Speaker 1: This is Masters in Business with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: This week on the podcast, I have an extra special guest.
Speaker 1: She is Gene Case, and she is not only a
Speaker 1: former senior executive at America Online from its earliest days,
Speaker 1: she also runs the Case Foundation. Her husband is Steve Case.
Speaker 1: They set this up twenty years ago. And if you
Speaker 1: are all interested in things like technology and impact investing
Speaker 1: and millennials and what the future of philanthropy looks like,
Speaker 1: you're really gonna enjoy this conversation. She not only was
Speaker 1: there in the very early days of internet technology and
Speaker 1: how that ate the world, but she has been on
Speaker 1: the forefront of changing the way people donate money to
Speaker 1: have an effect on on other causes. It's really quite fascinating.
Speaker 1: She's a very very interesting person, so knowledgeable. Uh, this
Speaker 1: was just delightful. With no further ado, my conversation with
Speaker 1: Gene Case, I have an extra special guest today. Her
Speaker 1: name is Gene Case. Gene was a pioneer in the
Speaker 1: world of interactive technologies. She ran the marketing and branding
Speaker 1: effort that launched the AOL service, ran the communications strategy
Speaker 1: for taking the company public, and helped to establish a
Speaker 1: o L as a household brand. Her career spanned for
Speaker 1: decades before she and her husband Steve Case created the
Speaker 1: Case Foundation in Today, she is actively engaged in philanthropy
Speaker 1: and investing. She is CEO of the Case Foundation, Chairman
Speaker 1: of the National Geographic Society Board of Trustees. She serves
Speaker 1: on numerous advisory boards, including the George W. Bush President
Speaker 1: Show Library Centers, Woman's Initiative Policy Advisory Council. She's especially
Speaker 1: interested in millennial engagement, motivating the next generation of entrepreneurs
Speaker 1: and philanthropists. Gene Case, Welcome to Bloomberg. It is a
Speaker 1: pleasure to be here with you, Barry, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: So that's a heck of a CV, and I just
Speaker 1: read part of it. I have to ask a sort
Speaker 1: of obscure question, did you ever have any idea that
Speaker 1: this is how your life was gonna unfold? It's sort
Speaker 1: of an unusual career path. It's a circuitest route. But actually,
Speaker 1: I think when you talk to a lot of folks
Speaker 1: who have achieved some degree of success, if you peel
Speaker 1: back the onion, it's not uncommon that it's a circuitous route.
Speaker 1: Some people talk about it, and some people don't. But
Speaker 1: did I have any idea? You know, there's a part
Speaker 1: of me that would say I did. Actually, I think
Speaker 1: I always dream big and literally every phase of my
Speaker 1: life and worked hard basically to achieve some of the
Speaker 1: dreams that I had. You have a very entrepreneur real background.
Speaker 1: Was that what you're where you began? Is that what
Speaker 1: you thought you would focus on? Was it always? I
Speaker 1: did not know. I actually thought I was going to
Speaker 1: be a lawyer, believe it or not. Sort of my
Speaker 1: true north was empowering people. I thought I would work
Speaker 1: in my life to do what I could to empower others.
Speaker 1: But originally I thought that was going to be via
Speaker 1: the path of a lawyer. Um. But I first came
Speaker 1: to Washington, d C. Where I live, working in the
Speaker 1: Reagan administration. Um. And what would you do for Ronald Reagan?
Speaker 1: I did public affairs? Yeah, well you in the White House? No,
Speaker 1: I was out an agency. Um. But if you remember,
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan was really transforming government as part of what
Speaker 1: he ran on and then what he came in and did.
Speaker 1: And he did have a few communication skills of his own.
Speaker 1: He did I might say he was a brilliant connosicator,
Speaker 1: but probably about a year into that role, I got
Speaker 1: a call from UM, a startup that was outside of
Speaker 1: d C that was focused on what was then called
Speaker 1: an online service, was the first today we call at
Speaker 1: the Internet UM, and I made the leap. So I
Speaker 1: really considered at the time, Gee, you know, if my
Speaker 1: passion really is empowering people, the opportunity to democratize access
Speaker 1: to ideas and information and communication is just too exciting,
Speaker 1: and maybe I can have more impact in the private
Speaker 1: sector than I could if I stayed in the public sector.
Speaker 1: And the name of that initial company was The Source,
Speaker 1: which was one of the first online services. The Source
Speaker 1: and compus Serve were the two early ones. And then
Speaker 1: how did you go from the Source to American Online?
Speaker 1: I believe there were a few there were, so, you know,
Speaker 1: we were a startup, a struggling startup at the Source.
Speaker 1: But I really loved that time UM. But I was
Speaker 1: active in my role there in marketing and GE called
Speaker 1: and they were thinking about getting into the business as well,
Speaker 1: and they recruited me to come to a startup for
Speaker 1: them that was called Genie, and I spent about three
Speaker 1: years there and then I got a call from what
Speaker 1: was to become a O l Um and I made
Speaker 1: the lead back to a startup and that was what
Speaker 1: year that was to A O L. Wow, that's right.
Speaker 1: But my first the first job in UM technology was
Speaker 1: eight two. And it's so funny, you know, I spent
Speaker 1: so much time with millennials and I tell them it
Speaker 1: was two and they look at me like I'd grown
Speaker 1: three heads. I mean, they weren't born there and they
Speaker 1: shooters back then forgetting exactly exactly. That's amazing. So fast
Speaker 1: forward in two thousand and eleven, you and your husband
Speaker 1: Steve Case named as uh two of the best givers
Speaker 1: by Barons. Tell us how you guys transition from entrepreneurship
Speaker 1: and technology startups to philanthropy. Yeah, well, there's sort of
Speaker 1: the personal side that took us there and also sort
Speaker 1: of the trajectory we were on. So very early at
Speaker 1: A O. Well we had decided we would start the
Speaker 1: Well Foundation. It was my job kind of to stand
Speaker 1: that up. UM. So we did that and that was
Speaker 1: kind of our toe in the water around sort of
Speaker 1: more formalized philanthropy. But even by that time we knew
Speaker 1: that personally the success of the company would lead to
Speaker 1: extraordinary wealth, and I think we both knew that to
Speaker 1: who much has given, much is expected. That's how we
Speaker 1: were raised. That's a great phrase. And I think we
Speaker 1: always knew there was no way we would just enjoy
Speaker 1: that wealth in our lifetime. I mean, of course we have,
Speaker 1: but that we would commit most of it to the
Speaker 1: benefit of others. And speaking of committing most of it,
Speaker 1: you and your husband joined the Giving Pledge started by
Speaker 1: Bill and Melinda Gates, to commit to giving away all
Speaker 1: of your wealth. Eventually tell us what the thinking was
Speaker 1: behind that. Yeah, So, as I said, we had really
Speaker 1: made that commitment very early on. And if you look
Speaker 1: at our activities sort of the degree of investment in
Speaker 1: philanthropic things was a clear example that we were basically
Speaker 1: going to give away the majority of our wealth very early.
Speaker 1: So when they formed the Giving Pledge, Melinda called and
Speaker 1: asked if we would be a part of it. And
Speaker 1: it was a little uncomfortable for us, to be honest
Speaker 1: with you, at first. We had to get comfortable with
Speaker 1: the idea of being public about uh, you know, just
Speaker 1: almost having our wealth be a spotlight. Um. But since
Speaker 1: we had already made that decision so many years before
Speaker 1: and we're well on our way, um, we thought, what
Speaker 1: a terrific opportunity to learn and grow together with others
Speaker 1: who want to make a difference, and ultimately that's why
Speaker 1: we decided to go ahead and jump in. And it's
Speaker 1: been a really exciting experience in the sense that we've
Speaker 1: had the opportunity to help lead what's called the Learning Series,
Speaker 1: and since that was really why we got engaged in
Speaker 1: the first place, it's been a wonderful leadership opportunity to
Speaker 1: work with other givers to learn more about different areas
Speaker 1: that we can invest in and hopefully have impact. Tell
Speaker 1: us about the work you actually did for them pre
Speaker 1: I p O as well as pre product launched through
Speaker 1: a few phases we did. We did, Yeah, what starts.
Speaker 1: You know, what the company started as is not really
Speaker 1: what it ended up as. But that's the story of
Speaker 1: so many startups, right, That's the thing that absolutely but
Speaker 1: when we started the American Line service, less than three
Speaker 1: percent of Americans were online, and they were only online
Speaker 1: one hour a week a week. But we were true
Speaker 1: believers that there was really a mass market opportunity and
Speaker 1: as I said earlier, really a powerful opportunity to democratize
Speaker 1: access to really cool stuff for people everywhere. UM, and
Speaker 1: that was the mission we were on and we were
Speaker 1: a very mission focused company. UM. So we launched a well,
Speaker 1: first for the Macintosh in nine and then later for PCs,
Speaker 1: you know, more more traditional PC versions. UM. When we
Speaker 1: went public in our valuation with seventy million dollars, that's astonishing.
Speaker 1: That was really early days. Yes, we were the first
Speaker 1: internet company to go public UM and then later Escape
Speaker 1: is four years later ACT and we later bought an
Speaker 1: Escape as you might recall, UM. But later of course,
Speaker 1: evaluation of the company was a hundred sixty billion at
Speaker 1: the time of the merger. So UM, it was quite
Speaker 1: a rocket ship ride. It was the best performing stock
Speaker 1: of the ninety nineties UM. And I think all of
Speaker 1: us had had the opportunity to be some part of it. Uh,
Speaker 1: look back on it as really truly the opportunity of
Speaker 1: a lifetime. So for me, you know, I kind of thought, wow,
Speaker 1: like where do I go from here? After I left
Speaker 1: the company, Like, are the best days over left? Late?
Speaker 1: I did. I left in the late nineties, And you know,
Speaker 1: the really cool thing is I still feel every day
Speaker 1: as energized and inspired by the work that I get
Speaker 1: to be engaged and as I did back in those
Speaker 1: days in A Well. And it was funny because I
Speaker 1: think for anyone who gets a rocketship ride, you worry
Speaker 1: your best days are over, and you know, often does
Speaker 1: lightning strike twice exactly exactly? And so I feel very
Speaker 1: fortunate that, you know, as my husband and I founded
Speaker 1: our family foundation, the Case Foundation, that we've really been
Speaker 1: able to try to use our talents and our resources
Speaker 1: to have tremendous impact. And it's just a great feeling
Speaker 1: when you wake up every day. You know, at the
Speaker 1: Case Foundation, we say we invest in people, in ideas
Speaker 1: and can change the world. And so that's how I'm
Speaker 1: spending my time and in collaboration with others and with
Speaker 1: a really brilliant team at the Case Foundation. And let
Speaker 1: me tell you it is. Uh. It doesn't just meet
Speaker 1: the A Well experiences. In many ways, it actually has
Speaker 1: surpassed it. So let's let's stay with the theme of
Speaker 1: changing the world and the impact of technology. When you
Speaker 1: go online today, or certainly when I go online today, Amazon, Google, Facebook, Twitter,
Speaker 1: I see huge parallels back to A O. L. Certainly
Speaker 1: the genesis of those companies existed in some question offering
Speaker 1: how often do you look around modern Internet and say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: we did that that traces. Oh I remember when we
Speaker 1: rolled out that. How how parallel is what's taking place today.
Speaker 1: You know, we have the benefit of knowing some of
Speaker 1: these founders, of course, and you know, Mark Zuckerberg will
Speaker 1: tell you he got his teeth hacking a O l U.
Speaker 1: The Twitter founders will tell you they were inspired by
Speaker 1: sort of what A Well didn't get right, which was
Speaker 1: sort of the real time messaging back and forth. But
Speaker 1: that real time messaging was tremendous with it was no
Speaker 1: question it was a huge business for us UM and Facebook.
Speaker 1: You know, we used to have these things called member pages.
Speaker 1: But you know, back in that era of technology, anonymity
Speaker 1: was actually valued. It was less about you know, telling
Speaker 1: who you were. Oh my god. You never say where
Speaker 1: you were what you were doing. So it's fun to
Speaker 1: look back. I mean, you know, I've been in technology
Speaker 1: long enough to remember when people thought it would be
Speaker 1: crazy that you'd ever give your credit card online for anything,
Speaker 1: And now they ask Amazon to police store it for
Speaker 1: him and suggest things to buy. So we've seen these
Speaker 1: technology trends come and I think it's the nature of innovation,
Speaker 1: UM and revolutions that it's iterative, right, And so we're
Speaker 1: thrilled that these next gen companies have come along and
Speaker 1: taken what was really a vision of ours, even further
Speaker 1: sad that we missed it. You know, we should have
Speaker 1: been the Google, We should have been the Twitter, we
Speaker 1: should have been the Facebook. But really happy for them
Speaker 1: that you know, they've locked on it and they're doing
Speaker 1: something great. Isn't that the nature of of both technology
Speaker 1: and the innovator's dilemma that when any company achieves a
Speaker 1: huge success in one area, you could pivot when you're small,
Speaker 1: you can from your startup, But how do you pivot
Speaker 1: when you say, hey, we're worth a hundred plus billion dollars,
Speaker 1: let's completely revamp what got us here, no question. And
Speaker 1: you know, we have this work at the Case Foundation
Speaker 1: where we've looked at principles that are present where there's
Speaker 1: innovation and breakthrough transformation. And I spend a lot of
Speaker 1: time with big institutions teaching these principles. They're known under
Speaker 1: our term be fearless. And you know, we use examples
Speaker 1: like a Well that we just talked about, but also
Speaker 1: like Kodak. You know, Kodak invented digital photography, but they
Speaker 1: were making so much money off of that film from
Speaker 1: the old cameras that they really wouldn't invest in the
Speaker 1: new radical digital photography. And what happened, others came along
Speaker 1: ate their lunch. The company, you know, really kind of
Speaker 1: went by by in the early two thousand's how much
Speaker 1: how much film is sold today, it's it's and yet
Speaker 1: when you look at the digital world, it's really difficult
Speaker 1: to say, this is our bread and butter. Now that's destroyed, right, right,
Speaker 1: So it's so important to keep innovating. It's so important
Speaker 1: to you know, not let yourself get too comfortable, whether
Speaker 1: you're an individual, by the way, or whether you're an institution.
Speaker 1: I think that's when, um, you know that, that's when
Speaker 1: you start to lose ground. Uh, if you're not constantly
Speaker 1: moving forward. So you were gone from American Line by
Speaker 1: the time the huge Time Warner deal took place. Did
Speaker 1: you have any thoughts of it? Were you kind of
Speaker 1: and I'm I assume this is coffee table talk at home,
Speaker 1: But do you ever look at that transaction and say, gee,
Speaker 1: this is a giant thing that's so different than what
Speaker 1: got us here, or okay, this is we're sort of
Speaker 1: a media company this is a logical next step. How
Speaker 1: did you we all have the benefit of hindsight, how
Speaker 1: did you How did that look to a recent graduate
Speaker 1: from a O L who was no longer on the inside. Well,
Speaker 1: of course, you know, my husband was chairman of the
Speaker 1: merged company, so I probably had a little bit of
Speaker 1: a bias insight on the matter. Um, But you know,
Speaker 1: I really think that it was the right vision. And
Speaker 1: you know, as my husband talks about it, because he
Speaker 1: obviously was in a leadership role that took it forward.
Speaker 1: You know, I just I think we were very disappointed
Speaker 1: that the execution wasn't there. Um, But you know, uh,
Speaker 1: we move on, and as I said, we've really been
Speaker 1: excited by this opportunity in this chapter that's open for
Speaker 1: us to look at innovation, to invest in entrepreneurs, to
Speaker 1: drive impact more broadly in society. So at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, uh, we feel pretty good. Let's talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about the Case Foundation. You just passed
Speaker 1: the twentieth anniversary of establishing this. What is it like
Speaker 1: running a large philanthropic firm with your mission? You know,
Speaker 1: it's really exciting, but I have to tell you it
Speaker 1: kind of blows my mind to think we've been at
Speaker 1: this twenty years. For me, that's the longest I've ever
Speaker 1: spent in one job. UM, and those twenty years really
Speaker 1: did fly by. UM. But it has been exciting. I
Speaker 1: think it's enabled us to take what we believe are
Speaker 1: our areas of expertise. You know, technology has been a
Speaker 1: keep part of what we've done at the Case Foundation,
Speaker 1: trying to figure out a way to best leverage technology
Speaker 1: to drive greater good and impact out in society. UM.
Speaker 1: But it's been a terrific ride and we've really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: And I think really from the get go, we decided
Speaker 1: we didn't want to go it alone. This was not
Speaker 1: going to be about us writing checks. This was going
Speaker 1: to be about trying to have a catalytic institution UM
Speaker 1: that would bring others along and collaborate with others. And
Speaker 1: because of that, we feel really good about the impacts
Speaker 1: we've been able to have. So let's talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about venture backed startups. You have some amazing statistics
Speaker 1: on the on the Case Foundation site. Only ten percent
Speaker 1: of venture backed companies had a female founder. That's correct,
Speaker 1: only one percent had an African American founder. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: this is why we're so passionate about this area we
Speaker 1: call inclusive entrepreneurship, you know. And we would add some data,
Speaker 1: by the way, and that is that last year, seventy
Speaker 1: eight percent of injury capital went to just three places,
Speaker 1: New York, Massachusetts, and California. So we're really pulling putting
Speaker 1: all of our eggs into a few baskets here, and
Speaker 1: that's never a smart idea when it comes to UH
Speaker 1: finance and opportunity UM so unknowingly that means folks have
Speaker 1: kind of been left behind, you know, Like when we
Speaker 1: saw the results of UM the election last year and
Speaker 1: we heard from voters, you know, some of the media
Speaker 1: described it as they feel left behind, but when you
Speaker 1: look at data like that, no, the reality is they
Speaker 1: have been left behind by terrific opportunities and it hasn't
Speaker 1: served our nation well. So what we see is, you know,
Speaker 1: with entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs live problems, and usually these great companies
Speaker 1: that come forward are a result of finding solutions to
Speaker 1: personal problems they've lived. So we just see a terrific
Speaker 1: and powerful economic opportunity to bring women and people of
Speaker 1: color into the mix, as well as people who live
Speaker 1: between the coasts, and who knows the kind of innovations
Speaker 1: that will come forward, chances are they will more broadly
Speaker 1: serve society because they're not just the elites on the coast,
Speaker 1: you know, taking what is already a pretty comfortable life
Speaker 1: and making it more comfortable for some of us. We
Speaker 1: really need people jumping in and building new products and
Speaker 1: services that will address uh, you know, the needs of
Speaker 1: citizens more broadly. So let me press you a little
Speaker 1: bit and say, what can a foundation or a philanthropy
Speaker 1: due to help level the playing field for every So
Speaker 1: this area of impact investing, it's a funny term, and
Speaker 1: we should, you know, probably talk about what we what
Speaker 1: we mean when we say that. But in its simplest form,
Speaker 1: we think of it as new ways to solve old problems.
Speaker 1: Essentially now using capital and using mentorship of entrepreneurs um
Speaker 1: to drive new kinds of companies that are specifically focused
Speaker 1: on bringing benefit to society. So we say, for it
Speaker 1: to be an impact investment, it must have both a
Speaker 1: financial and a social return. So these aren't just do
Speaker 1: good kind of investments, Easier investments that can have the
Speaker 1: promise of a market rate return while at the same
Speaker 1: time providing a social benefit. So essentially the thought process
Speaker 1: is companies, technologies, businesses have such an outsize impact on
Speaker 1: the way society functions. We don't want to just have
Speaker 1: a little philanthropy that responds to a little bit of
Speaker 1: an issue. We want to broader societal change, right And frankly,
Speaker 1: I mean where economic power comes from is the private sector.
Speaker 1: And when I first got engaged in philanthropy full time,
Speaker 1: it really bothered me that we were looking at you know,
Speaker 1: long entrenched dogging problems and we had teams around a table,
Speaker 1: so it was a good collaborative, but it was like
Speaker 1: there were missing chairs, and those missing chairs were entrepreneurs.
Speaker 1: And boy, I'll tell you, if you want to find
Speaker 1: innovative ways forward, ask an entrepreneur to think about a problem.
Speaker 1: So we're really excited about the opportunity to bring these
Speaker 1: sectors that have mostly been left on the sidelines as
Speaker 1: we think about big social challenges, inviting them into the
Speaker 1: tent and really calling them to do what they do well.
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, ultimately there's no amount of
Speaker 1: philanthropy that can really address the challenges that we have
Speaker 1: in the world today. We need all sectors working together,
Speaker 1: and we're really excited by what some of the entrepreneurs
Speaker 1: away they're thinking and what they're bringing to the table.
Speaker 1: Let's define that term, perhaps for people who may not
Speaker 1: know what it means. What is impact investment? Sure, well,
Speaker 1: you know, as I said, I we define it as
Speaker 1: a class of investments that provide for investors both a
Speaker 1: social and a financial reach turn, with the social piece
Speaker 1: being kind of what's new about impact investing. But it
Speaker 1: might make more sense if I just talk a bit
Speaker 1: about what kind of companies we're looking at here when
Speaker 1: we talk about impact investing. So we've been invested in
Speaker 1: a young company called Revolution Foods on the West Coast.
Speaker 1: And essentially these are two moms who looked at the
Speaker 1: school system and saw two very talented moms. So I
Speaker 1: must to tell you very well educated mobs um who
Speaker 1: looked at the school system and realized basically it was
Speaker 1: junk being served to kids, particularly in low income communities.
Speaker 1: When hcat all the stuff we really don't want to
Speaker 1: be pumping into our young children. And by the way,
Speaker 1: the same kind of food that doesn't lead to good
Speaker 1: outcomes in the classroom, right, it doesn't power them the
Speaker 1: way they need to be powered to perform at peak.
Speaker 1: So they said, we can do something about that, and
Speaker 1: they started this company, Revolution Foods, and today they've served
Speaker 1: millions of um healthy they call them chef crafted kid
Speaker 1: inspired meals. I've been in schools and seen the chill
Speaker 1: and eating these meals and enjoying them um. And it's
Speaker 1: you know, called Revolution Foods for a reason. Who knew
Speaker 1: was revolutionary to bring healthy foods into our public schools.
Speaker 1: So they act as a contractor providing they does that
Speaker 1: scale is that spread? It has scaled dramatically, as I said,
Speaker 1: they've now they're in a number of different markets. They've
Speaker 1: served millions of these healthy foods um. And in addition,
Speaker 1: you know, they have a job strategy to try to
Speaker 1: bring in some job training and employ those that have
Speaker 1: been left out of the job culture. So they've added
Speaker 1: like a thousand new jobs. It's really it's quite a story.
Speaker 1: But it's a great example of an impact company. And
Speaker 1: we're very excited about their growth. And you know, Fast
Speaker 1: Company named them one of the most innovative companies in America.
Speaker 1: So they're getting recognition out there in the market for
Speaker 1: what they're doing. But another example is a company called
Speaker 1: blend Or started by an African American female Stephanie Lampkin
Speaker 1: blend or works with big companies that are in tech
Speaker 1: to blind the resume data in such a way that
Speaker 1: you can you can't detect the gender, nor can you
Speaker 1: detect the background of the person based on the kind
Speaker 1: of name or whatever. And it's a real algorithmically driven,
Speaker 1: scaled approach to trying to help these tech companies who
Speaker 1: actually want to diversify in many cases, but they know
Speaker 1: that implicit bias exists along the reviewer line as as
Speaker 1: resumes come in. So this blinds that data out of
Speaker 1: the resume, so you're really just getting the pure accomplishments
Speaker 1: of the candidates. And it's had a dramatic impact in
Speaker 1: the companies they've worked with, many of which we know Microsoft, etcetera,
Speaker 1: um in terms of changing the ratio of new tech employees.
Speaker 1: You know that that reminds me of what a number
Speaker 1: of orchestras have done with their process of blind behind
Speaker 1: the curtain and suddenly it's a much more diverse Exactly,
Speaker 1: that's exactly right, and so that's what she's setting out
Speaker 1: to do. But as I said earlier, I think as
Speaker 1: we bring people from low income environments in, as we
Speaker 1: bring people of color, different backgrounds, etcetera. The kind of
Speaker 1: innovation we're gonna see are just going to be different
Speaker 1: than what the same class of mostly elite white males
Speaker 1: on the coasts have been building. Nothing wrong with those,
Speaker 1: We celebrate them. We've talked about a lot of them
Speaker 1: in this conversation, but we just need to mix it up.
Speaker 1: So you have a descriptor about the sorts of investments
Speaker 1: you make, and I want to ask you about these
Speaker 1: three conditions intentionality, transparency, and measurement. Right tells sure, Well,
Speaker 1: when we talk about impact investing, we say those three
Speaker 1: conditions must be present. Intentionality basically says, look, you have
Speaker 1: to be clear about what impact are you intending to have,
Speaker 1: right so, and that intentionality has to be baked in
Speaker 1: to the way your business plan is going forward. You
Speaker 1: have to commit to measure it because we can all say, hey,
Speaker 1: you know, I want to like serve more healthy meals,
Speaker 1: but if we don't have a means of clear measurement
Speaker 1: around that impact, it doesn't really matter. And then the
Speaker 1: last is transparency, and there there really has to be
Speaker 1: a Kumbaya moment between the company and the investors to
Speaker 1: say we're going to make public and be transparent about
Speaker 1: the impact and the measurement. So let's talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about impact investing and E s G investing. What
Speaker 1: is the Case Foundation doing with its portfolio? Sure, so
Speaker 1: you know, the Case Foundation is using its resources to
Speaker 1: be a catalyst in the movement. More broadly, we are
Speaker 1: using personal resources to do the investments. Um, and I
Speaker 1: have a portfolio that I am taking to impact across
Speaker 1: all asset classes. And what does that look like in
Speaker 1: real life? Okay, So it's messy and it's hard, and
Speaker 1: it's going to take a lot longer than I thought.
Speaker 1: And it's funny, you know, because I often speak on
Speaker 1: impact investing, I teach in business schools, etcetera. And then
Speaker 1: this idea that Okay, I'm gonna personally walk the walk
Speaker 1: in a very real way. I think I've learned a lot.
Speaker 1: But you know, uh, what we see today are some
Speaker 1: terrific sort of deal flow opportunities out there. But we
Speaker 1: also see some funds, some layers washing themselves as impact.
Speaker 1: But then when you ask those really pointed questions about
Speaker 1: what is your intentional impact? What are you doing to
Speaker 1: measure it? And you know, what have you reported against
Speaker 1: your impact? Sometimes things fall down. So I've seen a
Speaker 1: lot of deals, you know, brought to the table that
Speaker 1: you know, you kind of shake your head and say, sorry,
Speaker 1: it just does not make the cut. And I think
Speaker 1: that's something we have to be a little careful about
Speaker 1: in this early phase of impact investing in the movement
Speaker 1: more broadly, is to really ask the hard questions around
Speaker 1: this intentionality, measurement and transparency to make sure people aren't
Speaker 1: what we call kind of greenwashing what they're doing. So, so,
Speaker 1: how do you measure the impact of a portfolio and investment?
Speaker 1: A last year, the big et F that rolled out
Speaker 1: was she Um, which was put together with I believe
Speaker 1: it was Calisters and State Street. Calisters is still the
Speaker 1: lion share of the assets that are invested. Can those
Speaker 1: sort of investments have an impact or is it just
Speaker 1: a little bit of mind share and not a whole
Speaker 1: lot more so, you know, we published something called the
Speaker 1: Short Guide to Impact Investing, which can be found on
Speaker 1: case foundation dot org, and they're what we say is
Speaker 1: there just needs to be a match between the intentionality
Speaker 1: of the investor and the investee. And in this early
Speaker 1: days of impact investing, I don't think we should draw
Speaker 1: too tight a box What I think is more relevant
Speaker 1: is making sure that the impact you're seeking through an investment,
Speaker 1: there is a means to measure it and report it.
Speaker 1: So you said, how do you judge you know, the
Speaker 1: impact of a portfolio today? I think the way that
Speaker 1: it makes the most sense is literally deal by deal,
Speaker 1: because impact is going to look different with every investment
Speaker 1: that you make. The key is knowing what their intention
Speaker 1: is and yours is, and making sure there's a measurement
Speaker 1: and transparency to report it. So you're on the board
Speaker 1: of directors of the National Geographic um Society. Correct your cherson,
Speaker 1: I am the chairman. So let's the E and e
Speaker 1: s G is environmental. Yes, how do you measure the
Speaker 1: impact of that when the damage has been done over
Speaker 1: a century and the curative or at least the reduction
Speaker 1: of future damage could take decades to measure? Or Am
Speaker 1: I being too pessimistic? You know, I don't think you're
Speaker 1: being too pessimistic. I'm more optimistic than you are because
Speaker 1: I think how a lot of these things work. As
Speaker 1: new technologies will come along, they will create a faster
Speaker 1: path to impact. But I you know, I just I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm repeating myself. But I think the most
Speaker 1: important thing, and this is true you know for Investment
Speaker 1: Committee at National Geographic Society as well as on our
Speaker 1: personal investment front, is to make sure at the time
Speaker 1: we're making the impact investment, we understand what the commitment
Speaker 1: and the intentionality is around what we're trying to impact,
Speaker 1: and that there's a means to report it out. So
Speaker 1: you know, in some cases you may not actually see
Speaker 1: impacts for the first year or two. It may but
Speaker 1: the key is having this and I said it is
Speaker 1: come by a moment to make sure you know what
Speaker 1: you're investing in, you know what the expectation is for
Speaker 1: how those impacts are going to report. Now, let me
Speaker 1: just say a word on the National Geographic Society and
Speaker 1: sort of the whole impact investing realm around it. UM.
Speaker 1: It's hunter twenty nine year old institution. We have a
Speaker 1: one point three billion dollar endowment. Um. You know, we
Speaker 1: grant tens of millions of dollars out into the world
Speaker 1: every year. And you know, we really had to step
Speaker 1: back and say, look, grants are really powerful and they
Speaker 1: do really important things. But today there's a whole new
Speaker 1: generation of companies being born and taken forward that are
Speaker 1: also assisting in exploration and science in the environment, etcetera.
Speaker 1: So now we've added to our portfolio not just grants,
Speaker 1: but investments in these young companies that are also very
Speaker 1: consistent with our mission. And I would say to people
Speaker 1: out there who have portfolios, if they're in the companies,
Speaker 1: if they have endowments, whatever, I think it's really important
Speaker 1: to use this kind of investing as another tool, kind
Speaker 1: of in your toolkit as to how you can change
Speaker 1: the world. We have been speaking with Gene Case. She
Speaker 1: was a senior executive at America on Line and now
Speaker 1: runs the Case Foundation. UH. If you enjoy this conversation,
Speaker 1: be sure and stick around for the podcast extras, where
Speaker 1: we keep the tape rolling and continue discussing all things
Speaker 1: technology and philanthropy. Be sure and check out my daily
Speaker 1: column on Bloomberg View dot com. Follow me on Twitter
Speaker 1: at rit Halts. We love your comments, feedback, end suggestions
Speaker 1: right to us at m IB podcast at Bloomberg dot net.
Speaker 1: I'm Barry Hults. You're listening to Masters and Business on
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. Welcome to the podcast. I am here with
Speaker 1: Gene Case. Gene, thank you so much for doing this.
Speaker 1: I have so many questions for you, then let's go.
Speaker 1: I'm enjoying, so let's let's let's jump into this with um.
Speaker 1: The one question I missed in the beginning how impactful
Speaker 1: can philanthropy be? And what I mean by that is
Speaker 1: how long does it take to really move the needle
Speaker 1: and see the results of your work? If it was
Speaker 1: really easy, it was just writing a check, Hey, we
Speaker 1: would have changed the world in a long time ago. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: it's really important to understand that to be most impactful
Speaker 1: and sort of the change the world arena, it really
Speaker 1: just can't stop at check writing. Check writing by itself
Speaker 1: is not going to transform anything. I think where we've
Speaker 1: seen transformational change is when people are all in, when
Speaker 1: they bring their networks, their resources, you know, their skills. Um,
Speaker 1: just there's there's no stopping sort of what they bring
Speaker 1: to the party beyond the check writing. And by the way,
Speaker 1: we think collaboration is something and I'll say in my
Speaker 1: twenty years in this there's really good news on that front. Today,
Speaker 1: I think it's better understood that we're better together than
Speaker 1: just taking that sort of name on bricks and feeling
Speaker 1: proud that we wrote some big check right, that working
Speaker 1: together as partners is how we see moving the needle.
Speaker 1: So when you say collaborations it between different foundations, is
Speaker 1: it between the private sector and the problem. So I'll
Speaker 1: speak to the Case foundation, but I am seeing it
Speaker 1: more broadly, okay, Um. We have always been about cross
Speaker 1: sector collaboration. So for big initiatives, we require a private
Speaker 1: sector partner, we require a public sector partner and hopefully
Speaker 1: other philanthropies alongside with us, and of course a nonprofit
Speaker 1: UH partner as well. Private and a public sector partner
Speaker 1: in order to make them absolutely investment absolutely, And we've
Speaker 1: helped lead some major initiatives where we can point to
Speaker 1: impact and say, you know, wow, that happened because we
Speaker 1: were better together. Each brought his or her own strength
Speaker 1: to the table and and our be fearless work that
Speaker 1: I referenced earlier, this idea we call it reach beyond
Speaker 1: your Bubble, which has built a really big table. Ask
Speaker 1: who's not at the table, what voices aren't being heard,
Speaker 1: and get them around the table. And typically where there's
Speaker 1: a very diverse collaborative team at work, that's where we've
Speaker 1: seen breakthroughs. It usually isn't sort of the one soul
Speaker 1: player with a really strong mission believing he or she
Speaker 1: alone can change the world. That's just not how it happens.
Speaker 1: And the good news is with the millennial generation, collaboration
Speaker 1: you know is in their d n A. That's just
Speaker 1: how they think about the world. It's very different really
Speaker 1: than the world that I grew up in, where you know,
Speaker 1: I think silos existed to them, they're open arms to
Speaker 1: anybody that can help like get them to their goals.
Speaker 1: And so I think that's starting to find its way
Speaker 1: into the culture of institutions across the nation. So I
Speaker 1: want to talk more about the millennials, but before I
Speaker 1: get to that, I have to bring up be Fearless principles, right, Fearless?
Speaker 1: That really sounds like a best selling book title. What
Speaker 1: what's the plans with the with the book for that? Well,
Speaker 1: I am writing a book. I am fresh from two
Speaker 1: weeks away where I just went all by myself and
Speaker 1: wrote for two weeks. So can I can I suggest
Speaker 1: be Fearless as a title, because I think that's a winner,
Speaker 1: so um as I. So it is work that we've
Speaker 1: had underweight the Foundation for quite some time, and we've
Speaker 1: literally worked with thousands of people around the country to
Speaker 1: teach the principles and again they're really principles of innovation.
Speaker 1: And let me give you an example of you know
Speaker 1: what they represent. The first is make big bets and
Speaker 1: make history and the ideas. Don't accept incremental change. You know,
Speaker 1: have a big idea and chase it and put together
Speaker 1: what's necessary to make that real. That sounds a little
Speaker 1: like the big b hag. Yes, exactly, big hairy, audacious goals.
Speaker 1: It's very similar to that. Um. The second principle is
Speaker 1: experiment early and often take risks. Be bold. And here's
Speaker 1: where you see old line institutions get really nervous berrys
Speaker 1: when we start talking about risk take king. They literally
Speaker 1: can say it's too risky to take risks, to which
Speaker 1: I say, okay. But if you look at any transformational
Speaker 1: company or institution, you know what you will see is
Speaker 1: they looked at it as R and D as necessary
Speaker 1: focus on the next thing and putting some degree of
Speaker 1: resource or investment into that. So you know, this risk
Speaker 1: taking you can always see when you have an uncomfortable
Speaker 1: audience like what do you mean risk? Like, I you know,
Speaker 1: I want to stay comfortable. I love I love the
Speaker 1: Jeff Bezos of Amazon quote, which is and I'm mangling this.
Speaker 1: If we're not failing, well, then we're doing something wrong
Speaker 1: because it means we're just making safe bets. And what's
Speaker 1: the value of that, right? And you know, we have
Speaker 1: so many great quotes that we use, but Albert Einstein
Speaker 1: said failure is success in progress. But think about it
Speaker 1: as institutions and individuals. We don't look at it that way.
Speaker 1: There's a tendency to hang your head. But I hang
Speaker 1: out with entrepreneurs right, and they count their failures almost
Speaker 1: as badges. And I'll be much quicker to invest in
Speaker 1: an entrepreneur that's on his third startup after two failed
Speaker 1: or her third start up after two failed. Um, then
Speaker 1: I would someone starting for the first time, because I
Speaker 1: know those failures have really made them better, have taught
Speaker 1: them things, and now they can go further. So that's
Speaker 1: our third principle, which is make failure matter. That's really
Speaker 1: interesting when when I have conversations with Europeans about the
Speaker 1: differences between American and europe I happen to love their
Speaker 1: approach to life work balance. We kinda over emphasized work here.
Speaker 1: They are wholly perplexed by our embracement of failure. A
Speaker 1: disaster a startup that goes belly up is sort of
Speaker 1: fatal there. Absolutely for us, it's like, well, you get up,
Speaker 1: you brush yourself off, you start. Oh. It's such a
Speaker 1: cultural difference, such a philosophical difference, and to some degree
Speaker 1: accounts for the success of them, because entrepreneurial sector, right,
Speaker 1: But I think it's on all of us, in particularly
Speaker 1: anyone who's you know, achieved some kind of success, to
Speaker 1: be more transparent about, you know, the failures that got
Speaker 1: us there, because too often, I think, and sometimes when
Speaker 1: I'm in front of college students, I haven't done this
Speaker 1: in a while, I'll have to pull it out again. Um,
Speaker 1: when I'm in front of college students, you know, they'll
Speaker 1: read this illustrious bio that makes it sound like everything
Speaker 1: was so perfect and it was just you know, one
Speaker 1: step step after the other, etcetera. And then I come
Speaker 1: forward and I say, now, let me read you my
Speaker 1: failure resume, and I talk about how that happened because
Speaker 1: this failed over here, or it was a failure at
Speaker 1: that that led to this. And I think sometimes people
Speaker 1: are less comfortable talking about their failure back and we
Speaker 1: do a disservice to the next generation because they're left
Speaker 1: to believe. Oh my gosh, if this has happened, is
Speaker 1: it over for me? UM, So I think it's really
Speaker 1: important to talk about failure. And so, you know, we
Speaker 1: make a point at the case Foundation of UH talking
Speaker 1: about our failures and it was really a watershed moment
Speaker 1: as part of this be Fearless work where we said,
Speaker 1: from now on, whenever we publish anything, we're going to
Speaker 1: publish what failed as well as what was successful. UM
Speaker 1: And we started holding fail fests around at different places,
Speaker 1: sail fest where we would encourage people to talk about failure,
Speaker 1: said had in the nonprofit. In the public sector, it
Speaker 1: can be called waste, fraud and abuse if you're not careful,
Speaker 1: if you've tried something and it failed. We need to
Speaker 1: get rid of that culture. We need to encourage more
Speaker 1: risk taking and understand that you know, if it is
Speaker 1: risk taking, it means you don't know for sure that
Speaker 1: it's going to be a success, but you're trying something big.
Speaker 1: One of my favorite pages that venture capital websites post
Speaker 1: are their list of things we missed. Hey, we're given
Speaker 1: an opportunity to invest in Google and Uber and right
Speaker 1: and we just thought these were terrible, Like dais and
Speaker 1: we blew it, and there's something refreshing about people just
Speaker 1: being honest about Nope, I couldn't quite see that, and
Speaker 1: it turned out I was wrong, absolutely. And you know,
Speaker 1: we like to tell the story of Airbnb right when
Speaker 1: they were pitching to some of those really celebrated investment
Speaker 1: firms and they go, what people are going to stay
Speaker 1: in the homes of total strangers? Never gonna happen, right,
Speaker 1: And then you look at that model in Uber, they're
Speaker 1: really not that far apart. Taxis one exactly exactly you
Speaker 1: would have thought if you if you saw one, you
Speaker 1: should have seen the other one. That's pretty interesting. Let's
Speaker 1: talk one last point on impact investing. I have to
Speaker 1: ask you about you're you you reference on the site.
Speaker 1: In alone, it grew to a hundred and eighteen billion
Speaker 1: dollars in impacted assets under management, and you note we
Speaker 1: still haven't hit the tipping point for impact investment. So
Speaker 1: so how large can this get and where is the
Speaker 1: tipping point for E s G and or impact investing? Well?
Speaker 1: I think E s G S tipping point is coming
Speaker 1: a lot faster and we're a lot closer just given
Speaker 1: the scale of E s G. But impact investing specifically,
Speaker 1: how big can it get? It can be the definition
Speaker 1: of investment where impact goes away. So we've talked a
Speaker 1: lot about millennials, Um, we haven't talked about, you know,
Speaker 1: the transfer of wealth that's coming in the tens of
Speaker 1: trillions of dollars. And then they so you know, between
Speaker 1: women and millennials, they're gonna they're gonna control in a
Speaker 1: very large purse in the United States, will drive where
Speaker 1: investments are going. Um. And you know, if you talk
Speaker 1: to women and you talk to millennials today, they're not
Speaker 1: only conscious consumers, they're conscious investors. And the banks know
Speaker 1: it's kind of an open secret. Now they're feeling the
Speaker 1: pressure of these two groups kind of nipping at the
Speaker 1: heels of the current established investment community saying where are
Speaker 1: the deals that are that bring you know, social return
Speaker 1: as well as financial return. So of course it's a
Speaker 1: big idea to say all investing, you know, impact investing
Speaker 1: will be all investing a tipping point. I'm pretty optimistic.
Speaker 1: I think we're going to see that in the coming years.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, somewhere in the two to three
Speaker 1: year I believe we'll see a tipping point in impact
Speaker 1: investing UM. But you know what I do feel good
Speaker 1: about is there's been tremendous traction and momentum already just
Speaker 1: in the years we've been focused on it UM. And
Speaker 1: it's hard to predict these things. There's a fascinating book
Speaker 1: by UM professor Meyer's Stateman out in Santa Clara, California,
Speaker 1: called One Investors Really Want and a decade before this
Speaker 1: really picked up. He discussed how people want their investments
Speaker 1: in their portfolios to reflect not only their character and personality,
Speaker 1: but their values, their beliefs, and what they want to
Speaker 1: accomplish the world beyond outpacing inflation and saving for environment.
Speaker 1: And as e s G and impact gets more and more,
Speaker 1: UM finds more and more resonance. It's clear he was
Speaker 1: really onto something long before a lot of other people.
Speaker 1: I've seen that. I think that's right. And you know,
Speaker 1: you look at sort of who the players are that
Speaker 1: have come into the market, right, and it's really quite impressive.
Speaker 1: I mean, we have Goldman participating with Baine black Rock.
Speaker 1: I mean these are marquee names. We have marquee investors
Speaker 1: all over this space as well. And then you have
Speaker 1: something like the TPG Rise Fund that came along, which
Speaker 1: is a two billion dollar fund. I think some of
Speaker 1: us would have said in the last year or two,
Speaker 1: we're not sure we're going to see that level of
Speaker 1: scale and a fund that, you know, the Rise Fund
Speaker 1: has brought. So there's a lot to look at watch
Speaker 1: for that I think will play a role in driving
Speaker 1: how quickly this goes to mainstream. Let's talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about UM millennials. That's something, uh, you focus on
Speaker 1: a little bit. We do there there was a UM.
Speaker 1: So first of all, there are more twenty six year
Speaker 1: olds in the United States than any other single age.
Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about the work you're doing
Speaker 1: with millennials. Sure, well, for nearly a decade now we
Speaker 1: have tracked the perceptions and attitudes of millennials around impact
Speaker 1: UM and each year we pick a different sort of
Speaker 1: area to focus on. For instance, we've done some years
Speaker 1: at our workplace focused where no big surprise, you know,
Speaker 1: they want from their employers focus on more than just
Speaker 1: you know, the bottom line that they will actually take
Speaker 1: in some cases of pay cut to work with the
Speaker 1: company that they believe is more about benefiting society and
Speaker 1: then say another offer that they have, ETCeteras that impact
Speaker 1: careerism or how would you really describe that? You know,
Speaker 1: what I would say is, I would say it's more
Speaker 1: kind of values aligned that um. And we've been working
Speaker 1: with companies for some number of years in our work
Speaker 1: with millennials, you know, because they understand that to attract
Speaker 1: and retain this next generation, they can't just be doing
Speaker 1: business the same old way. I mean for their conscious consumers.
Speaker 1: So if they're selling their products in a consumer market,
Speaker 1: they you know, they can't just look like they're all
Speaker 1: about profit. They have to have some you know, deeper,
Speaker 1: richer role in society that they can articulate. And the
Speaker 1: same is true for attracting best in class talent and
Speaker 1: then retaining them. So there's a statu you have that
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I guess I shouldn't be surprised at but
Speaker 1: the numbers are kind of overwhelming. Of millennials believe the
Speaker 1: US is going in the wrong direction or aren't sure
Speaker 1: what direction we're going in only believe the US is
Speaker 1: going in the right direction. First question is those numbers
Speaker 1: are astonishing, what do they mean? And second question is
Speaker 1: that a big change from recent or not so recent history.
Speaker 1: Has the younger generation always kind of felt we were
Speaker 1: on the wrong track. So I think the I think
Speaker 1: the younger generation has always been idealistic. I think what
Speaker 1: separates this young our generation from previous younger generations is
Speaker 1: they are at work turning their idealism into activism, like,
Speaker 1: in a very real way, turning their ideas into something real,
Speaker 1: whether it's through the companies they start or work for,
Speaker 1: whether it's through something they have on the side, you know,
Speaker 1: to to be activists in their communities, etcetera. We just
Speaker 1: really are quite taken aback at the degree of activism
Speaker 1: that we're seeing coming out of this new generation. Yes,
Speaker 1: I think it's always been easy to be disillusioned as
Speaker 1: a young person. To your question about the most recent data,
Speaker 1: we've not done in longitudinal study on this, but looking
Speaker 1: more broadly at other studies, we do believe it's a
Speaker 1: real low um And by the way, the other thing
Speaker 1: we really don't have to compare to it because we
Speaker 1: only looked at millennials, is how they compare to the
Speaker 1: generations ahead of them, gen X, baby Boomers, etcetera. In
Speaker 1: terms of how they see the US. But it really
Speaker 1: I I sent a copy of the latest report which
Speaker 1: revealed that data to every sing member of Congress. It
Speaker 1: needs to be a wake up call that we have
Speaker 1: a generation that's going to completely be defined as our workforce.
Speaker 1: For the most part, they will be the majority workforce. Um,
Speaker 1: they're a huge you know, there's seventy millions strong. They're
Speaker 1: not a small pocket. The absolutely, absolutely, we really need
Speaker 1: to be paying attention when they say, you know, they
Speaker 1: think we're on the wrong track. And the good news
Speaker 1: is they're not just sitting there saying I'm bummed we're
Speaker 1: not doing it right. They have ideas, They have real
Speaker 1: resource and things they can bring forward to make a
Speaker 1: difference if we engage them and make them part of
Speaker 1: a solution. So how do how does this generation's dislike
Speaker 1: of the direction we're heading, How does that manifest itself
Speaker 1: in the real world. So I think I'm seeing what
Speaker 1: I call an equal and opposite reaction. Right, they really
Speaker 1: find distasteful some of the you know, even the headlines
Speaker 1: today they find distasteful. Okay, But instead of sort of
Speaker 1: just putting their head in the sand and saying it's
Speaker 1: all bad, what I'm seeing is that equal and set
Speaker 1: reaction of doubling down on their activism and saying, but
Speaker 1: I'm going to do what I can to make a
Speaker 1: difference in some small way. And you know, I'll give
Speaker 1: you an example of sort of some areas of promise
Speaker 1: that we've seen. So at the Case Foundation, when technology
Speaker 1: was first being used as a means to do um
Speaker 1: micro giving. Okay, so small amounts, whether they be ten,
Speaker 1: we did some of the early experiments to see what
Speaker 1: was the real potential there. So we put about four
Speaker 1: million dollars of investment into three different giving platforms. To date,
Speaker 1: that's yielded over five billion in giving, most of it
Speaker 1: most of it micro giving. So I think when you
Speaker 1: look at like Kiva of this World or um go
Speaker 1: fund Me, I think the kind of ways that we're seeing.
Speaker 1: Literally some of these people are early in their career,
Speaker 1: they don't have a lot of extra budget dollars, but
Speaker 1: they will make you know, ten dollars available for something
Speaker 1: that they really believe in. And you know, too often
Speaker 1: I hear what difference can ten dollars make? But I've
Speaker 1: often said, you know, small amounts, when taken together, can
Speaker 1: do powerful things, and we're seeing that play out in society.
Speaker 1: So how what is the role of social media in
Speaker 1: all this? You mentioned go fund me. All of these
Speaker 1: Kickstarter go down the list of companies, they all have
Speaker 1: an enormous social component. Is this generation different than because
Speaker 1: of Facebook and Twitter and everything else in prior generations? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think they are. I mean, I think they're much
Speaker 1: more digitally native. Right, they didn't have to unlearn, they
Speaker 1: just had to learn UM and so I think they're
Speaker 1: much more comfortable and sort of think first about digital um.
Speaker 1: And you know, one of our first studies that we
Speaker 1: came out with, we asked them how they're spending their time,
Speaker 1: you know, with their mobile phone or whatever. And at
Speaker 1: that time, you know, the generation really had this reputation
Speaker 1: as slackers, etcetera. And one of our earliest studies said,
Speaker 1: you know, mimennial said they check their cell phone to
Speaker 1: connect with a nonprofit. And so I've often said to
Speaker 1: parents into those that kind of want to pass off
Speaker 1: this generation, why don't you think about that? Why don't
Speaker 1: you think about you know, digital as being a tool
Speaker 1: instead of something they're just playing around with. And of
Speaker 1: course social media has really you know, vaulted that in
Speaker 1: a meaningful way. So I know, I only have you
Speaker 1: for a finite amount of time. Let me jump into
Speaker 1: my standard questions I asked all of my guests, and
Speaker 1: I know you like the one on failure coming up.
Speaker 1: Tell us the most important thing people don't know about
Speaker 1: your background raised by a single mom, really tough economic situation,
Speaker 1: product of philanthropy myself in what way scholarships were made
Speaker 1: available and people who came alongside and helped me and
Speaker 1: my family. Tell us about some of your early mentors.
Speaker 1: My mom, she's a single mom raising four kids alone.
Speaker 1: She woke up up every day with energy that would
Speaker 1: put me in a shame, with a smile on her face,
Speaker 1: and that was very inspiring to see. And although she
Speaker 1: didn't have much, she made sure we were always doing
Speaker 1: for others. So tell us about some of the philanthropists
Speaker 1: who have influenced your approach to making your money have
Speaker 1: the biggest impact when when you it's involved with the
Speaker 1: Case Foundation. Yeah, so it's kind of a little bit
Speaker 1: of a personal story. So when we were building a well,
Speaker 1: next door was another big software company and we knew
Speaker 1: the founder and he was a really good guy and
Speaker 1: became a friend. But he was doing something pretty radical
Speaker 1: that we hadn't seen other companies do, and that was
Speaker 1: very early in the stage of success for his company,
Speaker 1: he started getting deeply engaged in philanthropy. UM, and we
Speaker 1: all marveled at that. We just hadn't seen that he
Speaker 1: was a young guy. He was like in his forties.
Speaker 1: It was before the I P O. And you know,
Speaker 1: I personally made a note of that and really followed him,
Speaker 1: and to this day we're very close friends. But I
Speaker 1: think not only he inspired me, but he probably inspired
Speaker 1: a full generation of young people who witnessed him, you know,
Speaker 1: taking these early actions with his wealth and really making
Speaker 1: a difference. What was the software company adjacent to A
Speaker 1: O l um? So his name is Mario Marino and
Speaker 1: he built a company called Legiant and sure, yeah, it
Speaker 1: was Marino and Associates originally, and then it became Legiant,
Speaker 1: and he still engaged. He was deeply engaged, absolutely, and
Speaker 1: we're still very good friends to this day. That that's
Speaker 1: that's quite fascinating. Um, this is everybody's favorite question. Uh,
Speaker 1: tell us about some of your favorite books, fiction, nonfiction, technology, philanthropy, whatever. Well,
Speaker 1: I have one book that just completely blew me away.
Speaker 1: It's Steven Johnson's How We Got to Now And it's
Speaker 1: six Innovations that Changed the world and they're really non obvious,
Speaker 1: and I don't want to give away to your listeners
Speaker 1: what they are. But I was so inspired by it
Speaker 1: that we decided as a team at the Case Foundation
Speaker 1: we'd read it together and we had a nice little
Speaker 1: wine and cheese hour where we talked about it and
Speaker 1: it's implications to our work. But I think it's highly
Speaker 1: relevant to individuals as well as to organizations. And then,
Speaker 1: of course my husband's book, The Third Wave. I remember
Speaker 1: when The Third Wave came out. How we got to
Speaker 1: now and the Third Wave? You want to give us
Speaker 1: a fiction book? What you're reading for fun? You know?
Speaker 1: I reread the classics on a routine basis. It's my escape. Um,
Speaker 1: so just pick any classics and chances are I've been
Speaker 1: through it recently. Okay, UM, let's talk about some things
Speaker 1: that have changed over the twenty years you've been running
Speaker 1: the Case Foundation. What has been the most significant shift
Speaker 1: in the world of philanthropy The democratization of philanthropy. You know,
Speaker 1: when I came in, it was still considered rich people
Speaker 1: writing checks, and I think someone influenced by our work,
Speaker 1: but more broadly, the collaborative approach to really democratizing it
Speaker 1: so that anyone anywhere can be a philanthropist, and I'm
Speaker 1: very excited by it. I talked about some of the
Speaker 1: stats earlier, UM, and I think it's unstoppable and it's
Speaker 1: really how we're going to change the world. Which leads
Speaker 1: to the next question, what are the next major shifts
Speaker 1: that are taking place in this field? What do you
Speaker 1: see as hey, here's an upcoming pivot or change in
Speaker 1: that world. Yeah, I would say continuing to move away
Speaker 1: from you know, an elite thing to something that all
Speaker 1: of us understand. But I also really believe in the
Speaker 1: future of everyday philanthropy. And what I mean by that
Speaker 1: is that every little action or transaction you might go
Speaker 1: through in your day, if something good happens because you
Speaker 1: chose that brand or because you know, you went to
Speaker 1: this place, I think there's real power in that. So
Speaker 1: my friend Jose Andres, celebrated chef, has been down in
Speaker 1: Puerto Rico these last few weeks. UM. He posted last
Speaker 1: night that he thinks he served over a million meals.
Speaker 1: When you have gone to Jose's restaurants in the last
Speaker 1: few weeks, you've been helping the people on the ground
Speaker 1: in Puerto Rico. So I really believe as more and
Speaker 1: more businesses and particularly consumer offerings bake into them some impact,
Speaker 1: it will draw I have this generation of consumers and
Speaker 1: make a big difference. So you talked earlier about failure.
Speaker 1: Tell us about a time you failed and what you
Speaker 1: learned from the experience. Well, I've had a lot, so
Speaker 1: I'll just give you one quickly. Um, we had a
Speaker 1: very large clean water initiative at the Case Foundation, big
Speaker 1: high profile. To my left was President Clinton, to my
Speaker 1: right was first Lady Laura Bush. When we launched it,
Speaker 1: and it didn't go well, and it's a bit of
Speaker 1: a longer story, but I'll shorten it for you and
Speaker 1: just say that it really was an important moment in
Speaker 1: the history of the Foundation and for me personally, because
Speaker 1: it was so high profile, because we've had so many
Speaker 1: engaged in the work. When we realized it wasn't working,
Speaker 1: we spent about a year trying to course correct, realized
Speaker 1: that wasn't happening. Finally had to come clean. So I yeah, exactly. UM.
Speaker 1: So I wrote a blog called the Painful Acknowledgement of
Speaker 1: Coming up Short, and I just aired out everything that
Speaker 1: had failed. Um, And that was really the beginning of
Speaker 1: opening dialogue across our nonprofit and philanthropy sector around things
Speaker 1: that didn't work, because immediately I started getting phone calls
Speaker 1: and notes thanking me for talking about something that failed,
Speaker 1: and we knew we were onto something publicly, and I
Speaker 1: really feared quite the opposite. I feared that they would
Speaker 1: accuse me of waste, fraud, in abuse. I mean, I
Speaker 1: remember my finger on that sind button and I didn't
Speaker 1: want to do it. Ultimately I did, and I looked
Speaker 1: back and it was one of the more important things
Speaker 1: we've ever done. Um And of course we don't like failure.
Speaker 1: We you know, we did test failure. We want excellence
Speaker 1: in all things, but we recognized to try to do big,
Speaker 1: extraordinary things. You're probably not going to bat a thousand.
Speaker 1: I have to respond to you with with two really
Speaker 1: interesting points. One, if you read Ray Dalio's new book
Speaker 1: Principles or or his pdf on it I have, he
Speaker 1: discusses very early on, I mean fifteen years ago, the
Speaker 1: importance of acknowledging failure, learning from it, and moving on.
Speaker 1: And what I took from him some years ago was
Speaker 1: the opportunity to do a public Mia culta every year.
Speaker 1: Here's what I got wrong and here's what I learned
Speaker 1: from it. It's tremendously freeing because it allows you to
Speaker 1: call other people out, Hey, this is wrong, you're wrong
Speaker 1: about this, this is now. You have the wrong conclusion here,
Speaker 1: because you're shielded from someone saying what makes you say
Speaker 1: you're so perfect? I'm not. I got all these things exactly.
Speaker 1: I talked about it. Did you find it was freeing
Speaker 1: to say, all right, here's where we messed up, and
Speaker 1: and here's the takeaway. Yeah, but I'm not going to
Speaker 1: kid you. It was really scary. And so I say
Speaker 1: that because, as you know, people out there listening no
Speaker 1: matter where they are in their walk in life. It's
Speaker 1: not easy to do, but it is really worthwhile to do,
Speaker 1: is to acknowledge failure and make sure that you know
Speaker 1: failure matters to you and you learn from it, but
Speaker 1: that you also allow others to learn from your failure
Speaker 1: so they can avoid them. I think we are we
Speaker 1: don't know how to be wrong in I don't want
Speaker 1: to say just our society. Many societies right, And it's
Speaker 1: a skill set that that people have to learn. So
Speaker 1: let me get to my last two questions. These are
Speaker 1: everybody's uh favorite questions. Tell us what you do to
Speaker 1: relax outside of the office. What do you do to
Speaker 1: stay mentally and or physically fit. I get out in nature.
Speaker 1: I'm a big lover of both state and national parks,
Speaker 1: and I spend a tremendous amount of time each year
Speaker 1: in them. Um. I love to hike, I love to kayak,
Speaker 1: I love to do all kinds of crazy things, but
Speaker 1: I need nature. I live in Washington, d C. And
Speaker 1: it's kind of a joke between me and my husband.
Speaker 1: He knows I need a fix as the end of
Speaker 1: the week is coming and we have to get out.
Speaker 1: And then our final question. If a millennial came to
Speaker 1: you and said, or someone just beginning their career and said,
Speaker 1: I'm interested in filling the blank technology, venture capital, philanthropy, whatever,
Speaker 1: what sort of advice would you give them? Um, I
Speaker 1: would hopefully be encouraging in their path, but ask them
Speaker 1: to ask the question along the way, what impact can
Speaker 1: you have in that role? You know, it's often believed
Speaker 1: that today to being a change the world environment, you
Speaker 1: need to be at an impact company or at a
Speaker 1: nonprofit or out on the front lines, when in fact,
Speaker 1: some of the ways you can most dramatically change the
Speaker 1: world is to go to traditional places and be the
Speaker 1: change maker within UM. And we need big brands, you know,
Speaker 1: having those kind of radical thinkers inside, people who are
Speaker 1: bringing a mission to their role, no matter where they
Speaker 1: sit or what they do. We have been speaking with
Speaker 1: Gene Case. She is formally a senior executive at America
Speaker 1: Online and now is CEO of the Case Foundation. Thank you,
Speaker 1: Jean for being generous with your time. Appreciate it. If
Speaker 1: you enjoy this conversation, be sure and look up an
Speaker 1: Inch or down an Inch on Apple iTunes, over class, SoundCloud,
Speaker 1: wherever fine podcasts are sold, and you can see our
Speaker 1: other hundred and sixty or so such previous podcasts. We
Speaker 1: love your comments, feedback and suggestions right to us at
Speaker 1: m IB podcast at Bloomberg dot net. I would be
Speaker 1: remiss if I did not think my crack staff who
Speaker 1: helps me put together uh these conversations every week. Michael
Speaker 1: Batnick is my head of research. Taylor Riggs is our
Speaker 1: book of producer. Medina Parwana is our audio producer and
Speaker 1: engineer par Excellence. I'm Barry Riholts. You've been listening to
Speaker 1: Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio.