1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:08,479 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, A sickoe purv fifth grade 2 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: teacher thirty four has a baby with her boy student 3 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: age eleven. Whoa wait, a thirty four year old woman 4 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: has a sex relationship. That's called right, that's not a 5 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: relationship with an eleven year old boy that is in 6 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: her class in the fifth grade. I still remember my 7 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 1: fifth grade teacher, Katie Amerson, one of the best teachers 8 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:44,200 Speaker 1: I ever had. That's my happy memory. This eleven year 9 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:48,639 Speaker 1: old boy fathers a baby with his thirty four year 10 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: old fifth grade teacher. Okay, I'm Nancy Grace, this is 11 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Fifth grade 12 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: teacher Laura Corone sparks a close friendship with the mom 13 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: of one of her students, But things on when a 14 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: Facebook post reveals a bombshell secret. 15 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:07,479 Speaker 2: Okay, a bombshell secret. 16 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: How is that a secret when you carry a baby 17 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: nine months and give birth. 18 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:14,279 Speaker 2: Let's just start at the beginning. Listen. 19 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 3: Laura Karen, twenty six, has been teaching fifth grade in 20 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 3: Middle Township Elementary School for just over two years. When 21 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 3: she begins to develop a close relationship with her male 22 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 3: student's mother. The mom knows her two younger children will 23 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 3: also come through Karen's class and they become fast friends 24 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 3: with me. 25 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: An all star panel to make sense of what we 26 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: are learning right now. But first I want to go 27 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: straight out to a renowned psychologist, doctor John Delatory, before 28 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: I get into the facts. 29 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 2: I think I need a shrink on this. 30 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: A thirty four year old female teacher. A lot of 31 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: people want to say has sex with an eleven year 32 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: old student. When that teacher is a female, that's statutory rape. Okay, 33 00:01:55,360 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: let's don't say had sex with doctor Delatory. I don't 34 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: get it. I don't understand it. A it's a crime, 35 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: but B, this didn't just happen one time. 36 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 2: According to reports, this went on for years. 37 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: And what nobody noticed the teacher was pregnant for Pete's sake. 38 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: I don't understand how that can happen under the noses 39 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: of the school. I don't understand how that can happen 40 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: and nobody figures it out. And the attraction, let's start 41 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: with the attraction. I don't understand that. 42 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, So I think when we're looking at the age 43 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 4: of the victim in this case, we're potentially looking at 44 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 4: a possible diagnosis of pedophilic disorder. Now, with pedophilic disorder, 45 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 4: we're dealing with individuals who will cross sexual boundaries or 46 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 4: offend against children, typically thirteen years or younger, over the 47 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 4: course of six months or longer. It's clear that that's 48 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 4: obviously what happened. I mean, she ended up getting pregnant 49 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 4: by the victim in this case. You're absolutely right, Nancy. 50 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 4: We can't use the word had sex with because that 51 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 4: applies some level of consent. There's no consent when the 52 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 4: victim in the case is eleven years old. It doesn't 53 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 4: matter if it's a boy or a girl. It does 54 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 4: not matter. This woman offended against this child. This child 55 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 4: is a victim. 56 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: This child is going Hey, okay, Delatory, Delatory, Delatory control room. 57 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 2: Can you please show me Karen's photo again? 58 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: Okay? I want to want Delatory to look at her. 59 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: This is the question I'm saying online. She's young, she's pretty, 60 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: she's fit. 61 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 2: Look at her. What there are no men her age? 62 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: She has to pray on an eleven year old boy? 63 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 2: What is her problem? 64 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: And when you say some kind of pedophilic what did 65 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: you say a pedophilic what pedophilic disorder? 66 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 2: Pedophilic disorder? This is not a disorder. 67 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: Why are you saying that? Because see, I think you're 68 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: stirring the pot. You're putting fuel. 69 00:03:59,160 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 2: To the flame. 70 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: De Tory, this is a crime. You're acting like it's 71 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: an illness, a disorder. 72 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 4: Well, here's the thing is that I'm not a lawyer, right, 73 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 4: I'm not a judge, I'm not a cop. My job 74 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 4: as a psychologist is to explain what exactly it is 75 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 4: that's going on. We as psychologist, especially me, as someone 76 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 4: who's treated sex offenders before, see this as a disorder. 77 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 2: We see this as. 78 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 4: Something that can be treated but has underlying pathology, underlying 79 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 4: psychological issues. Are there men her age, of course there are? 80 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 4: Are there single men her age, of course there are. 81 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 4: But she convinced herself that she was having a relationship 82 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 4: with this eleven year old. In her mind, she believed 83 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 4: what she was doing was wrong. That's disordered thinking, Nancy. 84 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 4: That's where psychologist comes in. 85 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 5: Right. 86 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 2: Yes, it's a crime, of course, it's crime. 87 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 4: Is always going to be a crime. But some things 88 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 4: need to be treated, some things need to kind of 89 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 4: understand from a psychological conspective in order to prevent it 90 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:56,359 Speaker 4: from happening again. 91 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 2: Okay, you know what. 92 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: It was my fault for asking you the question. I 93 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: can't blame you. I blame myself because I ask you why. 94 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: And frankly, why doesn't matter. It took me five years 95 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: prosecuting violent felonies to stop looking over at the defendant 96 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: in the middle of court thinking why would you cause 97 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: this wake of pain? Leaving it behind you because of 98 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: what you did? Why doesn't matter? And when you say treatment, 99 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: I hope she can get treatment behind bars. And I 100 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: think I know someone's going to disagree with you. Anna 101 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: Sonoda joining me. She is an expert in child sex abuse. 102 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 1: She's a grooming expert, a clinical social worker. She also 103 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: counsels convicted sex offenders. I would not want to spend 104 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: my day doing that. And she is the author of 105 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: Duck Groom. Help me Out, Anna Sonoda, I hear delatory 106 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: from his point of view talking about treatment to Hay 107 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: with treatment, she needs to be behind bars for a 108 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: really long time. I don't know who's going to raise 109 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: this baby. She gave birth to the father at eleven 110 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: year old. Student Nandy. 111 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 6: You mentioned before the most important part, which is not 112 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 6: why they do it, it's how they do it. Your audience 113 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 6: needs to recognize that grooming took place, and that predators 114 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 6: often groom the parents or the caregivers of their identified 115 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 6: target in advance or alongside the child they're grooming. In 116 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 6: this case, we see that she had access through her 117 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 6: role as a teacher, and she developed a close relationship 118 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 6: with the child's mother, and this set this young, poor 119 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 6: victim up for failure from the get go. 120 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 2: Ron Bateman joining me. 121 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: Former homicide undercover narcotics hes at ronbaatemanbooks dot com, author 122 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,799 Speaker 1: of a crime trilogy, Ron Bateman, you know we're hearing 123 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: a lot about treatment and counseling for this woman. I'm 124 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: not quite sure you and I are on the same page. 125 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 7: Please respond, Oh my god, we are definitely on the 126 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 7: same page. Treatment. Yeah, like you said, treatment behind bars. 127 00:06:58,520 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 7: But you know, as a cop, the first thing I 128 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 7: think think of is this the first time? You think 129 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 7: this is the first kid eleven years old, if she's 130 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 7: ever touched, I highly doubt it. This is just the 131 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 7: first one she's been caught on. And you know what 132 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 7: I think about the long term effect that's going to 133 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 7: be on this poor child. Can you see him now? Hey, daddy, 134 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 7: how do you? Mommy me? 135 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: Oh? 136 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 7: She was my fifth grade teacher. Really give me a. 137 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: Break, Oh the way you just said that. Guys, the 138 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: seminal case are there are a couple of them. Let's start 139 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: with possibly the most famous one that brought to the 140 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: forefront of our national conscious, the phenomena of a female 141 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: sex predator praying on children, specifically their students. 142 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 2: Mary Kay Laturno. 143 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: Listen, I did something that I had no right to do, 144 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: Laura Lee or legally. 145 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 2: It was wrong. 146 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 6: I'm sorry. 147 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: That's Mary Kay Laturno in court after she gives birth 148 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: to a baby by her student. 149 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 2: The that's from our friends at NBC. Listen. 150 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 8: Steve Laturno finds love letters written by his pregnant wife, 151 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 8: but they aren't to him. The letters are for one 152 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 8: of Mary Kay Laturno's students, a twelve year old boy 153 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 8: she's been tutoring since he was eight. It turns out 154 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 8: Laturno's pregnancy is a result of a sexual relationship with 155 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 8: the boy. Laturno is sentenced to three months in prison 156 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 8: as part of a plea agreement, but after her release, 157 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 8: Laturno's caught having sex with the student again. Laturno's agreement 158 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 8: is revoked and she gives birth to the boy's second child. 159 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:44,199 Speaker 8: Eight months into her seven year sentence, so she gets. 160 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,959 Speaker 1: Out on a light sentence because she is an attractive female. 161 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 2: She gets slap on the wrist. 162 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: She gets out after a few more months, and what 163 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: does she do immediately violate the judge's order and she 164 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: is caught in a steamed up vehicle in the middle 165 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: of the night with the boys student back in the car. Okay, yeah, 166 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: her this hit the news in a big way. Joining 167 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: me is Mark Tate, a veteran trial lawyer out of 168 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: the Savannah jurisdiction with the Tate Law Group. Mark, I mean, 169 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: wouldn't you counselor your client listen, can you just stay 170 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: away from the little boy you've gotten out in three months? 171 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 2: Stay away from him, go have sex with somebody else. 172 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: And I'd like to to point out that I heard 173 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:33,959 Speaker 1: Crime Online dot Com reporter Holden Zapple referring to it 174 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 1: as sex. 175 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 2: It's not. It's rape. It is statutory rape. Think about it, 176 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:40,559 Speaker 2: Mark Tate. 177 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:42,959 Speaker 1: And this is what I'm sure you've seen many prosecutors 178 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: do with juries. 179 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 2: I'm sure you've done it in civil. 180 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: Cases where you say, what if this boy because v 181 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: Filao was six feet at least, what if this boy 182 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: was an eleven year old girl. Think about it, Think 183 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: about that, and sometimes you have to do that. 184 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 9: I think the gender of the victim really in this instance, 185 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 9: I don't think that it helps. I don't think it 186 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 9: hurts her. She's going to jail. What she did is 187 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 9: indefensible in terms of her guilt. The only way to 188 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 9: deal with what this lady, miss Karan or Karan did, 189 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 9: I think most likely is going to be focusing on 190 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 9: what the sentencing is going to be. And I know 191 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 9: that many people are heavily in favor you included Nancy 192 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 9: in incarceration, and that's going to be a way to 193 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 9: stop or prevent her or even others perhaps from doing it. 194 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 9: But incarcerating this lady for a lengthy period of time 195 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 9: only means she's going to get out and be a hardened, 196 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 9: possibly smarter, more dangerous predator. And so to some extent, 197 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 9: I agree with mister or doctor Delatore that she's going 198 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 9: to have to while in prison, which I certainly deserved here. 199 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 9: She's going to have to get some kind of counseling 200 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 9: or she's going to run out of money to hire lawyers, 201 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 9: and she's not going to have any hope of really, 202 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:04,559 Speaker 9: and we're not going to have who really is a society? 203 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 2: Are you about her recovering? 204 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 9: Well, we don't want her to get us and go 205 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 9: out and keep doing this. 206 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 10: We got to stop. 207 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 2: No, I don't want her to get loose. Period. 208 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: You can in the sentence right there, take I don't 209 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:18,199 Speaker 1: want her. 210 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 2: To get you where a man, she would get twenty 211 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:22,559 Speaker 2: to life hard time. 212 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 9: She's not going to get twenty to life. She's facing 213 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 9: ten to twenty. So we got to deal with not 214 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 9: what Nancy Grace's justice is. We got to deal with 215 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 9: what's going to happen in New Jersey. And she's going 216 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 9: to eventually be free, and when we let her go, 217 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 9: we need. 218 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: To make sure she's because it's happening in New Jersey. 219 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: Just because it's happening, just because it's being done, doesn't 220 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: mean it should be done. Ron Bateman, the disparity between 221 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: female and male sentences in sex crimes is astonishing. And 222 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: did you just hear him Mark Tate talking about getting 223 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: her treatment tree, Yeah. 224 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 7: You know it's and he's right. She is going to 225 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 7: get out and it's not going to be a maximum 226 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 7: sentence is twenty okay? And she's going to get good time. 227 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 7: Hopefully she'll get treatment inside, but she's going to have 228 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 7: to be monitored so closely like a dog in a cage, 229 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:17,199 Speaker 7: to keep her from doing this again. 230 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 10: It began with one or two nights a week. What 231 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 10: started as an innocent enough sleepover at teacher Laura Karen's 232 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 10: home soon spiraled into every parents for snightmare? 233 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 2: Okay, wait a minute, a sleepover? Wait? 234 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: Joining me an all star panel to make sense of 235 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: what we're learning right now. In addition to Mark Tate, 236 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: doctor John de la Torre, Ron Bateman, and a Sonoda 237 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: joining me now, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Dave 238 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 1: Matt So, Dave matt, I want you to explain to me. 239 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: So the parents let the children sleep over at the 240 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: teacher's house. 241 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 3: Apparently, n Nancy, This is ultimately a grooming thing that 242 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 3: took place. This fifth grade teach began her relationship with 243 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 3: the mother. That's how she developed because she knew that 244 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 3: the mom has three children and all three will be 245 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:09,839 Speaker 3: coming through her class as a fifth grade teacher, So 246 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 3: she gets the oldest one, and that's where she begins 247 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 3: the relationship with the mom, knowing and mom knowing that 248 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 3: she's going to be my fifth grade teacher for my 249 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 3: two other children. They begin that relationship, and all of 250 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 3: a sudden, the fifth grade teacher begins babysitting. Hey, it's convenient. 251 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 3: We know her, we trust her, so she makes a 252 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 3: great babysitter. And that's where it all started. 253 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 2: Okay, Dave Matt, isn't it true that you have a son? 254 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am, Okay, I would not allow it. 255 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 6: No. 256 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: Do you remember when he was Do you remember when 257 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: he was eleven? 258 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 6: Yep? 259 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 2: Okay. 260 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: Can I tell you something. I had the greatest fifth 261 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: grade teacher. She wasn't the only one at our public 262 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: school out in the middle of rural bib County, doctor 263 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: John H. Hurd Elementary School, Miss Amison, and of course 264 00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 1: my kindergarten, first grade, second grade, third grade, fifth grade 265 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: and more teachers all sat behind our family at the 266 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: Liberty United Methist Church on Sunday mornings too. 267 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 2: All right. It was a very close knit Okay. 268 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: They were sitting right there behind me on Sunday mornings 269 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: with my family. That said, I get it because knowing 270 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: those teachers, Dave mac and how wonderful they were. They 271 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: taught not only me, my sister and my brother, but 272 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: my mother. Okay, they taught my mother in elementary school. 273 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: We knew them forever. And yes, yes, I could see 274 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: them babysitting for us and not thinking about it. 275 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 2: Twice, So I get it. But you were talking about the. 276 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: Grooming process, how the grooming started with the mother. The 277 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: teacher got to be friends with the mother, right. 278 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 2: Right, That's exactly what happened. Okay, hold on, I'm glad 279 00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 2: you told me that. 280 00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: Wait a second, because I want to take that one 281 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: tidbit and go out to Annasinota joining us author of 282 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: Duck Duck Groom, Anna Sonoda. 283 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 2: I get that part. 284 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: I get it because if my mom had hired a babysitter, 285 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: which we couldn't have because we couldn't afford it. 286 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 2: But that's it. 287 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: If we had a babysitter, I could see any of 288 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: the teachers I just referred to first, second, third, fourth, fifth, 289 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: and beyond as being the babysitter. 290 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 2: They were that trusted and that close to our family. 291 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 6: You're absolutely right. Over ninety percent of the time the 292 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 6: victims are victimized by someone known and trusted, not just 293 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 6: to the child themselves, but to the caregivers. And this 294 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 6: case highlights the fact that when predators are positioned in 295 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 6: environments close to minors with access in space, predators will 296 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 6: take advantage of that every time. Here you have a 297 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 6: teacher who's well positioned in the school system. She has 298 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 6: gained respect. She started this job in twenty fourteen, began 299 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 6: a relationship with the child and the child's mother, and 300 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 6: exploited and charged upon that trust in order to get 301 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 6: what she wanted, which was a sexual abuse situation with 302 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 6: the child. This is an appalling abusive power and every 303 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 6: listener needs to recognize that they are vulnerable as the 304 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 6: adult when it comes to protecting their child from potential predators, 305 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 6: even in trusting environments such as school. 306 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: Guys, we were talking about a thirty four year old 307 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: teacher giving birth to the baby of an eleven year 308 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: old fifth grade student. The teacher has started babysitting for 309 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: the family and that graduated into sleepovers of the siblings. 310 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: When they would be babysat by this teacher could spend 311 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: the night listen. 312 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 8: The younger siblings noticed strange behavior from Karen and their 313 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 8: eleven year old brother, and in the morning, the eldest 314 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 8: brother's bed is usually empty. His siblings typically find him 315 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 8: on the first floor, coming from Karen's bedroom. The younger 316 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 8: siblings also frequently catch Karen going into the bathroom while 317 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 8: their brother showers, then exiting with him, also wet and 318 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 8: wearing a towel. 319 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: Okay, so let me understand Dave Matt joining us klim 320 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 1: online dot com. Not only the eleven year old boy, 321 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,640 Speaker 1: but the siblings would all stit spend the night occasionally 322 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:17,959 Speaker 1: with the fifth grade teacher. 323 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 2: Yep. 324 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 3: And you know, think about it, Nancy, wouldn't that La 325 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,439 Speaker 3: Just it would make you not worry as much because 326 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 3: all three of my kids are over there. They're all safe, 327 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 3: they're with their teacher. But she played it out right 328 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 3: in front of them. The kids knew something was going on. 329 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,199 Speaker 3: She didn't hide it. I mean, David, all go to 330 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 3: bed upstairs. 331 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 1: Up, Wait a minute, Dave Matt isn't the eleven year 332 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,159 Speaker 1: old boy. Is he the oldest of the three siblings, Yes, 333 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: he is. Okay, So a lot of times you see 334 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: things as a child and you don't understand that they're wrong. Right, 335 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 1: So the younger siblings who are under eleven, may have 336 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: seen the teacher going in and out of the bathroom 337 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: when the eleven year old was in the bathroom and 338 00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: didn't realize anything was wrong too, Doctor John Dell Tori 339 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:04,959 Speaker 1: joining me, renounced psychologist, You may first ask, well, why 340 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 1: didn't they tell their parents? 341 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 2: They may not have realized there was anything to tell parents. 342 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, you're exactly right, Nancy. What they know is that 343 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 4: something is different, but they don't know something is wrong. 344 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 4: And depending on how their parents presented sexual behaviors and 345 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 4: what is bad touch and what is good touch, what 346 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 4: authority is, what trust is depending on that, they may 347 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 4: not be sophisticated enough to know that their brother is 348 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 4: being abused, and the brother doesn't know any different, right, 349 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 4: The oldest of them just thinks that he's getting all 350 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 4: of this special attention. She wants everybody to believe that 351 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 4: everything is happening is okay, that nothing is going wrong. 352 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 4: By not calling attention to stuff, by making sure everybody's there, 353 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 4: all the children are there together, she's kind of making 354 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 4: sure that no suspicion is brought upon her, that she's 355 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 4: actually engaging in criminal acts. 356 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. 357 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 10: South Jersey fifth grade teacher Laura Karen is accused of 358 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 10: sexually abusing her student for four years but the horrors 359 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 10: don't stop. There. Authorities alleged the thirteen year old victim 360 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 10: is the father of Karen's five year old son. 361 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,199 Speaker 1: Well, there's your evidence. All you need is a DNA 362 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: test on the baby boy. And let me just tell you, 363 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 1: the family noticed first, without any DNA test, that the 364 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:35,679 Speaker 1: little baby looked like the boy had the eleven year 365 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: old boy had spit him out. He'll just like the 366 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: eleven year old boy. The similarity was overwhelming. Guys, in 367 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: our digital age, the possibility for teachers to pray on 368 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: their students is has skyrocketed exponentially. I'm talking about a teacher, 369 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: Pamela Rogers, who raped her student. 370 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 11: Listen, I'm betraying my profession and then sent them that 371 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 11: I'm truly ashamed of. Can I betray the family and 372 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,679 Speaker 11: the victim. 373 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 12: Pamela Rogers, a pe teacher and coach at Centertown Elementary, 374 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 12: happens to have a close friend's thirteen year old son 375 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 12: in her class. When Rogers falls between places, the mom 376 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 12: allows Rogers to stay with her for a few months. 377 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 12: During the stay, she finds her son in bed with Rogers. 378 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 12: Rogers spends nine months in jail and on her release, 379 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 12: strikes up her relationship with the boy again, sending him 380 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 12: provocative and even nude photos and videos using her father's 381 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 12: cell phone. 382 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: Oh my stars, it's Mary Kayla Turno all over again. 383 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 2: The mom gives Pamela. 384 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: Rogers a place to crash for a few weeks, finds 385 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 1: Pamela Rogers, the teacher in bed with her son. Pamela 386 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 1: Rogers goes to jail, and what does she do The 387 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: minute she gets out after a few months out out 388 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: behind bars, she's back at it, praying on a little boy. 389 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 1: Now it doesn't just in there. You heard that Pamela 390 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: Rodgers would send videos. 391 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 2: Look at this video. Brace yourself. This is okay. 392 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:18,640 Speaker 1: Here she's slinking up the camera. Oh, this is too 393 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: A little boy, a thirteen just turned thirteen year old 394 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 1: little boy. And trust me, I've cut this video. I 395 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: have cut a lot of it out because she turns 396 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 1: around and gives a serious booty shot show after this. Okay, 397 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: control room seen enough of Pamela Rogers shimmying up the 398 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: camera joining me in a sonoda, Child sex abuse and 399 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: grooming expert, author of Duck Duck Groom, Anna, did you 400 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: see the video? How can the parents know? Unless they 401 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,400 Speaker 1: come through the child's phone every night that the teacher, 402 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 1: of all people is sending these videos. 403 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:56,959 Speaker 2: Nancy. 404 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 6: The thing about predators is that they are everywhere, but 405 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 6: they're not everyone, and they stand out in their strange behavior. 406 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 6: You know, we used to hear the term stranger danger. 407 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 6: I want your audience to remember strange behavior. These teachers 408 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 6: are clear examples of distorted, sick women who are showing 409 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 6: and displaying repeatedly strange behavior after strange behavior. And in 410 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 6: this situation, you have a keen audience because you have 411 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 6: a classroom of vulnerable students, and predators are selective. They 412 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 6: can select the families and the children to groom in 413 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 6: order to be successful in their abuse. And these cases 414 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 6: are devastating for the male victims. 415 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 1: You know, Dolatory, this teacher, she looks like she should 416 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: be on a stripper pole at the Gold Club. Whatever, 417 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 1: Doctor DELATORI she made that video with a little boy 418 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,679 Speaker 1: in mind. It's not why she was putting it on 419 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: her OnlyFans website for grown men. That was made specifically 420 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: for a little boy. At what point, and I'm going 421 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: to follow up with criminal defense attorney Mark Tate, at 422 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 1: what point when you're doing something wrong. Do you not go, hey, 423 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: this is wrong? 424 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 2: Do criminals not? 425 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: When I even tell a lie I feel hot all over. 426 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,400 Speaker 1: I'm convinced I'm going to be caught because I always am. 427 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: I feel bad about it. Does that not kick in 428 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: with criminals? I mean, she's making this video and it's 429 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 1: specifically expressly made to send a little boy who's just 430 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: turned thirteen. At what point do you go, hey, I 431 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: should probably put some clothes on and not send this video. 432 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 4: They did it early, very early on, potentially even before 433 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 4: they even decided to engage in a contact abuse right 434 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 4: where they actually decided to touch the victim. But that 435 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 4: was overridden right by the compulsion to want to abuse 436 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 4: the victim. It was overridden by the justifications and rationalizations 437 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 4: that they tell themselves that they tell other people. 438 00:23:58,880 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 6: Right. 439 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 4: We see all these videos of them, you know, with 440 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 4: Mary Kayla Turno and Pamela Rogers apologizing while they're in court. 441 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 4: They're only sorry that they got If they were actually sorry, 442 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 4: then they never would have done it in the beginning. 443 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 4: So everything is about their own compulsion in satisfying their 444 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,160 Speaker 4: own needs that it overrides the guilty feelings that every 445 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 4: other one of us who wouldn't do this, would be experiencing. 446 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 2: In a sonoda. 447 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 1: It seems to me we're talking a lot tonight about 448 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: treatment and making the rapist get better. 449 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 2: I mean, have I lost my mind? What about the boy? 450 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 6: You haven't lost your mind, Nancy. I think our focus 451 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 6: needs to be on this young victim, not to mention 452 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,400 Speaker 6: he is a victim here, but also this five year 453 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 6: old baby who was born out of a rape. Now 454 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 6: this is going to be something that he will have 455 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 6: to come to terms with as he grows and develops. 456 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 6: You've got two very severely damaged young boys in this situation, 457 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 6: and it can be a lifelong recovery for victims and 458 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 6: survivors of child sexual abuse. But it certainly improved outcomes 459 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 6: when there are consequences for predators. And too often with 460 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,679 Speaker 6: female offenders, we just write it off and we say, oh, 461 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 6: she's not that harmful, she's not that much of a 462 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 6: concern to society, and. 463 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: In factful, wait a minute, Anna a sonoda, I think 464 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 1: that there are other victims. 465 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,400 Speaker 13: Listen to this, Anna, Well, Karen and the children watch 466 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 13: TV before bed. Karen always sits with the eldest, eleven 467 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 13: year old boy in a reclining chair. The two younger 468 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 13: children usually fall asleep while watching a movie, but one evening, 469 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 13: the middle brother, eight, wakes up and notices Karen and 470 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 13: his brother shifting around in the reclining chair. The two 471 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 13: are covered by a blanket, but he can tell Karen's 472 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 13: hand is moving under the blanket on his brother's genitals. 473 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 1: Anna, Sinota, you were mentioning victims. What about the siblings 474 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,159 Speaker 1: of this boy that were there when all of this 475 00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: was happening. Anna, could you describe how this affects a child, 476 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 1: even a boy, for the rest of their lives. 477 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 6: Anna, I think one of the ways that we can 478 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 6: improve outcomes is from a acknowledging that when female predators 479 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 6: abuse young male victims, it is the exact same damage 480 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 6: as if the genders were reversed. What we have in 481 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:27,640 Speaker 6: society is allowing female predators to quote unquote educate young 482 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 6: boys about sex and intimacy, and that fance does not 483 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:38,199 Speaker 6: facilitate recovery and growth for victims. First of all, we 484 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 6: need to be glad that in this case it was 485 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 6: even reported. We had to wait for a baby to 486 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 6: turn five before we even acknowledge that this abuse was 487 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 6: going on. What we have to keep in mind is 488 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 6: that males who are victimized in their youth rarely reported. 489 00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:00,640 Speaker 6: Female predators rarely get charged or convicted. If they are convicted, 490 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 6: they get reduced sentences at enormous rates, and it perverses 491 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 6: sexual relationships for the adult survivors as they go through 492 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 6: their relationships. So this is an enormous problem that we 493 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 6: all must acknowledge and to even take that first step 494 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 6: of awareness that females can be predators. We often think 495 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 6: of females as the safe gender, the safe sex. Well, 496 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 6: these cases, Nancy highlight the fact that parents need to 497 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 6: be on guard for signs of grooming and then if 498 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 6: they recognize any of those day. 499 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 2: And what do you mean by signs of grooming? 500 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 6: There are four stages of grooming Nancy, flattery, favoritism, forbidden fruits, 501 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 6: and fear. These predators are selective and intentional. The grooming 502 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 6: process is incremental. I think we need to highlight that 503 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 6: grooming is going on and when it does, it's observable. 504 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,400 Speaker 3: The boy's mother is scrolling through Facebook when she comes 505 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 3: across with Laura Karen's son, who's now five years old. 506 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 3: She shows the photo to her husband, who comments that 507 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 3: the boy looks strikingly similar to their oldest son. Their 508 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 3: daughter's reaction to that comment sparks an interrogation, and she 509 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 3: gives them enough information to immediately call their son with 510 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 3: his mom. He admits he fathered Karen's baby, but he 511 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 3: begs her to let it go because he doesn't want 512 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 3: Karen to get in trouble. 513 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 1: So let me understand. Dave Matt joining US Crime online 514 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter. Scrolling through Facebook, the mother spots 515 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 1: the baby's picture and says, that is uncanny. 516 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 2: It looks just like our son. 517 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 1: Tell me, that's how the case got cracked open. The 518 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: similarity was so uncanny. 519 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 3: She showed it to her husband, the boy's father, and said, 520 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 3: take a look at this. He looks at it and 521 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 3: posts on Facebook and just says, there's no way this 522 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 3: is my DNA, this is my son's. He went public 523 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 3: with it right then, and that's when everything happened. I mean, 524 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 3: it was amazing how quick it all went up when 525 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 3: he posted that on Facebook. 526 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 14: Nancy Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Dave mac Is it 527 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 14: true that the boys the victim, the eleven year old boy, 528 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 14: allowed all the siblings to move in with the teacher 529 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 14: that started as her babysitting, then occasional sleepovers, to the 530 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 14: point they let the children all move in with the teacher. 531 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 3: Yes, we don't know the reason why. We don't know 532 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,959 Speaker 3: what happened. That hasn't been public yet, but we do 533 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 3: know that for a period of time, the parents allowed 534 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 3: all three children to live and be under the care 535 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 3: of this so called teacher. She was considered like a 536 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 3: foster parent. I think in New Jersey they have a 537 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 3: different term. They don't use false parent. They call them 538 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 3: a resource family parent or something along those lines. And 539 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,479 Speaker 3: yet that's exactly what was happening. They spent years with 540 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 3: this woman in her care without mom and dad. I 541 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 3: don't know where mom and dad were or what was 542 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 3: going on. Yeah, they're referred to as a resource family parent. 543 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 3: That's what a foster parent is called. And that's how 544 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 3: she was treated as this went forward. No idea why yet, 545 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 3: Oh this is. 546 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: Like carding your children off, Sure, keep them okay? Is 547 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: bringing to mind another many people believe is a beautiful 548 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: young teacher. When I look at her, I just say, 549 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: mills abub the Devil's hints person. I'm talking about Deborah 550 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: lefav listen. 551 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 3: A fourteen year old Florida boy takes his obviously older 552 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 3: girlfriend to visit his cousin. His aunt, Alarm tells his mother. 553 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 3: The boy admits the woman as his married eighth grade 554 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 3: English teacher, Deborah La Fave. La Fay blames her four 555 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 3: sex encounters with the boy on hyper sexuality due to 556 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 3: bipolar disease. Deboraha Fave's attorney, John Fitzgibbons says in court 557 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 3: to play Debbie into a federal state woman's finite entry. 558 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 3: To place an attractive young woman in that kind of 559 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 3: hell hole is like putting a piece of raw meat 560 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 3: in with the lions. Leaveb is sentenced to just three 561 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 3: years of house arrest and lifetime registration as a sex offender. 562 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 2: So why do you think you got all the attention? 563 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 10: I don't know, I'll say I Do you think it's 564 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 10: because you're pretty? 565 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 2: I think so. 566 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: In sex South, I don't know if you call being 567 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 1: sentenced for child sex abuses attention. 568 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 2: That's my friends at NBC. So let me understand something. 569 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 2: Dave Mack. 570 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: In the case of deb La Fave, the attorney said 571 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: to the court, she's too pretty for jail, and she 572 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: got house arrest. 573 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 3: YEP, that's basically what hitry. Attorney was Fitzgibbons. That was 574 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 3: his argument to the court, she's just too pretty. It'll 575 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 3: just be horrible for her, it won't be fair. And 576 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 3: that was gr she's too pretty for prison. We all 577 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 3: talked about it forever because that's the most ridiculous argument 578 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 3: of all time. 579 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 2: But it worked. 580 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: Mark Tate, high profile lawyer joining us out of the 581 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: Savannah juristic. And have you ever actually used a similar 582 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 1: argument too delicate, too fragile, too pretty to whatever for prison? 583 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 9: Nothing like that. Remember Nancy that a lot of my 584 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 9: civil cases focus on priests, boy scout sex abuse cases. 585 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 9: I've even represented the parents of children who got molested 586 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 9: on airplanes. And so while I do criminal defense work, 587 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 9: I don't really see a whole lot of sympathy for 588 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 9: perpetrators like this particular lady we're talking about, because a 589 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 9: predator is a predator, and when we turn them loose, 590 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 9: as will happen if we don't take out that predilection 591 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 9: that they have to hurt people in the future, it's 592 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 9: going to continue. I've seen it with priests, I've seen 593 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 9: it with boy scouts, I've seen it with all different 594 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 9: sorts of professions, including psychiatrists and medical doctors. If they're 595 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 9: not taken out and shown how and not be permitted 596 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 9: in these kinds of situations, they're a problem forever. But 597 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 9: I'll promise you that what we're going to find with 598 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 9: every single one of these people if we dig deeply 599 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 9: into it, and I think doctor Delatory or would agree, 600 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 9: as they always are going to find why it's someone 601 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 9: else's fault. But I think that you know, we're going 602 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 9: to see that common thread through all of these predators, 603 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 9: and you know, the lifetime monitoring that happens, that maybe 604 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 9: what's necessary for the teacher Karan. I am just blown 605 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 9: away by the fact that teachers are able to get 606 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 9: this close to students, and in this particular instance, I 607 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 9: find it interesting that she managed to get through the 608 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 9: foster care system as well. 609 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 13: As Karen's son gets older, the younger siblings grow even 610 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 13: more suspicious that their brother is the toddler's father. Over text, 611 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 13: the boy's sister confronts him about his relationship with Karen 612 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 13: and point blank asks her brother if the baby is his. 613 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 13: Her brother admits that yes, he is the child's father, 614 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 13: but he convinces his sister not to tell anyone about it, 615 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 13: fearing both him and Karen would get in trouble. 616 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 5: Early in this full year, parents met with police reporting 617 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 5: their child had been sexually assaulted by mccommon. The now 618 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 5: sixteen year old student said he was twelve years old 619 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 5: at the time, and in seventh The assault happened in 620 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 5: the Mcommon home. He says, sometime in the night, the 621 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 5: teacher woke him and sexually assaulted him. Multiple juveniles have 622 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 5: now come forward claiming mccommon played video games with them online, 623 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 5: befriending them. The contact progressed to communication through social media apps, 624 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,840 Speaker 5: where the teacher reportedly sent inappropriate photos and asked for sex. 625 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 5: According to Believe. 626 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: Okay, we're talking about Alissa mccommon, another teacher that rapes 627 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:26,800 Speaker 1: the student. 628 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,320 Speaker 2: Now catch this after she has the baby. 629 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: This is what she says to the then twelve year 630 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 1: old boy. Listen, okay, joining me. Ron Bateman, former homicide 631 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,720 Speaker 1: undercover cop. You can find me, Ron Bateman and books. Ron, 632 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 1: do you hear the teacher time to put the twelve 633 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: year old boy on a guilt trip. What if she 634 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: wanted to do go get a construction job to support 635 00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 1: their baby. 636 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 7: Exactly like the gentleman said earlier, and he didn't choose 637 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 7: this word. But you know, and you can tell me 638 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,760 Speaker 7: as a prosecutor, how many narcissists actually plead guilty take responsibility. 639 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 7: And this last victim, I mean, this last suspect, you're 640 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 7: talking about, same thing, trying to shift the blame on 641 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 7: the victim. It's unbelievable. 642 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 2: I mean, think about it, Ron Bateman. 643 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 1: She statutory rapes. What is a twelve year old boy repeatedly, 644 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,399 Speaker 1: over and over, gets pregnant, has the baby, and then 645 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 1: calls to say, I'll raise the baby and I'll love 646 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:32,400 Speaker 1: the baby and I'll. 647 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,879 Speaker 2: Do it by myself. What does she want the twelve 648 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 2: year old boy to do exactly? 649 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:41,359 Speaker 7: And if this really gets my goat here, no one's 650 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,440 Speaker 7: talking about the eight hundred pound elephant in the room. 651 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,760 Speaker 7: And that's the parents who literally abandoned their responsibility as parents. 652 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 7: In my opinion, Like it's like a car, like I'm 653 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 7: done with this car and here you can have it. 654 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,360 Speaker 7: And that's what they did with Karen. Here you go, Karen, 655 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 7: as Karen, you raised my children. We're done with them 656 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 7: for now. You know, we need a break. And as 657 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 7: the parents you know, we don't get breaks. You know, 658 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 7: you got to raise these kids forever, you know, at 659 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,840 Speaker 7: least until they're adults. And that's not what happened. And 660 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 7: I got a chief super from the Middletown Township Police. 661 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 7: He put out a quote, and I think there should 662 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 7: be a comma and another continuation of this quote. His 663 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 7: quote was, I want to personally assure the parents of Middletown, 664 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,280 Speaker 7: of middle Township that we are taught taking every step 665 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 7: possible to ensure the safety of our children. Then it 666 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 7: should be comma and parents you should do the same, 667 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 7: which in this case, to me, was just just a 668 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,359 Speaker 7: total abandonment of a parental responsibility. 669 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 1: You know, I've been wondering how these children end up 670 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:46,319 Speaker 1: living full time with the teacher. It started with her babysitting, 671 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 1: then it ended up this day, a few nice a 672 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 1: week over there, and then ultimately moving in. And I'm 673 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 1: wondering about all the other teachers that we have shown. 674 00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,279 Speaker 1: How was it that the children, the boy children could 675 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 1: spend so much alone time with the teacher and the 676 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:06,240 Speaker 1: parents never. 677 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:07,879 Speaker 2: Know anything about it. 678 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:13,320 Speaker 1: To doctor John delatori a renowned psychologists joining us. Doctor Delatory, 679 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:19,239 Speaker 1: I'm just curious if you could explain what grooming is. 680 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 1: So parents that don't know, innocent parents that don't know, 681 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,359 Speaker 1: can't recognize grooming when they see it. 682 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 2: What is it? 683 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: For instance, and my son plays video games, he plays 684 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 1: with a group of his friends, and I have a rule, 685 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: and that is you cannot play online with anybody you 686 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: don't know in real life, that you haven't met, that 687 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:42,799 Speaker 1: you don't know. 688 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:44,680 Speaker 2: But if I see a. 689 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: Teacher sliding into that Fortnite game, oh yeah, oh, Hill's 690 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:48,720 Speaker 1: going to break loose. 691 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 7: Yeah. 692 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,279 Speaker 4: So grooming is the process by which someone breaks down 693 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:57,879 Speaker 4: these psychological barriers that would prevent a victimizer from victimizing 694 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,440 Speaker 4: that individual. They do this different kinds of ways, you know, 695 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 4: typically flattery, making statements about how smart the person is 696 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 4: or how attractive the person is. Even when they know 697 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 4: that that is a child, they will still make statements 698 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,319 Speaker 4: like this. They will still adulter right, they will still 699 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,839 Speaker 4: make the child victim somewhat of an adult. They will 700 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,920 Speaker 4: kind of in their mind raise the age because then 701 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 4: that puts a spotlight on the child, and children want 702 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 4: to feel appreciated, they want to have a connection, they 703 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 4: want to have that spotlight. So offenders use that for 704 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:35,920 Speaker 4: nefarious purposes, and they'll do it with everybody, especially with 705 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 4: the parents. They have to assuage the fears of the 706 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 4: parents by making it so that you know, they that 707 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,600 Speaker 4: they're there as a comfort that the victimizer is there 708 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,239 Speaker 4: is a comfort, breaking down those psychological barriers so that 709 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:53,280 Speaker 4: the parent doesn't think that anything bad would be happening. 710 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 4: And that's the trick, that's the scam that offenders are doing, 711 00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,760 Speaker 4: making people believe that nothing is happening. 712 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,600 Speaker 1: You know or think you know anything about this case. 713 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,840 Speaker 1: There is a detainment hearing about to go down. Please 714 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,520 Speaker 1: contact the Special Victims Unit six zero nine four sixty 715 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 1: five one one three five repeat six zero nine four 716 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:20,800 Speaker 1: sixty five one one three five are their other child victims. 717 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 1: We remember now an American Hero Officer Michael Maxheimer, Shannon 718 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,320 Speaker 1: Hill's p D Arkansas, killed in the line of duty. 719 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:35,719 Speaker 1: Served Shannon Hill's PD three years, leaving behind his daughters Brooklyn, 720 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:45,399 Speaker 1: Dorothy and Jelinda, and life partner Claudia. American hero Michael Maxheimer. 721 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,240 Speaker 1: Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend.