WEBVTT - Shirley Manson 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:20.956 Pushkin. Hey, this is Justin Richmond from the Broken Record podcast. 0:00:21.276 --> 0:00:23.436 Join me this June for a live taping of Broken 0:00:23.476 --> 0:00:26.316 Record at the Tribeca Festival. We're all bee in conversation 0:00:26.476 --> 0:00:29.356 with Infinity Song, a New York based soft rock band 0:00:29.356 --> 0:00:31.996 comprised of four siblings who will also be doing a 0:00:32.036 --> 0:00:34.596 couple of songs for us. You'll hear the artist and 0:00:34.636 --> 0:00:38.916 a career spanning conversation about their inspirations and dynamic styles. 0:00:39.556 --> 0:00:41.916 We'll be at the SVA Theater on June twelve at 0:00:41.956 --> 0:00:45.516 eight thirty pm. Defund tickets, wos A tribecafilm dot com 0:00:45.516 --> 0:00:49.996 slash Broken Record all lowercase. That's tribecafilm dot com slash 0:00:50.036 --> 0:00:54.996 Broken Record. Hope to see there. Shirley Manson, the iconic 0:00:55.036 --> 0:00:57.996 Scottish singer songwriter, rose to eight girl status in the 0:00:58.076 --> 0:01:02.596 nineties as a fierce and magnetic frontwoman of Garbage. Though 0:01:02.636 --> 0:01:05.316 her tenure with the band now spans over three decades, 0:01:05.516 --> 0:01:08.196 Shirley was already a season lead singer when she joined 0:01:08.196 --> 0:01:11.156 in nineteen ninety six. She was invited to audition for 0:01:11.196 --> 0:01:14.316 Garbage after guitarist Steve Marker spotted her in a music 0:01:14.396 --> 0:01:18.836 video for her previous band Angelfish. Today, Garbage is sold 0:01:18.876 --> 0:01:22.636 over seventeen million albums worldwide, with all original members still 0:01:22.676 --> 0:01:25.836 going strong. The band is now preparing to release their 0:01:25.876 --> 0:01:29.036 eighth studio album, Let All That We Imagine Be the Light, 0:01:29.596 --> 0:01:33.436 and Shirley's unmistakable voice remains as sharp and compelling as ever. 0:01:34.236 --> 0:01:36.636 On today's episode, Lee Rose sits down with Shirley Manson 0:01:36.676 --> 0:01:39.276 to discussed how an unexpected piece of advice from an 0:01:39.316 --> 0:01:41.876 acting coach during her time on the Fox sci fi 0:01:42.036 --> 0:01:45.956 series Terminator The Sarah Connor Chronicles continues to shape her 0:01:45.996 --> 0:01:49.716 creative process. Shirley also opens up about the challenges of 0:01:49.756 --> 0:01:53.396 communicating with her bandmates and shares a hilarious story about 0:01:53.396 --> 0:01:59.116 meeting one of her musical heroes, Patti Smith. This is 0:01:59.196 --> 0:02:04.916 broken record, real musicians, real conversations. This episode is brought 0:02:04.956 --> 0:02:08.396 to you by Defender, a vehicle engineered to meet challenges 0:02:08.396 --> 0:02:12.076 head on so you and explore with confidence. Adventure Seekers 0:02:12.076 --> 0:02:14.916 and risk takers can explore the full Defender lineup at 0:02:14.996 --> 0:02:19.996 land ROVERUSA dot com. Here's Leah Rose with Shirley Manson. 0:02:21.196 --> 0:02:23.916 I've been watching and listening to a lot of interviews 0:02:23.956 --> 0:02:26.676 that you've done over the years. And I heard you 0:02:26.756 --> 0:02:32.516 talking about working with an acting coach, maybe after working 0:02:32.556 --> 0:02:36.636 on Terminator, and you learned some really interesting thing or 0:02:36.676 --> 0:02:39.676 got some really interesting insight from the acting coach. Can 0:02:39.716 --> 0:02:42.516 you remember what she told you and how that sort 0:02:42.516 --> 0:02:44.836 of influenced you at the time. 0:02:45.556 --> 0:02:45.756 Yeah. 0:02:45.796 --> 0:02:49.076 I studied under an acting coach called Sharon Chatton in 0:02:49.156 --> 0:02:54.876 Los Angeles, and she absolutely changed my whole life and 0:02:54.916 --> 0:02:58.316 my relationship to my music, to my work, I guess 0:02:58.396 --> 0:03:01.236 for one of a better term, and I think about 0:03:01.236 --> 0:03:03.716 her almost every single day. 0:03:04.196 --> 0:03:04.676 Wow. 0:03:05.436 --> 0:03:08.676 Yeah, she taught me so much about not just being 0:03:08.716 --> 0:03:11.956 an art but being a human and being trying to 0:03:11.956 --> 0:03:16.196 be in the moment, which is such a profound gift 0:03:16.396 --> 0:03:19.276 if you are able to teach yourself to live in 0:03:19.316 --> 0:03:23.236 the moment and not worry about tomorrow or yesterday. And 0:03:23.356 --> 0:03:26.796 up until meeting her, I was much more fearful, I guess, 0:03:26.996 --> 0:03:29.956 of trying to be creative, and then she just taught 0:03:29.956 --> 0:03:33.156 me how to sort of sink into it and play 0:03:33.676 --> 0:03:37.596 instead of plan, and that was profound. That's just one 0:03:37.636 --> 0:03:40.036 of the very many things she taught me. But that 0:03:40.196 --> 0:03:44.316 was a real kicker for me, is how to be 0:03:44.796 --> 0:03:48.836 in the moment of creation and not be rigid, but 0:03:48.996 --> 0:03:53.196 to be really fluid and just go with whatever is 0:03:53.236 --> 0:03:57.796 coming out and investigate that and chase that rabbit and 0:03:57.876 --> 0:04:01.036 not try and force something that perhaps was preordained. 0:04:02.036 --> 0:04:04.996 Do you remember the first project, creative project that you 0:04:05.076 --> 0:04:07.956 applied her advice to and did that turn out differently 0:04:08.236 --> 0:04:08.596 for you? 0:04:09.476 --> 0:04:10.196 Yeah? 0:04:10.196 --> 0:04:13.236 My band Garbage had been on a long hiatus for 0:04:13.276 --> 0:04:15.276 a lot of different reasons. But we had been dropped 0:04:15.276 --> 0:04:20.556 by Entrascope Records, and my mother had been diagnosed with 0:04:20.596 --> 0:04:24.996 a very extreme and aggressive form of dementia called Pick's disease, 0:04:25.516 --> 0:04:27.956 which took her out of the game in like eighteen months. 0:04:28.316 --> 0:04:28.756 Wow. 0:04:29.236 --> 0:04:33.916 And then two of my really close girlfriends, one lost 0:04:33.916 --> 0:04:36.796 her young husband and the other lost her six year 0:04:36.796 --> 0:04:40.156 old son. And it was all during this hiatus that 0:04:40.596 --> 0:04:42.796 I was on from the band, and that took up 0:04:42.836 --> 0:04:45.756 a lot of my time and energy. But I also, 0:04:46.956 --> 0:04:49.556 as you said rightly pointed out, I was on the 0:04:49.596 --> 0:04:53.196 Sarah Connor Chronicles on the Fox Networks. It was a 0:04:53.196 --> 0:04:55.956 big show, a big TV show. And then I started 0:04:55.956 --> 0:04:58.876 to study with Sharon and then I got back with 0:04:58.916 --> 0:05:02.636 the band I think in about twenty ten, and we 0:05:02.756 --> 0:05:06.236 started work on Not Your kind of People, which was 0:05:06.236 --> 0:05:09.676 our fifth studio record, and so I started plowing it. 0:05:09.836 --> 0:05:13.276 Then the things I'd learned over that course of time 0:05:13.316 --> 0:05:16.196 in my life, which was really a very difficult and 0:05:16.316 --> 0:05:21.916 tumultuous time, And yeah, I've just gotten better at adhering 0:05:21.956 --> 0:05:25.476 to the lessons Sharon taught me as time has passed. 0:05:26.716 --> 0:05:29.036 Is there anything specific you can point to on the 0:05:29.116 --> 0:05:32.556 new album that maybe is a result from that advice 0:05:32.836 --> 0:05:33.316 from her? 0:05:34.916 --> 0:05:39.356 Well, I immediately think of have We Met the Void? Which 0:05:39.476 --> 0:05:42.316 was I was in the studio with Duke, the guitarist 0:05:42.356 --> 0:05:44.796 in Garbage. It was just the two of us, and 0:05:44.876 --> 0:05:46.916 we had been talking about a book he was reading 0:05:46.956 --> 0:05:51.036 about witchcraft, and we sort of were chuckling together, and 0:05:51.036 --> 0:05:53.676 I was like, let's try and write a song about that. 0:05:53.796 --> 0:05:56.676 You know, about how women were destroyed by because they 0:05:56.716 --> 0:05:59.716 were powerful, or they were intelligent, or they were intuitive. 0:06:00.036 --> 0:06:03.116 They were put to death for all these reasons. That's 0:06:03.116 --> 0:06:05.716 what I want to write about. And I went, I 0:06:05.756 --> 0:06:09.476 hopped into the vocal booth and he played this particular 0:06:09.556 --> 0:06:11.796 piece of music that he had written with the band, 0:06:12.316 --> 0:06:15.876 and I was determined I was going to write about 0:06:16.436 --> 0:06:20.996 witchcraft or witches, and instead I heard the first few 0:06:21.036 --> 0:06:23.276 bars of the music, and I just had a picture 0:06:23.316 --> 0:06:25.796 of myself when I was a young woman in my 0:06:25.836 --> 0:06:29.476 early twenties. It was a situation that had happened in 0:06:29.516 --> 0:06:33.756 real life, and I just sort of swung into it, 0:06:33.796 --> 0:06:37.036 and this bizarre story that had occurred to me in 0:06:37.076 --> 0:06:40.076 my life came out of nowhere. I hadn't even thought 0:06:40.116 --> 0:06:43.156 about it in years. And that's kind of what I 0:06:43.236 --> 0:06:48.396 mean of like just having a thread of an idea 0:06:48.556 --> 0:06:51.956 and then it just turning left and be willing to 0:06:52.196 --> 0:06:54.676 follow it, even though that wasn't my intention. It was 0:06:54.716 --> 0:06:57.916 like I just realized I saw the thread, I grabbed it, 0:06:58.316 --> 0:07:02.596 and I just followed the thread into the void. And 0:07:02.676 --> 0:07:04.236 so that would be one of that would be a 0:07:04.276 --> 0:07:06.556 really like sort of an example of what I'm talking about. 0:07:06.876 --> 0:07:08.676 Yeah, I was going to ask you about that song, 0:07:08.756 --> 0:07:10.436 and I was going to ask you how did you 0:07:10.516 --> 0:07:14.516 get in the headspace to record that, because it's like 0:07:14.556 --> 0:07:18.956 you're growling and it's so it's so raw and feels 0:07:18.956 --> 0:07:20.916 a little bit primal and sinister. 0:07:22.516 --> 0:07:26.036 Well, it is sinister. It's definitely sinister. And it was 0:07:26.076 --> 0:07:28.836 a very dark experience. You know, when you find out 0:07:28.876 --> 0:07:33.836 you know your partner is having another and entirely different 0:07:33.876 --> 0:07:36.556 relationship outside of the one that you thought you had. 0:07:36.916 --> 0:07:39.636 And so, yeah, that song. 0:07:39.476 --> 0:07:42.076 Is very dark. I love it. 0:07:42.196 --> 0:07:46.036 I love it too. It's oh, I love it too. 0:07:46.076 --> 0:07:49.956 And it feels so personal, you know that. And it's 0:07:49.956 --> 0:07:52.796 funny this sort of joy you experience when you can 0:07:52.876 --> 0:07:55.876 throw in really personal things into a lyric, you know, 0:07:56.596 --> 0:08:00.156 being able to name my city that felt like radical 0:08:00.276 --> 0:08:03.196 to me, you know. And I love the line, have 0:08:03.236 --> 0:08:05.836 you motherfuckers been seeing each other? You know? Something I've 0:08:06.036 --> 0:08:08.436 said at the time, And it's something that you know, 0:08:08.756 --> 0:08:11.876 I've said quite a few times since, you know, And 0:08:11.956 --> 0:08:15.316 I think anyone who's ever been cheated on can really 0:08:15.356 --> 0:08:18.236 relate to that line, you know, that moment when you're like, 0:08:18.596 --> 0:08:22.556 hold on a minute, something crazy is happening here, and 0:08:22.796 --> 0:08:28.356 it's not really what I expected to happen to me today, 0:08:28.676 --> 0:08:31.716 you know, totally. Yeah, it's such a horrible feeling, you know, 0:08:31.756 --> 0:08:33.556 it's just a horrible, horrible feeling. 0:08:33.956 --> 0:08:34.436 Yeah. 0:08:34.596 --> 0:08:37.196 Isn't it awful that you can still feel that too 0:08:37.596 --> 0:08:38.596 so many years later? 0:08:39.316 --> 0:08:42.676 But isn't it also wonderful, you know, to be still 0:08:42.676 --> 0:08:46.356 in contact with those really raw feelings of your youth 0:08:46.956 --> 0:08:50.276 when you were an entirely different person and you didn't 0:08:50.436 --> 0:08:52.596 know what you do now. I think there's something really 0:08:52.596 --> 0:08:55.116 glorious about that and exciting. You know, It's like, ah, 0:08:55.196 --> 0:08:57.796 I remember her. I can remember what I was wearing. 0:08:58.076 --> 0:09:00.076 I can remember you know how I wore my hair 0:09:00.076 --> 0:09:03.636 and my makeup, and you know the bag I used 0:09:03.676 --> 0:09:05.876 to use. And it's like a real sort of Proustian 0:09:05.956 --> 0:09:09.716 moment right of the Madeline. It's like, ah, I like 0:09:09.796 --> 0:09:12.676 being able to touch all my ghosts totally. 0:09:13.076 --> 0:09:17.196 Do you ever wonder if you miss remember things? Like 0:09:18.036 --> 0:09:21.276 if you were to actually go back and see yourself 0:09:21.556 --> 0:09:24.236 or just be sort of like an eyewitness to your 0:09:24.276 --> 0:09:27.676 early life, what if it's totally different. I think about 0:09:27.676 --> 0:09:28.436 that all the time. 0:09:29.316 --> 0:09:32.036 I know for a fact everything will be different. You know. 0:09:32.116 --> 0:09:36.036 I know that our memories are so flawed, but I 0:09:36.076 --> 0:09:39.556 do believe that you sort of remember the important parts 0:09:39.676 --> 0:09:41.796 of the storyline. You know, you get it. There was 0:09:42.476 --> 0:09:46.156 you know, a deceit that you know and you were furious, 0:09:46.196 --> 0:09:47.236 and so you remember. 0:09:46.956 --> 0:09:47.756 The big picture. 0:09:48.116 --> 0:09:53.116 Yeah, the details not so much, although again in this song, 0:09:53.196 --> 0:09:57.516 I remember these crazy details because my partner lived opposite 0:09:57.516 --> 0:10:03.516 Goudy Cathedral in Barcelona, and I can remember standing looking 0:10:03.556 --> 0:10:05.756 at this young woman thinking, oh my god, you're having 0:10:05.756 --> 0:10:09.916 an affair with my boyfriend, and hearing the bells of 0:10:09.956 --> 0:10:11.356 the cathedral chime. 0:10:11.476 --> 0:10:14.196 You know what I mean. It was so weird. It 0:10:14.276 --> 0:10:15.076 was so weird. 0:10:16.436 --> 0:10:20.436 But then again, maybe somebody'll say, yea, Guidi's bell stopped 0:10:20.436 --> 0:10:22.956 working one hundred years ago, so maybe I'm completely tripping 0:10:23.036 --> 0:10:26.516 as well. But yeah, I guess that's part of the 0:10:26.596 --> 0:10:30.596 fun of memory. You survived it, and the details probably 0:10:30.676 --> 0:10:31.676 don't matter that much. 0:10:31.956 --> 0:10:35.556 Yes, what is the dynamic like when you're in the 0:10:35.596 --> 0:10:41.316 studio with Duke and you're entering this really private, intense moment. 0:10:42.316 --> 0:10:44.796 I know, maybe you were in a vocal booth by yourself, 0:10:44.836 --> 0:10:48.396 but do you feel comfortable enough where you can just 0:10:48.476 --> 0:10:50.956 totally go there with him there? 0:10:51.796 --> 0:10:51.996 Yeah? 0:10:52.036 --> 0:10:54.036 I mean I feel comfortable with the whole band, you know, 0:10:54.116 --> 0:10:56.956 the three of them, Steve, Butch and Duke. I used 0:10:56.996 --> 0:10:59.676 to feel very self conscious when I went into the 0:10:59.756 --> 0:11:04.156 vocal booth, and I was not happy particularly, I felt 0:11:04.276 --> 0:11:10.636 very isolated and judged. And now again going back to 0:11:10.676 --> 0:11:13.076 Shan Chattan and my acting teacher, she taught me how 0:11:13.076 --> 0:11:15.116 to switch that all off. She was like, you're not 0:11:15.236 --> 0:11:16.596 there to serve anybody. 0:11:16.996 --> 0:11:17.716 You're there to. 0:11:17.676 --> 0:11:23.156 Serve your creative instinct. Whereas when I first joined the band, 0:11:23.636 --> 0:11:26.156 because I joined the band under strange circumstances, you know, 0:11:26.196 --> 0:11:29.156 Butch was, you know, one of the premier producers in 0:11:29.196 --> 0:11:32.796 America in the nineties, and he had a lot of weight, 0:11:32.956 --> 0:11:38.156 and there was so much respect, and he had this 0:11:38.436 --> 0:11:41.516 power that I felt that I did not have. And 0:11:41.756 --> 0:11:44.636 I also, you know, really wanted the band to be 0:11:44.716 --> 0:11:46.916 proud of me. They had selected me to do this job. 0:11:47.076 --> 0:11:49.596 I wanted to do the very, very best job I 0:11:49.596 --> 0:11:52.876 could do, and as a result, I think, looking back, 0:11:53.596 --> 0:11:57.076 as a young woman trying to prove herself, it was 0:11:57.156 --> 0:12:02.796 difficult and I didn't necessarily enjoy the creative aspect of it. 0:12:03.316 --> 0:12:06.396 I found it taxing, and as I said, I felt 0:12:06.436 --> 0:12:09.196 like I was sort of being judged, and so so 0:12:10.156 --> 0:12:13.796 a lot of the joy of creativity that I experience 0:12:13.996 --> 0:12:16.876 now I was kind of robbed from me, not through 0:12:16.956 --> 0:12:19.196 anybody else's fault, but my own. I hastened to add, 0:12:19.236 --> 0:12:22.356 this was all imagined in my own mind. But now 0:12:22.356 --> 0:12:25.436 I have no self consciousness at all. I don't care 0:12:25.476 --> 0:12:27.756 if I make mistakes or if I'm singing out of 0:12:27.796 --> 0:12:30.556 tune as long as I've sort of getting the idea across, 0:12:30.796 --> 0:12:33.956 you know, Whereas back in the day, I'd really freak 0:12:33.996 --> 0:12:37.516 out if I didn't hit a note, or I would 0:12:37.516 --> 0:12:40.436 be scared to try something vocally that I didn't know 0:12:40.516 --> 0:12:43.396 I could absolutely pull off with a plum. I didn't 0:12:43.396 --> 0:12:45.836 want to fail in front of them, and so I didn't. 0:12:46.316 --> 0:12:48.716 And now I'm like, I'm willing to try anything, and 0:12:48.796 --> 0:12:50.676 if they like it, they like it. If they don't, 0:12:50.756 --> 0:12:53.956 then if as long as I like it, I feel good. 0:12:54.676 --> 0:12:57.796 What is the creative dynamic within the band? Like, now, 0:12:58.236 --> 0:13:01.156 how do the songs come together? Is it usually the 0:13:01.196 --> 0:13:03.396 guys go off and make tracks on their own and 0:13:03.436 --> 0:13:07.796 then bring you in and then you write to the track, 0:13:07.996 --> 0:13:09.556 or how do the songs get made? 0:13:10.716 --> 0:13:10.876 Well? 0:13:10.876 --> 0:13:13.276 This record was very different from any other record we've 0:13:13.316 --> 0:13:17.596 ever made because I had two hip surgeries, two hip replacements, 0:13:17.676 --> 0:13:20.796 both at the beginning of the making of this record 0:13:20.796 --> 0:13:23.476 and at the very end the dovetail of making this record, 0:13:23.596 --> 0:13:28.996 I had another hip placement and no different hip. Oh yeah, 0:13:28.996 --> 0:13:33.396 I'm fully bionic. It's super hot. I'm so Lindsey Wagner. 0:13:35.436 --> 0:13:39.396 But as a result of being mechanically broken, I spent 0:13:39.436 --> 0:13:41.756 a lot of time in bed, and I had a 0:13:41.756 --> 0:13:43.276 lot of brain fog because I was on a lot 0:13:43.356 --> 0:13:46.476 pain killers, and I didn't want to go into the studio. 0:13:46.556 --> 0:13:49.156 I didn't feel I felt very vulnerable, and I was 0:13:49.396 --> 0:13:52.716 arguably a little depressed. But I knew that if we 0:13:53.316 --> 0:13:57.596 wasted too much time not making our next record, it 0:13:57.636 --> 0:13:59.956 would be a decade until we got another record out. 0:13:59.996 --> 0:14:02.876 And I was determined that wouldn't be the case. And 0:14:03.036 --> 0:14:05.756 so I urged the band to go and work without me, 0:14:05.796 --> 0:14:08.196 which is a first. Like usually we do everything together. 0:14:08.636 --> 0:14:10.716 It were allway in the same room pretty much, you know, 0:14:11.996 --> 0:14:15.356 and in this case, they went into Butcher's home studio 0:14:15.836 --> 0:14:18.836 and they would send me musical ideas as it came 0:14:18.876 --> 0:14:22.916 to them, and then I would work, you know, on 0:14:22.956 --> 0:14:26.596 my belodies or my lyrics or whatnot by myself, and 0:14:26.676 --> 0:14:29.716 that I've never done that, and it was strange, and 0:14:29.756 --> 0:14:34.036 I do think it was great for me in one regard, 0:14:34.636 --> 0:14:38.116 but it also unfortunately underscored for me how much of 0:14:38.156 --> 0:14:41.916 an outsider I remain in Garbage in that, you know, 0:14:41.956 --> 0:14:45.596 there are three men of the same age, pretty much 0:14:45.636 --> 0:14:48.316 come from the same part of the country. They love 0:14:48.316 --> 0:14:52.556 each other very much, and they're really tight. And the 0:14:52.636 --> 0:14:56.436 three of them are you know, quite quiet in a 0:14:56.476 --> 0:15:00.836 funny way and a little uncommunicative, you know, that very 0:15:00.876 --> 0:15:05.876 sort of stiff upper Midwestern lip that you can encounter 0:15:05.956 --> 0:15:11.596 a lot. So they don't really communicate with me creatively, 0:15:11.876 --> 0:15:15.396 which I find as I get older harder and harder 0:15:15.436 --> 0:15:18.796 to navigate. When I was young, I'd put in a 0:15:18.836 --> 0:15:23.756 lot of energy into facilitating communication within the band, and 0:15:24.356 --> 0:15:27.956 then I just got well, then I got broken. When 0:15:27.956 --> 0:15:33.156 you can't walk, it's like, fuck everything, Fuck everyone. I'm 0:15:33.196 --> 0:15:35.996 just trying to literally learn how to get up out 0:15:35.996 --> 0:15:38.676 of a seat and walk across the room. And I 0:15:38.676 --> 0:15:41.556 didn't have any energy to spend on anybody else or 0:15:41.556 --> 0:15:44.996 anything else, and as a result, there was very little communication. 0:15:45.276 --> 0:15:48.156 And I find that hard because I'm such a communicative person. 0:15:48.716 --> 0:15:53.636 I gasp for contact and connection. And I feel like 0:15:54.156 --> 0:15:56.436 me and the boys are I mean, we love each other. 0:15:56.476 --> 0:15:58.596 We've got a great dynamic. If you came into a room, 0:15:58.996 --> 0:16:00.996 you'd be like, oh, they're all great. They really get 0:16:01.036 --> 0:16:06.516 along and we do and it's lovely, but creatively that 0:16:06.676 --> 0:16:10.076 it feels to me like there's quite gulf now in 0:16:10.116 --> 0:16:13.876 a funny way between us, which hopefully at some point 0:16:13.916 --> 0:16:18.196 we can manage, you know better. I'm certainly more robust 0:16:18.236 --> 0:16:20.116 now than I was three years ago, you know, when 0:16:20.156 --> 0:16:24.036 I started upon this sort of physical period of disintegration 0:16:24.276 --> 0:16:25.876 and rehabilitation. 0:16:26.436 --> 0:16:29.396 Yeah, so are you health wise? Are you doing better now? 0:16:29.436 --> 0:16:32.196 Where now are? 0:16:33.076 --> 0:16:33.836 Yes? 0:16:33.916 --> 0:16:37.156 Be warned, she's back. 0:16:38.916 --> 0:16:40.916 But yeah, it was very hard. You know. 0:16:41.316 --> 0:16:43.316 It's really changed the way I look at the world 0:16:43.396 --> 0:16:46.956 and look at other people, and it's sort of forced 0:16:46.996 --> 0:16:50.196 me to really try and tap into my compassion, which 0:16:50.236 --> 0:16:55.116 I I've never been famous for my compassion. And now 0:16:55.156 --> 0:16:58.796 I realize how much people are dealing with privately. And 0:16:59.636 --> 0:17:02.196 I now walk down the street and I can see 0:17:02.876 --> 0:17:06.396 people's bodies move a certain way and I'm like, Oh, 0:17:07.036 --> 0:17:09.596 they're going to need a hit replacement, or oh their 0:17:09.676 --> 0:17:13.276 knees fucked, or oh my god, you know this person 0:17:13.316 --> 0:17:15.516 doesn't look well. I mean, it's just it's horrible. It's 0:17:15.516 --> 0:17:18.556 a horrible, like sort of education I got that I 0:17:18.596 --> 0:17:20.916 wish I hadn't. But at the same time, it's also 0:17:20.996 --> 0:17:23.876 been quite magical in a funny way. It's taught me 0:17:23.916 --> 0:17:26.916 to be more patient with my body. It's taught me 0:17:27.316 --> 0:17:31.796 to try harder, focusing on tiny tiny increments, Like I'm 0:17:31.836 --> 0:17:34.916 a big stroke person. I like, you know, I'm fast 0:17:34.996 --> 0:17:35.916 and I'm furious. 0:17:36.036 --> 0:17:37.356 And it taught me. 0:17:37.436 --> 0:17:40.956 Recovery taught me to like, if you can literally walk 0:17:41.196 --> 0:17:45.396 a centimeter, that's okay, you'll walk to tomorrow. Wow, that 0:17:45.716 --> 0:17:48.316 was brand new for me because I have never been 0:17:48.396 --> 0:17:49.196 that kind of person. 0:17:50.276 --> 0:17:52.756 So do you really feel like you weren't a compassionate person? 0:17:52.836 --> 0:17:55.476 I feel I obviously I don't know you, but I 0:17:55.476 --> 0:17:59.716 feel like just hearing you talk and you seem very empathetic, 0:17:59.796 --> 0:18:03.276 and you seem like you take a lot on and 0:18:03.316 --> 0:18:05.236 you you seem compassionate. 0:18:06.036 --> 0:18:10.476 I mean, I've always had compassion though for the big picture, 0:18:10.756 --> 0:18:15.636 and I'm really talking more about the small picture of people, individuals, 0:18:15.996 --> 0:18:19.756 individual interaction. I think I find it harder to tune 0:18:19.796 --> 0:18:24.196 into my sympathy and understanding of an individual in front 0:18:24.196 --> 0:18:28.476 of me as opposed to a cause. Oh interesting, yeah, everything, 0:18:28.836 --> 0:18:31.956 Like I've never noticed small things when I was young. 0:18:32.236 --> 0:18:35.036 I mean I really didn't. I didn't notice nature. Like 0:18:35.076 --> 0:18:40.596 my father is really interested in environmental protection, and he 0:18:40.636 --> 0:18:43.316 would take me on nature rambles, you know, and he'd 0:18:43.316 --> 0:18:46.716 be pointing at mushrooms or the color of a leaf 0:18:46.876 --> 0:18:49.356 or the texture of a stone, and it would bore 0:18:49.396 --> 0:18:52.956 the shit out of me, you know. And then as 0:18:52.996 --> 0:18:55.836 I got older, I noticed my first husband was similar. 0:18:55.876 --> 0:18:58.956 We'd be like on a bus going into town and. 0:18:58.916 --> 0:19:00.876 He'd be like, oh, look at the little bird on the. 0:19:00.796 --> 0:19:03.236 Branch, and I'd be like what huh, And I'd be 0:19:03.276 --> 0:19:06.356 in my brain, you know, thinking about God only knows what. 0:19:06.836 --> 0:19:07.636 Now that I'm. 0:19:07.516 --> 0:19:11.916 Older, I've we started to see the tiny thing and 0:19:11.996 --> 0:19:14.396 I'm so blown away by it, and I'm like, oh, 0:19:14.596 --> 0:19:17.396 I've missed out on so much in my life by 0:19:17.476 --> 0:19:19.596 not paying attention to any of this. You know, there's 0:19:19.636 --> 0:19:24.036 so much beauty that I was oblivious to. So I 0:19:24.036 --> 0:19:26.956 guess that's what I mean about, like compassion has been 0:19:26.996 --> 0:19:31.396 sort of ignited, I think by my attention to small things. 0:19:33.236 --> 0:19:35.556 We'll be back with more from Shirley Manson and Lea Rose. 0:19:35.716 --> 0:19:42.756 After the Break, I saw on your last album, No 0:19:42.876 --> 0:19:46.396 God's No Masters, you had a song called Waiting for God, 0:19:47.516 --> 0:19:49.316 and then on the new album, you have a song 0:19:49.436 --> 0:19:52.196 the Day that I Met God. So I was curious 0:19:52.276 --> 0:19:55.356 how those songs in your mind, if there's any relationship 0:19:55.396 --> 0:19:58.356 to those songs, if they have a relationship to each other, 0:19:58.836 --> 0:20:00.956 and also, at this point in your life, what your 0:20:01.036 --> 0:20:02.436 relationship with God is? 0:20:03.796 --> 0:20:05.636 That might be the best question I've ever been asked 0:20:05.636 --> 0:20:10.596 in my life. Well, first of all, yes, there is 0:20:10.596 --> 0:20:14.276 a connection between the two songs, but I didn't realize 0:20:14.316 --> 0:20:18.396 that at the time, and it's only you know. Since 0:20:18.996 --> 0:20:21.916 we finished the record and I thought about no God, 0:20:21.996 --> 0:20:24.636 No Masters, and I thought about waiting for God to 0:20:24.716 --> 0:20:28.956 show up and its relationship to the day I met God, 0:20:28.996 --> 0:20:31.596 I realized they are absolutely interconnected, and one of the 0:20:31.596 --> 0:20:33.796 reasons being waiting for God. 0:20:33.916 --> 0:20:35.596 I wrote about. 0:20:35.196 --> 0:20:43.516 My long overdu shamefully over you awareness about black lives 0:20:43.676 --> 0:20:46.636 in America, I mean, though arguably the world. But it 0:20:46.756 --> 0:20:50.556 was triggered, my awareness really was triggered by the murder 0:20:50.556 --> 0:20:55.956 of George Floyd, and it again turned me around. The 0:20:55.996 --> 0:20:59.356 death of that man. The murder of that poor man 0:21:00.156 --> 0:21:02.316 made me realize I had a lot of work to do. 0:21:02.596 --> 0:21:05.756 I needed to educate myself. I was horrified by what 0:21:05.836 --> 0:21:08.676 happened to him. It was one of the most grotesque 0:21:08.716 --> 0:21:12.276 and a bomberable things I've ever seen, and it sent 0:21:12.396 --> 0:21:16.636 me off on a long journey towards educating myself about colonialism, 0:21:16.676 --> 0:21:18.996 about white supremacy, about racism, etc. 0:21:19.436 --> 0:21:19.636 Etc. 0:21:20.556 --> 0:21:25.916 And waiting for God was my dismay at a lot 0:21:25.956 --> 0:21:32.236 of the systemic injustices that exist worldwide, and then coming 0:21:32.276 --> 0:21:36.556 into making this record, as I mentioned earlier, i'd I 0:21:36.596 --> 0:21:40.436 had so much physical problems. Yeah, for lack of a 0:21:40.436 --> 0:21:44.876 better word, I realized that if I did not discipline 0:21:44.916 --> 0:21:50.636 myself to think differently from the mindset I was in 0:21:50.676 --> 0:21:54.076 when I made No God's No Masters, that I would 0:21:54.156 --> 0:21:57.236 probably destroy myself in some way or another, or I 0:21:57.236 --> 0:22:01.396 certainly would never recover my equilibrium both physically and emotionally. 0:22:01.476 --> 0:22:04.996 You know, in such a state, I couldn't afford to 0:22:05.556 --> 0:22:08.996 engage with my outrage that I'd employed. So if it 0:22:09.316 --> 0:22:13.476 lean no Gosna Masters, I realized, like, you are in peril, 0:22:14.156 --> 0:22:17.236 and you really need to look at the world differently, 0:22:18.436 --> 0:22:22.756 otherwise you really will put yourself back on your heels 0:22:22.796 --> 0:22:27.996 and possibly might never fully recover your vigor. And so, 0:22:28.596 --> 0:22:32.476 as I mentioned, I had these two hip surgeries, and 0:22:32.916 --> 0:22:36.276 I was taking a lot of pain medication in the first. 0:22:36.036 --> 0:22:38.596 Few weeks of both both surgeries. 0:22:38.556 --> 0:22:41.556 And I was kind of suffering from a really quite 0:22:41.636 --> 0:22:46.636 extreme brain fog. When the band sent me this piece 0:22:46.636 --> 0:22:49.916 of music, and I was on my treadmill during my 0:22:49.996 --> 0:22:53.756 rehab learning how to walk again, and just out of 0:22:53.756 --> 0:22:56.716 the blue, this song arrived in my head. It wasn't 0:22:56.956 --> 0:22:59.116