1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing, 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:08,640 Speaker 1: whatever it is, whatever you do, you're our daughter, and 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:12,120 Speaker 1: I will love John Robin Bates has a new play 4 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 1: on Broadway, recently nominated for a Tony. Other Desert Cities 5 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: is about family dysfunction and the choices we make. There 6 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: are consequences to our actions. What does that mean? How 7 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 1: could I trust you? How could I ever be in 8 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: your presence? My dear Robbie, as he's known to many, 9 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: pursued similar themes in the drama he created, an executive 10 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 1: produced for ABC Brothers and Sisters. Robbie's strengths as a 11 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:49,160 Speaker 1: playwright are magnified by the talent he surrounds himself with. 12 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: Dan Sullivan directed Substance of Fire in Joe Mantello directed 13 00:00:55,560 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: Other Desert Cities. Robbie Bates often writes for ethic actors 14 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: he admires, like Stacy Keach and Ron Rifkin, who have 15 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: worked on several of Robbie's stage and screen projects. In 16 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: the theater world, you would be hard pressed to find 17 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,479 Speaker 1: someone who wouldn't want to work with Robbie. He comes 18 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: across as kind, human and humble. During our conversation, he 19 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: confessed there's been a dark side to his success on Broadway. 20 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,199 Speaker 1: He's been spoiled. John Robin Bates can barely think about 21 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 1: going back to the smaller theaters. I'm ruined. I'm ruined 22 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: from off Broadway now. I I sort of say things like, well, 23 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 1: that plays an off Broadway play, it's not a Broadway play. 24 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: Making fun of myself. The difference is, you know, you're 25 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: in this great, great, grand old house, you know that's 26 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: built for a kind of big experience, and the drama 27 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: is somehow expanded. I mean, I I've listened. I never 28 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: knew the difference, so I was always and when you're there, 29 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: you feel there's a di at different tapestry there. When 30 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: you're in a Broadway house that lends itself to the 31 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: kind of the imp ward of the project. There's a 32 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: lot of different things going on. You know, the audience 33 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: has bought into an experience for which they've usually sadly 34 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: paid more money, and so it changes the dynamic, it changes, 35 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: there's more ornamentation around it in some way. The laughs change, 36 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: which is odd. The laughs are sort of bigger and 37 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: more expensive, and so so what was the arc of 38 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: other desert cities before you went to Probably it began 39 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 1: where in the Mitzi new House, which is the beautiful 40 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: Jewel theater in the basement of Lincoln Center. I think, small, intimate, 41 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:46,559 Speaker 1: and in fact even claustrophobic. What happened was Joe Mantello, 42 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: who directed it, immediately had a sense of of having 43 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 1: to build space around things, and that when once it 44 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: moved in the transfer, I actually believe the play got 45 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: better in its move It just all came together and 46 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: someone I did a little work on the play, and 47 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: for example, what work did you do? I worked a 48 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:08,959 Speaker 1: little bit on the ending of the play, the last 49 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: few minutes of the play. But it went so well 50 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: off Broadway Lincoln Center. When you do that kind of thing, 51 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: what is it that propels you to do that? It's 52 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: just the knowledge that there's more to mind from it. 53 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: And mostly it was, you know, Joe's great sort of 54 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: probing sense of I think there's a deeper truth there. 55 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: I think we've glossed over something or skipped over something. 56 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: You have a success now on Broadway that if i'm 57 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: I could be mistaken, but it's been a while since 58 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: you had it to this level. This is a like 59 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: Substance of Fire again. You know where you had great, 60 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: great notices and people have said wonderful things about your 61 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: career and your future. That was twenty years ago. I 62 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: know when you look back on some of your place, 63 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: would you change them? I can't. I just have to 64 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: keep moving forward, right, I can't do it. I know 65 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: that people do, but you know I can't fight old wars. 66 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: I would find it disablingly backwards looking for myself to 67 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: go back. I think some of my plays have been 68 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: less successful to me than others. And to me, it's 69 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 1: all been about the process of getting to the next 70 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: play or getting to the next day. This play, though 71 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: at the core of it it comes out of trying 72 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: to understand the ways in which people collapse, even though 73 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: the subject is not necessarily depression. I want to take 74 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: two plays Substance of Fire Sullivan directed and Now You're 75 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 1: on Broadway and had been at the mid Sea with 76 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: other desert cities, and Joe directed. Compare and contrast Sullivan 77 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: with Joe in terms of their director very similar. They 78 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: are meticulous, meticulous miniaturists with big, expansive visions of what 79 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: logic and a world are comprised of. They're both indefatigable. 80 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: They never give up, They live and breathe it. Their 81 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: approaches are very different. Dan has a kind of almost 82 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: holistic view of of the logic of a play, and 83 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 1: Joe because I don't know, maybe because he was an 84 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 1: actor for a long time. Even though Dan had been 85 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: an actor, Joe looks for a different kind of character logic. 86 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: He's always asking and what happens next. Dramaturgically, he's very 87 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 1: much about the engine and the motor and Dan is, well, 88 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: he's also actually, he's actually all they're They're so similar 89 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 1: that it's only a matter of their temperaments that are different. 90 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 1: Dan is like a priest. Yeah, he's more jesuitical and 91 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: then tell her was what uh? To the extent that 92 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:18,799 Speaker 1: you want to say, He's passionately, passionately dedicated to leaving 93 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 1: no stone unturned. And I think one of the reasons 94 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: he went back to acting this last year did The 95 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: Normal Heart on Broadway, and I think it's because he 96 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: had to re experience the the sort of dynamic of 97 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: what it means to be an actor, to get under 98 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 1: the skin of the experience and find out what kind 99 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: of communicator he is with actors. By acting again. Dan 100 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 1: has a a kind of remove about him, and Joe 101 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: tends to delve, oh sort of with sword, kind of 102 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: play stile play. Yeah. But they both have in common 103 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: is real rigor about their work, ethic and their intellectual 104 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: understanding of a subject, of a world. Sometimes, although it's 105 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: not always useful, I divide directors between directors that you 106 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: want to please because you want them to like you, 107 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: and directors that you want to please because you don't 108 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: want them to hate you. And I don't think I 109 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: need to tell you which one would be which in 110 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: this case, you know, because Joe seems so intense, It 111 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: just seems so smoldering all the time. Well he is 112 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:42,679 Speaker 1: he No, he wants you to show him. He doesn't 113 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: want to have to tell you what to do. He 114 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: wants you to bring something amazing to the table every day. 115 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: It's why one loves, for instance, our mutual friend Nathan 116 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: Nathan Lane, because every day he brings something new, what 117 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: they call him money player. Many people, I think don't 118 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: understand this is not always the case that the theatrical 119 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: experience movies are very, very different when you work with 120 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: the director in the theater. A lot of them don't 121 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: tell you this or that they edit. You know. The 122 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: most famous example who I love is Joey Tillinger who 123 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: Tillinger basically says nothing for the for the three weeks, 124 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: and then in the last week he selects. My recollection 125 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: of Joey was it was three weeks of me doing something. 126 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: I'd say, what do you think? You say? What do 127 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 1: you think? Babe? Do you think it was? I just 128 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: I can't do it that way. I see it as 129 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: all about stripping away and finding that kind of improvisatory 130 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: freedom that's locked in the text, and that involves a 131 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: combination of savv nous and analysis and getting off book 132 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: really fast and being to move around really fast, and 133 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 1: then setting joe I'm told is a stickliff for that 134 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: get off books because nothing really happens until you do. Yeah, 135 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: it's it's it's difficult, especially in a world now, where 136 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: as I recall, you used to have five weeks of 137 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: rehearsal for a straight play, we've gone to a four 138 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 1: week rehearsal. Four weeks that goes by like like you sneeze. 139 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: I like shorter rehearsals with Bob Falls, another great director. 140 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: I did three hotels this last summer at Williamstown with 141 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: More Tierney and Stephen Webber, and they had two and 142 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: a half weeks Everything is Dangerous two and a half weeks. 143 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:46,439 Speaker 1: Tell me about when a play like Substance of Fire, 144 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: How did that come to you? You know, it's interesting 145 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: that play in this place share something in common. They 146 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: came out of despair. They both came out of trying 147 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: to write myself out of a kind of real sense 148 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: of despondency and loss. And to the extent you want 149 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: to talk about it, what was the despondency Back in 150 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:10,959 Speaker 1: I had been working on a play for a long 151 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: time that was eventually became a play called A Fair Country, 152 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: but at the time it was called Dutch Landscape. And 153 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 1: I worked on it impossible play to do when you're young, 154 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: about growing up. Did it at the Taper in Los 155 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 1: Angeles and I lost the play. I actually lost it, 156 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: you know, in rehearsal and development through nobody's fault, you know, 157 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: certainly not Gordon Davidson's who directed it. If anybody was 158 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: at fault, if you can even use that word because 159 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: it's it's theater, it was me. I was just in 160 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: despair over how did I let this happen to me. 161 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: I used to work at Book Soup in Hollywood, and 162 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: I borrowed the office above Book Soup to try and 163 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: figure out. You know, I was no longer working there, 164 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: So I was sitting up in this office above the store, 165 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 1: and I was surrounded by books, and I thought, oh, yeah, 166 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: I've read all of you. I've read you, you, you, you, you, you, you, 167 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: and none of you did me any good whatsoever. I 168 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: don't know how to fight. First line of substance fires. 169 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: Look at all these books. The play is about learning 170 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: how to fight and articulating the things you need, articulating 171 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: the ways in which you have to express yourself in 172 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: order to somehow achieve a kind of victory that goes 173 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: beyond words what scias victory. Isaac doesn't really have a 174 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: victory in an odd kind of way. He goes down 175 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 1: with his own ship. But he's unyielding. And I think 176 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: I tried to learn how to be unyielding, and writing 177 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 1: that play it didn't do me much good. Why well, 178 00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: because life is life and plays or plays, and you 179 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: can't actually learned that much by writing them. You have 180 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: to live. Do you find that in the ensuing years 181 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: you wind up going up against things that just crush you, right, 182 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 1: they crush you. I realized that I'm not going to 183 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:18,119 Speaker 1: compare battles with television networks with going through the Holocaust. 184 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: But on the other hand, the Isaac character, there are 185 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 1: some people who they are just incapable of the happiness 186 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: that leads to real intimacy because there's something that just 187 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 1: cannot get over. I think it's very true, totally true 188 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 1: of that character. And in his case, he has very 189 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: little choice. He's locked in battle with this melancholia that 190 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: won't lift, which I think people don't have a real 191 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: honest understanding about. They don't know what it's like to 192 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: be betrayed on like the ninth level, something really hideous. 193 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: I think despair is the dimensions of one's despair are 194 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: so difficult, called to quantify, so difficult to paint, so 195 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: difficult to expose, and it's such a huge subject. Certainly, 196 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: other desert cities is steeped in despair. You know, you 197 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: said talking about network battles, But I had I sort of, 198 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: you know, was ejected from my one adventure and television 199 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: up to that point, I was creating brothers and sisters, 200 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: and it was a very unhappy, very difficult experience for me. 201 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: And again at the end of that thing, I sort 202 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: of I came back east, you know, after having been 203 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: west for a little bit. And what was the first 204 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: thing you wrote after? About? There are three plays in 205 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: my drawer because I had forgotten how to write that. 206 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: This is the thing I think about with other desert 207 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: cities is it's the play where I learned. I taught 208 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: myself how to write again because I was so used 209 00:13:56,280 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: to writing to please people. What happened with ABC, well, 210 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: first of all, networks being what they are, the people 211 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: who commissioned the piece and who are invested in putting 212 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: it on the air end up leaving. And so you're 213 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: left with a kind of in a kind of parents 214 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: and not necessarily particularly caring supportive step parents slightly bewildered. 215 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: I mean, the guy who really ran the entertainment division 216 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: kept saying, I I don't understand why anybody watches this show, 217 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: and I would say the same thing, except for different reasons. 218 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: I mean, it was really it was bizarre. She would 219 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: call me and scream at me. I actually said to me, 220 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: I don't know who you think you're talking to, And 221 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: I would you know, politely hang up and say I'm 222 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: I'm leaving the conversation now. At one point I said 223 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: to them, don't you feel like there's something wrong? I mean, 224 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: look at this amazing cast, Sally Field, Callista Flockhart, Rachel Griffith, 225 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: Ron Riffkin, Patty Wedding, on and on and on. Don't 226 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: you think there should be some higher intentions, some integrity, 227 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: maybe some I don't know, do you want do you 228 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: want to try and get an Emmy or something. I 229 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: didn't even know how to speak their language, but I 230 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: thought Emmy would be something that they would recognize. And 231 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: a literal quote from the head of the studio was, no, 232 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: I don't need awards. The ratings are good enough for me. 233 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: This happens in the first season, the first season, and 234 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: you are gone after how many seasons after the first season, 235 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: So it was all this takes place in one television season, 236 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: one nine month period. Yes, you know, someone comes in 237 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: to sort of manage the show, and they're beholden to 238 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: the network in the studio, as they should be. And 239 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: I'm beholden to an aesthetic and I'm an idiot for 240 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: being beholden to in a sthetic. But you know, people 241 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: love the show, and it went on for another four 242 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: seasons after that. You maintained some participation in the show. 243 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: You know, how is that possible? You created the show, 244 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: You are the creator of the show. Correct. There was 245 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: a writer's strike, and there was a force masure clause 246 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: forced masore being active God. The studio network could use 247 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: that clause to nullify any contract they had with anybody 248 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: they like. I had been very vocal during that strike 249 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: about what I considered at the time the very unhealthy 250 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: dynamic between the producers and the writer's guild, and I 251 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: wrote about this way too much. What was it? What 252 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: was the name of those uh blogs you wrote on 253 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: huffing impost leaving l A. Yeah, a lot of them 254 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: were very insanely painful and actually lead to again other 255 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: desert cities. The girl in the play can't stop writing 256 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: about things that affected other people, and she wants some truth. Yeah, 257 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: and then she's left with the debris. So it all 258 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: came out of you know, I pick up the phone 259 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: one day and I see that, you know, people's deals 260 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: are being canceled, but there are people who haven't made anything. 261 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: And I suddenly I'm I was gone, And I even 262 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: before that wasn't sure to what extent I was ever 263 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 1: going to go back. I knew I would have some involvement, 264 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 1: but then I had none whatsoever. But for me, what's curious, 265 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: And again you don't have to answer this question. I'm 266 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 1: just curious, which is, as the creator of a television show, 267 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: there is typically a windfall for that person as the 268 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,479 Speaker 1: creative that show. If that was taken away from you 269 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 1: through some contractual slide of hand, where did all that go? 270 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 1: All went to the network? They took it all for themselves. 271 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: I can't speak to that. I'm just not going to 272 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 1: talk about it, but I am going to say that 273 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: I think it was the best thing that ever happened 274 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: to me because it would have been dirty money, right. 275 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: I think it would have destroyed me in some way too. 276 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: I have no pride in the thing that made me wealthy. 277 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: Would have made me terribly uncomfortable, and I would have 278 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: felt that I had betrayed whatever promise or potential I'd 279 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,239 Speaker 1: set up for myself as a writer that if I 280 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 1: was going to survive at it, it couldn't be compromised. 281 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin, and I'm talking with playwright John 282 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 1: Robin Bates more in a minute. This is Alec Baldwin 283 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: and you're listening to Here's the thing. The idea for 284 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: John Robin Bates's new play, Other Desert Cities came to 285 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: him when he was back on the East Coast. I 286 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:05,640 Speaker 1: was sitting at a beach with my notebook, and I'm 287 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,640 Speaker 1: thinking about how to get back into it and what 288 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: matters to me, and I just sort of self destructed 289 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: at Brothers and Sisters. I had written about personal events 290 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: that implicated other people in some way that I hadn't 291 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,719 Speaker 1: taken into account the consequences. And I found myself very 292 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: much like the character in my play played by Beth 293 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 1: Marvel and Rachel Griffith at various points, a writer who 294 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: is a dangerous creature. And I had a note to 295 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:48,160 Speaker 1: myself play about daughter of a famous family who writes 296 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: a book about her growing up in this family, something 297 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 1: like that, the danger of telling the truth that turns 298 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 1: out to be a lie. And at that moment, this 299 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 1: lady of a certain age walked by me, and she 300 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: looked to me like um Pat Buckley, the old doyane 301 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: of New York conservative politics, the wife of Bill Buckley. 302 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: Bill Buckley and I had lunch with her once and 303 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: found her to be charming and engaged. And this woman 304 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: walked by me on this beach with her hat and 305 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: in a one piece bathing suit. I immediately felt the 306 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 1: mother in that play. And I suddenly remembered Old California 307 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: the way it was when I was a kid, and 308 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: we were just in the throes of an election at 309 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: the time, too were about to be and the Republicans 310 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 1: of certainly of that period and even more so today, 311 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: we're very confusing to me because they didn't seem recognizable 312 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: to me as having a coherent, cohesive coach and argument 313 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,040 Speaker 1: for their principal positions, which had to be Prince a 314 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,239 Speaker 1: Bold in some way. The play just came together in 315 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:10,159 Speaker 1: one fell swoop, Old California Conservatives, the old hollywel System, 316 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 1: Reaga Nights. I even remembered I'd gone to high school 317 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: with I think, the daughter of John Gavin, and I thought, 318 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,479 Speaker 1: you know, because I love Touch of Evil, and there, 319 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: I think, isn't John Gavin. No, he's not in Touch 320 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: of Evil. He's in Psycho case in all these movies, 321 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: and I thought about he was the ambassador to Mexica. 322 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: That's right, as is the Stacy Keach character and my play, 323 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: and I thought about your characters based on John Gavin 324 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:41,400 Speaker 1: to some extent. They're all these archetypes. At the back 325 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: of all this, of course, there's also Joe Mentello, who 326 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: you know, we're no longer a couple, but he's my family, 327 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: my best friend, and you see, being a couple of 328 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 1: one year two thousand and two. So it was a 329 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: while and he kept saying to me, with all possible respect, 330 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:01,439 Speaker 1: nobody's waiting for the next Robbie Bates play. And you know, 331 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: these are chilling words because I have so much to 332 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: say and it's not coming out. My equivalent of that. 333 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 1: As my agent said to me, he goes, it's not 334 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: that these people don't want to hire you because they 335 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: don't like you. He says, they don't want to hire 336 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 1: you because they don't think of you at all. Jesus, Well, 337 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: it's terrible, because the worst thing that can happen to 338 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: an artist, I'm invisible. I no longer matter for me. 339 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: Writing plays has always been very tricky. I don't know 340 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: a lot, I don't have a lot to say. I 341 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,959 Speaker 1: reach things very slowly, and I I sometimes it seems 342 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: facile and easy, and to me, some of the times 343 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: my thoughts and my sort of expressed opinions in place 344 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: seem hollow or naive, even because I know they're deeper 345 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: truths always to be found and that I'm But don't 346 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: you think that seeking them and being aware of that 347 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: makes you more likely to find it than anybody? You 348 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 1: didn't go to college? Did you know why you wanted 349 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: educating yourself? I wish I had gone to college. It 350 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: was a depressed and unsettled kid. And why I don't 351 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: I think I wasn't at peace with probably any element 352 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,439 Speaker 1: of who I was, whether it was a sort of 353 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 1: nascent intellectual or sort of pre expressive homosexual kid. Or 354 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: where variously l A from you were born? Where in 355 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: l A and you lived seven then Brazil for three 356 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: years in Rio, and then South Africa for six and 357 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,160 Speaker 1: a half years until I was eighteen. And your father 358 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: was in the condensed milk business. My father worked for 359 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 1: a giant multinational carnation milk. Yeah, it was a condensed 360 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: milk business. So l A, Brazil, South Africa, and then 361 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 1: back to when you finally get back to la how 362 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: old are you so? High School's over? I just finished 363 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: high school. I'd sort of lost time through all. The 364 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: trial was high school in South Africa, Like I couldn't 365 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 1: get used to things like cricket and corporal punishment. You know, 366 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: you get cane for like not doing well on a 367 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: spelling test, literally caned. And I think, actually I was 368 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:24,199 Speaker 1: so busy trying to be sly and charming that I 369 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,919 Speaker 1: forgot how to be me. That I think led me 370 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:33,400 Speaker 1: to rebel against learning itself. So I was sort of 371 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: interested in the few things. I was interested in literature history, 372 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: but I wouldn't apply myself to anything except escape, and 373 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,159 Speaker 1: part of escape meant not going to college. I was 374 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:50,400 Speaker 1: really lonely, and I I kind of became a depressed kid, 375 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: and that manifests itself. You can say, I think I 376 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,880 Speaker 1: did you know you were gay? Then yes, I definitely 377 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: knew that. I knew that add to your depression didn't 378 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 1: make you feel more isolated. It wasn't proactive the gay 379 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 1: community there in talking about getting caned. Yeah, well, um, 380 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: I think my parents, who loved me very much, were 381 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 1: distracted by their own terrors. There are certain families that 382 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 1: are born in terror and live in terror. Um conceived 383 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 1: in terror. I need you to write a player for me. 384 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: I want to be called conceived in terror? Go ahead, well, 385 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: I mean death of a salesman? Is is a family 386 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 1: that lives in terror? You were how old when you 387 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:49,199 Speaker 1: arrived in Durban? Ten? The eight years? Yeah, I was 388 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 1: there almost eight years critical time, ten years or so 389 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: all of your real back half of your childhood, your 390 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 1: teenage years especially you are in Durban. Yes, it was 391 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,879 Speaker 1: seventeen or something when we left. But you had finished 392 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: the high school program. No, no, I finished it in 393 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: l A where Beverly Hills High. What was that like? I? 394 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: You know, was the only kid I knew who rode 395 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: their bike to school because everybody else's parents had given 396 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 1: them a fiat literally, yeah or something. Who are your friends? Then? 397 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: Who did you become friends with? Anyone? Oh? Yeah? In fact, 398 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 1: Jenny Livingston went on to make Paris Is Burning, great documentary, 399 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 1: Tina Landau, great theater director. Gina Gershawn my oldest friend 400 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: from high school. We were in place together in the 401 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: drama department. So I became friends with and I say 402 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: this with real respect and love with fellow freaks. How 403 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: are you feeling about yourself and about life that last 404 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: year in Beverly Hills. I think I was scared to 405 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: death still. I mean, it was just a new form 406 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: of foreignness, but it had the pattern of something very 407 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,679 Speaker 1: familiar to me. But you know, I remember being taken 408 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: to a party really early on, and I had developed 409 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: a kind of weird eye beforehand for art. I thought 410 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: maybe I was going to be a painter or an artist. Story. 411 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: And I walk into this house and there is a 412 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: giant David Hackney and next to it is a giant Mother. Well, 413 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,400 Speaker 1: I'm standing in front of this giant painting that's famous 414 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: that I've looked at in books Thames and Huts and 415 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,120 Speaker 1: art books while I was in Durban at the Art 416 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: Library of the University. I do the world was just 417 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,479 Speaker 1: very real and different, and it was easier to like 418 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,640 Speaker 1: have sex, and it was easier to to function. Were 419 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 1: you writing? I guess I was sort of writing, Yeah, 420 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: what were you writing? I was writing really bad short 421 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:54,400 Speaker 1: stories about alienated Paul Bull's kids adrift in foreign countries, 422 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: which is basically tell you that youruth still what I'm doing. 423 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 1: It just looks slightly the wallpay ris pretty or Now 424 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 1: where were you living at that? I was living um 425 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: on friends sofas like the parents of children. I went 426 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: to high school. I was I was just a freak, 427 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: you know, And I was at odds with my family 428 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: at the time, you know, and I had escaped and 429 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: it was just a nightmare. How do we get from 430 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: there to fair country? Gordon Davidson, you know in Pinocchio 431 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: where he falls in with actors. I'm walking around. I 432 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: ran into this girl I knew from high school. She said, 433 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 1: what are you doing? And I'm sort of looking for 434 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: a job. I think I'm starving to death. I'm not sure, 435 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: she said to me, And I should have known. She said, well, 436 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: my father just fired me. He needs he has a 437 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: new assistant. And I was like, well, what does he 438 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: do and she said, oh, he's a film producer. Who 439 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: was the producer. This is great guy, and he was. 440 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,239 Speaker 1: He a working producer. I'm only asking for a name. 441 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: My first day at the office, he says to me, 442 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,719 Speaker 1: whatever you do, answer the phones, but never pick up 443 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: the phone. And I was like, I don't even know 444 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: what that means. And he said, you'll do fine. And 445 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: he had a gang of cronies, all of whom had 446 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 1: contempt for the studio system and had worked around the 447 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: edges of it, or in it had done well, fallen 448 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: out of favor, usually had destroyed themselves through my favorite thing, 449 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 1: their own ambivalence. I found myself at home for the 450 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: first time in my life win the nest of scorpions. 451 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: Yes I did, I found myself. I said this, I know, yeah, 452 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: because nobody is trying to pass. It's a den of 453 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: thieves here. It was still the days of speaker phone, 454 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: and they would have fights. They had a tower on 455 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: Sunset Boulevard. They had a nest of rooms in a tower, 456 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: and they would be fighting with each other and then 457 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: they would suddenly be a pause. Someone would say, jeez, 458 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 1: if you could see what I see right now, that 459 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 1: girl walking down Sunset she is so beautiful. The fight 460 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: was over nothing meant any That's right. One of the 461 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 1: masks for a glass of water is in my first 462 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: few weeks there two what do I know. You would 463 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: go to the sink, bring a glass of waters, spit 464 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: it out like practically on me, and say this isn't water, 465 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: and I would say, yes, it's water. What are you 466 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: talking about? That's water. It's I want professional water. And 467 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: the whole time became about professional water. How long did 468 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: that last three four like, uh four some years. No, No, 469 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: but it got you the scorpions that's looking down at 470 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: the women's asses for four years. And I would copy 471 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: everything down. And so at the same time I started 472 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: hanging around with these actors, there was a sort of 473 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: an equally desperate contingent of avant gardists odd playwrights out 474 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: there in l A, living on the fringes of everything. 475 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: And so I lived between these two worlds, one of 476 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: which was sort of drunk and druggy, and the other 477 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: was insane. Megalt Noma, I can't say the word megalomaniacal. 478 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 1: Thank you, Meg, I'm here for maniacal. You just think 479 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: of the words and I'll say that, thank you. I 480 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 1: think we're gonna be in each other. I know. It's 481 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: like Bluetooth, the technology. I had to come up with 482 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: a play for one of these sort of workshop things 483 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 1: that we would put together, and one of these playwrights 484 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: said to me, so, what's your play, and me bulsh 485 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: fitting which is something I just did. I said, yeah, 486 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: it's called ms Lansky Zelinski on the spot. I just 487 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: came up with the next on those guys, Yeah, I said, yeah, 488 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: it's called Ki just based on the guys in the tower, 489 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 1: so it's just them talking and I put all my 490 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: notes together and we did it and it was the 491 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: first one you wrote. Yeah, now you're on Broadway. The 492 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: show is a big success. People have said wonderful things 493 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 1: about the show. I worshiped Stacy. I mean, I work. 494 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,719 Speaker 1: He is one of the great wild mustangs of of 495 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: all theater history. And in this piece, it is that 496 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: Reagan crowd, it is that Bush crowd, it is that 497 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 1: blue blood Republican crowd, the conservative crowd. Stacey captures that. 498 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: I wrote the part for him. Do you wrote the part? Oh? Yeah, 499 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: I knew that there was nobody who could capture that better. Ever, 500 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: we had worked together before, he had done ten Unknowns 501 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: at the Taper, and it was a revelation because the 502 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: character has to have a dignity as well. Yeah, Stacy 503 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:05,479 Speaker 1: brings in the guy. We sit there and go, I 504 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 1: get it. I would have followed him. I wanted him around. 505 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,719 Speaker 1: He's great and I love him so much. You know, 506 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,719 Speaker 1: he and Joe didn't know each other, and so they 507 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: got on the phone before rehearsal and Stacy says to Joe, 508 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: you know, I've worked with Robbie before. We worked together before, 509 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 1: and I know him well, and do you do you 510 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: know him? If you worked with him? And how well 511 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: do you know him? And I kind of know him? 512 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: And we lived together for twelve years. But that's Stacy. 513 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:46,239 Speaker 1: He's like, oh damn. The great thing about Stacy is 514 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 1: he brings centuries of actors honor onto that stage with him, 515 00:33:55,720 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: the honor of honoring fellow actors, the honor of Snake, 516 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 1: the privilege of being an actor, the privilege of being 517 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: in the theater, not missing a single show in his seventies, 518 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,399 Speaker 1: the rituals of it, the privilege of working in the 519 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,359 Speaker 1: theater is the thing that has been of everything that's 520 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 1: happened to me. Just the great honor of being in 521 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 1: the American theater in some capacity is what I'm left 522 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 1: with that it's a privilege to be in it. I'm 523 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 1: lucky to have found my way back to it. What's 524 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: institutionalized and working in the theater is a hunt for 525 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: truth that doesn't exist in the movie business, in the television. 526 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,320 Speaker 1: Do you know what you're doing next? Are you onto 527 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: something now that you're writing? Who knows? I can't tell yet. 528 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 1: I just can't tell you scribbling. Yeah, I'm supposed to 529 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: be doing things. I'm a mess at all times. John 530 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,800 Speaker 1: Robin Bates says he feels like more of a grown 531 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: up as a flight When he started out in l A, 532 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:07,320 Speaker 1: he was couch surfing at the homes of his friend's parents. 533 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: Things are different Now I have a home, I grow stuff, 534 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 1: I'm responsible to people. Have a dog. I have a 535 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 1: dogs three what's the dog's name, Trip, Trip, Yeah, he 536 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,360 Speaker 1: has three legs. He's a great dog. This is Alec 537 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing.