1
00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:08,280
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and you're listening to stuff I've

2
00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:23,040
Speaker 1: never told you. A lot has happened since we released

3
00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:25,840
Speaker 1: this episode, looking at the Yoko Ono effect and how

4
00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,360
Speaker 1: it played out with folks blaming Ariana Grande about Mac

5
00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:33,080
Speaker 1: Miller's death. Pete Davidson and Ariana Grande broke up and

6
00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,640
Speaker 1: she released to Thank You Next, which was a huge

7
00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:41,920
Speaker 1: hit and it inspired all of these parodies. It was

8
00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,159
Speaker 1: a really big deal, and Pete Davidson was being her

9
00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,560
Speaker 1: ass online by her fans for nine months. He even

10
00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:52,080
Speaker 1: addressed it an Instagram post in Arianna Grande erstra fans

11
00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:56,720
Speaker 1: to be gentler. Things escalated on December when Pete Davidson

12
00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,720
Speaker 1: posted a note on Instagram that had some suicidal id

13
00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,800
Speaker 1: shin and while some were supportive and voice concern, other

14
00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:09,240
Speaker 1: people were terrible, encouraging Davidson to self harm. As of

15
00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,600
Speaker 1: recording this, He's fine, Please did do wellness check and

16
00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,720
Speaker 1: he briefly appeared on Saturday Night Live. That night, he

17
00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,920
Speaker 1: deleted all of his social media accounts. And this is

18
00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:23,480
Speaker 1: just a friendly reminder that celebrities are people to words matter.

19
00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,520
Speaker 1: Mental health matters. If you or someone you know is

20
00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:32,240
Speaker 1: struggling with this, The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is to

21
00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,720
Speaker 1: seven three eight to five five, or you can contact

22
00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:40,520
Speaker 1: the crisis text line by texting talk to seven one one.

23
00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:49,120
Speaker 1: Please take care of each other. Everybody, Hey, this is

24
00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,720
Speaker 1: Bridget and this is Annie and you're listening to stuff

25
00:01:51,720 --> 00:02:04,520
Speaker 1: Mom never told you. Today we have to start with

26
00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,400
Speaker 1: a trigger warning. UM, today's episode is going to be

27
00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:12,160
Speaker 1: about addiction and substance abuse and how they pertained to

28
00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,480
Speaker 1: romantic relationships. So if that is a issue that is

29
00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,079
Speaker 1: tough for you, just know that is what today's episode

30
00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:22,080
Speaker 1: is all about. You may have seen that musician Mac

31
00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,760
Speaker 1: Miller real name Malcolm McCormick died last week at the

32
00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,400
Speaker 1: age of on September seven of cardiac arrest related to

33
00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:34,320
Speaker 1: a suspected drug overdose. UM. I was a pretty casual

34
00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,720
Speaker 1: fan of Mac Miller's music. When he died, I sort

35
00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,480
Speaker 1: of was a bit sad because I was one of

36
00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,080
Speaker 1: those people that it took him dying for me to

37
00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,320
Speaker 1: go back and revisit some of his earlier work and say,

38
00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:49,280
Speaker 1: oh wow, he actually Um was a really talented musician,

39
00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:51,160
Speaker 1: and I wish I had listened to more of this stuff.

40
00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:55,919
Speaker 1: It was also pretty sad that there was this really interesting, fascinating,

41
00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:00,120
Speaker 1: glowing profile of him in Vulture magazine that came out, like,

42
00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,600
Speaker 1: I think, just two days before he died, And in

43
00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,080
Speaker 1: that piece, it really illustrates what an interesting kind of

44
00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,600
Speaker 1: guy he was. Um. He sort of had this this

45
00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,440
Speaker 1: kind of fun loving quality to him that made him

46
00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:16,480
Speaker 1: seem like a genuinely interesting person. When he died, all

47
00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,760
Speaker 1: of these different musicians were talking about all of these

48
00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:21,720
Speaker 1: good memories that they shared with him, and he just

49
00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:26,320
Speaker 1: seemed like someone who was genuinely very beloved. Um. One

50
00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:31,880
Speaker 1: of my favorite vines is him singing TLCS no scrubs. Um.

51
00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:33,720
Speaker 1: I mean, he just seemed like a like a really

52
00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:38,080
Speaker 1: a really good guy, and I think he's one of

53
00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,920
Speaker 1: those musicians. And it seems like he died before he

54
00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:43,920
Speaker 1: really got a chance to sort of show the world

55
00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:45,760
Speaker 1: what he could do. Right like he was, he was,

56
00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,720
Speaker 1: he was pretty young. He was in his twenties um,

57
00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,200
Speaker 1: which of course is very tragic, but he also didn't

58
00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:55,360
Speaker 1: really seem to have his one breakout album. He seemed

59
00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,640
Speaker 1: like he was poised for that moment where he was

60
00:03:57,640 --> 00:03:59,920
Speaker 1: going to become a megastar and sort of died right

61
00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:07,120
Speaker 1: before what happened yeah, I didn't know much about him, um,

62
00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,880
Speaker 1: because I kind of somehow miss a lot of Really

63
00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,400
Speaker 1: I miss a lot in this pop culture world, Bridget,

64
00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:16,440
Speaker 1: and I depend a lot on you, and I have

65
00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,200
Speaker 1: a group of friends who like keep me in the know,

66
00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:24,560
Speaker 1: and I honestly had never heard of him until this happened,

67
00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,480
Speaker 1: which makes me really sad. And it also makes me

68
00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:31,719
Speaker 1: really sad that when you just see this public persona

69
00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,839
Speaker 1: of people and you don't see I don't know. It's

70
00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,920
Speaker 1: just strange when you hear how beloved someone is or

71
00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:41,480
Speaker 1: how much fun they have, and then you see the

72
00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,920
Speaker 1: success and to have something like this happened, it feels

73
00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,640
Speaker 1: really jarring, and it just makes you kind of reconsider

74
00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:52,719
Speaker 1: maybe people that you in your life, or that you

75
00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:58,200
Speaker 1: whose entertainment you consume and enjoy. It's pretty sobering. It

76
00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:00,599
Speaker 1: is sobering. I also think it from finds us that

77
00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,760
Speaker 1: these are real people. Um, it's really really easy to

78
00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:09,000
Speaker 1: forget that you know, the people whose content you enjoy

79
00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,800
Speaker 1: their humans just like us. And it's I think it

80
00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,040
Speaker 1: can be jarring to be confronted with who they actually

81
00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,320
Speaker 1: are and what they're actually dealing with and what you

82
00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,080
Speaker 1: know who they are inside versus the music that they

83
00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:22,960
Speaker 1: make and all of that. And again, I was really

84
00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,840
Speaker 1: surprised to see how many Guy wasn't the biggest Mac

85
00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,320
Speaker 1: Miller fan, but I was surprised to see how many

86
00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,799
Speaker 1: of the musicians and I really love like Flying Lotus

87
00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,680
Speaker 1: and Thundercat were like, no, no, we were very close.

88
00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:36,640
Speaker 1: He was the best, Like he seemed like someone who

89
00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:41,440
Speaker 1: had far reaching um connections in the music industry. And

90
00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:43,320
Speaker 1: I think that's what makes this story so sad. So

91
00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,960
Speaker 1: mac Miller was someone who was very open in both

92
00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,240
Speaker 1: his interviews and in his music about his struggles with

93
00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:53,040
Speaker 1: mental issues and addiction. In a complex interview in Miller

94
00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,400
Speaker 1: admitted to using Lean, which is sort of that that

95
00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:02,280
Speaker 1: coding laced cough syrup that that musicians sometimes abuse um,

96
00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:04,080
Speaker 1: and he said that he used it to deal with depression.

97
00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,640
Speaker 1: He explained that criticism from an album that he had

98
00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,160
Speaker 1: that was a little bit of a flop in led

99
00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,080
Speaker 1: him to rely on this very addictive drug. In this article,

100
00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,839
Speaker 1: he said, I love Lean, it's great. I was not

101
00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,600
Speaker 1: happy and I was on Lean very heavy during the tour.

102
00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,200
Speaker 1: I was so left up all the time. It was bad.

103
00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:23,440
Speaker 1: My friends couldn't even look at me the same I

104
00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:28,400
Speaker 1: was lost. In May, the rapper released his tenth solo mixtape, Faces,

105
00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,640
Speaker 1: which by the way, is really great. On it, he

106
00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,839
Speaker 1: discussed his battle with depression, explaining how, quote a drug

107
00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,560
Speaker 1: habit like Philip Hoffman will probably put me in a coffin,

108
00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,360
Speaker 1: which is a reference to the actor of Philip Seymour Hoffman,

109
00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,440
Speaker 1: who I really loved, who also died a drug related death.

110
00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,920
Speaker 1: Um mac Miller also admitted to having suicidal thoughts before

111
00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,000
Speaker 1: releasing this album, on which he claimed, quote every single

112
00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,080
Speaker 1: song is about coke in drugs. He said that was

113
00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:54,599
Speaker 1: the plan with Grand Finale, the closing song on Faces.

114
00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:56,400
Speaker 1: It was supposed to be the last song I made

115
00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:58,760
Speaker 1: on Earth, But in that interview he said, I don't

116
00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,760
Speaker 1: feel that way anymore. So if you don't know mac Miller,

117
00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:06,080
Speaker 1: you probably know him through his ex girlfriend Ariana Grande Uh.

118
00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,719
Speaker 1: They dated for a while, and Ariana was very very

119
00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,960
Speaker 1: open that their relationship ended because of his issues with

120
00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,720
Speaker 1: mental health and drug abuse. UM, and I think what

121
00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:19,080
Speaker 1: really kind of shocks me about that is that they're

122
00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:23,200
Speaker 1: very young, but their relationships seemed to be very amicable,

123
00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,840
Speaker 1: Like even when they broke up, she was you know, like, oh, I,

124
00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:28,640
Speaker 1: I wish him the best and I love him. He's

125
00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:30,600
Speaker 1: one of my best friends, and I hope he gets better.

126
00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:32,800
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to see what he does in his life. Um,

127
00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,440
Speaker 1: she wrote on Instagram. This is one of my best

128
00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:37,559
Speaker 1: friends in the world and one of my favorite people

129
00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,240
Speaker 1: on the planet. I respect and adore him endlessly, and

130
00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:42,040
Speaker 1: I'm grateful to have him in my life in any

131
00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:44,880
Speaker 1: form at all times, regardless of how our relationship changes

132
00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,240
Speaker 1: or what the universe holds for each of us. And

133
00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,040
Speaker 1: you know, I was not having breakups and where this

134
00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,560
Speaker 1: mature what happens in my twenties, You know, I just

135
00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:55,080
Speaker 1: I found there. I found this to be a very

136
00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:59,160
Speaker 1: for young celebrities. I found this to be kind of

137
00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:04,600
Speaker 1: surpris rising ly transparent and mature. Oh, I agree. When

138
00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:06,400
Speaker 1: I was fifteen, I broke up with this dude in

139
00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,160
Speaker 1: Barnes and Noble because he didn't like tigers enough. That

140
00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:14,240
Speaker 1: was it good reason I would break up with someone

141
00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,680
Speaker 1: over that tigers are awesome. He I. Yeah, I don't

142
00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,920
Speaker 1: think he appreciated fully how awesome tigers were. And that

143
00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:25,800
Speaker 1: was it. That was the last room. Um. When I

144
00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:31,160
Speaker 1: found out about Mac Miller's death. I was with a

145
00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,280
Speaker 1: group of friends, like five friends, and we were all

146
00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,280
Speaker 1: in the same space, and they knew his music and

147
00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,600
Speaker 1: they knew he was and they were fans, and so

148
00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,200
Speaker 1: when they said his name, like I didn't, I wasn't

149
00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,720
Speaker 1: sure who it was. But from context clues I could

150
00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,240
Speaker 1: ascertain it was a musician. And they were, you know,

151
00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,840
Speaker 1: silently scrolling their phones and sad, and one of my

152
00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:57,439
Speaker 1: friends like shouted out, don't bring ari on a Grande

153
00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:02,840
Speaker 1: and it is, yes, And I didn't. I didn't know

154
00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,360
Speaker 1: they were dating. Um, which is really funny because my

155
00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,319
Speaker 1: phone thinks I'm obsessed with ari Ariana Grande. It gives

156
00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,040
Speaker 1: me updates about her and Pete Davidson all the time.

157
00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:15,839
Speaker 1: I don't know why. Um. Yes, they were very angry

158
00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:20,960
Speaker 1: at how how quickly this turned into a blame game

159
00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:27,280
Speaker 1: with Ariana Grande. Absolutely. I sort of couldn't imagine anything worse.

160
00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:31,760
Speaker 1: Ariana Grande, she went through it, She survived the terror

161
00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:36,920
Speaker 1: attack in the UK. Um she pretty recently, she's gone

162
00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,520
Speaker 1: through kind of a lot. Seeing how eager people were

163
00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:44,520
Speaker 1: to bring up her name in his death, was really surprised.

164
00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:46,720
Speaker 1: Per guess I shouldn't be surprised. It was. It was disappointing,

165
00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,240
Speaker 1: I'll put it that way. And you know, their relationship

166
00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:53,599
Speaker 1: seemed to be rocky. You know, when you're in a

167
00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:55,880
Speaker 1: relationship with someone that has these kinds of issues, of

168
00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,560
Speaker 1: course it's going to be, you know, rocky. But Mac

169
00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,480
Speaker 1: Miller's friends his end. Shane Powers praised Ariana Grande's role

170
00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,839
Speaker 1: in aiding his struggle with addiction on an episode of

171
00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:08,520
Speaker 1: the podcast The Shane Show. He said, there was no

172
00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:10,120
Speaker 1: one more ready to go to the wall with for

173
00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,240
Speaker 1: him when it came to being sober, and she was

174
00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,600
Speaker 1: an unbelievably stabilizing force in his life. She was deeply

175
00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:17,840
Speaker 1: helpful and effective in keeping Max sober and helping him

176
00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,000
Speaker 1: get sober. And she was all about him being healthy

177
00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,240
Speaker 1: period in this area of his life. And he went

178
00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,440
Speaker 1: on to say that she, you know, even after the

179
00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,000
Speaker 1: fact of them breaking up, was always checking in on

180
00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,800
Speaker 1: him and making sure that he was okay. And I

181
00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,719
Speaker 1: guess that's what I'm saying, is that him being sober,

182
00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:36,880
Speaker 1: she was a big part of him getting sober. But

183
00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,600
Speaker 1: you wouldn't have known Matt from the headlines, like the

184
00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,000
Speaker 1: headlines that I saw after his death. Basically blamed her

185
00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:47,360
Speaker 1: breaking up with him for him his spiral into addiction issues.

186
00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,280
Speaker 1: And after they broke up, Mac Miller, you know, he

187
00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:52,480
Speaker 1: was arrested for a d u y, he had a

188
00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,360
Speaker 1: hit and run, who trashed his car while drunk. He

189
00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,240
Speaker 1: clearly seemed to be going through some kind of issue.

190
00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:00,840
Speaker 1: But that is not Ariana g and Day's fault. Like

191
00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:06,240
Speaker 1: how eager people at major publications were to link his

192
00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,640
Speaker 1: behavior to her, like, oh, she shouldn't have broke up

193
00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:10,439
Speaker 1: with him then, like see what happens when you britten

194
00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,480
Speaker 1: up girl breaks up with you? You know, if only

195
00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:14,360
Speaker 1: she had stayed with them. I found that to be

196
00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,840
Speaker 1: not only just just just unhelpful and hurtful, but also

197
00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:22,280
Speaker 1: it completely is not how addiction works. Someone else cannot

198
00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:24,320
Speaker 1: make someone who is an addict to get sober. I've

199
00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:26,600
Speaker 1: learned that the hard way. If someone is struggling with addiction,

200
00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:31,760
Speaker 1: they only they can make themselves get better. Yeah, you,

201
00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:37,840
Speaker 1: it's just it's it's sad and it's difficult. And just

202
00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:44,920
Speaker 1: seeing how how people blamed her breaking up with them

203
00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:50,520
Speaker 1: for his death is that's really disheartening. Yeah, and again

204
00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,120
Speaker 1: we forget that Ariana Grande as a person, she's she's

205
00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,200
Speaker 1: not just a celebrity. And I think I think this

206
00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,400
Speaker 1: really does reveal um part of the toxicity sort of

207
00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:02,640
Speaker 1: We talked about it a lot on the show, part

208
00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:05,840
Speaker 1: of the toxicity that can stem from fan culture where

209
00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,640
Speaker 1: you feel so like mac Miller's fans probably felt so

210
00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,839
Speaker 1: into him that when he died, she you know, and

211
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,200
Speaker 1: they had to be like, oh, you know, it's her fault.

212
00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,080
Speaker 1: After they broke up, she got into a relationship where

213
00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,360
Speaker 1: she became engaged to SNL's Pete Davidson and they had

214
00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:24,160
Speaker 1: They went on to have a very kind of publicly

215
00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:28,320
Speaker 1: cute see lovey dovey relationship. But again, that doesn't have

216
00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:31,800
Speaker 1: anything to do with with what happened with mac Miller.

217
00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,600
Speaker 1: On Twitter, after mac Miller crashed his car, one Twitter

218
00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:39,000
Speaker 1: user wrote, mac Miller totaling his g wagon and getting

219
00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,160
Speaker 1: a d u I after Ariana Grande dumped him for

220
00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,880
Speaker 1: another dude after he poured his heart out on a

221
00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,480
Speaker 1: ten song album to her called The Divine Feminine is

222
00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,040
Speaker 1: just the most heartbreaking thing that has ever happened in Hollywood.

223
00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:53,280
Speaker 1: Arianta Grande was not here for that, she replied. You know,

224
00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:55,120
Speaker 1: she took to the She took to the notes app.

225
00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,280
Speaker 1: Which is when you know like a celebrity is really

226
00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,280
Speaker 1: not having it is when they reply on the notes app.

227
00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,720
Speaker 1: He writes, how absurd that you minimize female self respect

228
00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:05,920
Speaker 1: and self worth by saying someone should stay in a

229
00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,920
Speaker 1: toxic relationship because he wrote an album about them, which,

230
00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,680
Speaker 1: by the way, isn't even the case. Justinderella is about me.

231
00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,120
Speaker 1: I am not a babysitter or a mother, and no

232
00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,400
Speaker 1: woman should feel they need to be. I have cared

233
00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,880
Speaker 1: for him and tried to support his sobriety and prayed

234
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,440
Speaker 1: for his balance for years and always will, of course,

235
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,439
Speaker 1: but shaming blaming women for a man's inability to keep

236
00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,959
Speaker 1: together is a very major problem. Let's please stop doing that.

237
00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,360
Speaker 1: Of course, I didn't share about how scary or our

238
00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:32,480
Speaker 1: heart it was when it was happening, but it was.

239
00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:34,760
Speaker 1: I will continue to pray from the bottom of my

240
00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,000
Speaker 1: heart that he figures it all out, and that any

241
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:41,920
Speaker 1: other woman in this position does as well. And she's exactly, exactly,

242
00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:46,040
Speaker 1: exactly right. I applaud her for standing up and saying

243
00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,839
Speaker 1: this because she clearly loves mac Miller. It's clearly hard

244
00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:51,800
Speaker 1: for her to watch him go through this, but it

245
00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:55,280
Speaker 1: is not her responsibility to stay manicold to him for

246
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,839
Speaker 1: the rest of her life, to keep him sober. This

247
00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:59,840
Speaker 1: is not her job. She's not she's not a so

248
00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,440
Speaker 1: we're living coach, he thought his mother, and to put

249
00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:03,840
Speaker 1: this on her to say, oh, well, he made an

250
00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,360
Speaker 1: album about you. That kind of thinking just really minimizes

251
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,240
Speaker 1: a woman's agency. So because because a man writes an

252
00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:14,640
Speaker 1: album about you, you're obligated to stay with him forever. Yeah,

253
00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,720
Speaker 1: it's just another example of kind of like a bigger

254
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,480
Speaker 1: example of um, well I bought you dinner, so you

255
00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,280
Speaker 1: owe me sex. It's like the same thing that it's

256
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,480
Speaker 1: it's entitlement saying well, I I did this incredibly kind

257
00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:32,440
Speaker 1: thing for you, so you owe me this. And she doesn't.

258
00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,280
Speaker 1: She doesn't. You know. Robin Thick tried that same thing

259
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,480
Speaker 1: with Paul Patton after they got divorced. He made a

260
00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,360
Speaker 1: whole album that was basically paula, come back to me,

261
00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,600
Speaker 1: and you know what, she didn't go back to him,

262
00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,680
Speaker 1: and she went on with her life as she should. Yes,

263
00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,480
Speaker 1: absolutely absolutely, So let's talk more about the situation after

264
00:14:50,480 --> 00:15:03,840
Speaker 1: a quick break and we're back. As we said earlier

265
00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,640
Speaker 1: in the episode, several news outlets kind of could not

266
00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:10,280
Speaker 1: wait to bring up Ariana Grande when discussing what happened

267
00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,080
Speaker 1: with mac Miller. I saw articles that were like Ariana

268
00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:17,560
Speaker 1: Grande x Comma rapper mac Miller Comma dead from apparent

269
00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,640
Speaker 1: drug overdose. And you know when when he died, her

270
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:25,040
Speaker 1: name immediately almost almost at the same time, started trending

271
00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,360
Speaker 1: on Twitter. And so it just goes to show how

272
00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:32,760
Speaker 1: quick people are too attach. I'm not even dating anymore,

273
00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,800
Speaker 1: but to attach a woman to a man's behavior when

274
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,120
Speaker 1: something like this happens. It's like I was listening to

275
00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:41,560
Speaker 1: the podcast to Keep It, which if you don't listen

276
00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:43,360
Speaker 1: to Keep It, it's really good you should. But they

277
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,200
Speaker 1: were saying, you know, it's a woman's responsibility to have

278
00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:49,400
Speaker 1: a conscious for men, because if women don't have conscious

279
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,600
Speaker 1: is no one will have a conscience. It's like it's

280
00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,880
Speaker 1: like just assumed that, oh, if something happens with a man,

281
00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,040
Speaker 1: it's going to be a woman who you know, who

282
00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:02,000
Speaker 1: is at fault or to blame in some capacity. Yeah,

283
00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:07,520
Speaker 1: and that kind of reminds me of like if successes

284
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:14,040
Speaker 1: and then men can take take responsibility for that, but failures, um,

285
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,000
Speaker 1: then it's the woman. Well, the woman that should have

286
00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:22,880
Speaker 1: been behind like supporting. And it reminds me of our

287
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:27,720
Speaker 1: poor performing males video game. Yeah, hashtag pre performing males.

288
00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,680
Speaker 1: It's true. And again, part of it, I think is

289
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,200
Speaker 1: is a I can sort of forgive a nineteen year

290
00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,080
Speaker 1: old Mac Miller fan for this because you're young, and

291
00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,720
Speaker 1: Lord knows, I had, you know, dumb misconceptions when I

292
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,960
Speaker 1: was young. But I really, when I look at media,

293
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,200
Speaker 1: I want to say, what are you doing? Adults who

294
00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,080
Speaker 1: work at media companies should know better. The TMZ article

295
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,520
Speaker 1: following his death basically blamed their breakup for his spiral

296
00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,480
Speaker 1: into addiction. They even included a line that they edited

297
00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:57,320
Speaker 1: He quote had trouble recently with substance abuse in the

298
00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,040
Speaker 1: wake of his breakup with Ariana Grande And that's so

299
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,200
Speaker 1: gross and I would expect adults who run media companies

300
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,760
Speaker 1: to know better. After his death, Arianna actually had to

301
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,240
Speaker 1: disable the comments on her Instagram because her Instagram and

302
00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:16,320
Speaker 1: Twitter were flooded with gross sexist comments like this is

303
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,360
Speaker 1: your fault, you flag you cheated on him with Pete Davidson.

304
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,600
Speaker 1: You know, I hope you're happy. And the saddest thing

305
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,240
Speaker 1: like she posted this really really sad Instagram picture of

306
00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,399
Speaker 1: him where she had to have the comments disabled, and

307
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:31,919
Speaker 1: it just made me so sad. You know, this is

308
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,600
Speaker 1: someone that she clearly loved. When they split, they had

309
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,000
Speaker 1: a very amicable split where and she kept saying, this

310
00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:38,640
Speaker 1: is my best friend. I love him, I love him,

311
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:40,040
Speaker 1: you know, I hope he gets better. I wanted to

312
00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,080
Speaker 1: get better, and praying him to get better, and not

313
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,560
Speaker 1: even being able to grieve in peace because people are

314
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:50,160
Speaker 1: too busy blooding her social media with really disgusting comments

315
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,320
Speaker 1: about how she's a whore who cheated on him. Yeah,

316
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:56,760
Speaker 1: that's awful. That's to deal with that on top of

317
00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,879
Speaker 1: on top of your grief, I can't imagine. And to

318
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,679
Speaker 1: have people I've always found people are kind of judgmental

319
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:09,159
Speaker 1: about how you grieve and like how you perform grief.

320
00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:15,560
Speaker 1: And to have so many people on that largest scale

321
00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,359
Speaker 1: judging you for what you're doing or not doing, or

322
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:23,040
Speaker 1: what is your fault what's not your fault is that's awful.

323
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:27,440
Speaker 1: It is awful. And again, this is someone who is young.

324
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:29,920
Speaker 1: This is someone who would survive. I keep keep going

325
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,600
Speaker 1: back to this, but who survived a very traumatic event

326
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,320
Speaker 1: not that long ago, you know, a mass shooting at

327
00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,159
Speaker 1: one of her concerts while she was on stage like,

328
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just I feel like we expect

329
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,879
Speaker 1: celebrities to be these larger than life figures and we

330
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,320
Speaker 1: forget that they're human, And nothing would have illustrates that

331
00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,520
Speaker 1: more than when they're grieving. I think that you're exactly right,

332
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,320
Speaker 1: and Ariana Grande is not the first celebrity to be

333
00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,200
Speaker 1: treated this way at all. Rolling Stone calls it the

334
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:03,119
Speaker 1: Yoko effect. Quote. Fan claims such as the stem from

335
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,000
Speaker 1: the most dangerous branch of pop cultures, continuous fascination with

336
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:09,600
Speaker 1: the so called Yoko effect, and it's desire to connect

337
00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,800
Speaker 1: female partners to actions they may not comprehend. These claims

338
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:18,520
Speaker 1: and conspiracies, often solely perpetrated by the most toxically masculine

339
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:23,240
Speaker 1: factions of fandoms, sometimes never disappear. Even Courtney Love is

340
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:27,159
Speaker 1: still fielding social media comments and blog conspiracy theories that

341
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,400
Speaker 1: she not only was the reason Kurt Cobain became addicted

342
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,280
Speaker 1: to heroine she was not, but also that she had

343
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:37,359
Speaker 1: actually murdered him and faked his suicide also one true.

344
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 1: Cobain died two decades before these social media platforms even existed.

345
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,720
Speaker 1: Yet the fact that Love's comments can still attract a

346
00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,960
Speaker 1: rogue claim like this speaks volumes to the way society

347
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,920
Speaker 1: continues to expect women to be caretakers for the men

348
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,080
Speaker 1: in their lives and reacts with fury when they apparently

349
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:59,120
Speaker 1: cannot absorb their partner's pain. It's so upsetting. The Courtney

350
00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:02,919
Speaker 1: Love thing, I think an especially upsetting thing, and when

351
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,040
Speaker 1: I have a lot of personal connection to is someone

352
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,680
Speaker 1: who is a big fan of them. Both Courtney Love

353
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,800
Speaker 1: and Francis Bean Cobain actually had to go to court

354
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,840
Speaker 1: with one of these conspiracy theorists. In a Seattle court

355
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,200
Speaker 1: ruled that pictures from the scene of Kurt Cobain's death

356
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:21,520
Speaker 1: would remain sealed from the public. Conspiracy theorist Richard Lee

357
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,960
Speaker 1: sued the city over the release of the images. Court

358
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,040
Speaker 1: documents states that the images depict quote Kurt's body as

359
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,000
Speaker 1: it lay in the family residents after he was shot

360
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,000
Speaker 1: in the head. Cobain's next of kid had previously testified

361
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,080
Speaker 1: in the case. In April sixteen, Love gave a statement

362
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,000
Speaker 1: accusingly of trying to exploit Cobain's death, which he claims

363
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,320
Speaker 1: to have been investigating for more than twenty three years.

364
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,320
Speaker 1: Love said that he stopped and harassed her, her family,

365
00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:46,840
Speaker 1: and her friends for many, many many years. On more

366
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,520
Speaker 1: than one particular occasion, Mr Lee even filmed himself chasing

367
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:52,480
Speaker 1: a limo for several miles that he thought she was

368
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,679
Speaker 1: a passenger. In. Mr Lee's actions make me fear for

369
00:20:55,680 --> 00:21:00,520
Speaker 1: my safety, she said. Um, yes, Courtney Love was probably

370
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:04,119
Speaker 1: one of my biggest problematic faiths. Um, I'm a pretty

371
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,880
Speaker 1: big fan. I was also a big fan of Nirvana,

372
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 1: and I remember I think I was in sixth grade

373
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:14,080
Speaker 1: when Kurt Cobain died, and I definitely mean I was

374
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,639
Speaker 1: eleven or twelve, so I was very young. But I

375
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:21,080
Speaker 1: definitely did blame her for his death, Like I was

376
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 1: that person who was like, oh, Kurt, Courtney killed Kurt,

377
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,440
Speaker 1: and Kurt would still be alive if Courtney, if Courtney

378
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 1: hadn't gotten involved with him. And this was because I

379
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 1: was young, you know, I didn't I didn't have any understanding.

380
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 1: What was going on. The narrative at the time with

381
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 1: with super fans of Nirvana and Kurt Cobain was that

382
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:43,639
Speaker 1: Kurt Cobain was this sort of delicate genius who was

383
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 1: sort of too pure for this world and Courtney was

384
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,280
Speaker 1: this awful person who was really troubled and sort of

385
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 1: got him into all this, all these bad situations, and

386
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 1: that I think that myth persists today and it's very gendered.

387
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 1: Never mind the fact that both Kurt and Courtney were

388
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 1: you know, had issues with addiction. They're both were living

389
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 1: very similar lifestyles, and so it's interesting that one of

390
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:12,160
Speaker 1: them gets to be this you know, fallen angel even

391
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 1: in death, and the other is just sort of stuck

392
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:16,639
Speaker 1: to pick up the pieces. And when I got it

393
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,919
Speaker 1: wasn't until I got older than I realized. Wait a minute,

394
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 1: Kurt Cobain after his suicide, his wife, now a widow,

395
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 1: had to raise their kid alone and had to do

396
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,400
Speaker 1: it while a lot of people were publicly and loudly

397
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 1: speculating that she murdered him. And that's really horrible, and

398
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 1: you know, we like it was one of those is

399
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 1: one of those things that I really it kind of

400
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 1: forced me to grow up because it's a very immature attitude.

401
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 1: That's like, oh, Courtney is so awful and even though

402
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,199
Speaker 1: she was doing the same things as Kurt, she's terrible

403
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 1: and he's awesome, And you know, that's such an immature attitude.

404
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: It wasn't until I got older than I saw actually

405
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 1: she is a grieving widow who now has to raise

406
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 1: a child alone, and it's a bad situation. And people

407
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,679
Speaker 1: who discount that are like living in a fantasy world.

408
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,199
Speaker 1: They're not living in reality. It goes back to seeing

409
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 1: celebrities as people, as something more than this one dimensional thing.

410
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 1: Really this image that you you consume and then you

411
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,919
Speaker 1: put all of your own stuff onto. I was. I

412
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:28,160
Speaker 1: liked Nirvana when I was younger, Um a lot too,

413
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 1: but I didn't know much about their personal lives because

414
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 1: I didn't have like TV that the first time I

415
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 1: heard of Courtney Love, it was with the implication that

416
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: she had killed him. That was like my first exposure

417
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 1: to her. There's an entire documentary about that. The premises

418
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 1: is that he that she had him murdered for money,

419
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: you know, like like it's such a common thing. I

420
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 1: have to tell a quick story. I have a lot

421
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 1: of Courtney Love personal anecdotes. I will try to pare

422
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: it down because feel a long podcast. But the one

423
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 1: that is most relevant is that I was once at

424
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: a bar and basically were like play cole and the

425
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: bar tender was like no Courtney Love killed Kurt Cobain.

426
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: So my friends have a drink in his space. Good

427
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,120
Speaker 1: for your friends. Yeah, shout out to Anne and wasn't

428
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 1: having it. Um No, But I think you're right. I

429
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 1: think it's about an inability to see celebrities as real

430
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,639
Speaker 1: people and they're just this thing that we consume and

431
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 1: we don't see their pain, we don't see their trauma,

432
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 1: we don't see their you know. And also, I think

433
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 1: it's about addiction. It doesn't surprise me that all the

434
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 1: people that we're talking about today dealt with things like

435
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 1: addiction and depression. You know, we don't live in a

436
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: country where we're having thoughtful conversations about addiction, and it

437
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: is a problem. And I think that because of that,

438
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 1: we're gonna get we're getting nowhere on the issue. You know.

439
00:24:57,840 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 1: I think I'm happy to see that we're having a

440
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 1: more nuanced conversation about the opioid crisis. But frankly, the

441
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 1: only reason that we're doing that is because it's now

442
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: impacting White America, and that I think that's the only

443
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 1: reason why we're finally saying, hey, this is a problem.

444
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:13,640
Speaker 1: We need to figure out how we're going to deal

445
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 1: with this. Because it's becoming a big issue. I'm happy

446
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: that we've that we've gotten there, but I have to

447
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 1: be clear on why I think it is. I think

448
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: that when opioids were impacting communities of color for so long,

449
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 1: we just did nothing and it was just you know,

450
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: we were writing off entire generations of black and brown

451
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 1: folks and thinking nothing of it. And even with that

452
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: being the case, I'm still so happy that we're getting

453
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 1: to a point where we're saying, hey, we need a

454
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: more compassionate solution other than just lacking people up and

455
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 1: letting them die. You know. Yes, Um, I think we've

456
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 1: fundamentally misunderstood addiction probably, I mean still do, but for

457
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 1: a long time. UM, And I'm hoping that we're moving

458
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 1: away from that and that we can start to change

459
00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: people's perceptions around it, because I just think they're there's

460
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 1: so much that we get wrong about addiction, and um,

461
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 1: of course, unfortunately, of course, there we have another example

462
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: of Elliott Smith where it's similar. UM. Fans or people

463
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: believe that his suicide was not actually a suicide, but

464
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 1: that he was murdered by his girlfriend, Jennifer Chiba following

465
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: an argument. In a statement, she gave to MTV. She said,

466
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 1: although she hasn't been charged with a crime or questioned

467
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: recently by police, she feels like a suspect in the

468
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: court of public opinion. Quote. Up until now, I've chosen

469
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 1: to remain silent because I want to maintain some sense

470
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: of privacy for Elliott and his family and myself and

471
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 1: this really difficult time, and I want people to know

472
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 1: that I'm not keeping quiet because I have anything to hide.

473
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 1: If I was a suspect, I would have heard from

474
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 1: the investigators for one thing. Another is that his sister

475
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 1: and his parents and everyone close to him knows the truth,

476
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: So I'm not worried about it. Yeah, I loved Eliot

477
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: Smith and still you um that one was interesting to

478
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 1: me because Elliott Smith's entire uvra is about struggling with depression.

479
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: So this idea, you know, people conspiracy theorists are like, oh,

480
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: he spells his name wrong in the suicide letter, and

481
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: they have all of these reasons why they believe he

482
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: couldn't have done it. And I also think that that

483
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 1: plays into this idea that we have around people who

484
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 1: are struggling, is that like he couldn't have done it.

485
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 1: He wouldn't have done this. There has to be some

486
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: other reason. It has to be that he was murdered,

487
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: or it was the government or this or that. And

488
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,640
Speaker 1: I think sometimes we just don't want to accept that

489
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: someone could do this because it's so upsetting. But you know,

490
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: people do, people do. And I think that we I

491
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: understand the rush to say so and so would never

492
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: take the throw in life. They couldn't have done it again.

493
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,199
Speaker 1: It just it just highlights to me that we're not

494
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 1: having the right conversation when it comes to addiction and

495
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: substance abuse and mental health because you don't know what

496
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 1: people are dealing with. And I think that Eliot Smiths

497
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 1: situation really highlighted people's willingness to not confront that someone

498
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 1: is struggling, Like his entire musical career is basically about

499
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 1: his struggles. I was introduced to Elliott Smith via The

500
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,719
Speaker 1: Royal Tin and Bombs when a song of his is

501
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: used when one of the characters is trying to kill himself. Yeah,

502
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: needle in the hay. I mean he wasn't. I don't

503
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 1: think it should come as a massive surprise that he

504
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: would make that choice, as horrible as it is, you know,

505
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: I think that people are willing to confront that, and

506
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: who are you know, say that there must be some

507
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: other explanation. Are sort of again not understanding that this

508
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,959
Speaker 1: person that you in, whose music you enjoyed, is a

509
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: flawed human being. And that's okay. Yeah, um, we we

510
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: have a little bit more for you, but we're going

511
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: to pause for one more quick break for word from

512
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: our sponsor, and we're back, Thank you, sponsor. So this

513
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: is an issue that's that's personal for me. I have

514
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: been in relationships with people who are struggling with both

515
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: addiction issues, substance abuse issues, and kind of overall mental

516
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: health issues. And in the conversations that people were having

517
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: around Ariana Grande, I just really really identified with what

518
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: they said about her and how she probably felt. I

519
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: think it happens for people of all genders, right. I

520
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 1: think that when you are in a relationship or a

521
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: friendship or a family relationship with someone who was struggling,

522
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: there is it can be any gender who was sort

523
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: of unfairly given this burden of carrying the weight of

524
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: that person's recovery, and that's not fair. So I don't

525
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: I don't think it's necessarily a gender issue. But I

526
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: do think that as women, we are more likely to

527
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: be unfairly saddled with, you know, someone else's overall well being.

528
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: And I felt that very acutely in these relationships. You know,

529
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: I would have friends that would say things like, oh, well,

530
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: you know, aren't you afraid if you leave them that

531
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: they'll that they'll spiral out of control? Or it's so

532
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: it's so lucky they have you to keep them on track.

533
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 1: I mean, it really made me feel like my entire

534
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: role in our relationship was to help them get sober

535
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: or help them get better. That I was only in

536
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: this relationship to be, you know, a cheerleader for that

537
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: person's recovery. And of course, when you're with someone who

538
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: has who has issues, you want them to get better.

539
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: But unless you've been in a situation, it's very hard

540
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: to describe. You basically kind of lose part of your

541
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: identity after a while, or at least I did, where

542
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: my our entire relationship functioned as a structure to help

543
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: the other person get better, and that like the only

544
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: conversations that we had were about them getting better and recovery,

545
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: and that like we weren't the kind of things that

546
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: kind of reasons that you get into a romantic relationship

547
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: for you know, feeling comfort and feeling happy, and feeling

548
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: stable and feeling loved and feeling you know safe, all

549
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: of that, all of that was gone. The only thing

550
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: that the only reason that our relationship function was to

551
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: help them get better, and any other thing that you

552
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: might have wanted was completely secondary to that first thing.

553
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: And I think that's really admirable when someone supports their

554
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: partner through something tough. But if if that is, you know,

555
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: not something that you can do, and if you are

556
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: losing yourself of the process, and if you are not happy,

557
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: and if you are being unfairly burdened, and if you're

558
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: like just if it's if it's just not something you

559
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: can do with at a certain point you're like, listen,

560
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 1: I'm not a professional. I can do I can only

561
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: do so much as your partner. It's okay to say

562
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: I love you, but this is my boundary. And I

563
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: want to see you get better, and I hope that

564
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: you get better, and I'm praying for you. But I

565
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: can't go on like this, like I can't manacle myself

566
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: to your struggles anymore. Yeah, it's a lot of work

567
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: and it sucks because you do feel at least when

568
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,719
Speaker 1: I've been in these situations, I felt um a pressure

569
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: to stay and almost like I was failing or I

570
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: wasn't doing enough. Um. But yeah, you're not a professional,

571
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: and relationships shouldn't be one, at least in my opinion,

572
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 1: it shouldn't be one of permanently caretaking. Like if that's

573
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: what the relationship is, if that's what it becomes, then

574
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: that is a lot to ask of one person, and

575
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: it is for your own health. It is pretty essential

576
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: that you draw that boundary and that you are able

577
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 1: to say I can't be this for you, like we

578
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: have to find another solution or this isn't gonna work exactly.

579
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 1: And I think that is what this situation and shows

580
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: us is that you know, Ariana Grande is not a

581
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: mental health professional. She's got a drug counselor she could

582
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: nothing that she could do was going to help mac

583
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: Miller get better. You know, addiction is an illness, Like

584
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: you can't get someone sober for them, they have to

585
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: get themselves over. You can support them, you can do

586
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: an intervention, you can do all of these things that

587
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: might help, but at the end of the day, they

588
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: have to get somewhere for them. They can't get clean

589
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: for you. Yeah, we need to shift the conversation so

590
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: that we're talking about addiction and um no one is

591
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: responsible for the behavior of someone else, and it isn't

592
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: anyone's job to fix anyone else's problems. So we need

593
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: to we need to have a paradigm shift around this

594
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: whole thing exactly. UM Promises Treatment Center had this page

595
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: on their website called three things you can and can't

596
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: do to help an addicted loved one. They make it

597
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,239
Speaker 1: very clear if your loved one has an addiction, you

598
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: can't make them get better. You can stage their invention

599
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: and you may be successful, but you cannot force someone

600
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 1: with a substance of these problem to quit. Even in

601
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: states that allowed in voluntary treatment, you can't make someone

602
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: gets sober. You also can't do the work of recovery

603
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: for them. Even if a loved one goes to drug rehab,

604
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: you can't do the work of recovery for them. And

605
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: you can't prevent our relapse. And lastly, you can't accept

606
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 1: behavior that violates your boundaries. To avoid enabling loved ones,

607
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: you have to set boundaries, and once you've laid out

608
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: your boundaries. Allowing them to be violated destroys your credibility

609
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,879
Speaker 1: and perpetuates your loved ones addiction. And that's really what

610
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:36,839
Speaker 1: I have found. I had to learn it the hard way,

611
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: where when you know someone I was close to continue

612
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 1: to relapse, I would I would feel like, oh God,

613
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 1: I have messed up, like I let them down to

614
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 1: the point where we were no longer assigning agency to

615
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 1: the person. It was. It was just me and you know,

616
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: friends and family, but we all were doing this dance

617
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: where that person was absolved of all of their actions,

618
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 1: and it just fell on all of us when they

619
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,240
Speaker 1: slipped up. And of course, if you are struggling with addiction,

620
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 1: you might slip up, even if even after you get sober. Um,

621
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 1: it just wasn't a healthy situation. And understanding that boundary

622
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 1: it was really important. And I'm glad that Ariana Grande,

623
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,359
Speaker 1: even at such a young age, established that boundary because

624
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: she deserves to be happy. You know, you don't deserve

625
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 1: to have your entire life become about taking care of

626
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 1: somebody else that's not yourself. Yeah, um, I feel like

627
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: Ariana Grande, keep on keep on rocking. If you ever

628
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: want to be on the show. You know you know

629
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,919
Speaker 1: where to find is if this is something that you're

630
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 1: dealing with listeners, Um, we do have a number that

631
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 1: you can call. It's s A M H s a

632
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:53,399
Speaker 1: S National Helpline and the number is one eight hundred

633
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: six six to help, and help is four three five seven.

634
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,800
Speaker 1: So that's one eight hundred six six to four three seven. Yeah.

635
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: So please if you're if this sounds like you, if

636
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,280
Speaker 1: you're struggling and you're trying to support somebody who needs

637
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 1: serious help, kudos. Remember that you're doing something admirable, but

638
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 1: there is only so much you can do and be

639
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 1: gentle with yourself. And that was something else that I

640
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 1: found is that when someone when I was with someone

641
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: who was struggling, a lot of people were very quick

642
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 1: to be like, oh, how how are you? How is he?

643
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: How is he? And I don't I don't think I

644
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 1: got that. I don't think anyone ever talked to me

645
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,240
Speaker 1: and said you're doing good, like how are you doing?

646
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: It was always how are they doing? Like it was

647
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 1: always just so focused on the other person, and to

648
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: the point where I felt like my needs were just

649
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,359
Speaker 1: like nothing. And so I'm here to tell you if

650
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 1: you are in a position where you are providing this

651
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 1: kind of support for somebody. Your needs are important. Don't

652
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 1: ignore them. Bridgets pretty wise listeners. I would heed her words. Okay,

653
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: so this is the end of this this episode, but

654
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 1: we still have of listener. Maile Kaylor wrote, I've thought

655
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: about writing in after several semi recent episodes, but the

656
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: episode on women's pleasure pushed me over the edge because

657
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,879
Speaker 1: I wrote an essay on that topic for reproductive health

658
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: class I took last fall. Sexual health and pleasure are

659
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: probably the feminist issues that I am most passionate about.

660
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 1: I do sexual health research, and I am starting a

661
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: PhD program this year so I can keep doing sexual

662
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 1: health research forever. It's unfair that society at large only

663
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: discusses the negatives of sexual activity. For young females, st

664
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: I is pregnancy, that your first time is supposed to hurt,

665
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: that if you have sex too soon, too much, you're

666
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: a slat, on and on and on and on. But

667
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 1: for young males it's the complete opposite. You need to

668
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: have sex and a lot of it to be masculine.

669
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: Having sex is fun, Your pleasure matters. Masturbation is normal

670
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: and okay, on and on, and on and on. This

671
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 1: just leads to pretty much everyone having unrealistic and unhealthy

672
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: ideas about sex, and lots of women having unfun, unhealthy,

673
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 1: and unsafe sexual experiences. Even further, these unhealthy ideas are

674
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,359
Speaker 1: forced fed to us for so long that they become

675
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 1: this insidious thing lurking in our subconscious so that even

676
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: if we get woke about the gender pleasure disparity, they

677
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: can still negatively impact our sexual experiences. Multiple times I've

678
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: hooked up with a new guy, I found myself settling

679
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 1: for a fun but unsatisfying experience because I'm uncomfortable asking

680
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: for what I want and or telling the guy that

681
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 1: I didn't orgasm. And in response to something that, if

682
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 1: I remember correctly, bridgets in the episode, I totally agree

683
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: that mutual orgasm shouldn't be the singular ultimate goal of

684
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 1: having sex. As long as it's between consenting adults, sex

685
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 1: can be whatever people wanted to be. Unfortunately, there's a

686
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 1: lot more women out there than men wanting an orgasm

687
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 1: and not getting one, which really sucks. I guess I'll

688
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: end my rent there and try to coherently sum up

689
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: my thoughts into something resembling a thesis there's a long

690
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: way to go before we'll reach true gender parity, but

691
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 1: I firmly believe that once women everywhere can appreciate and

692
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: take charge of their own sexuality and pleasure, we will

693
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: be one huge step closer. Agreed Kayla, and um she

694
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: attached her essay and it was great and I loved it.

695
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: I love that you're devoting like your PhD to this

696
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 1: is so fantastic. Yeah, kudos, thank you for writing in.

697
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 1: Julie writes, I have been going through the archive, and

698
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 1: about a year ago I listened to the episode Surfer Girls.

699
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: I was inspired by this episode to use surfing as

700
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: another way to dismantle the patriarchy by entering into another

701
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 1: arena where it often feels like a boys club. I

702
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: did not really know how to swim, but this spring

703
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: I signed up for an all women's surfing camp, and

704
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 1: I spent two months learning how to swim and becoming

705
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,359
Speaker 1: proficient at it. I am happy to report that I've

706
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,760
Speaker 1: spent the last two months surfing in Portugal and Hawaii,

707
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 1: feeling somewhat comfortable in the water and in the lineup.

708
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: When asked at surf camp why I came, I explained

709
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 1: that I listened to a podcast about how surfing was

710
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 1: originally a supportive equality and I am trying to contribute

711
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: to the movement to bring it back to that place.

712
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,720
Speaker 1: Every time a freezing wave Portugal is not that warm,

713
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: but hit me in the thing ace and pushed me

714
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: back to the shore, I would shout you patriarchy and

715
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 1: dive back in, Julie, this makes me so happy. This

716
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: is speaking to my soul. Um. I also did a

717
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 1: surf camp. It was amazing. I wasn't the best at it,

718
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: and I'm I like to swim, but I'm not the

719
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: strongest swimmer, and it does I mean learning about the

720
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,800
Speaker 1: history of surfing. It was a sport of equality and

721
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,320
Speaker 1: if you are all interested in sort of thing, you

722
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,720
Speaker 1: should do it. I will say it is a frustrating sport.

723
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: And then at least for me, I spent hours and

724
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: hours and hours surfing to have five glorious minutes standing

725
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 1: up on the board, and when I finally did it,

726
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 1: it was beautiful and wonderful. But it is so fun

727
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 1: and it's very freeing. And I'm so glad, Julie that

728
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 1: you wrote in I hope I see you out on

729
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 1: the beach sometime and I hope that we can the

730
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 1: patriarchy via surfing together. I love it. I love it.

731
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: Thanks to both of them for writing in. If you'd

732
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: like to write to as you can. Our email is

733
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: mom Stuff at Housta works dot com, and you can

734
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:00,720
Speaker 1: find us on the social media is. We're on Instagram

735
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 1: stuff mon Never Told You and on Twitter at mom

736
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,760
Speaker 1: Stuff Podcast. And thanks as always for our producer Andrew

737
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 1: Howard h