Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.
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Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent
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Speaker 1: dot com. Good morning, everybody, Happy Tuesday. Have an amazing
Speaker 1: show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal Seed.
Speaker 3: We do. So.
Speaker 2: They found the alleged CEO killer. They got them, Yeah,
Speaker 2: and very interesting and elaborate online history. We'll get into
Speaker 2: that and how he was located. A lot of really
Speaker 2: interesting details about him and his background, so we'll get
Speaker 2: into all of that. Also, he was found with a manifesto.
Speaker 2: We've only gotten little bits and pieces of that, but
Speaker 2: we'll tell you what we know. It's kind of basically
Speaker 2: what you would expect his motivation would be in this killing.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 2: We also have some updates for you about Defense Secretary
Speaker 2: nominee Pete Hegseth looking more now like he may make it.
Speaker 2: He had a meeting with Joni Ernst. She seems more favorable.
Speaker 2: She was one of the previous holdouts, so we'll break
Speaker 2: that down for you as well. We also have a
Speaker 2: verdict in the Daniel Penny case. He was the man
Speaker 2: who was on a New York subway. There was a
Speaker 2: mentally ill man, Jordan Neely, who was sort of menacing passengers,
Speaker 2: puts him in a choke hold. Jordan Neely ends up dying,
Speaker 2: so that we have a verdict in that case. Will
Speaker 2: break all of that down for a very fraud issue
Speaker 2: and a lot of feelings on both sides of the
Speaker 2: equation with that one. Also a story that I've been
Speaker 2: wanting to cover because it is an important international story
Speaker 2: but also has potentially important implications.
Speaker 3: For US here as well.
Speaker 2: Presidential election completely annulled in the country of Romania due
Speaker 2: to TikTok misinformation, supposed foreign actor intervening. Really troubling what
Speaker 2: is unfolding. They're regardless of how you feel about the
Speaker 2: candidates involved, and like I said, some potential implications here
Speaker 2: as well, So break that down for you. Sager is
Speaker 2: delivering his anti online sports gambling opus. He wanted to
Speaker 2: make sure I was very specific, not anti gambling in general,
Speaker 2: just online sports betting. Yes, I know a lot of
Speaker 2: thought and work went into this one.
Speaker 1: Three thousand words. I don't know how long it's going
Speaker 1: to take to record. It could take a while, so
Speaker 1: everybody gear up. I will be posting it everywhere. I
Speaker 1: want people to spread the word. Ever since I started
Speaker 1: posting about this, I have been getting some of the
Speaker 1: most heartfelt and horrifying messages from a lot of women,
Speaker 1: in particular whose husbands have been gambling away their savings.
Speaker 1: They feel like they can't say anything. So this is
Speaker 1: for the women out there. This is what I'm doing.
Speaker 2: I will say this is an issue where I have
Speaker 2: sort of conflicting feelings and my mind is not settled
Speaker 2: or made up.
Speaker 3: So I'm looking forward to I think.
Speaker 1: I think I don't think a reasonable person could watch
Speaker 1: this and defend the practice, because I will go anyway,
Speaker 1: you'll watch it, but it's systemic. So we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about the problem. We're going to talk about the justifications.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about philosophy behind why it was
Speaker 1: legalized in the first place, the law specifically, but I
Speaker 1: think the most convincing part that I hope to have
Speaker 1: is the business practices themselves and why if they are
Speaker 1: regulated and made to be fair, they literally cannot operate.
Speaker 1: The only way that they can turn a profit is
Speaker 1: by exploiting addicts, and specifically by banning people who win.
Speaker 1: So if you think it's fair, it's a bullshit game.
Speaker 1: It's completely rigged, and that's something that I really hope
Speaker 1: people will so.
Speaker 2: Interestingly enough, both of our monologues are about capitalists exploiting addicts.
Speaker 2: So I'm taking a deep dive into our healthcare system
Speaker 2: through the lens of this chain of Method owned clinics
Speaker 2: and the way that they have abused their patients for profit,
Speaker 2: and what this says more broadly about our healthcare system. Obviously,
Speaker 2: massive conversation sparked by the killing of that healthcare CEO,
Speaker 2: so break that down for you as well before we
Speaker 2: jump into the show, though, I do have and ask
Speaker 2: for you guys, for those of you who are interested,
Speaker 2: this is something that Ryan has been really championing as well.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you all remember the Palestinian poet
Speaker 2: Rafad A Laier who was killed by the IDF just
Speaker 2: over a year ago. One of his poems, which is
Speaker 2: titled if I Must Die, really went quite viral, a
Speaker 2: lot of people sharing it because it was basically a
Speaker 2: letter to his daughter for the event in which he
Speaker 2: was killed, and of course he was killed. I actually
Speaker 2: read it on the show. I don't know if you
Speaker 2: guys recall. In any case, his book of poetry is
Speaker 2: being re released today and there is a real grassroots
Speaker 2: push to try to get this book of poetry onto
Speaker 2: bestseller lists, including the New York Times bestseller list. Actually
Speaker 2: just got a text from Ryan this morning. He says
Speaker 2: he spoke to the publisher. I'll just read you his text.
Speaker 2: Talk to the publisher. They've already received nearly ten thousand
Speaker 2: pre orders, which is fantastic. Normally that would be enough
Speaker 2: to make the bestseller list, but not during Christmas, so
Speaker 2: we need a few thousand more. So if you were
Speaker 2: interested in supporting this cause and elevating the cause of
Speaker 2: the Palestinian people, this would be a fantastic way to
Speaker 2: do it by purchasing his book of poetry, including if
Speaker 2: I must diagain, this has re fought all areer. So
Speaker 2: thank you all very much for those of you who participate.
Speaker 1: There you go, and thank you all premium subscribers Breakingpoints
Speaker 1: dot com if you want more content. We got big plans.
Speaker 1: We had a big meeting yesterday. We've got to think
Speaker 1: people are going to be really excited. Okay, So with
Speaker 1: all of that, let's get to the news. Let's go
Speaker 1: ahead and put the video on the screens. Twenty six
Speaker 1: year old Maryland and or Hawaii man Luigi Mangioni was
Speaker 1: taken into custody yesterday in Altoona, Pennsylvania, after a worker
Speaker 1: at McDonald's recognized him from the wanted pictures that were
Speaker 1: put out by New York City Police and by the media,
Speaker 1: and so police were called. This is the official chain
Speaker 1: of events, at least for what we know right now.
Speaker 1: To the McDonald's, they cornered Luigi Mangioni. They asked him
Speaker 1: for identification. He presented to them the same identification false
Speaker 1: identification New Jersey ID that he had given to the
Speaker 1: New York City hostel that he had stayed in previously.
Speaker 1: They also started his bag found multiple false identities IDs
Speaker 1: as well. As the US passport, two thousand dollars in
Speaker 1: foreign currency, eight thousand dollars in United States currency, and
Speaker 1: a quote unquote ghost gun. A ghost gun is one
Speaker 1: of those. It's hard to explain exactly the basic way
Speaker 1: to say, it's like a three D printed weapon, which
Speaker 1: makes it more untraceable. There's been a lot of controversy
Speaker 1: around it from the ATF and others, and it is
Speaker 1: very popular in kind of crypto right wing circles. I
Speaker 1: actually met the founder of ghosta It was an interesting dude.
Speaker 1: My point though, is that that was a signal, at
Speaker 1: least a little bit for me in the beginning. I'm
Speaker 1: like this, this guy's online, and to say that he's
Speaker 1: online is actually a little bit of an understatement. Let's
Speaker 1: go and put his mugshot that was there up on
Speaker 1: the screen. Pennsylvania Police released this mugshot of Luigi Mangioni.
Speaker 1: He has now officially been charged with murder in the
Speaker 1: City of New York, as well as false identification and
Speaker 1: having false property, so he will be extraduided on assuming there.
Speaker 1: His entire background is kind of fascinating and it obviously
Speaker 1: it will tell the story as we continue to get
Speaker 1: it but this is the valedictorian of a very prestigious
Speaker 1: Baltimore prep school. He earned his bachelor's and master's degrees
Speaker 1: at the University of Pennsylvania. He served as head counselor
Speaker 1: at a pre college program at Stanford University. His family
Speaker 1: is actually quite wealthy and well known in the Baltimore area.
Speaker 1: Some of his relatives cousins or even state legislators in
Speaker 1: the state of Maryland. His family seems to be some
Speaker 1: sort of like country club tycoons who are known, yeah, area,
Speaker 1: and quite wealthy, actually well selves.
Speaker 3: And not only so.
Speaker 2: My understanding is this is reported by the New York
Speaker 2: Times as well as some online salutes there. The source
Speaker 2: of their fortune originally comes from a chain of nursing homes,
Speaker 2: which could end up being relevant given that his purportive
Speaker 2: motive here was anger at the healthcare industry. So put
Speaker 2: that out there. And then with that wealth, Yeah, they
Speaker 2: purchased a number of country clubs. This is a very wealthy,
Speaker 2: well known Baltimore family. He goes to this forty thousand
Speaker 2: dollars a year prep school, goes off to Ivy League school,
Speaker 2: same one as Donald Trump. You know, lots of very
Speaker 2: highly esteemed individuals that have gone there, studies, computer science,
Speaker 2: you know, everyone who's in contact with him basically says,
Speaker 2: this is a bright kid, you know, very popular, like
Speaker 2: seems like he has everything going for him. And then
Speaker 2: there seems to be a turning point in his story
Speaker 2: when he suffers a some sort of horrific back insurch.
Speaker 1: It seems to have played him for a while. But
Speaker 1: they get back surgery, right, he may We don't know
Speaker 1: if he got the surgery or not. That hasn't yet
Speaker 1: we confirmed.
Speaker 2: Well, some of his people who knew him, who were
Speaker 2: friends with him along the way, did confirm that he
Speaker 2: had some sort of back surgery. We could put this
Speaker 2: up on the screen. This is from his Twitter bio
Speaker 2: and that the banner that has that is at the top.
Speaker 3: So we've got a Pokemon.
Speaker 2: Situation the middle screen there that's an X right potentially
Speaker 2: of his back that you see all these pins and
Speaker 2: hardwar where that would be indicative of some sort of
Speaker 2: either you know, horrific injury or degenerative condition. You also
Speaker 2: see him showing off his well muscled physique. They're hiking
Speaker 2: in some beautiful mountains, potentially in Hawaii where he lives
Speaker 2: for quite a while, but the acquaintances who've spoken to
Speaker 2: the press and friends who've spoken to the press, and
Speaker 2: his social media footprint also indicate that he has this
Speaker 2: back surgery. If you look at his Goodreads list, he's
Speaker 2: looking at all of this literature about how to deal
Speaker 2: with back pain and how to rehab your back, et cetera.
Speaker 2: He sort of he drops completely off the map in
Speaker 2: terms of his friend's family, et cetera. If you go
Speaker 2: through a social media profile, you've literally got a friend
Speaker 2: who's like, Dude, you're supposed to be in my wedding,
Speaker 2: and I can't get in touch with you, Like I
Speaker 2: need to know what's going on if I can rely
Speaker 2: on You've got these other messages that are like where
Speaker 2: are you? Worried about you, Like no one's heard from you,
Speaker 2: And so he seems to have you know this, this
Speaker 2: seems to have been, according to the people around him,
Speaker 2: what really triggered a turn for him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, his mother reported and missing actually just last month
Speaker 1: in November, so his family didn't know where he was.
Speaker 1: They were reaching out to his high school friends trying
Speaker 1: to figure some of this out. You know, obviously, we're
Speaker 1: just trying to piece all this stuff together. We don't
Speaker 1: have one hundred percent knowledge. The NYPD did give a
Speaker 1: press conference with some of the details. Let's take a
Speaker 1: listen to that.
Speaker 4: Earlier this morning, in Altuna, Pennsylvania, members of the Altuna
Speaker 4: Police Department arrested Luigi Mangioni, a twenty six year old
Speaker 4: mail on firearms charges. At this time, he is believed
Speaker 4: to be our person of interest in the brazen targeted
Speaker 4: murder of Brian Thompson, CEO of United Healthcare last Wednesday
Speaker 4: in Midtown, Manhattan. The suspect was in a McDonald's and
Speaker 4: was recognized by an employee, who then.
Speaker 1: Called local police.
Speaker 4: Responding officers questioned the suspect, who was acting suspiciously and
Speaker 4: was carrying multiple fraudgelant IDs as well as a US passport.
Speaker 4: Upon further investigation, officers recovered a firearm on his person,
Speaker 4: as well as a suppressor, both consistent with the weapon
Speaker 4: used in the murder. They also recovered clothing, including a
Speaker 4: mask consistent with those worn by our wanted individual. Also
Speaker 4: recovered was a fraudulent New Jersey ID, matching the ID
Speaker 4: our suspect used to check into his New York City
Speaker 4: hostel before the shooting.
Speaker 1: Incident.
Speaker 4: Additionally, officers recovered a handwritten document that speaks to both
Speaker 4: his motivation and mindset.
Speaker 1: All right, so that's what we know so far. He
Speaker 1: did have a very prolific online presence to which we
Speaker 1: can gleam a little bit. Let's go and put a
Speaker 1: six pleas up on the screen, and this fits with
Speaker 1: the back pain. It appears that from his Goodreads profile,
Speaker 1: Goodreads is kind of like a social network for being
Speaker 1: able to rate and review books, that he had a
Speaker 1: couple of books here he had David Goggins's Can't Hurt Me.
Speaker 1: But here's the indication he has to quit. The book
Speaker 1: called quote crooked outwitting the back pain industry and getting
Speaker 1: on the road to recovery, Grit, the Power of Passion
Speaker 1: and Perseverance, and back Mechanic by doctor Stuart McGill. All
Speaker 1: of those give us a clue, and combined with some
Speaker 1: of the testimony that he had given to many of
Speaker 1: his friends who when he was living in Hawaii, who
Speaker 1: all report him having some horrific back problems for after
Speaker 1: surfing and others where he'd be bedridden and he was
Speaker 1: personally having a real crisis with it. Then though, as
Speaker 1: we move on in good Reads, you get to start
Speaker 1: a little bit of who is gentleman? Yes, his journey,
Speaker 1: shall we say, And there was some uncle Ted love.
Speaker 1: Let's go and put this up there on the screen
Speaker 1: good Reads. He reviews Ted Kaczynski the Unibomber uncle Ted
Speaker 1: is a joke. By the way, it's an online thing
Speaker 1: where he says it gives it four stars as if
Speaker 1: he could do better, which is hilarious. And he says
Speaker 1: when all other forms of communications fail, violence is necessary
Speaker 1: to survive. You may not you may not like his methods,
Speaker 1: but to see things from his perspective, it's not terrorism,
Speaker 1: it's war and its revolution. If you've never written read
Speaker 1: the Unibomber manifesto, it is quite something.
Speaker 3: We'd a monologue here, Yeah, I think it did. Manifesto.
Speaker 3: I can't remember why it was relevant.
Speaker 1: But Tucker had talked about it. Maybe that's why. Maybe
Speaker 1: you know Volume one is interesting. Volume two, Adam starts
Speaker 1: to go.
Speaker 2: It had a moment to because Blake Masters was into
Speaker 2: it as well, which all. What was the plot twist
Speaker 2: here is that based on the online footprint, we don't
Speaker 2: know what this gentleman has been up to for the
Speaker 2: past six months. His politics are much more sober than me,
Speaker 2: which is kind of hilarious.
Speaker 1: Amber I have a description of him. I think the
Speaker 1: best description is secular, right wing, ANARCO, anti capitalist, and honestly,
Speaker 1: that is about as good as you're going to get
Speaker 1: for this person. For example, I tweeted immediately when I
Speaker 1: reviewed his profile, Here's what I said. I said, A
Speaker 1: quick perusal of the CEO killing suspect indicates some when
Speaker 1: plugged into online health tech discourse with right wing sensibilities
Speaker 1: about the collapse of religion in the United States and
Speaker 1: why immigration won't solve Japan's problems. This is going to
Speaker 1: be an interesting one. It does appear that MANGIONI spent
Speaker 1: some time in Japan. Let's go and put an eight
Speaker 1: to eight up there on the screen. This one is
Speaker 1: personally hilarious to me.
Speaker 2: The Songer parallels were a little weird because this Japan
Speaker 2: visit and then he was nuclear.
Speaker 1: Post your Power. He's an Andrew Huberman fan. He likes
Speaker 1: Chris Williamson. I have a lot of it's honestly scary.
Speaker 1: I have a lot in common with this dude. A
Speaker 1: lot of the good Reads books, some of them are cringe.
Speaker 1: Some of them are actually quite good. So here's what
Speaker 1: he tweets. Leave this up here. Modern Japanese urban environment
Speaker 1: is an evolutionary mismatch for the human animal. The solution
Speaker 1: to falling birth dates, he meant birth rates is in immigration.
Speaker 1: It's cultural encourage natural human interaction, sex, physical fitness, and spirituality.
Speaker 1: Ban fleshlights and other custom porn star pockets being sold
Speaker 1: in don Quixote g tree stores. That is such a
Speaker 1: japan post for everybody who has been there. Replaced. Conveyor
Speaker 1: belt sushi and restaurant vending machine ordering with actual human
Speaker 1: interaction replaced twenty four to seven E sports cafes where
Speaker 1: young males earn false fitness signals via tech in fighting
Speaker 1: and Overwatch shooting games with athletics in schools heavily stigmatized
Speaker 1: made cafes. My analysis was, quote it appears the United
Speaker 1: States United CEO Healthcare CEO killing suspects spent some time
Speaker 1: in Japan and had some thoughts about how to quote
Speaker 1: unquote return their society. I said, I think there's a
Speaker 1: non zero chance he was inspired by gaikoku Joe style assassinations.
Speaker 2: You don't also see like jd Vance posting something very
Speaker 2: similar to.
Speaker 1: This, Let's keep going because the parallels here again to
Speaker 1: my own sensibilities, is shocking. Let's go to the next one.
Speaker 1: Here he says he got into a back and forth
Speaker 1: with someone. But he says Tucker is spot on in
Speaker 1: recognizing modern architecture kills the spirit. But his very first
Speaker 1: line postmodern architecture is designed to demoralize and hurt you,
Speaker 1: paints the phenomenon is intentional in the same way that
Speaker 1: inflation is not intelligently designed to oppress people. Neither is
Speaker 1: modern architecture. It is emergent. Yes, it is oppressive, but
Speaker 1: that's a fallout of selective pressures to build fast and cheap,
Speaker 1: irrespective of esthetics. So for those who are very online
Speaker 1: like myself, we've got some architecture posting. We've got a
Speaker 1: clear aesthetic worship somebody who himself. I mean, if you
Speaker 1: look at him, what he's got to be in the
Speaker 1: top one percent of American male physiques. Good.
Speaker 3: You're saying, Look, he's a good looking guy.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he was running tests or any
Speaker 1: of these others, but if that's natural, I mean, that's
Speaker 1: pretty damn good. You gotta give it to him. So
Speaker 1: he was into health. He was into obviously clean eating
Speaker 1: if you also look at some of his posts. But
Speaker 1: I think the obvious demarcation point was this was a
Speaker 1: guy who had everything going for him. Obviously very high
Speaker 1: IQ individual. He gets to go to these IIV of
Speaker 1: the schools master's computer science, even actually in the Peter
Speaker 1: Science department. He was part of some fraternities and others,
Speaker 1: which indicate that he had very high grades, which this
Speaker 1: is a very very difficult field, okay for people who
Speaker 1: are in this. He had prestigious internships for I think
Speaker 1: he was fixing bugs in one of the civilized games.
Speaker 1: Yeah something, so, I mean, look, it's a prototype in
Speaker 1: some ways an extremely quote unquote normy individual, but also
Speaker 1: mean very.
Speaker 2: Very burning the Trump pipeline vibes. Yeah, in my opinion.
Speaker 1: Apparently, according to the police, he had quote unquote anti
Speaker 1: capitalist sentiments, and that's what some people are seizing on.
Speaker 1: But it's I think, maybe there's something wrong with me,
Speaker 1: because I perfectly understand this guy.
Speaker 2: That's the thing people keep saying, like, oh, politics are
Speaker 2: so incomprehensible, And maybe it's because I do the show
Speaker 2: with you and because i'm you know, waste you online
Speaker 2: or whatever. I'm like, what are you talking about? His
Speaker 2: politics are completely like, the type is very readily apparent
Speaker 2: if you're you know, if you're in, if you're online,
Speaker 2: if you know these personalities whatever. Now, again, I do
Speaker 2: think it's worth saying all of this social media profile
Speaker 2: we're talking about it drops off six months ago. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's right, and that's you know, when he goes off
Speaker 2: the grid, loses touch with all his or cuts communication
Speaker 2: with all of his friends and family as best as
Speaker 2: we know, And so we don't know what sort of
Speaker 2: intellectual or political ideological journey he was on during that
Speaker 2: time peria that led him to take this extreme act.
Speaker 2: So I do want to put that caveat out there.
Speaker 2: That'sant the other thing that I want to say, just like,
Speaker 2: on a personal level, we don't know exactly what the
Speaker 2: motivation was. They have not yet released the manifesto, which,
Speaker 2: by the way, they really should release the manifesto.
Speaker 1: They're so like, it's only two hundred and sixty two words.
Speaker 2: Clifvenstein is on the case with this one, pushing them
Speaker 2: because the idea that we can't handle the truth of
Speaker 2: what he was putting out there is to complete bullshit.
Speaker 2: I hope that the whole thing comes down so that
Speaker 2: you can read it. There is something that is circulating
Speaker 2: online that is allegedly the man of but I don't
Speaker 2: think that it actually is the There are some quotes
Speaker 2: that the media has circulated calling the the health insurance industry,
Speaker 2: calling them quote unquote parasites, taking responsibility for this action,
Speaker 2: saying he acted alone, that he's self funded, and apologizing
Speaker 2: for the harm and the chaos that he caused. Was
Speaker 2: saying that it was a necessary action. Those things don't
Speaker 2: appear in the manifesto that's allegedly circulating online, so I
Speaker 2: don't think it's the right one. But you know, in
Speaker 2: any case, we don't know exactly what triggered this extreme response.
Speaker 3: I will just.
Speaker 2: Say I suffer with back pain for two years. I'm
Speaker 2: sure it was based on that X ray. I'm sure
Speaker 2: it was nothing like what he was suffering. That kind
Speaker 2: of chronic pain will drive you sort of insane. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's it is debilitating, and it's ever present, and there's
Speaker 2: you know, especially with certain types of like nerve pain,
Speaker 2: there's really no relief from it whatsoever. One of the
Speaker 2: an acquaintance in Hawaii that spoke with the New York
Speaker 2: Times said that he had also expressed that he wasn't
Speaker 2: able to be like physically intimate because of the extent
Speaker 2: of this injury, So that may really have been the
Speaker 2: kind of you know, trigger and pivot point that led
Speaker 2: him down this down the spot.
Speaker 1: There's also a lot of indications that he was into
Speaker 1: psychedelics and to marijuana. For For example, he says drug
Speaker 1: abuse is not a fair criteria. The most intelligent, open
Speaker 1: minded individuals I know manipulate and push the buttons of
Speaker 1: their psyche via specific drugs. Drug abuse should distinguish between
Speaker 1: psilocybin marijuana from addictive soul.
Speaker 3: Suckers, like a very like tech kind of.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can spot this guy coming from a
Speaker 1: mile away, a lot of Michael polland psychedelic books.
Speaker 2: He was really into that Tim Urban, the woke mind
Speaker 2: virus that we had tim on.
Speaker 3: We talked to him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Lookvid, He's was like Peter Teel Andrew Huberman Guid's.
Speaker 3: Kind of he was reposting elon Muss.
Speaker 1: Look, you could see a scenario where somebody who is
Speaker 1: driven crazy by chronic pain begins like heavily abusing psychedelics
Speaker 1: and marijuana and go and basically has a complete psychotic break.
Speaker 1: If you don't believe me, Alex Bearnson wrote a whole
Speaker 1: great book called Tell Your Children about Psychosis induced or
Speaker 1: marijuana induced psychosis or how it can actually trigger something.
Speaker 1: By the way, despite all of the widespread, you know,
Speaker 1: psychedelic stuff, one of the things that people in the
Speaker 1: quote unquote psycho Nott community will tell you is if
Speaker 1: you are predisposed to, you know, to mental illness, you
Speaker 1: shouldn't do it so you could easily see I mean,
Speaker 1: all the telltale signs of a psychotic breaker there. Right,
Speaker 1: You basically have somebody on the precipice, very high IQ individual,
Speaker 1: somebody who's dealing with a life changing and pressuring situation
Speaker 1: that is like a slow burn, including pain, and then
Speaker 1: you know, you reach this possibly you already have some
Speaker 1: previous problems, and then six months you drop. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's crazy to drop off the grid. Your family doesn't
Speaker 1: know where you are, You're dropping out of friends' weddings,
Speaker 1: You're like gallivanting between Hawaii and the United States. And
Speaker 1: then obviously you meticulously plan here and prepare for the
Speaker 1: assassination of a high profile CEO. So what get some
Speaker 1: details about it.
Speaker 2: I will say though, that I don't think that it's
Speaker 2: possible there was a psychotic break.
Speaker 3: I think that's entirely possible.
Speaker 2: I think it's also possible that there wasn't that he
Speaker 2: there was a you know, an ideology driving this that
Speaker 2: was sort of an ends justify the means ideology where
Speaker 2: he spun himself up into believing that, you know, by
Speaker 2: killing this person, potentially he was saving more lives, and
Speaker 2: so this sort of like you know, utilitarian calculus.
Speaker 1: You could see it with the I mean, look, that's
Speaker 1: why the thing about Ted Kasinski, one of the biggest
Speaker 1: arguments about it is like was he crazy or not.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, yeah, you kind of do have to
Speaker 1: be crazy when you kill like X number of people.
Speaker 1: But it's also extremely well argued and highly rational. I
Speaker 1: don't see this these two things it's mutually exclusive.
Speaker 2: Well, you're Japanese fascist, dude, I mean, was he crazy?
Speaker 3: She might have you know, the anarchist in the early.
Speaker 2: Nineteen Fingreds who were you know, potentially bombing Wall Street
Speaker 2: and committing those sorts of violence with here and around
Speaker 2: the world. It wasn't that they were insane, it was
Speaker 2: that they were ideological extremists that believed that violence would
Speaker 2: lead to some greater good. Right, that's not a philosophy
Speaker 2: I subscribe to you. I don't think that that's correct.
Speaker 2: I think it's proven wrong over time, but I don't
Speaker 2: think it requires you to be crazy, you know, to
Speaker 2: engage in that sort of ideological philosophizing that convinces you
Speaker 2: that this is actually the correct and more.
Speaker 1: Absolutely so, you could see that in Kazinski. You were
Speaker 1: just talking about Yukyomishima as well as somebody who long
Speaker 1: planned this thing. You can see his own ideological evolution
Speaker 1: until he eventually committed sepuku in the nineteen seventies and
Speaker 1: his like attempted Japanese takeover. Yeah, so clearly the signs
Speaker 1: were all there. And well, actually, I'm curious to see
Speaker 1: whether he pleads insanity defense or not, because if he
Speaker 1: doesn't and he talks about it this way, he really
Speaker 1: will have like some sort of technictostally, it's going to
Speaker 1: be a style thing on our hands.
Speaker 2: The other thing that I did want to point out
Speaker 2: before we move on is just to go back to
Speaker 2: the way that he was found. So he was apparently
Speaker 2: riding a Greyhound bus through Pennsylvania, they stop at this
Speaker 2: McDonald's for everybody to get off and have lunch. Some
Speaker 2: elderly patron there reportedly recognizes how from the police photos
Speaker 2: and calls in a tip. The police come and that's
Speaker 2: how he's apprehended. Now the police say they were surprised
Speaker 2: that they found him. They didn't know a name, they
Speaker 2: didn't know where he was. All of their fancy surveillance,
Speaker 2: I mean, the only thing you could say it was like,
Speaker 2: actually the hotel security camera, yeh, that's right, that picture
Speaker 2: that probably was sufficient for someone to be able to
Speaker 2: recognize him. But all of their multi billion dollar tech
Speaker 2: and police force, et cetera, et cetera had nothing to
Speaker 2: do with catching him. So yesterday on the show when
Speaker 2: we were like, he may well get away with it
Speaker 2: if it wasn't for I don't know why he's still
Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania. Like if he had hopped on a plane
Speaker 2: and was out of the country, he would have I
Speaker 2: think gotten away.
Speaker 1: Part of the issue talking about high IQ individual highly rational.
Speaker 1: It's like, bro, what are you doing with all this cash?
Speaker 1: The gun?
Speaker 2: The manifestana McDonald's Pennsylvania, which is not all that far
Speaker 2: from New York City, Like why are you, at least
Speaker 2: not in Canada.
Speaker 1: Very like maybe he was trying to maybe want the
Speaker 1: people to want.
Speaker 2: To say, you know, some people said maybe he did
Speaker 2: want to get caught because you still you have a manifesto,
Speaker 2: you have all this cash, you have what is that
Speaker 2: it's called like a far day bag or something day
Speaker 2: bag that.
Speaker 3: Like blocks cells blocks like sales services service.
Speaker 2: He had that he had the murder weapon with, like
Speaker 2: he had dished your backpack with the monopoly money in
Speaker 2: Central Park. Why didn't you ditch the murder weapon there?
Speaker 2: So there are some indications that potentially at least some
Speaker 2: part of him and wanted to be apprehended.
Speaker 1: Why did you give it a false ID? You don't
Speaker 1: ever go a false ID to the PD, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't know that it's fake, so right, and they
Speaker 1: if they didn't have his name, you just give me
Speaker 1: a real ID, they'd be like, okay, sir, thanks mister
Speaker 1: mind right.
Speaker 2: Because the fake ID matched up with the fake IDA
Speaker 2: that he used at the hospital, will allow them to
Speaker 2: connect the adult shots immediately.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So anyway, there's a there's a lot of weird stuff
Speaker 1: from the story.
Speaker 2: But it is it is noteworthy to me and also
Speaker 2: I was proven correct that Eric Adams was lying out
Speaker 2: of his ass when he claimed that they knew the name,
Speaker 2: which I guessed that they did not, And the police
Speaker 2: confirmed that they had no idea where he was, They
Speaker 2: had no idea who he was. They even all these
Speaker 2: many days later, did not even have a name to
Speaker 2: put to him. And it's only because of this, like
Speaker 2: elderly McDonald's patron, that they apprehend I.
Speaker 1: Mean, yeah, I mean, in some respects the crime totally
Speaker 1: comport with some like one thirty five IQ software engineer,
Speaker 1: and in some you're like, dude, you're an idiot, you know,
Speaker 1: for doing a lot of this stuff. But you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes there is the duality I guess of all of this. Regardless,
Speaker 1: it's going to be a big trial. My god, certainly
Speaker 1: something when we see all this. He's already he's got
Speaker 1: quite a bit of an online fan base. I hear
Speaker 1: in the gay community there.
Speaker 2: Is I think in all sorts of community.
Speaker 1: Luigi as in particular love him Free.
Speaker 2: Luigi was trending online. There was a lot of a
Speaker 2: lot of sopranos memes flying because of his strong Italian
Speaker 2: heritage and appearance.
Speaker 1: So you know, well, you know, at a certain point,
Speaker 1: maybe maybe those will revived some nineteen twenties discussions about immigration.
Speaker 1: I've already seen some jokes that are about there, which
Speaker 1: are pretty good. Let's all be honest. Let's all be honest.
Speaker 3: If the killer was on importing the Dago anything is.
Speaker 1: What I would really take away from this is that
Speaker 1: if you are not online, I don't recommend it, but
Speaker 1: you're going to have a very difficult time understanding this case.
Speaker 1: You really will. True and uh so, and because of
Speaker 1: how important quote unquote being online and online politics and
Speaker 1: all that was to Donald Trump's victory eventually winning the
Speaker 1: popular vote, maybe you should get online because at this
Speaker 1: point online is reality. I don't know another way to
Speaker 1: put it. While we're walking in the assassinations, you know,
Speaker 1: the presidential election, I mean, even jd Vance, we could
Speaker 1: be honest. I mean, in some respects, he's the most
Speaker 1: successful poster in the world. He went from a author
Speaker 1: from Yale working.
Speaker 3: I had Hillbilly ego.
Speaker 1: I think he only gave it three point five stars,
Speaker 1: which you know, I think I think it's a little insulting.
Speaker 1: I mean, what the industrial.
Speaker 3: I got Lorax got five on five.
Speaker 1: Which Lox got five out of five.
Speaker 3: He was a great anti capital this that's.
Speaker 1: My other thing. Luis g. You need better taste than
Speaker 1: Brooks Broke. You know, you got a lot of time.
Speaker 1: I'm on your hands. Now it's time to move past
Speaker 1: Mark Manson's you know, what is it? How to stop
Speaker 1: giving a fuck or whatever. Let's get some deeper stuff
Speaker 1: you got. You're probably gonna spend the next thirty forty
Speaker 1: years of your life in prison, so you're going to
Speaker 1: need to level up your good breed's list. Anyway, we
Speaker 1: will continue to follow the case. It's fascinating stuff, it
Speaker 1: really is.
Speaker 2: Indeed, many twists and turns already, Okay, speaking twists and turns,
Speaker 2: let's get to the nomination of Pete Heggsath for Secretary
Speaker 2: of Defense was looking like that confirmation process was on
Speaker 2: the rocks after a bunch of reporting about his you know,
Speaker 2: personal life and the rape allegations coming.
Speaker 3: Out of California.
Speaker 2: But one of the key holdouts, Senator Jonie Ernst, seems
Speaker 2: to have been brought around.
Speaker 3: Let's go and put this up on the screen.
Speaker 2: So she had a meeting with Pete Heggsath on Monday,
Speaker 2: and afterwards she put out a statement she said, I
Speaker 2: appreciate Pete Heggsath's responsiveness and respect for the process. Following
Speaker 2: our encouraging conversations, Pete committed to completing a full audit
Speaker 2: of the Pentagon, selecting a senior official who will uphold
Speaker 2: the roles and values of our servicemen and women, because
Speaker 2: heg Seth had previously written he did not support women
Speaker 2: in combat role, so that part was noteworthy. Based on
Speaker 2: quality and standards, quotas, and who will prioritize and strengthen
Speaker 2: my work to prevent sexual assault within the ranks. As
Speaker 2: I support Pete through this process, I look forward to
Speaker 2: a fair hearing based on truth, not anonymous sources. She said, So,
Speaker 2: you know, that's very significant because part of what is
Speaker 2: going on with Joni Ernst here is I think a
Speaker 2: genuine concern about you know, some of the allegations against
Speaker 2: Pete Hegss A genuine concern because she herself is a
Speaker 2: military veteran and she also is herself a sexual assault survivor.
Speaker 2: So I think there was some genuine concern there. But
Speaker 2: also part of what's going on is that Joni Ernst
Speaker 2: was also a potential candidate for the lot, So you
Speaker 2: know there was a little self interested motives.
Speaker 1: There more lou real concern or politician who wants a
Speaker 1: level up. It can be both, yeah, sometimes me both.
Speaker 2: Again, this is someone who serves the country and who
Speaker 2: herself is a survivor, and I'm sure wants to see
Speaker 2: other women be able to continue to serve in some
Speaker 2: of the roles that she did, et cetera. Anyway, it
Speaker 2: looks like, due to partly a massive online right wing
Speaker 2: bullying campaign against her, she has capitulated and is now
Speaker 2: saying that it looks likely she will support him.
Speaker 3: Yea, that was a big barrier for him.
Speaker 2: You know, I still think, you know, he may lose,
Speaker 2: Like I don't think Collins and Murkowski have committed to
Speaker 2: supporting him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's got he got fifty three. He only
Speaker 1: needs fifty exactly.
Speaker 2: And so that was why Jony Earns in particular was
Speaker 2: such a key.
Speaker 1: Well, apparently Lindsey Graham also considered joining Journey Ernest in
Speaker 1: opposing him. He doesn't like peak headset for a number
Speaker 1: of reasons. And look, I mean, I think it'll be interesting.
Speaker 1: Actually we can put the next one up there on
Speaker 1: the screen quote unquote Ron who how Trump allies brought
Speaker 1: Hegseth back from the brink. I read through this this morning,
Speaker 1: actually totally makes sense. Basically, what happened is that after Gates,
Speaker 1: they got tell it's a huge blow. They see Jony
Speaker 1: Ernst here and the Senate trying to muscle and make
Speaker 1: sure that they can stand up and actually support some independence.
Speaker 1: And then really what happened is both a behind the
Speaker 1: scenes and a front facing campaign to go after Journey
Speaker 1: Ernst because she's up for election in two years, and
Speaker 1: make it known that if she were to sink Pete
Speaker 1: Heads's nomination, she was going to face problems in her primary.
Speaker 1: She was going to face a kind of a maga revolt,
Speaker 1: both online donations, but politically and professionally. Her life would
Speaker 1: have been very difficult. So what they decided is that
Speaker 1: they need to make a stand on Hegseeth because I
Speaker 1: think Heg Seth was also very different than Gates. Gates,
Speaker 1: it appears at at least four or five different no
Speaker 1: votes that were against him, Hexith only has one. She
Speaker 1: really only had to flip one person.
Speaker 2: I mean, Gates had a lot of He had worked
Speaker 2: with these people and they knew him personally and disliked him.
Speaker 3: Pete didn't have that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, so there wasn't this like personal animus
Speaker 2: against him that was animating some of the I think makid.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And also, I mean Pete Hegsat actually is
Speaker 1: a is a warrior in the MAGA kind of online
Speaker 1: circles in a way that Gates is. But then he
Speaker 1: didn't have the same baggage that the Congress. The Congress
Speaker 1: was carrying with Matt Gates. Matt Gates also, you know, look,
Speaker 1: Pete Heggsath may have one accuser or whatever. Matt Gates
Speaker 1: got a whole ethics thing that would have happened, he
Speaker 1: would have to go through an FBI background check. I mean,
Speaker 1: that was a whole other level of salaciousness and of
Speaker 1: scandal that could have followed him for a while. I
Speaker 1: think that those two things were the really what sunk
Speaker 1: him with Hesat. I mean, look, you know, it's like
Speaker 1: you can believe him or not, but at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, it's like one person, you know that
Speaker 1: we're talking about here in terms of the settlement and
Speaker 1: in some of the even the drinking allegations, Like again,
Speaker 1: I'm just not going to take it seriously from some
Speaker 1: people who are blasted all the time. That doesn't mean
Speaker 1: I can don't his behavior. You shouldn't drink alcohol, especially
Speaker 1: if you're in very high positions of power. But you know,
Speaker 1: it's like again to be tit tutted by senators who
Speaker 1: was some of whom I know personally and have seen
Speaker 1: him get pits drunk, and Capitol Hill reporters. It's just
Speaker 1: so aggravating to me. But anyways, the real thing is
Speaker 1: that with heg Seth, they decided to make a stand
Speaker 1: because they know that it's not just about he Seth
Speaker 1: at this point. If they capitulate there, then that means
Speaker 1: that Tulsi Gabbard RFK Junior are now in trouble. So
Speaker 1: what's interesting is if you saw Joni Ernest tweets out
Speaker 1: a photo just yesterday of her meeting with Tulsi Gabbard
Speaker 1: right just being like okay, basically a piece you know,
Speaker 1: with the with the process. Another one was Cash Pattel
Speaker 1: because they're a little bit worried about him because of
Speaker 1: the people on the Judiciary Committee, people like John Cornyn
Speaker 1: and others who were on the fence about what exactly
Speaker 1: was going to happen. So I feel like relatively confident.
Speaker 1: I'll give him a sixty five seventy percent shot. They'll
Speaker 1: probably eventually get confirmation. Something else could come out. It's
Speaker 1: certainly possible, but at this point they decided to make
Speaker 1: a stand, and so it does look like Pete hegg
Speaker 1: Seth has a decent enough chance to become the next
Speaker 1: Secretary of Defense.
Speaker 2: So I think it's been fair to report on all
Speaker 2: the leg personal stuff, especially in the sensitive a role.
Speaker 2: You worry about blackmail, you worry about what else could
Speaker 2: come out, et cetera. So I'm not saying that that's illegitimate.
Speaker 2: But Michael Tracy's been making a very good point about this,
Speaker 2: which is all this focus on his drinking and his
Speaker 2: love life and all these things has either distracted or
Speaker 2: just the media is not really that interested in what
Speaker 2: his actual ideology is. And so Michael Tracy, as he does,
Speaker 2: has been digging deeply into things he said over the
Speaker 2: years about, you know, his supposed positioning as a quote
Speaker 2: unquote recovering Neocon. When this evolution happened, is it legit?
Speaker 3: Et cetera.
Speaker 2: And I really recommend couput this piece up on the screen.
Speaker 2: I really recommend this piece to you because Michael Tracy
Speaker 2: listened to his speeches, read his books, watch his podcast
Speaker 2: appearances to try to track his actual evolution if he
Speaker 2: has indeed engaged in some sort of an evolution, because
Speaker 2: he's sort of painted as this, you know, america first revolutionary,
Speaker 2: who's going to have this completely different ideology and position
Speaker 2: the American military and you know, potentially sort of rolled
Speaker 2: back American Empire. It's utter and there isn't a lot
Speaker 2: to really base that on. He was he came to
Speaker 2: prominence for his Iraq War advocacy. He was, you know,
Speaker 2: a leader of groups that their whole mission was to
Speaker 2: promote candidates who continued to back the Iraq War. He
Speaker 2: you know, in the Ukraine War, continued to support this.
Speaker 2: Like his position was Joe Biden was not being hawkish
Speaker 2: enough visa the Ukraine. Now again these are positions that
Speaker 2: he's switched on. But I also think it's important, as
Speaker 2: you've said before, Sager, like Okay, after the fact, after
Speaker 2: consensus congeals and it's safe, It's one thing to oppose
Speaker 2: the wars. It's another thing to have opposed these wars
Speaker 2: when it was difficult and when it was unpopular, and
Speaker 2: when it perhaps went against the grain of your party
Speaker 2: and your peers. There's no record of that with Pete Hegseth.
Speaker 2: The other thing is, even with regard to Iraq, it's
Speaker 2: hard to pinned down when he actually decided that he
Speaker 2: was against the Iraq War, and judging by the public record,
Speaker 2: his conversion on the issue came after people like Jeb Bush,
Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton, certainly even John McCain who you know, at
Speaker 2: the end of his life decided like, you know, this
Speaker 2: doesn't didn't really go all that well. Apparently, according to
Speaker 2: Tracy Hegsas in a podcast appearance last month with Sean Ryan,
Speaker 2: was that should we have been in Iraq at that point?
Speaker 2: He replied, I was a huge proponent of it at
Speaker 2: the time, but in retrospect, absolutely not. I've been a
Speaker 2: recovering Neokon for six years now, So if you do
Speaker 2: the maths from twenty twenty four to six years prior,
Speaker 2: that would be roughly twenty eighteen, being generous that he
Speaker 2: had this final evolution with regard to the Iraq War.
Speaker 2: So all of that is to say, just in terms
Speaker 2: of the ideology, he has kind of the vibes and
Speaker 2: the brand as some sort of revolutionary is going to
Speaker 2: have this very different approach, and I think there's a
Speaker 2: lot of reason for skepticism about that when he had
Speaker 2: taken the neocon position even up to and including the
Speaker 2: Ukraine War.
Speaker 1: Yeah, look, I like Pxseth. I think he's an ideological warrior.
Speaker 1: I think the case for Hegseeth is kind of the
Speaker 1: way that you would look at any opportunistic politician who
Speaker 1: wants to be on the right side of an issue
Speaker 1: when he may not necessarily get there originally, and he
Speaker 1: may do what is quote unquote in vogue at the time,
Speaker 1: but if it's the popular consensus, he will be there.
Speaker 1: And because of his television presenting skills, it's actually very
Speaker 1: skilled at being able to switch positions and making not
Speaker 1: seem all that incongruent. I don't think he has a
Speaker 1: real ideology on national event. And look, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: be kind here, but the truth is is, like the
Speaker 1: guy seems to be a bit of a follower right
Speaker 1: on a rock on Ukraine on everything kind of gets
Speaker 1: dragged where the base is and all that. It doesn't
Speaker 1: seem to have any like hardcore convictions. The only real
Speaker 1: hardcore convictions he has are general orientation that the Pentagon
Speaker 1: and the War Department itself no longer fight wars in
Speaker 1: a way that we are able to win. I'm fine
Speaker 1: with that as long as that here's a orientation we
Speaker 1: can get you to the right place. You know, just
Speaker 1: listen to some of the good folks. Jd. Vance is
Speaker 1: very supportive of him, at least in terms of some
Speaker 1: of the discussions that they have had. So if Pete
Speaker 1: Hexeth does become the sat Deaf, I think there are
Speaker 1: a couple of things that we're going to see. One
Speaker 1: is he will not be quote unquote pushing his own agenda.
Speaker 1: That's very different than what I think Margaret Rubio is
Speaker 1: going to do or Mike Waltz are going to do.
Speaker 1: These are actual ideologically these are ideological neo cons who
Speaker 1: have really not changed a lot of their position and
Speaker 1: who will take orders from Donald Trump. But a lot
Speaker 1: of the other stuff in the interagency process that is
Speaker 1: going to be very much of their discression under a
Speaker 1: Pete Hexeth. I don't think that that's the case. I
Speaker 1: think that will be very much like he's going to be.
Speaker 1: He's going to do whatever he's told to do. I'm
Speaker 1: fine with that. The other thing that I think Pete
Speaker 1: Hexeth will go after which I support again is the
Speaker 1: entire military bureaucracy which he has long been at war with,
Speaker 1: specifically the three in the four star general class, who
Speaker 1: are basically just HR bureaucrats. Now at this point, this
Speaker 1: relates and has overlap with DEI, but is still very
Speaker 1: important for people to understand because it's way bigger than that.
Speaker 1: We're talking about. Basically an elevation of Lloyd Austin is
Speaker 1: the prototypical person who rises in the United States military
Speaker 1: at this point. This person was a Sentcom commander under
Speaker 1: the Syrian Rebels program and admitted a complete failure and
Speaker 1: the funding of al Qaeda. He is then given the
Speaker 1: job because he's black basically to become the Secretary of
Speaker 1: Defense Donald by Joe Biden, and then does nothing for
Speaker 1: four years. Has America been very successful militarily as the
Speaker 1: Pentagon become more ready for war since under his leadership.
Speaker 1: Absolutely not. You know, if anything, you actually see a
Speaker 1: lot of morale figures in the military. Recruitment is way down.
Speaker 1: A lot of the reasons are because of obesity, but
Speaker 1: a lot of the people don't want to join anymore.
Speaker 1: You have a crisis of patriotism, a crisis of recruitment.
Speaker 1: Morale apparently amongst the rank and file is terrible, has
Speaker 1: been for four years. A lot of that had to
Speaker 1: do with COVID. I think Pete will be the most
Speaker 1: popular sect def with rank and file members in like
Speaker 1: a generation. It's been years since you had anybody who
Speaker 1: maybe maybe Mattis initially but of course later on turned
Speaker 1: a little bit against Trump. I think he will be
Speaker 1: truly beloved by a lot of the rank and file.
Speaker 1: And this is somebody who actually did fight. So it
Speaker 1: is interesting to watch people. And I saw an article
Speaker 1: about this, I think it was in the Journal. It
Speaker 1: was called like the Disgruntled Veterans, and it's people like JD. Tulcy,
Speaker 1: Gabbard and Pete Hegshath who have very idea. What the
Speaker 1: key is is that all of them fought at a
Speaker 1: lower level whenever they were basically entry in the military
Speaker 1: and formed a general orientation Neo Khan and all this
Speaker 1: other stuff is the wrong way with the way I
Speaker 1: would say it is feeling failed by your leaders. And
Speaker 1: that's why I think if you look at Pete's past,
Speaker 1: one of the reasons that Donald Trump wanted to pick
Speaker 1: him as the VA Secretary, was again because of his
Speaker 1: popularity with the rank and file. But don't forget this.
Speaker 1: He went to war for people like Eddie Gallagher and
Speaker 1: a few others who were accused and convicted wars under
Speaker 1: the UCM jay and basically got Donald Trump to issue
Speaker 1: them a pardon. And he's been somebody with the Concerned
Speaker 1: Veterans of America who has pushed a lot of act
Speaker 1: in about PTSD and others for people who have been
Speaker 1: deeply affected by their service. So to me, it's kind
Speaker 1: of like the It's kind of like Luis G. MANGIONI,
Speaker 1: because I guys swim in these circles. His political orientation
Speaker 1: makes total sense to me. But for Tracy and others,
Speaker 1: even like yourselves, look you should be skeptical. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: I think it's fair to say Pete is a very
Speaker 1: pro Israel in like a spiritual way. You got one
Speaker 1: of these tattoos, is like Jerusalem.
Speaker 2: He's like close to Huckabee in terms of his Israel views.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the way.
Speaker 2: Not only I mean he's this is not this is
Speaker 2: not a dove right, And sometimes this gets confused, And
Speaker 2: Tracy also argues, I agree with him, Like the term
Speaker 2: neocon has just become completely meaningless because I do think
Speaker 2: by any like reasonable definition of the term, Pete Hagseth
Speaker 2: would meet the definition. He very hawkish, he wants the
Speaker 2: military to you know, be he is not rolling back
Speaker 2: American power. There's no like instinct towards isolationism that exists
Speaker 2: or has ever been demonstrated to exist within him.
Speaker 3: So yeah, is he like you know, he's the.
Speaker 2: Type that will go on Fox News to talk about like, oh,
Speaker 2: the military is too woke and we got to get
Speaker 2: rid of these DEI programs and whatever. And I'm sure
Speaker 2: he will probably do some of that, and I'm sure
Speaker 2: that cultural conservatives will be happy with those efforts.
Speaker 3: But if you're expecting.
Speaker 2: Him to, you know, roll back our engagement in the
Speaker 2: Middle East, or not get us entangled in new wars
Speaker 2: in Asia or you know, visa via China and Taiwan,
Speaker 2: this is not the person to pin those hopes on.
Speaker 1: Maybe, I think again, I think the best case for
Speaker 1: Pete is just not all that ideological and it's just
Speaker 1: going to do whatever he needs to do, which I'm
Speaker 1: again I really think.
Speaker 2: I don't know the guy, but I will say that
Speaker 2: his whole career coming to prominence is like the thing
Speaker 2: that he fought most aggressively for for the largest Barber's
Speaker 2: career was the Iraq War, staying in the Iraq War,
Speaker 2: and his analysis of that as recently as twenty sixteen
Speaker 2: was like similar to the sort of like Vietnam Dead
Speaker 2: enders of we could have won that war if it
Speaker 2: hadn't been for the leadership class holding.
Speaker 3: Us back, blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: So that is you know, now he says he's opposed
Speaker 2: to it again, coming to that position later than people
Speaker 2: like Jeb Bush, But in terms of his instincts and
Speaker 2: his ideological inclination going into any of these conflicts, it's
Speaker 2: been in favor of them and wanting to be even
Speaker 2: more aggressively engaged in all of these.
Speaker 1: Various time I understand where Tracy and like, yeah, it
Speaker 1: probably drives people crazy to say, oh, these people are Look,
Speaker 1: anybody who thinks that there are some leftist howards in
Speaker 1: people in the White House, you're wrong, baby.
Speaker 2: But that is an isolationist instinct that is part and
Speaker 2: parcel of the Republican Party that is represented in some
Speaker 2: strains and has sometimes been signaled by Donald Trump himself.
Speaker 3: And this is not that. That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Look, as one of the people who's probably way more
Speaker 1: in that category, I have no like. Again, we have
Speaker 1: to estimate what our actual power is. Look at the
Speaker 1: elected and moneyed forces. Do you see anybody who is
Speaker 1: like that. The only quasi billionaire who holds views probably
Speaker 1: even close to what I would like to see is
Speaker 1: David Sachs. Okay, and guess what he is. He's the
Speaker 1: AI cryptos are he's getting involved with the Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: got nothing involved with this. David is a warrior. By
Speaker 1: the way, I love that dude. He's actually very ideologically
Speaker 1: consistent on these is. You can go watch my interview
Speaker 1: with him previously about Israel and Gaza. Actual courage for
Speaker 1: somebody on the right for actor say that, what yeah, hey, listen,
Speaker 1: I'm ready.
Speaker 2: I'd rather I would go to batting the crypto bubba.
Speaker 1: I would absolutely go to bat for David Sachs. But again,
Speaker 1: I have reality. He's the only guy who cut any
Speaker 1: checks to Donald Trump who has those views. Every what
Speaker 1: ninety nine percent of the other people who are cutting
Speaker 1: checks are way more like Miriam Addilson and all of this.
Speaker 2: Well, and this is This is where I appreciate you
Speaker 2: because you didn't engage in some of the delusional thinking
Speaker 2: that But I think a lot of people were convinced
Speaker 2: by this idea that Donald Trump is quote unquote anti war,
Speaker 2: and you just have to look realistically at the you know,
Speaker 2: the picks that he's put into place, and that agree
Speaker 2: was never true. It's not true now and Pete hag
Speaker 2: Set is no p emblem of like, you know, rolling
Speaker 2: back American involvement in any region in the world.
Speaker 1: The best case we could have under Donald Trump is
Speaker 1: that he used to comes to the instinct of just
Speaker 1: like kind of not getting involved in these things, and
Speaker 1: then we don't get sucked in. I've been encouraged right
Speaker 1: now by the tweets about Syria. That's good, right, let's
Speaker 1: stay out of it. Great. I agree, well, let's do
Speaker 1: the same thing when it comes to Iran. He said
Speaker 1: we don't want to see regime change in Iran. Wouldn't
Speaker 1: have hired Mike Waltz in Rocko Rubio if that was
Speaker 1: my position, But hey, he's the person who wants to
Speaker 1: be president. Will there be I don't give a damn
Speaker 1: if there's rhetorical bluster whatever. As long as we don't
Speaker 1: actually get into an actual conflict on China and Taiwan.
Speaker 1: He's actually said before, he's a direct quote. He's like,
Speaker 1: if China takes Taiwan, there's not a fucking thing that
Speaker 1: we can do about it. Direct quote apparently from Bob Woodward.
Speaker 1: So these are the things that he says in private
Speaker 1: and public. We'll see, we'll see what actually happens. I mean,
Speaker 1: and that's why. Yeah, I mean, I agree. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to mislead anybody and say, oh, definitely, it's one
Speaker 1: hundred percent, it's a lock. I saw the guy get
Speaker 1: rolled on Syria, on Afghanistan. I have full expectation that
Speaker 1: all of that could certainly happen. Again, I think there's
Speaker 1: a better chance than not. But I wouldn't tell anybody
Speaker 1: with certainty. I think again that the best case with
Speaker 1: heg seth here is look a lot of DII stuff.
Speaker 1: I know you don't care. I care how I want
Speaker 1: to be gone. I want the force to be ready
Speaker 1: to fight. I think it's a disgrace what happens with
Speaker 1: a lot of these plays.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's it's not that I don't care,
Speaker 2: it's just that I don't think it's that important, and
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 3: It's used as like.
Speaker 2: A lot of times, like the CFPB example is a
Speaker 2: good one with Mark injrieson going out and cloaking. What
Speaker 2: is like this, you know, pro oligarch agenda basically in
Speaker 2: cultural conservatism. I just think it can be used as
Speaker 2: a trojan horse for maintaining a status quo that Americans
Speaker 2: just dramatically voted against.
Speaker 3: So it's not that I because I.
Speaker 2: Think these programs are not only silly, I genuinely think
Speaker 2: they are destructive. The research shows they make people like
Speaker 2: more have more racial animosity. They have you know, fattened
Speaker 2: the wallets of a bunch of dishonest, like racist grifters.
Speaker 3: Basically, so I.
Speaker 2: Feel I do feel strongly about them. The reason that
Speaker 2: I roll my eyes when I hear people like had
Speaker 2: Sat or Mark Andresen or whatever using wokeness as a
Speaker 2: crutch on everything.
Speaker 3: I do feel like it can be used as.
Speaker 2: Sort of like a trojan horse to smuggle in lots
Speaker 2: of agenda items that are at times antithetical to what
Speaker 2: Trump has claimed to be about, and certainly antithetical to
Speaker 2: what people thought they were getting when they voted for him.
Speaker 3: That's what I would say.
Speaker 1: That fair enough, And again you know, with him, what
Speaker 1: I would like to say on what I think he
Speaker 1: is going to do is actually purge a lot of
Speaker 1: these HR bureaucrats from this place and actually restore it.
Speaker 1: And I mean we have a morale crisis already. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you guys don't want to have a draft, if
Speaker 1: we ever get into a major war, then we need
Speaker 1: to up recruitment. And right now it's a disaster.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that is like, I mean, who wants to
Speaker 2: sign up for some of the you know, like it's
Speaker 2: not like people a lot of people don't feel like
Speaker 2: the are the Ukraine conflict or certainly what's being done
Speaker 2: in gaz are like things that they feel proud to
Speaker 2: be involved in.
Speaker 1: It.
Speaker 2: Look now I mentioned Iraq and Afghanistan at this point,
Speaker 2: it's like, you.
Speaker 1: Know, I'm with you one hundred percent same in terms
Speaker 1: of procurement and a lot of these others. The way
Speaker 1: that we run you know, Lockheed and all this stuff,
Speaker 1: it is a nightmare. That's one of the things so expcting.
Speaker 1: If we could figure some of that out, I would
Speaker 1: be very happy, and the less people who are involved
Speaker 1: in the managerial class over at the Pentagon. The better
Speaker 1: off that we are. Been reading a lot about the
Speaker 1: Pacific War these days, and oh my god, I mean,
Speaker 1: when you read about the country that we used to
Speaker 1: be and the country are today, it's sickening. It's sickening
Speaker 1: what has happened here. So and at the very least,
Speaker 1: I do think at Pete Hexa has some of those instincts,
Speaker 1: and so I am happy that he's going to get confirmed.
Speaker 1: Definitely happier than having Ron DeSantis in there. I can
Speaker 1: tell you that. Let's move on to Daniel Penny. All right,
Speaker 1: So let's go ahead and put this up there on
Speaker 1: the screen. Daniel Penny was officially acquitted yesterday in the
Speaker 1: quote unquote subway choke hold death of Jordan Neely quote unquote,
Speaker 1: sparking applause and uproar in the New York City courtroom. So,
Speaker 1: for those of you who don't remember, Daniel Penny was
Speaker 1: a Marine veteran who was riding the subway in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three where he was involved in an incident where
Speaker 1: Jordan Neely, who was a homeless and mentally ill individual,
Speaker 1: was on the subway and was menacing and threatening fellow passengers.
Speaker 1: Penny and another passenger felt that they needed to restrain
Speaker 1: Neely because they thought that he was going to get violent,
Speaker 1: or I think he'd already participated in some violence when
Speaker 1: he was on the subway. Penny himself then argued that
Speaker 1: he was not liable for the voluntary manslaughter charge and
Speaker 1: then the criminally negligent manslaughter charge that was brought against
Speaker 1: him by New York City prosecutors. So for those again
Speaker 1: who don't remember, we have some video of the incident.
Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and play it.
Speaker 5: On all counts. On Friday, the judge overseeing dismissed the
Speaker 5: more severe charge of second degree manslaughter, which carried a
Speaker 5: fifteen year maximum sentence, after the jury was onlived Now
Speaker 5: cis Agistrict attorney have argued that Penny knew his actions
Speaker 5: could kill Neely, but continued to recognize his humanity. The
Speaker 5: medical examiner concluded that the chokehold likely choke hold did
Speaker 5: kill Neely.
Speaker 1: So, as you can see, this does also trace not
Speaker 1: only to that incident of what happened, but actually some
Speaker 1: of the background of this and you and I were
Speaker 1: talking a little bit about before this, but this is
Speaker 1: a systemic failure by the entire city of New York
Speaker 1: because Jordan Neely was one of the fifty most known
Speaker 1: people who quote unquote needed help and were at risk
Speaker 1: in the entire city of millions. He was well known
Speaker 1: to city administrators and to others. And in fact, there
Speaker 1: are a lot of people out there who are arguing, like, oh,
Speaker 1: he never should have been on the subway, he should
Speaker 1: have been in treatment and offered shelter. Well, don't forget.
Speaker 1: New York City actually did offer him treatment and did
Speaker 1: offer him shelter, and he voluntarily departed it. He clearly
Speaker 1: was a very at risk, mentally ill and disturbed individual
Speaker 1: who had previously been cited in violent incidents against innocent bystanders.
Speaker 1: So this was somebody who was menacing people on the
Speaker 1: train and who was put a lot of people in
Speaker 1: a very difficult position because not only do you have
Speaker 1: somebody who is like a mentally ill vagrant who was
Speaker 1: menacing there, but the city, who's had multiple opportunities and
Speaker 1: identified this person, never took him into custody for his
Speaker 1: own safety and the safety of others. And so just
Speaker 1: like in that chaos abhors a vacuum, and so what
Speaker 1: happened you have him who's on the train. He's menacing others,
Speaker 1: and then Penny and this other bystander get involved. Furthermore,
Speaker 1: what we found out in the trial crystal. Because people
Speaker 1: are blaming Penny for Neelie's death, Neely was alive. Whenever
Speaker 1: the paramedics and others involved arrived on the scene, they
Speaker 1: did not administer immediate treatment to him because they were
Speaker 1: afraid that he had HIV and so they were afraid
Speaker 1: of their own risk basically of taking care of him. Now, look,
Speaker 1: I think there probably are procedures and others that are
Speaker 1: in place for that, but when you put that all together,
Speaker 1: it is so obvious that charges never should have been
Speaker 1: brought here against Daniel Penny. And look, I understand this
Speaker 1: is sensitive. People are trying to to this hero, villain, etc. Instead,
Speaker 1: can we all just calm down and understand that this
Speaker 1: is genuinely like a major systemic failure and that when
Speaker 1: you put people Neely and Penny and all these other
Speaker 1: people in an impossible position, then shit's gonna happen. So instead,
Speaker 1: make sure that it doesn't happen. That's why we have governments.
Speaker 1: Why else do people in the City of New York
Speaker 1: pay forty five percent tax if not for something that
Speaker 1: is like this. So that is my kind of take
Speaker 1: on the studio.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my take is very similar, and maybe that's unsatisfying
Speaker 2: to people, But I just think the whole, the whole
Speaker 2: situation is such a tragedy. You know, the passenger shouldn't
Speaker 2: have been put in that position, right, And I don't
Speaker 2: think Daniel Penny wanted to kill Jordan Neil. I mean
Speaker 2: to me, that's kind of the core in terms of
Speaker 2: the legal case against him, is establishing that intent, Like
Speaker 2: did he did he have intent to kill his men?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: I think he thought he was doing the right thing. Now,
Speaker 2: I will say, watching the video like it is an
Speaker 2: awful thing to watch knowing that he ultimately dies, and
Speaker 2: you wish that, you know, the choke hold had been
Speaker 2: let up after you know, two minutes or three minutes,
Speaker 2: so that he had more of a chance to survive.
Speaker 2: I do think the paramedics, I mean, to not do
Speaker 2: that's your job. To not do your job is really
Speaker 2: quite negligent. But you know, I've been in situations where
Speaker 2: you have someone who was clearly mentally ill and it
Speaker 2: was not as menacing as you know, Jordan Neely reportedly
Speaker 2: was being like making direct threats.
Speaker 3: But it's it is a scary situation.
Speaker 2: It is a frightening situation because you just don't know
Speaker 2: what this person is going to do. And I have
Speaker 2: to rely also on the other passengers who were on
Speaker 2: the train who felt said that they felt really threatened. Now,
Speaker 2: I do think it's disturbing the language around Daniel Penney
Speaker 2: like he's a hero. I mean, he did take a
Speaker 2: man's life, whether he intended to or not. I just
Speaker 2: think your point is the most important one, saga that
Speaker 2: the whole situation is indicative of a massive system wide failure.
Speaker 2: I mean, Jordan Neely had a long record with the city,
Speaker 2: and by the way, the potential for violence was not
Speaker 2: a hypothetical one. He had previously been arrested for assault
Speaker 2: and he was, you know, out he was supposed to
Speaker 2: be receiving treatment, taking anti psychotic medication, and he you know,
Speaker 2: violent that agreement, and so that's why there was actually
Speaker 2: an arrest warrant out for him at that time. And
Speaker 2: so yeah, I think, just you know, I think I
Speaker 2: wish he was alive today. I think you should be
Speaker 2: alive today. I think those passengers that shouldn't have been
Speaker 2: put in that situation. I think Daniel Penny shouldn't have
Speaker 2: been put in that situation either, And I don't think
Speaker 2: that it makes anything better to throw Daniel Penny ultimately
Speaker 2: in prison. It doesn't change any of the systemic failures
Speaker 2: that led to this absolutely horrifying and tragic chain of events.
Speaker 1: Exactly, don't put people in this position. That's the whole point.
Speaker 1: And you know, that's why part of it was really
Speaker 1: terrifying too to see him get prosecuted, because you're just now,
Speaker 1: it's truly impossible. And I think about it all the time.
Speaker 1: You know, we live here in the city, and then
Speaker 1: you're in your car and somebody starts banging on the
Speaker 1: window or I mean literally at people almost individuals who
Speaker 1: will like block your car and not let you move,
Speaker 1: trying to extract money from you. What do you do?
Speaker 1: You can't do anything.
Speaker 3: I think it was I do disagree with you there.
Speaker 3: I think it was fair.
Speaker 2: I think it was a difficult enough case that it
Speaker 2: was fair to to file charges and to allow a
Speaker 2: jury of his peers to evaluate the evidence. And you know, ultimately,
Speaker 2: I think they based on the bulk of the evidence
Speaker 2: and their inability to you know, beyond a reasonable doubt
Speaker 2: come to the conclusion that he was guilty of I
Speaker 2: think the charge ultimate was manslaughter. That he was, and
Speaker 2: we can get to the way the judge handle was too.
Speaker 2: That's a motely but crazy too. But you know, I
Speaker 2: think it was a difficult enough case and there wasn't
Speaker 2: enough there that it was worth going through the process
Speaker 2: and having a jury of his peers evaluate the situation
Speaker 2: and come to a decision. I do think that that
Speaker 2: was probably the right process, and I also think that
Speaker 2: they probably came to the right outcome.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but see that's where the thing is, Like, this
Speaker 1: is a twenty six year old guy. Now you know
Speaker 1: he's got all these BLM activists who are calling for
Speaker 1: his assassination. What is he going to do for the
Speaker 1: rest of his life? You've got any written house. Basically,
Speaker 1: you have two choices. You can move to Idaho and
Speaker 1: hope you shave your head and hope.
Speaker 3: And nobody any conservative hero. So based out all kinds
Speaker 3: of job.
Speaker 1: Opportunities when they gave it. But that's what you don't
Speaker 1: want to be. They tried to interview him, he didn't
Speaker 1: say anything. They let his lures, he didn't want to
Speaker 1: be in this position. So yeah, they ruined his life.
Speaker 1: Look at rittenhouse. The guys like hawking. But that's us.
Speaker 2: Really because charges were pressed though that's because of the
Speaker 2: event itself. He was known, I mean, because they originally
Speaker 2: didn't press charges. Yeah, and he was you know, this
Speaker 2: already was a real lightning rod case. So in any case,
Speaker 2: I mean, I do think that this was a sort
Speaker 2: of vindication of going through the process. Just to give
Speaker 2: you guys, because we mentioned the judge and I do
Speaker 2: want to say this was like a little weird the
Speaker 2: way to play down. So he was he had two
Speaker 2: charges against him, and the jury deadlocked on the higher charge. Correct, yes,
Speaker 2: And so there was somebody who you know, couldn't decide
Speaker 2: and they deadlocked, and so the judge sent them home
Speaker 2: and then brought them back and said, let's drop that
Speaker 2: higher charge and now just deliberate on this lower charge.
Speaker 2: And on the lower charge they were able to come
Speaker 2: to the conclusion of not guilty. Now, you know, there
Speaker 2: was obviously a lot of social media reaction to the decision,
Speaker 2: and there was a lot of you know, conservative activism around.
Speaker 2: They were even you know, picking out which juror they
Speaker 2: thought was there was one that had two masks on
Speaker 2: there like that must be the guy that didn't want
Speaker 2: to find him not guilty whatever. So I'm sure these
Speaker 2: jurors probably saw a lot of the discussion online and
Speaker 2: actually conservatives were initially enraged that the judge had taken
Speaker 2: this course of action because they thought that the judge
Speaker 2: was pushing and this may have been the case, by
Speaker 2: the way, was pushing to get a guilty, a finding
Speaker 2: of guilty against Daniel Penny and then ultimately goes in
Speaker 2: the other direction. And who knows whether you know, jurors
Speaker 2: taking in that social media firestorm over the weekend impacted
Speaker 2: the way that they were viewing the facts and the evidence.
Speaker 2: But I do think it's fair to say, like the
Speaker 2: way that the judge annele is not like illegal or anything,
Speaker 2: but it does raise questions about whether they were able
Speaker 2: to maintain the impartiality that is the goal of these
Speaker 2: sorts of juries.
Speaker 1: And the situation is crazy because it was very obvious
Speaker 1: from the judge that he was trying to get them
Speaker 1: to just come to a conclusion on the secondary charge,
Speaker 1: and they were probably you know, apparently what happens is
Speaker 1: in these situations is like, well, we can't be deadlocked again.
Speaker 1: They're really pressing us for a decision. And let's say
Speaker 1: on the original one, at least some of the reporting
Speaker 1: I've seen, there were speculation that actually a majority wanted
Speaker 1: to find him not guilty on the higher charge, but
Speaker 1: there was like one holdout. Well, that person finally probably capitulated.
Speaker 1: I mean, but that's why this whole situation is crazy.
Speaker 1: Like why is the judge, you know, basically making this
Speaker 1: discretion to drop a charge you know from these prosecutors
Speaker 1: file the judge allows them to all in the context
Speaker 1: of resolution, right, And it's like, well, if the jury
Speaker 1: is deadlocked, and the jury's deadlocked, it happens all the time,
Speaker 1: you know, I is not. I think it's crazy the
Speaker 1: amount of power some of these judges have with the
Speaker 1: sentencing or with others. I learned some of this about
Speaker 1: the whole Menendez case when I was learning about that,
Speaker 1: and like, a judge can just be like, oh, your
Speaker 1: entire defense, which got you a mistrial last time, Nope,
Speaker 1: you know, that's out the window. And then you tell
Speaker 1: the jury like you have to narrowly consider based on this,
Speaker 1: you can't consider anything else, and then they have no
Speaker 1: choice but to vote guilty, which they didn't even want
Speaker 1: to do.
Speaker 2: I think I think it's complicated though, because the other
Speaker 2: the argument in the other direction is like, when you
Speaker 2: have these you know, mandatory minimums and three strikes rules
Speaker 2: and whatever, then even in situations where people will look
Speaker 2: at it and be like, you know, this is every
Speaker 2: case and every crime is very different, and so if
Speaker 2: you take all of the discretion out of the judge's hands,
Speaker 2: then you don't allow for any of that like variability
Speaker 2: and context and all of that to be factored in.
Speaker 2: So it is complicated. Like I can kind of see
Speaker 2: the case in both directions. But to your Pointzager, I
Speaker 2: mean one of the things egregious that I noted in
Speaker 2: terms of the power of these judges and how corrupting
Speaker 2: it could be. And also, by the way, so many
Speaker 2: these judges, when you talk about corporate cases and white
Speaker 2: collar crime, so many of them have conflicts of interest
Speaker 2: based on their you know whatever stockholdings and investments and
Speaker 2: their you know, spouses positions, et cetera. But putting that aside,
Speaker 2: the new Twitter terms of service require you to agree
Speaker 2: that if you have a beef with X, then you're
Speaker 2: going to go through arbitration in this one specific court
Speaker 2: in Texas that has been very favorable to Elon Musk
Speaker 2: and his interest and basically sees this as like, you know,
Speaker 2: his personal company court. So there is there is a
Speaker 2: problem with it, for sure, there is a problem with.
Speaker 1: That's and that's my point is that you know, judge,
Speaker 1: you know, it's literally known as judge shopping between the
Speaker 1: business context. So anyway, I don't know always when I
Speaker 1: come away from this, do you look at the systems
Speaker 1: that are in place? You look at the way that
Speaker 1: New York City basically failed, nearly failed Daniel Pennett, And really.
Speaker 3: The mental health piece is really the think.
Speaker 1: About this, now, how many people on the way You've
Speaker 1: been on the subway at probably five am, just like
Speaker 1: I have in the past. These are some hard working people, okay.
Speaker 1: These are people who are coming in our long commute
Speaker 1: to go clean office buildings and to be restaurant service
Speaker 1: or whatever so that when the suits show up that
Speaker 1: they can come in and get served. And then the
Speaker 1: same thing if you're on the subway at ten or
Speaker 1: eleven o'clock at night, Sure that some people were going
Speaker 1: out or whatever, but by and large, these are very
Speaker 1: very hard working folks. They pay a ton of taxes.
Speaker 1: Nobody wants to be on the train for an hour
Speaker 1: and all that. The very least you could probably guarantee
Speaker 1: them is some safety. And in the last several years,
Speaker 1: every time you go to New York, the explosion of
Speaker 1: just like mentally ill, vagrant violence and just presence is shocking.
Speaker 1: And it's one of those where you're paying more than anything.
Speaker 1: These people are being menaced on a daily basis, fear
Speaker 1: for their lives. It is not right and especially not
Speaker 1: right because the rich people all just leave, they move
Speaker 1: to New Jersey. Ubers, yeah, or and in uber right
Speaker 1: it can afford it. It's the janitors, the bartenders, all
Speaker 1: of the other people who are service workers in New York.
Speaker 1: Those are the people who stuff for They have no
Speaker 1: other option, and they're forced to pay more in tact
Speaker 1: and to have a subpar experience, especially as the train
Speaker 1: gets delayed in all this, and be menaced and not safe. Well,
Speaker 1: and it's just not.
Speaker 2: Right, and it's not right for them, and it's not
Speaker 2: right for the you know, the people who have basically
Speaker 2: been abandoned, you know, the Jordan Neelies of the world
Speaker 2: as well, and our mental health. I'm actually talking a
Speaker 2: little bit about those touch on it in my monologue today,
Speaker 2: But yeah, our mental health system is really quite atrocious
Speaker 2: and rife with abuse and neglect, and a lot of
Speaker 2: these psych words are for profit hospitals that are just
Speaker 2: you know, they don't want to deal with the most
Speaker 2: difficult cases. Certainly, I also do think that in some
Speaker 2: instances we've gone it's important that people with mental health
Speaker 2: issues obviously deserve human rights in autonomy, et cetera, but
Speaker 2: you also have to have the ability when you have
Speaker 2: someone who has a track record of being a danger
Speaker 2: to others, like Jordan Neely did have that you have
Speaker 2: the ability to detain them, even if it is against
Speaker 2: their will. And you know, I think that there was
Speaker 2: there was a move that went too far in the
Speaker 2: direction of not allowing those type of holds to occur.
Speaker 2: And you couple that with there just literally are not
Speaker 2: enough beds in psychiatric hospitals and the fact that you know,
Speaker 2: because we have such a terrible healthcare system, people are
Speaker 2: completely disconnected from any sort of medical attention or care,
Speaker 2: and all of these systemic issues just sort of, you know,
Speaker 2: came to a head in this absolutely horrific and tragic
Speaker 2: incident