Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric, and this is next question.
Speaker 1: So I have a confession to make. I love Michael J.
Speaker 1: Fox and I love Tracy Pollin. I have known this
Speaker 1: couple for several years now. I've interviewed Michael many times
Speaker 1: through the years, and I have to admit both of
Speaker 1: them are my personal heroes. But when I saw Still,
Speaker 1: the newly released documentary that chronicles his life, I felt
Speaker 1: like I got to know Michael in a whole new way.
Speaker 1: The film is part eighties movie featuring Michael as the
Speaker 1: unlikely hero and is charming, supercharged, always on the move way,
Speaker 1: but it's also such a deeply, profoundly personal story because
Speaker 1: it features Michael as another kind of unlikely hero, as
Speaker 1: someone who's fighting a battle every second of every day
Speaker 1: with Parkinson's disease.
Speaker 2: It seem to a dance you do in this this
Speaker 2: thing that I'm doing that I'm playing with his pill.
Speaker 2: I'm moving this same movement. I said, I'm finding ways
Speaker 2: to negotiate with this thing that's with me all the time,
Speaker 2: and so I'm having a conversation with you, but I'm
Speaker 2: also having this this WCO Roman wrestling match with his
Speaker 2: monster is my Brain.
Speaker 1: Academy Award winning filmmaker Davis Guggenheim, who I also admire
Speaker 1: a ton, spent three years making this documentary, capturing Michael's struggles,
Speaker 1: but also getting up close and personal with what motivates Michael,
Speaker 1: and that is a deep connection to his family, a
Speaker 1: gigantic heart, and the knowledge that he is encouraging so
Speaker 1: many other people dealing with Parkinson's.
Speaker 3: He's actually the sweetest guy, the most wonderful guy I've
Speaker 3: ever worked with.
Speaker 1: On today's episode of Next Question, you'll hear how the
Speaker 1: filmmaker and the subject of Still came together to create
Speaker 1: an unforgettable portrait of a dear friend and an incredibly
Speaker 1: courageous man who has so much to teach us about
Speaker 1: what it means to live and appreciate every single day.
Speaker 1: I'll yeah, is it okay, okay, good?
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 1: First of all, Hi guys, I'm so happy to see
Speaker 1: you both. Davis. It's been a long time, Mike, less long,
Speaker 1: but always love being with you. I finished watching the
Speaker 1: documentary and I have one word for both of you,
Speaker 1: which is wow. I loved it. I thought, I mean,
Speaker 1: I love Michael, so I was predisposed, but there's so much.
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you all about and I
Speaker 1: guess the first question is is for Mike, why now?
Speaker 1: Why did you want to do this documentary? Now becos?
Speaker 4: He asked me.
Speaker 2: I think really I was just hanging out, not doing anything,
Speaker 2: and kind of like the air was ripe with the
Speaker 2: opportunity united and what the opportunity was to do something
Speaker 2: interesting and and Davis called me, and I think I
Speaker 2: said some things that he liked, which, as I said,
Speaker 2: if we do this, I'm not interested in editing you.
Speaker 4: I'm not interested in making a.
Speaker 2: Movie about how I got you to make a movie
Speaker 2: I want to make Yeah, I want you really just
Speaker 2: so you are at it and so it happens. And
Speaker 2: as far as why now, the more complicated answer, which
Speaker 2: is that I broke my hand.
Speaker 4: Can't play histar anymore, my handshakes.
Speaker 2: I can't draw anymore. I can't paign anymore. I can't
Speaker 2: I can't all this stuff. I can't do that I
Speaker 2: ever could, but things I enjoyed and things that gave
Speaker 2: me peace, and he gave me a sense of doing
Speaker 2: doing something and now and my life has become my clay.
Speaker 2: And I was like, throw it back, were going to
Speaker 2: make something else of it, and that's what this is.
Speaker 1: It really was an opportunity for you to be creative
Speaker 1: in another way and to look back on your life.
Speaker 1: And Davis, before I talk to you about the really
Speaker 1: unique way that you made this film, which is a
Speaker 1: visual amalgamation and audio amalgamation of Michael's life, why did
Speaker 1: you decide you wanted to do a documentary about Michael J. Fox.
Speaker 3: I was on Martha's vineyard during COVID and feeling pretty low,
Speaker 3: feeling in a personal rut and a professional rut, and
Speaker 3: feeling like I just made the same movie over and
Speaker 3: over again.
Speaker 2: And I was.
Speaker 3: Looking not just for a movie, but just for some lifeline.
Speaker 3: And I started reading his book No Time Like the Future,
Speaker 3: and there was wisdom in it for me in an
Speaker 3: unexpected place. I didn't think I was going to find
Speaker 3: wisdom from a.
Speaker 1: Movie, he says dismissively. He's written four books. Did you
Speaker 1: read all four of them? Davis? Ultimately, Yeah, the.
Speaker 3: Deep dive into all his stuff and it's easy to
Speaker 3: sort of say, oh, that's a that's a famous person
Speaker 3: just writing something. First of all, he's a great writer.
Speaker 3: There's a great storytelling in it, and there's humor and
Speaker 3: wisdom in it that I personally needed.
Speaker 1: So you decided to tackle this project, and you had
Speaker 1: some challenges because there was limited footage of Mike as
Speaker 1: a little boy. Although God blessed those class photos. They
Speaker 1: killed me. Honestly, they are priceless. I'm so glad you
Speaker 1: kept those. So there were some things from Michael's childhood.
Speaker 1: But there were also limitations in terms of how you
Speaker 1: got the visual vocabulary to tell Michael's story. So put
Speaker 1: together the pieces of the puzzle, because I know it
Speaker 1: was sort of a conversation between you and your editor
Speaker 1: and you were trying to figure out, like, how do
Speaker 1: we tell this story?
Speaker 3: Right? So with the glue of all this is Michael's
Speaker 3: great writing and his voice carries the movie. But then
Speaker 3: there's part, like you say, they're parts of his life
Speaker 3: that were there weren't cameras, and so my my solution
Speaker 3: was re enactments. But Michael Hart, this brilliant editor from
Speaker 3: Donegal Ireland, Michael Fox's clapping right now quietly and and
Speaker 3: and his solution was to use some of Michael J.
Speaker 3: Fox's movies.
Speaker 1: It was brilliant.
Speaker 3: I'm not period in ways that I would never have.
Speaker 1: Imagined, right, So you give me an example when.
Speaker 2: I was falling a little Tracy, I was so in
Speaker 2: love with the schirl and we were seeing other people
Speaker 2: in it. She just only did the show for short
Speaker 2: any time, so I thought, he's just gonna go away?
Speaker 4: Person, Am I just going to see you anymore?
Speaker 2: And and a great moment our car is really a
Speaker 2: nice metaphor when when she was leaving the show for
Speaker 2: the last time and Mike car was parked next to
Speaker 2: her car at parking lot, her rental rabbit in my Ferrari.
Speaker 1: That yeah, I mean, doesn't that say it all?
Speaker 2: By the way, Mike, Oh my Ferrari, you get in
Speaker 2: my Ferrari to get into a rabbit to talk about
Speaker 2: about and I guess she's really worried about me. He's
Speaker 2: just girl, I'm only in love with this one and
Speaker 2: see her again she thinks I'm gonna die in partying
Speaker 2: to her and a you have the job, bab having
Speaker 2: lunch and she we got married two years later. So
Speaker 2: so it was this amazing moment. We shot the big
Speaker 2: scene down in a Grance village walking through the streets
Speaker 2: and the characters.
Speaker 1: Falling in love from bright lights, big city, big.
Speaker 4: City and I was the person who was living in
Speaker 4: that and I felt the.
Speaker 3: Same, but on a date in the movie, but they're
Speaker 3: also dating and lit by Gordon Willis, the guy who
Speaker 3: shot The Godfather. So it's like beautiful, beautiful there in silhouette,
Speaker 3: and her first line is I was looking at the
Speaker 3: other night. She goes, I guess I'm supposed to be
Speaker 3: impressed by your big, fancy job, which is true for
Speaker 3: the characters in that movie, but it was also true
Speaker 3: in their life. He had just done back to the
Speaker 3: future and he's he's she's still not impressed.
Speaker 1: But that's but it's true in so many cases. You've
Speaker 1: found a place for art imitating life and it really
Speaker 1: works so well. I was curious where this came from
Speaker 1: the beginning of the film, Michael wakes up and he
Speaker 1: notices his his pinkiest fluttering. I think you showed Michael
Speaker 1: in bed, so you you intercut a reenactment. Tell me
Speaker 1: about that scene and why you chose to start with that.
Speaker 3: Why do we start there? It cuts to Michael present
Speaker 3: time in bed as well, right, and this is great line,
Speaker 3: which is, uh, he's about what pinky is, and it's
Speaker 3: like this, this is a message from the future, right,
Speaker 3: which is obviously incredible reference to Back to the Future,
Speaker 3: but also gave me this incredible optunity to jump forward
Speaker 3: in time to Michael.
Speaker 2: Now and double time.
Speaker 1: There really are And obviously the title of the film
Speaker 1: is still, but you use that in contrast with Michael,
Speaker 1: who was for so long just and still is in
Speaker 1: constant motion, right, you know. And you you allude to
Speaker 1: that Michael towards the end about sort of always moving,
Speaker 1: always moving, And it's amazing how many of those shots
Speaker 1: that you all found beautifully illustrated sort of the frenetic
Speaker 1: energy of Michael.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a feeling that and this is in your
Speaker 3: book because all these go back to Michael's writing. But
Speaker 3: for a long time, you're running towards something, which is
Speaker 3: what what you said, that would be the destiny, future, future, fame, Hollywood,
Speaker 3: you know. And then of course he's running away from
Speaker 3: Parkinson's always running, always running, always running.
Speaker 4: The biggest thing was me watching movies. You sucked me in.
Speaker 4: I felt I was watching a movie and like, even
Speaker 4: though it was about me, I just.
Speaker 1: When you saw all those scenes, did you feel like
Speaker 1: you were watching your life flash before your eyes in
Speaker 1: a way.
Speaker 4: Very much, very much. It was amazing.
Speaker 2: We all have this fantasy where someone takes your life
Speaker 2: and goes, this is it. You look at some total
Speaker 2: of what you've done and what you've accomplished, what you
Speaker 2: haven't accomplished, who you love, who loves you, and it
Speaker 2: was all there. I had this gift, he and me,
Speaker 2: this is really amazing, and I guess I am who
Speaker 2: I thought I was, which kind of nice.
Speaker 1: When we come back, you'll hear what really happened when
Speaker 1: Michael was told off by his now wife Tracy on
Speaker 1: the day they met. We're back with Michael J. Fox
Speaker 1: and Davis Guggenheim.
Speaker 3: Can I ask that question, Katie, because yeah, you make
Speaker 3: your film, it's over, and then you have a new question.
Speaker 3: And I don't think I ever asked this, but because
Speaker 3: now I see Michael as this incredible role model, he's
Speaker 3: become the spectacular human. Did you have any intention of
Speaker 3: being this person? Now?
Speaker 2: No, I just wanted to drag all the beard and
Speaker 2: going to their girlfriends.
Speaker 3: It's always said, you know, in in forty years, you're
Speaker 3: going to be this guy who starts a foundation.
Speaker 4: In this That's that's that's weird.
Speaker 3: That's weird.
Speaker 4: I'm telling you what you know because you did it.
Speaker 4: But but this is moving towards.
Speaker 2: Something and moving away from something, moving towards the signing
Speaker 2: of his kid is gonna leave Canada?
Speaker 4: Who does that?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: You don't move from Canada to California at seventeen is preposterous.
Speaker 1: I thought one of the great things about the film
Speaker 1: was I didn't realize how hard it was when you
Speaker 1: first got to La I got you illustrated that really well.
Speaker 1: You know when when Michael had to sell his sectional couch,
Speaker 1: you know, bit by bit, how you know you were
Speaker 1: living on McDonald's and you were eating I think you
Speaker 1: said you would get those little jam or jelly packets
Speaker 1: and eat those. I mean, yeah, yeah, I mean talk
Speaker 1: about like a starving artist. But that was really fun
Speaker 1: to watch those family ties moments, and particularly because Gary
Speaker 1: David Goldberg did not want him. I remember reading about
Speaker 1: this in any way, shape or form. He didn't want you,
Speaker 1: Brandon Tartakoff didn't want you. Said you were never going
Speaker 1: to be on the front of a lunch box, and
Speaker 1: you send him a lunchbox with something like here I
Speaker 1: am love Michael or whatever you're crowing. Oh yeah, oh
Speaker 1: this is this is to put your crow in. Well,
Speaker 1: you were kind of a dick a little bit, you know,
Speaker 1: doing family ties. You got, as my mom would say,
Speaker 1: a little big for your breeches, and you would admit that.
Speaker 4: And that footage.
Speaker 1: Very demanded shot and you could even tell that Justin
Speaker 1: Bateman was like rolling her eyes, like this guy is
Speaker 1: so annoying and obnoxious, right, and yeah, no, I saw
Speaker 1: how many shots and I saw it? Yeah, exactly, and
Speaker 1: she's rolling her eyes. So you were being kind of
Speaker 1: a tool and and got a little full of yourself.
Speaker 1: And you talk about a scene you were in with
Speaker 1: Tracy Coolin, who is also a friend who I adore,
Speaker 1: and she had garlic breath, and you made some joke
Speaker 1: about how was that trump scampy, a.
Speaker 3: Little scampy for lunch, babe scampy when the documentarian has
Speaker 3: to do the one liner, you're in trouble.
Speaker 4: The baby.
Speaker 1: Tracy looked you in the eye and said that was
Speaker 1: really mean, that was cruel and you were.
Speaker 4: A complete fucking asshole.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that really since you were the golden boy.
Speaker 1: In fact, you saying the documentary nobody had really ever
Speaker 1: talked to me like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, got a little chubby got a little chubby in
Speaker 2: that moment, little turned on by how cool she was was.
Speaker 1: Oh, you got a little chubby. Sorry, I didn't know
Speaker 1: what you were talking about. That took me a few minutes. Okay,
Speaker 1: well thanks for that. So but I was going to
Speaker 1: ask you, is that one of many things that attracted
Speaker 1: you to her that she just like was direct and
Speaker 1: told you exactly what you needed to hear it that time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's brilliant that way. She just can see things clearly.
Speaker 2: And this is a really difficult time for her right
Speaker 2: now with me getting all this attention for this film,
Speaker 2: because because she's not me, she's her and like to
Speaker 2: this day, I mean that, I love that. It makes
Speaker 2: me full of love for her. I just think, yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 2: she hadn't have partisans.
Speaker 4: I have partisans.
Speaker 2: She has experienced it every day and she has to
Speaker 2: and I have to make sure I find the room
Speaker 2: for her to be her separate from this. And that
Speaker 2: was kind of like what you were saying that the
Speaker 2: first thing I was saying, I'm not here to play
Speaker 2: your game and I don't have.
Speaker 1: To put up with your being a jerk. I'll just
Speaker 1: scrap Davis. I'm just curious as an outsider, as a filmmaker,
Speaker 1: someone who has spent time with both of them now
Speaker 1: a lot of time, what have you observed about their relationship,
Speaker 1: because they are just quite remarkable.
Speaker 3: I agree, And one thing they share is devotion to family.
Speaker 3: Michael is a complete open book and making this movie,
Speaker 3: but both Tracy and Michael were protective of their family.
Speaker 3: It's like, not just to keep them off camera, but
Speaker 3: just to they have their own lives. I'm not I
Speaker 3: don't speak for you, guys, but that's what Tracy and Hey,
Speaker 3: this film shouldn't even remotely detract from what they're doing.
Speaker 3: What they're doing in their own lives is more important
Speaker 3: that devotion to family. I think is is really really beautiful.
Speaker 1: But let's let's talk kids.
Speaker 2: Up.
Speaker 4: People said, said ask about Parkinsons.
Speaker 2: They would not they didn't get it, they wouldn't get
Speaker 2: the connection, they wouldn't like it was never a big
Speaker 2: part of our lives. Are my fame with a big
Speaker 2: part of their lives their own lives are really interesting
Speaker 2: people for sweet people, the very kind.
Speaker 1: People, very unpretentious and they're not of themselves. They never
Speaker 1: right on your celebrity or trac and it's amazing that
Speaker 1: all of your kids turned out to be such normal, good, hardworking,
Speaker 1: kind people. There's so many great stories and obviously the
Speaker 1: foundation of the documentary is Michael talking. And how many
Speaker 1: days did you spend doing those interviews?
Speaker 3: I almost didn't do them at all. So my first
Speaker 3: idea was no interviews. I wanted just to make a
Speaker 3: movie where you get lost in the footage.
Speaker 1: Uh huh.
Speaker 3: What I pitched to Apple was I wanted to make
Speaker 3: a documentary that felt like an eighties movie. And then
Speaker 3: I did this commercial. This dpiece showed me the shot
Speaker 3: where the camera's right here and Michael and I are
Speaker 3: like look at each other, like really really close. Usually,
Speaker 3: you know, sometimes you're ten feet away, right, and there's
Speaker 3: lots of people and a guy geting a sandwich, and
Speaker 3: you know, and this one angle, Michael could look me
Speaker 3: in the eye, but it looks like he's looking into
Speaker 3: the camera, right. I said, that's I'm going to try that.
Speaker 3: And we went to your office on Fifth Avenue and
Speaker 3: we did that one interview and it was just electric.
Speaker 3: Like you see in the movie. He's just so winning,
Speaker 3: he's so charismatic, he's so funny, so.
Speaker 1: Intimate and so honest and so so.
Speaker 3: Really honest, and I go, wow, this is the core
Speaker 3: of the movie. And so that one setup we did
Speaker 3: six days over a year.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 3: So the last thing we shot was that last one
Speaker 3: with your last therapy session with Ryan.
Speaker 1: The process of even doing that interview was probably pretty
Speaker 1: tiring for Michael.
Speaker 3: A lot happened in that year we're shooting. It was
Speaker 3: you call it, we tell your doctor. It was a
Speaker 3: festival self abuse.
Speaker 4: I kept breaking him in.
Speaker 1: You broke your hand.
Speaker 4: I broke both arms. I broke my shoulder, hit my
Speaker 4: shoulder replaced. I brought my face. I broke my elbow
Speaker 4: and it was really painful. It was in the hospital.
Speaker 4: I'm down for a good time.
Speaker 2: I don't want to be a jerk anybody, but it's constantly, constantly,
Speaker 2: I always say, what do you think I'm doing?
Speaker 4: And doing something else, and it's just the fact of
Speaker 4: your life.
Speaker 2: Everything that I do, Like the movie, everything happens in
Speaker 2: the context of Negoshi with this thing.
Speaker 1: You know, I want to talk about three moments in
Speaker 1: the movie that really affected me. So you were diagnosed
Speaker 1: at twenty nine and nineteen ninety one, is that right?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And then you told the world you had it ninety
Speaker 1: eight and you're dealing with so much and then you're
Speaker 1: dealing with having to keep this a secret. And I
Speaker 1: was curious, looking back on it, now, do you have
Speaker 1: any regrets about not telling the world? Was you were
Speaker 1: really afraid? And you talk about this in the film
Speaker 1: if people would accept you, if they would find you funny,
Speaker 1: you know what the reaction would be. But at the
Speaker 1: same time, harboring this secret must have been so much
Speaker 1: pressure on you as well.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was. It was hard.
Speaker 2: I'm Tracy was amazing during that time, and she got
Speaker 2: me too, like like I had to figure out how
Speaker 2: to keep a secret and I quit drinking, So that
Speaker 2: was that was interesting. And then and then I was
Speaker 2: I was she was dangerous losing my marriage and losing
Speaker 2: my family. One of the things really affected me in
Speaker 2: a great way and paid off downline was when I
Speaker 2: said I had Parkinson's and all this fuss happened on
Speaker 2: tabloids and stuff, and I got these chat rooms with.
Speaker 4: The Parkinson's patients who didn't know it was me, and I.
Speaker 2: Talked to him and said, what about this Michael fun
Speaker 2: And they said, I love that he had Parkinson's. And
Speaker 2: when I got over the shock these people celebrating the
Speaker 2: fact that I had parties.
Speaker 4: So I got it.
Speaker 2: I went, I get it, and then my goal began
Speaker 2: to get to the point where eventually got to I
Speaker 2: could step into that and saying here's what I can't do,
Speaker 2: here's what I can't do, let's talk about it.
Speaker 1: So that's when you started the fat Foundation. You know,
Speaker 1: I did have to laugh when you used that sort
Speaker 1: of cloying Barbara Walters interview, May She Rest in Peace?
Speaker 1: That was sort of unctuous and inappropriate. What did she say, Davis.
Speaker 3: You're in the fight for your life.
Speaker 1: It's almost the way she said it more than her words, right,
Speaker 1: because you were afraid that audiences would treat you differently.
Speaker 1: And I love the line when Michael said, oh my god,
Speaker 1: what have I done, because he was now being subjected
Speaker 1: to that kind of maudlin pitying kind of interaction, and
Speaker 1: you were like, holy shit, was it better when I
Speaker 1: kept it a secret just for that nanosecond. The other
Speaker 1: moment that I was very taken by was when you
Speaker 1: were with your physical therapist. You said something along the
Speaker 1: lines Michael, of people are looking to me, they're looking
Speaker 1: to me fighting this disease, and I can't let them down.
Speaker 1: Your physical therapist said, you know, you don't always have
Speaker 1: to be Michael J. Fox, And it made me think
Speaker 1: what a huge responsibility and how unfair in many ways
Speaker 1: that was to you. And I wondered, Gosh, does Mike
Speaker 1: ever think I don't want to be the goddamn poster
Speaker 1: child for Parkinson's disease. I wondered about that, because you've
Speaker 1: got so much you're dealing with already, as you said,
Speaker 1: simultaneously navigating what's happening in your brain every moment while
Speaker 1: trying to carry on a conversation while trying to walk
Speaker 1: down the street in New York City and trying not
Speaker 1: to fall. And then I'm like, this guy feels like
Speaker 1: he can't let people down.
Speaker 4: It's a schnauz around your pant leg.
Speaker 2: But no I think about that is that I'm fool
Speaker 2: enough and ready enough to take that and and and
Speaker 2: to move forward with it. And if it's a role
Speaker 2: for me to play, I'll play because God damn, and
Speaker 2: know all that's been said and done, I'm gonna lucky him.
Speaker 4: I'm like, I just keeps from Canada. I have his
Speaker 4: beautiful wife, these great kids.
Speaker 2: I'm a multimillionaire, I've got I got like this life
Speaker 2: I've lived that should yes for me to step up
Speaker 2: and do something. And and and so I started a
Speaker 2: great privilege, great great opportunity, and and and I just
Speaker 2: menasgued to running to great people along the way, and
Speaker 2: and just just focus on what we needed to do.
Speaker 2: And I guess the answer all your questions is just
Speaker 2: not personal. It's not personal circumstance. It's a circus of circumstance.
Speaker 2: And I just walk in the line, and I thought,
Speaker 2: you know, there's something I can do here. And what
Speaker 2: I could do was I could rally people. And I
Speaker 2: don't take credit for I've done. I'm glad that I'm
Speaker 2: part of a group of people that get this done.
Speaker 2: Where I will take credit for, or I'm proud of
Speaker 2: at least is there's a woman that's going to the grocery.
Speaker 4: Store right now.
Speaker 2: Twenty years I wouldn't have done a grocery store, wouldn't
Speaker 2: fumble with the change first, wouldn't have risk the guy
Speaker 2: in the part of I think she was drunk, but
Speaker 2: she got into your car.
Speaker 4: It was a horrible life.
Speaker 2: And now, perhaps because of me, to a certain extent
Speaker 2: she could say, yeah, person like Michael Fox, But.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you. I mentioned three parts of
Speaker 1: the doc that really affected me, and one is when
Speaker 1: you're talking to Michael and one of the interviews over
Speaker 1: those six days. During one of those interviews, there's a
Speaker 1: point in the film where you guys deal with what
Speaker 1: you call shitty stuff, and Davis, you imply that Michael
Speaker 1: darts away when you ask him how he feels and
Speaker 1: you talk to him about are you in pain?
Speaker 3: So the film was finished. I mean I had a
Speaker 3: version of the film that you could show someone and
Speaker 3: it worked. It was great. But I remember watching it
Speaker 3: with the editor, Michael Hart, and I go, just there's
Speaker 3: something missing here because with all of Michael's optimism and
Speaker 3: with all his insistence not to be pitied, which is
Speaker 3: an important thing for me too, not to do that,
Speaker 3: I realized that he didn't actually tell us the full
Speaker 3: story of the year he's been through, and that he
Speaker 3: wasn't pain. And of course the way you say it's
Speaker 3: pretty funny, but it's like it's like it never came up.
Speaker 3: I said, talked to you for hours and hours and hours,
Speaker 3: you never talked about your pain. The first thing you
Speaker 3: say is I'm in a tremendous amount of pain. And
Speaker 3: I was actually really shocking when you said it to me,
Speaker 3: because I was like, oh, like, you're really good at
Speaker 3: hiding it. You really not only do not talk about it,
Speaker 3: but you don't exhibit it, you know. And it's it's
Speaker 3: a flip side of this optimism, right, And he just goes, well,
Speaker 3: I'm not going to lead with it.
Speaker 1: Are there moments, Michael when you're not not so brave?
Speaker 2: I'm brave as brave as I hear we're brave and
Speaker 2: courage And I had no choice. I No, I mean like, like, okay,
Speaker 2: let's be brave. So I guess the fall back is
Speaker 2: I'm brave?
Speaker 1: Well, I guess. I mean, do you ever allow yourself
Speaker 1: to be furious? You know, to rage?
Speaker 2: Wage away?
Speaker 4: I used to rage when I was younger. I like
Speaker 4: when Tracey talks about I say, what was it?
Speaker 3: Tack?
Speaker 4: Because I can see the pain in her face. I
Speaker 4: can I can see how hard that was. AH like rage.
Speaker 2: I don't feel rage now. I think the thing that
Speaker 2: I feel now that that is not pleasant is I
Speaker 2: haven't got a trick for it. There's no easy answer. No,
Speaker 2: I can't I can't content.
Speaker 4: I can't charm it. I can't I can't bush it
Speaker 4: into the cornfield. You know, it's just it's just there.
Speaker 4: I think a word.
Speaker 2: I'm cops a certain amount of wisdom, hard and wisdom,
Speaker 2: and I want to look at something and say, Okay,
Speaker 2: I can look at this this way ten times and
Speaker 2: never get anywhere and get pissed off and get frustrated,
Speaker 2: or I can just go yeah, move on.
Speaker 1: It's more like, uh, acceptance, acceptance.
Speaker 4: Acceptance is huge. Acceptance and gratitude. Well, everything I've ever
Speaker 4: written is one one that I kind of go, well,
Speaker 4: that's good.
Speaker 2: If that's that's my one one one that I write
Speaker 2: in my life, I'm happy with that, which is with gratitude,
Speaker 2: optimism and sustainable. If I can, I I'm something to
Speaker 2: be grateful and every day I can win that day.
Speaker 1: That's great advice for everyone, honestly and so true. Up next,
Speaker 1: how Michael's Foundation helped bring a game changing breakthrough in
Speaker 1: Parkinson's research. If you want to get smarter every morning
Speaker 1: with a breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on
Speaker 1: health and wellness and pop culture, sign up for our
Speaker 1: daily newsletter Wake Upcall by going to Katiecuric dot com.
Speaker 1: We're back with Michael and Davis. Although Parkinson's disease is
Speaker 1: the second most common neurodegenerative disorder in the US after Alzheimer's,
Speaker 1: the only course of action for patients is to treat
Speaker 1: their symptoms, and unfortunately, by the time those symptoms are visible,
Speaker 1: the disease is already well underway. That's why a major
Speaker 1: goal for researchers has been to diagnose Parkinson's earlier and
Speaker 1: develop interventions to slow it down or stop it altogether. Now,
Speaker 1: the results of a major news study are in and
Speaker 1: with monumental help from the Michael J. Fox Foundation, it
Speaker 1: looks like earlier diagnosis may actually become a reality. The breakthrough,
Speaker 1: announced this month in the journal Lancet Neurology, involves the
Speaker 1: discovery of a biomarker called alpha sinnucleon. I talked with
Speaker 1: Michael all about this important step. I wanted to talk
Speaker 1: to you about the research for Parkinson's because you know,
Speaker 1: as somebody who saw my dad's succumbed to the disease
Speaker 1: and my dad died in twenty eleven, you were diagnosed
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety one. So much money, so much research,
Speaker 1: so many brilliant scientists. Why has it been so so
Speaker 1: hard to come up with better medication to control the
Speaker 1: disease or even god willing a cure.
Speaker 2: Talk to me about that diagnosis. You move funny and
Speaker 2: you can't keep your hands still or whatever. And so
Speaker 2: we run through a series of tests and it kind
Speaker 2: of a subjective way till you get part with a
Speaker 2: lot of times you're right.
Speaker 4: But that's what it is.
Speaker 2: We've never had a biological way to say, yes, you
Speaker 2: have these markers. So because that takes a lot of work,
Speaker 2: because you got to take this common cohort of people
Speaker 2: that have similar symptoms and problems and eliminate them. And
Speaker 2: that's again that takes billions of dollars. Luckily we came
Speaker 2: into billions of dollars. Yeah, and we found a way
Speaker 2: to do it.
Speaker 1: And this was like over a thousand patients from.
Speaker 2: Right. We needed to get spinal taps, we needed to
Speaker 2: get spinal fluid, which is hard to extract, it's very painful.
Speaker 2: We get to get people who didn't have Parkers to
Speaker 2: do small.
Speaker 1: Tabs wow, which is like that's hard to do.
Speaker 4: Let's take a needle in his fine. So but we
Speaker 4: found enough people to do it.
Speaker 2: We found family members that love their family, love their
Speaker 2: their and their uncle, their mom and their dad, and
Speaker 2: subjected to themselves to this and that was a key thing.
Speaker 2: So when I when I go through, when I thank
Speaker 2: people for this, it really it takes a metropolis. It
Speaker 2: takes a billion people to get this done. It's huge
Speaker 2: what's happened because now we can get to the point
Speaker 2: where where a four year old gets a swamp and
Speaker 2: we found out they're gonna have Parkinsons in twenty years
Speaker 2: and then we give them a pill and send them
Speaker 2: on their way.
Speaker 1: And so this was the Parkinson's Progression Markers initiative. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and basically it found.
Speaker 4: Out disc everything we could isolate this.
Speaker 1: Protein, isolate a protein that is present in Parkinson's patients.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we can we can find a way to
Speaker 2: isolate it and to see it laid bare and say
Speaker 2: that's why.
Speaker 1: You have parking And does that mean you could potentially.
Speaker 2: The gate's opening and drug companies flooding in because they're
Speaker 2: gonna make a billion jillion dollars How to stop the progression?
Speaker 2: And imagine if you're just going to have a standard task,
Speaker 2: because it's as easy as to swab or blood and
Speaker 2: they say blood tests, you're about forty years away from it.
Speaker 2: But you need to at Parkinson. So let's take this
Speaker 2: tablet that the good people that this just came up
Speaker 2: with it to the great financial glee, but but but
Speaker 2: certainly to also to the benefit of mankind.
Speaker 1: So instead of treating it, it's preventing it. By diagnosing it,
Speaker 1: even way way before you become symptomatic, you're preventing it.
Speaker 3: Tell me if I have this right. But you know
Speaker 3: when Michael seeing is doctor doctor Brestman is amazing doctor
Speaker 3: at Mount Sinai incredible that this thing where she's having
Speaker 3: him open and close his fingers, this is what someone
Speaker 3: told me that that that thing is what doctors.
Speaker 1: Have done for years, where you basically do that.
Speaker 3: Because they have no other way of really seeing what
Speaker 3: the parkins. And finally, this breakthrough is they can say
Speaker 3: you have it with a test, and that, like Michael says,
Speaker 3: opens up all this doors for more testing, for more tracking,
Speaker 3: for more treatment.
Speaker 1: Yes, is that right?
Speaker 4: It's huge? Yeah, exactly right. It's a huge game changer.
Speaker 4: It's massive.
Speaker 2: We have this one benefactor who's give us gigantic, gigantic
Speaker 2: sos of money. And he when he first gave us
Speaker 2: the money, I had a conversation with him, very differential
Speaker 2: and very grateful, but I said, please tell me that
Speaker 2: you might give me all this money, you come in
Speaker 2: and run your agenda. He had to run our agenda,
Speaker 2: he said. He said, no one else is going to
Speaker 2: do it but you guys, And he gave us the money.
Speaker 1: He just more I can step back and said, please
Speaker 1: do this important work. I mean, science moves so painfully slow.
Speaker 1: Because I think about this took over nine years. As
Speaker 1: you said, you had to find patients to do spinal
Speaker 1: taps who didn't have Parkinson's. You had to I mean, I.
Speaker 4: Think I really intendivize them and get me out of
Speaker 4: their office. But we got it done, cure them quickly.
Speaker 2: We got to get.
Speaker 4: Going back to Canada.
Speaker 1: Well it's very exciting, but how far are we, Michael,
Speaker 1: now that this breakthrough has happened, is it up to
Speaker 1: the drug companies to figure out how to identify this
Speaker 1: protein and how to figure out how to what to
Speaker 1: do with it? And when you think about the future,
Speaker 1: how long will that be you think?
Speaker 4: I think realistically at twenty years. Stick to this point,
Speaker 4: I think that five or ten two or its marketable, viable.
Speaker 1: And what's so exciting too, is you know, I've done
Speaker 1: a lot of work in ALS as well. I had
Speaker 1: a friend who died of ALS. I have a friend
Speaker 1: who's dealing with ALS right now. And all these neuro
Speaker 1: degenerative diseases are connected ALS, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Huntington's, and so
Speaker 1: unlocking some of these mysteries will have such a huge
Speaker 1: impact on all of these diseases.
Speaker 4: My favorite phrase is a rising tigless about and there
Speaker 4: there'll be a lot of boats.
Speaker 1: Slowly, which is so exciting.
Speaker 4: They laid it out for me and they said, this
Speaker 4: is what we're looking for, and it was so preposterous.
Speaker 2: I said, the amount of people you got to have
Speaker 2: to do this, It just did, you know, authentically get
Speaker 2: people in the world they care about Parkinson's.
Speaker 4: It's a lot of people.
Speaker 2: And I just leaned across the table to remember and
Speaker 2: they said, he's not us who And that's really what's
Speaker 2: few of us?
Speaker 1: Well, thank god you did the simple way of putting
Speaker 1: it is. It's a huge break through. Well, I want
Speaker 1: to say that Michael J. Fox Foundation, as you found out,
Speaker 1: Davis is just incredible and I've been a proud supporter
Speaker 1: of it in honor of my dad, but also in
Speaker 1: honor of Michael, because he's one of my personal heroes
Speaker 1: and the fact that you know, he's very humble and modest.
Speaker 1: But people have contributed two billion dollars to Parkinson's research
Speaker 1: because of this guy, and because of my dad, and
Speaker 1: because of their uncles and brothers and sisters and all
Speaker 1: kinds of personal connections as well. But he has become
Speaker 1: such a leader in this field.
Speaker 2: It's a zoo ras and out side of my family,
Speaker 2: it is a best sator. I say when I'm my
Speaker 2: corny things, it's a gift. It's a gift that keeps
Speaker 2: on taking.
Speaker 1: But it's a gift. It's a gift that keeps on
Speaker 1: taking and a gift that keeps on giving. Right. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: I'm so happy that you all came in. Thank you Davis.
Speaker 1: It's great to see you again. Michael. I mean, I
Speaker 1: just want to I want to take you home, But
Speaker 1: I don't think Tracy would love like you.
Speaker 4: Haven't.
Speaker 1: Hey, come on, that's gonna die. That was between us, Bonnie, right,
Speaker 1: let to die about anyway? This was great. Is there
Speaker 1: anything that you feel like you wanted to talk about that,
Speaker 1: I didn't bring up.
Speaker 4: I wanted to thank him.
Speaker 1: Go ahead for.
Speaker 4: Putting this in my life right now.
Speaker 2: It's a great way to express myself and tell my
Speaker 2: story and tell other people's story. And you're freaking gifted.
Speaker 2: You just you an eye and a heart and mine
Speaker 2: and I am passion and empathy that just is present
Speaker 2: only in the best artists, and you're wanted them.
Speaker 4: You're one of the best artists.
Speaker 2: I thank you.
Speaker 3: That's fun, great, just a wonderful three years of my life.
Speaker 3: Thanks for Katie, This is really fun, of.
Speaker 1: Course, thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question
Speaker 1: for me, or want to share your thoughts about how
Speaker 1: you navigate this crazy world reach out. You can leave
Speaker 1: a short message at six h nine five P one
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Speaker 1: Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Kuric Media.
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