1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: This is Dana Perkins and you're listening to Switched on 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: the BNAF podcast, and on today's show, we have a 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: special episode for you because we're going to bring you 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 1: an interview from the BNAF Forum in Houston from the 5 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: fifth of March. The theme of this event was the 6 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,159 Speaker 1: Barrel of Tomorrow, where the agenda highlighted the parts of 7 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: the economy that are transforming in many respects, from hydrocarbons 8 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: to electrons. One of the topics we touched upon was 9 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: how aviation is changing. The aviation industry's pathway to net 10 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:33,959 Speaker 1: zero is far from certain. Operational improvements and technologies such 11 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 1: as sustainable aviation fuels and zero mission aircraft could offer 12 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: substantial emissions reductions, but questions revolve around timing, scalability, and 13 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 1: customer willingness to pay. Airlines will play a pivotal role 14 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: in implementing these solutions as the aviation industry looks to 15 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: reach its decarbonization goals. So on stage we were joined 16 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: by United Airlines Chief Sustainability Officer Lauren Riley and she 17 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: was interviewed by Jade Patterson from bn EF's Renewable Fuels team. 18 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: She shares United strategy and how their recent ad campaign 19 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: with Oscar the Grouch plays into it. She also gets 20 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: into the role of policy as well as venture capital 21 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: in reducing aviation emissions. To find out where BNF's forums 22 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: and summits are taking place around the world, you can 23 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: find links in our show notes. Now to Jade's conversation 24 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: on stage at the BNA Forum in Houston with United 25 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: Airlines Chief Sustainability Officer Lauren Riley. 26 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 2: Lauren, thank you so much for joining us. 27 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 3: I was definitely talking to some people beforehand, a lot 28 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 3: of United fans in the crowd, and I got to say, 29 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 3: we're a little disappointed you didn't bring a chief trash 30 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 3: officer Oscar, but you know, we're excited you're here, so, 31 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 3: you know, just to kick things off. You know, United 32 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 3: has been super involved in aviation decarbonization. You guys are 33 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 3: very active in the soft space and and really pushing 34 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 3: the envelope there. Can you just start off with a 35 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 3: little bit of an overview of your roadmap to net 36 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 3: zero and reducing your missions. 37 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 4: Sure, and it's great to be here. Thank you to 38 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 4: the Bloomberg team for having me. I think it's a 39 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 4: little bit of a different discussion with me. This afternoon 40 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 4: as a customer, because I'm hearing all about the supply 41 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 4: and how we get to pay for it and who 42 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 4: wants what. But there are absolutely constraints on the customer side, 43 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 4: and I look forward to sort of exploring that today. 44 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:32,799 Speaker 4: So as a heartwobate industry, we're kind of in a pickle. 45 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 4: We need to transition, but we don't have the marketplace 46 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 4: and the solutions at scale to really make a difference yet. 47 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 4: But yet we have these commitments to net zero by 48 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 4: twenty fifty. United has a commitment to reduce our carbon 49 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 4: intensity fifty percent by twenty thirty five compared to twenty nineteen. 50 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 4: Sour most recent normal year of flying before the pandemic, 51 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 4: that is SBTi certified, and we can talk about sort 52 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 4: of the value of third party credibility and validation. But 53 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 4: we need a plan to get there, and so we 54 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 4: started publishing about two years ago our transition plan, our 55 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 4: roadmap to net zero, and effectively you can think of 56 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 4: it in sort of two categories. First and foremost is 57 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 4: how do we simply just use less? So how do 58 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:23,239 Speaker 4: we burn less fuel? And we hear a lot about 59 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 4: fuel in the context of aviation, because when you look 60 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 4: at United's greenhouse gas inventory. Ninety eight percent of my 61 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 4: inventory across the entire global operation is from jet fuel. 62 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 4: So when you talk about climate leadership and transitioning to 63 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 4: low carbon, you can't really have any integrity and sincerity 64 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 4: in the discussion unless you're talking about replacing that jet fuel. 65 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 4: So let's start by using less. And we're really trying 66 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 4: to figure out how do we look at the value 67 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 4: of fleet modernization. So United has invested in more than 68 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 4: eight hundred new aircraft that are going to be coming 69 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 4: online in the next decade. Each one of those aircraft 70 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 4: that we introduce into our fleet twenty five percent more 71 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 4: fuel efficient than the aircraft are replacing. So when you 72 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 4: talk about a decarbonization plan, at least for this decade, 73 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 4: fleet modernization is really crucial. I mean that is really 74 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 4: actually a climate strategy. We also talk about next generation aircraft. 75 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 4: How do you look at the new engine design? How 76 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 4: do you look at new aircraft design? With some of 77 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 4: the blended wing stuff you're seeing out there that super cool, 78 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 4: but actually very very important when I'm looking at what 79 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 4: happens when we hit twenty thirty, what kind of aircraft 80 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 4: can we actually bring into our operation that can not 81 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:39,919 Speaker 4: just hit that twenty five percent reduction, but actually go further. 82 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 4: And then of course there's operational efficiencies, so single engine taxing. 83 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 4: You see those super tugs that pull the aircraft off 84 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 4: the gate, those are important, they're electric, they're charged, they 85 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 4: cause us not to have to burn fuel. Those all 86 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 4: make a difference when you have the number of flights 87 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 4: that we have in any given day. And then of 88 00:04:56,000 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 4: course there's the alternative propulsion, so electric hydrogen that all 89 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 4: of those are going to be i'll call them customer enhancement, 90 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 4: So an opportunity for us to think a little bit 91 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 4: differently about the services that we give to our customers, 92 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 4: but we do it in a way that's low carbon 93 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 4: and so that's a ton of fun and so that 94 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 4: allows us to actually reduce the emissions from flight just 95 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 4: use less. But then we get to saf and SAFF 96 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 4: is the other fifty percent of our decarbonization plan. So 97 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 4: when you think about twenty fifty, what is our portfolio 98 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 4: going to look like? Well, I think you heard the 99 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 4: panel before us and throughout the day that with alternative fuels, 100 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 4: not every alternative fuels the same. There's many different technologies 101 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 4: and conversion technologies out there. There's many different feedstocks out 102 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 4: there and they all create alternative fuels in different ways, 103 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 4: and so we took the time to actually break down 104 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 4: for you and you can find it on United dot 105 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 4: Com what we think will be sort of the contribution 106 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 4: of these sort of generations of SAFF towards our net 107 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 4: zero targets. So you hear a lot about half of 108 00:05:56,320 --> 00:06:00,679 Speaker 4: that's renewable diesel converted to sustainable aviation fuel. Good stuff 109 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 4: that's going to be important to us. We do have 110 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 4: to solve for feedstock, So that was really interesting to 111 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 4: hear Diarling and some of the other folks talking before me. 112 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 4: But that's going to be about, you know, another twenty 113 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 4: twenty five percent of our reduction. And then we talk 114 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 4: about advanced biofuels. So think about ethanol. If you go 115 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 4: fill up your tank and your car, you've got an 116 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 4: ethanol blend and the gas that you put in there. 117 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 4: Why are we not doing that for jets? Could we should? 118 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 4: We've got a lot of ethanol in the United States. 119 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 4: You talked about cover crops. I also heard that talked 120 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 4: about this third season for farmers. That's also an opportunity 121 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 4: for us to think about converting advanced biofuels into sustainable 122 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 4: aviation fuel. And then there's the fuel of the future, 123 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 4: which is power to liquid. So this is let's pull 124 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 4: CO two out of the atmosphere, let's blend it with 125 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 4: some a lot of renewable power right now and some 126 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,720 Speaker 4: green hydrogen, and poof, you've got a really beautiful sustainable 127 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 4: aviation fuel. Doesn't work yet at scale, the economics are terrible. 128 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 4: We're going to figure out a way to get there, 129 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 4: but give me fifteen years. So there's different ways that 130 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 4: we're actually going to realize our path to net zero, 131 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 4: and we need all of them. We have asolutely need 132 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 4: all of them. And frankly, as a customer that uses fuel, 133 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 4: we can't do it alone. So having this conversation in 134 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 4: a group like this around really truly what is the 135 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 4: fuel of tomorrow? This is really important dialogue to have 136 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 4: because we've got to do this together. 137 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think, yeah, I really want to drill 138 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 3: in on SAFF a little bit given the audience and 139 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 3: what we've been talking about today, And I think it's 140 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 3: probably safe to say that it's still early days for SAF, 141 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 3: very low volume. So from an airline's perspective, what do you 142 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 3: think is needed to see scale. 143 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 4: So let me give you some context. Today United and 144 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 4: I will caveat we have a massive growth plan. But 145 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 4: today we use about four and a quarter billion gallons 146 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 4: of fuel in a given year, So four and a 147 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 4: billion gallons for one year for one operator. So keep 148 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 4: that in mind. The equivalent of that in emissions forty 149 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 4: two million metric tons of carbon emissions in the atmosphere. 150 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 4: If we grow and I do not change the way 151 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 4: I fly, I do not do the FLEA modernization, I 152 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 4: do not in bed sustainably aviation fuels, I will more 153 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 4: than double my emissions by twenty fifty. I should be 154 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 4: going down to that zero, but I'm actually going to 155 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 4: go up to more than ninety million metric tons. That's 156 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 4: not okay, And so we do need to figure out 157 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 4: a way to really draw that down, and that's really crucial. 158 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 4: In twenty twenty, United used just a million gallons of 159 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 4: sustainable aviation fuel just one last year we used seven 160 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 4: million gallons. Doesn't sound like a ton, but it is 161 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 4: a sevenfold increase. In the United States, twenty five million 162 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 4: gallons of staff were available, so either produced here or imported, 163 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 4: got roughly a third two quarter of that good but 164 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 4: not great. But if you think about seven million gallons 165 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 4: against a four and a quarter billion bogie, we really 166 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 4: don't have a marketplace yet, and so this is all 167 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:54,319 Speaker 4: about how do you create a marketplace for these alternative fuels? 168 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 4: How do you make it economically viable for an industry 169 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 4: like ours to prefer to purchase that over a commodity 170 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 4: product like Jeta. And that's what we're trying to solve for. 171 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:06,719 Speaker 3: And that's yeah, that's kind of a question that I 172 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 3: think we get a lot these days is around kind 173 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 3: of willingness to pay. So we'd love to hear your 174 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 3: thoughts a little bit around you know, I think it's 175 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,199 Speaker 3: no secret STAFFA is more expensive than traditional jet fuel. 176 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 3: Do you have an idea of kind of what's the 177 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 3: demand elasticity when it comes to burning cleaner fuels? Like 178 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 3: our customer is willing to pay for this? You know, 179 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 3: who's going to put the bill here? 180 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 4: Yeah? You know, it's actually been really interesting. We've had 181 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 4: a long standing program at United it's called the Ecosky's Alliance, 182 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 4: and we effectively partner with our corporate customers and that 183 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 4: includes cargo, so you know, similar to maritime the ability 184 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 4: to ship your your product low carbon is something that 185 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 4: a lot of folks are very interested in supporting right now, 186 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 4: and they can monetize that, which is really exciting. But 187 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 4: we've been working with corporates for some time now to 188 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 4: help pay that premium. And it's two to four times 189 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 4: the cost of conventional jet fuel. An industry like aviation 190 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 4: has maybe a four percent margin, so high revenue, low margin, 191 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 4: we cannot carry that kind of exposure and stay competitive. 192 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:15,079 Speaker 4: It is a super sensitive industry. When it comes to pricing. 193 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 4: You all go buy your ticket, You look for the 194 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 4: lowest one, see if it works, and you buy it. 195 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 4: And so when you introduce some of these two to 196 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:25,199 Speaker 4: four times costs for a commodity product, you suddenly create 197 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 4: uncertainty and it could really impact your revenue and create 198 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 4: these competitive distortions. We can't have that. So we've been 199 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 4: working with some of these climate leading corporations to really 200 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 4: help us finance that transition. And there's a great willingness 201 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 4: to do it. I mean, I give them a tremendous 202 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,199 Speaker 4: amount of credit. They've been out there working with us 203 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 4: to really put their money where their mouths are, and 204 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 4: they want to reduce their scope through emissions and their 205 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 4: greenhouse gas inventories, and they want to do and feel 206 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 4: proud and confident around the solutions they're backing, and so 207 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 4: they're willing to put dollars into things like sustainable aviation fuels. 208 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 4: The challenge for them right now is that it's a 209 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 4: bit of a fragment to market and they're kind of 210 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 4: trying to figure out how they can streamline those things. 211 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 4: But the willingness is there. The other example I'll give 212 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 4: you is that just last year, United introduced for our 213 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 4: leisure travelers, so takeout corporates, average traveler, you're going on vacation, 214 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 4: when you go through the booking path, you have the 215 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 4: ability now to contribute to sustainable aviation fuels that United 216 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 4: invests in. I was super dubious because you know, carbon offsets. 217 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 4: We had a program for a while, it didn't really work. 218 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 4: Nobody really cared, and I get it because there's a 219 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 4: lot of skepticism out there. But then we introduced this 220 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:39,679 Speaker 4: capacity around investing in staff supporting insect or reduction. We 221 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 4: had a whole host of communication activity with Oscar the Grouch, 222 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 4: our chief trash officer, explaining what is going on, why 223 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 4: are we talking about staff. Why is it important? And 224 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 4: I'll tell you. So, we've had this opportunity now for 225 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:56,479 Speaker 4: customers about twelve months, one hundred and fifty thousand customers 226 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 4: and about a half million dollars. Doesn't sound like a 227 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 4: live It's not really about the numbers themselves. It's about 228 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 4: the engagement of customers and trying to educate them about 229 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 4: the right solutions. It's working, and so I don't know 230 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 4: if that converts long term into sort of tacking stuff 231 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 4: onto tickets. I assure you my CFO wants nothing to 232 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 4: do with that, but it does show there's a more 233 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 4: there's a greater sophistication and appreciation for doing the right thing, 234 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 4: in particular for these hard to abate industries like aviation. 235 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:26,959 Speaker 4: And that's really exciting. 236 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 2: That's super cool. 237 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 3: And I'm kind of curious your thoughts on that. Sounds 238 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 3: like the carbon Offsets program maybe wasn't as successful. But 239 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 3: why do you think customers are more willing to opt 240 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 3: into this sustainbleviation fund or feels fund? 241 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 2: Then? 242 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, so United launched a sustainable flight fund last year. 243 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 4: And let me just explain that for a minute, because 244 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 4: this is a bit of an un orthodox role that 245 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 4: United has played in financing our transition. We stood up 246 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 4: a venture fund maybe two three years ago, but last 247 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 4: year we kind of did a focus in unsustainable aviation fields. 248 00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 4: We were seeing that nobody, nobody was really put money 249 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 4: into and it was frustrating, so we went out and 250 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 4: created a fund and opened it up to other investors. 251 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 4: Today we have about twenty two investors, including United in 252 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 4: this fund. It's two hundred and thirty million dollars and 253 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 4: the fund reason just closed about two weeks ago. I 254 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 4: think what's interesting about that is on the twenty two investors, 255 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 4: we have the whole value chain, so it's anything from 256 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 4: Ge and Boeing and Saffran all the way to on 257 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 4: the other hand, corporates like BCG, Bank of America, Google 258 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 4: and are Peers. We have four airlines that basically raise 259 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 4: their hands and we want to be a part of 260 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 4: the United train and really figure out how to do 261 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 4: this right. So we have Air Canada, Air New Zealand, 262 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 4: Jet Blue and Hawaiian and we're working together to identify 263 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 4: what we believe are the technologies that are not only 264 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 4: novel and interesting in decarbonization, but as an operator, we 265 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 4: can uniquely look at and say can this scale, can 266 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,079 Speaker 4: bed this and how we actually run the airline? And 267 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 4: if the answer is yes, we go ahead and invest 268 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 4: in it. And so that's been a really amazing opportunity. 269 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 4: You heard earlier today from Moji, who's the CEO of 270 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 4: some Vita that's one of our investment companies. They essentially 271 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 4: take a microbe and synthetically bioengineer it and crack it 272 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 4: open with some crisper. I don't know. It's fascinating, but 273 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 4: it's a feedstock play that allows us to actually address 274 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 4: a constraint in the market today. High integrity feedstock, low 275 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 4: CI everyone benefits, no land use issues. And so these 276 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 4: kinds of innovations are coming forward now, thanks in great 277 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 4: part to the Inflation Reduction Act, and it's really exciting. 278 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 4: And so we've really stepped in not just purchasing the fuel, 279 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 4: but working upstream to help finance some of these companies 280 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 4: that are innovating around producing the fuel or a component 281 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 4: of the fuel. 282 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's super cool. 283 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 3: I mean it's also great to hear that other airlines 284 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 3: are joining you. I think that's a testament to know 285 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 3: the direction you guys are had, and that's that's really awesome. 286 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 2: Do you mind. 287 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 3: You kind of touched on it a little bit on 288 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 3: kind of some of the barriers are trying to overcome, 289 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 3: but really, can you explain a little bit more of 290 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 3: what's the objective of this fund, what you guys are 291 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 3: trying to achieve, and maybe are there any companies you're 292 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 3: super excited about. 293 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 4: Oh, there's tons of companies I'm super excited about. So 294 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 4: I think there's maybe eight or ten investments currently in 295 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 4: the fund. Some of them are what I talked about before, 296 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 4: the power to liquid, so capturing CO two and converting 297 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 4: it into a jet fuel of the future. Some of 298 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 4: them are like Sivita, where they're really focused on that 299 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 4: feedstock and creating a high integrity lipid. Just the other week, 300 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 4: I tried butter created from one of these you know, 301 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 4: created genetically created lipids. That was so fascinating. But you know, 302 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 4: Butter's a lipid lipids we need for fuels. It's complementary 303 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 4: upstream product. You know, how do we look at the 304 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 4: ecosystem to enable the transition for sustainable aviation fuels? And 305 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 4: so what's been interesting about it and hearing the dialogue today, 306 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 4: you know, for us to succeed in aviation we're sort 307 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 4: of this niche, smaller market, lots of planes, but not 308 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 4: a super big industry. But for us to succeed, we 309 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 4: need abundant renewable power that's cost effective. We need green 310 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 4: hydrogen everywhere, we need some of these technologies like electrolyizers 311 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 4: to really really work, and not like these little intibity ones, 312 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 4: but like big and so we're thinking about how do 313 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 4: we put all those component parts together to eventually allow 314 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 4: us to be successful downstream when the market's mature to 315 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 4: go to aviation. And so it's really again going back 316 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 4: to this whole theme of ecosystem, how do we work 317 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 4: the ecosystem to allow us to do decarbonize aviation once 318 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 4: we get the right formula to incentivize investment in our space. 319 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm really glad you've brought in the investment piece 320 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 3: of it, because I think you guys have been really 321 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 3: crucial to kind of coming up with more creative ways 322 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 3: around investing in newer technologies. So, I mean, from your 323 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 3: point of view, like, how do we need to change 324 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 3: our way of thinking around investing in these projects in 325 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 3: order to I guess see this industry scale. Do you 326 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 3: think we need to kind of readdress the model here 327 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 3: or what needs to change. 328 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 4: I mean, if you can answer that question, please, that's 329 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 4: the question. So what we're seeing right now and this 330 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 4: is these are just my observations. There's a lot of 331 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:22,199 Speaker 4: interest in new climate tech. There's so much going on 332 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 4: in sort of finding different ways to solution for industries 333 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 4: like ours and all the other industries that need to transition, 334 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 4: super interesting, lots of venture capital out there. Money is flowing, 335 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 4: But what is not happening is going from that demonstration 336 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 4: in the lab let me show you a cool project 337 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 4: to the ten million gallon plant that I need to 338 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 4: actually prove to Wall Street that they should put their 339 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 4: billions in to make me the foreign quarter billion that 340 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 4: I need a fuel. So there's kind of like this 341 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 4: stalling that's happening in the sort of the moving from 342 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 4: pilot to demonstration. And I get it because it's super expensive. 343 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 4: I mean, that ten million gallon plant isn't cheap anywhere 344 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 4: from five hundred million to a billion dollars. You don't 345 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 4: want to put that kind of capital for that little 346 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 4: product that comes out, and by the way, it's competing 347 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:11,360 Speaker 4: with the commodity product. So that to me really fundamentally 348 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,159 Speaker 4: goes back to policy I mentioned before. The Inflation Reduction 349 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 4: Act really changed the whole paradigm around innovation. It's really 350 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 4: not though, addressing sort of driving capital for long term 351 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 4: sustainable shifts in aviation, unlike some of these other credits. 352 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 4: You know, we talked about hydrogen sustainable aviation fuel had 353 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 4: a tax credit for two years, not ten, And now 354 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 4: we move to this next clean fuels production credit for 355 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 4: I think it's three years, not ten. And so in 356 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 4: terms of creating curiosity around aviation, it's there. But in 357 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 4: terms of de risking and making our industry more bankable 358 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 4: and making the financial institutions come to the table and say, yeah, 359 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 4: I have confidence and I feel like I can really 360 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,640 Speaker 4: make a return in this mark it, it's not there. 361 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 4: And so that's really fundamentally what I spend my day 362 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 4: solving for is talking to policymakers, talking to banks, talking 363 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 4: to investors, and saying, how do we put this puzzle 364 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 4: together in a way that it allows us to all succeed. 365 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's super helpful, And I'm glad you mentioned the 366 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,120 Speaker 3: IRA and the policy piece there, And I think it's 367 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 3: a lot of times we kind of compare and contrast 368 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 3: the EU to the US on you know, they're going 369 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,360 Speaker 3: more demand side, and I'm curious, from the airline's point 370 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,440 Speaker 3: of view, what do you think is the best model 371 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:33,880 Speaker 3: in terms of growing and incentivizing demand and kind of 372 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 3: creating that certainty for the market. Is it more kind 373 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 3: of the production tax credit type model or is it 374 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 3: having more mandates to really ensure airlines buy that. 375 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. 376 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 4: I texted my friends in Europe and they have IRA envy, 377 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:52,199 Speaker 4: which is kind of fun. But they're also buying up 378 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 4: all the SAFF. So in terms of who's getting the 379 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 4: SAFF now, it's the people with the mandate. So that's 380 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 4: a conundrum that we've got to figure out. My point 381 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 4: of view is market based incentives do work right now. 382 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 4: We need a space to allow the smart people to 383 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 4: innovate because we didn't have the solutions before, or at 384 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 4: least the diversity of solutions that are really going to 385 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 4: make a difference for aviation, and that's happening now. I 386 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 4: do think we can sort of shift the policy suite 387 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 4: to allow that durability, that long term confidence that's missing 388 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:30,159 Speaker 4: for real capital and I'm talking like project finance type stuff, 389 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 4: infra stuff to come to sustainable aviation fuels. But while 390 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 4: we're waiting for that to happen, all of these component parts, 391 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 4: the hydrogen, the greening of the grid, and all these 392 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 4: transition component that is happening, and so we are dependent 393 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 4: on all of that, as I mentioned before, and so 394 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 4: until that happens, there's not really a play for sustainable 395 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 4: aviation fuels quite yet. What I like to see and 396 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 4: where United sits in terms of policy advocacy is that 397 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 4: we are performance based in our advocacy, meaning if you 398 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 4: can allow the policy incentives to encourage greater reductions over time, 399 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 4: so the lower CI, the lower the reduction, the better 400 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 4: the incentive you get. Then you allow the market to 401 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 4: sort of solve what innovations, what technologies are actually going 402 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 4: to thrive and can be economical. You know, you hear 403 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:25,360 Speaker 4: a lot about some of these other pathways that maybe 404 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 4: maybe are sort of smaller conversion technologies. You hear about 405 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 4: coprocessing and whatnot. Those are fine, but they shouldn't get 406 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 4: the same incentive as maybe, you know, the power to 407 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 4: liquid that is actually a true sustainable aviation fuel of 408 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 4: the future, and that's going to transform the way we fly. 409 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 4: So if there's a way that we can actually build 410 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 4: a policy suite that allows sort of this graduated performance 411 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 4: based approach to incentivize the higher integrity solutions but then 412 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 4: also enable more pragmatic entrance. That's great. That's that's where 413 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,160 Speaker 4: we sit. So that's our view on what I'd love 414 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 4: to see happen with policy, but we're certainly not there yet. 415 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 3: I'd love to kind of zoom out a little bit 416 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 3: and not just talk about SAF because, as you mentioned 417 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 3: in your intro, SAF is a piece of the puzzle, 418 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 3: but there's a whole suite of other opportunities out there, 419 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 3: freet modernization, net zero aircraft, operational efficiencies. So can you 420 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 3: talk a little bit about I know United has made 421 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 3: some purchases and investment in like hybrid aircraft. I'd love 422 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 3: to hear thoughts around zero aircraft? Is that under hyped, overhyped? 423 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 3: Where are we going with that? Is that something you 424 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 3: guys are actively. 425 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 4: I mean, is there anything cooler than electric vertical takeoff 426 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 4: and landing? 427 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 2: Sounds pretty fun to me. 428 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 4: I would love to go get in an EV call 429 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 4: after this and go to the airport to avoid all 430 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 4: that traffic in Houston because it's gnarly. But what's cool 431 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:41,199 Speaker 4: about some of these new technologies that are coming on 432 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 4: with alternative propulsion is that it is allowing industries like 433 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 4: ours to provide a different service. And I kind of 434 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 4: hinted to that in the beginning. Suddenly we're extending our 435 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 4: experience with the customer. And if there was a helipad 436 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 4: outside and I could get on an EV tall and 437 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 4: I could fly to the IH for the same price 438 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 4: as an uber XL low CA one hundred percent, I 439 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 4: would do that. And that's sort of the vision of 440 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 4: the future. There's a lot of uncertainty around how we're 441 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 4: going to get there, but it's not insurmountable. And what 442 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 4: I mean by uncertainty, you know, you've got to be 443 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 4: certified by the FA to operate, and the safety issues 444 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 4: there you need to negotiate again the ecosystem of the airspace. 445 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 4: We need to figure out where we're going to build 446 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 4: the infrastructure. And I'm not just talking about the helipad 447 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 4: or vertiport. I'm actually talking about the electrical infrastructure where 448 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 4: you're going to charge these things. That's a big, big deal. 449 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,919 Speaker 4: I mean, part of my portfolio is the ground equipment 450 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 4: at the airports and converting those from diesel to electric. 451 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 4: I can't even get enough charge to convert our fleet 452 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,679 Speaker 4: of ground equipment, so talk to me about electric aircraft. 453 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 4: So there's some of these really really practical hurdles that 454 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 4: we need to overcome, and all of those things are 455 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 4: being negotiated with the States and the airport authorities to 456 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 4: make sure that we're considering and building toward. But it's 457 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 4: going to take some time. 458 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 3: It sounds like it's kind of the inverse problem with 459 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 3: SAFA is dropped in you don't need a lot of 460 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 3: infrastructure change, but feedstock limited with high ydrogen electricity, it's 461 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,160 Speaker 3: a matter of infrastructure, can you get the fuel there? 462 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 3: Do you have the ability to fill up? 463 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 4: That is true. There is some infrastructure required for staff too, 464 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 4: but it's not nearly as complicated. It's more like blending 465 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,199 Speaker 4: tanks and whatever, and so those are those are lesser 466 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,640 Speaker 4: of a hurdle, but still one super cool. 467 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 3: We're getting close to times. I want to I want 468 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 3: to ask one or two more questions. But in general, 469 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 3: when you think about your zero trajectory, what keeps you 470 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 3: up at night in terms of not meeting that goal? 471 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 2: What are you what are you most concerned about? 472 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 4: Well, that's a bit of a loaded question. I am 473 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 4: concerned about perfect being the enemy of the good. There's 474 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 4: a lot of progress that can be made, but there's 475 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 4: almost an intolerance for good, and we need to figure 476 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,880 Speaker 4: out a way to celebrate good and then continue towards 477 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 4: great Today, you know, the greenwashing claims, the regulations around 478 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 4: what you can and cannot say. Everything's now going in 479 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,360 Speaker 4: our ten k. I mean, there's just transparency everywhere, which 480 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 4: I fully support. I think it's really important to be 481 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 4: clear about what's going on, but not at you know, 482 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 4: not by causing inertia to happen in spaces where we 483 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,919 Speaker 4: just need fast innovation today and then we need to 484 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 4: scale today. And so that's that I think will settle out. 485 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 4: I'm not worried about that in the long term, but 486 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 4: immediately it suddenly becomes what was voluntary ambition is now 487 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 4: becoming sort of corporate risk, which is just stupid. 488 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, and kind of final question of the day is 489 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 3: you have the last say, which I think is great. 490 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 3: I want to hear your thoughts on You have a 491 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 3: room full of investors, policymakers, energy producers. What's your ask 492 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 3: of them? What can they do to help move this 493 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 3: industry along? 494 00:25:55,640 --> 00:26:01,360 Speaker 4: I love that question. We need creative finals dancing solutions, 495 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 4: We need creative financing solutions. And what I mean by 496 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 4: that is that in a four percent margin, I'm eyes 497 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 4: wide open about how United is adopting staff compared to 498 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 4: my peers, and we are we adopting too fast or 499 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 4: too slow? And how do we make sure that there's 500 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 4: parity and costs because we are such a super price 501 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 4: sensitive industry that actually shouldn't be a barrier, and that 502 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 4: shouldn't be how we're thinking about building a marketplace for 503 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 4: something that doesn't exist, and the only way to address 504 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 4: that is creative financing. And that's a lot policy. But 505 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 4: then it's a lot you know, the financial institutions coming 506 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 4: to the table and helping us sort of share risks, 507 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 4: spread that out, figure out mechanisms that allow us to 508 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 4: actually step into this space materially without asking me to 509 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 4: sign a ten year off take agreement, which I'm not 510 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,640 Speaker 4: going to do. So we need to continue to sort 511 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 4: of nudge and push and shape what is a bit 512 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 4: of a different approach for financing for industries like mine 513 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 4: that needs a transition. And I think we're going to 514 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 4: get there, and I'm really excited about that, so thank 515 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 4: you to all of you out there. They're going to 516 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 4: open up your check book after this conversation. 517 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 2: I think that's a great note to end on. Lauren, 518 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 2: thank you so much. 519 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 4: Pleasure. 520 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: Switched On is produced by Cam Gray with production assistance 521 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: from Kamala Shelling and Lushi Carunarete. Bloomberg NIF is a 522 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: service provided by Bloomberg Finance LP and its affiliates. This 523 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 1: recording does not constitute, nor should it be construed, as investment, 524 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,679 Speaker 1: a vice, investment recommendations, or a recommendation as to an 525 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 1: investment or other strategy. Bloomberg ANIF should not be considered 526 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: as information sufficient upon which to base an investment decision. 527 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: Neither Bloomberg Finance LP nor any of its affiliates makes 528 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: any representation or warranty as to the accuracy or completeness 529 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: of the information contained in this recording, and any liability 530 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: as a result of this recording is expressly disclaimed.