WEBVTT - Rewind: Robbie Robertson 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:31.836 Pushkin, Pushkin. Hey everyone, this is a bit of a 0:00:31.916 --> 0:00:35.996 special episode of Broken Record, not just because it features 0:00:36.076 --> 0:00:39.276 Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, and Bruce Headlam all at once, 0:00:39.756 --> 0:00:42.516 but because it happened at the spiritual home Shangri La. 0:00:43.196 --> 0:00:48.756 Of today's guest, that's the band's Robbie Robertson, who reminisces 0:00:48.796 --> 0:00:52.156 about converting a home in Malibu into the now legendary 0:00:52.236 --> 0:00:56.196 recording studio run by Rick, before moving on to discussing 0:00:56.196 --> 0:00:59.356 the band's early days as backup for a rockabilly singer 0:00:59.516 --> 0:01:02.756 when they were known as the Hawks, and they also 0:01:02.796 --> 0:01:07.476 discussed Robbie's longtime work with director Martin Scorsese, which earned 0:01:07.516 --> 0:01:11.716 him an Oscar nomination at this year's Academy Awards. We 0:01:11.756 --> 0:01:14.116 should also note that if you liked this episode, there's 0:01:14.196 --> 0:01:18.276 a new documentary called Once We're Brothers, Robbie Robertson and 0:01:18.316 --> 0:01:20.596 the Band that will be coming out in theaters on 0:01:20.716 --> 0:01:27.556 February twenty first. This is Broken Record liner notes for 0:01:27.636 --> 0:01:28.516 the digital Age. 0:01:28.716 --> 0:01:29.636 I'm justin Mischmer. 0:01:30.636 --> 0:01:35.076 Here's Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, and Bruce Headlam from Shangri 0:01:35.156 --> 0:01:38.796 La speaking with the studios architect Robbie Robertson. 0:01:40.116 --> 0:01:43.476 We had a fantastic day the other day here, and 0:01:43.716 --> 0:01:47.956 when I was telling the stories of Shangri Law, you know, 0:01:48.156 --> 0:01:50.716 the stories. 0:01:49.356 --> 0:01:54.476 He envisioned this place and built it and it was unbelievable. 0:01:53.956 --> 0:01:57.636 And it was mine. You know. The other guys in 0:01:57.676 --> 0:02:02.996 the band thought this was a good idea. But from 0:02:03.116 --> 0:02:07.316 Big Pink to Sammy Davis Junior's house to the Wars, 0:02:07.876 --> 0:02:12.876 we made these wrecks in not in studios and other 0:02:14.076 --> 0:02:16.876 places where there was an atmosphere and that could be 0:02:16.996 --> 0:02:22.596 our atmosphere, fear and our sound, you know, and everything 0:02:23.636 --> 0:02:29.156 was not on somebody else's way of doing somebody else's wavelength. 0:02:29.876 --> 0:02:31.876 You know. You would go into the studio and there'd 0:02:31.916 --> 0:02:34.556 be these used to be these Union guys, and they'd 0:02:34.596 --> 0:02:37.236 be like, oh, it looks like it's lunchtime. We're like, 0:02:37.276 --> 0:02:40.116 what are you talking about lunchtime? Where were you know? 0:02:40.156 --> 0:02:43.316 We're about to do something, and and they'd be there 0:02:43.356 --> 0:02:46.356 and I'd be like, I don't know, this should be louder. 0:02:46.676 --> 0:02:49.796 Don't touch that, you know, So I don't want that. 0:02:49.996 --> 0:02:53.436 I don't I don't want to do that. So I said, 0:02:53.476 --> 0:02:55.756 what we're going to do is we're going to make 0:02:56.916 --> 0:03:03.556 these clubhouse, these workshop, these studio things. That is our 0:03:03.636 --> 0:03:08.636 world and our music, our sound. And whether it was 0:03:08.716 --> 0:03:12.076 true or or not, I believed that it gave it 0:03:12.476 --> 0:03:16.196 a character and a thing, which it did for better 0:03:16.316 --> 0:03:16.756 or worse. 0:03:16.956 --> 0:03:19.716 What's interesting about that too, is that now it's become 0:03:19.756 --> 0:03:25.356 more the norm. Yeah, that said, when you did it technologically, 0:03:25.476 --> 0:03:27.956 it was much more difficult to do. Like, when you 0:03:27.996 --> 0:03:31.356 did it you needed big studio equipment. Like today people 0:03:31.356 --> 0:03:33.116 can do it on their laptop, so they could it's 0:03:33.156 --> 0:03:36.396 easier to make that jump. But when you did it, 0:03:36.916 --> 0:03:40.156 the infrastructure involved was not easy to pull off. 0:03:40.796 --> 0:03:48.116 It was unheard of except for Les Paul. Les Paul said, 0:03:48.156 --> 0:03:51.836 I'm going to build a studio at my house, and 0:03:51.916 --> 0:03:55.476 I'm gonna build an echo chamber into the side of 0:03:55.516 --> 0:03:58.676 this hill, right and he was going to do all 0:03:58.716 --> 0:04:02.036 of these things. I had an argument the other day 0:04:02.076 --> 0:04:05.796 with Van Morrison about being able to do this kind 0:04:05.876 --> 0:04:09.996 of thing, and because he was saying, I only like 0:04:10.076 --> 0:04:12.716 to play live just with my band, and I go 0:04:12.836 --> 0:04:15.356 in and we sing and they play this song and 0:04:15.436 --> 0:04:19.076 we kept capture a moment. We've all done that. I 0:04:19.516 --> 0:04:22.196 know it really well. I played ricks some music the 0:04:22.236 --> 0:04:26.236 other day. That was all like first or second takes, 0:04:26.316 --> 0:04:27.236 and it was you know. 0:04:27.556 --> 0:04:30.676 Songs you've heard, Yeah, songs you've heard a lot. 0:04:30.996 --> 0:04:34.596 So anyway, Savannah saying, it's got to be live and 0:04:34.636 --> 0:04:36.556 it's got to be bah and that's the way it 0:04:36.636 --> 0:04:38.756 used to be and it's the way it Choob and 0:04:38.836 --> 0:04:43.916 I said, well, what about Les Paul. He overdubbed, he 0:04:44.036 --> 0:04:47.276 made things, he played on top of himself, he double 0:04:47.396 --> 0:04:51.516 track things, He invented it. So so Van says, I know, 0:04:51.636 --> 0:04:52.596 but he was magic. 0:04:54.916 --> 0:04:57.556 Wait you made you did? You recorded at Sammy Davis 0:04:57.636 --> 0:04:58.276 Junior's house. 0:04:59.476 --> 0:05:06.436 Yes, we made the band album, the Brown Album. Uh. 0:05:06.476 --> 0:05:10.196 And we rented Sammy Davis Junior's house in the Hollywood 0:05:10.476 --> 0:05:14.076 it's up Sunset Plaza up in the Hollywood Hills, and 0:05:14.116 --> 0:05:17.476 we all stayed in the house with the family. And 0:05:17.516 --> 0:05:21.396 we turned the pool house where he used to have 0:05:21.476 --> 0:05:24.756 his parties with Frank Sinatra and the rat Back and 0:05:24.996 --> 0:05:28.996 all these people. We turned that pool house into a studio. 0:05:29.996 --> 0:05:34.716 And the record company thought this was the worst idea 0:05:34.796 --> 0:05:38.756 they ever heard. They thought this was ridiculous. He said, 0:05:38.836 --> 0:05:42.716 drive fifteen minutes. We have the best studio in the world. 0:05:42.836 --> 0:05:46.996 Here Frank's upper records here right, all of this stuff, 0:05:46.996 --> 0:05:49.276 and I was like, no, no, no, this is a 0:05:49.276 --> 0:05:54.516 different thing. And finally they were like, okay, okay, I 0:05:54.636 --> 0:05:57.436 guess I don't know what you're doing and it's probably 0:05:57.516 --> 0:06:02.876 going to be bad. But didn't show up. Sammy Davis Junior, 0:06:03.356 --> 0:06:06.676 he owned, he still owned the house. He didn't live there. 0:06:07.516 --> 0:06:10.756 I was imagining him like live there, stepping in on 0:06:10.756 --> 0:06:11.836 one of your recordings halls. 0:06:11.876 --> 0:06:17.436 But everything in the house was built lower. You go 0:06:17.516 --> 0:06:21.476 into the bathroom and the sink was down here, and 0:06:21.556 --> 0:06:25.236 it was everything was built to his specifications, you know. 0:06:25.556 --> 0:06:30.676 And and it seemed like this is great, this is 0:06:30.796 --> 0:06:36.076 great Sammy's world, you know, amazing. And so we recorded 0:06:36.076 --> 0:06:40.596 the album there and then we mix it, or we're 0:06:40.636 --> 0:06:43.756 going to mix the record. And there's this guy in 0:06:43.876 --> 0:06:47.156 New York, Tony May was his name, and he had 0:06:47.196 --> 0:06:50.916 mixed the Isley Brothers. It's your thing, do what you 0:06:50.996 --> 0:06:54.276 want to do. So it was such a great sounding record, 0:06:54.596 --> 0:06:57.516 we said, wow, let's see if we can get Tony 0:06:57.596 --> 0:07:00.156 May to mix this. And he worked with Phil Ramone 0:07:00.156 --> 0:07:02.836 and all these people there. So anyway, he comes in 0:07:02.876 --> 0:07:05.716 and he puts up the tapes and everything, and he says, 0:07:07.596 --> 0:07:10.756 these tapes are awful. I'm gonna have to do a 0:07:10.756 --> 0:07:15.956 lot of work on this. And I thought, hmm, I 0:07:15.996 --> 0:07:19.036 don't know if I like that, you know. So anyway, 0:07:19.076 --> 0:07:21.916 he did a mix that was not what I wanted 0:07:21.996 --> 0:07:23.916 at all. It's not the way I heard it at all. 0:07:24.596 --> 0:07:27.916 So anyway, we're like, thanks, Tony, so you you know. 0:07:28.236 --> 0:07:29.156 And and we. 0:07:29.276 --> 0:07:30.796 Saw on which songs are these? 0:07:31.556 --> 0:07:35.196 These were on the band album It was the night 0:07:35.236 --> 0:07:39.676 they drove Old Dixie down up on Crippled Creek, you know, 0:07:39.716 --> 0:07:40.956 Whispering Pines. 0:07:41.196 --> 0:07:42.716 One was wrong with his mixes. 0:07:43.516 --> 0:07:50.076 His mixes were trying to make this slick and bright, 0:07:50.956 --> 0:07:54.916 and there was a woodiness to it. There was a 0:07:55.076 --> 0:07:59.716 muddiness to it that suited the music. It was earthy 0:08:00.396 --> 0:08:04.916 and I wanted that right. But he didn't get the jokes. 0:08:04.956 --> 0:08:08.316 So that was okay. So I went and mixed the 0:08:08.436 --> 0:08:13.956 album with a guy, another guy at the old Jerry 0:08:14.036 --> 0:08:18.116 Ragovoice Hit Factory in New York. This guy mixed the album. 0:08:18.396 --> 0:08:20.396 We mixed at the guys in the band. We were 0:08:20.436 --> 0:08:23.196 all in there moving the faders and got it the 0:08:23.196 --> 0:08:27.556 way that I wanted. So we get it and then 0:08:27.636 --> 0:08:33.196 it's like Okay, the guy, the mastering guy, his name 0:08:33.276 --> 0:08:36.236 is Bob Ludwig. You got to get him to master 0:08:36.636 --> 0:08:40.076 your record. So we take the record to Bob Ludwig 0:08:40.996 --> 0:08:44.116 and he puts it, you know, he puts on the 0:08:44.156 --> 0:08:48.316 tape of the mixes and everything, and he says, oh boy, 0:08:48.956 --> 0:08:52.476 He's like Tony May. He's like, I don't know. I'm 0:08:52.516 --> 0:08:55.756 gonna try. I'll see if I can fix this or 0:08:55.876 --> 0:09:01.556 save this. And I'm like, hmm, that's really depressing. So 0:09:01.596 --> 0:09:04.116 I go and I tell the other guys. I said, 0:09:04.196 --> 0:09:06.476 I don't know, we might have done this all wrong. 0:09:06.596 --> 0:09:10.956 Everybody's saying it's it's terror carrible and that, you know. 0:09:11.676 --> 0:09:14.796 So the next I don't know. A couple of days later, 0:09:15.716 --> 0:09:21.036 Bob Ludwick caused me and he says, I am such 0:09:21.116 --> 0:09:27.516 an idiot. I am such a fool. I didn't get it. 0:09:28.276 --> 0:09:32.356 I so get it. This is maybe the most interesting 0:09:32.516 --> 0:09:36.596 record I've ever heard. He said, I am so sorry. 0:09:37.196 --> 0:09:41.196 And he told me, Bob Ludwick, he said, I made 0:09:41.236 --> 0:09:47.076 the same mistake when sly Stone brought me there's a 0:09:47.196 --> 0:09:50.516 riot going on. I thought that that was a big 0:09:50.596 --> 0:09:55.316 mistake too, and he said, and then I've realized it 0:09:55.636 --> 0:09:58.156 you know, I had to accept it the way that 0:09:58.236 --> 0:10:04.836 I accepted your record. And so I was like, because 0:10:04.956 --> 0:10:07.516 I thought he was right, you know, And if he 0:10:07.556 --> 0:10:09.516 had a stayed with that, I don't know what would 0:10:09.516 --> 0:10:13.156 have happened. So he you know, he mastered and it 0:10:13.196 --> 0:10:17.676 hardly did anything to it in the mastering, and it 0:10:17.796 --> 0:10:21.476 was just one of those things. It was a homemade thing. 0:10:21.716 --> 0:10:25.836 It did have that character to it, and that was 0:10:26.036 --> 0:10:28.316 part of its specialness. 0:10:28.476 --> 0:10:31.276 He came very close to ruining two of the great masterpieces. 0:10:33.836 --> 0:10:36.556 Yeah, well, I do remember. 0:10:36.556 --> 0:10:39.756 Actually the first songs he wrote, I goes for Ronnie Hawkins. 0:10:40.876 --> 0:10:41.556 What were they like? 0:10:41.676 --> 0:10:41.836 Well? 0:10:41.956 --> 0:10:42.596 What were they? 0:10:43.516 --> 0:10:46.276 Well? One of the reasons he hired me. I wrote 0:10:46.276 --> 0:10:48.396 a couple of songs for him when I was fifteen 0:10:48.516 --> 0:10:52.436 years old because I heard him say that I need 0:10:52.436 --> 0:10:55.596 some songs, and I was trying to figure out how 0:10:55.636 --> 0:11:00.396 I could crash into this world of Southern rock and roll. 0:11:01.316 --> 0:11:05.596 That's the real thing. These guys are from the holy 0:11:05.756 --> 0:11:08.796 land in the South where this music grows out of 0:11:08.796 --> 0:11:12.636 the ground. So I've got this whole fantasy in my 0:11:12.916 --> 0:11:17.556 mind and everything, and these guys can do it. And 0:11:17.596 --> 0:11:21.116 they were all from the South, and they sounded that 0:11:21.156 --> 0:11:24.596 way and all of it. It's just okay. And I'm 0:11:24.676 --> 0:11:28.276 up in Canada, so you know what I mean. It 0:11:28.276 --> 0:11:30.996 feels like such a distance and I'm trying to figure 0:11:31.076 --> 0:11:34.756 out a way. How can I become a part of this. 0:11:35.476 --> 0:11:39.356 How can I get into this club and they'll accept me. 0:11:39.676 --> 0:11:42.116 So I hear them say I need some So I 0:11:42.196 --> 0:11:43.996 go off and I write a couple of songs. 0:11:44.156 --> 0:11:45.796 Where are you when you write these songs? 0:11:46.196 --> 0:11:48.436 In Toronto, in Cabbage Town? 0:11:48.756 --> 0:11:49.556 You're in high school? 0:11:50.196 --> 0:11:52.116 Yeah, I was fifteen. 0:11:53.556 --> 0:11:55.436 Did you know anything about writing songs? 0:11:55.636 --> 0:12:00.436 Well, yeah, I had written some songs already and this 0:12:00.636 --> 0:12:03.676 was just something you just kind of boosted your game up. 0:12:03.916 --> 0:12:06.276 You know. As we go along, certain things happen and 0:12:06.276 --> 0:12:08.996 it makes you think, Okay, now I got to take 0:12:09.236 --> 0:12:11.436 on this challenge and if I can, if I can 0:12:11.556 --> 0:12:15.636 win that war, will I'll now be this will be 0:12:15.756 --> 0:12:18.436 my starting place instead of your something. 0:12:18.476 --> 0:12:20.396 What did you hear Ronnie Hawkins say he needed some 0:12:20.476 --> 0:12:21.036 new songs? 0:12:21.476 --> 0:12:25.516 Well, we I had a band called Robbie and the Robots, 0:12:26.356 --> 0:12:31.556 and we were an opening, you know, act for Ronnie 0:12:31.596 --> 0:12:34.516 Hawkins and the Hawks on a weekend and a dance 0:12:35.116 --> 0:12:37.796 out in the West End of Toronto at an arena. 0:12:38.796 --> 0:12:41.356 So we went on and played. 0:12:41.676 --> 0:12:44.436 You're fifteen Yeah for Ronnie Hawkins. 0:12:44.236 --> 0:12:47.756 And Ronnie and the other guys. They thought, Wow, these 0:12:47.836 --> 0:12:51.476 kids are not bad, you know, they're not too bad, 0:12:51.956 --> 0:12:54.676 and that was all I needed to hear. So I 0:12:54.716 --> 0:12:56.996 was just trying to get some of it. So I 0:12:57.116 --> 0:13:00.276 was hanging around, and then they went on and killed it. 0:13:00.956 --> 0:13:04.996 I had never heard anything like that before, that far, 0:13:05.476 --> 0:13:09.116 that up close. You know, I just heard other bands. 0:13:09.876 --> 0:13:14.396 I'm from Toronto, right and or whatever. This was something 0:13:14.716 --> 0:13:17.316 and you had to get into clubs to really hear 0:13:17.436 --> 0:13:19.676 these people play. But they were doing a thing on 0:13:19.676 --> 0:13:22.956 a weekend. So I see them play and I'm like, 0:13:23.116 --> 0:13:30.236 this is unbelievable. A real rockabilly band, right like Carl 0:13:30.316 --> 0:13:34.636 Perkins and you know Elvis and you know Roy Orbison, 0:13:34.756 --> 0:13:37.676 like you're right out of that school. So I think, 0:13:38.076 --> 0:13:41.076 and the energy and the excitement and the music, and 0:13:41.196 --> 0:13:44.956 Ronnie was an amazing showm in it and he always 0:13:45.036 --> 0:13:48.676 wanted to have killer musicians and they were great. So 0:13:48.956 --> 0:13:53.076 after they played, I was just hanging around trying to 0:13:53.116 --> 0:13:55.716 get some of it to rub off on me, you know, 0:13:55.796 --> 0:13:59.356 some of that musicality. And so I was trying to 0:13:59.396 --> 0:14:03.796 be helpful and hanging around, and then I, you know, 0:14:04.956 --> 0:14:08.836 and and they ended up liking me, and they said, 0:14:09.876 --> 0:14:11.996 all right, you know at the hotel, why don't you 0:14:11.996 --> 0:14:14.516 come by? And I would just try to try to 0:14:14.556 --> 0:14:18.636 make myself useful, you know, and somebody needed a new 0:14:18.716 --> 0:14:22.316 string put on the guitar or whatever anything, you know. 0:14:23.236 --> 0:14:28.476 So I I was hanging around, and I was hanging 0:14:28.516 --> 0:14:31.836 around as much as I could without getting in the way. 0:14:32.836 --> 0:14:36.076 And one day I hear Ronnie Hawk and say, I 0:14:36.116 --> 0:14:37.836 got to make a new record, and I need some 0:14:37.916 --> 0:14:41.796 new songs, you know. So I went home and I 0:14:41.836 --> 0:14:45.356 wrote two songs and brought him back to him, said 0:14:45.396 --> 0:14:48.076 I wrote a couple of songs. I don't know if 0:14:48.076 --> 0:14:52.276 they're you know what you're looking for. So we played 0:14:52.316 --> 0:14:57.316 him the played the new songs, and he said, damn son, 0:14:58.636 --> 0:15:00.116 I'm going to record both of those. 0:15:00.316 --> 0:15:01.396 What was the best of them? 0:15:01.596 --> 0:15:04.716 They weren't any good, you know. I was just trying 0:15:04.716 --> 0:15:08.396 to get in the door. So so I wrote this 0:15:08.636 --> 0:15:13.196 song called someone like You. I think didn't Adele steal 0:15:13.316 --> 0:15:19.796 that title from me on the so anyway, so he 0:15:19.916 --> 0:15:24.156 records the songs, he records, the album comes back to Toronto. 0:15:24.236 --> 0:15:27.396 They're playing at a club, the l Cock Door in Toronto. 0:15:28.156 --> 0:15:31.196 Brings me the album with the songs on it, and 0:15:31.236 --> 0:15:34.956 I'm like cutting my finger trying to get this album 0:15:35.116 --> 0:15:38.436 opened to look and see it on the song credits 0:15:38.516 --> 0:15:42.796 that everything. There's the two songs, and there's my name, 0:15:43.996 --> 0:15:48.876 but it's my name and somebody else's name. And I said, 0:15:49.876 --> 0:15:55.836 who's Levy? I didn't there was no Levy there when 0:15:55.876 --> 0:16:01.516 I wrote these songs. Lev It was Morris Levy, who 0:16:01.596 --> 0:16:04.956 owned the record company Roulette Records that Ronnie was on. 0:16:06.476 --> 0:16:10.996 So I'm like, this, God, how can he just put 0:16:11.036 --> 0:16:15.116 his name on there? So Ronnie's kind of saying, son, 0:16:15.236 --> 0:16:18.196 in this business some you know. He was just giving 0:16:18.236 --> 0:16:21.996 me the old shit happens kind of story, and I'm like, 0:16:22.436 --> 0:16:25.476 this is just wrong though he wasn't. And I'm telling 0:16:25.596 --> 0:16:28.076 Ronnie he wasn't even there when I wrote them. I'm 0:16:28.196 --> 0:16:32.716 just I'm a kid, what do I know? And Ronnie's like, listen, Son, 0:16:32.876 --> 0:16:35.796 these guys, these guys up there in New York, and 0:16:35.876 --> 0:16:38.116 you don't want to mess around with them. They're the 0:16:38.236 --> 0:16:40.556 kind of people you know that you know you're get 0:16:40.556 --> 0:16:43.316 in their way, you know, and they find you in 0:16:43.356 --> 0:16:46.716 the river. He's giving you this whole story. I'm like, 0:16:46.796 --> 0:16:52.396 in the river, he wasn't even there. So anyway, sometime later, 0:16:52.636 --> 0:16:55.916 Ronnie says to me, if you can write songs I 0:16:55.916 --> 0:16:58.316 can write, maybe you'd be good at hearing what I 0:16:58.436 --> 0:17:00.476 was good. So I'm gonna take you to New York 0:17:00.876 --> 0:17:03.796 and I'm gonna take you to the Brill Building and 0:17:03.836 --> 0:17:07.596 we're gonna meet all the songwriters and you're gonna listen 0:17:07.596 --> 0:17:09.916 to their songs and see if they something that would 0:17:09.956 --> 0:17:13.396 be good for me to record. So anyway, we go 0:17:13.956 --> 0:17:17.276 and I meet Doc Palmis and Mark Schuman, I meet 0:17:17.356 --> 0:17:22.156 Lidburn Stroller, I meet Otis Blackwell. It's in my book, Rick. 0:17:22.196 --> 0:17:25.676 When you read that and you hear this whole story, 0:17:26.236 --> 0:17:30.636 it's amazing. Otis Blackwell and Titus Turner, all of these guys, 0:17:30.716 --> 0:17:33.996 and Otis Blackwell is trying to think of a song 0:17:34.036 --> 0:17:35.796 that might be good for wrong. I'm in his little 0:17:36.036 --> 0:17:39.116 room and he's playing a thing on the piano and 0:17:39.116 --> 0:17:44.476 he's accompanying himself telling me how Colonel Tom Parker and 0:17:44.636 --> 0:17:48.476 Elvis fucked him on the song he wrote, Don't Be Cruel. 0:17:48.916 --> 0:17:52.636 While he's telling me the story and accompanying himself on 0:17:52.716 --> 0:17:56.756 the piano, right, and it's like this is amazing, you know. 0:17:57.276 --> 0:18:01.316 And then Lieber and Stoller are playing me songs and 0:18:01.356 --> 0:18:06.556 I'm like, wow, that is a liber in Stoller and 0:18:06.596 --> 0:18:10.036 I'm saying it's great. Do you haven't any more? Then? 0:18:10.716 --> 0:18:14.476 And finally Jerry Lieber says to me, and who are 0:18:14.516 --> 0:18:16.916 you again? And I said, oh, I'm just you know 0:18:16.996 --> 0:18:19.876 what I was like, I was in heaven. And Doc 0:18:19.996 --> 0:18:26.156 Palmis and Lieber and Stoller and Thomas and Schumann went 0:18:26.196 --> 0:18:28.116 on to be friends of mine for the rest of 0:18:28.116 --> 0:18:31.356 their life, as long as they live. We were still 0:18:31.396 --> 0:18:35.716 in contact and friends of mine from that very early point. 0:18:36.396 --> 0:18:42.196 So we are recording, I mean, I'm listening to songs. 0:18:42.676 --> 0:18:45.996 Ronnie says, well, we have to go up to the 0:18:46.076 --> 0:18:49.556 record company and we have to see Morris about some 0:18:49.676 --> 0:18:54.956 things and everything. I think, great, we'll get this songwriting 0:18:55.036 --> 0:19:00.116 thing straightened out once and for all. Right, So we 0:19:00.236 --> 0:19:04.556 go up to this office and it's like a scene 0:19:04.716 --> 0:19:09.476 right out of that Damien Runyon would have written. Is 0:19:10.436 --> 0:19:16.676 there are blondes on the telephone with their hair perfectly 0:19:16.716 --> 0:19:20.236 over one eye, right out of a movie, right, And 0:19:20.276 --> 0:19:24.156 then there's these guys in mohair suits with pock marks 0:19:24.476 --> 0:19:27.316 and a bulge in their you know, in their suit 0:19:27.476 --> 0:19:32.156 Like on this one side, I'm thinking, Wow, these people 0:19:32.196 --> 0:19:35.876 think it's real, you know, they're living in this thing 0:19:36.436 --> 0:19:40.516 and it maybe it is real. Right. So then the 0:19:40.636 --> 0:19:47.236 door opens and Marrie Levy says, Ronnie, Ronnie, I love 0:19:47.276 --> 0:19:51.636 this guy, Ronnie, come on in. And I think what 0:19:51.836 --> 0:19:55.796 happens to gangsters when they're young that their voice goes 0:19:55.956 --> 0:19:59.396 like that. All these gangsters seem to talk this way. 0:19:59.676 --> 0:20:01.636 How old was mars Levy at this time? What do 0:20:01.716 --> 0:20:02.036 you say? 0:20:02.116 --> 0:20:05.636 I don't know. I would say late thirties. 0:20:05.836 --> 0:20:07.076 Wow, how old are you? 0:20:07.516 --> 0:20:11.716 I'm a fifty and a half. I'm by now, I'm 0:20:11.756 --> 0:20:18.036 pushing sixteen, right. So anyway, so we go in and 0:20:18.116 --> 0:20:21.276 Ronnie Hawkins is doing his thing. He's doing the camera 0:20:21.356 --> 0:20:29.516 walk and stuff, and Morris just loves him. So he says, Morris, 0:20:30.676 --> 0:20:33.196 this is this kid I was telling you about that 0:20:33.276 --> 0:20:38.036 I think has a lot of potential. Right. So Morris 0:20:38.116 --> 0:20:41.076 is there and he finally looks at me. He says, yeah. 0:20:41.196 --> 0:20:45.076 He said, if you have to do any time, it'd 0:20:45.116 --> 0:20:48.356 be good to have him with you. And I'm like, 0:20:48.396 --> 0:20:50.916 what is it? He means if you have to go 0:20:50.956 --> 0:20:56.916 to prison, he could be your boy. And I'm like, 0:20:58.036 --> 0:21:03.756 I'm going to forego this songwriting problem completely. I can't 0:21:03.836 --> 0:21:08.396 believe that's the joke that he's telling you. So anyway, 0:21:08.836 --> 0:21:12.676 after this stuff and we and we did find some 0:21:12.796 --> 0:21:16.796 songs that he recorded, and then a few months later 0:21:17.836 --> 0:21:21.556 he calls me and tells me to come down to 0:21:21.756 --> 0:21:27.036 Arkansas to try out because I'm getting better and better 0:21:27.516 --> 0:21:31.716 as a guitar player. And he does think, I don't 0:21:31.756 --> 0:21:34.756 know what it is, but this guy's got something or another. 0:21:35.476 --> 0:21:39.196 And then I go on this mission to prove because 0:21:39.196 --> 0:21:45.036 at sixteen years old, I don't have the experience. I'm 0:21:45.036 --> 0:21:49.236 not a good enough musician yet. And I'm from Canada. 0:21:49.916 --> 0:21:54.356 It's no Canadians and rockabilly bands, so it was unheard of. 0:21:54.676 --> 0:21:58.316 So I had a big mountain to climb and that 0:21:58.596 --> 0:22:02.716 and I went down there and I ended up winning 0:22:02.756 --> 0:22:03.356 that battle. 0:22:04.236 --> 0:22:06.116 How much did you practice back then? Do you remember, 0:22:06.276 --> 0:22:08.196 like to get in your mind to get the job. 0:22:08.476 --> 0:22:09.236 What was it like. 0:22:10.436 --> 0:22:14.676 I practiced till my fingers were bleeding, and I woke 0:22:14.796 --> 0:22:19.596 up many mornings and the bed beside me was my guitar. 0:22:21.116 --> 0:22:26.956 So I just thought I can't. I can't let this 0:22:27.076 --> 0:22:31.956 go by because just to convince my mother too, at 0:22:31.996 --> 0:22:35.916 sixteen years old, I'm leaving school and I'm going to 0:22:35.956 --> 0:22:39.756 the Mississippi Delta to join up with a rock and 0:22:39.916 --> 0:22:45.276 roll band. You know, She's like, what you know, she 0:22:45.316 --> 0:22:50.356 doesn't even understand what this could possibly mean, except she 0:22:50.516 --> 0:22:54.556 could see in my eyes this thing that was so 0:22:54.916 --> 0:22:57.796 driven and that it was I And it was like, 0:22:58.476 --> 0:23:04.316 if I don't try, if I don't do this, I'm 0:23:04.316 --> 0:23:07.316 gonna be sorry the rest of my life. This is 0:23:07.356 --> 0:23:11.756 the biggest opportunity it you know, it couldn't have been 0:23:11.956 --> 0:23:17.516 in my mind a bigger, you know, bigger thing. So 0:23:17.996 --> 0:23:20.876 and I went down there and Ronnie Hawkins was like, oh, Son, 0:23:20.956 --> 0:23:23.956 you're too young, you're too good. I don't know if 0:23:23.956 --> 0:23:25.676 this is going to work out. And I was like, 0:23:26.156 --> 0:23:32.436 you'll see, and I play. I lied about my age, 0:23:32.596 --> 0:23:36.516 you know, for you know, five years. 0:23:37.516 --> 0:23:40.076 Did you did you look older than fifteen at fifteen? 0:23:40.956 --> 0:23:45.756 I was sixteen now sixteen? And Ronnie Hawkins actually said 0:23:45.756 --> 0:23:48.836 to me, he would say, son, can you do something? 0:23:48.836 --> 0:23:52.756 Can you shave? Can you I didn't even shave at 0:23:52.796 --> 0:23:54.756 the time, and I didn't know what to do. And 0:23:54.796 --> 0:23:58.636 I got an electric razor and I started shaving nothing, 0:23:59.156 --> 0:24:02.396 and my face was raw from this electrics. All it 0:24:02.476 --> 0:24:05.876 did was make me red. It didn't make me grow 0:24:05.956 --> 0:24:09.556 any whiskers or nothing. And so for the first while 0:24:10.956 --> 0:24:14.276 where we played, I would stand kind of back a 0:24:14.276 --> 0:24:17.836 little bit in the dark, you know, and because there 0:24:17.836 --> 0:24:20.116 would be lights and everything, and I knew just to 0:24:20.116 --> 0:24:22.036 get out of the way of the lights. And then 0:24:22.116 --> 0:24:25.356 between sets that we would play, I would just go 0:24:25.596 --> 0:24:29.196 in the back room and stay there till it was 0:24:29.236 --> 0:24:32.876 time to go on again, because there was club guys saying, hey, 0:24:33.276 --> 0:24:35.516 I don't want you to get me shut down to Ronnie, 0:24:35.596 --> 0:24:37.796 of course, and Ronnie was like, no, no, don't worry 0:24:37.796 --> 0:24:39.756 about it all. Oh blah blah blah blah. And he 0:24:39.796 --> 0:24:42.836 had to do all this double talking and things, and 0:24:42.956 --> 0:24:45.796 he would say, no, no, no, it's like we call 0:24:45.876 --> 0:24:48.876 him babyface. He just he just looks young, you know, 0:24:49.956 --> 0:24:54.276 he's old enough, he just looks young. But Levon he 0:24:55.196 --> 0:24:59.396 joined Ronnie when he was eighteen, after he graduated from 0:24:59.516 --> 0:25:03.196 high school, and he looked very young, and they got 0:25:03.236 --> 0:25:05.876 away with it. So he thought, well, if he could 0:25:05.916 --> 0:25:09.276 get it away with it from him, you know, And 0:25:09.356 --> 0:25:13.076 then a year after I was with Ronnie Hawkins. All 0:25:13.116 --> 0:25:16.996 the guys from the South except Levon were leaving one 0:25:17.036 --> 0:25:21.556 by one, and then one by one we were hiring Canadians. 0:25:22.196 --> 0:25:26.236 We hired Rick Danko who was from Simcoe, Ontario, then 0:25:26.356 --> 0:25:30.916 Richard Manuel who was from Stratford, Ontario, then Garths Hudson 0:25:30.956 --> 0:25:34.236 who was from London, Ontario. And they all had their 0:25:34.276 --> 0:25:40.156 own bands, so we were, you know, stealing the leaders 0:25:40.196 --> 0:25:43.276 of all of these bands. I was one of those too, 0:25:44.036 --> 0:25:47.036 and that Levon, and I said, we got to get 0:25:47.076 --> 0:25:50.796 that kid. He's you know, he's got potential. 0:25:52.396 --> 0:25:55.596 We'll be back with more from Robbie Robertson after the break. 0:25:59.716 --> 0:26:02.196