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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric, and this is next question.

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Speaker 1: So I have a confession to make. I love Michael J.

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Speaker 1: Fox and I love Tracy Pollin. I have known this

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Speaker 1: couple for several years now. I've interviewed Michael many times

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Speaker 1: through the years, and I have to admit both of

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Speaker 1: them are my personal heroes. But when I saw Still,

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Speaker 1: the newly released documentary that chronicles his life, I felt

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Speaker 1: like I got to know Michael in a whole new way.

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Speaker 1: The film is part eighties movie featuring Michael as the

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Speaker 1: unlikely hero and is charming, supercharged, always on the move way,

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Speaker 1: but it's also such a deeply, profoundly personal story because

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Speaker 1: it features Michael as another kind of unlikely hero, as

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Speaker 1: someone who's fighting a battle every second of every day

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Speaker 1: with Parkinson's disease.

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Speaker 2: It seem to a dance you do in this this

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Speaker 2: thing that I'm doing that I'm playing with his pill.

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Speaker 2: I'm moving this same movement. I said, I'm finding ways

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Speaker 2: to negotiate with this thing that's with me all the time,

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Speaker 2: and so I'm having a conversation with you, but I'm

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Speaker 2: also having this this WCO Roman wrestling match with his

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Speaker 2: monster is my Brain.

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Speaker 1: Academy Award winning filmmaker Davis Guggenheim, who I also admire

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Speaker 1: a ton, spent three years making this documentary, capturing Michael's struggles,

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Speaker 1: but also getting up close and personal with what motivates Michael,

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Speaker 1: and that is a deep connection to his family, a

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Speaker 1: gigantic heart, and the knowledge that he is encouraging so

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Speaker 1: many other people dealing with Parkinson's.

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Speaker 3: He's actually the sweetest guy, the most wonderful guy I've

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Speaker 3: ever worked with.

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Speaker 1: On today's episode of Next Question, you'll hear how the

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Speaker 1: filmmaker and the subject of Still came together to create

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Speaker 1: an unforgettable portrait of a dear friend and an incredibly

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Speaker 1: courageous man who has so much to teach us about

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Speaker 1: what it means to live and appreciate every single day.

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Speaker 1: I'll yeah, is it okay, okay, good?

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Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 1: First of all, Hi guys, I'm so happy to see

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Speaker 1: you both. Davis. It's been a long time, Mike, less long,

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Speaker 1: but always love being with you. I finished watching the

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Speaker 1: documentary and I have one word for both of you,

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Speaker 1: which is wow. I loved it. I thought, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I love Michael, so I was predisposed, but there's so much.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk to you all about and I

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Speaker 1: guess the first question is is for Mike, why now?

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Speaker 1: Why did you want to do this documentary? Now becos?

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Speaker 4: He asked me.

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Speaker 2: I think really I was just hanging out, not doing anything,

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Speaker 2: and kind of like the air was ripe with the

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Speaker 2: opportunity united and what the opportunity was to do something

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Speaker 2: interesting and and Davis called me, and I think I

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Speaker 2: said some things that he liked, which, as I said,

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Speaker 2: if we do this, I'm not interested in editing you.

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Speaker 4: I'm not interested in making a.

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Speaker 2: Movie about how I got you to make a movie

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Speaker 2: I want to make Yeah, I want you really just

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Speaker 2: so you are at it and so it happens. And

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Speaker 2: as far as why now, the more complicated answer, which

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Speaker 2: is that I broke my hand.

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Speaker 4: Can't play histar anymore, my handshakes.

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Speaker 2: I can't draw anymore. I can't paign anymore. I can't

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Speaker 2: I can't all this stuff. I can't do that I

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Speaker 2: ever could, but things I enjoyed and things that gave

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Speaker 2: me peace, and he gave me a sense of doing

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Speaker 2: doing something and now and my life has become my clay.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, throw it back, were going to

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Speaker 2: make something else of it, and that's what this is.

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Speaker 1: It really was an opportunity for you to be creative

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Speaker 1: in another way and to look back on your life.

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Speaker 1: And Davis, before I talk to you about the really

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Speaker 1: unique way that you made this film, which is a

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Speaker 1: visual amalgamation and audio amalgamation of Michael's life, why did

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Speaker 1: you decide you wanted to do a documentary about Michael J. Fox.

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Speaker 3: I was on Martha's vineyard during COVID and feeling pretty low,

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Speaker 3: feeling in a personal rut and a professional rut, and

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Speaker 3: feeling like I just made the same movie over and

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Speaker 3: over again.

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Speaker 2: And I was.

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Speaker 3: Looking not just for a movie, but just for some lifeline.

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Speaker 3: And I started reading his book No Time Like the Future,

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Speaker 3: and there was wisdom in it for me in an

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Speaker 3: unexpected place. I didn't think I was going to find

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Speaker 3: wisdom from a.

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Speaker 1: Movie, he says dismissively. He's written four books. Did you

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Speaker 1: read all four of them? Davis? Ultimately, Yeah, the.

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Speaker 3: Deep dive into all his stuff and it's easy to

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Speaker 3: sort of say, oh, that's a that's a famous person

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Speaker 3: just writing something. First of all, he's a great writer.

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Speaker 3: There's a great storytelling in it, and there's humor and

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Speaker 3: wisdom in it that I personally needed.

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Speaker 1: So you decided to tackle this project, and you had

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Speaker 1: some challenges because there was limited footage of Mike as

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Speaker 1: a little boy. Although God blessed those class photos. They

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Speaker 1: killed me. Honestly, they are priceless. I'm so glad you

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Speaker 1: kept those. So there were some things from Michael's childhood.

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Speaker 1: But there were also limitations in terms of how you

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Speaker 1: got the visual vocabulary to tell Michael's story. So put

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Speaker 1: together the pieces of the puzzle, because I know it

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Speaker 1: was sort of a conversation between you and your editor

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Speaker 1: and you were trying to figure out, like, how do

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Speaker 1: we tell this story?

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Speaker 3: Right? So with the glue of all this is Michael's

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Speaker 3: great writing and his voice carries the movie. But then

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Speaker 3: there's part, like you say, they're parts of his life

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Speaker 3: that were there weren't cameras, and so my my solution

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Speaker 3: was re enactments. But Michael Hart, this brilliant editor from

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Speaker 3: Donegal Ireland, Michael Fox's clapping right now quietly and and

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Speaker 3: and his solution was to use some of Michael J.

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Speaker 3: Fox's movies.

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Speaker 1: It was brilliant.

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Speaker 3: I'm not period in ways that I would never have.

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Speaker 1: Imagined, right, So you give me an example when.

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Speaker 2: I was falling a little Tracy, I was so in

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Speaker 2: love with the schirl and we were seeing other people

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Speaker 2: in it. She just only did the show for short

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Speaker 2: any time, so I thought, he's just gonna go away?

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Speaker 4: Person, Am I just going to see you anymore?

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Speaker 2: And and a great moment our car is really a

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Speaker 2: nice metaphor when when she was leaving the show for

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Speaker 2: the last time and Mike car was parked next to

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Speaker 2: her car at parking lot, her rental rabbit in my Ferrari.

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Speaker 1: That yeah, I mean, doesn't that say it all?

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Speaker 2: By the way, Mike, Oh my Ferrari, you get in

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Speaker 2: my Ferrari to get into a rabbit to talk about

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Speaker 2: about and I guess she's really worried about me. He's

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Speaker 2: just girl, I'm only in love with this one and

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Speaker 2: see her again she thinks I'm gonna die in partying

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Speaker 2: to her and a you have the job, bab having

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Speaker 2: lunch and she we got married two years later. So

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Speaker 2: so it was this amazing moment. We shot the big

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Speaker 2: scene down in a Grance village walking through the streets

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Speaker 2: and the characters.

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Speaker 1: Falling in love from bright lights, big city, big.

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Speaker 4: City and I was the person who was living in

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Speaker 4: that and I felt the.

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Speaker 3: Same, but on a date in the movie, but they're

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Speaker 3: also dating and lit by Gordon Willis, the guy who

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Speaker 3: shot The Godfather. So it's like beautiful, beautiful there in silhouette,

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Speaker 3: and her first line is I was looking at the

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Speaker 3: other night. She goes, I guess I'm supposed to be

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Speaker 3: impressed by your big, fancy job, which is true for

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Speaker 3: the characters in that movie, but it was also true

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Speaker 3: in their life. He had just done back to the

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Speaker 3: future and he's he's she's still not impressed.

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Speaker 1: But that's but it's true in so many cases. You've

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Speaker 1: found a place for art imitating life and it really

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Speaker 1: works so well. I was curious where this came from

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Speaker 1: the beginning of the film, Michael wakes up and he

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Speaker 1: notices his his pinkiest fluttering. I think you showed Michael

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Speaker 1: in bed, so you you intercut a reenactment. Tell me

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Speaker 1: about that scene and why you chose to start with that.

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Speaker 3: Why do we start there? It cuts to Michael present

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Speaker 3: time in bed as well, right, and this is great line,

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Speaker 3: which is, uh, he's about what pinky is, and it's

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Speaker 3: like this, this is a message from the future, right,

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Speaker 3: which is obviously incredible reference to Back to the Future,

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Speaker 3: but also gave me this incredible optunity to jump forward

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Speaker 3: in time to Michael.

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Speaker 2: Now and double time.

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Speaker 1: There really are And obviously the title of the film

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Speaker 1: is still, but you use that in contrast with Michael,

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Speaker 1: who was for so long just and still is in

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Speaker 1: constant motion, right, you know. And you you allude to

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Speaker 1: that Michael towards the end about sort of always moving,

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Speaker 1: always moving, And it's amazing how many of those shots

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Speaker 1: that you all found beautifully illustrated sort of the frenetic

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Speaker 1: energy of Michael.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a feeling that and this is in your

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Speaker 3: book because all these go back to Michael's writing. But

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Speaker 3: for a long time, you're running towards something, which is

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Speaker 3: what what you said, that would be the destiny, future, future, fame, Hollywood,

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Speaker 3: you know. And then of course he's running away from

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Speaker 3: Parkinson's always running, always running, always running.

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Speaker 4: The biggest thing was me watching movies. You sucked me in.

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Speaker 4: I felt I was watching a movie and like, even

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Speaker 4: though it was about me, I just.

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Speaker 1: When you saw all those scenes, did you feel like

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Speaker 1: you were watching your life flash before your eyes in

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Speaker 1: a way.

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Speaker 4: Very much, very much. It was amazing.

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Speaker 2: We all have this fantasy where someone takes your life

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Speaker 2: and goes, this is it. You look at some total

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Speaker 2: of what you've done and what you've accomplished, what you

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Speaker 2: haven't accomplished, who you love, who loves you, and it

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Speaker 2: was all there. I had this gift, he and me,

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Speaker 2: this is really amazing, and I guess I am who

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Speaker 2: I thought I was, which kind of nice.

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Speaker 1: When we come back, you'll hear what really happened when

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Speaker 1: Michael was told off by his now wife Tracy on

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Speaker 1: the day they met. We're back with Michael J. Fox

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Speaker 1: and Davis Guggenheim.

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Speaker 3: Can I ask that question, Katie, because yeah, you make

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Speaker 3: your film, it's over, and then you have a new question.

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Speaker 3: And I don't think I ever asked this, but because

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Speaker 3: now I see Michael as this incredible role model, he's

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Speaker 3: become the spectacular human. Did you have any intention of

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Speaker 3: being this person? Now?

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Speaker 2: No, I just wanted to drag all the beard and

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Speaker 2: going to their girlfriends.

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Speaker 3: It's always said, you know, in in forty years, you're

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Speaker 3: going to be this guy who starts a foundation.

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Speaker 4: In this That's that's that's weird.

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Speaker 3: That's weird.

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Speaker 4: I'm telling you what you know because you did it.

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Speaker 4: But but this is moving towards.

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Speaker 2: Something and moving away from something, moving towards the signing

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Speaker 2: of his kid is gonna leave Canada?

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Speaker 4: Who does that?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: You don't move from Canada to California at seventeen is preposterous.

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Speaker 1: I thought one of the great things about the film

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Speaker 1: was I didn't realize how hard it was when you

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Speaker 1: first got to La I got you illustrated that really well.

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Speaker 1: You know when when Michael had to sell his sectional couch,

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Speaker 1: you know, bit by bit, how you know you were

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Speaker 1: living on McDonald's and you were eating I think you

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Speaker 1: said you would get those little jam or jelly packets

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Speaker 1: and eat those. I mean, yeah, yeah, I mean talk

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Speaker 1: about like a starving artist. But that was really fun

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Speaker 1: to watch those family ties moments, and particularly because Gary

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Speaker 1: David Goldberg did not want him. I remember reading about

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Speaker 1: this in any way, shape or form. He didn't want you,

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Speaker 1: Brandon Tartakoff didn't want you. Said you were never going

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Speaker 1: to be on the front of a lunch box, and

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Speaker 1: you send him a lunchbox with something like here I

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Speaker 1: am love Michael or whatever you're crowing. Oh yeah, oh

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Speaker 1: this is this is to put your crow in. Well,

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Speaker 1: you were kind of a dick a little bit, you know,

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Speaker 1: doing family ties. You got, as my mom would say,

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Speaker 1: a little big for your breeches, and you would admit that.

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Speaker 4: And that footage.

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Speaker 1: Very demanded shot and you could even tell that Justin

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Speaker 1: Bateman was like rolling her eyes, like this guy is

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Speaker 1: so annoying and obnoxious, right, and yeah, no, I saw

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Speaker 1: how many shots and I saw it? Yeah, exactly, and

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Speaker 1: she's rolling her eyes. So you were being kind of

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Speaker 1: a tool and and got a little full of yourself.

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Speaker 1: And you talk about a scene you were in with

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Speaker 1: Tracy Coolin, who is also a friend who I adore,

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Speaker 1: and she had garlic breath, and you made some joke

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Speaker 1: about how was that trump scampy, a.

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Speaker 3: Little scampy for lunch, babe scampy when the documentarian has

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Speaker 3: to do the one liner, you're in trouble.

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Speaker 4: The baby.

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Speaker 1: Tracy looked you in the eye and said that was

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Speaker 1: really mean, that was cruel and you were.

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Speaker 4: A complete fucking asshole.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that really since you were the golden boy.

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Speaker 1: In fact, you saying the documentary nobody had really ever

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Speaker 1: talked to me like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, got a little chubby got a little chubby in

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Speaker 2: that moment, little turned on by how cool she was was.

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Speaker 1: Oh, you got a little chubby. Sorry, I didn't know

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Speaker 1: what you were talking about. That took me a few minutes. Okay,

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Speaker 1: well thanks for that. So but I was going to

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Speaker 1: ask you, is that one of many things that attracted

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Speaker 1: you to her that she just like was direct and

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Speaker 1: told you exactly what you needed to hear it that time.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, she's brilliant that way. She just can see things clearly.

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Speaker 2: And this is a really difficult time for her right

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Speaker 2: now with me getting all this attention for this film,

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Speaker 2: because because she's not me, she's her and like to

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Speaker 2: this day, I mean that, I love that. It makes

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Speaker 2: me full of love for her. I just think, yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 2: she hadn't have partisans.

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Speaker 4: I have partisans.

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Speaker 2: She has experienced it every day and she has to

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Speaker 2: and I have to make sure I find the room

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Speaker 2: for her to be her separate from this. And that

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Speaker 2: was kind of like what you were saying that the

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Speaker 2: first thing I was saying, I'm not here to play

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Speaker 2: your game and I don't have.

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Speaker 1: To put up with your being a jerk. I'll just

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Speaker 1: scrap Davis. I'm just curious as an outsider, as a filmmaker,

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Speaker 1: someone who has spent time with both of them now

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Speaker 1: a lot of time, what have you observed about their relationship,

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Speaker 1: because they are just quite remarkable.

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Speaker 3: I agree, And one thing they share is devotion to family.

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Speaker 3: Michael is a complete open book and making this movie,

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Speaker 3: but both Tracy and Michael were protective of their family.

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Speaker 3: It's like, not just to keep them off camera, but

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Speaker 3: just to they have their own lives. I'm not I

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Speaker 3: don't speak for you, guys, but that's what Tracy and Hey,

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Speaker 3: this film shouldn't even remotely detract from what they're doing.

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Speaker 3: What they're doing in their own lives is more important

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Speaker 3: that devotion to family. I think is is really really beautiful.

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Speaker 1: But let's let's talk kids.

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Speaker 2: Up.

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Speaker 4: People said, said ask about Parkinsons.

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Speaker 2: They would not they didn't get it, they wouldn't get

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Speaker 2: the connection, they wouldn't like it was never a big

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Speaker 2: part of our lives. Are my fame with a big

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Speaker 2: part of their lives their own lives are really interesting

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Speaker 2: people for sweet people, the very kind.

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Speaker 1: People, very unpretentious and they're not of themselves. They never

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Speaker 1: right on your celebrity or trac and it's amazing that

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Speaker 1: all of your kids turned out to be such normal, good, hardworking,

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Speaker 1: kind people. There's so many great stories and obviously the

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Speaker 1: foundation of the documentary is Michael talking. And how many

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Speaker 1: days did you spend doing those interviews?

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Speaker 3: I almost didn't do them at all. So my first

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Speaker 3: idea was no interviews. I wanted just to make a

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Speaker 3: movie where you get lost in the footage.

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Speaker 1: Uh huh.

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Speaker 3: What I pitched to Apple was I wanted to make

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Speaker 3: a documentary that felt like an eighties movie. And then

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Speaker 3: I did this commercial. This dpiece showed me the shot

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Speaker 3: where the camera's right here and Michael and I are

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Speaker 3: like look at each other, like really really close. Usually,

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Speaker 3: you know, sometimes you're ten feet away, right, and there's

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Speaker 3: lots of people and a guy geting a sandwich, and

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Speaker 3: you know, and this one angle, Michael could look me

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Speaker 3: in the eye, but it looks like he's looking into

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Speaker 3: the camera, right. I said, that's I'm going to try that.

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Speaker 3: And we went to your office on Fifth Avenue and

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Speaker 3: we did that one interview and it was just electric.

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Speaker 3: Like you see in the movie. He's just so winning,

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Speaker 3: he's so charismatic, he's so funny, so.

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Speaker 1: Intimate and so honest and so so.

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Speaker 3: Really honest, and I go, wow, this is the core

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Speaker 3: of the movie. And so that one setup we did

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Speaker 3: six days over a year.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 3: So the last thing we shot was that last one

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Speaker 3: with your last therapy session with Ryan.

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Speaker 1: The process of even doing that interview was probably pretty

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Speaker 1: tiring for Michael.

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Speaker 3: A lot happened in that year we're shooting. It was

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Speaker 3: you call it, we tell your doctor. It was a

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Speaker 3: festival self abuse.

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Speaker 4: I kept breaking him in.

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Speaker 1: You broke your hand.

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Speaker 4: I broke both arms. I broke my shoulder, hit my

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Speaker 4: shoulder replaced. I brought my face. I broke my elbow

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Speaker 4: and it was really painful. It was in the hospital.

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Speaker 4: I'm down for a good time.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to be a jerk anybody, but it's constantly, constantly,

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Speaker 2: I always say, what do you think I'm doing?

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Speaker 4: And doing something else, and it's just the fact of

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Speaker 4: your life.

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Speaker 2: Everything that I do, Like the movie, everything happens in

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Speaker 2: the context of Negoshi with this thing.

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Speaker 1: You know, I want to talk about three moments in

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Speaker 1: the movie that really affected me. So you were diagnosed

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Speaker 1: at twenty nine and nineteen ninety one, is that right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And then you told the world you had it ninety

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Speaker 1: eight and you're dealing with so much and then you're

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Speaker 1: dealing with having to keep this a secret. And I

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Speaker 1: was curious, looking back on it, now, do you have

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Speaker 1: any regrets about not telling the world? Was you were

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Speaker 1: really afraid? And you talk about this in the film

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Speaker 1: if people would accept you, if they would find you funny,

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Speaker 1: you know what the reaction would be. But at the

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Speaker 1: same time, harboring this secret must have been so much

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Speaker 1: pressure on you as well.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was. It was hard.

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Speaker 2: I'm Tracy was amazing during that time, and she got

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Speaker 2: me too, like like I had to figure out how

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Speaker 2: to keep a secret and I quit drinking, So that

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Speaker 2: was that was interesting. And then and then I was

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Speaker 2: I was she was dangerous losing my marriage and losing

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Speaker 2: my family. One of the things really affected me in

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Speaker 2: a great way and paid off downline was when I

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Speaker 2: said I had Parkinson's and all this fuss happened on

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Speaker 2: tabloids and stuff, and I got these chat rooms with.

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Speaker 4: The Parkinson's patients who didn't know it was me, and I.

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Speaker 2: Talked to him and said, what about this Michael fun

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Speaker 2: And they said, I love that he had Parkinson's. And

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Speaker 2: when I got over the shock these people celebrating the

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Speaker 2: fact that I had parties.

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Speaker 4: So I got it.

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Speaker 2: I went, I get it, and then my goal began

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Speaker 2: to get to the point where eventually got to I

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Speaker 2: could step into that and saying here's what I can't do,

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Speaker 2: here's what I can't do, let's talk about it.

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Speaker 1: So that's when you started the fat Foundation. You know,

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Speaker 1: I did have to laugh when you used that sort

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Speaker 1: of cloying Barbara Walters interview, May She Rest in Peace?

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Speaker 1: That was sort of unctuous and inappropriate. What did she say, Davis.

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Speaker 3: You're in the fight for your life.

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Speaker 1: It's almost the way she said it more than her words, right,

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Speaker 1: because you were afraid that audiences would treat you differently.

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Speaker 1: And I love the line when Michael said, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: what have I done, because he was now being subjected

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Speaker 1: to that kind of maudlin pitying kind of interaction, and

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Speaker 1: you were like, holy shit, was it better when I

387
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Speaker 1: kept it a secret just for that nanosecond. The other

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Speaker 1: moment that I was very taken by was when you

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Speaker 1: were with your physical therapist. You said something along the

390
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Speaker 1: lines Michael, of people are looking to me, they're looking

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Speaker 1: to me fighting this disease, and I can't let them down.

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Speaker 1: Your physical therapist said, you know, you don't always have

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Speaker 1: to be Michael J. Fox, And it made me think

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Speaker 1: what a huge responsibility and how unfair in many ways

395
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Speaker 1: that was to you. And I wondered, Gosh, does Mike

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Speaker 1: ever think I don't want to be the goddamn poster

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Speaker 1: child for Parkinson's disease. I wondered about that, because you've

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Speaker 1: got so much you're dealing with already, as you said,

399
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Speaker 1: simultaneously navigating what's happening in your brain every moment while

400
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Speaker 1: trying to carry on a conversation while trying to walk

401
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Speaker 1: down the street in New York City and trying not

402
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Speaker 1: to fall. And then I'm like, this guy feels like

403
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Speaker 1: he can't let people down.

404
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Speaker 4: It's a schnauz around your pant leg.

405
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Speaker 2: But no I think about that is that I'm fool

406
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Speaker 2: enough and ready enough to take that and and and

407
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Speaker 2: to move forward with it. And if it's a role

408
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Speaker 2: for me to play, I'll play because God damn, and

409
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Speaker 2: know all that's been said and done, I'm gonna lucky him.

410
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Speaker 4: I'm like, I just keeps from Canada. I have his

411
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Speaker 4: beautiful wife, these great kids.

412
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Speaker 2: I'm a multimillionaire, I've got I got like this life

413
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Speaker 2: I've lived that should yes for me to step up

414
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Speaker 2: and do something. And and and so I started a

415
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 2: great privilege, great great opportunity, and and and I just

416
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,159
Speaker 2: menasgued to running to great people along the way, and

417
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Speaker 2: and just just focus on what we needed to do.

418
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Speaker 2: And I guess the answer all your questions is just

419
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Speaker 2: not personal. It's not personal circumstance. It's a circus of circumstance.

420
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Speaker 2: And I just walk in the line, and I thought,

421
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Speaker 2: you know, there's something I can do here. And what

422
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 2: I could do was I could rally people. And I

423
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 2: don't take credit for I've done. I'm glad that I'm

424
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Speaker 2: part of a group of people that get this done.

425
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Speaker 2: Where I will take credit for, or I'm proud of

426
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Speaker 2: at least is there's a woman that's going to the grocery.

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Speaker 4: Store right now.

428
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Speaker 2: Twenty years I wouldn't have done a grocery store, wouldn't

429
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Speaker 2: fumble with the change first, wouldn't have risk the guy

430
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Speaker 2: in the part of I think she was drunk, but

431
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Speaker 2: she got into your car.

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Speaker 4: It was a horrible life.

433
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Speaker 2: And now, perhaps because of me, to a certain extent

434
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 2: she could say, yeah, person like Michael Fox, But.

435
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Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you. I mentioned three parts of

436
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Speaker 1: the doc that really affected me, and one is when

437
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Speaker 1: you're talking to Michael and one of the interviews over

438
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Speaker 1: those six days. During one of those interviews, there's a

439
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Speaker 1: point in the film where you guys deal with what

440
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 1: you call shitty stuff, and Davis, you imply that Michael

441
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: darts away when you ask him how he feels and

442
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 1: you talk to him about are you in pain?

443
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 3: So the film was finished. I mean I had a

444
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 3: version of the film that you could show someone and

445
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 3: it worked. It was great. But I remember watching it

446
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 3: with the editor, Michael Hart, and I go, just there's

447
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 3: something missing here because with all of Michael's optimism and

448
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 3: with all his insistence not to be pitied, which is

449
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 3: an important thing for me too, not to do that,

450
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 3: I realized that he didn't actually tell us the full

451
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 3: story of the year he's been through, and that he

452
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 3: wasn't pain. And of course the way you say it's

453
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 3: pretty funny, but it's like it's like it never came up.

454
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 3: I said, talked to you for hours and hours and hours,

455
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,679
Speaker 3: you never talked about your pain. The first thing you

456
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 3: say is I'm in a tremendous amount of pain. And

457
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 3: I was actually really shocking when you said it to me,

458
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 3: because I was like, oh, like, you're really good at

459
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 3: hiding it. You really not only do not talk about it,

460
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 3: but you don't exhibit it, you know. And it's it's

461
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 3: a flip side of this optimism, right, And he just goes, well,

462
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 3: I'm not going to lead with it.

463
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: Are there moments, Michael when you're not not so brave?

464
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 2: I'm brave as brave as I hear we're brave and

465
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 2: courage And I had no choice. I No, I mean like, like, okay,

466
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 2: let's be brave. So I guess the fall back is

467
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 2: I'm brave?

468
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 1: Well, I guess. I mean, do you ever allow yourself

469
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 1: to be furious? You know, to rage?

470
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 2: Wage away?

471
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 4: I used to rage when I was younger. I like

472
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 4: when Tracey talks about I say, what was it?

473
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 3: Tack?

474
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 4: Because I can see the pain in her face. I

475
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 4: can I can see how hard that was. AH like rage.

476
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 2: I don't feel rage now. I think the thing that

477
00:26:55,040 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 2: I feel now that that is not pleasant is I

478
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 2: haven't got a trick for it. There's no easy answer. No,

479
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:08,919
Speaker 2: I can't I can't content.

480
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 4: I can't charm it. I can't I can't bush it

481
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 4: into the cornfield. You know, it's just it's just there.

482
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 4: I think a word.

483
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,479
Speaker 2: I'm cops a certain amount of wisdom, hard and wisdom,

484
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 2: and I want to look at something and say, Okay,

485
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 2: I can look at this this way ten times and

486
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 2: never get anywhere and get pissed off and get frustrated,

487
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 2: or I can just go yeah, move on.

488
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,959
Speaker 1: It's more like, uh, acceptance, acceptance.

489
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 4: Acceptance is huge. Acceptance and gratitude. Well, everything I've ever

490
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 4: written is one one that I kind of go, well,

491
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 4: that's good.

492
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 2: If that's that's my one one one that I write

493
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 2: in my life, I'm happy with that, which is with gratitude,

494
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 2: optimism and sustainable. If I can, I I'm something to

495
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 2: be grateful and every day I can win that day.

496
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 1: That's great advice for everyone, honestly and so true. Up next,

497
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: how Michael's Foundation helped bring a game changing breakthrough in

498
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: Parkinson's research. If you want to get smarter every morning

499
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: with a breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on

500
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: health and wellness and pop culture, sign up for our

501
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,360
Speaker 1: daily newsletter Wake Upcall by going to Katiecuric dot com.

502
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: We're back with Michael and Davis. Although Parkinson's disease is

503
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 1: the second most common neurodegenerative disorder in the US after Alzheimer's,

504
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: the only course of action for patients is to treat

505
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: their symptoms, and unfortunately, by the time those symptoms are visible,

506
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: the disease is already well underway. That's why a major

507
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: goal for researchers has been to diagnose Parkinson's earlier and

508
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 1: develop interventions to slow it down or stop it altogether. Now,

509
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: the results of a major news study are in and

510
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: with monumental help from the Michael J. Fox Foundation, it

511
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: looks like earlier diagnosis may actually become a reality. The breakthrough,

512
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: announced this month in the journal Lancet Neurology, involves the

513
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: discovery of a biomarker called alpha sinnucleon. I talked with

514
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: Michael all about this important step. I wanted to talk

515
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: to you about the research for Parkinson's because you know,

516
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: as somebody who saw my dad's succumbed to the disease

517
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 1: and my dad died in twenty eleven, you were diagnosed

518
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety one. So much money, so much research,

519
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: so many brilliant scientists. Why has it been so so

520
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: hard to come up with better medication to control the

521
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: disease or even god willing a cure.

522
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 2: Talk to me about that diagnosis. You move funny and

523
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 2: you can't keep your hands still or whatever. And so

524
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 2: we run through a series of tests and it kind

525
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 2: of a subjective way till you get part with a

526
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 2: lot of times you're right.

527
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 4: But that's what it is.

528
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 2: We've never had a biological way to say, yes, you

529
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 2: have these markers. So because that takes a lot of work,

530
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 2: because you got to take this common cohort of people

531
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 2: that have similar symptoms and problems and eliminate them. And

532
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 2: that's again that takes billions of dollars. Luckily we came

533
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 2: into billions of dollars. Yeah, and we found a way

534
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 2: to do it.

535
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: And this was like over a thousand patients from.

536
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 2: Right. We needed to get spinal taps, we needed to

537
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 2: get spinal fluid, which is hard to extract, it's very painful.

538
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 2: We get to get people who didn't have Parkers to

539
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 2: do small.

540
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: Tabs wow, which is like that's hard to do.

541
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 4: Let's take a needle in his fine. So but we

542
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 4: found enough people to do it.

543
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 2: We found family members that love their family, love their

544
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 2: their and their uncle, their mom and their dad, and

545
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 2: subjected to themselves to this and that was a key thing.

546
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 2: So when I when I go through, when I thank

547
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 2: people for this, it really it takes a metropolis. It

548
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 2: takes a billion people to get this done. It's huge

549
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 2: what's happened because now we can get to the point

550
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 2: where where a four year old gets a swamp and

551
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 2: we found out they're gonna have Parkinsons in twenty years

552
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 2: and then we give them a pill and send them

553
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 2: on their way.

554
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: And so this was the Parkinson's Progression Markers initiative. Yeah,

555
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: and basically it found.

556
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 4: Out disc everything we could isolate this.

557
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: Protein, isolate a protein that is present in Parkinson's patients.

558
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we can we can find a way to

559
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 2: isolate it and to see it laid bare and say

560
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 2: that's why.

561
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: You have parking And does that mean you could potentially.

562
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 2: The gate's opening and drug companies flooding in because they're

563
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 2: gonna make a billion jillion dollars How to stop the progression?

564
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 2: And imagine if you're just going to have a standard task,

565
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 2: because it's as easy as to swab or blood and

566
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 2: they say blood tests, you're about forty years away from it.

567
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 2: But you need to at Parkinson. So let's take this

568
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 2: tablet that the good people that this just came up

569
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 2: with it to the great financial glee, but but but

570
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 2: certainly to also to the benefit of mankind.

571
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: So instead of treating it, it's preventing it. By diagnosing it,

572
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: even way way before you become symptomatic, you're preventing it.

573
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 3: Tell me if I have this right. But you know

574
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 3: when Michael seeing is doctor doctor Brestman is amazing doctor

575
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 3: at Mount Sinai incredible that this thing where she's having

576
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 3: him open and close his fingers, this is what someone

577
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 3: told me that that that thing is what doctors.

578
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: Have done for years, where you basically do that.

579
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 3: Because they have no other way of really seeing what

580
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 3: the parkins. And finally, this breakthrough is they can say

581
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 3: you have it with a test, and that, like Michael says,

582
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 3: opens up all this doors for more testing, for more tracking,

583
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 3: for more treatment.

584
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: Yes, is that right?

585
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 4: It's huge? Yeah, exactly right. It's a huge game changer.

586
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 4: It's massive.

587
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 2: We have this one benefactor who's give us gigantic, gigantic

588
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 2: sos of money. And he when he first gave us

589
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 2: the money, I had a conversation with him, very differential

590
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 2: and very grateful, but I said, please tell me that

591
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 2: you might give me all this money, you come in

592
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,719
Speaker 2: and run your agenda. He had to run our agenda,

593
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 2: he said. He said, no one else is going to

594
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 2: do it but you guys, And he gave us the money.

595
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: He just more I can step back and said, please

596
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: do this important work. I mean, science moves so painfully slow.

597
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 1: Because I think about this took over nine years. As

598
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: you said, you had to find patients to do spinal

599
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: taps who didn't have Parkinson's. You had to I mean, I.

600
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 4: Think I really intendivize them and get me out of

601
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 4: their office. But we got it done, cure them quickly.

602
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:25,720
Speaker 2: We got to get.

603
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 4: Going back to Canada.

604
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: Well it's very exciting, but how far are we, Michael,

605
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 1: now that this breakthrough has happened, is it up to

606
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: the drug companies to figure out how to identify this

607
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: protein and how to figure out how to what to

608
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: do with it? And when you think about the future,

609
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: how long will that be you think?

610
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 4: I think realistically at twenty years. Stick to this point,

611
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:56,760
Speaker 4: I think that five or ten two or its marketable, viable.

612
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: And what's so exciting too, is you know, I've done

613
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 1: a lot of work in ALS as well. I had

614
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: a friend who died of ALS. I have a friend

615
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: who's dealing with ALS right now. And all these neuro

616
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: degenerative diseases are connected ALS, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Huntington's, and so

617
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: unlocking some of these mysteries will have such a huge

618
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 1: impact on all of these diseases.

619
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 4: My favorite phrase is a rising tigless about and there

620
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 4: there'll be a lot of boats.

621
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: Slowly, which is so exciting.

622
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 4: They laid it out for me and they said, this

623
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 4: is what we're looking for, and it was so preposterous.

624
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 2: I said, the amount of people you got to have

625
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 2: to do this, It just did, you know, authentically get

626
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 2: people in the world they care about Parkinson's.

627
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 4: It's a lot of people.

628
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 2: And I just leaned across the table to remember and

629
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 2: they said, he's not us who And that's really what's

630
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 2: few of us?

631
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 1: Well, thank god you did the simple way of putting

632
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:02,439
Speaker 1: it is. It's a huge break through. Well, I want

633
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 1: to say that Michael J. Fox Foundation, as you found out,

634
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: Davis is just incredible and I've been a proud supporter

635
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: of it in honor of my dad, but also in

636
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: honor of Michael, because he's one of my personal heroes

637
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 1: and the fact that you know, he's very humble and modest.

638
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 1: But people have contributed two billion dollars to Parkinson's research

639
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 1: because of this guy, and because of my dad, and

640
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: because of their uncles and brothers and sisters and all

641
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,280
Speaker 1: kinds of personal connections as well. But he has become

642
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,240
Speaker 1: such a leader in this field.

643
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 2: It's a zoo ras and out side of my family,

644
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 2: it is a best sator. I say when I'm my

645
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 2: corny things, it's a gift. It's a gift that keeps

646
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:52,399
Speaker 2: on taking.

647
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: But it's a gift. It's a gift that keeps on

648
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 1: taking and a gift that keeps on giving. Right. Yeah, Well,

649
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,760
Speaker 1: I'm so happy that you all came in. Thank you Davis.

650
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: It's great to see you again. Michael. I mean, I

651
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: just want to I want to take you home, But

652
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: I don't think Tracy would love like you.

653
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 4: Haven't.

654
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: Hey, come on, that's gonna die. That was between us, Bonnie, right,

655
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 1: let to die about anyway? This was great. Is there

656
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 1: anything that you feel like you wanted to talk about that,

657
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 1: I didn't bring up.

658
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 4: I wanted to thank him.

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Speaker 1: Go ahead for.

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Speaker 4: Putting this in my life right now.

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00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 2: It's a great way to express myself and tell my

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00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 2: story and tell other people's story. And you're freaking gifted.

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00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 2: You just you an eye and a heart and mine

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Speaker 2: and I am passion and empathy that just is present

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Speaker 2: only in the best artists, and you're wanted them.

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Speaker 4: You're one of the best artists.

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Speaker 2: I thank you.

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Speaker 3: That's fun, great, just a wonderful three years of my life.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for Katie, This is really fun, of.

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Speaker 1: Course, thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question

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00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: for me, or want to share your thoughts about how

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00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 1: you navigate this crazy world reach out. You can leave

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Speaker 1: a short message at six h nine five P one

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Speaker 1: two five five five, or you can send me a

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Speaker 1: DM on Instagram. I would love to hear from you.

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Speaker 1: Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Kuric Media.

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Speaker 1: The executive producers are Meek, Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz.

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00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Marcy Thompson. Our producers are Adrianna

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00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 1: Fazzio and Catherine Law. Our audio engineer is Matt Russell,

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00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 1: who also composed our theme music. For more information about

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Speaker 1: today's episode, or to sign up for my newsletter, wake

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00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 1: Up Call, go to the description in the podcast app,

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Speaker 1: or visit us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also

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Speaker 1: find me on Instagram and all my social media channels.

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,