1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: Here's the thing, and I bet you get this. When 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: you're an actor, people think you must be a good liar, 3 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:08,239 Speaker 1: and I'm like, no, I memorize other people's words. I 4 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: can't come up with them on my own. I'm not 5 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: like a liar on the fly. 6 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm bad at that. 7 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 3: Hey, there, I met Helms and Welcome to SNAPO, the 8 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 3: show about history's greatest screw ups, or more specifically, the 9 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 3: show where I lead my brilliant guests through some of 10 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 3: the least brilliant moments in history. Today, I am joined 11 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 3: by someone who wears a lot of hats. This woman 12 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 3: is a powerhouse. You've seen her on the big screen, 13 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 3: the small screen, and in your podcast feed with the 14 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 3: stirring and thoughtful show in progress. She's an actress, an activist, producer, 15 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 3: and all around troublemaker for justice. Please welcome Sophia Bush. 16 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: I like that introduction, ed Helms. Can I It's like, 17 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:15,759 Speaker 1: I want a little recording of that I can pull 18 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 1: out of my pocket when I go somewhere. 19 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 3: Well, we're recording is the podcast? This is sad feel 20 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 3: you can yeah, just feel free to use anytime you want. 21 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 1: I'm going to admit to you now I'll be stealing 22 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: your audio. Thank you, sir. 23 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 3: I was trying to think about I feel like I've 24 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 3: known you a long long time, but then I couldn't 25 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 3: place our the sort of origin of our connection. I 26 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 3: think it was represent us. Did we need to ed 27 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 3: represent us? Event only like way. 28 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: Back gosh, I think you're right, yeah, yeah, I didn't 29 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: know if it was do something or like I knew 30 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: we were in the mix on the let's inject hope 31 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: into working on society's problems because everyone always thinks that's 32 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: a drag, and it's like, no, it's actually pretty cool. 33 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 3: Were just before we started recording, we were talking about 34 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 3: fly fishing, which I want to get back to. But 35 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 3: I just have a more sort of like meaty question 36 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 3: for you, because I really love how you have like 37 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 3: leveraged your platform for meaningful impact in the world. 38 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:17,799 Speaker 1: Thanks. 39 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 3: I am a voter times up. Of course, you know 40 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 3: your your your climate work, and I'm just curious. You 41 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 3: know a lot of people with high profile kind of 42 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 3: dip into activism here and there. You've done much more 43 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 3: than dipping in, like you're you're fully engaged, and I'm 44 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 3: curious how those particular issues emerged for you. Was that. 45 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 3: Was it sort of strategic about where you could make 46 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 3: the most impact or was it more visceral like this, 47 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 3: These are things I feel in my gut, and I 48 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 3: got to speak up about this. 49 00:02:55,080 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's definitely definitely option B and to choose your adventure. 50 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: I The irony is you're like, was it strategic? I 51 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: think it was probably the most unstrategic thing I could do. 52 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: For most of my career, my whole team has been like, 53 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: please shut up about the just can you like tone 54 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: it down? Could you just pick a charity, go to 55 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: the gala, like, write a check once in a while. 56 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: Why do you have to be so agitating to the system. 57 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: And I'm like, because the system needs to be agitated. 58 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: It's a shitty system. I the way I have come 59 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: to understand this thing about myself, and I think it's 60 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: been helpful. One of my best friends is a really 61 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: brilliant writer. His name's Jedediah Jenkins, and he said something 62 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: to me years ago. He said, we have a lot 63 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: of friends that work in creative spaces, and a lot 64 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: of our friends who are creatives are also concerned citizens. 65 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: You know, he goes, but You're I think you're the 66 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: only person I know who pretend who's a full time activist, 67 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: who pretends to be a full time actor, Like, I 68 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: feel like you kind of act just so you can 69 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: maintain the reach. And I used to think that was true. 70 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: And I think what I've realized over the last couple 71 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: of years is the spectrum of my experience as a 72 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: person needs both My work, whether it's like you know, 73 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 1: jumping in to do an improv show or a movie 74 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: is so sustaining to me and like my creative gas tank. 75 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: But the activism that is for everybody else, for community, 76 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: Like that's my calling. It's like like like painters can't 77 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 1: not paint, Yeah, writers can't not write. I cannot, even 78 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 1: despite great advice at times, keep my mouth shut about 79 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: things that I know are wrong and ways we could 80 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: be better, and how the whole point of being on 81 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: this planet is to like be neighbors with people. I 82 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: can't shut my mouth. 83 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 3: No, that's incredible. I could just like go down this 84 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 3: rabbit hole for let me just ask you quickly and 85 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 3: let's let's keep this far short. What do you love 86 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 3: about fly fishing? I have an answer to this, but 87 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 3: what is your what is it you love about it? 88 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: Fly fishing for me is in that kind of cannon 89 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: of the American West. And to be clear, and like 90 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,119 Speaker 1: I'm sure people will tell me I'm cringe or whatever. 91 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: I'm like like I am. I am a horse girl 92 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: at heart. Like I'm never happier than when I'm out 93 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,919 Speaker 1: on horseback, out on empty you know, land or forests 94 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 1: or whatever. And fly fishing is that same kind of beautiful, 95 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: meditative experience in the land. It's so grounding to me. 96 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: And oh, I just I think it's magic totally. And 97 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: I have to say, like, the chakiest, gayest trip I've 98 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: ever taken was taking five of my girlfriends fly fishing 99 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: years ago, and I look back at the photos and 100 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: I'm like a clue. It was so cool and it's like, 101 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: I don't know, I am passionate about it, and I'm 102 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: also really passionate about getting more women out into the outdoors, 103 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: into spaces where there are often less of us, but 104 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: where we're we're actually quite good caster. 105 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 3: All right, let's get into this snap. But we have 106 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 3: a really fun one today. 107 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: What do you got for me? It's very exciting for me. 108 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: I'm nervous and excited all at the same time. 109 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 3: So this is a great, early and very literal example 110 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 3: of there is no such thing as bad press. We 111 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 3: are going to dig into the infamous Mona Lisa. Heist. Oh, 112 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 3: we begin our tale. In France, it's August twenty first, 113 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 3: nineteen eleven, a Tuesday, to be precise. A local artist 114 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 3: by the name of Louis Berude has decided to escape 115 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 3: the sweltering August Parisian heat and peruse a few of 116 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 3: his favorite works at a local museum. One of the 117 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 3: pieces he likes to check out was an oil painting 118 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 3: on a poplar wood panel that many lovingly called La Gioconda. 119 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 3: It utilized a stunning innovative technique called svumto a hazy effect, 120 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 3: blending colors and tones with subtle precision. But when Brud 121 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 3: arrived at Lagiaconda's normal hanging spot in the museum, she 122 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 3: wasn't there. 123 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: She was gone. 124 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 3: She was gone. Now this may not feel like such 125 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 3: a big deal at first, but let's just be clear. 126 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 3: Lagiaconda is also known by her other name, the Mona Lisa. 127 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 3: We're talking about the Mona Lisa, and we actually have 128 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 3: a photo. Let's let's get up that photo of the 129 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 3: Mona Lisa. There she is hello, lady, Hello darling. Yes, 130 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 3: isn't she incredible? 131 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: She really is quite stunning. 132 00:07:56,040 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 3: She has achieved this legendary status in large, as we'll hear, 133 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 3: because of this famous heist, but she deserves it too, 134 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 3: and she's truly a masterpiece. 135 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: She's so luminous. 136 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 3: Look at her. 137 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: She looks like she swallowed a light bulb. 138 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 3: Yes, let's just get a few facts out. Let's get 139 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 3: into the numbers of the Mona Lisa for a quick second. 140 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 3: Here's some stats. She's roughly thirty inches tall and twenty 141 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 3: one inches wide, which is not large. That's like the 142 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 3: average size of your Led Zeppelin poster in a college 143 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 3: dorm room. 144 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: She's just like a little gal. 145 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 3: He's right, she's a little gal. 146 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 2: She's like a. 147 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 1: Concert poster you have framed in your kitchen. 148 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 3: There you go. Mona Lisa's eyes famously follow the viewer. 149 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 3: Thanks to Da Vinci's mastery of perspective. Psychologists estimate this 150 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 3: smile appears to shift depending on where your eyes land. 151 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,199 Speaker 3: A two thousand and five University of Amsterdam study found 152 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 3: eighty three percent of viewers interpret her as happy, nine 153 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 3: percent disgusted, six percent fearful, and two percent angry. I 154 00:08:59,520 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 3: love that. 155 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: I've never thought any of those things. 156 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 3: So on that morning, Louis Beerude asked a guard where 157 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 3: has the Mona Lisa gone? And the guard wasn't particularly concerned. 158 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 3: He assumed it had just been taken out by a 159 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 3: staff photographer who was known to remove various paintings to 160 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 3: take pictures of them, and then sometimes forget to return 161 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 3: them right away. But as the hours ticked by and 162 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 3: the photographer swore he didn't have it, panic started to 163 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:30,079 Speaker 3: set in. By mid afternoon, around three pm, the louver 164 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 3: quietly cleared out all the tourists and staff under the 165 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 3: pretense of a burst water pipe, not true. Meanwhile, they 166 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 3: called in about sixty detectives to comb through the museum's 167 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 3: endless corridors and hidden corners, which is no small feet 168 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 3: because the louver is huge. If you lay it out 169 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 3: all of its halls and galleries in a straight line, 170 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 3: it would be nearly nine miles, which is crazy. Have 171 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 3: you ever been to the Louver? Have you seen the 172 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 3: Mona Lisa in person? I have? 173 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: Can I actually tell you the coolest thing that's ever 174 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:05,079 Speaker 1: happened to me? Of no, it's like of no doing 175 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: of my own so there are very There are only 176 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 1: five modern artists, like you know, our era of modernity 177 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 1: who have installations, permanent installations in the Louver. And one 178 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 1: of them happens to be a dear friend of mine 179 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: who is like an incredibly exceptional engineer and artist who 180 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 1: makes moving sculptures, and a few years ago when he 181 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 1: was selected to be the artist of our generation with 182 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: a permanent installation, I got to go on installation day 183 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: because I happened to be in France because I was 184 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: working and the Louver was closed. 185 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 3: You've got a backstage pass to the louver. 186 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: Yes, I got to be there for the day, you know, 187 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 1: and I was taking photographs and like so excited I 188 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 1: did for him and his family. And then the curator said, 189 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: would everyone, like, you know, quietly, would everyone like thirty 190 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: minutes to go see a few of our most famous exhibitions. 191 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: And they took us to see them on a lisa, 192 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: no ropes, no lines, no humans, and it was like 193 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: it actually made me emotional. I got a little weepy. Yeah, 194 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: it felt like a not even like a once in 195 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: a lifetime, it was like a once in a generation 196 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: kind of experience. And I was like, wow, I'm this 197 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: is like, maybe one of the coolest things that will 198 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: ever happen to me in my life. 199 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 3: That's that is incredibly cool. I went to the Louver. 200 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 3: I don't know, it was probably seven or eight years ago. 201 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 3: I've been a few times, but the last visit I 202 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 3: just like, I'm going to go by myself. I love 203 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 3: going to museums by myself because half the time in 204 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 3: a museum you're either waiting for your friends or family 205 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 3: or you're looking for them or whatever. And this was 206 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 3: so nice. And then I remember getting I was like, 207 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 3: I gotta check in on Mona, right, I gotta just 208 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 3: give her a little hello. And I get in there 209 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 3: and it's the exact opposite of what you're saying. It 210 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 3: was so crowded and full of people in this huge hall, 211 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 3: and like we were saying before, it's small, like it's 212 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,439 Speaker 3: not a big painting, and they're trying to shuffle people through. 213 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 3: But I just remember standing. I was probably like a 214 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 3: couple like one hundred feet back, and I just kind 215 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 3: of was like, Hey, Mona, good to see you. We're 216 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 3: gonna make sure we're in Paris at the same time 217 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 3: soon so that you can give me like a backstage tour. 218 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: I will absolutely ask if we can go back. 219 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 3: All right, So back into the story. After an hour 220 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 3: of frantic searching, the detectives uncovered an empty glass frame 221 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 3: in a service stairwell. It was La Gioconda's frame. She 222 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 3: had seemingly vanished into thin air. 223 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: And just like that, bad news fairs. 224 00:12:55,240 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, a massive international scandal erupted Mona's gentle smirk, peppered 225 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 3: the front pages of newspapers around the globe. And here's 226 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 3: the thing. At the time, the Mona Lisa was certainly 227 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 3: considered a masterpiece. Leonardo da Vinci really didn't was not prolific. 228 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 3: I mean, I think he had only like twenty five ish, 229 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 3: I don't know the exact number, but a small number 230 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 3: of paintings, and so this was it was definitely it 231 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,079 Speaker 3: had incredible value and was a masterpiece. But it wasn't 232 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 3: that well known. It wasn't especially outside of France. But 233 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 3: almost overnight she just was thrust into the cultural spotlight 234 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 3: and became the most famous painting in the entire world. 235 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 3: You and I know a little bit about fame. Was 236 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 3: your transition into a famous person sudden or gradual? Has 237 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 3: it been? Was it difficult? 238 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: Ah. The phrase that comes to mind is a baptism 239 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: by fire. Sure did it feel that way for you? 240 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, there's certainly these moments where you're just like, 241 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:06,839 Speaker 3: oh my god, like what just happened to reality? It's 242 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 3: it's like so different. 243 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, certainly it was a shocking experience for 244 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,439 Speaker 1: all of us who worked together on One Tree Hill, 245 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: which was my first like a regular gig on a 246 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: TV show. I think for me it was especially arresting 247 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: because I had gone to an all girls, like super 248 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: nerdy prep school. I know, you're shocked when I'm talking 249 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: about like global systems of oppression. You're like, gee, I 250 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: there were fifty five girls in my graduating class. Like, 251 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: I had no kind of experience with the world outside 252 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: of gorgeous academia. And I'm so grateful for it. My 253 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: passion for learning, my obsession with knowledge, the way I 254 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: was encouraged, especially in science, which so many girls are not. 255 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: I'm so grateful for it. But I did that. Then 256 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: I went to college for three years and was literally 257 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: a philanthropy chair like Nerd all the way through, kind 258 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: of trying to get my bearings. Sure, and to be clear, 259 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: I started working on my first TV show in two 260 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: thousand and three, So like this was the era that 261 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: literally we drove Britney spears to madness. Like the press 262 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: was not good to women in the early aughts. It 263 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: called everyone fat, it called everyone's sluts. It was just 264 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: it was horrible and to like put a hat on 265 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: a hat. Not only am I working on a teen 266 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: TV show which is high drama, all sexy, all the 267 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: things I'd literally never experienced, but I'm playing the like 268 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: captain of the cheer squad who's a vixen, And. 269 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 3: I'm like, what is a vixen? 270 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: Like I I like, I read the news for fun. 271 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 3: What are we doing right? 272 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: And so it was really weird for me because I 273 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 1: just didn't like, I look back at photos and I 274 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: feel like I can like see the goog behind my ears, 275 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: like I had just hatched and I didn't know anything. 276 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: I didn't know that a journalist could ask you a 277 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: question and you didn't have to answer it. 278 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 3: I now like to say, when I get asked a 279 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 3: question I don't want to answer, I just say pass, 280 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 3: which is really fun because reporters are like, wait, what 281 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 3: you can't pass? Next? Yeah? Just next question. They're like, yeah, 282 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 3: you can't pass, Like, yeah I can. I'm passing on 283 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 3: your question. Yeah, instead I'm doing, oh my god, use that, 284 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 3: by the way, pass it around. 285 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: I will say, like, given what that journey was, like, 286 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: I'm I'm also kind of really proud of myself. I'm 287 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: like the fact that I'm not like sitting in the 288 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: corner chewing my hair feels like a fucking miracle. So 289 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: I think we did good. I don't know, Amen, how 290 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: old were you when things really like exploded in your career. 291 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 3: I was an adult, Like, I have very little to 292 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 3: complain about. I was an adult, but I also matured 293 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 3: very late as a human being. I was. I was 294 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 3: an adult by the numbers, but I was still very 295 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 3: much a child I was. I really appreciate that I 296 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 3: was twenty eight when I got on The Daily Show. 297 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 3: But that's kind of like what we called toy fame 298 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 3: because it was basic cable and it was like, and 299 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 3: you know, it grew while I was on the show, 300 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 3: but it was it wasn't you know. I wasn't getting 301 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 3: like chased by reporters or anything or tabloids. Yeah, but 302 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 3: then the office then sort of kicked things up a 303 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 3: major notch, and then of course the hangover. It was 304 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 3: just like, oh God, wow, here you go. Here we are. 305 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 3: This is like a whole new thing. 306 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 1: But here's the thing. It never ceases being weird. 307 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 3: No, it's always weird, because. 308 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:43,360 Speaker 1: Like I am an adult and it's still so weird. 309 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 3: Let's take a trip back to the fifteen hundreds. 310 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: Hit me. 311 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 3: One of the greatest Renaissance artists, Leonardo da Vinci, painted 312 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 3: the Mona Lisa between fifteen oh three and fifteen oh six. 313 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 3: Now why why did he paint this, this variouscial painting. 314 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 3: Well because wealthy Florentine merchant Francesco del Giocondo commissioned Da 315 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:12,439 Speaker 3: Vinci to paint a portrait of his wife, Lisa Gerandini. Giocondo, 316 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 3: also the source of the painting's Italian nickname La Gioconda 317 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 3: or in French, la jaconde. The literal translation of that 318 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 3: is the joyful one or the happy woman, which is 319 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 3: a play on both her married name Giocondo and and 320 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 3: her expression in the painting. Francesco never actually paid for 321 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 3: the painting, so Da Vinci held on to it and 322 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 3: wound up taking it with him when he moved to 323 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 3: France in fifteen sixteen. At the request of King Francois 324 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 3: the first. This is not fact per se, but this 325 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 3: is generally the historian's consensus. It's kind of the closest 326 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 3: we can get. According to the Louvers records, King Francoise 327 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 3: was enamored with the work and officially purchased the Mona 328 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 3: Lisa from Da Vinci in fifteen eighteen. Da Vinci would 329 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 3: sadly pass away a short while later in fifteen nineteen. 330 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 3: He was sixty seven years old, which is like pretty 331 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 3: ripe for that time period. Yeah, so this is when 332 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 3: mon Lisa sort of started bouncing around. She would move 333 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 3: from French leader to French leader, allegedly sitting in King Francois, 334 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 3: King Francis's bathroom for a short stant, then onto the 335 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 3: fontine Bleau Palace. Later, Louis the fourteenth would place her 336 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 3: at the Palace of Versailles, and then Napoleon would keep 337 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 3: her in his own private bedchambers. How intimate apparently he 338 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 3: referred to her. He referred to her as the quote 339 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:48,160 Speaker 3: Sphinx of the occident. I think this is really evidence 340 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 3: of the spell that this painting can cast on people. 341 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 3: That she wasn't just hung in a hall somewhere she 342 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:00,959 Speaker 3: was like in private quarters for people intimate. Mona Lisa 343 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 3: was established as part of the French Royal collection eventually 344 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 3: and was transferred to the Louver. 345 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: Accordingly, question, yeah, question, professor, Yeah, who transferred her to 346 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: the French collection? 347 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 3: Like there was a moment. That's a great question, and 348 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:19,919 Speaker 3: I don't know the precise answer, but there was a 349 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 3: moment where the royal collection was in the late seventeen hundreds, 350 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,479 Speaker 3: the Royal collection was made public. It was made to 351 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 3: be sort of owned by the French people, and that's 352 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 3: when a lot of that art made it into the Louver, 353 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 3: which is Yeah, So the Louver first began showing the 354 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 3: Mona Lisa on public display in eighteen oh four. Fast 355 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 3: forward about a century and the Mona Lisa belonged to 356 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 3: the people of France, sitting comfortably in the salon carre 357 00:20:55,800 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 3: of the Louver along with various other masterpieces. This is 358 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 3: before it was it got its own sort of gallery. 359 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 3: But one former employee of the Louver believed that maybe 360 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 3: she belonged elsewhere. 361 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: Don't done, Yeah, you need the law and order like 362 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: bumpo done. 363 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 3: Now we get into the height. So we're back in 364 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 3: nineteen eleven, and the heist of the twentieth century was 365 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 3: all like Gray Poupon. So who took the Mona Lisa? Well? 366 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 3: Was it an international crime syndicate? Was it Napoleon's ghost 367 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 3: desperate for some new bedroom decorps? Was it a time 368 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 3: traveling banksy? Perhaps No, it is none of the above. No, no, 369 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 3: but yeah, and now there is a swarm of detectives, 370 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 3: sixty some odd detectives, following a myriad of leads, and 371 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 3: all the while she is actually actually just a few 372 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 3: blocks over from the Louver, resting in a trunk with 373 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 3: a fall bottom, owned by a man named Vincenzo Perugia. 374 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 3: I think we have a photo of Vincenzo here. Let's 375 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:09,160 Speaker 3: take a look at this man. 376 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 1: Look at him. 377 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 3: A literal mustache twirl, Yeah, yeah, a little bit of 378 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 3: a yeah. I mean, he's he's he's got that energy. 379 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 3: He's Italian. He's an Italian immigrant and living in Paris, 380 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 3: something of a handyman, and he had been employed at 381 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 3: the Louver. 382 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: Interesting. 383 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,919 Speaker 3: There are various reports of how the act of the 384 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 3: heist actually went down, but all told, it was quite seamless. 385 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 3: Perugia had been employed by the louver and and in fact, 386 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,159 Speaker 3: in one of his duties, he had helped construct the 387 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,880 Speaker 3: glass case that held the Mona Lisa, so he knew 388 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 3: exactly how it sort of came together and came apart, 389 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:58,160 Speaker 3: and precisely how to remove her quite carefully. Now interesting 390 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 3: side note, he apparently suffered a lot of discrimination as 391 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 3: an Italian immigrant in France and had a bit of 392 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 3: a grudge against French society, which he will claim played 393 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 3: into his actions. And as we'll learn later, on Monday 394 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:21,679 Speaker 3: August twenty first, nineteen eleven, Perugia entered the museum at 395 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 3: a time when it was only open to staff mondays 396 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 3: were cleaning days. Now some reports say he actually hid 397 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 3: the night before in a supply closet and then e 398 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 3: merged on that Monday morning. In any case, he was 399 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:37,400 Speaker 3: wearing a workman's smock, so kind of, you know, fit 400 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 3: in with the staff. He snuck into the hall removed 401 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 3: the painting in this glass case, which at that time 402 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 3: they weren't they were worried about, I guess about graffiti 403 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 3: and things. So it did have a glass case. It's 404 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 3: nothing like the bulletproof thing it's behind now, but and 405 00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 3: it weighed, it was quite heavy, but he got it 406 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 3: off the wall. Other reports say he had two accomplices. 407 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 3: There's different, different details floating around, but managed to get 408 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 3: this bulky glass case into a stairwell where he was 409 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,640 Speaker 3: able to open the case and pull out just the painting, 410 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 3: this piece of poplar with some oil paint on it, 411 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 3: and then he just was able to stroll out onto 412 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 3: the Rue de Revoulie. Yes, another cool, sort of fun detail. 413 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 3: He actually found himself locked in to the louver because 414 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 3: it was a working day. They weren't allowing you know, 415 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 3: the public in on this on this Monday, and he 416 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 3: wasn't able to get out the way he thought. But 417 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 3: then a plumber, a louve like staff plumber walked up 418 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 3: and was like, no problem, I'll help you out. Here 419 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 3: you go, and like helped him through the door. So 420 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 3: off he goes, and he's carrying the painting just down 421 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,400 Speaker 3: the street under his smock apparently. 422 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: Can you imagine. 423 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it's it's nuts. It's nuts. The anxiety I 424 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:17,159 Speaker 3: feel like what makes me not a criminal mastermind is 425 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 3: like I as soon as I even start to think 426 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 3: about that, I just start sweating. 427 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,679 Speaker 1: By the way I am, it is so far in 428 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: the degree of panic for me, even when I know 429 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: I've done nothing wrong. Exactly, if you were like, hey, hey, 430 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: I need to talk to you later, I'd be like, 431 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: what have I done? What don't I remember? 432 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 3: And then you're what I maybe do and not the 433 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,199 Speaker 3: same way? What is what? What childhood trauma led us 434 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,719 Speaker 3: into this? It's so annoying, I mean, and like this, 435 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 3: And it's also very interesting this that that fear of 436 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 3: being perceived as guilty can can actually make you act 437 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:57,120 Speaker 3: more guilty. Uh and and this is a this will 438 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 3: this is this will emerge in just a few minutes. 439 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: And here's the thing. And I bet you get this. 440 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: When you're an actor, people think you must be a 441 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 1: good liar, and I'm like, no, I memorize other people's words. 442 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: I can't come up with them on my own. I'm 443 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: not like a liar on the Flygh. 444 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm bad at that. 445 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: Exactly did he get caught because he was a panicky 446 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 1: little potato? 447 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 3: No? No, no, no he didn't. But it gets interesting. 448 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 3: So local police concluded that they just eventually, it took 449 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 3: like twenty four hours talking to the photographer and you know, 450 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 3: looking everywhere, they finally realized like this thing is gone 451 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 3: like it's stolen, and word spread fast news reports began 452 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 3: to extend beyond Paris, and in short order it just 453 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,400 Speaker 3: became a global scandal, like how could such a prominent 454 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 3: museum lose one of their masterpieces. A French publication called 455 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 3: lilos Stracion wrote quote, what audacious criminal, what mystifier? What 456 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 3: maniac collector? What insane lover has committed this abduction? 457 00:26:58,080 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: Insane lover? 458 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 3: Yes? Like a French publication goes right to like he 459 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 3: must love this painting. He's an insane lover. Or he's 460 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 3: doing it for his lover's love. 461 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: He is obsessed with her, he loves his mona Lisa. 462 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 3: Oh it's so good, it's so French. I love it. 463 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 3: The New York Times Correspondent posted an article claiming offers 464 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,479 Speaker 3: of five million dollars for its return. Now that's it's 465 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 3: unclear if those were actually real, but that's more than 466 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 3: one hundred and sixty nine million dollars in today's money. 467 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 3: Oh my god, it's not feeling worth it. 468 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: I mean, if you paid me one hundred and sixty 469 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: nine million dollars, would I try to steal something for someone? 470 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: But I wouldn't be able to pull it off. So no, 471 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: I can. I can ask myself the question, but I 472 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: already know even in theory, I'm going to fail. 473 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 3: Oh boy. The art curator of the louver said that 474 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 3: he had a gut feeling that it was stolen, so 475 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 3: that the would attempt to copy it, but he wasn't. 476 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 3: He wasn't gonna let that or even like return a 477 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 3: copy and hold on to the original. But he would 478 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 3: not let that fly because quote, I studied the picture 479 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 3: for years, mounted and unmounted. I know every minor detail 480 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 3: of it, and I would recognize a copy, however perfect 481 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 3: after five minutes observation. Okay, so that's a quote so 482 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 3: obviously quite cocky about his painting analysis skills, but but 483 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,439 Speaker 3: it's actually true. Because he was an expert as as 484 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 3: the curator of the loop, he knew a lot about 485 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 3: what's called crack colure, which is the tiny little cracks 486 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 3: and fissures that form over time. And as an oil 487 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,959 Speaker 3: painting ages, the Mona Lisa upclose is quite cracked like 488 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 3: it is, it's covered in sort of checking and cracking, 489 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 3: and that is that is that becomes something of a 490 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 3: DNA signature or a fingerprint for a painting because that's 491 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 3: virtually impossible to duplicate. You can duplicate the cracking, but 492 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 3: to match cracking, Yeah, exactly, it's not gonna It's just 493 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 3: gonna be impossible. So naturally, lots of odd theories and 494 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 3: false accusations are flying all around. One claimed the JP Morgan, 495 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 3: the American banker, had the picture stolen so that he 496 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 3: could keep it in his private collection. Yeah. A renowned 497 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 3: poet by the name of Guillame Aoignier became a suspect. 498 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 3: He was forgive my French accent, by the way, I'm 499 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 3: very like, I'm kind of cocky about it, but I 500 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 3: know it's terrible. 501 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: It's not terrible. 502 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 3: So apore was one of the rare folks who apparently 503 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 3: was not a fan of the painting, and at one 504 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 3: point had joked about burning the louver down. But he 505 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 3: was like he was kind of a sort of counterculture poet, bohemian, 506 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 3: just in the like almost like a comic. Sure. Yeah, 507 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 3: and he was well known and he was something of 508 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 3: celebrity in the in the in French sort of artistic 509 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 3: culture at the time. A Poigniere's trail led to a 510 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 3: shocking second suspect, Pablo Picasso. What yes, isn't this wild? 511 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 3: They thought that Picasso might have stolen the Mona Lisa 512 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 3: shut up? For what? Well, the link between a poigniere 513 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 3: and Picasso was this shady buddy that they had, who 514 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 3: had who had stolen Iberian busts for them from the Louver, 515 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 3: like they did have stolen property from the louver. 516 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: We why why? 517 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 3: Why? Why? 518 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 1: Because they wanted to learn to copy them or just 519 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: because they thought it was like funny and they were 520 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: a bunch of crazy drunks. 521 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 3: I don't know the I don't know the truth of 522 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 3: that answer, but I do know, well, could you not know? Well, 523 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 3: Picasso did also paint one of the busts, so it 524 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 3: was for artistic reasons presumably, but like, also, why a 525 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 3: stolen thing? Anyway? It's so badass that Picasso had a 526 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 3: stolen bust from the. 527 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 1: Loop, it really is. It makes me like him more. 528 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 3: Police investigated them, and this is where that guilty thing 529 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 3: it gets in, because I read a thing about how 530 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 3: they were questioned and Picasso was so terrified and overwhelmed 531 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 3: with fear that that he was sobbing and me yeah, 532 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 3: and and and acting so guilty that they were just like, uh, 533 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 3: you couldn't have done this. 534 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 2: You're not. 535 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 3: You're too much of a whimp. You're not. You don't 536 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 3: have the sort of like fortitude to pull something like 537 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 3: this off. But it is a wild connection. Anyway, After 538 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 3: considerable questioning, both Are and Pablo Picasso were were let 539 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 3: go and uh and they were not suspects any longer. 540 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 3: Another two years goes by Sophia Bush. They don't, they 541 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 3: don't find it. Two years, two years, and they're starting 542 00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 3: to think, oh my god, maybe the Mona Lisa is 543 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 3: gone forever. Until in December of nineteen thirteen, a Florentine 544 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 3: art and antiquities dealer Alfredo Jeri, Now I do have 545 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 3: now my Italian accident is horrific, but I'm just gonna 546 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 3: I'm diving all in, Alfredo Jeri. I also like to 547 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 3: do it like this. I put on this voice for 548 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 3: a Brando. Yeah. 549 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: Sure. 550 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 3: He received an odd correspondence from a man calling himself, 551 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 3: wait for it, Leonard or Leonardo perhaps yeah, calling himself Leonardo. 552 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 3: This mystery man claimed he had stolen the Mona Lisa 553 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 3: and wanted to return it to its birthplace, Italy. Wow, 554 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 3: so he's now claiming that he stole it for patriotic reasons. 555 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 3: Jari was suspicious but intrigued. He agreed to meet with 556 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 3: this mysterious Leonard at the Tripoli Italia Hotel in Florence, 557 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 3: and brought along with him the Uffizi Gallery director Giovanni Polgi. Okay, 558 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 3: the Offizi Gallery obviously being like the louver of Italy. 559 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 3: And this guy knows his ship, let's put it that way. 560 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 3: So the three men arranged to meet in Leonard's hotel room, 561 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 3: where a wooden trunk was waiting Leonyard removed a false 562 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 3: bottom from the trunk, and they're wrapped in a red 563 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 3: silk cloth. Was the Mona lis is the jacund one? 564 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,479 Speaker 3: Pretty dramatic reveal, right, a red silken cloth. 565 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: This is really giving Thomas Crown affair? 566 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 3: Yes right, and I like it. I do too. So 567 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 3: are Italian art dealers. They're no fools. They they are 568 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 3: like pretty sure this is the real deal, and they 569 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 3: play it very cool. They confirm its authenticity, and Jeri 570 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 3: and Polgi pretended to agree to this to Leonard's asking 571 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 3: price of one hundred thousand dollars, and they sort of 572 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 3: kept him on the hook. Now that's one hundred thousand 573 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 3: dollars at that time is three million dollars to day. 574 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 3: It's not too shabby. And this is the primary thing 575 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 3: that sort of throws his patriotic motives into question. Right, 576 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 3: He's like, he's also kind of asking for a big 577 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:23,720 Speaker 3: paycheck here. 578 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 1: Right, He's like, no, I'm doing it for Italy, but 579 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:27,800 Speaker 1: also for my retirement. 580 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 3: He's like my Italian bride, but also not give me 581 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,920 Speaker 3: a little cheddar. Right, that's like a little Mozarella with 582 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:37,760 Speaker 3: this perhaps, and that tracks for a thief, Yeah, exactly. 583 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 3: So they told Leonard that they needed to take the 584 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 3: painting to the Afizi gallery to further confirm that it 585 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 3: was the. 586 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 1: Real thing before they paid him. 587 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. But then, of course they immediately alerted the police 588 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:54,840 Speaker 3: and Perugia was arrested the next day on December eleventh, 589 00:34:54,920 --> 00:35:00,040 Speaker 3: nineteen thirteen, in his hotel room. Boom caught in the 590 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,240 Speaker 3: at Perugia. Yeah, they got him, they snagged. 591 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 1: Him, They got him. 592 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. 593 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: Wait, but so then what happened? What happened to the 594 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 1: handyman from the Louver and everybody else involved? 595 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 3: Well, Perugia is that handyman? 596 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 1: Oh he is the handyman? Yes? Oh gosh, sorry, I 597 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:17,359 Speaker 1: don't know why. 598 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:18,720 Speaker 3: He held on to it for years. 599 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 1: I'm wondering, do you think that it was always his 600 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,320 Speaker 1: plan to, you know, do it for the home country, 601 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 1: or do you do you think he wanted to like 602 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: see if he could and then it was such a 603 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 1: scandal that he kept it in a trunk and was. 604 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,919 Speaker 3: Like, oh shit, well what do I do? 605 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 1: Or maybe it was a little mixed up. 606 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 3: It's a bit of columns A, B, and C here, 607 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 3: because you know, it was there is evidence that that 608 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 3: he did suffer discrimination and had a grudge against sort 609 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 3: of French society culture, and also that that this painting 610 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 3: being such an icon of Italian culture and Italian uh 611 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 3: sort of sort of brilliance and excellence in the arts, 612 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 3: his having a sort of it would it would clock 613 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,840 Speaker 3: that he would then see that as a as a 614 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 3: as a sort of righteous target to take and and 615 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 3: as almost as like a punishment to the French. That 616 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 3: this is my speculation. I don't know how much evidence 617 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 3: there is of this, but but I think, uh it, 618 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 3: but this sort of tracks in my mind. And and 619 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 3: then realizing after a couple of years that like he's 620 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,760 Speaker 3: sitting on a seriously hot potato that he can't sell 621 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,400 Speaker 3: or like there's no one that that will fence the 622 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,359 Speaker 3: Mona Lisa after especially after like worldwide headlines. And then 623 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:36,919 Speaker 3: he's like, Okay, now I have to sort of create 624 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 3: this narrative that I can sell it to these Italians, uh, 625 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 3: for the for the right reasons, and maybe they'll like 626 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 3: buy it and let me sort of be stay anonymous. 627 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 3: But of course they're like, no, you're busted, like you. 628 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, they're like, we're not stupid. We can't hang this 629 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 1: in our museum and be like. 630 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,879 Speaker 3: Yeah, oh look what we found. We just floated down 631 00:36:58,880 --> 00:36:59,279 Speaker 3: the river. 632 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 1: But now that it's here, we're not gonna we're not 633 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 1: sending it back. 634 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 3: It doesn't work like exactly all right, So Perusia, Uh, 635 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 3: this is this is really cool. Perusia also said that 636 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,359 Speaker 3: over time he felt he quote fell victim to her 637 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 3: smile and feasted my eyes on my treasure every evening. 638 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 3: I fell in love with her, he said, which is uh, 639 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,440 Speaker 3: which is more sort of evidence of her, her spell, 640 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:34,800 Speaker 3: her her sort of mystical powers. But but yeah, wow, 641 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 3: she was a hot she was a hot. Yeah, she 642 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:44,839 Speaker 3: was a hot hot to Molly. There After, of course 643 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:46,880 Speaker 3: this was all discovered and he was arrested and and 644 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 3: uh found guilty. It was returned to France, and we 645 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 3: have a photo of It's of of her giddy homecoming 646 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 3: at the Louver. Let's see. Wow, obviously a huge party. 647 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:03,760 Speaker 3: You can see how everyone's dancing with reckless abandon and glee. Yes, 648 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 3: I love how the guy holding her looks like her legs. 649 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, a little bit of something. 650 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,360 Speaker 3: You can kind of see. You can't see the guy's 651 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 3: face who's actually holding the painting, but you can see 652 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:17,439 Speaker 3: his legs. 653 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 1: You can see his little top hat. 654 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, right, right, right, Yeah, it. 655 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,239 Speaker 1: Almost feels like he'd pop through the frame where it 656 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:25,760 Speaker 1: not so valuable. 657 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 3: I wish we could go back to this, this style. 658 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 3: I love all the mustaches and top hats and trench coats. 659 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 3: Although I must say they do look hot, like I mean, 660 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,239 Speaker 3: they look hot as in like like spicy hot, but 661 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 3: they also look like they're probably sweating under all that wool. 662 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,399 Speaker 1: Yeah. It's also one of those things like I don't 663 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 1: know about you, but we have air conditioning and like 664 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:49,279 Speaker 1: we can wear linen in the summer now. 665 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. 666 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,239 Speaker 1: I look at pictures like this and I think, like, oh, 667 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 1: I know why they used to have fainting couches. 668 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,799 Speaker 3: Yeah, there you go, it makes sense, you go. I 669 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,799 Speaker 3: love that, you know. So right upon Mona Lisa's return 670 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:01,840 Speaker 3: to France, everyone wanted to get an eye on this 671 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 3: new mythical painting. Over one hundred twenty thousand people came 672 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 3: to see her in just two days. Da Vinci's painting 673 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 3: had exploded into the cultural stratosphere. All the press and 674 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,840 Speaker 3: news coverage took the painting to the next level. So 675 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:23,399 Speaker 3: what happened to our man Vincenzo Perugia, the art thief. Well, 676 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,360 Speaker 3: he was tried in Italy, where he again he claimed 677 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,279 Speaker 3: that he was stealing the painting for patriotic reasons. He 678 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 3: became something of a folk hero and he was sentenced 679 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,520 Speaker 3: to a year in prison, but he wound up only 680 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 3: serving about seven months before this is right before World 681 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:43,200 Speaker 3: War One, which then broke out, and he left prison, 682 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,440 Speaker 3: joined the army, fought for Italy, and then wound up 683 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,399 Speaker 3: dying in France in nineteen twenty five. 684 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 1: Oh gie. 685 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:55,920 Speaker 3: As for La Gioconda, her smile still smites eight million 686 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,319 Speaker 3: visitors per year. Eight million visitors go and see the 687 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:04,000 Speaker 3: Monaliese ever year, which is that's insane and She's so 688 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,560 Speaker 3: popular that she has her own mailbox at the Louver 689 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,720 Speaker 3: because she gets so much direct fan mail. 690 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 1: What an odd thing to write a letter to a painting. Yeah, interesting, 691 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,839 Speaker 1: I guess when I when I hear you say eight 692 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,880 Speaker 1: million people a year ago to France to visit her, 693 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 1: I think, Look, the guy was clearly misguided and obviously 694 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,839 Speaker 1: a little fantastical in his storytelling about his motivations. But 695 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,080 Speaker 1: that's a whole lot of money France has made on 696 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:34,400 Speaker 1: this painting and not Italy. 697 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,880 Speaker 3: You're raising a really interesting, uh, really interesting question that 698 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,239 Speaker 3: that I think this story brings up. There are a 699 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 3: couple of I think, kind of high altitude takeaways from 700 00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:53,160 Speaker 3: this story. One is is just how the narrative around 701 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 3: the Mona Lisa, like her theft, the scandal, the recovery, 702 00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,759 Speaker 3: it just it became as important and exciting as the painting. 703 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,080 Speaker 3: It's and it's it's a kind of a reflection of 704 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:09,840 Speaker 3: how the story of something can almost matter more than 705 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,839 Speaker 3: just the reality of it, right. I mean, that's certainly true. 706 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 3: I think for celebrities, like we celebrities cultivate stories and 707 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 3: kind of narratives, we often find out like, oh, that 708 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 3: person was not what we thought. I don't just mean celebrities, 709 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,600 Speaker 3: I mean like public figures, politicians, whoever. 710 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 1: They'll kind of cast you as a character correct rather 711 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:35,600 Speaker 1: than highlight your reality. And the interesting thing is, I 712 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,879 Speaker 1: think when you become a media figure, if that if 713 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:43,279 Speaker 1: there is a character that is not accurate or not 714 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:47,600 Speaker 1: honoring the nuance of your life, but it's profitable to others, 715 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:49,080 Speaker 1: it's the one that will. 716 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 3: Prevail, and that's sucks. 717 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 1: And so I think there's something really interesting about I 718 00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,360 Speaker 1: don't know, it's crazy to me that this woman, the 719 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:07,120 Speaker 1: Mona Lisa, seems to be a person in our cultural lexicon. 720 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 1: I mean she gets fan mail, yeah, and she's a painting. 721 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:13,400 Speaker 1: There's there's a there's something wild about you. 722 00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 3: She's she's magical. In my view, it sort of took 723 00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,719 Speaker 3: this heist for people to truly see like how sort 724 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:23,600 Speaker 3: of mystical and powerful she is. And obviously Leonardo da 725 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 3: Vinci is such a legend for so many reasons as 726 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,880 Speaker 3: a scientist and a painter and all these things, and 727 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,000 Speaker 3: and this is this, this work is truly special. 728 00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:38,080 Speaker 1: It almost strikes me like it's momentum, circular momentum. Something 729 00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,719 Speaker 1: started it, and I would wager that to your point 730 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,320 Speaker 1: at the top of the episode, you know, the haze, 731 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,560 Speaker 1: the kind of the colors, the way her eyes follow you, 732 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:52,640 Speaker 1: things that had never been done before were very arresting 733 00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,880 Speaker 1: for people. But then people like to feel like they're 734 00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,719 Speaker 1: in on something, so when they hear that this thing 735 00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:01,600 Speaker 1: is very arresting, then they say, oh, I was so 736 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,840 Speaker 1: arrested by this painting, and then the whole thing just grows. 737 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:09,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, this story also very much raises the very real 738 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:18,840 Speaker 3: question about repatriation. Of course, Perugia was I think, claiming 739 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,440 Speaker 3: that he was repatriating the Mona Lisa for sort of 740 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:27,960 Speaker 3: cynical reasons to maybe help exonerate himself, although there probably 741 00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:31,680 Speaker 3: was also some national pride that wrapped up in him 742 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:37,440 Speaker 3: or resentment for French culture. But the idea of returning 743 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:41,480 Speaker 3: cultural treasures to their rightful home is a very real one, 744 00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:46,359 Speaker 3: and it's something that has bubbled up more and more, 745 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:52,280 Speaker 3: and I think just for example, the Netherlands recently returned 746 00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:56,200 Speaker 3: one hundred and nineteen bronzes to Nigeria which had been 747 00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:00,680 Speaker 3: looted in the nineteenth century, and you know, they're finally 748 00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:02,880 Speaker 3: back where they belong after one hundred and thirty years. 749 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:08,479 Speaker 3: To me, that's inspiring proof that even old injustices can 750 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:12,560 Speaker 3: be addressed through yes, through dialogue. It takes an honest 751 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,480 Speaker 3: accounting of history to kind of get to these places. 752 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,920 Speaker 3: A lot of museums are now experimenting with shared custody 753 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,880 Speaker 3: of items, rotating collections, so that people around the world 754 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:28,960 Speaker 3: can access all of this history, and that reminds me 755 00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,799 Speaker 3: of like, you know, when we're kids, our parents being like, 756 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:36,560 Speaker 3: you have to share those toys, right, to share those books, right, 757 00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:39,919 Speaker 3: everybody gets a turn. And it strikes me that whether 758 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:44,040 Speaker 3: we're talking about art or stories or history itself, the 759 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:47,600 Speaker 3: more we treat it as something to be passed around 760 00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:51,480 Speaker 3: and experienced by everyone, the richer it all becomes. I 761 00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,239 Speaker 3: don't know, I think that's something that's some hopeful shit. 762 00:44:55,400 --> 00:45:01,560 Speaker 1: Yeah it is. It's almost like learning about other cultures 763 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:06,000 Speaker 1: is cool, gett a get here. 764 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's almost it's almost like learning about history is cool. 765 00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,399 Speaker 1: Doesn't make me cool pretty, I don't know, it's pretty cool. 766 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:18,880 Speaker 3: I think so, Sophia Bush, you are extremely cool. This 767 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,719 Speaker 3: has been so so hard cool. I feel like I 768 00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,200 Speaker 3: run into you every like, I don't know, it's like 769 00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,080 Speaker 3: a year a couple of years ago by I get 770 00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,040 Speaker 3: that and then I get the high five you somewhere, 771 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,880 Speaker 3: and this has been like such a fun hang and 772 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:34,400 Speaker 3: I'm so grateful that you came on. 773 00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:40,920 Speaker 1: Thanks in a world that is odd to know you 774 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,839 Speaker 1: have like fellow history nerds out there. Feels good. 775 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:49,680 Speaker 3: Yeah we got homies, Yeah we do. Snapoo is a 776 00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:54,200 Speaker 3: production of iHeart Podcasts and Snapoo Media, a partnership between 777 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:58,000 Speaker 3: Film Nation Entertainment and Pacific Electric Picture Company. Our post 778 00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:01,840 Speaker 3: production studio is Gilded Audio. Our executive producers are me 779 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:06,520 Speaker 3: Ed Helms, Mike Falbo, Glenn Basner, Andy Kim Whitney, Donaldson, 780 00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:10,719 Speaker 3: and Dylan Fagan. This episode was produced by Alyssa Martino 781 00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:14,920 Speaker 3: and Tory Smith. Our video editor is Jared Smith. Technical 782 00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:18,640 Speaker 3: direction and engineering from Nick Dooley. Our creative executive is 783 00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:22,640 Speaker 3: Brett Harris. Logo and branding by The Collected Works. Legal 784 00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:27,280 Speaker 3: review from Dan Welsh, Meghan Halson and Caroline Johnson. Special 785 00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,640 Speaker 3: thanks to Isaac Dunham, Adam Horn, Lane Klein and everyone 786 00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:35,720 Speaker 3: at iHeart Podcasts, but especially Will Pearson, Kerry Lieberman, Nikki Etoor, 787 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:40,520 Speaker 3: Nathan O'towski and Alex Corral. While I have you don't 788 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,600 Speaker 3: forget to pick up a copy of my book, Snafoo, 789 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:47,640 Speaker 3: The Definitive Guide to History's Greatest screw Ups. It's available 790 00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:52,000 Speaker 3: now from any book retailer. Just go to Snaffoo dashbook 791 00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:56,040 Speaker 3: dot com. Thanks for listening, and see you next week.