WEBVTT - True Religion's Denim Disruption Strategy

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. You're listening to Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 1>Business Week with Carol Masser and tim Stenoveek on Bloomberg Radio.

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<v Speaker 1>We spent a lot of time talking about big companies today.

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<v Speaker 1>We covered open Ai, Amazon and Nvidia, Nokia and more.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of the tech space too. Kind of want

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<v Speaker 1>to zoom in a little bit on one of the

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<v Speaker 1>smaller companies that.

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<v Speaker 2>We talk about, Jeans. I had to look, Oh, I

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<v Speaker 2>am we're in jeans.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Im, We're in James Yeah. Okay, but it's like a.

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<v Speaker 3>Super jeans a lot. Now, Yeah, I wear jeans all

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<v Speaker 3>the time.

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<v Speaker 1>Now we're talking jeans. We're talking jeans because we've got

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<v Speaker 1>Michael Buckley with us, the CEO of True Religion. He

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<v Speaker 1>joins us from Gardena, California, so everybody knows the True Religion.

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<v Speaker 1>The company began back in two thousand and two. It

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<v Speaker 1>was publicly traded for a few years. It was taken

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<v Speaker 1>private back in twenty thirteen. Earlier this year, Akon Investments

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<v Speaker 1>took a majority stake in the company. Michael, you've been

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<v Speaker 1>there for quite some time as CEO for wow six

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<v Speaker 1>years at this point. Before we I want to ask

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<v Speaker 1>you how businesses. I want to get an idea of

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<v Speaker 1>the consumer. But because you're a private company, can you

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<v Speaker 1>we don't have access to all the numbers that you

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<v Speaker 1>know we do with public companies. Can you just throw

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<v Speaker 1>us a few numbers contextualize for our audience the size

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<v Speaker 1>of your business right now?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, this year we're going to be just short of

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<v Speaker 4>about five hundred million dollars in revenue, and that's we've

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<v Speaker 4>doubled it over the last four years. And extremely it's

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<v Speaker 4>the most profitable that it's ever been in.

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<v Speaker 2>The twenty two year history.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 4>And I don't know if you guys know, but I

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<v Speaker 4>was here the first time, so to speak. I was

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<v Speaker 4>the president of the company when it was public, and

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<v Speaker 4>I was here from two thousand and six and twenty ten.

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<v Speaker 1>So what are you able to do now as a

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<v Speaker 1>private company that's allowing you to be more profitable than

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<v Speaker 1>you were back as a public company when you were

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<v Speaker 1>a president?

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<v Speaker 2>You know?

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<v Speaker 4>When I you know, clearly the first thing you got

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<v Speaker 4>to really understand in is business is who's your customer.

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<v Speaker 4>So when I came back in twenty nineteen, the first

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<v Speaker 4>thing I did was a consumer to really understand. I

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<v Speaker 4>thought I understood who the customer was, but I wanted

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<v Speaker 4>to really understand who the customer was from what it was.

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<v Speaker 4>Call it in two thousand and five to twenty and twelve,

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<v Speaker 4>when we were selling a you know, a high income

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<v Speaker 4>Norse from Niemen Sacks, Bloomingdale's early adopter customer. So did

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<v Speaker 4>a survey and it came back very clear. Men and

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<v Speaker 4>women fifteenth to fifty the corebian like twenty to forty

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<v Speaker 4>years old, African, American, Latino, White, Asian, all races, but

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<v Speaker 4>about sixty five thousand household income, which is clearly it's

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<v Speaker 4>the American average, but it's a lot less than the consumer.

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<v Speaker 4>I was paying three hundred dollars for pair jeens at

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<v Speaker 4>the beginning of the brand's history.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean it's funny, Like I was thinking about

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<v Speaker 3>how many different types like brands of genes I have

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<v Speaker 3>in my wardrobe and I've gone all in on jeans

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<v Speaker 3>in the last couple of years, and it's there's lots

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<v Speaker 3>of choices out there, but price point does matter, right, Like,

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<v Speaker 3>So how do you think about Michael, Like how you

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<v Speaker 3>guys differentiate yourself. Yes, you can have a name and

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<v Speaker 3>a brand, but I feel like there's more at play.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean I.

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<v Speaker 4>Think for us, I mean, first of all, just to

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<v Speaker 4>set the uh the land. In terms of what this

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<v Speaker 4>brand stands for today, we're about forty percent jeans. So

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<v Speaker 4>of the five hundred million dollars, we're doing forty percent

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<v Speaker 4>jeans and sixty percent in what we'll call sports for us,

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<v Speaker 4>so I sell millions of T shirts, hoodies, joggers, button

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<v Speaker 4>down shirts, dresses, skirts, you know, all apparallel classifications in

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<v Speaker 4>addition to a number of accessory classifications. So you know,

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<v Speaker 4>for us to be to be relevant, I mean knowing

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<v Speaker 4>the customer. We know what the customer wants in terms

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<v Speaker 4>of product, we know what the customer is willing to pay,

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<v Speaker 4>and by reinventing the supply chain of the company, we're

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<v Speaker 4>able to give the.

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<v Speaker 2>Customer what they want at the price they want.

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<v Speaker 4>And quite frankly, our price is today, you know, it

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<v Speaker 4>could be anywhere from you know, sixty nine to one

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<v Speaker 4>hundred and ten dollars for a pair of jeans. It

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<v Speaker 4>could be nineteen ninety nine, twenty nine, ninety nine, thirty

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<v Speaker 4>nine ninety nine for a hoodie or a T shirt.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, we're position at price points where half of

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<v Speaker 4>the two hundred and fifty billion in apparel and accessories

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<v Speaker 4>as sold that today. Now you compare that two years

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<v Speaker 4>ago when we sold three hundred dollar jeans, which was

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<v Speaker 4>literally only a couple of billion dollar business.

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<v Speaker 2>So today the brand.

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<v Speaker 4>Has the ability to have a much more wider appeal

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<v Speaker 4>based on the size of the audience that were going

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<v Speaker 4>after as well as the price points that were able

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<v Speaker 4>to hit for this consumer.

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<v Speaker 1>Talk to me about your supply chain. Where are the

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<v Speaker 1>products made?

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<v Speaker 2>We make them all over the world.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, once upon a time we made everything in

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<v Speaker 4>Los Angeles, and then eventually that shifted to Mexico and

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<v Speaker 4>South America.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you make anything in La anymore?

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<v Speaker 4>We might do a couple items fast Chase, but predominantly

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<v Speaker 4>it's ninety nine percent in other markets outside the US.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, sorry I cut you off, but you were talking

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<v Speaker 1>about the other countries that you're in.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, so we're in China, We're in Cambodia, We're in Vietnam,

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<v Speaker 4>We're in Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, other countries in Guatemala, and

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<v Speaker 4>some countries in South America, tiny tiny bit out of Mexico,

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<v Speaker 4>So it's pretty diverse.

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<v Speaker 1>Aspying today surprised to hear China for a couple of reasons. One,

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<v Speaker 1>I thought that apparel manufacturing wasn't as big as it

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<v Speaker 1>has been traditionally because that economy really has shifted to

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<v Speaker 1>higher tech. But also because of tariffs. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we knew the trade war in the first Trump administration

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<v Speaker 1>sort of was a warning to many companies that that

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<v Speaker 1>were manufacturing in China to find somewhere else to do it.

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<v Speaker 1>What what do you do in China right now? And

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<v Speaker 1>why are you still there?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, first, of Allo's tariffs everywhere.

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<v Speaker 1>Now there now the first Trump term, they were they

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<v Speaker 1>were there was no so called liberation day.

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<v Speaker 2>True.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean today we do a lot out of China.

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<v Speaker 4>We do a lot of out of other countries. We

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<v Speaker 4>you know, like some of the suppliers out of China

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<v Speaker 4>are very good in terms of making apparel.

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<v Speaker 2>They are very quick.

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<v Speaker 4>They have the ability to do more fashion compared to

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<v Speaker 4>other countries that are doing just more basics in mass volume.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, Michael, why we've worked with our Ooh sorry, I'm sorry, No.

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<v Speaker 3>No, no, please continue.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we've worked with our suppliers.

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<v Speaker 4>We literally work with our suppliers to our design team

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<v Speaker 4>will work with the suppliers to be able to bring

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<v Speaker 4>the product in the quality we want, the details we want,

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<v Speaker 4>at the cost we want, and whether that's China or

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<v Speaker 4>other countries out there. So we've been fortunate partnering with

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<v Speaker 4>these factories during Liberation Day and beyond, and we've mitigated

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<v Speaker 4>you know, almost I want to say almost all, but

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<v Speaker 4>probably ninety percent of the tariff impact that we've mitigated

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<v Speaker 4>with partnerships with these factories.

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<v Speaker 3>Hey, one thing I want to ask you about is marketing.

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<v Speaker 3>And I know you guys just rolled out your holiday

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<v Speaker 3>plan or holiday campaign. I'm thinking of. You know how

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<v Speaker 3>much we talked about American Eagle and Sydney Sweeney and

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<v Speaker 3>you know, the provocative you know, having good genes and

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<v Speaker 3>so on and so forth are great genes. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>that got so much momentum. The President even commented on it.

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<v Speaker 3>So tell us about the marketing you know, spend how

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<v Speaker 3>much which that is crucial to your growth strategy.

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<v Speaker 4>It's it's tremendously crucial. I mean, you know, it wasn't

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<v Speaker 4>the first thing we invested in when I came back.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, I have a lot to fix in terms

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<v Speaker 4>of supply chain, in terms of really building building out

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<v Speaker 4>the product really getting woman's back to fifty percent of

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<v Speaker 4>the business.

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<v Speaker 2>But we invest heavily in marketing. Today.

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<v Speaker 4>We spend about ten percent of our turnover. So this

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<v Speaker 4>year it's you know, circa fifty million dollars we'll spend

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<v Speaker 4>on marketing and we'll continue to spend at that level

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<v Speaker 4>to get the you know, we want to make sure

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<v Speaker 4>that that we're relevant to this consumer that we know

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<v Speaker 4>is our customer, and it's important. You know, we just

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<v Speaker 4>launched our campaign with Sierra. You know, we've done other

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<v Speaker 4>major campaigns with people that are relevant today, Megan Thee, Stallion,

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<v Speaker 4>Anita Sweetie, you know, Quavo, India Love, you know, lots

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<v Speaker 4>of people that are relevant to this consumer today. So

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<v Speaker 4>it's incredibly important for us to continue to invest in

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<v Speaker 4>the right talent that that makes this brand relevant to

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<v Speaker 4>this consumer.

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<v Speaker 1>So so, I mean, I know you can't give us

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<v Speaker 1>any names about who you're thinking about, but how would

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<v Speaker 1>you describe the individuals you've worked with or the brand

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<v Speaker 1>image that you want to convey.

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<v Speaker 4>I think that they work perfectly for who our consumer is.

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<v Speaker 4>We have a very diverse consumer and you know, the

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<v Speaker 4>success of this business, I mean literally since we really

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<v Speaker 4>started to invest heavily in marketing over the last couple

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<v Speaker 4>of years, Like I said, we've doubled the size of

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<v Speaker 4>this business as we've ramped up the marketing spend.

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<v Speaker 2>The close to ten percent of revenue.

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<v Speaker 4>So the people we pick resonate well with the consumers

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<v Speaker 4>that we know are the demographic target of this brand.

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<v Speaker 1>So you're known for jeans, but as you mentioned to us,

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<v Speaker 1>that's now less than half of your business. The area

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<v Speaker 1>the biggest area of growth from an imperil perspective, what

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<v Speaker 1>is it.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, we're in a lot of categories.

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<v Speaker 4>We're in button down woven shirts, we're in sweaters, we're

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<v Speaker 4>in an outer where we just need to go deeper

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<v Speaker 4>in those categories. I mean, we believe long term, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>having started as a gene company, genes will be circa

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<v Speaker 4>forty percent of the business. But the growth of a

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<v Speaker 4>brand is really going to come from us just selling

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<v Speaker 4>more of these other classifications as well as selling you know,

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<v Speaker 4>a lot more genes. You know, the price points that

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<v Speaker 4>we sell out today, Like I said, over half of

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<v Speaker 4>the two hundred and fifty billion of parallel accessories have

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<v Speaker 4>sold that and the addressable market of this brand is

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<v Speaker 4>around one hundred and twenty million consumers today versus ten

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<v Speaker 4>million consumers when we were selling three hundred dollar genes.

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<v Speaker 4>So you know, we believe, I mean, our path is

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<v Speaker 4>to get to a billion over the next four or

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<v Speaker 4>five years, but we believe long term this should be

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<v Speaker 4>a multi billion dollar brand, you know, like the Levi's,

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<v Speaker 4>Fashion Nova's and other Tommy's Calvins of the world.

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<v Speaker 3>What's the best channel for selling. You've got stores, You've

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<v Speaker 3>got online, You've got you know, partnerships, whether it's at

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<v Speaker 3>you know, various I don't want to say, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>department stores. You know what is the best or where's

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<v Speaker 3>the growth?

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<v Speaker 2>The growth is everywhere.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean the business today is let's call it circa

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<v Speaker 4>forty five percent coming from True Religion dot com. And

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<v Speaker 4>then the balance is evenly split between fifty of our

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<v Speaker 4>own brick and mortar stores, which are highly profitable. I

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<v Speaker 4>mean it's forty five percent full will leave it the

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<v Speaker 4>model within our stores, and the balance is I mean

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<v Speaker 4>six thousand wholesale locations between North and North America, and

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<v Speaker 4>I'm in another thousand wholesale locations outside of North America.

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<v Speaker 4>So you know, we're in the Macy's and Dillard's and

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<v Speaker 4>downtown locker Rooms and Pakistan's, Tilly's, Zoomies, Urban Outfitters, Buckles

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<v Speaker 4>of the World, plus a lot of independent stores, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>as well as major yeah and mead sized retailers outside

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<v Speaker 4>the US as well.

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<v Speaker 1>So owned by private equity. Obviously there's should be a

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<v Speaker 1>payday for private equity. That's what they're expecting. You were

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<v Speaker 1>at the company when it was public. Is the plan

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<v Speaker 1>to take at public again?

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<v Speaker 4>You know, obviously it's private equity owned. I mean at

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<v Speaker 4>some point in time. Private equity always wants to monetize.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, I enjoyed running a public company.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it's really up to them what they want

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<v Speaker 2>to do with it over time.

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<v Speaker 3>All right, you know what we want to know. You're

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<v Speaker 3>wearing jeans, I assume right, of.

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<v Speaker 4>Course I'm wearing True I have my I have my

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<v Speaker 4>suit and tie on. Here my suit and uh and

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<v Speaker 4>my white shirt on. But yes, I'm wearing True Religion.

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<v Speaker 3>All right. Just check it, hey, listen, stay in touch.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's know how things are going, especially as we get

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<v Speaker 3>into that all important holiday shopping season. Michael Buckley, his

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<v Speaker 3>chief executive officer True Religion, joining us from California,