WEBVTT - Deep Sea Diver 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:15.240 Pushkin. Just a quick note here. You can listen to 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:18.239 all of the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist, 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:20.320 which you can find a link to in the show 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:24.120 notes for licensing reasons, each time a song is referenced 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:29.320 in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect all right. 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:34.720 Enjoy the episode. There's no playbook for successfully releasing music 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:38.159 during a pandemic, especially if you're an indie artist. The 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:41.599 stakes really couldn't be higher, but Deep Sea Diver has 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:44.479 managed to put all that aside to drop a thrilling 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:49.559 and relevant new album. That's the lead singer Jessica Dobson 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:52.600 singing the title track of Deep Sea Diver's third album, 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:56.680 Impossible Wait. While the Seattle based band only recently started 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:59.480 their assent in to indie rock stardom, Jessica Dobson has 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:02.880 played in some the genre's most defining bands. She toured 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:05.160 the world as lead guitarists for Beck and the Shins 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:07.960 and played keyboard and bass for the Yeah Yeah Yaz. 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:11.600 In twenty fifteen, Jessica formed Deep Sea Diver with her 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:14.720 husband and drummer Peter Manson, and the wake of their 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:17.959 new album, Broken Record producer Leah Rose talked to Jessica 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:21.040 about how I Stay at Home livestream series inspired her 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:25.000 to write a pandemic anthem and record time. Jessica also 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:27.720 talks about how volunteering at a shelter for homeless sex 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:31.200 workers helped her overcome a vicious bout of depression and 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:33.920 write what she considers to be the best album of 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:40.360 her career. This is broken record liner notes for the 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:48.760 digital Age. I'm justin Richmondson. Here's Leah Rose with Jessica 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:52.240 Dobson of Deep Sea Diver. Let's talk a little bit 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:56.240 about your new album. Yeah, so, how has the pandemic 0:01:56.360 --> 0:02:00.560 changed the release and the marketing? Well, you know, most dramatically, 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:05.760 no touring for everybody, that's you know, the most foreign thing. 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:08.600 Usually this is the time you're getting ready to hit 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:11.880 the road and like, if there's any momentum, keep pushing 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:15.919 that momentum forward, you know. And that's always been how 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:19.920 we've gained new new fans and follows. Is just like 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:23.200 with the live show and meeting other bands on the road, 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:28.560 and it really is devastating, but we've tried to pivot 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:32.600 and be as scrappy as possible and you know, try 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:35.200 to figure out what it looks like for us to 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:38.359 I guess the only presence you can have now is online, 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:41.480 and so just like figuring out how we want to 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:45.160 do that and be creative with that that medium, and 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:48.160 then have you had to sort of reimagine how you 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:51.320 present the live show or even the new music now 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:53.680 that everything's just kind of like on zoom or you're 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:58.200 live streaming. Absolutely for a while we were doing like 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:02.120 a weekly live stream when this first hit and Stop 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:06.720 Pretending came out of the stay home tours like live 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:09.600 streams that we were doing on Sunday nights, and Peter 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:12.359 had this like crazy idea, like I think it was 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:15.160 the first live stream we did. At the end of 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:18.360 the live stream, he played a drum beat We recorded 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:21.800 it live as we were showing people it on like Instagram, 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:24.560 and he said, Okay, this drum beat that I just played, 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:26.799 we recorded it and we're going to upload it to dropbox. 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:29.680 Whoever wants to download it, take it and write your 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:31.880 own song to it. At the end of that week, 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:35.160 like people's submissions were due, because I was so interested 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:37.520 to see, like, Okay, obviously everyone has a different brain, 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:41.240 different melotic sensibilities. There's going to be so many different submission. 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:43.559 I actually didn't know how many people were going to participate, 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:45.960 and we ended up getting like seventy people sent in 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:50.280 songs with this one looped drum beat, and towards the 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:52.640 end of the week when it was due, I hadn't 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:55.160 even started writing on that drum beat yet, and I 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:56.800 was like, that's kind of lame if I asked people 0:03:56.840 --> 0:03:59.480 to write, like write a song, but I don't even 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:03.920 do it. Yeah. So I sat in the studio and 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:06.080 I tried to write to the drum beat, and whatever 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:08.400 was coming out was kind of lifeless. And I ended 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:12.040 up going on a walk and I came back and 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:15.680 then stop pretending just came out. So it was written 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:18.000 in a day, it was mixed the next day by 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:20.640 me in the home studio, and then it was released 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.520 the next day after that. Never done anything like that. 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:28.040 And it has the line everything's falling apart. Yeah, honey, 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:32.160 I can't pretend to understand why everything's falling apart. Yeah. Yeah, 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:33.960 I've been singing that around the house my little two 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:39.400 year old sweet yea, so good, thank you. Yeah. I 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:43.160 definitely was, you know, a song very much influenced, you know, 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:47.400 by the times. It's just like it's so yeah, everything 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:50.880 was just so unsure and still is. There's no end 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:53.520 date to what's going on right now, and it's just 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:56.920 like almost like, Okay, I could write like a terror 0:04:57.000 --> 0:04:59.279 filled song or just something I just kind of like, 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:02.360 all right, call Spada spade. The situation is totally messed up, 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:04.240 and I don't know what's going on, and I can't 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:07.440 pretend to understand. But just like I don't know the 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:11.320 resilience of the human spirit and relating on that meant 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:13.200 a lot to me. And so for some reason, yeah, 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:18.440 the song came out. Stop pretending. So your sound classically 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:24.360 is sort of really warm and poppy, fuzzy, sort of dreamy. 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:29.240 How would you say that your sound has evolved over 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:33.080 the course of the three albums. I think that the 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:38.520 first album was kind of leaning more into like jangly 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:42.760 pop songs like you Go Running kind of you know, 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:46.359 at the time, was influenced more by like Phoenix and 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:51.560 the Smiths, and but then also total contrast, like a 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:53.919 lot of ballads that were darker. I love Nick Cave 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:55.880 and and so I was kind of just like finding 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:59.280 my footing in in the first record and then the 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:03.680 second one, and I think I I really tried to 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:07.320 step out more with like leading with guitar, and so 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:10.039 there was a lot more jammy moments and guitar solos 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.440 and heaviness. And then this record I kind of feel 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:16.120 like I I came home again to like some of 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:21.600 my my like earlier influences a lot more like narrative 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:25.200 storytelling and songwriting. It's something that I had kind of 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:27.320 dismissed for a while or didn't think I was good 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:30.920 enough at. And so I think a lot these songs 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:34.440 breathed really well, and they maybe are not as heavy 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:37.160 in terms of like the rock world that maybe Secrets 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:40.240 lived in. They are a lot more vulnerable, so I 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:44.120 don't And then musically there's still like a lot of 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:47.520 those stabby guitar and moments that I think I tried 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:50.280 to write a lot of like what I perceived as 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:54.000 that sounded almost like I'm singing a lyric melody, but 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:57.200 through guitar there's a lot of those moments. So it's 0:06:57.240 --> 0:07:00.880 an extension of my voice instead of just like heaviness 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:04.400 and loudness and jamminess and feedback and all that. So, yeah, 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:09.440 it's a lot more melodic. Yeah it's super catchy. You know, 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:12.480 I've listened to the album a lot over the last week, 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:16.040 and it's like by the second or third listen, it's 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:17.600 like I feel like I'm right there and I know 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:22.120 the melodies and they're totally synking in. That's awesome. How 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:25.640 do you not play a melody that you've already heard 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:28.480 from another song, or how do you even know if 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:34.160 you're yeah, you know, like recreating something unconsciously. That seems 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:36.840 like the hardest part of songwriting. I just feel like 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:40.360 I would sit down and you know, play like something 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.600 like something very obvious and well known totally. There have 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.240 been moments where I literally have I mean I know 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:48.760 I have it on voice memos where somewhere of just 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:52.760 like being so excited to show Peter he's my partner 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:54.440 in the band or the whole band, just like check 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:56.760 out this new song, and then someone goes like, yeah, 0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:59.880 that's like a feist song, like that melody right there 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:03.680 or whatever, like and you know, something that I'll be 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:06.640 so excited about, and I'll just have I just yeah, 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:08.600 be wrapped up in the moment not even realize that 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:10.600 it's like a total rip off. And then other times 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:15.840 I write songs by ripping off melodies, so then I 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:20.080 can get into the mindset of that artist or like 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:24.520 literally just like pretending and trying to get out of, 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:28.960 you know, my headspace and then from there having the 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.920 freedom to make it my own. Yeah. Kevin Parker from 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:35.800 Tam and Paulo was talking about the same thing, and 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:38.280 he was saying, when he writes, he often tries to 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:42.280 make a continuation of a song, right, like He'll listen. 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:44.440 He was like talking about a beach House song that 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:47.240 he was obsessed with, and then he tried to write 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:50.320 like the next volume of that song. Yeah, that's a 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:54.000 great idea. Anything that helps. Like, we just get in 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:56.239 our heads all the time, and there's so many reasons, 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:58.079 you know, why not to push forward on a song, 0:08:58.280 --> 0:09:02.960 and so all of the little tools are so necessary 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:07.120 and helpful. So you produced this album, right, co produced? Yeah, 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:10.360 my first one. I think I've been producing my whole 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:13.840 life without knowing it and without giving it the official title, 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:18.360 but like or attempting to produce things. But this was 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:21.080 the first official one. Yeah. Did you come to it 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:25.240 with an overall vision for the project? I first came 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:30.840 to it actually in a very scared place. I at 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:35.880 the time when we were going to record this this 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.599 record that that's coming out now. We had already attempted 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:44.000 twice to make a record coming right off the heels 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:47.560 of Like Secrets, and it didn't go well. And I 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:51.680 was in a pretty low, dark place and questioning a lot. 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:55.719 And I had finally, like I had a couple of 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:57.880 songs that I saw some sparks in, but I was 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:01.080 still in a pretty pretty low place. And Peter came 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:03.800 downstairs remember one day, and he was like, I think 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:05.720 you're going to produce this record. You need to produce 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:09.320 this record, And I just instantly started crying. I don't 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:13.600 know why, but I just was in such a fucked 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:16.400 up place and just like didn't even have the self 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:19.360 confidence to think that, like, yeah, that's a good idea. 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:22.000 So was that more pressure? Did that feel like oh no, no, 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:24.080 I have two jobs to do? Yeah? I know it 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:26.320 felt like, oh no, if I step into that role, 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:31.680 like this record will never get made or I'll overthink it. 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:35.200 Then if it doesn't do well, it will really be 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:38.680 all on me because I produced it. And so there's 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:41.920 so much fear wrapped up in that and for a 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:45.199 number of reasons, but like basically in the end, I 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:48.480 was just like, you know what I need to do this, 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:51.840 and I think I'm prepared to do it, and I'm 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:55.720 ready to jump up over that cliff. And I basically 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:58.520 sought out like a co producer for the things that 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:01.199 I knew that I was not, like I needed a 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:03.679 right hand man of just like I'm not good at 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:08.040 time management. I will press record a thousand times and 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:11.640 then not even use it. And Andy, So, Andy Park 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:13.880 was my co producer for this, and there's so many 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:17.080 wonderful things he brought to the table and really challenged 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:19.400 me to like sharpen the tip on all of the 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:23.440 songs and the lyrics. And yeah, it was such a fun, 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:28.959 joyful experience. That's amazing. Also, it sounds like exactly what 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:32.040 you needed to do. I think so too. Yeah, I 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:34.080 think a lot of things had been preparing me for 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:38.200 this record. I lived in records when I was a kid, 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:40.480 just I didn't realize that it was like kind of 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:43.679 a producer mindset. But I would pick apart different frequencies 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:45.520 and Okay, these are the highs and these are the 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:47.040 lows of the song, and I would try to imagine 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:50.880 how they would get those sounds. And so, yeah, it 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:54.360 feels like I was preparing myself my whole life, but 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:56.800 just didn't know it. Well, yeah, maybe you didn't have 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:59.880 the language for it yet exactly the intention and you 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:05.400 had the interest really Yeah, totally. On Lights Out the song, 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:08.800 I was just curious from a producers standpoint, there's a 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.800 little what sounds like a little vocal sample at the 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:13.680 beginning of the song, and then the whole you know, 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:16.280 the beat drops and it sort of disappears from that moment. 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:19.920 What was the thinking behind that? The one that says 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:23.480 hot Mike? Oh, is that what it says? Yeah, And 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.680 I don't know why I said hot Mike, but there's 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:29.880 we're always trying to like keep spirits light in the studio. 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:33.199 But that's actually interesting that you asked me this question, 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:37.800 because I wanted moments on this record that brought you 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:40.880 into a different world and then also back, and then 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:42.840 I wanted you to be able to feel like you're 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:45.400 in the studio with us too. Yeah, it's cool. It's 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:48.480 almost like you're there right before the song starts totally 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:51.720 and hearing you know, two or three seconds before the 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:54.720 band starts playing, you feel the power of the band 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:57.720 in a new way. Yeah. Absolutely, I think there's a 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:02.079 lot of moments like that on like Broken Social Scene records. 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:04.640 You hear that and a lot of hip hop records 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:07.080 actually too. I mean I'm sure you know, yes, yeah, 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:10.520 that's what it reminded me of. Yeah, I specially love 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:13.840 kind of especially those reprises like that Kendrick Lamar does 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:19.360 and they're thematic and like it feels like he's talking 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:23.400 directly to you, and so yeah, I'm a big fan 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:27.040 of that. Very cool. That song is just undeniable. I mean, 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:29.400 that's one of the real one of the songs that 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:32.560 really like hooked its claws and to me quick it 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:35.000 always kind of amazes me how short it is because 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:37.520 it seems like there's a lot packed into it. But 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:41.199 the songs on this record in general are shorter, and 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.839 I didn't try to do that, but somehow it came 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:47.480 out that way. But these little ones a little fireball 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:53.880 that's lights out from Deep Sea Diver's new album, Impossible Way. 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:57.080 We'll hear more from Leah Rose and Jessica Dobson after 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:05.960 a break. Here's more of Leo Rose's conversation with Jessica Dobson. So, 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:08.439 I'm curious about your thoughts about the music industry because 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:12.560 you've been in the music industry for a really long time. Yeah, 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:17.600 you were signed at nineteen with Atlantic. What type of 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:19.680 music were you making back then, and how did that 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:24.200 happen At that time? That was kind of like like 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:27.600 right before the Atlantic Records deal happened, I was playing 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:31.080 coffee shops around like I grew up in Lahabra Fullerton 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:34.640 area and was just kind of like just starting to 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:37.720 come onto the scene and meet new people. And one 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:42.280 of the first people I met was this guy Eli Thompson, 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:47.000 and he played with Richard Swift, who has since passed 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:49.920 and rest in peace, Richard. We played together in the Shins. 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:52.840 That's when I started buying a ton of records and 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:57.360 going omiba like every Sunday, and they were expanding my 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:00.960 little eighteen nineteen year old brain and they kind of 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:03.520 took me under their wing and we recorded my first demos. 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:07.680 So out of those demos, there was a song called 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:09.920 most Sundays that I kind of had this very like 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:12.440 I guess you could say rich just Swift an Elliott 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:15.960 Smith kind of swung beat, and that was the song 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:18.640 that kind of, I guess, put me on the map 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:22.320 in front of these major labeled types. My manager at 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:24.880 the time, I media showcases. I didn't know what I 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:27.000 was doing. I just showed up and played the songs 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:30.800 in my band, and then it seemed pretty crazy. All 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:32.920 of a sudden, there was a deal on the table 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:35.600 and I was super young, and I was like, oh, 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:38.640 if I don't take this, then I guess nothing will 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:40.960 like this will come again, so I should probably take 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:44.440 this deal. So once I signed the deal and kind 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.200 of felt like I was in this weird, faceless system, 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:50.080 like I think that's where I started getting anxiety, but 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:51.920 didn't know what that was either at the time. I 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:54.600 ended up like losing my voice for I think my 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:57.560 actual speaking voice and singing voice for five months. It 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:01.440 was the craziest experience that seems very and bolic, honestly, 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:05.880 like I wasn't lost on me. I know, it's super crazy. 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:10.160 I think you know, since that time, like as I've 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:13.120 reflected a lot more on it, I think I've been 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:17.280 searching for that for I'm always searching for like musical 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:20.600 community and more connection. Because that took me out of 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:25.000 it right away and control totally. Yeah. I heard Katy 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:28.440 Perry talking about this, and she because she was trying 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:32.640 to like make it and break through for so long, 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:34.320 and she was at it, and she was in that 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:38.240 Christian realm too, like Christian music realm, I think beginning 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:42.040 started out, yeah, which is a totally different scene, but yeah, 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:44.080 and I think she was at it for like ten years. 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:48.440 And then she made the most Unchristian song ever, right right, 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:52.200 it's a girl, and she like totally blew up. Yeah, 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:55.520 but I think even she was like totally surprised. But 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:57.880 I think that's the key, though. You never know when 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:02.240 something's gonna quote unquote work, whatever that means. And I 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:05.480 think I think that's a good example because she put 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.200 in the work like it didn't come out of nothing, 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.320 and whatever she thought was a failure like set her 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:14.720 up for that moment. And then you know, you could 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:19.399 flash forward today and you know, like it's like nobody 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:22.080 can recreate their successes, and you go through these valleys 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.840 and peaks of what success looks like to you as 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:27.679 an artist, and I don't know, it's just kind of 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:30.639 so much as right place, right time, and this weird 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:34.720 alchemy of a ton of things. Yeah, and then what 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:39.360 ended up happening to the deal, I was just so sad. Music, 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:42.959 the joy of it was absolutely squeezed out of it 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:46.879 for me, and just having experienced like different kinds of 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:49.760 rejection amidst what looked like a big quote unquote success, 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:54.160 it was a failure for me, and like I was embarrassed. 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:56.760 I didn't know what to do, and I ended up 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:58.520 just kind of putting my head in the sand and 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:02.760 stopped playing z for like a year and ran a 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:05.320 coffee shop, like I was like a partial investor and 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:10.760 just like totally doing Like Peter, who's now I'm married 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:12.359 to him and he's in the band, he plays drums. 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:14.080 He at the time, we were just best friends and 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:15.960 he came down and he was like, what the fuck 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:18.520 are you doing? Why are you running a coffee shop? 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:22.720 You should be playing music, And like totally helped me 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:26.520 out of and back into just playing again and find 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:29.000 being able to find joy in it. So that was 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:32.000 pretty sweet. You're like, I'm marrying you. Thank you, Yeah, 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:38.040 thank you? Yeah, good choice. Yeah totally. And what's it 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:41.159 like collaborating with your husband? How does that change the 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:45.800 dynamic of your relationship? Are you always talking about music 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:47.879 at home or are you able to sort of like 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:55.359 compartmentalize those conversations it's tricky to compartmentalize the conversations. We 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:57.720 definitely both have the brains that don't know how to 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:03.160 shut things we're passionate about off. But I am so 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:06.879 grateful for Peter. I mean just personally as my partner, 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:11.440 but then in a musical setting we couldn't be any different. Um. 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:16.200 He is, like I love how just kind of eighty 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:19.240 with his ideas and he doesn't give a shit about 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:23.160 looking foolish. He'll throw like a thousand ideas out into 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:27.280 the room and you know, he himself will say like, yeah, 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:30.679 like nine nine of these are probably not good or 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:32.439 not good, and but the one that makes it's like 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:34.800 he's like this burst of energy and these little sports 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:38.199 and he's the sparker in the band. Totally. Yeah. I 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:40.080 was gonna say, sometimes you need that to get just 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:43.400 the ideas flowing and the energy going. Someone just needs 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:46.879 to say something and then it'll turn into something totally 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:49.120 And I think that like he got that a lot 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:53.760 from like, uh like improv kind of yeah, improv. Yes, 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:57.080 So he's a yes n a person. There's no like, hey, 0:19:57.080 --> 0:19:58.560 I don't want to do this thing that you just 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:01.320 started us on the path. It's just like, Okay, I'm 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:02.840 taking what you just said and then I have to 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:05.600 end it. Yes, And and so he's constantly getting on 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:09.159 me when I like am not being open to like, 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:12.240 let's say, he'll presents something like an idea, musical or 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:17.479 creative whatever, and if I like kind of rejected or 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:19.800 don't want to get into it, he gets upset. And 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:23.240 I totally get that. And that's where I need to 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:25.680 be pushed in is just being freer and not as 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:30.080 precious about things. So he's just wonderful like in that 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:35.480 arena and obviously fantastic drummer and just yeah, he's crazy. 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:38.439 He's just like so much energy, yeah, and live like 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:41.480 he's it's like so and it's really fun to see 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:45.200 like him in and Garrett who plays in the band. 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:47.600 He plays bass in the band. Like the way they 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:50.520 play off of each other, you know, Peter tends to 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:52.520 kind of be like slightly on top of the beat 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:54.880 and Gary tends to be just slightly behind, and it's 0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:58.240 like it's perfect. I love it. And you guys really 0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:02.200 jam out when you play live. Is that orchestrated ahead 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:04.439 of time or does that happen naturally? Is it like 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:07.679 a really an authentic jam or is that sort of 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:12.199 more pre planned typically. I don't know. It's just one 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:15.600 of those magic moments when we go into longer jams 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:17.399 and really stretch it out. There's a song on the 0:21:17.440 --> 0:21:20.200 record called Eisa Red that has like a three minute 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:23.440 guitar solo on it, and it gets into this kind 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:30.360 of LCD sound system hypnotic groove for like three minutes, 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:33.720 and sometimes live we'll tease that out for like ten minutes, 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:36.960 and it just depends on what the mood is and 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:41.879 it's fun to, I don't know, feel the freedom in 0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:45.520 terms of like guitar playing, of when you start finding 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:49.240 that you're playing things. What you're hearing in your head 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:51.720 at that moment in the middle of a live show 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:54.639 but you've not necessarily played is coming out on guitar 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:59.040 and that's just years of playing. But like, yeah, it's 0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:01.800 kind of thrilling, and so it's one of my most 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:04.359 favorite moments when as a band you can get to 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:13.440 those places. We'll be back soon after a break. Before 0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:16.240 we get into the rest of Leah's conversation with Jessica Dobson. 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:19.240 Here's some of the title track off Deep Sea Diver's 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:25.000 new album, which features Sharon Vannett. When this song was 0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:29.160 first written, it was the last song the album was done, 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:31.840 and then I asked, like my managers one day, I 0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:34.600 was like, do you think this record needs another song? 0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:36.360 And they're like, it wouldn't I mean, it wouldn't hurt 0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:37.960 to try. Do you want to try to co write? 0:22:38.160 --> 0:22:41.800 And I was like yeah, And so I went down 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:45.800 to California with this woman named Jendas Silvio and Peter 0:22:45.920 --> 0:22:47.959 came with me too, and I try to show up 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:55.280 to this session without any preconceived melodic, lyrical anything, just 0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:58.679