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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Nolan. They call

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Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer

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Speaker 1: Alexis code named Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you.

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Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this the stuff they

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Speaker 1: don't want you to know. If you're hearing today's episode

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Speaker 1: the day it comes out first, thanks as always for

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Speaker 1: tuning in. Secondly, this is our weekly listener mail segment,

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Speaker 1: where as we always like to say, we hear from

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Speaker 1: the very best part of the show you specifically you. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Transparency is important here at stuff they don't want you

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Speaker 1: to know, So we do want to uh do what

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Speaker 1: Corporate America calls getting in front of something by being

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Speaker 1: very clear with this. This listener mail segment is sponsored.

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Speaker 1: This is sponsored content hashtag sponsored hashtag ad and so

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Speaker 1: we are legally required to play this at the very

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Speaker 1: beginning of the episode. UM. This may be controversial to

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Speaker 1: some people, but it's a company that we support. Wholeheartedly,

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Speaker 1: and we hope that you can enjoy it. And they've

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Speaker 1: always over the years supported us wholeheartedly, which we appreciate,

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Speaker 1: but sometimes it's a little sketchy as to what that

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Speaker 1: means for us regular lives. That's true, yea, So let's

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Speaker 1: let's bite the bullet, get it over with, and then

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Speaker 1: we'll be on with the show. Are you sick of

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Speaker 1: sweating over a hot stove? Do you fancy some flavorful

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Speaker 1: Blubba dubble double barbecue, bacon and blue cheese burger if

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Speaker 1: with a fabulously fake flavored soft drink which will leave

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Speaker 1: fries for free for a limited time only Blubba Dubba

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Speaker 1: publicly traded holding company, owned, operated, and overseen by Illumination

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Speaker 1: Global and its entities. Well we got through that part, folks.

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Speaker 1: We know that sometimes ads can be a necessary evil.

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Speaker 1: But if you, like us, are a fan of kick

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Speaker 1: ass podcasts, then you may recognize a very familiar voice. Uh,

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Speaker 1: Matt Nol I could swear was that Alberto Alonso? Did

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Speaker 1: you guys recognize that voice? The guy from f y

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Speaker 1: I or for your Own Place? Yeah? Yeah, I think so?

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Speaker 1: Am I crazy? No? I think that was him? How

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Speaker 1: does he find the time in between episodes of F

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Speaker 1: Y I? I have no idea. And also, where do

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Speaker 1: you get that sick background music? I feel like I

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Speaker 1: heard that in a Walmart in the nineties. Uh, and

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Speaker 1: I mean that in the best possible way. Well, if

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Speaker 1: it is indeed you, Senor Alonso, we want to thank you.

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Speaker 1: You find the oddest voices in the oddest places. We

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Speaker 1: would also like to urge everybody listening to search for

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Speaker 1: a Blubba Dubba Burger near you. As a matter of fact,

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Speaker 1: tell us if you find one. That's right. They have

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Speaker 1: the best real estate according to their own commercials. Yes,

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Speaker 1: they do, they do. You could say that a Blabba

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Speaker 1: Dubba Burger is as good as drugs, which used to

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Speaker 1: be their old tagline, you know, before the War on drugs.

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Speaker 1: I think that's when they retired it. Yeah, well that's

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Speaker 1: the rumor, at least, you know. That's what I've heard.

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Speaker 1: That's what That's what I've heard as well, from an

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Speaker 1: anonymous source. Also, going back to the old joke, I

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Speaker 1: can't be the only one who likes to imagine anonymous

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Speaker 1: sources all the same. Dude, it's very busy calling in

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Speaker 1: writing into every single thing. Maybe the the anonymous sources

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Speaker 1: we have quoted are all in fact the same person,

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Speaker 1: and if so, kudos your time management is amazing. I'm

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Speaker 1: picturing this individual wearing very large, black, thick grimmed glasses

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Speaker 1: and supporting a button down white shirt and a pocket

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Speaker 1: protector and perhaps some sort of visor, like an accountant

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Speaker 1: from the forties. You know, I don't know why, this

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Speaker 1: is just my mind is running wild with this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe like a green visor, green visor exactly. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: why though? Why the visor? That's what I always wondered

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Speaker 1: that why did what were they getting out of that?

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Speaker 1: And why the clear green visor? I mean, I guess

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Speaker 1: if you're sitting in account, you know, a typewriter all

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Speaker 1: day like that, maybe the the sun gets in your

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Speaker 1: eyes and you need to know cause you to loose

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Speaker 1: focus and your word count will go down or number count.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe the light overhead is glaring in

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Speaker 1: its electric light good well being. Nobody likes a florescence,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of people like drugs. That's what we

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Speaker 1: call a segue. Our first piece of correspondence today comes

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Speaker 1: from Brian s. Brian S is writing to respond to

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Speaker 1: a classic we recently re aired called legal Drugs in America.

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Speaker 1: This was a deep cut. A lot of things have changed.

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Speaker 1: This episode came out amid the originally came out amid

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Speaker 1: the opioid crisis, but before the Sackler family had really

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Speaker 1: been connected to you, the nefarious and successful conspiracy to

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Speaker 1: accelerate opium usage. Here's what Brian said, and we're going

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Speaker 1: to we're going to share the voices on this email

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Speaker 1: because it's a little bit long, but we want to

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Speaker 1: make sure we get as much as possible in here. Brian,

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Speaker 1: you said Hi, guys. I enjoyed your classic podcast about

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Speaker 1: legal drugs in America and wanted to make a few

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Speaker 1: comments as well as share some of my own experiences

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Speaker 1: with healthcare. Particularly this is interesting optometry. You mentioned the

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Speaker 1: conspiracy theory that Big Pharma is fabricating illnesses to sell

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Speaker 1: more drugs. Have you ever heard of restless leg syndrome?

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Speaker 1: I watched sixty Minutes on Sunday evenings on CPS and

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Speaker 1: their advertising is dominated by Big Pharma with ads for

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Speaker 1: medications to treat all kinds of illnesses. On a related topic,

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Speaker 1: have you noticed how often women's bodies are used to

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Speaker 1: sell stuff. The latest on sixty minutes advertising is eye

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Speaker 1: brands used to treat breast cancer. Yes, breast cancer is

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Speaker 1: a valid disease to treat. A good friend of mine

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Speaker 1: died recently from this illness. I noticed in the TV

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Speaker 1: ad they show a woman's stocking feet changing from one

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Speaker 1: set of shoes to another, So they are using women's

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Speaker 1: feet to sell breast cancer medication. I've also seen women's

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Speaker 1: feet used to sell yogurt and some kind of quote

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Speaker 1: natural breakfast, cereal, granola or something not that I need

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Speaker 1: to hit too hard on Big Farma. They did rescue

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Speaker 1: the world from COVID with the record breaking speedy development

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Speaker 1: of COVID vaccines. Give credit where credit is a due.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how much money they made in the deal,

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Speaker 1: but they are capitalists as am I. I don't fault

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Speaker 1: them for making money. And to briefly summarize, Brian, you

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Speaker 1: relate one of your own personal experiences with healthcare with

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Speaker 1: someone you describe as a particular optometrist quote whose name

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Speaker 1: I will not mention, and quote, and then you also

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Speaker 1: go on to say that optometrists are now petitioning to

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Speaker 1: be allowed to treat glaucoma, which had previously been exclusively

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Speaker 1: or solely the purview of ophthalmologists. And the difference there

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Speaker 1: between an optometrist and an optomologist, as you note, is

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Speaker 1: that optomologists are medical doctors, optometrists are not. And what's

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Speaker 1: interesting about this is that Brian goes on to relate

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Speaker 1: his experience. He goes in for a periodic exam to

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Speaker 1: get his new contact lens prescription. If you wear corrective

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Speaker 1: lenses of any sort, you know you're supposed to go

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Speaker 1: in every year. Uh. And he says this optometrist insisted

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Speaker 1: on doing a battery of tests that both he and

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Speaker 1: possibly his insurance were charged for. One indicated what this

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Speaker 1: optometrist called a pre glaucomic condition. Brian didn't exactly agree

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Speaker 1: with him, but knows he's not a medical specialist. And

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Speaker 1: he said, based on the ambiguity the data, the fact

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Speaker 1: the test was done with inexperienced staff letting in stray

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Speaker 1: light corrupting test results, it seemed to Brian that this

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Speaker 1: optometrist was attempting to successfully diagnose him with this condition.

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Speaker 1: And when he said, hey, maybe I should see an

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Speaker 1: ophthalmologist because glaucoma is serious requires a specialist. Uh, this

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Speaker 1: optometrist said, no, I can treat you for this condition

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Speaker 1: just fine on my own. Uh. And as he kept asking,

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Speaker 1: the optometrists began to insist that did not see an

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Speaker 1: ophthalmologist and sent him to another optometrist out of the way,

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Speaker 1: where it turned out he had a financial interest in

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Speaker 1: that second office. When he asked to see an ophthalmologist,

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Speaker 1: when he pushed the issue and requested his medical records,

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Speaker 1: kind of like how we talked about with dentistry, right,

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Speaker 1: the optometrists changed his tune and said, look, if you

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Speaker 1: have to go to an ophthalmologist. It will really make

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Speaker 1: you feel better. I have one to recommend you. And uh.

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Speaker 1: Then he didn't go with that recommendation. He went to

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Speaker 1: someone else he chose, and it turned how he did

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Speaker 1: not have a pre glaucoma condition. When he told the

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Speaker 1: optometrist that the optometrists changed their tune and tried to

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Speaker 1: gaslight and gaslighting is, you know, an incredibly common thing

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Speaker 1: in any part of society. And he said, that's just

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Speaker 1: what I said, when Brian is pretty sure he said

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Speaker 1: the opposite. So this all leads to the question of

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Speaker 1: profit incentive, to this bigger question of how much one

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Speaker 1: can or should trust a medical professional. And this kept

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Speaker 1: I don't know about you guys, but this kept making

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Speaker 1: me think of that episode on dentistry, you know, and

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Speaker 1: and some of the hazards involved there. Uh. But it

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Speaker 1: also made me think, just in the headline, the concept

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Speaker 1: of large companies with a financial interest in quote unquote

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Speaker 1: manufacturing the idea of a medical condition and infection or

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Speaker 1: a disease. Knowl The part that you were reading about

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Speaker 1: using feat to advertise something is it makes a kind

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Speaker 1: of surrealist sense because while pharmaceutical companies can air television

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Speaker 1: ads in two places in the world, US and New Zealand.

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Speaker 1: Those ads have a lot of restrictions, right because they

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Speaker 1: have to be very careful not to overpromise, and that's

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Speaker 1: why you'll see You'll see like these very air brushed,

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Speaker 1: laughy daffy people running around in apart kind of adds

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Speaker 1: with very sedate inspiring music for things like antidepression, medication.

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Speaker 1: And the only way you until their pharmaceutical ads is

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Speaker 1: at the very end they're like, be war happy. A

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Speaker 1: trim can cause the following conditions, and they're all horrific.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes they are even like death, I mean, are like

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Speaker 1: you know, internal bleeding, and then they just like rattle

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Speaker 1: them off one after the other. Is honestly a fun

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Speaker 1: game to play because there's some go to ones that

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Speaker 1: me and my daughter are always listening for. But it's

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Speaker 1: become a thing of real good parody fodder for sure.

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Speaker 1: You'll also always here ask your doctor about this drug

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Speaker 1: if so and so is right for you, suggest to

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Speaker 1: your doctor, the one who's going to prescribe drugs to you,

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Speaker 1: that you be prescribed a drug not the best advice

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Speaker 1: to treat your condition or what you perceive your condition

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Speaker 1: to be, but ask your doctor, because we're pretty sure

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Speaker 1: we've got to them through a convention or through a

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Speaker 1: farmer wrapped something like that. And before we continue, this

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Speaker 1: is a situation where we're pointing out real problems that occur,

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Speaker 1: but that shouldn't be confused with throwing the entire industry

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Speaker 1: under the bus, because doctors are doing their best to

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Speaker 1: save people's lives, optometrists, optimologists are doing their best to

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Speaker 1: keep people's vision and their eyes healthy. When I think

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Speaker 1: about the idea of manufacturing disease, I was surprised to

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Speaker 1: find that this is a common accusation. There's even a

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Speaker 1: term for it, disease mongering. Have you guys ever heard

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Speaker 1: of that? Just from you right before we started recording,

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Speaker 1: And I cannot wait to hear what this is because

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Speaker 1: it's a very sinister sounding concept. I mean, it's the

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Speaker 1: age old idea of capitalism just translated to the medical industry.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's easier to sell people something if you

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Speaker 1: invent and control the perceived need for that product or service.

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Speaker 1: So like, if you can and this happens a lot

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Speaker 1: in the world of beauty, right, if you can convince

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Speaker 1: people that some specific part of their appearance is bad

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Speaker 1: for booting or unacceptable. Even if it's totally fine, then you,

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Speaker 1: as the entity selling the thing to fix whatever that is,

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Speaker 1: are are going to make bank. It's all about winning

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Speaker 1: the hearts of minds and publicly pressuring people. Can I

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Speaker 1: tell you guys a quick story. I went to a

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Speaker 1: spa recently for some self care you know it is, yeah, um.

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Speaker 1: I perused with the person at the front desk an

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Speaker 1: entire wall of products kind of like the ones you're

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Speaker 1: describing here, Ben, and almost all of them were in

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Speaker 1: the thirty to fifty dollar range, which to my money

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Speaker 1: was like, Wow, these are all like face serums and

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Speaker 1: all these things that I can't imagine why you would,

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Speaker 1: you know, need to pay that much money for this

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Speaker 1: tiny little vial of stuff. There was one in the

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Speaker 1: very center that was one hundred and eighty dollars US

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Speaker 1: and it was as small as the other ones, a

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Speaker 1: tiny little thing, and I I just asked her point blank,

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Speaker 1: there's no way anybody walks in here and buys d

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Speaker 1: and eighty dollars worth of this stuff, right, And she said,

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Speaker 1: that's actually one of our most popular products. And I

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Speaker 1: just cannot believe it. Yeah, my my daughter's mom um

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Speaker 1: has a she's an aesthetician um and runs her own

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Speaker 1: spa and makes her own skincare products. And she actually,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't say she takes a loss, but she certainly

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Speaker 1: does not reap the same like insane mark up kind

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Speaker 1: of you know, benefits that some of those larger companies do.

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Speaker 1: She makes all this stuff out of products that are expensive,

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Speaker 1: like essential oils are expensive and they're very potent, and um,

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Speaker 1: she makes these different like skin serums and all that,

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Speaker 1: but her whole deal is to try to make that

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Speaker 1: stuff more accessible and more affordable. And whatever your feelings

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Speaker 1: are in the efficacy of those kinds of products, you're

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Speaker 1: absolutely right, man. They can be incredibly expensive and also

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Speaker 1: incredibly questioned. It was to whether they actually do what

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Speaker 1: they're supposed to do or not. Yeah, And when we

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Speaker 1: get to the idea, I mean, it's mackavellium, but it's brilliant,

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Speaker 1: the idea of inventing need for a thing that you

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Speaker 1: plan to sell as a solution than The by far

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Speaker 1: most well known example of this theory is the concept

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Speaker 1: of holitosis, which is the dressed up name for bad

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Speaker 1: breath everybody's had swamp mouth at certain point in their lives,

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Speaker 1: and you know this, This can make a big difference

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Speaker 1: in all sorts of things. First impressions, the way I mean,

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Speaker 1: we have to realize the human mind is very easily

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Speaker 1: primed and skewed, like Matt to your example, I would

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Speaker 1: not be surprised if there was some active anchoring of

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Speaker 1: prices there so that one bottle of whatever will make

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Speaker 1: a sixty bottle of something seem incredibly reasonable a stealing, right, dude.

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Speaker 1: They had it directly in the center of them that showcase,

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Speaker 1: so you know, people's eyes go to it, then they

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Speaker 1: see the sixty dollar one. Dude, you're well, you're absolutely right, man,

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Speaker 1: you've seen this going on items sure, many other people

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Speaker 1: have have clocked that same process. Disease mongering. The phrase

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Speaker 1: feels a little bit alarmist because what's happening here, at

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Speaker 1: least in the US, is that marketing companies pharmaceutical companies,

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Speaker 1: when they're engaged in the research process, research and approval

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Speaker 1: to sell something, they can't start advertising it until it's

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Speaker 1: FDA approved because otherwise they're they're kind of overpromising, or

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Speaker 1: they don't have quantitative proof of the efficacy of whatever

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Speaker 1: product they're selling. But this doesn't prevent these entities from

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Speaker 1: raising awareness of the condition that they hope their product

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Speaker 1: will treat in the future once it's approved, And so

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Speaker 1: this leads to a lot of distrust in the public.

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Speaker 1: And the sticky thing about it is that there is

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Speaker 1: a there's a grain of truth to the story that

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Speaker 1: we're gonna learn and just the quick broad strokes. Most

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Speaker 1: famous example historically of what would be called disease mongering

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Speaker 1: is the idea that Listering invented the concept of bad

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Speaker 1: breath and called it halitosis to sell more mouthwash. It's

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Speaker 1: brilliant if you think about it. It's like up there

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Speaker 1: with what are those things called, you know, English professors

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Speaker 1: wear them on their blazers elbow elbow patches. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: don't know why I missed that. But let's let's say, like,

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Speaker 1: you gotta sell elbow patches, and you say, okay, we

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Speaker 1: can try to sell them the regular way all the

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Speaker 1: livelong day, but what if we convince people their elbows

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Speaker 1: are bad and need to be hidden, then then we're

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Speaker 1: saving someone, right, We're not just selling them something extra,

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Speaker 1: We're keeping their dirty elbows undercover where they belong. Right, Uh,

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Speaker 1: we'll call you know, wekness protection or whatever. This this

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Speaker 1: is the idea that Listerine did something like this, And

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Speaker 1: the weird part is it is partially true. Listerine was

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Speaker 1: founded by a guy named Jordan Wheat Lambert, and in

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Speaker 1: n his son George Lambert coined the term holatosis to

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Speaker 1: describe bad breath. But the thing is, bad breath was

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Speaker 1: already round. Bad breath is a real thing, and it

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Speaker 1: can be assigned in some cases of serious medical conditions.

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Speaker 1: So sometimes disease awareness or you know, raising a flag

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Speaker 1: if you think something could become serious down the road

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Speaker 1: is just preventive medicine, which everybody could use more of. Benny,

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Speaker 1: you say, coined the term, Does that mean it's not

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Speaker 1: an official medical condition? You look at it online, um,

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Speaker 1: and it seems to encompass a lot of legitimate medical

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Speaker 1: conditions like dry mouth, and there's all kinds of symptoms.

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Speaker 1: But it does seem like a pretty massive catch all.

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering just what the the expertise of the person

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Speaker 1: that quote unquote coined this was or if this ins

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Speaker 1: and is officially recognized. Now, yeah, it's it's become kind

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Speaker 1: of just a synonym for bad breath in general to

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Speaker 1: a to a big degree, and it was tied up

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Speaker 1: in this massive advertising campaign. The listing company did run

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Speaker 1: a very successful marketing campaign on holitosis, and it made

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Speaker 1: a huge difference in the future of the company because

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Speaker 1: beforehand they were just generally selling something framed as treatments

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Speaker 1: for injuries in the mouth. But when you call something hollitosis,

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Speaker 1: when you give it an official, specific name, no matter

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Speaker 1: how legit it is, then product seems to have more credibility.

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Speaker 1: But the truth is that even though George Lambert took

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Speaker 1: the Latin word for breath, this is this is where

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Speaker 1: it came from. This is the atomology. The Latin word

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Speaker 1: for breath is halitus, and he combined it with the

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Speaker 1: medical suffix osis, so it sounded more official. It sounded

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Speaker 1: like something you would hear in med school that it

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Speaker 1: just means bad breath. It's kind of like Hogan DAWs

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Speaker 1: just made up a word that they thought sounded fancy

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Speaker 1: and European exactly. That's what I was asking. That's incredible

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Speaker 1: and also doesn't mount like how toasts is if you

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Speaker 1: trace the atomology basically just means like mouth condition. It's

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Speaker 1: just not very specific at all. It literally just means

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Speaker 1: breath osis. And and this is this is weird because

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Speaker 1: there is a there is a grain of truth to this,

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Speaker 1: and that the term was invented, but the condition was

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Speaker 1: not invented. And people who are this may be worth

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Speaker 1: a full episode because people who are saying that, uh,

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Speaker 1: these private entities are purposely trying to create the conditions

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Speaker 1: they later purport to treat. And remember, you want to

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Speaker 1: treat a condition. If you cure it, then you're getting

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Speaker 1: rid of the people who will pay you more money

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Speaker 1: in the future. This argument is maybe a little misleading

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Speaker 1: because supporters of pharmaceutical companies and all the researchers who

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Speaker 1: are working around the clock to cure very specific, sometimes

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Speaker 1: life threatening conditions are not flim flam artists. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're not con artists. They're trying to help people. That's

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Speaker 1: what the supporters would say in response to the opponent's arguments.

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Speaker 1: We're not I think at the point where we can

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Speaker 1: definitively say there are conspiracies of foot but at the

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Speaker 1: very least, halitosis is brilliant marketing. It is a real condition, bad,

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Speaker 1: but that's like saying bad breath is a real condition.

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Speaker 1: That's like saying weather is a real condition. There are

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Speaker 1: a lot of different types of weather, right, so I've

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Speaker 1: be careful with those broad brushes. Agreed. I want to

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Speaker 1: learn more about restless leg syndrome, or as Wikipedia states,

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Speaker 1: willis eckbum disease, because I know that was mentioned by

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Speaker 1: our emailer there and I just don't know much about it,

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Speaker 1: whether it's real or not. I know there's controversy, and

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Speaker 1: maybe it is worth a full episode. We're gonna pause

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Speaker 1: for a word from another one of our sponsors in

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Speaker 1: the meantime, Brian. All in all, it's good news. Congratulations

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Speaker 1: on not having symptoms of incipid claud coma. So let

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Speaker 1: us know if you think if you think some of

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Speaker 1: these big players in the pharmaceutical industry are indeed generating

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Speaker 1: medical conditions, or if you think this is a bunch

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Speaker 1: of kind of alarmist internet rumor mills stuff on three

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Speaker 1: three st d w y t K conspiracy at I

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Speaker 1: heart radio dot com. We'll be right back, and we're

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Speaker 1: back now. Long time listener, as you are, you know

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Speaker 1: that birds show up on this show all the time,

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Speaker 1: whether it's because Noel loves them so very much. Ben

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Speaker 1: has a you know, a relationship with certain raven is

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Speaker 1: it murders of rape, no, murders of crows that exists

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Speaker 1: around him at all times. As we've talked about in

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Speaker 1: previous episodes, we've also talked about how birds are not

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Speaker 1: real is a thing that people believe now or pretend

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Speaker 1: to believe for a joke. Well, I've got another story

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Speaker 1: for you regarding birds, and it comes via a voicemail.

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Speaker 1: So let's go ahead and take a listen. My name

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Speaker 1: is James. I'm a long time listener. I was listening

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Speaker 1: to one of your strange news segments, the ones about

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Speaker 1: the building collapse in Florida and the I just got

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Speaker 1: to the part about how the birds are not real,

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Speaker 1: and I wanted to let you guys know that I

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Speaker 1: was in Arkansas several years ago when I was in college,

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Speaker 1: and I was at a national art and I was

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Speaker 1: looking with a friend of mine up at these birds

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Speaker 1: and pointing in A park ranger pulled up and said,

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Speaker 1: do you think that's pretty cool? Huh? After yeah, we're

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Speaker 1: watching the birds, he said watch this and he got

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Speaker 1: a remote control of this truck, pressed the button on it,

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Speaker 1: and the bird landed in front of us, and it

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Speaker 1: was not a bird. It was a robot camera. True story.

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Speaker 1: Awesome boy, awesome, and it was bound to happen. I

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00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 1: mean that, you know, telephone towers or telecom towers are

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Speaker 1: sometimes disguised or more and more often disguised to look

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Speaker 1: like trees. It's true, it's true, and there's reason to

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Speaker 1: want to have a robot camera bird or a drone

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Speaker 1: that is shaped in bird form, taking bird form in

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Speaker 1: some way or another. Um. At first, James, I want

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Speaker 1: to say that I didn't believe you. When I was

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Speaker 1: just sitting there going through voicemails, I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: James is pulling our leg. He's trying to be silly. Uh. Nope, no,

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Speaker 1: you're not, James. And here's what we found. Uh. First

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Speaker 1: of all, in t eighteen, there's reporting out of the

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Speaker 1: South China Morning Post as well as several other places

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Speaker 1: that that picked up the story, including c NET that

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Speaker 1: discuss in China very specific program of bird drone surveillance.

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Speaker 1: Sounds crazy, sounds weird. It sounds like I'm saying some

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Speaker 1: birds aren't real. That's what I'm saying, at least in

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Speaker 1: this part of China where a group has been developing

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Speaker 1: drones that I'll describe it to you. It looks kind

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Speaker 1: of like a white dove, or at least somewhat like

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Speaker 1: a white dove, though the wings are a bit strange.

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Speaker 1: They're white with kind of a black outline to them.

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Speaker 1: They flap, they do they flap? Do they sing a song?

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Speaker 1: Sounds like they're singing baby Baby. Maybe they also cry

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Speaker 1: a lot, they'll do that. They're very emotional creatures, even

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Speaker 1: the robot part. Yeah, but no, but they they are

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Speaker 1: real and they have been used. There are other versions

426
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 1: of drones, not just that one specifically, that one was posted.

427
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,640
Speaker 1: A picture of that type of bird drone was posted

428
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,400
Speaker 1: in the South China Morning Post and the article's title

429
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 1: there is China take surveillance to New Heights with flock

430
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: of robotic doves. But do they come in peace? Uh? No,

431
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 1: of course they don't. There's a paywall there. If you

432
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 1: want to get to it and watch it, I highly

433
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: recommend you look for it on c net because it

434
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: is free if you are within the United States. Now

435
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 1: that's just one thing that you can look up right now.

436
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,439
Speaker 1: You can learn about it. It seems really strange. According

437
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 1: to that article, there are more than thirty Chinese military

438
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 1: and government agencies using drones that specifically look like birds. Again,

439
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: not just this model. Now, then I thought, okay, well

440
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: that's that's one story about it. Maybe that's the only

441
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 1: drone bird business going right now. Uh, Nope, not at all. Okay,

442
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: So then you head on over to s U a

443
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: s News. The it's called the Business of Drones. I

444
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: did not know much about this place. It says it

445
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: is for drone drivers, by drone drivers since two thousand eight, yep.

446
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: And in here you will find an article called Unobtrusive

447
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 1: Surveillance with Drone Bird. And on this one you will

448
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 1: see a seagull looking fellow that is actually a drone

449
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 1: with a propeller on the back with wings. Uh these

450
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,199
Speaker 1: wings do not flap, they're more they're more like the

451
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: wings of an airplane. But it does have a propeller

452
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: on the back, and it looks exactly like a seagull.

453
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: It sure does. You showed us this video yesterday, um

454
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: in preparation for today's recording, and it also has this

455
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: like I think it's kind of a sounded like, but

456
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,959
Speaker 1: it's this massive eighties read like Highway to the Danger

457
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: Zone type soundtrack, and the part where they launched the

458
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: bird is when the guitar solo kicks into full gear,

459
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 1: and it's very inspirational and terrifying. I think. Also, I

460
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 1: don't know about anybody else, but I had a better

461
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: initial experience than the average viewer because I was lucky

462
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 1: enough to to hear you met narrating this was some

463
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: awesome vo that was so good. Until I directly looked

464
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: back at the away from the video at the zoom screen,

465
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: I I thought it was part of the video. I

466
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 1: didn't know it was you just kind of freestyling. I

467
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: don't know. I remember I asked you if you had

468
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: practiced or written it down beforehand. But you have a gift,

469
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: my friend. It was very impressive. I was just reading

470
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: the titles that they put on the screen, and because

471
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: it is an impressive little promotional video for this company

472
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: titled the Drone Bird Company. Yeah, well, they've got a

473
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: lot going on. You can't spend like a day out

474
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: of the week just figuring out the name Drone Bird Company.

475
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: It does what it says, that's exactly right, and you

476
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 1: can go to it. You can go to their website,

477
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: the drone bird dot Com. You can go there right

478
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: now and you can watch the videos we are talking about.

479
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: All you have to do is click on the title

480
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: that says Unobtrusive Surveillance Nike. The videos at the top.

481
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: Two the videos at the top. I want to read

482
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: a little bit for you from this website. We are

483
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:34,719
Speaker 1: not sponsored by the drone Bird company. We are fascinated

484
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: by them, I am. They are a Dutch technology company

485
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: and they develop bird shaped drones like you said, Ben,

486
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: what it says. And they developed both fixed wing bird

487
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: drones like the one we describe that looks like a seagull,

488
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: and flapping bird drones that the wings actually move, and

489
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: they do it for a really interesting purpose. One of

490
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: the initial reasons they started making these was war airports.

491
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: Why would you want to have a drone that shaped

492
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: like a predator bird at an airport? Scare away the

493
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: tray birds, that's right, The ones that what do they

494
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: call it, the ones that bird the planes just whatever

495
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: they call them. The ones that end up in engines

496
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: and destroy an engine and may hurt people or live

497
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: inside airports infiltrate them, like the Detroit Airport for the

498
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: longest time had this thing. I think out of the

499
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: four of us, maybe Docta. You've been to the Detroit

500
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: Airport most recently, but they for a long time, there

501
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: used to be these birds that these tiny little birds

502
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: that would live around this fountain in a central area,

503
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: right next to a little coffee place. It was great

504
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: to watch them, but airport security obviously didn't like it.

505
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: So maybe those drone birds, uh, maybe they're deployed there

506
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: to stop doing from having a peaceful, freaking moment in

507
00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: the airport, which is a stressful place. It right, I've

508
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: got I've got a little editorial bias, but Matt, You're

509
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 1: absolutely right. It makes sense, doesn't it. It's it's um

510
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: it's an airborne scarecrow. Yeah, exactly, airborne scarecrow. And you

511
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: do need, or at least you did need a drone driver,

512
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 1: a pilot of the drone to actually, you know, sit

513
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,959
Speaker 1: there with with physical controls and aim the bird and

514
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 1: have it fly where you want it to fly. There

515
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: are now autonomous versions of several of these drone types

516
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: that can fly around for quite a while up in

517
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: the air, and I don't know why that makes it

518
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: freaky here to me. I think in both instances. It's

519
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: a bit freaky to me. But knowing that there's possibly

520
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 1: a bird up there that is operating on its own

521
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 1: that is not real and can see me, I don't

522
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: know that kind of weirds me out. And I can

523
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: see why this would be disturbing to many other people

524
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: because they're not just used for those purposes for clearing

525
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: out airports and other places where you don't want birds,

526
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: maybe on crops and things like that. They're also used

527
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: for legit surveillance. So I'm gonna continue reading from the

528
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: drone Bird Companies about page. They also have this fixed

529
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: wing goal model and it is the most ideal drone

530
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: according to their website, for quote, covert surveillance, reconnaissance, and

531
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: other types of monitoring. This is because it is virtually

532
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: undetectable and indistinguishable from the real thing for both humans

533
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: and animals. AVES, which is their line of of bird

534
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 1: drones that have fixed wings, AVES is quickly gaining interest

535
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: from police, special forces, secret services, and military services from

536
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: all over the world because of the unique flying platform.

537
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: Um and here's the thing. It's not just seagulls. It's

538
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: just not it's not just certain types of birds. They

539
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: are developing all kinds of shapes and sizes of birds

540
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: to mimic all kinds of different species depending on where

541
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: they're operating. So whatever the biomas supports, whatever you know,

542
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: is extant already in an area. They've got a quote

543
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: modular payload for you. Even flat whispers Kiwi's ostriches EMUs jubils.

544
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 1: Now that that's a different type of drone friend patrolling

545
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: the marsh, you know, like terrifying. Dude, this, I do

546
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: not like this dystopian future that you are describing. That

547
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: which is apparently now is Yeah, shoe bills can fly,

548
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: They're just not very good at it. I should point

549
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 1: that out in case the people at the Drone Bird

550
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: company are listening. I do. I do have some questions though,

551
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: like this could easily work with something like facial recognition,

552
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: because you just need the camera and as long as

553
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 1: you have a reliable feed to the ground, then you

554
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: can set up all the head of your stuff. But

555
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: remember when we talked about the experiments in wiring animals

556
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: brains to pieces of technology, like you, uh, you have

557
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 1: rats that can respond to certain stimulus and have the

558
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 1: stimuli and have contraption of some sort human made uh

559
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: ape the same actions. I wonder if I don't think

560
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: this would be useful. I think they've nailed the stuff

561
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 1: that is useful for their purposes. But wonder if it

562
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 1: would be possible to kind of make an avian version

563
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: of the matrix, you know what I mean, put a

564
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 1: literal bird brain, wire it up and then have it

565
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: flying one of these kinds of of drones. Maybe that's

566
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: crazy to consider. I will say we probably aren't quite

567
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,280
Speaker 1: in the dystopian future that I said desperately fear, because

568
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: the battery life for these things is still a very

569
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 1: underwhelming hour and a half. Yeah tops, right, Yeah, it's true,

570
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: it's with an hour and a half. But wouldn't it

571
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: be suspicious if you saw a bird flying around for

572
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:10,399
Speaker 1: ten hours? I mean it's actually perfect cover. Very few

573
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 1: people pay that level of attention to their surroundings. Well,

574
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: somebody that year going after probably does very good. Boy,

575
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: there's probably some kind of stronghold out in the hinter

576
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: lands of a relatively lawless place, and they've they've probably

577
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 1: got a bird guy. They got a guy who comes

578
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: in and just says, like, all right, I just want

579
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:42,320
Speaker 1: everybody to know there is something up with that sparrow. Yeah,

580
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: I mean it's making a buzzing noise and it gets

581
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,240
Speaker 1: a little closer and I can't quite put my finger

582
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 1: on it, but it's weird. It keeps sparking when it

583
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: lands on that high tension wire. Um, I got I

584
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:55,839
Speaker 1: got ask though, Matt, Like, I don't want to harp

585
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: on this battery life thing, but for true surveillance, it

586
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 1: doesn't seem are efficient. An hour and a half isn't

587
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,240
Speaker 1: a lot of time. Would you have another one ready

588
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: to deploy in its place and then you charge the

589
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 1: original one? I mean I imagine they would take a

590
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: long time to charge as well. But uh, I don't know,

591
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 1: and I don't know how much these costs. You can

592
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 1: contact the company through their website and ask them about it.

593
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: It's very um but you know, And well, here's the

594
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: other thing. Range, right, Battery life and range, those are

595
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 1: the two metrics you're looking for in a drone. And

596
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,760
Speaker 1: according to their website, the one that I was looking

597
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 1: at things of the Loriss part of the AVES series,

598
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:43,439
Speaker 1: it has a range of forty kilometers, just pretty good

599
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: of an area to cover. And remember in that forty

600
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 1: kilometers you're getting, you're getting a camera feed, just a

601
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:54,280
Speaker 1: regular old HD signal kind of thing. You're getting infrared feeds,

602
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 1: night vision and night vision infrared, and you're also able

603
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: to track the drone wherever it is from from the

604
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: ground base wherever you are. It's got telemetry on there,

605
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 1: and you could really see everything you need to as

606
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 1: a surveillance mechanism. They currently are not armed, so that's good.

607
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: They're not gonna leave droppings that are explosive at least yet.

608
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: But I can totally see that happening. Why not? I

609
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 1: mean you could do well. The thing is the thing

610
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: that is tricky about range, because we have to remember

611
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,360
Speaker 1: these are just these are electric vehicles. They're scary, but

612
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 1: there's still electric vehicles. Is that that forty kilometer range

613
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: is not uh is not round trip? Right? So really

614
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 1: we're talking about twenty kilometers if you want them to

615
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 1: make it back right? Well, I correct me if I'm wrong.

616
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: Drone operators out there, I think that means the rains

617
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 1: from from which you can operate it from whatever station.

618
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 1: I think that's what that means. Maybe I'm completely so

619
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: that makes sense. That makes sense because you need some

620
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 1: kind of repeat or signal to extend it then okay,

621
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,439
Speaker 1: but they can get up to ten thou feet that's

622
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: the height where they can get up too. Isn't that

623
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: illegal according to the f a A. Doesn't that breach

624
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: some sort of limits set for drone use. We've talked

625
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: about it. There is amber. Remember either I means because

626
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 1: it can do it doesn't mean you should do it.

627
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: So I'm not saying that that's what they're implying. But yeah,

628
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 1: it's weird, man, you see the video. I highly recommend

629
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 1: watching the video, if only for the soundtrack. Uh and

630
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 1: of course the creepy robot birds, but um, they're just

631
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 1: kind of hovering around, very innocuous. We were playing it

632
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: for uh doc Um where she was on with us,

633
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 1: and she literally chimed in and asked if it was

634
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: a joke, because it seemed like it was a joke largely,

635
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: but I think thanks to the amazingly smalty soundtrack, but

636
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: it just seemed like, based on all these conversations we've

637
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 1: had around fake birds, that maybe someone was like, you know,

638
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 1: pulling our leg. But no, it's very much a product.

639
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 1: Altitude is limited to four feet for private drone operators

640
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,320
Speaker 1: by the f a A. But this feels like there.

641
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: Business model for the Bird Drone company is to sell

642
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 1: to people who can get around that sort of law

643
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 1: or it doesn't apply to them. I'm sure if an

644
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: airport uses it, then they would have different different standards.

645
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,399
Speaker 1: But again, it's a brave new world. I'm not sure

646
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 1: how it would work. I am almost certain though, if

647
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: you had to guess, I am almost certain that the

648
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: solution to the lower end of the battery life is

649
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 1: to just make it look like a nest, right, and

650
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: just make it look like wireless charging, like like like

651
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: literally like those things you put like pads you put

652
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: your iPhone down on and it charges, the bird goes

653
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 1: and nests for a while. And that's brilliant. Ben. Why

654
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 1: you do you crack there, my friend? I think the

655
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 1: people who actually are doing this probably already figured that out.

656
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 1: It is a weird situation though. They launch from this

657
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 1: little catapu system and then they get and it's not

658
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: a sling shot, right, It's almost like a sling shot,

659
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 1: like they pull it back and release it and then

660
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: it shoots and then it kind of takes wing. Yeah,

661
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 1: and but then when it returns, it comes right back

662
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 1: to where it took off from where it took off

663
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: if it's in autonomous mode. He I was wrong, Ben,

664
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 1: It is a fifteen kilometer operational radius, so fifteen kilometers

665
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,320
Speaker 1: from wherever your control station is. So then that forty

666
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 1: kilometers I guess is how far it can travel. Maybe

667
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 1: you're right, I just don't know. Yeah, well it would

668
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: be great for us to have one to test out.

669
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: Just putting that out in the universe. Yeah, the Avis

670
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 1: Avis the drone bird company, the start the drone, but

671
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: then the model, the seagull one is the model is

672
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: a Avis? I believe right? Yeah? Is it? How do

673
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: you say it? A babies Davies there that makes sense?

674
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:58,280
Speaker 1: Like bird Avian? Uh? Yeah, they have stuff, guys, it's crazy.

675
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 1: We're we're going over time. We're gonna up now and

676
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 1: go to a commercial watch the skies because the birds

677
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: are mostly real for now, all right, and we're back

678
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 1: with one final listener, Maile from you uh the most

679
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 1: important part of the show. This one comes to us

680
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: from our amazing listener a m Resident of Earth, and

681
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 1: it is in reference to Uh. I think it was

682
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,320
Speaker 1: something that we've followed up on in our most recent

683
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: Strange News episode that was also a reaction to a

684
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 1: previous listener mail. So it's full circle here. Um. But

685
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 1: this is about about drugs and about the idea of

686
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: adulter its in certain street drugs and why that might be.

687
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 1: And uh, A m resident of Earth cluded us into

688
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 1: a really interesting economic concept called the iron law of prohibition.

689
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: So here we go. High folks feel free to use

690
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:05,439
Speaker 1: this on the air. I hope I'm not kicking off

691
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:09,360
Speaker 1: infinite recursive listener mail inception, which is what I was

692
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 1: just describing. On a recent listener mail stegment. You pondered

693
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 1: why anyone would add fentanyl to heroin. The reason may

694
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: be counterintuitive at first glance. The very fact that narcotics

695
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: are prohibited encourages the use of ever more concentrated and

696
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 1: dangerous forms. This is called the iron law of prohibition

697
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: and has been well documented in a variety of circumstances.

698
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: The ten second explanation is that the more fiercely a

699
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 1: prohibition is enforced, the harder it is to move large

700
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 1: volumes of illegal substances to adapt bootleggers traffic and more

701
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: potent drugs to make them easier to hide. Uh. Car

702
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:51,760
Speaker 1: fentanyl is approximately four thousand times as potent as heroin.

703
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: To conceptualize the difference, consider sugar. A sugar cube is

704
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: four grounds, while the standard grocery store bag of sugar

705
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 1: is four pounds or just under two thousand grahams. If

706
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 1: used to smuggle heroin disguised as eight sugar bags through

707
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 1: the airport, you can now smuggle car fentanyl disguised as

708
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: a single, very deadly sugarcube. The only problem is that

709
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: drug dealers are sometimes not good at math, so deluding

710
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 1: the street strength sometimes goes wrong. The same thing has

711
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: been said with other prohibitions. For example, people moved moonshine

712
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 1: instead of beer during the United States alcohol prohibition because

713
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: it's hard to hide a cask of beer in your pants. Uh,

714
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 1: fair point a m resident of Earth. UM. I think

715
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 1: this is fascinating and it seems so obvious now when

716
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 1: we have these issues. I mean, the the intent is

717
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: not to kill your customers. The intent is to UM

718
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 1: make the ever increasingly risky business of moving large quantities

719
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: of drugs UM more worth it, more worth the time

720
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: and fr So the idea is to make your drugs

721
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: more and more potent uh and occupy smaller and smaller packages. Um.

722
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: It's just the same reason Taylor as old as as time,

723
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: you know, cutting drugs with you know, things like baby

724
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 1: lacks that ever or whatever to increase your yield. But

725
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 1: the idea if you're using something like fentanyl is to

726
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: get addicts to be more addicted and also to add

727
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: a little extra zip you know, to the what they're buying,

728
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 1: to keep them coming back for more. Um. You know,

729
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: if you're if you're continuing to dilute the strength of

730
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 1: your drugs, you know, maybe people will move on to

731
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 1: somebody else who sells something that's stronger, you know, more

732
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: more potent um. But this idea of the iron law

733
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 1: of prohibition is absolutely fascinating to me. Guys. As you

734
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 1: heard about this concept before, yeah, but it a um,

735
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 1: it was a tangential mention in a paper. Always reading,

736
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: I'm always surprised to find although folks have observed it

737
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 1: in the past, like dating back, you know, into as

738
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 1: early as the opium Wars, the term itself is relatively recent.

739
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 1: I want to say it's more from the US, the

740
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 1: haitia of the US War on drugs in the in

741
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 1: the eighties. That's right, I think that's right. Um. I

742
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: found a similar paper like and I just wanted to

743
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 1: read the abstract for it. Today's sentinel crisis Prohibitions Iron

744
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 1: Law revisited by Leo Boletski Um and Corey S. Davis,

745
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 1: And here's the abstract. I think this does a really

746
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:29,840
Speaker 1: good job of summing this up. More than a decade

747
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 1: in the making, America's opioid crisis is more from being

748
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 1: driven by prescription drugs to one fueled by heroin and

749
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 1: increasingly fentanyl. Drawing on historical lessons of the era of

750
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 1: national alcohol Prohibition highlights the unintended but predictable impact of

751
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 1: supply side interventions on the dynamics of illicit drug markets.

752
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 1: Under the Iron Law prohibition, efforts to interrupt and suppress

753
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 1: the illicit drug supply produce economic and logistical pressures favoring

754
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 1: ever more compact substitutes. This iatrogenic new worried on me

755
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 1: progression towards increasingly potent illicit drugs can be curtailed only

756
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 1: through evidence based harm reduction and demand reduction policies that

757
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 1: acknowledge the structural determinants of health. So essentially prohibition uh.

758
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 1: While it's intent, I suppose is to protect people from

759
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: themselves or from you know, drugs, UH, the fact of

760
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 1: the matter is um and I read this in an article.

761
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,399
Speaker 1: I can't remember exactly which one, but a really great

762
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,720
Speaker 1: point was that if you're someone who already uses drugs,

763
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: and you're already using cocaine or heroin or and when

764
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 1: you consider like hard drugs, um, you're gonna find it.

765
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 1: Prohibition isn't keeping you from finding these drugs. But as

766
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:52,359
Speaker 1: we've heard, uh, the prohibition is literally created a situation

767
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: where these drugs are ever ever more likely to actually

768
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 1: kill you dead instead of just making you a drug

769
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 1: addict um, which obviously is a horrible thing and has

770
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,360
Speaker 1: implications on people's lives and families and all kinds of

771
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,839
Speaker 1: ripple effects. But uh, you know, you can get help

772
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 1: for being an addict. You can't get help from being dead. UM.

773
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 1: So this is definitely something that's been used in the

774
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:19,359
Speaker 1: argument to um legalize all drugs, because the argument would

775
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: be made like, if someone has made it to you know,

776
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: a certain point in their life without using cocaine or

777
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 1: heroin or or crack or whatever other hard drugs, do

778
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 1: you really think making it legal is going to have

779
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:31,399
Speaker 1: them all of a sudden be like, you know what,

780
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 1: you know what I think I should try heroin, you know,

781
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 1: because it's legal now and I can just pop out

782
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 1: of the store and try me some heroin. I would

783
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:41,240
Speaker 1: certainly be interested in hearing folks opinions on whether that's

784
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 1: oversimplifying it, um, but it certainly seems pretty accurate to me.

785
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 1: Someone's made it, you know, to there to middle Aig

786
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 1: without trying any of these drugs they're around, you know, Um,

787
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: cocaine in particular. I mean, it's almost like socially acceptable

788
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 1: in certain circles. It's like a party drug. Heroin less so.

789
00:47:58,040 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: But if you made it to a certain ada without

790
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 1: trying coke, game, chances are it being legal all of

791
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 1: a sudden. Is it going to make you be like,

792
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,439
Speaker 1: try me some cocaine today? Um? What do you guys think?

793
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 1: I mean, the argument for prohibition literally being a negative

794
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 1: towards people's health when it comes to using these drugs,

795
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 1: prohibition is absolutely a negative towards people's helves. I don't

796
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,399
Speaker 1: I don't think there's a there's a way too, there's

797
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 1: a way to argue against that that would not be

798
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 1: purposely misleading or or in bad faith. You could say that.

799
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 1: Of course, there are a lot of complicating factors if

800
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: all drugs were recreationally legal in the US, um, I

801
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 1: think more people probably would try them at some point.

802
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 1: There would certain that they may be nudged to do it.

803
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 1: Everybody check out our episode out advertising, because if it

804
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 1: becomes recreational, there will be a move to push it.

805
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 1: And then also the expenses that are wrapped up in

806
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 1: the current health care system of the US would lead

807
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 1: to people not being able to afford treatment if they

808
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 1: went into this thing. So I think there's definite um

809
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 1: sand to the argument that prohibition does have a negative

810
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 1: impact on people's health. I mean, you know, everybody seems

811
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 1: to forget that the US knowingly poisoned alcohol during the

812
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 1: Age of Booze and people died from it. So what

813
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 1: was the substance ben that they spiked it with. It

814
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 1: was like, oh gosh, it was like a fuel of

815
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 1: some kind, or it was something that was like a

816
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:33,720
Speaker 1: solvent and they were using it to you know, cut

817
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,439
Speaker 1: the moonshine or the real hard stuff they had, which

818
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 1: again was only more in play than beer because more potent.

819
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,359
Speaker 1: They could move larger quantities of it and make more

820
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 1: bank for their books. But it was something like um

821
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 1: Ethanol wasn't it ethanol or methanol something like that. That

822
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 1: was like literally they were cutting in with it and

823
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 1: it was killing people dead. Yeah, I think the idea

824
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 1: was they could make a law that would require so

825
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 1: a lot of bootleg booze was if I recall this

826
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 1: correctly made from industrial alcohol, right, And the government of

827
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:11,799
Speaker 1: the US at the time said, Okay, the way we're

828
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: going to get people to stop stealing industrial alcohol, to

829
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:18,399
Speaker 1: make rock gut whatever is to create a law that says,

830
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 1: if you're using or producing industrial alcohol, you have to

831
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:27,799
Speaker 1: add the following toxic things to it, these substances that

832
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: we know will hurt people. And the reasoning was the

833
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,240
Speaker 1: reasoning was that this would mean people would know about

834
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 1: this because it was a law, was easily available, it

835
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 1: wasn't a secret, and that that would be enough to

836
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: warn people off the sauce. But that's part of why

837
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 1: I appreciate your earlier points so much when you said,

838
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 1: you know, if someone is addicted to something, or if

839
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 1: they very much want to find it, then they will

840
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 1: find a way to obtain it. I've forgotten that it

841
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 1: was literally the government spiking thet too create like chaos essentially,

842
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 1: or to create as some misinformed like pr campaign like

843
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,839
Speaker 1: see see we told you booze was bad for you. Yeah,

844
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 1: that's because you poisoned it, jerks. I think it was methanol. Yeah, methanol,

845
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 1: that's exactly right. And people who are used to drinking

846
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 1: or you know, also people who made their tremendous fortunes

847
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 1: from drink from selling illegal booze. Uh, we're not deterred.

848
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 1: But but again, it's it's a it's such a complex issue.

849
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 1: The iron law of prohibition is a real thing, and

850
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 1: I think it's something that smugglers have been aware of

851
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:44,800
Speaker 1: for for a long long time before before there was

852
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 1: a lot of scholarly analysis, um put to it. But Matt,

853
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 1: what do you what do you think about this? What's

854
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,879
Speaker 1: your take in general on the idea that prohibition might

855
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 1: accelerate someone or exacerbate some of the problems it seeks

856
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 1: to solve. Oh, it's weird. Um, you guys know this.

857
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 1: I I don't smoke weed, and a lot of the

858
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:10,760
Speaker 1: people around me in my life do. And uh, it's

859
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 1: it's a weird feeling to exist in society when there's

860
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 1: a legal drug that is just assumed to be normal

861
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 1: and regular and fine. But you choose not to do it.

862
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 1: It's a it creates a weird feeling in you where

863
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 1: you know, it's just like social pressures and things like that.

864
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 1: Um And I'm wondering. I was trying. I've literally this

865
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:34,240
Speaker 1: whole time been been thinking of, like, is there any

866
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 1: kind of argument for a prohibition, like for prohibition of

867
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 1: anything like the parental move of no, honey, you can't

868
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 1: have that, you know. Um, I honestly can't think of one.

869
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 1: But I'm just I was just sorry. I've been ruminating

870
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,799
Speaker 1: on that a lot, just trying to imagine what that

871
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 1: would be. Um. And I'm thinking about a kid at

872
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 1: a you know, if you're a parent and cookie like

873
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 1: you're talking about as cookies, like, uh, cookies, you can

874
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:05,319
Speaker 1: have cookies whenever you want them. Here's the cookie jar

875
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: its right here. Take a cookie whenever you want. That

876
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 1: kind of scenario versus a kid that really wants cookies

877
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:14,719
Speaker 1: but you just never have any in the house. If

878
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 1: you say you can never ever have cookies, and you

879
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 1: go through your whole life wondering what cookies are like

880
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 1: and seeing everyone else enjoying cookies, by the time you

881
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 1: maybe step out on your own, you might be cookie

882
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 1: mad and eat so many cookies that you you know,

883
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,840
Speaker 1: like o d on cookies. You know. I'm not saying

884
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 1: that like parents should like you know, encourage moderation when

885
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 1: it comes to drug youth or whatever. But I do

886
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:40,080
Speaker 1: think having open conversations and and educating, uh is a

887
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 1: lot better than fearmongering and and and damning you know,

888
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:47,239
Speaker 1: people that like say, have legitimate addiction problems, and the

889
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:50,760
Speaker 1: idea of stigmatizing addicts versus looking at them as people

890
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 1: that could use some help. And I really do think

891
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:55,319
Speaker 1: with all this spade of all this fentanyl crap and

892
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 1: you know, ending up in so much of the street

893
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 1: supply of stuff, it really does hammer home how how

894
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 1: dangerous that is. Not to mention the black market that's

895
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:06,879
Speaker 1: created by all this This is to oversimplifying a tab

896
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 1: but I don't think too much is what leads to

897
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,880
Speaker 1: all these like drug cartels and all of these like

898
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 1: insane drug wars. And I mean, the War on drugs

899
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 1: a failure. Everyone knows that, um, But I'll tell you

900
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:22,360
Speaker 1: what the real war for drugs is is, you know,

901
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:25,360
Speaker 1: and in these countries where people are literally being decapitated

902
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 1: and you know, just living in fear because of these

903
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:30,720
Speaker 1: drug cartels that like you know, have this iron hold,

904
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:34,800
Speaker 1: and if they didn't have the market of the United States, uh,

905
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:37,360
Speaker 1: they wouldn't have as much of a stronghold. I would argue.

906
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:39,800
Speaker 1: I don't think it would like dismantle them instantly or anything,

907
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: but it certainly would put a dent in their business. Well. Also,

908
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:47,280
Speaker 1: the war on drugs in many ways is a bad

909
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 1: faith argument, by which I mean the people pushing the

910
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:55,720
Speaker 1: war on drugs were often in the US uh dog

911
00:54:55,719 --> 00:55:01,720
Speaker 1: whistling racist dog whistling being a term, and to uh

912
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:06,840
Speaker 1: imply something to a receptive audience in such a way

913
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 1: that the person saying it can deny that they were

914
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 1: supporting some kind of you know, in this instance, racist cause.

915
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:19,839
Speaker 1: But the intended audience clearly understands the signals being sent

916
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 1: and and it's impossible to separate the two. This this

917
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 1: is the other thing, like to your example, Matt, about

918
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:30,520
Speaker 1: how would we handle this kind of stuff? We what

919
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:35,479
Speaker 1: we do know as a civilization overall is that many

920
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 1: of the approaches have not worked, you know what I mean.

921
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:42,280
Speaker 1: The prohibition of marijuana was wrapped up in in racism

922
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 1: very much so. And the idea that oh and then

923
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 1: fellow graduates of the DARE program. We've talked about this

924
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:56,320
Speaker 1: on air. How effective was it for your later recreational

925
00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 1: drug experiments? How effective was it in deter and you

926
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 1: when the local law enforcement officers opened up that little

927
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 1: suitcase or little science fair tripod of various drugs, passed

928
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 1: it around the room, told you what they were, what

929
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 1: they contained, how they are made, and how people use them,

930
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:16,879
Speaker 1: and then kind of added you shouldn't do it. We've

931
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 1: talked about this, but in my mind, I was like,

932
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:20,880
Speaker 1: I want to try that one and that one, and

933
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 1: that one looks cool, and oh that's a neat color,

934
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 1: you know, And it was a weird flex that they

935
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 1: did that, you know. I I want to point you

936
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 1: guys to everyone listening to an episode of the show Psychoactive,

937
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 1: and I think it's the latest one. As we record

938
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 1: this episode seven, I believe you'll you'll find it. It's

939
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 1: an interview with the former President of Columbia, Juan Manuel Santos,

940
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 1: and he discusses a lot of what we're talking about today.

941
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 1: How do you handle this, you know, so called war

942
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 1: on drugs inside a country where many of the drugs

943
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:59,440
Speaker 1: historically were originating or at least one of the avenues

944
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 1: through which the drugs traveled. Um, how do you do that?

945
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:05,720
Speaker 1: As a president of a country, how do you stop

946
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: it without declaring war on you know, the citizens of

947
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 1: your country that are making money and are running businesses.

948
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 1: It just happens to be contrary to the laws. It's yeah,

949
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 1: it's a really fascinating interview. Former Oblivion president Evo Morales

950
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 1: had some some similar things to say. And there's there's

951
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 1: another argument here that I think extends as well to UM.

952
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 1: Two places like Afghanistan or the Golden Triangle where you know,

953
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:39,440
Speaker 1: so much opium is produced. The thing that people sometimes

954
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 1: forget is that every other person living on the planet

955
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 1: is pretty much like you in that they want to

956
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 1: have an okay life, They want to provide for their family,

957
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:52,919
Speaker 1: they want to avoid terrible things happening. There's three very

958
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 1: understandable things. And so if you are, for instance, living

959
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 1: in a very economically to st area and you have

960
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 1: no you know, like no means of income other than

961
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:11,600
Speaker 1: like the reason some agricultural programs of the US have failed,

962
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:13,920
Speaker 1: things where they say, hey, we'll give you another crop

963
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 1: to grow that's not this this crop that can be

964
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:21,200
Speaker 1: turned into an illegal drug. The reason those fail is

965
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 1: because economically they're not as profitable. That's just that's morality aside.

966
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:29,480
Speaker 1: That is one of the big answers, and it's an

967
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 1: answer that would have to be addressed because you're telling

968
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 1: there are some situations where you are you forcing or

969
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: mandate and someone to do that. You're effectively telling them, hey,

970
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 1: we have problems with people you have never met, you

971
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 1: will never meet, and we want you to put your

972
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:51,240
Speaker 1: own livelihood in danger for those people. That's a tough

973
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:55,200
Speaker 1: question to ask. It's something that I think bears diving into.

974
00:58:55,400 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 1: I mean, prohibition is itself the subject of a future show.

975
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 1: I mean, and and it's a topic of extreme, extreme importance.

976
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 1: I love what you guys pointed out about the vilification

977
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:15,840
Speaker 1: of people were struggling with substance abuse, which is itself

978
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:19,919
Speaker 1: that vilification is a profitable thing for certain entities. There's

979
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 1: no way around that. And I would also question the

980
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 1: idea of making all drugs instantly legal because again that

981
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 1: emphasize this point. Again, what would happen is that private

982
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 1: entities who are selling those drugs would be able to

983
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:39,080
Speaker 1: apply enormous not just pure pressure map but enormous social

984
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 1: pressure on people, just the way cigarettes became so popular.

985
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 1: Marketing can be used insidiously, and then you might have

986
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:51,640
Speaker 1: people trying drugs they would ordinarily never try. There might

987
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 1: be a happy pharmaceutic lad, if we want to bring

988
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,880
Speaker 1: it full circle, happy pharmaceutic lad. You're you're looking at

989
00:59:56,920 --> 01:00:00,080
Speaker 1: somebody's feet. Somebody's dancing around in a picnic, right, and

990
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 1: then there's like there's like people high five and and

991
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:05,600
Speaker 1: then you know, fade out from the date music and

992
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:11,960
Speaker 1: it's like and it's dropping off not cocaine, but cocaine

993
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 1: esther all and it drives as it drops it down.

994
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: There's just a blubba dubba burgers rapper at the bottom.

995
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:26,160
Speaker 1: Oh boy. Yeah, sad, but a very important point, you know.

996
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 1: And I'm glad that this is something people are talking about.

997
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:32,760
Speaker 1: I think, I mean, thanks to Resident of Earth, like

998
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 1: this is, this is an issue that has not gone away.

999
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 1: It won't go away. And the one good thing we

1000
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:41,160
Speaker 1: can say is I believe I like to think I

1001
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: don't know about you guys, but I like to think

1002
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:47,960
Speaker 1: that the majority of people who are exploring various facets

1003
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:51,200
Speaker 1: of this issue are doing this with good intentions. I

1004
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:54,080
Speaker 1: like to think that absolutely, and we would love to

1005
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 1: hear your thoughts on all of these issues, whether it

1006
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:02,600
Speaker 1: be weird bird drone owns and their future uses and

1007
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 1: how this affects you on a visceral level like it

1008
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 1: does me um or your feelings on drug prohibition. Is

1009
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:12,520
Speaker 1: it working? Does it work? Is there an argument to

1010
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:17,000
Speaker 1: be made for legalizing all drugs? And additionally, what's your

1011
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 1: what's your take on the idea of quote unquote disease mongering?

1012
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:26,320
Speaker 1: Do you believe that some private pharmaceutical companies have genuinely

1013
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:31,440
Speaker 1: attempted to exaggerate or create medical conditions or is that

1014
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 1: all alarmists? Is that ignoring the struggle of solid and

1015
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:39,520
Speaker 1: quite complicated science. We'd love to hear from you, and

1016
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:42,360
Speaker 1: equally importantly, how do you like your Blooba Dubba Burger.

1017
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:45,280
Speaker 1: Let us know we try to be easy to find online.

1018
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube at

1019
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:54,080
Speaker 1: Conspiracy Stuff on Instagram at Conspiracy Stuff Show. If you

1020
01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 1: don't like that social media stuff though, it is very

1021
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 1: cool and I actually went on our Twitter account for

1022
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 1: the first time in a long time. Ben A all Uh,

1023
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 1: it was really great. Scrolled through for a long time

1024
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:08,520
Speaker 1: just awesome people on Twitter, at least the one is

1025
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 1: talking to us. Thank you, And if you don't want

1026
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 1: to do that stuff, go ahead and give us a call.

1027
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 1: We have a phone number, that's right. The number is

1028
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 1: one eight three three S T D W y t K.

1029
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:22,160
Speaker 1: Leave a message of the sound of Ben's greeting. Um,

1030
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 1: you've got three minutes to tell us your tale or

1031
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:27,040
Speaker 1: your comment or whatever, and make sure to let us

1032
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:29,919
Speaker 1: know what to call you. Nicknames are fine, first names

1033
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:32,240
Speaker 1: are fine, Anonymous is fine. And let us know it's

1034
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:34,439
Speaker 1: okay to use your voice on one of these very

1035
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:36,960
Speaker 1: listener male episodes. And if you don't want to do that,

1036
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 1: we have another way to contact us where you can

1037
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:42,200
Speaker 1: just spill your guts to your heart's content. It is

1038
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 1: a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy and I

1039
01:02:45,680 --> 01:03:06,600
Speaker 1: heart rate you dot com. Yeah. Stuff they don't want

1040
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:08,960
Speaker 1: you to know. Is a production of I heart Radio.

1041
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the I

1042
01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:14,480
Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

1043
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Speaker 1: your favorite shows.