Speaker 1: Of Course Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Hey,
Speaker 1: welcome to Quest Love Supreme. I'm Quest Love and I'm
Speaker 1: really really excited about the next two episodes of q
Speaker 1: l S with our guests Kenneth, baby Face, Emonds. That's right,
Speaker 1: the man. We learned a lot about this man in
Speaker 1: this craft, enough to fill two episodes, So without further delay,
Speaker 1: here is part one. Suprema su Prima roll call, Prima
Speaker 1: Sama roll call, So Prima su Prima, roll call, Sumama
Speaker 1: roll quest Love in the place. Yeah, what y'all want
Speaker 1: to do? Yeah, gotta ask baby Face? Can I get
Speaker 1: the ladies if I say no? Roll call? My name
Speaker 1: is Fante. You here me now. Yeah, that's the end
Speaker 1: of my verse. So I'll take a bow. Some Prima
Speaker 1: roll call, some prima prima roll call. My name is Sugar. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I ain't no dumbing. Yeah, if I could change the world,
Speaker 1: you'd all be dummy. Momma Prima road call skills my
Speaker 1: name doing things, hold my way, yeah, but I just can't.
Speaker 1: Won't stop until I have my own highway roll Prima
Speaker 1: road call. Pretty much some Prema roll called yeah, and
Speaker 1: I'm in this place. Yeah, somebody with me. It's okay
Speaker 1: because his baby face roll some Prima roll call, so
Speaker 1: premo roll my name, my name is face. Y'all in
Speaker 1: my place, up in my space. Yeah, round road roll roll.
Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another edition of Question Love Supreme,
Speaker 1: only on Pandora. This is Quest Love on lead vocals.
Speaker 1: We got uh Fontikolo Jenkins on vocals and saxophone. Got
Speaker 1: Sugar Steve. We got Sugar Steve on percussion, harp and tambourine,
Speaker 1: jazz harp, jazz Hart not Jeeves Hart, dass Hart. Okay,
Speaker 1: just making sure we got Boss Bill on a slide guitar. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Have you got a late lady layah a k Margaret
Speaker 1: on French horn? Nah. Yeah. We're a collective team known
Speaker 1: as Team Supreme. We're kind of the rabbit hole seeking
Speaker 1: uh music, music factory, knowing mused to the stars, unsolicited
Speaker 1: life advice, given music dweebs. You all know and love
Speaker 1: and Uh. Our very special guest today is one of
Speaker 1: the most It's one of the few luminaries UH to
Speaker 1: have co written I'll say the soundtrack of your life.
Speaker 1: Whether you care to admit that or not. That's not
Speaker 1: an exaggeration. Actually said it earlier as I was walking
Speaker 1: through that hallway with all those plaques on the wall,
Speaker 1: with pretty much every record that was released in the
Speaker 1: last thirty years. Wait, I love the fact that, uh
Speaker 1: my baby Daddy's also alright at the end, and there
Speaker 1: was base compilation about that right right, that was on
Speaker 1: the face. Yeah, you see, we already fell into rap alright.
Speaker 1: H Kenneth Baby Faced SEVMN is a one man tim
Speaker 1: pan alley, one man bale building with the song catalog
Speaker 1: to rival all histories Great Slennon McCartney's the Joe Beck Catalog. UM.
Speaker 1: He's either written or core authored or produced hit after
Speaker 1: hit after hit after hit. UM. He was just recently
Speaker 1: inducted into the Illustrious Songwriters Hall of Fame UH this
Speaker 1: year of Our Lord two thousand seventeen UM and Our Guest.
Speaker 1: He's a forty time Grammy Award nominee, three of which
Speaker 1: three of which he was rightfully bestowed the honor of
Speaker 1: Producer of the Year. UH. He last year napped or
Speaker 1: a few years ago Naptier eleventh Grammy for UH for
Speaker 1: the collaborative album with Tony Brixton entitled Love, Marriage and Divorce,
Speaker 1: which sounds like the man exactly. Um. It's incidentally the
Speaker 1: temph album that bears his name as a solo artist.
Speaker 1: And it doesn't stop there. Uh. Two. He entered the
Speaker 1: record books having pinned into the Road by my high
Speaker 1: school band meets Uh Boys Too Men, which literally spent
Speaker 1: the entire summer at number one for thirteen weeks, only
Speaker 1: to have that record broken again with his I'll Make
Speaker 1: Love to You, which remained number one for fourteen weeks,
Speaker 1: dominating the summer of nine. Uh. He's written twenty six
Speaker 1: number one R and B hits, countless top ten pop hits,
Speaker 1: and his top forties are in the hundreds. Uh. There
Speaker 1: is literally no artists that could make a dent uh
Speaker 1: penetrating modern radio in the nineties without this man behind
Speaker 1: the wheel as a songwriter, producer, or label head. UM
Speaker 1: name him Karen White, Whenne Houston, TLC, Eric Clapton, Madonna,
Speaker 1: Mary J. Blise. The list goes on and on. Uh.
Speaker 1: If I were to list his entire resume, the show
Speaker 1: would be over. Lazes and gentlemen, get it up for
Speaker 1: Kenneth baby Face everything, Thank You. I It's like our
Speaker 1: dream man. Yeah, I feel like I've wasted my entire life.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. This is walking through the hall. It's like,
Speaker 1: I feel so small killer. I love how that Jackson's
Speaker 1: photo hits you right when you walk into the door.
Speaker 1: Just it just literally hit you. Thank you. Um. Okay,
Speaker 1: So we have so many questions to ask you. Um.
Speaker 1: And because you have history in in Middle America, in Indiana, uh,
Speaker 1: I will ask you about your beginnings, like where did
Speaker 1: you where did you grow up? Indianapolis, Indiana. Okay, that
Speaker 1: was that's the real Midwest. When Kokomo will my hometown. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Boss Bills from Kokomo. I never knew there was a Cocomo,
Speaker 1: not like yeah, it's a real, real place. Unfortunately, Reading
Speaker 1: Franklin wrote a song about it, too, great song. That's
Speaker 1: how I knew it learned about it was the opposite. Wait,
Speaker 1: there's a song called Kokomo Byta France called Personal in
Speaker 1: Kokomo on a Young Gifted on Black album. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: what was that song about. It's basically just like a
Speaker 1: slice of life. I think she was her husband was
Speaker 1: from uh from Cokemo at the time, so I guess
Speaker 1: they would go back and visit family a lot, and
Speaker 1: so this song is basically a Bob and her sister
Speaker 1: lived there for a while. I didn't know that you
Speaker 1: two might be cousins, might be we all might be cousins. Um,
Speaker 1: So can I can I assume because of a lot
Speaker 1: of studies that I've done, Um on the rise of
Speaker 1: black music in the Midwest, Chicago, Indiana, Ohio? Um that
Speaker 1: your parents migrated to Indiana or were they? Was your
Speaker 1: whole family history there? Or well? Yes, to Kentucky? And
Speaker 1: you know, and then I don't actually might be really
Speaker 1: providence Kentucky far? How far is that from Bowling Green?
Speaker 1: Do you know? I have no idea looking up later?
Speaker 1: All right? Wow, I feel like so okay, So your
Speaker 1: family started in Kentucky. Yeah, and my mom my dad
Speaker 1: came from He was in Kentucky, he was, and he
Speaker 1: ultimately met my mom. He moved. My mom was there
Speaker 1: already in Indianapolis. My grandfather used to have a soul
Speaker 1: food restaurant called Chicken Shack, and and uh, wow, I
Speaker 1: might be the son and my dad met met her
Speaker 1: at the Chicken Shack. And he was much older, he
Speaker 1: was about those seventeen years older. And a soulful story
Speaker 1: of all times, many and he was and he was
Speaker 1: from you know, Providence, Kentucky. And as a kid, he
Speaker 1: got out of there because he was a coal miner.
Speaker 1: And as a kid for about four years he was
Speaker 1: doing from like eleven too, you know, fifteen or so,
Speaker 1: and then got out of there finally and and made
Speaker 1: the Indiana eperson and and did some things. And I
Speaker 1: don't think he sung a little bit. Actually he had
Speaker 1: a really good voice and stuff. But it wasn't like
Speaker 1: we heard music around the house all the time. It
Speaker 1: we just would here records being played. But it was
Speaker 1: just kind of, uh, just one of those things we
Speaker 1: just kind of gravitated to. So you didn't grow up
Speaker 1: in church or church came a little bit later, like
Speaker 1: probably about six seventh grade. My mom, she wasn't in
Speaker 1: church through through all that time. And then then I
Speaker 1: got introduced to church and and and I would I
Speaker 1: used to sit outside the once choir was done, I
Speaker 1: go sit outside so and listen to the radio. So
Speaker 1: I was amazed to see objection well because because I
Speaker 1: sat up in the balcony and she she could see.
Speaker 1: So I snuck out there. Yeah, smart, That's that's how
Speaker 1: I learned about James Taylor. Oh man, because I was
Speaker 1: listening to the AM station because you know, on all
Speaker 1: the black stations were playing church music at that time
Speaker 1: on Sunday. Okay, then I found the pop station that
Speaker 1: played this guy that played acoustic guitar, which was James Taylor,
Speaker 1: which kind of blew me away. So what was the
Speaker 1: do you know the first record that you purchased? That's
Speaker 1: a good question. I didn't purchase it or purchase for you. Um,
Speaker 1: I think this is Jackson five Records, okay, sixth grade?
Speaker 1: What James Taylor song? If you're talking about a specific
Speaker 1: James Taylor, it was I heard like fire and rain
Speaker 1: and um, I think think what was that was firing ring?
Speaker 1: So you came of age once the Jackson's had signed
Speaker 1: the Motown and yeah, okay, did I read an interview
Speaker 1: once where you said you were in the audience when
Speaker 1: they did Going Back to Indiana? Yeah, they were at
Speaker 1: the concert that was in Indianapolis. Yeah, what was that like?
Speaker 1: Because it was I think the audience Mike was louder
Speaker 1: than the Ronnie Rossefor's keyboard and everything, like, you know,
Speaker 1: you heard the audience more like even in the Public
Speaker 1: Enemy sample, the girls screaming like that's what. So what
Speaker 1: was that? Like, I think they recorded it a couple
Speaker 1: of places, but that was the main place that they
Speaker 1: did it. And so I had a terrible seat. I
Speaker 1: was sitting in back, so all I could see was
Speaker 1: the back of their froze every now and if they
Speaker 1: do act, so I could catch a glimpse if they
Speaker 1: did a spin. Other than that, all you could see
Speaker 1: was the back of the heads. And but it was
Speaker 1: I mean, I was like blown away and I think
Speaker 1: I had tears running them, you know, face, because I
Speaker 1: just couldn't believe I was there and they went there.
Speaker 1: They were real because at that particular point, you know,
Speaker 1: you you'd seen them on TV and in those days
Speaker 1: that's the only time you saw anybody. So when they
Speaker 1: came to your town, it was it was amazing. And
Speaker 1: the crowd was like crowd lost. They had to stop
Speaker 1: the show about four times because crowd kept rushing the stage.
Speaker 1: So it was amazing. So just to be their age
Speaker 1: and to see them, like, was that was that a
Speaker 1: turning point for you? Like? Oh it was? It was it?
Speaker 1: That was the point when I knew that that I
Speaker 1: wanted to do that, I want to do something like that.
Speaker 1: I didn't know exactly what, but I knew that was
Speaker 1: I wanted to be in that lane somehow, And I
Speaker 1: also promised myself at that point that I would meet
Speaker 1: them one day. You know, wow, you did more than that?
Speaker 1: How many? How many brothers and sistant? So y'all a
Speaker 1: kound it and a lot of y'all can sing? Right?
Speaker 1: Or is it just a couple Kevan and Melvine they
Speaker 1: could sing and mud because the other ones they couldn't
Speaker 1: say they thought they could, but they couldn't really sing.
Speaker 1: So were you the youngest of your fifth so that
Speaker 1: had one one younger than me? Okay, so so in
Speaker 1: high school? Were you like starting bands by that point?
Speaker 1: And I started first started singing in um sixth grade,
Speaker 1: first picked up the guitar. My brother Melvin brought a
Speaker 1: guitar in the house and told nobody not to touch it,
Speaker 1: and uh, of course, of course you gotta leave the room,
Speaker 1: and uh, and I had to touch it because you know,
Speaker 1: there was this girl I kind of had a crushhall
Speaker 1: Round the new Boot was her name, and I wanted
Speaker 1: to write a song about her. So I grabbed the
Speaker 1: guitar and started learning these chords that Melvin had already played,
Speaker 1: and I wrote a song to those chords that he
Speaker 1: told me I could never play. Do you remember the
Speaker 1: song Here I Go falling in Love? Did you ever recorded?
Speaker 1: I haven't recorded. I know it though, I never have
Speaker 1: you ever thought about recording? It's a simple sprucing up
Speaker 1: and no, it's it's it's a said make it any
Speaker 1: but it was. Yeah, and I do have the original lyrics.
Speaker 1: My mom kept the lyrics that I've written down, so
Speaker 1: I really does Did she ever hear the song? Did
Speaker 1: the girl ever hear it? Nay, it doesn't go like that.
Speaker 1: Did your brother ever find out that? Yeah? He did
Speaker 1: get beat up. Well, he didn't beat me up, but
Speaker 1: that's when he told me. He he came to me
Speaker 1: and said, you know, I don't care how long you try,
Speaker 1: how hard you tried, you will never be as good
Speaker 1: as I am. Whole talente famous last words. Y'all still
Speaker 1: bring that up? No, no point. His name is baby faces,
Speaker 1: bring it up like he's baby. Let's take a picture
Speaker 1: of the hallway and that's it, just right, hashtag hallway Right.
Speaker 1: So you were self taught, like you? Uh? Do you
Speaker 1: have formal lessons in anything? I was self taught because
Speaker 1: it was a I'm left handed and it was a
Speaker 1: right handed guitar, So I had to I had to
Speaker 1: kind of teach myself. I had to just kind of
Speaker 1: and I played, so I played upside down, So I
Speaker 1: can't I couldn't really learn from him other than just
Speaker 1: to watch how he what cores he played and listened
Speaker 1: to it and try to figure it out the other
Speaker 1: way around and so and that's kind of like how
Speaker 1: you end up learning. So when did you officially uh
Speaker 1: start singing? What? I what? I can I assume that
Speaker 1: man child enter the picture earlier? Was this That was
Speaker 1: right out of high school. But there were groups all throughout,
Speaker 1: you know, um, like sixth grade, I had a group
Speaker 1: in my class. We had we sang smooky Robinson song
Speaker 1: Here I Go falling in Love, um, and hence my
Speaker 1: song world I wrote here I hope on similar I
Speaker 1: think spoke he stole it anyway, But so yeah, I
Speaker 1: started kind of started singing there. And and the very
Speaker 1: first time I sang, Melvin had come home and came
Speaker 1: to me and Kevin and said that he had this
Speaker 1: group called the Soul Innovations and they were playing at
Speaker 1: the mixer at our high school and so in Jackson
Speaker 1: five were hot, so he needed one of us to
Speaker 1: sing one of the Jackson five songs. So we had
Speaker 1: a contest with each other, and that year I beat Kevan.
Speaker 1: I could not beat him this year, but so UM
Speaker 1: I ended up singing Who's Loving You at this mixer,
Speaker 1: and uh, that was kind of like the start of it,
Speaker 1: you know. Um. And after after that, then we we
Speaker 1: tried our There was a group called Indie five, not
Speaker 1: Jackson five. I was in the ind five for a
Speaker 1: little bit and then uh in the five broke up.
Speaker 1: And then I probably about eighth grade, I had a
Speaker 1: couple of groups jim Ni eight, UM, LC, Soul Unlimited, UM,
Speaker 1: the Elements. These are all groups in junior high that
Speaker 1: I was in. So I'm assuming that because of I
Speaker 1: guess that I guess the I guess you could say
Speaker 1: that from what I know, uh, in the Midwest, because
Speaker 1: the employment and industry was up in the factories pretty
Speaker 1: much all families bestowed uh their kids with musical instruments
Speaker 1: and that sort of thing of like was there did
Speaker 1: you ever personally witnessed like a decliner fallout like the
Speaker 1: particular industry leave Indiana at that time? And then you
Speaker 1: just saw the decline of interest of music go down,
Speaker 1: or that didn't happen until I think late seventies. UM,
Speaker 1: because prior to that, the thing that that I remember
Speaker 1: the most and I love the most about growing up
Speaker 1: was that used to hear music all around the neighborhood.
Speaker 1: So you could walk around on a summer day and
Speaker 1: just go listening for a band rehearsing somewhere, and that's
Speaker 1: how you found your you know, your group members. Somebody
Speaker 1: was practicing inside of the garage, so you might hear
Speaker 1: a guitar player, bass player, drummer. You walk around the
Speaker 1: neighborhood all day long and hear different bands playing. And
Speaker 1: we used to have rival bands where bands were going
Speaker 1: against each other and stuff, and my my brother's band
Speaker 1: with the Sole Innovations and the Dianasans and they would compare.
Speaker 1: Somebody was singing like James Brown, somebody was more like
Speaker 1: the Temptations. So it was music all around the neighborhood
Speaker 1: and everybody was like trying to make it and um
Speaker 1: and the city was pretty supportive because even when I
Speaker 1: was in ninth grade and with my group the Elements,
Speaker 1: they had a contest for local bands too. The best
Speaker 1: local bands would be able to open up for curs
Speaker 1: Mayfield on his UM super Fly UH tour, and so
Speaker 1: and my group we we actually won and so we
Speaker 1: were one of the openness for the for that show.
Speaker 1: And so it was that musical where there we was.
Speaker 1: There was music and musicians and everybody wanted to play
Speaker 1: play an instrument. And that I think when that started
Speaker 1: to change is when, actually, to be honest, is when
Speaker 1: disco happened all the clubs every but there used to
Speaker 1: be clubs where bands were playing all the time. Then
Speaker 1: when disco started happening, then DJ DJ's kind of like
Speaker 1: came into the uh took the band members away, and
Speaker 1: that's when it started to change. Did it change for you,
Speaker 1: Like did you still feel as though, like, well, I
Speaker 1: still want to be a musician even though yeah, I
Speaker 1: think I was. I don't know that I had ever
Speaker 1: had any choice UH in this It was like something
Speaker 1: that was just part of my DNA to music. Was
Speaker 1: your family your parents supportive or was this like, um,
Speaker 1: get a real job? Where it was it? Well? When
Speaker 1: I was right out of high school, I joined man Shout.
Speaker 1: In seventy six, I joined man Shout, which was I
Speaker 1: was very lucky because I don't know that I even
Speaker 1: thought about college, and and all my friends were they
Speaker 1: had thought about it and they were going away, and
Speaker 1: the next thing I know, maybe I should have to
Speaker 1: talk about college. But then um, I got asked to
Speaker 1: join this group called man Child, and they had immediately
Speaker 1: got a record deal in seventy seven. So I got
Speaker 1: lucky and we had a record deal and put out
Speaker 1: a couple of records and did it was regional hits.
Speaker 1: And but then that only lasted for a little bit,
Speaker 1: and we had a downside. And in that downside, I
Speaker 1: was staying home with my mom. And then one day
Speaker 1: my mom said get in the car and I said, okay,
Speaker 1: She said just get in the car. Get in the car,
Speaker 1: and she drove me in front of this uh um
Speaker 1: story that had a little photo matt the little cubic
Speaker 1: those things where they used to get your films made,
Speaker 1: and so they had to help one it signed there,
Speaker 1: and she said, get one, pick it up, and then
Speaker 1: say get a job, get a job. You're gonna sign,
Speaker 1: You're gonna you're gonna get a job, and you're gonna
Speaker 1: do that. Then I left the house that morning. The
Speaker 1: next morning that's when I'm going to move in with
Speaker 1: a girlfriend. And so did you never have a day
Speaker 1: job like a regular I had. I was a camp counselor.
Speaker 1: That was my only job, like a summer job, playing
Speaker 1: guitar fans kind of stortady. Okay, so you're you're you're
Speaker 1: you're not the plume, your your nickname. Uh I, I've
Speaker 1: heard the legend of Bootsy Collins giving you this title.
Speaker 1: But how exactly did you come into contact with? Um?
Speaker 1: My partner l A Read and and uh and Ko
Speaker 1: one of the bass player in the deal. They were
Speaker 1: actually doing demos with Bootsy when we were in living
Speaker 1: in Cincinnati, and um, we were working on a record
Speaker 1: there and sonaty So who was kind of looked downtime
Speaker 1: and they were boots here called l A. I think
Speaker 1: he already knew him already and asked them to come
Speaker 1: do some tracks. So I just walked in the studio
Speaker 1: one day, not knowing him really, and um, I think
Speaker 1: I met him before and uh and then he uh,
Speaker 1: as soon as I walk in, he just goes baby
Speaker 1: face exactly exactly. And Uh. I didn't like it. I
Speaker 1: didn't like the sound of it. Just just didn't hit
Speaker 1: me right, and then he just started. Then he said
Speaker 1: it again after you knew I didn't like it, and uh,
Speaker 1: and then the guys in the band they kind of
Speaker 1: they kind of stuck with it because everybody in the
Speaker 1: deal had a good nickname. It was you know, Ko Stick,
Speaker 1: D l A D. Carlos and Kenny he so, so
Speaker 1: it didn't flow. And they were trying were trying to
Speaker 1: find a nickname for me for a while and nothing
Speaker 1: was ever working. And then you know, Boosey said that,
Speaker 1: and I still wasn't I wasn't good with it. But
Speaker 1: then we were out on tour and like five this
Speaker 1: is when it happened, and we were doing this song.
Speaker 1: I used to sing this song called Sweet November, and
Speaker 1: I would sing it, you know, every night, and sing
Speaker 1: it the same way, and after you know, D would
Speaker 1: go that was Kenny Etmans and it was get a
Speaker 1: little Bit of Love. And then one night he changed
Speaker 1: and he said that was baby Face, and that night
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of girls came back backstage looking for
Speaker 1: where's baby Face at? So I was good with my name. Okay, alright, alright,
Speaker 1: that's good. Um in Cincinnati, you're you're one of our
Speaker 1: you're one of our first guests. Um, that's actually from
Speaker 1: the Ohio area. Um. Again, a lot of myth has
Speaker 1: been made of that area and starting like a lot
Speaker 1: of those groups. But I mean what was in Cincinnati
Speaker 1: was it was something in the water at the time.
Speaker 1: It was just like it was like breathing in, chewing
Speaker 1: gum and walking like it's it's the whole Midwest area,
Speaker 1: because it was just as Ohio, it was Chicago, it
Speaker 1: was Indianapolis. Um there was because you know even from Indianapolis,
Speaker 1: you know you had West Montgomery and um, um there
Speaker 1: was Freddie Hubbard's Uh. There was just something something about UM.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe it was the hard times initially and and
Speaker 1: and um people finding themselves, but there was something that
Speaker 1: we were given as just as musicians. And I say
Speaker 1: the same thing about you know Detroit, and like what
Speaker 1: happened in Detroit where you had so many artists that
Speaker 1: were from this general area around in Motown. You know,
Speaker 1: they were all in a ten mile radius. You had
Speaker 1: so many from Dina Rolse to Stevie One, they were
Speaker 1: all in the same area. What happened? What was in
Speaker 1: the water there? And it seems like that that same
Speaker 1: idea went around that whole Midwest area about the musicians
Speaker 1: that ultimately came from there. But unlike Detroit, I mean,
Speaker 1: there really wasn't. I mean, they were started King Records,
Speaker 1: which I assumed that King Records had falling apart after
Speaker 1: James Brown went to Polydor in seventy, So I mean,
Speaker 1: but I don't think there really was an epicenter per se,
Speaker 1: like for Bootie's generation, James Brown's, you know, being in
Speaker 1: that area and recording there all the time, that was
Speaker 1: like inspiration for him in the Ohio like cats then,
Speaker 1: but I mean for for the generation that's in the
Speaker 1: late seventies going into the early eighties, like did you
Speaker 1: feel like being from Ohio was like, oh okay, we
Speaker 1: could still be a thinking or was it like we
Speaker 1: gotta go to l A or we gotta go to
Speaker 1: New York too? Well? Interesting like l A. L. A.
Speaker 1: Red who was from Cincinnati, he came to Indianapolis and
Speaker 1: lived in Indianapolis because he felt like that was a
Speaker 1: place to go. And the reason was because in Indianapolis
Speaker 1: there were clubs, there was a place to play, and
Speaker 1: that didn't exist in Cincinnati. So at least in Indianapolis
Speaker 1: you had a place where you could practice your trade,
Speaker 1: and that wasn't really possible in Ohio. So a lot
Speaker 1: of the guys from from Ohio came to Indianapolis many times.
Speaker 1: In fact, midnight start they were always in Indianapolis playing
Speaker 1: at this club called Mark four Um and um. That
Speaker 1: was kind of it. So that but the whole thing,
Speaker 1: even in Indianapolis, the whole the whole idea of making it.
Speaker 1: You knew you I had to either go to California
Speaker 1: at that point. It was always about California in Chicago
Speaker 1: and because you aren't gonna make it just by standing
Speaker 1: there in any case, whether that was Ohio India. Now
Speaker 1: you meant you mentioned like seven or eight groups that
Speaker 1: you've been in between Elementary and before man Child. But
Speaker 1: what was it about you meeting your partners in the
Speaker 1: deal that made it stick? Like okay, this is my
Speaker 1: this is my official band. Well that was it was
Speaker 1: a long road getting there. Like when in going through Manchild,
Speaker 1: I met man Child, didn't morph into the deal. No,
Speaker 1: I was in three of you though, right, No and
Speaker 1: man Child. Um. Darryl Simmons was in Manchild, but he
Speaker 1: was the only one and uh so l A used
Speaker 1: to come to Indianapolis, as I said, and we would.
Speaker 1: He had this group called I don't know what the
Speaker 1: essence and uh before he turned it into the deal
Speaker 1: and then he started the deal. And I saw the
Speaker 1: deal at this club called the Zodiac and probably and
Speaker 1: they were already kind of jumping on the whole time
Speaker 1: and the Prince and Time thing and like they were
Speaker 1: wearing leg warm as they had they had eyeliner on it.
Speaker 1: They had gone all the way over. And I walked
Speaker 1: in there and I had my members only jacking on it.
Speaker 1: Um And so I was clearly not in the in
Speaker 1: their realm maybe some gap jeans and maybe Georgia's at
Speaker 1: the time, but um, I was not. I was not
Speaker 1: in that lane whatsoever. But I saw how great they were.
Speaker 1: They they were entertainers and um and I met him
Speaker 1: at that particular point and and just kind of said hello.
Speaker 1: And then it's probably about a year later so I
Speaker 1: heard I went and joined this another band man should
Speaker 1: have been Nomad. You like it. It's been in Michigan
Speaker 1: called crywd Pleases, which was basically a top forty band
Speaker 1: and which was probably the best. You know, more people
Speaker 1: should play in top forty bands because in playing the
Speaker 1: top forty band. You learned other people's music, it teaches you.
Speaker 1: The Beatles did that in Hamburg exactly, they had to,
Speaker 1: so it was it was great. So we played the Time,
Speaker 1: we played Earth winning Fire, we'd played you know, cooling
Speaker 1: the Gang and songs that you hate playing nightly and so.
Speaker 1: Um So, while I was in that band, I also
Speaker 1: kind of felt like this was never gonna go anywhere.
Speaker 1: I was trying to get everybody, you know, to think
Speaker 1: about maybe we should try to do a band at
Speaker 1: this point, maybe we should try to get a record deal.
Speaker 1: But at that point there were some guys that was
Speaker 1: already sixty years old, so it was probably a little
Speaker 1: late to be going for um. So, then one of
Speaker 1: the guys in the band's got named Hollywood. He was
Speaker 1: in banding. He was talking to l A on the
Speaker 1: phone and he was a keyboard player and he was
Speaker 1: trying to join the deal. So um I heard talk
Speaker 1: to l A on the phone, and I heard this
Speaker 1: demo that they had the song called turn It Up,
Speaker 1: and it was like so funky and so it was
Speaker 1: just it was just perfect, and I was like, damgn
Speaker 1: I wish I was part of that group. And I
Speaker 1: asked Hollywood to ask l A if they had room
Speaker 1: for a guitar player. M and just put a word
Speaker 1: in for me. So Hollywood asked them, and the word
Speaker 1: came back that I wouldn't breed enough, so I couldn't
Speaker 1: join the band because I just didn't have enough breed.
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're hip enough exactly. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Breed was like it was like kind of like it
Speaker 1: was the Prince in time, you know you. I didn't
Speaker 1: wear leg warmers. Okay, I always think a breed is
Speaker 1: kind of elitist, but it's okay. So I wasn't breathe enough.
Speaker 1: So but I was because up and knock. But you know,
Speaker 1: I had changed. I didn't have members only jacket on
Speaker 1: it anymore. I had changed and that I was wearing
Speaker 1: leg warmers and stuff with them. But LA hadn't seen
Speaker 1: that yet. So um and how that happened, how I
Speaker 1: ultimately how he was able ultimately to see that as
Speaker 1: I had written this song UM called slow Jam from
Speaker 1: the next Start song and uh, the manager UM knew me,
Speaker 1: and he gave them the song, and they had heard
Speaker 1: the song and they wanted to record the song, so
Speaker 1: they asked me to come down to Cincinnati to help
Speaker 1: them record the song. And when I went down there,
Speaker 1: that's when I went and I was singing the demo
Speaker 1: in the studio. That's when La saw me and heard
Speaker 1: me singing. He said, who is that singing? And he
Speaker 1: walked in he saw me and he saw I had
Speaker 1: bread it up. So wait, you you play slow Jam
Speaker 1: one no Parking on the dance floor before you join
Speaker 1: the deal? Yes, I believe it's on the no park Yeah, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: So that was they were at that time. They had
Speaker 1: signed the deal up and they were doing demos on
Speaker 1: the deal, trying to get them a record deal midnight start.
Speaker 1: And so when I came down there, they asked me
Speaker 1: to stay down because I was really good and on
Speaker 1: making four track demos on that little tich four track cassette.
Speaker 1: I was good on doing backgrounds and everything, and and
Speaker 1: they were like bouncing and yep, it sounds like the
Speaker 1: final product. It was all the way there. But wait,
Speaker 1: what were you and eight one? Like? How how progressive
Speaker 1: was technology for you too? Were you already mastering drum machines?
Speaker 1: And there was there was a drum machine. It was
Speaker 1: like the seven or seven rolling seven or seven, So
Speaker 1: you just had to teach yourself like how to yeah,
Speaker 1: just you know the O, B X and UM, so
Speaker 1: you kind of worked with that and and then just
Speaker 1: doing the vocals, you know, just bouncing the bouncing the vocals.
Speaker 1: So I was able to make good demos on the
Speaker 1: four track, and that's why I was asked to stay
Speaker 1: to help make help the deal, make demos and maybe
Speaker 1: do some songwriting with them as well. And so I
Speaker 1: stayed there. I told the crowd please, I wasn't coming
Speaker 1: back for a little bit. I'm gonna help do these demos.
Speaker 1: And then actually I did. After we finished the demos
Speaker 1: and I went back to the crowd pleas and I
Speaker 1: was kind of saying because like my world was back
Speaker 1: into top forty. And then l A called me probably
Speaker 1: about a month later and said, good news. We got
Speaker 1: a record deal. And I was like, good for y'all.
Speaker 1: And then he said they got some other good news
Speaker 1: and I said, what's that. He said, talked to the
Speaker 1: guys and they want you to join the group. So
Speaker 1: that was it. I was able to get away at
Speaker 1: that point. So that was And so when you asked,
Speaker 1: was that why was was that the group? It was?
Speaker 1: It wasn't so much just the group. It was my
Speaker 1: relationship with l A. Me and l A. We we
Speaker 1: clicked at that point, and we we wrote and we
Speaker 1: produced and we kind of just kind of saw that
Speaker 1: saw the things the same way. And it was kind
Speaker 1: of like that partner that I needed. I needed to
Speaker 1: give him confidence and he gave me confidence. A thing.
Speaker 1: But being as though you were the last member to
Speaker 1: join the group, yep, and we all know, especially in
Speaker 1: today's model, like groups aren't even encouraged anymore. It's all
Speaker 1: about solo x because they're easier to control. How are
Speaker 1: you able to even suggest or exercise your powers in
Speaker 1: this ensemble? Like even though l A is your your advocate,
Speaker 1: are the other fellows filled in a certain way? Like? Um,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I didn't come in there. There was
Speaker 1: a couple that one in particular that didn't want me
Speaker 1: there at all. And I was also voted his name
Speaker 1: is Kamal and I'm playing. I was also voted to
Speaker 1: not sing either. Well, how many singers were there? There
Speaker 1: was two and I was voted I didn't come into
Speaker 1: beation and so but I was okay with that because I,
Speaker 1: you know, I just wanted to I just want to
Speaker 1: play guitar and write some songs and and so part
Speaker 1: of that. Part of that was they knew that I
Speaker 1: wasn't trying to I wasn't trying to take anybody's place,
Speaker 1: was gonna shoot him up? Movies? Who's that singing lead
Speaker 1: as Carlos? Uh? Okay? So but to me your backgrounds,
Speaker 1: So were you ready in three had that moment came
Speaker 1: to sing lead? Like? No, not really, I mean I
Speaker 1: was doing demos that we're getting songs placed, you know,
Speaker 1: because I did a song for the Whispers at that time,
Speaker 1: a very place a song for the Whispers a couple
Speaker 1: of times, and uh before even before like this, and uh,
Speaker 1: I even did this parody record of I Gotta Find
Speaker 1: It you will never find it never. But so we
Speaker 1: got our phones ready. Okay, So we were out on tour.
Speaker 1: The very first two we went out on was with
Speaker 1: Luther and DeBarge. You were on part of that tour, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I got I got questions. So um so I was
Speaker 1: like a major fan of l and I loved all
Speaker 1: this love and so for the fun of it, I
Speaker 1: did this little song called All My Children because we
Speaker 1: used to write, we used to watch All My Children musician.
Speaker 1: That's what you do if you afternoon daytime. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: find your soap. And all my children, I only want
Speaker 1: to admit that, thank you all my children. So, uh
Speaker 1: so we watched that crazy and then I wrote, so
Speaker 1: I did you know instead of all this love, I
Speaker 1: did all my children, um chude and comes on. And
Speaker 1: it was very bad, and uh it was great. I
Speaker 1: even played it for L one day and L looked
Speaker 1: at me like, are you like, are you making fun
Speaker 1: of me or what? Yeah? We stay ready. I could
Speaker 1: give you a whole thing on light skinned thing, but anyway,
Speaker 1: it was rough on us at that time. I'll be
Speaker 1: shorter than that's before. That was before it was a
Speaker 1: whole different thing. But light Skin Brothers ruled the early
Speaker 1: eighties completely. Yes, we did the iron fist the gun maybe,
Speaker 1: and then the nineties so so we did this song
Speaker 1: and then uh for somehow another did Griffy heard it right,
Speaker 1: and I want you to do that on my wife.
Speaker 1: So he asked me to do it on char right,
Speaker 1: and so she recorded that song. Yes, yeah, we'll find it.
Speaker 1: We'll find it. I'm googling right now. Wait a minute,
Speaker 1: this is crazy, all right? Did he get commercially released.
Speaker 1: I think it did. It was the first It was
Speaker 1: the first production that me and l A were able
Speaker 1: to do, and the first time we felt like we
Speaker 1: was Jimmy and Terry. We got we got to get
Speaker 1: on a plane and go go away and you know,
Speaker 1: go to California while the band was somewhere else. And
Speaker 1: you know, we used to hear that jim and Terry
Speaker 1: used to do that with the Times, and we was
Speaker 1: we was Jimmy and Terry. Turn down. Wait a minute,
Speaker 1: that's weird you're saying that, because dog all right. So
Speaker 1: when Griffy passed away, his daughter was slowly e baying
Speaker 1: a lot of not stuff like matifacts from there. But
Speaker 1: there were so many half inch tapes of I just
Speaker 1: wanted the soul trained stuff um. But I didn't even
Speaker 1: bother to go through the solar Um half inch reels
Speaker 1: and stuff that I bet you it's there. What was
Speaker 1: what was that Griffy like? Man, he's just one of
Speaker 1: those people that we've read about and I mean, what
Speaker 1: do you think he was like? Well, at the time
Speaker 1: I heard that he might be Sugar knight ish, Well
Speaker 1: he was. I mean, he put you, he put your
Speaker 1: cover sound I've heard that, but I've never heard Dick Griffy.
Speaker 1: I mean, my my impression of him was always like this.
Speaker 1: I never heard no big red stories like you know. Okay,
Speaker 1: So if you're gonna learn that, I'm I'm a I'm
Speaker 1: a soul train of file. So there's a lot of
Speaker 1: episodes in which Don will sarcastically, uh talk about Dick,
Speaker 1: mainly to like Walter and Scotty from the whispers or
Speaker 1: remembers of shalamar Um, you know, like does does your
Speaker 1: boss did grief? You know that you're here in wink
Speaker 1: wink wink that sort of thing. So exactly what was
Speaker 1: Dick Griffy Like, Well, Dick and down we're very close initially.
Speaker 1: Then you know, the whole soul train thing was there,
Speaker 1: and basically Dick decided to go off and do records
Speaker 1: and and down went the TV. Um. Dick Griffy was
Speaker 1: a black man, about as black as they come, and um,
Speaker 1: and he was he's scared some white executives. They were
Speaker 1: they were a little afraid to deal with him because
Speaker 1: they thought because he might actually do something if you
Speaker 1: mess with him, messed with the stuff. Uh. And he
Speaker 1: was also kind of scary sometimes too to talk to
Speaker 1: you know, he checked your hand, you know, please meet
Speaker 1: you exactly. So he was conduct business with the gun
Speaker 1: on the table. But so and people didn't want to,
Speaker 1: like they didn't want to mess with us because we
Speaker 1: were signed over solo records. So for a long time
Speaker 1: we couldn't get any work anywhere else because when they
Speaker 1: hear you would did Griffy, Oh that's all right, not
Speaker 1: to pass on you. So for a second, did he
Speaker 1: kind of jackie to his house producers, like, were you
Speaker 1: kind of the nude? He he got l A on
Speaker 1: a contract. I refused to sign UM, but he did
Speaker 1: get l A. At one point in l A was
Speaker 1: doing it kind of because l A was kind of
Speaker 1: like the guy that was kind of looking out for
Speaker 1: the band the whole time and making sure that, you know,
Speaker 1: everybody was okay. So in the in the interest of
Speaker 1: being manager and trying to taking care of the band,
Speaker 1: being the band leader, he got ended up getting in
Speaker 1: this contract with with Dick and I didn't. I never
Speaker 1: signed UM. So he had l A and I was
Speaker 1: like not for it. And at one point I just
Speaker 1: kind of like just started standing up to him. Um,
Speaker 1: Dick was he he was a brilliant guy at the
Speaker 1: same time, though you know he knew Um, I can
Speaker 1: say that I don't think that our careers would be
Speaker 1: where they are without him. He did have us come
Speaker 1: out here. He did, um open up his doors with
Speaker 1: a studio where we worked over there for for years
Speaker 1: and learned our trade. We learned how to produce under
Speaker 1: his under his house. What was his what was his
Speaker 1: muscle like at radio? Because I want to know how
Speaker 1: much of say, okay, let's take rock steady. How much
Speaker 1: is that, Hey, this is a really great song, let's
Speaker 1: make it a hit? Or how much was like how
Speaker 1: much he say? How how does that work out? You know?
Speaker 1: Without you? Uh? You know you you obviously had your independence,
Speaker 1: you know, um, your promoters that you'd send out there,
Speaker 1: uh here, and our guys that would find them find
Speaker 1: the songs. And you had to have the guys that
Speaker 1: you would pay to go out and get the songs played.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of that and a lot of
Speaker 1: a lot of paying different folks. But the reality is
Speaker 1: that you can't he can't really buy a hit. Um
Speaker 1: a song was gonna ultimately take off because it was
Speaker 1: a good song, and so he might have had a
Speaker 1: song that he believed in and if it wasn't that one,
Speaker 1: then it just wasn't that one. But the difference was
Speaker 1: that he was finding artists and and finding producers that
Speaker 1: actually were giving him great music, and he's the one
Speaker 1: that picked it out and would say, that's the record.
Speaker 1: This is the one part of the reason why I
Speaker 1: have a solo career in the first place. It is
Speaker 1: called it did Griffy. Part of one of the stories
Speaker 1: is when we were doing our second album, UM, the
Speaker 1: Second Deal Second Deal album Material UM. The only reason
Speaker 1: why we were producing that because the manager that we
Speaker 1: had had fell into a lawsuit with Midnight Star and
Speaker 1: we had we shared the same manager. So Midnight Star
Speaker 1: decided that they were not going to uh step Gordon Nope,
Speaker 1: that was perform Pablo Davis was afterwards, they were not
Speaker 1: going to produce us produce our next album. So we
Speaker 1: were kind of like left there open without a producer.
Speaker 1: So the Callaways did the first album. Callaways did the
Speaker 1: first album, and we're Reggie Callaway did the first album,
Speaker 1: and uh so then it was on us to do it,
Speaker 1: are someone to do it? And then Dick called me
Speaker 1: and l I said, well, won't you guys do it,
Speaker 1: and we said, okay, uh sure you could do the record,
Speaker 1: go do it. So we decided to go in and
Speaker 1: start recording the record. So we started putting it together
Speaker 1: and there was one song called Sweet November that I
Speaker 1: had saying that I had sent in for the whispers
Speaker 1: Um and he said, well, why why are y'all doing
Speaker 1: this song? And they said that, well that doesn't really
Speaker 1: fit l I said, they don't really fit Carlos in
Speaker 1: d and he goes, oh, then why come why aren't
Speaker 1: you singing it? Why? Wow? Wow, won't won't Kenny sing it?
Speaker 1: I wouldn't baby face yet? And then uh, he said,
Speaker 1: well Kenny's not the least singer, so that don't make
Speaker 1: no sense. Then Kenny's just singing song. And then they said,
Speaker 1: well we gotta have a meeting on that, so we
Speaker 1: had to get inside. You were like, yes, not really
Speaker 1: because I knew it was gonna be some trouble. So
Speaker 1: but I'm singing that? Is that you the what do
Speaker 1: you call it? Matt? Yeah? Like like the survivors remorse,
Speaker 1: Like did you? Deep down inside? I want to sing
Speaker 1: that song and be lead singer. Here's the thing I
Speaker 1: always put songs first, and so I didn't want to
Speaker 1: give the song away unless someone could do justice to it.
Speaker 1: So that's why it's always been easy for me to
Speaker 1: give songs to someone. If I feel like they took
Speaker 1: it to the next level, then song first, and so
Speaker 1: in the band the guys, That's why I wasn't gonna
Speaker 1: give it to the guys because I knew they couldn't
Speaker 1: pull that one off. And uh and I was hoping
Speaker 1: that you know, Scotty would sing it. So um when
Speaker 1: it came back, we had a meeting about it and
Speaker 1: they voted that I do not get to sing voting
Speaker 1: and so a college So the l A talked to
Speaker 1: Dick and uh, I told him what the answer was,
Speaker 1: and Dick said to him, so, well, let me put
Speaker 1: this wave. You guys want a record deal, then he
Speaker 1: better sing that. That boy better sing that song. So
Speaker 1: so so that's how I started singing a song. Okay,
Speaker 1: you mentioned something and I always wanted to know. Um.
Speaker 1: Whenever I've seen the Whispers perform in concert on television,
Speaker 1: both watch Walter and Scottie are singing the exact same time.
Speaker 1: Who is singing between us two? They both sang, but
Speaker 1: there's no flange effect, like they're literally singing. They they
Speaker 1: both sing that is creepy one is whispering, and so
Speaker 1: like all their leads are pretty them both singing pretty
Speaker 1: well on the records. Um, they will switch off. Scotty
Speaker 1: is the main guy, but when it comes to the
Speaker 1: double and Walter would come in and you know, it's
Speaker 1: that's how that's how it worked. So like Rock State
Speaker 1: didn't want to track them the same at the same
Speaker 1: time or would it beat separate, you still do it separate,
Speaker 1: but they just matched. So they're both singing Simultan. So
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna take the bridge and you
Speaker 1: take the verse and I'll do this that live and
Speaker 1: you do that. It depends on you know, if it's
Speaker 1: the course going and you'll see both of them going.
Speaker 1: But they would they'd be split off because it's all right,
Speaker 1: so I just got another bachelor soul train and um,
Speaker 1: so they're doing Lady and so part is happening, but
Speaker 1: they're literally just doing it both at the same time.
Speaker 1: I'm like, there's no one freaked out that they're just
Speaker 1: literally singing like at the same time. Mean kids, babe,
Speaker 1: Like they're staying at the same time. Like, how okay,
Speaker 1: And so that didn't not freak you out. It's just
Speaker 1: like they just saying together. Yeah, they're just saying together.
Speaker 1: And that's I mean, like I said, most of the
Speaker 1: time it would uh Scotty would lay it and then
Speaker 1: walk to would coming and shadow it. That's crazy, that's crazy.
Speaker 1: So was was I Love You babe? That was your
Speaker 1: official first single? Okay, so what would you at least
Speaker 1: then did you? Guys? Well, I'm glad you mentioned the
Speaker 1: Time thing because I was like it was kind of
Speaker 1: hard to ignore. And no, well, I mean like the
Speaker 1: just the overall imaging was heart was unavoidable. Um when
Speaker 1: those both those even prints himself and with the Time project,
Speaker 1: So was there? I mean, how do you guys create
Speaker 1: your own path without getting compared and that sort of
Speaker 1: thing too? How do you make away without going down
Speaker 1: the same path exactly? Um? Interesting enough. I think that
Speaker 1: we were certainly influenced by them, but when you listen
Speaker 1: to it, it was it was completely different. Music was um,
Speaker 1: but we were certainly as there was this that word
Speaker 1: breed and the way you dressed, the way you uh
Speaker 1: you know, we we will make up. We had eyeliner
Speaker 1: and makeup all the time. It wasn't like just on
Speaker 1: the stage. It's like, no, that's what you do daily.
Speaker 1: My mom was like do we need to talk about something? UM,
Speaker 1: But it was like, you know, it was kind of
Speaker 1: like what you you owned it in that way, and
Speaker 1: and it was kind of like it was your your attitude.
Speaker 1: It was all part of part of the attitude. And
Speaker 1: so that would go as well into the music. And
Speaker 1: and so our lead singer d who was really great
Speaker 1: at coming up with great hooks and and just that
Speaker 1: whole field it was. It was really driven a lot
Speaker 1: by him, and I think I'm I brought more of
Speaker 1: the ballot, the ballot thing to it to the table,
Speaker 1: but then I learned how to be breeding and from
Speaker 1: on the keyboards and um as well as guitar. It
Speaker 1: was because there's a certain way that you know, Prince
Speaker 1: used to play the guitar, how he would how he
Speaker 1: would groove in a very breed style in terms of
Speaker 1: whether it's funky, but there's also little licks that came
Speaker 1: from the whole Minneapolis sound that was we have to
Speaker 1: we have to say it was Prince because you know,
Speaker 1: when we talk about the time, you know, Prince did
Speaker 1: those albums that was and so he created it was.
Speaker 1: That's how genius Prince was that he created a whole
Speaker 1: another sound that was him. But it's sounded like it
Speaker 1: was the time. Did you guys ever get to meet
Speaker 1: any of those guys during your during that time touring period? Um?
Speaker 1: Not really. I think we we ran into Jimmy and
Speaker 1: Terry here at Carlos and Charlie's. There was a club
Speaker 1: here called Carlos and Charlie's. Uh, and we were scared
Speaker 1: to go up and say, hello, there there, y'all all
Speaker 1: have on Susan sunglasses. Oh my god, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: it's Jimmy and Derek. Should we say something now? They
Speaker 1: ain't gonna know who we are? Just forget it, really, yeah,
Speaker 1: And so we kind of stayed where we were in
Speaker 1: so he saw him a couple of times in Carlos
Speaker 1: starts boy where he got the nerve to go up
Speaker 1: and say he was up. When did y'all first meet?
Speaker 1: Because I mean, elephant in the room, you two were
Speaker 1: the superpower. No, we were just getting started. We was
Speaker 1: so we hadn't quite like girlfriend hadn't come out yet,
Speaker 1: and um and the boys. Uh, So that all that
Speaker 1: stuff kind of like when it finally came then it
Speaker 1: then it kind of hit. But for a minute, we
Speaker 1: were just you know, we were watching Jim and Terry
Speaker 1: win with Janet. We was like, we want to do that,
Speaker 1: you know, um, and it didn't seem like we were
Speaker 1: looking for our Janet and didn't think we could never
Speaker 1: find our Janet. And I guess Fans was our first Janet,
Speaker 1: but um, but we kept we were just so amazed
Speaker 1: by them in their production that that's it's pretty much
Speaker 1: who we want to be. So when the Eyes of
Speaker 1: the Eyes of a Stranger was that the official last
Speaker 1: deal album before you all right before well, I mean
Speaker 1: did they officially break up? Or yeah, we we we
Speaker 1: broke up? Okay, Um, how did that happen? Oh, there's
Speaker 1: a there's a story and everything. But um, but we
Speaker 1: were when we went out on tour with uh two
Speaker 1: Occasions was like our big song at that point, and
Speaker 1: uh so it was the biggest that it had happened
Speaker 1: for us coach Initially when we went on tour with
Speaker 1: Luther and DeBarge, it was kind of a learning moment
Speaker 1: because we were getting killed every night. I gotta ask you, okay,
Speaker 1: what was because we we had Chef Gordon on the show,
Speaker 1: and he shared many luther nightmare scenario we know from
Speaker 1: his reputation of controlling things. Uh, what was touring on
Speaker 1: a Luther Anders tour like well? And how controlling was it? He?
Speaker 1: First of all, he was nice as hailed us um. Yes,
Speaker 1: he was really nice to us um, except for like
Speaker 1: the very first date that we did. The very first
Speaker 1: date we played was in Indianapolis, which was it's so
Speaker 1: sucked because we didn't want that to be our first date.
Speaker 1: We had like five dates in front of it, but
Speaker 1: it was a freak snowstorm in the South, so everything
Speaker 1: got canceled and so we ended up playing our first
Speaker 1: date in Indianapolis. And and what happened that night was
Speaker 1: we were in our breed moment and and some of
Speaker 1: the guys went a little too far with the breed okay,
Speaker 1: and they put kind of some lipstick on along with
Speaker 1: Day and so it was just kind of a little
Speaker 1: too rock and roll, and we were saying, y'all shouldn't
Speaker 1: do that, and they said, now we're doing it. So
Speaker 1: we went up and played. And I still remember playing
Speaker 1: that day and just not really being able to breed
Speaker 1: on stage and it feel like it just was. It
Speaker 1: just felt like and then it was over. And uh
Speaker 1: and after we got off stage, Um, the tour manager came,
Speaker 1: our our our road manager came said that all right,
Speaker 1: word came from Luther that if y'all don't take that
Speaker 1: makeup off and stuff like that, y'all gonna get kicked
Speaker 1: off the tour. And said what he said, Look, they
Speaker 1: are they already think this tour is gay enough already.
Speaker 1: So and in the average that was a thing at
Speaker 1: that point. And r it wasn't trying to Luther wasn't
Speaker 1: trying to show that because it just it seemed like
Speaker 1: boy and so and we were we were actually comfortable
Speaker 1: without the lipstick. So we actually ended up doing that.
Speaker 1: But the whole thing was Luther when he when we'd
Speaker 1: run into him in the hallways, he was great. Uh.
Speaker 1: In fact, he he ended up getting mad at the barge.
Speaker 1: He was so kind of pisted at them for some
Speaker 1: reason that we ended up getting better dressing rooms. And
Speaker 1: then and then we got then we started getting invited
Speaker 1: into where he would eat, so it would be fried
Speaker 1: chicken in and everything. We we we got to eat
Speaker 1: really good with him. So we were like the darlings
Speaker 1: of the tour, but we were still getting our bus
Speaker 1: kicked nightly because we would play Luther. First of all,
Speaker 1: there's no beating Luther, but we play and we at
Speaker 1: the at that time, my song was body Talk, and
Speaker 1: we would play nightly, and then at the end of
Speaker 1: Body Talk, every night it would be this whole thing
Speaker 1: of we finished and they say next up is the bars.
Speaker 1: Place would go crazy, and it was just it was
Speaker 1: hurtful and so got it hurt to go out nightly
Speaker 1: to play and get your book kick and so kind
Speaker 1: of like, you know, me and l A didn't like that,
Speaker 1: and we felt like we needed to rehearse a lot
Speaker 1: more so um and try to figure it out. And
Speaker 1: that's when we start figuring out because we you know,
Speaker 1: we come from cities where you battle. You don't just
Speaker 1: get your buck kicked you. You gotta figure out how
Speaker 1: to you know, how to in when you go up
Speaker 1: on stage. It's not it's not a thing where you
Speaker 1: just accept that. So one night we got really lucky
Speaker 1: because l got sick. That means everybody else tried to
Speaker 1: sing his parts and it was best night we ever had.
Speaker 1: And then then it ultimately then years later when we
Speaker 1: had our When we started doing two occasions, it kind
Speaker 1: of turned around. And one of the best things that
Speaker 1: ever happened for two occasions on that tour was, um,
Speaker 1: I think I had my wisdom teach. Something happened with
Speaker 1: my wisdoms. People were impacted and I had to get
Speaker 1: them taken out in the middle of the tour. So
Speaker 1: there there was two shows that I could not do
Speaker 1: and I was just all messed up. And so they
Speaker 1: went on without me, you know, on a couple of shows,
Speaker 1: and then they said, uh, you gotta come back and
Speaker 1: do the show because you know, we got two occasions
Speaker 1: and stuff. So I said, okay, but I can't do
Speaker 1: the whole show. I can only just come in on
Speaker 1: two occasions. So one night it was in New Orleans
Speaker 1: that the UM that's the big place of the Palace
Speaker 1: super Dome, and so I couldn't go on. They did
Speaker 1: most of the show and then they said, we're sorry,
Speaker 1: but you know, very Face, we said he couldn't make
Speaker 1: it tonight, but baby Face, he felt so bad that
Speaker 1: he's gonna come out here and and for farm anyway,
Speaker 1: So I had on a white suit and I like
Speaker 1: walked across the stage in pain. This is the Michael
Speaker 1: Jackson remembered the time exactly, and I sat down at
Speaker 1: the fiano and then Boom Doom, Doom doom, and started
Speaker 1: and started singing place wing crazy. It was the first
Speaker 1: time we got our DeBarge moment back where it was
Speaker 1: like it felt like it's DeBarge here. And and so
Speaker 1: it went so well. I just made it a part
Speaker 1: of I was sick every day. Yeah, it works so
Speaker 1: business it worked well. And then ultimately we were going
Speaker 1: through that whole tour and and we were starting l A,
Speaker 1: and we were getting more dates for in terms of producing.
Speaker 1: And the truth was we we felt like we put
Speaker 1: more time into we were working on our trade more
Speaker 1: than the other guys were at that point. And so
Speaker 1: it got to a point where we felt like this
Speaker 1: is what we need to do, this is this is
Speaker 1: what's calling us. So it was ultimately l A and
Speaker 1: I decided that if the guys want to stay together,
Speaker 1: and that's fine, but we wanted we needed to leave
Speaker 1: at that point and start producing. So how they take
Speaker 1: the news that we just wanted to produce and they
Speaker 1: I don't know, you guys, Darrell Darryl was like he
Speaker 1: wasn't actually in the group, um d and a couple
Speaker 1: of guys that he was never breed enough anyway, a
Speaker 1: bunch of real judgmental um so. But Darrell, Me and
Speaker 1: Darrell grew up together. I knew the known Darrel since
Speaker 1: eighth grade, so um so he came and um he
Speaker 1: was always kind of co writing with us or doing
Speaker 1: something with us. So so we came out here ultimately
Speaker 1: in and started, uh started trying to work out here.
Speaker 1: So was it scary to like, we've such an established
Speaker 1: especially when you had such a major hit, Was it
Speaker 1: scary for you or by that point or just like okay,
Speaker 1: by that point we were kind of having success with
Speaker 1: because that was probably eighty eight, so things were just
Speaker 1: starting to come together. You know. Girl friend had been
Speaker 1: out and um how did how did pebbles coming into
Speaker 1: the picture Because for the longest one I used to
Speaker 1: beat right on magazine. I used to see a lot
Speaker 1: of stock photos with her and Charlie Wilson. I always
Speaker 1: thought that was Charlie Wilson's artist. Well, Charlie did Mercedes Boy,
Speaker 1: and so we were here uh in l A and
Speaker 1: we went to meet with a little Silas and Cheryl
Speaker 1: Dickerson we met with Little, and Little told us about
Speaker 1: Bobby Brown, said, this gave Bobby Brown's you know, you
Speaker 1: know in new addition, he's you know, he's doing this record.
Speaker 1: He's got this record called Girlfriend Out, and we think
Speaker 1: he can be hot, and we weren't really sure about
Speaker 1: that yet. And then we um also met with Cheryl
Speaker 1: Dickinson the same day and she said, you need to
Speaker 1: go check out this girl named Pebbles. She's in the
Speaker 1: studio now. I think her record is done, but you
Speaker 1: need to go check her out. So we got in
Speaker 1: our car and start to leave, and and when we
Speaker 1: were in the car that moment, then we heard Bobby
Speaker 1: Brown just happened to be on the Red to You
Speaker 1: doing a live show and he was singing girlfriend and
Speaker 1: he went for a note my girlfriend and didn't hit it.
Speaker 1: Then he said I hadn't sing this song anyway, and
Speaker 1: then we all we gotta work with him. That's that's
Speaker 1: what sold us, Yeah, because the fact that he just
Speaker 1: like he didn't care, and that's like, okay, that attitude.
Speaker 1: Put that attitude on the right record, and that's that's
Speaker 1: that's crazy. So we decided to work with him. And
Speaker 1: then then a couple of days later, we went over
Speaker 1: and met PEPs in Studio students studio called studio masters,
Speaker 1: uh and um. When we walked in there, she like
Speaker 1: had she was like rich because she like had Monty.
Speaker 1: It had this fruit plate and we never had all
Speaker 1: that stuff. She had fruit plate fruit boy, and we
Speaker 1: were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is crazy. What is
Speaker 1: she rich or something? And then she played us, She
Speaker 1: played us Mercedes Boy. I said, oh my god, this
Speaker 1: girl's gonna be She's gonna be a hit. And so
Speaker 1: as we were starting to walk out, I told l A.
Speaker 1: I said to l A, I said this is girlfriend.
Speaker 1: She's girlfriend. And he said, no, you can't do that.
Speaker 1: I said, she's girlfriend. We need to do that. And
Speaker 1: what it was that we had already met with them,
Speaker 1: ed Exstein going, she did all right without it. We
Speaker 1: never with her, and we had played those played those records.
Speaker 1: We had played a few records, and a bunch of
Speaker 1: the records they were kinding and we were I was
Speaker 1: kind of to stuff about that, and so because I
Speaker 1: because we had played rock Steady and stuff, and they
Speaker 1: were like, I don't see I don't hear it. I
Speaker 1: don't hear it, and and well, we were just playing
Speaker 1: this stuff demos, demos. Did they sound like the final three?
Speaker 1: Did good demos? You? And so they what kind of
Speaker 1: funny on some of the songs. I said, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: but they heard girlfriends said, well we can, we can
Speaker 1: do girlfriends. So they were doing I'm gonna give real numbers.
Speaker 1: We were They wanted to do three songs for twelve grand,
Speaker 1: twelve grand all in okay, um and but that was
Speaker 1: great for us at the moment. Its twelve three songs, Okay,
Speaker 1: we'll do it, so all including studio costs, that studio everything, yes,
Speaker 1: but we were like we're done. We were good for it.
Speaker 1: So then um, then we got this uh, so we
Speaker 1: played we played that song for them and then when
Speaker 1: I when I heard Paps, I said, this is girlfriend.
Speaker 1: So I decided to take I told that we gotta
Speaker 1: take this song and give too. We gotta give it
Speaker 1: to PEPs. We gotta give it to PEPs. And so
Speaker 1: PEPs was like at that time I heard I ended
Speaker 1: up coming back and playing a song for PEPs, says
Speaker 1: I gotta have the song. I gotta have a song.
Speaker 1: And then PEPs and l A said we can't do this.
Speaker 1: Man we can't do this. And then PEPs was married
Speaker 1: at the time, this guy named George Smith, and so
Speaker 1: Pebs George have money. M So George came and said,
Speaker 1: what do you want for the song? And then we said, well, um,
Speaker 1: this is what they've given They've given us this much
Speaker 1: for the song, giving us twelve gram for three songs.
Speaker 1: You were honest, yea, and so he said, I'll tell
Speaker 1: you what I'm gonna give you for the one okay
Speaker 1: exclusive so but and the money was good, But honestly,
Speaker 1: it wasn't completely about the money for me, like I said,
Speaker 1: it was always about the song and where did the
Speaker 1: song belong? And Pebbs she was girlfriend her, Yeah, she
Speaker 1: was girlfriend and so and I said, we we got
Speaker 1: to do it. So I said, l A, we're doing it.
Speaker 1: So l A did it, and he called ed x
Speaker 1: Stein and ed Xtein customed out and and Raman Hervey
Speaker 1: everybody hated l A. Um, you'll never work in this town.
Speaker 1: It was. It was completely like that, and and l
Speaker 1: A got the whole It was all on him because
Speaker 1: they thought he did it, but they didn't try to
Speaker 1: get well soon or none of that stuff wasn't wasn't
Speaker 1: no paper sign. Okay, cool, cool? But can I ask
Speaker 1: you the song Girlfriends as you're talking about it? Because
Speaker 1: that was was that your first? The first female Anthony
Speaker 1: feel like you wrote? Because we were dancing to this
Speaker 1: today in the house, me and my girlfriend, and we
Speaker 1: were like, how did he write this? What was he thinking?
Speaker 1: And how did he know? I mean I was I
Speaker 1: was writing stuff like that all the time, so it was, Um,
Speaker 1: you think about what the girls wanted to say and
Speaker 1: how they felt. You know. That's the one thing I
Speaker 1: didn't ask you. What is and especially for you because
Speaker 1: there's there's so much freaking output and volumes of work
Speaker 1: that you have. What is your daily routine? Do you
Speaker 1: wake up at six in the morning? Do you always
Speaker 1: keep a dictaphone on you at all times? Are you
Speaker 1: singing and you have a bunch of answer machine messages
Speaker 1: of basin? Sometime sometimes I do that, but then most
Speaker 1: of the time not because I don't usually go back
Speaker 1: to it. Um. I always used to feel like if
Speaker 1: it was good enough idea, I'll remember it and it
Speaker 1: will come back to me. Uh So you don't know
Speaker 1: dictaphone from no but but but you're right, because sometimes
Speaker 1: come sometimes I will do it, and I'll go back
Speaker 1: and I'll hear something that's actually was a good idea.
Speaker 1: So looking back, I do wish I kind of had
Speaker 1: some somethings because I would remember things. But it's not
Speaker 1: necessarily the process. The process is usually just getting in
Speaker 1: a room and and if it's co writing, if it's
Speaker 1: game with people, it's it's the moment and it's the
Speaker 1: and just thinking of the who we're writing for and
Speaker 1: what the story is and and uh and and you
Speaker 1: go there. It's I think so much has has had
Speaker 1: to do with my growing up and being in love
Speaker 1: throughout from kindergarten on and always having a heart and
Speaker 1: and being willing to be in love when to be
Speaker 1: loved and broken hearts and all that stuff. My hearts
Speaker 1: were always being broke by girls that didn't even know
Speaker 1: they broke my hearts because I they didn't even because
Speaker 1: I never so but it was but it was like
Speaker 1: the whole round of new Boat thing was a major
Speaker 1: thing for me because this is a girl I had
Speaker 1: like a crush on the sixth grade, went all the
Speaker 1: way up to eighth grade, and so she was like
Speaker 1: my first kiss and my first disc and it was like,
Speaker 1: um so it was major and like after that, so
Speaker 1: I wrote my first song about her, and I wrote
Speaker 1: my first really sad song after her as well. So
Speaker 1: it's like here I go, falling in love to the
Speaker 1: Bitter Taste of Life. So it was like, yeah, wrote
Speaker 1: the Bitter Taste of Life. Can I ask you a question,
Speaker 1: do you find it easier or do you find actually rather,
Speaker 1: do you find like your love songs to be better
Speaker 1: than your breakup songs or vice versa? You know, like,
Speaker 1: what's more, it's the same, the same. Yeah, it's it's all.
Speaker 1: It's all about the heart. So whether it's love or
Speaker 1: broken hearts, it's all comes from the same place. I
Speaker 1: want to ask you about the Bobby Don't Be Cruel
Speaker 1: album when you say you heard him, you know he
Speaker 1: just didn't care and you know he missed a note
Speaker 1: and you just heard that attitude. Uh, did y'all comes
Speaker 1: in with the songs already done or did y'all do
Speaker 1: it together? Um? The songs were kind of already done.
Speaker 1: There were songs that I had written, like like, there's
Speaker 1: a whole story on RONI Man, remind you know every
Speaker 1: little step, Yeah, yeah, let's go there, Let's go there
Speaker 1: is their virgin every little step with Ralph singing lead.
Speaker 1: So that all that was a lot. It's not a
Speaker 1: complete lot you've heard, I've heard it is a complete lie. Alright.
Speaker 1: That's like se Roni was. That song was old by
Speaker 1: the time it came out, right, it was well, yeah,
Speaker 1: because this song was actually I think Roni came out
Speaker 1: in eight and it was written in eighty two. It
Speaker 1: was written on the uh Luther Debarce tour, Oh wow,
Speaker 1: because we were We went to Miami and uh, they
Speaker 1: wouldn't let us on that show for some reason. I
Speaker 1: don't know why. I'm still a little hurt about it.
Speaker 1: And uh, but and so we had to go play
Speaker 1: a skating rink when nobody came because they were all
Speaker 1: at the Lutheran to Bar show. So that show got canceled,
Speaker 1: and so we thought, okay, what we're gonna do. So
Speaker 1: we took our tour bus and parked outside of the
Speaker 1: the arena and we had d stand out front because
Speaker 1: d was our official lead singer, light skinned dude, and
Speaker 1: and so he would he could pull the girls in.
Speaker 1: And so we stood there and uh kept the door open,
Speaker 1: and then girls would come by and coming that the
Speaker 1: bars and now it's not the bars that did. We
Speaker 1: were supposed to be on show, but we could didn't
Speaker 1: make it here on time. So um, they come and
Speaker 1: they said, well, you know, we have a little after
Speaker 1: party over at the hotel. You guys won't come to
Speaker 1: the hotel and stuff and stay fine. So a few
Speaker 1: girls got on, and there was one particular girl that
Speaker 1: got on. It was like very sweet girl. And I said, wow,
Speaker 1: she's she's a nice girl. And so we got to
Speaker 1: the tell. Um. I don't know how this happened, but Daryl,
Speaker 1: for some reason, Darrell had already met somebody in and
Speaker 1: I was rooming with him, and he said, so I'm
Speaker 1: gonna need the room for a little bit, and uh,
Speaker 1: so I couldn't go to my room. So I was
Speaker 1: sitting in the lob before a while and different girls
Speaker 1: who come by and they go upstairs and stuff. And
Speaker 1: then this one girl comes in and I sit with
Speaker 1: her and I'm sitting there. She comes in. We sit
Speaker 1: down and start talking and um, talking about life and
Speaker 1: and um she lives in Miami and who been really
Speaker 1: nice talking And then all of a sudden d comes downstairs.
Speaker 1: He said, oh, there you are. I was looking for you.
Speaker 1: Didn't know you, he was gonna so he grabs her. So,
Speaker 1: so he's going upstairs with her. I'm sitting there by myself.
Speaker 1: So about ten minutes later, she comes running downstairs. She
Speaker 1: comes running downstairs, and she goes and she's going, oh
Speaker 1: my god, oh my god. And uh. And I said
Speaker 1: what he said? I got in there, and he's like,
Speaker 1: you know, he's all over me and this and none.
Speaker 1: And I said, well, what do you expect. You don't
Speaker 1: know him. You should go go to his room that easily.
Speaker 1: She said, well, I thought he was a nicy. He
Speaker 1: thought he's gonna be at least nice like you. I said, well,
Speaker 1: I said so. So we're sitting there and then finally
Speaker 1: Darrel comes downstairs and he leaves the room. And I said,
Speaker 1: you know, I've been sitting down here forever, so I'm
Speaker 1: really kind of tired. I'm gonna go ahead and go
Speaker 1: to my room. She says, well, but I'm stick here
Speaker 1: by myself. I said sorry. She says, what do you
Speaker 1: mind if I come to you? So I said, okay,
Speaker 1: you can come up. So we go up. We sit
Speaker 1: and we talked about all my children and uh and uh,
Speaker 1: and then she says, you know says you're in. If
Speaker 1: you're here in town tomorrow, we can I can show
Speaker 1: you around. I said sure. And then finally she gets
Speaker 1: a knock on the do it from her her friend
Speaker 1: that was there and another exactly, and she says, I'm
Speaker 1: ready to go. So okay, So I decided I'm gonna
Speaker 1: walk her downstairs. As I'm walking her downstairs, then d
Speaker 1: steps out and he says, what is this. This ain't right,
Speaker 1: This ain't right in some of the other choice words,
Speaker 1: and uh and says this Jacoby stuff gotta stop. And
Speaker 1: uh so Jacoby exactly. Now, I'll explain Jacoby. Now, Jacoby
Speaker 1: was a character on All My Children. I love it
Speaker 1: a lot. We need a baby faces that this episode
Speaker 1: we never get the night. So Jacoby was It got
Speaker 1: named Steve Jacoby who actually broke up Cliff and Nina
Speaker 1: and Cliff and and and Cliff and Nina they would
Speaker 1: never get broke up, but Jacoby actuertained between. And so
Speaker 1: the word was if some if you was with the girl,
Speaker 1: and then you have to be worried about getting Jakobe
Speaker 1: because one of the guys might take your girl in
Speaker 1: a second. And it was it was rampant it was rampant,
Speaker 1: and so people were kind of scared. You know, you
Speaker 1: kind of like you have to hide your girls because
Speaker 1: you didn't want somebody to come in and take your girl. Exactly.
Speaker 1: That's funny. We were saying, New Jersey, drive to Kobe.
Speaker 1: So New Jersey. So he's out there, he's out there.
Speaker 1: He goes, Oh, this this stuff gotta stop. This is wrong.
Speaker 1: That's wrong, you know, And we need a meeting tomorrow.
Speaker 1: We need to have a meeting. So the next day
Speaker 1: we had a bad meeting, and uh, we had about
Speaker 1: to Kobe and so so it came up. So it
Speaker 1: came up, Yeah, this gotta stuff that sold j Kobe.
Speaker 1: Stuff is like it's it's it's getting out of hands,
Speaker 1: getting out of hand. And so uh and I stopped
Speaker 1: and I said, wait a minute, I didn't. I didn't, Jakobe.
Speaker 1: You first of all, um, this girl, this girl is
Speaker 1: sweet and and she's a rony and and and you know,
Speaker 1: this is the kind of girl if you treat it right,
Speaker 1: you know, right, I mean the truth about a little
Speaker 1: girl and bag. And then bang it hit me right there.
Speaker 1: And I went upstairs right after that meeting on my
Speaker 1: prophet uh team and wrote, ron dude, that was amazing.
Speaker 1: Gods years later that ended up being with the word
Speaker 1: ronan was an old word at that point, but how
Speaker 1: about James Ingram made it up? So it was an
Speaker 1: old word at that particular point. But then you know
Speaker 1: it was used again and uh um, because I said
Speaker 1: if if if a word just sounds good, feels good,
Speaker 1: you can use it again and again and as a man,
Speaker 1: the fact that I used it again and can we
Speaker 1: talk and Tevin Campbell said no, that were was old.
Speaker 1: Watch just like so you can use them again. I see.
Speaker 1: So the I guess the phenomenon that was don't be
Speaker 1: cruel Um. I mean, no one, no one saw that
Speaker 1: coming never. Uh how did that change? Like what do
Speaker 1: you feel your moment was? Like, w we arrived? Like
Speaker 1: was it with that record? Was it? I think I
Speaker 1: think it was a lot with that record. It was
Speaker 1: it was a lot with Bobby to watch it happened
Speaker 1: for Bobby because see Bobby was an underdog at that
Speaker 1: particular point, and so we were I think in North Carolina,
Speaker 1: we were at the show in North Carolina. They did
Speaker 1: that tour where it was Bobby and um addition, and
Speaker 1: I'll be sure Bobby opened the show in six months
Speaker 1: maybe less, Bobby was closing the show. So I was
Speaker 1: there and we were there this show where Bobby had
Speaker 1: already been on and no one was there. And then
Speaker 1: we walked in on the side of the stage while
Speaker 1: I'll be Sure it was on the stage, and Bobby
Speaker 1: walks out and this whole side starts losing it and
Speaker 1: I'll be Sure thinks since thinking of him, But it
Speaker 1: was Bobby Brown just standing off to the side. So
Speaker 1: Chris Rock has a story where he was with I'll
Speaker 1: be Sure the first moment that I'll be Sure heard
Speaker 1: that Don't Be Cruel album. Yeah, like literally there in
Speaker 1: the back of the tour bus, and Chris Rock is like,
Speaker 1: I literally seen I'll be Sure watch his career go away.
Speaker 1: By the time Side two came on, he was like deflated,
Speaker 1: like this whole body language. Well, look, it was a lot,
Speaker 1: it was a lot of the material, but it was
Speaker 1: really the the thing about Bobby Brown. He was and
Speaker 1: still to this day, I don't think I've seen a
Speaker 1: performer like Bobby Brown like he was in the earliest prime.
Speaker 1: He's like a like a fighter, like like Muhammad Ali
Speaker 1: and his prime. There still I haven't seen any artists
Speaker 1: have that thing that he had about himself, UM swag.
Speaker 1: It was. Yeah, it's amazing because we're not We're not
Speaker 1: talking about the best singer in the world, you know, um,
Speaker 1: but we're talking about an entertainer and who owned it
Speaker 1: and uh and that was so we got more than
Speaker 1: we bargained for it, you know, out of it. We
Speaker 1: I think we helped him finding himself in that in
Speaker 1: that way. Did you watch that New Addition special? Seeing
Speaker 1: a lot of truth in some of the Yeah, I
Speaker 1: did the music. Was about to say, your executive, what
Speaker 1: does that unentail? Like? Well, we do and jam and
Speaker 1: Lewis have a meetings about stuff they handled, like the
Speaker 1: stuff most of the stuff they did, and I did
Speaker 1: all the all the other things I did the earlier
Speaker 1: UM New Edition stuff to you know, the UM with
Speaker 1: the kids stuff and then all the Bobby Brown and
Speaker 1: Johnny stuff as well. Um. Briefly, I want you to
Speaker 1: uh talk about the boys because whenever they were on
Speaker 1: television like our Sening or whatever show, I always felt
Speaker 1: that they were like way more. They were definitely intelligent
Speaker 1: beyond the kids group, the Sons of Light, what they
Speaker 1: what they were that's what they were. Yeah. Really they're
Speaker 1: like in Africa, I believe somewhere and like they're they've
Speaker 1: been there for like last fifteen years. I did not
Speaker 1: know that Kyrie, the oldest one, he ended up producing.
Speaker 1: I want to say he did some stuff on like
Speaker 1: the solo album The Gem. I mean, we can ask
Speaker 1: them about, but he did some co production on there.
Speaker 1: I can you did some actually belout to No, I
Speaker 1: can not on that, but he just did a lot
Speaker 1: of production work. Because I was gonna say, what happened
Speaker 1: of those guys because if you don't know, now you know,
Speaker 1: yeah we can. I guess we could just start cherry
Speaker 1: picking our favorites because there's so many ask about the boys. Okay,
Speaker 1: what was it? I mean, was it just like here's
Speaker 1: your song get out or I'm just saying at this
Speaker 1: point of turning into a machine. But they were at
Speaker 1: the very beginning. So when when when we got the deal,
Speaker 1: when we started working with him, because that was through
Speaker 1: it was through Motown and it was kind of a
Speaker 1: favor to shaff Dickerson, you know, since I got this kids,
Speaker 1: this kid group, and you know they could sing okay, uh,
Speaker 1: they needed um. They wasn't you know, they weren't the
Speaker 1: Jackson five when nobody everybody's always looking for Michael when
Speaker 1: there wasn't really a Michael there. But they had those
Speaker 1: kid voices that like, you know, um, just required just
Speaker 1: are the right kind of thing. And and I always
Speaker 1: wanted to work with like new addition and wanted to
Speaker 1: write new edition records. So that was my chance to
Speaker 1: kind of like do a new new addition to kind
Speaker 1: of songs and and uh and so you know the
Speaker 1: whole down in my heart and exactly there was and um,
Speaker 1: it was fun too. It was it was fun to
Speaker 1: do it, and we didn't The funny thing is that
Speaker 1: we don't. I don't think we were ever thinking as
Speaker 1: we were doing these things that everything was going to
Speaker 1: turn to a massive hit. Uh. There was on a
Speaker 1: point I think maybe we would have had a different
Speaker 1: attitude with things, but we were always kind of like
Speaker 1: so happy that things worked and felt blessed that it
Speaker 1: wasn't really anything where we were popping up, you know,
Speaker 1: chest out about anything because we were all like, really, whoa,
Speaker 1: that's nice and then we were working on the next thing.
Speaker 1: So we never stopped to time to be like not
Speaker 1: to Okay, what was the division of labor between you
Speaker 1: and l A in the studio? Who did what? I
Speaker 1: was mostly the writer and Um. Sometimes I might do
Speaker 1: a drum track and I might start to create, but
Speaker 1: usually I would I would kind of get things started,
Speaker 1: and then I might come up and and do the
Speaker 1: drums on it. Then I would have a lot of
Speaker 1: the song kind of figured out in terms of the
Speaker 1: writing of it, than him and Darrel would come and
Speaker 1: help me finish it up. And in terms of like
Speaker 1: recording the vocals and the vocal production would have that
Speaker 1: would be that could be either one of us. Um
Speaker 1: and Darrel helped a lot in terms of vocal production
Speaker 1: as well. How much patience do you have to have? Now? Okay,
Speaker 1: let's take all right. You guys didn't knocked out right,
Speaker 1: you would have these paul I do as an example. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm just saying I'm trying to get a hard example.
Speaker 1: So pre pro tools, how hard was it to coach
Speaker 1: her through that? I mean today, I'm certain that you
Speaker 1: could have knocked that song out vocally in in two
Speaker 1: hours with today's technology and whatnot. But it was work
Speaker 1: and Um and more than anything was working trying to
Speaker 1: keep give her confidence that she could do it. She
Speaker 1: she didn't have a lot of confidence in it. And
Speaker 1: and l A really have to give it to l A.
Speaker 1: He's kind of really stayed with her and worked on
Speaker 1: it too to get it where it got to. But
Speaker 1: she was she wasn't a confident, you know, artist to
Speaker 1: begin with them. Okay, So the recording habits of some
Speaker 1: of your clients, your clientele, like, is it like the
Speaker 1: lights have to be totally off for the room has
Speaker 1: to be totally clear. For for Paula's nobody. You can't
Speaker 1: even look at me, you know, you know, and and
Speaker 1: that's understandable and something. And there are some people like
Speaker 1: that are great singers like turn the lights out. I
Speaker 1: don't want to see you. I don't want you to
Speaker 1: see me it you know, it doesn't You kind of
Speaker 1: gotta get in your own space. However, however, you get
Speaker 1: it done. Who's a breeze? Like you can knock that
Speaker 1: on the two sides, like who's your one? Take Charlie
Speaker 1: probably one of the best people that have ever worked
Speaker 1: with it is like that. I was just blown away
Speaker 1: about how good they were and how in tune and
Speaker 1: tune they were Selene Dion, She's like, uh, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: is that is that just her thinking it? Really? Because
Speaker 1: she was like so on it and uh um and
Speaker 1: there's and and oh Brandy, Brandy is ridiculous. She's my
Speaker 1: favorite of all She's one of my She's just one
Speaker 1: of my favorite voices of all time. Uh. And then
Speaker 1: the way that she can move her voice and she's
Speaker 1: got so much heart with it. I think that she's
Speaker 1: one of the most underrated singers period. Salange would agree.
Speaker 1: So who who was challenging to record? It's far and like,
Speaker 1: what do you look forward to in a good vocal take?
Speaker 1: Like I hate in the world of production, Like I
Speaker 1: hate the process of vocals, Like it's like after the
Speaker 1: music has done, then I don't have the patience to
Speaker 1: babysit and sit there. And as you as time goes by,
Speaker 1: it does get more difficult to work with people that
Speaker 1: cannot sing as well and you have to put more
Speaker 1: work into it. Um. But you have people that are
Speaker 1: great singers that hate to be in the studio. Johnny
Speaker 1: Gail haste to be in the studio. Yeah, he so
Speaker 1: wants to get in and out of there. Um. She said,
Speaker 1: Like my mind took like five seconds to completely let
Speaker 1: me get out of what I gotta do. You know
Speaker 1: he really wants to He doesn't like recording. Um and
Speaker 1: and that's that's you know, Whitney didn't always love recording.
Speaker 1: She was like, you know what I gotta do? What face,
Speaker 1: what we're gonna do. Let's let's get this down, let's
Speaker 1: got a half hour, let's let's piget this out. Um so.
Speaker 1: And so that's what you try to do. You try
Speaker 1: to prepare it so that you know exactly what you
Speaker 1: need and what you need to get, and you go
Speaker 1: go for it. How long do you feel you need
Speaker 1: with an artist to hit bulls eye? I don't even
Speaker 1: know if your goal is to hit bulls eye? Like,
Speaker 1: I'm sure, at what point are you making these songs
Speaker 1: where you are now officially the machine, Like it's not like, okay,
Speaker 1: well maybe we'll get baby Face to ritis a song.
Speaker 1: It's like when we're getting baby Face, we expect least
Speaker 1: a top five hit. We expect. So it's almost like
Speaker 1: you gotta get a good performance out the artist, But
Speaker 1: then you got to satisfy the manager. And I'm sure
Speaker 1: the you know, I'm sure Clive or whoever the label
Speaker 1: president is like, what is this, um, and what's that
Speaker 1: pressure like on you? I always try to just make
Speaker 1: sure it feels good to me and and but I
Speaker 1: am also the kind of artist that I'll go back
Speaker 1: in again and again to do something, and people aren't
Speaker 1: happy with something that I'll fight to get it, get
Speaker 1: it to where they're happy for I don't I don't
Speaker 1: really have an ego as it relates to that. UM
Speaker 1: and I always tell everyone that when they walk in
Speaker 1: a room, UM, if they like something, that they don't
Speaker 1: like something, let's let me know you you can be
Speaker 1: totally honest. Most of the time they're not. What's an example,
Speaker 1: what's the example of a song that you recorded that
Speaker 1: the client didn't like that you have to go back
Speaker 1: and spruce up a little bit and then it came
Speaker 1: out Okay, it's not bad or I don't know that.
Speaker 1: I it's hard to do so many different things. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure because different things. We might work on it
Speaker 1: a lot, but um, we probably we probably worked on
Speaker 1: XL a little bit. You know. Uh, this is actually
Speaker 1: the piano that played all that um uh, that whole
Speaker 1: Excel album. I did it over record, planting it was
Speaker 1: such a good piano that I I stole it. Name
Speaker 1: was great feeling games he played okay, Um, But so
Speaker 1: I think that the whole idea of if someone if
Speaker 1: someone's not happy with it, then then I'm it's it's
Speaker 1: fine for me to go back and do it again.
Speaker 1: I think that Um. Probably the person I fought with,
Speaker 1: I fought with more than anyone. It's Tony Braxton. We
Speaker 1: fight really Oh yeah, yeah, I mean a place where
Speaker 1: you're comfortable. Yes, she can she I can fight with
Speaker 1: her and she'll she'll give in to me. She won't
Speaker 1: give in to most people, so she will give in
Speaker 1: to me. But but she's a fighter, has she been
Speaker 1: one from the beginning. Though. In the beginning I was
Speaker 1: able to just kind of like, this is what we're
Speaker 1: gonna do, and and she was like, Okay, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do it. And that's why she keep making me high.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to guess the song that like they were
Speaker 1: all like number one, but your voice. No, No, we
Speaker 1: did that together because it was Bryce brought in. Tony
Speaker 1: brought the track to me. She said said, this is
Speaker 1: a song that we cannot figure out what to do,
Speaker 1: what to do with it, and so I took it
Speaker 1: upstairs and were the record plant. I took upstairs, I said, all,
Speaker 1: this is easy, and and went up and I just
Speaker 1: heard it and wrote it out right there, and then
Speaker 1: came downstairs, and then we went down and started recording,
Speaker 1: and then I started adding other guitars and stuff on
Speaker 1: it as well. So one thing I was always curious
Speaker 1: about in your working relationship with Tony. To me, she
Speaker 1: always sounded like the female version of you, like if
Speaker 1: you had a sister that's saying like, y'all, y'all kind
Speaker 1: of mirrod each other in that way. How much of
Speaker 1: that is her? And how much of it is the
Speaker 1: stuff that you were right for her because of a
Speaker 1: little ranger. Yeah, just yeah, just the voice. And I
Speaker 1: mean she just sounded like, yeah, it could be him,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? So how much of that
Speaker 1: is her versus you? Um? I think, I mean, we
Speaker 1: obviously helped guide her to finding that voice. Uh, when
Speaker 1: we did the Boomerang project. Um, that's where Tony was
Speaker 1: kind of discovered. She discovered by doing songs that weren't her.
Speaker 1: Songs like God Loves Should Have Brought You Home was
Speaker 1: written for Anita Baker. Yikes. Yeah, they at movie to
Speaker 1: talk about that, and she didn't. Um Anita didn't want
Speaker 1: to do it. And so when when Tony sing it,
Speaker 1: she you know, I told Tony to sing it like
Speaker 1: she had water in her mouth? Has she seen that
Speaker 1: scene before she sang that song? Did she see that
Speaker 1: sing before she saw sang the song? That sounds she
Speaker 1: didn't see that. I saw the scene, that's what. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I saw that scene as oh my god, should have
Speaker 1: brought your ass home. That was almost like a gift
Speaker 1: to your Yeah. Right after sing that scene and went
Speaker 1: over the l A souse and wrote that song with
Speaker 1: the boson we went because it was perfect, perfect words
Speaker 1: um and then um um you mean the World to
Speaker 1: Me was another one that was written for and maybe
Speaker 1: I get this one on and need it. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: now I see it. I can see it. So Tony's
Speaker 1: whole first record was uh Anita Bigger Demo and actually
Speaker 1: another set love song was written initially for TLC. Okay,
Speaker 1: I can see that, Yeah, I can see that. I
Speaker 1: can totally. Chili. Yeah, Chili was mad. I would have
Speaker 1: been if I was heard. Yeah, but I'm glad as
Speaker 1: a consumer, not mad. Did they not want the song
Speaker 1: or I'm good for taking a song and putting it
Speaker 1: on somebody else. The song comes first, comes first. What
Speaker 1: what do you not regret? But what other notable trade
Speaker 1: offs were there? Well, there was one song that almost
Speaker 1: didn't happen because it was voted to be off the
Speaker 1: record and it became one of their biggest songs. Um
Speaker 1: and they had actually everywhere recorded it and they said, uh.
Speaker 1: And then I got a call from they hit of
Speaker 1: the record company saying, look, they had a meeting and
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but I'm gonna try to find for us
Speaker 1: if I can change. But the song got voted off.
Speaker 1: So what was the song? The song was I'll Make
Speaker 1: Love to You. No, they didn't like it. They felt
Speaker 1: they felt like it was felt like it was too
Speaker 1: similar to like end of the road. They didn't want
Speaker 1: to go down the same road. That's what now, that's
Speaker 1: what Gerald Buzzby told me. What and then he then
Speaker 1: he called me and said, well, I made an executive
Speaker 1: call and I kept it on there. Thank God for
Speaker 1: that executive right. But is it still I wonder in
Speaker 1: their minds, is it's still regrets like they got them paychecks? Uh? No, no,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean they were once but yeah, but
Speaker 1: that is that is the thing. What started happening was
Speaker 1: is that artists start to see that wait a minute,
Speaker 1: money is in the right. So everybody wanted to be
Speaker 1: a part of that instead and um, so they wanted
Speaker 1: to write with you. They want to just write period.
Speaker 1: They wanted to make sure that it might what probably happened.
Speaker 1: It was one of their songs that one, and you know,
Speaker 1: something had to something had to go. And so I
Speaker 1: get how you can how they can get to that point,
Speaker 1: but it's hard to call what what were your feelings
Speaker 1: of into the route as far as the domination and
Speaker 1: and breaking Elvis's records and how god the week week
Speaker 1: like at this point, I was like religiously reading Billboard
Speaker 1: just so to see all these like these uh like
Speaker 1: these fundans like speak of two more weeks. Um, Like,
Speaker 1: are you numb by this point or do you get
Speaker 1: excited like thet call you like like that's probably my
Speaker 1: problem is I never really get that excited about things
Speaker 1: in general. Yeah, and so so so I can only
Speaker 1: remember screaming. One time was when I got a check
Speaker 1: for UM for a song and my business manager called me,
Speaker 1: tell me that you gotta check FOO for uh, this
Speaker 1: one song you got checked for thirty five thousand. I said,
Speaker 1: what what you did? You say? I had never had
Speaker 1: got that money. And I was like, I said, oh
Speaker 1: my god, first, I'm gonna start doing this all the
Speaker 1: time now. And uh. But but other than that, the
Speaker 1: funny thing is that is when those things would happen,
Speaker 1: like into the road, and I would be very I'd
Speaker 1: be very happy that it happened, but I also would
Speaker 1: be ready to move on to the next thing. And
Speaker 1: and me and l A talked about this all the
Speaker 1: time now. We talked about we talked about how we've
Speaker 1: had the successes in our lives and um, and we
Speaker 1: missed out on them because we constantly kept working and
Speaker 1: didn't ever stop to smell the roses, you know, And
Speaker 1: it was just always just kind of like move into
Speaker 1: the next thing. And so so when I walked down
Speaker 1: the hallway and and and see and look at the work,
Speaker 1: a lot of the things kind of forget that you
Speaker 1: were even part of you just because you just because
Speaker 1: you're just you're in workshone and and there's and being
Speaker 1: respectful in terms of the artists that you work and
Speaker 1: stuff like, there's so many artis have come in my life,
Speaker 1: or I wouldn't ask for pictures, you know, say let's
Speaker 1: stop and do a picture. And I just feel like
Speaker 1: just in the work zone. Now, I wish why didn't
Speaker 1: I stop in Roses? Why didn't I stop and appreciate
Speaker 1: this moment? I'm here, I'm I'm standing with Whitney Houston.
Speaker 1: You know she's in here in my studio. Didn't take
Speaker 1: a phone? Why didn't I capture that moment? Because because
Speaker 1: that wasn't the kind of person that I was was
Speaker 1: trying to, you know, capture it for. I wasn't. I
Speaker 1: was into the work zone work of it, I guess.
Speaker 1: Speaking of which, uh, can you talk about the I'm
Speaker 1: Your Baby Tonight project and where it was? I mean,
Speaker 1: were you and and l A pulled in too? I mean,
Speaker 1: because by that point it was, you know, Whitney Houston
Speaker 1: was the largest thing in life, but to the point
Speaker 1: where it was turning against her, like it was we
Speaker 1: were was now getting booed to the Soul Trained Awards.
Speaker 1: We were there at the that Soul Trained Awards. We
Speaker 1: witnessed that, and so we we understood we were brought
Speaker 1: into black and n eyes her right. Um, it was
Speaker 1: amazing when she got booed. I understood why she got
Speaker 1: booed at the time, um, and which was really you
Speaker 1: know when when she would say think she was thank you,
Speaker 1: she it didn't Black people, you know, you better be thankful,
Speaker 1: and she didn't seem thankful. It happened. It had happened
Speaker 1: so much that she was gonna thank you and then
Speaker 1: walk home. Wait a minute, is that why she got booed?
Speaker 1: Was a performance? Because I can't remember, Well, she wasn't
Speaker 1: there the year that they really let the booze out. No,
Speaker 1: there was like, no, she was actually in the audience.
Speaker 1: She was in the audience and she got booed and
Speaker 1: it blew her away. We were there, she was there,
Speaker 1: Paves was there. We were there, and it was there. Yes,
Speaker 1: and it was kind of like, oh, this is kind
Speaker 1: of so and and and because they were kind of
Speaker 1: they were kind of done done with her at that time.
Speaker 1: It was too much. It was like at that point
Speaker 1: she had done everything. It was too much. And that
Speaker 1: was the kind of after we had we had already
Speaker 1: got it met her and she was that she came
Speaker 1: down to Atlanta to um, listen to the listen to
Speaker 1: the songs that we have for and played her a
Speaker 1: couple of records. UM played her I'm Your Baby to
Speaker 1: Night and played her a song called Miracle, and at
Speaker 1: that time she said, uh, I love I'm Your Baby
Speaker 1: to Night and Miracle. She said, I'm not feeling that one.
Speaker 1: Uh I can't relate to that. I want to ask
Speaker 1: so in if you're trying to Black and Eyes Whitney Houston,
Speaker 1: especially coming off the heels of like my of Don't
Speaker 1: Be Cruel album and where new Jack Swing was at
Speaker 1: the time, like a shuffle song. Yeah, it's so unusual.
Speaker 1: Like I mean, besides the way you make me feel,
Speaker 1: I don't I'm your Baby Tonight like the last Black
Speaker 1: Shuffle song that's the shuffle song. It's like more of
Speaker 1: a jazzy dude that things like it's condition Randy Newman
Speaker 1: like you made me feel think of like rounds doing
Speaker 1: it death Monkey, good Time, like some of that you
Speaker 1: two step two with the barbecue, like I'm thinking in
Speaker 1: like yo, like because most cats are like straight up
Speaker 1: using break B and guest verse from this person that person,
Speaker 1: you know, like like yo, I'm I'm I'm hip hop,
Speaker 1: you know, but y'all went to the two steps barbecue
Speaker 1: like was that. Was there any resistance from Clive at
Speaker 1: the time or was it just like because even then,
Speaker 1: like besides the way you made me feel like there
Speaker 1: was no shelf, there was no song like I'm Your
Speaker 1: Baby Tonight that you could even blend with, Like I mean,
Speaker 1: there was like a house mixed to it. But it's
Speaker 1: still like it's just stood out like a sore thumb.
Speaker 1: That's such a risk. Like what made you guys think
Speaker 1: like this is our lead single? It was never about
Speaker 1: trying to follow anybody. Um, And it was never about
Speaker 1: trying to lead either. It was about the song and
Speaker 1: that just that just happened to be a really good feeling.
Speaker 1: And and so as we started writing it, I don't
Speaker 1: it was it just it just turned into that. And
Speaker 1: then I started writing on top of it, and and
Speaker 1: that's what it turned into. And Whitney just happened to
Speaker 1: be the perfect person to deliver it. That songs hard
Speaker 1: than been a hit by anybody else, So certain songs there,
Speaker 1: you know, it was faded that it was Whitney. Houston
Speaker 1: was waiting for her that um, you know, I was
Speaker 1: born to to write that song, and Whitney was born
Speaker 1: to sing that song. And and and it made the difference.
Speaker 1: We we did that last part. We had to come
Speaker 1: up with the you know, some ad libs and uh
Speaker 1: and that whole ending and so we need something and
Speaker 1: face face right something right right, something because I gotta
Speaker 1: go and I don't know if she wanted to go
Speaker 1: somewhere to eat, and I'm there. I got so right
Speaker 1: something quick. So then that then I came up with
Speaker 1: that whole Uh looks like I'm paid on, I'm on
Speaker 1: the table and there hold the cause. And then and
Speaker 1: so that's why she was saying, let's get this over.
Speaker 1: They looked out on fados are we ready? And uh,
Speaker 1: but it is you know, I rarely go back and
Speaker 1: listen to things that I've done. Um, but sometimes when
Speaker 1: I go back, sometimes when I do. And I listened
Speaker 1: to Whitney singing that song. Is so amazing that the
Speaker 1: voice that she had and the way that she sung
Speaker 1: this song, it's like, um, it's I can only listen
Speaker 1: so much because it makes me miss her. Um But UM,
Speaker 1: I'm just so amazed that I feel so blessed that
Speaker 1: I was able to be a part of that, you know,
Speaker 1: and and and part of that journey and part of
Speaker 1: her journey that she was that it made a difference.
Speaker 1: It was it was nowhere as big of a record
Speaker 1: as the records that she had done before. She maybe
Speaker 1: get soil six or seven million on that one. Were
Speaker 1: they more believed that that happened or where normalized her?
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's it's sold well, but it was
Speaker 1: what it was. It was something that kind of normalized
Speaker 1: her and and and made her like, Okay, she's still
Speaker 1: she's still with us. It's the song the sisters could
Speaker 1: sing in the car when she's still with us and
Speaker 1: she's not so pop Because what they it was a
Speaker 1: good question. Now, they didn't want us to They didn't
Speaker 1: want to want us to make her uh petty, right,
Speaker 1: you know. They just wanted her to be a little
Speaker 1: bit more accessible. And and I think and we fortunately,
Speaker 1: you know, we're able to do that. We went to
Speaker 1: Clive when we first met Clive, we went and asked
Speaker 1: if we could do Whitney and uh he said, nah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you guys already have songs ready for We didn't have
Speaker 1: songs ready, but we would. I would have written in
Speaker 1: a second, which she is. So now I tell you
Speaker 1: what we can, We'll let you do Jennifer Holiday, you
Speaker 1: could do her verse And at the time he was like,
Speaker 1: na and uh and so with which today I do
Speaker 1: Jennifer Holiday in a second. Um, because Prince said something
Speaker 1: to me, Um, I went up there too as a
Speaker 1: Jimmy and Terry studio and then I talked to Prince
Speaker 1: for a minute and he said, you know, we are
Speaker 1: so blessed that we actually can get in the studio
Speaker 1: that Chaka Khan called me and asked me, Princess Chuck
Speaker 1: a Coon asked me if I would do a record
Speaker 1: on her, and you know, how much would it cost?
Speaker 1: And I was like, what are you talking about? I
Speaker 1: should pay you, you know, to be able to go
Speaker 1: in the studio with you and work with you. And
Speaker 1: so when you have these artists that we you know,
Speaker 1: that are amazing artists, it's it's just a much a
Speaker 1: privilege for us as writers and producers to be able
Speaker 1: to work with those legendary artists. I ain't saying with
Speaker 1: doing it for free, but okay, all right, check please
Speaker 1: let's go and do it. For part one of our
Speaker 1: interview with baby Face, tune in next week for more
Speaker 1: on q L s Parce. Love Supreme is a production
Speaker 1: of I heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by
Speaker 1: the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,
Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.