Speaker 1: This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,
Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast. You can't
Speaker 1: predict anything. The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you
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Speaker 1: or scouting for el First Light has performance apparel to
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Speaker 1: first light dot com. F I R S T L
Speaker 1: I T E dot com. There's the machine on film. Okay,
Speaker 1: very quick hunting story before we introduced anybody, because I
Speaker 1: was gonna tell it anyway. So I'm sitting there with
Speaker 1: my daughter on we had hunted the youth season. What
Speaker 1: the hell I am gonna introduce Danny Boltons here because
Speaker 1: his daughter was there too. We hunted the two day
Speaker 1: the youth season, and then on the actual opening day
Speaker 1: of general season, we're up up hunting and I get
Speaker 1: to a spot and I'm like approaching where I want
Speaker 1: a glass from hidden dawn off the other side of
Speaker 1: the ridge, and I slip over the ridge and nestle
Speaker 1: into the sage brush, in which I'm expecting my kids
Speaker 1: to do the same. But at the crest of the
Speaker 1: ridge they find a fossilized clam stuck into a rock.
Speaker 1: So I'm glass and glass and glass, and they're like
Speaker 1: back and forth messing with this fossilized clam and they
Speaker 1: get the leather man, they go back, they come back
Speaker 1: to get me, and I am mad and I'm yelling
Speaker 1: at him, whisper yelling at him, like did you notice
Speaker 1: how I slipped over and nestled into the sage brush?
Speaker 1: And you guys are like, actually at prime time in
Speaker 1: the morning, it's eight thirty am, and you're not just
Speaker 1: crossing the ridge, but hanging on the ridge. I will
Speaker 1: mark the clam.
Speaker 2: Did you tell him they were lily dicking around something
Speaker 2: like that? It sounds like so much fun.
Speaker 1: It's Jimmy Dickon. I'm yelling and I'm yelling at the
Speaker 1: both of them over my right shoulder, whisper yelling. I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: come back, do you want to be here? Like I'm
Speaker 1: not up here for me all that dad stuff. And
Speaker 1: also my buddy goes Jesus is a big buck. It's like,
Speaker 1: coming up this draw one hundred yards away, he's kind
Speaker 1: of gotten this look on his face, like the buck's
Speaker 1: got to look at his face, like Dad this ain't good,
Speaker 1: and if I had not been yelling at him, I
Speaker 1: would have probably detected it. Yeah, but it splits and
Speaker 1: takes off running, and my daughter she's not gonna do
Speaker 1: a quick shot, you know. And we see it go
Speaker 1: over hill, and we see it go over another hillway
Speaker 1: off in this area where in you can like see
Speaker 1: the tracks were good. So we go over there. We
Speaker 1: eventually pick up the tracks, so it's pretty exciting, you can.
Speaker 1: And we go of another rise and all sudden missing
Speaker 1: explodes out of me from me to Danny, out of
Speaker 1: the He was like laying under the sagebrush patch and
Speaker 1: my son is quick to shoot in any situation. To
Speaker 1: a fault, I said, get him, Jimmy, meaning like if
Speaker 1: the opportunity were to present itself, do you.
Speaker 2: Know, I mean like whatever you stop in your delivery there.
Speaker 1: I was like, get him, Jimmy. And he started right
Speaker 1: the next so it's like he like, yeah, nice bock
Speaker 1: and dude. My daughter was up set because in her
Speaker 1: mind that was her deal.
Speaker 2: How did you navigate that?
Speaker 1: She still pissed, She's still I'm navigating that by planning more.
Speaker 1: I'm navigating that by playing a more deer hunting.
Speaker 3: How did you initially determine who who's your shoots first?
Speaker 1: Because I was I was toting my daughter's rifle. Okay,
Speaker 1: we had all kinds junk. I'm like carrying the rifle. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she was like, you carry her gun. You never carried
Speaker 1: my gun, you know. And I thought about whether that
Speaker 1: was true or not, and I think he might have
Speaker 1: had a point, but I'm just like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm nicer to my daughter than to my boy.
Speaker 1: I don't know why. That's all. Danny's daughter got her
Speaker 1: first book.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she did great, like never shot anything of the
Speaker 4: rifle before, and had her practicing, and I had a
Speaker 4: little awesome stock on three bucks. And then we end
Speaker 4: up getting too a spot where they dipped into a
Speaker 4: nice little ravine and we couldn't see him anymore. So
Speaker 4: we kind of moved up on him and got to
Speaker 4: one eighty, got her set up on a tripod, which
Speaker 4: is perfect. From where I was standing, I could see him,
Speaker 4: but I realized from where I set the tripod at
Speaker 4: her height, there's still a lot of brush.
Speaker 2: That's a good realization. When you're taking kids out there,
Speaker 2: it's like it's right there. What do you mean, what
Speaker 2: exactly a problem?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So it was good though, because it gave me a time,
Speaker 4: like I could squat down and tell her like, hey, okay,
Speaker 4: the thing's right there standing broadside. I'm gonna move up
Speaker 4: ten feet once I set this triplod down. It's all you,
Speaker 4: you know. And I really stressed with her to squeeze
Speaker 4: the trigger and don't rush it, and uh she we
Speaker 4: moved up and she took her time and took the shot.
Speaker 4: But then she was the thing. She hit it, and
Speaker 4: I didn't see exactly where she hit. I was looking
Speaker 4: through the binos, but it only had like ten feet
Speaker 4: to go for his out of sight and it ran forward,
Speaker 4: and she was really stressed that she made a good
Speaker 4: you know, I don't know if I made a good shot.
Speaker 4: I think I really liked yank the trigger, which I
Speaker 4: don't think she did, but she just like we knew
Speaker 4: that was kind of our opportunity. We had been stalking
Speaker 4: it for like an hour and this thing was about
Speaker 4: to dip out of sight and then it would be
Speaker 4: a big stock to get back on them. So she did, like,
Speaker 4: which is good because you're like, hey, you know, take
Speaker 4: your time, but hurry up.
Speaker 2: But this is the time.
Speaker 4: If this thing moves, you know you're not going to
Speaker 4: get a chance out of it.
Speaker 2: Take your time relative to the amount of time.
Speaker 1: We actually, yeah understand, but not really.
Speaker 2: But she got it.
Speaker 4: She's like, you know, I knew that thing was going
Speaker 4: to move, so I felt like I just had to
Speaker 4: shoot it right there in perfect shot.
Speaker 2: Calibers were running for these daughters. I got a seven
Speaker 2: year old.
Speaker 4: I'm trying to six or five creed.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Can I give you a hot tip please? Okay,
Speaker 1: then I'm to introduce you. If you keep winning these
Speaker 1: golf tournaments and you got the money, I would get
Speaker 1: a six five creed more, get the sig Cross. Okay,
Speaker 1: it's just like a dream for kids. Perfect and get
Speaker 1: a suppressor.
Speaker 2: I got cans. I got the cans. Just my is,
Speaker 2: can you get one perfect built? She's good with, like,
Speaker 2: gotta suppress twenty two shoots it without her? Yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean she's she's great, but she's itty bitty, and so
Speaker 2: I don't want to. I know, when we were coming up,
Speaker 2: it was like, all right, you're big enough. Now here's
Speaker 2: this two seventy that weighs nothing and kicks like a mule,
Speaker 2: and oh yeah, I shaved the trigger down. It's super scary, right,
Speaker 2: but everybody else had to deal with this exactly. Of
Speaker 2: course it did. It's just like this fire baptism, you know,
Speaker 2: like for everybody else. Yeah, i'll give you the pitch
Speaker 2: on it, sig Cross.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's got a collapsible stock. It's got a two
Speaker 1: stage trigger. First off, they're small, you can you can,
Speaker 1: you can. The stock's adjustable very easily. The cheap combs adjustable.
Speaker 1: And it's got a two stage trigger, which just makes
Speaker 1: sense to them. Yep, you're like pull through and it's
Speaker 1: gonna stop. And then when you go a little more,
Speaker 1: and man, they can drive tax perfect. Yeah, they can
Speaker 1: drive tax those things. But with a suppressor. And then
Speaker 1: it's got that arc rail deal on the bombs. You
Speaker 1: can put like a hefty bipod on it. They can
Speaker 1: just shoot. They laugh after they shoot it because they're expecting,
Speaker 1: they're expecting it to be something that's not. But then
Speaker 1: there's like no recoil and they like giggle, you know,
Speaker 1: they like they like shooting.
Speaker 4: Tell me their tip to Steve about the ear plugs
Speaker 4: and stuff.
Speaker 1: Oh, even with the suppressor, I'll double ear plug them
Speaker 1: because they conflate, They conflate, recoiling noise, and it just
Speaker 1: becomes this package, do you know what I mean? The
Speaker 1: gifts that they don't like. And they think it's the kick,
Speaker 1: but it's like if you define them, you put foam
Speaker 1: ear plugs, put a headset on them, put a suppressor
Speaker 1: on it. They'll say it doesn't kick, but it's like
Speaker 1: because there's just no noise. I mean, it's like they
Speaker 1: to them, it's all this whole bundle of unpleasantness, right,
Speaker 1: you know, and it really helps Brian. You're listening to Brian.
Speaker 2: Harmon, happy to be here, Thanks for having me, Thanks
Speaker 2: for coming on.
Speaker 1: The only other golfer I would entertain having on this
Speaker 1: show is Trump. Have you ever played golf that guy?
Speaker 2: I have not really no Trump. No Trump, ye, really
Speaker 2: professional golfer.
Speaker 1: I thought he kind of ran in those circles.
Speaker 2: He does, he does. He went full. So I don't
Speaker 2: know if you followed the politics of golf.
Speaker 1: And well, I know there's a lot of trouble right now.
Speaker 2: Right so we had a big kind of split. You've
Speaker 2: got the Live Tour and the PGA tour, and Donald
Speaker 2: Trump aligned himself with the Live Tour and so.
Speaker 1: And that's that's the place that took some investment from
Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, directly funded by.
Speaker 1: But the Saudis, and people are mad at the Saudis
Speaker 1: because of the what was that guy's name, not progosion?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1: Mad at them for a whole host of reasons.
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, it's very, very very convoluted kingdom and
Speaker 2: all yep, yeah, no personal freedoms type type stuff.
Speaker 1: And then comprising astonishing number of the nine to eleven hijackers.
Speaker 2: There's a lot to it. Stage. I was going to say,
Speaker 2: right age, because how old are you? Then you pick
Speaker 2: your topic?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well no, I think he got back to
Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties. No one would have been mad.
Speaker 2: No, then it's just a fire flunk kingdom.
Speaker 1: It's just like it was oil and then people mad
Speaker 1: when the hell was that happened? It doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: Talking about Yeah, yeah, only.
Speaker 1: Golfer we'd ever have on what what count? Are you from?
Speaker 2: What what county?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Don't they call you the something killer from something? The
Speaker 2: U that was the Yeah, So yeah, I'm over there.
Speaker 2: I'm doing doing interviews after the rounds, and they asked
Speaker 2: about hunting and.
Speaker 1: Why did they ask you about hunting? So you tell
Speaker 1: me about what that You won the British Open.
Speaker 2: One won the Open Championship and you guys just.
Speaker 1: Call it the Open.
Speaker 2: Crint was telling When I was a kid, it was
Speaker 2: the British Open. Now it's the Open. They just decided,
Speaker 2: I guess because there's no competition. Yeah, it's open competition.
Speaker 1: Like know what I'm saying. No, no, when I say open,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry if you say the Open.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I grew up. The Open was the US Open.
Speaker 1: Okay, but.
Speaker 2: They just they took it. They just took they do this.
Speaker 2: They just they invented the game. We'll start there.
Speaker 1: That's fair.
Speaker 2: So anyway they look up, they don't they don't like
Speaker 2: the They don't like hunters over there at all. I've gathered.
Speaker 2: I didn't realize that. Uh so they're asking me, oh
Speaker 2: you know, and I'm like, wow, these guys are super
Speaker 2: interested about honey. This is great. I could talk all
Speaker 2: day about this.
Speaker 1: And so they just knew you won, and they already
Speaker 1: are prepared with the.
Speaker 2: Face before I had won. This was like, okay, second
Speaker 2: round opposition did they were dig They're like, oh, this
Speaker 2: asshole has got pictures of animals on his Instagram. We're
Speaker 2: gonna get him. And I'm us up there like, yeah,
Speaker 2: a farm all summer for the deer. Deer hunt, then
Speaker 2: we duck hunt, then we turkey hunt, then we fish
Speaker 2: all summer and and uh, they're like, well, what do
Speaker 2: you do with all of the animals that you kill? Said? Well,
Speaker 2: I I butcher them. Like what else would I do
Speaker 2: with them? And so the next day the tabloids like
Speaker 2: Brian the Butcher. So I think it's like this horrible. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: this is really gonna throw them off. I'm like, I
Speaker 2: love this, this is so nice. All my buddies are like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, here's a golfer. Golfer You like, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: that's what happened.
Speaker 1: And then we had the baseball player Pete Alonza line
Speaker 1: because he won the home run derby and talked about
Speaker 1: the home run derby, and then people then I wind
Speaker 1: up getting like I have a big text message web
Speaker 1: around the you know, just people that are interested in stuff,
Speaker 1: and so anytime something were to happen, like with you
Speaker 1: and then them making that big deal out of that,
Speaker 1: I will like find out about it from multiple people.
Speaker 1: And if I hear about something from three or four people.
Speaker 1: Then I'll be like, Okay, this needs to be paid
Speaker 1: attention to because I don't know if you know, but
Speaker 1: we goof on golf in a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've heard, yeh, I've heard.
Speaker 1: I should say we I'll point out Hunter Spencer's here.
Speaker 1: He I thought this meant a lot till Yanni pointed
Speaker 1: it out. It doesn't til Yanni invited me to think
Speaker 1: about it more clearly. It was described to me that
Speaker 1: Hunter almost played college, which I realized meant that he
Speaker 1: played high school, right, But in my head I had
Speaker 1: it built up more than that.
Speaker 2: Like played golf in college almost. Yeah.
Speaker 5: I was like just good enough and then realized maybe
Speaker 5: baseball is my thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yanni pointed out that's that's called a high school golfer.
Speaker 5: That's great, But then you quickly realized there's a there's
Speaker 5: a massive difference between being good enough to beat everybody
Speaker 5: that you grew up with and then playing d one.
Speaker 1: Oh, like beating the dudes down the road.
Speaker 2: Yeah, several like larger populated. I like, oh, this population
Speaker 2: turns into this like and just keeps smaller and smaller
Speaker 2: until you get like to let like that the high
Speaker 2: school golfer's pretty that's that's pretty far up the up,
Speaker 2: the trickle down the food. You guys played high school football,
Speaker 2: I will tell you, I'm sure your fine golf. My
Speaker 2: high school. The way they ran the golf team. This
Speaker 2: might be all high school golf teams, but it was
Speaker 2: basically like an open tournament, uh, during the week to
Speaker 2: see who would make the team to then go travel
Speaker 2: and do the the you know, the actual game is
Speaker 2: what I would call it. Uh. And I was like, well, ship,
Speaker 2: that sounds pretty fun. And so I showed up, borrowed
Speaker 2: my dad's golf clubs and was like, oh, I'll go
Speaker 2: try this out. Because it was like anybody can do it,
Speaker 2: and it was for me it was either do that
Speaker 2: or do track, which I hated, or go to work.
Speaker 2: So well, maybe I'll try this.
Speaker 1: One track golf for work.
Speaker 2: And uh yeah, quickly found out that I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: there's all these other people and then me it was
Speaker 2: it was I was it was a bad situation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I thought about this yesterday driving home. Here's
Speaker 1: here's the main reason I hate golf. When I was
Speaker 1: a kid, we lived, we grew up on a lake,
Speaker 1: and it was common to wap golf balls out in
Speaker 1: the lake and then you'd go dive for.
Speaker 2: Him, right, So it sounds fun. Yeah, it's just real common.
Speaker 2: Do you guys use wap as a term often at
Speaker 2: your level of golf?
Speaker 6: Uh?
Speaker 2: Now, I think it's a northern.
Speaker 1: Now. And then you'd set that ball on the tee
Speaker 1: and I'd get one of those you know, the driver,
Speaker 1: and you'd have in your head like I'm gonna cream
Speaker 1: this thing, dude, and you're picturing it like sailing across
Speaker 1: the lake, you know, and you cock back and just
Speaker 1: give it the whatfor and just could never. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: it was just like so maddening. Man. You want you'd
Speaker 1: be like woam, you know, and there's nothing.
Speaker 2: So you're your hatred golf is born from.
Speaker 1: Just watch you one to sail across the lake.
Speaker 2: General lack of skill is what led to your only one.
Speaker 1: You already sailing across the lake and it winds up
Speaker 1: like halfway out your neighbors stop.
Speaker 2: The first time the first time I shot a boat,
Speaker 2: there's no way I was any good at it. Just
Speaker 2: throw the boat down. Bow hunting stupid.
Speaker 3: I've always hated painting and music for the same reason.
Speaker 1: Uh tell me real quick too. You got two hold
Speaker 1: ones on a round. Yeah, but I don't official round, yeah.
Speaker 2: Official round. So that was that work out twenty fifteen.
Speaker 2: It was an expensive bar tab. I'll tell you that.
Speaker 2: We were playing just outside of New York City. Uh
Speaker 2: So when the tradition says you make hold and run,
Speaker 2: you've got the bar tab for the night, for the night,
Speaker 2: for the night, just for your for your or the whole,
Speaker 2: the whole whole shebang. It's it's like a right of passage.
Speaker 2: You make hold one. All the drinks are on you
Speaker 2: all night.
Speaker 1: Hopefully.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you heard, but new York City,
Speaker 2: the drinks are not yeah, hopefully they're not fantastic. Yeah,
Speaker 2: oh it's twenty dollars beer night.
Speaker 5: Sweet, you get like three cars. Sometimes in tournaments when
Speaker 5: you get a hold nothing.
Speaker 4: No, how much was that bar to out, dude?
Speaker 2: More than more than more than two grand, less than
Speaker 2: less than five Probably I would have confiscated everybody's cell phones.
Speaker 2: And here's the deal. There's no inviting other people into this.
Speaker 2: He definitely you definitely play it smart. It's like, ah,
Speaker 2: it's take a long shower in the hotel room, show
Speaker 2: up there. So at least you get the ride out
Speaker 2: some of it.
Speaker 1: No one's ever done three No, and three people have
Speaker 1: done two.
Speaker 2: Three people have done. It's just a freak for.
Speaker 1: Who are the other guys that did too?
Speaker 2: I don't know, So not like not like I don't
Speaker 2: know Greg Norman.
Speaker 1: No, you like that. Let just pull that out, La.
Speaker 2: Look at you to look at it when you hit
Speaker 2: that ball. Is there a point before the ball lands
Speaker 2: that you're like, oh, this thing's going in?
Speaker 1: That's a good question.
Speaker 2: I mean I've had three on tour total. They've all
Speaker 2: been good golf shots. But I mean, but there's no Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's probably there's.
Speaker 1: Like it came off a tree or something.
Speaker 2: No, no, it came off at I mean, you let
Speaker 2: it go and it's it's going and you know it's good.
Speaker 2: But you never you never know, You never really know.
Speaker 2: Like for me, it's like you try to get in
Speaker 2: this place where you're just you're in such like a
Speaker 2: mode of execution, and so it's just like you're just
Speaker 2: like ticking off like hit one, all right, I executed
Speaker 2: that one, and then you're just like, all right, what's
Speaker 2: the next one gonna be?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 2: So it's not really anything specific. I don't remember. It's like,
Speaker 2: oh shit, it went in great. That makes I can
Speaker 2: take a break.
Speaker 7: You're in that mode of execution. Uh, do you allow
Speaker 7: yourself to celebrate in that moment or do you have
Speaker 7: to you have to quickly tamper that down and go great,
Speaker 7: got it?
Speaker 2: Try to say as even keel as possible. Any anytime
Speaker 2: you try to excute something you're too high or too low,
Speaker 2: it's it's it's bad.
Speaker 7: I've been starting to relate that lot to bow hunting,
Speaker 7: because there's I often see promise about how how come
Speaker 7: you're not and it's not just to me but other people.
Speaker 7: You're not more excited when you kill something you know,
Speaker 7: or you make that great shot. It's like, well, my
Speaker 7: whole life as a hunter, I've been trying to achieve
Speaker 7: this state where I don't like out of my mind
Speaker 7: when I make that shot and all I do is execute,
Speaker 7: and you then it's done properly, and you know that
Speaker 7: happened properly, and you know sure later you can you know,
Speaker 7: partying and celebrate, But in that moment, it's kind of like, oh, okay,
Speaker 7: I stayed cool and I did it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, certain parts of your body, certain things in your brain.
Speaker 1: Like you know, I'm no neuroscientists, but I think that
Speaker 1: in your brain is little vials of No one's discovered
Speaker 1: to me that, but little vials of emotions.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry you said you're not a neuroscientice.
Speaker 1: You're already far beyond Well, this is my theory. I
Speaker 1: don't think anybody knows about it. But I think there's
Speaker 1: these little vials of of emotion, and as you get older,
Speaker 1: you drain that the vile empties out, Like excitability, I
Speaker 1: think you just use it up over time. I think,
Speaker 1: like fear of grizzly bears, you use up over time.
Speaker 1: And I've kind of drained out my vial of getting
Speaker 1: of real excitability.
Speaker 4: Yeah that's a thing.
Speaker 1: Though.
Speaker 4: You are adrenaline glands. Yeah, like they stopped putting. They're
Speaker 4: always over stimulated.
Speaker 1: Unlet's I see a big buckle with kids.
Speaker 2: I steal a quote from you. All the time, I
Speaker 2: thought you said, oh please, yeah, take a breath be
Speaker 2: a predator. Oh there you go so good?
Speaker 1: Or wear out your little vial of uh like, take
Speaker 1: a breath for your predator.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're interested in Neanderthals or not.
Speaker 2: Took a twenty three and Meion, apparently I'm in the
Speaker 2: ninety sixth percentile. You as soon as you walk, yeah,
Speaker 2: you felt you got that felt it.
Speaker 1: He's got that vibe. That beard, I.
Speaker 2: Think giant giant head.
Speaker 1: Speaking a giant head man. I got a physiology thing
Speaker 1: I found out there. I've always prided myself on being
Speaker 1: able to, uh tell if someone's a snorer just looking
Speaker 1: at him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you think do you think I'm a snore?
Speaker 1: You might be like I look at like I think
Speaker 1: a guy like Bob Vier, Kenny Rogers, you know, I'd
Speaker 1: be like, this guy's got this nugget. Definitely a Well,
Speaker 1: the other day when I'm still dealing with this ear problem,
Speaker 1: I got, I got a ear probe.
Speaker 2: The bad party is like the older people get the
Speaker 2: more right, you'll be, Well, here's what well just.
Speaker 1: Wait, yeah, you'll be. I thought it was something to
Speaker 1: do with like a certain like like if you got
Speaker 1: a beard down to your sternum, uh huh that like
Speaker 1: I felt that that leads to snoring. But I was
Speaker 1: down at the E. N T Place and they start
Speaker 1: asked me all these questions about sleep, appning, snoring, and
Speaker 1: they measured my.
Speaker 2: Neck you're down at the e MT place.
Speaker 1: Nt you no throat?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so.
Speaker 2: They measured that y emergency.
Speaker 1: If you got a sixteen inch neck, that's a that's
Speaker 1: how they'll tell, like, you got a sixteen inch neck,
Speaker 1: you're probably a snore. Really wow, And dude, I never
Speaker 1: knew what I was looking at. I just knew I
Speaker 1: could tell I was looking at the next.
Speaker 8: Hmmm, is it only sixteen or sixteen in above?
Speaker 1: Sixteen in above?
Speaker 2: I would think of skinny.
Speaker 1: I had no idea about this more.
Speaker 2: Uh it would be like less less, like a smaller straw.
Speaker 1: But uh so you have a heavy duty load of Neanderthal. Yes,
Speaker 1: I was reading this art this morning, like I've really
Speaker 1: enjoyed over the years how they keep Nanothals keep getting
Speaker 1: smarter and smarter. You know, there used to be this
Speaker 1: perception that, you know, that they couldn't hunt. They were
Speaker 1: just like they dragged their knuckles everywhere. But then but
Speaker 1: as he's you know, they more like that they find
Speaker 1: as some of these Neanderthal sites, like uh, shells that
Speaker 1: have holes boared in them, suggesting that they would adorn
Speaker 1: themselves with jewelry that they would etch, you know.
Speaker 2: Which means they had free time, which means they were
Speaker 2: doing enough things right to have free time. This like
Speaker 2: an onion, just keep peeling the l It's.
Speaker 1: Just been kind of interesting to watch because, you know,
Speaker 1: we had this idea that like that the other other
Speaker 1: hominids were just really dumb, you know, and then Homo
Speaker 1: sapiens just ran over them, and look how great we are.
Speaker 1: But you get into the fact that, I mean, these
Speaker 1: these things were in These things were in Europe hundreds
Speaker 1: of thousands of years, you know, I mean they were
Speaker 1: in Europe longer than we've been in Europe. So, but
Speaker 1: these guys in Germany have are looking at these uh
Speaker 1: they found remains of cave lions that had been Uh
Speaker 1: they were found remains of cave lions that they've deduced
Speaker 1: from cut marks had been hunted. So mixing it up
Speaker 1: with cave lions projectile point wounds in the rib cages.
Speaker 2: I thought you were gonna say they domesticated cave line.
Speaker 1: Next year we found an old bicycle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we found cave lines with jewel. Yeah.
Speaker 1: What else they have? It's cool is uh they have
Speaker 1: this cave remnants of a cave lion hide that had
Speaker 1: stuff wrapped, had cave lion bones wrapped up in a
Speaker 1: cave lion hide, like, and they were you know, you
Speaker 1: don't really who knows what was going on.
Speaker 2: But then they found another hide that had red paint
Speaker 2: all over it. So it's first animal rights.
Speaker 1: Or these researchers, These researchers. It's always a little embarrassing.
Speaker 1: I always feel embarrassed for the researchers when they lay
Speaker 1: out what they have right, and you know, and that
Speaker 1: winds up being it goes it's pure reviewed. You're like, well,
Speaker 1: here's the hide of the lion, and here's what's in it,
Speaker 1: and here's the marks on it. It's very you know,
Speaker 1: this is very objective analysis of what's laying there. But
Speaker 1: then they always have to then they start doing media
Speaker 1: and they have to get into where they're like, well
Speaker 1: it could mean, it could mean. What's so funny is
Speaker 1: one of the things I'm reading the New York Times
Speaker 1: they about these discoveries is this guy's like, well maybe
Speaker 1: it was and he was maybe it was a show
Speaker 1: and tell item for when they had to explain to
Speaker 1: kids about cave lions. Like you know, when you go
Speaker 1: to like when you go to a museum and you're
Speaker 1: a kid. They pull out like a tote and they
Speaker 1: got like a chunk of buffalo wool, a horn.
Speaker 3: Words to describe the way this hide.
Speaker 1: He's like now and then they're like, grand buck, can
Speaker 1: you get stuff about the cave line? He's like, here,
Speaker 1: let me get my hide and I have my show
Speaker 1: and tell items in there. But the other thing is
Speaker 1: they just thought that even back then, they're suggesting that
Speaker 1: they thought it was bad ass to have a cave
Speaker 1: lion hide. You were tougher in hell hard to argue
Speaker 1: with that. Yeah, you think that whatever you got there? Uh,
Speaker 1: winning that British Open School ain't no cave line.
Speaker 2: There's no cave line.
Speaker 1: What did they what? What you know? The tradition of
Speaker 1: the green jacket? What is there? What's the tradition at
Speaker 1: the British Open.
Speaker 2: That's a They give you a thing called a Claire Jug.
Speaker 2: It's one hundred and fifty year old trophy. It's got
Speaker 2: the names to edge to everyone that I've ever won it.
Speaker 2: It's pretty neat.
Speaker 1: And you get it for one year, get for a year.
Speaker 1: Where's that right now?
Speaker 2: The house and you drink out of it right.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 2: They built it to supposed to hold an entire bottle
Speaker 2: of line, but turns out it holds about two and
Speaker 2: a half guinnesses. Now because didn't there was one part
Speaker 2: of one of those articles that was, you know, trying
Speaker 2: to be like this guy's could win the Claret jug
Speaker 2: what will he fill it with based off of your
Speaker 2: hunting back right, Yeah, the butcher, butcher, Hoylake, Yeah, baron
Speaker 2: bourbon about the only things that's been in it. Really,
Speaker 2: that's funny. That's a lot of bourbon. Yeah yeah, well
Speaker 2: not not a bunch at a time, just enough to
Speaker 2: make someone uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: I guess.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, smart move going.
Speaker 1: Can We recently talked about if you were here, Yannie,
Speaker 1: We talked about hunting squirrels with Kevin Murphy and getting
Speaker 1: to a having a squirrel and a raccoon tree up
Speaker 1: in the same tree.
Speaker 8: Was not here for this conversation.
Speaker 1: Did I ever tell you the story.
Speaker 2: Is that the pinnacle of small game hunting.
Speaker 1: He I thought that this had to been the thing
Speaker 1: that has never happened in the history of the world,
Speaker 1: and Kevin Murphy assured me he's seen it before, where
Speaker 1: the dog bays up a squirrel and we get there
Speaker 1: and eighteen inches apart is a squirrel and a raccoon
Speaker 1: in the same tree. Coincidence, lots of ways to interpret it.
Speaker 1: A guy sent in, a guy that was listening sent
Speaker 1: in a picture he's got of a I mean, playing
Speaker 1: his day. There's a black barren a mountain lion hanging
Speaker 1: in the same ponderosa, treed up in the same tree,
Speaker 1: which he thinks is even cooler than what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: Scales bigger, scales, bigger. Uh, I don't even want to
Speaker 1: get into them. All I came up the old saying
Speaker 1: I had. I'll talk about this later. I'm trying to
Speaker 1: develop an old time he saying, and a lot of
Speaker 1: feedback on that. But uh, another thing, Danny, I'm telling
Speaker 1: you this because you're here. We're talking about Sigwatara. Brian.
Speaker 1: Is the part of the show where we do like
Speaker 1: listener feedback and whatnot.
Speaker 2: Let's do it's hang tight, I'm there, bud By Hank tight.
Speaker 2: It means you're welcome to participate in anytime.
Speaker 1: So there is a guy, so this guy took Since
Speaker 1: June we talked about this. There is a guy that
Speaker 1: that has established a website where you can track Sigwatara
Speaker 1: out by outbreaks and fish he has. He wrote a
Speaker 1: little tool for report well, he wrote a tool for
Speaker 1: reporting and finding sigwatara outbreaks around the world. So you
Speaker 1: people to eat a lot of fish. Sigwa ara dot info.
Speaker 3: Spelled how it sounds c I g u A t
Speaker 3: e r as house.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what the barracoota get in right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's like the you know, the like the legend
Speaker 1: is uh and and uh, the legend is and I
Speaker 1: was taught this uh, even though I grew up nowhere
Speaker 1: near the ocean.
Speaker 2: You're you're an ell of a spear fisherman.
Speaker 1: Now though, if you put a barracuda in an ant
Speaker 1: like you put an ant on a barracuda, I won't
Speaker 1: eat it. He won't eat it if it has sigwatara.
Speaker 1: And some Bahamians tell me that that's ridiculous, But then
Speaker 1: they had some other equally ridiculous sounding way to find
Speaker 1: out if something has sigwatara. But they also have fish
Speaker 1: that you just don't eat. But what I didn't realize
Speaker 1: is in some places kudah have sigatary. In some places
Speaker 1: they simply don't. And in Louisiana, you'll see in Louisiana Texas,
Speaker 1: you'll see barracuda on the menu at the restaurant.
Speaker 2: Well, so in the in the Gulf, all of the
Speaker 2: people eat amberjack that come off the reefs, but East
Speaker 2: coast Atlantic Ocean like won't touch them. Full of worms.
Speaker 2: It looks like a mott petti clean them up. In
Speaker 2: the Gulf, the trout have worms Atlantic nothing like we
Speaker 2: eat trout non stop. Remember I put a picture up
Speaker 2: of a whole bunch of trout sea trout and guy's like,
Speaker 2: oh man, good luck with those worms. And I was like,
Speaker 2: I have no idea what you're talking about. Parasite And
Speaker 2: I do know, Like when we used to king macrofish,
Speaker 2: if the sharks were bad, you'd have a king macre
Speaker 2: coming to the boat. A lot of times taxman gets
Speaker 2: half of him, you know. But if you ever had
Speaker 2: a barracuda come in to the boat, they wouldn't touch him.
Speaker 1: Sharks they didn't want it.
Speaker 2: They didn't want it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot of the barracuda right like the it's
Speaker 4: the little fish they get the cigatara and then the
Speaker 4: bear cood er eating those little fish and it just
Speaker 4: sits a build up in their system. Yeah, And so
Speaker 4: that's why the predators have it real bad.
Speaker 2: I just I've heard that that it comes from this
Speaker 2: reef fish. But then you think about the goliath grouper
Speaker 2: and I don't know that they have it. And all
Speaker 2: they do is, I mean they eat everything on the reef. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Like down in the Keys now, we just go down
Speaker 2: every for two weeks at the end of every summer,
Speaker 2: we go lobstering, and there were very few glath grouper.
Speaker 2: Now when my parents go down, they go down, they
Speaker 2: say every time, every all these lobster holes that they've
Speaker 2: they've saved over the years, there's a goliath grouper there
Speaker 2: and there's nothing on the bottom the lobsters.
Speaker 1: Oh he's in there mopping up all the lost.
Speaker 2: Everything, everything's gone. Well, I mean they get to be
Speaker 2: four or five hundred pounds. I mean they eat everything.
Speaker 4: Can you eat? Can you catch those and eat those?
Speaker 1: There's a you can get tags for them to right, yea,
Speaker 1: I went. We're on a dive in the rigs this year.
Speaker 1: We're in one that's only thirty feet of water. Like
Speaker 1: a lot of times they're just you know, unbelievably deep.
Speaker 1: This one's a thirty feet of water and I went
Speaker 1: down and and he's down there. Oh, like it looked
Speaker 1: like his head was like a five gallon bucket.
Speaker 4: Good God.
Speaker 1: And he's snapping his jaw at me. He's like coming
Speaker 1: out of this underneath this metal, blacking at me. And
Speaker 1: my first thing is like I was like, I wonder
Speaker 1: if you could kill this thing by hitting it in
Speaker 1: the brain. And I was like, oh my god, that's
Speaker 1: a goliath grooper. Like it's just like the first thought
Speaker 1: was how you would ever manage how you would ever
Speaker 1: manage like this?
Speaker 2: Jonah wasn't swallowed by whale, He's swallowed by Oh.
Speaker 1: And I came up and I'm like, there's a big
Speaker 1: They're like, don't shoot that, do not because you could
Speaker 1: have put I mean, they look like a school bus.
Speaker 1: You could fit. You could definitely fit your head in
Speaker 1: his mouth.
Speaker 2: No doubt. Does it make sense to you that it's
Speaker 2: an outbreak?
Speaker 4: Well, I only know about secretary just from why. I
Speaker 4: don't know like worldwide how because for and stuff. I
Speaker 4: don't think they deal with it. And but I do
Speaker 4: know that when we catch BRACU like offshore, the logic ones,
Speaker 4: there's not as big of a concern versus the ones
Speaker 4: that are eating the refish.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that it is.
Speaker 2: It's a bioaccumulation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think it's like I think it's cyclical
Speaker 1: and it gets heightened. It's like the way red tide.
Speaker 1: But I'll close it by saying this not clothed. I mean,
Speaker 1: you say whatever really want. But from my perspective, I
Speaker 1: used to think of trigonosis as like kind of magical,
Speaker 1: and then I eventually got where I really understand trigonosis.
Speaker 1: Uh with Sigwtara, I'm astonished how in my social circle,
Speaker 1: I'm astonished how little it's understood. Uh, Like I'd like
Speaker 1: to have a Segretara expert on the show. For not
Speaker 1: a long time.
Speaker 4: I've definitely had it and not even really paid attention
Speaker 4: to it, right like you just yeah, I've gotten sick.
Speaker 4: But like only looking back on it, I just felt
Speaker 4: odd and like the whole hot cold water thing, but
Speaker 4: I just didn't pay much attention to I was just like, oh.
Speaker 1: Whatever'll, that's what the Behamians are telling me. The hot
Speaker 1: becomes hot, cold becomes cold.
Speaker 2: Yeah. My buddy Mark Heely has I think a lot
Speaker 2: of bioaccumulation and so he's pretty sensitive to it.
Speaker 1: Gets it.
Speaker 2: He can be like, if I eat this giant TRIVALI
Speaker 2: I will get this. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Some people want fish like the aluta wee caught. Yeah
Speaker 4: you know, did you eat some of that?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, no problem.
Speaker 4: And some people and certain fish will have it with
Speaker 4: in higher concentration than others. And you know, I've had
Speaker 4: friends get sick over just one fish, one filet that
Speaker 4: night they had and they really Yeah.
Speaker 2: But as the the group that we were fishing with,
Speaker 2: the kill Kennies, they they're like, you can eat whatever
Speaker 2: you want because you don't have the history of eating
Speaker 2: these fish that accumulate secretera.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like the mercury too.
Speaker 1: Right now, why did you just do that little seque.
Speaker 2: Because that's how it's spelled right.
Speaker 1: No, No, I don't know. If it is, then the
Speaker 1: website's wrong. It reminds me. I think I've told this
Speaker 1: story before. I was in my doctor a long time ago.
Speaker 2: Were they EMTs hangout?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 1: But yeah, but it was a regular doctor. But he said,
Speaker 1: and I always call it tonightas he said, And I said,
Speaker 1: is that how you say that? And he goes, I
Speaker 1: don't know, yeah, man, Krinn maybe a great seguitara expert
Speaker 1: for like thirty minutes.
Speaker 4: And maybe somebody who's had it real bad too in
Speaker 4: the podcast.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, or a survivor or a member of someone,
Speaker 1: like like a really tragic story where someone didn't make it,
Speaker 1: but then we have their next of kin, the hard
Speaker 1: to get the.
Speaker 2: One that didn't make it. I definitely like to that's
Speaker 2: what guys all about.
Speaker 3: We could get a medium talk to the mercury and
Speaker 3: the big.
Speaker 2: Game fish is. It's an odd.
Speaker 4: I had a friend struggle with it for like three
Speaker 4: four years and just sick and then eventually couldn't get
Speaker 4: out of bed and like hurt the ache and all
Speaker 4: his all his joints ached and didn't know what's wrong
Speaker 4: with him. Mercury poisoning. Had to go on some crazy diet,
Speaker 4: get all them stop eating fish. And he was eating
Speaker 4: it like a couple of times a week, right, and
Speaker 4: uh it was bad, Like he couldn't walk. He thought
Speaker 4: he was dying.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he's got mercury poisoning. Are you say he
Speaker 1: didn't but he did?
Speaker 2: Do you believe that he did?
Speaker 4: Now?
Speaker 1: I do? Yeah, I believe that he got mercury. It
Speaker 1: all adds up. He construct the couple months of his
Speaker 1: life of eating big halibit and plagics five nights a week,
Speaker 1: and that him and his wife developed the same symptomology
Speaker 1: and had talked about it to other people before they
Speaker 1: talked about it to each other. Yeah, I love just
Speaker 1: too much. I love how they like the sore knuckle,
Speaker 1: the sore hands, and stiff joints, and.
Speaker 2: They were in just like a cycle of eating fish
Speaker 2: where they always had some more and so they were
Speaker 2: like constant. That was the most hilarious part to me.
Speaker 2: It wasn't ever like we're gonna sit down and eat
Speaker 2: fish tonight. It was just like this, well, there's some
Speaker 2: halibit out, and then we had or whatever.
Speaker 1: And so and so over and that's left over. And
Speaker 1: it's just like a cycle of a cycle of mercury intake.
Speaker 1: And then I read one time a dude they didn't
Speaker 1: even like fish. I had to get rescued off a
Speaker 1: cruise ship because he bought a cruise ship package which
Speaker 1: gave him all you could eat sushi, and they had
Speaker 1: to fly him off the cruise ship for mercury poisoning. Crazy,
Speaker 1: that's wild, because he was getting his money's worth.
Speaker 2: Does it just accumulate in some fish or is it
Speaker 2: all fish?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so like especially the bigger fish.
Speaker 2: And they started finding it in Kobea Yeah, yeah, East Coast, which.
Speaker 1: We all it's fish that eat fish, to eat fish
Speaker 1: that eat fish.
Speaker 4: And to now they'll say, like anything under twenty pounds,
Speaker 4: like you're safer, especially for pregnant ladies and stuff. You're
Speaker 4: not really supposed to eat fish. But like if it's
Speaker 4: under twenty pounds, they say they're a little safer. Again,
Speaker 4: I don't know how that's like could be an old
Speaker 4: lives tale, but they say the bigger the fish, the
Speaker 4: worse off you are.
Speaker 2: Well, no, I think the reason it makes sense, right
Speaker 2: is like they they grow super fast and then they
Speaker 2: hit like a plateau point. So when you're you're income
Speaker 2: to growth is in a certain range, right, that makes
Speaker 2: sense like mahi mahi, right, like mahi don't Yeah, but.
Speaker 4: Like at ahi stay at one hundred pounds to pounds
Speaker 4: for a couple of years or whatever. Yeah, but that
Speaker 4: first you could go from zero to sixty pounds in
Speaker 4: one year. You know, Korean you can cancel that, expert,
Speaker 4: just wrap that up.
Speaker 1: So this is this is the last thing, and then
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about the formative years of of Brian Harmon.
Speaker 1: I like to I like to periodically revisit this because
Speaker 1: is one of my favorite quotes of all time. I
Speaker 1: grew up so my dad, like my dad one hundred
Speaker 1: and fished, both fished with other World War two guys
Speaker 1: and meaning I should not that they not that they
Speaker 1: were necessarily World War Two guys guys of that age. Okay.
Speaker 1: He was really good friends with this guy named Ron Spring.
Speaker 1: Ron Spring had owned Springs Sporting Goods and was a
Speaker 1: bait supplier, so he was in the live bait business.
Speaker 1: He wigglers, crawlers, shiners, right. I one time went to
Speaker 1: profile Ron Spring and he wouldn't let me. And I
Speaker 1: grew up around him. I mean, I grew up with
Speaker 1: this guy. He wouldn't let me profile him because he
Speaker 1: was no way going to give away trade secrets about
Speaker 1: how he catches leeches, how he catches wigglers, and carried
Speaker 1: that shit to the grave.
Speaker 2: That's beautiful in his eighties.
Speaker 1: I was like, Ron, what's the difference now? Not going
Speaker 1: to do it? Would not let me go out with
Speaker 1: him catching bait for the bait story, which I respect
Speaker 1: him for a big time. Anyhow, this dude had been
Speaker 1: raised on Great Lakes fish. I mean not just the bait,
Speaker 1: but that's what he fished and ate fish. That's all
Speaker 1: this dude eight And University of Michigan went and found
Speaker 1: all these old timers that had grown up eating Great
Speaker 1: Lakes fish. And he would have to go down there
Speaker 1: every few months to do these tests and studies and shit,
Speaker 1: because they're trying to check on these elevated heavy metals
Speaker 1: from people to consume diets of fish out of the
Speaker 1: Great Lakes. And he'd go in there and they'd give
Speaker 1: them a list of shit. They'd be like, Okay, Ron,
Speaker 1: you need to go to the grocery store and buy
Speaker 1: me pound of butter, two pounds of burger jar, peanut butter,
Speaker 1: some asparagus, some bubblegum, some mouthwash, right, whatever the hell.
Speaker 1: And they'd wait a minute and they'd be like, Okay,
Speaker 1: what are you supposed to buy at the store. And
Speaker 1: he said to me one day, he goes, Steve, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't have remembered that list if I never ate a
Speaker 1: piece of fish my whole life.
Speaker 2: So grubbing Georgia, yep, grubbing Savannah.
Speaker 1: Just what came first?
Speaker 2: Golfer hunting, hunting fishing. For sure. I played first. Oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: for sure. Yeah. I didn't start golf until I was
Speaker 2: probably eleven years old. I played baseball, football, basketball, played
Speaker 2: all stuff. Didn't find golf until like a little later
Speaker 2: in my childhood. But but fishing, grow up fishing with
Speaker 2: my dad is how.
Speaker 1: Was he a golfer?
Speaker 2: No, no, no golf in my family. He might eat,
Speaker 2: he might hate golf worse than you do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you get it? It's like you didn't come
Speaker 1: from a family of golfers.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 2: No, my mom's a chemist, chemist, my dad is a dentist. No, no,
Speaker 2: no golf. So when you started taking off in golfing,
Speaker 2: was your dad like, great day to go fishing, Brian?
Speaker 2: He just, uh, it was all that I cared about
Speaker 2: once I found it, And so I spent a good
Speaker 2: portion of I mean, that's pretty much spent all my
Speaker 2: time dedicated to trying to see how good I could
Speaker 2: get as all I wanted to do.
Speaker 1: Who got who? Some neighbor gives you a golf club
Speaker 1: or like what happens?
Speaker 2: I had accumulated like just through sports. I had sort
Speaker 2: of like loose equipment for things like my dad owned
Speaker 2: like I had, I had small like clubs, just like
Speaker 2: all like maybe maybe he because we lived really close
Speaker 2: to a golf course, like maybe he'll like golf one day.
Speaker 2: And like just like I've accumulated all this nonsense for
Speaker 2: my kids, just like trying to throw whatever.
Speaker 1: At him, Like, well, what got a hockey, baseball bat,
Speaker 1: a golf club?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 2: I got got all the got all the essentials. So
Speaker 2: I I was home sick from school anyway, I'd skipped
Speaker 2: a Thursday of school. When I was home, I forget
Speaker 2: what the circumstances were, but I watched a golf terminal
Speaker 2: on television, and I was close enough to where I
Speaker 2: could ride my bike up to like where we could practice,
Speaker 2: like hit balls. And that's how it started.
Speaker 1: Really yep, it spoke to you watching a golf tournament.
Speaker 2: I found. I found a conviction very early in my life,
Speaker 2: and I'm very grateful for that. I mean, I love
Speaker 2: to just right off the rip. I played baseball, and
Speaker 2: I loved I pitched. I love to pitch, played shortstop.
Speaker 2: But and I loved being on a team. But I
Speaker 2: didn't I didn't like. I didn't like how I could
Speaker 2: have a great game and not I mean, I hate
Speaker 2: saying that, like not win the game like that. I
Speaker 2: liked having the like the almost the vulnerability of the
Speaker 2: moment on you right, yea, So.
Speaker 1: Give me, give me the quick trajectory of how one
Speaker 1: goes from an eleven year old who discovers it to
Speaker 1: to pro like, like what are the you know?
Speaker 2: Like, so I fell in love with the game. I
Speaker 2: was practicing every day. I was playing with some older
Speaker 2: kids and playing from like tea boxes. So the golf
Speaker 2: course I was playing was too long for my ability,
Speaker 2: Like I wasn't big enough to hit the ball far
Speaker 2: enough to compete with the kids I was starting to
Speaker 2: play with. But I would get these golf magazines and
Speaker 2: I'd look at the scores of these local, like nine
Speaker 2: whole golf tournaments, and I'm looking at the distance that
Speaker 2: they're playing from, and I'm like, oh, like, if I
Speaker 2: moved up and played in these tournaments, I think I
Speaker 2: would do. Okay, my mom signed me up for one.
Speaker 2: She drives me down to say at Simon's where I live.
Speaker 1: Now, you're talking about playing at a place where it's
Speaker 1: not as far from where you first hit as it
Speaker 1: is to the hole.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, so yeah, I'm yeah, yeah, yeah, So
Speaker 2: you start so you got individual holes, right, I mean
Speaker 2: I do have to, like, you know how golf is, like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's there's the there's the part three what do
Speaker 1: you call them? Where the two there's you got the two.
Speaker 2: Balls, that's tea box.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you got the ladies one.
Speaker 2: Right, So you've got several sets of those tee markers. Right,
Speaker 2: so you've got like, I'm familiar with two sets ladies teas,
Speaker 2: you know, senior tea's, men's tea's. Oh yeah, so it's okay,
Speaker 2: all the whole gambit. So I'm playing from a couple
Speaker 2: of tea boxes back with older kids, and I'm shooting
Speaker 2: these scores and I'm no and I'm no good.
Speaker 1: Because that extra little bit of yard, I can't.
Speaker 2: I can't reach the holes, you know, in time to
Speaker 2: make a good score. So I'm looking at the magazines
Speaker 2: looking at the scores like I think I can do this,
Speaker 2: So my mom drives me down. I win my first
Speaker 2: tournament and it was like just gone. So that that went.
Speaker 2: I was twelve. Did you feel like you were cheating
Speaker 2: when you moved up to that? For sure? You were like,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I did.
Speaker 1: I did.
Speaker 2: I was like, this is much easier from here. I
Speaker 2: should have been doing this this whole time.
Speaker 1: So you did, but you did this, say. I always
Speaker 1: pictured that. It's such a common story in athletics, is
Speaker 1: the overbearing especially parent like golf and tennis, trying to
Speaker 1: like live there like they're you know, they're trying to
Speaker 1: live their dreams the children.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you totally. I was super blessed, totally opposite, even
Speaker 2: like now, even like now, you know, we'll be at
Speaker 2: like a big PG or we'll be at the Masters,
Speaker 2: right and my dad's there watching begrudgingly of course he's
Speaker 2: like Brian rather to be fishing. Yeah's come. It's always
Speaker 2: like man, look atlways acorns right here, like man, look
Speaker 2: at like look at he's look at this track right,
Speaker 2: look at this deer track right here. So he's totally unengaged.
Speaker 2: But I'm glad that he I'm glad that he like
Speaker 2: wasn't like super pushy, because I don't know if I
Speaker 2: would have found the same love and conviction for you
Speaker 2: to have.
Speaker 3: That baggage with your relationship to the sport.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know anyone. I mean there's one tour, now,
Speaker 2: there's tons of there's guys that had overbearing parents and
Speaker 2: guys who had not involved parents, but the ones who
Speaker 2: had overbearing dads don't talk to them like most of
Speaker 2: them have no Yeah, they have no. I mean how
Speaker 2: how could it stay together?
Speaker 1: Like it?
Speaker 2: Just like if a parent is so selfish to try
Speaker 2: and achieve a dream through their kid and eventually the
Speaker 2: kid is going to resent them in some form or fashion.
Speaker 2: In my opinion, I've got I've sucks the joy right
Speaker 2: out of it, right, Yeah, look.
Speaker 1: At you know, like Darth Vader and Loose Skywalker.
Speaker 2: Perfect exactly. But we just talked to Dave.
Speaker 1: Off, uh when you did that and one of the tournament.
Speaker 1: Here's the part of the here's the other part of
Speaker 1: the parent thing that's hard to understand is you got
Speaker 1: to have someone driving you around and getting the gear
Speaker 1: and all that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my sweet mother she took me everything though she
Speaker 2: didn't care about it. I mean she cared, She cared
Speaker 2: way more than my dad does. But she never it
Speaker 2: was never she was always very supportive. She was never like, hey,
Speaker 2: you know, it's you know, nine in the morning, like
Speaker 2: you should be practicing. Like that never happened.
Speaker 1: That did not happen. But if you pointed out that
Speaker 1: you wanted to go to some things. She was gonna
Speaker 1: was there.
Speaker 2: I don't. There's no way I would have made it
Speaker 2: and been successful without that support. I would have had
Speaker 2: have gotten really creative.
Speaker 1: But you could have gotten into like you could have
Speaker 1: been an aquarium enthusiasts. She would have driven you to
Speaker 1: the store. Correct, just whatever. She was just going to
Speaker 1: help you out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was. She loved tennis, shouldn't play. She just
Speaker 2: loved tennis. And I played tennis early and played a
Speaker 2: few tournaments and stuff like that, and she really wanted
Speaker 2: me to be a tennis player. But when I decided
Speaker 2: that golf was what I wanted to do, and it's
Speaker 2: just what and she she never brought it up.
Speaker 1: And like golf tennis like kissing cousins.
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty close, pretty close individual so except one of
Speaker 2: their arms gets freakishly bigger than the other. Gosh, and
Speaker 2: the Dow's left arm is three times the size of
Speaker 2: his right arm. Whoa really yeah, look it up.
Speaker 1: Seriously?
Speaker 2: Yeah huge.
Speaker 1: Hey do you have a U Do you have like
Speaker 1: a really uh intimate relationship with a with a particular caddy?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Mine, that's what I mean. Yeah, that's the thing I
Speaker 1: did so so how many years?
Speaker 2: How many years we've been together? Eleven years, probably the
Speaker 2: longest tenured guys out there. It's a really interesting Yeah,
Speaker 2: six hours a day together.
Speaker 1: When I learned about that in golf, that surprised me
Speaker 1: that this is this is like a it's a it
Speaker 1: becomes a partnership.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and those guys are they're really good at what
Speaker 2: they do. I mean, my guy's got to know how
Speaker 2: to read me and knowing I'm running hot and running cold,
Speaker 2: and you know, he's like not just being a caddy.
Speaker 5: It's like a psychologist.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, somebody did. Oh, he probably knows me better
Speaker 2: than my wife does. Yeah, you know, any and I
Speaker 2: probably know him better than anybody.
Speaker 1: Else on the you know, it's just is he just
Speaker 1: on a cut of winning? Like, how do you guys
Speaker 1: sort that whole deal out?
Speaker 2: Yeah? He gets uh, he's on a salary every week
Speaker 2: and then he gets a percentage of all the en
Speaker 2: core stuff.
Speaker 1: Do you guys do monthly reviews? And like.
Speaker 2: Just over a beer? Does he usually over a beer.
Speaker 2: It's tough because when you're in the when you're in
Speaker 2: the moment and you've got these emotions running high, it's
Speaker 2: really easy to be like, well, shut up, like, I
Speaker 2: don't care what you think right now. So it's usually
Speaker 2: better just get past it and have a beer and
Speaker 2: just talk about it.
Speaker 1: So is the caddie like, uh, did they want to
Speaker 1: be a professional golfer?
Speaker 2: A lot of them did, my mind did not. He
Speaker 2: played college golf, but it was apparent to him very
Speaker 2: quickly that it was in his future.
Speaker 1: So you when you're a caddy, you get you settle
Speaker 1: into that, like that's that's what you want to be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think there are any caddies. I don't
Speaker 2: think there's any professional caddies now on tour that have
Speaker 2: aspirations of playing.
Speaker 1: It's just just good at that.
Speaker 2: That's their job.
Speaker 1: Huh yep.
Speaker 2: It's a real profession. It's it's it's hard work.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you something about my personal business. Please do
Speaker 1: a book agent. Traditionally, a book agent is going to
Speaker 1: pull fifteen percent. Okay, okay, now you share.
Speaker 2: Well, first off, thank you for sharing some intimate details
Speaker 2: of oul books work. I got yeah, I mean I
Speaker 2: got agent, taddy. They all get percentages.
Speaker 1: That's some curious like, just now, I'm not asking about
Speaker 1: your relationship with your caddy. What's it like if you win,
Speaker 1: what do you guys call it a purse? Surprise?
Speaker 2: Yeah, the tournament win, the trophy?
Speaker 1: No, no, what is the cash amount called the purse?
Speaker 1: What do you guys use Yeah?
Speaker 2: So yeah, just the I mean, the purse is usually
Speaker 2: considered the entire the entire thing we're playing for. So
Speaker 2: just be like the winner's cut, winter's check, winter's check.
Speaker 2: So you won't to know how much? How much does
Speaker 2: my caddy get? A caddy?
Speaker 1: What generally is a caddy OH industry standard or high
Speaker 1: school golf professional industry standard hunter spencer.
Speaker 2: Is AH industry standard six to eight percent of the
Speaker 2: weekly take and then ten percent of a win.
Speaker 1: So they're pretty invested in this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they make good money, they do good. They make
Speaker 2: good money.
Speaker 1: But that's funny too, because then it becomes real emotional.
Speaker 1: It's emotional for both of you guys, because when you're
Speaker 1: up there and you're close, he's he's licking his lips too, right, Well,
Speaker 1: what he's like, Hey, if my guy here can doesn't
Speaker 1: screw this up, I get like a good chunk of cash.
Speaker 2: Well, there's two ways to look at that. Do you
Speaker 2: do all this for the money?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 1: No, But it makes it possible right right.
Speaker 2: The money, it's like it becomes very complicated. The money.
Speaker 2: It's and I can speak for his name, Scott Toway.
Speaker 2: He's one of the most fantastic people on this plane.
Speaker 2: He's my caddie. The money is always like, oh oh wow,
Speaker 2: that that too. Oh you know what I mean. So
Speaker 2: he he works, he does what he loves to do it,
Speaker 2: and I love and I love to do what I do.
Speaker 2: And it's about us trying to beat the golf course,
Speaker 2: beat all the other players, beat the conditions, and like
Speaker 2: that feeling that we get when we've done something successful,
Speaker 2: like that's why we we do it. That's why we
Speaker 2: do it together. That's why we met each other. Like
Speaker 2: that is why we do it. And so then like
Speaker 2: the money's like oh cool man, like high five.
Speaker 1: No, I could picture that. Like if you're up there
Speaker 1: and it's down to the wire, you're not like counting dollars,
Speaker 1: you're chasing the wind.
Speaker 2: Well that's and it's like so I think it's it's
Speaker 2: a great exercise. And I swear someone came up with
Speaker 2: it to mess with people. But when you get done,
Speaker 2: so I'm going if you have to keep your keep
Speaker 2: someone else's score, Like this is sort of the pageantry
Speaker 2: of the whole thing. You have to keep the other
Speaker 2: person's score, and then you trade scorecards and you sign
Speaker 2: your own scorecards. So it's like a little bit of
Speaker 2: a I don't know, yeah, it's it's it's a little
Speaker 2: it's a little antiquated.
Speaker 1: But so you get into the presumably someone else is
Speaker 1: also keeping score.
Speaker 2: Right, right, So say you've got say there's two people playing,
Speaker 2: I keep their score, they keep my mind. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: can you imagine, like Tom Brady, how many passes did
Speaker 2: you complete? Uh, but if you get the but if
Speaker 2: you get it wrong, if you sign the wrong scorecard,
Speaker 2: and you can get disqualified, whole things could put whole
Speaker 2: thing's gone.
Speaker 1: A tournament.
Speaker 2: At a tournament, I am still with pen and pencil
Speaker 2: or pencil and paper writing down right down some other
Speaker 2: score and then he I signed that one. So so
Speaker 2: every scorecard has to have all scores and two signatures
Speaker 2: for it to be legal and official.
Speaker 1: I would have thought at this point they would have
Speaker 1: hired like a guy to watch.
Speaker 2: I'm those people. Yeah, there also are are. Yeah, we
Speaker 2: could just be like hey, bro, like today like this
Speaker 2: and you're.
Speaker 1: Doing it because he's telling you, or because you're counting.
Speaker 2: Now, I'm counting, okay, yeah yeah, I mean they get
Speaker 2: it's like official, yeah, I know it's it's but anyway,
Speaker 2: so and so you go into this area where you
Speaker 2: trade your scorecard, sign turn it into the guy who
Speaker 2: checks him, and then that's that. But in that room
Speaker 2: they have the PGA tores this print out and it's
Speaker 2: like first place, this much, second place, this much, third place,
Speaker 2: and it's got.
Speaker 1: It all the way down this much of the win.
Speaker 2: And it's always fun to watch guys get in there
Speaker 2: and you know here, I'm I'm gonna finish twenty fifth
Speaker 2: and eight way time be right here. And I just
Speaker 2: especially when it's a young guy and I look at
Speaker 2: that and I'm like, I ain't got it. He ain't
Speaker 2: got it, Like if that's what you're caring about right now,
Speaker 2: like if he finished twenty Like when I finished twenty fifth,
Speaker 2: like twenty four, people beat me, Like what's the best
Speaker 2: way to get up there? Because the biggest checks that
Speaker 2: that top one.
Speaker 1: Yeah one.
Speaker 2: So he's you know, going down to x Y like
Speaker 2: oh okay, okay, I'm gonna be is he just trying to.
Speaker 7: Make enough money? So you can play next week. I
Speaker 7: mean maybe, but or there are there not anybody in
Speaker 7: on the professional tour that's that starting.
Speaker 2: There's nobody on the PGA Tour that's gonna lose money
Speaker 2: for a year now. But jumping back to the Caddy conversation,
Speaker 2: because of your guys bond and uh, your common goal
Speaker 2: of just getting better, you don't have to worry about
Speaker 2: like Scott throwing a little HG H in your iced
Speaker 2: tea or no, you know, like a thoroughbred race horse
Speaker 2: that maybe just needs an extra extra jump on the line.
Speaker 2: I wish. Now we get uh, we get drug tested
Speaker 2: like every three weeks every month. Really oh yeah, World
Speaker 2: Anti Doping m wow.
Speaker 1: So what uh, first of are you thirty six?
Speaker 2: Okay, what's the old golfer thirty seven? Uh, there's guys
Speaker 2: in their forties that are still doing it, doing it
Speaker 2: really really well. Yeah, Matt Kocher, Jack Johnson, these guys
Speaker 2: that they are just kind of timeless. But I mean,
Speaker 2: so there's a senior tour that starts at fifty. There's
Speaker 2: a lot of guys in limbo, you know, forty one
Speaker 2: to fifty years old.
Speaker 1: Oh, where you're dragging ass before you get.
Speaker 2: Well, you just you know, it's a it's a physical game.
Speaker 2: You hit the ground as hard as you can with
Speaker 2: a stick for thirty years. You know, shit wears out,
Speaker 2: what winds up.
Speaker 1: So what's the thing that goes is it? Is it
Speaker 1: driving distance?
Speaker 2: Yeah? And then I think it's the one too. You know,
Speaker 2: I've got three kids. We spend thirty some odd weeks
Speaker 2: on the road a year.
Speaker 4: I do.
Speaker 2: They probably travel with me. I don't know. It used
Speaker 2: to be sixty seventy percent of the time. Now it's
Speaker 2: twenty or thirty percent of the school and everything. Yeah,
Speaker 2: esus end up. You know, you're by yourself in a
Speaker 2: hotel room for thirty weeks a year, and at some
Speaker 2: point you get to an age and you're like, I
Speaker 2: don't want to do this anymore, Like this is Oh,
Speaker 2: it's like I'd just rather be run out of girl. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you run out of run out of heart. Run.
Speaker 1: I want to does your caddy hunt fish?
Speaker 8: Uh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's coming with me A couple of times. He
Speaker 2: loves to his brother. His older brother is Bob Tway,
Speaker 2: famous golfer, and he just bought him a little place
Speaker 2: out in Colorado. So he's about the trailer his whole
Speaker 2: tractor and all his outfit up to Colorado. Try to
Speaker 2: help him out. What do you mean just doing ship
Speaker 2: cutting stuff down proving the land.
Speaker 1: Oh, so he's doing helped do some wildlife management landscape work.
Speaker 1: That's cool.
Speaker 2: So he loves the he loves the hunt. He fly
Speaker 2: fishes a little bit. He's been down to the Keys
Speaker 2: a few times fly fishing, but he uh mostly just
Speaker 2: hangs out with his boys and comes to work. Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: What uh? How do you rank your guys' uh performance
Speaker 2: in like the snappy dresser lineup and the clothing and
Speaker 2: golf is such a nuts deal. Now, I'm I'm a
Speaker 2: people is that could possibly get guy? I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't like to you don't wear pink pants.
Speaker 2: No, sir, no white belts, no pink pants. I don't
Speaker 2: dress up like an easter egg.
Speaker 1: What colors?
Speaker 2: The solid grays, white blacks?
Speaker 1: So what uh? You know you don't have to tell
Speaker 1: me this with you specifically, but just in a norm
Speaker 1: do you guys lift every day? Like, like, what's what's
Speaker 1: the expectation on physical training for what you guys do?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 2: At home? I train uh three days a week in
Speaker 2: the gym. I do another day of like, uh, like
Speaker 2: body reassessment. And then most of us have these pets
Speaker 2: that travel, and so we're getting constant work on the road.
Speaker 2: I'm only one day a week training, but when I'm
Speaker 2: on the road, I'm at the course probably six days
Speaker 2: a week. So you know, there's a difference between like
Speaker 2: being in like really good athletic shape and really good
Speaker 2: golf shape like golf shapes more flexibility and repetition, and
Speaker 2: you know, we do most most of my gym stuff
Speaker 2: is to try and increase distance, but most of all
Speaker 2: like decrease injury, like just trying to bulk up as
Speaker 2: much as I can to where I my body can
Speaker 2: take the impact because like me, think about it, you
Speaker 2: go chop wood all day, hands hurt, shoulders hurt, back hurts.
Speaker 2: Like that impact and that sudden deceleration, it just like
Speaker 2: it wears you out.
Speaker 1: What's the most common injury?
Speaker 2: Backs, backs, hands, wrists, elbows, shoulders, That's where it goes.
Speaker 1: And then uh, like how does your hunting fishing calendar,
Speaker 1: Like summer's out, Yeah, what's the hunting fishing calendar for?
Speaker 2: Well, you're just well, we just we switched the schedule
Speaker 2: around a little bit on the PGA Tours, where if
Speaker 2: you have a nice year, you can take most of
Speaker 2: the fall off.
Speaker 1: What's a nice you mean you want some money.
Speaker 2: You've want some money. You're finishing a certain echelone so
Speaker 2: that you can afford to take Because last eleven years,
Speaker 2: our seasons they've started in October and they've ended in
Speaker 2: mid September, and so it's a constant like what yeah,
Speaker 2: it's a constant year round like schedule. So like the
Speaker 2: most time I would have had off any given period
Speaker 2: would have been like three weeks of no golf, no tournament,
Speaker 2: nothing like important that I felt like I had to
Speaker 2: play in. It's like the way that you keep your
Speaker 2: job on the PGA Tour is that it's a year
Speaker 2: long like points list, and if you finish inside the
Speaker 2: top one twenty five, you get your job for the
Speaker 2: next year. And so it's basically been like a constant
Speaker 2: revolving door the last eleven years. Like if you don't
Speaker 2: win a tournament, you win a tournament, you've got a
Speaker 2: two year exemption or whatever it is. But you're almost
Speaker 2: constantly under stress of like, oh, I have to go
Speaker 2: play at least a little in order to get ahead enough.
Speaker 1: So they'll play, right, But if you win a big
Speaker 1: tournament you get pulled out.
Speaker 2: Of that, you end up with different exemptions and different
Speaker 2: like access. It's all about your access to these tournaments.
Speaker 3: You don't have to chase it year round, right, So.
Speaker 1: If you win a tournament, you're thinking, well, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go take some time off.
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Is that what you do that?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 2: I haven't touched it. I've touched the club once since
Speaker 2: the Ryder Cup that was four weeks ago. What have
Speaker 2: you been doing farming unsuccessfully? Unsuccessfully?
Speaker 1: Tell me about your farm program?
Speaker 2: What do you what do you I bought a place
Speaker 2: last year, a big piece of hunting ground about an
Speaker 2: hour south of where I live, and it's just I've
Speaker 2: been just immersing myself and trying to manage it for
Speaker 2: the wildlife.
Speaker 1: And what kind of ground is it?
Speaker 2: Wet? Very very wet, a lot of upland a lot
Speaker 2: of upland ponds. You know, in Georgia we do the
Speaker 2: whole pine tree farm regeneration, you know, regenerating the land
Speaker 2: and stuff like that. So I've got when you say pines,
Speaker 2: what lob lolly pines like lob lolly slash? Very few
Speaker 2: long leaf anymore. But when they you know, they come
Speaker 2: and they clear cut and then they replant the pines
Speaker 2: and rows. So we've got probably half of it of
Speaker 2: my farms in that.
Speaker 1: And that's like a forty year cycle or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, thirty to forty years. Yeah, So lots of
Speaker 2: burning down, a lot of burning. But it's tough because
Speaker 2: I'm right on the ocean and at every tide the
Speaker 2: wind switches, so you've got the time to burn up
Speaker 2: for It's like, oh, we want a perfect west wind.
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, but it's high tide in two hours
Speaker 2: and the winds switching.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And there's all these ye neighbors everywhere, right, So I
Speaker 2: mean this.
Speaker 1: Is so this is embarrassing if this is a widely
Speaker 1: known thing. But the wind switches with the tide swing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because of the well, I mean, the the water
Speaker 2: that's in you know, the water waterfferent water temperature and
Speaker 2: the land temperature different. And it's not it's not like
Speaker 2: you'll have a twenty mins out and colder it'll flip it,
Speaker 2: you know, slack tide. You know, it'll change a little bit.
Speaker 2: So if you're planning on a west wind for a
Speaker 2: burn and all of a sudden you get an east one. Well,
Speaker 2: now you're running a head fire through something that you
Speaker 2: couldn't and you might be in some trouble.
Speaker 1: You're you're hunting land is on the coast.
Speaker 2: It's it's within Yeah, it's within half a quarter mile
Speaker 2: of like not open ocean, but like back river.
Speaker 1: Brackish oce shot it got it, so we do.
Speaker 2: I've got about twenty five acres worth of food plots
Speaker 2: that we tried.
Speaker 1: And what'd you try for that we do this?
Speaker 2: It's it's oats, wheat, rape, radishes. We tried to a
Speaker 2: lot of years. Will top seed it with these iron
Speaker 2: clay peas trying to stay away from like the rye
Speaker 2: grass that it's not native, and it'll seed out in
Speaker 2: just a nightmare.
Speaker 1: Oh, it spreads, It spreads like a radish. Don't no
Speaker 1: one now?
Speaker 2: Our turkey numbers are really good. We've tried to, like
Speaker 2: said burning and uh, but the water has been the
Speaker 2: big problem. We've too much of it, too much, too
Speaker 2: much water got beavers. Got so many beavers really.
Speaker 4: But.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're they're not the pretty ones. They're not. I'm
Speaker 2: not sure they're fur is worth worth much of anything?
Speaker 1: Is your is your dad. He likes his land. Heal
Speaker 1: probably loves it.
Speaker 2: He loves it. He retired last year, and he's he's
Speaker 2: my man. He's my land manager right down there. He's
Speaker 2: doing great.
Speaker 1: So what what's you guys, what's you guys goal with
Speaker 1: the place?
Speaker 2: Well, that's that's where I struggle, because I've got, you know,
Speaker 2: some sorry. So for example, I've got I've got these
Speaker 2: trees that are ready to be cut, ready to be harvested.
Speaker 2: And you cut these trees down, and it's like, well, now,
Speaker 2: now what do I do?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: Traditionally there you would replant it in rows, you know,
Speaker 2: with this mounded up with these pine trees, and in
Speaker 2: thirty years we'd cut it down again. And I just
Speaker 2: don't know if that's the way, Like, I don't, I
Speaker 2: don't know if that's. So I'm tempted to make it
Speaker 2: to try to restore, try to figure out what it
Speaker 2: was and maybe restore it that way.
Speaker 1: Can I help you with this?
Speaker 2: Of course you can't. Can I connect you with Robert
Speaker 2: Abernathy that'd be fantastic, Oh dude, we got yeah. I mean,
Speaker 2: if you just realize that trees didn't naturally grow like that,
Speaker 2: it could be no, the wildlife benefit.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 2: The reason I struggle with it is that so I
Speaker 2: bought this farm selfishly because I love to hunt and
Speaker 2: I love to I love everything that goes involved. I
Speaker 2: like it topped to bottom. I like the farm. I
Speaker 2: like killing them, I like eating them, I like butcher
Speaker 2: I like all of it. But I don't know what
Speaker 2: my kids are going to be into. Yeah, it's like
Speaker 2: and part of that, it's like if I replant these
Speaker 2: trees because it's a successful way to grow timber and
Speaker 2: to harvest it and it's sustainable.
Speaker 1: So you're being torn. It's like, do you want to
Speaker 1: pull it out of commercial right?
Speaker 2: Don't want to stop, you know, taking any sort of
Speaker 2: income off the land because I care about the landscape,
Speaker 2: or you know, do I kick the can down.
Speaker 1: A little kids? You know? It was funny because we're
Speaker 1: gonna return to this and I want CAL talk about
Speaker 1: this long Leaf deal. Robert Abernathew, who I'm friends with,
Speaker 1: he used to be he was the CEO or president
Speaker 1: however they run it of the long Leaf Alliance. He's
Speaker 1: retired Cal who's in there now. But I met people
Speaker 1: with Robert down South Carolina who were showing us, and
Speaker 1: there they were literally showing us like my parents planted
Speaker 1: this for us kids, because the turnaround.
Speaker 2: Oh for a long leaf is no no, the la
Speaker 2: blah yeah.
Speaker 1: And for telephone poles and you plan it. And they
Speaker 1: were talking about that sixty years ago, whatever the hell
Speaker 1: it was, whenever the hell you get a phone pole.
Speaker 1: This woman, this elderly woman, remembered as a kid out
Speaker 1: planting these things. Yeah, and it was sort of like
Speaker 1: they were planning it for her to have money, you
Speaker 1: know well, like, like I said, a very slow but
Speaker 1: predictable turn you know well.
Speaker 2: And that's the thing is that I'd like to find
Speaker 2: out if there were actually because a long so like
Speaker 2: a live lolly pond tree and a slash pond tree,
Speaker 2: they're mature twenty to thirty years old, and then at
Speaker 2: thirty they're almost I mean, I've got thirty year olds
Speaker 2: that are telephone pole stuff right now.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, probably off on the U.
Speaker 4: No no, no.
Speaker 2: But so for a long leaf, which is what are
Speaker 2: traditionally our southern forests were consisted of, it's one hundred
Speaker 2: years before it's a mature tree, like it's a very
Speaker 2: slow growing, so it's not grandkids that's not a sustainable well.
Speaker 2: I mean you think about all the things we use,
Speaker 2: pone trees for cardboard boxes, all the stuff that is
Speaker 2: just constantly going like it's not feasible to plant long
Speaker 2: leaves if you have that tree farm. So, but it
Speaker 2: was traditionally what was there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you get that like uh.
Speaker 2: Don't what they call it savannah, but yeah, so it'd.
Speaker 1: Be very big trees and all that shaded grass underneath,
Speaker 1: and they used to have the quail and all that.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and our our turkeys we were way different.
Speaker 2: And I'm not so sure if our turkeys are if
Speaker 2: it's a because because we've got a turkey problem. I
Speaker 2: don't know what's I don't know what's causing it, but
Speaker 2: declining numbers. And I I thought the other day that maybe,
Speaker 2: I mean, I've listened to a bunch of different stuff
Speaker 2: about it, but I think it might be our I'm
Speaker 2: not sure if it's the actual type of tree like
Speaker 2: live lolly verse long leaf, because I don't think there's
Speaker 2: much nutrition for a turkey in a pine tree. But
Speaker 2: I think our forestry practices, like we used to have
Speaker 2: to keep the lanes maintained and then you would burn
Speaker 2: it so that we could access it, like so we
Speaker 2: could walk through it, and you end up with all
Speaker 2: this great habitat for turkeys. Well, now these forestry machines,
Speaker 2: they'll go anywhere like like the terrain means nothing. And
Speaker 2: so we've stopped burning. We've stopped maintaining these lanes because
Speaker 2: when it's time to cut, you just go in there.
Speaker 2: You cut it no matter what. And when you burn
Speaker 2: these live lollies and slash you, you weaken, you know, slightly,
Speaker 2: but enough, and we get these pond beetles and that'll
Speaker 2: be that. And so a forester guys tell you don't
Speaker 2: burn anything, whereas all the turkey guys are like, oh,
Speaker 2: we want to burn everything.
Speaker 1: But the guys that are just looking at it. For timber,
Speaker 1: well that's a no burning, no burning.
Speaker 2: Uh, you got to go. It's very close to you.
Speaker 2: But tall timbers have you heard of that not? So
Speaker 2: they work with but they're like a kind of fire ecology.
Speaker 2: They work with state federal tons of NGOs, so Quail
Speaker 2: Forever NWTF. They do a ton of work with tall
Speaker 2: timbers and vice versa. But it is they have like
Speaker 2: a giant database probably like for the amount of precipitation,
Speaker 2: you get your soil type, everything on what that, what
Speaker 2: your options would be for prescribed burning, and and what
Speaker 2: was historically there because a lot of what they do
Speaker 2: is they'll take these old historic trees, whether they're like
Speaker 2: pulled out of a swamp, just an old stump that's
Speaker 2: sitting on somebody's land, and they'll go through there and
Speaker 2: they'll find what, uh, the pre heavy European management style
Speaker 2: fire cycle was in those areas, and then they can
Speaker 2: look at the seed bank as well and be like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: and here's all the all the plants that that we're
Speaker 2: here in kicking butt. It's interesting though, Damn economics of
Speaker 2: the farm will always be in the way. Well that's
Speaker 2: that's sort of why. It's like I didn't buy the
Speaker 2: farm to make money on it. I bought it to
Speaker 2: enjoy it, and like I feel a responsibility to to
Speaker 2: to restore it back to the way that it was. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but you know, it's a long game that I won't
Speaker 2: see it right, So which is which is cons It's
Speaker 2: will be fine, And I'm fine, it's fine, guys.
Speaker 4: It is it is.
Speaker 2: But yeah, you want to have it set up to
Speaker 2: where your kids aren't going to like feel the pinch
Speaker 2: right away. And but you know, like using cattle as
Speaker 2: de foresters, oh man, and and doing cool stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Could that supplement the timber, you know, relatively hands off
Speaker 2: certainly what they used to do. There, there's these old
Speaker 2: they call them these lift stations where they they drilled
Speaker 2: down into the Florida aquifer. And I had and one
Speaker 2: was lencol So I have a well, got come out
Speaker 2: and he fixed it, he goes, man, they probably did
Speaker 2: this in the nineteen teens. And then we've got these
Speaker 2: giant these water chestnut trees. They call them kwoaks. He's like,
Speaker 2: I bet what they used to is that they probably
Speaker 2: used to graze their cattle underneath all these big caloak trees,
Speaker 2: and this is where they water them. So a couple
Speaker 2: of different water stations.
Speaker 1: Interest, Now that I had a chance to think about this,
Speaker 1: here's what you ought to do. Put this whole thing
Speaker 1: in some kind of conservation easement. That way your kids.
Speaker 1: If your kids turn out to be lunatics, none they're
Speaker 1: gonna do about It'll be a little hamstring them. Get
Speaker 1: a forester in there and say, let's say I manage
Speaker 1: this for timber. What during my kids.
Speaker 2: Hold your kids seven to five and one.
Speaker 1: Okay, so I got a seven five and one year old.
Speaker 1: Let's say I manage this for timber. And I know
Speaker 1: no one has a crystal ball to understand timber markets
Speaker 1: and futures and all that, but let's just say, reasonably,
Speaker 1: what could they expect to pull off this timber harvest?
Speaker 1: Take that dollar figure, go out and win that much
Speaker 1: playing golf. Put that into some kind of little fund
Speaker 1: for your kids. So now you don't got to worry
Speaker 1: about screwing them out of the timber money. There you go,
Speaker 1: because you just left them the money.
Speaker 2: Game plan the next eighties. Then just like that, you
Speaker 2: play for coffee.
Speaker 1: Then you plant the whole thing, and Longley, this is
Speaker 1: why you came here, right right, everybody's away.
Speaker 2: The reason I came this is the reason that you're
Speaker 2: not going to get a meat eater mug because you're
Speaker 2: getting all this like everybody else gets the mug, you
Speaker 2: get a whole life plan. Yes, right, yeah, fantastic.
Speaker 1: Uh. My good friend Doug Darren, he always won. His
Speaker 1: thing about land management is he's always talks about, you know,
Speaker 1: there's what the farmer gets out of it. What's the hunter.
Speaker 1: Get out of it. He says, what's the land, get
Speaker 1: out of it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that because I just I want it.
Speaker 2: When you look at that old like pine forest savannah,
Speaker 2: look with the with the grass, it's just the most
Speaker 2: beautiful landscape. And I mean, I wish I could snap
Speaker 2: my fingers and make it happen. Yeah tomorrow, But I
Speaker 2: just I feel like we're missing an opportunity. We end
Speaker 2: up with these super dense, thick pine forest that you
Speaker 2: can't walk through. Provides eat cover for the deer, but
Speaker 2: for our for our upland birds, turkeys, they're they're struggling.
Speaker 2: How's your dad at trapping? Pretty good is he?
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're my brother. My brother is the trapper. He's
Speaker 2: a he took over my dad's dentistry practice. But he's
Speaker 2: a very meticulous, very meticulous person, and trapping really really
Speaker 2: kind of lead and lends himself into him being really good.
Speaker 1: He gets after the mid size predators.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the coyotes, he's hard on them, really hard on them.
Speaker 2: Possums we could trap, We could trap raccoons. I have
Speaker 2: a healthy, healthy population of them for the upland birds. Yea,
Speaker 2: there that's what you needed. There. Their brutal and we've
Speaker 2: got hogs. Our hogs I think are almost as bad
Speaker 2: on our turkeys as anything else.
Speaker 1: Do you hunt the hogs? Yes, yeah, you like to
Speaker 1: cook those up?
Speaker 2: We do, We make make sausage. We don't. Uh, we
Speaker 2: don't fool with all of them, but I mean you're
Speaker 2: kind of assess them. Yeah, I mean we we put
Speaker 2: up we put up some good numbers on the pigs.
Speaker 2: And uh, there's a bunch of them. It's a it's
Speaker 2: it's trapping them to the trapping them nighttime by any
Speaker 2: means necessary. It's a constant battle, kind of a shoot
Speaker 2: on site if you're if you're if you're hunting there
Speaker 2: and your deer hunt does not become a pig hunt,
Speaker 2: then it's like like grounds for dis disinvitation. Nice. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: so are you do you remember your card has been
Speaker 2: pulled exactly? Like it's like man, POGs show up at
Speaker 2: whatever we're doing. It's a hog hunt.
Speaker 1: Do you remember? And maybe I'm wrong about how Georgia
Speaker 1: plays into this, but quail is just generally like way down.
Speaker 2: Yeah, quail. The quail population in Georgia is almost non existent.
Speaker 2: You've got some some central Georgia. Guys that have got
Speaker 2: these giant tracts of land that they've managed for, you know,
Speaker 2: released birds essentially, and they've ended up being able to
Speaker 2: cultivate some smaller populations. But I just don't think that
Speaker 2: we possessed enough brooding habitat for it to be sustainable
Speaker 2: long term.
Speaker 1: But do you remember are you old enough to remember
Speaker 1: back to good quail hunt?
Speaker 2: I don't remember good So it was that long ago. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't remember it, and I still haven't heard of anyone.
Speaker 2: You know, in Texas they've still got some the decent
Speaker 2: wild quail, but in Georgia it's got to be several
Speaker 2: couple generations at least.
Speaker 1: So when you're doing your when you're working on your land,
Speaker 1: that's not a that's not that's just kind of a fool's.
Speaker 2: Errand if it comes to fruition, it'll be a result
Speaker 2: of us trying to manage it for turkeys, because it's
Speaker 2: a lot of the same sort of activities. But I
Speaker 2: can't imagine with our coyotes and our birds of prey
Speaker 2: that that a quail has got much of a chance.
Speaker 2: I don't know how they ever existed in Georgia in
Speaker 2: the first place, like there's so many birds of prey
Speaker 2: that I mean, a quail is just not very good
Speaker 2: at staying alive. They're very poor. It's habitat because yeah,
Speaker 2: that change in the habitat regime, right, the I know,
Speaker 2: uh Georgia, it's d n R Georgia DNR.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: They have some really cool programs on on some of
Speaker 2: the state w m as where they have sustainable wild
Speaker 2: quail populations. It'd be like drawing a big game hunt
Speaker 2: where like you put in for a draw to go hunt,
Speaker 2: to go hunt it. Yeah really yeah, and then if
Speaker 2: you get drawn, you get you can bring people with you,
Speaker 2: but you're still held to like the one person limit
Speaker 2: of quail. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't apply for this. I don't even care for
Speaker 1: I want to apply just here there's something to apply for.
Speaker 2: There are these like test cases there, and then there's
Speaker 2: a bunch of private places as well. But there's these
Speaker 2: uh you know, state managed places too where they're like
Speaker 2: this is what you need to have these populations and
Speaker 2: that's that's why they exist. But yeah, it's there's it
Speaker 2: all always comes down to habitat. Yeah, I border, I
Speaker 2: have a wm A neighbors to my north and South
Speaker 2: and our Georgia D and R. They they need they
Speaker 2: need more funding and more help. It's just that's where
Speaker 2: coming overwhelming. It's like they have an overwhelming piece of
Speaker 2: ground and they don't have enough manpower to keep it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, there's the has on that ground. Well.
Speaker 2: So so you know, in Georgia, we've got these great initiative,
Speaker 2: got the long Leaf Initiative where they'll basically come in
Speaker 2: and plant the trees for you, and they did that
Speaker 2: all over this wm A. But the seed bank of
Speaker 2: slash and live loolly is so heavy because that had
Speaker 2: been timbered before that. It just shoots up and it's like,
Speaker 2: well that's that, you know, and then you can It's
Speaker 2: like they try to do too much at once. It's like, okay,
Speaker 2: we're going to take you know, a thousand acres and
Speaker 2: put them in long leaf. It's like, well, the burning
Speaker 2: conditions aren't good enough down here, because like even when
Speaker 2: a long leaf is itty bitty you said it, I
Speaker 2: mean they need fire to force them like into tree form.
Speaker 2: And so you can burn all that stuff. But if
Speaker 2: you're not burning it every single year, you know, a
Speaker 2: liveblolly or a slash pine tree will outgrow a long
Speaker 2: leaf ten to one.
Speaker 1: So they put them in the ground. Then they don't
Speaker 1: have the they don't have the funding and manpower to
Speaker 1: expept for the weather.
Speaker 2: You know, if you don't get the if the weather's
Speaker 2: not right and you don't get it, I mean there's
Speaker 2: years to where there are places that you just won't
Speaker 2: be able to burn because it's too wet, the weather's
Speaker 2: not right, don't get a good day whatever. And if
Speaker 2: you don't do that, a live lolly is going to
Speaker 2: be three times the size as a one year old then,
Speaker 2: and a long leaf will be as a three or
Speaker 2: four year old. You see what I'm saying. So if
Speaker 2: they ever don't burn it, then it's pretty much that's that.
Speaker 1: What's what's your kids? Inter? I mean, I know someone
Speaker 1: that you're young to really have much, But what's your
Speaker 1: kids interesting?
Speaker 2: I've taken so I have a daughter, two sons, my
Speaker 2: daughter seven sons five. I've taken them down to the farm.
Speaker 2: They love it right around, they shoot that little twenty two.
Speaker 2: I'm just easing them into I'm easing them into everything.
Speaker 2: As much as I loved fishing with my dad and
Speaker 2: hunting with my dad, I mean there were days where
Speaker 2: we're fishing and it's pouring down rain and we're still
Speaker 2: out there and it's like, Dad, I'm not having fun.
Speaker 2: This is not fun. And it's like it almost took
Speaker 2: a period, Like it almost took a little while. I
Speaker 2: almost had to like rEFInd it as a young adult.
Speaker 2: That makes sense. Yeah, it's almost like we ye a
Speaker 2: little burned out, a little burned out. But I wouldn't
Speaker 2: trade that experience for any you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Like it's hard to it's hard to like, oh, I
Speaker 2: wish my dad hadn't have taken me that day, Like,
Speaker 2: of course not. But I'm just trying to ease my
Speaker 2: kids into it because I want them to like it,
Speaker 2: you know, I want them to really like it. I
Speaker 2: want them to want to go because you're having to
Speaker 2: drag them down there. It's just not it's not fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Can I ask you more financial questions about it?
Speaker 1: If you so? Throughout the uter is a huge job,
Speaker 1: massive variability. What you could earn playing throughout the year
Speaker 1: A good years, bad years?
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: Uh, what do guys do? You know? You have an
Speaker 1: expectation to you whatever you figure out your what your
Speaker 1: house costs, family, everything, and you have an expectation that
Speaker 1: you need to turn that there's some dollar figure that
Speaker 1: you have to hit and everything else is gravy. But
Speaker 1: what are these guys doing that go through that thing
Speaker 1: and then they don't hit it?
Speaker 2: There's a lot of stress.
Speaker 1: I mean, do you then spin out and have to
Speaker 1: go get a job and then that job pulls you
Speaker 1: out of trying again the next.
Speaker 2: Year's happened a lot. There's there's a lot of guys
Speaker 2: that I just I've always operated the work. I don't
Speaker 2: purchase things until until I feel like I did. I
Speaker 2: wouldn't have to finance them, like I just like I've
Speaker 2: got things that I want and those things haven't changed
Speaker 2: in size. Like I always wanted a farm, and like
Speaker 2: just because I was successful doesn't mean that the acres
Speaker 2: of that farm tripled. Right, So I've just never let
Speaker 2: myself get into trouble in that sense. But it's happened
Speaker 2: a lot, m like like as I've gotten more successful,
Speaker 2: like my house size doesn't need to get any bigger.
Speaker 2: Like I've got a twenty four foot boat that I
Speaker 2: bought several years ago, and like it's the biggest boat
Speaker 2: that I can own because it's the biggest one that
Speaker 2: I can take care of. If I had a bigger boat,
Speaker 2: it would be a complete pain in the ass and
Speaker 2: I'd have to almost pay someone to like take care
Speaker 2: of the boat for me. And I don't want to
Speaker 2: have to do stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So do you always have to live where? Do you
Speaker 1: always have to live where you can where you have
Speaker 1: to anticipate that you might just have a shitty year?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean that's that's real.
Speaker 8: There's no base salary with your company, your card, Nope.
Speaker 2: Zero.
Speaker 1: How many Americans make a living on like, not in
Speaker 1: the golf industry, but how many Americans make a living
Speaker 1: playing golf? Probably not like you know, golf pros and coaches.
Speaker 2: Yeah, touring touring pros that make a make it. I
Speaker 2: mean it depends on what probably one hundred and fifty.
Speaker 1: And then auto all. How much out of your annual
Speaker 1: do you do? You do all kinds? You probably do
Speaker 1: endorsement deals and sponsorships and all that. Yeah, is that
Speaker 1: is that more important than the than the No, the wind,
Speaker 1: The winning money is more important.
Speaker 2: It's about as pure of a meritocracy as you get,
Speaker 2: is that right?
Speaker 1: Yep?
Speaker 2: So make more money on the course than you do
Speaker 2: off the course for the most part. But the better
Speaker 2: that you do on the course leads the more off
Speaker 2: the course stuff. So it's all about like how.
Speaker 1: You perform m.
Speaker 2: But you should you should love that?
Speaker 3: Why do you Why do you hate it so much?
Speaker 1: Because I was telling its hard, not good at it.
Speaker 2: I'm not good at fly fishing.
Speaker 1: But I want to hit one of that. I want
Speaker 1: to I want to hit one of the ones that
Speaker 1: has that slow You want to get that slow curve.
Speaker 2: To draw or fade. Learning about draws and faith.
Speaker 3: Wow, and you can lean back and whistle as it goes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I met Brian Gombel one time and
Speaker 1: uh he killed a seagull with a golf ball.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it happens, almost killed a person. Yeah, we're playing
Speaker 2: up in the playoff event. Ridgewood Country Club's got this
Speaker 2: drive a par four, So it's part four. I'm hitting
Speaker 2: driver and I just I slice it over to the
Speaker 2: left and the guy's looking up, one of the guys,
Speaker 2: and the guy looking up hits him right and right
Speaker 2: on the side of the mouth, splits him all the
Speaker 2: way almost up to his temple, and so I walk up. No,
Speaker 2: it didn't blow his teeth. Out, just just split him
Speaker 2: wide open somehow. So I walk up there and the
Speaker 2: first thing I see.
Speaker 1: Is the blood.
Speaker 2: Sure, there's this puddle of blood. And the first thing
Speaker 2: I think of, like, that's dead deer. This guy, this
Speaker 2: guy is such a great story. But yeah, that stuff
Speaker 2: happens a lot. People get hit by golf balls, and
Speaker 2: it is it's a dangerous I would never go. I
Speaker 2: would never take my kids go watch a golf tournament.
Speaker 1: I mean because it's getting paid.
Speaker 2: Oh man, guys get hit all the time. Your caddy
Speaker 2: reaches into his bag and pulls out the latex gloves
Speaker 2: and stitch him up.
Speaker 1: Do you ever do you ever strike relationships where you
Speaker 1: get to where you get the fish on uh? Fish
Speaker 1: and hunting on golf course?
Speaker 7: Man?
Speaker 2: As much as much as you could leverage the ship
Speaker 2: out there, yeah I could. But I have to like
Speaker 2: compartmentalize it because if all I thought about was hunting
Speaker 2: and fishing when I'm working, then I would be horrible
Speaker 2: at what I do. So, like when I'm on the
Speaker 2: road and I've I've gotten invited to go do some
Speaker 2: cool stuff, like oh man, you gotta go fish here,
Speaker 2: you gotta do this, And I'm like I'm here, I
Speaker 2: gotta work, and it's yeah, it sucks, but.
Speaker 1: You don't like run out for an evening, you know, evening.
Speaker 2: We go like when we play in Honolu. We go
Speaker 2: to Honolu every year and there's this huge flat right
Speaker 2: behind where we stay and there's guys that are out
Speaker 2: there and they catch these giant bonefish and you just
Speaker 2: watch him out there all day long walking around like damn,
Speaker 2: it looks fun. Like no, because I would waste I
Speaker 2: would either waste time. I would either waste time where
Speaker 2: I should be in the gym, resting or working practicing
Speaker 2: at that time is budgeted, Like I get there, there's
Speaker 2: a plan, there's things that I have to do. And
Speaker 2: if I made the choice to go out and go fish,
Speaker 2: as much as I would love to like that, Yeah,
Speaker 2: so you're and you see that giant eight pound small
Speaker 2: mouth come out. Yeah, I've got giants right, and you're
Speaker 2: just that's just compartmentalized. That's just white noise off on
Speaker 2: the side. I mean, we will mess with the alligators.
Speaker 3: Does your dad have Does your dad have like a
Speaker 3: travel ride that he brings along tournaments?
Speaker 2: And I have to beg him to come to golf tournaments.
Speaker 2: It's usually just drinking a Budweiser and waiting for it
Speaker 2: to be over.
Speaker 8: He does all.
Speaker 2: No, not at all, not at all.
Speaker 1: That's pretty surprising that you have to be. I guess
Speaker 1: guys like just the discipline man, right, Like.
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean I feel like your success as a
Speaker 2: result of all the little bit of choices that you make,
Speaker 2: and I just try to make the right ones.
Speaker 1: What's your diet, Like, it's pretty good.
Speaker 2: A lot of meat, a lot of vegetables, trying not
Speaker 2: to eat a bunch of stuff. But I have trouble. Well,
Speaker 2: I got high cholesterol, so trying to avoid as much
Speaker 2: red meat as I was eating. But that's that's been
Speaker 2: a tough one. That's been a real tough one. Well,
Speaker 2: not to be biased against where you're from, but how
Speaker 2: are you cooking the red meat?
Speaker 1: Are you sure it's the meat?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, cast iron. Most of the time. I try
Speaker 2: to switch over to the olive oil from butter, but
Speaker 2: that hasn't been there as fun. Yeah No, I mean
Speaker 2: just like medium, rare salt pepper throat on the real,
Speaker 2: nice and easy. Yeah. No, I do only hardly any
Speaker 2: fried food. Yeah, I try to stay away from a
Speaker 2: bunch of ug Yeah. I just try to do the
Speaker 2: best I can get. Still, high cholesterol, hunt run your
Speaker 2: family said, my dad's got it. Yeah, good blood pressure,
Speaker 2: you know, blood pressure of a swimmer, But cholesterol's a nightmare.
Speaker 1: We've gone through your diet.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've gone through your finances, relationships, relationship.
Speaker 2: Happily, happily married, three kids, been married, coming up on
Speaker 2: nine years.
Speaker 1: That's cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, nine years in December.
Speaker 1: And is she golf?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 1: She liked the hunt?
Speaker 2: No, sure doesn't you kids like the golf not. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they've got the like got little bitty clubs, just the
Speaker 2: odds and ends. My five year old he started going
Speaker 2: to the golf course a little bit, but he don't care.
Speaker 2: He just likes it because he gets candy with you
Speaker 2: when he goes home.
Speaker 8: Oh, they're not they're not training like four hours a day, No, sir.
Speaker 1: What's your what's your go to? Uh? What you go to?
Speaker 1: Venison preparations. How do you like to cook it? We do?
Speaker 2: I do the backstraps and Erlin's uh pure style, the
Speaker 2: rest of it.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: We just started making our own burger. Would usually you know,
Speaker 2: take out the really nice parts, keep those, send the
Speaker 2: rest of the processor and get the burger back.
Speaker 1: Oh so you do your own, Yeah, you do your
Speaker 1: own whole muscle stuff. Then just bring it down to
Speaker 1: get it ground right, gotch Yeah.
Speaker 2: So most of the time we don't like so it's
Speaker 2: so warm and humid where we're usually hunting that the
Speaker 2: meat's almost always coming right off the bone. If we
Speaker 2: don't have a walk in we don't know how to
Speaker 2: access to a walk in freezer. So hang them meats
Speaker 2: all the way off the bone, right into a cooler,
Speaker 2: pick out all the good parts that that we don't
Speaker 2: need help with, and then the stuff that, you know,
Speaker 2: the time consuming, the grinding, and because you.
Speaker 1: Got a hustle, usually can't just go hang at your
Speaker 1: garage for ten days.
Speaker 2: No, we just can't like our environment. Just there's just
Speaker 2: no chance, no chance. So I mean, I'm a tender
Speaker 2: loin backstrap guy. And then if I've got time. I'm
Speaker 2: sure that you don't like when people make stuff into jerky,
Speaker 2: But I love making jerky. Yeah, it just seems like
Speaker 2: an anti purest thing to do with a piece of me.
Speaker 1: I love them, man. I was walking around eating my
Speaker 1: own jerky yesterday. To make a ton of jerky there's
Speaker 1: nothing wrong with jerky Clay. Clay Nukeom talks about he
Speaker 1: talks about how he's always getting burger. Shame grinds. Shame, yeah,
Speaker 1: grind because he just grinds the whole deer out. Then
Speaker 1: he has to get burger.
Speaker 2: He's got to make the Big three or the Big
Speaker 2: four taco.
Speaker 1: I get.
Speaker 2: I need, I need heart help. The heart has been
Speaker 2: a tough one. I get. Sometimes the heart comes out
Speaker 2: and it's like the best, like the best, the best piece,
Speaker 2: And the other times I'm like, I don't want to
Speaker 2: hate this.
Speaker 1: How do you cook it?
Speaker 2: I've cooked it the same way every time, just cast
Speaker 2: iron and butter. I mean yeah, it's it's like it's
Speaker 2: more of a heart to heart problem.
Speaker 8: Like the flavor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just like some of them, some of them, and
Speaker 2: then like some it's just like this is like a gamey,
Speaker 2: organy taste, like a bad heart, like bad heart. Just yeah,
Speaker 2: trimming out best I can. You can put it in
Speaker 2: salt water, salt and that'll, you know, de ironize it
Speaker 2: a little bit.
Speaker 1: Okay, I might cook you, dear heart tonight.
Speaker 2: Okay, we're gonna have deer meat, great, damn, sure're gonna
Speaker 2: have deer meat perfect, perfect.
Speaker 8: What everybody wants to know. Fixed blades or mechanicalix.
Speaker 2: Blades, fixed blades.
Speaker 8: I know, I knew.
Speaker 1: We liked each other.
Speaker 2: Yes, some more And this is this is my testimonial
Speaker 2: to the Meat Eater podcasts. Ready. Yeah, so I've been
Speaker 2: on four l hunts, uh, the first three of which
Speaker 2: I hunted with Matthew's boat. And I'm using an arrow
Speaker 2: that is around four hundred grains and I'm using rage
Speaker 2: hypodermics now three for three first three hunts. But it
Speaker 2: was very concerning because my arrow was not getting the penetration.
Speaker 2: It just wasn't. And I'm making shots from inside of
Speaker 2: thirty yards, made really really good shots and some of
Speaker 2: these animals and other than getting lucky a couple of
Speaker 2: times I could have lost. Oh after really good shots,
Speaker 2: I listened to the doctor Ashby, listened to the Archer's paradox,
Speaker 2: and started started from the ground up. Bought the heaviest
Speaker 2: arrows I could find, cut them down, just steal ride
Speaker 2: nod did these east and you know whatever ten grains
Speaker 2: per inch. The heaviest ones I was because I've got
Speaker 2: a short draw. I pulled seventy pounds my draw is
Speaker 2: at twenty seven inches, so I don't have the luxury
Speaker 2: of speed. I've got no speed, So I've got to
Speaker 2: be careful because if I'm shooting a six hundred grain arrow,
Speaker 2: like I can't shoot past thirty yards forty yards, It's
Speaker 2: just it's just not feasible. So I wanted to end
Speaker 2: up with a high four hundred finished grain arrow. So
Speaker 2: I did that, built the arrows, and then did the
Speaker 2: the not the paper paper tune, no knot or no fletchings,
Speaker 2: notck tuned all the arrows, and the last time I went,
Speaker 2: I use a ironwhe one hundred and twenty five. I
Speaker 2: had five hundred grain finished arrows. They were all knock
Speaker 2: tuned and forty yards the longest shot shot I'd made
Speaker 2: on an elk slightly quartering slightly according to total passer,
Speaker 2: like just extra one hundred grains on the arrow, different
Speaker 2: broad heads. I'm a fixed coal period.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this isn't exactly like a lab Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean there's things that it hits and doesn't hit.
Speaker 2: That's true. But I mean I shot an elk at
Speaker 2: twelve yards with inexpandable and my arrow goes in eight.
Speaker 8: Hit the shoulder.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, it was. It was very very dark.
Speaker 2: Hits a little back cording away kind of liver into
Speaker 2: the backside of one long, backside of one long.
Speaker 1: I've been having I've been doing some broad head soul searching. Okay,
Speaker 1: and uh, I find that you are that, not you,
Speaker 1: but us humans. We're heavily influenced by the last arrow
Speaker 1: we shot.
Speaker 2: Okay, lost the deer, lost the deer two years ago,
Speaker 2: which it was either because of the expandable or y'all
Speaker 2: mess much of that third acts of stuff, like with
Speaker 2: the sight you know.
Speaker 7: Well, I mean, I make sure I'm dialed, because you don't.
Speaker 7: And when you sit there in your backyard and your
Speaker 7: shoot parallel to the ground, you never notice it.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I'm straight down on this deer. I feel
Speaker 2: like I make a good shot. It misses, you know,
Speaker 2: the deer's facing left or right. I make a good
Speaker 2: when I feel likes a good deer's right up underneath me,
Speaker 2: and I make a good shot and hits him in
Speaker 2: the top of the shoulder. Air goes in this far.
Speaker 2: With the expandable, I feel like if I'd have hit
Speaker 2: if I'd have made that same shot with a fixed blade,
Speaker 2: he's dead because when you shooting you I.
Speaker 1: Lost deer there to day and I hit it too
Speaker 1: far back, and I kept thinking that if I had
Speaker 1: had something that now it's and I had had something
Speaker 1: that opened up.
Speaker 2: There is no there's no perfect answer. You're probably right,
Speaker 2: I mean, you're probably right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And we weren't in the south.
Speaker 2: It was south Ish, south Ish.
Speaker 1: And man, those deer, when you get up to them,
Speaker 1: you're like, oh man, that's not a very big deal.
Speaker 2: You're not big at all, like what you're.
Speaker 1: Normally thinking of that your aim where you're gonna give
Speaker 1: yourself five inches. They're twitchy too, It's like five inches
Speaker 1: put you like.
Speaker 2: One hundred pounds dough thirty yards. I mean that's a twitchy,
Speaker 2: twitchy animal. And they're already tiny.
Speaker 1: So when do you get what's on your your fall schedule?
Speaker 1: When when do things heat up for you? Guys? You're
Speaker 1: already getting after it probably now, aren't you.
Speaker 2: No, we so I'll start back up. I got one
Speaker 2: more tournament.
Speaker 1: No, I mean you're hunting playing?
Speaker 2: Oh man, I'm we got to redo food plots. We
Speaker 2: did them two weeks ago, worked our hands in the bone,
Speaker 2: had this rain coming. It was dry. Like it's hard
Speaker 2: for me because I have to pick a dry spell
Speaker 2: to plant because I can't get in there otherwise, like
Speaker 2: where where our plots are, Like I don't want to
Speaker 2: run it up too bad. So the rain's coming, it's dry.
Speaker 2: I'm like, let's try it. So we go plant, work
Speaker 2: our hands and bone for two days and then we
Speaker 2: got five inches of rain supposed to get like half
Speaker 2: an inches.
Speaker 1: Getting dry planting weather. Then some nice sprinkles and.
Speaker 2: Right, and then that's it. So it didn't get that.
Speaker 2: I think we got to redo all that.
Speaker 1: But when does hunting heat up for you? Guys?
Speaker 2: Man, I'm just I'm so focused on trying to get
Speaker 2: this place.
Speaker 1: Like ditched, and you're not even worried about it.
Speaker 2: Not really. I mean I sat the other night and
Speaker 2: I was like, damn, this place is still wet. I
Speaker 2: guess like I just want to go buy an excavator
Speaker 2: and start moving water.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got that where you can't relax until you
Speaker 1: get unpacked kind of thing, right, right, wood duck situation.
Speaker 2: We got piles and piles of woods. See that's so funny,
Speaker 2: Like where we are, we're like a wood duck, but
Speaker 2: someone kills the redhead somewhere like oh my right, oh yeah, ducks,
Speaker 2: great wood ducks.
Speaker 1: I see, that was our duck.
Speaker 2: We'll go kill you three wood ducks. Be a waffle
Speaker 2: alis at seven fifteen.
Speaker 1: Man, that was our growing up. That was our duck.
Speaker 1: You know. That was like when in Michigan the opener
Speaker 1: you get some mallards. But you know, we would focus.
Speaker 1: We would hunt ducks heavily for a week, yep. And
Speaker 1: it was wood ducks, you know, right when the season open,
Speaker 1: so like right now basically and then now, man, I
Speaker 1: would just kill to go. Uh my buddy I had
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, my buddy Doug. He gets wood ducks on
Speaker 1: his little pond and it'd be so fun to go
Speaker 1: in here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fine. So there's a there's a a wma
Speaker 2: duck hutting place and Darien. It's called Rhet's Alan, but
Speaker 2: it's a their old rice plant, their old rice fields.
Speaker 2: So it's diked up out of brackish water. So it's
Speaker 2: fresh ish, fresh ear water inside the impowerment. But in
Speaker 2: order to get into the powerment, you've got to take
Speaker 2: you know, we had a little duck boat. It's got
Speaker 2: a winch on the front. You gotta winch up the
Speaker 2: wooden pull over and then basically ride the boat down
Speaker 2: into it. So we're getting out.
Speaker 1: There the movie. I have not put that on your list, Okay, Moat.
Speaker 2: So Wednesdays, Saturdays, and Sundays we're hunting rets every single time.
Speaker 2: So my point is like we would go to this effort,
Speaker 2: leaving it two in the morning, getting there, decoys out
Speaker 2: so that we could shoot like one buffalohead and like
Speaker 2: two ring necks as opposed to like going and sitting
Speaker 2: in any swamp and killing three wood ducks. So we
Speaker 2: would literally move heaven and earth to kill anything but
Speaker 2: a wood duck. That's amazing because they just don't have
Speaker 2: like the culture. We don't have. We don't have the
Speaker 2: we just don't have the variety. But it's also just
Speaker 2: a very tasty duck. I'm just saying, looks good, taste
Speaker 2: goodn't any more? Could you want Brian's place? Like can
Speaker 2: you imagine? Like I feel like my hunting would have
Speaker 2: been vastly slowed down, Like I wouldn't know as much
Speaker 2: as I know if I was, like, well, I can
Speaker 2: go to the spot all three super tasty ducks and
Speaker 2: a pig every day, right, I could. I can almost
Speaker 2: guarantee that, Yeah, late late December.
Speaker 1: That's when I got to come down.
Speaker 2: Three wood ducks and this an invite I can't tell
Speaker 2: man whenever.
Speaker 1: And it's three woodies a.
Speaker 2: Day, three woodies per person, yes.
Speaker 1: And we'd be getting drakes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you could probably pick out drakes. But it's it's
Speaker 2: hard because it's so dark, because you're in a swamp.
Speaker 2: They fly early and then it's done, like there is
Speaker 2: no like mid morning fly and.
Speaker 1: You guys don't do an evening set because the.
Speaker 2: Morning Yeah, pretty much impossible to do it legally.
Speaker 1: Because they're just coming in after dark and you've kind
Speaker 1: of ruined the spot.
Speaker 2: Right well, they they yeah, I mean you you've totally
Speaker 2: blown their roost up when you roost hunt. It's it's
Speaker 2: it's so what.
Speaker 1: Are you going out into in the morning, Like, what
Speaker 1: are they coming into to feed in?
Speaker 2: Just cypress swamps? Really, that'd be gorgeous, dud bad man,
Speaker 2: Come on, you shoot all the wood ducks you want?
Speaker 1: Really?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, we can have that hemmed.
Speaker 1: Up hunters down that neck of woods. Can he come with?
Speaker 1: We would?
Speaker 2: We had we had a we were part of in
Speaker 2: high school. We were part of a cool duck hunting
Speaker 2: place down in Lake City, Florida, where it was a
Speaker 2: phosphate mine, and to mind the phosphate, they were always
Speaker 2: having to move the water around, so they would end
Speaker 2: up with different giant holding places and then flooded timber.
Speaker 2: So we'd go in the flooded timber and try and
Speaker 2: kill the gad wall and the teal, and then we'd
Speaker 2: hunt the big bodies of water for the canvas backs
Speaker 2: and the red heads ring necks. So we had like
Speaker 2: but all that being said, like we could have just
Speaker 2: been killing woo ducks all time. We literally drive like
Speaker 2: three hours. It's a really fun time in Montana right now,
Speaker 2: like pre storm, we're just like starting to get the
Speaker 2: central migrations just kind of starting. And I was did
Speaker 2: a lot of walking and came across all sorts of
Speaker 2: little odd bodies of water this weekend and so fun
Speaker 2: like irrigation ditch sized chunk of water and six ring
Speaker 2: bells flying off of you. Nuts. When we play golf
Speaker 2: and we have a big tournament in Phoenix every year,
Speaker 2: and they've got this giant holding pond in the middle
Speaker 2: and it's just the thousands of ducks Widgeons.
Speaker 1: I mean, I thought you had so much discipline. You
Speaker 1: don't notice that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: I notice it.
Speaker 1: You don't go now I got the clubhouse has to
Speaker 1: make that.
Speaker 2: Troy would be perfect because they all get up and
Speaker 2: leave every night too. It's like you got a late
Speaker 2: practice around or something, or you're finishing up late. They
Speaker 2: all just get up and go. That was always my
Speaker 2: favorite part of duck hunting. It's like like watching them
Speaker 2: all go to roost to the lift off.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So, uh, tell people how to find you on? Uh,
Speaker 1: what's the best way to track your doings?
Speaker 2: I don't, I don't. You do have an Instagram? I
Speaker 2: have an Instagram. I don't care if people find a
Speaker 2: public or not public harm and Brian on Instagram? You
Speaker 2: want to see some Why do you not put? I haven't.
Speaker 2: Can you do that? Can you? You can't change it?
Speaker 2: We'll change it, yeah, but all we'll get this all
Speaker 2: fake out. Yeah, but it's great.
Speaker 1: And then what's the next big what's the next tournament?
Speaker 1: You're except that that's like people should be watching.
Speaker 2: Well, we got I got the R s M Classic
Speaker 2: in my hometown, Saint Simon's, And then I'm gonna go
Speaker 2: play Tiger's event in the Bahamas and then I'll make
Speaker 2: a spearfish after with him, maybe after. He's pretty good
Speaker 2: at it. Yeah, he's pretty good.
Speaker 1: Hat a little bit.
Speaker 2: I showed him some pictures, uh when he used to
Speaker 2: spearfish at bunch. He was like, do you do it
Speaker 2: with a tank? I was like, well, yeah, that time
Speaker 2: of day is well, doesn't count the Yeah, he's a purist.
Speaker 1: Well you will you plug? You plugged this showed him
Speaker 1: and say he should come out and.
Speaker 2: Talk probably watch it. I wouldn't be surprised he watched it.
Speaker 1: Will you asked me, if you'll come on and talk about.
Speaker 2: Spirit, that's gonna be hard to sell. I'll ask him.
Speaker 1: You don't like to do that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you know this now, but Tiger
Speaker 2: was just pretty high de man.
Speaker 1: No, that's why that's why I'm leaning on you.
Speaker 3: That's why we're sending you.
Speaker 1: I don't want to overlean on a you. That's why
Speaker 1: you're supposed to bring it up.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, and kind of wedget in there, like went
Speaker 2: nice nice nice pun there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it looks like it looks like a great day
Speaker 1: for great days. Shoot, you might want to think about
Speaker 1: doing and then you know something like that.
Speaker 2: I think I love the spearfish, love trying to get
Speaker 2: better at it. But there's still like, in order to
Speaker 2: properly talk ship about somebody who spearfishes with a tank,
Speaker 2: you got to do it at least once, right, right.
Speaker 2: I would love to go down there and sit and
Speaker 2: just see, really see what what the difference, find out
Speaker 2: just how bad it is right the house, how siky
Speaker 2: I feel. It's kind of like the greatest thing about
Speaker 2: drinking black coffees that you get to make fun of
Speaker 2: people who put it in their coffee. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't use a horse and cart to get around
Speaker 2: anymore either, but uh, the half and half budget on
Speaker 2: meat does not get messed with.
Speaker 1: All right, So you got those coming up. Look for
Speaker 1: the guy with the pink and white straight.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the one showing out, Look for the look.
Speaker 1: For the guy look for the guy in the drabbish attire.
Speaker 2: Now I just go to work, go to work and
Speaker 2: try to try to beat everybody.
Speaker 1: That's it, all right, man, Well, thanks for coming on, appreciate.
Speaker 2: You for having me. Sure I appreciate it now, Thank you,
Speaker 2: Thank you very much. Sweet ride on.
Speaker 1: A seal gray shine like silver in the sun. Right
Speaker 1: right alone, sweet.
Speaker 6: We done beat this damn course today taking a new right.
Speaker 6: We're done can beat this damn Prsiday. So take a
Speaker 6: new one and ride on
Speaker 7: H