WEBVTT - Michael Rapino 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.400 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Less Sets podcast. 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:15.160 My guest today is the most powerful person in the 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:21.480 music business, the CEO and president of Live Nation, Michael Rappino. Michael, 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:24.200 good to have you on. Thank you, Bob Long. Also 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:27.520 to appreciate the time. Okay, I know you're a voracious 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:29.920 reader of business books. What are you reading right now? 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:35.239 Oh that's a good question. Um, what's my latest? Um, 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:38.319 I'm right now reading, but I'm actually, I won't want 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:41.680 to say i'm reading. I'm I'm pretty deep into podcast now, 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:45.479 so I'm I run every day and I'm podcast for 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:49.120 my game. Um. And I have found this very smart 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:56.680 Canadian guy, of course, uh Shane Parrish the Knowledge Project. 0:00:56.840 --> 0:01:00.760 I find him fascinating. He goes very deep all amongst 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:04.560 a lot of different, uh kind of strains of life. 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:06.840 So he's he's been my latest obsession and I've been 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:10.120 going deep on him on YouTube and podcasts. What do 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:12.480 you learn from him? He's a real thinker. So his 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:15.080 whole his whole business is about The Knowledge Project is 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:17.319 just a lot about how do you make decisions? How 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:19.440 do you think about life? How do you how do 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:23.040 you make the tough uh life decisions, business decisions. So 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:25.200 he he kind of uses that framework amongst all the 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:29.160 different candidates whoever they they're interviewed. So I like his 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:33.840 real methodical thinking. Okay, there's been uh talk recently that 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:38.399 the head of Google the lays decisions to the company's detriment. 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:41.480 How do you make a decision? And how fast or 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:44.640 slow do you make a decision? Uh? No, that's I 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:47.240 think that's a really valid point I have. I've been 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:50.000 all about the speed of decisions since my early days. 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:54.280 I had a young as a young young executive, I 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:56.720 had a great mentor who really drilled in that idea 0:01:56.800 --> 0:02:01.360 that you know, a seventy good fast decision moves the organization. 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:04.840 Um so so so do it. So I'm a pretty 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:08.640 good distiller. So I'm pretty obsessed with making fast, quick 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:13.680 decisions with enough information, enough detail, um to keep things moving. 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:15.960 So fully agree with you. That would be an ongoing 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:19.840 pet peeve of mind. Make make make enough, make the 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:22.680 decisions with enough information to keep things moving. We can 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:28.360 fail fast. What's the worst decision you've made? Probably the 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:31.959 same ones that I made too fast? Um listen, and 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:35.840 Italian blood inside of me gets the emotion going. So 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:38.600 I'm probably like everyone else. The decision I've made that 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:42.200 was probably fueled on emotion and didn't spend a few 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:46.359 extra hours or days um thinking that one through was 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:48.240 probably the ones that have gotten me in trouble. So 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:53.480 anything that was emotion driven and I didn't digest enough, uh, 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:55.760 is the ones that got me in trouble over my days. 0:02:56.760 --> 0:03:00.560 And do you find you should trust your instincts or 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:04.400 after you gather more infer information, do you ultimately make 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:09.920 a different decision which is better? No? I think I 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:11.799 don't live in a lot of regrets, so I I 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:14.880 believe still in the end of the day, the speed 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.880 of the decision process wins out long term. We now 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:22.440 none of us hit you know, a hundred percent. So 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:25.120 if you get seventy percent of those decisions right, but 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:29.680 you're moving everyone forward. I mean my organization, the employees, 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:32.000 you see it. They just want decisions good, bad, or 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:34.600 and different. They want they want direction and decisions and 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:38.400 they want decision makers. And most of the time that's uh, 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:41.760 that's the part that that they look for. So jeez, 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:44.360 over the last eighteen months, it was all about decisions. 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:46.000 I didn't know which ones are going to be right, 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:49.000 and wrong, but they wanted answers and we had to 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:53.600 make decisions, and we got probably seventy percent of them. Right. Okay, 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:56.120 let's talk about the last year and a half. What 0:03:56.160 --> 0:04:00.280 do we know March Live Nation the long with the 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:05.320 stock market in general crashes, it ultimately rebounds, but then 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:08.480 it goes through the roof. But there were no shows. 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:11.160 Why does the stock go through the roof when there 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:15.600 are no shows and no income? Right? The great question? Right? 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:20.040 The uh, the the anticipation, you know, listen, I don't 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:22.120 want to get into all the math, but I think 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:25.080 the real reality was. You know, Live Nation has been 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:27.960 public for fifteen years, so I'm gonna say for ten 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:30.360 of those years we were eight dollars. People didn't quite 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:33.640 understand us. Um, they didn't get the market. And I 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:37.240 had been preaching experience economy for for many years and 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:39.680 how important the live show was and that that we 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:43.479 were this these social creatures and getting gathering for these 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:46.640 two hours were magical. Um. And only the last three 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:49.320 or four years did my start my stock start to 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:52.120 respond as we kind of produced good results in the market. 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:55.400 Went I get this thing called experience economy and live 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.840 the live events very powerful so we were already on 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:02.000 our way up, you know, seventies six or whatever before 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:04.960 the crisis. So we had already got good investor credibility 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:06.880 that we had delivered what we said we're going to deliver, 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:09.960 and they started to really understand this thing called live. 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:13.840 As you know, Bob, the market had talked about recorded 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:17.240 music for fifty years, so we were always kind of 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:19.960 the step child to the story. Only the last five 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:21.880 years I think that the market go. You know, this 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:24.880 thing called live at Live Nation is a is a 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:28.559 real credible big business and it's is important to the artist, 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:31.000 as is the record business. So we had already built 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:35.120 up the credibility. You're right, Mark, the market crashes, everybody 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:39.120 drops and we do no shows. So why does our 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:41.200 stock go up? Well at that point, you know, a 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:44.200 few interesting things happened. You know, when the when the 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:46.880 crisis happened, there were people on the wall street and 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:49.159 elsewhere that we're saying, oh my god, no one's gonna 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:51.880 ever gather again. It's over. We're all going to be, 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:54.640 you know, living in our houses forever. No one's going 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:58.039 to go to a movie, theater or a concert. And yeah, 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:00.680 I always remember it was the May long week end, 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:03.920 and there was the CNN reports from late I think 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:08.000 was the Ozak Lakes where everyone was partying like crazy 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:10.560 and in the middle of this crisis with no vaccine, 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:14.000 that that moment still showed that no matter how dangerous 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:17.159 it was, people still wanted to gather, people wanted to 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:20.640 get out. And so the market started to realize, Wow, 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:23.880 this is really gonna be a pent up demand situation. 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:28.120 When when we can gather, it's clear people want to gather, 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:30.279 They're gonna run back, They're gonna want to come back. 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:34.760 Two shows, um Disneyland, all the good things they do. 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.240 When when when knife normal? So I started, so we 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:41.200 started to see that. The second big news was when 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:45.440 the crisis happened. We modeled out probably fifty to seventy 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:49.440 percent refund rate. We assumed that the world was gonna 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:52.800 want their tickets back, given the economy was about to 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:56.200 take a hit again. Two months later, I got an 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:58.520 earnings call and I tell the Wall Street that we've 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:00.880 only had I think at that point was seven percent 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:04.159 refund rates. This idea that you would sell all these 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:07.080 tickets in the middle of a crisis, and people held 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:10.960 onto that ticket. That was probably the most important fact 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:13.720 that if you were an investor, you went, there must 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:17.040 be something magical about a live show that while everyone 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:21.200 is unemployed, sitting at home, worried about gathering there holding 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:23.880 onto that Billie Eilish ticket, they're not gonna sell it. 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:26.680 So this, this must be a magical moment in their lives. 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:30.440 This must be important to them, Um and um. So 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:33.240 you added that in that started to get investors realized. 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:35.840 You remember Wall Streets buying the future, not the present. 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:38.640 So you don't buy your stock today worried about what 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:41.160 my company is gonna do this month, you buy it there. 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:43.440 So if you're an investor looking at Live Nation, you 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:47.320 probably said, wow, I think this live experience business in 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:51.200 general is going to boom. We're seeing that happen. I 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:55.640 think that the low refund rate definitely delivers that factual story. 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:57.760 And then we did our own work. We went in 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:00.200 and cut a lot of costs, and we were able 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:01.880 to tell Wall Street that when we do come back, 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:04.120 we've had the luxury of having some time off, we're 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:07.440 gonna operate a bit more efficiently. We've We've said to 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:09.320 the Wall Street will will you know We'll still do 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:12.440 the same amount of shows but on a smaller cost basis. 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.200 So if you're an investor and you're already valued me 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:18.880 at seventy five dollars going into the crisis, you sat 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:20.680 here and said, what do I think about the future. 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:23.560 I think they're gonna be leaner than than they were 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:25.720 before they went in, so they'll make a bit more money. 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:28.200 I think there's a boom happening, and this thing called 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:31.600 live must be really really valuable to customers because there's 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:34.240 not even cashing it in in one of the greatest 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:38.040 crisis is in history. I want to bet on this category, 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:40.240 and I want to bet on the market leader, so 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:44.240 that I think of anything. Sometimes the digital reality of 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:47.680 everyone staying home had happened proved to a lot of 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:51.839 investors how important that the social uh concert experience really 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:54.680 is and how endearing it is to the customers. And 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:57.680 we're seeing that playoff. What do you think the value 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:01.240 of Live Nation is? Is her head room? Yeah, I've 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:05.000 always believed that, you know, we're we're this incredible listen. 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:07.040 I believe in Live for a long time. So I've 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:10.000 been saying this, you know, for many many years. Um, 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:12.360 I think recorded has its side of the world. But 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:15.199 I think live is is very very unique. It's if 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:18.440 you think about live music, it's the only unduplicate herble 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:23.280 asset that's really survived this entertainment revolution. Everything else is 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:27.640 pretty much got duplicated and digitized, UM and and and 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:30.720 that's great. But two hours, Bob as you know those 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:34.000 goose bumps you get when you watch the Eagles, um, 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:36.680 you don't get that on an iPad. So we have 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:42.160 this very unique industry that is non duplicatable um in 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:44.600 in a in a world where everything else has become duplicate, 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:48.280 herble and commoditized. I think this category has a long life. 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:50.880 It's been you know, since the Caveman days. We've been 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:54.280 dancing around music. I think my ten year old, my 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:56.560 eight year old can't wait to go to a concert. 0:09:57.000 --> 0:09:59.400 And now they find them differently. They you know, the 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:03.000 YouTube TikTok, all the different ways they're discovering it has changed. 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:06.000 But they still want to go see post Malone um 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:07.920 at a live show. They still want to see it. 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.440 So I believe that the future of live is stronger 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:13.720 than ever two is. You know this from your record days. 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:17.480 Live was really unexploited because it wasn't a global business. 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:21.360 Live followed the record business, so for thirty or forty years, 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:24.679 you only toured where you sold records, which basically meant 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:28.120 you were a US Western Europe business. That's all the 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:31.040 labels cared about in generally for thirty or forty years. 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:36.240 The minute the Internet unlocked, the fan um was everywhere. 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:40.120 So Rihanna has two hundred million followers regardless of where 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:43.360 her record was sold. She's got, you know, thirty million 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:46.520 followers in Brazil, so now we can go to Brazil 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:49.600 and sell out stadiums. We weren't able to be a 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:52.360 global business before because we really could only go tour 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:55.720 where the record label was selling the record, promoting the album, 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:59.880 buying the airplay. Overnight that nineteen year old and Mala 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.960 and Cape Town uh Is discovered the artist on their own, 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:07.199 and now that fan is global. So our business has 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:10.280 been booming because as big as you think Live Nation is, 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:15.040 we're market share on a global basis. Were we got 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:17.760 lots of markets that are on fire and going to 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:20.280 grow over the next ten years that are just finally 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:25.640 getting great venues in South America, South Eastern Europe, Asia, UM, 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:28.839 so it'll be a global business. UM. Lots of growth 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:31.720 globally for the next you know, multiple years, as as 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:35.200 the infrastructure gets built and the artist goes global. So 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:37.240 this industry has got a lot of upside in it. 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:40.520 So who owns Live Nation stock? Can you break it 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:45.040 down us generally? Yeah, it's so it's obviously a public 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:50.040 company traded uh, you know, freely stock. The Liberty Media, 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:54.679 which the Liberty Media was an investor in I a c. 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:59.439 Which was ticket Master, so they owned fifteen percent of Ticketmaster. 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:04.520 When we merged with Ticketmaster, we uh we inherited the 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:08.280 Liberty Media, uh, which is John Malone, Greg Mfei. So 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:10.080 they've been there now the last I don't know eight 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.720 years or so. They've increased their stake and they currently 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:16.840 own thirty of Live Nation and then seventy percent of 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:20.160 Live Nation is freely traded amongst uh, you know, the 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:25.520 public and institutions. Okay Malone and the name of the 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:27.680 company has changed a few times, but he made his 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:31.319 money in the cable business and has had great success. 0:12:31.760 --> 0:12:35.240 His right end person is Greg Maffey, who's chairman of 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:38.120 the Live Nation board. So what does he do or 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:41.120 what input would he might have that would influence the 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:43.640 direction of the company or you're thinking, well, listen, I 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:46.880 don't want to undersell or oversell. You know a board, 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:51.200 Liberty has been incredible shareholder and John Malone and Greg 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:54.720 I give them full credit because they play long um 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:59.000 and UM and they they always let the operator and 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:02.720 the CEE do his job. And John's history has been 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:05.160 clear on that. Whether you've seen the recent days David 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:09.960 zaslof move that John controls Mike Freeze most most of 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:13.200 his history is about backing good CEO s um and 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:16.120 letting them do what they do. So they've been incredible shareholders. 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:18.360 I mean again, when we were eight bucks and ten bucks, 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:22.080 not once would gregor John talk about the stock price. 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:23.679 So we just talked about how we're going to grow 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:27.160 the company. So they've been great, real long term shareholders. 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:29.240 That's the best thing you can help for in any 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:31.960 equity or any debt you have, is that they're playing 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:35.320 long along with you. UM. Given I'm playing long my 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:38.960 entire equity since I started this company fifteen years ago, 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:41.200 and what public has been about my equity, not my 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:44.560 pay So I'm only playing for long term equity, and 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:47.240 you want your shareholders playing for that. So they've been great. 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:50.800 Greg is is that. You know, we've had multiple chairman 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:54.199 now Greg has been the chairman. He's been very supportive UM. 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:57.480 But Liberty does not bother me in any operational part 0:13:57.520 --> 0:13:59.600 at all, and and a board doesn't do that, that's 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:01.920 not their job. We we meet four times a year 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:04.360 and we talked about long term strategy. How are we 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:06.560 going to grow the company. What are the opportunities to 0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:09.480 grow it? What do I need? What does the company need? 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:13.160 What resources? UM to help grow our vision? So we 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:16.600 set the strategy internal. We we show up at board 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:20.360 meetings with our vision, our long term plan, and their 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:22.800 job is to ask the tough questions to make it 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:26.640 a better plan and then ultimately support it. But zero 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:31.880 operation input, only long term resource input. Now, one thing 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:34.240 you know, we live in the era of disinformation and 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:41.400 misinformation is we've discussed previously, Liberty cannot literally take over 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:43.960 all the stock. There's a limit on their percentage. Can 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:48.720 you explain that? Yeah, I mean it's we We ended 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:53.320 up inheriting a shareholder agreement that was the Ticketmaster I 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:56.720 A C to sharehold agreement. So when we when they 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:00.720 merged in with us, we inherited it. Liberty two board 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:06.800 seats and maximum equity ownership UM. And that's that's kind 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:09.080 of where they are at, and we've been thrilled to 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:11.560 have them at that UM. So they can't buy more 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:16.880 stock in theory under the shareholder agreement UM. And that's uh, 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:19.920 you know that's kind of been in place now for 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:23.080 ten plus years and and we'll will exist as long 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:27.000 as as the board and and Liberty think it makes sense. Okay, 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:29.800 need let's just say Live Nation is a public company. 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:33.640 Do you do have quarterly earnings reports? To what? How 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:37.360 much of your time is based on servicing Wall Street? 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:40.840 Obviously you're on the calls, but and you have a CFO, 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:45.640 how much of your time does it take? Doesn't take 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:47.640 much of my time. I got a great team, and 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:49.920 you know, you build a great team around you. You know, 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:52.120 we've been public for fifteen years now, so this is 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:55.760 this is not a new skill to us, if you 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:58.000 want to call it. It's uh, it's baked into our 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:01.280 DNA and corporate staff. So Joe, Joe Burtof is my 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:04.800 president CFO. His team is amazing. They do all the 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:08.280 hard work, all the audit work, all of the financial work, 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:13.920 all the preparation for the reports. I have limited UM, 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.520 you know, input into all of that. In terms of 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:18.680 the governance of it. My job is to set the 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:21.760 vision and deal with the future of the business and 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:23.760 the strategy of the business. So it doesn't take a 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:26.240 lot of my time. It absolutely takes a lot of 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:29.200 their time. And if you worked in their department, they 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:30.920 would tell you that's a that's a lot of work. 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:34.920 But it's a contained corporate group that works with them 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:37.560 to get those reports done and are earning earning is done. 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:40.840 But you know, listen, a G I'm sure is no different. 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:44.160 I'm sure Phil is not letting them off the hook 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:47.080 very easily. I'm sure they're preparing week monthly and J 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:52.560 and others are answering to Denver and preparing um whatever 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:54.200 they've got to prepare in a monthly and a bi 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:58.000 monthly basis to to keep growing their business. So anytime 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:02.520 you get to a certain state big someone is asking 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:05.800 where the where the businesses and looking for ongoing reports. 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:07.680 So I just say that in the sense of I've 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:11.240 never I always have said I don't don't find public 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:15.040 being a negative on my business. I I've always said 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:18.360 I think being public has been a great, great advantage 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:22.040 to my business. For the last fifteen years, UM, because 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.639 it does take you out of the bubble that you 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:27.080 live in in the music business, and it makes you 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:32.640 better because ultimately, when you're dealing with Wall Street or investors, UM, 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:35.720 they don't care that I know, UM, you know, Bano. 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:38.639 What they care about is what's the business all doing? 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.080 What what what's the prospects of the business. How are 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:43.400 you going to grow the business. So it does get 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:46.000 you out of that bubble of music relevance that we 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:48.359 all think we live in. And then you have to 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:50.639 cross that street and talk to adults about what is 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:52.359 your really your business and what's the core of your 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:53.920 business and how are you going to grow your business? 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:57.679 And I think that's made us healthy because we've been 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:00.679 able to keep one ft in the core of what 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:04.760 the business is about, but also step outside of the 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.400 echo chamber of Hollywood and the music business and talk 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:11.159 about our business from a more strategic perspective. UM. And 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:13.280 I think that's made us good. UM. And also you know, 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:15.920 as you you've seen, we gotta wake up four times 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:18.560 a year and and deliver and talk out loud about 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:21.679 what we're gonna do and actually deliver that UM. So 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:25.320 that accountability um, his, I think made us, made us 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:31.120 a much better company. Okay, Now the average punter would say, 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:34.440 you want a company with no debt. I remember when 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:36.719 Irving was still working at Live Nations says, you know, 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:39.680 if you have no debt, you have a lazy balance 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:43.440 sheet and you're right for a takeover. How much debt 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:48.000 does Live Nation have? And what's its philosophy and debt? 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:50.199 For those who really don't understand, can you play that 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:54.040 out a little bit right? Yeah? That was my famous 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:58.600 first earnings call when we went public in two thousand five, 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:01.560 I was and we spun out of clear channel. They 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:04.760 were gonna I remember going to add add four or 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:07.960 fion in debt to us, and I convinced Randall and 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:10.720 Mark May's that we didn't want that debt. I wanted 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:13.120 to start with a fresh, clean slate so we could 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:15.639 build our business. And Randall Mace was still on my 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:18.560 board was supportive. So I'm very proud that I have 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:21.720 no debt. And my first earnings call, an analyst gets 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:24.399 on and says, you have a lazy balance sheet, and 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:26.640 I had no idea what he was talking about. Only 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.000 on on the earnings call would you find out that 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:31.920 no debt was a bad thing. Um So, yes, that's 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:35.399 the famous lazy balance sheet. UM No. So you know 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:37.720 that the prospect of debt is simple. You're you're gonna 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:41.119 grow a company, um and you're gonna ultimately need to 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:44.840 borrow debt to grow your business as you're building your 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:49.080 business um. And you know, depending on what error you're 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:51.520 and what's the cost of debt, and debt historically has 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:55.040 been fairly cheap. So we look at we look at 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:57.880 Live Nation. Most companies look at what is your your 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:01.200 kind of your leverage rate against your profit, your ibada, 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:04.720 and you never want to be, you know, two over leveraged. 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:09.199 We've always been somewhere around three times leverage. So that 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:12.120 would mean whatever my IBADA is, we would have three 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:15.080 times that in debt. That would be considered a very 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:19.399 very safe balance sheet, a smart balance sheet because if 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:23.760 you could borrow to three dollars to help grow your 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:26.840 company and you can get a better return for that 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:30.720 debt than what the cost is, you should do that. UM. 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:32.680 So we've always been on that. We're living right now 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:35.720 even through this crisis, because we had a conservative balance 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:39.199 sheet going in. We're probably leveraged that four times and 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:43.120 at the time we get through twenty two twenty two, 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:45.960 will start putting paying back down our debt and will 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:49.600 live somewhere in the three times leverage debt, which would 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:52.959 be very very conservative. On Wall Street companies you hear 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:55.480 about that get in trouble would be seven eight time 0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:59.240 leverage on their on their ebitda um. But we've always 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:03.159 been very conservad it Evan, we'll stay in that same range. Okay, 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:05.919 let's leave the finance behind for a moment and go 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:10.520 more down to the street and the consumer level. What 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:15.399 we hear is America's open for business. Live shows are returning. 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:19.159 Generally speaking, very few live shows have played of a 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:23.800 major caliber, not small club shows and not socially distant shows. 0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:27.560 So we had the food fighters at MSG. Certainly Vegas 0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:31.480 is open, but as we talk, the Delta variant is 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:36.360 raging now. Of the people who are getting that are 0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:40.959 the unvaccinated. But the first question is when can we 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:45.200 expect or is it still in the balance full playing 0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:50.800 of shows. Well, last weekend was really the start for us. 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:55.040 Our amphitheater season open last last Friday, so that would 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:58.440 have been you know, Jimmy Buffett's Luke Bryant sold out 0:21:58.440 --> 0:22:01.960 Amphitheater shows from Boss then all the way down Nashville, etcetera. 0:22:02.240 --> 0:22:06.720 So that that was our first weekend of full twenty seven. 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:12.080 Amphitheater tours started last weekend, so we're fully kind of 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:16.760 committed now on across the board. Amphitheater season is full open, 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:21.760 full capacity UM and our first big festival is in 0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:25.440 two weeks that is Rolling Loud in Miami, a couple 0:22:25.480 --> 0:22:29.240 hundred thousand people. So as of now we're fully open. 0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:34.159 The UK opens on Monday, and we have eleven large 0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:36.880 festivals happening in the UK in the month of August. 0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:42.280 So aside from all of the Delta UH, recent news 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:45.359 UH seemed to be full, full steam ahead and in 0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:48.240 all states and in the UK. The rest of the 0:22:48.280 --> 0:22:50.679 world looks like it's gonna gonna be a few months 0:22:51.720 --> 0:22:54.560 up until maybe six months behind, depending on where they are. 0:22:54.600 --> 0:22:57.919 But we still still are unscheduled and opening up right 0:22:57.920 --> 0:23:03.320 now across America. Okay, let's just say, if you print 0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:06.920 a disclaimer, let's start from the threshold. Some of these 0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:12.600 acts are printing disclaimers vaccinated people only. Okay, we all 0:23:12.640 --> 0:23:15.000 know that in the honor system there are people who 0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:19.520 slipped through. What is Live Nations feeling about this? And 0:23:19.640 --> 0:23:23.480 where does the liability lie? You have lawyers who say, 0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:27.440 ultimately your disclaimers work where they think they're gonna work, 0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:30.119 or you buy insurance? Is it the act? Is it? 0:23:30.280 --> 0:23:35.880 Live Nation? Amplify that please? I mean it's all it's 0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:38.720 all new territory as you know, Uh, you know what 0:23:38.840 --> 0:23:43.480 I what I like everyone to be vaccinated? Absolutely? Um? 0:23:43.640 --> 0:23:46.560 Is it? Is it? As you know in America, no 0:23:46.800 --> 0:23:51.200 simple system right now from federal to state. Everyone is 0:23:51.240 --> 0:23:55.320 making their own decisions, um and um. And it's you know, 0:23:55.600 --> 0:23:57.800 as you know, it started six months ago where we 0:23:57.800 --> 0:24:00.119 thought everyone was gonna have to vaccine passport. May be 0:24:00.600 --> 0:24:03.640 there're gonna be some minimum requirements to everyone just kind 0:24:03.640 --> 0:24:06.800 of dropped, dropped all requirements and and in a in 0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:10.200 a state to open has opened. So right now we're 0:24:10.280 --> 0:24:13.720 we're in you know, we're following whatever the latest government 0:24:14.160 --> 0:24:17.880 state mandate is. Um. And also as you know, many 0:24:17.920 --> 0:24:19.600 of I work for the artist and many of them 0:24:19.600 --> 0:24:23.080 have some some have different opinions on what they want 0:24:23.160 --> 0:24:27.520 or don't want in terms of vaccine requirements. UM. So 0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:30.760 we've been we're open up now. We don't think that 0:24:31.440 --> 0:24:35.159 the liability is is going to be a factor. Um. 0:24:35.520 --> 0:24:39.000 In the big picture, it's very very you know, everyone's vaccinated, 0:24:39.040 --> 0:24:41.640 everyone has the opportunity to get vaccinated everyone. No one's 0:24:41.680 --> 0:24:44.320 forced to go to a concert. Um. All all of 0:24:44.359 --> 0:24:48.359 those things that happened at that concert or well well disclosed. 0:24:48.400 --> 0:24:51.120 So we don't think right now that there's any not any. 0:24:51.200 --> 0:24:57.320 We don't think there's large liability issues overall. Okay, who 0:24:57.480 --> 0:25:02.160 decides if it's vaccinated? Only show the artist or live 0:25:02.240 --> 0:25:04.880 nation or the building. Pretty much the states right now, 0:25:05.560 --> 0:25:10.000 so as you know, it's Florida, Texas, most states you 0:25:10.040 --> 0:25:16.240 can't demand vaccine requirements. Um. So other than right now 0:25:16.920 --> 0:25:20.840 New York and California, those are the only two states 0:25:20.840 --> 0:25:25.800 who are still some regulations over five thousand seats in 0:25:25.880 --> 0:25:30.000 terms of vaccine. Every other state is pretty much open 0:25:30.119 --> 0:25:34.800 for business, not requiring passports, are not requiring vaccines for 0:25:34.800 --> 0:25:39.240 for large events. So we're following whatever the state regulation 0:25:39.440 --> 0:25:44.600 is is what we've been following. Okay, now talking about 0:25:44.640 --> 0:25:51.960 your SHED shows that played, how was attendance last weekend? 0:25:52.040 --> 0:25:54.960 Was great? We were you know, we really saw after 0:25:55.040 --> 0:25:58.920 July four any of the SHED stuff that wasn't popping 0:25:59.040 --> 0:26:01.680 on the on sale really got a big kick after 0:26:01.760 --> 0:26:05.359 July fourth, and we assume after everyone either saw it 0:26:05.400 --> 0:26:08.400 on TV or felt they were opened up and saw 0:26:08.440 --> 0:26:11.240 the world opening up. That seemed to be kind of 0:26:11.240 --> 0:26:14.480 the next level of validation for customers saying this is real, 0:26:14.600 --> 0:26:18.399 the show is happening, buy a ticket. So last weekend 0:26:18.440 --> 0:26:21.880 we had a record uh kind of weekend, and um, 0:26:21.960 --> 0:26:24.280 we're seeing every day now the raps are doing better 0:26:24.280 --> 0:26:27.040 and better on the amphitheater shows that were some of 0:26:27.080 --> 0:26:29.280 them were stalled, and I think that's a lot of 0:26:29.280 --> 0:26:32.560 confusion in the marketplace and customers weren't sure is it 0:26:32.600 --> 0:26:35.000 going to happen not I have to be vaccinated, don't 0:26:35.440 --> 0:26:38.560 So I think some of that confusion has slowly lifted 0:26:38.560 --> 0:26:41.440 as these shows are actually playing now and people believe 0:26:41.480 --> 0:26:44.639 that there there, we are open for business and what 0:26:44.840 --> 0:26:47.440 is the future of the shed. Certainly when you took 0:26:47.480 --> 0:26:50.120 over and you inherited the buildings, a lot of them, 0:26:50.400 --> 0:26:52.320 a lot of people felt that many of them were 0:26:52.359 --> 0:26:55.320 built on the cheap and they were tired. Where we 0:26:55.400 --> 0:26:59.879 at with this sheds, you know, they continue to be 0:27:00.040 --> 0:27:03.520 an incredible good experience. I mean, they're they're not a 0:27:03.520 --> 0:27:08.320 billion dollar indoor arena like the latest San Francisco arena 0:27:08.359 --> 0:27:11.439 by far. But they are a beautiful place for eighteen 0:27:11.440 --> 0:27:14.639 thousand people to sit outside under the stars and uh 0:27:14.920 --> 0:27:17.919 drink a beer and um smoke a joint if they 0:27:17.960 --> 0:27:20.920 want and watch a show. So we still see the 0:27:21.400 --> 0:27:24.200 vitality of the amphitheater has not waned at all. We've 0:27:24.200 --> 0:27:28.280 had record years coming out of nineteen. Um, so we're 0:27:28.320 --> 0:27:30.840 still you know, we we still believe our fifty amphitheaters 0:27:30.880 --> 0:27:33.320 are real vibrant. We did a lot of work. Really, 0:27:33.320 --> 0:27:35.080 where we had to do the real work, Bob, was 0:27:35.119 --> 0:27:37.600 the programming of them. We had to make sure that 0:27:37.640 --> 0:27:41.359 they weren't just old classic rock. Um. So, I don't know, 0:27:41.440 --> 0:27:44.199 five six years ago we made sure we really you know, 0:27:45.040 --> 0:27:48.119 went after a younger artist, pop artist, hip hop artists, 0:27:48.200 --> 0:27:53.000 make sure we expanded the portfolio and that was successful. 0:27:53.040 --> 0:27:56.520 The business has been strong and eighteen and nineteen were 0:27:56.560 --> 0:27:58.800 record years and we assumed twenty two will be a 0:27:58.800 --> 0:28:02.680 record year. So um, they continue to be a strong 0:28:02.720 --> 0:28:06.680 piece of our business. Um overall, and we're still and 0:28:06.920 --> 0:28:08.600 we're still and we're still opening them. I mean, we 0:28:08.720 --> 0:28:12.440 like developing them. They're they're they're good businesses. Okay, are 0:28:12.480 --> 0:28:20.159 those books nationally or locally? About seventy national local on 0:28:20.200 --> 0:28:24.520 the amphitheaters, and then what about live nation in general? 0:28:24.800 --> 0:28:30.240 When is something book nationally and when is something book locally? Well, 0:28:30.240 --> 0:28:33.760 we have if you do macro numbers, we did about 0:28:33.760 --> 0:28:38.760 thirty thousand shows in forty countries in two thousand nineteen. 0:28:39.600 --> 0:28:43.400 If you just did a national versus local, you would 0:28:43.480 --> 0:28:47.440 have out of those thirty thousand shows, you'd only have 0:28:49.000 --> 0:28:52.960 six or seven thousand toured shows and about twenty five 0:28:53.040 --> 0:28:57.240 thousand local booked. So it is still a local business. Globally, 0:28:57.840 --> 0:29:00.960 you know, the Milan, Italy is the Spain, the Australia's 0:29:01.440 --> 0:29:03.840 there's still the majority of that business is still a 0:29:04.200 --> 0:29:10.000 local book business. The tours we do on the national level, 0:29:10.080 --> 0:29:13.520 we would do, you know, we would only do uh, 0:29:13.600 --> 0:29:18.080 we only do a few global tours a year. We 0:29:18.160 --> 0:29:21.120 do a lot of US tours a year. But it's 0:29:21.160 --> 0:29:24.240 still a local business, a national business, and and then 0:29:24.320 --> 0:29:27.760 last a global business. All moving towards national and global. 0:29:28.160 --> 0:29:30.200 In five years from now and ten years from now 0:29:30.240 --> 0:29:32.520 you and I will talk, those numbers will keep moving 0:29:32.560 --> 0:29:37.280 to central as artists are now especially younger managers look 0:29:37.280 --> 0:29:39.080 at the tour as something that they would want to 0:29:39.120 --> 0:29:43.160 lock in on a national and global basis as a partner. Um. 0:29:43.240 --> 0:29:46.680 So we're seeing a lot of that movement. Okay, tell 0:29:46.720 --> 0:29:49.720 me about the revenue streams. How many revenue streams do 0:29:49.720 --> 0:29:52.320 you have at Live Nation? What's the great line that 0:29:52.320 --> 0:29:55.920 one of the investors used were like a river of nichols. Um, 0:29:56.760 --> 0:29:59.000 you have of a lot, But I mean generally you're 0:29:59.040 --> 0:30:01.600 you know the business model is you we spend six 0:30:01.680 --> 0:30:06.400 billion dollars a year at midnight for those thirty thousand shows. 0:30:06.440 --> 0:30:10.360 Those shows put a hundred million people through our through 0:30:10.360 --> 0:30:15.080 the venues. UM. So once at that course six billion, 0:30:15.200 --> 0:30:18.960 that return is the is the low margin piece. Artists 0:30:18.960 --> 0:30:21.560 are making most of that money um. And then our 0:30:21.640 --> 0:30:23.960 job is to monetize the hundred million people that walk 0:30:24.000 --> 0:30:26.800 through the door. So you have advertising as a big 0:30:26.800 --> 0:30:30.960 business for us. Sponsorship advertising, um, that's a huge, big 0:30:30.960 --> 0:30:34.200 business for us. You have the second biggest is just 0:30:34.240 --> 0:30:37.600 all the incilliary revenue, whether it's the food, the beverage, 0:30:37.640 --> 0:30:42.080 the parking, the rebates when we put shows in um 0:30:42.120 --> 0:30:44.560 in arenas, we've got a rebate system if we put 0:30:44.600 --> 0:30:47.120 so many shows in a year, so putting shows in 0:30:47.160 --> 0:30:50.920 you're getting paid either in your building or someone else's um. 0:30:51.040 --> 0:30:54.320 And and then three would be our service fees at 0:30:54.320 --> 0:30:57.960 Ticketmaster would be our our our our third revenue stream. 0:30:58.120 --> 0:31:00.000 So those are the those are the three big pieces. 0:31:00.600 --> 0:31:03.360 And how do they split up in terms of let's 0:31:03.400 --> 0:31:06.760 call it net in to those three streams, what they conduce, 0:31:08.520 --> 0:31:12.720 they're almost let's you could almost call them thirty three 0:31:12.800 --> 0:31:18.880 percent each in a macro level, they're they're all equally important. Ok, okay, 0:31:18.920 --> 0:31:22.400 just thirty three percent for sponsorship, thirty three percent for 0:31:22.440 --> 0:31:25.840 ticket for the actual show, and the other thirty percent 0:31:25.920 --> 0:31:31.160 we would call ticket Master, Yeah, I ticket Master on 0:31:31.320 --> 0:31:36.320 site and sillerary revenue and thirty three advertising very small, 0:31:36.600 --> 0:31:45.400 very small percent at the door. What was the status 0:31:45.440 --> 0:31:50.400 of sponsorship when you took over fifteen years ago, and 0:31:50.480 --> 0:31:53.440 what is it today? And what does it look like 0:31:53.480 --> 0:31:58.800 and what are the opportunities? It's a great line. You know, 0:31:58.880 --> 0:32:02.280 I looked sponsorship. I mean, listen, I looked at Live 0:32:02.360 --> 0:32:06.160 Nation at the time we were sponsorship was a uh, 0:32:06.240 --> 0:32:09.480 you know, a banner at at an amphitheater. It was 0:32:09.520 --> 0:32:11.000 a it was a you know, I think one of 0:32:11.000 --> 0:32:13.800 the things we did right at Live Nations, we we 0:32:13.840 --> 0:32:15.880 took a lot of things away from the promoter in 0:32:15.880 --> 0:32:18.680 a positive sense. Right, the promoter shouldn't be worried about 0:32:18.720 --> 0:32:23.120 sponsorship and venue management and websites. Here's a pee books 0:32:23.120 --> 0:32:28.160 and market shows. So when we put Russell and built 0:32:28.160 --> 0:32:31.600 a sponsorship division, UM, I think that's that's why far 0:32:31.640 --> 0:32:34.680 been our biggest growth because today you know it is 0:32:34.760 --> 0:32:40.560 servicing CMO CEO relationships. It's a we have an incredible 0:32:40.600 --> 0:32:43.400 ad network that we sell across our platform. We've got 0:32:43.480 --> 0:32:47.600 a measurement system to sell it, to validate the sponsorship 0:32:47.680 --> 0:32:52.920 on site offsite UM. We have incredible on site distribution 0:32:53.000 --> 0:32:57.360 system where you can talk to and target customers and 0:32:57.360 --> 0:33:01.280 and UM and use segmentation to to look use our 0:33:01.360 --> 0:33:05.240 data to really narrow down exactly. So a very professionalized 0:33:05.280 --> 0:33:08.760 business versus banners. I mean, our job is ultimately we're 0:33:08.760 --> 0:33:11.200 trying to sell an audience to a brand. And the 0:33:11.240 --> 0:33:13.200 more you know about the audience and the more you 0:33:13.200 --> 0:33:15.680 can convince them that you can target that audience and 0:33:15.720 --> 0:33:18.400 measure it, the better you're going to do in advertising. 0:33:18.760 --> 0:33:21.200 So we look at our business as a hundred million 0:33:21.800 --> 0:33:25.800 audience it's a huge audience. Advertisers, well, they spend a 0:33:25.800 --> 0:33:29.280 lot of money on TV and digital, that's a different world. 0:33:29.400 --> 0:33:31.520 They're always looking to say, well, how do I touch 0:33:31.640 --> 0:33:37.320 customers directly, whether it's through music, sports, events, UM and 0:33:37.360 --> 0:33:39.400 if we can be the leader by saying listen, were 0:33:39.400 --> 0:33:42.600 not not only want to uh be your partner, but 0:33:42.640 --> 0:33:46.800 we know nineteen to twenty four year old, this demo, 0:33:47.000 --> 0:33:50.720 that knows this UM that has appeals to this target 0:33:50.800 --> 0:33:54.080 and we can reach them on Thursdays at scale, we 0:33:54.120 --> 0:33:56.560 can help you sell Evolvo. I mean, the more targeted 0:33:56.560 --> 0:33:58.680 and the more precise our data is, the better our 0:33:58.760 --> 0:34:01.600 businesses were with the brand. So that would be the 0:34:01.840 --> 0:34:04.160 if you want to simplify it. That's the that's the 0:34:04.200 --> 0:34:06.400 core why we're we we do so well in that 0:34:06.440 --> 0:34:09.279 space is we have a very smart data team, a 0:34:09.360 --> 0:34:13.200 very smart segmentation team, and we're selling the audience, not 0:34:13.360 --> 0:34:17.800 the artist. So we can sell you enough scale to 0:34:17.320 --> 0:34:20.359 UM to advertise on our platform, whether it's on site, 0:34:20.360 --> 0:34:23.560 whether it's through a digital through a email, touch through 0:34:23.560 --> 0:34:26.760 our app, through a through their app, through an event. 0:34:27.280 --> 0:34:28.879 You know, there's a host of ways we can reach 0:34:28.920 --> 0:34:32.560 those hundred million people. For you. But most importantly advertising 0:34:32.680 --> 0:34:34.880 is do you know your customer? Can you tell us 0:34:34.920 --> 0:34:37.640 who your customer is? And can we measure and monitor 0:34:38.080 --> 0:34:41.280 if we're if we're really reaching them with success. Um. 0:34:41.360 --> 0:34:45.520 So that's our ongoing work and and and advancement and 0:34:45.840 --> 0:34:50.080 that in that business. Okay, forty years ago this started 0:34:50.120 --> 0:34:52.719 with the Rolling Stones and jove on what did jo 0:34:52.840 --> 0:34:55.200 Van got? They got their name on the actual ticket. 0:34:56.000 --> 0:34:58.680 Then we had a lot of money coming into sponsorship 0:34:59.200 --> 0:35:03.399 and then all Wa Baddison Avenue pulled back and said, 0:35:03.440 --> 0:35:05.799 we're not sure we're getting value for our money. If 0:35:05.840 --> 0:35:08.680 you have a car, CuPy, you have a deep pocket 0:35:09.360 --> 0:35:13.839 potential sponsor, what is the what are you selling them 0:35:13.840 --> 0:35:20.200 that really works? What works today? You know Jet Generally 0:35:20.200 --> 0:35:22.239 a sponsor is gonna come to us, or brand's gonna 0:35:22.239 --> 0:35:25.160 come to us and say I have a I need 0:35:25.239 --> 0:35:27.160 to reach a target. They know who they want to 0:35:27.160 --> 0:35:29.640 reach obviously, So when a brand comes to us and says, 0:35:29.680 --> 0:35:31.720 you know, we really are having a tough time reaching 0:35:32.280 --> 0:35:35.040 you know, forty to fifty five year old boomers who 0:35:35.080 --> 0:35:38.200 we think want to buy the Audi car, because there, 0:35:38.320 --> 0:35:40.880 you know, this is our target. Can you reach them? 0:35:40.960 --> 0:35:43.279 That's how it would start right. Our job then is 0:35:43.320 --> 0:35:46.440 to say, well, actually, let us show you average customer 0:35:46.480 --> 0:35:48.360 that goes to the Grateful Dead, but you know, we 0:35:48.360 --> 0:35:50.440 can give you a whole bunch of shows. We have 0:35:51.280 --> 0:35:54.719 sixteen point one million forty to fifty five year old 0:35:54.760 --> 0:35:58.080 customers that are showing up at our events in our database. 0:35:58.239 --> 0:36:00.799 We could reach them. We want out. So that's the 0:36:00.800 --> 0:36:02.600 first piece. Convince them that we have a big enough 0:36:02.640 --> 0:36:06.000 audience that they care about that seems relevant to them. 0:36:06.040 --> 0:36:09.040 Now too is then let's develop a program that can 0:36:09.120 --> 0:36:12.000 hit those sixty million customers. That's that's good for you 0:36:12.040 --> 0:36:15.879 in the brand. And that's where whether it's as lame 0:36:15.960 --> 0:36:19.040 is putting the car on site, the simplest idea to 0:36:19.680 --> 0:36:22.160 We're gonna email all of those customers. We're gonna offer 0:36:22.200 --> 0:36:25.280 them every time you come in for a free demo 0:36:25.360 --> 0:36:28.920 at the audi dealer, you're gonna get a first access 0:36:28.960 --> 0:36:31.840 to a concert ticket. You're gonna get a access to 0:36:31.880 --> 0:36:34.400 a show, you're gonna get a free ticket. There's a 0:36:34.480 --> 0:36:37.400 hundred different programs you're gonna create the real magic. And 0:36:37.440 --> 0:36:39.480 what we do is we've got a great team in 0:36:39.480 --> 0:36:43.239 New York Customer under Darren Wolfe, who is creating these 0:36:43.280 --> 0:36:48.480 programs to meet that brand's need. So it's every brand's 0:36:48.600 --> 0:36:52.440 gonna be slightly different. They're all got some idea reaching 0:36:52.520 --> 0:36:56.680 customers in the music space on site, uh, in a 0:36:56.680 --> 0:36:59.680 live environment, and then they want to create some branded 0:36:59.719 --> 0:37:03.160 program ROMP for it, and that's what we're we're best 0:37:03.200 --> 0:37:07.560 at doing for them. Needles just say big Star, certainly superstars. 0:37:08.080 --> 0:37:12.040 They say the tour is sponsored by ex company. Do 0:37:12.160 --> 0:37:15.920 they bring that to you or do you sometimes bring 0:37:15.960 --> 0:37:19.920 that sponsor to them? How does that work? I would 0:37:19.960 --> 0:37:23.040 that would be separate. And you're right where you're referring 0:37:23.080 --> 0:37:28.279 to earlier was every brand manager or CMO probably got 0:37:28.320 --> 0:37:32.240 burnt by doing an artist sponsorship a tour deal, probably 0:37:32.280 --> 0:37:35.840 didn't get the value they wanted because it's hard to 0:37:35.960 --> 0:37:39.759 do a tour deal and one tour um and put 0:37:39.840 --> 0:37:43.160 some signs up in the in the boardwalk and signs 0:37:43.200 --> 0:37:45.440 in the in the in the VIP gallery and do 0:37:45.560 --> 0:37:47.560 some meet and greets and think that's a lot of value. 0:37:47.960 --> 0:37:50.360 That's not, you know, not reaching a lot of customers. 0:37:50.760 --> 0:37:53.360 So you saw brand brand's kind of went two ways. 0:37:53.880 --> 0:37:56.640 The either went really deep with an artist and did 0:37:56.680 --> 0:37:59.680 a real image program where they really got you know, 0:37:59.719 --> 0:38:03.080 a d doesn't Beyonce where they really integrated the artists 0:38:03.120 --> 0:38:06.000 into their brand and um and those are you know, 0:38:06.160 --> 0:38:10.000 very deep relationships and and and let's call those um 0:38:10.040 --> 0:38:12.200 you know those artists direct. We don't have anything to 0:38:12.280 --> 0:38:14.880 do with those. The the the artist and the brand 0:38:14.960 --> 0:38:17.520 come together and a bigger and a bigger deal and 0:38:17.880 --> 0:38:21.040 hopefully that works for them. If the brand wants to 0:38:21.080 --> 0:38:23.640 be in the live business, they probably have ended up 0:38:23.640 --> 0:38:27.879 coming to UH to Live Nation or a promoter and said, 0:38:27.920 --> 0:38:30.400 you know what, I don't want one event, I want scale. 0:38:31.120 --> 0:38:33.480 So that's why we did a good job over these 0:38:33.560 --> 0:38:35.800 last few years. If we don't sell the artists tour, 0:38:36.360 --> 0:38:37.879 we sell the fact that we have a hundred million 0:38:37.960 --> 0:38:40.719 people coming to a to our audience where the you know, 0:38:40.800 --> 0:38:43.080 let's call it the NFL. We have a large audience, 0:38:43.120 --> 0:38:46.160 so we can deliver your message multiple times to a 0:38:46.239 --> 0:38:49.520 large audience space. And that's the only way, you know, 0:38:49.600 --> 0:38:52.880 you tend to win. And advertising is large reach with 0:38:53.000 --> 0:38:56.560 good impact and direct messaging. So we end up never 0:38:56.560 --> 0:38:59.360 selling one tour that's probably not going to be efficient. 0:38:59.560 --> 0:39:02.760 We're going to sell you a summer six month program, 0:39:02.760 --> 0:39:05.479 a two month, a five year program. We're gonna sell 0:39:05.520 --> 0:39:08.920 you a lot of customers over time that your program 0:39:09.040 --> 0:39:14.279 can touch and and deliver against. That's where really we've 0:39:14.320 --> 0:39:16.799 turned it from a one off business to a credible 0:39:17.080 --> 0:39:20.480 sales channel that brands say, Okay, I can I can 0:39:20.600 --> 0:39:23.040 use Live Nation. I can put an advertising program together 0:39:23.360 --> 0:39:25.919 and I'm going to reach a large audience base over 0:39:25.960 --> 0:39:29.239 the summer. That's an efficient buy for me. Um and 0:39:29.280 --> 0:39:33.280 I'll add that to my marketing mix. Okay. This suddenly 0:39:33.440 --> 0:39:37.520 drifts into ticketing because certainly for the big acts, they 0:39:37.520 --> 0:39:41.000 have deals with m X or maybe City where people 0:39:41.080 --> 0:39:45.000 can get tickets, card members can get tickets early. Now 0:39:45.040 --> 0:39:47.359 this of course involves Ticketmaster. Let's say it's a Live 0:39:47.440 --> 0:39:52.560 Nation show. How does this all work out? Yeah? I 0:39:52.560 --> 0:39:55.840 think for the last ten years, I think American Express 0:39:56.360 --> 0:39:58.439 God Blessing, they created that program called Front of the Line. 0:39:58.440 --> 0:39:59.920 I give them full credit because it's one of the 0:40:00.000 --> 0:40:03.239 you programs that probably has lived this long. Now. It's 0:40:03.280 --> 0:40:06.960 been replicated by most credit card companies. Um And I 0:40:07.000 --> 0:40:10.319 think every credit card company probably has some relationship with 0:40:10.400 --> 0:40:14.480 some sports team and our promoter. UM And I think 0:40:14.560 --> 0:40:19.160 the access to tickets, it's probably the biggest value a 0:40:19.239 --> 0:40:22.160 customer wants, right, the hardest thing to do is to 0:40:22.200 --> 0:40:24.319 get a great ticket to a show because there's such 0:40:24.360 --> 0:40:28.320 a big demand and limited supply. So pre sales became 0:40:28.360 --> 0:40:32.640 a big um item for brands that we're willing to pay, uh, 0:40:32.840 --> 0:40:37.759 sponts willing to pay promoters, artists venues for access to 0:40:37.800 --> 0:40:42.359 tickets for their fan base in exchange for a sponsorship check. 0:40:42.719 --> 0:40:46.239 So uh, we're we've all participated in it. It's a 0:40:46.280 --> 0:40:49.840 good revenue stream um for US. Live Nation has it 0:40:49.920 --> 0:40:55.560 for some of our shows. Sometimes artists have it directly, promoters, festivals, 0:40:55.600 --> 0:40:59.640 sports teams. So pre sales has been a really defined 0:41:00.640 --> 0:41:03.920 category of sponsorship, if you want to call it um, 0:41:04.160 --> 0:41:07.320 started by American Express and now used by most brands 0:41:07.360 --> 0:41:11.680 as a value to the sponsorship package. Okay, dirty little 0:41:11.680 --> 0:41:15.120 secret of the business is that on the on sale 0:41:15.960 --> 0:41:18.480 it could be a twenty thousand seat arena, and on 0:41:18.520 --> 0:41:22.359 the on sale date fewer than a thousand tickets are 0:41:22.480 --> 0:41:27.600 ultimately available. Then who decides on all the varying levels 0:41:27.600 --> 0:41:31.120 of pre sale? Why does that exist? Why are we 0:41:31.160 --> 0:41:36.200 in this world? Yeah? I wouldn't say that's the case anymore. 0:41:36.280 --> 0:41:39.040 That that models flushed out over the years, you don't 0:41:39.120 --> 0:41:43.640 have any more of these UM's not anymore. But the 0:41:43.760 --> 0:41:47.319 no comp tour is pretty much standard now. If you're 0:41:47.400 --> 0:41:50.960 running a big tour and you're the tour accountant, you 0:41:51.000 --> 0:41:54.600 ain't given record, label, sponsor, you're not giving anyone anything 0:41:54.600 --> 0:41:58.200 for free. UM. So that changed over the last five 0:41:58.320 --> 0:42:01.440 six years, if you want to call it. Most tours 0:42:01.520 --> 0:42:06.640 now are a no cop tour meeting. Unless I'm proving 0:42:06.680 --> 0:42:09.799 to that artist that I'm taking tickets and delivering them 0:42:09.800 --> 0:42:14.399 to a sponsor media property and getting something in return. Uh, 0:42:14.440 --> 0:42:17.160 they're not getting tickets anymore. And if the label needs them, 0:42:17.160 --> 0:42:20.000 the labels buying them. So I would say that that 0:42:20.160 --> 0:42:24.400 isn't really the challenge anymore. Most of the tickets that 0:42:24.440 --> 0:42:27.000 are going to go on sale at ten o'clock, a 0:42:27.280 --> 0:42:30.920 very small you know what would be a percent small 0:42:31.000 --> 0:42:36.520 percent is held for UM for anything other than now, 0:42:36.920 --> 0:42:39.600 if there's a sponsor involved, maybe they've done a big 0:42:39.600 --> 0:42:43.440 sponsorship deal. Maybe there's a thousand tickets, two thousand tickets, 0:42:43.440 --> 0:42:47.960 ten but there wouldn't be. There would be most most shows, 0:42:48.080 --> 0:42:52.960 most tickets, large majority are going to be available on 0:42:52.960 --> 0:42:57.359 on pre sale slash on sale, Okay, let me, Yeah, 0:42:57.480 --> 0:43:00.200 you entered the point. I was actually more interest did 0:43:00.280 --> 0:43:02.279 less than the no comp I'm glad you covered that. 0:43:02.880 --> 0:43:06.560 But with many acts, there are different levels of pre sale, 0:43:06.880 --> 0:43:09.799 such when the general public gets a bite, most of 0:43:09.800 --> 0:43:12.000 the tickets have already been sold. I'm not talking about 0:43:12.000 --> 0:43:16.600 any neferious activity. But there's the credit card, there's the 0:43:16.719 --> 0:43:20.000 fian club. How does that come about in what's the 0:43:20.080 --> 0:43:25.319 status of that today? But again, let's not use one 0:43:25.320 --> 0:43:27.840 brush to paint the business. Right, there's you know this, 0:43:28.000 --> 0:43:30.759 this business always gets talked about at the time. There's 0:43:30.800 --> 0:43:34.200 there's ten artists that can make the rules different. Then 0:43:34.200 --> 0:43:37.759 there's the rest of us. Right, So most shows, you know, 0:43:37.840 --> 0:43:42.520 I look at my pre sales on most tours. You know, 0:43:42.560 --> 0:43:45.920 there's a very small amount of states that a pre 0:43:46.000 --> 0:43:48.439 sale will go real clean and sell four or five 0:43:48.440 --> 0:43:51.200 thousand tickets on a pre sale before the on sell 0:43:51.239 --> 0:43:54.160 on the Saturday. You know that's that's that's the one 0:43:54.280 --> 0:43:57.920 percent rule most of the time a pre sale. If 0:43:57.920 --> 0:43:59.680 you do a pre sale and you do a thousand 0:43:59.760 --> 0:44:03.160 tick kits are two thousand tickets, you're happy, um, and 0:44:03.200 --> 0:44:06.440 you'll you're you'll gladly exchange some of that direct marketing 0:44:06.480 --> 0:44:09.240 that that brand used to help you sell some tickets. 0:44:09.400 --> 0:44:11.839 I mean, Bob, you know this. Most shows don't sell out. 0:44:11.960 --> 0:44:15.640 Nine shows don't sell out. So most of the time 0:44:15.680 --> 0:44:18.440 our challenge isn't that we sold out and don't have tickets. 0:44:18.800 --> 0:44:21.560 Most of the time is is it's not sold. We 0:44:21.560 --> 0:44:23.839 don't have a ton of marketing and concert promotion as 0:44:23.880 --> 0:44:26.040 you know. This is you know, in a big world 0:44:26.120 --> 0:44:29.520 of all the marketing messages out there. Um, we have 0:44:29.520 --> 0:44:33.239 a very small marketing budget per show, per tour in 0:44:33.320 --> 0:44:36.759 retrospect to the amount of noise in the marketplace. So 0:44:37.080 --> 0:44:40.400 we're always going to find and look for any trick 0:44:41.040 --> 0:44:45.200 sponsor pre sale media. Well well look, well we're probably 0:44:45.200 --> 0:44:47.200 going to resort to many tricks to try to get 0:44:47.200 --> 0:44:49.080 a little bit of news or a little bit of 0:44:49.120 --> 0:44:53.359 noise around a on sale or pre sale. Um, just 0:44:53.440 --> 0:44:56.319 because it's it's it's so tough to break clutter on 0:44:56.600 --> 0:44:59.120 you know, when you're forget if you're you know Taylor Swifter, 0:44:59.719 --> 0:45:03.000 you know, the Beyonces of the world, the rest of 0:45:03.040 --> 0:45:05.680 the businesses. God, I'm going on sale on Saturday, is 0:45:05.960 --> 0:45:09.560 seven others going on sale. I got a thirty thousand 0:45:09.600 --> 0:45:12.959 dollar budget per city. Um, I got forty thousand spend 0:45:13.000 --> 0:45:16.160 in Los Angeles, which buys you, you know what, nothing. 0:45:16.400 --> 0:45:19.000 So you're trying to break a little clutter on a 0:45:19.000 --> 0:45:22.120 Saturday morning. So you'll take that pre sale when you 0:45:22.239 --> 0:45:24.560 when when a commerce or a credit cards going to 0:45:24.640 --> 0:45:28.640 talk direct to their probably targeted fan that wants to 0:45:28.680 --> 0:45:33.840 buy a ticket. Um, So I would say to you Macro, 0:45:34.080 --> 0:45:37.960 I don't believe pre sales are the problem with the customer. Um. 0:45:38.000 --> 0:45:39.759 You know, we can get into scalpers at some point, 0:45:39.760 --> 0:45:41.919 but the real problem on a Saturday at ten isn't 0:45:41.920 --> 0:45:44.880 that the tickets are sold two pre sales. The problem 0:45:44.920 --> 0:45:47.680 at ten o'clock is the tickets are sold because the 0:45:47.719 --> 0:45:52.160 secondary markets very vibrant. Okay, what actually works instead of 0:45:52.160 --> 0:45:58.359 in terms of promoting a show, I mean print, TV, Facebook, online. Yeah, 0:45:58.400 --> 0:46:06.120 it's been um to to changes. Ultimately, the none of 0:46:06.160 --> 0:46:10.440 the mainline advertising tends to work anymore. You know, there's 0:46:10.480 --> 0:46:12.759 it's a direct business now. So the best way to 0:46:12.760 --> 0:46:15.799 sell a ticket is to use the artist socials they have. 0:46:16.040 --> 0:46:18.160 They are direct to consumer brands now, as you know. 0:46:18.640 --> 0:46:21.080 So you want to find a fan, go on their 0:46:21.080 --> 0:46:25.080 Instagram and they probably got twenty million followers or however 0:46:25.120 --> 0:46:27.200 many some of them have a hundred millions. So you're 0:46:27.200 --> 0:46:29.719 gonna sell a fan a ticket, probably start with their 0:46:29.719 --> 0:46:33.480 own their their brands, their social networks. Uh So if 0:46:33.520 --> 0:46:38.560 you go and look at our database, Live Nation's database 0:46:38.600 --> 0:46:42.680 of ticket buyers, and the and the artist database, those 0:46:42.680 --> 0:46:45.719 are probably your two best places you're gonna start. If 0:46:45.760 --> 0:46:50.040 I advertise against that those two databases, you're probably going 0:46:50.080 --> 0:46:53.800 to find out most of your customers are there. Uh. Second, 0:46:53.800 --> 0:46:57.840 then you're right, we do spend a lot on Facebook, Instagram. 0:46:58.040 --> 0:47:00.400 Uh those those are those are the best kind of 0:47:00.440 --> 0:47:04.799 response tools for an event. Um. So that that's kind 0:47:04.800 --> 0:47:08.359 of the the two places to spend digital online and 0:47:08.560 --> 0:47:13.240 start with the digital online on the artist's main network, 0:47:13.280 --> 0:47:17.040 and then anyone else's databased like Live Nations or probably 0:47:17.080 --> 0:47:19.560 a E G. S or American suppress whoever has a 0:47:19.640 --> 0:47:24.239 large customer database of ticket purchased purchasers um that are 0:47:24.320 --> 0:47:28.279 like minded or pass buyers. So all online, all digital now, 0:47:28.719 --> 0:47:32.360 all anything radio print, TV we do is probably just vanity. 0:47:32.800 --> 0:47:35.719 It's not probably going to convert. It's too wide. We 0:47:35.760 --> 0:47:38.160 can go targeted now and reach you know, you only 0:47:38.160 --> 0:47:41.959 have to find thirteen or fourteen thousand fans in Los 0:47:41.960 --> 0:47:44.719 Angeles to fill a Staples Center. So you don't need 0:47:44.760 --> 0:47:48.200 a billboard on sunset when you're trying to find thirteen 0:47:48.239 --> 0:47:53.040 thousand people and a ten million population. You don't actually 0:47:53.080 --> 0:47:55.680 want to shoot a shotgun. You wanna you want to. 0:47:55.719 --> 0:47:57.360 You want to be very targeted. You want to find 0:47:57.600 --> 0:48:00.520 those fans that went before, fans look like they want 0:48:00.520 --> 0:48:05.040 to go um or existing fans. So more digital we span, 0:48:05.160 --> 0:48:08.600 the more target and we spend, the more efficient it is. Okay, 0:48:08.640 --> 0:48:11.280 you mentioned the scalpers, you mentioned the on sale time, 0:48:11.320 --> 0:48:15.160 the bots, etcetera. Hey, what is the status of that? 0:48:15.680 --> 0:48:19.520 And be will they pretty much buy anything or only 0:48:19.560 --> 0:48:22.960 the hot tours? Uh? Well, let me let me just 0:48:23.040 --> 0:48:24.840 after one. Let me just say one thing before we 0:48:24.920 --> 0:48:27.160 jump to it. You know, one of the things we 0:48:27.200 --> 0:48:28.920 see in conscious though, I would say to you is 0:48:29.000 --> 0:48:33.400 I don't think we have an awareness program problem. Most 0:48:33.440 --> 0:48:37.279 of the time the artist, uh that And as much 0:48:37.320 --> 0:48:40.640 as people think that's an awareness problem, you only go 0:48:40.719 --> 0:48:42.640 to one or two shows a year. I've said this before. 0:48:42.640 --> 0:48:44.759 I'm gonna forget you know, Yes, if you're nineteen to 0:48:44.800 --> 0:48:46.640 twenty four, you're gonna go to six or seven. But 0:48:47.239 --> 0:48:49.680 generally this is not a This isn't like you're in 0:48:49.760 --> 0:48:52.440 the supermarket and you see something at the check oudisle 0:48:52.480 --> 0:48:55.200 and you buy it. Going to show is a committed game. 0:48:55.560 --> 0:48:57.600 You have to find four other people that even like 0:48:57.719 --> 0:49:00.480 the band. You've got to commit in ahead, got to 0:49:00.520 --> 0:49:03.520 find a babysitter, you gotta go. Let's it's a many 0:49:03.600 --> 0:49:07.359 travel experience. So going to show is that we we've 0:49:07.400 --> 0:49:09.560 done our research is about a two week two week 0:49:09.640 --> 0:49:13.200 process before you buy the ticket. So it's a committed game. 0:49:13.280 --> 0:49:15.680 So it's not as if you're you're you know, you 0:49:15.760 --> 0:49:18.720 just found out about it and uh and I decided 0:49:18.719 --> 0:49:21.200 to go. I say that in that most of our 0:49:21.200 --> 0:49:23.520 research will tell you the reason I don't go isn't 0:49:23.560 --> 0:49:26.359 because I didn't know about the show. Most of the time, 0:49:26.360 --> 0:49:29.600 it's probably gonna be about pricing. So I always remind 0:49:29.640 --> 0:49:31.319 my team we don't have an awareness problem. We have 0:49:31.320 --> 0:49:34.240 a pricing problem. So I may know about the show, 0:49:34.280 --> 0:49:36.680 but you know what, do I want to go again? 0:49:36.840 --> 0:49:39.880 I've been twice, I've seen the band. The minute we 0:49:39.960 --> 0:49:43.560 send them a price offer, we see big, big action. 0:49:44.040 --> 0:49:47.680 And that's typical of you know, travel hotels. Any of 0:49:47.719 --> 0:49:51.000 these kind of businesses where you know it's a depreciating asset. 0:49:51.120 --> 0:49:55.120 Generally you can motivate people by price. So you see 0:49:55.160 --> 0:49:58.040 a lot of that happening, or you'll that's best. The 0:49:58.080 --> 0:50:01.360 best way to move a ticket probably is because we 0:50:01.360 --> 0:50:06.120 were overpriced it, um and um, and that's that's usually 0:50:06.160 --> 0:50:08.440 the best way to kind of kick ticket sales versus 0:50:08.719 --> 0:50:13.080 pounding some more advertising on a on an Instagram ad 0:50:13.320 --> 0:50:16.040 um not so. So that's just a side note. Is 0:50:16.120 --> 0:50:18.560 it's not only just do I know about the tour, 0:50:18.680 --> 0:50:21.600 but can I afford to go to the tour this time? 0:50:21.640 --> 0:50:24.399 Maybe you know there's some things are price resistant, but 0:50:24.960 --> 0:50:28.319 um um. Sometimes that that tends to be our best 0:50:28.440 --> 0:50:35.239 lever is promotion. Um so so scalping you you you uh, 0:50:35.520 --> 0:50:38.200 you know it's ironic, right we we are the only 0:50:38.280 --> 0:50:41.520 product in the world it's worth worth more of the 0:50:41.560 --> 0:50:46.360 second it's sold. That's that kind of goes against business sense. Um. 0:50:46.360 --> 0:50:49.560 Maybe sneakers are becoming that now, but generally the way 0:50:49.600 --> 0:50:54.560 business works as you try to match market pricing to supply. Right, 0:50:54.920 --> 0:50:57.000 if you and I owned a company and the and 0:50:57.040 --> 0:50:59.279 we found out that it's sold out every second that 0:50:59.280 --> 0:51:01.160 we put it on see we'd probably say we should 0:51:01.360 --> 0:51:05.080 increase the price UM. And that's how the traditional businesses 0:51:05.080 --> 0:51:09.239 all work. They find that price resistance sweet spot where 0:51:09.280 --> 0:51:12.759 there's enough demand UM to meet the need, but it's 0:51:12.800 --> 0:51:17.319 price properly. So we're in this tough industry where the 0:51:17.440 --> 0:51:21.200 artist is an incredible brand manager, play him long, and 0:51:21.440 --> 0:51:25.280 he smartly doesn't want to just take that one show 0:51:25.360 --> 0:51:28.480 and price it to perfection. He wants to price it 0:51:28.520 --> 0:51:31.120 to what he thinks is affordable and right for the fan, 0:51:31.920 --> 0:51:35.160 UM for the long term. So it does create though, 0:51:35.160 --> 0:51:38.840 a big challenge because anytime you have an eight to 0:51:38.960 --> 0:51:42.960 ten billion dollar industry called secondary UM, it's gonna be 0:51:42.960 --> 0:51:45.680 get it's gonna get very professionalized. It's a real business 0:51:45.880 --> 0:51:49.919 and it's legal in America UM and endorsed, so it's 0:51:49.960 --> 0:51:52.920 not it's not the hideaway business anymore. It's not a 0:51:52.960 --> 0:51:55.360 bad business. It's a real business. It's called you know, 0:51:55.480 --> 0:52:00.239 reselling tickets and it's been legitimized and UM, so it's 0:52:00.239 --> 0:52:04.279 it's professionalized and it's real as the reality. UM. Some 0:52:04.360 --> 0:52:07.319 countries around the world have you know, put caps on 0:52:07.360 --> 0:52:09.040 it and you can only resell a ticket for ten 0:52:09.120 --> 0:52:13.120 percent and fifteen and they've reacted differently, and I kind 0:52:13.120 --> 0:52:15.319 of like some of that thinking. But the real in 0:52:15.360 --> 0:52:20.760 America is the sports business legitimized scalping long before the 0:52:20.880 --> 0:52:25.120 before US meaning the music business, So it's professionalized. The NFL, 0:52:25.239 --> 0:52:29.080 the NBA, the NHL. Every team has its own exchange. 0:52:29.640 --> 0:52:31.600 He saw the Dodgers a couple of years ago did 0:52:31.600 --> 0:52:35.160 an RFP for their secondary tickets, got like seventy six million. 0:52:35.800 --> 0:52:38.480 So the biggest question I always get from artists is 0:52:38.480 --> 0:52:40.799 why are all my tickets on the secondary? Well, the 0:52:40.840 --> 0:52:43.840 reality is that venue you're playing in probably has a 0:52:43.880 --> 0:52:48.319 sports team and probably has a secondary deal. And you know, 0:52:48.640 --> 0:52:51.080 most sports teams don't sell out on a Monday night. 0:52:51.239 --> 0:52:55.080 For every hot hockey team or basketball or baseball. You 0:52:55.160 --> 0:52:57.480 if you owned a team, you probably got some suits 0:52:57.520 --> 0:52:59.560 and a bunch of Tuesday nights not selling out. So 0:53:00.000 --> 0:53:02.799 you've done a secondary deal with somebody, and as part 0:53:02.840 --> 0:53:05.040 of that deal, you've probably given them a suite or 0:53:05.160 --> 0:53:08.360 access to um good seats when the concerts come to 0:53:08.400 --> 0:53:11.959 that venue too. Um so we're already starting every show 0:53:12.080 --> 0:53:15.880 is starting with probably season tickets or some level tickets 0:53:16.320 --> 0:53:20.560 sold or packaged in a sports secondary deal in that venue. 0:53:20.880 --> 0:53:23.520 So you've you've started already with you know, the the 0:53:23.640 --> 0:53:26.480 artist probably has or some of those seats are already 0:53:26.480 --> 0:53:31.040 been been bought up or or purchased UM. And they're 0:53:31.080 --> 0:53:35.279 they're incredible price um price managers. They know how to 0:53:35.320 --> 0:53:38.480 buy a lot of inventory. They lose on some and 0:53:38.520 --> 0:53:40.759 make make on the others, and are very good at 0:53:41.120 --> 0:53:44.160 at figuring out the whole macro version of what to 0:53:44.200 --> 0:53:47.680 buy from Saturday night basketball to baseball to concert seats. 0:53:47.719 --> 0:53:52.040 So very professionalized, very software driven, data driven. A lot 0:53:52.040 --> 0:53:54.760 of these companies. So this is this is a real business. 0:53:54.840 --> 0:53:57.400 And I only say that because you know, sometimes in 0:53:57.440 --> 0:53:59.319 the space we get a lot of a lot of 0:53:59.400 --> 0:54:01.479 a lot of talk about it and and and until 0:54:01.560 --> 0:54:05.920 we recognize it's a real legitimate industry StubHub see geek ve. 0:54:06.320 --> 0:54:10.960 These are professional companies, public companies now UM. The reselling 0:54:10.960 --> 0:54:13.400 of a ticket has been a you know, into unless 0:54:13.440 --> 0:54:15.839 someone wants to wake up and do some legislation or 0:54:16.040 --> 0:54:20.040 or try to do something different. It's a legitimate business UM, 0:54:20.080 --> 0:54:22.719 and it's part of the system. I think I try 0:54:22.760 --> 0:54:24.759 to convince artists every now and then that it's not 0:54:24.800 --> 0:54:27.400 the boogeyman, because it's real and it does live. It 0:54:27.520 --> 0:54:30.520 is existence, so we should think about it now. If 0:54:30.520 --> 0:54:32.360 you want to solve it, the best way to do 0:54:32.480 --> 0:54:35.040 is to price your product differently. But if you don't 0:54:35.040 --> 0:54:38.160 price your product differently, you're probably going to be um 0:54:38.200 --> 0:54:40.800 at some point. There's no way around it. The secondary 0:54:40.800 --> 0:54:45.200 market will exist. Okay, but let's talk about the on 0:54:45.400 --> 0:54:49.000 sale availability. Uh, no one knows. You might know the 0:54:49.040 --> 0:54:53.440 exact numbers of tickets that go to spot you are 0:54:53.520 --> 0:54:56.840 acquired via box and go to scalpers as opposed to 0:54:56.880 --> 0:55:01.400 regular customers. Forget the reselling of that ticket. What percentage 0:55:01.400 --> 0:55:05.719 on a sellout show end up in the hands of 0:55:05.840 --> 0:55:11.760 the secondary market essentially from the on sale date. Well, again, 0:55:11.800 --> 0:55:15.480 I don't want to paint one picture because again you know, 0:55:16.880 --> 0:55:19.200 shows aren't selling out and don't have a hot on sale. 0:55:19.480 --> 0:55:21.640 So I don't want to paint one number and say, oh, 0:55:21.680 --> 0:55:24.560 you know, every concert goes, but you are, you know, 0:55:24.640 --> 0:55:27.960 on the ones that get the press, the the bts 0:55:28.080 --> 0:55:30.360 is of the world, the ones where the where the 0:55:30.400 --> 0:55:32.759 family members trying to buy that ticket for their their 0:55:32.800 --> 0:55:35.960 their their daughter or son. The hot ticket you're gonna, 0:55:36.000 --> 0:55:39.080 you know, we're gonna. I looked at a number, you know, 0:55:39.120 --> 0:55:42.520 we've we've stopped over thirty billion bots over the last while, 0:55:42.640 --> 0:55:47.320 I mean Saturday morning on sale bots trying to steal 0:55:47.360 --> 0:55:51.640 tickets or grab tickets UM is a is the biggest 0:55:51.680 --> 0:55:54.440 challenge in our space. So when you hit a hot 0:55:54.480 --> 0:55:58.200 on sale UM on a marketplace on a Saturday morning, 0:55:58.640 --> 0:56:00.719 you know you're you're gonna get a high percentage of 0:56:00.719 --> 0:56:05.480 those tickets are going to be acquired by bots slash 0:56:05.520 --> 0:56:09.680 scalpers at ten ten between ten and ten oh five, right, 0:56:10.000 --> 0:56:14.320 we're always living that. By ten oh five, somebody's mad 0:56:14.440 --> 0:56:16.799 that they think Ticketmaster must have given tickets to the 0:56:16.840 --> 0:56:20.520 scalper because there's ten pages of bots of us pages 0:56:20.560 --> 0:56:24.280 on Google saying they've got tickets available. But they're they're 0:56:24.280 --> 0:56:26.879 fast and they can eat up ticket inventory very very 0:56:26.880 --> 0:56:30.640 fast with the computerized bots. So it's a big problem 0:56:30.960 --> 0:56:34.920 ten o'clock or on sales in general being being scooped 0:56:35.000 --> 0:56:38.080 up by by bots. Um is a big part of 0:56:38.080 --> 0:56:40.800 the what makes the experience of ten buying a ticket 0:56:41.320 --> 0:56:44.120 uh not great for a fan. They're they're confused on 0:56:44.360 --> 0:56:46.040 why it's sold up in a minute, and why there's 0:56:46.440 --> 0:56:50.480 pages of self helpers with tickets available, and what are 0:56:50.520 --> 0:56:55.160 the strategies at your company to combat that. Well, we're 0:56:55.360 --> 0:56:59.160 you know, as I remind people, Ticketmaster would spend the 0:56:59.200 --> 0:57:01.560 most of any buddy. There's there's were brought the only 0:57:01.600 --> 0:57:04.040 one that's spending any money, right, Yeah, there's no one 0:57:04.080 --> 0:57:06.520 else is waking up trying to stop a secondary buy 0:57:06.600 --> 0:57:10.040 on a ten o'clock Um so, so Ticketmaster has you know, 0:57:10.160 --> 0:57:12.440 huge security department. We're gonna spend tens and tens of 0:57:12.480 --> 0:57:15.640 millions a year on software and bots and trying to 0:57:15.680 --> 0:57:18.320 find bad actors. And is that Bob Luffett's trying to 0:57:18.320 --> 0:57:20.720 buy a ticket or is it an I P? But 0:57:20.800 --> 0:57:22.440 you know this is it's an arms race. These are 0:57:22.440 --> 0:57:26.240 professional businesses. This isn't like, you know, an easy I 0:57:26.360 --> 0:57:29.080 P to trace and stop it. So we do our 0:57:29.080 --> 0:57:32.040 best to try to deliver an on sale that a 0:57:32.080 --> 0:57:34.000 fan has a shot at buying a ticket at the 0:57:34.040 --> 0:57:37.760 regular price. But the reality is, you know, the business, 0:57:37.760 --> 0:57:40.320 that the business. There's no one else out there spending 0:57:40.320 --> 0:57:44.200 a dollar trying to stop a bought at ten o'clock. StubHub, 0:57:44.280 --> 0:57:48.200 seek geek Um, access tickets, the sports. I mean, there's 0:57:48.240 --> 0:57:50.800 no one else spending a dollar trying to stop an 0:57:50.800 --> 0:57:54.200 on sale Um, so we're we are as big as 0:57:54.200 --> 0:57:58.040 Ticketmaster is. It's still in a ten billion dollar arms race. 0:57:58.080 --> 0:58:01.360 It's a tough business to be able to develop any 0:58:01.440 --> 0:58:05.960 any stoppage against ten o'clock on sale at that level, 0:58:06.600 --> 0:58:09.760 when when there's that much money involved. Okay, let's just 0:58:09.800 --> 0:58:13.000 look at the take the long view. As you mentioned earlier. 0:58:13.240 --> 0:58:18.000 I remember forty years ago cable TV, if you wanted 0:58:18.040 --> 0:58:21.120 to get a channel for free, you could go to 0:58:21.200 --> 0:58:24.360 the actual cable. They put these filters on. You remove 0:58:24.440 --> 0:58:28.160 the filter, you got the page channel for free. Then 0:58:28.320 --> 0:58:33.800 they digitized everything. There was no theft. Needless to say, 0:58:34.240 --> 0:58:38.720 you know, we're going to move from hard tickets two 0:58:38.720 --> 0:58:44.080 tickets on the device in this product progress, is there 0:58:44.120 --> 0:58:48.040 a way that's actually hurt the box and hurt the scalpers. 0:58:49.840 --> 0:58:53.240 You know, we're we're digitizing our ticket the last couple 0:58:53.240 --> 0:58:55.720 of years, and you're right, when you move from a 0:58:55.760 --> 0:59:00.360 PDF to a digital ticket, you in theory can could 0:59:00.480 --> 0:59:07.040 imply some control. Um, But in America, UM, you know, 0:59:07.080 --> 0:59:10.000 there's no political will to put any rules in place 0:59:10.040 --> 0:59:15.840 to limit um those those those uh, those those controls. 0:59:16.480 --> 0:59:20.240 So we have a digital ticket, we could in theory 0:59:20.360 --> 0:59:23.560 say that you bought a ticket to the Jimmy Buffett Show, 0:59:23.880 --> 0:59:26.440 you can't resell it. You can only resell it with 0:59:26.480 --> 0:59:31.480 a ten percent uplift. UM. But if we try to 0:59:31.560 --> 0:59:36.200 impose any kind of controls on that, you know, scalpers 0:59:36.200 --> 0:59:38.320 and others are pretty good at lobbyists and getting someone 0:59:38.360 --> 0:59:41.480 cranked up that there's a free marketplace and who owns 0:59:41.520 --> 0:59:43.040 that ticket and I should be able to do whatever 0:59:43.080 --> 0:59:46.640 I want with that ticket and controls by anyone are allowed. 0:59:47.080 --> 0:59:51.840 So we don't see the marketplace. We're looking to try 0:59:51.880 --> 0:59:55.080 to control the sale of the ticket. That's our challenge. 0:59:55.160 --> 0:59:57.560 We we believe that there could be controls. You could 0:59:57.560 --> 1:00:01.120 do it tomorrow, um, but there isn't there. There isn't 1:00:01.240 --> 1:00:05.080 the political appetite both in sports most artists want to 1:00:05.080 --> 1:00:08.640 clean on sale at ten o'clock is a reality. UM. 1:00:08.680 --> 1:00:11.160 So we don't see We don't see it as a 1:00:11.200 --> 1:00:13.480 way to you know, uh, we don't see it as 1:00:14.080 --> 1:00:16.320 something that will come into effect and make a difference. 1:00:16.680 --> 1:00:20.720 We think that the market um StubHub and others have 1:00:20.720 --> 1:00:24.400 have done a good job of convincing everyone in Congress 1:00:24.400 --> 1:00:27.760 and I otherwise that a ticket should be freely traded. 1:00:27.800 --> 1:00:30.840 I mean, you look you got Bill Pascal. Look at 1:00:30.840 --> 1:00:34.560 his boss act. He's he actually wants the irony is 1:00:34.600 --> 1:00:38.040 he's doing. His boss act is about making sure that 1:00:38.080 --> 1:00:42.400 the scalper has free controlled access to every ticket that I, 1:00:42.600 --> 1:00:44.920 Ticketmaster and others when you put a ticket on sales 1:00:44.920 --> 1:00:48.800 should make our platform freely UM available that if you 1:00:48.840 --> 1:00:50.960 buy it on any secondary site, that I can walk 1:00:50.960 --> 1:00:54.040 in the building and have free access and free free 1:00:54.040 --> 1:00:57.400 distribution and control, so that that shows you where the 1:00:57.400 --> 1:01:00.720 where the marketplace is um. So we we believe that 1:01:01.040 --> 1:01:03.760 listening to digital tickets good for Live Nation and ticket 1:01:03.760 --> 1:01:07.439 Master from a from a business perspective, because going back 1:01:07.440 --> 1:01:10.920 to my earlier story about sponsorship, the more I know 1:01:10.920 --> 1:01:13.720 who Bob Luffitz is that walked in the building, that's 1:01:13.720 --> 1:01:15.800 a big advantage to me just from doing a better 1:01:15.880 --> 1:01:18.880 job in my marketing talking to you next time, up 1:01:18.920 --> 1:01:22.160 selling you. So for me, it's just good to turn 1:01:22.240 --> 1:01:25.040 a PDF into a piece of data, and the better 1:01:25.080 --> 1:01:28.000 I can use that data to sell more tickets, up 1:01:28.040 --> 1:01:30.919 sell and have a better relationship with the customer. It's 1:01:30.920 --> 1:01:33.560 good for us turning those hundred million people to walk 1:01:33.600 --> 1:01:37.320 in the door from a PDF into it actual segment 1:01:37.440 --> 1:01:40.800 of digital human file is much better for our business. 1:01:41.000 --> 1:01:44.560 I don't think though, we're going to be successful imposing 1:01:44.720 --> 1:01:48.560 restrictions on the on the business and the distribution of 1:01:48.600 --> 1:01:52.120 that ticket or the transfer ability of that ticket. I 1:01:52.120 --> 1:01:55.200 don't think there's the political will to limit any of it. 1:01:55.880 --> 1:01:58.720 Part of what we got into um with some of 1:01:58.760 --> 1:02:00.960 these centators was just you know, our ticket and is 1:02:00.960 --> 1:02:04.600 it really transferable? And a lot of the them of 1:02:04.640 --> 1:02:07.320 the stuff you you read about was about was were 1:02:07.320 --> 1:02:09.840 we going to limit the distribution of our ticket? Where 1:02:09.840 --> 1:02:12.520 we're gonna make you buy a ticket a ticket Master 1:02:13.320 --> 1:02:15.520 as a digital ticket and the only way you could 1:02:15.520 --> 1:02:19.439 resell it was at the Ticketmaster resale um. And that's 1:02:19.600 --> 1:02:22.160 that was kind of the big basis of a closed 1:02:22.200 --> 1:02:26.880 platform that the scalpers and others had excited some of 1:02:26.920 --> 1:02:30.000 the Congress about. We had never planned on doing that. 1:02:30.080 --> 1:02:33.320 We don't believe in a closed platform that market is 1:02:33.360 --> 1:02:36.280 long sled. We're we're we're I've got an open platform 1:02:36.320 --> 1:02:39.840 to date UM. But that shows you that that's kind 1:02:39.840 --> 1:02:43.560 of the the the the the intent of the lobbyists 1:02:43.600 --> 1:02:46.800 and what their concerns were that that anyone would imply 1:02:46.920 --> 1:02:52.000 any kind of control or rules on the ticket. Prior 1:02:52.080 --> 1:02:54.720 to the shutdown, there was a lot of noise your 1:02:54.760 --> 1:02:58.800 company about the verified m what's the status of that 1:02:58.920 --> 1:03:05.120 now and was it effective? You know? I think we 1:03:06.440 --> 1:03:09.520 I think prior you know. The good news is the 1:03:09.520 --> 1:03:12.600 shutdown gave us a lot of time to rethink what 1:03:12.800 --> 1:03:15.160 is it we want to get done uh in our 1:03:15.200 --> 1:03:19.200 ticketing strategy. Um And I think we. I think we 1:03:19.200 --> 1:03:22.400 were fighting the fight with some band aids that probably 1:03:22.400 --> 1:03:27.120 weren't effective enough overall to make a difference. Um. So, 1:03:27.160 --> 1:03:30.200 I think we've learned that verified fan is another tool 1:03:30.240 --> 1:03:32.800 in the toolbox. Is it a good idea? Yes, it's 1:03:32.800 --> 1:03:34.440 a great idea, Bob that if I'm going to go 1:03:34.480 --> 1:03:37.920 on sale, that I can get verified fans registered in advance, 1:03:38.480 --> 1:03:40.480 so I at least have a shot on the on 1:03:40.600 --> 1:03:43.320 sale of saying Bob Left is registered and now we 1:03:43.360 --> 1:03:45.440 can sell you a ticket on Friday. It's a great 1:03:45.480 --> 1:03:48.280 system to take a little bit of load off the 1:03:48.360 --> 1:03:51.400 on sale and distribute it through the week prior to 1:03:51.960 --> 1:03:54.880 So it's a good tool. Some bands, as you know, 1:03:54.960 --> 1:03:57.200 are very obsessed with I want to do everything I 1:03:57.240 --> 1:04:00.520 can to make sure the fan buys my ticket and 1:04:00.560 --> 1:04:02.960 no one else does and at Ticketmaster, we gotta have 1:04:03.000 --> 1:04:07.360 those tools and um and we'll have them. I would 1:04:07.360 --> 1:04:10.280 just say I think we're probably less obsessed with trying 1:04:10.320 --> 1:04:13.960 to roll out verified fan as we are at rolling 1:04:13.960 --> 1:04:17.280 out digital ticketing, which is more important overall, and that 1:04:17.400 --> 1:04:20.479 with the more we get the ticket digitized, the better 1:04:20.520 --> 1:04:22.760 the experiences for everybody, and the better it is for 1:04:22.800 --> 1:04:32.480 our overall business. Okay, let's talk about pricing. Pricing is 1:04:32.600 --> 1:04:35.000 very different than it used to be used to. If 1:04:35.000 --> 1:04:37.880 you had an expensive just you know, use round numbers. 1:04:38.160 --> 1:04:41.240 If the best seats were two hundred dollars, the seats 1:04:41.240 --> 1:04:44.520 and the rafters were a hundred, what do we know 1:04:45.000 --> 1:04:47.480 the seats and the raffers have. Rafters have gone down 1:04:47.480 --> 1:04:50.320 to fifty in many cases, and the seats up front 1:04:50.320 --> 1:04:53.240 of gone to five hundred with what is conventionally known 1:04:53.280 --> 1:04:56.040 as platinum. So what is the the You know, this 1:04:56.160 --> 1:04:59.200 is always a game other than the stones have their 1:04:59.200 --> 1:05:03.360 own style. Uh, it's always a game of pricing. What 1:05:03.560 --> 1:05:05.960 is you now? And ticket Master and Live Nation are 1:05:05.960 --> 1:05:08.040 the experts because they see this every day. Whereas an 1:05:08.040 --> 1:05:10.800 act only goes on tour maybe once every other year. 1:05:11.600 --> 1:05:16.800 What do you tell acts in terms of pricing these days, Well, 1:05:16.960 --> 1:05:19.080 two things, going back to our first point. You know 1:05:19.080 --> 1:05:24.480 there's still billions of dollars in secondary and business out there, 1:05:24.480 --> 1:05:26.400 so we know we're not pricing the house right, so 1:05:26.440 --> 1:05:29.480 we have opportunity to at least gap to get some 1:05:29.560 --> 1:05:33.480 of that front of the house economics for the artist. 1:05:34.080 --> 1:05:37.440 And again going back to what we said, the shows 1:05:37.560 --> 1:05:40.240 I'm dealing with in life are not selling out, so 1:05:40.440 --> 1:05:42.640 I don't ever have a problem selling the front part 1:05:42.640 --> 1:05:44.640 of the house. I do have a problem selling the 1:05:44.640 --> 1:05:47.160 back part. Go to my other point on why is 1:05:47.200 --> 1:05:51.360 the problem pricing not awareness, So I'm always going to 1:05:51.440 --> 1:05:55.320 convince an artist to redistribute the pricing and how low 1:05:55.400 --> 1:05:57.720 can we get the back end of the house and 1:05:57.800 --> 1:05:59.760 probably subsidize the back end of the house on the 1:05:59.760 --> 1:06:01.920 front up front of the house. So if we can 1:06:01.920 --> 1:06:04.720 get that perfect sell out, we want to make sure 1:06:04.760 --> 1:06:07.800 that we have you know, affordable seats in the back 1:06:07.920 --> 1:06:10.880 last row that's sell out. And if you've got to 1:06:10.920 --> 1:06:13.960 take twenty dollars off the back row ticket, I'd rather 1:06:14.040 --> 1:06:15.640 add it to the front row to still get the 1:06:15.680 --> 1:06:19.680 same gross but but price it properly um with the 1:06:19.720 --> 1:06:23.000 back end. So artists, you know, listen, We're we were 1:06:23.040 --> 1:06:25.720 a business that was very very rudimentary for years. As 1:06:25.760 --> 1:06:28.280 you know, we had three scalings, was you know, a 1:06:28.400 --> 1:06:32.480 hundred seventy nine and forty nine and forty dates were 1:06:32.480 --> 1:06:34.360 the same whether it was a Friday in New York 1:06:34.480 --> 1:06:37.920 or Tuesday in Pittsburgh. So you know, I would say 1:06:38.160 --> 1:06:40.880 in general, we've We've been talking to artists for the 1:06:40.960 --> 1:06:44.240 last five years just about nobody prices their product that 1:06:44.280 --> 1:06:46.960 way anymore. You know, you got a price to the market. 1:06:47.280 --> 1:06:49.640 You know that the aisle seat is worth more than 1:06:49.680 --> 1:06:52.680 the middle seat, Friday night's worth more than Monday night. 1:06:53.280 --> 1:06:55.720 New York is going to be more expensive than Pittsburgh. 1:06:56.000 --> 1:06:58.280 So I would say that we have, you know, worked 1:06:58.320 --> 1:07:00.720 hard on a pricing model over all to say what's 1:07:00.720 --> 1:07:03.880 the best way to price your tour depending on what city, 1:07:03.920 --> 1:07:06.640 what date. Is it three prices or is there five 1:07:06.760 --> 1:07:10.560 or six price points that are better for the house? Um? 1:07:10.640 --> 1:07:13.680 So yeah, I I every year the artists are getting better, 1:07:14.520 --> 1:07:17.520 We're getting better at price in the house to sell 1:07:17.560 --> 1:07:21.360 it out, maximize the gross take a little bit of 1:07:21.360 --> 1:07:24.640 that secondary money off the table that that they weren't 1:07:24.640 --> 1:07:27.760 participating in, but still find that fine line, whether it's 1:07:27.760 --> 1:07:31.320 still accessible enough that it sells through. And that's been 1:07:31.360 --> 1:07:33.520 the kind of the science and art over the last 1:07:33.560 --> 1:07:35.640 five years and a lot of why the grosses have 1:07:35.720 --> 1:07:38.440 continually go up and grossers will go up for the 1:07:38.480 --> 1:07:42.160 next you know, five six years, because we're still dramatically 1:07:42.240 --> 1:07:46.240 under priced across the board. Now, speaking of that, what 1:07:46.360 --> 1:07:49.440 we know is the hardcore fans will pay the most, 1:07:49.920 --> 1:07:52.720 whether it be a platinum ticket or whether it be 1:07:52.760 --> 1:07:56.320 a ticket that's purchased on a secondary market. They'll pay 1:07:56.360 --> 1:07:58.560 four hundred and fifty dollars to sit in the first 1:07:58.560 --> 1:08:03.280 fifteen rows and are thrilled. Okay, yes, some New York 1:08:03.360 --> 1:08:05.880 City Los Angeles shows you have fat cats who just 1:08:05.920 --> 1:08:08.360 want to be there, But generally speaking, that is not 1:08:08.440 --> 1:08:13.080 the case in every market. So these are high demand items. 1:08:13.400 --> 1:08:16.360 Will we ever get to the point where acts will 1:08:16.439 --> 1:08:21.040 realize that maybe it's just a perception from the seventies 1:08:21.479 --> 1:08:24.519 and reality, we should price the tickets at what their 1:08:24.640 --> 1:08:30.200 value truly is. Oh yeah, that that's gonna happen. I 1:08:30.240 --> 1:08:33.320 think you're gonna see the you know, like you said, 1:08:34.439 --> 1:08:36.439 we we do a bad job on pr as an 1:08:36.479 --> 1:08:39.840 industry because it's a very a concert ticket is still 1:08:39.960 --> 1:08:42.919 very affordable overall, if you go look at average ticket prices, 1:08:43.479 --> 1:08:48.160 forget the high ones, just average for sports concerts still affordable. 1:08:48.479 --> 1:08:52.639 And you are right, there is somehow the NBA gets 1:08:52.720 --> 1:08:56.599 gets to write press releases about the hundred thousand dollar 1:08:56.760 --> 1:09:02.200 front row as a positive. Um and this business. If 1:09:02.200 --> 1:09:04.840 Bruce charges more than a hundred and fifty, you know, 1:09:05.000 --> 1:09:07.760 it's it's it's a story. So you're right. I think 1:09:07.760 --> 1:09:11.920 that slowly, the artist of today, the next generation artist 1:09:12.200 --> 1:09:14.639 is going to look at the tour and realize that 1:09:14.720 --> 1:09:18.640 their fans, that they want to sell directly to their fans, 1:09:18.680 --> 1:09:22.320 that some fans will spend more for that experience, and 1:09:22.640 --> 1:09:26.280 they're better off having that experience and taking that dollar 1:09:26.640 --> 1:09:30.599 into their growth than someone else. Um and and and 1:09:30.600 --> 1:09:34.280 and compared to other things, it's still wildly affordable. I mean, 1:09:34.680 --> 1:09:37.880 I took my boys to Disney World. I mean, geez uh, 1:09:37.920 --> 1:09:41.559 that's not a cheap day. Um So most of the 1:09:41.560 --> 1:09:44.920 other things that are this valuable in life. You know, 1:09:44.960 --> 1:09:48.080 you don't go to eighty concerts a year, like sports teams. 1:09:48.080 --> 1:09:50.479 There's you know, that band comes to town maybe what 1:09:50.640 --> 1:09:53.880 once every three years, to Los Angeles. That's a high 1:09:53.960 --> 1:09:56.760 demand product. That's an incredible experience. You can see it 1:09:56.840 --> 1:09:59.720 once every three years. That's gonna be worth a lot 1:10:00.160 --> 1:10:03.040 more than you know, eighty games a year for a 1:10:03.120 --> 1:10:05.920 sports team that you can see every year. So yeah, 1:10:05.960 --> 1:10:10.320 we were still completely underpriced. I think this next generation 1:10:10.320 --> 1:10:12.880 will will come to reconcile that they don't have to 1:10:12.880 --> 1:10:17.360 be ashamed of how spectacular that experience on stages. There's 1:10:17.400 --> 1:10:21.360 spending a fortune these artists on the production. Now you 1:10:21.400 --> 1:10:25.479 mean fifty forty seventy trucks at stadiums. They're putting these 1:10:25.479 --> 1:10:29.120 incredible shows on. So um, I think that pricing will 1:10:29.160 --> 1:10:32.519 start to reflect the demand over time. It's the best 1:10:32.560 --> 1:10:35.880 way to address the market. Let's talk about the Stones 1:10:35.960 --> 1:10:40.360 inflex pricing. That's not your company, that's Concerts West. But 1:10:41.439 --> 1:10:45.040 essentially there's no scalping because they change the price based 1:10:45.040 --> 1:10:47.400 on demand and conventionally you get a ticket day of 1:10:48.280 --> 1:10:52.960 Is that the future? Is that really only for the Stones? Well, 1:10:53.000 --> 1:10:55.800 I listen, I do give. I've always given, you know, 1:10:55.840 --> 1:10:58.200 I think Mixed just a genius business manager. We did this, 1:10:58.760 --> 1:11:02.320 We did the show at the Hollywood Bowl and I 1:11:02.360 --> 1:11:04.720 remember it was I don't know, I'm gonna get the 1:11:04.760 --> 1:11:06.639 exact math wrong, but it might have been a forty 1:11:06.720 --> 1:11:10.040 year anniversary and he had charged six dollars forty years 1:11:10.040 --> 1:11:12.439 ago and it was six d this time. And he said, 1:11:12.479 --> 1:11:16.080 you know, the the sett list hasn't changed, just the price. 1:11:16.439 --> 1:11:19.160 So I think, Uh, he's done a fabulous job from 1:11:19.240 --> 1:11:21.639 day one of being about the business and and uh 1:11:21.680 --> 1:11:23.880 and being that's been accepted as part of his brand. 1:11:23.920 --> 1:11:28.280 So I think the Stones are incredible success story. Um, 1:11:28.320 --> 1:11:30.200 but you're right, it's gonna take more artists like that 1:11:30.200 --> 1:11:33.000 that are gonna say I have a product that should 1:11:33.040 --> 1:11:38.000 be dynamically priced and should match demand. And we're seeing 1:11:38.040 --> 1:11:40.760 that from I would say when you talked to new 1:11:41.360 --> 1:11:45.960 younger managers of today thinking about touring there, they come 1:11:46.000 --> 1:11:48.000 at it in a in a more fresh way that 1:11:48.040 --> 1:11:50.000 way on why why am I not going to charge 1:11:50.080 --> 1:11:53.519 the right price? Why is scuppers? Why wouldn't I price 1:11:53.560 --> 1:11:56.240 a house differently? So I think there's a there'll be 1:11:56.280 --> 1:12:00.479 a new generation of pricing that comes up through through 1:12:00.479 --> 1:12:04.160 the next ten years. Okay, let's switch to the fees. 1:12:04.760 --> 1:12:07.200 You and me both know the inside the history of 1:12:07.240 --> 1:12:10.720 the fees whatever, but the public really can't get it, 1:12:12.280 --> 1:12:19.360 can you explain how Ticketmaster doesn't get the entire fee. Yeah, 1:12:19.720 --> 1:12:23.040 I mean again, the fee was part of the original 1:12:23.680 --> 1:12:29.840 um price UM that Fred Rosen when he started ticket Master. 1:12:30.400 --> 1:12:35.280 You know, to have an exclusive ticketing service in your building. UM. 1:12:35.320 --> 1:12:38.439 You you charged a service fee to execute the business. 1:12:39.000 --> 1:12:41.320 And you know, it started at one or two dollars. 1:12:41.360 --> 1:12:43.720 And Fred would tell you the story. Every year when 1:12:43.720 --> 1:12:46.439 he went to renew that venue, would say, great, just 1:12:46.479 --> 1:12:50.360 add another dollar, add another dollar, and and it got 1:12:50.400 --> 1:12:53.720 at it for many years. UM. And it used to 1:12:53.800 --> 1:12:57.519 be you know, six dollars, seven dollars, eight dollars, and 1:12:57.560 --> 1:13:00.439 it was split probably fifty fifty back in the day 1:13:00.439 --> 1:13:05.240 ticket Master in the venue. UM. And then ultimately venues 1:13:05.320 --> 1:13:08.439 continue to uh to uh kind of gets hooked on 1:13:08.479 --> 1:13:12.280 the drug of the service fee, and ultimately, you know, 1:13:12.400 --> 1:13:16.559 today you look at service fees and venues UM, it 1:13:16.600 --> 1:13:19.360 does becomeing a very important part of P and L 1:13:20.200 --> 1:13:23.920 UM in that venue, and it's the high margin piece 1:13:23.960 --> 1:13:27.360 of the business. As a revenue stream UM that you 1:13:27.360 --> 1:13:29.559 you know, you're you're used to having and part of 1:13:29.560 --> 1:13:33.840 financing your building and your operations. As talent costs or 1:13:34.240 --> 1:13:38.920 in sports for sports business athletes or however, their bills 1:13:38.920 --> 1:13:42.760 have gone up, so it has become a very lucrative 1:13:43.040 --> 1:13:46.360 piece of business for venues. Now, you're right, in a 1:13:46.720 --> 1:13:52.960 typical venue, in a sports venue, a sports ticket, the 1:13:53.000 --> 1:13:56.960 team and the venue are probably getting of the service fee. 1:13:57.439 --> 1:14:00.720 So if it's a thirty forty dollar service be um, 1:14:00.760 --> 1:14:05.320 they're gonna get it. In a concert ticket and a 1:14:05.360 --> 1:14:09.800 typical big arena show, um, ticketmaster's gonna get the same thing. 1:14:09.960 --> 1:14:13.000 We're gonna get two bucks, three bucks out of that 1:14:13.040 --> 1:14:15.439 forty or forty five dollar service fee. The rest would 1:14:15.479 --> 1:14:19.400 go to the venue. UM. So it's you're right. We 1:14:19.520 --> 1:14:23.440 we have a you know, a challenge where the ticketmaster 1:14:23.600 --> 1:14:27.320 takes the punch in the head for the no tickets 1:14:27.320 --> 1:14:30.200 available at ten am and a thirty five dollar service fee, 1:14:30.680 --> 1:14:33.200 two things we really have no control over. One we're 1:14:33.200 --> 1:14:36.519 not making thirty five and two week we can't control 1:14:36.560 --> 1:14:39.439 that the market gets bought up by secondary business because 1:14:39.439 --> 1:14:42.479 of underpriced industry. So you're right, it's a tough it's 1:14:42.479 --> 1:14:46.720 a tough pr hit to handle, um and and um, 1:14:46.760 --> 1:14:49.280 and it's kind of been part of now a historic 1:14:49.360 --> 1:14:53.920 revenue stream that that that seems to be uh here 1:14:53.960 --> 1:14:57.200 to stay as as as venues and sports and music 1:14:57.840 --> 1:15:02.519 costs of risen. So what percentage of ticket Master's ticket 1:15:02.600 --> 1:15:08.040 sales and or revenue are contracts as opposed to sports 1:15:08.040 --> 1:15:14.960 another verticals? Um? What would be the off? You know, 1:15:15.160 --> 1:15:25.719 roughly ticket Master sold about five million tickets last year globally. Um, 1:15:26.040 --> 1:15:32.280 sports would be sports would be of that business from 1:15:32.280 --> 1:15:37.639 a sales perspective. Um. So yeah, that's about the split. 1:15:37.680 --> 1:15:39.559 I mean, I'm gonna we do a ton of season 1:15:39.600 --> 1:15:42.760 tickets involved where we make no fees. Um. So those 1:15:42.800 --> 1:15:45.080 are kind of called no feed, no tickets. But what 1:15:45.280 --> 1:15:47.479 sixty or seventy percent of the business would be sports 1:15:47.479 --> 1:15:50.920 in general? But we make more money on our concert 1:15:50.960 --> 1:15:55.679 on the concert business than the sports business. Um. Because 1:15:55.720 --> 1:15:58.799 obviously Live Nation happens to be a ticket a concert 1:15:58.800 --> 1:16:03.160 provider or concert venue. You where we're uh, we're servicing ourselves, 1:16:04.120 --> 1:16:08.360 okay forgetting making an exclusive deal with the building. Why 1:16:08.360 --> 1:16:15.200 should someone use Ticketmaster as opposed to one of its competitors. Well, 1:16:15.240 --> 1:16:18.800 if you're you know, there's there's there's almost there's two 1:16:18.840 --> 1:16:25.160 businesses and ticketing. Right, there's the non sports venue and 1:16:25.200 --> 1:16:27.679 then there's a sports venue. There's let's call it reserve 1:16:27.760 --> 1:16:32.160 tickets versus single tickets. If you're in the single ticket business, 1:16:32.200 --> 1:16:37.920 event right business, festival business, UM, that's not a hard 1:16:38.000 --> 1:16:41.760 business to solve in terms of software. So they all 1:16:41.760 --> 1:16:43.439 do a great job and we do a good job 1:16:43.439 --> 1:16:46.599 in it. Ticketmaster has done a great job for many 1:16:46.680 --> 1:16:52.839 years in servicing sports teams. Sports teams are incredibly high demand. 1:16:53.520 --> 1:16:57.120 So when you're doing UM, when you're servicing the sports 1:16:57.240 --> 1:17:01.840 NFL team, NBA team, NHL team, you know, we did 1:17:02.000 --> 1:17:05.920 an audit recently. We'll run over two to three hundred 1:17:06.080 --> 1:17:12.360 different programs products for all of those teams, reports, UM, 1:17:12.479 --> 1:17:17.479 transfer ability, season tickets, sports. So that the biggest success 1:17:17.520 --> 1:17:20.280 the ticket Master has had is if you're going to 1:17:20.360 --> 1:17:22.680 be if you're if you're a big sports team and 1:17:22.720 --> 1:17:25.439 you have a season ticket based in a single taste base, 1:17:25.960 --> 1:17:29.400 you need you need software to service all of that. UH. 1:17:29.479 --> 1:17:33.000 Ticket Master has two great platforms, Arctics and Hosts, which 1:17:33.000 --> 1:17:35.559 service your season tickets as well as your single tickets 1:17:36.120 --> 1:17:40.759 all together, manage all of those transfer those, provide audits 1:17:40.800 --> 1:17:45.799 for you, sell your tickets for you, cancel them, manage 1:17:45.800 --> 1:17:48.920 your box office. All of the infrastructure needed to be 1:17:48.960 --> 1:17:54.000 a great enterprise platform for season and UM single tickets. 1:17:54.439 --> 1:17:57.400 That's a complex business to manage, and every team has 1:17:58.080 --> 1:18:00.680 twenty different customized things they on it to do. I 1:18:00.720 --> 1:18:03.120 wanted to talk to this, I wanted to do this 1:18:03.160 --> 1:18:05.160 with a sponsor. I wanted to do this with the 1:18:05.200 --> 1:18:07.680 Hall of Famer. So it's a real it's a real 1:18:07.840 --> 1:18:11.000 hard model to scale ticketing at the level it is 1:18:11.120 --> 1:18:15.320 and be absolutely customizable to such level. So that's really 1:18:15.320 --> 1:18:17.840 where its strength has been. When we launched our own 1:18:17.840 --> 1:18:20.800 ticketing company, we thought we would be able to do it, 1:18:20.840 --> 1:18:23.120 and we really realized that there was a hundred I 1:18:23.120 --> 1:18:25.240 had an audit company come and look at Live Nation 1:18:25.280 --> 1:18:28.439 ticketing versus Ticketmaster, and there was like a hundred nine 1:18:28.680 --> 1:18:31.559 seven things that Ticketmaster did for the venue that we 1:18:31.600 --> 1:18:35.080 couldn't even do. So it was all of this years 1:18:35.120 --> 1:18:38.840 of customization for Broadway for the venues UM that have 1:18:38.920 --> 1:18:43.120 made that platform very very viable UM and and UM 1:18:43.160 --> 1:18:45.160 and useful for the venue. So you have two things 1:18:45.160 --> 1:18:48.160 that Ticketmaster does better than most people. It's got a 1:18:48.280 --> 1:18:52.639 highly scalable platform, meaning it can handle billions of bots 1:18:52.640 --> 1:18:56.320 at ten am. We'll still customize it to your needs. 1:18:56.360 --> 1:18:59.320 When you say I'm a a football team that needs 1:18:59.320 --> 1:19:01.240 you to do this on a Sunday with the church 1:19:01.560 --> 1:19:06.000 for a benefit form for an exhibition game. Very very 1:19:06.080 --> 1:19:09.600 hard problems to solve at scale. The second thing that 1:19:09.640 --> 1:19:11.639 has done really well when we broke the company too, 1:19:11.680 --> 1:19:15.040 is it still happens to be incredible big e commerce marketplace. 1:19:15.600 --> 1:19:18.799 If you look at putting your if we're gonna service 1:19:18.840 --> 1:19:21.280 you as the venue, the biggest value you're gonna get 1:19:21.280 --> 1:19:23.800 is we're gonna sell your ticket at our marketplace where 1:19:23.800 --> 1:19:26.880 a majority of customers go to still buy their tickets, 1:19:26.880 --> 1:19:29.160 where it has the highest um you know, the e 1:19:29.240 --> 1:19:34.200 commerce scores of ticket sales. So one, we're gonna, you know, 1:19:34.240 --> 1:19:36.479 do two things. We're gonna have a great platform that's 1:19:36.479 --> 1:19:40.400 scalable yet customizable, and to we're gonna have the best 1:19:40.439 --> 1:19:42.760 marketplace to put that ticket for sale, help you sell 1:19:42.760 --> 1:19:45.479 that ticket, use our database, sell you more tickets, and 1:19:45.520 --> 1:19:47.960 we can we prove over and over if you leave 1:19:48.000 --> 1:19:51.679 our platform, odds are your ticket sales will go down 1:19:51.720 --> 1:19:54.960 just because we happen to have a big audience. Um. 1:19:55.080 --> 1:19:58.280 So we're we're we've been you know, successful at keeping 1:19:58.320 --> 1:20:02.360 both of those plates mean well, lots of engineers every 1:20:02.439 --> 1:20:07.720 day customizing our main platform and great e commerce people 1:20:07.760 --> 1:20:11.320 thinking about how we keep putting mor um, fixing our ux, 1:20:11.400 --> 1:20:14.120 getting to the app, making sure we can sell tickets 1:20:14.120 --> 1:20:16.599 better than anyone else when it comes to that seat 1:20:16.640 --> 1:20:19.320 map and I want to ticket um to my football 1:20:19.360 --> 1:20:22.599 game or my my one off game. So still too 1:20:22.640 --> 1:20:26.120 great skills and global that have been able to uh 1:20:26.160 --> 1:20:30.000 to to lead the pack there. Okay, if Live Nation 1:20:30.040 --> 1:20:35.720 hast of the concert market internationally, what percentage does Ticketmaster 1:20:35.880 --> 1:20:40.120 have domestically and Live Nation associated ticketing platforms around the 1:20:40.120 --> 1:20:47.120 world have internationally well Globally, the ticket team business is 1:20:47.160 --> 1:20:51.400 still fairly fragmented, So I don't know if we have 1:20:51.520 --> 1:20:57.280 that number there would be I wouldn't be a big 1:20:57.360 --> 1:21:01.600 number globally because his markets are still fragmented. Um and 1:21:01.640 --> 1:21:06.720 in the US again, you know the business of ticketing 1:21:06.920 --> 1:21:10.880 globally and ticketing in the US when you add when 1:21:10.920 --> 1:21:13.400 you look at the market of ticketing, we do a 1:21:13.439 --> 1:21:18.679 great job on one segment called arenas and uh and 1:21:18.680 --> 1:21:22.000 and amphitheaters, but you know, there's a whole world of 1:21:22.040 --> 1:21:24.960 ticketing that we don't participate in or don't have a 1:21:25.000 --> 1:21:27.320 high score. Whether it's you know, all the college businesses 1:21:27.400 --> 1:21:31.519 that Paciolan do the secondary business now sec of Sports 1:21:31.600 --> 1:21:35.880 seek geeks and Vivid's okay. Now you have an act 1:21:36.320 --> 1:21:38.920 that wants to go on the road, how do you 1:21:38.920 --> 1:21:41.160 convince them to come to Live Nation as opposed to 1:21:41.160 --> 1:21:43.479 a competitor. And at the end of the day, does 1:21:43.520 --> 1:21:48.400 it really just come down the money? Uh, you know 1:21:48.479 --> 1:21:51.360 it's it's never about the money. But it's always about 1:21:51.400 --> 1:21:55.519 the money, as they say. You know, listen, you still 1:21:55.520 --> 1:21:58.080 have to have the infrastructure to get the job done right. 1:21:58.439 --> 1:22:01.080 You can, you can win anything. It's it's the repeat 1:22:01.120 --> 1:22:05.800 business that matters. So you know the big piece of 1:22:05.800 --> 1:22:10.320 our businesses. We have a hundred offices in forty countries, 1:22:10.360 --> 1:22:13.360 so you know, think about it. Ultimately, we're a huge 1:22:13.400 --> 1:22:16.479 distribution company as well as a financing company, so you 1:22:16.520 --> 1:22:18.320 have to do both things. You have to make sure 1:22:18.400 --> 1:22:23.160 that you have the best financial incentives to win the business. Um. 1:22:23.280 --> 1:22:26.120 And whether it's a tour or it's local, but ultimately 1:22:26.120 --> 1:22:29.080 you've got to make sure you can execute the show. Um, 1:22:29.120 --> 1:22:31.840 you have the best economics for the band, whether they 1:22:31.880 --> 1:22:37.600 show up in Milan, Pittsburgh, Toronto, or um or Australia. 1:22:37.760 --> 1:22:41.280 So you know, our our strength has always been go global. 1:22:41.880 --> 1:22:44.920 A global business is what the artist needs today. Have 1:22:45.200 --> 1:22:48.719 offices and all the main cities, have the best marketing staff, 1:22:48.800 --> 1:22:53.920 production venue deals, marketing deals, sponsorship deals, um. And that 1:22:54.000 --> 1:22:56.599 ends up being you know kind of the business. If 1:22:56.600 --> 1:22:58.559 we can have the best players and most of the 1:22:58.600 --> 1:23:01.720 markets around the world, we can convince any artists that 1:23:01.760 --> 1:23:04.240 we can take care of their tour market at the best, 1:23:04.560 --> 1:23:07.479 execute at the best, get the best venue rates, get 1:23:07.520 --> 1:23:10.759 the best production rates, as well as pay the proper 1:23:10.920 --> 1:23:14.840 financing deal to to secure the deal because of your 1:23:14.840 --> 1:23:17.920 other revenue streams. Do you find if there's a competition 1:23:18.360 --> 1:23:24.280 live nation, if it chooses to can always pay more. Now, 1:23:24.400 --> 1:23:28.559 I mean you know most most of the ultimately you know, 1:23:28.720 --> 1:23:32.439 the tour that the local business is still a dog 1:23:32.479 --> 1:23:35.439 fight as you know, you know denver you're fighting. You 1:23:35.439 --> 1:23:39.759 know your guys versus uh guys. Everyone's got similar revenue streams, 1:23:39.760 --> 1:23:42.920 so tends to be the same same. No, we don't 1:23:42.920 --> 1:23:45.640 have any new tricks that the others don't have. So 1:23:45.680 --> 1:23:48.240 we've all got the same revenue streams. And if it's 1:23:48.240 --> 1:23:51.280 a tour, it's us versus a g um. They've got 1:23:51.320 --> 1:23:53.719 similar revenue streams. As you know, they own the buildings, 1:23:53.760 --> 1:23:56.519 they have the sponsorship, so we all have the same 1:23:56.560 --> 1:23:59.360 revenue streams to to use to win the tour or 1:23:59.400 --> 1:24:01.880 the local day eight. We just happen to think that, 1:24:01.920 --> 1:24:05.759 you know, Uh, I've always believed that it's a local business, 1:24:05.800 --> 1:24:09.120 and I think that's our competitive advantage very Having a 1:24:09.240 --> 1:24:14.120 hundred offices and thirty thousand staff executing your tour is 1:24:14.200 --> 1:24:17.280 a is a big investment to make, but it ultimately 1:24:17.280 --> 1:24:19.720 makes a difference when you're looking at that band and 1:24:19.720 --> 1:24:21.799 and talking about do you have boots on the ground 1:24:22.120 --> 1:24:26.479 to to make that happen. Now, you also have touring deals. 1:24:26.520 --> 1:24:28.240 I remember talking to you one day there was a 1:24:28.280 --> 1:24:31.920 relatively nason act with some action and you made an 1:24:31.920 --> 1:24:35.800 overall touring deal. So how prevalent are those and what's 1:24:35.840 --> 1:24:42.040 the philosophy behind that? Well, you know, touring deals, let's go. 1:24:43.560 --> 1:24:46.720 You know, ten twelve years ago was not It was 1:24:46.760 --> 1:24:49.840 not the norm. And I think every year you've seen 1:24:49.840 --> 1:24:53.599 more and more artists look at kind of uh looking 1:24:53.640 --> 1:24:58.439 for a partnership with someone us a g um and um, 1:24:58.960 --> 1:25:00.600 and I think they become more or of the of 1:25:00.640 --> 1:25:03.960 the norm, which would make sense because you know, I 1:25:04.280 --> 1:25:08.000 always remind artists or managers and agents that you know 1:25:08.320 --> 1:25:10.599 the same reason why you have a record deal. You didn't. 1:25:10.600 --> 1:25:13.479 You didn't sell off your record by by record store 1:25:13.600 --> 1:25:16.240 by city. You probably did a record deal because you 1:25:16.280 --> 1:25:18.599 want one partner thinking about your business on a longer 1:25:18.720 --> 1:25:22.800 term basis, on a marketing basis. So I truly believe 1:25:22.840 --> 1:25:26.320 that if you have a tour partner thinking about your 1:25:26.320 --> 1:25:29.120 tour on a global basis, you might not you know, 1:25:29.200 --> 1:25:33.280 make money and Denver, but you might make make money 1:25:33.320 --> 1:25:35.680 in Argentina and South America. You're going to make a 1:25:35.720 --> 1:25:38.840 different investment basis if it's spread over time and you 1:25:38.840 --> 1:25:41.280 can play together and you're gonna try to build a 1:25:41.320 --> 1:25:44.599 pot together. So I think I think an artist today, 1:25:44.840 --> 1:25:48.000 I think a manager today has a whole new business 1:25:48.040 --> 1:25:50.600 than he did of the old management system. Right, the 1:25:50.600 --> 1:25:52.479 old manager had to get you a record deal and 1:25:52.520 --> 1:25:55.120 a tour deal. The new manager today has got a 1:25:55.160 --> 1:25:58.280 whole new world to think about on influencers and how 1:25:58.280 --> 1:26:00.080 he's going to build his brand and what they going 1:26:00.120 --> 1:26:01.920 to do with that artist. I think when it comes 1:26:01.920 --> 1:26:05.000 to touring, I don't think it's that complex. In the end, 1:26:05.040 --> 1:26:07.519 I think he wants to meet with his agent talk 1:26:07.560 --> 1:26:10.679 about his tour plans and find a good, committed partner 1:26:10.720 --> 1:26:13.200 that's going to pay market rate with great marketing and 1:26:13.280 --> 1:26:16.160 support and get that done. I don't think there's a 1:26:16.360 --> 1:26:21.040 they are obsessed, um with what exact artist or what 1:26:21.560 --> 1:26:25.200 promoter and spain is doing the deal. I think they're 1:26:25.200 --> 1:26:28.479 more obsessed with who's my promoter? And I've got to 1:26:28.520 --> 1:26:30.839 think about that, just like I thought about my record partner. 1:26:31.200 --> 1:26:33.160 I want to play with a partner that's thinking long 1:26:33.280 --> 1:26:35.479 term with me. So we've seen that more and more 1:26:36.439 --> 1:26:39.639 um an artist looking for bigger deals, longer term deals. 1:26:41.000 --> 1:26:43.960 So what does a tour deal look like in what 1:26:44.160 --> 1:26:46.559 percentage of your business is that? Or to put another way, 1:26:46.600 --> 1:26:52.240 how many of you have? Well, because on a global basis, 1:26:52.320 --> 1:26:54.920 you know we you know I mentioned earlier we did 1:26:54.960 --> 1:26:57.240 thirty thousand shows. We might have five thousand of those 1:26:57.240 --> 1:26:59.599 would be a tour deal. A tour deal could be 1:27:00.560 --> 1:27:04.360 forty dates in America, could be a hundred dates globally, 1:27:04.479 --> 1:27:07.479 could be one year deal, could be three year deals 1:27:07.520 --> 1:27:10.240 depending if the artist is on cycle or once a 1:27:10.280 --> 1:27:13.120 couple of cycle deal or a certain amount of shows. 1:27:13.400 --> 1:27:17.240 So somewhere between you know, one cycle and three cycles 1:27:17.240 --> 1:27:20.360 maybe a tour deal. Okay, what's the future of the 1:27:20.400 --> 1:27:23.880 agency business If we're looking from the agency side. Music 1:27:23.920 --> 1:27:28.360 representation is a small revenue share of these giant agencies, 1:27:28.840 --> 1:27:32.840 and certainly when you have the monster acts, do they 1:27:32.960 --> 1:27:35.679 really need an agent at all? So what's your thought 1:27:35.760 --> 1:27:41.400 about where that's all going. Well, you know, I think anyone, 1:27:41.560 --> 1:27:44.879 I think we've all got squeezed in the business. Right. Ultimately, 1:27:44.920 --> 1:27:48.280 the artist has done a great job of building their 1:27:48.320 --> 1:27:51.919 business over time, and the manager, the agent, the promoter, 1:27:52.200 --> 1:27:56.880 everyone ultimately had gotten squeezed over time. Promoter, I know 1:27:57.040 --> 1:27:58.719 used to be it used to be what a fifty 1:27:58.760 --> 1:28:03.240 fifty eight twenty manager used to get paid on gross 1:28:03.400 --> 1:28:05.960 versus net, And an agent's gotten squeezed. So I think 1:28:06.000 --> 1:28:09.439 we're all in the same business. The middleman ultimately gets 1:28:09.479 --> 1:28:12.280 squeezed over time if you don't reinvent your business or 1:28:12.360 --> 1:28:15.639 diversify it. I as a promoter, knew that we wouldn't 1:28:16.040 --> 1:28:19.599 we couldn't exist. Just as a promoter fifteen years ago 1:28:19.640 --> 1:28:21.920 when I was you know, looked at Live Nation, it 1:28:22.080 --> 1:28:24.679 was that to me was just one piece of the business. 1:28:24.720 --> 1:28:27.320 You had to build a much more diversified business model 1:28:27.760 --> 1:28:31.040 over time. To win, which we worked on. I think 1:28:31.080 --> 1:28:33.320 the agents have done the same thing. I think whether 1:28:33.360 --> 1:28:36.400 you're William Morris or c A A, they've all you know, 1:28:36.880 --> 1:28:39.680 William Morris obviously very different with UFC and others, but 1:28:40.160 --> 1:28:42.839 I think they looked at it as a macro business 1:28:42.880 --> 1:28:46.280 and they've diversified into other businesses to build around it 1:28:46.880 --> 1:28:49.000 UM so they can try to offer value to those 1:28:49.240 --> 1:28:53.360 artists and clients, UM beyond just their you know, the 1:28:53.479 --> 1:28:56.559 historic business model. So I think they'll I think that listen, 1:28:56.600 --> 1:29:00.599 they're great brands at the car CEA William Morris case 1:29:00.640 --> 1:29:02.719 you now joining. I think the role of an agent 1:29:03.600 --> 1:29:06.160 UH is a is a good check and balance for 1:29:06.240 --> 1:29:09.839 the manager UM. And I think the agent will continue 1:29:09.880 --> 1:29:14.439 to evolve their services UM, much like the labels have evolved. 1:29:14.520 --> 1:29:16.960 Right everyone looked at the labels and all of a 1:29:17.000 --> 1:29:19.439 sudden they're making money on Peloton that no one predicted. 1:29:19.840 --> 1:29:21.720 So I think the artists are gonna make a lot 1:29:21.760 --> 1:29:24.960 of money there direct to consumer brands. Right now, every 1:29:25.080 --> 1:29:29.920 artist wants his own vodka is tequilas, Monetizing his Instagram 1:29:30.120 --> 1:29:33.320 is TikTok. There's lots of ways to monetize these artists. 1:29:33.680 --> 1:29:37.760 Outside of the tour alone. The agents are all looking 1:29:37.800 --> 1:29:39.800 at how do we how do we add more value 1:29:39.840 --> 1:29:42.479 to the to the UH, to the to the artist. 1:29:42.560 --> 1:29:44.880 How do we get them into venture deals together, how 1:29:44.960 --> 1:29:48.880 do we monetize their privates? How do we ponetize um 1:29:49.120 --> 1:29:52.000 affairs and festivals. So still a big piece of the 1:29:52.040 --> 1:29:54.479 business and and a whole new world for the agents 1:29:54.520 --> 1:29:57.800 that they keep evolving their skill set. One thing we 1:29:57.960 --> 1:30:03.920 know is the traditional let's put the traditional major label 1:30:03.960 --> 1:30:05.800 business is very different from it used to use. Some 1:30:05.880 --> 1:30:10.000 major labels controlled most of the market place, certainly in 1:30:10.000 --> 1:30:12.840 the era of physical distribution, and those were the acts 1:30:12.920 --> 1:30:15.760 that sold the tickets. Now more than ever, if you 1:30:15.800 --> 1:30:18.160 look at pole Star, you look at grosses, it could 1:30:18.200 --> 1:30:22.360 be completely different from the Spotify top fifty. So in 1:30:22.479 --> 1:30:25.439 a music level, what is going on in general? What 1:30:25.520 --> 1:30:30.800 do you see in the marketplace? Yeah, you know, but 1:30:30.920 --> 1:30:33.840 I saw that that that's been consistent for quite a while. 1:30:34.000 --> 1:30:38.400 I mean, even pop music that charts, we're not always 1:30:38.479 --> 1:30:42.479 reflective of the sale on the venue, so that that's 1:30:42.520 --> 1:30:46.160 not new to me. UM. We we've seen that disconnect 1:30:46.720 --> 1:30:50.320 from disco days onward. It didn't always mean that you 1:30:50.360 --> 1:30:54.479 could sell tickets. So, um, you know, I I don't 1:30:54.560 --> 1:30:58.439 see that as uh is anything that affects the business differently, 1:30:59.000 --> 1:31:01.479 you know, I do think that you look at the business, 1:31:01.880 --> 1:31:03.920 you know, it's a day and you look at hip 1:31:03.960 --> 1:31:06.439 hop businesses as you know, let's call that the new 1:31:06.560 --> 1:31:08.919 rock and roll or the rock and roll of today's generation. 1:31:09.479 --> 1:31:12.680 That's vibrant and big as ever Travis Scott do you 1:31:12.840 --> 1:31:16.519 name them are selling out and driving driving venues like 1:31:16.880 --> 1:31:19.680 the rock and roll of the past. So that's relevant 1:31:19.720 --> 1:31:22.800 and bigger than ever. Um So I don't, I don't. 1:31:22.840 --> 1:31:26.360 I don't think the the charts reflective on the ticket 1:31:26.400 --> 1:31:29.280 sales is a new disconnect. I think that's been happening 1:31:29.360 --> 1:31:33.800 for for a long time. Okay, so what do we know? 1:31:33.960 --> 1:31:36.200 You're in this business three d in sixty five days 1:31:36.240 --> 1:31:39.800 a year. Certainly new managers they may only have one 1:31:39.880 --> 1:31:43.920 act and are wept behind the year. So what do 1:31:44.040 --> 1:31:47.360 you say to new managers who have a successful act, 1:31:47.439 --> 1:31:50.240 it's got some action. What lessons do they need to learn? 1:31:50.280 --> 1:31:52.960 What do they have to wake up to? Wow, it's 1:31:52.960 --> 1:31:55.080 a great it's a great one. You know, I think 1:31:55.120 --> 1:32:00.559 they're you know that you see the the chain happening 1:32:00.600 --> 1:32:04.880 in this new era of managers um in that there 1:32:05.880 --> 1:32:10.759 they're driving their artists. Probably is celebrities more than artists 1:32:10.800 --> 1:32:14.120 at times. Um And I do think that, you know, 1:32:14.240 --> 1:32:16.640 we we often remind them that even though they may 1:32:16.720 --> 1:32:19.360 be able to get a vodka line or sell some 1:32:19.479 --> 1:32:23.240 Instagram ads, longevity means you've got to have hits and 1:32:23.320 --> 1:32:26.320 you've got to apprentice yourself on that road and connect. 1:32:26.960 --> 1:32:30.240 Uh So I would say sometimes, you know, I was 1:32:30.320 --> 1:32:33.479 with a manager and we had a tour that wasn't 1:32:33.520 --> 1:32:35.920 selling well, and I said to what what are we 1:32:35.960 --> 1:32:40.320 gonna do? And and he said, well, you know, we're 1:32:40.320 --> 1:32:43.000 getting paid for privates and we're gonna launch a hot 1:32:43.080 --> 1:32:48.080 sauce because we have a lot of followers. And I thought, wow, Now, 1:32:48.160 --> 1:32:51.160 for thirty years, Bob, that answer would have been, you know, 1:32:51.200 --> 1:32:52.720 we're gonna get in the art we're gonna get in 1:32:52.760 --> 1:32:54.760 the studio, we've got a single coming, and we're gonna 1:32:54.800 --> 1:32:59.560 sell some tickets. Um So, I do think that, you know, 1:32:59.680 --> 1:33:01.840 over night, now if you have twenty million followers, you 1:33:01.920 --> 1:33:05.160 can sell some Instagram ads and make a living. Um So, 1:33:05.280 --> 1:33:08.160 I think that they have to watch that fine line 1:33:08.200 --> 1:33:13.360 between driving their brand monetizing their brand. But ultimately, if 1:33:13.360 --> 1:33:15.920 they're gonna play long, they've still got to put those hits. 1:33:16.680 --> 1:33:18.439 They've got to have the playlist, and they've got to 1:33:18.479 --> 1:33:22.040 be be able to connect on stage and sell arenas. 1:33:22.040 --> 1:33:24.559 I mean, i'd always tell that artist, sell the arena, 1:33:25.120 --> 1:33:29.040 sell the amphitheater. If you can sell the stadium, then 1:33:29.160 --> 1:33:33.320 start the monetization because you'll never you'll never get that 1:33:33.560 --> 1:33:36.360 chance to get that run and build that business. But 1:33:36.520 --> 1:33:39.760 once you stand on stage as a stadium act and 1:33:39.920 --> 1:33:43.760 get that rarefied air, the next the next thirty or 1:33:43.800 --> 1:33:46.280 forty years are set. But you've got to get there. 1:33:46.320 --> 1:33:48.840 That you're you're you're defined as an artist on what 1:33:48.960 --> 1:33:51.320 you do on stage, and if you can get to 1:33:51.400 --> 1:33:55.920 that rarefied stadium, even that sell outs arena business, you 1:33:56.120 --> 1:34:00.760 become an artist of a different caliber and then you're 1:34:00.800 --> 1:34:03.320 probably going to be able to have a career, even 1:34:03.400 --> 1:34:06.959 if it's a diminishing career of casinos and fairs eventually, 1:34:07.439 --> 1:34:11.320 but the more people you can perform to and really 1:34:11.840 --> 1:34:15.479 live is where you make fans on on on you know, 1:34:15.600 --> 1:34:18.479 on Spotify is where you you sell some some streams, 1:34:18.600 --> 1:34:22.200 but but you you you cement long term fans when 1:34:22.240 --> 1:34:25.080 they see you live. Um. And the more you do 1:34:25.240 --> 1:34:26.840 that and you put all that hard work in and 1:34:26.920 --> 1:34:30.559 go global and go play some festivals, solidify that fan 1:34:30.720 --> 1:34:34.920 base and then and then the monetization will come. Versus 1:34:35.200 --> 1:34:38.599 you get monetize it too fast and early, that artist 1:34:38.640 --> 1:34:40.200 isn't gonna want to get on that plane and go 1:34:40.320 --> 1:34:43.160 all the way to Belgium to play that festival, or 1:34:43.720 --> 1:34:46.840 build that build that road show. So you know I'm 1:34:46.920 --> 1:34:49.800 biased because I live and live, but we've seen it 1:34:49.880 --> 1:34:52.160 over and over. If you build a live audience, you 1:34:52.240 --> 1:34:55.160 build a fan base live. That magic that you make 1:34:55.240 --> 1:34:57.439 with that fan in that field or in that stadium 1:34:57.520 --> 1:35:01.840 or that festival carries your brand for long time. And 1:35:02.000 --> 1:35:05.160 what is the status of Live Nations management company? Is 1:35:05.240 --> 1:35:07.439 that a future business? When we see that fade away 1:35:07.560 --> 1:35:11.320 sold off? No, No, we we like we like it 1:35:11.560 --> 1:35:16.280 um Um. You know, it started organically, so it's not 1:35:18.120 --> 1:35:20.639 it's not meant to be uh, anything more than than 1:35:20.720 --> 1:35:23.080 the obvious. We started with jay Z and rock Nation 1:35:23.200 --> 1:35:25.880 and it was our kind of our first shot at 1:35:25.920 --> 1:35:29.280 being in business with an artist and a manager company. Um. 1:35:29.600 --> 1:35:33.400 And then we've expanded slowly over time. Obviously, what Irvan 1:35:33.479 --> 1:35:35.439 was was here for a bit and gone and we 1:35:35.520 --> 1:35:39.320 have our seventeen management companies. Now we'd be investors in UM. 1:35:39.800 --> 1:35:44.280 I love that division Artist Nation. UH. It's great to 1:35:44.320 --> 1:35:47.080 be that connected to the artist and the manager to 1:35:47.160 --> 1:35:49.680 see the world from their view here what's going on 1:35:49.880 --> 1:35:52.800 from the record deals to the uh to to the 1:35:52.920 --> 1:35:57.160 madness and and and selling off their records and publishing 1:35:57.240 --> 1:36:00.679 rights and and obviously it helps drive our core business. 1:36:00.800 --> 1:36:04.280 Is if if you're if you're building those relationships, it 1:36:04.400 --> 1:36:06.880 does it does ultimately get you to win a few 1:36:06.960 --> 1:36:10.040 jump balls, um when you're battling for the tour. So 1:36:10.560 --> 1:36:13.800 we just you know, concluded a deal recently. Well we'll 1:36:13.840 --> 1:36:16.360 keep building that division. UM. We think it's a good 1:36:16.400 --> 1:36:19.760 adjacent business to our core business, high margin compared to uh, 1:36:19.920 --> 1:36:24.519 the concert business. So we like it, okay. And what's 1:36:24.560 --> 1:36:27.680 the status of festivals both domestically and worldwide? What do 1:36:27.760 --> 1:36:29.840 we know? There were a few then there were too 1:36:29.920 --> 1:36:34.720 many where we at now you know, there's a I 1:36:34.840 --> 1:36:37.839 think a little bit of a shakeout happened. Probably obviously 1:36:37.960 --> 1:36:40.400 COVID did did help. We've we even struck out a few. 1:36:40.439 --> 1:36:44.000 I think we I think we shut down twelve that 1:36:44.080 --> 1:36:47.680 weren't working that we didn't love over over our festival portfolio. 1:36:48.240 --> 1:36:52.679 Um So, I I think you're seeing the bars getting higher, 1:36:53.120 --> 1:36:56.440 which is um to kind of make make a successful 1:36:56.520 --> 1:36:59.680 festival work. Um So, if you're lucky enough to be 1:36:59.800 --> 1:37:03.320 in space like Lalla Palooza is, or Coachella or Bonnaroo 1:37:03.439 --> 1:37:06.280 or a c l um where you seem to be 1:37:06.400 --> 1:37:11.160 passage of right in in that consumer space, they're fabulous businesses. 1:37:11.400 --> 1:37:13.800 I mean, Lola Palooza is. You know, I can't take 1:37:13.840 --> 1:37:15.479 any of the credit. It was everyone else. But you 1:37:15.479 --> 1:37:17.800 know what a brand they built that we're now sitting 1:37:17.840 --> 1:37:21.080 in all of these festivals in South America, over in Europe. 1:37:21.160 --> 1:37:25.320 It's through traveling festival brand that that's worked well. So 1:37:26.040 --> 1:37:29.400 festivals are still you know, consumers love them to death 1:37:29.720 --> 1:37:32.920 on a global basis. We have a couple hundred of 1:37:33.000 --> 1:37:35.799 them and I love them still, whether they're boutique ideas 1:37:36.200 --> 1:37:39.880 like we're doing in England too big ideas. Um I 1:37:39.920 --> 1:37:43.120 think there's still vibrant, still lots of landscape. I think 1:37:43.240 --> 1:37:44.720 you know, you and I've talked about it. I think 1:37:44.760 --> 1:37:46.800 I don't. I don't think all of a sudden you 1:37:46.880 --> 1:37:50.479 can just launch a mainline festival with you know, three 1:37:50.520 --> 1:37:53.080 different genres of music over the weekend and expect a 1:37:53.160 --> 1:37:57.080 hundred thousand anymore. I think they become like any industry. 1:37:57.200 --> 1:38:01.160 They went out wide, then they the big ones survived, 1:38:01.280 --> 1:38:05.000 and then the niche one started to create their own space. 1:38:05.120 --> 1:38:09.080 So we see it happening now, a niche idea in 1:38:09.160 --> 1:38:13.000 a good location against a certain genre of music or 1:38:13.000 --> 1:38:15.840 a certain theme. Look look at Eddie's festival we're doing 1:38:15.920 --> 1:38:19.320 in uh Down near San Diego on the ocean, a 1:38:19.400 --> 1:38:24.880 real beach theme, and of UM sold out obviously through COVID, 1:38:24.960 --> 1:38:27.320 sold out. But so I like the I like the 1:38:27.439 --> 1:38:30.599 super served ideas where they're hitting a certain target, certain 1:38:30.680 --> 1:38:35.759 location um, and they're less They're almost less talent reliant 1:38:35.840 --> 1:38:38.200 because they have more of a thematic and soul to them, 1:38:38.680 --> 1:38:40.880 and those ones tend to work, and the band is 1:38:40.920 --> 1:38:45.080 the compliment to the theme, not just a bad line 1:38:45.240 --> 1:38:48.000 or typically we have a good lineup with a bad 1:38:48.160 --> 1:38:50.600 name and we think it's a festival, but it's not. 1:38:51.040 --> 1:38:53.840 It's got no soul, no no, no, no real reason 1:38:53.920 --> 1:38:56.800 for existing other than the lineup. So I think those 1:38:56.840 --> 1:38:59.200 are gone. We don't green light many of those anymore. 1:38:59.600 --> 1:39:02.680 If you've had a good idea or a great location. Uh, 1:39:02.800 --> 1:39:06.680 those seem to be working well. Okay, if you use 1:39:06.760 --> 1:39:10.920 Elton John's song, I'm still standing. You look at your 1:39:11.000 --> 1:39:12.920 tenure at Live Nation. There are a lot of people 1:39:12.960 --> 1:39:16.360 in power that are no longer there. You have remained. 1:39:17.439 --> 1:39:21.200 What makes you successful both from the beginning and now 1:39:21.360 --> 1:39:26.479 you personally. Oh jeez, I know you have to kind 1:39:26.520 --> 1:39:29.360 of my therapy session on Thursdays to dig into that 1:39:29.479 --> 1:39:33.840 one as we're as we're strying to solve that. You know, 1:39:33.960 --> 1:39:36.320 I don't know, none of us can understand what are 1:39:36.439 --> 1:39:40.599 superhuman power is. But uh um, you know, I think 1:39:40.640 --> 1:39:44.880 I got lucky early in life that I really really 1:39:45.040 --> 1:39:48.920 loved live entertainment and I found a passion early. So 1:39:49.000 --> 1:39:51.240 I do think that's been part of the success, right 1:39:51.280 --> 1:39:55.240 because from my early days this was what I wanted 1:39:55.280 --> 1:39:58.679 to do. So I was very focused, been very focused 1:39:59.120 --> 1:40:03.720 on building this kind of business in this space. Um uh. 1:40:04.160 --> 1:40:06.879 And I do think that's the real reason I'm successful. 1:40:06.880 --> 1:40:08.599 I didn't want to run a record label, I didn't 1:40:08.600 --> 1:40:10.920 want to run anything else, but I wanted to build 1:40:10.960 --> 1:40:13.920 a live concert company. And I think my focus and 1:40:14.000 --> 1:40:16.800 a little bit of my Thunderbay Warrior in me Um. 1:40:17.400 --> 1:40:20.960 And that grit added together with that complete focused agenda 1:40:21.479 --> 1:40:23.599 is how we ended up kind of staying on course here. 1:40:24.080 --> 1:40:26.240 Most people that I was battling with the most things 1:40:26.280 --> 1:40:29.840 I've been through, they didn't have the obsessive focus I 1:40:29.960 --> 1:40:32.320 had on a live event business. I mean, they might 1:40:32.360 --> 1:40:33.960 have wanted to be in business, they might have wanted 1:40:34.000 --> 1:40:37.240 a music's business, they might have other agendas. But you 1:40:37.320 --> 1:40:39.120 had to wake up early and go to bed late 1:40:39.200 --> 1:40:42.200 to beat me on this core business idea because this 1:40:42.360 --> 1:40:45.800 is this is what I think about nightly daily. Yeah, 1:40:45.880 --> 1:40:48.519 but knowing a little bit more than we've talked about 1:40:48.600 --> 1:40:51.120 here so far, going back to the top. You were 1:40:51.200 --> 1:40:54.839 working for Lobat. They had a company library. You literally 1:40:55.000 --> 1:40:59.000 read every book in the library. Yeah, you can say grip, 1:40:59.040 --> 1:41:02.559 but there's more of a dedication, more of an effort. 1:41:02.720 --> 1:41:10.080 Obviously an intelligence point too, that is really a key component. Yeah, 1:41:10.240 --> 1:41:15.120 you know, Um, maybe it's small town values. There's a 1:41:15.160 --> 1:41:16.880 little bit of Canadian and you when you when you 1:41:16.960 --> 1:41:20.200 grow up in Canada, um and you're you know, you're 1:41:20.240 --> 1:41:23.479 you're looking at ABC and CBS every day and looking 1:41:23.479 --> 1:41:27.160 at this big, big country called America, telling you how 1:41:27.200 --> 1:41:29.080 great they are you. You definitely don't grow up in 1:41:29.160 --> 1:41:31.760 Canada thinking that you have any of the answers. You 1:41:31.800 --> 1:41:34.080 don't think you're the smartest on the block. You think 1:41:34.120 --> 1:41:36.120 you have a lot to prove and a lot to learn. 1:41:36.720 --> 1:41:40.280 So I would say from from my insecure, small thunder 1:41:40.360 --> 1:41:44.640 Bay roots, um, you know, my obsession with learning and 1:41:45.000 --> 1:41:48.880 trying to outwork and outlearn the other guy still exists today. 1:41:49.400 --> 1:41:51.800 So I think that that tenacity of I'm going to 1:41:52.600 --> 1:41:55.840 work harder and because I'm not the smartest guy in 1:41:55.840 --> 1:41:59.240 the room, I better read and understand and and and 1:41:59.439 --> 1:42:02.000 and kind of figure out every angle to the the 1:42:02.080 --> 1:42:06.439 equation um to get this job done. So absolutely that 1:42:06.800 --> 1:42:13.800 that that burning desire to learn, observe, digest um has 1:42:13.920 --> 1:42:16.040 has stayed with me. I still don't think I've arrived. 1:42:16.080 --> 1:42:17.960 I don't think I got it figured out yet. I don't. 1:42:18.320 --> 1:42:20.960 I'm not resting on my laurels. So that tenacity to 1:42:21.120 --> 1:42:24.920 keep keep striving to be better having arrived yet has 1:42:25.000 --> 1:42:28.599 been I guess probably a good a good thing. Okay, 1:42:28.640 --> 1:42:31.240 in the live side of the business. Uh, it's not 1:42:31.439 --> 1:42:33.479 like the way they used to shuffle the decks at 1:42:33.560 --> 1:42:36.040 record companies, which they've done a little bit less of now, 1:42:36.920 --> 1:42:42.240 and there are lifers, you know, Louis Messina, you know 1:42:42.439 --> 1:42:44.160 a lot of other ones. How long do you plan 1:42:44.280 --> 1:42:48.280 to do this? You know, I would say what I 1:42:48.400 --> 1:42:54.240 love about the live business very different than the record business. Um. Now, 1:42:54.320 --> 1:42:57.719 the record business has not produced a lot of entrepreneurs overall. 1:42:58.200 --> 1:43:00.479 You know, there's been a few big winners, obviously Geffen 1:43:00.600 --> 1:43:04.920 and you know, Jimmy and Clive um. But generally they're 1:43:05.080 --> 1:43:07.640 they're they're like the movie studios. They work within an 1:43:07.680 --> 1:43:11.200 existing system. UM. I love the live business because it 1:43:11.400 --> 1:43:16.479 is filled with characters and entrepreneurs still to date. So 1:43:16.960 --> 1:43:19.160 I I do believe one of the strengths of Live 1:43:19.280 --> 1:43:23.160 Nation is we've just been continually able to reinvent ourselves 1:43:23.240 --> 1:43:26.720 because you know, the the innovator's dilemma is always how 1:43:26.760 --> 1:43:29.760 do you keep making your big company innovative? Well, you've 1:43:29.760 --> 1:43:32.400 got to keep injecting it with some of the craziest right, 1:43:32.400 --> 1:43:35.960 You've got to inject it with entrepreneurship. Um. And and 1:43:36.200 --> 1:43:38.599 every day we're waking up doing a new joint venture 1:43:38.680 --> 1:43:45.160 with the latest you know, um, festival hustler, entrepreneur, venue operator, promoter, 1:43:45.600 --> 1:43:47.680 My company is filled with them. We have hundreds of 1:43:47.800 --> 1:43:51.280 joint ventures. UM. So I do find that we've been 1:43:51.320 --> 1:43:56.000 able to although run a very big public company, uh 1:43:56.280 --> 1:44:00.559 the entrepreneurial flair and me still gets fed uh daily 1:44:00.840 --> 1:44:02.760 and I get the deal and live with some of 1:44:02.800 --> 1:44:08.000 the greatest entrepreneurs, the crazies, the fun the big thinkers. 1:44:08.520 --> 1:44:11.360 None of these guys in the entertainment space in theory 1:44:11.439 --> 1:44:14.080 have worked for a company. As you know, the messina is, 1:44:14.160 --> 1:44:18.560 the Focals, the Dennis Desmond's, the c three guys, the 1:44:18.960 --> 1:44:23.920 insomniac Pascals, the Ron Lafittes, all the managers. None of 1:44:23.960 --> 1:44:26.160 them think they work for me. They don't work for 1:44:26.240 --> 1:44:30.640 a company. We're a federation. So I do find that exhilarating. 1:44:30.680 --> 1:44:34.320 I wouldn't be able to work in a traditional business 1:44:34.439 --> 1:44:37.040 like lebat and others, where it was just kind of 1:44:37.120 --> 1:44:41.080 filled with a line workers. I do love the entrepreneurship 1:44:41.200 --> 1:44:45.240 that that the live business feeds um and reinvents itself 1:44:45.320 --> 1:44:47.800 and overnight there's a new entrepreneur. As you know, if 1:44:47.840 --> 1:44:50.920 he if he finds the right field with the right idea, 1:44:51.360 --> 1:44:54.280 he can be the next Paul Tollett. Right, So we're 1:44:54.280 --> 1:44:56.920 always on pursuit of kind of like America's got talent, 1:44:57.000 --> 1:44:59.640 we're always looking for new talent. Um. We read a 1:44:59.680 --> 1:45:02.080 fine your self by it and uh and I love 1:45:02.360 --> 1:45:05.160 being part of that and and um. So that's that's 1:45:05.240 --> 1:45:07.400 what finds it exciting. So it's it's far from a 1:45:07.479 --> 1:45:10.040 job to me. As you know, you've got lucky every 1:45:10.080 --> 1:45:13.160 now and then, find your passion, do it with great people, 1:45:13.280 --> 1:45:17.040 have success. I'll run this one as as long as 1:45:17.120 --> 1:45:21.040 it's still exciting and fun. Okay, thank you, Michael. This 1:45:21.120 --> 1:45:24.160 has been so great. Thanks for talking to our own audience. 1:45:24.240 --> 1:45:28.360 Really appreciate it. Thank you, Bob appreciated. Until next time. 1:45:28.560 --> 1:45:29.800 This is Bob Left Sense