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Speaker 1: This is Masters in Business with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: This week on the podcast, I have an extra special guest.

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Speaker 1: She is Gene Case, and she is not only a

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Speaker 1: former senior executive at America Online from its earliest days,

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Speaker 1: she also runs the Case Foundation. Her husband is Steve Case.

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Speaker 1: They set this up twenty years ago. And if you

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Speaker 1: are all interested in things like technology and impact investing

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Speaker 1: and millennials and what the future of philanthropy looks like,

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Speaker 1: you're really gonna enjoy this conversation. She not only was

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Speaker 1: there in the very early days of internet technology and

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Speaker 1: how that ate the world, but she has been on

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Speaker 1: the forefront of changing the way people donate money to

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Speaker 1: have an effect on on other causes. It's really quite fascinating.

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Speaker 1: She's a very very interesting person, so knowledgeable. Uh, this

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Speaker 1: was just delightful. With no further ado, my conversation with

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Speaker 1: Gene Case, I have an extra special guest today. Her

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Speaker 1: name is Gene Case. Gene was a pioneer in the

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Speaker 1: world of interactive technologies. She ran the marketing and branding

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Speaker 1: effort that launched the AOL service, ran the communications strategy

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Speaker 1: for taking the company public, and helped to establish a

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Speaker 1: o L as a household brand. Her career spanned for

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Speaker 1: decades before she and her husband Steve Case created the

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Speaker 1: Case Foundation in Today, she is actively engaged in philanthropy

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Speaker 1: and investing. She is CEO of the Case Foundation, Chairman

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Speaker 1: of the National Geographic Society Board of Trustees. She serves

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Speaker 1: on numerous advisory boards, including the George W. Bush President

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Speaker 1: Show Library Centers, Woman's Initiative Policy Advisory Council. She's especially

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Speaker 1: interested in millennial engagement, motivating the next generation of entrepreneurs

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Speaker 1: and philanthropists. Gene Case, Welcome to Bloomberg. It is a

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Speaker 1: pleasure to be here with you, Barry, Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: So that's a heck of a CV, and I just

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Speaker 1: read part of it. I have to ask a sort

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Speaker 1: of obscure question, did you ever have any idea that

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Speaker 1: this is how your life was gonna unfold? It's sort

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Speaker 1: of an unusual career path. It's a circuitest route. But actually,

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Speaker 1: I think when you talk to a lot of folks

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Speaker 1: who have achieved some degree of success, if you peel

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Speaker 1: back the onion, it's not uncommon that it's a circuitous route.

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Speaker 1: Some people talk about it, and some people don't. But

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Speaker 1: did I have any idea? You know, there's a part

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Speaker 1: of me that would say I did. Actually, I think

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Speaker 1: I always dream big and literally every phase of my

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Speaker 1: life and worked hard basically to achieve some of the

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Speaker 1: dreams that I had. You have a very entrepreneur real background.

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Speaker 1: Was that what you're where you began? Is that what

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Speaker 1: you thought you would focus on? Was it always? I

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Speaker 1: did not know. I actually thought I was going to

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Speaker 1: be a lawyer, believe it or not. Sort of my

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Speaker 1: true north was empowering people. I thought I would work

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Speaker 1: in my life to do what I could to empower others.

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Speaker 1: But originally I thought that was going to be via

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Speaker 1: the path of a lawyer. Um. But I first came

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Speaker 1: to Washington, d C. Where I live, working in the

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Speaker 1: Reagan administration. Um. And what would you do for Ronald Reagan?

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Speaker 1: I did public affairs? Yeah, well you in the White House? No,

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Speaker 1: I was out an agency. Um. But if you remember,

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Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan was really transforming government as part of what

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Speaker 1: he ran on and then what he came in and did.

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Speaker 1: And he did have a few communication skills of his own.

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Speaker 1: He did I might say he was a brilliant connosicator,

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Speaker 1: but probably about a year into that role, I got

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Speaker 1: a call from UM, a startup that was outside of

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Speaker 1: d C that was focused on what was then called

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Speaker 1: an online service, was the first today we call at

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Speaker 1: the Internet UM, and I made the leap. So I

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Speaker 1: really considered at the time, Gee, you know, if my

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Speaker 1: passion really is empowering people, the opportunity to democratize access

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Speaker 1: to ideas and information and communication is just too exciting,

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Speaker 1: and maybe I can have more impact in the private

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Speaker 1: sector than I could if I stayed in the public sector.

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Speaker 1: And the name of that initial company was The Source,

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Speaker 1: which was one of the first online services. The Source

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Speaker 1: and compus Serve were the two early ones. And then

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Speaker 1: how did you go from the Source to American Online?

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Speaker 1: I believe there were a few there were, so, you know,

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Speaker 1: we were a startup, a struggling startup at the Source.

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Speaker 1: But I really loved that time UM. But I was

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Speaker 1: active in my role there in marketing and GE called

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Speaker 1: and they were thinking about getting into the business as well,

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Speaker 1: and they recruited me to come to a startup for

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Speaker 1: them that was called Genie, and I spent about three

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Speaker 1: years there and then I got a call from what

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Speaker 1: was to become a O l Um and I made

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Speaker 1: the lead back to a startup and that was what

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Speaker 1: year that was to A O L. Wow, that's right.

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Speaker 1: But my first the first job in UM technology was

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Speaker 1: eight two. And it's so funny, you know, I spent

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Speaker 1: so much time with millennials and I tell them it

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Speaker 1: was two and they look at me like I'd grown

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Speaker 1: three heads. I mean, they weren't born there and they

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Speaker 1: shooters back then forgetting exactly exactly. That's amazing. So fast

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Speaker 1: forward in two thousand and eleven, you and your husband

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Speaker 1: Steve Case named as uh two of the best givers

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Speaker 1: by Barons. Tell us how you guys transition from entrepreneurship

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Speaker 1: and technology startups to philanthropy. Yeah, well, there's sort of

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Speaker 1: the personal side that took us there and also sort

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Speaker 1: of the trajectory we were on. So very early at

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Speaker 1: A O. Well we had decided we would start the

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Speaker 1: Well Foundation. It was my job kind of to stand

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Speaker 1: that up. UM. So we did that and that was

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Speaker 1: kind of our toe in the water around sort of

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Speaker 1: more formalized philanthropy. But even by that time we knew

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Speaker 1: that personally the success of the company would lead to

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Speaker 1: extraordinary wealth, and I think we both knew that to

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Speaker 1: who much has given, much is expected. That's how we

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Speaker 1: were raised. That's a great phrase. And I think we

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Speaker 1: always knew there was no way we would just enjoy

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Speaker 1: that wealth in our lifetime. I mean, of course we have,

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Speaker 1: but that we would commit most of it to the

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Speaker 1: benefit of others. And speaking of committing most of it,

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Speaker 1: you and your husband joined the Giving Pledge started by

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Speaker 1: Bill and Melinda Gates, to commit to giving away all

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Speaker 1: of your wealth. Eventually tell us what the thinking was

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Speaker 1: behind that. Yeah, So, as I said, we had really

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Speaker 1: made that commitment very early on. And if you look

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Speaker 1: at our activities sort of the degree of investment in

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Speaker 1: philanthropic things was a clear example that we were basically

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Speaker 1: going to give away the majority of our wealth very early.

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Speaker 1: So when they formed the Giving Pledge, Melinda called and

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Speaker 1: asked if we would be a part of it. And

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Speaker 1: it was a little uncomfortable for us, to be honest

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Speaker 1: with you, at first. We had to get comfortable with

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Speaker 1: the idea of being public about uh, you know, just

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Speaker 1: almost having our wealth be a spotlight. Um. But since

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Speaker 1: we had already made that decision so many years before

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Speaker 1: and we're well on our way, um, we thought, what

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Speaker 1: a terrific opportunity to learn and grow together with others

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Speaker 1: who want to make a difference, and ultimately that's why

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Speaker 1: we decided to go ahead and jump in. And it's

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Speaker 1: been a really exciting experience in the sense that we've

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Speaker 1: had the opportunity to help lead what's called the Learning Series,

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Speaker 1: and since that was really why we got engaged in

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Speaker 1: the first place, it's been a wonderful leadership opportunity to

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Speaker 1: work with other givers to learn more about different areas

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Speaker 1: that we can invest in and hopefully have impact. Tell

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Speaker 1: us about the work you actually did for them pre

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Speaker 1: I p O as well as pre product launched through

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Speaker 1: a few phases we did. We did, Yeah, what starts.

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Speaker 1: You know, what the company started as is not really

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Speaker 1: what it ended up as. But that's the story of

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Speaker 1: so many startups, right, That's the thing that absolutely but

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Speaker 1: when we started the American Line service, less than three

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Speaker 1: percent of Americans were online, and they were only online

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Speaker 1: one hour a week a week. But we were true

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Speaker 1: believers that there was really a mass market opportunity and

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Speaker 1: as I said earlier, really a powerful opportunity to democratize

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Speaker 1: access to really cool stuff for people everywhere. UM, and

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Speaker 1: that was the mission we were on and we were

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Speaker 1: a very mission focused company. UM. So we launched a well,

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Speaker 1: first for the Macintosh in nine and then later for PCs,

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Speaker 1: you know, more more traditional PC versions. UM. When we

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Speaker 1: went public in our valuation with seventy million dollars, that's astonishing.

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Speaker 1: That was really early days. Yes, we were the first

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Speaker 1: internet company to go public UM and then later Escape

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Speaker 1: is four years later ACT and we later bought an

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Speaker 1: Escape as you might recall, UM. But later of course,

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Speaker 1: evaluation of the company was a hundred sixty billion at

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Speaker 1: the time of the merger. So UM, it was quite

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Speaker 1: a rocket ship ride. It was the best performing stock

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Speaker 1: of the ninety nineties UM. And I think all of

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Speaker 1: us had had the opportunity to be some part of it. Uh,

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Speaker 1: look back on it as really truly the opportunity of

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Speaker 1: a lifetime. So for me, you know, I kind of thought, wow,

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Speaker 1: like where do I go from here? After I left

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Speaker 1: the company, Like, are the best days over left? Late?

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Speaker 1: I did. I left in the late nineties, And you know,

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Speaker 1: the really cool thing is I still feel every day

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Speaker 1: as energized and inspired by the work that I get

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Speaker 1: to be engaged and as I did back in those

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Speaker 1: days in A Well. And it was funny because I

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Speaker 1: think for anyone who gets a rocketship ride, you worry

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Speaker 1: your best days are over, and you know, often does

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Speaker 1: lightning strike twice exactly exactly? And so I feel very

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Speaker 1: fortunate that, you know, as my husband and I founded

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Speaker 1: our family foundation, the Case Foundation, that we've really been

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Speaker 1: able to try to use our talents and our resources

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Speaker 1: to have tremendous impact. And it's just a great feeling

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Speaker 1: when you wake up every day. You know, at the

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Speaker 1: Case Foundation, we say we invest in people, in ideas

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Speaker 1: and can change the world. And so that's how I'm

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Speaker 1: spending my time and in collaboration with others and with

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Speaker 1: a really brilliant team at the Case Foundation. And let

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Speaker 1: me tell you it is. Uh. It doesn't just meet

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Speaker 1: the A Well experiences. In many ways, it actually has

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Speaker 1: surpassed it. So let's let's stay with the theme of

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Speaker 1: changing the world and the impact of technology. When you

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Speaker 1: go online today, or certainly when I go online today, Amazon, Google, Facebook, Twitter,

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Speaker 1: I see huge parallels back to A O. L. Certainly

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Speaker 1: the genesis of those companies existed in some question offering

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Speaker 1: how often do you look around modern Internet and say, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we did that that traces. Oh I remember when we

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Speaker 1: rolled out that. How how parallel is what's taking place today.

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Speaker 1: You know, we have the benefit of knowing some of

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Speaker 1: these founders, of course, and you know, Mark Zuckerberg will

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Speaker 1: tell you he got his teeth hacking a O l U.

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Speaker 1: The Twitter founders will tell you they were inspired by

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Speaker 1: sort of what A Well didn't get right, which was

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Speaker 1: sort of the real time messaging back and forth. But

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Speaker 1: that real time messaging was tremendous with it was no

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Speaker 1: question it was a huge business for us UM and Facebook.

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Speaker 1: You know, we used to have these things called member pages.

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Speaker 1: But you know, back in that era of technology, anonymity

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Speaker 1: was actually valued. It was less about you know, telling

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Speaker 1: who you were. Oh my god. You never say where

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Speaker 1: you were what you were doing. So it's fun to

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Speaker 1: look back. I mean, you know, I've been in technology

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Speaker 1: long enough to remember when people thought it would be

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Speaker 1: crazy that you'd ever give your credit card online for anything,

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Speaker 1: And now they ask Amazon to police store it for

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Speaker 1: him and suggest things to buy. So we've seen these

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Speaker 1: technology trends come and I think it's the nature of innovation,

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Speaker 1: UM and revolutions that it's iterative, right, And so we're

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Speaker 1: thrilled that these next gen companies have come along and

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Speaker 1: taken what was really a vision of ours, even further

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Speaker 1: sad that we missed it. You know, we should have

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Speaker 1: been the Google, We should have been the Twitter, we

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Speaker 1: should have been the Facebook. But really happy for them

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Speaker 1: that you know, they've locked on it and they're doing

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Speaker 1: something great. Isn't that the nature of of both technology

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Speaker 1: and the innovator's dilemma that when any company achieves a

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Speaker 1: huge success in one area, you could pivot when you're small,

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Speaker 1: you can from your startup, But how do you pivot

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Speaker 1: when you say, hey, we're worth a hundred plus billion dollars,

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Speaker 1: let's completely revamp what got us here, no question. And

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Speaker 1: you know, we have this work at the Case Foundation

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Speaker 1: where we've looked at principles that are present where there's

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Speaker 1: innovation and breakthrough transformation. And I spend a lot of

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Speaker 1: time with big institutions teaching these principles. They're known under

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Speaker 1: our term be fearless. And you know, we use examples

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Speaker 1: like a Well that we just talked about, but also

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Speaker 1: like Kodak. You know, Kodak invented digital photography, but they

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Speaker 1: were making so much money off of that film from

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Speaker 1: the old cameras that they really wouldn't invest in the

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Speaker 1: new radical digital photography. And what happened, others came along

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Speaker 1: ate their lunch. The company, you know, really kind of

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Speaker 1: went by by in the early two thousand's how much

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Speaker 1: how much film is sold today, it's it's and yet

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Speaker 1: when you look at the digital world, it's really difficult

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Speaker 1: to say, this is our bread and butter. Now that's destroyed, right, right,

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Speaker 1: So it's so important to keep innovating. It's so important

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Speaker 1: to you know, not let yourself get too comfortable, whether

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Speaker 1: you're an individual, by the way, or whether you're an institution.

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Speaker 1: I think that's when, um, you know that, that's when

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Speaker 1: you start to lose ground. Uh, if you're not constantly

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Speaker 1: moving forward. So you were gone from American Line by

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Speaker 1: the time the huge Time Warner deal took place. Did

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Speaker 1: you have any thoughts of it? Were you kind of

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Speaker 1: and I'm I assume this is coffee table talk at home,

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Speaker 1: But do you ever look at that transaction and say, gee,

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Speaker 1: this is a giant thing that's so different than what

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Speaker 1: got us here, or okay, this is we're sort of

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Speaker 1: a media company this is a logical next step. How

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Speaker 1: did you we all have the benefit of hindsight, how

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Speaker 1: did you How did that look to a recent graduate

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Speaker 1: from a O L who was no longer on the inside. Well,

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Speaker 1: of course, you know, my husband was chairman of the

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Speaker 1: merged company, so I probably had a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a bias insight on the matter. Um, But you know,

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Speaker 1: I really think that it was the right vision. And

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Speaker 1: you know, as my husband talks about it, because he

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Speaker 1: obviously was in a leadership role that took it forward.

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Speaker 1: You know, I just I think we were very disappointed

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Speaker 1: that the execution wasn't there. Um, But you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: we move on, and as I said, we've really been

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Speaker 1: excited by this opportunity in this chapter that's open for

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Speaker 1: us to look at innovation, to invest in entrepreneurs, to

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Speaker 1: drive impact more broadly in society. So at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, uh, we feel pretty good. Let's talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit about the Case Foundation. You just passed

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Speaker 1: the twentieth anniversary of establishing this. What is it like

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Speaker 1: running a large philanthropic firm with your mission? You know,

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Speaker 1: it's really exciting, but I have to tell you it

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Speaker 1: kind of blows my mind to think we've been at

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Speaker 1: this twenty years. For me, that's the longest I've ever

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Speaker 1: spent in one job. UM, and those twenty years really

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Speaker 1: did fly by. UM. But it has been exciting. I

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Speaker 1: think it's enabled us to take what we believe are

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Speaker 1: our areas of expertise. You know, technology has been a

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Speaker 1: keep part of what we've done at the Case Foundation,

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out a way to best leverage technology

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Speaker 1: to drive greater good and impact out in society. UM.

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Speaker 1: But it's been a terrific ride and we've really enjoyed it.

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Speaker 1: And I think really from the get go, we decided

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Speaker 1: we didn't want to go it alone. This was not

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Speaker 1: going to be about us writing checks. This was going

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Speaker 1: to be about trying to have a catalytic institution UM

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Speaker 1: that would bring others along and collaborate with others. And

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Speaker 1: because of that, we feel really good about the impacts

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Speaker 1: we've been able to have. So let's talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about venture backed startups. You have some amazing statistics

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Speaker 1: on the on the Case Foundation site. Only ten percent

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Speaker 1: of venture backed companies had a female founder. That's correct,

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Speaker 1: only one percent had an African American founder. Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: this is why we're so passionate about this area we

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Speaker 1: call inclusive entrepreneurship, you know. And we would add some data,

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Speaker 1: by the way, and that is that last year, seventy

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Speaker 1: eight percent of injury capital went to just three places,

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Speaker 1: New York, Massachusetts, and California. So we're really pulling putting

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Speaker 1: all of our eggs into a few baskets here, and

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Speaker 1: that's never a smart idea when it comes to UH

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Speaker 1: finance and opportunity UM so unknowingly that means folks have

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Speaker 1: kind of been left behind, you know, Like when we

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Speaker 1: saw the results of UM the election last year and

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Speaker 1: we heard from voters, you know, some of the media

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Speaker 1: described it as they feel left behind, but when you

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Speaker 1: look at data like that, no, the reality is they

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Speaker 1: have been left behind by terrific opportunities and it hasn't

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Speaker 1: served our nation well. So what we see is, you know,

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Speaker 1: with entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs live problems, and usually these great companies

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Speaker 1: that come forward are a result of finding solutions to

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Speaker 1: personal problems they've lived. So we just see a terrific

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Speaker 1: and powerful economic opportunity to bring women and people of

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Speaker 1: color into the mix, as well as people who live

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Speaker 1: between the coasts, and who knows the kind of innovations

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Speaker 1: that will come forward, chances are they will more broadly

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Speaker 1: serve society because they're not just the elites on the coast,

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Speaker 1: you know, taking what is already a pretty comfortable life

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Speaker 1: and making it more comfortable for some of us. We

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Speaker 1: really need people jumping in and building new products and

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Speaker 1: services that will address uh, you know, the needs of

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Speaker 1: citizens more broadly. So let me press you a little

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Speaker 1: bit and say, what can a foundation or a philanthropy

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Speaker 1: due to help level the playing field for every So

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Speaker 1: this area of impact investing, it's a funny term, and

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Speaker 1: we should, you know, probably talk about what we what

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Speaker 1: we mean when we say that. But in its simplest form,

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Speaker 1: we think of it as new ways to solve old problems.

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Speaker 1: Essentially now using capital and using mentorship of entrepreneurs um

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Speaker 1: to drive new kinds of companies that are specifically focused

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Speaker 1: on bringing benefit to society. So we say, for it

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Speaker 1: to be an impact investment, it must have both a

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Speaker 1: financial and a social return. So these aren't just do

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Speaker 1: good kind of investments, Easier investments that can have the

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Speaker 1: promise of a market rate return while at the same

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Speaker 1: time providing a social benefit. So essentially the thought process

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Speaker 1: is companies, technologies, businesses have such an outsize impact on

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Speaker 1: the way society functions. We don't want to just have

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Speaker 1: a little philanthropy that responds to a little bit of

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Speaker 1: an issue. We want to broader societal change, right And frankly,

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Speaker 1: I mean where economic power comes from is the private sector.

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Speaker 1: And when I first got engaged in philanthropy full time,

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Speaker 1: it really bothered me that we were looking at you know,

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Speaker 1: long entrenched dogging problems and we had teams around a table,

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Speaker 1: so it was a good collaborative, but it was like

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Speaker 1: there were missing chairs, and those missing chairs were entrepreneurs.

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Speaker 1: And boy, I'll tell you, if you want to find

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Speaker 1: innovative ways forward, ask an entrepreneur to think about a problem.

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Speaker 1: So we're really excited about the opportunity to bring these

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Speaker 1: sectors that have mostly been left on the sidelines as

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Speaker 1: we think about big social challenges, inviting them into the

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Speaker 1: tent and really calling them to do what they do well.

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Speaker 1: And I think, you know, ultimately there's no amount of

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Speaker 1: philanthropy that can really address the challenges that we have

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Speaker 1: in the world today. We need all sectors working together,

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Speaker 1: and we're really excited by what some of the entrepreneurs

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Speaker 1: away they're thinking and what they're bringing to the table.

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Speaker 1: Let's define that term, perhaps for people who may not

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Speaker 1: know what it means. What is impact investment? Sure, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, as I said, I we define it as

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Speaker 1: a class of investments that provide for investors both a

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Speaker 1: social and a financial reach turn, with the social piece

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Speaker 1: being kind of what's new about impact investing. But it

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Speaker 1: might make more sense if I just talk a bit

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Speaker 1: about what kind of companies we're looking at here when

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Speaker 1: we talk about impact investing. So we've been invested in

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Speaker 1: a young company called Revolution Foods on the West Coast.

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Speaker 1: And essentially these are two moms who looked at the

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Speaker 1: school system and saw two very talented moms. So I

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Speaker 1: must to tell you very well educated mobs um who

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Speaker 1: looked at the school system and realized basically it was

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Speaker 1: junk being served to kids, particularly in low income communities.

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Speaker 1: When hcat all the stuff we really don't want to

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Speaker 1: be pumping into our young children. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: the same kind of food that doesn't lead to good

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Speaker 1: outcomes in the classroom, right, it doesn't power them the

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Speaker 1: way they need to be powered to perform at peak.

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Speaker 1: So they said, we can do something about that, and

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Speaker 1: they started this company, Revolution Foods, and today they've served

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Speaker 1: millions of um healthy they call them chef crafted kid

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Speaker 1: inspired meals. I've been in schools and seen the chill

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Speaker 1: and eating these meals and enjoying them um. And it's

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Speaker 1: you know, called Revolution Foods for a reason. Who knew

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Speaker 1: was revolutionary to bring healthy foods into our public schools.

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Speaker 1: So they act as a contractor providing they does that

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Speaker 1: scale is that spread? It has scaled dramatically, as I said,

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Speaker 1: they've now they're in a number of different markets. They've

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Speaker 1: served millions of these healthy foods um. And in addition,

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Speaker 1: you know, they have a job strategy to try to

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Speaker 1: bring in some job training and employ those that have

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Speaker 1: been left out of the job culture. So they've added

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Speaker 1: like a thousand new jobs. It's really it's quite a story.

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Speaker 1: But it's a great example of an impact company. And

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Speaker 1: we're very excited about their growth. And you know, Fast

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Speaker 1: Company named them one of the most innovative companies in America.

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Speaker 1: So they're getting recognition out there in the market for

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Speaker 1: what they're doing. But another example is a company called

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Speaker 1: blend Or started by an African American female Stephanie Lampkin

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Speaker 1: blend or works with big companies that are in tech

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Speaker 1: to blind the resume data in such a way that

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Speaker 1: you can you can't detect the gender, nor can you

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Speaker 1: detect the background of the person based on the kind

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Speaker 1: of name or whatever. And it's a real algorithmically driven,

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Speaker 1: scaled approach to trying to help these tech companies who

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Speaker 1: actually want to diversify in many cases, but they know

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Speaker 1: that implicit bias exists along the reviewer line as as

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Speaker 1: resumes come in. So this blinds that data out of

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Speaker 1: the resume, so you're really just getting the pure accomplishments

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Speaker 1: of the candidates. And it's had a dramatic impact in

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Speaker 1: the companies they've worked with, many of which we know Microsoft, etcetera,

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Speaker 1: um in terms of changing the ratio of new tech employees.

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Speaker 1: You know that that reminds me of what a number

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Speaker 1: of orchestras have done with their process of blind behind

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Speaker 1: the curtain and suddenly it's a much more diverse Exactly,

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Speaker 1: that's exactly right, and so that's what she's setting out

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Speaker 1: to do. But as I said earlier, I think as

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Speaker 1: we bring people from low income environments in, as we

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Speaker 1: bring people of color, different backgrounds, etcetera. The kind of

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Speaker 1: innovation we're gonna see are just going to be different

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Speaker 1: than what the same class of mostly elite white males

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Speaker 1: on the coasts have been building. Nothing wrong with those,

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Speaker 1: We celebrate them. We've talked about a lot of them

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Speaker 1: in this conversation, but we just need to mix it up.

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Speaker 1: So you have a descriptor about the sorts of investments

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Speaker 1: you make, and I want to ask you about these

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Speaker 1: three conditions intentionality, transparency, and measurement. Right tells sure, Well,

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Speaker 1: when we talk about impact investing, we say those three

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Speaker 1: conditions must be present. Intentionality basically says, look, you have

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Speaker 1: to be clear about what impact are you intending to have,

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Speaker 1: right so, and that intentionality has to be baked in

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Speaker 1: to the way your business plan is going forward. You

431
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 1: have to commit to measure it because we can all say, hey,

432
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 1: you know, I want to like serve more healthy meals,

433
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 1: but if we don't have a means of clear measurement

434
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,199
Speaker 1: around that impact, it doesn't really matter. And then the

435
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 1: last is transparency, and there there really has to be

436
00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 1: a Kumbaya moment between the company and the investors to

437
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 1: say we're going to make public and be transparent about

438
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 1: the impact and the measurement. So let's talk a little

439
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: bit about impact investing and E s G investing. What

440
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 1: is the Case Foundation doing with its portfolio? Sure, so

441
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 1: you know, the Case Foundation is using its resources to

442
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 1: be a catalyst in the movement. More broadly, we are

443
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 1: using personal resources to do the investments. Um, and I

444
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 1: have a portfolio that I am taking to impact across

445
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 1: all asset classes. And what does that look like in

446
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 1: real life? Okay, So it's messy and it's hard, and

447
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 1: it's going to take a lot longer than I thought.

448
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: And it's funny, you know, because I often speak on

449
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: impact investing, I teach in business schools, etcetera. And then

450
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 1: this idea that Okay, I'm gonna personally walk the walk

451
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 1: in a very real way. I think I've learned a lot.

452
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,160
Speaker 1: But you know, uh, what we see today are some

453
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,239
Speaker 1: terrific sort of deal flow opportunities out there. But we

454
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 1: also see some funds, some layers washing themselves as impact.

455
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 1: But then when you ask those really pointed questions about

456
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 1: what is your intentional impact? What are you doing to

457
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 1: measure it? And you know, what have you reported against

458
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: your impact? Sometimes things fall down. So I've seen a

459
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: lot of deals, you know, brought to the table that

460
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 1: you know, you kind of shake your head and say, sorry,

461
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:23,640
Speaker 1: it just does not make the cut. And I think

462
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 1: that's something we have to be a little careful about

463
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: in this early phase of impact investing in the movement

464
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,959
Speaker 1: more broadly, is to really ask the hard questions around

465
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: this intentionality, measurement and transparency to make sure people aren't

466
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: what we call kind of greenwashing what they're doing. So, so,

467
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: how do you measure the impact of a portfolio and investment?

468
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: A last year, the big et F that rolled out

469
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: was she Um, which was put together with I believe

470
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,959
Speaker 1: it was Calisters and State Street. Calisters is still the

471
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 1: lion share of the assets that are invested. Can those

472
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: sort of investments have an impact or is it just

473
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: a little bit of mind share and not a whole

474
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 1: lot more so, you know, we published something called the

475
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: Short Guide to Impact Investing, which can be found on

476
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: case foundation dot org, and they're what we say is

477
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: there just needs to be a match between the intentionality

478
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: of the investor and the investee. And in this early

479
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: days of impact investing, I don't think we should draw

480
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: too tight a box What I think is more relevant

481
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 1: is making sure that the impact you're seeking through an investment,

482
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 1: there is a means to measure it and report it.

483
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 1: So you said, how do you judge you know, the

484
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: impact of a portfolio today? I think the way that

485
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: it makes the most sense is literally deal by deal,

486
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 1: because impact is going to look different with every investment

487
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: that you make. The key is knowing what their intention

488
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: is and yours is, and making sure there's a measurement

489
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 1: and transparency to report it. So you're on the board

490
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:56,640
Speaker 1: of directors of the National Geographic um Society. Correct your cherson,

491
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 1: I am the chairman. So let's the E and e

492
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 1: s G is environmental. Yes, how do you measure the

493
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 1: impact of that when the damage has been done over

494
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: a century and the curative or at least the reduction

495
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 1: of future damage could take decades to measure? Or Am

496
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: I being too pessimistic? You know, I don't think you're

497
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: being too pessimistic. I'm more optimistic than you are because

498
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 1: I think how a lot of these things work. As

499
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 1: new technologies will come along, they will create a faster

500
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,120
Speaker 1: path to impact. But I you know, I just I

501
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 1: feel like I'm repeating myself. But I think the most

502
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,479
Speaker 1: important thing, and this is true you know for Investment

503
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: Committee at National Geographic Society as well as on our

504
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 1: personal investment front, is to make sure at the time

505
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: we're making the impact investment, we understand what the commitment

506
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: and the intentionality is around what we're trying to impact,

507
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 1: and that there's a means to report it out. So

508
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: you know, in some cases you may not actually see

509
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: impacts for the first year or two. It may but

510
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: the key is having this and I said it is

511
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: come by a moment to make sure you know what

512
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: you're investing in, you know what the expectation is for

513
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: how those impacts are going to report. Now, let me

514
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,199
Speaker 1: just say a word on the National Geographic Society and

515
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: sort of the whole impact investing realm around it. UM.

516
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 1: It's hunter twenty nine year old institution. We have a

517
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: one point three billion dollar endowment. Um. You know, we

518
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,919
Speaker 1: grant tens of millions of dollars out into the world

519
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: every year. And you know, we really had to step

520
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: back and say, look, grants are really powerful and they

521
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 1: do really important things. But today there's a whole new

522
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: generation of companies being born and taken forward that are

523
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 1: also assisting in exploration and science in the environment, etcetera.

524
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: So now we've added to our portfolio not just grants,

525
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: but investments in these young companies that are also very

526
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: consistent with our mission. And I would say to people

527
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: out there who have portfolios, if they're in the companies,

528
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: if they have endowments, whatever, I think it's really important

529
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: to use this kind of investing as another tool, kind

530
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: of in your toolkit as to how you can change

531
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: the world. We have been speaking with Gene Case. She

532
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: was a senior executive at America on Line and now

533
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: runs the Case Foundation. UH. If you enjoy this conversation,

534
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: be sure and stick around for the podcast extras, where

535
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: we keep the tape rolling and continue discussing all things

536
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: technology and philanthropy. Be sure and check out my daily

537
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: column on Bloomberg View dot com. Follow me on Twitter

538
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: at rit Halts. We love your comments, feedback, end suggestions

539
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: right to us at m IB podcast at Bloomberg dot net.

540
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: I'm Barry Hults. You're listening to Masters and Business on

541
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. Welcome to the podcast. I am here with

542
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: Gene Case. Gene, thank you so much for doing this.

543
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: I have so many questions for you, then let's go.

544
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: I'm enjoying, so let's let's let's jump into this with um.

545
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: The one question I missed in the beginning how impactful

546
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: can philanthropy be? And what I mean by that is

547
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: how long does it take to really move the needle

548
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: and see the results of your work? If it was

549
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: really easy, it was just writing a check, Hey, we

550
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: would have changed the world in a long time ago. Absolutely,

551
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: it's really important to understand that to be most impactful

552
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: and sort of the change the world arena, it really

553
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: just can't stop at check writing. Check writing by itself

554
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: is not going to transform anything. I think where we've

555
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: seen transformational change is when people are all in, when

556
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: they bring their networks, their resources, you know, their skills. Um,

557
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: just there's there's no stopping sort of what they bring

558
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: to the party beyond the check writing. And by the way,

559
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 1: we think collaboration is something and I'll say in my

560
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: twenty years in this there's really good news on that front. Today,

561
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: I think it's better understood that we're better together than

562
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: just taking that sort of name on bricks and feeling

563
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 1: proud that we wrote some big check right, that working

564
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: together as partners is how we see moving the needle.

565
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: So when you say collaborations it between different foundations, is

566
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: it between the private sector and the problem. So I'll

567
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: speak to the Case foundation, but I am seeing it

568
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: more broadly, okay, Um. We have always been about cross

569
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: sector collaboration. So for big initiatives, we require a private

570
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: sector partner, we require a public sector partner and hopefully

571
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: other philanthropies alongside with us, and of course a nonprofit

572
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: UH partner as well. Private and a public sector partner

573
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: in order to make them absolutely investment absolutely, And we've

574
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: helped lead some major initiatives where we can point to

575
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 1: impact and say, you know, wow, that happened because we

576
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: were better together. Each brought his or her own strength

577
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: to the table and and our be fearless work that

578
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: I referenced earlier, this idea we call it reach beyond

579
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: your Bubble, which has built a really big table. Ask

580
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: who's not at the table, what voices aren't being heard,

581
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: and get them around the table. And typically where there's

582
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: a very diverse collaborative team at work, that's where we've

583
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: seen breakthroughs. It usually isn't sort of the one soul

584
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: player with a really strong mission believing he or she

585
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: alone can change the world. That's just not how it happens.

586
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: And the good news is with the millennial generation, collaboration

587
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: you know is in their d n A. That's just

588
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: how they think about the world. It's very different really

589
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: than the world that I grew up in, where you know,

590
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: I think silos existed to them, they're open arms to

591
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,959
Speaker 1: anybody that can help like get them to their goals.

592
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: And so I think that's starting to find its way

593
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: into the culture of institutions across the nation. So I

594
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: want to talk more about the millennials, but before I

595
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: get to that, I have to bring up be Fearless principles, right, Fearless?

596
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: That really sounds like a best selling book title. What

597
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 1: what's the plans with the with the book for that? Well,

598
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: I am writing a book. I am fresh from two

599
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: weeks away where I just went all by myself and

600
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: wrote for two weeks. So can I can I suggest

601
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 1: be Fearless as a title, because I think that's a winner,

602
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: so um as I. So it is work that we've

603
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: had underweight the Foundation for quite some time, and we've

604
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: literally worked with thousands of people around the country to

605
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: teach the principles and again they're really principles of innovation.

606
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 1: And let me give you an example of you know

607
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 1: what they represent. The first is make big bets and

608
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: make history and the ideas. Don't accept incremental change. You know,

609
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: have a big idea and chase it and put together

610
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: what's necessary to make that real. That sounds a little

611
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: like the big b hag. Yes, exactly, big hairy, audacious goals.

612
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: It's very similar to that. Um. The second principle is

613
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: experiment early and often take risks. Be bold. And here's

614
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: where you see old line institutions get really nervous berrys

615
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: when we start talking about risk take king. They literally

616
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: can say it's too risky to take risks, to which

617
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: I say, okay. But if you look at any transformational

618
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: company or institution, you know what you will see is

619
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: they looked at it as R and D as necessary

620
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: focus on the next thing and putting some degree of

621
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 1: resource or investment into that. So you know, this risk

622
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: taking you can always see when you have an uncomfortable

623
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 1: audience like what do you mean risk? Like, I you know,

624
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: I want to stay comfortable. I love I love the

625
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 1: Jeff Bezos of Amazon quote, which is and I'm mangling this.

626
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: If we're not failing, well, then we're doing something wrong

627
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 1: because it means we're just making safe bets. And what's

628
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 1: the value of that, right? And you know, we have

629
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: so many great quotes that we use, but Albert Einstein

630
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: said failure is success in progress. But think about it

631
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 1: as institutions and individuals. We don't look at it that way.

632
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 1: There's a tendency to hang your head. But I hang

633
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: out with entrepreneurs right, and they count their failures almost

634
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 1: as badges. And I'll be much quicker to invest in

635
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: an entrepreneur that's on his third startup after two failed

636
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 1: or her third start up after two failed. Um, then

637
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: I would someone starting for the first time, because I

638
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 1: know those failures have really made them better, have taught

639
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: them things, and now they can go further. So that's

640
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 1: our third principle, which is make failure matter. That's really

641
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: interesting when when I have conversations with Europeans about the

642
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 1: differences between American and europe I happen to love their

643
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: approach to life work balance. We kinda over emphasized work here.

644
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 1: They are wholly perplexed by our embracement of failure. A

645
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: disaster a startup that goes belly up is sort of

646
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 1: fatal there. Absolutely for us, it's like, well, you get up,

647
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: you brush yourself off, you start. Oh. It's such a

648
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 1: cultural difference, such a philosophical difference, and to some degree

649
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 1: accounts for the success of them, because entrepreneurial sector, right,

650
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,879
Speaker 1: But I think it's on all of us, in particularly

651
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 1: anyone who's you know, achieved some kind of success, to

652
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: be more transparent about, you know, the failures that got

653
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: us there, because too often, I think, and sometimes when

654
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: I'm in front of college students, I haven't done this

655
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: in a while, I'll have to pull it out again. Um,

656
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 1: when I'm in front of college students, you know, they'll

657
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 1: read this illustrious bio that makes it sound like everything

658
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: was so perfect and it was just you know, one

659
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: step step after the other, etcetera. And then I come

660
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 1: forward and I say, now, let me read you my

661
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: failure resume, and I talk about how that happened because

662
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: this failed over here, or it was a failure at

663
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: that that led to this. And I think sometimes people

664
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 1: are less comfortable talking about their failure back and we

665
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 1: do a disservice to the next generation because they're left

666
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: to believe. Oh my gosh, if this has happened, is

667
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,959
Speaker 1: it over for me? UM, So I think it's really

668
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: important to talk about failure. And so, you know, we

669
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 1: make a point at the case Foundation of UH talking

670
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: about our failures and it was really a watershed moment

671
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 1: as part of this be Fearless work where we said,

672
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: from now on, whenever we publish anything, we're going to

673
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 1: publish what failed as well as what was successful. UM

674
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,800
Speaker 1: And we started holding fail fests around at different places,

675
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 1: sail fest where we would encourage people to talk about failure,

676
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: said had in the nonprofit. In the public sector, it

677
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: can be called waste, fraud and abuse if you're not careful,

678
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 1: if you've tried something and it failed. We need to

679
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,879
Speaker 1: get rid of that culture. We need to encourage more

680
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: risk taking and understand that you know, if it is

681
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: risk taking, it means you don't know for sure that

682
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 1: it's going to be a success, but you're trying something big.

683
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 1: One of my favorite pages that venture capital websites post

684
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 1: are their list of things we missed. Hey, we're given

685
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,359
Speaker 1: an opportunity to invest in Google and Uber and right

686
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: and we just thought these were terrible, Like dais and

687
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: we blew it, and there's something refreshing about people just

688
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: being honest about Nope, I couldn't quite see that, and

689
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 1: it turned out I was wrong, absolutely. And you know,

690
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: we like to tell the story of Airbnb right when

691
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: they were pitching to some of those really celebrated investment

692
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 1: firms and they go, what people are going to stay

693
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 1: in the homes of total strangers? Never gonna happen, right,

694
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 1: And then you look at that model in Uber, they're

695
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: really not that far apart. Taxis one exactly exactly you

696
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: would have thought if you if you saw one, you

697
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: should have seen the other one. That's pretty interesting. Let's

698
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,879
Speaker 1: talk one last point on impact investing. I have to

699
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: ask you about you're you you reference on the site.

700
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: In alone, it grew to a hundred and eighteen billion

701
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 1: dollars in impacted assets under management, and you note we

702
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,959
Speaker 1: still haven't hit the tipping point for impact investment. So

703
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 1: so how large can this get and where is the

704
00:38:55,840 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: tipping point for E s G and or impact investing? Well?

705
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: I think E s G S tipping point is coming

706
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 1: a lot faster and we're a lot closer just given

707
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: the scale of E s G. But impact investing specifically,

708
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 1: how big can it get? It can be the definition

709
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 1: of investment where impact goes away. So we've talked a

710
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 1: lot about millennials, Um, we haven't talked about, you know,

711
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 1: the transfer of wealth that's coming in the tens of

712
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 1: trillions of dollars. And then they so you know, between

713
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: women and millennials, they're gonna they're gonna control in a

714
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: very large purse in the United States, will drive where

715
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,919
Speaker 1: investments are going. Um. And you know, if you talk

716
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,839
Speaker 1: to women and you talk to millennials today, they're not

717
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: only conscious consumers, they're conscious investors. And the banks know

718
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 1: it's kind of an open secret. Now they're feeling the

719
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: pressure of these two groups kind of nipping at the

720
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 1: heels of the current established investment community saying where are

721
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: the deals that are that bring you know, social return

722
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 1: as well as financial return. So of course it's a

723
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: big idea to say all investing, you know, impact investing

724
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 1: will be all investing a tipping point. I'm pretty optimistic.

725
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: I think we're going to see that in the coming years.

726
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 1: I think, you know, somewhere in the two to three

727
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 1: year I believe we'll see a tipping point in impact

728
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: investing UM. But you know what I do feel good

729
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: about is there's been tremendous traction and momentum already just

730
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 1: in the years we've been focused on it UM. And

731
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: it's hard to predict these things. There's a fascinating book

732
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: by UM professor Meyer's Stateman out in Santa Clara, California,

733
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: called One Investors Really Want and a decade before this

734
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 1: really picked up. He discussed how people want their investments

735
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 1: in their portfolios to reflect not only their character and personality,

736
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: but their values, their beliefs, and what they want to

737
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: accomplish the world beyond outpacing inflation and saving for environment.

738
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: And as e s G and impact gets more and more,

739
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 1: UM finds more and more resonance. It's clear he was

740
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 1: really onto something long before a lot of other people.

741
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: I've seen that. I think that's right. And you know,

742
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 1: you look at sort of who the players are that

743
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 1: have come into the market, right, and it's really quite impressive.

744
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 1: I mean, we have Goldman participating with Baine black Rock.

745
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: I mean these are marquee names. We have marquee investors

746
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,359
Speaker 1: all over this space as well. And then you have

747
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: something like the TPG Rise Fund that came along, which

748
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 1: is a two billion dollar fund. I think some of

749
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: us would have said in the last year or two,

750
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 1: we're not sure we're going to see that level of

751
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 1: scale and a fund that, you know, the Rise Fund

752
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 1: has brought. So there's a lot to look at watch

753
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:45,800
Speaker 1: for that I think will play a role in driving

754
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,839
Speaker 1: how quickly this goes to mainstream. Let's talk a little

755
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 1: bit about UM millennials. That's something, uh, you focus on

756
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 1: a little bit. We do there there was a UM.

757
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 1: So first of all, there are more twenty six year

758
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 1: olds in the United States than any other single age.

759
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about the work you're doing

760
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 1: with millennials. Sure, well, for nearly a decade now we

761
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 1: have tracked the perceptions and attitudes of millennials around impact

762
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 1: UM and each year we pick a different sort of

763
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: area to focus on. For instance, we've done some years

764
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 1: at our workplace focused where no big surprise, you know,

765
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: they want from their employers focus on more than just

766
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: you know, the bottom line that they will actually take

767
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: in some cases of pay cut to work with the

768
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 1: company that they believe is more about benefiting society and

769
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: then say another offer that they have, ETCeteras that impact

770
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 1: careerism or how would you really describe that? You know,

771
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,839
Speaker 1: what I would say is, I would say it's more

772
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 1: kind of values aligned that um. And we've been working

773
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,959
Speaker 1: with companies for some number of years in our work

774
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: with millennials, you know, because they understand that to attract

775
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 1: and retain this next generation, they can't just be doing

776
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 1: business the same old way. I mean for their conscious consumers.

777
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 1: So if they're selling their products in a consumer market,

778
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 1: they you know, they can't just look like they're all

779
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 1: about profit. They have to have some you know, deeper,

780
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: richer role in society that they can articulate. And the

781
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 1: same is true for attracting best in class talent and

782
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,439
Speaker 1: then retaining them. So there's a statu you have that

783
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I guess I shouldn't be surprised at but

784
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: the numbers are kind of overwhelming. Of millennials believe the

785
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: US is going in the wrong direction or aren't sure

786
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: what direction we're going in only believe the US is

787
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 1: going in the right direction. First question is those numbers

788
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: are astonishing, what do they mean? And second question is

789
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,760
Speaker 1: that a big change from recent or not so recent history.

790
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: Has the younger generation always kind of felt we were

791
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 1: on the wrong track. So I think the I think

792
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 1: the younger generation has always been idealistic. I think what

793
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: separates this young our generation from previous younger generations is

794
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 1: they are at work turning their idealism into activism, like,

795
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,359
Speaker 1: in a very real way, turning their ideas into something real,

796
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: whether it's through the companies they start or work for,

797
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 1: whether it's through something they have on the side, you know,

798
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 1: to to be activists in their communities, etcetera. We just

799
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: really are quite taken aback at the degree of activism

800
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 1: that we're seeing coming out of this new generation. Yes,

801
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: I think it's always been easy to be disillusioned as

802
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: a young person. To your question about the most recent data,

803
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:37,760
Speaker 1: we've not done in longitudinal study on this, but looking

804
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: more broadly at other studies, we do believe it's a

805
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 1: real low um And by the way, the other thing

806
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 1: we really don't have to compare to it because we

807
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 1: only looked at millennials, is how they compare to the

808
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:51,759
Speaker 1: generations ahead of them, gen X, baby Boomers, etcetera. In

809
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 1: terms of how they see the US. But it really

810
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,839
Speaker 1: I I sent a copy of the latest report which

811
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: revealed that data to every sing member of Congress. It

812
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:03,440
Speaker 1: needs to be a wake up call that we have

813
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 1: a generation that's going to completely be defined as our workforce.

814
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: For the most part, they will be the majority workforce. Um,

815
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: they're a huge you know, there's seventy millions strong. They're

816
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 1: not a small pocket. The absolutely, absolutely, we really need

817
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 1: to be paying attention when they say, you know, they

818
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: think we're on the wrong track. And the good news

819
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:25,839
Speaker 1: is they're not just sitting there saying I'm bummed we're

820
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 1: not doing it right. They have ideas, They have real

821
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,799
Speaker 1: resource and things they can bring forward to make a

822
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 1: difference if we engage them and make them part of

823
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 1: a solution. So how do how does this generation's dislike

824
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 1: of the direction we're heading, How does that manifest itself

825
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 1: in the real world. So I think I'm seeing what

826
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 1: I call an equal and opposite reaction. Right, they really

827
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: find distasteful some of the you know, even the headlines

828
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: today they find distasteful. Okay, But instead of sort of

829
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 1: just putting their head in the sand and saying it's

830
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 1: all bad, what I'm seeing is that equal and set

831
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 1: reaction of doubling down on their activism and saying, but

832
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: I'm going to do what I can to make a

833
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 1: difference in some small way. And you know, I'll give

834
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,320
Speaker 1: you an example of sort of some areas of promise

835
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 1: that we've seen. So at the Case Foundation, when technology

836
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 1: was first being used as a means to do um

837
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 1: micro giving. Okay, so small amounts, whether they be ten,

838
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 1: we did some of the early experiments to see what

839
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,879
Speaker 1: was the real potential there. So we put about four

840
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: million dollars of investment into three different giving platforms. To date,

841
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 1: that's yielded over five billion in giving, most of it

842
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,799
Speaker 1: most of it micro giving. So I think when you

843
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 1: look at like Kiva of this World or um go

844
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 1: fund Me, I think the kind of ways that we're seeing.

845
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 1: Literally some of these people are early in their career,

846
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 1: they don't have a lot of extra budget dollars, but

847
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 1: they will make you know, ten dollars available for something

848
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 1: that they really believe in. And you know, too often

849
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: I hear what difference can ten dollars make? But I've

850
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: often said, you know, small amounts, when taken together, can

851
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 1: do powerful things, and we're seeing that play out in society.

852
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,279
Speaker 1: So how what is the role of social media in

853
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 1: all this? You mentioned go fund me. All of these

854
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 1: Kickstarter go down the list of companies, they all have

855
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: an enormous social component. Is this generation different than because

856
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 1: of Facebook and Twitter and everything else in prior generations? Yeah,

857
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 1: I think they are. I mean, I think they're much

858
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 1: more digitally native. Right, they didn't have to unlearn, they

859
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,359
Speaker 1: just had to learn UM and so I think they're

860
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 1: much more comfortable and sort of think first about digital um.

861
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 1: And you know, one of our first studies that we

862
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 1: came out with, we asked them how they're spending their time,

863
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,759
Speaker 1: you know, with their mobile phone or whatever. And at

864
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 1: that time, you know, the generation really had this reputation

865
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: as slackers, etcetera. And one of our earliest studies said,

866
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 1: you know, mimennial said they check their cell phone to

867
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 1: connect with a nonprofit. And so I've often said to

868
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 1: parents into those that kind of want to pass off

869
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: this generation, why don't you think about that? Why don't

870
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 1: you think about you know, digital as being a tool

871
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 1: instead of something they're just playing around with. And of

872
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 1: course social media has really you know, vaulted that in

873
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 1: a meaningful way. So I know, I only have you

874
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,720
Speaker 1: for a finite amount of time. Let me jump into

875
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 1: my standard questions I asked all of my guests, and

876
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: I know you like the one on failure coming up.

877
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:33,239
Speaker 1: Tell us the most important thing people don't know about

878
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: your background raised by a single mom, really tough economic situation,

879
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 1: product of philanthropy myself in what way scholarships were made

880
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 1: available and people who came alongside and helped me and

881
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 1: my family. Tell us about some of your early mentors.

882
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,800
Speaker 1: My mom, she's a single mom raising four kids alone.

883
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 1: She woke up up every day with energy that would

884
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 1: put me in a shame, with a smile on her face,

885
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 1: and that was very inspiring to see. And although she

886
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:07,359
Speaker 1: didn't have much, she made sure we were always doing

887
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 1: for others. So tell us about some of the philanthropists

888
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 1: who have influenced your approach to making your money have

889
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:20,880
Speaker 1: the biggest impact when when you it's involved with the

890
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 1: Case Foundation. Yeah, so it's kind of a little bit

891
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,399
Speaker 1: of a personal story. So when we were building a well,

892
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,319
Speaker 1: next door was another big software company and we knew

893
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 1: the founder and he was a really good guy and

894
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:35,320
Speaker 1: became a friend. But he was doing something pretty radical

895
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 1: that we hadn't seen other companies do, and that was

896
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 1: very early in the stage of success for his company,

897
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:44,799
Speaker 1: he started getting deeply engaged in philanthropy. UM, and we

898
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 1: all marveled at that. We just hadn't seen that he

899
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:48,760
Speaker 1: was a young guy. He was like in his forties.

900
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 1: It was before the I P O. And you know,

901
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,359
Speaker 1: I personally made a note of that and really followed him,

902
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 1: and to this day we're very close friends. But I

903
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 1: think not only he inspired me, but he probably inspired

904
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 1: a full generation of young people who witnessed him, you know,

905
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 1: taking these early actions with his wealth and really making

906
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 1: a difference. What was the software company adjacent to A

907
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 1: O l um? So his name is Mario Marino and

908
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 1: he built a company called Legiant and sure, yeah, it

909
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 1: was Marino and Associates originally, and then it became Legiant,

910
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,839
Speaker 1: and he still engaged. He was deeply engaged, absolutely, and

911
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 1: we're still very good friends to this day. That that's

912
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 1: that's quite fascinating. Um, this is everybody's favorite question. Uh,

913
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 1: tell us about some of your favorite books, fiction, nonfiction, technology, philanthropy, whatever. Well,

914
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 1: I have one book that just completely blew me away.

915
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 1: It's Steven Johnson's How We Got to Now And it's

916
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 1: six Innovations that Changed the world and they're really non obvious,

917
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,840
Speaker 1: and I don't want to give away to your listeners

918
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 1: what they are. But I was so inspired by it

919
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 1: that we decided as a team at the Case Foundation

920
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:00,879
Speaker 1: we'd read it together and we had a nice little

921
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 1: wine and cheese hour where we talked about it and

922
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 1: it's implications to our work. But I think it's highly

923
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 1: relevant to individuals as well as to organizations. And then,

924
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 1: of course my husband's book, The Third Wave. I remember

925
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 1: when The Third Wave came out. How we got to

926
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: now and the Third Wave? You want to give us

927
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 1: a fiction book? What you're reading for fun? You know?

928
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 1: I reread the classics on a routine basis. It's my escape. Um,

929
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 1: so just pick any classics and chances are I've been

930
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:30,240
Speaker 1: through it recently. Okay, UM, let's talk about some things

931
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 1: that have changed over the twenty years you've been running

932
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 1: the Case Foundation. What has been the most significant shift

933
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 1: in the world of philanthropy The democratization of philanthropy. You know,

934
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:44,920
Speaker 1: when I came in, it was still considered rich people

935
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 1: writing checks, and I think someone influenced by our work,

936
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 1: but more broadly, the collaborative approach to really democratizing it

937
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: so that anyone anywhere can be a philanthropist, and I'm

938
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:57,800
Speaker 1: very excited by it. I talked about some of the

939
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 1: stats earlier, UM, and I think it's unstoppable and it's

940
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:04,399
Speaker 1: really how we're going to change the world. Which leads

941
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 1: to the next question, what are the next major shifts

942
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:09,839
Speaker 1: that are taking place in this field? What do you

943
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:13,239
Speaker 1: see as hey, here's an upcoming pivot or change in

944
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 1: that world. Yeah, I would say continuing to move away

945
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 1: from you know, an elite thing to something that all

946
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 1: of us understand. But I also really believe in the

947
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 1: future of everyday philanthropy. And what I mean by that

948
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 1: is that every little action or transaction you might go

949
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 1: through in your day, if something good happens because you

950
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 1: chose that brand or because you know, you went to

951
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 1: this place, I think there's real power in that. So

952
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 1: my friend Jose Andres, celebrated chef, has been down in

953
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:43,279
Speaker 1: Puerto Rico these last few weeks. UM. He posted last

954
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 1: night that he thinks he served over a million meals.

955
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:48,759
Speaker 1: When you have gone to Jose's restaurants in the last

956
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 1: few weeks, you've been helping the people on the ground

957
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 1: in Puerto Rico. So I really believe as more and

958
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:59,080
Speaker 1: more businesses and particularly consumer offerings bake into them some impact,

959
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 1: it will draw I have this generation of consumers and

960
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:05,360
Speaker 1: make a big difference. So you talked earlier about failure.

961
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 1: Tell us about a time you failed and what you

962
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 1: learned from the experience. Well, I've had a lot, so

963
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 1: I'll just give you one quickly. Um, we had a

964
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 1: very large clean water initiative at the Case Foundation, big

965
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 1: high profile. To my left was President Clinton, to my

966
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:24,879
Speaker 1: right was first Lady Laura Bush. When we launched it,

967
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:27,920
Speaker 1: and it didn't go well, and it's a bit of

968
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:29,880
Speaker 1: a longer story, but I'll shorten it for you and

969
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 1: just say that it really was an important moment in

970
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 1: the history of the Foundation and for me personally, because

971
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:38,399
Speaker 1: it was so high profile, because we've had so many

972
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 1: engaged in the work. When we realized it wasn't working,

973
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 1: we spent about a year trying to course correct, realized

974
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 1: that wasn't happening. Finally had to come clean. So I yeah, exactly. UM.

975
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:53,880
Speaker 1: So I wrote a blog called the Painful Acknowledgement of

976
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 1: Coming up Short, and I just aired out everything that

977
00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 1: had failed. Um, And that was really the beginning of

978
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 1: opening dialogue across our nonprofit and philanthropy sector around things

979
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 1: that didn't work, because immediately I started getting phone calls

980
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 1: and notes thanking me for talking about something that failed,

981
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 1: and we knew we were onto something publicly, and I

982
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: really feared quite the opposite. I feared that they would

983
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 1: accuse me of waste, fraud, in abuse. I mean, I

984
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:24,840
Speaker 1: remember my finger on that sind button and I didn't

985
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 1: want to do it. Ultimately I did, and I looked

986
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 1: back and it was one of the more important things

987
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 1: we've ever done. Um And of course we don't like failure.

988
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 1: We you know, we did test failure. We want excellence

989
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 1: in all things, but we recognized to try to do big,

990
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 1: extraordinary things. You're probably not going to bat a thousand.

991
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:44,319
Speaker 1: I have to respond to you with with two really

992
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 1: interesting points. One, if you read Ray Dalio's new book

993
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 1: Principles or or his pdf on it I have, he

994
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 1: discusses very early on, I mean fifteen years ago, the

995
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 1: importance of acknowledging failure, learning from it, and moving on.

996
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 1: And what I took from him some years ago was

997
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 1: the opportunity to do a public Mia culta every year.

998
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:10,279
Speaker 1: Here's what I got wrong and here's what I learned

999
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:13,960
Speaker 1: from it. It's tremendously freeing because it allows you to

1000
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:16,919
Speaker 1: call other people out, Hey, this is wrong, you're wrong

1001
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 1: about this, this is now. You have the wrong conclusion here,

1002
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:23,440
Speaker 1: because you're shielded from someone saying what makes you say

1003
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 1: you're so perfect? I'm not. I got all these things exactly.

1004
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:28,800
Speaker 1: I talked about it. Did you find it was freeing

1005
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:31,319
Speaker 1: to say, all right, here's where we messed up, and

1006
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:33,320
Speaker 1: and here's the takeaway. Yeah, but I'm not going to

1007
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:35,919
Speaker 1: kid you. It was really scary. And so I say

1008
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:38,440
Speaker 1: that because, as you know, people out there listening no

1009
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:40,759
Speaker 1: matter where they are in their walk in life. It's

1010
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 1: not easy to do, but it is really worthwhile to do,

1011
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 1: is to acknowledge failure and make sure that you know

1012
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 1: failure matters to you and you learn from it, but

1013
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 1: that you also allow others to learn from your failure

1014
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 1: so they can avoid them. I think we are we

1015
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 1: don't know how to be wrong in I don't want

1016
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:00,719
Speaker 1: to say just our society. Many societies right, And it's

1017
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 1: a skill set that that people have to learn. So

1018
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 1: let me get to my last two questions. These are

1019
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 1: everybody's uh favorite questions. Tell us what you do to

1020
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 1: relax outside of the office. What do you do to

1021
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 1: stay mentally and or physically fit. I get out in nature.

1022
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 1: I'm a big lover of both state and national parks,

1023
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:20,879
Speaker 1: and I spend a tremendous amount of time each year

1024
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:23,720
Speaker 1: in them. Um. I love to hike, I love to kayak,

1025
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:25,840
Speaker 1: I love to do all kinds of crazy things, but

1026
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:28,760
Speaker 1: I need nature. I live in Washington, d C. And

1027
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:30,800
Speaker 1: it's kind of a joke between me and my husband.

1028
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 1: He knows I need a fix as the end of

1029
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 1: the week is coming and we have to get out.

1030
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 1: And then our final question. If a millennial came to

1031
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:41,800
Speaker 1: you and said, or someone just beginning their career and said,

1032
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 1: I'm interested in filling the blank technology, venture capital, philanthropy, whatever,

1033
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:51,360
Speaker 1: what sort of advice would you give them? Um, I

1034
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:54,239
Speaker 1: would hopefully be encouraging in their path, but ask them

1035
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 1: to ask the question along the way, what impact can

1036
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 1: you have in that role? You know, it's often believed

1037
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 1: that today to being a change the world environment, you

1038
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:04,279
Speaker 1: need to be at an impact company or at a

1039
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 1: nonprofit or out on the front lines, when in fact,

1040
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 1: some of the ways you can most dramatically change the

1041
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 1: world is to go to traditional places and be the

1042
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:15,920
Speaker 1: change maker within UM. And we need big brands, you know,

1043
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 1: having those kind of radical thinkers inside, people who are

1044
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 1: bringing a mission to their role, no matter where they

1045
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:25,560
Speaker 1: sit or what they do. We have been speaking with

1046
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 1: Gene Case. She is formally a senior executive at America

1047
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:33,520
Speaker 1: Online and now is CEO of the Case Foundation. Thank you,

1048
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 1: Jean for being generous with your time. Appreciate it. If

1049
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 1: you enjoy this conversation, be sure and look up an

1050
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:43,920
Speaker 1: Inch or down an Inch on Apple iTunes, over class, SoundCloud,

1051
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 1: wherever fine podcasts are sold, and you can see our

1052
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 1: other hundred and sixty or so such previous podcasts. We

1053
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 1: love your comments, feedback and suggestions right to us at

1054
00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 1: m IB podcast at Bloomberg dot net. I would be

1055
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 1: remiss if I did not think my crack staff who

1056
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:08,280
Speaker 1: helps me put together uh these conversations every week. Michael

1057
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:11,520
Speaker 1: Batnick is my head of research. Taylor Riggs is our

1058
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 1: book of producer. Medina Parwana is our audio producer and

1059
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 1: engineer par Excellence. I'm Barry Riholts. You've been listening to

1060
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 1: Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio.