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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth, where we get

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Speaker 1: to the heart of the issues that matter to you. Today,

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Speaker 1: we're diving into a heavy but important conversation about grief,

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Speaker 1: about face, about this spiritual battle that we're facing right

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Speaker 1: now in the country and also just the world. In

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Speaker 1: the wake of the tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk, a

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Speaker 1: devout Christian, a guy who lived his life for Christ,

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Speaker 1: for his.

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Speaker 2: Family, for his country.

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Speaker 1: We're left asking why does God allow such evil to happen?

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Speaker 2: Why does God allow such pain?

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Speaker 1: And on how do we process the celebration of his

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Speaker 1: loss in our society when we see all these people

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Speaker 1: in just such an evil way of celebrating and gleefully

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Speaker 1: celebrating the loss of human life, the assassination of a

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Speaker 1: great man. You know, the only heartening thing that we've

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Speaker 1: seen from all this is it it seems to have

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Speaker 1: sparked something in people around the world, you know, perhaps

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Speaker 1: the spiritual revival.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, but it seems like we're saying.

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Speaker 1: More and more people, millions of people around the world

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Speaker 1: more boldly stand in their faith and their beliefs.

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Speaker 2: So we're gonna have someone come on the show today.

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Speaker 1: Who is very bold in his beliefs, who's very bold

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Speaker 1: for the.

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Speaker 2: Truth and his faith.

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Speaker 1: You might have heard of him, but it's Pastor Gary

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Speaker 1: Hamrick of Cornerstone Chapel in Leesburg, Virginia. It's a thriving

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Speaker 1: church just right outside of the Washington, DC area. They

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Speaker 1: have thousands attend Cornerstone Chapel. He's a leader of the truth.

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Speaker 1: He's not afraid to back down from a fight. He's

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Speaker 1: not afraid to get involved in politics. He's unafraid, much

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Speaker 1: like Charlie was. So we're going to lean on him

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Speaker 1: today to walk us through this grief, what it means,

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Speaker 1: the spiritual battle that we all know that we're facing

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Speaker 1: right now and where we might be headed as a country.

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Speaker 1: So stay tuned for Pastor Gary Hamrick of Cornerstone Chapel. Well, Pastor,

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Speaker 1: I invenged you previously, but my parents used to attend

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Speaker 1: your church when they lived in Virginia and they just

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Speaker 1: loved going to Cornerstone. They loved hearing what you had

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Speaker 1: to say, and they loved how bold and.

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Speaker 2: Truthful you are.

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Speaker 1: So we appreciate you making the time for the show today, sir.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Lisa. It's good to be with you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so many of us have just been

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Speaker 1: experiencing so much grief since Charlie Kirk's assassination. It's just

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Speaker 1: our hearts are hurting, we feel broken. I guess what

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Speaker 1: can you tell us about grief? And what can you

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Speaker 1: tell us right now in this time of just hurting

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Speaker 1: in vain.

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Speaker 4: You know, I heard somebody once saying, I think this

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Speaker 4: is just so helpful that when God created Adam and

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Speaker 4: even the garden, he didn't really wire humanity with the

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Speaker 4: capacity to grief because we weren't supposed to experience death

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Speaker 4: the result of sin, the fall of man, and then

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Speaker 4: death and sued as a result. But originally, when God

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Speaker 4: created man, we were not really wired to experience the

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Speaker 4: emotion of grief because we weren't wired to experience death.

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Speaker 4: And so I think grief is one of the hardest

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Speaker 4: emotions to work through.

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Speaker 3: I know a lot of.

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Speaker 4: People who obviously turn to different vices and different substances

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Speaker 4: to try to cope with the grief. But you know,

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Speaker 4: for us who obviously believe in Christ, we lean more

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Speaker 4: into him, we press more into the Lord, and we

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Speaker 4: give him our sorrows. The Bible says that God is

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Speaker 4: close to the broken hearted and saves those who are

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Speaker 4: crushed in spirit. And so when I'm grieving, and when

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Speaker 4: you're grieving, when people grieve over the loss of a

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Speaker 4: loved one, in this case losing Charlie Kirk, we just

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Speaker 4: have to press into the Lord because grief is not

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Speaker 4: something we are supposed to really experience.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people look at something like

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Speaker 1: this and they say, here's this god fearing man, a

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Speaker 1: guy who dedicated his life to Christ, to family, his country. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's a good man, and yet he was assassinated, he

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Speaker 1: was murdered. You know, like, why does God allow evil

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Speaker 1: to happen?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the big question.

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Speaker 4: You know. Evil entered the world because initially Satan rebelled

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Speaker 4: against the Lord. God has given even his created beings angels,

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Speaker 4: and he's given mankind free will because he wants us

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Speaker 4: to choose him. He wants a love relationship. He doesn't

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Speaker 4: want it to be a robotic kind of a legal relationship.

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Speaker 4: And so because we have choice, we can choose to

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Speaker 4: love him and follow him, we can choose to disobey

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Speaker 4: him and rebel against him. And so evil in the

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Speaker 4: world began because Satan rebelled against the Lord, and so

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Speaker 4: God is not the author of evil. Evil is the

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Speaker 4: result of the fall of Satan and the fall of man.

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Speaker 4: And now we live in a world where there is

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Speaker 4: this evil. But that's why God sent Christ into the

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Speaker 4: world to rescue us from an evil world. So sometimes

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Speaker 4: it's really hard to make sense of it because we think, Okay,

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Speaker 4: God is sovereign on the one hand, but we have

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Speaker 4: all this evil in the world on the other hand,

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Speaker 4: how can God allow this? Well, God provided a remedy

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Speaker 4: for us because of evil that entered the world as

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Speaker 4: a result of Satan and man's rebellion against him. It's hard,

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Speaker 4: but he is our refuge and he's our ever present

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Speaker 4: help in times of trouble.

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Speaker 1: You know, it seems like, you know, just speaking of

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Speaker 1: that evilness, we're really seeing it in abundance. Yeah, day,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, pastor, I'm I'm sure you've seen

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Speaker 1: people celebrating. Yeah, a young man just thirty one years old,

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Speaker 1: being murdered, being assassinated.

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Speaker 2: It's like, how did we get to this point?

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Speaker 1: I mean, it just seems more evil than you know,

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Speaker 1: any other time I can know, I'm forty, but it

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Speaker 1: just I don't remember a time where people would just

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Speaker 1: so callously and gleefully celebrate the murder of someone.

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Speaker 4: Well top of your age on sixty two and I

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Speaker 4: still haven't seen anything quite like this. But you know, personally,

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Speaker 4: I think it's been there. It's just been under the

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Speaker 4: radar until something like this will spontaneously release what is

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Speaker 4: actually there. The core of humanity is wicked. And you know, again,

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Speaker 4: I'm a pastor, so I see things, and I hope

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Speaker 4: all Christians see things through the lens of the Bible.

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Speaker 3: And when I look at the Bible, and when.

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Speaker 4: I see what the Bible says about the condition of humanity,

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Speaker 4: we are a fallen race of people, all of us.

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Speaker 4: And that's why Christ came into the world to rescue us.

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Speaker 4: And so this evil that is in the world, the

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Speaker 4: wickedness that is in the world, I think has always

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Speaker 4: been there. It's just that it just kind of flies

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Speaker 4: under the radar until something catastrophic like this happens with

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Speaker 4: the assassinage of Charlie Kirk, and then the people who

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Speaker 4: didn't like him now become very vocal in their vitriol

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Speaker 4: and their animosity and their hatred. And it's so disheartening,

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Speaker 4: but to be honest, It's not surprising because this is

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Speaker 4: the condition of a fallen world.

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Speaker 1: You know. It seems to me that, you know, obviously

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Speaker 1: there was a political dynamic to this, in the sense of,

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Speaker 1: you know, Charlie was a political leader, you know, a

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Speaker 1: turning point, was a powerhouse. I mean, he helped elect

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Speaker 1: President Trump, particularly with younger people. But even more so

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Speaker 1: than that, there is a spiritual component to this, and

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Speaker 1: I believe Charlie was murdered for his faith because that

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Speaker 1: was the basis in the foundation of all of his beliefs.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the truth that he spread was because of

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Speaker 1: his faith in Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 2: You know, is that how you see it?

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Speaker 1: I mean, is he a murder for Christianity or how

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Speaker 1: do you see this?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I said on Sunday that the reason why Charlie Kirk

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Speaker 4: was considered quote controversial, is simply because his biblical views

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Speaker 4: shaped his political views that challenged the cultural views. And

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Speaker 4: so even though people saw him as a political figure,

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Speaker 4: really his politics were shaped because of his biblical views,

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Speaker 4: because of his faith in Christ and his belief in

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Speaker 4: the Bible, and so he was more so of late,

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Speaker 4: he became more of an apologist really for the Christian faith.

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Speaker 4: He became a great debater to defend the cause of Christ,

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Speaker 4: to defend scriptural principles, to defend the Bible, and his

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Speaker 4: faith became more obvious in latter years than when he

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Speaker 4: first started Turning Point USA. In fact, later he started

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Speaker 4: even this leg this branch of Turning Point faith because

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Speaker 4: his faith became so important to him. Whether he died

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Speaker 4: as a Christian martyr, I've had a lot of discussions

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Speaker 4: with some of my friends about this, and I think

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Speaker 4: that that is up for debate only because in the

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Speaker 4: traditional sense of a martyr, it's usually someone who is

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Speaker 4: doing something specifically in the cause of Christ. You know,

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Speaker 4: when the Taliban, there's a missionary, the story of Jim Elliott,

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Speaker 4: you know Stephen in the Bible, those are considered more

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Speaker 4: of the traditional martyrs. So whether Charlie Kirk died is

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Speaker 4: a Christian martyr, I guess that's up for discussion. But

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Speaker 4: his faith certainly was a testimony of his belief in

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Speaker 4: Jesus Christ, and martyr comes from the Greek word martyrs,

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Speaker 4: which just means witness, and he certainly was that he

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Speaker 4: was a witness for Christ and all that he said,

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Speaker 4: and did you know it.

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Speaker 1: Feels like, you know, obviously there is a political battle

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Speaker 1: in front of us, but the spiritual one seems as

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Speaker 1: you persede that.

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Speaker 2: Kind of talk about this, you know, spiritual.

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Speaker 1: Battle that we're facing right now, it really does feel

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Speaker 1: like it's just, you know, less than Republican versus Democrat.

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Speaker 2: It's like just good versus evil.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, in the Bible of Isaiah five, Isaiah speaks

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Speaker 4: about how woe to those who call evil good and

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Speaker 4: good evil who substitutes for darkness and darkness for light.

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Speaker 4: We are living in that time right now. We're living

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Speaker 4: in an upside down world where just ten fifteen years ago,

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Speaker 4: things that used to be called wrong are now called

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Speaker 4: right and even celebrated, and things that used to be

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Speaker 4: called right are now called wrong by many in the culture.

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Speaker 4: And this is a spiritual battle. What we're seeing happening

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Speaker 4: right now with the violence, the hatred, the animosity, all

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Speaker 4: of this is just an indication of a spiritual battle

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Speaker 4: that is going on really for the soul of America.

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Speaker 4: And it could be said around the world, but you know,

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Speaker 4: just looking at it close to home, this is a

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Speaker 4: spiritual battle. And you're right, it's not it used to

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Speaker 4: be I'm a old enough to remember when Republicans and

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Speaker 4: Democrats were more closely aligned. I mean, for goodness sakes,

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Speaker 4: Bill Clinton signed the Defensive Marriage Act, which got struck

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Speaker 4: down by the Supreme Court. But it just goes to

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Speaker 4: show you that here's a Democrat who was defending marriage,

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Speaker 4: the traditional marriage, like the Bible spells it out.

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Speaker 3: And now you don't even have that. You don't even

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Speaker 3: have many.

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Speaker 4: Democrats who would support domat today. It is they've gone

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Speaker 4: to a place where there's this division over the things

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Speaker 4: that used to be considered right and wrong are no

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Speaker 4: longer considered in the same light of right and wrong.

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Speaker 4: And that indicates to me this is really a spiritual battle.

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Speaker 4: Its deception of the highest level satan and demonic principalities

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Speaker 4: that we cannot see. And I don't want to blame

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Speaker 4: them for everything, but it's just pretty clear that when

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Speaker 4: you look at violence and you look at how people

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Speaker 4: are redefining things, redefining marriage, redefining biological sex, as if

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Speaker 4: you could do that, redefining all these different things, it's

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Speaker 4: just as an indication that we've lost our minds. And

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Speaker 4: the reason is because there's a spiritual battle behind it

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Speaker 4: that is causing a delusion and a deception.

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Speaker 1: I've got to take a quick commercial break more with

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Speaker 1: Pastor Gary Hamrick on the other side. Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: I've always looked at the transgender issue as if a

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Speaker 1: part of society can get the rest to accept something

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Speaker 1: that's so demonstrably false and such a lie that then

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Speaker 1: they can convince you and get you to believe anything.

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Speaker 1: And you know, so for me, it's always just been

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Speaker 1: a battle of truth, you know, And you know, it's

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Speaker 1: sort of like a control exercise, right, Like, if we

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Speaker 1: can get these people to accept something that is so

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Speaker 1: such a lie, then like we're an owned people, right,

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Speaker 1: the truth no longer matters and we're living in this

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Speaker 1: gray area where you know there is no wrong versus.

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Speaker 4: Right, Lisa, I had a guy who works for pharmaceutical

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Speaker 4: company send me an email. He and his wife and

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Speaker 4: four daughters attend our church and he sent me an

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Speaker 4: email an email once that just basically said thank you

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Speaker 4: for telling the truth so that I can know I'm

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Speaker 4: not going crazy. There are a lot of people who

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Speaker 4: just we're believing things. Are we being told things I

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Speaker 4: should say that are true when in fact they're completely false.

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Speaker 4: But if it's repeated enough. You know, if that lies

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Speaker 4: repeated enough, then it is believed by a majority of

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Speaker 4: people as if it is true. And then you have

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Speaker 4: this minority of people now who are saying, am I crazy?

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Speaker 4: I mean, this is this really what it appears to be?

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Speaker 4: And so that's just one story of many emails I

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Speaker 4: get from people saying thank you for helping us to

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Speaker 4: be centered, to know what is right and from what

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Speaker 4: is false, what is true, from what is false, because

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Speaker 4: otherwise we think we're going crazy.

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Speaker 1: Then I guess why are so few willing to take

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Speaker 1: a stand, Because I think that is one thing that

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Speaker 1: made Charlie Kirk such a giant, Yeah, was the fact

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Speaker 1: that he was unafraid. He was you know, at a

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Speaker 1: time when like the culture was telling young people to

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Speaker 1: go in one direction, like he stood so bravely for

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Speaker 1: his beliefs and for truth and for light. So it's like,

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Speaker 1: why then do people cower when you know, even just

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Speaker 1: this past election, we found out that there are more

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Speaker 1: Americans who share common sense principles and beliefs over seventy

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Speaker 1: seven million in than not, yet so few people speak up.

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Speaker 2: So why I.

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Speaker 4: Think we live in a such a me oriented culture.

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Speaker 4: You know, social media has driven that in large part.

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Speaker 4: You know, how many likes did I get, how many

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Speaker 4: thumbs up did I get? And so now people are

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Speaker 4: more concerned about their personal popularity, how well they are liked,

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Speaker 4: than they are about the truth, because they know that

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Speaker 4: if they were to take a stand on certain things,

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Speaker 4: people may not like them. And you know, I said

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Speaker 4: to our congregation on Sunday, we have to get over

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Speaker 4: this whole idea of being liked, because even Jesus said

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Speaker 4: in John fifteen, if they hate you, remember they hated

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Speaker 4: me first. Whenever you draw a line, even if you

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Speaker 4: wrap it in grace and wrap the truth in love,

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Speaker 4: some people will still be offended by the truth just

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Speaker 4: because truth confronts us. You know, every time I read

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Speaker 4: the Bible, it confronts me and there and my response

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Speaker 4: has to either be Okay, I'm going to submit to

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Speaker 4: this and hump myself, or I'm going to be offended

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Speaker 4: by it.

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Speaker 3: So when a.

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Speaker 4: Culture does not accept God as the supreme authority in

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Speaker 4: their lives, then they get offended by any truth as

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Speaker 4: God defines it. And a lot of people are reluctant

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Speaker 4: to be truthful and honest and courageous and bold because

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Speaker 4: they don't want to quote offend people. And the root

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Speaker 4: of that is they just don't want to be disliked.

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Speaker 4: And Charlie Kirk was a different person altogether in that

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Speaker 4: regard because he wanted to tell the truth and he

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Speaker 4: didn't really care if people disliked him, and he was

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Speaker 4: willing literally to die for it because there was a

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Speaker 4: shooter who disliked him so much that he took his life.

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Speaker 1: No, I think his murder has been a gut check

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Speaker 1: for so many people around the world. You know, if

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Speaker 1: like this thirty one year old has so much purpose

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Speaker 1: in his life and already knows why he was put

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Speaker 1: on this earth, and you know his mission in life

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Speaker 1: and was so bold and so brave, it's like, what

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Speaker 1: are the rest of us doing? Yeah, why do you

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Speaker 1: think we're kind of all feeling that gut check right now?

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Speaker 4: Because I think many of us not only are grieving

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Speaker 4: over the assassination of Charlie Kirk, but I think we

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Speaker 4: look at his life and it makes us feel ashamed.

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Speaker 4: And when I say that, I mean when we look

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Speaker 4: at how bold and courageous he was, most of us

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Speaker 4: couldn't do that. Most of us would not go into

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Speaker 4: college campuses and try to debate and engage people in conversation.

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Speaker 4: He just liked the exchange of ideas and he liked

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Speaker 4: the freedom of free speech. But I think most people

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Speaker 4: would be too intimidated to do such a thing. And

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Speaker 4: so then when we see man he gave his life

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Speaker 4: for what he believed, what am I doing? Am I

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Speaker 4: willing to give my life in defense of what I believe?

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Speaker 4: And so in that way, in a positive way, his

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Speaker 4: assassination has kind of shamed us into realizing the gut

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Speaker 4: check is do I have the courage to do what

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Speaker 4: Charlie Kirk did? Am I willing to love people and

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Speaker 4: love truth more than my own life? And that is challenging.

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Speaker 4: But I think that's in part why many of us

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Speaker 4: just feel this sense of like grief mixed with such

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Speaker 4: awe and respect of what Charlie did for standing.

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Speaker 2: Up for truth, you know.

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Speaker 1: And then the irony is his killer obviously thought that

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Speaker 1: he was shutting this down, that by killing Charlie he

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Speaker 1: would silence his voice, and instead, like we're just the

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Speaker 1: the response to this, I'm just in awe of like

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Speaker 1: just millions of people gathering and even like the United

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Speaker 1: Kingdom and California and places that tend to be more.

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Speaker 3: Liberal, South Korea.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like the.

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Speaker 1: Amount of video right, like, just the amount of video

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Speaker 1: is being posted, and people like declaring their faith and

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Speaker 1: standing up for their beliefs, and you know, it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's remarkable what this has stoked throughout the world.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And and I hope it continues. You know, I

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Speaker 4: remember after nine to eleven when everybody was grieving and

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Speaker 4: churches were swelled with attendance, as ours was on Sunday.

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Speaker 4: I mean, we had hundreds of extra people here on Sunday.

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Speaker 4: It affects the psyche of America and when there's a

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Speaker 4: national tragedy like this, and so I just hope that

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Speaker 4: it continues. I hope that what's been ignited continues to

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Speaker 4: burn brightly, because this can be a new day. This

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Speaker 4: could be a great time for America. It can be

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Speaker 4: a great spiritual revival that sweeps across our country. So

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Speaker 4: I pray that his death is not in vain and

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Speaker 4: that some great things will come out of it.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people are can be frustrated

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Speaker 1: sometimes and feel like, you know, churches try.

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Speaker 2: To like tow the line or they're not trying.

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Speaker 1: To you know, they don't want to offend or you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's you've kind of done things differently. Why do

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Speaker 1: you think some other churches and other pastors sort of

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Speaker 1: choose to not engage in some of these battles, and

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Speaker 1: then why have you chosen the opposite.

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Speaker 3: It's an ironic thing, Lisa.

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Speaker 4: I know pastors who are afraid to speak out on

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Speaker 4: these issues because they think people.

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Speaker 3: Will leave their church.

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Speaker 4: And then people leave their church and then take their

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Speaker 4: money with them, so they're afraid of losing numbers and

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Speaker 4: they're afraid of losing money. What I have found is

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Speaker 4: that it's the opposite. We're living in a time right

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Speaker 4: now where people are so hungry for the truth that

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Speaker 4: when I say things that may not be all that

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Speaker 4: popular to a culture that doesn't believe that for every

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Speaker 4: one person who leaves my church, three more come.

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Speaker 3: And I'm not exaggerating.

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Speaker 4: I mean we have seen growth in our church numerically

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Speaker 4: and financially, and my goal has not been numerica or

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Speaker 4: financial growth. It's just simply I've witnessed the fact that

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Speaker 4: when you stand for what is right and you tell

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Speaker 4: the truth, there's a hunger right now in America for

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Speaker 4: somebody to tell people the truth. And I encourage pastors

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Speaker 4: and churches like, don't be afraid, because yeah, some people

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Speaker 4: will leave your church, but others will come because they're searching,

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Speaker 4: they're hungry, they want to know more. But unfortunately a

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Speaker 4: lot of the woke mentality has infiltrated the church, and

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Speaker 4: churches are hanging out rainbow flags and other things, and

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Speaker 4: they're turning to social justice more than they are the Bible,

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Speaker 4: and so they're watering down everything. And that doesn't help anybody.

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Speaker 4: That does a horrible disservice to people. So I'm encouraged

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Speaker 4: that there's a real hunger for the truth. And it's

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Speaker 4: a joy to stand up and share God's word because

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Speaker 4: I know it's what is liberating. You know, Jesus said,

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Speaker 4: if you know the truth, the truth will set you.

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Speaker 2: Fore, I got to take a quick break.

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Speaker 1: If this show is resonating with you, please share on

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Speaker 1: social media or send it to a friend or a

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Speaker 1: family member. You know. And you've also chosen to engage

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Speaker 1: in politics where you know some other churches might not.

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Speaker 1: Why have you decided to do that? Why is that

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Speaker 1: important to you?

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Speaker 4: And in two thousand and eight, I had David Barton,

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Speaker 4: who's the president of wall Builders, look at my church

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Speaker 4: and he asked me. Then he said, do you preach

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Speaker 4: election sermons? And I said, David, what's an election sermon?

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Speaker 4: And he actually showed me. And I ended up buying

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Speaker 4: a two volume set of books called Political Sermons of

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Speaker 4: the American Founding Era. And it was from the late

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Speaker 4: sixteen hundreds into the mid seventeen hundreds where during the

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Speaker 4: colonial period, pastors would get up in their pulpit and

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Speaker 4: they would call out the candidates. They would talk about

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Speaker 4: the Bible in terms of how it should shape our

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Speaker 4: political views and how we should vote in that regard.

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Speaker 3: So and I just started.

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Speaker 4: Looking into American history and realizing, for example, twenty nine

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Speaker 4: out of fifty six of the signus of the Declaration

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Speaker 4: of Independence had Bible school or seminary training. Their faith

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Speaker 4: influenced the founding of America. I mean, for goodness, look

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Speaker 4: at the opening of the Declaration of Independence that we

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Speaker 4: are endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights. I

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Speaker 4: mean they put God right at the top of the document.

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Speaker 4: So when I started realizing how much much of faith

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Speaker 4: has shaped America as a pastor. I wanted to be

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Speaker 4: faithful to do the same and to continue that tradition.

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Speaker 4: And it's not only American tradition. You look into the

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Speaker 4: Bible and the profits of old they called out kings,

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Speaker 4: the prophet spoke truth to power, and so I see

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Speaker 4: that as part of my responsibility. I know politics is

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Speaker 4: not all that popular because some people come to church

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Speaker 4: and they think, oh, separation of church and state, which

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Speaker 4: is nowhere in the Bill Rights, Constitution, or Declaration of Independence.

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Speaker 4: It was in a letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to Danberry,

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Speaker 4: Baptist in Connecticut, but people have taken that to mean

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Speaker 4: politics has no place in the church. My opinion is

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Speaker 4: everything about our faith should shape our influence in the

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Speaker 4: world culturally, socially, even politically, and so as a pastor,

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Speaker 4: I feel it's a responsibility to help the people to

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Speaker 4: be engaged.

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Speaker 2: How did you get into the ministry?

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Speaker 4: You know, that's a good story. I actually was going

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Speaker 4: the out that you've gone. I was at American University

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Speaker 4: as a journalism major, and I just couldn't shake at least.

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Speaker 4: I came into faith to believe in Jesus Christ as

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Speaker 4: my Lord and Savior, and when I was fifteen, and

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Speaker 4: so when I started, you know, finishing out high school

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Speaker 4: and heading into college, I had it in my mind

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Speaker 4: to pursue communications and journalism, but I just couldn't get

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Speaker 4: away from this sense that God wanted me to serve

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Speaker 4: him in ministry. And you know, people have ministry wherever

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Speaker 4: they're planted. I don't ever wanted to discount the influence

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Speaker 4: that people can have in whatever area that they are

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Speaker 4: employed or wherever God takes them. But for me, it

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Speaker 4: was more of a commitment that I believed God wanted

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Speaker 4: me to have in serving him full time. So in

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Speaker 4: the middle of college, I switched schools and went to

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Speaker 4: a Bible college and then finished and a door opened

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Speaker 4: for me to plant Cornerstone.

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Speaker 3: And that was now.

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Speaker 4: Thirty four years ago, and we planned it with eight

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Speaker 4: team charter members and now thousands of people later.

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Speaker 3: I just give God all the glory.

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Speaker 1: And before we go, what message do you want to

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Speaker 1: leave us with? You know?

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Speaker 4: I remember there was a podcast that Charlie Kirk did

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Speaker 4: that they've been showing on social media these days, where

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Speaker 4: he was asked, what do you remember? What do you

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Speaker 4: want to be remembered for when all this goes away?

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Speaker 4: And Charlie was kind of shocked by the question. He said,

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Speaker 4: you mean when I die, And the interviewer just asked

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Speaker 4: the question again, just when it all goes away, what

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Speaker 4: do you want to be remembered for? And he said,

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Speaker 4: I want to be remembered for the courage of my faith.

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Speaker 4: And that spoke to me and I think what's important

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Speaker 4: for all of us to remember is that we live

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Speaker 4: in a world where truth matters, and so stand for truth,

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Speaker 4: be courageous in your faith, make a difference in the

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Speaker 4: world for the glory of God. And if you really

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Speaker 4: love people more than you love yourself, you will want

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Speaker 4: to share the truth with them more than protecting your

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Speaker 4: own personal popularity. I think the message today is be

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Speaker 4: courageous and be bold because the world needs it.

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Speaker 1: Pastor Gary Hammerick, we appreciate you making the time, sir.

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Speaker 1: I think we needed this, so thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for making the time.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Lisa, it's been a privilege to be with

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Speaker 3: you those.

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Speaker 1: Pastor Gary Hamrick Cornerstone Chapel, we appreciate him for making

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Speaker 1: the time to come on the show just imparting some

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Speaker 1: wisdom on.

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Speaker 2: Us as well.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday,

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Speaker 1: but you can listen throughout the week.

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Speaker 2: I also want to thank.

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Speaker 1: My producer, John Cassio for putting the show together.

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Speaker 2: Until next time,