1 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: Hi. 2 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 2: I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, 3 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 2: and speaker. 4 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 3: And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer, 5 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 3: and course creator. We are two working parents who love 6 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 3: our careers and our families. 7 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 2: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about 8 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 2: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun, 9 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 2: from figuring out childcare to mapping out long. 10 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: Term career goals. 11 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 2: We want you to get the most out of life. 12 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: Welcome the best of both worlds. This is Laura. 13 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 2: This episode is airing in mid April of twenty twenty six. 14 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 2: We're going to be talking about the time stories that 15 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 2: people tell. I have found that time is very much 16 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 2: subject to a storytelling impulse, where bits of evidence point 17 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 2: to a conclusion. Negative moments have a tendency to stand 18 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 2: out in the mind more than positive ones. So people 19 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 2: often write themselves very negative stories about where the time goes. 20 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 2: But I have found that when we track our time 21 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 2: and see the data, we often discover that life is 22 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:16,919 Speaker 2: not nearly as bad as. 23 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: We might have thought. 24 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, I love data. I think data is underrated and 25 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 3: actually one of the things I really love about your 26 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 3: books and we are going to be doing some more 27 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 3: dedicated discussion of various books. But there's data in the 28 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 3: stuff that you put out, and some of that data 29 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 3: has to do with time stories. Exactly what we're going 30 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 3: to talk about today, because it's so easy is to 31 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 3: be like, oh, my life is all work or I 32 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,680 Speaker 3: never sleep or things like that, but without numbers, it's 33 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 3: just kind of meaningless. So I love how you talked 34 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 3: about this in Big Time, and just because I can't resist, 35 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 3: I'm just to let listeners know that it is available 36 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 3: for ordering, not even just pre orders. 37 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 4: In two weeks from when the. 38 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: Stays yes so exciting my book birthday yes is May, 39 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 2: so another one will be out there in the world. 40 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 2: It's so fun to see it, like we got the 41 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,679 Speaker 2: first boxes from the warehouse and open it and there 42 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:09,119 Speaker 2: it is. 43 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: The book you've been working on for two years exists 44 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: now like as a book that people could read. 45 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 4: So I don't know, and it's so good. It's so 46 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:17,519 Speaker 4: like I don't know. 47 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 3: Everything you write is always very readable, and you would 48 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,399 Speaker 3: think I know everything you have to say, and yet 49 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 3: I learned things reading Big Time, So that is saying something. 50 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 3: So even if you think you've read all of her 51 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 3: stuff and what can she possibly offer. I think you'll 52 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 3: still really enjoy Big Time. 53 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: Oh well, thank you, Sarah, I appreciate it. But yeah. 54 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 2: One of the this is sort of related to in 55 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 2: the opening chapter of Big Time, which is about time tracking. 56 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 2: I had two hundred and seventy nine people track their 57 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 2: time for a week, and they answered questions before and 58 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 2: after the week about how they felt about their time. 59 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 2: And I think it's two hundred and seventy nine. It 60 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 2: didn't double check that well, but were talking about data. 61 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 2: Maybe my data is wrong here, but anyway, I asked 62 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 2: them how they felt about their timevarious ways, and their 63 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 2: sense of time satisfaction actually rose significantly over the course 64 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 2: of the week that they had spent tracking their time, 65 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 2: and on some of them. That might be counterintuitive because 66 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 2: you might think that people would see where the time 67 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: goes and feel bad about it, like oh, look it's 68 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 2: spent three hours watching YouTube videos, or look at all 69 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 2: the time I wasted or what have you. 70 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: But I found that wasn't actually true. Like what happened? 71 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 2: The agreement scores for the statement generally I have enough 72 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 2: time for the things I want to do rose twenty 73 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 2: five percent in a week, and some of that is 74 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 2: people feeling more accountable for their time, but it was 75 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 2: also that seeing where the time went changed the narrative 76 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 2: that life is not terrible. It's probably not perfect, but 77 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 2: a lot of problems. 78 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 4: It's definitely not perfect. 79 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no. 80 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 2: But the problems that exist, many of them can be 81 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 2: made better with small tweaks, not total lifestyle overhauls. I mean, 82 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 2: we're talking things like people like I never exercised, and 83 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 2: then they track their time and it's like, oh, I 84 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 2: exercised twice this week. 85 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: I'd like to do more, but that's like, okay, well. 86 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 2: Can we find another thirty minutes somewhere in your time 87 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 2: to exercise. 88 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: It's a tweak. 89 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 2: It's not that we need to throw everything out in 90 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 2: a big trash bag and start over totally. 91 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I well, we're going to go through specific 92 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 3: myths on this episode today. But I just feel like 93 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 3: there are so many areas that are where it's very 94 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 3: common for people to feel like they have to reinvent 95 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 3: the wheel. And you're right, they may recognize actually, one 96 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 3: of the most valuable things you can figure out is 97 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 3: that you're halfway there, because it does lessen the demand 98 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 3: to get you where you want to be. 99 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 2: Absolutely so, Sarah, are you tracking your time these days 100 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 2: you have in the recent. 101 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,559 Speaker 3: Past, Yeah, I'm not currently tracking my time. I don't 102 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 3: do it as a continuous exercise. I really like to 103 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 3: do it about on a seasonal basis, because seasons for 104 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 3: me are when the time patterns in my life tend 105 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 3: to change the most. The kids go to school, they're 106 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 3: out of school, they're back in school, it's holiday season, 107 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 3: et cetera. And so for me, once every season or 108 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 3: quintile that's how I love to break up the year 109 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 3: is how often I like to do it. And I've 110 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 3: done it for a week or two weeks, but I 111 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 3: don't feel the poll to do it on a continuous basis. 112 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 3: But that said, when I do it, there's never been 113 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 3: a time when I didn't get something out of that. 114 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 4: It's not to the extent. 115 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 3: Where I feel like I want to, like it's not 116 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 3: worth it to me to do it one hundred percent 117 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 3: of the time, but it's absolutely worth it for me 118 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 3: to keep revisiting it again and again. 119 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 2: And you tried doing it with a time app this 120 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 2: in the recent past, right. 121 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, I struggled. I've done it on paper before, but 122 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 3: I tend to fizzle out after like two days or so, 123 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 3: and so I had more success using the toggle app 124 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 3: on my phone that's spelled TGGL. I just used the 125 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:46,359 Speaker 3: free version. And what I like about it is like 126 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 3: there's a widget that shows up on your home screen, 127 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 3: So every time you pick up your phone, it's going 128 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 3: to remind you that you are possibly behind in your 129 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 3: time tracking, Like I tried to make it. Oh, it's 130 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 3: a habit, and every time I change what I'm doing, 131 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 3: I'll check my phone. But I have this backup, which 132 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 3: is like at some point I'm going to pick up 133 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 3: my phone and be like, oops, toggles going, and probably 134 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 3: it hasn't been twelve hours since I picked up my phone, 135 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 3: because unfortunately, that's the reality we live in, and so 136 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,239 Speaker 3: I have a reasonable amount of time that I can update, 137 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 3: and so I found it much easier to do it 138 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 3: this way. And you guys know I love my analog tools, 139 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 3: so it slightly pains me to say that, but for me, 140 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 3: I found it to be just less friction. 141 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 2: And have you made any tweaks as a result of 142 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 2: looking at your time? I mean, I know you're so 143 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 2: conscious of where your time goes already, So I mean, 144 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 2: there wouldn't be huge life stylo overhauls, but were there 145 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 2: little things. 146 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. 147 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 3: I think the biggest thing is that I was sort 148 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 3: of telling myself the story that there's not time for 149 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 3: anything in the evenings or I'm too tired or like 150 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 3: this like bedtime rush, and there I recognize that like 151 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 3: a lot of times there isn't. There's often a late 152 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 3: night pickup, but my husband does that more often than 153 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 3: I do that. There's often like a stretch of like 154 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 3: two and a half or three hours where I'm no 155 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 3: longer in the chase kids around era. But your concept 156 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 3: of what you're doing doesn't always keep up with the reality. 157 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 3: And I'm like, oh, I could do something with this 158 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 3: time for myself, whether it's watch a TV show or 159 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 3: play a little bit of piano, Like it doesn't have 160 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 3: to be something high rout. But I think I just 161 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 3: became more aware of how things had changed and how 162 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 3: that time was more available to me than it had 163 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 3: been in the past. 164 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, and there can be a lot of time in there. 165 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm certainly seeing this with myself. Bedtime can 166 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 2: still sometimes be strung out, but especially if my husband 167 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 2: is putting Henry down, Like I can be out of 168 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 2: there at like eight forty five. I've brushed his teeth 169 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 2: and got him in his Jammy's and said good night. 170 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 2: And then it's rare that I go to bed before 171 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 2: ten forty five eleven, So there's like two hours. It's 172 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 2: a little broken up because at ten o'clock I need 173 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 2: to go make sure the other kids are moving toward bed. 174 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 2: There might be things like starting the dishwasher or picking 175 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 2: things up or small things that need to happen, but 176 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 2: those things don't take two hours. So figuring out how 177 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 2: to use that sort of eight forty five to ten 178 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 2: forty five on a weekday night, and I would say 179 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 2: a lot of it. Sometimes I get sucked into things online. 180 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 2: I mean, it still happens, but it's a challenging thing. 181 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, But even just that, like it's like a meta 182 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 3: awareness of like, Okay, not only I'm doing something, but 183 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 3: I like I'm seeing what I'm doing and I could 184 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 3: look back on what I did that it's odd that 185 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 3: we don't do more of that, considering like this is 186 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 3: our life, right, But I think I don't know for me. 187 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 3: That's what makes it so valuable that sounded really big. 188 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 3: But yeah, well I am still assuming. Yeah, I was 189 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 3: gonna say, are you still tracking your time? Laura? 190 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 2: I am still tracking my time eleven years in. We 191 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 2: hit eleven years right around now in April. 192 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: I think it was mid April. I don't know the 193 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: exact date. 194 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 2: I'd have to go back and look, but mid April 195 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 2: of twenty fifteen. And my original goal had been to 196 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 2: go for like a year, like I thought I could 197 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 2: track my time for a year and probably write something 198 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 2: about it, because that do something for a year is 199 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 2: the formula a lot of I guess stunt journalism, as 200 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 2: I call it, But so I did, and I did 201 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,959 Speaker 2: write about it. That was a good experience. I haven't 202 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 2: written much about it since, like the first year, I 203 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 2: wrote about the next ten not so much. But with 204 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 2: that I have not found it difficult to do it. 205 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 2: It's like so much of a habit now, and I 206 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 2: do it for the memory keeping that I think I 207 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 2: don't see a good reason to stop. There have been 208 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 2: some logistical challenges with it, so I didn't bring the 209 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 2: computer that I normally have my time log on with 210 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 2: me to the Glopagos over Christmas, but I just emailed 211 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 2: myself like every twelve hours or so, I would send 212 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 2: an email or sometimes it's a little longer than that, 213 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 2: but what I did, and then I would transferre that 214 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 2: all to a log when I came back, and that 215 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 2: worked reasonably well. So that's easy enough for travel. And yeah, 216 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 2: I mean I think that there have been some changes. 217 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: Yes, I guess eleven years is a long time. My 218 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: life has changed some. I probably work less than I 219 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: did at the beginning. 220 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,439 Speaker 2: I know the first year I was working about forty 221 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 2: hours on average, and I would say it's much more 222 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 2: in the between thirty and thirty five, depending on the. 223 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 3: Season these days, which I think some people might have 224 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 3: the inclination to say, oh, so you only work part time, 225 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 3: But I actually think I'd be curious how many people 226 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 3: who are in full time, especially knowledge work type jobs, 227 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 3: that are working a similar number of hours to you. 228 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thirty five basically is full time because if 229 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 2: you take any time off for lunch, if you ever 230 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 2: had like a dentist appointment in the week, and that 231 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 2: tends to me an average over the whole year as well. 232 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 2: I mean, I guess if I subtracted like four weeks 233 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 2: of vacation or whatever, I'd be higher, right, because I 234 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 2: work some during vacation weeks. So yes, it's like, how 235 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 2: if I work five to ten hours on a vacation week, 236 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 2: But then, so how would I count that? 237 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: I don't know. 238 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 2: Anyway, my average with all that is probably more like 239 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 2: thirty five than forty. But yeah, I would say a 240 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 2: lot of knowledge work jobs that you might call forty 241 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 2: hour week jobs that you might think of as forty 242 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 2: five fifty hour week jobs are probably more like thirty 243 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 2: five if you actually log it. 244 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 3: We're going to take a quick break, but I'm going 245 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 3: to give one of your interesting tenets about people who 246 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 3: claim to work many, many hours when we get back. 247 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 3: All right, we are back, and interestingly, you have found 248 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 3: that the people who claim to work the most hours 249 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 3: tend to be off by the highest percentage. 250 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 4: Is that correct. 251 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 2: That's one of my favorite studies ever that was looking 252 00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 2: at overestimated work weeks. 253 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: It's just a phenomena on that people are. 254 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 2: In competitive fields, Like nobody's going to talk about like, oh, yeah, 255 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 2: I work thirty five to forty hours a week, Like 256 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 2: I mean, they're not going to say that. So people 257 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 2: talk about fifty hour work weeks. Have they logged fifty hours. No, 258 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 2: but it sounds good. Then somebody else is saying, well, 259 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 2: I work more than that person, so clearly I'm working 260 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 2: sixty hours. And then it goes from there like, oh, yeah, 261 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 2: well sixty I'm working more than that person, so I 262 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 2: must be working seventy. 263 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: Very very few people work that much. 264 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 2: When I did the time diary study for I know 265 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 2: how she does it many years ago, the max somebody 266 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 2: worked was sixty nine hours, and that was somebody that 267 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 2: was an accountant that was in busy season. Most people 268 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 2: were less. About a third of people were under forty 269 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 2: hours a week. The average was forty four hours a week. 270 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 2: There was only a handful of was like maybe ten 271 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 2: fifteen women who were over sixty and for most of 272 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:55,839 Speaker 2: those there was a reason it was over sixty. Either 273 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 2: it was right before tax deadlines, or it was that 274 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 2: they were on a conference. For like, if you go 275 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 2: to a weekend conference, that is going to make you 276 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 2: have a longer work week that week, but you're probably 277 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 2: not doing that every week. So they're only a handful 278 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 2: that it was always going to be about that, and 279 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 2: even so it's sixty hours is not eighty. But yeah, 280 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 2: there's a study that people compared people's estimated work weeks 281 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 2: with time diaries and found out that the more people estimated, 282 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 2: the more off they were. People who are saying seventy 283 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 2: five hour work weeks were off by about twenty five hours. 284 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 3: Obviously, this is a lot, which is a whole, like 285 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 3: almost more than half a job's worth. 286 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:33,839 Speaker 1: Yeah. 287 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 2: Now, And even with the time diary study that I 288 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 2: did for Big Time, a lot of people found that 289 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 2: people will be like, well, I'm doing this because I've 290 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 2: read your work, Like the reason I got enrolled in 291 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 2: this project is because I read your work. And yet 292 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 2: I thought I was working seventy hours and I was 293 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 2: working fifty three on that week. Or I'm supposed to 294 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 2: be logging forty as part of my job, and I 295 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 2: logged thirty one and a half. And again, there may 296 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 2: have been other things that were a tip that week, 297 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 2: but it does suggest that we have a tendency to 298 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 2: perhaps view our longest days as typical, and we often 299 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 2: overcount small chunks of work. Like if you check email 300 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 2: six times on the weekend, that was probably not twelve hours. 301 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 2: It may have felt like it if you didn't want 302 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 2: to do it, but it might have been closer to 303 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 2: thirty minutes. 304 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's interesting because that's sort of like, oh, 305 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 3: constant availability can be draining and feel like working more 306 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 3: hours than you're actually or. 307 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: Than you're actually right on. 308 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 2: But it is people feel like I'm working hard and 309 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 2: feel like I'm working long, and I'm not happy with it. 310 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 2: But that's a different thing than the number. I found 311 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 2: that sometimes the number is actually liberating. I mean, not 312 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 2: that you need to share it with people if you 313 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 2: live in a work in a competitive environment, but knowing 314 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 2: that I generally work let's say fifty hours a week, 315 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 2: and there are one hundred and sixty eight hours in 316 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 2: a week. So if I'm sleeping eight hours a night, 317 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 2: I've got sixty two hours to do other things, which 318 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 2: is more time than I'm working. And so even if 319 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 2: I'm not happy about how many hours I'm working, if 320 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 2: I can keep my eye on the sixty two, then 321 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 2: life can feel a little bit more full of possibility. 322 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 3: Well, interestingly, I have found that I like to track 323 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,119 Speaker 3: how many times I get woken up on call because 324 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 3: having that long term data helps me approach an incoming 325 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 3: call week with less dread. If I know that actually, 326 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 3: on average, maybe I sleep four nights and get woken 327 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 3: up for three nights. I mean, it's still not fun, 328 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 3: but actually having numbers to be like, well, this is 329 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 3: actually the statistical average can be weirdly calming. 330 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 2: Oh I love that, yeah, because yes it is the 331 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 2: dread Like you, nobody likes to be woken up in 332 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 2: the middle of the night with a medical emergency like 333 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 2: that's just zero fun, even though if it's your job, obviously, 334 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 2: but it also knowing that it will be a limited 335 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 2: number of times most likely keeps you from telling yourself 336 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 2: the story of like, oh gosh, I'm going into this 337 00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 2: call week and I won't sleep at all. 338 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 3: Yes, and then of course they will be like that 339 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 3: random week when you don't sleep. But then if you again, 340 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 3: if you're keeping an average, that probably means that there's 341 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 3: going to be a random week when you sleep every night. 342 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 4: So there you go. 343 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, we could celebrate that one when it happens. So yeah. Yeah. 344 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 2: Now a corollary to that, obviously, if people work less 345 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 2: than they tend to think, is that many people, especially 346 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 2: with small children, do see their families more than they 347 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 2: think they do, because if you have small kids, someone 348 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 2: needs to be with them most of the time and 349 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 2: so that someone is often you, and that time tends 350 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 2: to add up, so you definitely, like busy women in particular, 351 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 2: might fret like, oh, I never see my kids. 352 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: Work's been really busy. I never see my kids. 353 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 2: And then you look at your time log and say, well, okay, 354 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 2: I miss bedtime three nights this week, but there are 355 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 2: seven nights in a week. Like we don't even just 356 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 2: have to look Monday through Thursday and be like I'm. 357 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: Missing all the time. It's like, well, there's seven nights. 358 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 2: If you are gone three and we're home four, you 359 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 2: are actually doing more than half of it, even during 360 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 2: this incredibly busy week, and maybe other weeks won't be 361 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 2: quite as bad. 362 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 3: And this is part of why you are supposed to 363 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 3: track your weekends. And I feel like so many people 364 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 3: think time tracking and they think, I guess maybe because 365 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:19,399 Speaker 3: there used to being corporate lawyers and they're used to 366 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 3: tracking like. 367 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 4: The work days. 368 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 3: But you advocate and are very specific about like not 369 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 3: skipping the hours of Friday night to Monday morning, well. 370 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 2: Because it's a lot of time, and we tell ourselves 371 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 2: this story that Monday to Thursday, or maybe Monday to 372 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 2: Friday at five pm is all the time there is, 373 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 2: and so especially when people are looking at their work 374 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 2: life balance, they are only looking at their work life 375 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 2: balance from like Monday at seven am to Friday at 376 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 2: five pm. But that is not all of your time. 377 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,120 Speaker 2: There are one hundred and sixty eight hours in a week, 378 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 2: and so if you think about the time from let's 379 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:57,119 Speaker 2: say five pm Friday to seven am Monday morning, I 380 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:58,919 Speaker 2: think that is if I'm doing my math right, I 381 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 2: think that's sixty two hours, which is a lot of time, right, 382 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 2: Like that is even if you're sleeping for twenty four 383 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 2: of that hours, that gives us to thirty eight hours 384 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 2: where you're not sleeping. 385 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: So what are you doing with that time? 386 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 2: Hopefully some fun things go play, spending quality time with 387 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 2: your family, but there might be time for exercise or 388 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 2: hobbies or anything else you want to do, but you 389 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 2: won't see that if you're only looking at life Monday 390 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 2: through Friday. 391 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 3: Yes, and speaking about a semi related topic, a lot 392 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 3: of people will tell themselves that they are incredibly sleep deprived, 393 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 3: and I think that partly could be from mostly looking 394 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:36,719 Speaker 3: at weekday data, because there are some of us who 395 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,199 Speaker 3: do like to maybe sleep a little bit more on 396 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 3: the weekends when we have more flexible schedules. But talk 397 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 3: about that from a numbers and data perspective, because you 398 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 3: definitely looked at that. 399 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there's the popular story here like people 400 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,160 Speaker 2: are increasingly sleep deprived, and I don't think that's I mean, 401 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 2: if you look at bigger studies like the American Time 402 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 2: You survey, that is definitely not borne out by the evidence, 403 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 2: certainly from the years I was looking at it more intensely, 404 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 2: like from two thousand and three to like twenty twenty, 405 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 2: when they then had some breaks with the data with COVID, 406 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 2: but the amount of sleep that people were getting had 407 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 2: risen by a statistically significant amount. And some of that, 408 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,479 Speaker 2: again is dealing with an aging population. It is dealing 409 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 2: with health issues that sometimes have people sleeping more. But 410 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 2: it suggests that as a population, people are not increasingly 411 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 2: sleep different. But I've even found that people who are 412 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 2: very busy, who have a lot going on, who are working, 413 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 2: who are raising kids, tend to get a reasonable amount 414 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 2: of sleep when you average it over a longer period 415 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 2: of time, which is one reason I have people track 416 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,640 Speaker 2: for a week, because when we think of our typical nights, 417 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,640 Speaker 2: we're thinking about Tuesday night, and Tuesday night is probably 418 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:51,719 Speaker 2: not a great night, but so it might be up 419 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 2: late for whatever reason, trying to get a little bit 420 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 2: more work done, and then you have to get up 421 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 2: really early on Wednesday for the whole run of show 422 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 2: on Wednesday. But maybe later in the week you're starting 423 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,439 Speaker 2: to catch up on sleep, like you're crashing on the 424 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 2: couch at night, or that Friday morning workout doesn't happen, 425 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 2: or you're sleeping later because you're working from home. And 426 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 2: then weekends people tend to try to catch up on sleep, 427 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 2: and so you're getting the same amount of sleep overall 428 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,120 Speaker 2: that whatever it is that your body is aiming for, 429 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 2: but you feel really tired during the week and see 430 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 2: those nights as being very short even though they're much 431 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 2: longer than later in the week. So you know my advice, 432 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 2: you're always trying to get people to sleep the amount 433 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 2: you need every night. Give yourself a bedtime, get into bed, 434 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 2: because you're not saving time by saving up late. You're 435 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,199 Speaker 2: just losing part of your weekend when you're sleeping when 436 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 2: you could have been awake for your weekend, which might 437 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 2: have been more fun. 438 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:43,919 Speaker 3: Well, that's an interesting way to see it, and of 439 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 3: course we know that, Like there are phases of life 440 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 3: when your sleep is very interrupted and may not be 441 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 3: the quality that you want. I wonder if it's like 442 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 3: an also a quality over quantity issue when you are 443 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 3: in that baby phase and you're up every two three 444 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 3: hours and you just don't get the right ratios of 445 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 3: different types of sleep. But I think that would require 446 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 3: a study more in depth and time data. 447 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean, but the crazy thing is, like 448 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 2: I added up my sleep totals from twenty fifteen I 449 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,679 Speaker 2: had a baby, twenty twenty, I had a baby, and 450 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 2: I was still getting overall seven point three to seven point. 451 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: Four hours a day when you averaged it over the 452 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: whole year. 453 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 3: But that's what I'm saying. I bet you were more tired. 454 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 3: I think it was atuality. It wasn't as good because 455 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 3: it was broken up. 456 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 2: Yes, And I also may have substituted sleep for other 457 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 2: activities during like the evenings or afternoons or things like 458 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 2: that when I could nap versus now I wouldn't need 459 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 2: to do that, so I can have that as leisure, 460 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:40,439 Speaker 2: whereas the time I was awake was tending to a 461 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,160 Speaker 2: baby than that, right, So it's a substitution of activities 462 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 2: rather than a change in sleep. 463 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 1: Overall, that makes sense. 464 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 3: And finally, a time myth that we hear a lot, 465 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:54,919 Speaker 3: or I'm guessing you hear a lot. I'm just going 466 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:56,679 Speaker 3: to get a lot of emails actually that are like, 467 00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 3: all this sounds great, but I don't have any free time. 468 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. I always find this funny. I have no free 469 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 2: time whatsoever. I was like on Instagram the other day 470 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 2: and somebody was posting about how they have no free 471 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 2: time whatsoever. 472 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, come on, we're on Instagram. 473 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 2: Like, if you're posting on Instagram that you have no 474 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 2: free time whatsoever, like. 475 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:18,360 Speaker 1: This is the yeah, yeah, well they're an influencer. That's 476 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,360 Speaker 1: that's true. That could be their job. I don't think 477 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: it was, but I mean I get it. I get it. 478 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:26,360 Speaker 1: When we say I have. 479 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 2: No free time whatsoever, what we mean is I don't 480 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,400 Speaker 2: have as much free time as I want, right, And 481 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 2: that is absolutely true. But that's a different story, right, 482 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 2: we're talking about time stories. We tell ourselves I have 483 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 2: no free time whatsoever. It's just kind of defeat us, 484 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 2: like what do you do with that? And so then 485 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,360 Speaker 2: when you do have free time, because everyone has some 486 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 2: discretionary time, even if it's just tiny bits of them. 487 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 2: I've seen people in some very difficult circumstances and they 488 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 2: don't have a lot, but they still get a little 489 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,360 Speaker 2: bit ten minutes, fifteen minutes here and there. And if 490 00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 2: you have a story that I have no free time whatsoever, 491 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 2: then you won't think about what to do with. 492 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: Those fifteen minute chunks, because why would you? 493 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 2: They don't exist, So like why am I even bothering 494 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 2: myself to ask that question? 495 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 1: And so then you spend it on. 496 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 2: Whatever is right in front of you, which is electronic hobbies, 497 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 2: doom scrolling, social media. Hence the person on instat complaining 498 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 2: about the person on instant complaining about having no free 499 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,199 Speaker 2: time whatsoever. Whereas if your story is I don't have 500 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 2: as much free time as I want, that can suggest 501 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 2: some good questions like how could I scale. 502 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: This up over time? 503 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 2: Like is there anything I can do to change my 504 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,400 Speaker 2: schedule to get a little bit more free time? 505 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 3: Like? 506 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,120 Speaker 2: Can I quit some things? Could I minimize some things? 507 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 2: Could I get some help with things? Those are all 508 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 2: options that are available for many of us. Or maybe 509 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 2: it's that no, nothing can change, But how can I 510 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,199 Speaker 2: make sure that the limited time I do have is 511 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 2: spent on high quality things, so I really feel rejuvenated 512 00:23:55,400 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 2: as opposed to spending it mindlessly. And so even if 513 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 2: you only do have fifteen minutes here and there, you 514 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 2: might think, well, what would I love to do. I'd 515 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 2: love to call a friend for fifteen minutes, or I'd 516 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 2: love to read for fifteen minutes, or I'd love to 517 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 2: go for a walk for fifteen minutes. And to do 518 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 2: those things will then make that time feel more like 519 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 2: it actually happened. And knowing that some free time happened 520 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,439 Speaker 2: could change your entire story. Like I'm a kind of 521 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,400 Speaker 2: person who has time to call a friend for fifteen minutes. 522 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 2: It has time to go for a walk for fifteen minutes, 523 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 2: even with everything else I have going on, And. 524 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: I just think that's a more empowering story. 525 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 3: Even with housework, which we're going to talk about in 526 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 3: a second after the break. So finally, I think one 527 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 3: time with you hear a lot, is that any time 528 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 3: that I do have, I am spending doing the dishes 529 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,440 Speaker 3: and the laundry in this particular phase of life. Have 530 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 3: you tracked your time doing these household tours I have. 531 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,360 Speaker 2: I don't necessarily add up stuff as much anymore as 532 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 2: I did, like in the first few years, and I 533 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,360 Speaker 2: know it was non zero, Like I try to get 534 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,160 Speaker 2: a lot of this off my plate if I can, 535 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 2: but you can't get all of it off. But that said, 536 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 2: it doesn't take as much time. It's like email checks 537 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 2: on the weekend for work. Nobody wants to do it, 538 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 2: which is why it feels like it takes a lot 539 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 2: longer than it does. So if you spend five minutes 540 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 2: emptying the dishwasher and then like an hour later you 541 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 2: spend ten minutes doing the dishes on the weekend, and 542 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 2: an hour after that spend fifteen minutes collecting laundry, starting 543 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,120 Speaker 2: a load, and then distributing socks back to someone's room, 544 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 2: you haven't actually spent that much time on housework, but 545 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 2: it might have felt like you were doing it all day, 546 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 2: And that is, of course the story people tell themselves that, like, oh, 547 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,919 Speaker 2: I was spending all my time doing housework. But tracking 548 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 2: time can help you see, well, it's some I may 549 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 2: not enjoy it, but it's not a huge amount. 550 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: So therefore, what do I want to do about it. 551 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 2: I can either have the mindset of like, oh, this 552 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 2: is contained and I'm going to make sure I'm enjoying 553 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 2: the rest of my time. Or what could I do 554 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 2: to do less? Could I get somebody else to empty 555 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 2: the dishwasher? Could I have the kids who are over 556 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 2: ten years old do their own laundry. There's all sorts 557 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 2: of options that might be available. 558 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 3: Yes, I will say I'm always like very impressed at 559 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 3: how quick it is to unload the dishwasher. That's like 560 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 3: a I can do it really fast, like five six minutes. 561 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 3: And I'm impressed with how slow it is to fold laundry, 562 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,400 Speaker 3: although I don't use any of those time saving things 563 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,159 Speaker 3: you talk about. However, lately, I do outsource a lot 564 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 3: of the laundry, so I don't do it on a 565 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 3: day to day basis, but I often do it on 566 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 3: the weekends, and I've figured out that I can just 567 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 3: lean into that and like watch a TV show while 568 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 3: I'm folding nice, warm laundry and just like think of 569 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 3: it as somewhat relaxed time. 570 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, now it's it could be relaxing. I tend 571 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 2: to do mine on Sundays and it's really fast. I 572 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 2: mean I just throw in a load, then move it over, 573 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 2: I pull out like the jeens and a few other 574 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 2: things that I don't want to have dry and hang 575 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 2: them up and then putting away the stuff in my 576 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,199 Speaker 2: drawers is just very quick. But I guess I'm not. 577 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 2: I don't know, Sarah, I'm not folding my underwear. Are 578 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 2: you folding your underwear? No? 579 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 4: I don't fold my underwear. I don't know. I think 580 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 4: part of our problems that we do combine everyone. 581 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,199 Speaker 3: So like it's like the oh this is is this 582 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 3: Genevieve's and like at this point some of the cls, 583 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 3: like it's very hard to tell he has Cameron's pants 584 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 3: or Anibal's pants. 585 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:25,439 Speaker 4: They even have the same school uniform. 586 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: Like, I don't even know IFBABLY. 587 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 3: Spent half my time figuring out who's his who's which 588 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 3: would be a solvable problem. But again, I only do 589 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:32,120 Speaker 3: it once a week and I'm watching a fun show. 590 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 3: So maybe I just don't care to. 591 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:34,120 Speaker 4: Solve my problem. 592 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, and separating out individuals laundry or either doing like 593 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 2: people who are entirely different sizes and genders. So it 594 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 2: could be like Josh and Genevieve together right, like, because 595 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 2: then there's no question who's this who's. 596 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 3: No, that's true, No, it's all mixed. In our current system, 597 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 3: it's all mixed. 598 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 2: Okay, Well that's one way to make continue follow us 599 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:54,639 Speaker 2: for more laundry hacks. 600 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 3: Yeah. 601 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 2: So those are some of the time stories I see 602 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,399 Speaker 2: most often. Sarah, do you have any particular that you 603 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 2: have found yourself telling yourself? 604 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 4: Well, there's two things I want to say. 605 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 3: Number one is I think that all this data kind 606 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,880 Speaker 3: of go flies in the face of that wonderful myth 607 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:15,920 Speaker 3: that we love, which is like you can only do 608 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 3: three things in your life or four things or whatever 609 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 3: it is, like, which I think we actually answered a 610 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 3: question about this on a recent episode. But like, yeah, 611 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,159 Speaker 3: when you track your time, you probably are gonna be 612 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 3: able to see that you can do things in multiple categories, 613 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 3: whether it's friends, your family, your job, your kids, yourself. 614 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 3: Like maybe it's not tons of time in each category, 615 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 3: but there are a lot of hours in a week, 616 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 3: and but you don't have to zeros in some of 617 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 3: them in order to do a meaningful job or take 618 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 3: care of your children. So that's number one, And then 619 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 3: number two, I just like data, Like in general, I 620 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 3: like data when it comes to like does this medical 621 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 3: treatment work? Well, someone might have studied that, like let's 622 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 3: actually let's actually see rather than looking at Reddit and 623 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 3: seeing what like the random person who had a terrible 624 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 3: side effect has to say, or like, oh, I can't 625 00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 3: figure out what's going on with my metabolism, won't track 626 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 3: your track what you're actually eating, like look at your macros, 627 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 3: like maybe you'll see things you don't want to see, 628 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 3: but at least have the hard data in front of you. 629 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 3: Or even like money, okay, like you wrote all the 630 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 3: money in the world, but many people will talk about 631 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 3: being frustrated about when they can retire, like do you 632 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 3: know all the numbers? I'm super into remat cities show 633 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 3: Money for couples recently, and it's mind boggling how many 634 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 3: people go on his show and are like, I feel 635 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 3: so anxious about whatever, and he's like, well, have you 636 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 3: actually done any projections or do you know how much 637 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 3: money you have? 638 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 4: And they're like no, And it's like data guys. 639 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 3: Like, I mean that sounds harsh, and I don't mean 640 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 3: it in a harsh way, but I do think somethimes 641 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 3: we're scared to look or we don't want to know, 642 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 3: But sometimes the truth is that numbers are helpful. 643 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's I mean, I will admit I don't 644 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 2: like tracking food and I don't like tracking spending, but 645 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 2: it's also I mean, with time, I think that it 646 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 2: really is about the truth setting you free. Like I 647 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 2: want people to know that looking at the data is 648 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 2: probably going to be a helpful experience and not like 649 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 2: a gotcha experience, like want to be like, oh, yeah, look, 650 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 2: you thought you were drowning and you've got two hours 651 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 2: of Netflix on there, like clearly or not, but no, 652 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 2: like you can still feel like you're drowning, and we 653 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 2: should look at why that is, Like why is it? 654 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 2: Is it something specific? 655 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: Is it? 656 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 2: Because every Monday night you get stuck working late and 657 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 2: you have this stuff you're trying to do Monday night 658 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 2: and you can't get to it, and so you. 659 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: Feel like you're behind. 660 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 2: Well that's a problem that you can maybe solve, Like 661 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 2: maybe you get everything out of Monday night because you 662 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 2: know you can't do it right if this keeps happening, 663 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 2: and maybe it's that you need more help on Monday night, 664 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 2: or you move those things to Tuesday night, or you 665 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 2: do something else. But rather than feel like life is 666 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 2: out of control, we might be able to come up 667 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 2: with solutions by looking at it where the time is 668 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 2: actually going. 669 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 4: Yes, I love it. 670 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 3: Well, everyone's reading time for more on this particular topic, 671 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 3: and don't worry, you'll be hearing more about that book 672 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 3: to come in future episodes. But there are a lot 673 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 3: of the lessons from the time tracking itself, and I 674 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 3: guess I will put a plug for if you haven't 675 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 3: tracked your time. Laura, do you have any upcoming challenges 676 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 3: where you do it with people or not until the fall? 677 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 2: Not immediately, but yeah, every January I do check my 678 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 2: time And if you want to get any of my timelogs, 679 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 2: just go to my website Laura vandercam dot com and 680 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 2: then slash manage hyphen your hyphen time and that's where 681 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 2: all the time trackers are and you can get whatever 682 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 2: version you want. Excel, pdf, Google Sheets, fifteen minute, thirty minute. 683 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 2: I use thirty minute Excel and that works fine for me. 684 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 2: Just check in three times a day, write down what 685 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 2: I've done since the last time I checked in, pretty easy. 686 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be elaborate, but I think it 687 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 2: will be helpful, so give it a shot. 688 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: Well, this week's. 689 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 2: Question comes from a listener says, we love our young 690 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 2: toddler's daycare, but the sick days are really disruptive. Travel 691 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 2: is ramping up at work for both of us, and 692 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 2: so we're thinking some night and overnight coverage might be necessary. 693 00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: I've heard you talk about. 694 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 2: Switching to nanny care, which sounds reasonable, but we have 695 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 2: made a lot of friends with the other parents and 696 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 2: kids at daycare, and I think it would be hard 697 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 2: to walk away. 698 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 1: So what do you think about the situation? 699 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 3: Sarah, Yeah, I will say, I mean, it doesn't have 700 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 3: to be one or the other. We have definitely done 701 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 3: preschool slash nanny at the same time. And even though 702 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 3: you're attached to your current daycare friends, I would probably 703 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 3: hazard a guess that were you to switch centers, you 704 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 3: would quickly make new friends. 705 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 4: And so if the current. 706 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 3: Daycare that you're at doesn't support kind of like a 707 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 3: drop in or like few mornings versus like if it's 708 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 3: an all or nothing situation, I can understand why you 709 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 3: probably wouldn't want to pay for a full time daycare 710 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 3: plus full time nanny coverage. But kind of a happy 711 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 3: medium where you're probably still going to meet families and 712 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 3: have a network, would be doing a kind of preschool 713 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 3: plus nanny combination. That way, you have the backup childcare, 714 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 3: but then you also have that socialization and then. 715 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 4: The built in parent network of people you're going to meet. 716 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say, actually, don't have to 717 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 2: switch at all. So when we had kid number two, 718 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,239 Speaker 2: we did hire nanny, but we kept Jasper in his 719 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 2: daycare and for slightly reduced hours. But I don't think 720 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 2: we got a discount on it. But we just viewed 721 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 2: it as sort of like early preschool, because a lot 722 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 2: of daycare is preschool for the core hours and then 723 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 2: just wrap around care around outside that. So we kept 724 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 2: him inute and so we didn't have to have that 725 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 2: switch of new friends, new parents all that. Yes, obviously 726 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 2: there is a cost associated with it, but if you're 727 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 2: talking about both of you being in jobs that are 728 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 2: really ramping up, maybe this is something that you want 729 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 2: to put some more money into. And if you like 730 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 2: the network and like your daycare, then hire somebody in 731 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 2: addition to that. And maybe the person that you hire 732 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 2: is open to sort of having a general idea that 733 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 2: they're working like thirty thirty five hours a week, but 734 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 2: they have enough flexibility that they could ramp it up 735 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 2: if they needed to be out of daycare for a 736 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 2: couple of days, or if you had the need for 737 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,719 Speaker 2: night or overnight coverage, and so yes, some weeks you 738 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,360 Speaker 2: would wind up using them fewer hours because you have that, 739 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 2: but the availability might be worth having. 740 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:17,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, if that's doable. 741 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 3: That sounds like a very non stressful kind of situation 742 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 3: because you almost always have a backup one way or 743 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 3: the other. 744 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:23,919 Speaker 1: Yeah. 745 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, So I mean adding the thirty thirty five hours 746 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,400 Speaker 2: of nanny plus having your daycare still there means you're 747 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 2: going to miswork a lot less. I guess is how 748 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 2: I'm going and have the coverage if one of you 749 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,240 Speaker 2: needs to travel or both of you need to travel, 750 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 2: or if both of you have. 751 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 1: Stuff in the evening on occasionally. 752 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 2: So that might be a way to get the best 753 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 2: of both worlds there, all right, so Sarah Love of 754 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 2: the Week. 755 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, So backstory. 756 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 3: I used to have like fancy sunglasses, Like I had 757 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 3: a pair of Chanel sunglasses I was really into. But 758 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 3: I have really really changed my ways significantly because I 759 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 3: feel like the best sunglasses are the ones you actually 760 00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 3: have with you and can find and I don't want 761 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 3: the stress of like possibly losing some really nice sunglasses. 762 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 3: So I am in my era of having like ten 763 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,800 Speaker 3: pairs of very inexpensive sunglasses but everywhere in every bag, 764 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 3: in every car, so that I am never without them. 765 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 1: I love it. 766 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 4: That's my hot tip and love of the week. What 767 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 4: about you? 768 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,280 Speaker 2: I would say that airports that post their parking availability 769 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 2: and like TSA weight times and custom weight times online. 770 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 2: I mean everything is digital these days, like Disney can 771 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 2: do it right. So Disney can tell you what the 772 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,840 Speaker 2: weight time is for Space Mountain, any place that you 773 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 2: want to look at the app like, you can find 774 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 2: that out anytime, and most of the airports do have 775 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,239 Speaker 2: it somewhere, although when we're recording this, things are all 776 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 2: in flux and so some are not updating it anymore, 777 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 2: which is too bad because this is sort of when 778 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:44,320 Speaker 2: people are nerve. 779 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,320 Speaker 1: Wrecked about how long the weight times are. 780 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 2: But it's the kind of thing that more information is 781 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 2: always good because you really don't want to have people 782 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 2: show up at the parking lot there's no parking or people. 783 00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 2: It's nice to know that the weight time was a 784 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 2: twenty minutes and so you could build that in rationally 785 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 2: as opposed to worrying it might be three hours when 786 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 2: it probably isn't, so that's the kind of thing that 787 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 2: it's helpful. 788 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:07,799 Speaker 1: More information is always good. 789 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 4: Love it well. 790 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:10,840 Speaker 1: This has been best of both worlds. 791 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 2: We've been talking about time stories, people tell We will 792 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 2: be back next week with. 793 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 1: More on making work and life fit together. 794 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the 795 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 3: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, 796 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 3: and you can. 797 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:31,279 Speaker 2: Find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has 798 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 2: been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us 799 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 2: next time for more on making work and life work together.