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Speaker 1: One of the biggest reasons why change is so scary

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Speaker 1: is that it can threaten our self identity. One way

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Speaker 1: to have a more secure self identity is to anchor

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Speaker 1: yourself not simply to what you do, but to why

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Speaker 1: you do that thing.

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Speaker 2: So, first of all, i want to say, I'm really

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Speaker 2: grateful to be here with my very, very dear friend,

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Speaker 2: doctor Maya Shanka. We've been friends for like maybe four

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Speaker 2: or five years now, and honestly, beyond her incredible resume,

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Speaker 2: incredible list of achievements, continued excellence in everything she does,

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Speaker 2: she's just truly one of the sweetest, kindest, most wonderful humans.

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Speaker 2: And so the fact that you've all come out here

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Speaker 2: tonight to support her and hopefully get her book or

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Speaker 2: you've already got it. How many of you have already

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Speaker 2: got the book? Okay, all of you who didn't put

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Speaker 2: your hand up, I want you to get a book

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Speaker 2: by the end of this. Truly, I'm just so grateful

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Speaker 2: to be here. She is the kindest, most generous, sweet loving,

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Speaker 2: wonderful human being, and I'm so happy to be here

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Speaker 2: supporting you. So congratulations, mind, thank.

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Speaker 3: You so much.

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Speaker 1: Day is such an utter delight to be in conversation

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Speaker 1: with you about this topic, and I'm so grateful for

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Speaker 1: your friendship, So thank.

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Speaker 2: You, thank you. Well. This book that you wrote, the

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Speaker 2: Other Side of Change, I find it such a fascinating

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Speaker 2: topic and read because I feel like there's two types

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Speaker 2: of change. One is the change that you choose, and

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Speaker 2: the other is the change that chooses you. How many

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Speaker 2: of you like it when you decide to change? How

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Speaker 2: many of you like it when change chooses you? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: exactly right. That's like the worst, It's like the worst

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Speaker 2: feeling ever. It's like, what, like, why did this happen

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Speaker 2: right now? Like I you know, it's and that's like

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Speaker 2: a daily occurrence for anyone on planet Earth. Why did

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Speaker 2: this happen?

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Speaker 1: Now?

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Speaker 2: Why this happened to me? What's going on? When will

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Speaker 2: this change? When will this get better? Talk to me

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Speaker 2: about how change has drastically altered your life when you

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Speaker 2: least expected it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I should start by saying that the

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Speaker 1: reason I study change is because I'm super scared of

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Speaker 1: it and I'm really bad at it and I hate

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Speaker 1: the unexpected changes by and large that have come my

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Speaker 1: way in life. I am someone who loves having a

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Speaker 1: firm grip at the steering wheel, right. I like being

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Speaker 1: in control. I like feeling like I'm going to dictate

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Speaker 1: how my life turns out. It feels very comforting to

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Speaker 1: believe that the world is fair and that if you

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Speaker 1: do good, good things will be it will happen. If

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Speaker 1: you aren't good, bad things will happen. It's just a nice,

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Speaker 1: clean input output model. But of course we all know

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Speaker 1: that that is sadly not how the universe operates, and

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Speaker 1: that fills me with a lot of discomfort, right. The

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Speaker 1: uncertainty that fills change. And one of my favorite research

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Speaker 1: studies from cognitive science shows that we are more stressed

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Speaker 1: when we're told we have a fifty percent chance of

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Speaker 1: receiving an electric shock than when we're told we have

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Speaker 1: a one hundred percent chance of getting that shock. Yes,

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent, And I feel that viscerally. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: bring on the shocks, just don't make me have to

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Speaker 1: deal with that anticipatory anxiety that makes my skin crawl.

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Speaker 1: I had a really formative experience with change when I

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Speaker 1: was a little kid. I was an aspiring concert violinist,

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Speaker 1: and I was studying at Juilliard at the time under

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Speaker 1: it'sak Perlman who is considered, you know, one of the

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Speaker 1: best violinists in the world. And I really thought in

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Speaker 1: that moment, you know, as a teenager, Okay, I think

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Speaker 1: I have what it takes.

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Speaker 3: I think I might be able to go pro. And

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Speaker 3: then I had my change of plans.

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Speaker 1: A sudden injury that I sustained while playing the violin

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Speaker 1: led was a career ending injury for me, and doctors

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Speaker 1: just told me, I'm really sorry, but your dream is over.

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Speaker 1: And that was my first kind of foray with this

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Speaker 1: horrible change thing that I've learned to, you know, over time,

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Speaker 1: I've learned to have a slightly more peaceful relationship with

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Speaker 1: but it was pretty tough as a fifteen year old

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Speaker 1: to lose a thing that at that point, Jay, I

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Speaker 1: had been doing for almost ten years.

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Speaker 2: How many of you have been rejected or failed in

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Speaker 2: that way? Anyone? Yeah, it's the worst hearing that news,

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Speaker 2: but especially because of something that you're struggling with injury wise.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's not even like you didn't make it,

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Speaker 2: or you went good enough, or you went smart enough.

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Speaker 2: It was something totally out of your control. To some degree,

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Speaker 2: when things happen that are out of our control, is

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Speaker 2: it even possible for the human mind to be able to tolerate,

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Speaker 2: accept and move through it smoothly. Like is that what impossible?

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Speaker 2: Is it possible? Is it made up? What's your take?

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Speaker 1: Jay, you're the monk. You need to tell us. Why

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Speaker 1: is he looking to me for answers.

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Speaker 2: I've taken off any kind I'm not monk anymore, but

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Speaker 2: I've taken off any sort of metaphorical ropes today to

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Speaker 2: be the interviewer for you. So I have no answers.

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm just humbly asking glad.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's totally teasing, But that is to say, whatever

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Speaker 1: piece you found equanimity, you found a change. Just assume

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Speaker 1: I found about you know, one fraction. One's very small

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Speaker 1: fraction of that. It is a very hard thing for

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Speaker 1: us as humans to reckon with the true limits of

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Speaker 1: our control. But it also makes a lot of sense

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Speaker 1: why our brains lead us to believe we are in control.

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Speaker 1: Because if we didn't believe that we had a lot

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Speaker 1: of control over our lives, you can imagine that we

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Speaker 1: might descend into nihilism. Right, We might just think, what's

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Speaker 1: the point of anything? Why am I trying hard? Why

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Speaker 1: am I doing good? In the world, none of it

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Speaker 1: really seems to matter because that lightning bolt can just

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Speaker 1: strike me from above and it was all for not right.

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Speaker 1: And what's really interesting about the research is that it

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Speaker 1: shows people who have and this is called an internal

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Speaker 1: locus of control, so they really strongly feel like they're

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Speaker 1: dictating outcomes in their lives. They in general have higher

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Speaker 1: well being, greater happiness over time. The challenge, though, is

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Speaker 1: that when that proverbial anvil drops from the sky, it

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Speaker 1: shatters the illusion and it ends up being a very

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Speaker 1: tumultuous time. And in my own life, what I found

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Speaker 1: when I lost the violin was that there was something

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Speaker 1: so curious about my grief, which was that I didn't

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Speaker 1: feel like I was just losing the instrument. I felt

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Speaker 1: like I was losing a part of myself. Actually, I

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Speaker 1: felt like I was losing all of myself. It felt

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Speaker 1: like Maya and the violin were inextricably attached, and in

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Speaker 1: taking it away from me, I no longer had as

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Speaker 1: much value. Right, it threatened my self worth. It's only

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Speaker 1: when you lose something that you realize how much it

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Speaker 1: meant to you in the first place. I'm sure many

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Speaker 1: of you can relate to this feeling, You're like, oh

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Speaker 1: my gosh, I didn't realize how much of my confidence

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Speaker 1: was coming from the violin, or you know, as a

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Speaker 1: kid who was bullied right as a little girl in

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Speaker 1: elementary school, I'm like, oh wow, violin was a big

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Speaker 1: part of my sense of social belonging. Right when I

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Speaker 1: was at music school, which was international. All the kids

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Speaker 1: accepted me. They didn't care about the color of my skin.

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Speaker 1: In losing it, I realized actually one of the and

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Speaker 1: I by the way, when I say I realized, I

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Speaker 1: mean this like it From my current vantage point as

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Speaker 1: a fifteen year old, I was just cranky, annoying to

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Speaker 1: my parents, like why can't I do this thing I love?

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Speaker 1: But in hindsight, I've now realized that one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest reasons why change is so scary is that it

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Speaker 1: can threaten our self identity. And I've learned that, and

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Speaker 1: I would urge all of you to engage in this

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Speaker 1: thought experiment. One way to have a more secure self

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Speaker 1: identity is to anchor yourself not simply to what you do,

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Speaker 1: but to why you do that thing. So I asked myself,

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Speaker 1: what did I love about the violin? Well, it turns

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Speaker 1: out emotional connection was at the core of my love

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Speaker 1: of the instrument. And just because I lost the violin

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Speaker 1: didn't mean that I lost what led me to love

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Speaker 1: it in the first place. I could still find that

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Speaker 1: underlying feature in other places. I could still express that

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Speaker 1: part of myself through other channels. And it turns out

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Speaker 1: that subconsciously I've done that right as a podcaster hosting

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Speaker 1: a slight change of plans, writing the other side of change,

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Speaker 1: all of these pursuits have been about forging deep emotional

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Speaker 1: connections with people, like this is my bread and butter,

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Speaker 1: like I love having this conversation right, like this is

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Speaker 1: what makes mya tick, is deep emotional attachment to people

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Speaker 1: and connection to people.

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Speaker 3: And so ask yourself, what is your why? Right? Maybe

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Speaker 3: it is service. Maybe it is caring for people.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it is getting better at something and proving at

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Speaker 1: a craft. Maybe it is having a creative outlet like

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Speaker 1: we were talking about backstage.

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Speaker 3: Whatever your why is, life can't take that away from you.

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Speaker 1: That's something that's going to be a firm anchor and

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Speaker 1: it can guide you towards your next steps. It can

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Speaker 1: be a soft landing when life makes other plans for you.

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Speaker 1: And I've just felt so much more whole in the

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Speaker 1: transitions and in the inflection points in my life, knowing that, like,

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Speaker 1: my why is still there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. I was about to ask you

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Speaker 2: how to do it, but I love that because I

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Speaker 2: think it's so natural for us to place our confidence

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Speaker 2: in who we're with, what we're doing, right, It's natural

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Speaker 2: to evaluate our value in the world based on.

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Speaker 1: I'm placing a little bit of my confidence hanging out

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Speaker 1: with Jay Shuddy tonight.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry. I'm just going to say sorry, keep going.

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Speaker 2: But it's true, right, we base our value on all

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Speaker 2: of these external things exactly, and it's fine when it's

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Speaker 2: going good. And we were just talking about that, it's

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Speaker 2: fine when it's going good the moment it doesn't work out.

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Speaker 2: I was just speaking, I'm thinking of something You've reminded

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Speaker 2: me of someone. And I was speaking to a lady

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Speaker 2: who I think it was like two weeks after her

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Speaker 2: fortieth birthday, and so I was wished her a happy

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Speaker 2: belated birthday, and she was a mutual friend of another friend,

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Speaker 2: and she was telling me about it, and I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 2: tell me about your birthday, Like forty that's a big birthday,

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Speaker 2: Like what was the celebration, like, and she said, and

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Speaker 2: this is why I was reminded of it, based on

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Speaker 2: what mya just said, and why I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: her book is the book I'm going to be giving

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Speaker 2: to this lady. Straight after this conversation, she said to me,

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Speaker 2: she goes, Oh, my fortieth birthday was a disaster. I said, why.

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Speaker 2: She said, I lost my job two weeks before my

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Speaker 2: fortieth birthday. And I said that sounds terrible, and you know,

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Speaker 2: and she's and I was asking her about how she

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Speaker 2: lost it and whatever, and she goes, I thought I

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Speaker 2: was about to be promoted, so she was, like, I

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Speaker 2: thought I was about to be promoted. I lost my job.

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Speaker 2: I had my fortieth birthday in two weeks where I

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Speaker 2: was so excited to announce my promotion and invite my

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Speaker 2: work colleagues and talk about this incredible twenty year career

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Speaker 2: that I'd had. And now I didn't have anything to

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Speaker 2: talk about. She goes, I didn't have anything to talk about.

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Speaker 2: I didn't feel like I'd achieved anything. Sure, I was

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Speaker 2: in a relationship and whatever, like all this stuff, but

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Speaker 2: like I didn't have something that made it feel like

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Speaker 2: my life was going in the right direction, and you're

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Speaker 2: spot on. And whether we do it with our families,

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Speaker 2: whether we do it through our children, whether we do

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Speaker 2: it through our bank balance, whatever we do it through,

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Speaker 2: we all find it through some external validation. And what

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Speaker 2: you're reminding us to do is saying, pullback and focus

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Speaker 2: on why you love that thing? Why, though, is it

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Speaker 2: so hard to do that in the moment. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you're a cognitive scientist, so tell us what is going

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Speaker 2: on in the brain when change is thrown onto you

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Speaker 2: and you're like, but I don't like it, Maya, I

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Speaker 2: don't want to think about why. I just wanted that promotion. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I wanted that extra money. I wanted that validation and assurance.

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Speaker 2: How do I do that well?

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Speaker 1: I actually think we're socialized to anchor our self worth

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Speaker 1: and our identities to the what, to the roles and

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Speaker 1: the labels that we carry. Think about the question we

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Speaker 1: ask little kids, what do you want to be when

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Speaker 1: you grow up? We don't ask who do you want

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Speaker 1: to be when you grow up? What are your passions?

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Speaker 3: What do you love doing?

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Speaker 1: It turns out from research, actually looking back to your

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Speaker 1: childhood is one of the easiest ways to access your

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Speaker 1: why you want to find out when you were on

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Speaker 1: the playground, what were you gravitating towards? Were you like

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Speaker 1: going crazy on the monkey bars, or were you like me,

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Speaker 1: like listening to what everyone was saying and trying to

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Speaker 1: understand human psychology and social groups, and oh is this

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Speaker 1: person thinking this? Or is that you know that was

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Speaker 1: me on the player It's like, okay, of course she

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Speaker 1: was going to become a cognitive scientist. But that's actually

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Speaker 1: one of the best ways of figuring out what that

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Speaker 1: core passion is. And look, our self worth is called

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Speaker 1: contingent self esteem. That naturally we like to easily anchor

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Speaker 1: to something because it almost feels uncomfortable to just anchor

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Speaker 1: it to existence, which is what all of us should

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Speaker 1: do at the end of the day. By virtue of

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Speaker 1: just existing, we should be worthy. But as humans, we

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Speaker 1: are getting signals from everywhere that we need to justify

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Speaker 1: our existence, we need to justify our presence. And it's

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Speaker 1: so interesting because I think someone reached out to me,

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Speaker 1: this guy named Scott. He was a human rights lawyer,

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Speaker 1: Harvard trained, Rhodes scholar, super accomplished so many accolades. To

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Speaker 1: your point about getting that external validation, that was what

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Speaker 1: he was getting most of his life as he went

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Speaker 1: through his career trajectory, and then he got hit with

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Speaker 1: terrible long COVID, totally incapacitated, so he was suffering from

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Speaker 1: severe brain fog. He was unable to even read a

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Speaker 1: sentence of a book for the longest time. He was

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Speaker 1: experiencing nausea, terrible, terrible symptoms, and so bad that he

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Speaker 1: had to take permanent leave from his work as a

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Speaker 1: human rights lawyer. He listened to my ted talk and

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Speaker 1: I had talked about this what versus why distinction, and

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Speaker 1: I heard from him. He couldn't type, so he sent

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Speaker 1: me a voice memo. I remember, and I was listening

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Speaker 1: to my phone. He said, I asked myself what my

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Speaker 1: why was, and it was advocating for underrepresented people, people

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Speaker 1: who don't have a voice. And so then I asked myself,

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Speaker 1: with my newly constrained life that I live, how can

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Speaker 1: I still express that why? And he realized he still

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Speaker 1: could by advocating for the long hauler community.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: And so now he devotes all of the hours of

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Speaker 1: his day where he feels cognitively capable to advocating for

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Speaker 1: various legislation, talking to drug manufacturers, giving a voice to

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Speaker 1: all these humans whose lives had been upturned by long COVID,

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Speaker 1: who otherwise wouldn't feel represented. And I think that is

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Speaker 1: such a beautiful illustration of my hope with this insight.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmm. I love that. How many of you are

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Speaker 2: going to start trying that out to today, right, And

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Speaker 2: we've got to give it a go. We've got to

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Speaker 2: give it a go, you know. I always I feel

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Speaker 2: like there's so much good advice out there now, and

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Speaker 2: it's like Maya's book is packed with these incredible insights,

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, the biggest mistake we can make is, God,

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Speaker 2: that's a really cool idea, and then it just goes

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Speaker 2: over our head. It's like that ability to stop and

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Speaker 2: pause and say wow, Like Maya's just repeated this idea

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Speaker 2: like three times because of how powerful it is and

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Speaker 2: given us multiple examples, whether it's a real life story,

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Speaker 2: whether it's cognitive neuroscience, whether it's looking at it from

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Speaker 2: a practical point of view, and it makes sense. And

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Speaker 2: so I encourage each and every one of you when

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Speaker 2: you walk out of here, try and try and apply

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Speaker 2: it to a real life situation. I was also reflecting

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Speaker 2: that when I think about all the people I look

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Speaker 2: up to, Yeah, they all reacted incredibly well to bad circumstances.

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Speaker 2: So anyone that I admire or am inspired by. And

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Speaker 2: this could be a family member, it could be a

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Speaker 2: public figure, it could be anyone in your life. Right,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't have to be someone well known. Anyone that

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Speaker 2: I look up to had something horrific happened to them

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Speaker 2: and they somehow turned it into the best thing that

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Speaker 2: ever happened to them. Yeah, And when you study people's

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Speaker 2: lives closely, and I'm sure people have that in their families.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure if you think about your parents and aunts

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Speaker 2: and uncles, or you think about ancestors who just did

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Speaker 2: incredible things that we don't even know how they lived

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Speaker 2: through times like that, it doesn't what's the difference between

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Speaker 2: someone who has something bad happened to them and transforms

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Speaker 2: it into a superpower, yeah, and someone who has something

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Speaker 2: bad happened to them and doesn't have that ability, Like,

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Speaker 2: what's the difference, Because I think we all feel both

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Speaker 2: of those things. I've had terrible things happened to me,

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Speaker 2: and there have been times where I'm like, all right,

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Speaker 2: time to throw in the towel. It's all over. Forget

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Speaker 2: about it, and then there's times when tough stuff happens

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Speaker 2: and I'm able to what's the difference?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I have really good news for you, because

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Speaker 1: as someone who started off being very bad at responding

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Speaker 1: to these negative events and who I think has made

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Speaker 1: incredible progress, this is a malleable trait in us, and

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Speaker 1: I think the difference is in perspective. So I'll say

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Speaker 1: a couple things. The first is, we have this funny

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Speaker 1: little trick our brains play on us when it comes

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Speaker 1: to how we think about who will be moving forward.

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Speaker 1: So it's called the end of history illusion, and basically

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Speaker 1: what it says is, while we fully acknowledge that we've

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Speaker 1: changed considerably in the past. So if you were to

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Speaker 1: show me pictures of violinists like eight year old violinist Maya, teenager,

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Speaker 1: oh gosh, cringe, teenager Maya college, we have this Yeah, actually,

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Speaker 1: right now I thought we were friends, Jane, and then

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Speaker 1: you know, twenty something, I'll say, I would say, oh

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Speaker 1: my gosh, I am so different from that person. Do

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Speaker 1: not even show me, like, I'm going to try to

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Speaker 1: create as much emotional distance as I can between you know, current.

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Speaker 3: And past Maya.

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Speaker 1: But then Funnily enough, if you were to ask me, well,

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Speaker 1: how much you plan on changing moving forward.

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Speaker 3: I'll be like, nope, finished product. What you see is

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Speaker 3: what you get.

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Speaker 2: This is it.

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Speaker 1: And researchers have said that we falsely believe that the

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Speaker 1: present is this watershed moment in which we become the

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Speaker 1: person we will be for the rest of our lives.

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Speaker 1: And again, it is just this funny little quirk in

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Speaker 1: the way that our brains have evolved. And the reason

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Speaker 1: that this is relevant to change is that we become

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Speaker 1: different people on the other side of change. The titles

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Speaker 1: not an accident, the other side of change. When a

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Speaker 1: big change happens to us, it also leads to lasting

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Speaker 1: change within us. And these big seismic anvil falling from

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Speaker 1: the sky moments they accelerate those internal transformations. We come

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Speaker 1: out the other side with new values and new perspectives

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Speaker 1: and new capabilities, new ways of seeing the world around

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Speaker 1: us and ourselves or maybe our fan or maybe our

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Speaker 1: family history, or maybe the shame we felt about some

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Speaker 1: part of our childhood. Whatever it is, it is possible

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Speaker 1: for us to emerge a new person. And so the

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Speaker 1: difference that I've come to see even in myself is

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Speaker 1: now when I'm feeling daunted at the outset of a

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Speaker 1: change and my old reflexes kick in and I think, oh,

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Speaker 1: I can't possibly handle what's up ahead. I'm not strong enough,

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Speaker 1: I don't have the right resources around me, I don't

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Speaker 1: have the right vantage point, I don't.

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Speaker 3: Have the right values. Whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: I now think the Maya that's actually going to have

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Speaker 1: to engage with every part of this process is actually

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Speaker 1: going to be different from the person she is today,

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Speaker 1: And that is so empowering. Like when you're feeling daunted

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Speaker 1: at the outset of change, just know, and I know

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Speaker 1: people in this room who have undergone incredible transformations as

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Speaker 1: a result of the changes they went through, they would

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Speaker 1: never have been able to predict who they would have become.

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Speaker 1: And we know also from research, we are bad affective forecasters,

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Speaker 1: really bad at predicting how we will think and feel

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Speaker 1: about events in the future. And so that I think

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Speaker 1: is the sole trait that people have who are really resilient.

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Speaker 1: They understand that they too are changing as a result

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Speaker 1: of their circumstances, and they are introspective throughout. They think, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm noticing this change has revealed to me that I

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Speaker 1: have a certain value or belief.

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Speaker 3: Is this holding me back? Is it problematic?

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Speaker 1: Maybe this change is giving me a rare opportunity to

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Speaker 1: revisit that belief. I shouldn't hold it as sacred, I

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Speaker 1: should interrogate it. And so it's been uplifting. And I,

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Speaker 1: even in writing the book, saw this transformation within me

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Speaker 1: as I was undergoing an unexpected change in my personal

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Speaker 1: life that I write about in the final chapter. And

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Speaker 1: so I fully believe it now, you know, having seen

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Speaker 1: it happen within myself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you were telling me that just before you

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Speaker 2: walked on. And not to get into details, but you're

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Speaker 2: telling me that you've literally been reading your own book.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, during new change that's happening.

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Speaker 3: While not because I'm a narcissist, but.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I see how that came out now.

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Speaker 3: And then I listened to my podcast. I'm just kidding.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you why I was reading my book. The

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Speaker 1: last month of my life was awful. There were unexpected

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Speaker 1: challenges in my family when it came to health. And

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Speaker 1: just one example, I don't want to get too emotional,

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Speaker 1: is that my beloved aunt, her stage four cancer return

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Speaker 1: for a third time. Which is just very sad, right,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what's going to happen, and I love

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Speaker 1: her dearly. And as a person who had been writing

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Speaker 1: this book about Unexpected change for three and a half years,

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Speaker 1: I think I was engaging in magical thinking.

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Speaker 3: Jay.

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Speaker 1: I was like, all right, I did the change thing,

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Speaker 1: like I had the formative experience in childhood. And as

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Speaker 1: I was writing the book, I was struggling to start

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Speaker 1: a family with my husband. That was my second big change,

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Speaker 1: and like just going to wipe my hands clean, change over,

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Speaker 1: you know, And then change was thrown my way and

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Speaker 1: it was so hard and so destabilizing, and I just

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Speaker 1: remember thinking, in that moment, you have gained so much

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Speaker 1: wisdom from the people who invited you into their lives.

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Speaker 1: For years, for this book, I interviewed people on repeated

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Speaker 1: occasions over multiple years, just to understand so deeply their

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Speaker 1: psyche and their life story. And I was like, what

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Speaker 1: a shame it would be if you do not benefit

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Speaker 1: from that wisdom in this moment, if you don't use

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Speaker 1: those same science based strategies you're telling everyone else to use.

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to just talk the talk. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to walk the walk, and so I still remember this

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Speaker 1: one night. I was sitting in my living room and

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Speaker 1: my husband, Jimmy, and I were just spiraling. We were

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Speaker 1: doing the thing everyone does in the face of uncertain change.

434
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 1: We were starting to catastrophize. Our anxiety was rising and

435
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,679
Speaker 1: we could feel it in our bodies. Our hearts were racing,

436
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 1: and everything was looking negative. And I remember I pulled

437
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 1: out there's one chapter of the book I devote entirely

438
00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 1: to rumination.

439
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,680
Speaker 3: Separate note. I have a PhD in rumination.

440
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 1: Not an academic not an academic version, but the lived version.

441
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,440
Speaker 1: I am very skilled in waking up in the middle

442
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 1: of the night and thinking about things, you know, till

443
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,679
Speaker 1: they drive me crazy. And I just remember reading some

444
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 1: of these words that I'd written because they hit me

445
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 1: even more in that moment when I feel I needed

446
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 1: them most. And I was able to actually effectively use

447
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,680
Speaker 1: these strategies and they help me in a time of need.

448
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 3: And I it was such a trying time.

449
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 1: I was like, how am I going to get the

450
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,679
Speaker 1: energy to get to like do this book tour. But

451
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 1: I turned the ship around, folks, I did, and I'm

452
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 1: here with you right now, and I'm so full of joy,

453
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 1: and I think one of the reasons why you're seeing, oh,

454
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:46,120
Speaker 1: I'm so sweet. One of the reasons I was talking

455
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 1: about this with Jay beforehand, that you are seeing me

456
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: filled with so much joy is that one first of

457
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: all health stuff just puts everything into perspective. It just

458
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 1: right sizes every small or big problem that you're sorry,

459
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: let me just let me say it. Really getting emotional

460
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 1: health challenges put everything into perspective immediately, And so I

461
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 1: instantly had clarity about what this book tour was all about,

462
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 1: and it was that I had written a book for

463
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 1: people who are struggling with exactly what I was struggling

464
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 1: with for the last three weeks. And it renewed my

465
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: faith in the importance of storytelling, in the importance of

466
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: distilling science and ways that are easy for people to understand,

467
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 1: and for just connecting with my fellow human beings. And

468
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,399
Speaker 1: there's been so much healing that's happened, even in just

469
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 1: this past week, meeting people from all over the country.

470
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: Right a woman came up to me and said, you know,

471
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: she looked to be about in her late thirties. She

472
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: was diagnosed with early onset Parkinson's, so she was dealing

473
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 1: with that and another person had been in a terrible

474
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: car crash and she was dealing with the repercussions of that,

475
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,439
Speaker 1: and it's just it's just really touched my heart to

476
00:24:53,480 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 1: be in conversation with people going through this stuff.

477
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 2: So beautiful as I'm listening to you, and I'm so

478
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 2: glad that you did share that. I didn't know if

479
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 2: you were going to, but I'm glad you did because

480
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 2: I don't think there's any better test of doing the

481
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 2: work than doing it when it's happening right now. Yeah,

482
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 2: And for those of us that share insight, or share research,

483
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 2: or give advice or help people through things, it's only

484
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 2: when you're going through that exact same thing yourself that

485
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 2: the advice either stands true it doesn't.

486
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you said that, because I want to

487
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,120
Speaker 1: share an example of a time when I didn't want

488
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 1: to do the work and I ended up doing it

489
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 1: and it really paid off.

490
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 3: Okay, So long story short.

491
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: For years and years and years, my husband and I

492
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: were on this journey to start a family, and we

493
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 1: experienced so many obstacles and disappointments and heartbreaks over the years,

494
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 1: and a miscarriage with our surrogate and about a year

495
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 1: and a half later, we were just over the moon

496
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: because we found out that we were going to be

497
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 1: having identical twin girls. We were we were just so happy, like,

498
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,159
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, how amazing that this has now happened.

499
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 1: It's like a blessing given the first pregnancy loss. And

500
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 1: we saw two healthy, beating hearts. And then five hours

501
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: later we found out that our surrogate had miscarried again.

502
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 3: And it was.

503
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: To go from such a high high to such a

504
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: low low within just a couple hours was so jarring

505
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: for my nervous system. I was like, I remember telling

506
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: my husband Jimmy, I'm like, we need to leave our apartment,

507
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: Like I just need to get fresh air. I don't

508
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: know how to tolerate sort of the emotional complexity of

509
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 1: this moment and all that I was grieving. You know.

510
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: We talked about identity loss right. Being a mom was

511
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 1: one of the earliest identities that I ever aspired to have,

512
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: and society always told me that in order to be

513
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 1: a full person, I needed to have kids, and for

514
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: that reason, I felt like it was a massive threat

515
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: to hear about this this loss, and I remember getting

516
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: into bed early that night, putting the covers over me

517
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 1: and just feeling really really sad, and my husband Jimmy

518
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: comes in.

519
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 3: Bless him.

520
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 1: He goes may ma's his pet name for me, Let's

521
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: name five things were really grateful for. And I'm like, oh,

522
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: hell no, bro, you take your Instagram bs, you go

523
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: into the corner and your toxic positivity. There is no

524
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: space for that in our bedroom right now. And I

525
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: was so ticked off. JA.

526
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm not doing this. This is so annoying.

527
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 1: But there was something so sweet and innocent about Jimmy's request,

528
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 1: and I also thought, Okay, also, if I do this,

529
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 1: maybe I'll just get him off my back.

530
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 3: Let me just do this thing now.

531
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 1: Mind you, Jimmy's a software engineer, so what he did

532
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: not know is that he was engaging me in that

533
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 1: moment in what's called a self affirmation exercise. Really fun

534
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: to be married to a cognitive scientist. Let me tell you.

535
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: A self affirmation exercise is when you articulate all the

536
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: things that bring your life value and meaning that are

537
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: not being threatened by the change you're going through. So

538
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: if you're in a tough spot in your relationship, you

539
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 1: might focus on your spiritual life. If you're having a

540
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 1: rough go of it at work, you might focus on

541
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: how meaningful your community is to you. What the affirmation

542
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: exercise does is that it contextualizes what you're going through,

543
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 1: and it actually reduces things like denial because when you

544
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: feel like when you don't feel like your whole identity

545
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: is under threat from this change, you can embrace the

546
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: news more easily and actually start to cope with it.

547
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: It also leads to greater resilience, less anxiety. There's all

548
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: sorts of wellbeing outcomes associated with a self affirmation exercise.

549
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: So anyway, Jimmy comes in and he asked me to

550
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 1: do this thing, and I'm like stubbornly like okay, fine,

551
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: and you know, the first item on my list, I

552
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: was like, okay, well, I'm really grateful for.

553
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 3: You, you know, like.

554
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: You know, hear the love of my life and you're

555
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: so wonderful. But then this list just flowed out of me.

556
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful to be an aunt to my six

557
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: nieces and nephews. What a joy that I get to

558
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: go into the closet of our apartment and talk to

559
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: people all over the world about their incredible stories of change.

560
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: Like never in my it was not on my Bingo

561
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: card that I that this was ever going to get

562
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: to be my life, that I got to interview people

563
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: and be interviewed by people where you have such incredibly

564
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: edifying conversations. I love my workouts with my Zoom trainer,

565
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: Like we talk about the Bachelor and love is Blind

566
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: and it's just so much fun to gossip about all

567
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: this stuff and it feeds a different part of my soul.

568
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: I always say, celebrity gossip is my love language. And

569
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: then I'm like, and I'm grateful for the California son,

570
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: and it just it was like effortless. It just started

571
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: to flow out at me, and I swear to God,

572
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: something magical happened in that moment. I had been so

573
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: single mindedly focused on achieving this goal of mine, and

574
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of you can relate to this.

575
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 1: We set our minds on something and we developed tunnel vision.

576
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 1: We're like, until I get this outcome, like nothing can

577
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: rest That I had lost perspective on how otherwise rich

578
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: and multi dimensional my life was. I had forgotten that, yes,

579
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: I was in pursuit of motherhood, but there was still

580
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 1: so much else that defined me. There was still so

581
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 1: much that made me a valuable human and were sources

582
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: of joy in my life, and there was so much

583
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: to be grateful for. And so did I go to

584
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: bed over joyed that night, of course not. But did

585
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: I go to bed feeling more whole, Yes, I did.

586
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: And I'm so grateful that I forced myself in that

587
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: moment to do the uncomfortable thing because it really helped

588
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: me in the longer term. And Jimmy slept on the couch,

589
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: yeah exactly, yeah, and then we hired the divorce lawyers.

590
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 2: That good old Jimmy. That's good for Jay now, even

591
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 2: for Jimmy to have the like courage to even say

592
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 2: that to you in that moment, I was like, oh God,

593
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:17,719
Speaker 2: I was a scared boy. I feel like I just

594
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 2: learned this yesterday. And so if I sound if you

595
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 2: hear this, then you go, yeah, I've heard that a

596
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 2: million times, then I'm glad you learned it quicker than

597
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 2: I did. I literally learned this like two weeks ago.

598
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 2: I was in India, back at the monastery that I

599
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 2: used to live at, and I was sharing something I

600
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 2: thought i'd learned with my teacher. And he has this

601
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 2: really remarkable way of teaching me back without making me

602
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 2: feel like I'm stupid, but it's kind of like, yeah,

603
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 2: you're stupid, Like you got that wrong, and you've You've

604
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 2: just given me the science to back up what he

605
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 2: was saying to me. So up until like two weeks ago,

606
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,719
Speaker 2: I thought you had to somehow figure out how to

607
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 2: be grateful for what happened to you. We always hear

608
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 2: that be grateful for what happened. You know, the curse

609
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 2: becomes a gift and the nightmare becomes the dream, and

610
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 2: you know, like be grateful for what happened to you.

611
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 2: And I've always felt that you just had to somehow

612
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 2: figure that out through like raw tolerance, beating your head over,

613
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 2: you know, whatever it took, Like you just had to

614
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 2: figure our way, and if you were deep enough and

615
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 2: if you were profound enough, then one day you could

616
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 2: be grateful for like terrible things happening to you. And

617
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 2: I felt like that's what it meant to have, like

618
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 2: you know, God's childlike level forgiveness and level of acceptance.

619
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 2: And he just said this to me, He goes I

620
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 2: was saying that to him. I was like, yeah, I

621
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 2: really believe that, you know, one day I'll be really

622
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 2: grateful for this, and I'll be grateful for what happened

623
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 2: to me. And he said, he said, you don't have

624
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 2: to be grateful for what happens to you. You have

625
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 2: to be grateful for what you have after what happens

626
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 2: to you. And it was just this subtle, tiny change

627
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 2: that completely freed me of this pressure that I'd put

628
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 2: myself under. Is if you had to be grateful, yeah,

629
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 2: for not being able to have children, or you have

630
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 2: to be grateful for having an injury when you wanted

631
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 2: to be a violinist as a kid, It's like, no,

632
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 2: you don't have to be grateful for that that you could.

633
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 2: You could pretend to maybe for a day, but you know,

634
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 2: you've just freed us as well by giving us the

635
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 2: science mind. And that's why I love your work so much,

636
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 2: because you have this profound ability to take wisdom, have

637
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 2: the signs to back it up, the resets to back

638
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 2: it up, and then make it sound so simple, even

639
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 2: though you're so much smarter than all of us, but

640
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 2: you know, make it sound and that's what you do

641
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 2: so brilliantly in this book. It's like we're like wow,

642
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 2: like you're actually speaking to us and speaking to our

643
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 2: hearts and speaking our language. Uh. And I guess you

644
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 2: had all this time to practice on software engineer Jimmy,

645
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 2: so you know you've had a gain.

646
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 3: Oh god, No, yeah, just a follow on to what

647
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 3: you said. I think that's so spot on.

648
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: And the people that I interviewed for the other side

649
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: of change, by and large, aren't happy that they had

650
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: to go through what they went through. They would not

651
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: will their changes over again. Who would Who would invite

652
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: illness into their lives and a heartbreak and loss? I mean,

653
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: that would be kind of strange. But they are extremely grateful,

654
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 1: all of them, for the person they became as a

655
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,439
Speaker 1: result of the change they went through. And I feel

656
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,399
Speaker 1: like that's perfectly echoed by this teacher of yours. They

657
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: feel like they emerged with renewed confidence, a renewed relationship

658
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,280
Speaker 1: with their family, a new sense of what was important,

659
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 1: a new perspective on their self worth and where to

660
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 1: actually anchor it, A new way of seeing attachment and

661
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,399
Speaker 1: their closest relationships.

662
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 3: That's the part they're grateful for.

663
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: And I love the honesty of that because I often say, like,

664
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: I'm allergic to two things, soy and platitudes. I'm always

665
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: skeptical when people talk about silver linings and whatnot, and like, really.

666
00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 3: Are you sure?

667
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: Is that just something you tell yourself because it makes

668
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: you feel better. Where's the science to back it up?

669
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 3: You know?

670
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: And so it's so interesting because I was seeing I

671
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: wanted to write it. By the way, writing the Other

672
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 1: Side of Change pretty agnostic as to what I would find.

673
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: I identified people from all over the world that I

674
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: just found fascinating, and I interviewed them for a bunch

675
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 1: of years, and I didn't know their what lessons I

676
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: would learn. I didn't know what their stories would reveal,

677
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 1: which was an incredibly delightful process of exploration. By the way,

678
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: it was like me, like Maya the cognitive scientist in

679
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 1: a candy shop.

680
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 2: Literally.

681
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: I started to see this incredibly hopeful message emerge about change, right,

682
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 1: which is that people were grateful for the internal transformation

683
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 1: they went through. And I really felt this deeply, And

684
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 1: I was alluding to this before when I was writing

685
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 1: the final chapter of the book unexpectedly about my own

686
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: experience on this parent or trying to be a parent journey,

687
00:35:53,520 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 1: and I realized something really important. So I had very

688
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: slowly and very subconsciously been on my own internal evolution

689
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 1: and transformation on this topic. If you had asked me

690
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: on that night, when Jimmy asked me that incredibly annoying question,

691
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 1: is anything good ever going to come of this? I

692
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: would have said no. Will you ever feel whole as

693
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: a person if you don't have kids, Oh definitely not.

694
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: Will your life have enough color without kids?

695
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:25,919
Speaker 3: Oh, my gosh.

696
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: Absolutely all of those questions I would have said no to.

697
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 1: And yet here I am three years out and I

698
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: am child free today, and you are seeing the happiest,

699
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: most joyful, most curious, most hopeful version of Maya that

700
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: has ever existed. And I could never have seen that coming.

701
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 1: Because I thank you my dream was cut short, you know,

702
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: and you don't always anticipate that when a dream is

703
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 1: cut short, you'll still be grateful for what hapen. And

704
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 1: on the other side, exactly to your point, and so

705
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: witnessing that within me was very moving and very wildly unexpected,

706
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 1: I realized, by the way. So one of the chapters

707
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:13,439
Speaker 1: in the Other Side of Change is about a woman

708
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: who has to revisit her relationship with her family history.

709
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: It actually comes about through about of amnesia. It's like

710
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 1: one of the most fascinating tales I've come across, And

711
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: the idea of that chapter is it shows change can

712
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 1: actually serve as an important moment of revelation for all

713
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 1: of us. So when a really negative thing happens in

714
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: our lives, we can often think of it as a

715
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 1: personal apocalypse of sorts. The world that we once knew

716
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 1: that was so familiar and so comforting to us, so

717
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: comfortable as well, is no longer available. And interestingly, the

718
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 1: word apocalypse comes from the Greek word apocalypsis, which means revelation,

719
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:56,919
Speaker 1: And so the etymology is really instructive. Change can abend us, yes,

720
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 1: but it can also reveal things to us. And as

721
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 1: I was going on this journey of figuring out my

722
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: own relationship with motherhood and parenthood, I realized I did

723
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 1: have quite antiquated views that were fed to me, maybe

724
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 1: through my Indian American upbringing, right through cultural forces, through

725
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,720
Speaker 1: pop culture, through society, through the very special stigma reserved

726
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: for child free women that a woman's value was something

727
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: that was firmly attached to whether she had kids, whether

728
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:28,839
Speaker 1: she has kids. I mean, it's a stigma that still

729
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 1: very much exists today, and part of my process because

730
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 1: I talk in the book about how we cannot view

731
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: our beliefs and ideas as these sacred, immutable truths that

732
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 1: ought to never be examined. Most of our beliefs, most

733
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: of the ideas we have about the world were inherited subconsciously,

734
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: they were through They were in our childhood from caregivers,

735
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 1: and we had so much of our love wrapped up

736
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 1: in that caregiver that to challenge them, to question them

737
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,879
Speaker 1: would have been quite dangerous, emotionally dangerous for us.

738
00:38:58,320 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 3: Or we learned them from a.

739
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: Teacher that we so greatly admired, and because we were

740
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 1: more of a black and white thinker, we couldn't see

741
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 1: that there might be nuance. Or we learned it from

742
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 1: watching TV, or we learned it through who becomes famous

743
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: or not famous, And all of those ideas are worth

744
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: unwinding and unpacking, and change can give us this powerful

745
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,760
Speaker 1: moment where we take a step back and think, wow,

746
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: is this point of view worth revisiting? And so I

747
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,720
Speaker 1: credit ingrid this woman's story for giving me the courage

748
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 1: I needed to question some of these assumptions and to

749
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 1: now feel like, of course, I'm like a whole woman

750
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 1: in her you know, without kids like, how could I

751
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: have ever thought that? It seems preposterous now, but we

752
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 1: all grow up with these self limiting beliefs, and so

753
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,760
Speaker 1: I believe in the power of change to help unearth

754
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 1: what they are and then give us a chance to

755
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: question them.

756
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 2: Well said, Well said, Maya. We're running out of time,

757
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,720
Speaker 2: but I want to end with a little quick fire

758
00:39:58,840 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 2: about change.

759
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 3: Okay, I'll try every thing.

760
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 2: We always end every episode of my podcast with a

761
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 2: quick fire. But you've already done that before because you

762
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 2: came on the show four years ago.

763
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: And you've answered those questions.

764
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 2: So I'm going to give you. I'm going to give

765
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 2: you a new set of questions. So these questions have

766
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 2: to be answered in one sentence. All right. So the

767
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 2: first question is what is the first change people should

768
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,879
Speaker 2: choose after tonight.

769
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 3: Being present when they are with other people.

770
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 2: That's a great answer, Very good. All right, put your.

771
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 3: Phone away because that really right.

772
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 2: Now, keep filming so that so that more people.

773
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: And I'm not allowed to go on, but just know

774
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 1: that that is also evidence based.

775
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 2: Go ahead, do you want to tell us the let's okay,

776
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 2: all right, okay, okay, second question, the change that you're

777
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 2: happiest you made in the last twelve months.

778
00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: To care less what people I don't respect think of me. Yeah,

779
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: that's a really hard one. As still working on it.

780
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 1: I'm like, wait, but I just want can't we just

781
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 1: all feel love for one another? It's like such a

782
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: naive point of view, but I'm like, I just want

783
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:15,959
Speaker 1: people to love each other. And then it's just yeah,

784
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: and then you know, not looking at comments on the internet.

785
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 2: So question number three, something you're trying to change this year?

786
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: I am an extremely impatient person. Can I have a

787
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: few more sense?

788
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 2: You've been doing it for all of them without permission?

789
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 2: Why you asking now?

790
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 1: I'm extremely impatient. I for so long hated this part

791
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,439
Speaker 1: of my personality. Though, I think one thing that's really

792
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: helpful for everyone is to remember there's always two sides

793
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 1: to the coin on personality traits. So my impatience has

794
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: also really helped me in my work in the White

795
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: House and my work you know, at various places like that.

796
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: Impatience propels me to try to get stuff done, so

797
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 1: I try not to resent it too much, but I

798
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 1: think it would be really good for my overall well

799
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: being if I just like took a b So when

800
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 1: my you know, if my boss sends me a message

801
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 1: on like a Friday afternoon, that's like, hey, period, don't

802
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 1: freak out.

803
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 3: You can wait till Monday. It's going to be okay.

804
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: Whereas I tend to kind of like need resolution as

805
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: quickly as possible.

806
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:19,879
Speaker 2: That's I think we can all relate.

807
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just want closure.

808
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:29,320
Speaker 2: The smallest change that someone can make in their relationships.

809
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 1: Try not to impose your mental frame, your way of

810
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: seeing the world onto the other person. So before you

811
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 1: talk at them, deeply listen to them, and then you

812
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 1: will be able to find common ground.

813
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 2: Great answers, Well, you're like, I'm.

814
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:46,280
Speaker 3: Trying to be picky.

815
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 2: This is really good. This is the final question I

816
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 2: want to ask you. Okay, and this one go on.

817
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,399
Speaker 2: You can go on on it because I really want

818
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 2: to understand it. Do you believe that if we chose

819
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 2: more change we'd be better at dealing with change?

820
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 3: I love that question so much so.

821
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 1: The previous stop of this book tour was in San Francisco,

822
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,799
Speaker 1: and Michael Lewis was moderating the conversation, so the author

823
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:15,919
Speaker 1: and journalist and someone in the audience asked a question

824
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: actually about the uncertainty around AI and as a mom,

825
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,399
Speaker 1: she was thinking, what do I tell my kid right,

826
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 1: so that they learn to embrace change, Because that's actually

827
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,879
Speaker 1: kind of what you're asking, right, How can we take

828
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 1: strategic steps to embrace change more? And he gave a

829
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 1: fantastic piece of advice. He said, take an improv comedy class.

830
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:40,720
Speaker 1: Get yourself off balance. That's really the kind of change

831
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 1: that's really healthy for us is to go outside of

832
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 1: our comfort zone, to test ourselves and to be in

833
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 1: almost this perpetual state of unease, because that's when we

834
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 1: flex all these muscles, all these abilities that we had

835
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,280
Speaker 1: that may have been laying dormant because we were always

836
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 1: choosing what was comfortable, and we get to see them

837
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: on display and think, oh, well, like maybe I am

838
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 1: a little bit more resilient than I thought. And I

839
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 1: think it's so great for us to introduce change in

840
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 1: the form of challenge when we learn a new skill,

841
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 1: for example. So you inter you interviewed Chris Hemsworth for

842
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: your podcast and I was his brain coach on this

843
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: show called Limitless, and I was so inspired by his attitude.

844
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 3: You know, this guy is like.

845
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 1: One of the most famous actors in the world. He

846
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: could just sit back and relax, And he was telling

847
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 1: this audience at the London premiere, I think we all

848
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 1: need to be a little bit more uncomfortable. He's like,

849
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 1: I seek out discomfort wherever I can. He's like, you know,

850
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 1: with these nests, thermosats to adapt that adapt to the

851
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 1: ideal temperature, and smart white, like everything's meant to be

852
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 1: customized so that it.

853
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 3: Brings ease into our lives.

854
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 1: And Chris was saying, I feel like that's the only

855
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: vehicle for growth is to be in these uncertain, uncomfort situations.

856
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 3: That's the only way.

857
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 1: The episode was all about flexing our brain's capacity for plasticity, right,

858
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 1: and building cognitive reserve so that as we age, we

859
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: feel the impact less.

860
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:11,359
Speaker 3: Again.

861
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: I was just so inspired to hear him say that,

862
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: because again he could just kick back and be like, okay,

863
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,320
Speaker 1: I'm good, and instead, you know, for our episode, he

864
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: learned the drums and played with Ed Sheeran in front

865
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 1: of seventy thousand people, So we don't have to do

866
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 1: that version.

867
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 3: I'm not doing that version.

868
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 1: My smaller commitment to introduce a little bit of change

869
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: into my life was re picking up learning Mandarin, so

870
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 1: my husband's Chinese American and his relatives don't speak English.

871
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: And I took a brief hiatus, namely three and a

872
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 1: half years while I wrote this book where I stopped

873
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 1: taking those lessons, and I'm now committing to starting again

874
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:45,439
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six.

875
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 2: Well, Min, I'm so happy that you took that brief

876
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:52,439
Speaker 2: hiatus and put together this amazing book, The Other Side

877
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 2: of Change. As I said, when you pick up this

878
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 2: book today, you're not picking up just a book. You're

879
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 2: picking up interview research, hundreds and thousands of hours of

880
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 2: other people's stories, lived experience, ups and downs, challenges, breakthroughs, discomfort,

881
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 2: and you get to invite that all into your life.

882
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 2: And as someone who grew up as an avid reader

883
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:21,919
Speaker 2: of nonfiction and true stories, I think what Maya's put

884
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 2: together in this incredible book is an invitation to all

885
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 2: of us to study the lives of people just like

886
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 2: us who have walked the path of challenges that we

887
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 2: either have in our life right now or may have

888
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 2: in the future, and gain probably the most important skill

889
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 2: humans could potentially ever develop, which is dealing with change.

890
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 2: There's probably no if there's one skill you dedicate twenty

891
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 2: twenty six too, it should probably be dealing with change.

892
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 2: There is no more important skill, not Mandarin, sorry.

893
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 3: No, not anything else.

894
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:58,800
Speaker 2: It's dealing with change. And so this book is dedicated

895
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 2: to that mayas dedicated in half years and the people

896
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 2: that are in the book have spent decades living it through.

897
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, totally.

898
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 2: And so from the bottom of my heart, hope you'll

899
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 2: grab a copy. I'm so proud of you and grateful

900
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 2: for just how you walk through life, and even just

901
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 2: your expertise and all the answers you gave today was

902
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 2: just second to none. It was unbelievable to learn from

903
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 2: you and listen to you. I'm always humbold when I'm

904
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 2: around you. Oh thank you, sir, and I'm so grateful

905
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 2: that you let me support you. I'm going to let

906
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,759
Speaker 2: everyone ask you all their amazing questions now that I'm

907
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 2: sure they're dying to ask you. And thank you again

908
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 2: for letting me be a part of this. Give it up,

909
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 2: my error. If you love this episode, you'll enjoy my

910
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 2: interview with doctor Daniel Ahman on how to change your

911
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 2: life by changing your brain.

912
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 4: If we want a healthy mind, it actually starts with

913
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 4: a healthy brain. You know, I've had the blessing or

914
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 4: the curse to scam. Over a thousand convicted felons and

915
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 4: over one hundred murderers, and their brains are very damaged.