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Speaker 1: Of Course Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Hey,

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Speaker 1: welcome to Quest Love Supreme. I'm Quest Love and I'm

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Speaker 1: really really excited about the next two episodes of q

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Speaker 1: l S with our guests Kenneth, baby Face, Emonds. That's right,

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Speaker 1: the man. We learned a lot about this man in

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Speaker 1: this craft, enough to fill two episodes, So without further delay,

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Speaker 1: here is part one. Suprema su Prima roll call, Prima

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Speaker 1: Sama roll call, So Prima su Prima, roll call, Sumama

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Speaker 1: roll quest Love in the place. Yeah, what y'all want

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Speaker 1: to do? Yeah, gotta ask baby Face? Can I get

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Speaker 1: the ladies if I say no? Roll call? My name

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Speaker 1: is Fante. You here me now. Yeah, that's the end

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Speaker 1: of my verse. So I'll take a bow. Some Prima

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Speaker 1: roll call, some prima prima roll call. My name is Sugar. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I ain't no dumbing. Yeah, if I could change the world,

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Speaker 1: you'd all be dummy. Momma Prima road call skills my

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Speaker 1: name doing things, hold my way, yeah, but I just can't.

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Speaker 1: Won't stop until I have my own highway roll Prima

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Speaker 1: road call. Pretty much some Prema roll called yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I'm in this place. Yeah, somebody with me. It's okay

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Speaker 1: because his baby face roll some Prima roll call, so

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Speaker 1: premo roll my name, my name is face. Y'all in

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Speaker 1: my place, up in my space. Yeah, round road roll roll.

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Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another edition of Question Love Supreme,

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Speaker 1: only on Pandora. This is Quest Love on lead vocals.

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Speaker 1: We got uh Fontikolo Jenkins on vocals and saxophone. Got

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Speaker 1: Sugar Steve. We got Sugar Steve on percussion, harp and tambourine,

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Speaker 1: jazz harp, jazz Hart not Jeeves Hart, dass Hart. Okay,

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Speaker 1: just making sure we got Boss Bill on a slide guitar. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Have you got a late lady layah a k Margaret

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Speaker 1: on French horn? Nah. Yeah. We're a collective team known

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Speaker 1: as Team Supreme. We're kind of the rabbit hole seeking

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Speaker 1: uh music, music factory, knowing mused to the stars, unsolicited

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Speaker 1: life advice, given music dweebs. You all know and love

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Speaker 1: and Uh. Our very special guest today is one of

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Speaker 1: the most It's one of the few luminaries UH to

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Speaker 1: have co written I'll say the soundtrack of your life.

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Speaker 1: Whether you care to admit that or not. That's not

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Speaker 1: an exaggeration. Actually said it earlier as I was walking

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Speaker 1: through that hallway with all those plaques on the wall,

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Speaker 1: with pretty much every record that was released in the

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Speaker 1: last thirty years. Wait, I love the fact that, uh

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Speaker 1: my baby Daddy's also alright at the end, and there

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Speaker 1: was base compilation about that right right, that was on

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Speaker 1: the face. Yeah, you see, we already fell into rap alright.

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Speaker 1: H Kenneth Baby Faced SEVMN is a one man tim

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Speaker 1: pan alley, one man bale building with the song catalog

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Speaker 1: to rival all histories Great Slennon McCartney's the Joe Beck Catalog. UM.

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Speaker 1: He's either written or core authored or produced hit after

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Speaker 1: hit after hit after hit. UM. He was just recently

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Speaker 1: inducted into the Illustrious Songwriters Hall of Fame UH this

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Speaker 1: year of Our Lord two thousand seventeen UM and Our Guest.

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Speaker 1: He's a forty time Grammy Award nominee, three of which

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Speaker 1: three of which he was rightfully bestowed the honor of

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Speaker 1: Producer of the Year. UH. He last year napped or

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Speaker 1: a few years ago Naptier eleventh Grammy for UH for

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Speaker 1: the collaborative album with Tony Brixton entitled Love, Marriage and Divorce,

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Speaker 1: which sounds like the man exactly. Um. It's incidentally the

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Speaker 1: temph album that bears his name as a solo artist.

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Speaker 1: And it doesn't stop there. Uh. Two. He entered the

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Speaker 1: record books having pinned into the Road by my high

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Speaker 1: school band meets Uh Boys Too Men, which literally spent

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Speaker 1: the entire summer at number one for thirteen weeks, only

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Speaker 1: to have that record broken again with his I'll Make

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Speaker 1: Love to You, which remained number one for fourteen weeks,

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Speaker 1: dominating the summer of nine. Uh. He's written twenty six

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Speaker 1: number one R and B hits, countless top ten pop hits,

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Speaker 1: and his top forties are in the hundreds. Uh. There

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Speaker 1: is literally no artists that could make a dent uh

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Speaker 1: penetrating modern radio in the nineties without this man behind

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Speaker 1: the wheel as a songwriter, producer, or label head. UM

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Speaker 1: name him Karen White, Whenne Houston, TLC, Eric Clapton, Madonna,

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Speaker 1: Mary J. Blise. The list goes on and on. Uh.

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Speaker 1: If I were to list his entire resume, the show

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Speaker 1: would be over. Lazes and gentlemen, get it up for

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Speaker 1: Kenneth baby Face everything, Thank You. I It's like our

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Speaker 1: dream man. Yeah, I feel like I've wasted my entire life.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. This is walking through the hall. It's like,

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Speaker 1: I feel so small killer. I love how that Jackson's

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Speaker 1: photo hits you right when you walk into the door.

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Speaker 1: Just it just literally hit you. Thank you. Um. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So we have so many questions to ask you. Um.

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Speaker 1: And because you have history in in Middle America, in Indiana, uh,

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Speaker 1: I will ask you about your beginnings, like where did

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Speaker 1: you where did you grow up? Indianapolis, Indiana. Okay, that

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Speaker 1: was that's the real Midwest. When Kokomo will my hometown. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Boss Bills from Kokomo. I never knew there was a Cocomo,

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Speaker 1: not like yeah, it's a real, real place. Unfortunately, Reading

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Speaker 1: Franklin wrote a song about it, too, great song. That's

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Speaker 1: how I knew it learned about it was the opposite. Wait,

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Speaker 1: there's a song called Kokomo Byta France called Personal in

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Speaker 1: Kokomo on a Young Gifted on Black album. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: what was that song about. It's basically just like a

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Speaker 1: slice of life. I think she was her husband was

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Speaker 1: from uh from Cokemo at the time, so I guess

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Speaker 1: they would go back and visit family a lot, and

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Speaker 1: so this song is basically a Bob and her sister

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Speaker 1: lived there for a while. I didn't know that you

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Speaker 1: two might be cousins, might be we all might be cousins. Um,

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Speaker 1: So can I can I assume because of a lot

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Speaker 1: of studies that I've done, Um on the rise of

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Speaker 1: black music in the Midwest, Chicago, Indiana, Ohio? Um that

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Speaker 1: your parents migrated to Indiana or were they? Was your

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Speaker 1: whole family history there? Or well? Yes, to Kentucky? And

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Speaker 1: you know, and then I don't actually might be really

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Speaker 1: providence Kentucky far? How far is that from Bowling Green?

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Speaker 1: Do you know? I have no idea looking up later?

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Speaker 1: All right? Wow, I feel like so okay, So your

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Speaker 1: family started in Kentucky. Yeah, and my mom my dad

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Speaker 1: came from He was in Kentucky, he was, and he

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Speaker 1: ultimately met my mom. He moved. My mom was there

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Speaker 1: already in Indianapolis. My grandfather used to have a soul

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Speaker 1: food restaurant called Chicken Shack, and and uh, wow, I

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Speaker 1: might be the son and my dad met met her

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Speaker 1: at the Chicken Shack. And he was much older, he

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Speaker 1: was about those seventeen years older. And a soulful story

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Speaker 1: of all times, many and he was and he was

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Speaker 1: from you know, Providence, Kentucky. And as a kid, he

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Speaker 1: got out of there because he was a coal miner.

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Speaker 1: And as a kid for about four years he was

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Speaker 1: doing from like eleven too, you know, fifteen or so,

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Speaker 1: and then got out of there finally and and made

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Speaker 1: the Indiana eperson and and did some things. And I

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Speaker 1: don't think he sung a little bit. Actually he had

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Speaker 1: a really good voice and stuff. But it wasn't like

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Speaker 1: we heard music around the house all the time. It

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Speaker 1: we just would here records being played. But it was

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Speaker 1: just kind of, uh, just one of those things we

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Speaker 1: just kind of gravitated to. So you didn't grow up

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Speaker 1: in church or church came a little bit later, like

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Speaker 1: probably about six seventh grade. My mom, she wasn't in

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Speaker 1: church through through all that time. And then then I

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Speaker 1: got introduced to church and and and I would I

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Speaker 1: used to sit outside the once choir was done, I

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Speaker 1: go sit outside so and listen to the radio. So

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Speaker 1: I was amazed to see objection well because because I

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Speaker 1: sat up in the balcony and she she could see.

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Speaker 1: So I snuck out there. Yeah, smart, That's that's how

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Speaker 1: I learned about James Taylor. Oh man, because I was

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Speaker 1: listening to the AM station because you know, on all

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Speaker 1: the black stations were playing church music at that time

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Speaker 1: on Sunday. Okay, then I found the pop station that

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Speaker 1: played this guy that played acoustic guitar, which was James Taylor,

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Speaker 1: which kind of blew me away. So what was the

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Speaker 1: do you know the first record that you purchased? That's

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Speaker 1: a good question. I didn't purchase it or purchase for you. Um,

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Speaker 1: I think this is Jackson five Records, okay, sixth grade?

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Speaker 1: What James Taylor song? If you're talking about a specific

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Speaker 1: James Taylor, it was I heard like fire and rain

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Speaker 1: and um, I think think what was that was firing ring?

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Speaker 1: So you came of age once the Jackson's had signed

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Speaker 1: the Motown and yeah, okay, did I read an interview

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Speaker 1: once where you said you were in the audience when

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Speaker 1: they did Going Back to Indiana? Yeah, they were at

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Speaker 1: the concert that was in Indianapolis. Yeah, what was that like?

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Speaker 1: Because it was I think the audience Mike was louder

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Speaker 1: than the Ronnie Rossefor's keyboard and everything, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: you heard the audience more like even in the Public

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Speaker 1: Enemy sample, the girls screaming like that's what. So what

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Speaker 1: was that? Like, I think they recorded it a couple

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Speaker 1: of places, but that was the main place that they

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Speaker 1: did it. And so I had a terrible seat. I

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Speaker 1: was sitting in back, so all I could see was

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Speaker 1: the back of their froze every now and if they

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Speaker 1: do act, so I could catch a glimpse if they

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Speaker 1: did a spin. Other than that, all you could see

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Speaker 1: was the back of the heads. And but it was

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Speaker 1: I mean, I was like blown away and I think

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Speaker 1: I had tears running them, you know, face, because I

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Speaker 1: just couldn't believe I was there and they went there.

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Speaker 1: They were real because at that particular point, you know,

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Speaker 1: you you'd seen them on TV and in those days

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Speaker 1: that's the only time you saw anybody. So when they

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Speaker 1: came to your town, it was it was amazing. And

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Speaker 1: the crowd was like crowd lost. They had to stop

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Speaker 1: the show about four times because crowd kept rushing the stage.

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Speaker 1: So it was amazing. So just to be their age

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Speaker 1: and to see them, like, was that was that a

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Speaker 1: turning point for you? Like? Oh it was? It was it?

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Speaker 1: That was the point when I knew that that I

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Speaker 1: wanted to do that, I want to do something like that.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know exactly what, but I knew that was

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Speaker 1: I wanted to be in that lane somehow, And I

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Speaker 1: also promised myself at that point that I would meet

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Speaker 1: them one day. You know, wow, you did more than that?

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Speaker 1: How many? How many brothers and sistant? So y'all a

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Speaker 1: kound it and a lot of y'all can sing? Right?

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Speaker 1: Or is it just a couple Kevan and Melvine they

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Speaker 1: could sing and mud because the other ones they couldn't

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Speaker 1: say they thought they could, but they couldn't really sing.

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Speaker 1: So were you the youngest of your fifth so that

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Speaker 1: had one one younger than me? Okay, so so in

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Speaker 1: high school? Were you like starting bands by that point?

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Speaker 1: And I started first started singing in um sixth grade,

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Speaker 1: first picked up the guitar. My brother Melvin brought a

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Speaker 1: guitar in the house and told nobody not to touch it,

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Speaker 1: and uh, of course, of course you gotta leave the room,

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Speaker 1: and uh, and I had to touch it because you know,

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Speaker 1: there was this girl I kind of had a crushhall

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Speaker 1: Round the new Boot was her name, and I wanted

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Speaker 1: to write a song about her. So I grabbed the

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Speaker 1: guitar and started learning these chords that Melvin had already played,

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Speaker 1: and I wrote a song to those chords that he

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Speaker 1: told me I could never play. Do you remember the

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Speaker 1: song Here I Go falling in Love? Did you ever recorded?

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Speaker 1: I haven't recorded. I know it though, I never have

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Speaker 1: you ever thought about recording? It's a simple sprucing up

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Speaker 1: and no, it's it's it's a said make it any

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Speaker 1: but it was. Yeah, and I do have the original lyrics.

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Speaker 1: My mom kept the lyrics that I've written down, so

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Speaker 1: I really does Did she ever hear the song? Did

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Speaker 1: the girl ever hear it? Nay, it doesn't go like that.

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Speaker 1: Did your brother ever find out that? Yeah? He did

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Speaker 1: get beat up. Well, he didn't beat me up, but

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Speaker 1: that's when he told me. He he came to me

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Speaker 1: and said, you know, I don't care how long you try,

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Speaker 1: how hard you tried, you will never be as good

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Speaker 1: as I am. Whole talente famous last words. Y'all still

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Speaker 1: bring that up? No, no point. His name is baby faces,

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Speaker 1: bring it up like he's baby. Let's take a picture

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Speaker 1: of the hallway and that's it, just right, hashtag hallway Right.

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Speaker 1: So you were self taught, like you? Uh? Do you

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Speaker 1: have formal lessons in anything? I was self taught because

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Speaker 1: it was a I'm left handed and it was a

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Speaker 1: right handed guitar, So I had to I had to

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Speaker 1: kind of teach myself. I had to just kind of

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Speaker 1: and I played, so I played upside down, So I

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Speaker 1: can't I couldn't really learn from him other than just

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Speaker 1: to watch how he what cores he played and listened

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Speaker 1: to it and try to figure it out the other

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Speaker 1: way around and so and that's kind of like how

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Speaker 1: you end up learning. So when did you officially uh

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Speaker 1: start singing? What? I what? I can I assume that

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Speaker 1: man child enter the picture earlier? Was this That was

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Speaker 1: right out of high school. But there were groups all throughout,

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Speaker 1: you know, um, like sixth grade, I had a group

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Speaker 1: in my class. We had we sang smooky Robinson song

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Speaker 1: Here I Go falling in Love, um, and hence my

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Speaker 1: song world I wrote here I hope on similar I

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Speaker 1: think spoke he stole it anyway, But so yeah, I

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Speaker 1: started kind of started singing there. And and the very

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Speaker 1: first time I sang, Melvin had come home and came

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Speaker 1: to me and Kevin and said that he had this

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Speaker 1: group called the Soul Innovations and they were playing at

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Speaker 1: the mixer at our high school and so in Jackson

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Speaker 1: five were hot, so he needed one of us to

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Speaker 1: sing one of the Jackson five songs. So we had

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Speaker 1: a contest with each other, and that year I beat Kevan.

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Speaker 1: I could not beat him this year, but so UM

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Speaker 1: I ended up singing Who's Loving You at this mixer,

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Speaker 1: and uh, that was kind of like the start of it,

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Speaker 1: you know. Um. And after after that, then we we

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Speaker 1: tried our There was a group called Indie five, not

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Speaker 1: Jackson five. I was in the ind five for a

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Speaker 1: little bit and then uh in the five broke up.

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Speaker 1: And then I probably about eighth grade, I had a

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Speaker 1: couple of groups jim Ni eight, UM, LC, Soul Unlimited, UM,

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Speaker 1: the Elements. These are all groups in junior high that

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Speaker 1: I was in. So I'm assuming that because of I

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Speaker 1: guess that I guess the I guess you could say

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Speaker 1: that from what I know, uh, in the Midwest, because

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Speaker 1: the employment and industry was up in the factories pretty

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Speaker 1: much all families bestowed uh their kids with musical instruments

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Speaker 1: and that sort of thing of like was there did

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Speaker 1: you ever personally witnessed like a decliner fallout like the

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Speaker 1: particular industry leave Indiana at that time? And then you

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Speaker 1: just saw the decline of interest of music go down,

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Speaker 1: or that didn't happen until I think late seventies. UM,

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Speaker 1: because prior to that, the thing that that I remember

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Speaker 1: the most and I love the most about growing up

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Speaker 1: was that used to hear music all around the neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: So you could walk around on a summer day and

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Speaker 1: just go listening for a band rehearsing somewhere, and that's

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Speaker 1: how you found your you know, your group members. Somebody

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Speaker 1: was practicing inside of the garage, so you might hear

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Speaker 1: a guitar player, bass player, drummer. You walk around the

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Speaker 1: neighborhood all day long and hear different bands playing. And

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Speaker 1: we used to have rival bands where bands were going

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Speaker 1: against each other and stuff, and my my brother's band

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Speaker 1: with the Sole Innovations and the Dianasans and they would compare.

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Speaker 1: Somebody was singing like James Brown, somebody was more like

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Speaker 1: the Temptations. So it was music all around the neighborhood

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Speaker 1: and everybody was like trying to make it and um

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Speaker 1: and the city was pretty supportive because even when I

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Speaker 1: was in ninth grade and with my group the Elements,

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Speaker 1: they had a contest for local bands too. The best

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Speaker 1: local bands would be able to open up for curs

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Speaker 1: Mayfield on his UM super Fly UH tour, and so

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Speaker 1: and my group we we actually won and so we

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Speaker 1: were one of the openness for the for that show.

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Speaker 1: And so it was that musical where there we was.

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Speaker 1: There was music and musicians and everybody wanted to play

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Speaker 1: play an instrument. And that I think when that started

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Speaker 1: to change is when, actually, to be honest, is when

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Speaker 1: disco happened all the clubs every but there used to

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Speaker 1: be clubs where bands were playing all the time. Then

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Speaker 1: when disco started happening, then DJ DJ's kind of like

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Speaker 1: came into the uh took the band members away, and

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Speaker 1: that's when it started to change. Did it change for you,

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Speaker 1: Like did you still feel as though, like, well, I

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Speaker 1: still want to be a musician even though yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think I was. I don't know that I had ever

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Speaker 1: had any choice UH in this It was like something

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Speaker 1: that was just part of my DNA to music. Was

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Speaker 1: your family your parents supportive or was this like, um,

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Speaker 1: get a real job? Where it was it? Well? When

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Speaker 1: I was right out of high school, I joined man Shout.

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Speaker 1: In seventy six, I joined man Shout, which was I

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Speaker 1: was very lucky because I don't know that I even

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Speaker 1: thought about college, and and all my friends were they

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Speaker 1: had thought about it and they were going away, and

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Speaker 1: the next thing I know, maybe I should have to

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Speaker 1: talk about college. But then um, I got asked to

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Speaker 1: join this group called man Child, and they had immediately

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Speaker 1: got a record deal in seventy seven. So I got

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Speaker 1: lucky and we had a record deal and put out

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Speaker 1: a couple of records and did it was regional hits.

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Speaker 1: And but then that only lasted for a little bit,

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Speaker 1: and we had a downside. And in that downside, I

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Speaker 1: was staying home with my mom. And then one day

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Speaker 1: my mom said get in the car and I said, okay,

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Speaker 1: She said just get in the car. Get in the car,

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Speaker 1: and she drove me in front of this uh um

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Speaker 1: story that had a little photo matt the little cubic

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Speaker 1: those things where they used to get your films made,

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Speaker 1: and so they had to help one it signed there,

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Speaker 1: and she said, get one, pick it up, and then

329
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Speaker 1: say get a job, get a job. You're gonna sign,

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Speaker 1: You're gonna you're gonna get a job, and you're gonna

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Speaker 1: do that. Then I left the house that morning. The

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Speaker 1: next morning that's when I'm going to move in with

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Speaker 1: a girlfriend. And so did you never have a day

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Speaker 1: job like a regular I had. I was a camp counselor.

335
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,119
Speaker 1: That was my only job, like a summer job, playing

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00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:29,920
Speaker 1: guitar fans kind of stortady. Okay, so you're you're you're

337
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:37,160
Speaker 1: you're not the plume, your your nickname. Uh I, I've

338
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 1: heard the legend of Bootsy Collins giving you this title.

339
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 1: But how exactly did you come into contact with? Um?

340
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,800
Speaker 1: My partner l A Read and and uh and Ko

341
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:52,879
Speaker 1: one of the bass player in the deal. They were

342
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,160
Speaker 1: actually doing demos with Bootsy when we were in living

343
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,680
Speaker 1: in Cincinnati, and um, we were working on a record

344
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:01,639
Speaker 1: there and sonaty So who was kind of looked downtime

345
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 1: and they were boots here called l A. I think

346
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 1: he already knew him already and asked them to come

347
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,440
Speaker 1: do some tracks. So I just walked in the studio

348
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 1: one day, not knowing him really, and um, I think

349
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 1: I met him before and uh and then he uh,

350
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 1: as soon as I walk in, he just goes baby

351
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 1: face exactly exactly. And Uh. I didn't like it. I

352
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 1: didn't like the sound of it. Just just didn't hit

353
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Speaker 1: me right, and then he just started. Then he said

354
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 1: it again after you knew I didn't like it, and uh,

355
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,360
Speaker 1: and then the guys in the band they kind of

356
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,919
Speaker 1: they kind of stuck with it because everybody in the

357
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,719
Speaker 1: deal had a good nickname. It was you know, Ko Stick,

358
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:58,439
Speaker 1: D l A D. Carlos and Kenny he so, so

359
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 1: it didn't flow. And they were trying were trying to

360
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 1: find a nickname for me for a while and nothing

361
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,159
Speaker 1: was ever working. And then you know, Boosey said that,

362
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 1: and I still wasn't I wasn't good with it. But

363
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 1: then we were out on tour and like five this

364
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 1: is when it happened, and we were doing this song.

365
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 1: I used to sing this song called Sweet November, and

366
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 1: I would sing it, you know, every night, and sing

367
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 1: it the same way, and after you know, D would

368
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 1: go that was Kenny Etmans and it was get a

369
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 1: little Bit of Love. And then one night he changed

370
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: and he said that was baby Face, and that night

371
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of girls came back backstage looking for

372
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:43,200
Speaker 1: where's baby Face at? So I was good with my name. Okay, alright, alright,

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00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 1: that's good. Um in Cincinnati, you're you're one of our

374
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 1: you're one of our first guests. Um, that's actually from

375
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 1: the Ohio area. Um. Again, a lot of myth has

376
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 1: been made of that area and starting like a lot

377
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 1: of those groups. But I mean what was in Cincinnati

378
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 1: was it was something in the water at the time.

379
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 1: It was just like it was like breathing in, chewing

380
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 1: gum and walking like it's it's the whole Midwest area,

381
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: because it was just as Ohio, it was Chicago, it

382
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: was Indianapolis. Um there was because you know even from Indianapolis,

383
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 1: you know you had West Montgomery and um, um there

384
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: was Freddie Hubbard's Uh. There was just something something about UM.

385
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,120
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe it was the hard times initially and and

386
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: and um people finding themselves, but there was something that

387
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: we were given as just as musicians. And I say

388
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: the same thing about you know Detroit, and like what

389
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 1: happened in Detroit where you had so many artists that

390
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: were from this general area around in Motown. You know,

391
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 1: they were all in a ten mile radius. You had

392
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 1: so many from Dina Rolse to Stevie One, they were

393
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 1: all in the same area. What happened? What was in

394
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 1: the water there? And it seems like that that same

395
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: idea went around that whole Midwest area about the musicians

396
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 1: that ultimately came from there. But unlike Detroit, I mean,

397
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,719
Speaker 1: there really wasn't. I mean, they were started King Records,

398
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 1: which I assumed that King Records had falling apart after

399
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: James Brown went to Polydor in seventy, So I mean,

400
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,120
Speaker 1: but I don't think there really was an epicenter per se,

401
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 1: like for Bootie's generation, James Brown's, you know, being in

402
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 1: that area and recording there all the time, that was

403
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 1: like inspiration for him in the Ohio like cats then,

404
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: but I mean for for the generation that's in the

405
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 1: late seventies going into the early eighties, like did you

406
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 1: feel like being from Ohio was like, oh okay, we

407
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 1: could still be a thinking or was it like we

408
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,199
Speaker 1: gotta go to l A or we gotta go to

409
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 1: New York too? Well? Interesting like l A. L. A.

410
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: Red who was from Cincinnati, he came to Indianapolis and

411
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 1: lived in Indianapolis because he felt like that was a

412
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: place to go. And the reason was because in Indianapolis

413
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 1: there were clubs, there was a place to play, and

414
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: that didn't exist in Cincinnati. So at least in Indianapolis

415
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: you had a place where you could practice your trade,

416
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: and that wasn't really possible in Ohio. So a lot

417
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,640
Speaker 1: of the guys from from Ohio came to Indianapolis many times.

418
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: In fact, midnight start they were always in Indianapolis playing

419
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 1: at this club called Mark four Um and um. That

420
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 1: was kind of it. So that but the whole thing,

421
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: even in Indianapolis, the whole the whole idea of making it.

422
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,479
Speaker 1: You knew you I had to either go to California

423
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 1: at that point. It was always about California in Chicago

424
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: and because you aren't gonna make it just by standing

425
00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:01,120
Speaker 1: there in any case, whether that was Ohio India. Now

426
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: you meant you mentioned like seven or eight groups that

427
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 1: you've been in between Elementary and before man Child. But

428
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,159
Speaker 1: what was it about you meeting your partners in the

429
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: deal that made it stick? Like okay, this is my

430
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: this is my official band. Well that was it was

431
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: a long road getting there. Like when in going through Manchild,

432
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: I met man Child, didn't morph into the deal. No,

433
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 1: I was in three of you though, right, No and

434
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: man Child. Um. Darryl Simmons was in Manchild, but he

435
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: was the only one and uh so l A used

436
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: to come to Indianapolis, as I said, and we would.

437
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 1: He had this group called I don't know what the

438
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 1: essence and uh before he turned it into the deal

439
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: and then he started the deal. And I saw the

440
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 1: deal at this club called the Zodiac and probably and

441
00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: they were already kind of jumping on the whole time

442
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: and the Prince and Time thing and like they were

443
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: wearing leg warm as they had they had eyeliner on it.

444
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: They had gone all the way over. And I walked

445
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 1: in there and I had my members only jacking on it.

446
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: Um And so I was clearly not in the in

447
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,439
Speaker 1: their realm maybe some gap jeans and maybe Georgia's at

448
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 1: the time, but um, I was not. I was not

449
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: in that lane whatsoever. But I saw how great they were.

450
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: They they were entertainers and um and I met him

451
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 1: at that particular point and and just kind of said hello.

452
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: And then it's probably about a year later so I

453
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: heard I went and joined this another band man should

454
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 1: have been Nomad. You like it. It's been in Michigan

455
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: called crywd Pleases, which was basically a top forty band

456
00:28:55,440 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: and which was probably the best. You know, more people

457
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: should play in top forty bands because in playing the

458
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,479
Speaker 1: top forty band. You learned other people's music, it teaches you.

459
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: The Beatles did that in Hamburg exactly, they had to,

460
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: so it was it was great. So we played the Time,

461
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: we played Earth winning Fire, we'd played you know, cooling

462
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: the Gang and songs that you hate playing nightly and so.

463
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: Um So, while I was in that band, I also

464
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: kind of felt like this was never gonna go anywhere.

465
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: I was trying to get everybody, you know, to think

466
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: about maybe we should try to do a band at

467
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: this point, maybe we should try to get a record deal.

468
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: But at that point there were some guys that was

469
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: already sixty years old, so it was probably a little

470
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: late to be going for um. So, then one of

471
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: the guys in the band's got named Hollywood. He was

472
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: in banding. He was talking to l A on the

473
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: phone and he was a keyboard player and he was

474
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: trying to join the deal. So um I heard talk

475
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: to l A on the phone, and I heard this

476
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 1: demo that they had the song called turn It Up,

477
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: and it was like so funky and so it was

478
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: just it was just perfect, and I was like, damgn

479
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: I wish I was part of that group. And I

480
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: asked Hollywood to ask l A if they had room

481
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: for a guitar player. M and just put a word

482
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: in for me. So Hollywood asked them, and the word

483
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 1: came back that I wouldn't breed enough, so I couldn't

484
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: join the band because I just didn't have enough breed.

485
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're hip enough exactly. Thank you.

486
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: Breed was like it was like kind of like it

487
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: was the Prince in time, you know you. I didn't

488
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: wear leg warmers. Okay, I always think a breed is

489
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 1: kind of elitist, but it's okay. So I wasn't breathe enough.

490
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: So but I was because up and knock. But you know,

491
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: I had changed. I didn't have members only jacket on

492
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: it anymore. I had changed and that I was wearing

493
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: leg warmers and stuff with them. But LA hadn't seen

494
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: that yet. So um and how that happened, how I

495
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,719
Speaker 1: ultimately how he was able ultimately to see that as

496
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: I had written this song UM called slow Jam from

497
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: the next Start song and uh, the manager UM knew me,

498
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: and he gave them the song, and they had heard

499
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: the song and they wanted to record the song, so

500
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: they asked me to come down to Cincinnati to help

501
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: them record the song. And when I went down there,

502
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: that's when I went and I was singing the demo

503
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 1: in the studio. That's when La saw me and heard

504
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: me singing. He said, who is that singing? And he

505
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: walked in he saw me and he saw I had

506
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: bread it up. So wait, you you play slow Jam

507
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: one no Parking on the dance floor before you join

508
00:31:55,080 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: the deal? Yes, I believe it's on the no park Yeah, yeah, okay,

509
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: So that was they were at that time. They had

510
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: signed the deal up and they were doing demos on

511
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: the deal, trying to get them a record deal midnight start.

512
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: And so when I came down there, they asked me

513
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: to stay down because I was really good and on

514
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: making four track demos on that little tich four track cassette.

515
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: I was good on doing backgrounds and everything, and and

516
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 1: they were like bouncing and yep, it sounds like the

517
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: final product. It was all the way there. But wait,

518
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: what were you and eight one? Like? How how progressive

519
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: was technology for you too? Were you already mastering drum machines?

520
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: And there was there was a drum machine. It was

521
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: like the seven or seven rolling seven or seven, So

522
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: you just had to teach yourself like how to yeah,

523
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: just you know the O, B X and UM, so

524
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: you kind of worked with that and and then just

525
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: doing the vocals, you know, just bouncing the bouncing the vocals.

526
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: So I was able to make good demos on the

527
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: four track, and that's why I was asked to stay

528
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: to help make help the deal, make demos and maybe

529
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: do some songwriting with them as well. And so I

530
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: stayed there. I told the crowd please, I wasn't coming

531
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 1: back for a little bit. I'm gonna help do these demos.

532
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: And then actually I did. After we finished the demos

533
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: and I went back to the crowd pleas and I

534
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: was kind of saying because like my world was back

535
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 1: into top forty. And then l A called me probably

536
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: about a month later and said, good news. We got

537
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: a record deal. And I was like, good for y'all.

538
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: And then he said they got some other good news

539
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: and I said, what's that. He said, talked to the

540
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 1: guys and they want you to join the group. So

541
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: that was it. I was able to get away at

542
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: that point. So that was And so when you asked,

543
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: was that why was was that the group? It was?

544
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: It wasn't so much just the group. It was my

545
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 1: relationship with l A. Me and l A. We we

546
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: clicked at that point, and we we wrote and we

547
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: produced and we kind of just kind of saw that

548
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,839
Speaker 1: saw the things the same way. And it was kind

549
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: of like that partner that I needed. I needed to

550
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: give him confidence and he gave me confidence. A thing.

551
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: But being as though you were the last member to

552
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 1: join the group, yep, and we all know, especially in

553
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 1: today's model, like groups aren't even encouraged anymore. It's all

554
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 1: about solo x because they're easier to control. How are

555
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: you able to even suggest or exercise your powers in

556
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 1: this ensemble? Like even though l A is your your advocate,

557
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: are the other fellows filled in a certain way? Like? Um,

558
00:34:56,200 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I didn't come in there. There was

559
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: a couple that one in particular that didn't want me

560
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: there at all. And I was also voted his name

561
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: is Kamal and I'm playing. I was also voted to

562
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: not sing either. Well, how many singers were there? There

563
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,479
Speaker 1: was two and I was voted I didn't come into

564
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: beation and so but I was okay with that because I,

565
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: you know, I just wanted to I just want to

566
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,959
Speaker 1: play guitar and write some songs and and so part

567
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: of that. Part of that was they knew that I

568
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,479
Speaker 1: wasn't trying to I wasn't trying to take anybody's place,

569
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: was gonna shoot him up? Movies? Who's that singing lead

570
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:47,280
Speaker 1: as Carlos? Uh? Okay? So but to me your backgrounds,

571
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:52,879
Speaker 1: So were you ready in three had that moment came

572
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: to sing lead? Like? No, not really, I mean I

573
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 1: was doing demos that we're getting songs placed, you know,

574
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: because I did a song for the Whispers at that time,

575
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: a very place a song for the Whispers a couple

576
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 1: of times, and uh before even before like this, and uh,

577
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: I even did this parody record of I Gotta Find

578
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: It you will never find it never. But so we

579
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,919
Speaker 1: got our phones ready. Okay, So we were out on tour.

580
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 1: The very first two we went out on was with

581
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:40,919
Speaker 1: Luther and DeBarge. You were on part of that tour, Yeah,

582
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: I got I got questions. So um so I was

583
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,359
Speaker 1: like a major fan of l and I loved all

584
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: this love and so for the fun of it, I

585
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 1: did this little song called All My Children because we

586
00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 1: used to write, we used to watch All My Children musician.

587
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,799
Speaker 1: That's what you do if you afternoon daytime. Yeah, you

588
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: find your soap. And all my children, I only want

589
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 1: to admit that, thank you all my children. So, uh

590
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 1: so we watched that crazy and then I wrote, so

591
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 1: I did you know instead of all this love, I

592
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: did all my children, um chude and comes on. And

593
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: it was very bad, and uh it was great. I

594
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: even played it for L one day and L looked

595
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 1: at me like, are you like, are you making fun

596
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 1: of me or what? Yeah? We stay ready. I could

597
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: give you a whole thing on light skinned thing, but anyway,

598
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: it was rough on us at that time. I'll be

599
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: shorter than that's before. That was before it was a

600
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 1: whole different thing. But light Skin Brothers ruled the early

601
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 1: eighties completely. Yes, we did the iron fist the gun maybe,

602
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 1: and then the nineties so so we did this song

603
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 1: and then uh for somehow another did Griffy heard it right,

604
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: and I want you to do that on my wife.

605
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 1: So he asked me to do it on char right,

606
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: and so she recorded that song. Yes, yeah, we'll find it.

607
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,760
Speaker 1: We'll find it. I'm googling right now. Wait a minute,

608
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 1: this is crazy, all right? Did he get commercially released.

609
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 1: I think it did. It was the first It was

610
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 1: the first production that me and l A were able

611
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 1: to do, and the first time we felt like we

612
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 1: was Jimmy and Terry. We got we got to get

613
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: on a plane and go go away and you know,

614
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: go to California while the band was somewhere else. And

615
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: you know, we used to hear that jim and Terry

616
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 1: used to do that with the Times, and we was

617
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,720
Speaker 1: we was Jimmy and Terry. Turn down. Wait a minute,

618
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: that's weird you're saying that, because dog all right. So

619
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: when Griffy passed away, his daughter was slowly e baying

620
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,959
Speaker 1: a lot of not stuff like matifacts from there. But

621
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 1: there were so many half inch tapes of I just

622
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: wanted the soul trained stuff um. But I didn't even

623
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: bother to go through the solar Um half inch reels

624
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 1: and stuff that I bet you it's there. What was

625
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: what was that Griffy like? Man, he's just one of

626
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 1: those people that we've read about and I mean, what

627
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 1: do you think he was like? Well, at the time

628
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: I heard that he might be Sugar knight ish, Well

629
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: he was. I mean, he put you, he put your

630
00:39:55,280 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 1: cover sound I've heard that, but I've never heard Dick Griffy.

631
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 1: I mean, my my impression of him was always like this.

632
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 1: I never heard no big red stories like you know. Okay,

633
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 1: So if you're gonna learn that, I'm I'm a I'm

634
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 1: a soul train of file. So there's a lot of

635
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: episodes in which Don will sarcastically, uh talk about Dick,

636
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 1: mainly to like Walter and Scotty from the whispers or

637
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 1: remembers of shalamar Um, you know, like does does your

638
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: boss did grief? You know that you're here in wink

639
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: wink wink that sort of thing. So exactly what was

640
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: Dick Griffy Like, Well, Dick and down we're very close initially.

641
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 1: Then you know, the whole soul train thing was there,

642
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:49,240
Speaker 1: and basically Dick decided to go off and do records

643
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: and and down went the TV. Um. Dick Griffy was

644
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: a black man, about as black as they come, and um,

645
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: and he was he's scared some white executives. They were

646
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 1: they were a little afraid to deal with him because

647
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: they thought because he might actually do something if you

648
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 1: mess with him, messed with the stuff. Uh. And he

649
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 1: was also kind of scary sometimes too to talk to

650
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 1: you know, he checked your hand, you know, please meet

651
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: you exactly. So he was conduct business with the gun

652
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: on the table. But so and people didn't want to,

653
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: like they didn't want to mess with us because we

654
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 1: were signed over solo records. So for a long time

655
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 1: we couldn't get any work anywhere else because when they

656
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 1: hear you would did Griffy, Oh that's all right, not

657
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: to pass on you. So for a second, did he

658
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 1: kind of jackie to his house producers, like, were you

659
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 1: kind of the nude? He he got l A on

660
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 1: a contract. I refused to sign UM, but he did

661
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 1: get l A. At one point in l A was

662
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: doing it kind of because l A was kind of

663
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 1: like the guy that was kind of looking out for

664
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 1: the band the whole time and making sure that, you know,

665
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 1: everybody was okay. So in the in the interest of

666
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 1: being manager and trying to taking care of the band,

667
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,840
Speaker 1: being the band leader, he got ended up getting in

668
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: this contract with with Dick and I didn't. I never

669
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: signed UM. So he had l A and I was

670
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 1: like not for it. And at one point I just

671
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: kind of like just started standing up to him. Um,

672
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,800
Speaker 1: Dick was he he was a brilliant guy at the

673
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: same time, though you know he knew Um, I can

674
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: say that I don't think that our careers would be

675
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 1: where they are without him. He did have us come

676
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 1: out here. He did, um open up his doors with

677
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: a studio where we worked over there for for years

678
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 1: and learned our trade. We learned how to produce under

679
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 1: his under his house. What was his what was his

680
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 1: muscle like at radio? Because I want to know how

681
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 1: much of say, okay, let's take rock steady. How much

682
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: is that, Hey, this is a really great song, let's

683
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 1: make it a hit? Or how much was like how

684
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 1: much he say? How how does that work out? You know?

685
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 1: Without you? Uh? You know you you obviously had your independence,

686
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 1: you know, um, your promoters that you'd send out there,

687
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: uh here, and our guys that would find them find

688
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 1: the songs. And you had to have the guys that

689
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:51,800
Speaker 1: you would pay to go out and get the songs played.

690
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 1: There was a lot of that and a lot of

691
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: a lot of paying different folks. But the reality is

692
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: that you can't he can't really buy a hit. Um

693
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 1: a song was gonna ultimately take off because it was

694
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 1: a good song, and so he might have had a

695
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 1: song that he believed in and if it wasn't that one,

696
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 1: then it just wasn't that one. But the difference was

697
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 1: that he was finding artists and and finding producers that

698
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: actually were giving him great music, and he's the one

699
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: that picked it out and would say, that's the record.

700
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 1: This is the one part of the reason why I

701
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: have a solo career in the first place. It is

702
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 1: called it did Griffy. Part of one of the stories

703
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 1: is when we were doing our second album, UM, the

704
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: Second Deal Second Deal album Material UM. The only reason

705
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 1: why we were producing that because the manager that we

706
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 1: had had fell into a lawsuit with Midnight Star and

707
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,799
Speaker 1: we had we shared the same manager. So Midnight Star

708
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:58,760
Speaker 1: decided that they were not going to uh step Gordon Nope,

709
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 1: that was perform Pablo Davis was afterwards, they were not

710
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:07,359
Speaker 1: going to produce us produce our next album. So we

711
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 1: were kind of like left there open without a producer.

712
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 1: So the Callaways did the first album. Callaways did the

713
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:16,440
Speaker 1: first album, and we're Reggie Callaway did the first album,

714
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 1: and uh so then it was on us to do it,

715
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 1: are someone to do it? And then Dick called me

716
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 1: and l I said, well, won't you guys do it,

717
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: and we said, okay, uh sure you could do the record,

718
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 1: go do it. So we decided to go in and

719
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 1: start recording the record. So we started putting it together

720
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 1: and there was one song called Sweet November that I

721
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 1: had saying that I had sent in for the whispers

722
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 1: Um and he said, well, why why are y'all doing

723
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: this song? And they said that, well that doesn't really

724
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: fit l I said, they don't really fit Carlos in

725
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: d and he goes, oh, then why come why aren't

726
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: you singing it? Why? Wow? Wow, won't won't Kenny sing it?

727
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 1: I wouldn't baby face yet? And then uh, he said,

728
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 1: well Kenny's not the least singer, so that don't make

729
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 1: no sense. Then Kenny's just singing song. And then they said,

730
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 1: well we gotta have a meeting on that, so we

731
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:22,399
Speaker 1: had to get inside. You were like, yes, not really

732
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 1: because I knew it was gonna be some trouble. So

733
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 1: but I'm singing that? Is that you the what do

734
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 1: you call it? Matt? Yeah? Like like the survivors remorse,

735
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 1: Like did you? Deep down inside? I want to sing

736
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: that song and be lead singer. Here's the thing I

737
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:43,279
Speaker 1: always put songs first, and so I didn't want to

738
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 1: give the song away unless someone could do justice to it.

739
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 1: So that's why it's always been easy for me to

740
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 1: give songs to someone. If I feel like they took

741
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: it to the next level, then song first, and so

742
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 1: in the band the guys, That's why I wasn't gonna

743
00:46:57,800 --> 00:46:59,280
Speaker 1: give it to the guys because I knew they couldn't

744
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 1: pull that one off. And uh and I was hoping

745
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 1: that you know, Scotty would sing it. So um when

746
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 1: it came back, we had a meeting about it and

747
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 1: they voted that I do not get to sing voting

748
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 1: and so a college So the l A talked to

749
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 1: Dick and uh, I told him what the answer was,

750
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 1: and Dick said to him, so, well, let me put

751
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 1: this wave. You guys want a record deal, then he

752
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 1: better sing that. That boy better sing that song. So

753
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 1: so so that's how I started singing a song. Okay,

754
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 1: you mentioned something and I always wanted to know. Um.

755
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 1: Whenever I've seen the Whispers perform in concert on television,

756
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,799
Speaker 1: both watch Walter and Scottie are singing the exact same time.

757
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 1: Who is singing between us two? They both sang, but

758
00:47:56,760 --> 00:48:01,399
Speaker 1: there's no flange effect, like they're literally singing. They they

759
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 1: both sing that is creepy one is whispering, and so

760
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 1: like all their leads are pretty them both singing pretty

761
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 1: well on the records. Um, they will switch off. Scotty

762
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 1: is the main guy, but when it comes to the

763
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:20,879
Speaker 1: double and Walter would come in and you know, it's

764
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 1: that's how that's how it worked. So like Rock State

765
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 1: didn't want to track them the same at the same

766
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:28,240
Speaker 1: time or would it beat separate, you still do it separate,

767
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: but they just matched. So they're both singing Simultan. So

768
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna take the bridge and you

769
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: take the verse and I'll do this that live and

770
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 1: you do that. It depends on you know, if it's

771
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: the course going and you'll see both of them going.

772
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:43,799
Speaker 1: But they would they'd be split off because it's all right,

773
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 1: so I just got another bachelor soul train and um,

774
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 1: so they're doing Lady and so part is happening, but

775
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 1: they're literally just doing it both at the same time.

776
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:59,360
Speaker 1: I'm like, there's no one freaked out that they're just

777
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: literally singing like at the same time. Mean kids, babe,

778
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:08,320
Speaker 1: Like they're staying at the same time. Like, how okay,

779
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 1: And so that didn't not freak you out. It's just

780
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 1: like they just saying together. Yeah, they're just saying together.

781
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: And that's I mean, like I said, most of the

782
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 1: time it would uh Scotty would lay it and then

783
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:25,720
Speaker 1: walk to would coming and shadow it. That's crazy, that's crazy.

784
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 1: So was was I Love You babe? That was your

785
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:34,879
Speaker 1: official first single? Okay, so what would you at least

786
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:38,719
Speaker 1: then did you? Guys? Well, I'm glad you mentioned the

787
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 1: Time thing because I was like it was kind of

788
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 1: hard to ignore. And no, well, I mean like the

789
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 1: just the overall imaging was heart was unavoidable. Um when

790
00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:00,320
Speaker 1: those both those even prints himself and with the Time project,

791
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 1: So was there? I mean, how do you guys create

792
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 1: your own path without getting compared and that sort of

793
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 1: thing too? How do you make away without going down

794
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 1: the same path exactly? Um? Interesting enough. I think that

795
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:24,879
Speaker 1: we were certainly influenced by them, but when you listen

796
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 1: to it, it was it was completely different. Music was um,

797
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 1: but we were certainly as there was this that word

798
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 1: breed and the way you dressed, the way you uh

799
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 1: you know, we we will make up. We had eyeliner

800
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: and makeup all the time. It wasn't like just on

801
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: the stage. It's like, no, that's what you do daily.

802
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:53,719
Speaker 1: My mom was like do we need to talk about something? UM,

803
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:56,320
Speaker 1: But it was like, you know, it was kind of

804
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 1: like what you you owned it in that way, and

805
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 1: and it was kind of like it was your your attitude.

806
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 1: It was all part of part of the attitude. And

807
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:07,800
Speaker 1: so that would go as well into the music. And

808
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:12,399
Speaker 1: and so our lead singer d who was really great

809
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 1: at coming up with great hooks and and just that

810
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 1: whole field it was. It was really driven a lot

811
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 1: by him, and I think I'm I brought more of

812
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 1: the ballot, the ballot thing to it to the table,

813
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:28,399
Speaker 1: but then I learned how to be breeding and from

814
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 1: on the keyboards and um as well as guitar. It

815
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 1: was because there's a certain way that you know, Prince

816
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 1: used to play the guitar, how he would how he

817
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 1: would groove in a very breed style in terms of

818
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,359
Speaker 1: whether it's funky, but there's also little licks that came

819
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 1: from the whole Minneapolis sound that was we have to

820
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 1: we have to say it was Prince because you know,

821
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:49,279
Speaker 1: when we talk about the time, you know, Prince did

822
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 1: those albums that was and so he created it was.

823
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 1: That's how genius Prince was that he created a whole

824
00:51:55,960 --> 00:52:00,160
Speaker 1: another sound that was him. But it's sounded like it

825
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 1: was the time. Did you guys ever get to meet

826
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:08,319
Speaker 1: any of those guys during your during that time touring period? Um?

827
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 1: Not really. I think we we ran into Jimmy and

828
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 1: Terry here at Carlos and Charlie's. There was a club

829
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: here called Carlos and Charlie's. Uh, and we were scared

830
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 1: to go up and say, hello, there there, y'all all

831
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 1: have on Susan sunglasses. Oh my god, Oh my god,

832
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 1: it's Jimmy and Derek. Should we say something now? They

833
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:36,319
Speaker 1: ain't gonna know who we are? Just forget it, really, yeah,

834
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 1: And so we kind of stayed where we were in

835
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 1: so he saw him a couple of times in Carlos

836
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 1: starts boy where he got the nerve to go up

837
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 1: and say he was up. When did y'all first meet?

838
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 1: Because I mean, elephant in the room, you two were

839
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:53,840
Speaker 1: the superpower. No, we were just getting started. We was

840
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 1: so we hadn't quite like girlfriend hadn't come out yet,

841
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 1: and um and the boys. Uh, So that all that

842
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 1: stuff kind of like when it finally came then it

843
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 1: then it kind of hit. But for a minute, we

844
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 1: were just you know, we were watching Jim and Terry

845
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: win with Janet. We was like, we want to do that,

846
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 1: you know, um, and it didn't seem like we were

847
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 1: looking for our Janet and didn't think we could never

848
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 1: find our Janet. And I guess Fans was our first Janet,

849
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 1: but um, but we kept we were just so amazed

850
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 1: by them in their production that that's it's pretty much

851
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 1: who we want to be. So when the Eyes of

852
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:38,399
Speaker 1: the Eyes of a Stranger was that the official last

853
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: deal album before you all right before well, I mean

854
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 1: did they officially break up? Or yeah, we we we

855
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:58,439
Speaker 1: broke up? Okay, Um, how did that happen? Oh, there's

856
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:01,800
Speaker 1: a there's a story and everything. But um, but we

857
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 1: were when we went out on tour with uh two

858
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 1: Occasions was like our big song at that point, and

859
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 1: uh so it was the biggest that it had happened

860
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 1: for us coach Initially when we went on tour with

861
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:20,280
Speaker 1: Luther and DeBarge, it was kind of a learning moment

862
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:26,280
Speaker 1: because we were getting killed every night. I gotta ask you, okay,

863
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 1: what was because we we had Chef Gordon on the show,

864
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:35,759
Speaker 1: and he shared many luther nightmare scenario we know from

865
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:43,440
Speaker 1: his reputation of controlling things. Uh, what was touring on

866
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:47,080
Speaker 1: a Luther Anders tour like well? And how controlling was it? He?

867
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:52,399
Speaker 1: First of all, he was nice as hailed us um. Yes,

868
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:57,880
Speaker 1: he was really nice to us um, except for like

869
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 1: the very first date that we did. The very first

870
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 1: date we played was in Indianapolis, which was it's so

871
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 1: sucked because we didn't want that to be our first date.

872
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:09,759
Speaker 1: We had like five dates in front of it, but

873
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:13,840
Speaker 1: it was a freak snowstorm in the South, so everything

874
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:17,359
Speaker 1: got canceled and so we ended up playing our first

875
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:21,880
Speaker 1: date in Indianapolis. And and what happened that night was

876
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 1: we were in our breed moment and and some of

877
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:33,320
Speaker 1: the guys went a little too far with the breed okay,

878
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 1: and they put kind of some lipstick on along with

879
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:39,839
Speaker 1: Day and so it was just kind of a little

880
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:42,360
Speaker 1: too rock and roll, and we were saying, y'all shouldn't

881
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 1: do that, and they said, now we're doing it. So

882
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 1: we went up and played. And I still remember playing

883
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 1: that day and just not really being able to breed

884
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:52,400
Speaker 1: on stage and it feel like it just was. It

885
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 1: just felt like and then it was over. And uh

886
00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:01,879
Speaker 1: and after we got off stage, Um, the tour manager came,

887
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 1: our our our road manager came said that all right,

888
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 1: word came from Luther that if y'all don't take that

889
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:09,960
Speaker 1: makeup off and stuff like that, y'all gonna get kicked

890
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:13,879
Speaker 1: off the tour. And said what he said, Look, they

891
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:16,760
Speaker 1: are they already think this tour is gay enough already.

892
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 1: So and in the average that was a thing at

893
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 1: that point. And r it wasn't trying to Luther wasn't

894
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 1: trying to show that because it just it seemed like

895
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:31,400
Speaker 1: boy and so and we were we were actually comfortable

896
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:34,800
Speaker 1: without the lipstick. So we actually ended up doing that.

897
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 1: But the whole thing was Luther when he when we'd

898
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 1: run into him in the hallways, he was great. Uh.

899
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 1: In fact, he he ended up getting mad at the barge.

900
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 1: He was so kind of pisted at them for some

901
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:55,840
Speaker 1: reason that we ended up getting better dressing rooms. And

902
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:59,360
Speaker 1: then and then we got then we started getting invited

903
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:01,439
Speaker 1: into where he would eat, so it would be fried

904
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 1: chicken in and everything. We we we got to eat

905
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:06,880
Speaker 1: really good with him. So we were like the darlings

906
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 1: of the tour, but we were still getting our bus

907
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:13,359
Speaker 1: kicked nightly because we would play Luther. First of all,

908
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 1: there's no beating Luther, but we play and we at

909
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 1: the at that time, my song was body Talk, and

910
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 1: we would play nightly, and then at the end of

911
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 1: Body Talk, every night it would be this whole thing

912
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 1: of we finished and they say next up is the bars.

913
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:36,560
Speaker 1: Place would go crazy, and it was just it was

914
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 1: hurtful and so got it hurt to go out nightly

915
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 1: to play and get your book kick and so kind

916
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 1: of like, you know, me and l A didn't like that,

917
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 1: and we felt like we needed to rehearse a lot

918
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 1: more so um and try to figure it out. And

919
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 1: that's when we start figuring out because we you know,

920
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:56,320
Speaker 1: we come from cities where you battle. You don't just

921
00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 1: get your buck kicked you. You gotta figure out how

922
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: to you know, how to in when you go up

923
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:02,560
Speaker 1: on stage. It's not it's not a thing where you

924
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 1: just accept that. So one night we got really lucky

925
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 1: because l got sick. That means everybody else tried to

926
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 1: sing his parts and it was best night we ever had.

927
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 1: And then then it ultimately then years later when we

928
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 1: had our When we started doing two occasions, it kind

929
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 1: of turned around. And one of the best things that

930
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 1: ever happened for two occasions on that tour was, um,

931
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 1: I think I had my wisdom teach. Something happened with

932
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 1: my wisdoms. People were impacted and I had to get

933
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 1: them taken out in the middle of the tour. So

934
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 1: there there was two shows that I could not do

935
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 1: and I was just all messed up. And so they

936
00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 1: went on without me, you know, on a couple of shows,

937
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 1: and then they said, uh, you gotta come back and

938
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,080
Speaker 1: do the show because you know, we got two occasions

939
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 1: and stuff. So I said, okay, but I can't do

940
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 1: the whole show. I can only just come in on

941
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 1: two occasions. So one night it was in New Orleans

942
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 1: that the UM that's the big place of the Palace

943
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 1: super Dome, and so I couldn't go on. They did

944
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 1: most of the show and then they said, we're sorry,

945
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 1: but you know, very Face, we said he couldn't make

946
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 1: it tonight, but baby Face, he felt so bad that

947
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 1: he's gonna come out here and and for farm anyway,

948
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 1: So I had on a white suit and I like

949
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:45,280
Speaker 1: walked across the stage in pain. This is the Michael

950
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 1: Jackson remembered the time exactly, and I sat down at

951
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 1: the fiano and then Boom Doom, Doom doom, and started

952
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 1: and started singing place wing crazy. It was the first

953
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:04,160
Speaker 1: time we got our DeBarge moment back where it was

954
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:09,520
Speaker 1: like it felt like it's DeBarge here. And and so

955
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:13,560
Speaker 1: it went so well. I just made it a part

956
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 1: of I was sick every day. Yeah, it works so

957
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 1: business it worked well. And then ultimately we were going

958
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:34,800
Speaker 1: through that whole tour and and we were starting l A,

959
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:37,760
Speaker 1: and we were getting more dates for in terms of producing.

960
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 1: And the truth was we we felt like we put

961
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:45,160
Speaker 1: more time into we were working on our trade more

962
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:47,440
Speaker 1: than the other guys were at that point. And so

963
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 1: it got to a point where we felt like this

964
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 1: is what we need to do, this is this is

965
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 1: what's calling us. So it was ultimately l A and

966
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:56,720
Speaker 1: I decided that if the guys want to stay together,

967
01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 1: and that's fine, but we wanted we needed to leave

968
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 1: at that point and start producing. So how they take

969
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:04,440
Speaker 1: the news that we just wanted to produce and they

970
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 1: I don't know, you guys, Darrell Darryl was like he

971
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:14,200
Speaker 1: wasn't actually in the group, um d and a couple

972
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:18,720
Speaker 1: of guys that he was never breed enough anyway, a

973
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:25,320
Speaker 1: bunch of real judgmental um so. But Darrell, Me and

974
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:27,600
Speaker 1: Darrell grew up together. I knew the known Darrel since

975
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 1: eighth grade, so um so he came and um he

976
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:33,440
Speaker 1: was always kind of co writing with us or doing

977
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 1: something with us. So so we came out here ultimately

978
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:40,680
Speaker 1: in and started, uh started trying to work out here.

979
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:46,600
Speaker 1: So was it scary to like, we've such an established

980
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:50,240
Speaker 1: especially when you had such a major hit, Was it

981
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:52,840
Speaker 1: scary for you or by that point or just like okay,

982
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 1: by that point we were kind of having success with

983
01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 1: because that was probably eighty eight, so things were just

984
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 1: starting to come together. You know. Girl friend had been

985
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:03,520
Speaker 1: out and um how did how did pebbles coming into

986
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 1: the picture Because for the longest one I used to

987
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 1: beat right on magazine. I used to see a lot

988
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 1: of stock photos with her and Charlie Wilson. I always

989
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:15,240
Speaker 1: thought that was Charlie Wilson's artist. Well, Charlie did Mercedes Boy,

990
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:20,120
Speaker 1: and so we were here uh in l A and

991
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 1: we went to meet with a little Silas and Cheryl

992
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 1: Dickerson we met with Little, and Little told us about

993
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 1: Bobby Brown, said, this gave Bobby Brown's you know, you

994
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 1: know in new addition, he's you know, he's doing this record.

995
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:35,840
Speaker 1: He's got this record called Girlfriend Out, and we think

996
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 1: he can be hot, and we weren't really sure about

997
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:43,479
Speaker 1: that yet. And then we um also met with Cheryl

998
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:46,280
Speaker 1: Dickinson the same day and she said, you need to

999
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:48,480
Speaker 1: go check out this girl named Pebbles. She's in the

1000
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:50,240
Speaker 1: studio now. I think her record is done, but you

1001
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:52,480
Speaker 1: need to go check her out. So we got in

1002
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 1: our car and start to leave, and and when we

1003
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 1: were in the car that moment, then we heard Bobby

1004
01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:00,200
Speaker 1: Brown just happened to be on the Red to You

1005
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:05,440
Speaker 1: doing a live show and he was singing girlfriend and

1006
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 1: he went for a note my girlfriend and didn't hit it.

1007
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:16,560
Speaker 1: Then he said I hadn't sing this song anyway, and

1008
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 1: then we all we gotta work with him. That's that's

1009
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:25,600
Speaker 1: what sold us, Yeah, because the fact that he just

1010
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:28,840
Speaker 1: like he didn't care, and that's like, okay, that attitude.

1011
01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 1: Put that attitude on the right record, and that's that's

1012
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:33,640
Speaker 1: that's crazy. So we decided to work with him. And

1013
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:35,680
Speaker 1: then then a couple of days later, we went over

1014
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:42,360
Speaker 1: and met PEPs in Studio students studio called studio masters,

1015
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:46,720
Speaker 1: uh and um. When we walked in there, she like

1016
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 1: had she was like rich because she like had Monty.

1017
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:01,640
Speaker 1: It had this fruit plate and we never had all

1018
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:04,800
Speaker 1: that stuff. She had fruit plate fruit boy, and we

1019
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:07,600
Speaker 1: were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is crazy. What is

1020
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:10,320
Speaker 1: she rich or something? And then she played us, She

1021
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 1: played us Mercedes Boy. I said, oh my god, this

1022
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:16,240
Speaker 1: girl's gonna be She's gonna be a hit. And so

1023
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 1: as we were starting to walk out, I told l A.

1024
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:21,840
Speaker 1: I said to l A, I said this is girlfriend.

1025
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:25,360
Speaker 1: She's girlfriend. And he said, no, you can't do that.

1026
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:28,160
Speaker 1: I said, she's girlfriend. We need to do that. And

1027
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 1: what it was that we had already met with them,

1028
01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:47,920
Speaker 1: ed Exstein going, she did all right without it. We

1029
01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 1: never with her, and we had played those played those records.

1030
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:54,040
Speaker 1: We had played a few records, and a bunch of

1031
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:56,960
Speaker 1: the records they were kinding and we were I was

1032
01:04:57,040 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 1: kind of to stuff about that, and so because I

1033
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:02,000
Speaker 1: because we had played rock Steady and stuff, and they

1034
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:03,120
Speaker 1: were like, I don't see I don't hear it. I

1035
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:06,000
Speaker 1: don't hear it, and and well, we were just playing

1036
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:10,560
Speaker 1: this stuff demos, demos. Did they sound like the final three?

1037
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:17,000
Speaker 1: Did good demos? You? And so they what kind of

1038
01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:18,760
Speaker 1: funny on some of the songs. I said, okay, okay,

1039
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:20,880
Speaker 1: but they heard girlfriends said, well we can, we can

1040
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:23,320
Speaker 1: do girlfriends. So they were doing I'm gonna give real numbers.

1041
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:27,479
Speaker 1: We were They wanted to do three songs for twelve grand,

1042
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:32,080
Speaker 1: twelve grand all in okay, um and but that was

1043
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:34,959
Speaker 1: great for us at the moment. Its twelve three songs, Okay,

1044
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 1: we'll do it, so all including studio costs, that studio everything, yes,

1045
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:42,640
Speaker 1: but we were like we're done. We were good for it.

1046
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:49,520
Speaker 1: So then um, then we got this uh, so we

1047
01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:52,640
Speaker 1: played we played that song for them and then when

1048
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:55,520
Speaker 1: I when I heard Paps, I said, this is girlfriend.

1049
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:59,160
Speaker 1: So I decided to take I told that we gotta

1050
01:05:59,160 --> 01:06:01,360
Speaker 1: take this song and give too. We gotta give it

1051
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:03,080
Speaker 1: to PEPs. We gotta give it to PEPs. And so

1052
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:05,920
Speaker 1: PEPs was like at that time I heard I ended

1053
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:07,520
Speaker 1: up coming back and playing a song for PEPs, says

1054
01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:09,080
Speaker 1: I gotta have the song. I gotta have a song.

1055
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:12,800
Speaker 1: And then PEPs and l A said we can't do this.

1056
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:15,160
Speaker 1: Man we can't do this. And then PEPs was married

1057
01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:19,880
Speaker 1: at the time, this guy named George Smith, and so

1058
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:24,800
Speaker 1: Pebs George have money. M So George came and said,

1059
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:29,920
Speaker 1: what do you want for the song? And then we said, well, um,

1060
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:32,840
Speaker 1: this is what they've given They've given us this much

1061
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:34,800
Speaker 1: for the song, giving us twelve gram for three songs.

1062
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:40,960
Speaker 1: You were honest, yea, and so he said, I'll tell

1063
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:47,280
Speaker 1: you what I'm gonna give you for the one okay

1064
01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:53,200
Speaker 1: exclusive so but and the money was good, But honestly,

1065
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:56,280
Speaker 1: it wasn't completely about the money for me, like I said,

1066
01:06:56,320 --> 01:06:59,000
Speaker 1: it was always about the song and where did the

1067
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:05,200
Speaker 1: song belong? And Pebbs she was girlfriend her, Yeah, she

1068
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:08,360
Speaker 1: was girlfriend and so and I said, we we got

1069
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:11,040
Speaker 1: to do it. So I said, l A, we're doing it.

1070
01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:12,680
Speaker 1: So l A did it, and he called ed x

1071
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:17,520
Speaker 1: Stein and ed Xtein customed out and and Raman Hervey

1072
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:22,560
Speaker 1: everybody hated l A. Um, you'll never work in this town.

1073
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:25,200
Speaker 1: It was. It was completely like that, and and l

1074
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:29,000
Speaker 1: A got the whole It was all on him because

1075
01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:31,640
Speaker 1: they thought he did it, but they didn't try to

1076
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:35,439
Speaker 1: get well soon or none of that stuff wasn't wasn't

1077
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:37,840
Speaker 1: no paper sign. Okay, cool, cool? But can I ask

1078
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:40,040
Speaker 1: you the song Girlfriends as you're talking about it? Because

1079
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:42,720
Speaker 1: that was was that your first? The first female Anthony

1080
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:44,560
Speaker 1: feel like you wrote? Because we were dancing to this

1081
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:46,040
Speaker 1: today in the house, me and my girlfriend, and we

1082
01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:49,120
Speaker 1: were like, how did he write this? What was he thinking?

1083
01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:51,760
Speaker 1: And how did he know? I mean I was I

1084
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:54,080
Speaker 1: was writing stuff like that all the time, so it was, Um,

1085
01:07:55,160 --> 01:07:57,360
Speaker 1: you think about what the girls wanted to say and

1086
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:03,680
Speaker 1: how they felt. You know. That's the one thing I

1087
01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:08,640
Speaker 1: didn't ask you. What is and especially for you because

1088
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:13,160
Speaker 1: there's there's so much freaking output and volumes of work

1089
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:17,400
Speaker 1: that you have. What is your daily routine? Do you

1090
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:19,280
Speaker 1: wake up at six in the morning? Do you always

1091
01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:23,120
Speaker 1: keep a dictaphone on you at all times? Are you

1092
01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 1: singing and you have a bunch of answer machine messages

1093
01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:30,800
Speaker 1: of basin? Sometime sometimes I do that, but then most

1094
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:32,680
Speaker 1: of the time not because I don't usually go back

1095
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:35,479
Speaker 1: to it. Um. I always used to feel like if

1096
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:37,920
Speaker 1: it was good enough idea, I'll remember it and it

1097
01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:41,040
Speaker 1: will come back to me. Uh So you don't know

1098
01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:50,719
Speaker 1: dictaphone from no but but but you're right, because sometimes

1099
01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:52,439
Speaker 1: come sometimes I will do it, and I'll go back

1100
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:54,960
Speaker 1: and I'll hear something that's actually was a good idea.

1101
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:59,120
Speaker 1: So looking back, I do wish I kind of had

1102
01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:01,519
Speaker 1: some somethings because I would remember things. But it's not

1103
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:04,720
Speaker 1: necessarily the process. The process is usually just getting in

1104
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:07,040
Speaker 1: a room and and if it's co writing, if it's

1105
01:09:07,080 --> 01:09:09,320
Speaker 1: game with people, it's it's the moment and it's the

1106
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:12,560
Speaker 1: and just thinking of the who we're writing for and

1107
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:15,840
Speaker 1: what the story is and and uh and and you

1108
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:20,160
Speaker 1: go there. It's I think so much has has had

1109
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:22,800
Speaker 1: to do with my growing up and being in love

1110
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:28,000
Speaker 1: throughout from kindergarten on and always having a heart and

1111
01:09:28,240 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 1: and being willing to be in love when to be

1112
01:09:30,280 --> 01:09:32,439
Speaker 1: loved and broken hearts and all that stuff. My hearts

1113
01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:35,080
Speaker 1: were always being broke by girls that didn't even know

1114
01:09:35,160 --> 01:09:39,439
Speaker 1: they broke my hearts because I they didn't even because

1115
01:09:39,439 --> 01:09:45,040
Speaker 1: I never so but it was but it was like

1116
01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:47,400
Speaker 1: the whole round of new Boat thing was a major

1117
01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:48,640
Speaker 1: thing for me because this is a girl I had

1118
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:50,479
Speaker 1: like a crush on the sixth grade, went all the

1119
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:52,400
Speaker 1: way up to eighth grade, and so she was like

1120
01:09:52,479 --> 01:09:55,160
Speaker 1: my first kiss and my first disc and it was like,

1121
01:09:55,880 --> 01:09:58,920
Speaker 1: um so it was major and like after that, so

1122
01:09:59,160 --> 01:10:02,679
Speaker 1: I wrote my first song about her, and I wrote

1123
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:06,439
Speaker 1: my first really sad song after her as well. So

1124
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:08,640
Speaker 1: it's like here I go, falling in love to the

1125
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:12,040
Speaker 1: Bitter Taste of Life. So it was like, yeah, wrote

1126
01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:19,519
Speaker 1: the Bitter Taste of Life. Can I ask you a question,

1127
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:23,559
Speaker 1: do you find it easier or do you find actually rather,

1128
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:26,320
Speaker 1: do you find like your love songs to be better

1129
01:10:26,479 --> 01:10:31,479
Speaker 1: than your breakup songs or vice versa? You know, like,

1130
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:36,519
Speaker 1: what's more, it's the same, the same. Yeah, it's it's all.

1131
01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:39,560
Speaker 1: It's all about the heart. So whether it's love or

1132
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:44,240
Speaker 1: broken hearts, it's all comes from the same place. I

1133
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:46,960
Speaker 1: want to ask you about the Bobby Don't Be Cruel

1134
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:48,920
Speaker 1: album when you say you heard him, you know he

1135
01:10:49,040 --> 01:10:51,320
Speaker 1: just didn't care and you know he missed a note

1136
01:10:51,360 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 1: and you just heard that attitude. Uh, did y'all comes

1137
01:10:54,439 --> 01:10:57,160
Speaker 1: in with the songs already done or did y'all do

1138
01:10:57,320 --> 01:11:01,519
Speaker 1: it together? Um? The songs were kind of already done.

1139
01:11:01,600 --> 01:11:04,439
Speaker 1: There were songs that I had written, like like, there's

1140
01:11:04,479 --> 01:11:10,240
Speaker 1: a whole story on RONI Man, remind you know every

1141
01:11:10,280 --> 01:11:14,280
Speaker 1: little step, Yeah, yeah, let's go there, Let's go there

1142
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:19,479
Speaker 1: is their virgin every little step with Ralph singing lead.

1143
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:23,080
Speaker 1: So that all that was a lot. It's not a

1144
01:11:23,160 --> 01:11:29,439
Speaker 1: complete lot you've heard, I've heard it is a complete lie. Alright.

1145
01:11:31,720 --> 01:11:37,519
Speaker 1: That's like se Roni was. That song was old by

1146
01:11:37,560 --> 01:11:40,040
Speaker 1: the time it came out, right, it was well, yeah,

1147
01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:42,720
Speaker 1: because this song was actually I think Roni came out

1148
01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:49,280
Speaker 1: in eight and it was written in eighty two. It

1149
01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:54,080
Speaker 1: was written on the uh Luther Debarce tour, Oh wow,

1150
01:11:54,439 --> 01:11:59,280
Speaker 1: because we were We went to Miami and uh, they

1151
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:01,720
Speaker 1: wouldn't let us on that show for some reason. I

1152
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:03,720
Speaker 1: don't know why. I'm still a little hurt about it.

1153
01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:08,080
Speaker 1: And uh, but and so we had to go play

1154
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:10,640
Speaker 1: a skating rink when nobody came because they were all

1155
01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:13,759
Speaker 1: at the Lutheran to Bar show. So that show got canceled,

1156
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:15,360
Speaker 1: and so we thought, okay, what we're gonna do. So

1157
01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:18,680
Speaker 1: we took our tour bus and parked outside of the

1158
01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:23,920
Speaker 1: the arena and we had d stand out front because

1159
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:27,600
Speaker 1: d was our official lead singer, light skinned dude, and

1160
01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:31,519
Speaker 1: and so he would he could pull the girls in.

1161
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:35,040
Speaker 1: And so we stood there and uh kept the door open,

1162
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:36,760
Speaker 1: and then girls would come by and coming that the

1163
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:38,240
Speaker 1: bars and now it's not the bars that did. We

1164
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:39,920
Speaker 1: were supposed to be on show, but we could didn't

1165
01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:42,840
Speaker 1: make it here on time. So um, they come and

1166
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:44,240
Speaker 1: they said, well, you know, we have a little after

1167
01:12:44,320 --> 01:12:46,519
Speaker 1: party over at the hotel. You guys won't come to

1168
01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:49,439
Speaker 1: the hotel and stuff and stay fine. So a few

1169
01:12:49,479 --> 01:12:52,000
Speaker 1: girls got on, and there was one particular girl that

1170
01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 1: got on. It was like very sweet girl. And I said, wow,

1171
01:12:56,520 --> 01:12:59,720
Speaker 1: she's she's a nice girl. And so we got to

1172
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:04,320
Speaker 1: the tell. Um. I don't know how this happened, but Daryl,

1173
01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:07,040
Speaker 1: for some reason, Darrell had already met somebody in and

1174
01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:09,519
Speaker 1: I was rooming with him, and he said, so I'm

1175
01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:13,599
Speaker 1: gonna need the room for a little bit, and uh,

1176
01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:16,160
Speaker 1: so I couldn't go to my room. So I was

1177
01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:19,080
Speaker 1: sitting in the lob before a while and different girls

1178
01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:20,960
Speaker 1: who come by and they go upstairs and stuff. And

1179
01:13:20,960 --> 01:13:24,840
Speaker 1: then this one girl comes in and I sit with

1180
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:27,519
Speaker 1: her and I'm sitting there. She comes in. We sit

1181
01:13:27,560 --> 01:13:31,200
Speaker 1: down and start talking and um, talking about life and

1182
01:13:31,880 --> 01:13:35,080
Speaker 1: and um she lives in Miami and who been really

1183
01:13:35,200 --> 01:13:38,000
Speaker 1: nice talking And then all of a sudden d comes downstairs.

1184
01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:40,439
Speaker 1: He said, oh, there you are. I was looking for you.

1185
01:13:40,520 --> 01:13:46,080
Speaker 1: Didn't know you, he was gonna so he grabs her. So,

1186
01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:50,240
Speaker 1: so he's going upstairs with her. I'm sitting there by myself.

1187
01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:59,840
Speaker 1: So about ten minutes later, she comes running downstairs. She

1188
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:03,000
Speaker 1: comes running downstairs, and she goes and she's going, oh

1189
01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:06,439
Speaker 1: my god, oh my god. And uh. And I said

1190
01:14:06,479 --> 01:14:08,120
Speaker 1: what he said? I got in there, and he's like,

1191
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:10,000
Speaker 1: you know, he's all over me and this and none.

1192
01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:12,360
Speaker 1: And I said, well, what do you expect. You don't

1193
01:14:12,439 --> 01:14:14,559
Speaker 1: know him. You should go go to his room that easily.

1194
01:14:14,600 --> 01:14:16,479
Speaker 1: She said, well, I thought he was a nicy. He

1195
01:14:16,520 --> 01:14:19,240
Speaker 1: thought he's gonna be at least nice like you. I said, well,

1196
01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:24,360
Speaker 1: I said so. So we're sitting there and then finally

1197
01:14:24,439 --> 01:14:26,599
Speaker 1: Darrel comes downstairs and he leaves the room. And I said,

1198
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:29,800
Speaker 1: you know, I've been sitting down here forever, so I'm

1199
01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:31,400
Speaker 1: really kind of tired. I'm gonna go ahead and go

1200
01:14:31,560 --> 01:14:33,680
Speaker 1: to my room. She says, well, but I'm stick here

1201
01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:36,320
Speaker 1: by myself. I said sorry. She says, what do you

1202
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:40,519
Speaker 1: mind if I come to you? So I said, okay,

1203
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:42,599
Speaker 1: you can come up. So we go up. We sit

1204
01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:48,439
Speaker 1: and we talked about all my children and uh and uh,

1205
01:14:49,160 --> 01:14:51,840
Speaker 1: and then she says, you know says you're in. If

1206
01:14:51,880 --> 01:14:53,639
Speaker 1: you're here in town tomorrow, we can I can show

1207
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:56,280
Speaker 1: you around. I said sure. And then finally she gets

1208
01:14:56,280 --> 01:14:58,320
Speaker 1: a knock on the do it from her her friend

1209
01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:02,000
Speaker 1: that was there and another exactly, and she says, I'm

1210
01:15:02,040 --> 01:15:05,040
Speaker 1: ready to go. So okay, So I decided I'm gonna

1211
01:15:05,080 --> 01:15:09,280
Speaker 1: walk her downstairs. As I'm walking her downstairs, then d

1212
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:13,920
Speaker 1: steps out and he says, what is this. This ain't right,

1213
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:15,920
Speaker 1: This ain't right in some of the other choice words,

1214
01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:20,280
Speaker 1: and uh and says this Jacoby stuff gotta stop. And

1215
01:15:20,600 --> 01:15:29,800
Speaker 1: uh so Jacoby exactly. Now, I'll explain Jacoby. Now, Jacoby

1216
01:15:30,479 --> 01:15:37,840
Speaker 1: was a character on All My Children. I love it

1217
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 1: a lot. We need a baby faces that this episode

1218
01:15:41,360 --> 01:15:48,439
Speaker 1: we never get the night. So Jacoby was It got

1219
01:15:48,520 --> 01:15:51,479
Speaker 1: named Steve Jacoby who actually broke up Cliff and Nina

1220
01:15:51,960 --> 01:15:56,559
Speaker 1: and Cliff and and and Cliff and Nina they would

1221
01:15:56,600 --> 01:16:00,240
Speaker 1: never get broke up, but Jacoby actuertained between. And so

1222
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:02,760
Speaker 1: the word was if some if you was with the girl,

1223
01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:05,240
Speaker 1: and then you have to be worried about getting Jakobe

1224
01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:07,320
Speaker 1: because one of the guys might take your girl in

1225
01:16:07,400 --> 01:16:11,120
Speaker 1: a second. And it was it was rampant it was rampant,

1226
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:13,160
Speaker 1: and so people were kind of scared. You know, you

1227
01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:14,639
Speaker 1: kind of like you have to hide your girls because

1228
01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:18,080
Speaker 1: you didn't want somebody to come in and take your girl. Exactly.

1229
01:16:18,120 --> 01:16:22,400
Speaker 1: That's funny. We were saying, New Jersey, drive to Kobe.

1230
01:16:22,760 --> 01:16:26,720
Speaker 1: So New Jersey. So he's out there, he's out there.

1231
01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:28,840
Speaker 1: He goes, Oh, this this stuff gotta stop. This is wrong.

1232
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:31,479
Speaker 1: That's wrong, you know, And we need a meeting tomorrow.

1233
01:16:31,520 --> 01:16:33,280
Speaker 1: We need to have a meeting. So the next day

1234
01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:38,080
Speaker 1: we had a bad meeting, and uh, we had about

1235
01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:41,720
Speaker 1: to Kobe and so so it came up. So it

1236
01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:43,720
Speaker 1: came up, Yeah, this gotta stuff that sold j Kobe.

1237
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:46,639
Speaker 1: Stuff is like it's it's it's getting out of hands,

1238
01:16:46,680 --> 01:16:50,320
Speaker 1: getting out of hand. And so uh and I stopped

1239
01:16:50,320 --> 01:16:52,240
Speaker 1: and I said, wait a minute, I didn't. I didn't, Jakobe.

1240
01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:57,680
Speaker 1: You first of all, um, this girl, this girl is

1241
01:16:57,720 --> 01:17:04,439
Speaker 1: sweet and and she's a rony and and and you know,

1242
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:06,320
Speaker 1: this is the kind of girl if you treat it right,

1243
01:17:06,800 --> 01:17:15,200
Speaker 1: you know, right, I mean the truth about a little

1244
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:19,040
Speaker 1: girl and bag. And then bang it hit me right there.

1245
01:17:19,040 --> 01:17:22,240
Speaker 1: And I went upstairs right after that meeting on my

1246
01:17:22,360 --> 01:17:32,799
Speaker 1: prophet uh team and wrote, ron dude, that was amazing.

1247
01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:40,040
Speaker 1: Gods years later that ended up being with the word

1248
01:17:40,200 --> 01:17:43,920
Speaker 1: ronan was an old word at that point, but how

1249
01:17:43,920 --> 01:17:47,360
Speaker 1: about James Ingram made it up? So it was an

1250
01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:50,120
Speaker 1: old word at that particular point. But then you know

1251
01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:54,280
Speaker 1: it was used again and uh um, because I said

1252
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:57,120
Speaker 1: if if if a word just sounds good, feels good,

1253
01:17:57,120 --> 01:17:59,920
Speaker 1: you can use it again and again and as a man,

1254
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:02,760
Speaker 1: the fact that I used it again and can we

1255
01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:07,479
Speaker 1: talk and Tevin Campbell said no, that were was old.

1256
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:14,320
Speaker 1: Watch just like so you can use them again. I see.

1257
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:20,640
Speaker 1: So the I guess the phenomenon that was don't be

1258
01:18:20,760 --> 01:18:26,320
Speaker 1: cruel Um. I mean, no one, no one saw that

1259
01:18:26,439 --> 01:18:31,439
Speaker 1: coming never. Uh how did that change? Like what do

1260
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:37,680
Speaker 1: you feel your moment was? Like, w we arrived? Like

1261
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:39,720
Speaker 1: was it with that record? Was it? I think I

1262
01:18:39,840 --> 01:18:41,519
Speaker 1: think it was a lot with that record. It was

1263
01:18:41,640 --> 01:18:43,880
Speaker 1: it was a lot with Bobby to watch it happened

1264
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:47,360
Speaker 1: for Bobby because see Bobby was an underdog at that

1265
01:18:47,439 --> 01:18:51,839
Speaker 1: particular point, and so we were I think in North Carolina,

1266
01:18:51,920 --> 01:18:53,479
Speaker 1: we were at the show in North Carolina. They did

1267
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:57,840
Speaker 1: that tour where it was Bobby and um addition, and

1268
01:18:57,920 --> 01:19:01,840
Speaker 1: I'll be sure Bobby opened the show in six months

1269
01:19:01,880 --> 01:19:05,760
Speaker 1: maybe less, Bobby was closing the show. So I was

1270
01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:09,639
Speaker 1: there and we were there this show where Bobby had

1271
01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:12,280
Speaker 1: already been on and no one was there. And then

1272
01:19:12,360 --> 01:19:14,519
Speaker 1: we walked in on the side of the stage while

1273
01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:17,040
Speaker 1: I'll be Sure it was on the stage, and Bobby

1274
01:19:17,080 --> 01:19:21,080
Speaker 1: walks out and this whole side starts losing it and

1275
01:19:21,160 --> 01:19:24,800
Speaker 1: I'll be Sure thinks since thinking of him, But it

1276
01:19:24,920 --> 01:19:28,479
Speaker 1: was Bobby Brown just standing off to the side. So

1277
01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:32,840
Speaker 1: Chris Rock has a story where he was with I'll

1278
01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:35,800
Speaker 1: be Sure the first moment that I'll be Sure heard

1279
01:19:35,840 --> 01:19:41,400
Speaker 1: that Don't Be Cruel album. Yeah, like literally there in

1280
01:19:41,439 --> 01:19:44,240
Speaker 1: the back of the tour bus, and Chris Rock is like,

1281
01:19:44,360 --> 01:19:48,040
Speaker 1: I literally seen I'll be Sure watch his career go away.

1282
01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:51,720
Speaker 1: By the time Side two came on, he was like deflated,

1283
01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:55,599
Speaker 1: like this whole body language. Well, look, it was a lot,

1284
01:19:56,760 --> 01:19:58,400
Speaker 1: it was a lot of the material, but it was

1285
01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:03,600
Speaker 1: really the the thing about Bobby Brown. He was and

1286
01:20:03,800 --> 01:20:06,880
Speaker 1: still to this day, I don't think I've seen a

1287
01:20:06,960 --> 01:20:11,360
Speaker 1: performer like Bobby Brown like he was in the earliest prime.

1288
01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:15,080
Speaker 1: He's like a like a fighter, like like Muhammad Ali

1289
01:20:15,200 --> 01:20:19,240
Speaker 1: and his prime. There still I haven't seen any artists

1290
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:23,719
Speaker 1: have that thing that he had about himself, UM swag.

1291
01:20:25,040 --> 01:20:27,200
Speaker 1: It was. Yeah, it's amazing because we're not We're not

1292
01:20:27,280 --> 01:20:29,800
Speaker 1: talking about the best singer in the world, you know, um,

1293
01:20:30,680 --> 01:20:34,000
Speaker 1: but we're talking about an entertainer and who owned it

1294
01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:37,760
Speaker 1: and uh and that was so we got more than

1295
01:20:37,840 --> 01:20:39,840
Speaker 1: we bargained for it, you know, out of it. We

1296
01:20:40,640 --> 01:20:44,120
Speaker 1: I think we helped him finding himself in that in

1297
01:20:44,200 --> 01:20:47,120
Speaker 1: that way. Did you watch that New Addition special? Seeing

1298
01:20:47,120 --> 01:20:49,479
Speaker 1: a lot of truth in some of the Yeah, I

1299
01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:52,840
Speaker 1: did the music. Was about to say, your executive, what

1300
01:20:52,960 --> 01:20:56,200
Speaker 1: does that unentail? Like? Well, we do and jam and

1301
01:20:56,280 --> 01:20:59,360
Speaker 1: Lewis have a meetings about stuff they handled, like the

1302
01:20:59,400 --> 01:21:01,080
Speaker 1: stuff most of the stuff they did, and I did

1303
01:21:01,160 --> 01:21:03,919
Speaker 1: all the all the other things I did the earlier

1304
01:21:04,640 --> 01:21:07,240
Speaker 1: UM New Edition stuff to you know, the UM with

1305
01:21:07,360 --> 01:21:09,439
Speaker 1: the kids stuff and then all the Bobby Brown and

1306
01:21:09,680 --> 01:21:14,080
Speaker 1: Johnny stuff as well. Um. Briefly, I want you to

1307
01:21:14,439 --> 01:21:19,200
Speaker 1: uh talk about the boys because whenever they were on

1308
01:21:19,439 --> 01:21:23,000
Speaker 1: television like our Sening or whatever show, I always felt

1309
01:21:23,000 --> 01:21:26,520
Speaker 1: that they were like way more. They were definitely intelligent

1310
01:21:26,640 --> 01:21:30,920
Speaker 1: beyond the kids group, the Sons of Light, what they

1311
01:21:31,160 --> 01:21:35,800
Speaker 1: what they were that's what they were. Yeah. Really they're

1312
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:38,920
Speaker 1: like in Africa, I believe somewhere and like they're they've

1313
01:21:38,920 --> 01:21:41,439
Speaker 1: been there for like last fifteen years. I did not

1314
01:21:41,640 --> 01:21:44,959
Speaker 1: know that Kyrie, the oldest one, he ended up producing.

1315
01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:46,800
Speaker 1: I want to say he did some stuff on like

1316
01:21:46,920 --> 01:21:49,920
Speaker 1: the solo album The Gem. I mean, we can ask

1317
01:21:49,960 --> 01:21:52,160
Speaker 1: them about, but he did some co production on there.

1318
01:21:52,880 --> 01:21:55,479
Speaker 1: I can you did some actually belout to No, I

1319
01:21:55,640 --> 01:21:57,640
Speaker 1: can not on that, but he just did a lot

1320
01:21:57,640 --> 01:22:00,000
Speaker 1: of production work. Because I was gonna say, what happened

1321
01:22:00,000 --> 01:22:03,560
Speaker 1: of those guys because if you don't know, now you know,

1322
01:22:06,439 --> 01:22:09,080
Speaker 1: yeah we can. I guess we could just start cherry

1323
01:22:09,120 --> 01:22:16,040
Speaker 1: picking our favorites because there's so many ask about the boys. Okay,

1324
01:22:16,120 --> 01:22:18,800
Speaker 1: what was it? I mean, was it just like here's

1325
01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:24,120
Speaker 1: your song get out or I'm just saying at this

1326
01:22:24,240 --> 01:22:28,800
Speaker 1: point of turning into a machine. But they were at

1327
01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:31,479
Speaker 1: the very beginning. So when when when we got the deal,

1328
01:22:32,160 --> 01:22:33,840
Speaker 1: when we started working with him, because that was through

1329
01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:36,519
Speaker 1: it was through Motown and it was kind of a

1330
01:22:36,600 --> 01:22:40,599
Speaker 1: favor to shaff Dickerson, you know, since I got this kids,

1331
01:22:40,640 --> 01:22:44,120
Speaker 1: this kid group, and you know they could sing okay, uh,

1332
01:22:44,280 --> 01:22:48,880
Speaker 1: they needed um. They wasn't you know, they weren't the

1333
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:52,120
Speaker 1: Jackson five when nobody everybody's always looking for Michael when

1334
01:22:52,120 --> 01:22:54,760
Speaker 1: there wasn't really a Michael there. But they had those

1335
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:59,600
Speaker 1: kid voices that like, you know, um, just required just

1336
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:02,600
Speaker 1: are the right kind of thing. And and I always

1337
01:23:02,680 --> 01:23:04,479
Speaker 1: wanted to work with like new addition and wanted to

1338
01:23:04,520 --> 01:23:07,080
Speaker 1: write new edition records. So that was my chance to

1339
01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:09,200
Speaker 1: kind of like do a new new addition to kind

1340
01:23:09,240 --> 01:23:11,960
Speaker 1: of songs and and uh and so you know the

1341
01:23:12,240 --> 01:23:17,280
Speaker 1: whole down in my heart and exactly there was and um,

1342
01:23:17,520 --> 01:23:19,240
Speaker 1: it was fun too. It was it was fun to

1343
01:23:19,280 --> 01:23:23,560
Speaker 1: do it, and we didn't The funny thing is that

1344
01:23:23,720 --> 01:23:26,200
Speaker 1: we don't. I don't think we were ever thinking as

1345
01:23:26,280 --> 01:23:28,640
Speaker 1: we were doing these things that everything was going to

1346
01:23:28,760 --> 01:23:31,600
Speaker 1: turn to a massive hit. Uh. There was on a

1347
01:23:31,720 --> 01:23:33,840
Speaker 1: point I think maybe we would have had a different

1348
01:23:33,880 --> 01:23:35,720
Speaker 1: attitude with things, but we were always kind of like

1349
01:23:35,840 --> 01:23:40,120
Speaker 1: so happy that things worked and felt blessed that it

1350
01:23:40,280 --> 01:23:42,400
Speaker 1: wasn't really anything where we were popping up, you know,

1351
01:23:42,520 --> 01:23:45,679
Speaker 1: chest out about anything because we were all like, really, whoa,

1352
01:23:46,360 --> 01:23:49,040
Speaker 1: that's nice and then we were working on the next thing.

1353
01:23:49,160 --> 01:23:52,160
Speaker 1: So we never stopped to time to be like not

1354
01:23:52,360 --> 01:23:55,960
Speaker 1: to Okay, what was the division of labor between you

1355
01:23:56,040 --> 01:23:58,640
Speaker 1: and l A in the studio? Who did what? I

1356
01:23:58,760 --> 01:24:01,880
Speaker 1: was mostly the writer and Um. Sometimes I might do

1357
01:24:01,960 --> 01:24:03,960
Speaker 1: a drum track and I might start to create, but

1358
01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:07,479
Speaker 1: usually I would I would kind of get things started,

1359
01:24:07,520 --> 01:24:09,760
Speaker 1: and then I might come up and and do the

1360
01:24:09,800 --> 01:24:12,960
Speaker 1: drums on it. Then I would have a lot of

1361
01:24:13,000 --> 01:24:14,680
Speaker 1: the song kind of figured out in terms of the

1362
01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:16,479
Speaker 1: writing of it, than him and Darrel would come and

1363
01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:18,960
Speaker 1: help me finish it up. And in terms of like

1364
01:24:19,160 --> 01:24:21,760
Speaker 1: recording the vocals and the vocal production would have that

1365
01:24:22,160 --> 01:24:24,479
Speaker 1: would be that could be either one of us. Um

1366
01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:26,719
Speaker 1: and Darrel helped a lot in terms of vocal production

1367
01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:30,639
Speaker 1: as well. How much patience do you have to have? Now? Okay,

1368
01:24:31,000 --> 01:24:34,000
Speaker 1: let's take all right. You guys didn't knocked out right,

1369
01:24:35,320 --> 01:24:37,280
Speaker 1: you would have these paul I do as an example. No, no, no,

1370
01:24:37,520 --> 01:24:39,160
Speaker 1: I'm just saying I'm trying to get a hard example.

1371
01:24:39,240 --> 01:24:44,120
Speaker 1: So pre pro tools, how hard was it to coach

1372
01:24:44,360 --> 01:24:47,320
Speaker 1: her through that? I mean today, I'm certain that you

1373
01:24:47,360 --> 01:24:50,639
Speaker 1: could have knocked that song out vocally in in two

1374
01:24:50,720 --> 01:24:55,240
Speaker 1: hours with today's technology and whatnot. But it was work

1375
01:24:55,920 --> 01:25:00,280
Speaker 1: and Um and more than anything was working trying to

1376
01:25:00,680 --> 01:25:03,519
Speaker 1: keep give her confidence that she could do it. She

1377
01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:05,600
Speaker 1: she didn't have a lot of confidence in it. And

1378
01:25:06,200 --> 01:25:09,560
Speaker 1: and l A really have to give it to l A.

1379
01:25:09,640 --> 01:25:11,680
Speaker 1: He's kind of really stayed with her and worked on

1380
01:25:11,760 --> 01:25:14,000
Speaker 1: it too to get it where it got to. But

1381
01:25:14,160 --> 01:25:17,280
Speaker 1: she was she wasn't a confident, you know, artist to

1382
01:25:17,360 --> 01:25:20,000
Speaker 1: begin with them. Okay, So the recording habits of some

1383
01:25:20,120 --> 01:25:25,920
Speaker 1: of your clients, your clientele, like, is it like the

1384
01:25:26,080 --> 01:25:28,200
Speaker 1: lights have to be totally off for the room has

1385
01:25:28,240 --> 01:25:31,479
Speaker 1: to be totally clear. For for Paula's nobody. You can't

1386
01:25:31,479 --> 01:25:34,320
Speaker 1: even look at me, you know, you know, and and

1387
01:25:34,439 --> 01:25:36,519
Speaker 1: that's understandable and something. And there are some people like

1388
01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:38,240
Speaker 1: that are great singers like turn the lights out. I

1389
01:25:38,280 --> 01:25:39,760
Speaker 1: don't want to see you. I don't want you to

1390
01:25:39,800 --> 01:25:44,320
Speaker 1: see me it you know, it doesn't You kind of

1391
01:25:44,400 --> 01:25:46,720
Speaker 1: gotta get in your own space. However, however, you get

1392
01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:49,720
Speaker 1: it done. Who's a breeze? Like you can knock that

1393
01:25:49,800 --> 01:25:52,120
Speaker 1: on the two sides, like who's your one? Take Charlie

1394
01:25:53,920 --> 01:25:58,120
Speaker 1: probably one of the best people that have ever worked

1395
01:25:58,160 --> 01:25:59,840
Speaker 1: with it is like that. I was just blown away

1396
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:01,960
Speaker 1: about how good they were and how in tune and

1397
01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:07,080
Speaker 1: tune they were Selene Dion, She's like, uh, wait a minute,

1398
01:26:07,680 --> 01:26:11,160
Speaker 1: is that is that just her thinking it? Really? Because

1399
01:26:11,200 --> 01:26:17,120
Speaker 1: she was like so on it and uh um and

1400
01:26:17,200 --> 01:26:22,960
Speaker 1: there's and and oh Brandy, Brandy is ridiculous. She's my

1401
01:26:23,080 --> 01:26:27,519
Speaker 1: favorite of all She's one of my She's just one

1402
01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:30,360
Speaker 1: of my favorite voices of all time. Uh. And then

1403
01:26:30,520 --> 01:26:32,760
Speaker 1: the way that she can move her voice and she's

1404
01:26:32,800 --> 01:26:34,439
Speaker 1: got so much heart with it. I think that she's

1405
01:26:34,800 --> 01:26:38,840
Speaker 1: one of the most underrated singers period. Salange would agree.

1406
01:26:40,880 --> 01:26:49,400
Speaker 1: So who who was challenging to record? It's far and like,

1407
01:26:49,560 --> 01:26:53,360
Speaker 1: what do you look forward to in a good vocal take?

1408
01:26:53,479 --> 01:26:56,640
Speaker 1: Like I hate in the world of production, Like I

1409
01:26:56,800 --> 01:27:01,360
Speaker 1: hate the process of vocals, Like it's like after the

1410
01:27:01,479 --> 01:27:07,120
Speaker 1: music has done, then I don't have the patience to

1411
01:27:07,200 --> 01:27:10,720
Speaker 1: babysit and sit there. And as you as time goes by,

1412
01:27:10,760 --> 01:27:12,880
Speaker 1: it does get more difficult to work with people that

1413
01:27:13,040 --> 01:27:16,120
Speaker 1: cannot sing as well and you have to put more

1414
01:27:16,200 --> 01:27:19,880
Speaker 1: work into it. Um. But you have people that are

1415
01:27:19,920 --> 01:27:21,920
Speaker 1: great singers that hate to be in the studio. Johnny

1416
01:27:21,960 --> 01:27:25,519
Speaker 1: Gail haste to be in the studio. Yeah, he so

1417
01:27:25,720 --> 01:27:28,679
Speaker 1: wants to get in and out of there. Um. She said,

1418
01:27:28,720 --> 01:27:31,439
Speaker 1: Like my mind took like five seconds to completely let

1419
01:27:31,479 --> 01:27:33,640
Speaker 1: me get out of what I gotta do. You know

1420
01:27:33,720 --> 01:27:38,160
Speaker 1: he really wants to He doesn't like recording. Um and

1421
01:27:39,520 --> 01:27:42,519
Speaker 1: and that's that's you know, Whitney didn't always love recording.

1422
01:27:42,600 --> 01:27:45,519
Speaker 1: She was like, you know what I gotta do? What face,

1423
01:27:46,280 --> 01:27:47,960
Speaker 1: what we're gonna do. Let's let's get this down, let's

1424
01:27:47,960 --> 01:27:52,200
Speaker 1: got a half hour, let's let's piget this out. Um so.

1425
01:27:52,760 --> 01:27:54,800
Speaker 1: And so that's what you try to do. You try

1426
01:27:54,840 --> 01:27:57,920
Speaker 1: to prepare it so that you know exactly what you

1427
01:27:58,000 --> 01:27:59,560
Speaker 1: need and what you need to get, and you go

1428
01:28:00,080 --> 01:28:02,800
Speaker 1: go for it. How long do you feel you need

1429
01:28:03,000 --> 01:28:09,120
Speaker 1: with an artist to hit bulls eye? I don't even

1430
01:28:09,200 --> 01:28:12,240
Speaker 1: know if your goal is to hit bulls eye? Like,

1431
01:28:12,560 --> 01:28:17,439
Speaker 1: I'm sure, at what point are you making these songs

1432
01:28:18,640 --> 01:28:23,519
Speaker 1: where you are now officially the machine, Like it's not like, okay,

1433
01:28:23,560 --> 01:28:25,320
Speaker 1: well maybe we'll get baby Face to ritis a song.

1434
01:28:25,360 --> 01:28:28,880
Speaker 1: It's like when we're getting baby Face, we expect least

1435
01:28:29,360 --> 01:28:32,560
Speaker 1: a top five hit. We expect. So it's almost like

1436
01:28:32,640 --> 01:28:35,200
Speaker 1: you gotta get a good performance out the artist, But

1437
01:28:35,240 --> 01:28:37,639
Speaker 1: then you got to satisfy the manager. And I'm sure

1438
01:28:37,760 --> 01:28:39,960
Speaker 1: the you know, I'm sure Clive or whoever the label

1439
01:28:40,000 --> 01:28:45,320
Speaker 1: president is like, what is this, um, and what's that

1440
01:28:45,439 --> 01:28:50,160
Speaker 1: pressure like on you? I always try to just make

1441
01:28:50,200 --> 01:28:54,800
Speaker 1: sure it feels good to me and and but I

1442
01:28:54,880 --> 01:29:00,519
Speaker 1: am also the kind of artist that I'll go back

1443
01:29:00,560 --> 01:29:03,519
Speaker 1: in again and again to do something, and people aren't

1444
01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:06,200
Speaker 1: happy with something that I'll fight to get it, get

1445
01:29:06,280 --> 01:29:09,360
Speaker 1: it to where they're happy for I don't I don't

1446
01:29:09,400 --> 01:29:11,760
Speaker 1: really have an ego as it relates to that. UM

1447
01:29:12,120 --> 01:29:13,880
Speaker 1: and I always tell everyone that when they walk in

1448
01:29:13,960 --> 01:29:17,160
Speaker 1: a room, UM, if they like something, that they don't

1449
01:29:17,200 --> 01:29:19,320
Speaker 1: like something, let's let me know you you can be

1450
01:29:19,560 --> 01:29:23,519
Speaker 1: totally honest. Most of the time they're not. What's an example,

1451
01:29:24,840 --> 01:29:27,600
Speaker 1: what's the example of a song that you recorded that

1452
01:29:28,000 --> 01:29:30,320
Speaker 1: the client didn't like that you have to go back

1453
01:29:30,400 --> 01:29:32,559
Speaker 1: and spruce up a little bit and then it came

1454
01:29:32,600 --> 01:29:36,400
Speaker 1: out Okay, it's not bad or I don't know that.

1455
01:29:36,520 --> 01:29:39,240
Speaker 1: I it's hard to do so many different things. I'm

1456
01:29:39,280 --> 01:29:41,519
Speaker 1: not sure because different things. We might work on it

1457
01:29:41,880 --> 01:29:45,080
Speaker 1: a lot, but um, we probably we probably worked on

1458
01:29:45,280 --> 01:29:47,920
Speaker 1: XL a little bit. You know. Uh, this is actually

1459
01:29:47,960 --> 01:29:51,760
Speaker 1: the piano that played all that um uh, that whole

1460
01:29:51,800 --> 01:29:54,760
Speaker 1: Excel album. I did it over record, planting it was

1461
01:29:54,800 --> 01:29:59,720
Speaker 1: such a good piano that I I stole it. Name

1462
01:29:59,800 --> 01:30:04,120
Speaker 1: was great feeling games he played okay, Um, But so

1463
01:30:04,479 --> 01:30:10,479
Speaker 1: I think that the whole idea of if someone if

1464
01:30:10,560 --> 01:30:14,360
Speaker 1: someone's not happy with it, then then I'm it's it's

1465
01:30:14,400 --> 01:30:15,920
Speaker 1: fine for me to go back and do it again.

1466
01:30:16,400 --> 01:30:20,920
Speaker 1: I think that Um. Probably the person I fought with,

1467
01:30:21,160 --> 01:30:27,000
Speaker 1: I fought with more than anyone. It's Tony Braxton. We

1468
01:30:27,400 --> 01:30:32,720
Speaker 1: fight really Oh yeah, yeah, I mean a place where

1469
01:30:32,720 --> 01:30:37,360
Speaker 1: you're comfortable. Yes, she can she I can fight with

1470
01:30:37,439 --> 01:30:39,360
Speaker 1: her and she'll she'll give in to me. She won't

1471
01:30:39,360 --> 01:30:41,240
Speaker 1: give in to most people, so she will give in

1472
01:30:41,320 --> 01:30:43,720
Speaker 1: to me. But but she's a fighter, has she been

1473
01:30:43,760 --> 01:30:46,240
Speaker 1: one from the beginning. Though. In the beginning I was

1474
01:30:46,280 --> 01:30:47,840
Speaker 1: able to just kind of like, this is what we're

1475
01:30:47,840 --> 01:30:50,240
Speaker 1: gonna do, and and she was like, Okay, I'm gonna

1476
01:30:50,240 --> 01:30:54,040
Speaker 1: do it. And that's why she keep making me high.

1477
01:30:54,160 --> 01:30:57,439
Speaker 1: I'm trying to guess the song that like they were

1478
01:30:57,479 --> 01:31:03,800
Speaker 1: all like number one, but your voice. No, No, we

1479
01:31:03,880 --> 01:31:08,519
Speaker 1: did that together because it was Bryce brought in. Tony

1480
01:31:08,560 --> 01:31:11,000
Speaker 1: brought the track to me. She said said, this is

1481
01:31:11,040 --> 01:31:14,080
Speaker 1: a song that we cannot figure out what to do,

1482
01:31:14,200 --> 01:31:17,360
Speaker 1: what to do with it, and so I took it

1483
01:31:17,479 --> 01:31:19,960
Speaker 1: upstairs and were the record plant. I took upstairs, I said, all,

1484
01:31:20,000 --> 01:31:24,160
Speaker 1: this is easy, and and went up and I just

1485
01:31:24,280 --> 01:31:26,760
Speaker 1: heard it and wrote it out right there, and then

1486
01:31:27,120 --> 01:31:29,160
Speaker 1: came downstairs, and then we went down and started recording,

1487
01:31:29,160 --> 01:31:31,240
Speaker 1: and then I started adding other guitars and stuff on

1488
01:31:31,280 --> 01:31:33,599
Speaker 1: it as well. So one thing I was always curious

1489
01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:36,560
Speaker 1: about in your working relationship with Tony. To me, she

1490
01:31:36,760 --> 01:31:40,559
Speaker 1: always sounded like the female version of you, like if

1491
01:31:40,600 --> 01:31:43,840
Speaker 1: you had a sister that's saying like, y'all, y'all kind

1492
01:31:43,840 --> 01:31:45,800
Speaker 1: of mirrod each other in that way. How much of

1493
01:31:45,920 --> 01:31:48,439
Speaker 1: that is her? And how much of it is the

1494
01:31:48,520 --> 01:31:51,439
Speaker 1: stuff that you were right for her because of a

1495
01:31:51,479 --> 01:31:55,040
Speaker 1: little ranger. Yeah, just yeah, just the voice. And I

1496
01:31:55,120 --> 01:31:59,280
Speaker 1: mean she just sounded like, yeah, it could be him,

1497
01:31:59,320 --> 01:32:00,840
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? So how much of that

1498
01:32:01,000 --> 01:32:04,600
Speaker 1: is her versus you? Um? I think, I mean, we

1499
01:32:04,720 --> 01:32:10,280
Speaker 1: obviously helped guide her to finding that voice. Uh, when

1500
01:32:10,360 --> 01:32:14,680
Speaker 1: we did the Boomerang project. Um, that's where Tony was

1501
01:32:14,840 --> 01:32:18,559
Speaker 1: kind of discovered. She discovered by doing songs that weren't her.

1502
01:32:18,640 --> 01:32:21,600
Speaker 1: Songs like God Loves Should Have Brought You Home was

1503
01:32:21,640 --> 01:32:26,960
Speaker 1: written for Anita Baker. Yikes. Yeah, they at movie to

1504
01:32:27,040 --> 01:32:32,360
Speaker 1: talk about that, and she didn't. Um Anita didn't want

1505
01:32:32,400 --> 01:32:35,240
Speaker 1: to do it. And so when when Tony sing it,

1506
01:32:36,000 --> 01:32:37,920
Speaker 1: she you know, I told Tony to sing it like

1507
01:32:38,000 --> 01:32:44,400
Speaker 1: she had water in her mouth? Has she seen that

1508
01:32:44,520 --> 01:32:46,560
Speaker 1: scene before she sang that song? Did she see that

1509
01:32:46,680 --> 01:32:49,400
Speaker 1: sing before she saw sang the song? That sounds she

1510
01:32:49,439 --> 01:32:52,160
Speaker 1: didn't see that. I saw the scene, that's what. Yeah.

1511
01:32:52,560 --> 01:32:54,519
Speaker 1: I saw that scene as oh my god, should have

1512
01:32:54,560 --> 01:32:58,120
Speaker 1: brought your ass home. That was almost like a gift

1513
01:32:58,160 --> 01:33:00,240
Speaker 1: to your Yeah. Right after sing that scene and went

1514
01:33:00,280 --> 01:33:01,760
Speaker 1: over the l A souse and wrote that song with

1515
01:33:01,840 --> 01:33:05,320
Speaker 1: the boson we went because it was perfect, perfect words

1516
01:33:06,080 --> 01:33:10,080
Speaker 1: um and then um um you mean the World to

1517
01:33:10,160 --> 01:33:13,000
Speaker 1: Me was another one that was written for and maybe

1518
01:33:13,040 --> 01:33:15,880
Speaker 1: I get this one on and need it. Oh my god,

1519
01:33:17,680 --> 01:33:21,639
Speaker 1: now I see it. I can see it. So Tony's

1520
01:33:21,640 --> 01:33:25,679
Speaker 1: whole first record was uh Anita Bigger Demo and actually

1521
01:33:26,000 --> 01:33:31,599
Speaker 1: another set love song was written initially for TLC. Okay,

1522
01:33:31,600 --> 01:33:34,320
Speaker 1: I can see that, Yeah, I can see that. I

1523
01:33:34,400 --> 01:33:39,160
Speaker 1: can totally. Chili. Yeah, Chili was mad. I would have

1524
01:33:39,200 --> 01:33:40,880
Speaker 1: been if I was heard. Yeah, but I'm glad as

1525
01:33:40,880 --> 01:33:44,360
Speaker 1: a consumer, not mad. Did they not want the song

1526
01:33:44,640 --> 01:33:49,160
Speaker 1: or I'm good for taking a song and putting it

1527
01:33:49,240 --> 01:33:58,240
Speaker 1: on somebody else. The song comes first, comes first. What

1528
01:33:58,560 --> 01:34:02,479
Speaker 1: what do you not regret? But what other notable trade

1529
01:34:02,520 --> 01:34:06,320
Speaker 1: offs were there? Well, there was one song that almost

1530
01:34:06,400 --> 01:34:10,519
Speaker 1: didn't happen because it was voted to be off the

1531
01:34:10,600 --> 01:34:14,439
Speaker 1: record and it became one of their biggest songs. Um

1532
01:34:15,960 --> 01:34:19,960
Speaker 1: and they had actually everywhere recorded it and they said, uh.

1533
01:34:20,120 --> 01:34:25,160
Speaker 1: And then I got a call from they hit of

1534
01:34:25,200 --> 01:34:28,880
Speaker 1: the record company saying, look, they had a meeting and

1535
01:34:28,960 --> 01:34:30,840
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but I'm gonna try to find for us

1536
01:34:30,880 --> 01:34:32,760
Speaker 1: if I can change. But the song got voted off.

1537
01:34:32,880 --> 01:34:35,439
Speaker 1: So what was the song? The song was I'll Make

1538
01:34:35,520 --> 01:34:47,200
Speaker 1: Love to You. No, they didn't like it. They felt

1539
01:34:47,240 --> 01:34:48,960
Speaker 1: they felt like it was felt like it was too

1540
01:34:49,200 --> 01:34:52,400
Speaker 1: similar to like end of the road. They didn't want

1541
01:34:52,400 --> 01:34:54,160
Speaker 1: to go down the same road. That's what now, that's

1542
01:34:54,200 --> 01:34:59,040
Speaker 1: what Gerald Buzzby told me. What and then he then

1543
01:34:59,120 --> 01:35:01,959
Speaker 1: he called me and said, well, I made an executive

1544
01:35:02,000 --> 01:35:04,120
Speaker 1: call and I kept it on there. Thank God for

1545
01:35:04,200 --> 01:35:08,479
Speaker 1: that executive right. But is it still I wonder in

1546
01:35:08,560 --> 01:35:14,479
Speaker 1: their minds, is it's still regrets like they got them paychecks? Uh? No, no,

1547
01:35:15,560 --> 01:35:21,360
Speaker 1: you know, I mean they were once but yeah, but

1548
01:35:21,560 --> 01:35:23,479
Speaker 1: that is that is the thing. What started happening was

1549
01:35:25,680 --> 01:35:27,360
Speaker 1: is that artists start to see that wait a minute,

1550
01:35:27,439 --> 01:35:30,600
Speaker 1: money is in the right. So everybody wanted to be

1551
01:35:30,680 --> 01:35:34,000
Speaker 1: a part of that instead and um, so they wanted

1552
01:35:34,040 --> 01:35:36,639
Speaker 1: to write with you. They want to just write period.

1553
01:35:36,680 --> 01:35:39,479
Speaker 1: They wanted to make sure that it might what probably happened.

1554
01:35:39,760 --> 01:35:43,760
Speaker 1: It was one of their songs that one, and you know,

1555
01:35:44,160 --> 01:35:47,439
Speaker 1: something had to something had to go. And so I

1556
01:35:48,120 --> 01:35:50,320
Speaker 1: get how you can how they can get to that point,

1557
01:35:50,400 --> 01:35:53,960
Speaker 1: but it's hard to call what what were your feelings

1558
01:35:54,120 --> 01:35:59,720
Speaker 1: of into the route as far as the domination and

1559
01:36:00,000 --> 01:36:04,240
Speaker 1: and breaking Elvis's records and how god the week week

1560
01:36:04,800 --> 01:36:08,360
Speaker 1: like at this point, I was like religiously reading Billboard

1561
01:36:08,479 --> 01:36:13,680
Speaker 1: just so to see all these like these uh like

1562
01:36:13,840 --> 01:36:25,479
Speaker 1: these fundans like speak of two more weeks. Um, Like,

1563
01:36:26,600 --> 01:36:29,479
Speaker 1: are you numb by this point or do you get

1564
01:36:29,560 --> 01:36:35,040
Speaker 1: excited like thet call you like like that's probably my

1565
01:36:35,240 --> 01:36:38,800
Speaker 1: problem is I never really get that excited about things

1566
01:36:38,880 --> 01:36:47,240
Speaker 1: in general. Yeah, and so so so I can only

1567
01:36:47,320 --> 01:36:51,760
Speaker 1: remember screaming. One time was when I got a check

1568
01:36:51,880 --> 01:36:58,400
Speaker 1: for UM for a song and my business manager called me,

1569
01:36:58,479 --> 01:37:01,120
Speaker 1: tell me that you gotta check FOO for uh, this

1570
01:37:01,280 --> 01:37:03,320
Speaker 1: one song you got checked for thirty five thousand. I said,

1571
01:37:03,439 --> 01:37:08,320
Speaker 1: what what you did? You say? I had never had

1572
01:37:08,600 --> 01:37:10,400
Speaker 1: got that money. And I was like, I said, oh

1573
01:37:10,520 --> 01:37:12,760
Speaker 1: my god, first, I'm gonna start doing this all the

1574
01:37:12,840 --> 01:37:18,760
Speaker 1: time now. And uh. But but other than that, the

1575
01:37:18,880 --> 01:37:22,120
Speaker 1: funny thing is that is when those things would happen,

1576
01:37:22,280 --> 01:37:25,599
Speaker 1: like into the road, and I would be very I'd

1577
01:37:25,640 --> 01:37:28,000
Speaker 1: be very happy that it happened, but I also would

1578
01:37:29,600 --> 01:37:31,760
Speaker 1: be ready to move on to the next thing. And

1579
01:37:31,960 --> 01:37:33,560
Speaker 1: and me and l A talked about this all the

1580
01:37:33,600 --> 01:37:36,280
Speaker 1: time now. We talked about we talked about how we've

1581
01:37:36,320 --> 01:37:39,960
Speaker 1: had the successes in our lives and um, and we

1582
01:37:40,120 --> 01:37:45,840
Speaker 1: missed out on them because we constantly kept working and

1583
01:37:46,040 --> 01:37:48,320
Speaker 1: didn't ever stop to smell the roses, you know, And

1584
01:37:48,520 --> 01:37:50,720
Speaker 1: it was just always just kind of like move into

1585
01:37:50,760 --> 01:37:54,519
Speaker 1: the next thing. And so so when I walked down

1586
01:37:54,560 --> 01:37:58,559
Speaker 1: the hallway and and and see and look at the work,

1587
01:37:58,920 --> 01:38:00,840
Speaker 1: a lot of the things kind of forget that you

1588
01:38:00,960 --> 01:38:02,880
Speaker 1: were even part of you just because you just because

1589
01:38:02,920 --> 01:38:08,680
Speaker 1: you're just you're in workshone and and there's and being

1590
01:38:08,760 --> 01:38:10,800
Speaker 1: respectful in terms of the artists that you work and

1591
01:38:10,840 --> 01:38:13,840
Speaker 1: stuff like, there's so many artis have come in my life,

1592
01:38:14,080 --> 01:38:16,639
Speaker 1: or I wouldn't ask for pictures, you know, say let's

1593
01:38:16,640 --> 01:38:18,080
Speaker 1: stop and do a picture. And I just feel like

1594
01:38:18,640 --> 01:38:20,720
Speaker 1: just in the work zone. Now, I wish why didn't

1595
01:38:20,720 --> 01:38:23,759
Speaker 1: I stop in Roses? Why didn't I stop and appreciate

1596
01:38:23,880 --> 01:38:26,400
Speaker 1: this moment? I'm here, I'm I'm standing with Whitney Houston.

1597
01:38:27,320 --> 01:38:29,400
Speaker 1: You know she's in here in my studio. Didn't take

1598
01:38:29,439 --> 01:38:34,200
Speaker 1: a phone? Why didn't I capture that moment? Because because

1599
01:38:34,240 --> 01:38:35,880
Speaker 1: that wasn't the kind of person that I was was

1600
01:38:35,920 --> 01:38:39,560
Speaker 1: trying to, you know, capture it for. I wasn't. I

1601
01:38:39,720 --> 01:38:41,479
Speaker 1: was into the work zone work of it, I guess.

1602
01:38:42,040 --> 01:38:45,960
Speaker 1: Speaking of which, uh, can you talk about the I'm

1603
01:38:46,040 --> 01:38:50,800
Speaker 1: Your Baby Tonight project and where it was? I mean,

1604
01:38:50,920 --> 01:38:54,280
Speaker 1: were you and and l A pulled in too? I mean,

1605
01:38:54,280 --> 01:39:00,719
Speaker 1: because by that point it was, you know, Whitney Houston

1606
01:39:01,240 --> 01:39:04,760
Speaker 1: was the largest thing in life, but to the point

1607
01:39:04,840 --> 01:39:07,439
Speaker 1: where it was turning against her, like it was we

1608
01:39:07,560 --> 01:39:09,679
Speaker 1: were was now getting booed to the Soul Trained Awards.

1609
01:39:09,720 --> 01:39:13,439
Speaker 1: We were there at the that Soul Trained Awards. We

1610
01:39:13,600 --> 01:39:18,120
Speaker 1: witnessed that, and so we we understood we were brought

1611
01:39:18,160 --> 01:39:23,760
Speaker 1: into black and n eyes her right. Um, it was

1612
01:39:23,800 --> 01:39:29,200
Speaker 1: amazing when she got booed. I understood why she got

1613
01:39:29,280 --> 01:39:33,120
Speaker 1: booed at the time, um, and which was really you

1614
01:39:33,200 --> 01:39:36,439
Speaker 1: know when when she would say think she was thank you,

1615
01:39:36,600 --> 01:39:40,280
Speaker 1: she it didn't Black people, you know, you better be thankful,

1616
01:39:41,240 --> 01:39:45,559
Speaker 1: and she didn't seem thankful. It happened. It had happened

1617
01:39:45,600 --> 01:39:48,720
Speaker 1: so much that she was gonna thank you and then

1618
01:39:48,800 --> 01:39:51,479
Speaker 1: walk home. Wait a minute, is that why she got booed?

1619
01:39:51,520 --> 01:39:54,120
Speaker 1: Was a performance? Because I can't remember, Well, she wasn't

1620
01:39:54,160 --> 01:39:56,519
Speaker 1: there the year that they really let the booze out. No,

1621
01:39:56,680 --> 01:39:59,439
Speaker 1: there was like, no, she was actually in the audience.

1622
01:40:00,400 --> 01:40:03,080
Speaker 1: She was in the audience and she got booed and

1623
01:40:03,560 --> 01:40:05,840
Speaker 1: it blew her away. We were there, she was there,

1624
01:40:05,920 --> 01:40:08,960
Speaker 1: Paves was there. We were there, and it was there. Yes,

1625
01:40:09,840 --> 01:40:12,519
Speaker 1: and it was kind of like, oh, this is kind

1626
01:40:12,520 --> 01:40:18,400
Speaker 1: of so and and and because they were kind of

1627
01:40:18,680 --> 01:40:20,880
Speaker 1: they were kind of done done with her at that time.

1628
01:40:21,520 --> 01:40:23,920
Speaker 1: It was too much. It was like at that point

1629
01:40:24,000 --> 01:40:26,320
Speaker 1: she had done everything. It was too much. And that

1630
01:40:26,479 --> 01:40:28,200
Speaker 1: was the kind of after we had we had already

1631
01:40:28,200 --> 01:40:30,680
Speaker 1: got it met her and she was that she came

1632
01:40:30,720 --> 01:40:35,400
Speaker 1: down to Atlanta to um, listen to the listen to

1633
01:40:35,479 --> 01:40:38,960
Speaker 1: the songs that we have for and played her a

1634
01:40:39,040 --> 01:40:42,000
Speaker 1: couple of records. UM played her I'm Your Baby to

1635
01:40:42,080 --> 01:40:46,360
Speaker 1: Night and played her a song called Miracle, and at

1636
01:40:46,439 --> 01:40:50,679
Speaker 1: that time she said, uh, I love I'm Your Baby

1637
01:40:50,720 --> 01:40:52,800
Speaker 1: to Night and Miracle. She said, I'm not feeling that one.

1638
01:40:53,640 --> 01:40:56,360
Speaker 1: Uh I can't relate to that. I want to ask

1639
01:40:57,080 --> 01:41:02,639
Speaker 1: so in if you're trying to Black and Eyes Whitney Houston,

1640
01:41:03,920 --> 01:41:07,760
Speaker 1: especially coming off the heels of like my of Don't

1641
01:41:07,800 --> 01:41:10,160
Speaker 1: Be Cruel album and where new Jack Swing was at

1642
01:41:10,200 --> 01:41:21,240
Speaker 1: the time, like a shuffle song. Yeah, it's so unusual.

1643
01:41:21,800 --> 01:41:23,960
Speaker 1: Like I mean, besides the way you make me feel,

1644
01:41:24,160 --> 01:41:28,280
Speaker 1: I don't I'm your Baby Tonight like the last Black

1645
01:41:28,360 --> 01:41:31,760
Speaker 1: Shuffle song that's the shuffle song. It's like more of

1646
01:41:31,800 --> 01:41:41,920
Speaker 1: a jazzy dude that things like it's condition Randy Newman

1647
01:41:42,080 --> 01:41:48,200
Speaker 1: like you made me feel think of like rounds doing

1648
01:41:48,200 --> 01:41:51,439
Speaker 1: it death Monkey, good Time, like some of that you

1649
01:41:51,520 --> 01:41:54,720
Speaker 1: two step two with the barbecue, like I'm thinking in

1650
01:41:56,000 --> 01:41:58,960
Speaker 1: like yo, like because most cats are like straight up

1651
01:41:59,200 --> 01:42:03,639
Speaker 1: using break B and guest verse from this person that person,

1652
01:42:03,720 --> 01:42:07,040
Speaker 1: you know, like like yo, I'm I'm I'm hip hop,

1653
01:42:07,280 --> 01:42:11,400
Speaker 1: you know, but y'all went to the two steps barbecue

1654
01:42:11,600 --> 01:42:15,960
Speaker 1: like was that. Was there any resistance from Clive at

1655
01:42:16,000 --> 01:42:19,040
Speaker 1: the time or was it just like because even then,

1656
01:42:19,200 --> 01:42:23,080
Speaker 1: like besides the way you made me feel like there

1657
01:42:23,200 --> 01:42:26,400
Speaker 1: was no shelf, there was no song like I'm Your

1658
01:42:26,400 --> 01:42:29,760
Speaker 1: Baby Tonight that you could even blend with, Like I mean,

1659
01:42:29,800 --> 01:42:32,439
Speaker 1: there was like a house mixed to it. But it's

1660
01:42:32,439 --> 01:42:36,000
Speaker 1: still like it's just stood out like a sore thumb.

1661
01:42:36,040 --> 01:42:38,320
Speaker 1: That's such a risk. Like what made you guys think

1662
01:42:38,439 --> 01:42:44,000
Speaker 1: like this is our lead single? It was never about

1663
01:42:44,000 --> 01:42:48,160
Speaker 1: trying to follow anybody. Um, And it was never about

1664
01:42:48,160 --> 01:42:53,800
Speaker 1: trying to lead either. It was about the song and

1665
01:42:53,920 --> 01:42:57,439
Speaker 1: that just that just happened to be a really good feeling.

1666
01:42:58,680 --> 01:43:01,080
Speaker 1: And and so as we started writing it, I don't

1667
01:43:01,400 --> 01:43:04,479
Speaker 1: it was it just it just turned into that. And

1668
01:43:04,560 --> 01:43:06,840
Speaker 1: then I started writing on top of it, and and

1669
01:43:07,040 --> 01:43:09,360
Speaker 1: that's what it turned into. And Whitney just happened to

1670
01:43:09,680 --> 01:43:13,599
Speaker 1: be the perfect person to deliver it. That songs hard

1671
01:43:13,720 --> 01:43:18,680
Speaker 1: than been a hit by anybody else, So certain songs there,

1672
01:43:19,080 --> 01:43:22,519
Speaker 1: you know, it was faded that it was Whitney. Houston

1673
01:43:22,640 --> 01:43:26,720
Speaker 1: was waiting for her that um, you know, I was

1674
01:43:26,800 --> 01:43:29,880
Speaker 1: born to to write that song, and Whitney was born

1675
01:43:29,920 --> 01:43:32,120
Speaker 1: to sing that song. And and and it made the difference.

1676
01:43:33,040 --> 01:43:35,160
Speaker 1: We we did that last part. We had to come

1677
01:43:35,240 --> 01:43:39,040
Speaker 1: up with the you know, some ad libs and uh

1678
01:43:39,240 --> 01:43:41,840
Speaker 1: and that whole ending and so we need something and

1679
01:43:42,080 --> 01:43:44,519
Speaker 1: face face right something right right, something because I gotta

1680
01:43:44,560 --> 01:43:46,360
Speaker 1: go and I don't know if she wanted to go

1681
01:43:46,439 --> 01:43:50,320
Speaker 1: somewhere to eat, and I'm there. I got so right

1682
01:43:50,400 --> 01:43:52,800
Speaker 1: something quick. So then that then I came up with

1683
01:43:52,880 --> 01:43:55,000
Speaker 1: that whole Uh looks like I'm paid on, I'm on

1684
01:43:55,200 --> 01:43:58,000
Speaker 1: the table and there hold the cause. And then and

1685
01:43:58,120 --> 01:43:59,720
Speaker 1: so that's why she was saying, let's get this over.

1686
01:43:59,760 --> 01:44:04,680
Speaker 1: They looked out on fados are we ready? And uh,

1687
01:44:05,240 --> 01:44:08,120
Speaker 1: but it is you know, I rarely go back and

1688
01:44:08,240 --> 01:44:16,080
Speaker 1: listen to things that I've done. Um, but sometimes when

1689
01:44:16,120 --> 01:44:18,400
Speaker 1: I go back, sometimes when I do. And I listened

1690
01:44:18,439 --> 01:44:22,439
Speaker 1: to Whitney singing that song. Is so amazing that the

1691
01:44:22,560 --> 01:44:24,280
Speaker 1: voice that she had and the way that she sung

1692
01:44:24,360 --> 01:44:28,679
Speaker 1: this song, it's like, um, it's I can only listen

1693
01:44:28,760 --> 01:44:31,439
Speaker 1: so much because it makes me miss her. Um But UM,

1694
01:44:33,040 --> 01:44:37,240
Speaker 1: I'm just so amazed that I feel so blessed that

1695
01:44:37,320 --> 01:44:39,720
Speaker 1: I was able to be a part of that, you know,

1696
01:44:39,840 --> 01:44:41,400
Speaker 1: and and and part of that journey and part of

1697
01:44:41,439 --> 01:44:45,839
Speaker 1: her journey that she was that it made a difference.

1698
01:44:46,160 --> 01:44:49,200
Speaker 1: It was it was nowhere as big of a record

1699
01:44:49,280 --> 01:44:51,360
Speaker 1: as the records that she had done before. She maybe

1700
01:44:51,360 --> 01:44:53,479
Speaker 1: get soil six or seven million on that one. Were

1701
01:44:53,520 --> 01:44:57,920
Speaker 1: they more believed that that happened or where normalized her?

1702
01:44:57,960 --> 01:45:01,840
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's it's sold well, but it was

1703
01:45:03,640 --> 01:45:05,880
Speaker 1: what it was. It was something that kind of normalized

1704
01:45:05,920 --> 01:45:08,840
Speaker 1: her and and and made her like, Okay, she's still

1705
01:45:08,960 --> 01:45:11,280
Speaker 1: she's still with us. It's the song the sisters could

1706
01:45:11,280 --> 01:45:14,840
Speaker 1: sing in the car when she's still with us and

1707
01:45:15,000 --> 01:45:19,000
Speaker 1: she's not so pop Because what they it was a

1708
01:45:19,040 --> 01:45:21,519
Speaker 1: good question. Now, they didn't want us to They didn't

1709
01:45:21,520 --> 01:45:25,400
Speaker 1: want to want us to make her uh petty, right,

1710
01:45:26,200 --> 01:45:29,800
Speaker 1: you know. They just wanted her to be a little

1711
01:45:29,840 --> 01:45:34,560
Speaker 1: bit more accessible. And and I think and we fortunately,

1712
01:45:35,320 --> 01:45:37,479
Speaker 1: you know, we're able to do that. We went to

1713
01:45:37,680 --> 01:45:40,759
Speaker 1: Clive when we first met Clive, we went and asked

1714
01:45:40,800 --> 01:45:47,920
Speaker 1: if we could do Whitney and uh he said, nah, yeah,

1715
01:45:48,400 --> 01:45:51,000
Speaker 1: you guys already have songs ready for We didn't have

1716
01:45:51,080 --> 01:45:53,400
Speaker 1: songs ready, but we would. I would have written in

1717
01:45:53,439 --> 01:45:56,040
Speaker 1: a second, which she is. So now I tell you

1718
01:45:56,160 --> 01:46:01,880
Speaker 1: what we can, We'll let you do Jennifer Holiday, you

1719
01:46:01,920 --> 01:46:03,560
Speaker 1: could do her verse And at the time he was like,

1720
01:46:04,120 --> 01:46:10,960
Speaker 1: na and uh and so with which today I do

1721
01:46:11,080 --> 01:46:14,280
Speaker 1: Jennifer Holiday in a second. Um, because Prince said something

1722
01:46:14,360 --> 01:46:19,760
Speaker 1: to me, Um, I went up there too as a

1723
01:46:19,840 --> 01:46:21,760
Speaker 1: Jimmy and Terry studio and then I talked to Prince

1724
01:46:21,800 --> 01:46:25,800
Speaker 1: for a minute and he said, you know, we are

1725
01:46:25,960 --> 01:46:28,240
Speaker 1: so blessed that we actually can get in the studio

1726
01:46:28,360 --> 01:46:31,559
Speaker 1: that Chaka Khan called me and asked me, Princess Chuck

1727
01:46:31,560 --> 01:46:32,960
Speaker 1: a Coon asked me if I would do a record

1728
01:46:33,000 --> 01:46:35,280
Speaker 1: on her, and you know, how much would it cost?

1729
01:46:36,280 --> 01:46:37,519
Speaker 1: And I was like, what are you talking about? I

1730
01:46:37,560 --> 01:46:40,400
Speaker 1: should pay you, you know, to be able to go

1731
01:46:40,520 --> 01:46:43,040
Speaker 1: in the studio with you and work with you. And

1732
01:46:43,200 --> 01:46:45,800
Speaker 1: so when you have these artists that we you know,

1733
01:46:46,479 --> 01:46:49,519
Speaker 1: that are amazing artists, it's it's just a much a

1734
01:46:49,600 --> 01:46:52,240
Speaker 1: privilege for us as writers and producers to be able

1735
01:46:52,280 --> 01:46:56,280
Speaker 1: to work with those legendary artists. I ain't saying with

1736
01:46:56,400 --> 01:47:00,719
Speaker 1: doing it for free, but okay, all right, check please

1737
01:47:07,080 --> 01:47:08,559
Speaker 1: let's go and do it. For part one of our

1738
01:47:08,600 --> 01:47:11,720
Speaker 1: interview with baby Face, tune in next week for more

1739
01:47:11,880 --> 01:47:16,919
Speaker 1: on q L s Parce. Love Supreme is a production

1740
01:47:17,000 --> 01:47:20,240
Speaker 1: of I heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by

1741
01:47:20,360 --> 01:47:26,160
Speaker 1: the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,

1742
01:47:26,320 --> 01:47:29,599
Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever

1743
01:47:29,680 --> 01:47:30,960
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.