1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: We actually do more than just tattoos from exploitation in trafficking. 2 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: We cover and remove gang tattoos from former gang members. 3 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 2: Awesome. 4 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: We also cover up self harm scars. We all show 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: people that have been using IVY drugs that are left 6 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 1: with scarring and bruising from IVY drug use. 7 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 2: We help cover those of us regardless of the trauma 8 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 2: of the depths of desperation. These people in you are 9 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 2: trying to cover up the things that they have to 10 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 2: look at on themselves so they can change the ugliest 11 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,919 Speaker 2: time of their life into something pretty, so that they 12 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 2: can get past the daily reminder on their own bodies 13 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 2: of their own trauma. Yes, it is phenomenal. Just welcome 14 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 2: to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm 15 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:53,480 Speaker 2: a normal guy. I'm a husband, a father, an entrepreneur, 16 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 2: and I've been a football coach Inner City, Memphis And 17 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 2: the last part unintentionally led to an oscar for the 18 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 2: film about our team. It's called Undefeated. I believe our 19 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 2: country's problems will never be solved by a bunch of 20 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 2: fancy people and nice suits using big words that nobody 21 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 2: understands on CNN and Fox, but rather an army of 22 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 2: normal folks us just you and me deciding Hey, I 23 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 2: can help. That's what Jessica Lamb, the voice we just heard, 24 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 2: has done. Jessica is a survivor of child molestation and 25 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 2: human trafficking, and she's transformed all of that pain into purpose. 26 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 2: Her nonprofit, Atlanta Redemption Ink and their network of eighty 27 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 2: tattoo shops across the country have helped six hundred and 28 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 2: seventy three people get tattoos removed and covered up that 29 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 2: were from get this, their sex traffickers, gangs, they were 30 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 2: in during times of addiction or even self harm. This 31 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 2: and they're beyond the services are changing lives. I cannot 32 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 2: wait for you to meet Jessica right after these brief 33 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 2: messages from ours and our sponsors, Jessica Lamb, Welcome to Memphis. 34 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: Hey, thanks for having me. 35 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 2: I can't wait to talk about the work you do. 36 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 2: But there's a lot to unpack to for our listeners 37 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 2: to understand the work that you do. But before we 38 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 2: even get into it, fair warning, this one's gonna maybe 39 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 2: make you cry. This one's going to probably have you 40 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:55,119 Speaker 2: question all kinds of things about the reality of our society. 41 00:02:55,960 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 2: And you know, buckle up and brace because as far 42 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 2: and deep as Jessica goes with me today, I don't 43 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 2: want to pull any punches on this because as you 44 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 2: today sit in your car listening or jogging around the 45 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 2: track with your headphones in, or on an airplane or 46 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 2: wherever you're listening to me now, it is likely that 47 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 2: you are in a safe environment and have at least 48 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 2: enough income and enough you're blessed with enough that you 49 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 2: can afford whatever device you're listening to us on. And 50 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 2: we are not often reminded about the situations that exist 51 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 2: ten fifteen, twelve miles from us, where people are living 52 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 2: in not only abject poverty, but circumstances that we don't 53 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 2: really even want to imagine. And Jessica serves people from 54 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 2: those very realities and was once herself part of that, 55 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 2: and we're going to unpack it all. So buckle up 56 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 2: and hopefully you'll learn something from Jessica's story and her 57 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 2: heart and what she does. Now, so let's start off. 58 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 2: Tell me how you grew up. 59 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: So I'm one of four kids, and I grew up 60 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: in a two parent home. My dad served in ministry. 61 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: He is also I grew up messianic Jewish. So my 62 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 1: father is Jewish in my mother. 63 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 2: Messianic Jewish is not what many people get because Messianic 64 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 2: Jewish is like kind of it's jew Ish and christian 65 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 2: Ish and jumbled up and combined into a faith. Right. Yeah, 66 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 2: so I don't know what I'm talking about, but unpack 67 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 2: that for a minute for just give us the elevator 68 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 2: pitch on Messianic Judaism. 69 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: Well, I grew up in a Pentecostal church or Assembly 70 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: a God church, but my father grew up Jewish, and 71 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: so I had an interfaith type of home environment. So 72 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: we celebrated Christmas and Hanukkah Passover Rashashana. So we celebrated 73 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 1: both holidays in one home. But I grew up in 74 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: an evangelical or Pentecostal church. 75 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 2: Got it interesting? Okay? So are you one of four? 76 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 1: One of four young? 77 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 2: Where do you fall in backing order? There? 78 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: So I have an older brother, and then I'm the second, 79 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: and then I have a younger sister and then a 80 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: little brother. 81 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 2: Got it all right? And so you grow up in 82 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,919 Speaker 2: this home of four and connected mom and dad and 83 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 2: church going. What's dad do for a living? 84 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: Well, my dad's in sales, but he was also a pastor, 85 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: so he so. 86 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 2: He wasn't a lay person, he was actually clergy. 87 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 1: Both of them worked in both my parents worked in 88 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: ministry and also did missionary work. We did a lot 89 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: of stuff on the streets of Atlanta throughout my whole life, 90 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 1: even at a young age, I grew up doing outreach. 91 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: My parents instilled that in us when I was very small. 92 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: I actually was sharing the story earlier with somebody on 93 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: my way to the airport that when I was seven 94 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 1: years old, my parents gave me a brand new bike 95 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 1: for Christmas and it was the bike that I'd always wanted, 96 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 1: but there was nothing wrong with my bike that I 97 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: had before, and so I knew that we were going 98 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: to be going downtown and doing outreach that week, and 99 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: I was like, Dad, I want to give my bike, 100 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: my brand new bike to one of these kids. And 101 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: he was like, are you sure, And I was like absolutely. 102 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: So I ended up giving my brand new bike that 103 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,919 Speaker 1: I had gotten for Christmas to a kid on the streets, 104 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: and my parents went back and got me another, you know, 105 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: brand new. And I know that sounds a little visu 106 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: but I just I just thought it, like it's something 107 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: that its always stuck with me. And even when I 108 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: was on the streets, I've always had a heart to 109 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: help people, Like even when I was in my own mess, 110 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 1: I always tried to find ways to help somebody. And 111 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: so it's just been instilled in me at a young age. 112 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: And my parents instilled that in me. 113 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, if they were missionaries and working on 114 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 2: the streets, it's just becomes part of your nature and 115 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 2: who you are. Yeah, and you know, spoiler alert, you 116 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,239 Speaker 2: ended up on the streets. But right now we're seven 117 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 2: years old, living in this organic family that seems like 118 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 2: it's perfect from the outside. 119 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, but it wasn't. I experienced some I mean, I'm 120 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: just going to jump right in. So at fourteen, we 121 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: were always opening our homes up to people in need. 122 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: So if there was like a family that was in crisis, 123 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: or a family that was homeless or in need of 124 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: some help, my parents had a big enough house to 125 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: be able to you know, to be able to take 126 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: them in, and we would my dad would help them 127 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: as much as possible. And there was one man that 128 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: they brought in when I was a teenager and my 129 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 1: older brother had gone off to Bible College, and the 130 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: guy began sexually abusing me. And he would sneak in 131 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: in my room at night and sexually abuse me. I 132 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: was fourteen and he was probably in his late twenties, 133 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: but he was going through a divorce from domestic violence, 134 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: and so he would come in my room. At first, 135 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: it started out with I can go buy you a 136 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: pack of cigarettes, you know, like it was almost it 137 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 1: was grooming, like, I'll buy you a pack of cigarettes, 138 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: you know, I'll help you do this, I'll help you 139 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: do that. I'll give you a ride, you know. And 140 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: it was just different things that he would do to 141 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,680 Speaker 1: get me to be quiet about what he was doing 142 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: at night. And so I started sneaking out at my house. 143 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: I started self harming. 144 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 2: Well when you were all right, First of all, let 145 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 2: me just say this. I think there's a special place 146 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 2: in hell for adults who abuse children. Just want to 147 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 2: say that. It's I just don't. I think it's a 148 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 2: certain level of evil and probably mental sickness as well. 149 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 2: So you're fourteen and you're used to your family reaching 150 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 2: out to people in need, right. 151 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: So we actually trusted this man. He actually worked, he 152 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 1: worked in our church. 153 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 2: He worked in the church. 154 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: He worked in our church, and he was a family 155 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: friend and they were trying to help him out. 156 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 2: And so initially, your fourteen year old kid, and your 157 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 2: parents have always done this work and this is just 158 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 2: another person in need and you're trusting. 159 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like, oh, this is a family friend, 160 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: and it was. He just felt like he could pray 161 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: on me, and he did, and it started just I 162 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,839 Speaker 1: started spiraling. And when I began spiraling, like my grade 163 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 1: started going down. I ended up getting kicked out of 164 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: school for stealing exact oblates from the heart room so 165 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: I could self harm. So I got had got sent 166 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,559 Speaker 1: to alternative school. And so when I I went to 167 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: alternative school, actually found kids that were like me. But 168 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,439 Speaker 1: the person that was driving me to my alternative school 169 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 1: when I wasn't on the bus to go there was 170 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: the man that was also sexually abusing me. 171 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 2: So, you know, and a lot of I've heard far 172 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 2: too many sexual abuse stories, but no two or just alike. 173 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 2: And you know, you're fourteen, You've been raised by a 174 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 2: loving mother and father, you know right from wrong, and 175 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 2: this guy starts grooming you. But people got to remember 176 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 2: at fourteen, I remember what I was like at fourteen. 177 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 2: My parents were goobs. They were nerves, they were embarrassing. 178 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 2: I was trying to break out and become my own person. 179 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 2: And so it's really this, it's really this really risky 180 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 2: time for a teen really fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, you're trying 181 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 2: to figure out who you are, but you have no 182 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 2: wisdom to compensate for lots of dangers that come your way. 183 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 2: And so I'm envisioning you at fourteen, this kid in 184 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 2: this house, and you know, I guess my question is 185 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 2: over what period of time from when he showed up 186 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:30,079 Speaker 2: until the abuse started, and then what period of time 187 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 2: did it start having an effect on your behavior? You 188 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 2: see what I'm saying. I'm trying to unpack the timing 189 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 2: of that. 190 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: Well, I want to go back a little bit because 191 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: like I was pretty good in school, even though I 192 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: was I was in special ed classes because I didn't 193 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: really get along really well with the kids in my classes, 194 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,199 Speaker 1: and I didn't want to really do the school work. 195 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: I kind of wanted to focus on art and drawling 196 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 1: all the time, and they wanted me to focus on 197 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: the academics. And I went to a very one of 198 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: the best high school or one of the best schools 199 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 1: in Georgia. I was in a great school district, and 200 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: I just didn't really fit in with the type of 201 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: kids that were there. But where I found my place 202 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: was in music. And so I used to compete through 203 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,319 Speaker 1: like the Find the Georgia Fine Arts festivals, and I 204 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 1: would sing and I would compete in the yeah vocally yeah, 205 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: And I loved it. I wanted to be a singer. 206 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: I wanted to work for Pixar Animation. Like these were 207 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: my These were like my dreams. And I remember right 208 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 1: before I went to this this competition, I ended up 209 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: losing my place because I got so nervous because of 210 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: what was going on at home, and I was pacing 211 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: the stage, and so I lost points because I was 212 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: like dealing with a lot of anxiety and I was 213 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: like harboring this secret and so I was pacing the 214 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: stage during the competition, and so the judges knocked off 215 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 1: points for that. And I ended up losing out on 216 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: nationals because the Gentleman was actually there in the audience 217 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: and I was very very nervous because he was there, 218 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: and I ended up losing out on my opportunity to 219 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: compete nationally. But singing was like my thing. I loved it, 220 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: and so yeah, that one. That one was painful, But. 221 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 2: How long did you keep it a secret? 222 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: I kept it a secret for a few months, and 223 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: then I got in school suspension for smoking cigarettes because 224 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: the guy was giving me cigarettes and razors to self 225 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: harm and just to keep me to be quiet. And 226 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: so I got caught with cigarettes and went in school suspension. 227 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: Passed a note to a kid in the class, and 228 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: I was like, Hey, this is what's going on at home. 229 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:44,719 Speaker 2: You told a kid in the class. You didn't tell 230 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 2: your parents first? 231 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I told a kid in I don't know. I 232 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: just I passed a note. Especially how old I am, 233 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: I passed a note to I passed a note to him, 234 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: and I was like, this is what's going on home? 235 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: And the teacher saw me. An iss teacher saw me 236 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: pass that note and picked it up, read it and said, 237 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: take this home to your parents. I want them to 238 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: know what's going on. Have them sign it, and bring 239 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: it back tomorrow. So I tried to forge my mom's signature. 240 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 2: Of course, that's what we all did. 241 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: Tried to forge my mom's signature. It was very obvious, 242 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: because of course your parents signed stuff at school all 243 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: the time. It clearly wasn't her signature, and so they. 244 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 2: Well, why were you so reluctant to tell your parents? 245 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 1: Because it was a family friend and the guy was 246 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: telling me. He was like, if you say anything, you're 247 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: never going to sing again. Because I used to sing 248 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: in church all the time. You're never going to sing again. 249 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: No one's going to believe you. Your dad's one of 250 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: my friends. You're already getting in trouble at school, you know, 251 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: like I was. I was considered like the bad kid 252 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: in my family, Like I started getting this reputation of 253 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: being the bad girl. 254 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 2: So he was manipulating everything. 255 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was coercion, it was grooming, manipulation, all of 256 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: those things, trying to get me to do what he wanted. 257 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 2: You've said self harm a couple of times. Did the 258 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 2: self harm start after all this? 259 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: Yes? 260 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 2: Explain self harm? And why because most people listening to 261 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 2: us have heard of people And when you say self 262 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 2: harm and you've said resumes, I assume you were cutting yourself. Yes, 263 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 2: why does someone start? I would this is a complete 264 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 2: gas But are you disgusted with yourself and so you're 265 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 2: harming yourself or. 266 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: I remember it just feeling like a release. I actually 267 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: had watched a TV show one day and I saw 268 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: they highlighted it on this TV show and they were 269 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: trying to bring awareness to it. I watched this girl 270 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: and she did it, and I was like, hey, that'll 271 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: make me feel better. And so I remember trying it, 272 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: and then it just became like something that it felt 273 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: like it was a way for me to just to 274 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: get out whatever I was feeling inside. I know that 275 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: doesn't it might not make sense, but to me at 276 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: the time, it made sense, and it was something that 277 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: made me. It was like smoking a cigarette or or 278 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: like just getting some type of relief. 279 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 2: And this guy was providing you not only with cigarettes, 280 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 2: it's not only grooming and manipulate you, but he was 281 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 2: actually providing you with razor blades to hurt yourself. 282 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: Yes, because when my parents started noticing I had some cuts, 283 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: things started like started hiding things that, you know, when 284 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: I could hurt myself with. And so the guy would 285 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: I used to have this little zeber print makeup bag 286 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: that would sit on my dresser and he'd be like, 287 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: it's in the zebra bag and so I'd open it 288 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: up and there would be cigarettes and razor blades. 289 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 2: And was he sneak in your room at night, and 290 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 2: he was. 291 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, he would sneak in my room at night. He 292 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: slept in the room across from me, which was my 293 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: brother's room. So when he was away at college, he 294 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: was renting that room from my parents, and so he 295 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: would sneak in and sexually abuse me. So I started 296 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: sneaking out my window because I knew when he was 297 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 1: coming in, so then I would be getting caught sneaking out. 298 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 2: So you were getting away from him. But now you're 299 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 2: getting in trouble for being this bad kid, yep. So like, 300 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 2: so you've got no way to win. 301 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was. Basically I was like jale I was. 302 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: I was just stuck. I was like, I am. I 303 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 1: was scared to say something to my parents and and. 304 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 2: You were probably at fourteen manipulated enough to actually believe 305 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 2: what you're saying was true. Yeah. 306 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I don't want to. 307 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 2: You were already the You're already kind of the black 308 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 2: sheep because you're artsy and all that, right, No, for real, 309 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 2: And you said, well, I was kind of considered the 310 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 2: bad kid, So you're already up against that. Now you're 311 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 2: getting abused, Now you're getting manipulated. A fourteen year old 312 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 2: kid getting manipulated by a thirty year old guy. That's 313 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 2: you know, you can certainly see that. And then you 314 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 2: have nowhere. You feel like, you feel like you have 315 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 2: nowhere to go, so you get out of your room 316 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,679 Speaker 2: to get away from this abuse. And by getting out 317 00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 2: of the room to get away from the abuse, now 318 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 2: you run away from home, sneak out at night, which 319 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 2: makes you even a worse kid. 320 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, And so then I started hanging out with kids 321 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,199 Speaker 1: that were smoking pot and so like, I was like, 322 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 1: oh now I got self harm and I got smoke pot, 323 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: smoked cigarettes, and I was and so like I was 324 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: just building this bad girl persona. Like I just began 325 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 1: like I stopped, you know, doing good in school. I 326 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: stopped singing, my art declined. I started writing really really 327 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:29,959 Speaker 1: dark poetry I love to write. And my parents were like, 328 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: what is wrong with our kid? You know, like and 329 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,679 Speaker 1: but when I brought that note home, when they actually 330 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: called my parents and they said they told them like, hey, 331 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 1: this is what Jessa is saying. And my dad set 332 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: me down in our living room, and I remember I 333 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: was sitting on the fireplace, hearth on the seat at 334 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,399 Speaker 1: the fireplace, and he looked at this man, and he goes, 335 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,199 Speaker 1: are you touching my daughter? And he goes, no, you 336 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: know she's lying, you know she's doing all this stuff. 337 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: And so he completely like was like absolutely not. And 338 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: my dad looked at me and he's like, why would 339 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: you Why would you say that? And then something clicked 340 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: in my brain. I was like, wait, I don't want 341 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 1: this guy to be homeless, like like, that's the first 342 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 1: thing that pops in my brain is not me, and 343 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,199 Speaker 1: advocating for myself not dad, helped me. It was I 344 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: don't want this guy to be homeless. So I looked 345 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:23,400 Speaker 1: at my dad and out of my mouth, I said, 346 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,640 Speaker 1: I made it all up. I'm sorry, it's not true. 347 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: It's not true, Dad, I'm sorry. I made it all up. 348 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: And so, of course that continued to build up the 349 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 1: bad reputation of me being the bad kid. 350 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 2: Did it embolden this man to continue with the behavior? 351 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: Yes, he continued the behavior, and he was like, don't 352 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 1: try to pull that again. I'll take away your cigarettes. 353 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 1: You know, like he just he was just constantly doing this. 354 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: He was doing this for about a year. 355 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 2: You lived in that house with that going on for 356 00:19:55,600 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 2: one year NonStop. Yeah. Meanwhile, you're perpetually falling down a 357 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 2: spiral of just dark, dark dark. I'm so sorry that 358 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 2: the uh, the depth of that, the reality is although 359 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:27,719 Speaker 2: at that time I know you felt like you were 360 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,360 Speaker 2: all alone in the world. The truth is which we'll 361 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 2: get to. Unfortunately, this is not that uncommon a story 362 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 2: and our society is it. I'm sorry, it's okay. I'm 363 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 2: so sorry that you're crying. I just it's very brave 364 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 2: of you to share this. People need to hear it, 365 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,120 Speaker 2: people need to understand that there's people like this all 366 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 2: over the all over the country, kids dealing with this. 367 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 1: It's fine, and I promise is good, dude. I'm good. 368 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, you sure. 369 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. I can't share my story without crying. It's impossible. 370 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 2: I can't. I can't. I get it. It's hard for 371 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 2: me to hear without crying. And now a few messages 372 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 2: from our general sponsors. But first, I hope you'll subscribe 373 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,199 Speaker 2: to the podcast so that you can get the newest 374 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 2: episodes in your library every week. And also please consider 375 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 2: signing up to join the Army at Normalfolks dot us 376 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 2: because together we can improve this country. And you'll also 377 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 2: receive weekly email updates about the Army that you can 378 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 2: even read. Guys, We'll be right back. 379 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: But yeah, I live like that for about a year. 380 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 2: And so now you're sixteen. Yep. 381 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 1: So no, I'm sixteen. And I ended up dropping out 382 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: of high school. And when I dropped out of high school, 383 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:06,719 Speaker 1: my parents were like, well, you don't have to get 384 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 1: your GED. And because I had just completely threw my 385 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: academics out the window, like I had like the education 386 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 1: of a sixth grader like I or a ninth grader 387 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 1: or whatever, I just you know, I just didn't I 388 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:27,360 Speaker 1: couldn't even pass the GED. And I took it multiple times. 389 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: I tried to get a job busting tables as a waitress, 390 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: and like just everything was just dead end. And they 391 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 1: were like, if you've got to get a job, well, 392 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: I can't get a job with out of high school diploma. 393 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: I can't pass the GED. So I'm like, dang, dude, 394 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: like I'm stuck. And I ended up getting in a 395 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 1: really bad fight with my dad and he found cigarettes 396 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 1: in my room and money had gone missing in the 397 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: house and he thought that I had taken it, and 398 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 1: and like I swear to this damn thirty eight years old, 399 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: I never took that money. And he was like, you 400 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 1: gotta get out. He's like, I'm tired of all this craziness. 401 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 1: I'm tired of this, this and this. Get out. And 402 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: so I was like fine, and so I left and 403 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 1: I actually moved in with my memal, who is still 404 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: alive today. 405 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 2: Grandmother. 406 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 1: Yes, my Memal is my grandma. She's my freaking hero. 407 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: But I'll get to that today too. But I moved 408 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 1: in with my Memal for a few months, and my 409 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: dad was like, I think you might be a little 410 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 1: too much for your grandma to live in her house, 411 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: so why don't you come back. We'll try this again. 412 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: So at sixteen, I came back, and then I just 413 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: kept getting in fights. I tried to get that ged again. 414 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: I couldn't get any kind of stable job, and I 415 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 1: started flipping through these papers called The Creative Loafing in Atlanta. 416 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 1: It's an art magazine and I'm into art and music, 417 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: so I'm looking for jobs and there was a want 418 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 1: ad in there and it said, uh, there was a 419 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: customer service representative job open with free room and board. 420 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 1: And I was like, I'm going to show the world 421 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: that I can get a job. I'll have my own 422 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: place before my high school class, even graduates, and so 423 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: I called this phone number and a lady answers and 424 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: I tell her. I was like, man, I'm not getting 425 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 1: I'm not getting along with my folks here. I was like, 426 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 1: I know, I'm young. I was like, but you know, 427 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: I'm out of school. I'm trying to get my high 428 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: school diploma. And I was like, I just need a job, 429 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 1: and she's like, oh, we always have openings, and I 430 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: was like cool. I was like, I can work a telephone, 431 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,439 Speaker 1: you know, I can do that and I'll have my 432 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: own apartment. Like cool, this works. And I was like, well, 433 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: let me let me think about it. And so it 434 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: took me a couple of months, gotten another really bad 435 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: fight with my dad. He finally had had enough of 436 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: me and he was like get out. He's like I'm done. 437 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: So I was like fine, and I left. I stayed 438 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,639 Speaker 1: with a friend from my church one night, and I 439 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: thought I hadn't made because like, he worked at this 440 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: studio in Atlanta music studio and I hung out with 441 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: him and the next day he's like he throws twenty 442 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:17,919 Speaker 1: dollars on the coffee table and he's like, here's some 443 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: gas money. You can't live here, and I was like, what, 444 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 1: you know, where am I going to go? Because I 445 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 1: didn't want to be a burden on my grandmother, I 446 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: couldn't go home. 447 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 2: So this dude still at home, the abuser. 448 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was still in the house. 449 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:35,400 Speaker 2: Oh forgot's sake. 450 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: He ended up leaving, but he was still in the 451 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 1: house when I was going through this. So I I 452 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: called the ad. I called that in the paper and 453 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,920 Speaker 1: I was like, hey, I got twenty dollars to my name. 454 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: And I remember driving to the Chick fil A off 455 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,159 Speaker 1: of Druid Hills in Atlanta and I got myself a 456 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,640 Speaker 1: chicken biscuit, put the rest of it in my gas tank, 457 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 1: bought a packast cigarettes. I had someone go in and 458 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,160 Speaker 1: buy me a pack of cigarettes, and then I drove 459 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 1: out to Griffin, Georgia, where I met this man at 460 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: a gas station and he was like he's standing out 461 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 1: there and I was like, where's your car. It's in 462 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 1: the shop, and He's like, the house is just right 463 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 1: down the road. And I was like, okay, Like I 464 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 1: am night. Can I cuss on here? I'm naives all right, 465 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 1: I'm a teenager, you know, And I'm like, I don't 466 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 1: know what's going on, and so I'm. 467 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 2: Like, and you're traumaized. 468 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I got trauma and I don't know where 469 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,879 Speaker 1: to go, and I just felt completely helpless. So I 470 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: go to this house and I walk in and it's 471 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: pretty empty except for there was two other young ladies 472 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: in the house and I hear the door shut behind me, 473 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,439 Speaker 1: and I'm like, this doesn't feel right. I was like, 474 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: something's not right here, and I remember just feeling completely cold. 475 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,679 Speaker 1: And I turned around and he looked at me, and 476 00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 1: he was very direct with his intentions and. 477 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 2: Which were what. 478 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 1: He was like, you're gonna do this, this and this? 479 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:06,719 Speaker 2: What is this? This and this? 480 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,439 Speaker 1: You're basically sex work. He was like, you're going to 481 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 1: go on these calls with this girl and her name, 482 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: we'll just call her for radio sake, we'll call her Tiffany. 483 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: You're going to go on these calls with Tiffany, and 484 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: you're going to service and you're going to do this, 485 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:29,360 Speaker 1: this and this. Yeah. I just I don't want to, Okay, 486 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: I'm sure. Yeah, I'm like I don't think. 487 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,360 Speaker 2: So. And I was like, you're going to go on 488 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:37,880 Speaker 2: calls and you're going to see. 489 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,880 Speaker 1: John's Yeah, I'm going to see John's. 490 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 2: What you're asked to sexually. 491 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, and and the sexual abuse from the man that 492 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: was living in our house. There was never intercourse. It 493 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: was just you know, touching, a molestation and things like that. 494 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: And so when I met my trafficer, I was a virgin. 495 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:59,400 Speaker 1: So my first call, I remember walking down the hall 496 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: the hotel and I remember going in there with Tiffany 497 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't know what to do, 498 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: and I was I was shaking. I was like, I 499 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: don't what's on the other side of that door, you know. 500 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,120 Speaker 1: I like, I had no idea. And she's like, if 501 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: you tell Cy, which was what my trafficker called himself, 502 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: you tell him that I did this, we're both gonna 503 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:25,880 Speaker 1: be in a lot of trouble. And so she took 504 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,119 Speaker 1: my first call for me. She's like, I will not 505 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 1: do this again. You have to do this or you 506 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 1: know this and this will happen. And so I was 507 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: like terrified. And so she took my call for me 508 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: made three hundred bucks within like an hour, and I 509 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: was like, I actually thought that I got to keep 510 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: that money, Like I actually thought that money would in 511 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: my pockets. She handed me the money and I was 512 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: supposed to hand it over to Cy and I actually 513 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: call him Ka on the internet. But I handed or 514 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: I had the money in my pocket and he's like, 515 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: where's the money and I was like, I have it. 516 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: I was like I did it, you know, and I 517 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 1: was like, it's my job. It was my call. And 518 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 1: he's like, no, honey, that's not how this works. And 519 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: so I ended up having to I took the money 520 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: out of my pocket and I tried to give him 521 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 1: half of it and he's like, no, I get all 522 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: of that and he's like, I'll hold on to it 523 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 1: and I'll give you money at the end of the week. 524 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, okay. And so like it 525 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: was call after call after call until like, how old 526 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: are you at this point, I'm seventeen, Okay, So all 527 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: of this is ripe. Yeah, yeah, because I I didn't 528 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: want to be there. I didn't want to do any 529 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: of this, and so. 530 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 2: It was just you know, people would say, well, you're 531 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 2: seventeen years old, you know what you're doing. You want 532 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 2: to answer that, by the way, before you reach across 533 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 2: the table and slap the crap out of me. I'm 534 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 2: playing Devil's Advocate and teeing this up for you to 535 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 2: answer that, because some people will say, seventeen years old, 536 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 2: eighteen years old, trouble girl, You've had a car, you 537 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 2: could have got driven away, And they don't understand the 538 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 2: mental manipulation and the and the and the power that 539 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 2: these girls give into and the fear. Can you speak 540 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 2: to that? 541 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: So people ask me this question, They say this a 542 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: lot to me. They were like, well, sixteen is age 543 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,239 Speaker 1: consent or seventeen is the age of consent. And I 544 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: was like, I didn't consent to any of it. And 545 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: I did have a car and I could have left, 546 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: but I didn't have anywhere to go. And there was 547 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: so much mind God, this is such a bad word, 548 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: but there's so much mind furey and manipulation. And like 549 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 1: basically he was like, your family's not going to take 550 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: you back. That's why you're here. You know you can't. 551 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 2: So you went from one manipulation and grooming in your 552 00:30:55,440 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 2: home to another level of manipulation and grooming yeah by 553 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 2: a professional rat. 554 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. So he's like, you have nowhere to go. I 555 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: know where your parents work, I know where you live. 556 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 1: He's like, you're going to work for me, You're going 557 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: to do this and so like three months in, I mean, yeah, 558 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 1: I could have gotten in my car and left, but like, 559 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: where was I going to go? Like I didn't have 560 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: any friends to go to. I couldn't have stayed with 561 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: any of my friends I didn't have. I didn't want 562 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 1: to be a burden on my grandmother because that's always 563 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: what was sticking in my mind, is like she's older 564 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: and she was a widow, and I was like, I 565 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: don't want to keep having to go back to her 566 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: and put more on her. And I knew I couldn't 567 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: go home because I knew I was just going to 568 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 1: get kicked out again. So I was like, where am 569 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: I going to go? So I stayed not because I 570 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: wanted to, it's because I didn't have any options. 571 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. 572 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: They're about three months in. He was like, you know, 573 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: you're not giving me any trouble. So he's like, I 574 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 1: want you to show me that you're loyal to me. 575 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: He's like, I'm gonna take you to this tattoo shop 576 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: down the road and we're going to tattoo you with 577 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: the same thing that Tiffany had. So I go into 578 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: this tattoo shop and I was like, I'm not even 579 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: old enough to get a tattoo in say of Georgia, 580 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: you have to be eighteen to get to get a 581 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: tattoo in a professional tattoo shop. And he's like the 582 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: guy the artist had a fetish or a fantasy of 583 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 1: getting oral sex while tattooing someone. So Tiffany gives him 584 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: oral sex in exchange for my tattoo. And I was 585 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 1: tattooed on my wrist and on my backside. 586 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 2: One time, yes, at the same. 587 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: Time, at the same time. So I had this tattoo 588 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: on me, on my wrist and all my backside, and 589 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 1: I felt disgusting. 590 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 2: And I also branded. Yeah, I mean yeah, he became property. 591 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, people refer to it ave branding, tagging tattoos, but 592 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 1: usually sometimes when people hear branding, they think of burns, like. 593 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 2: No, But what I'm saying is we're not going to 594 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 2: discuss what the tattoos are but or were. But the 595 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 2: point is this was more and more depth of drawing 596 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 2: you into a place you could get out of. And 597 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 2: this tattoo was, when I say, branding, marking, whatever, it 598 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 2: was further connecting you to your to trafficker. Yeah, and 599 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 2: the trafficker is a pimp basically, right. 600 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was basically my my Well I don't I 601 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: didn't call him my pimp, but he was my trafficker. 602 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, by me. What's the difference in a traffic growing 603 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 2: up pimp? 604 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:12,439 Speaker 1: I don't see a difference neither. 605 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,400 Speaker 2: Okay, So tattoos. 606 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 1: I get tattooed, and I felt gross with this on 607 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: my body and immediately yeah, well, I mean of course 608 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 1: I felt immediately. I I'm in a situation that I 609 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,360 Speaker 1: don't want to be in. I'm with a group of 610 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,800 Speaker 1: people that I don't want to be around. I'm doing 611 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 1: things that I don't want to do. 612 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 2: Is the drug involved? 613 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 1: No, I did not use any drugs when I was 614 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I said from No. He was pretty particular 615 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: about us not using any type of drugs. Now, there 616 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,799 Speaker 1: were times that like we would have like uppers, not 617 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 1: like like illegal drug, but like something to yeah, like 618 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 1: no dose or whatever. And then we had things like 619 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,719 Speaker 1: then we were allowed to smoke pot and but that 620 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: was it, and then he was very particular about what 621 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: kind of clients that we saw. It was just it 622 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: was literally a nightmare. And I remember how. 623 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,359 Speaker 2: Many girls I know you, and there was Tiffany. 624 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: There was me, Tiffany and another girl that were in 625 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:19,320 Speaker 1: this house together. 626 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 2: Did he quote recruit them the same way that you 627 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 2: got recruited? 628 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 1: Tiffany was a bottom. A bottom, A bottom is his 629 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,840 Speaker 1: main girl, and so she's the one that recruited me, 630 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 1: and then I'm assuming the other girl was recruited by 631 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:36,839 Speaker 1: her as well. 632 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 2: So when you called up this ad, she's the one 633 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 2: that answered, thinking you're going to get a job. You 634 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 2: were talking to Tiffany, yes, and they're completely lying to you, 635 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 2: and then they show you show up and it's everybody's 636 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:51,919 Speaker 2: in on it, is what I'm saying. 637 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody was in on it. There was a bunch 638 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,359 Speaker 1: of people in this house, or all three of us 639 00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,080 Speaker 1: were in this house. And then the trafficker's nephew was 640 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 1: living upstairs in the apartment taking college classes, which was 641 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 1: really weird because he was not on any of it. 642 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,319 Speaker 1: He was just separate from everything, which I really don't 643 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,319 Speaker 1: talk about my story because it's irrelevant to my story, but. 644 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 2: It's still it was just a function. 645 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was very odd. 646 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 2: Yeah did you ever were you ever there when they 647 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 2: tried to recruit another girl. 648 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,359 Speaker 1: I never saw them trying to recruit another girl. I 649 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 1: was only with with with Cipher six months. The last 650 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 1: night that I was with him, I was on a 651 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 1: call and I was in a hotel room and it 652 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 1: was across the street from a strip club, and I 653 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,359 Speaker 1: was staying in this hotel and I remember looking out 654 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,319 Speaker 1: the window and thinking, I bet I would be so 655 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 1: much safer in there than I am in here in 656 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,720 Speaker 1: the strip club. Yeah. Which there's kind of a funny 657 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 1: story that ties into one of my best friends that 658 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 1: I now work with anti trafficking with because she was 659 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,880 Speaker 1: actually leaving that exact club at the same time that 660 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,480 Speaker 1: I was trying to get out of my tell room. 661 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:01,240 Speaker 2: Wow. 662 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: So but I remember that night. I looked at Si 663 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:07,360 Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't want to do this 664 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: anymore and I'm not going to And he was like, 665 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 1: come again, and I was like, I'm not doing this 666 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 1: anymore and I'm not going to. I was like, I 667 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,360 Speaker 1: want to go home. I was like, I'm seventeen. I 668 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: don't want to be here. I want to go home. 669 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 1: No one's going to take you back, no one's gonna 670 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 1: no one's ever gonna want to be with you. You're damaged goods. 671 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 1: No one's going to love you, No one's gonna want 672 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: to No one's gonna want to be with your ass, 673 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 1: you know, like all kinds of things like that, just 674 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:36,239 Speaker 1: completely stripping away every every bit of dignity, every bit 675 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 1: of my self esteem, the things that would come out 676 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,360 Speaker 1: of his mouth, like he thought it was always funny, 677 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,400 Speaker 1: and it wasn't. It was very damaging. 678 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,279 Speaker 2: And I just remember, the farther he breaks you down, 679 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,759 Speaker 2: and the less self esteem and dignity you have, the 680 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:56,360 Speaker 2: more you become this puppet, yeah, and the more dependent 681 00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,760 Speaker 2: upon him you are in a weird sense. 682 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,360 Speaker 1: And he was like, the guys that we know, the 683 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,360 Speaker 1: guys that are calling they like you because you're younger. 684 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 1: The guys that we call it, they like you because 685 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 1: you know, you're petite. They like you because of all 686 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: this other stuff. And I was like, He's like, you're 687 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,839 Speaker 1: making me good money. And I'm like, I'm like, I'm 688 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 1: making you good money, but why are we going to Applebee's? 689 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:18,279 Speaker 1: You know, Like, if I'm making you good money, why 690 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 1: are we you know, why why are you making me 691 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:22,840 Speaker 1: like do this that? You know, Like it's just it 692 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 1: made no sense. And I never saw a dime of 693 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: any of them. 694 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:27,560 Speaker 2: I was gonna did he ever pay you at the 695 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 2: end of the week. 696 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 1: No, I never got paid for one dollar. No, I 697 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 1: never got I never had any money. 698 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,320 Speaker 2: So you were working for a roof and some food. 699 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,440 Speaker 1: Yep, not even good food. No offense to Applebee's, but 700 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:40,479 Speaker 1: it wasn't even good food. 701 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 2: Like, I know this is not commonal but. 702 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: I know, I'm sure it's It's the way I'm dealing. 703 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 1: That's the way I deal with trauma sometimes is I'm 704 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 1: I crack a joke and I know it's not a 705 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:58,480 Speaker 1: funny matter, but I'm trying. I'm trying to get it 706 00:38:58,840 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 1: pushed through this. 707 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 2: I completely get it. So this night you say you're out, 708 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:06,280 Speaker 2: and he. 709 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, he got very angry with me. 710 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:10,880 Speaker 2: And did you ever feel physically threatened? 711 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,239 Speaker 1: He was never physically violent with us until the night 712 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:23,359 Speaker 1: I told him I wanted to leave. And the night 713 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 1: that I told say that I wanted to leave, I 714 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 1: was like, I want to get my things and leave. 715 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:30,520 Speaker 1: And I was like, I'm seventeen, I want to go home. 716 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:32,799 Speaker 1: And that's what he was telling me, that no one 717 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,000 Speaker 1: ever will love me and I was worthless, no good 718 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 1: and all this kind of stuff, and he was like, 719 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:42,319 Speaker 1: you know what, go in the house. And get your 720 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,400 Speaker 1: shit out. And I was like, WHOA, that was easy, 721 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:47,840 Speaker 1: you know, Like I was like whow. I felt like 722 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 1: this big relief. So I remember walking onto the steps 723 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,400 Speaker 1: to go get my things, and all I had was 724 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 1: like a book bag, a couple pieces of jewelry, and 725 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:03,759 Speaker 1: my keys to my car that he used, and it 726 00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,879 Speaker 1: was actually the car that my grandmother gave me. And 727 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,480 Speaker 1: I hear footsteps come behind me, and he came really fast, 728 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 1: and I remember turning around and he was coming after me, 729 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 1: and I remember I froze and I fell to the floor, 730 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,880 Speaker 1: and then he took me by my hair and dragged 731 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:25,040 Speaker 1: me up exactly twelve flights of step or twelve stairs. 732 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,280 Speaker 1: I remember because I counted them. So I would always 733 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,080 Speaker 1: say that I was I'm batite in my height, but 734 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,840 Speaker 1: he would saying I was overweight, and so he would 735 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:36,560 Speaker 1: make me walk up and down those steps every day 736 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,520 Speaker 1: for exercise because he said that he didn't want any 737 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:43,440 Speaker 1: fat girls working for him. So he grabbed me by 738 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:47,200 Speaker 1: my hair, and I remember trying to stay present, and 739 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 1: I counted each step up to twelve and then so 740 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,799 Speaker 1: I tried to take my life that night, and I 741 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:59,919 Speaker 1: what he tried to end my life, how he pulled 742 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,960 Speaker 1: a knife on me, pulled out a trash bag, said 743 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:08,080 Speaker 1: he was gonna cut my tongue so I wouldn't so 744 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:12,880 Speaker 1: I could never speak or say anything about him. But 745 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,680 Speaker 1: I remember him pulling open this big trash bag saying 746 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,680 Speaker 1: that he was gonna stuff my body in it. And 747 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:24,960 Speaker 1: I remember staring at the door to his bedroom that 748 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,400 Speaker 1: I was in with him, and I was screaming, and 749 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:28,919 Speaker 1: he was like, if you don't shut up, I'm gonna 750 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,719 Speaker 1: cut your tongue out. And I remember like this is 751 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,759 Speaker 1: gonna sound so stupid to some people, but to me, 752 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,360 Speaker 1: I will never forget it. I remember like picturing my 753 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:44,320 Speaker 1: dad coming in there in a superhero cape. You're getting 754 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:51,240 Speaker 1: me out of there, and nobody came and I nobody 755 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,440 Speaker 1: came and got me, and I just thought I fought 756 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:58,239 Speaker 1: like hell. And I started telling him. I was like, 757 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,600 Speaker 1: I'll do anything, don't kill me. 758 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:04,640 Speaker 2: And he. 759 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:10,640 Speaker 1: So he made me give him oral sex, and he 760 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:17,440 Speaker 1: was like, they're gonna learn not with me, and I 761 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:21,040 Speaker 1: was like, I promise, I'll behave I'll be good. I'm sorry, 762 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,920 Speaker 1: I love you, I I'll be loyal, I won't fight 763 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,799 Speaker 1: you anymore. Just don't kill me, and he was like, 764 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,520 Speaker 1: everything kind of calmed down after a couple hours, and uh, 765 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:33,920 Speaker 1: and he. 766 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:34,560 Speaker 2: Was like. 767 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,600 Speaker 1: I ended up falling asleep and he was sleeping. He 768 00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,800 Speaker 1: slept and he had his arm over me, and I remember, 769 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,360 Speaker 1: like I did. I couldn't sleep that well, but I 770 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,759 Speaker 1: was trying to go to sleep, and I remember the 771 00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,200 Speaker 1: next morning, I tried to move and I felt him 772 00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,480 Speaker 1: bear down on me, and he goes, where do you 773 00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,719 Speaker 1: think you're going? And I was like, I just need 774 00:42:57,719 --> 00:42:59,840 Speaker 1: to go to the bathroom, and he goes, if he 775 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:01,840 Speaker 1: think about leaving, I'm going to put two in the 776 00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:05,239 Speaker 1: back of your head. And I was like, I'm not 777 00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:09,480 Speaker 1: going to leave. I love you, I'm loyal. I promised 778 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:13,359 Speaker 1: you last night that I won't leave. And I said, 779 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,279 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go pee and I'll be right back. 780 00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:17,799 Speaker 1: And I was like, might smoak a cigarette, that's it. 781 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:26,640 Speaker 2: And he was like, all right, wow, y'all, that's just 782 00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 2: a situation. I don't think many of us can ever 783 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:33,920 Speaker 2: imagine even being in. And we'll hear what happened next 784 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,719 Speaker 2: in Part two. So that concludes Part one of my 785 00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,800 Speaker 2: conversation with Jessica Lamb, and Part two is now available, 786 00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:44,400 Speaker 2: which I promise you do not want to miss and 787 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:46,919 Speaker 2: the Redemption part of this story is coming soon. Guys, 788 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,120 Speaker 2: I promise I'll see you in part two.