Speaker 1: One of the biggest reasons why change is so scary
Speaker 1: is that it can threaten our self identity. One way
Speaker 1: to have a more secure self identity is to anchor
Speaker 1: yourself not simply to what you do, but to why
Speaker 1: you do that thing.
Speaker 2: So, first of all, i want to say, I'm really
Speaker 2: grateful to be here with my very, very dear friend,
Speaker 2: doctor Maya Shanka. We've been friends for like maybe four
Speaker 2: or five years now, and honestly, beyond her incredible resume,
Speaker 2: incredible list of achievements, continued excellence in everything she does,
Speaker 2: she's just truly one of the sweetest, kindest, most wonderful humans.
Speaker 2: And so the fact that you've all come out here
Speaker 2: tonight to support her and hopefully get her book or
Speaker 2: you've already got it. How many of you have already
Speaker 2: got the book? Okay, all of you who didn't put
Speaker 2: your hand up, I want you to get a book
Speaker 2: by the end of this. Truly, I'm just so grateful
Speaker 2: to be here. She is the kindest, most generous, sweet loving,
Speaker 2: wonderful human being, and I'm so happy to be here
Speaker 2: supporting you. So congratulations, mind, thank.
Speaker 3: You so much.
Speaker 1: Day is such an utter delight to be in conversation
Speaker 1: with you about this topic, and I'm so grateful for
Speaker 1: your friendship, So thank.
Speaker 2: You, thank you. Well. This book that you wrote, the
Speaker 2: Other Side of Change, I find it such a fascinating
Speaker 2: topic and read because I feel like there's two types
Speaker 2: of change. One is the change that you choose, and
Speaker 2: the other is the change that chooses you. How many
Speaker 2: of you like it when you decide to change? How
Speaker 2: many of you like it when change chooses you? Yeah,
Speaker 2: exactly right. That's like the worst, It's like the worst
Speaker 2: feeling ever. It's like, what, like, why did this happen
Speaker 2: right now? Like I you know, it's and that's like
Speaker 2: a daily occurrence for anyone on planet Earth. Why did
Speaker 2: this happen?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: Why this happened to me? What's going on? When will
Speaker 2: this change? When will this get better? Talk to me
Speaker 2: about how change has drastically altered your life when you
Speaker 2: least expected it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I should start by saying that the
Speaker 1: reason I study change is because I'm super scared of
Speaker 1: it and I'm really bad at it and I hate
Speaker 1: the unexpected changes by and large that have come my
Speaker 1: way in life. I am someone who loves having a
Speaker 1: firm grip at the steering wheel, right. I like being
Speaker 1: in control. I like feeling like I'm going to dictate
Speaker 1: how my life turns out. It feels very comforting to
Speaker 1: believe that the world is fair and that if you
Speaker 1: do good, good things will be it will happen. If
Speaker 1: you aren't good, bad things will happen. It's just a nice,
Speaker 1: clean input output model. But of course we all know
Speaker 1: that that is sadly not how the universe operates, and
Speaker 1: that fills me with a lot of discomfort, right. The
Speaker 1: uncertainty that fills change. And one of my favorite research
Speaker 1: studies from cognitive science shows that we are more stressed
Speaker 1: when we're told we have a fifty percent chance of
Speaker 1: receiving an electric shock than when we're told we have
Speaker 1: a one hundred percent chance of getting that shock. Yes,
Speaker 1: one hundred percent, And I feel that viscerally. I'm like,
Speaker 1: bring on the shocks, just don't make me have to
Speaker 1: deal with that anticipatory anxiety that makes my skin crawl.
Speaker 1: I had a really formative experience with change when I
Speaker 1: was a little kid. I was an aspiring concert violinist,
Speaker 1: and I was studying at Juilliard at the time under
Speaker 1: it'sak Perlman who is considered, you know, one of the
Speaker 1: best violinists in the world. And I really thought in
Speaker 1: that moment, you know, as a teenager, Okay, I think
Speaker 1: I have what it takes.
Speaker 3: I think I might be able to go pro. And
Speaker 3: then I had my change of plans.
Speaker 1: A sudden injury that I sustained while playing the violin
Speaker 1: led was a career ending injury for me, and doctors
Speaker 1: just told me, I'm really sorry, but your dream is over.
Speaker 1: And that was my first kind of foray with this
Speaker 1: horrible change thing that I've learned to, you know, over time,
Speaker 1: I've learned to have a slightly more peaceful relationship with
Speaker 1: but it was pretty tough as a fifteen year old
Speaker 1: to lose a thing that at that point, Jay, I
Speaker 1: had been doing for almost ten years.
Speaker 2: How many of you have been rejected or failed in
Speaker 2: that way? Anyone? Yeah, it's the worst hearing that news,
Speaker 2: but especially because of something that you're struggling with injury wise.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not even like you didn't make it,
Speaker 2: or you went good enough, or you went smart enough.
Speaker 2: It was something totally out of your control. To some degree,
Speaker 2: when things happen that are out of our control, is
Speaker 2: it even possible for the human mind to be able to tolerate,
Speaker 2: accept and move through it smoothly. Like is that what impossible?
Speaker 2: Is it possible? Is it made up? What's your take?
Speaker 1: Jay, you're the monk. You need to tell us. Why
Speaker 1: is he looking to me for answers.
Speaker 2: I've taken off any kind I'm not monk anymore, but
Speaker 2: I've taken off any sort of metaphorical ropes today to
Speaker 2: be the interviewer for you. So I have no answers.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm just humbly asking glad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's totally teasing, But that is to say, whatever
Speaker 1: piece you found equanimity, you found a change. Just assume
Speaker 1: I found about you know, one fraction. One's very small
Speaker 1: fraction of that. It is a very hard thing for
Speaker 1: us as humans to reckon with the true limits of
Speaker 1: our control. But it also makes a lot of sense
Speaker 1: why our brains lead us to believe we are in control.
Speaker 1: Because if we didn't believe that we had a lot
Speaker 1: of control over our lives, you can imagine that we
Speaker 1: might descend into nihilism. Right, We might just think, what's
Speaker 1: the point of anything? Why am I trying hard? Why
Speaker 1: am I doing good? In the world, none of it
Speaker 1: really seems to matter because that lightning bolt can just
Speaker 1: strike me from above and it was all for not right.
Speaker 1: And what's really interesting about the research is that it
Speaker 1: shows people who have and this is called an internal
Speaker 1: locus of control, so they really strongly feel like they're
Speaker 1: dictating outcomes in their lives. They in general have higher
Speaker 1: well being, greater happiness over time. The challenge, though, is
Speaker 1: that when that proverbial anvil drops from the sky, it
Speaker 1: shatters the illusion and it ends up being a very
Speaker 1: tumultuous time. And in my own life, what I found
Speaker 1: when I lost the violin was that there was something
Speaker 1: so curious about my grief, which was that I didn't
Speaker 1: feel like I was just losing the instrument. I felt
Speaker 1: like I was losing a part of myself. Actually, I
Speaker 1: felt like I was losing all of myself. It felt
Speaker 1: like Maya and the violin were inextricably attached, and in
Speaker 1: taking it away from me, I no longer had as
Speaker 1: much value. Right, it threatened my self worth. It's only
Speaker 1: when you lose something that you realize how much it
Speaker 1: meant to you in the first place. I'm sure many
Speaker 1: of you can relate to this feeling, You're like, oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, I didn't realize how much of my confidence
Speaker 1: was coming from the violin, or you know, as a
Speaker 1: kid who was bullied right as a little girl in
Speaker 1: elementary school, I'm like, oh wow, violin was a big
Speaker 1: part of my sense of social belonging. Right when I
Speaker 1: was at music school, which was international. All the kids
Speaker 1: accepted me. They didn't care about the color of my skin.
Speaker 1: In losing it, I realized actually one of the and
Speaker 1: I by the way, when I say I realized, I
Speaker 1: mean this like it From my current vantage point as
Speaker 1: a fifteen year old, I was just cranky, annoying to
Speaker 1: my parents, like why can't I do this thing I love?
Speaker 1: But in hindsight, I've now realized that one of the
Speaker 1: biggest reasons why change is so scary is that it
Speaker 1: can threaten our self identity. And I've learned that, and
Speaker 1: I would urge all of you to engage in this
Speaker 1: thought experiment. One way to have a more secure self
Speaker 1: identity is to anchor yourself not simply to what you do,
Speaker 1: but to why you do that thing. So I asked myself,
Speaker 1: what did I love about the violin? Well, it turns
Speaker 1: out emotional connection was at the core of my love
Speaker 1: of the instrument. And just because I lost the violin
Speaker 1: didn't mean that I lost what led me to love
Speaker 1: it in the first place. I could still find that
Speaker 1: underlying feature in other places. I could still express that
Speaker 1: part of myself through other channels. And it turns out
Speaker 1: that subconsciously I've done that right as a podcaster hosting
Speaker 1: a slight change of plans, writing the other side of change,
Speaker 1: all of these pursuits have been about forging deep emotional
Speaker 1: connections with people, like this is my bread and butter,
Speaker 1: like I love having this conversation right, like this is
Speaker 1: what makes mya tick, is deep emotional attachment to people
Speaker 1: and connection to people.
Speaker 3: And so ask yourself, what is your why? Right? Maybe
Speaker 3: it is service. Maybe it is caring for people.
Speaker 1: Maybe it is getting better at something and proving at
Speaker 1: a craft. Maybe it is having a creative outlet like
Speaker 1: we were talking about backstage.
Speaker 3: Whatever your why is, life can't take that away from you.
Speaker 1: That's something that's going to be a firm anchor and
Speaker 1: it can guide you towards your next steps. It can
Speaker 1: be a soft landing when life makes other plans for you.
Speaker 1: And I've just felt so much more whole in the
Speaker 1: transitions and in the inflection points in my life, knowing that, like,
Speaker 1: my why is still there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. I was about to ask you
Speaker 2: how to do it, but I love that because I
Speaker 2: think it's so natural for us to place our confidence
Speaker 2: in who we're with, what we're doing, right, It's natural
Speaker 2: to evaluate our value in the world based on.
Speaker 1: I'm placing a little bit of my confidence hanging out
Speaker 1: with Jay Shuddy tonight.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry. I'm just going to say sorry, keep going.
Speaker 2: But it's true, right, we base our value on all
Speaker 2: of these external things exactly, and it's fine when it's
Speaker 2: going good. And we were just talking about that, it's
Speaker 2: fine when it's going good the moment it doesn't work out.
Speaker 2: I was just speaking, I'm thinking of something You've reminded
Speaker 2: me of someone. And I was speaking to a lady
Speaker 2: who I think it was like two weeks after her
Speaker 2: fortieth birthday, and so I was wished her a happy
Speaker 2: belated birthday, and she was a mutual friend of another friend,
Speaker 2: and she was telling me about it, and I was like, Oh,
Speaker 2: tell me about your birthday, Like forty that's a big birthday,
Speaker 2: Like what was the celebration, like, and she said, and
Speaker 2: this is why I was reminded of it, based on
Speaker 2: what mya just said, and why I think, you know,
Speaker 2: her book is the book I'm going to be giving
Speaker 2: to this lady. Straight after this conversation, she said to me,
Speaker 2: she goes, Oh, my fortieth birthday was a disaster. I said, why.
Speaker 2: She said, I lost my job two weeks before my
Speaker 2: fortieth birthday. And I said that sounds terrible, and you know,
Speaker 2: and she's and I was asking her about how she
Speaker 2: lost it and whatever, and she goes, I thought I
Speaker 2: was about to be promoted, so she was, like, I
Speaker 2: thought I was about to be promoted. I lost my job.
Speaker 2: I had my fortieth birthday in two weeks where I
Speaker 2: was so excited to announce my promotion and invite my
Speaker 2: work colleagues and talk about this incredible twenty year career
Speaker 2: that I'd had. And now I didn't have anything to
Speaker 2: talk about. She goes, I didn't have anything to talk about.
Speaker 2: I didn't feel like I'd achieved anything. Sure, I was
Speaker 2: in a relationship and whatever, like all this stuff, but
Speaker 2: like I didn't have something that made it feel like
Speaker 2: my life was going in the right direction, and you're
Speaker 2: spot on. And whether we do it with our families,
Speaker 2: whether we do it through our children, whether we do
Speaker 2: it through our bank balance, whatever we do it through,
Speaker 2: we all find it through some external validation. And what
Speaker 2: you're reminding us to do is saying, pullback and focus
Speaker 2: on why you love that thing? Why, though, is it
Speaker 2: so hard to do that in the moment. I mean,
Speaker 2: you're a cognitive scientist, so tell us what is going
Speaker 2: on in the brain when change is thrown onto you
Speaker 2: and you're like, but I don't like it, Maya, I
Speaker 2: don't want to think about why. I just wanted that promotion. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I wanted that extra money. I wanted that validation and assurance.
Speaker 2: How do I do that well?
Speaker 1: I actually think we're socialized to anchor our self worth
Speaker 1: and our identities to the what, to the roles and
Speaker 1: the labels that we carry. Think about the question we
Speaker 1: ask little kids, what do you want to be when
Speaker 1: you grow up? We don't ask who do you want
Speaker 1: to be when you grow up? What are your passions?
Speaker 3: What do you love doing?
Speaker 1: It turns out from research, actually looking back to your
Speaker 1: childhood is one of the easiest ways to access your
Speaker 1: why you want to find out when you were on
Speaker 1: the playground, what were you gravitating towards? Were you like
Speaker 1: going crazy on the monkey bars, or were you like me,
Speaker 1: like listening to what everyone was saying and trying to
Speaker 1: understand human psychology and social groups, and oh is this
Speaker 1: person thinking this? Or is that you know that was
Speaker 1: me on the player It's like, okay, of course she
Speaker 1: was going to become a cognitive scientist. But that's actually
Speaker 1: one of the best ways of figuring out what that
Speaker 1: core passion is. And look, our self worth is called
Speaker 1: contingent self esteem. That naturally we like to easily anchor
Speaker 1: to something because it almost feels uncomfortable to just anchor
Speaker 1: it to existence, which is what all of us should
Speaker 1: do at the end of the day. By virtue of
Speaker 1: just existing, we should be worthy. But as humans, we
Speaker 1: are getting signals from everywhere that we need to justify
Speaker 1: our existence, we need to justify our presence. And it's
Speaker 1: so interesting because I think someone reached out to me,
Speaker 1: this guy named Scott. He was a human rights lawyer,
Speaker 1: Harvard trained, Rhodes scholar, super accomplished so many accolades. To
Speaker 1: your point about getting that external validation, that was what
Speaker 1: he was getting most of his life as he went
Speaker 1: through his career trajectory, and then he got hit with
Speaker 1: terrible long COVID, totally incapacitated, so he was suffering from
Speaker 1: severe brain fog. He was unable to even read a
Speaker 1: sentence of a book for the longest time. He was
Speaker 1: experiencing nausea, terrible, terrible symptoms, and so bad that he
Speaker 1: had to take permanent leave from his work as a
Speaker 1: human rights lawyer. He listened to my ted talk and
Speaker 1: I had talked about this what versus why distinction, and
Speaker 1: I heard from him. He couldn't type, so he sent
Speaker 1: me a voice memo. I remember, and I was listening
Speaker 1: to my phone. He said, I asked myself what my
Speaker 1: why was, and it was advocating for underrepresented people, people
Speaker 1: who don't have a voice. And so then I asked myself,
Speaker 1: with my newly constrained life that I live, how can
Speaker 1: I still express that why? And he realized he still
Speaker 1: could by advocating for the long hauler community.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And so now he devotes all of the hours of
Speaker 1: his day where he feels cognitively capable to advocating for
Speaker 1: various legislation, talking to drug manufacturers, giving a voice to
Speaker 1: all these humans whose lives had been upturned by long COVID,
Speaker 1: who otherwise wouldn't feel represented. And I think that is
Speaker 1: such a beautiful illustration of my hope with this insight.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. I love that. How many of you are
Speaker 2: going to start trying that out to today, right, And
Speaker 2: we've got to give it a go. We've got to
Speaker 2: give it a go, you know. I always I feel
Speaker 2: like there's so much good advice out there now, and
Speaker 2: it's like Maya's book is packed with these incredible insights,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, the biggest mistake we can make is, God,
Speaker 2: that's a really cool idea, and then it just goes
Speaker 2: over our head. It's like that ability to stop and
Speaker 2: pause and say wow, Like Maya's just repeated this idea
Speaker 2: like three times because of how powerful it is and
Speaker 2: given us multiple examples, whether it's a real life story,
Speaker 2: whether it's cognitive neuroscience, whether it's looking at it from
Speaker 2: a practical point of view, and it makes sense. And
Speaker 2: so I encourage each and every one of you when
Speaker 2: you walk out of here, try and try and apply
Speaker 2: it to a real life situation. I was also reflecting
Speaker 2: that when I think about all the people I look
Speaker 2: up to, Yeah, they all reacted incredibly well to bad circumstances.
Speaker 2: So anyone that I admire or am inspired by. And
Speaker 2: this could be a family member, it could be a
Speaker 2: public figure, it could be anyone in your life. Right,
Speaker 2: it doesn't have to be someone well known. Anyone that
Speaker 2: I look up to had something horrific happened to them
Speaker 2: and they somehow turned it into the best thing that
Speaker 2: ever happened to them. Yeah, And when you study people's
Speaker 2: lives closely, and I'm sure people have that in their families.
Speaker 2: I'm sure if you think about your parents and aunts
Speaker 2: and uncles, or you think about ancestors who just did
Speaker 2: incredible things that we don't even know how they lived
Speaker 2: through times like that, it doesn't what's the difference between
Speaker 2: someone who has something bad happened to them and transforms
Speaker 2: it into a superpower, yeah, and someone who has something
Speaker 2: bad happened to them and doesn't have that ability, Like,
Speaker 2: what's the difference, Because I think we all feel both
Speaker 2: of those things. I've had terrible things happened to me,
Speaker 2: and there have been times where I'm like, all right,
Speaker 2: time to throw in the towel. It's all over. Forget
Speaker 2: about it, and then there's times when tough stuff happens
Speaker 2: and I'm able to what's the difference?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I have really good news for you, because
Speaker 1: as someone who started off being very bad at responding
Speaker 1: to these negative events and who I think has made
Speaker 1: incredible progress, this is a malleable trait in us, and
Speaker 1: I think the difference is in perspective. So I'll say
Speaker 1: a couple things. The first is, we have this funny
Speaker 1: little trick our brains play on us when it comes
Speaker 1: to how we think about who will be moving forward.
Speaker 1: So it's called the end of history illusion, and basically
Speaker 1: what it says is, while we fully acknowledge that we've
Speaker 1: changed considerably in the past. So if you were to
Speaker 1: show me pictures of violinists like eight year old violinist Maya, teenager,
Speaker 1: oh gosh, cringe, teenager Maya college, we have this Yeah, actually,
Speaker 1: right now I thought we were friends, Jane, and then
Speaker 1: you know, twenty something, I'll say, I would say, oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, I am so different from that person. Do
Speaker 1: not even show me, like, I'm going to try to
Speaker 1: create as much emotional distance as I can between you know, current.
Speaker 3: And past Maya.
Speaker 1: But then Funnily enough, if you were to ask me, well,
Speaker 1: how much you plan on changing moving forward.
Speaker 3: I'll be like, nope, finished product. What you see is
Speaker 3: what you get.
Speaker 2: This is it.
Speaker 1: And researchers have said that we falsely believe that the
Speaker 1: present is this watershed moment in which we become the
Speaker 1: person we will be for the rest of our lives.
Speaker 1: And again, it is just this funny little quirk in
Speaker 1: the way that our brains have evolved. And the reason
Speaker 1: that this is relevant to change is that we become
Speaker 1: different people on the other side of change. The titles
Speaker 1: not an accident, the other side of change. When a
Speaker 1: big change happens to us, it also leads to lasting
Speaker 1: change within us. And these big seismic anvil falling from
Speaker 1: the sky moments they accelerate those internal transformations. We come
Speaker 1: out the other side with new values and new perspectives
Speaker 1: and new capabilities, new ways of seeing the world around
Speaker 1: us and ourselves or maybe our fan or maybe our
Speaker 1: family history, or maybe the shame we felt about some
Speaker 1: part of our childhood. Whatever it is, it is possible
Speaker 1: for us to emerge a new person. And so the
Speaker 1: difference that I've come to see even in myself is
Speaker 1: now when I'm feeling daunted at the outset of a
Speaker 1: change and my old reflexes kick in and I think, oh,
Speaker 1: I can't possibly handle what's up ahead. I'm not strong enough,
Speaker 1: I don't have the right resources around me, I don't
Speaker 1: have the right vantage point, I don't.
Speaker 3: Have the right values. Whatever it is.
Speaker 1: I now think the Maya that's actually going to have
Speaker 1: to engage with every part of this process is actually
Speaker 1: going to be different from the person she is today,
Speaker 1: And that is so empowering. Like when you're feeling daunted
Speaker 1: at the outset of change, just know, and I know
Speaker 1: people in this room who have undergone incredible transformations as
Speaker 1: a result of the changes they went through, they would
Speaker 1: never have been able to predict who they would have become.
Speaker 1: And we know also from research, we are bad affective forecasters,
Speaker 1: really bad at predicting how we will think and feel
Speaker 1: about events in the future. And so that I think
Speaker 1: is the sole trait that people have who are really resilient.
Speaker 1: They understand that they too are changing as a result
Speaker 1: of their circumstances, and they are introspective throughout. They think, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm noticing this change has revealed to me that I
Speaker 1: have a certain value or belief.
Speaker 3: Is this holding me back? Is it problematic?
Speaker 1: Maybe this change is giving me a rare opportunity to
Speaker 1: revisit that belief. I shouldn't hold it as sacred, I
Speaker 1: should interrogate it. And so it's been uplifting. And I,
Speaker 1: even in writing the book, saw this transformation within me
Speaker 1: as I was undergoing an unexpected change in my personal
Speaker 1: life that I write about in the final chapter. And
Speaker 1: so I fully believe it now, you know, having seen
Speaker 1: it happen within myself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you were telling me that just before you
Speaker 2: walked on. And not to get into details, but you're
Speaker 2: telling me that you've literally been reading your own book.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, during new change that's happening.
Speaker 3: While not because I'm a narcissist, but.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I see how that came out now.
Speaker 3: And then I listened to my podcast. I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you why I was reading my book. The
Speaker 1: last month of my life was awful. There were unexpected
Speaker 1: challenges in my family when it came to health. And
Speaker 1: just one example, I don't want to get too emotional,
Speaker 1: is that my beloved aunt, her stage four cancer return
Speaker 1: for a third time. Which is just very sad, right,
Speaker 1: I don't know what's going to happen, and I love
Speaker 1: her dearly. And as a person who had been writing
Speaker 1: this book about Unexpected change for three and a half years,
Speaker 1: I think I was engaging in magical thinking.
Speaker 3: Jay.
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, I did the change thing,
Speaker 1: like I had the formative experience in childhood. And as
Speaker 1: I was writing the book, I was struggling to start
Speaker 1: a family with my husband. That was my second big change,
Speaker 1: and like just going to wipe my hands clean, change over,
Speaker 1: you know, And then change was thrown my way and
Speaker 1: it was so hard and so destabilizing, and I just
Speaker 1: remember thinking, in that moment, you have gained so much
Speaker 1: wisdom from the people who invited you into their lives.
Speaker 1: For years, for this book, I interviewed people on repeated
Speaker 1: occasions over multiple years, just to understand so deeply their
Speaker 1: psyche and their life story. And I was like, what
Speaker 1: a shame it would be if you do not benefit
Speaker 1: from that wisdom in this moment, if you don't use
Speaker 1: those same science based strategies you're telling everyone else to use.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to just talk the talk. I wanted
Speaker 1: to walk the walk, and so I still remember this
Speaker 1: one night. I was sitting in my living room and
Speaker 1: my husband, Jimmy, and I were just spiraling. We were
Speaker 1: doing the thing everyone does in the face of uncertain change.
Speaker 1: We were starting to catastrophize. Our anxiety was rising and
Speaker 1: we could feel it in our bodies. Our hearts were racing,
Speaker 1: and everything was looking negative. And I remember I pulled
Speaker 1: out there's one chapter of the book I devote entirely
Speaker 1: to rumination.
Speaker 3: Separate note. I have a PhD in rumination.
Speaker 1: Not an academic not an academic version, but the lived version.
Speaker 1: I am very skilled in waking up in the middle
Speaker 1: of the night and thinking about things, you know, till
Speaker 1: they drive me crazy. And I just remember reading some
Speaker 1: of these words that I'd written because they hit me
Speaker 1: even more in that moment when I feel I needed
Speaker 1: them most. And I was able to actually effectively use
Speaker 1: these strategies and they help me in a time of need.
Speaker 3: And I it was such a trying time.
Speaker 1: I was like, how am I going to get the
Speaker 1: energy to get to like do this book tour. But
Speaker 1: I turned the ship around, folks, I did, and I'm
Speaker 1: here with you right now, and I'm so full of joy,
Speaker 1: and I think one of the reasons why you're seeing, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm so sweet. One of the reasons I was talking
Speaker 1: about this with Jay beforehand, that you are seeing me
Speaker 1: filled with so much joy is that one first of
Speaker 1: all health stuff just puts everything into perspective. It just
Speaker 1: right sizes every small or big problem that you're sorry,
Speaker 1: let me just let me say it. Really getting emotional
Speaker 1: health challenges put everything into perspective immediately, And so I
Speaker 1: instantly had clarity about what this book tour was all about,
Speaker 1: and it was that I had written a book for
Speaker 1: people who are struggling with exactly what I was struggling
Speaker 1: with for the last three weeks. And it renewed my
Speaker 1: faith in the importance of storytelling, in the importance of
Speaker 1: distilling science and ways that are easy for people to understand,
Speaker 1: and for just connecting with my fellow human beings. And
Speaker 1: there's been so much healing that's happened, even in just
Speaker 1: this past week, meeting people from all over the country.
Speaker 1: Right a woman came up to me and said, you know,
Speaker 1: she looked to be about in her late thirties. She
Speaker 1: was diagnosed with early onset Parkinson's, so she was dealing
Speaker 1: with that and another person had been in a terrible
Speaker 1: car crash and she was dealing with the repercussions of that,
Speaker 1: and it's just it's just really touched my heart to
Speaker 1: be in conversation with people going through this stuff.
Speaker 2: So beautiful as I'm listening to you, and I'm so
Speaker 2: glad that you did share that. I didn't know if
Speaker 2: you were going to, but I'm glad you did because
Speaker 2: I don't think there's any better test of doing the
Speaker 2: work than doing it when it's happening right now. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And for those of us that share insight, or share research,
Speaker 2: or give advice or help people through things, it's only
Speaker 2: when you're going through that exact same thing yourself that
Speaker 2: the advice either stands true it doesn't.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you said that, because I want to
Speaker 1: share an example of a time when I didn't want
Speaker 1: to do the work and I ended up doing it
Speaker 1: and it really paid off.
Speaker 3: Okay, So long story short.
Speaker 1: For years and years and years, my husband and I
Speaker 1: were on this journey to start a family, and we
Speaker 1: experienced so many obstacles and disappointments and heartbreaks over the years,
Speaker 1: and a miscarriage with our surrogate and about a year
Speaker 1: and a half later, we were just over the moon
Speaker 1: because we found out that we were going to be
Speaker 1: having identical twin girls. We were we were just so happy, like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, how amazing that this has now happened.
Speaker 1: It's like a blessing given the first pregnancy loss. And
Speaker 1: we saw two healthy, beating hearts. And then five hours
Speaker 1: later we found out that our surrogate had miscarried again.
Speaker 3: And it was.
Speaker 1: To go from such a high high to such a
Speaker 1: low low within just a couple hours was so jarring
Speaker 1: for my nervous system. I was like, I remember telling
Speaker 1: my husband Jimmy, I'm like, we need to leave our apartment,
Speaker 1: Like I just need to get fresh air. I don't
Speaker 1: know how to tolerate sort of the emotional complexity of
Speaker 1: this moment and all that I was grieving. You know.
Speaker 1: We talked about identity loss right. Being a mom was
Speaker 1: one of the earliest identities that I ever aspired to have,
Speaker 1: and society always told me that in order to be
Speaker 1: a full person, I needed to have kids, and for
Speaker 1: that reason, I felt like it was a massive threat
Speaker 1: to hear about this this loss, and I remember getting
Speaker 1: into bed early that night, putting the covers over me
Speaker 1: and just feeling really really sad, and my husband Jimmy
Speaker 1: comes in.
Speaker 3: Bless him.
Speaker 1: He goes may ma's his pet name for me, Let's
Speaker 1: name five things were really grateful for. And I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: hell no, bro, you take your Instagram bs, you go
Speaker 1: into the corner and your toxic positivity. There is no
Speaker 1: space for that in our bedroom right now. And I
Speaker 1: was so ticked off. JA.
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm not doing this. This is so annoying.
Speaker 1: But there was something so sweet and innocent about Jimmy's request,
Speaker 1: and I also thought, Okay, also, if I do this,
Speaker 1: maybe I'll just get him off my back.
Speaker 3: Let me just do this thing now.
Speaker 1: Mind you, Jimmy's a software engineer, so what he did
Speaker 1: not know is that he was engaging me in that
Speaker 1: moment in what's called a self affirmation exercise. Really fun
Speaker 1: to be married to a cognitive scientist. Let me tell you.
Speaker 1: A self affirmation exercise is when you articulate all the
Speaker 1: things that bring your life value and meaning that are
Speaker 1: not being threatened by the change you're going through. So
Speaker 1: if you're in a tough spot in your relationship, you
Speaker 1: might focus on your spiritual life. If you're having a
Speaker 1: rough go of it at work, you might focus on
Speaker 1: how meaningful your community is to you. What the affirmation
Speaker 1: exercise does is that it contextualizes what you're going through,
Speaker 1: and it actually reduces things like denial because when you
Speaker 1: feel like when you don't feel like your whole identity
Speaker 1: is under threat from this change, you can embrace the
Speaker 1: news more easily and actually start to cope with it.
Speaker 1: It also leads to greater resilience, less anxiety. There's all
Speaker 1: sorts of wellbeing outcomes associated with a self affirmation exercise.
Speaker 1: So anyway, Jimmy comes in and he asked me to
Speaker 1: do this thing, and I'm like stubbornly like okay, fine,
Speaker 1: and you know, the first item on my list, I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, well, I'm really grateful for.
Speaker 3: You, you know, like.
Speaker 1: You know, hear the love of my life and you're
Speaker 1: so wonderful. But then this list just flowed out of me.
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful to be an aunt to my six
Speaker 1: nieces and nephews. What a joy that I get to
Speaker 1: go into the closet of our apartment and talk to
Speaker 1: people all over the world about their incredible stories of change.
Speaker 1: Like never in my it was not on my Bingo
Speaker 1: card that I that this was ever going to get
Speaker 1: to be my life, that I got to interview people
Speaker 1: and be interviewed by people where you have such incredibly
Speaker 1: edifying conversations. I love my workouts with my Zoom trainer,
Speaker 1: Like we talk about the Bachelor and love is Blind
Speaker 1: and it's just so much fun to gossip about all
Speaker 1: this stuff and it feeds a different part of my soul.
Speaker 1: I always say, celebrity gossip is my love language. And
Speaker 1: then I'm like, and I'm grateful for the California son,
Speaker 1: and it just it was like effortless. It just started
Speaker 1: to flow out at me, and I swear to God,
Speaker 1: something magical happened in that moment. I had been so
Speaker 1: single mindedly focused on achieving this goal of mine, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of you can relate to this.
Speaker 1: We set our minds on something and we developed tunnel vision.
Speaker 1: We're like, until I get this outcome, like nothing can
Speaker 1: rest That I had lost perspective on how otherwise rich
Speaker 1: and multi dimensional my life was. I had forgotten that, yes,
Speaker 1: I was in pursuit of motherhood, but there was still
Speaker 1: so much else that defined me. There was still so
Speaker 1: much that made me a valuable human and were sources
Speaker 1: of joy in my life, and there was so much
Speaker 1: to be grateful for. And so did I go to
Speaker 1: bed over joyed that night, of course not. But did
Speaker 1: I go to bed feeling more whole, Yes, I did.
Speaker 1: And I'm so grateful that I forced myself in that
Speaker 1: moment to do the uncomfortable thing because it really helped
Speaker 1: me in the longer term. And Jimmy slept on the couch,
Speaker 1: yeah exactly, yeah, and then we hired the divorce lawyers.
Speaker 2: That good old Jimmy. That's good for Jay now, even
Speaker 2: for Jimmy to have the like courage to even say
Speaker 2: that to you in that moment, I was like, oh God,
Speaker 2: I was a scared boy. I feel like I just
Speaker 2: learned this yesterday. And so if I sound if you
Speaker 2: hear this, then you go, yeah, I've heard that a
Speaker 2: million times, then I'm glad you learned it quicker than
Speaker 2: I did. I literally learned this like two weeks ago.
Speaker 2: I was in India, back at the monastery that I
Speaker 2: used to live at, and I was sharing something I
Speaker 2: thought i'd learned with my teacher. And he has this
Speaker 2: really remarkable way of teaching me back without making me
Speaker 2: feel like I'm stupid, but it's kind of like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you're stupid, Like you got that wrong, and you've You've
Speaker 2: just given me the science to back up what he
Speaker 2: was saying to me. So up until like two weeks ago,
Speaker 2: I thought you had to somehow figure out how to
Speaker 2: be grateful for what happened to you. We always hear
Speaker 2: that be grateful for what happened. You know, the curse
Speaker 2: becomes a gift and the nightmare becomes the dream, and
Speaker 2: you know, like be grateful for what happened to you.
Speaker 2: And I've always felt that you just had to somehow
Speaker 2: figure that out through like raw tolerance, beating your head over,
Speaker 2: you know, whatever it took, Like you just had to
Speaker 2: figure our way, and if you were deep enough and
Speaker 2: if you were profound enough, then one day you could
Speaker 2: be grateful for like terrible things happening to you. And
Speaker 2: I felt like that's what it meant to have, like
Speaker 2: you know, God's childlike level forgiveness and level of acceptance.
Speaker 2: And he just said this to me, He goes I
Speaker 2: was saying that to him. I was like, yeah, I
Speaker 2: really believe that, you know, one day I'll be really
Speaker 2: grateful for this, and I'll be grateful for what happened
Speaker 2: to me. And he said, he said, you don't have
Speaker 2: to be grateful for what happens to you. You have
Speaker 2: to be grateful for what you have after what happens
Speaker 2: to you. And it was just this subtle, tiny change
Speaker 2: that completely freed me of this pressure that I'd put
Speaker 2: myself under. Is if you had to be grateful, yeah,
Speaker 2: for not being able to have children, or you have
Speaker 2: to be grateful for having an injury when you wanted
Speaker 2: to be a violinist as a kid, It's like, no,
Speaker 2: you don't have to be grateful for that that you could.
Speaker 2: You could pretend to maybe for a day, but you know,
Speaker 2: you've just freed us as well by giving us the
Speaker 2: science mind. And that's why I love your work so much,
Speaker 2: because you have this profound ability to take wisdom, have
Speaker 2: the signs to back it up, the resets to back
Speaker 2: it up, and then make it sound so simple, even
Speaker 2: though you're so much smarter than all of us, but
Speaker 2: you know, make it sound and that's what you do
Speaker 2: so brilliantly in this book. It's like we're like wow,
Speaker 2: like you're actually speaking to us and speaking to our
Speaker 2: hearts and speaking our language. Uh. And I guess you
Speaker 2: had all this time to practice on software engineer Jimmy,
Speaker 2: so you know you've had a gain.
Speaker 3: Oh god, No, yeah, just a follow on to what
Speaker 3: you said. I think that's so spot on.
Speaker 1: And the people that I interviewed for the other side
Speaker 1: of change, by and large, aren't happy that they had
Speaker 1: to go through what they went through. They would not
Speaker 1: will their changes over again. Who would Who would invite
Speaker 1: illness into their lives and a heartbreak and loss? I mean,
Speaker 1: that would be kind of strange. But they are extremely grateful,
Speaker 1: all of them, for the person they became as a
Speaker 1: result of the change they went through. And I feel
Speaker 1: like that's perfectly echoed by this teacher of yours. They
Speaker 1: feel like they emerged with renewed confidence, a renewed relationship
Speaker 1: with their family, a new sense of what was important,
Speaker 1: a new perspective on their self worth and where to
Speaker 1: actually anchor it, A new way of seeing attachment and
Speaker 1: their closest relationships.
Speaker 3: That's the part they're grateful for.
Speaker 1: And I love the honesty of that because I often say, like,
Speaker 1: I'm allergic to two things, soy and platitudes. I'm always
Speaker 1: skeptical when people talk about silver linings and whatnot, and like, really.
Speaker 3: Are you sure?
Speaker 1: Is that just something you tell yourself because it makes
Speaker 1: you feel better. Where's the science to back it up?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: And so it's so interesting because I was seeing I
Speaker 1: wanted to write it. By the way, writing the Other
Speaker 1: Side of Change pretty agnostic as to what I would find.
Speaker 1: I identified people from all over the world that I
Speaker 1: just found fascinating, and I interviewed them for a bunch
Speaker 1: of years, and I didn't know their what lessons I
Speaker 1: would learn. I didn't know what their stories would reveal,
Speaker 1: which was an incredibly delightful process of exploration. By the way,
Speaker 1: it was like me, like Maya the cognitive scientist in
Speaker 1: a candy shop.
Speaker 2: Literally.
Speaker 1: I started to see this incredibly hopeful message emerge about change, right,
Speaker 1: which is that people were grateful for the internal transformation
Speaker 1: they went through. And I really felt this deeply, And
Speaker 1: I was alluding to this before when I was writing
Speaker 1: the final chapter of the book unexpectedly about my own
Speaker 1: experience on this parent or trying to be a parent journey,
Speaker 1: and I realized something really important. So I had very
Speaker 1: slowly and very subconsciously been on my own internal evolution
Speaker 1: and transformation on this topic. If you had asked me
Speaker 1: on that night, when Jimmy asked me that incredibly annoying question,
Speaker 1: is anything good ever going to come of this? I
Speaker 1: would have said no. Will you ever feel whole as
Speaker 1: a person if you don't have kids, Oh definitely not.
Speaker 1: Will your life have enough color without kids?
Speaker 3: Oh, my gosh.
Speaker 1: Absolutely all of those questions I would have said no to.
Speaker 1: And yet here I am three years out and I
Speaker 1: am child free today, and you are seeing the happiest,
Speaker 1: most joyful, most curious, most hopeful version of Maya that
Speaker 1: has ever existed. And I could never have seen that coming.
Speaker 1: Because I thank you my dream was cut short, you know,
Speaker 1: and you don't always anticipate that when a dream is
Speaker 1: cut short, you'll still be grateful for what hapen. And
Speaker 1: on the other side, exactly to your point, and so
Speaker 1: witnessing that within me was very moving and very wildly unexpected,
Speaker 1: I realized, by the way. So one of the chapters
Speaker 1: in the Other Side of Change is about a woman
Speaker 1: who has to revisit her relationship with her family history.
Speaker 1: It actually comes about through about of amnesia. It's like
Speaker 1: one of the most fascinating tales I've come across, And
Speaker 1: the idea of that chapter is it shows change can
Speaker 1: actually serve as an important moment of revelation for all
Speaker 1: of us. So when a really negative thing happens in
Speaker 1: our lives, we can often think of it as a
Speaker 1: personal apocalypse of sorts. The world that we once knew
Speaker 1: that was so familiar and so comforting to us, so
Speaker 1: comfortable as well, is no longer available. And interestingly, the
Speaker 1: word apocalypse comes from the Greek word apocalypsis, which means revelation,
Speaker 1: And so the etymology is really instructive. Change can abend us, yes,
Speaker 1: but it can also reveal things to us. And as
Speaker 1: I was going on this journey of figuring out my
Speaker 1: own relationship with motherhood and parenthood, I realized I did
Speaker 1: have quite antiquated views that were fed to me, maybe
Speaker 1: through my Indian American upbringing, right through cultural forces, through
Speaker 1: pop culture, through society, through the very special stigma reserved
Speaker 1: for child free women that a woman's value was something
Speaker 1: that was firmly attached to whether she had kids, whether
Speaker 1: she has kids. I mean, it's a stigma that still
Speaker 1: very much exists today, and part of my process because
Speaker 1: I talk in the book about how we cannot view
Speaker 1: our beliefs and ideas as these sacred, immutable truths that
Speaker 1: ought to never be examined. Most of our beliefs, most
Speaker 1: of the ideas we have about the world were inherited subconsciously,
Speaker 1: they were through They were in our childhood from caregivers,
Speaker 1: and we had so much of our love wrapped up
Speaker 1: in that caregiver that to challenge them, to question them
Speaker 1: would have been quite dangerous, emotionally dangerous for us.
Speaker 3: Or we learned them from a.
Speaker 1: Teacher that we so greatly admired, and because we were
Speaker 1: more of a black and white thinker, we couldn't see
Speaker 1: that there might be nuance. Or we learned it from
Speaker 1: watching TV, or we learned it through who becomes famous
Speaker 1: or not famous, And all of those ideas are worth
Speaker 1: unwinding and unpacking, and change can give us this powerful
Speaker 1: moment where we take a step back and think, wow,
Speaker 1: is this point of view worth revisiting? And so I
Speaker 1: credit ingrid this woman's story for giving me the courage
Speaker 1: I needed to question some of these assumptions and to
Speaker 1: now feel like, of course, I'm like a whole woman
Speaker 1: in her you know, without kids like, how could I
Speaker 1: have ever thought that? It seems preposterous now, but we
Speaker 1: all grow up with these self limiting beliefs, and so
Speaker 1: I believe in the power of change to help unearth
Speaker 1: what they are and then give us a chance to
Speaker 1: question them.
Speaker 2: Well said, Well said, Maya. We're running out of time,
Speaker 2: but I want to end with a little quick fire
Speaker 2: about change.
Speaker 3: Okay, I'll try every thing.
Speaker 2: We always end every episode of my podcast with a
Speaker 2: quick fire. But you've already done that before because you
Speaker 2: came on the show four years ago.
Speaker 1: And you've answered those questions.
Speaker 2: So I'm going to give you. I'm going to give
Speaker 2: you a new set of questions. So these questions have
Speaker 2: to be answered in one sentence. All right. So the
Speaker 2: first question is what is the first change people should
Speaker 2: choose after tonight.
Speaker 3: Being present when they are with other people.
Speaker 2: That's a great answer, Very good. All right, put your.
Speaker 3: Phone away because that really right.
Speaker 2: Now, keep filming so that so that more people.
Speaker 1: And I'm not allowed to go on, but just know
Speaker 1: that that is also evidence based.
Speaker 2: Go ahead, do you want to tell us the let's okay,
Speaker 2: all right, okay, okay, second question, the change that you're
Speaker 2: happiest you made in the last twelve months.
Speaker 1: To care less what people I don't respect think of me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a really hard one. As still working on it.
Speaker 1: I'm like, wait, but I just want can't we just
Speaker 1: all feel love for one another? It's like such a
Speaker 1: naive point of view, but I'm like, I just want
Speaker 1: people to love each other. And then it's just yeah,
Speaker 1: and then you know, not looking at comments on the internet.
Speaker 2: So question number three, something you're trying to change this year?
Speaker 1: I am an extremely impatient person. Can I have a
Speaker 1: few more sense?
Speaker 2: You've been doing it for all of them without permission?
Speaker 2: Why you asking now?
Speaker 1: I'm extremely impatient. I for so long hated this part
Speaker 1: of my personality. Though, I think one thing that's really
Speaker 1: helpful for everyone is to remember there's always two sides
Speaker 1: to the coin on personality traits. So my impatience has
Speaker 1: also really helped me in my work in the White
Speaker 1: House and my work you know, at various places like that.
Speaker 1: Impatience propels me to try to get stuff done, so
Speaker 1: I try not to resent it too much, but I
Speaker 1: think it would be really good for my overall well
Speaker 1: being if I just like took a b So when
Speaker 1: my you know, if my boss sends me a message
Speaker 1: on like a Friday afternoon, that's like, hey, period, don't
Speaker 1: freak out.
Speaker 3: You can wait till Monday. It's going to be okay.
Speaker 1: Whereas I tend to kind of like need resolution as
Speaker 1: quickly as possible.
Speaker 2: That's I think we can all relate.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just want closure.
Speaker 2: The smallest change that someone can make in their relationships.
Speaker 1: Try not to impose your mental frame, your way of
Speaker 1: seeing the world onto the other person. So before you
Speaker 1: talk at them, deeply listen to them, and then you
Speaker 1: will be able to find common ground.
Speaker 2: Great answers, Well, you're like, I'm.
Speaker 3: Trying to be picky.
Speaker 2: This is really good. This is the final question I
Speaker 2: want to ask you. Okay, and this one go on.
Speaker 2: You can go on on it because I really want
Speaker 2: to understand it. Do you believe that if we chose
Speaker 2: more change we'd be better at dealing with change?
Speaker 3: I love that question so much so.
Speaker 1: The previous stop of this book tour was in San Francisco,
Speaker 1: and Michael Lewis was moderating the conversation, so the author
Speaker 1: and journalist and someone in the audience asked a question
Speaker 1: actually about the uncertainty around AI and as a mom,
Speaker 1: she was thinking, what do I tell my kid right,
Speaker 1: so that they learn to embrace change, Because that's actually
Speaker 1: kind of what you're asking, right, How can we take
Speaker 1: strategic steps to embrace change more? And he gave a
Speaker 1: fantastic piece of advice. He said, take an improv comedy class.
Speaker 1: Get yourself off balance. That's really the kind of change
Speaker 1: that's really healthy for us is to go outside of
Speaker 1: our comfort zone, to test ourselves and to be in
Speaker 1: almost this perpetual state of unease, because that's when we
Speaker 1: flex all these muscles, all these abilities that we had
Speaker 1: that may have been laying dormant because we were always
Speaker 1: choosing what was comfortable, and we get to see them
Speaker 1: on display and think, oh, well, like maybe I am
Speaker 1: a little bit more resilient than I thought. And I
Speaker 1: think it's so great for us to introduce change in
Speaker 1: the form of challenge when we learn a new skill,
Speaker 1: for example. So you inter you interviewed Chris Hemsworth for
Speaker 1: your podcast and I was his brain coach on this
Speaker 1: show called Limitless, and I was so inspired by his attitude.
Speaker 3: You know, this guy is like.
Speaker 1: One of the most famous actors in the world. He
Speaker 1: could just sit back and relax, And he was telling
Speaker 1: this audience at the London premiere, I think we all
Speaker 1: need to be a little bit more uncomfortable. He's like,
Speaker 1: I seek out discomfort wherever I can. He's like, you know,
Speaker 1: with these nests, thermosats to adapt that adapt to the
Speaker 1: ideal temperature, and smart white, like everything's meant to be
Speaker 1: customized so that it.
Speaker 3: Brings ease into our lives.
Speaker 1: And Chris was saying, I feel like that's the only
Speaker 1: vehicle for growth is to be in these uncertain, uncomfort situations.
Speaker 3: That's the only way.
Speaker 1: The episode was all about flexing our brain's capacity for plasticity, right,
Speaker 1: and building cognitive reserve so that as we age, we
Speaker 1: feel the impact less.
Speaker 3: Again.
Speaker 1: I was just so inspired to hear him say that,
Speaker 1: because again he could just kick back and be like, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm good, and instead, you know, for our episode, he
Speaker 1: learned the drums and played with Ed Sheeran in front
Speaker 1: of seventy thousand people, So we don't have to do
Speaker 1: that version.
Speaker 3: I'm not doing that version.
Speaker 1: My smaller commitment to introduce a little bit of change
Speaker 1: into my life was re picking up learning Mandarin, so
Speaker 1: my husband's Chinese American and his relatives don't speak English.
Speaker 1: And I took a brief hiatus, namely three and a
Speaker 1: half years while I wrote this book where I stopped
Speaker 1: taking those lessons, and I'm now committing to starting again
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2: Well, Min, I'm so happy that you took that brief
Speaker 2: hiatus and put together this amazing book, The Other Side
Speaker 2: of Change. As I said, when you pick up this
Speaker 2: book today, you're not picking up just a book. You're
Speaker 2: picking up interview research, hundreds and thousands of hours of
Speaker 2: other people's stories, lived experience, ups and downs, challenges, breakthroughs, discomfort,
Speaker 2: and you get to invite that all into your life.
Speaker 2: And as someone who grew up as an avid reader
Speaker 2: of nonfiction and true stories, I think what Maya's put
Speaker 2: together in this incredible book is an invitation to all
Speaker 2: of us to study the lives of people just like
Speaker 2: us who have walked the path of challenges that we
Speaker 2: either have in our life right now or may have
Speaker 2: in the future, and gain probably the most important skill
Speaker 2: humans could potentially ever develop, which is dealing with change.
Speaker 2: There's probably no if there's one skill you dedicate twenty
Speaker 2: twenty six too, it should probably be dealing with change.
Speaker 2: There is no more important skill, not Mandarin, sorry.
Speaker 3: No, not anything else.
Speaker 2: It's dealing with change. And so this book is dedicated
Speaker 2: to that mayas dedicated in half years and the people
Speaker 2: that are in the book have spent decades living it through.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, totally.
Speaker 2: And so from the bottom of my heart, hope you'll
Speaker 2: grab a copy. I'm so proud of you and grateful
Speaker 2: for just how you walk through life, and even just
Speaker 2: your expertise and all the answers you gave today was
Speaker 2: just second to none. It was unbelievable to learn from
Speaker 2: you and listen to you. I'm always humbold when I'm
Speaker 2: around you. Oh thank you, sir, and I'm so grateful
Speaker 2: that you let me support you. I'm going to let
Speaker 2: everyone ask you all their amazing questions now that I'm
Speaker 2: sure they're dying to ask you. And thank you again
Speaker 2: for letting me be a part of this. Give it up,
Speaker 2: my error. If you love this episode, you'll enjoy my
Speaker 2: interview with doctor Daniel Ahman on how to change your
Speaker 2: life by changing your brain.
Speaker 4: If we want a healthy mind, it actually starts with
Speaker 4: a healthy brain. You know, I've had the blessing or
Speaker 4: the curse to scam. Over a thousand convicted felons and
Speaker 4: over one hundred murderers, and their brains are very damaged.