Speaker 1: Hi, get everybody. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for downloading
Speaker 1: The Bengals Booth Podcast. The Yeah Revolution starts now addition,
Speaker 1: as the Joe Burrow Era begins with the arrival of
Speaker 1: this year's rookies. For the start of training camp. Coming up,
Speaker 1: i'll talk to Robert Weintraub, who covers the Bengals for
Speaker 1: Cincinnati Magazine and wrote the team's season preview for this
Speaker 1: year's edition of The Football Outsiders Almanac. Robert is also
Speaker 1: a diehard Bengals fan who is as giddy as the
Speaker 1: rest of us about Joe Burrow. Then, for the first
Speaker 1: time in a few weeks, it's my broadcast partner Dave
Speaker 1: Lapham as he answers my questions and yours. The Bengals
Speaker 1: Booth Podcast is presented by Prime Sport, the official fan,
Speaker 1: travel and hospitality partner of the Cincinnati Bengals. And here's
Speaker 1: a quick reminder that you can have the latest edition
Speaker 1: of this podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet, or
Speaker 1: computer by subscribing on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, Spotify, or
Speaker 1: pod Bean. It's the greatest thing since the way I
Speaker 1: heard at podcast with Mike Rowe You know Microw, the
Speaker 1: host of Dirty Jobs on the Discovery Channel and the
Speaker 1: deep voiced pitchman for Ford truck commercials. I recently became
Speaker 1: aware of a podcast that he's been doing for about
Speaker 1: four years called The Way I Heard It. If you're
Speaker 1: old enough to remember radio legend Paul Harvey and his
Speaker 1: now you know the rest of the Story features, this
Speaker 1: podcast is very similar. They're short stories with a clever
Speaker 1: twist at the end. The writing is great and Micro's
Speaker 1: vocal presentation is nothing short of magnificent. The stories are
Speaker 1: less than ten minutes long and you'll love them. So
Speaker 1: check out The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts Now, let's get to football.
Speaker 1: Last year, I purchased The Football Outsider's Almanac for the
Speaker 1: first time, and did it somewhat reluctantly. In my mind,
Speaker 1: I pictured it being mostly a book of in depth stats,
Speaker 1: and while I like that stuff, I already get plenty
Speaker 1: of data from Pro Football Focus and elsewhere. Well Man,
Speaker 1: was I wrong. The Football Outsider's Almanac is more than
Speaker 1: five hundred pages long, and while it definitely includes a
Speaker 1: lot of statistical analysis, the writing is great and it's
Speaker 1: filled with snarky humor. It includes in depth previews for
Speaker 1: all thirty two NFL teams and the Bengals chapter this
Speaker 1: year was written by Robert Weintraub, who also covers the
Speaker 1: team for Cincinnati Magazine. I spoke to Robert this week. Robert,
Speaker 1: I guess your feelings about Joe Burrow can be summed
Speaker 1: up by this sentence that you wrote in Cincinnati Magazine.
Speaker 1: Quote pure awesomeness, oozing out of his every pore, don't
Speaker 1: hold back. Yeah, did I oversell it? We there? I
Speaker 1: think anything? I feel like I understand. Yeah, it was amazing.
Speaker 1: I remember I went to the LSU Oklahoma semi final.
Speaker 1: I live in Atlanta. He was here, and I was
Speaker 1: just a quiver, I guess you'd say at all times,
Speaker 1: and by halftime I was just yelling for them to
Speaker 1: take Burrow out so he wouldn't get injured, and just
Speaker 1: I want him to go directly into the Bengal lineup.
Speaker 1: Right at that point, there's no doubt he provides, you know,
Speaker 1: a boost of excitement and optimism that we haven't felt
Speaker 1: in the Bengal land and sometimes so what else is
Speaker 1: there to say? You know, we can only hope that
Speaker 1: any of that translates to the NFL, especially in this bizarre,
Speaker 1: you know, offseason that we've had, and hopefully we even
Speaker 1: have a season. But I guess we'll put that that
Speaker 1: note of pessimism aside and just, you know, hope that
Speaker 1: Joe translates as we think he should. He has all
Speaker 1: the traits, you know, he certainly has the mind for
Speaker 1: the game, and he's His statistical numbers at LSU were
Speaker 1: off the charts, both counting and what we call analytical
Speaker 1: numbers over here at Football Outsiders, so you know, he's
Speaker 1: We have a projection system that is called q base,
Speaker 1: and he had the second highest of all time for
Speaker 1: any starter with less two or fewer years of starting.
Speaker 1: The only one ever was Alex Smith. Alex Smith who
Speaker 1: best to him, But he had a higher projection than
Speaker 1: the likes of Cam Newton and even to attack of Violoa,
Speaker 1: who would be compared to no doubt throughout his career.
Speaker 1: So and I think he certainly projects as a higher
Speaker 1: possibility than even Alex Smith. So if we can get
Speaker 1: that kind of career out of Joe, it would be
Speaker 1: you know, it would be great, and you know, sky's
Speaker 1: the limit. We can dream even higher than that. Hopefully
Speaker 1: if they ever get a chance to play ball again.
Speaker 1: Nobody wants to see their teams starting eleven and go
Speaker 1: to and fourteen, but ultimately was bottoming out the best
Speaker 1: thing long term for this franchise. I don't think there's
Speaker 1: any doubt about it, right, I mean where would six
Speaker 1: and ten have gotten them? Absolutely nowhere? Maybe even yet
Speaker 1: another year of Andy Dalton. I mean nothing against Andy,
Speaker 1: but we couldn't have had yet another year spinning the wheels, right.
Speaker 1: I mean maybe you could argue that, okay, you bought
Speaker 1: them out this year coming up, and then you have
Speaker 1: another three or four quarterbacks who are potentially franchise quarterbacks,
Speaker 1: I guess, but you know you have a chance at one,
Speaker 1: you grab them and you don't look back. And I
Speaker 1: think there's no doubt they really the three games that
Speaker 1: you know, Andy didn't start this past year and Ryan
Speaker 1: Finley was in there wound up being the most important
Speaker 1: three games in the season, probably because you know, who
Speaker 1: knows what happens if Dalton starts those games, and maybe
Speaker 1: the Bengals finish four and twelve, and we're all trying
Speaker 1: to talk ourselves into Justin Herbert right about now, you know,
Speaker 1: so I don't think there's any question. If you're going
Speaker 1: to be a bad team, there's no benefit and being
Speaker 1: a sort of a bad team just being all the
Speaker 1: way a bad team, and that just doesn't go for
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow. You know, it makes the whole franchise look
Speaker 1: in the mirror and make a raft of changes, which
Speaker 1: obviously they did in many other places, not just a quarterback.
Speaker 1: So I think that's overall for the best spinning their
Speaker 1: wheels had been done for about four year years and
Speaker 1: it was enough already. We're talking to Robert Weintraub, who
Speaker 1: wrote the Bengals chapter in this year's Football Outsiders Almanac.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about free agency. The Bengals obviously
Speaker 1: went all in DJ reader, Trey Wayne's and six others.
Speaker 1: You wrote something that I hadn't seen anywhere else, and
Speaker 1: that is that the Bengals are basically one year behind
Speaker 1: the Packers, an organization that has always stressed draft and development,
Speaker 1: and then last year the Packers embraced free agency. They
Speaker 1: signed Zadarius Smith, they signed Preston Smith and several other
Speaker 1: guys and wound up going thirteen and three. Do you
Speaker 1: think the Bengals learned from Green Bay. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: necessarily think they'll go thirteen and three, but I don't
Speaker 1: think there's any doubt that they saw what the landscape
Speaker 1: in the NFL looks like now. I think a large
Speaker 1: part of that is in place because of the new
Speaker 1: rules that were put in limiting practice time. You know,
Speaker 1: there was a period when the Packers and the Bengals
Speaker 1: were sort of looked at as the models for what
Speaker 1: to do. You draft and develop, you don't overspend, keep
Speaker 1: your guys, and that was the very sort of ideal
Speaker 1: of team building. But now, especially because with such a
Speaker 1: lack of practice time, a veteran who knows what he's
Speaker 1: doing out there is sort of more prize than he
Speaker 1: had been even a couple of years ago. Now, I
Speaker 1: don't think there's any doubt that you have to kind
Speaker 1: of change what the Bengals have been doing. So, you know,
Speaker 1: so on in terms of ignoring the free agent pool
Speaker 1: and spending more money to get guys who you can
Speaker 1: rely on and aren't going to need a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of coaching into your system and a whole bunch of
Speaker 1: coaching up just to get to a level of play
Speaker 1: where you want them to be, only to see them
Speaker 1: walk out the door, you know, as when they become
Speaker 1: free agents. So yes, I do think that they they
Speaker 1: learned maybe a year after the Packers, and the Packers
Speaker 1: obviously had Aaron Rodgers that helped them to go thirteen
Speaker 1: in three. But you know, I look for Cincinnati to
Speaker 1: improve just on that basis alone. I don't think there's
Speaker 1: any doubt about it. Their defense was as bad as
Speaker 1: could be last year. We have a saying called the
Speaker 1: plexiclass principal in the analytic world, which means that when
Speaker 1: you're really bad at anything or really good, you tend
Speaker 1: to regress toward the mean the following year. So that
Speaker 1: means that even by just mathematical principles, they should be
Speaker 1: better next year on defense than they were last year.
Speaker 1: I don't think there's any doubt that the wholesale changes
Speaker 1: will improve the team, especially the tackling that he obviously
Speaker 1: made a lot of these changes with the likes of
Speaker 1: Lamar Jackson and Nick Chubb in mind, and that seems
Speaker 1: to be a solid principle to go after. Running the
Speaker 1: football in the AFC North is more prized than it
Speaker 1: is elsewhere in the league, and the Bengals couldn't stop it.
Speaker 1: Last year, the top three players in the entire league
Speaker 1: who miss tackles by our charting, we're all Bengals. So
Speaker 1: I mean, that's right right there. It tells y'all need
Speaker 1: to go. And Jesse Vh and Seawan Williams are two
Speaker 1: of them. They're back. Nick Vigil was gone. But you know,
Speaker 1: certainly we'll see the secondary tackle better, take better angles,
Speaker 1: you know, use their space more to their advantage. And
Speaker 1: that's the kind of thing that you know, you really
Speaker 1: can't necessarily teach in the limited practice time anymore. You
Speaker 1: just have to have guys who can do it, and
Speaker 1: hopefully these are the right guys. Well, that's interesting because
Speaker 1: the three guys they signed his free agents to play
Speaker 1: in the secondary, Trey Waynes, Mackenzie, Alexander and von Bell
Speaker 1: were all known for their ability to stop the run.
Speaker 1: People worry about Trey Waynes. Is he truly a number
Speaker 1: one corner? Well, we'll see. But one thing he has
Speaker 1: proven is the willingness to get in there and tackle people,
Speaker 1: no question. I mean that that was an undoubted reason
Speaker 1: they got him. I mean, in terms of just pass
Speaker 1: covering numbers, him and Drake or Patrick are pretty much identical,
Speaker 1: but there's no question that Trey Waynes is much more
Speaker 1: willing tackler and not just do it, does it better,
Speaker 1: but gets his nose in there much more than Trade.
Speaker 1: Trade made a lot of business decisions out there. It
Speaker 1: seems like, and you know, does he have to be
Speaker 1: a number one corner. William Jackson still to me has
Speaker 1: the ability to be that number one corner. And when
Speaker 1: it came out that he played the entire season basically
Speaker 1: with a torn labor that sort of explained some of
Speaker 1: his kind of indifferent play from time to time. So
Speaker 1: I think that's and so the Bengals could definitely have improved,
Speaker 1: And obviously mentioned von bell An outstanding run stopper Mackenzie
Speaker 1: Alexander as well, although the car's Darky's Denard we should
Speaker 1: point out also had very good run stopping numbers and
Speaker 1: played injured and seems like he's possibly available for you
Speaker 1: know future is signing if it need be, could play
Speaker 1: that Chris Crocker role maybe down then down the fairway here.
Speaker 1: If he's still unsigned, he could come back and help out.
Speaker 1: He's said, certainly a good run support player. Yeah, for
Speaker 1: those who missed it, he did sign in the off
Speaker 1: season with Jacksonville, but then failed the physical. So he's
Speaker 1: still outright, Yeah, and I wouldn't be shocked if he
Speaker 1: came back, certainly as injuries mounter, you know, things happened
Speaker 1: in this bizarre offseason that we're in. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: he'd probably go with you know, I don't know if
Speaker 1: there's some behind the scenes issue that would prevent him
Speaker 1: from doing that, but to the outsider, it would seem
Speaker 1: like a natural fit for him to come back and play.
Speaker 1: We said, on a limited basis. We are chatting with
Speaker 1: Robert Weintrauba writes about the bank to Cincinnati Magazine Football
Speaker 1: outsiders and others. You mentioned reduced practice time and reduced
Speaker 1: practice contact. Well, this year, no OTAs, no mini camps
Speaker 1: in the off season for Joe Burrow, no private workouts
Speaker 1: with receivers. Now it looks like no preseason games. What
Speaker 1: do you think that's going to mean for Joe Burrow?
Speaker 1: I mean it can't be good, right obviously, I do
Speaker 1: think if you're talking and I have no mathematical precise
Speaker 1: basis to base this on, but if you're talking about
Speaker 1: any quarterback out there who you would like to see
Speaker 1: in the situation like that, certainly, Burrow looks like he's
Speaker 1: the mature, kind of go for a guy who you
Speaker 1: would handle something like that as best as possible. But
Speaker 1: obviously it's it's not an ideal situation. He's not really
Speaker 1: ever thrown to AJ Green, you know, in any real
Speaker 1: capacity until they show up a training camp, and who
Speaker 1: knows what that's going to look like. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: entirely possible. The first time he ever throws a past
Speaker 1: aj Green would be in the first game of this season,
Speaker 1: with no fans in the stands, and who knows what
Speaker 1: else is going on. So it's a bizarre situation obviously
Speaker 1: all around. But you know, if you're going to have
Speaker 1: a guy, one thing that set Joe apart from not
Speaker 1: just all his competitors this past year, but pretty much
Speaker 1: everybody we've seen in college football and the last decade
Speaker 1: two decades was his you know, Joe cool if you will,
Speaker 1: His incredible ability to just shut out everything around him,
Speaker 1: make plays and put his team in the best situations possible.
Speaker 1: And that's that's a maturity that's rare. He's a coaches kid.
Speaker 1: He knows what, he knows what's going on. He's been
Speaker 1: in touch with the Bengals coaching staff. This entire process,
Speaker 1: I feel like. So if anybody can make lemonade out
Speaker 1: of his particular lemon tree, you Joe Burrow. Robert. I
Speaker 1: mentioned that you wrote the Bengals season preview in the
Speaker 1: Football Outsiders Almanac this year, mine is on the way.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to get it. I courchesed it for
Speaker 1: the first time last year, and I can't stress enough
Speaker 1: to foot all fans how awesome it is. Not only
Speaker 1: is the data great, but the writing is entertaining. And
Speaker 1: you did not write last year's Bengals preview, but I
Speaker 1: want to read how it ended. This is slightly paraphrased
Speaker 1: final sentence. The next step is probably for Zach Taylor
Speaker 1: to determine what does and doesn't work over sixteen games,
Speaker 1: then let the roster blood letting begin. So that's basically
Speaker 1: exactly how it played out. So what's the next step
Speaker 1: this year? I think it's an obvious sort of you
Speaker 1: still see what you have and what's just put aside
Speaker 1: all the pandemic slash who knows what's going to happen
Speaker 1: issues of it aside. This approach you from a normal season.
Speaker 1: From Zach Taylor's point of view, and that would be
Speaker 1: still you know, see what works with Joe Burrow, See
Speaker 1: what he likes to do best, See how the new
Speaker 1: arrivals mesh in what capacity they work best. Maybe just
Speaker 1: some of his strategic tendencies which we saw this year
Speaker 1: really mirror what he learned under Sean McVeigh in Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: You know, a ton of three wide receiver one back sets.
Speaker 1: The Bengals led the league in three wide receiver sets
Speaker 1: and a lot of max protection. They were in the
Speaker 1: top five in max protection and maybe add some more
Speaker 1: play action into it, which they didn't really do last year,
Speaker 1: which was a bit of a surprise, because that's a
Speaker 1: McVeigh principles for sure, and to take you know, on
Speaker 1: both sides of the coin, on the defense, well and
Speaker 1: see what works best, and you know, hopefully you have
Speaker 1: a quarterback who can make these things work obviously and
Speaker 1: improve the off ends. Last year, it was just a
Speaker 1: battle just to get first downs and occasional points. Let's
Speaker 1: face it, they were such a struggle to move the
Speaker 1: ball at times that you almost couldn't do anything except
Speaker 1: for you know, kind of look towards what you're going
Speaker 1: to replace this year. You hope to see what, you know,
Speaker 1: what will be more of a fine tuning process, actually
Speaker 1: win some close games. Bengals were winless in one score games,
Speaker 1: and that's you know, unusual for any team that should
Speaker 1: bounce back a little bit to learn how to win,
Speaker 1: learn what works best, obviously improve, maybe even sniff a
Speaker 1: playoff first with the expanded playoffs. But listen, not dream
Speaker 1: too big, and then use the year three as the
Speaker 1: year and year two of Joe Burrow as your kind
Speaker 1: of go forward year. That's when your window really opens,
Speaker 1: and hopefully you'll have foundation that you can really build
Speaker 1: upon and you know, look for a championship level team
Speaker 1: for the immediate future. After that, there will be dozens
Speaker 1: of interesting statistical nuggets and this year's almanac. You've shared
Speaker 1: a few things so far in this conversation. As you
Speaker 1: looked at things about the individual players, did anything really
Speaker 1: catch your eye, maybe explaining why a guy might be
Speaker 1: better or worse than you thought, Well, what one is
Speaker 1: stowed out just because everybody else's numbers were so bad,
Speaker 1: we're so bad? Was Tyler Boyd's positive numbers and the
Speaker 1: way that he in the middle of the field was
Speaker 1: so effective and also just had third down and fourth
Speaker 1: down high efficiency rates that nobody else on the team
Speaker 1: came anywhere close to as you could imagine, And that
Speaker 1: speaks a lot for him just as a player and
Speaker 1: as a guy who can get things done even when
Speaker 1: he doesn't have the speed on the outside that you know,
Speaker 1: you would think he would require. And certainly when there
Speaker 1: is that kind of player with him, like a J. Green,
Speaker 1: you know, we forget Green and Boyd have hardly ever
Speaker 1: really played together, certainly since Boyd has gotten to be
Speaker 1: the tyler Boyd. We know, Green has been out so
Speaker 1: and John Ross has mostly been out as well, or
Speaker 1: in and out of the lineup anyway, so he has
Speaker 1: hardly ever had a real speed got to take the
Speaker 1: attention of the defense away from the middle of the
Speaker 1: field and away from him, so he has been double
Speaker 1: covered a lot, had a lot of even more than
Speaker 1: I thought, really a lot of attention paid to him,
Speaker 1: and still put up not just good counting numbers, but
Speaker 1: very good efficiency numbers. And that that was a bit
Speaker 1: of a surprise and more certainly more impressive to me
Speaker 1: than I thought it was going to be. You know,
Speaker 1: there are some other ones that are negative. I was
Speaker 1: still surprising how little Joe Mixon got used in the
Speaker 1: passing game. I think that's a real place where they
Speaker 1: could improve this year coming up. And as we saw
Speaker 1: in at LSU, Joe Burrow excelled as using the running
Speaker 1: backs in tight ends in you know, sort of his
Speaker 1: open sets and ways to exploit mismatches. So I think
Speaker 1: you'll see Mixon become much more of a passing threat,
Speaker 1: and he sort of has to be, especially if he
Speaker 1: wants to contract, which we all think he does. Robert,
Speaker 1: you made an interesting observation about T Higgins that I
Speaker 1: haven't seen anywhere else. Most people compare him to AJ Green,
Speaker 1: You say Carl Pickens, hopefully with a more cheerful disposition.
Speaker 1: No offense to Carl. I love pick They'll get me wrong,
Speaker 1: but great player, but interesting cat right. It wasn't necessarily
Speaker 1: the same guy you expected to be off the field, well,
Speaker 1: t Yeah, comparing him to AJ Green is really doing
Speaker 1: him a disservice, as it would be the most young receivers.
Speaker 1: AJ Green came in as an incredibly high end finished
Speaker 1: product and TJ. T Higgins is not a speed merchant,
Speaker 1: not nearly the speed merchant that AJ is and was.
Speaker 1: This is a guy who you know, is more about
Speaker 1: catch radius, incredible catch radius at making plays around the
Speaker 1: ball and surprisingly for his figure, you know, his frame
Speaker 1: is very large, but he does a great deal after
Speaker 1: the catch. He's very strong, has great balance. You'll see
Speaker 1: that he doesn't necessarily run away from guys when he
Speaker 1: has the ball in the open field. But he's very
Speaker 1: hard to break down. And that's a sort of an
Speaker 1: element that you haven't seen Cincinnati in a while. And
Speaker 1: I feel like that's a Pickins thing as well, both
Speaker 1: going up and getting the ball and then once he does,
Speaker 1: you know, making it hard for the defender to bring
Speaker 1: him down. AJ just runs either runs right away from
Speaker 1: guys or gets wide open right off the line. Neither
Speaker 1: of those things that really t Higgins is strong suits,
Speaker 1: but he does have plenty of others. And you know,
Speaker 1: if you have a guy he stel Earl play in college,
Speaker 1: he did a lot of back shoulder throws, a lot
Speaker 1: of throws that let both Justin Jefferson and Jamar Chase
Speaker 1: go up and get balls where only they could get it.
Speaker 1: That really plays right into higgins strength and I think
Speaker 1: you'll see a lot of that and since then this year,
Speaker 1: hopefully we're chatting with Robert Weintraub, who wrote the Bengals
Speaker 1: chapter and this year's Football Outsiders, Albanac linebacker play has
Speaker 1: been lousy in recent years between Josh Bynes and the
Speaker 1: three draft picks. What are your expectations for that position group?
Speaker 1: Not especially high just because they're all rookies, like you say,
Speaker 1: and Josh Bines will you know, decent players? Really just
Speaker 1: a journeyman if the most I think he brings is
Speaker 1: sort of a knowledge of the Ravens offense and maybe
Speaker 1: some of the moves that Lamar Jackson likes to use,
Speaker 1: and maybe he'll won't get faked out of his cleat
Speaker 1: so easily as some of the other Bengal linebackers had been. Certainly,
Speaker 1: you know, the likes of Logan Wilson and the other
Speaker 1: draftees that the pick this year have a great promise,
Speaker 1: you know, and they're going to be asked to do
Speaker 1: a lot the aspect of coming straight into the NFL,
Speaker 1: especially as we've been talking, without any of the offseason
Speaker 1: ability to learn the scheme and get on the field.
Speaker 1: That's asking a lot in their first season to really
Speaker 1: make an impact. That's certainly the impact that they were
Speaker 1: required or turn the position group around. I still think
Speaker 1: Germaine Pratt is the guy who will wind up being
Speaker 1: the leader of that position and being somebody that you
Speaker 1: know takes a step forward this year. Whether he turns
Speaker 1: into a real stud at the position remains to be seen,
Speaker 1: but I think he showed toward the end of the
Speaker 1: last year that he was making great strides, and maybe
Speaker 1: that's what you'll see from the other rookies as well,
Speaker 1: sort of a twelve ten to twelve game breaking in
Speaker 1: period and then that final month really makes steps, and
Speaker 1: who knows, by this time next year we can be
Speaker 1: looking at that position as one of strength, for which
Speaker 1: would be rare. Obviously, as he said, Cincinnati, we haven't
Speaker 1: had that in a long time. It has been a while.
Speaker 1: Here's a question where your head and your heart might
Speaker 1: have different answer. What would you like to see the
Speaker 1: Bengals do long term with aj Green and Joe Mixon? Yeah? Indeed,
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, just from a pure Bengal fan, you'd
Speaker 1: ever want to see guys like that ever leave. You
Speaker 1: want them to play their entire career in stripes and
Speaker 1: then go up into that non existent Ring of Fame
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame ring of honor, whatever you want to
Speaker 1: call it, and you know, just be lifetime Bengals realistically,
Speaker 1: and you know, sort of from a team building aspect,
Speaker 1: I think, certainly in Mixonon's case, you know, are one
Speaker 1: of our main principles in the analytic world as you
Speaker 1: never pay running backs. Certainly not the kind of contract
Speaker 1: he's going to command, I think, and I pointed this
Speaker 1: out before, maybe even in the omen Act, that there
Speaker 1: are some extenuating circumstances with Joe based on the controversy
Speaker 1: coming out of college and the fact that Bengals took
Speaker 1: a chance on him and both sides were very aptly
Speaker 1: rewarded for that. So there might be a little bit
Speaker 1: of residual good feeling which might bring his price down
Speaker 1: to somewhere where you might think, you know, sort of
Speaker 1: like would you Bernard When they gave him a second contract,
Speaker 1: it wasn't a bad move because of his age and
Speaker 1: because of the contract itself, it wasn't a crippling deal.
Speaker 1: And I don't know that Mixing has said at any
Speaker 1: point that he's willing to accept something like that, but
Speaker 1: if he did, you know, there are ways to sign him,
Speaker 1: and certainly in the medium term. That would not be
Speaker 1: a team crushing blow in terms of salary cap, but
Speaker 1: I'd be surprised if that happened and he just scot
Speaker 1: move on. Unfortunately, if it comes to that, I don't
Speaker 1: know that AJ Green is in quite the same situation.
Speaker 1: I think, even with his age and injury history, if
Speaker 1: he plays this season and shows the team and the
Speaker 1: league really that he can make it through an entire
Speaker 1: season unscathed, I think there'll be plenty of teams bidding
Speaker 1: for his services. But he seems to have indicated that
Speaker 1: Cincinnati would be the place he wants to go, and
Speaker 1: I think both sides would want to keep him about.
Speaker 1: You know, both sides want to keep him in Cincinnati.
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily it's hard to answer without seeing him
Speaker 1: played this year. If he's anything like the old AJ,
Speaker 1: and we have no reason to think he wouldn't be,
Speaker 1: then you know, I could see where they would give
Speaker 1: him extent him to at least a competitive deal, and
Speaker 1: that wouldn't be completely opposed to that necessarily from a
Speaker 1: pure team building analytical side, But a lot of that
Speaker 1: depends on how he looks to play. If he's really good,
Speaker 1: he might price himself entirely out of the Bengals price structure.
Speaker 1: You know, he sort of wished to hope for him
Speaker 1: as a Bengal fan, to have sort of a medium
Speaker 1: year which shows that he can stay healthy, but not
Speaker 1: great enough that he's you know, too expensive. I guess
Speaker 1: it's that's where the heart and the head collide, right
Speaker 1: in the medium. I want great year and pay the
Speaker 1: guy too. I mean, you know, and who knows what
Speaker 1: the future of the salary cap is. You hear a
Speaker 1: lot of doom and gloom, but then the owners always
Speaker 1: cry poor. There's always plenty of money when you need
Speaker 1: it to be spent in other areas. So you know,
Speaker 1: if anybody deserves a big contract over and above what
Speaker 1: you know, certainly other people will get. It's aj green.
Speaker 1: I don't think there's anything any doubt about that. A
Speaker 1: couple more questions for Robert Weintraub a great Twitter, followed
Speaker 1: by the way at Rob Wine w E I N
Speaker 1: has your hope been restored? I like to think he
Speaker 1: was never extinguished. That come on, I'm always the eternal
Speaker 1: out to this. Uh yeah, there's no question. Like I
Speaker 1: said at the beginning, just watching Joe Burrow play this
Speaker 1: entire year and knowing he was pretty much ticketed for
Speaker 1: since since about Thanksgiving, Uh, it's been you know, it's
Speaker 1: been at full full flame, you know for a while now.
Speaker 1: Pandemic be damned. I definitely think you know that the
Speaker 1: franchise quarterback, as we all know, you know, that's the
Speaker 1: that's the tide that lifts all boats, right, I mean everything,
Speaker 1: not just you play on the field. He'll he'll improve
Speaker 1: the defense because the offense is better. Who will make
Speaker 1: the coaching staff look better? And he might even you know,
Speaker 1: keep the team in Cincinnati when it's all done. I
Speaker 1: don't want to put too much on the guy's shoulders,
Speaker 1: but you know, there's a lot of talk about that.
Speaker 1: You know, if the team continues down the wrong path,
Speaker 1: who knows what the future will hold in Maybe there's
Speaker 1: with the stadium lease issue up ahead. Nobody really knows.
Speaker 1: The team is influx. And the one thing that certainly
Speaker 1: takes that, you know, takes that out of play and
Speaker 1: brings the team into the pride of the civic heart,
Speaker 1: so to speak, would be a great quarterback and the
Speaker 1: guy who can look up to you and certainly looks
Speaker 1: like Joe has everything in that in his positive categories
Speaker 1: to make that happen, just needs to do it on
Speaker 1: the field. And you know, I'm certainly I'm certainly optimistic.
Speaker 1: I'm cautiously optimistic, I guess you'd say, because I'm a
Speaker 1: Bengals fan and my hope has been obliterated so often
Speaker 1: over these years. But at this point I'm definitely optimistic.
Speaker 1: And that leads to the final question, how did a
Speaker 1: kid from New York State becomes such a diehard Bengals fan? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I got no business being a Bengal fan, that's true.
Speaker 1: And if I become a Jets or Giants fan like
Speaker 1: everybody else in my neighborhood, I just would have saved
Speaker 1: myself a lot of psychic anguish over the years. I
Speaker 1: suppose maybe maybe Giants. I don't know about Jets. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a good point, and I think what to answer
Speaker 1: the question, I'm pretty sure they were the Bengals were
Speaker 1: playing the Jets. You know, I was five, six years
Speaker 1: old something like that, and you know, you drop in
Speaker 1: front of the TV and you watch the game, and
Speaker 1: obviously the Bengals won that day, or maybe their uniforms
Speaker 1: look cool. I'm not sure, but whatever alchemy goes on
Speaker 1: in the little kid's mind. You know, I just said, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's my team, and uh, you know, I'm stuck to
Speaker 1: it at plenty of opportunities as supposed to change. But
Speaker 1: you know you can't do that and be a real fan, right,
Speaker 1: So I've stuck with the Bengals through thick and mostly
Speaker 1: thin over these many many years now, and hopefully some
Speaker 1: of that, some of that loyalty will be rewarded with
Speaker 1: the dawn of a new era, the Joe Burrow era.
Speaker 1: Your patients will be rewarded thanks to the quarterback with
Speaker 1: awesomeness oozing out of every pore. Indeed myself. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: have been chatting with Robert Weintraub, who writes about the
Speaker 1: Bengals for Cincinnati Magazine and the website in addition to
Speaker 1: writing for Football Outsiders. Plus, you are an author of
Speaker 1: several books, and you have a new one out now.
Speaker 1: Tell us about it. Yeah. Thanks. It's called The Divine
Speaker 1: Miss Marble. It's about a woman named Alice Marble, who,
Speaker 1: in addition to being the greatest female tennis player the
Speaker 1: pre war era, having her illustrious career ended by World
Speaker 1: War Two, also excelled in a number of off the
Speaker 1: courts areas, including so she says, and the heart of
Speaker 1: the book is really a detective story, an espionage mission
Speaker 1: unless she went on during World War Two and just
Speaker 1: claimed that she was shot during and had all kinds
Speaker 1: of daring do. And I follow her path down a
Speaker 1: lot of unusual and dark paths to ferret out her story,
Speaker 1: and it's really quite fascinating. She's a mysterious and amazing woman,
Speaker 1: even putting all that mystery aside, and somebody who's kind
Speaker 1: of been forgotten over the years because of just time
Speaker 1: in sports history and because of her her career was interrupted.
Speaker 1: But she's an amazing subject and I hope everybody checks
Speaker 1: it out. The Divine Miss Marble is the name of
Speaker 1: the book, and you can get it you know, Amazon, Penguin, Random,
Speaker 1: random House dot com, or anywhere bookstores are open these days,
Speaker 1: which hopefully is more and more places as we as
Speaker 1: we get healthier. Well, let's hope sounds like she had
Speaker 1: some awesomeness oozing out of her stores as well. The Female, Yes,
Speaker 1: sounds like a great read. Again. I can't wait to
Speaker 1: get my Football Outsiders Almanac, and I can't recommend purchasing
Speaker 1: that more highly to football fans. If you haven't done
Speaker 1: it before, please do it. It's it's great and we
Speaker 1: all have time to read right now, so this is
Speaker 1: the perfect time to purchase one. Robert, this has been great.
Speaker 1: Hopefully we'll do it again down the road, and the
Speaker 1: next time we do, hopefully we'll be talking about the
Speaker 1: emerging Bengals under the leadership of Joe Burrow, indeed six
Speaker 1: and two and looking for the playoffs. That would be nice. Yes,
Speaker 1: any time. Damp Football Outsiders Almanac isn't cheap. The printed
Speaker 1: version is about fifty bucks, or you can download it
Speaker 1: for thirty five, but I think it's worth it and
Speaker 1: you can get more information at Football Outsiders dot com.
Speaker 1: Before we get to our next conversation, here's a quick
Speaker 1: reminder that you can take your Bengals pride to the
Speaker 1: next level in twenty twenty with an official Bengals fan
Speaker 1: package from Prime Sport. It's been a few weeks since
Speaker 1: we've heard from my broadcast partner Dave Lapham on the podcast.
Speaker 1: He went on vacation early in the month and I
Speaker 1: was out of town last week, but we got together
Speaker 1: this week to discuss the start of training camp and
Speaker 1: to answer the ask lap questions that you submitted on Twitter. Lap.
Speaker 1: I want to start with another never doubt Dave Lapham.
Speaker 1: Lesson for more than a month on this podcast, you
Speaker 1: have talked about the possibility of having a reduced number
Speaker 1: of players in training camps under these circumstances, and I
Speaker 1: never said it to you, but in my mind I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: no way, the players will never allow it. Well, sure enough,
Speaker 1: Adam Schefter reported earlier this week the teams will likely
Speaker 1: have eighty players on the roster instead of the usual ninety.
Speaker 1: Once again, never doubt, Dave Lapham. Who does this help?
Speaker 1: Who does it hurt? Well, it hurts all the college
Speaker 1: free agents, late round picks that you know are going
Speaker 1: to be using preseason games to make their mark a
Speaker 1: little bit. A lot of times you can evaluate players
Speaker 1: in certain drills in practice, and then all you have
Speaker 1: to do in the game is see, okay, can he
Speaker 1: finish but he's putting himself in great position. Now can
Speaker 1: he bring the guy to the ground? You know? And
Speaker 1: then you see in the games if in fact he
Speaker 1: can do all phases of it, and you make a
Speaker 1: determination if a guy makes the team or not. Without that,
Speaker 1: it's it's very, very difficult for you know, the late
Speaker 1: round picks and the college free agents to make the
Speaker 1: football team. I mean, you know, unless you're a guy
Speaker 1: like Tim Crummer, who the very first drill is like whoa,
Speaker 1: I mean this guy, how did he last? Still the
Speaker 1: tenth round? Everybody missed on this dude. Um, those those
Speaker 1: are kind of rare. A lot of times you just
Speaker 1: you need reps, you need opportunities to prove yourself. So
Speaker 1: it really hurts hurts that level of player. What it
Speaker 1: helps is the veteran who's hanging on, you know, the
Speaker 1: guy that maybe can do a few things, can provide
Speaker 1: back up in a few different a couple of different
Speaker 1: position areas, and uh, you know, can still you know,
Speaker 1: be a factor in the in the room as such
Speaker 1: in terms of grooming some younger guys. And uh, you know,
Speaker 1: he's battling for the last year or two of his
Speaker 1: career against a guy who you know doesn't get the
Speaker 1: opportunity to show or there are a fewer numbers of
Speaker 1: guys going against him to take that job. It just
Speaker 1: it just makes it makes life a little bit better
Speaker 1: for those guys. So the Union probably said, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: we'll take We'll take that that's that's something we'll give on.
Speaker 1: You know, we'll take that ten fewer players because we're
Speaker 1: protecting our guys that are already union members. We're protecting
Speaker 1: their job even more so. So you do feel for
Speaker 1: the guys that and there's ten per team that's und
Speaker 1: twenty guys. Out of three hundred twenty guys you're probably
Speaker 1: gonna get thirty or so that could really make a team,
Speaker 1: make an impact, have have a career, and those guys
Speaker 1: you feel really bad for. This is our first conversation
Speaker 1: since AJ Green signed his franchise tag tender and then
Speaker 1: spoke to reporters. You asked him several questions during that
Speaker 1: zoom call. What stood out the fact that he is,
Speaker 1: in my mind, cut from the same cloth as Anthony Munios.
Speaker 1: He might be the greatest human being, you know, in
Speaker 1: terms of a football player, not just not just a
Speaker 1: great player, I mean a world class player, but as
Speaker 1: well has everything else, I mean everything you could ask for.
Speaker 1: Just a tremendous human being, a great leader of men.
Speaker 1: I mean, the team is going to be better for
Speaker 1: having him on the practice field every day. I've said
Speaker 1: it many times, you know, and even in the offseason.
Speaker 1: You know, when I work out with Anthony, I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh man, this guy, the great ones, Anthony Minos, James Brooks,
Speaker 1: they worked harder than anybody. So it's like, look what
Speaker 1: Anthony's doing, Look what Jab's doing. Am I doing enough?
Speaker 1: You know? And that's the same with aj Green. Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, these young players. Look what he j Green's
Speaker 1: doing in practice. Look what he does, you know, getting
Speaker 1: ready for workouts. Am I doing enough? And it just
Speaker 1: raises the boat, you know. So he just makes he
Speaker 1: makes the football team better in obvious ways, you know,
Speaker 1: on the field, tilting coverage, defenses, having to do accompliment
Speaker 1: and all that. But the ripple effect all the way
Speaker 1: down to you know, how he takes care of his
Speaker 1: body for nutrition wise, guys, see how he works out,
Speaker 1: all the little things. I mean, he just he upgrades
Speaker 1: the organization every way it can be upgraded. And most importantly,
Speaker 1: what kind of guy he is, you know, the human
Speaker 1: being that he is. He's such a plus to a
Speaker 1: locker room. Speaking of Anthony Milius, Johnny Unitis ended his
Speaker 1: career with the Chargers, Emmett Smith with the Cardinals, Joe
Speaker 1: nath with the Rams, Anthony Munier has played in preseason
Speaker 1: games for the Bucks. Thankfully, he never played in a
Speaker 1: regular season game in that uniform. So here's my question
Speaker 1: prediction time. Will AJ Green end his career with the
Speaker 1: Bengals or will he eventually wear another uniform? You know,
Speaker 1: I asked him that very question is why is it,
Speaker 1: why is this so important for you to finish, you know,
Speaker 1: as a Cincinnati Bengal And his answer was, executy to
Speaker 1: expect from AJ Green. That's the team that took the
Speaker 1: chance to me. That's the team that picked me. That's
Speaker 1: the team that said we want you. And a guy
Speaker 1: like him, with the character that he has, all things
Speaker 1: being equal, I think he is going to stay with
Speaker 1: that football team. So it would not shock me at
Speaker 1: all if AJ Green takes every single snap of his
Speaker 1: professional career as a Cincinnati Bengal, because you know, I
Speaker 1: mean the organization obviously, everything we're talking about with AJ Green,
Speaker 1: they see it in spades every single day. So I mean,
Speaker 1: this is like you know, parting with the biggest diamond
Speaker 1: you can mine in a minefield in Africa, uh In
Speaker 1: saying that I'm done with that and I'm going to
Speaker 1: move on to another one. I think I'll keep that one,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, I don't know. I don't I
Speaker 1: think I'll just make sure that that I wear that
Speaker 1: until he cracks or whatever happens to Diamonds. I don't
Speaker 1: know what happens to him, but I mean A J
Speaker 1: and I and I really do think that he does.
Speaker 1: He says he feels like he has four years left.
Speaker 1: And we've talked about it a few times. Dan seeing
Speaker 1: him up there in Cleveland on the field before the game,
Speaker 1: I'm like, heys, and he said it. I'm not the fastest,
Speaker 1: but man, I'm smooth. I'm like, that's part he is
Speaker 1: so sinking his hips, getting in and out of cuts.
Speaker 1: At a guy six foot four looking like a guy
Speaker 1: five foot four, The way he can sink his hips
Speaker 1: and getting it out is remarkable. And that's what makes
Speaker 1: you know great receivers um. You know Fred Bulitnikoff, Um,
Speaker 1: guys like you know of that of that type, Steve Largent,
Speaker 1: they weren't going to burn, but they he just got
Speaker 1: in and out of cuts. I mean, they changed direction.
Speaker 1: They had that type of thing, uh in their game,
Speaker 1: and we're always open and that's what That's what AJ's got.
Speaker 1: On top of leaping ability hands. And he's plenty fast too.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not going to say that. Uh you know,
Speaker 1: A two was being very humble as he always is. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: it may not be that you're pretty fast, man. You
Speaker 1: can run. You can run. You may not be world class,
Speaker 1: but you can run, man. And if he stays healthy
Speaker 1: this year and plays the way that Aj Green has
Speaker 1: always played when healthy, I personally think the Bengals would
Speaker 1: pay him as much as any other team in the
Speaker 1: league would pay him. I agree with you. I agree
Speaker 1: with you, Dan, I mean I think that, and I
Speaker 1: think aj Aj seems to me to be the kind
Speaker 1: of guy that if he feels like he's been treated
Speaker 1: fairly and he knows has a good feeling about his
Speaker 1: environment and the surroundings and everything. Because Aj is not
Speaker 1: one of these guys that you know as a boisterous,
Speaker 1: you know, outgoing coming to locker room. It's all about me,
Speaker 1: me me, Hey, I'm Aj Green here, I'm He'd rather
Speaker 1: be a guy just you know, just blending in working
Speaker 1: as you know, just just blend in with the crowd
Speaker 1: of the locker room. And I think if he feels
Speaker 1: good about Zach Taylor, the coaching staff, his teammates Joe Burrow,
Speaker 1: I think he stays and I can see it definitely happened.
Speaker 1: The owners and players are still negotiating details for training
Speaker 1: camp in the upcoming season. The players pushed for no
Speaker 1: preseason games. It looks like they're going to get their wish.
Speaker 1: So how huge of a problem is that for a
Speaker 1: rookie quarterback like Joe Burrow. You know, it's it's I
Speaker 1: think it's gotta it's gotta be tough because I'm thinking
Speaker 1: as an offensive lineman, no preseason games plum. Playing in
Speaker 1: a regular season game without any preseason steps whatsoever, is
Speaker 1: like going into the opening night of a play without
Speaker 1: any dress rehearsal. You know, it's like, hey, you feel
Speaker 1: a little naked. You know, it's like not quite sure
Speaker 1: and maybe not maybe you're totally sure about what you're
Speaker 1: supposed to do, but how you're supposed to do it
Speaker 1: in concert with others, you know, when those stunts happen
Speaker 1: and all those kind of things that you need to
Speaker 1: take game reps to get a feel for and make
Speaker 1: sure that you are all on the same page and
Speaker 1: everything's locked up, everything's buttoned up. So there's still a
Speaker 1: little uncertainty you know, I think I know how it's
Speaker 1: going to flow, but I'm not really totally sure how
Speaker 1: it's going to flow. And I think the level of
Speaker 1: play in the first a few games are going to
Speaker 1: be more like preseason, you know. I think there's going
Speaker 1: to be tackling issues. There's tackling issues anyway, because people
Speaker 1: don't tackle anymore in practice, but I think it's going
Speaker 1: to be even more so. And I think, you know,
Speaker 1: I think some of the pass protection pickups of twists
Speaker 1: and stunts is going to be spotty, you know. And
Speaker 1: and a young player like like Joe Burrow with AJ Green,
Speaker 1: for example, Andy Dalton and aj Green had built up
Speaker 1: such a report they needed. Andy Dalton knew where AJ
Speaker 1: Green wanted the football on different routes. He wants it here,
Speaker 1: he wants it back shoulder, and he wants to he
Speaker 1: wants him to be lit here. He wants to be
Speaker 1: able to have the ball out in front of him.
Speaker 1: So so he all that stuff only happens by taking
Speaker 1: rep in specifically game reps too, having some sort of
Speaker 1: an idea. So I think there's going to be a
Speaker 1: little bit of an impact. But I am a firm
Speaker 1: believer in what I'm hearing about Joe Burrow that that
Speaker 1: he is so mature. You know, he's he's he's older
Speaker 1: than Mahomes, you know, I mean, he's older than Lamar Jackson.
Speaker 1: I mean he's a mature guy and U and I
Speaker 1: you know, in his ability to pick up and understand offense,
Speaker 1: I don't doubt any of that, but the nuances of
Speaker 1: fine tuning, you know, the reps of where different receivers
Speaker 1: want footballs, and he's really good with that. He didn't
Speaker 1: put the ball the same place to Jeffers and he
Speaker 1: did the Mosses tight end. I mean, he had he
Speaker 1: had an idea of exactly where those guys wanted it.
Speaker 1: And and you know, after doing it for so many reps,
Speaker 1: the receivers know where the quarterback expect them to be,
Speaker 1: and the quarterback feels the receiver's going to be there,
Speaker 1: and he's gonna put the ball exactly where you know
Speaker 1: that's supposed to be, and that's that's not going to
Speaker 1: necessarily be there right away if it is. Man, he's
Speaker 1: a magician. He's Joe Burrows, like Joe Burrows more than
Speaker 1: a human being. And that's for she's a superhero. On
Speaker 1: the one hand, I say to myself, college football teams
Speaker 1: don't get preseason games. They have to be ready to
Speaker 1: go right away. On the other hand, the Bengals don't
Speaker 1: get the opportunity to schedule an FCS opponent. Yeah, that's true,
Speaker 1: That's very true. And and I think, you know, college,
Speaker 1: they'll hit a little more. I mean, in the NFL,
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, they're already they're already concerned now
Speaker 1: with how many padded practices are they going to be
Speaker 1: with respect to no preseason games, we know there's only
Speaker 1: seventeen during the course of the entire season, you know,
Speaker 1: one a week. Maybe it's even less than that. So
Speaker 1: I don't know how many padded practices are going to
Speaker 1: allow in this negotiated unusual You know, the year twenty
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, you think perfect vision, Well, twenty twenty is
Speaker 1: nothing but blurry. There's no perfect about this twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: This twenty twenty is all man, it's all a fog
Speaker 1: for everybody. So you don't know what to expect. So
Speaker 1: how many padded actuses are you're going to have to
Speaker 1: be able to do some of the things we're talking
Speaker 1: about in terms of timing things full speed now there's
Speaker 1: not going to be tackling, but you know the one
Speaker 1: on ones, all of that sort of thing, beating, beating
Speaker 1: a defensive back. You know, the receivers with their footwork
Speaker 1: beating defensive backs in and how it cuts on rounds
Speaker 1: like we're talking about defensive backs, you know, flipping their
Speaker 1: hips like we're all those kind of things. And you know,
Speaker 1: the big worry for me, dan is is they start
Speaker 1: playing regular season games and you know you're not in
Speaker 1: as good a football shape as you would have been
Speaker 1: if you want through training camp to pushing and pulling
Speaker 1: all the time. When you do have padded practices, I mean,
Speaker 1: you can lift weights and run until you're blue in
Speaker 1: the face, But until you get out there and hit push,
Speaker 1: pull all the tenons, ligaments, all the attachments, that's where
Speaker 1: the soreness comes. And man, I'm telling you, the first
Speaker 1: night of after live contact to training camp wake up
Speaker 1: the next morning every year is like rig and Morris
Speaker 1: get out of bed like whoa, Oh, well that's football,
Speaker 1: you know, and now you got to get into football shape.
Speaker 1: So if you get into football shape and then the
Speaker 1: season stops were for or whatever, and you get out
Speaker 1: of football shape, then how are you going to get
Speaker 1: back into football shape if they restarted? And that's a
Speaker 1: concern to me in terms of injuries and all that
Speaker 1: sort of thing that they're talking about. And to me,
Speaker 1: it's almost like a delicate balancing act. You don't want
Speaker 1: to overhit because of player safety, but you don't want
Speaker 1: to have guys go in not ready to hit in
Speaker 1: terms of player safety. Where is that balance? Where is
Speaker 1: that balance of justice there? You know? I mean, that's
Speaker 1: the big deal in NFL news this week, the Titans
Speaker 1: gave Derek Henry a four year, fifty million dollar contract extension.
Speaker 1: They can get out of it after a couple of
Speaker 1: years with minimal salary cap damage. But in any case,
Speaker 1: would you give Joe Mixon a similar deal? Yes? I would.
Speaker 1: I'd give Joe Mixon a similar deal, and you know
Speaker 1: Joe might be looking for more than that. But I
Speaker 1: mean to me, you know, when accaffrey signed, it was like, uh, man,
Speaker 1: that's who when is a running back? And assign and
Speaker 1: what is he going to sign for? And then it
Speaker 1: came back into a more of a realistic standpoint. But
Speaker 1: because McCaffrey's different, I mean, coming out of Stanford was
Speaker 1: like half the half the league was thinking running back,
Speaker 1: half the league was thinking wide receiver. I mean, he's
Speaker 1: that gifted in both of those scenarios, and so he's
Speaker 1: an unusual guy. He's an exception of the rule. I
Speaker 1: would I would. I mean, Joe obviously was a huge,
Speaker 1: huge factor in the second half of the season last year.
Speaker 1: I mean, without Aja around and you know, not having
Speaker 1: the passing attack they had, and knowing that Joe Joe
Speaker 1: Mixon was going to run the football, he still was
Speaker 1: one of the top rushers in the National Football League
Speaker 1: the last eight games of the season. So he's obviously
Speaker 1: he's a guy that he's a lightning rod for the
Speaker 1: rest of the team. Guys gravitate toward him. They feed
Speaker 1: off his energy. He provides a lot of energy. He's
Speaker 1: a hell of a player. I would, I'd think him
Speaker 1: if I could. There are only five running backs right
Speaker 1: now making more than ten million a year. McCaffrey's deal
Speaker 1: is sixteen million a year, as akl Elliot at fifteen,
Speaker 1: Leveon Bell thirteen point one two five, David Johnson thirteen.
Speaker 1: That one hasn't worked out very well, and now Henry
Speaker 1: twelve point five. That's it. There's nobody between ten and
Speaker 1: Henry's twelve point five. So if you could get Mixon,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, somewhere in that range ten million to
Speaker 1: twelve point five for four years, yeah, I think that's fair.
Speaker 1: I do. I agree with you. And uh, you know,
Speaker 1: you look at it, um, Yeah, Johnson obviously that that
Speaker 1: didn't did not work out at all. Levy on Bell.
Speaker 1: You know, the big money hasn't started to pay dividends
Speaker 1: yet either. So you look at those and you say,
Speaker 1: you know, I wonder, I just think McCaffrey's in a
Speaker 1: different category, and so's so's Henry. I mean, god, he's
Speaker 1: you know, he's a monster. I mean that guy's that
Speaker 1: guys are physical freak to be able to do the
Speaker 1: things that he can do at his size, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, just his footspeed and his ability to to
Speaker 1: you know, make people miss when he does. And you know,
Speaker 1: he's he's a he's a different breed of cat. But
Speaker 1: I do think Joe Mixon is in the upper tier
Speaker 1: of complete backs in the National Football League. I mean,
Speaker 1: Joe won't hesitate to bloody his nose, you know, in
Speaker 1: past protection either. I mean, he's a complete back for sure.
Speaker 1: So just like Batman. We took a gigantic spotlight put
Speaker 1: the Bengals logo into the Cincinnati sky and that was
Speaker 1: the signal for ask lap questions on Twitter. So we've
Speaker 1: got a bunch from people. Here goes. Randy is up first,
Speaker 1: with no preseason game games. What's the over under on
Speaker 1: early season injuries? And rather than trying to come up
Speaker 1: with some sort of number for an over under, just
Speaker 1: in general terms, do you expect a big increase in injuries?
Speaker 1: That's that's a big That's an interesting question because that's
Speaker 1: what I was talking about with I can understand how
Speaker 1: guys want to You have to ramp into it. There's
Speaker 1: not going to be anything but lifting and conditioning initially
Speaker 1: and then unpadded practices and then a few padded practices
Speaker 1: down the stretch. And if you're not, if you have
Speaker 1: not had at least in preseason game, no matter when
Speaker 1: it is, you know the preseason game. Number three is
Speaker 1: one the veterans usually get the most snaps and they
Speaker 1: go through that stiffness thing. I was talking about, that
Speaker 1: football getting in football shape kind of thing. And you
Speaker 1: still have time to get yourself ready for that for
Speaker 1: that opener. I don't know I just I wonder. I
Speaker 1: can see a lot of guys after the first game
Speaker 1: of the season waking up on Monday morning going, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I've never felt like this. And the Bengals
Speaker 1: play on Thursday in a week two, Yeah, they get
Speaker 1: the short week. They got Cleveland, um, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's if you're an offensive lineman working against the
Speaker 1: Chargers have a pretty good physical defense up front, and
Speaker 1: because sometimes you play against teams and their finesse teams,
Speaker 1: but you know, it's it's relative. It's still there's still
Speaker 1: some physicality, but some are just brutes, you know, some
Speaker 1: just try to beat you up. Chargers have have some
Speaker 1: force in their front seven. And you wake up on
Speaker 1: Monday morning and it's like going to play Thursday night.
Speaker 1: I'm thirty years I feel a little stiff. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be able to play Thursday night. I mean, those kind
Speaker 1: of things start to start to be a little bit
Speaker 1: of a factor. We've talked about it before. You know,
Speaker 1: when I was twenty two or twenty three, I could
Speaker 1: play Sunday. I felt like I'd played on Tuesday or Wednesday.
Speaker 1: You know, once I got in football shape, you hit
Speaker 1: twenty eight, thirty thirty one, thirty two. It's it's a
Speaker 1: little bit different. It's like, yeah, I need all those days.
Speaker 1: I don't Thursday night football, Wow, who Monday night football
Speaker 1: is great, you get that expert, then you got the
Speaker 1: short week after Monday night football. I don't really like
Speaker 1: that short week. So yeah, those are all those are
Speaker 1: all big factors, and I do think that that's going
Speaker 1: to be an issue. It's going to be very interesting
Speaker 1: how they handle Fortunately, it's Cleveland, so they have a
Speaker 1: lot of knowledge of some of the personal but they've
Speaker 1: changed a lot. They have a new head coach, they
Speaker 1: have a new offensive system, they have a new this
Speaker 1: knew that, So they have some sort of familiarity with
Speaker 1: the Cleveland Browns, but not as much as they have
Speaker 1: another year's for a short week, So it's going to
Speaker 1: be very interesting how they handle practice. I think a
Speaker 1: lot of that week is going to be mental and
Speaker 1: a lot less of its physical. How many games did
Speaker 1: you play in nineteen eighty three? Played sixteen games with
Speaker 1: the Bengals, we played oh No, and then four preseason games,
Speaker 1: so I played twenty twenty games and then played twenty
Speaker 1: more with the New Jersey Generals and then two in
Speaker 1: the posted forty two games, forty two football games in
Speaker 1: one calendar year, less than a calendar year, in less
Speaker 1: than a calendar year, and you still have all your marbles.
Speaker 1: And I was. I was thirty two coming home, thirty
Speaker 1: three years old. I remember when I was done with
Speaker 1: that season with the New Jersey Generals. I went to
Speaker 1: Cape Cod and laid in the ocean and I laid
Speaker 1: their light. It was a natural um like hot not
Speaker 1: hot tub, but just the waves, you know, just maybe
Speaker 1: soak a little bit in salt water with the waves.
Speaker 1: And man, I was, I was struggling. I mean, I'd
Speaker 1: go home and lay down after practice, could barely get
Speaker 1: up and shuffle the table and eat dinner. And the
Speaker 1: trainers will give me Enderson, which is what they give
Speaker 1: horses at the racetrack for swelling or inflammation. Mike, are
Speaker 1: you sure, Yeah, yeah, these would be all right. I'm
Speaker 1: on these little red pills Enderson to make sure I
Speaker 1: could play on the following uh on the following Sunday.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that was so brutal. Here's a Dave
Speaker 1: lap I'm interview from the end of the nineteen eighty
Speaker 1: three season. From that Enderson of course, of course, next
Speaker 1: question comes from Jim. I think I know the answer
Speaker 1: to this one. Jim asks, would it be best to
Speaker 1: sign or trade for a veteran quarterback and let Joe
Speaker 1: Burrow sit since this is the worst season to start
Speaker 1: a rookie quarterback in history? You know, it's it's interesting.
Speaker 1: I mean, there is there is you could you could
Speaker 1: probably say that it might be the worst season to
Speaker 1: start a rookie quarterback in NFL history, But I don't think.
Speaker 1: I don't think i'd trade for a veteran quarterback too.
Speaker 1: I really have a belief that mentally he's going to
Speaker 1: be okay if you if you trade for a veteran quarterback, Honestly,
Speaker 1: I don't think he'll have obviously reps experience. But Joe
Speaker 1: Burrow I think understands football to the point that just
Speaker 1: about any veteran quarterback in the league. So Joe Burrow
Speaker 1: may not have the reps like we're talking about Joe
Speaker 1: Green and others, but no either with the guy that
Speaker 1: he trade for, I mean, he would have no no prior,
Speaker 1: you know, workout or anything, any kind of timing, any
Speaker 1: kind of This is this is exactly where aj Green,
Speaker 1: you know, wants the football. He doesn't have any of
Speaker 1: that either, So, um, you know, I'm not sure. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure I would necessarily go that route. I think
Speaker 1: Philip Rivers obviously he knows what to expect more than
Speaker 1: more than Joe Joe does. But I mean he's in
Speaker 1: a whole new situation with you, with the Indianapolis Colts.
Speaker 1: He hasn't thrown in any of those guys. He and
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow will be on the exact same starting point
Speaker 1: in terms of what kind of reps every every quarterback
Speaker 1: in the league other than you know, Drew Brees. That's
Speaker 1: why you know, the New Orleans Saints said, fine, you know,
Speaker 1: no matter what the leagu he says, we'll see a
Speaker 1: training camp. They got Drew Brees, they get all these
Speaker 1: weapons that he's thrown to. Those guys are so far
Speaker 1: ahead of the curve on veterans and rookie quarterbacks that
Speaker 1: are with new teams. That's it's it's a big, big issue.
Speaker 1: There's no doubt. Next question from doctor who Day, why
Speaker 1: are players in favor of no preseason games? You know,
Speaker 1: I think they just the injury risk, you know, I
Speaker 1: think they just uh, I think players would love to
Speaker 1: see preseason games gone anyway, and players don't really play
Speaker 1: all that much. Veteran players don't play all that much
Speaker 1: in the preseason obviously. Preseason games are intended more for
Speaker 1: determining the last ten players on your roster and practice
Speaker 1: squads and all those sort of things. It's player evaluation
Speaker 1: of the back end of that. That's why there's ninety players.
Speaker 1: They want to bring as many as they possibly can
Speaker 1: and to have options to see what they can to
Speaker 1: fill out their roster and their practice squad. So players
Speaker 1: think any and I want to avoid injury, they will play.
Speaker 1: Usually in preseason game number three, they'll play a half,
Speaker 1: cool down, warm back up, play a series in the
Speaker 1: third quarter, and get that part of it under their belts.
Speaker 1: And that's another thing that they're not going to have
Speaker 1: going into that first week. Going there at halftime, cool down,
Speaker 1: warm back up, go out there for the second half.
Speaker 1: Be the first time you're doing that and in quite
Speaker 1: a while. So the players. But to me, it's kind
Speaker 1: of foolhardy because now with salary cap this year, salary
Speaker 1: caps one hundred ninety eight million dollars preseason with no
Speaker 1: preseason games next year, salary cap is already going to
Speaker 1: be affected because players say, oh, I only get like
Speaker 1: fifteen hundred bucks a week to play in the preseason,
Speaker 1: and I don't start getting paid until the regular season.
Speaker 1: Those big paychecks will come in. So a fifteen hundred
Speaker 1: dollars paycheck could become a thirty five thousand dollars paycheck
Speaker 1: once the regular season starts for some of these guys.
Speaker 1: But in terms of salary cap, that is part of
Speaker 1: the salary cap. That is that money that that revenue
Speaker 1: is split the following year in the salary cap. So
Speaker 1: the veteran players have to realize that's something that's not
Speaker 1: going to be there. I mean, people are projecting the
Speaker 1: salary cap could be down fifty sixty million bucks next
Speaker 1: year from one hundred ninety eight to one hundred and
Speaker 1: thirty eight million bucks, and not having a preseason with
Speaker 1: I mean, the TV revenue is obviously not as big
Speaker 1: as it is in a regular season, but there's there's tickets,
Speaker 1: there's concessions, there's all those sort of things, and the
Speaker 1: owners aren't paying out big bucks in terms of the
Speaker 1: to the players, but that money gets split, the revenue
Speaker 1: gets split for that that following year's salary cap, so
Speaker 1: there won't be any any preseason revenue coming up in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. They're going to have to spread that
Speaker 1: salary cap damage out over the course of several years,
Speaker 1: don't you think, because teams aren't just going to say,
Speaker 1: all right, we got to lop fifty million dollars worth
Speaker 1: the players off the roster. I don't see that happen.
Speaker 1: How would you like to be Kansas City with them
Speaker 1: home signing, you know, and then Chris Jones these big contracts,
Speaker 1: you know, anybody that in this offseason? How about Miles
Speaker 1: Garrett up in Cleveland? You kidding me, you know, give
Speaker 1: him that kind of money and then all of us.
Speaker 1: Maybe next year's cap is going to take a major
Speaker 1: hit if they don't pro rate it like you're talking about.
Speaker 1: It's like, wow, jeez, maybe we shouldn't. Maybe maybe we
Speaker 1: should have thought twice about the timing of this. You know,
Speaker 1: maybe we should have waited a little a little while longer.
Speaker 1: But you know, because everybody's doing these deals with the perception,
Speaker 1: and you know, well thought out perception that the Caps
Speaker 1: are going to do nothing but go up. Well, coronavirus said,
Speaker 1: not so fast. The best laid plans. All right. Next
Speaker 1: question comes from Will what's been the issue with Billy
Speaker 1: Price that's prevented his play in college to carry over
Speaker 1: to the NFL and can it be corrected? Well, I
Speaker 1: think one of the things is injury, you know. I
Speaker 1: mean he was durable as durable as you know can
Speaker 1: be in college, played a bunch of games at a
Speaker 1: house state and a ridiculous number never missed really, and
Speaker 1: then right away at the combine before the draft, he
Speaker 1: tears his pectorial doing you know, the bench press h work,
Speaker 1: and that that sets him back a little bit. And
Speaker 1: then he has the planet phaciitis or not the planet phacotis,
Speaker 1: he had the Liz franc injury, and that those are
Speaker 1: significant where right between the big toe and the second
Speaker 1: toe you have a separation of the bone and there
Speaker 1: can be some soft tissue damage in there as well,
Speaker 1: and you have a crack in the foundation, you know,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, those are two integral
Speaker 1: areas for for an offensive lineman. Feet. That's where it starts,
Speaker 1: you have to no matter in sports, no matter what
Speaker 1: you're talking about, it starts with your feet getting human
Speaker 1: place to block, and then it finishes with your hands,
Speaker 1: and if your pectoral's messed up, you can't really finish
Speaker 1: the way you want to with the you know, everything's
Speaker 1: connected kinesiology, everything's connected. You can't really finish upper body
Speaker 1: wise the way you want to, or put yourself in
Speaker 1: a position to block the way you want to at
Speaker 1: the lower body injury. So those are a factor. And uh,
Speaker 1: and I do think, um, he's got a little bit
Speaker 1: of an issue with his arm length. And you know,
Speaker 1: NP will say Jonah Williams has got shorter arms as well.
Speaker 1: He seems to be able to handle it a little
Speaker 1: bit differently Billy. Sometimes Billy ends up getting in a
Speaker 1: situation when I watch him, whereas if you're a skier,
Speaker 1: his his chins out over the tip of his skis.
Speaker 1: He's leaning too much, he's too too much forward. And
Speaker 1: why he's doing that is with the shorter arms, he
Speaker 1: wants to get the extra length of leaning forward to
Speaker 1: try to negate the defensive lineman's longer arms, and that
Speaker 1: just gets them in trouble because they get to the
Speaker 1: back of the candle lever and they'll get him on
Speaker 1: the ground. You know, you're off balance and you and
Speaker 1: you're on the ground. So I mean, you have to
Speaker 1: work with what you got, but you do have to
Speaker 1: make sure that you know you're not you're not leaning
Speaker 1: in the National Football give you lean and defensive lineman,
Speaker 1: you're just drooling waiting for guys to get off balance
Speaker 1: and lean in the National Football League. John asks, given
Speaker 1: how well Fred Johnson played at left tackle at the
Speaker 1: end of the season, is there any chance the Bengals
Speaker 1: put him at left tackle and Jonah Williams at right tackle.
Speaker 1: I guess there could be a possibility, but I do
Speaker 1: think that I think they want to give Jonah every
Speaker 1: opportunity to, uh, to prove that he can play the
Speaker 1: left tackle position. He played it at Alabama at a
Speaker 1: very very high level. Fred Johnson, you know, played one game,
Speaker 1: but it was an NFL game, you know, no question
Speaker 1: about it. And he finished the season at the left
Speaker 1: tackle position and fared well. But the projection of Jonah,
Speaker 1: a healthy Jonah Williams and uh, you know, Jonah obviously
Speaker 1: coming off of rotator cuff surgery with a shorter arm.
Speaker 1: To me, is there is there any coincidence to the
Speaker 1: fact that as you're in a drill without pads, even
Speaker 1: in OTAs, and you're trying to stop somebody and you're
Speaker 1: maybe not where you should be position wise with the
Speaker 1: shorter arm you Terry rotator Cuff, don't. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you if you're not, if you're not in that position,
Speaker 1: if you have a little bit more length, you're own,
Speaker 1: who knows. I mean, these are all speculations. Obviously, you
Speaker 1: just don't know. Hopefully that rotator Cuff is strong and
Speaker 1: healthy and he shows that he can play the left
Speaker 1: tackle the way he played at Alabama, and then I
Speaker 1: think Fred Johnson, Bobby Hart, Identagy, I'd have a best
Speaker 1: man win at the right tackle position. You guys battle
Speaker 1: it out. Not to say that Jonah is. You know,
Speaker 1: nobody's going to even take snaps on the Jona winning.
Speaker 1: Obviously he can't do that. So I think Fred Taylor,
Speaker 1: Bobby Hart, whoever it is, Identagy, whoever it is, whoever
Speaker 1: that swing tackle is, has to be able to play
Speaker 1: right and left. So you know, maybe knowing Jimmy Turner,
Speaker 1: maybe he will play Jonah a little bit at right.
Speaker 1: Because in the National Football League, you can't just be
Speaker 1: like one win position. You can't be just I'm a
Speaker 1: left tackle and that's all I am. You have to
Speaker 1: be able to play left or right? Can you go
Speaker 1: inside and play guard? If you're a guard, can you
Speaker 1: be a backup center or vice versa. So I think
Speaker 1: position versatility is extremely important, and I think you need
Speaker 1: to expose guys to at least you know the scenario that, hey,
Speaker 1: we get beaten up, you may have to play some
Speaker 1: right right tackle. You know our best option. This guy
Speaker 1: can play left. He can't play right at all. You
Speaker 1: can play right at all. You shown you can play
Speaker 1: right a little bit, so you know, the more you
Speaker 1: can do, the more valuable you can be. Final ask
Speaker 1: lap question. This one comes from PJ. With the addition
Speaker 1: of von Bell to go with Jesse Bates. What kind
Speaker 1: of role does Sean Williams have? That's an interesting question.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the Bengals have played a lot
Speaker 1: of three safety looks in there and a lot of
Speaker 1: their sub packages, and uh, you know, Sean is obviously
Speaker 1: capable of doing that. And it's it's it's not a
Speaker 1: given that von Bell will start at that safety position.
Speaker 1: They paid him a lot of money though, so you
Speaker 1: know it's it's like again, if you have it's better
Speaker 1: to have three safeties than only two. And uh, Sean
Speaker 1: can play. He's very physical, von Bell is very physical.
Speaker 1: Either one of them could play like that linebacker or
Speaker 1: safety hybrid type position and some of the sub packages
Speaker 1: when they go to three safeties. So with the problems
Speaker 1: that they had at the linebacker position, and last year
Speaker 1: they did do a lot of that and um Um,
Speaker 1: Sean and and Vaughan both show that they if they can,
Speaker 1: you know, get off blocks, defeat blocks, separate from blocks,
Speaker 1: and make plays in the running game not be a liability,
Speaker 1: they could be on the field a lot. Um. So
Speaker 1: I know Sean is uh is very highly regarded in
Speaker 1: the locker room by his teammates and by the coaches
Speaker 1: and the coaching staff, so they'll they'll carve a role
Speaker 1: for him. I mean, there's there's no question about it.
Speaker 1: It's it's Uh. You You basically you don't say, all right,
Speaker 1: I've got these are the defenses we're going to run,
Speaker 1: no matter what personnel I've got. You basically look at
Speaker 1: your personnel. You have an idea of what you want
Speaker 1: to do schematically, but sometimes it morphs a little bit
Speaker 1: based on what you have from personnel standpoint, Where your strengths,
Speaker 1: where your weaknesses accentuate, your strengths, hide your weaknesses and
Speaker 1: uh and you go from there. And having a guy
Speaker 1: the caliber Shawn that's had as many NFL snaps as
Speaker 1: he had, ain't nothing wrong with that. Normally, in training
Speaker 1: camp were standing between the two fields, right up next
Speaker 1: to the action, talking to people, picking up interesting material.
Speaker 1: This year, it sounds like we'll be watching from a
Speaker 1: distance wearing masks six feet apart. But that's okay. I'm
Speaker 1: looking forward to it anyway, And on our next podcast
Speaker 1: we'll look ahead at some training camp battles that we're
Speaker 1: looking forward to watching. How that's yeah, that sounds good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to have binoculars. I think we're gonna
Speaker 1: be a little ways away, and it's going to be
Speaker 1: very interesting not having access to players in the locker room.
Speaker 1: And I mean we can't even go into our studio.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's very little that I guess we're
Speaker 1: gonna be spending a lot of time up in the
Speaker 1: press box at Paul Brown Stadium up top there and Dana,
Speaker 1: we're going to travel for away games. We may be
Speaker 1: calling football games from up there in the press box
Speaker 1: and on a monitor. I guess, depending on how this
Speaker 1: whole thing goes. One thing we know is we don't know.
Speaker 1: We don't know what the heck is going to happen.
Speaker 1: It can change weekly, daily, hourly. I mean, it's it's
Speaker 1: that type of year at twenty twenty, it's about it's
Speaker 1: a lot blurry on that there's no clear vision to
Speaker 1: what this year is going to unfold. I'll tell you Hi,
Speaker 1: thanks to Lap and to Robert Weintraub, and that's going
Speaker 1: to do it for this episode of The Bengals Booth Podcast,
Speaker 1: brought to you by Prime Sport, the official fan, travel
Speaker 1: and hospitality partner of the Cincinnati Bengals. If you haven't
Speaker 1: done so already, please subscribe, and if you have a minute,
Speaker 1: give it a rating or share a comment that helps
Speaker 1: more Bengals fans find this podcast. I'm Dan Horde, and
Speaker 1: thanks for listening to The Bengals Booth Podcast