, Sewan does a

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Speaker 1: great job. Shawn's a really really smart guy. You know,

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Speaker 1: has a has a great I would say background in

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Speaker 1: terms of just football fundamentals, toughness, you know, a playing

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Speaker 1: style that's a little bit of a throwback style, but

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Speaker 1: at the same time very you know, creative and understands defense,

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Speaker 1: is extremely well and knows how to attack defenses and

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Speaker 1: really puts a lot of pressure on on the defense.

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Speaker 1: I mean almost every play he runs you can kind

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Speaker 1: of especially once he runs against you. He may run

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Speaker 1: other stuff against other teams that wouldn't be that big

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Speaker 1: of a problem for you. You probably won't see it.

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Speaker 1: The things that you see, you know, things that are

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Speaker 1: designed to, you know, give you a headache, and they

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Speaker 1: usually do, especially if he can hit it right. You know,

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Speaker 1: sometimes you know the players don't match up, but you

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Speaker 1: can see what he's trying to do and come out

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Speaker 1: of there saying like, well, we were fortunate we were

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Speaker 1: in this defense and not that defense, because that would

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Speaker 1: have really put us in a bind. You know, they

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Speaker 1: play fast, I mean they don't there's not much no huddle,

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Speaker 1: but they the tempo that they play with in out

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Speaker 1: of huddle motions not the ball receivers are are you

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Speaker 1: know aggressive? I mean, you know, like Humphrey and you

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Speaker 1: know guys like that, guys that he's had, you know,

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Speaker 1: Thomas and New Orleans. And also they have a very

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Speaker 1: aggressive style of play. You know, play with full back,

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Speaker 1: play with multiple tight ends, play with a heavy lineman.

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Speaker 1: And then you have to deal with you know, a

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Speaker 1: passing game too. That's you know, obviously got a good

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Speaker 1: quarterback and multiple good receivers, good tight ends. Tight end

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Speaker 1: has been hurt a little bit, but so you got

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Speaker 1: to deal with you know, a heavy run, you know,

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Speaker 1: heavy personnel, with an aggressive running game all the way

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Speaker 1: to you know, multiple receivers with good skill players, with

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Speaker 1: a very mobile quarterback. I think the offensive line he's

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Speaker 1: done a good job of. You know, those guys are

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Speaker 1: really you know, i'd say continue to get better on

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Speaker 1: a week, week to week basis. You know, mine Hurts

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Speaker 1: has had a good year. McGlinchey. You know bowls, you

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Speaker 1: know powers, I mean they've you know, Sean's built certain

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Speaker 1: things around what he you know what how what the

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Speaker 1: team is right now. I don't know if that's where

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Speaker 1: we'll be, you know, eventually, but what it is right now,

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Speaker 1: has done a good job of building playing into those players' strengths.

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Speaker 1: And you know, he's got a bunch of veteran players

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Speaker 1: in there that that know how to play, know what

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Speaker 1: they're doing kind of once they got going, they've played,

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Speaker 1: you know, played really well. So yeah, a ton of

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Speaker 1: respect for Sean. I mean, he's one of the best.

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Speaker 1: When did you get to know, Well, we got common experience,

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Speaker 1: you know, through Bill, both of ourselves. I mean that say,

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Speaker 1: we both Ben yelled at a lot, so we we

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Speaker 1: share a lot in common there. All right, great, thanks