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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of this show.

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Speaker 1: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 1: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 1: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free,

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Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 1: dot com. Good morning, everybody, Happy Tuesday. Have an amazing

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Speaker 1: show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal Seed.

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Speaker 3: We do. So.

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Speaker 2: They found the alleged CEO killer. They got them, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and very interesting and elaborate online history. We'll get into

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Speaker 2: that and how he was located. A lot of really

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Speaker 2: interesting details about him and his background, so we'll get

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Speaker 2: into all of that. Also, he was found with a manifesto.

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Speaker 2: We've only gotten little bits and pieces of that, but

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Speaker 2: we'll tell you what we know. It's kind of basically

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Speaker 2: what you would expect his motivation would be in this killing.

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Speaker 3: All right.

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Speaker 2: We also have some updates for you about Defense Secretary

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Speaker 2: nominee Pete Hegseth looking more now like he may make it.

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Speaker 2: He had a meeting with Joni Ernst. She seems more favorable.

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Speaker 2: She was one of the previous holdouts, so we'll break

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Speaker 2: that down for you as well. We also have a

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Speaker 2: verdict in the Daniel Penny case. He was the man

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Speaker 2: who was on a New York subway. There was a

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Speaker 2: mentally ill man, Jordan Neely, who was sort of menacing passengers,

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Speaker 2: puts him in a choke hold. Jordan Neely ends up dying,

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Speaker 2: so that we have a verdict in that case. Will

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Speaker 2: break all of that down for a very fraud issue

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Speaker 2: and a lot of feelings on both sides of the

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Speaker 2: equation with that one. Also a story that I've been

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Speaker 2: wanting to cover because it is an important international story

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Speaker 2: but also has potentially important implications.

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Speaker 3: For US here as well.

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Speaker 2: Presidential election completely annulled in the country of Romania due

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Speaker 2: to TikTok misinformation, supposed foreign actor intervening. Really troubling what

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Speaker 2: is unfolding. They're regardless of how you feel about the

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Speaker 2: candidates involved, and like I said, some potential implications here

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Speaker 2: as well, So break that down for you. Sager is

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Speaker 2: delivering his anti online sports gambling opus. He wanted to

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Speaker 2: make sure I was very specific, not anti gambling in general,

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Speaker 2: just online sports betting. Yes, I know a lot of

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Speaker 2: thought and work went into this one.

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Speaker 1: Three thousand words. I don't know how long it's going

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Speaker 1: to take to record. It could take a while, so

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Speaker 1: everybody gear up. I will be posting it everywhere. I

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Speaker 1: want people to spread the word. Ever since I started

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Speaker 1: posting about this, I have been getting some of the

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Speaker 1: most heartfelt and horrifying messages from a lot of women,

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Speaker 1: in particular whose husbands have been gambling away their savings.

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Speaker 1: They feel like they can't say anything. So this is

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Speaker 1: for the women out there. This is what I'm doing.

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Speaker 2: I will say this is an issue where I have

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Speaker 2: sort of conflicting feelings and my mind is not settled

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Speaker 2: or made up.

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Speaker 3: So I'm looking forward to I think.

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Speaker 1: I think I don't think a reasonable person could watch

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Speaker 1: this and defend the practice, because I will go anyway,

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Speaker 1: you'll watch it, but it's systemic. So we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about the problem. We're going to talk about the justifications.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about philosophy behind why it was

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Speaker 1: legalized in the first place, the law specifically, but I

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Speaker 1: think the most convincing part that I hope to have

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Speaker 1: is the business practices themselves and why if they are

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Speaker 1: regulated and made to be fair, they literally cannot operate.

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Speaker 1: The only way that they can turn a profit is

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Speaker 1: by exploiting addicts, and specifically by banning people who win.

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Speaker 1: So if you think it's fair, it's a bullshit game.

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Speaker 1: It's completely rigged, and that's something that I really hope

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Speaker 1: people will so.

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Speaker 2: Interestingly enough, both of our monologues are about capitalists exploiting addicts.

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Speaker 2: So I'm taking a deep dive into our healthcare system

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Speaker 2: through the lens of this chain of Method owned clinics

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Speaker 2: and the way that they have abused their patients for profit,

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Speaker 2: and what this says more broadly about our healthcare system. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: massive conversation sparked by the killing of that healthcare CEO,

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Speaker 2: so break that down for you as well before we

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Speaker 2: jump into the show, though, I do have and ask

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Speaker 2: for you guys, for those of you who are interested,

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Speaker 2: this is something that Ryan has been really championing as well.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you all remember the Palestinian poet

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Speaker 2: Rafad A Laier who was killed by the IDF just

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Speaker 2: over a year ago. One of his poems, which is

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Speaker 2: titled if I Must Die, really went quite viral, a

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Speaker 2: lot of people sharing it because it was basically a

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Speaker 2: letter to his daughter for the event in which he

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Speaker 2: was killed, and of course he was killed. I actually

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Speaker 2: read it on the show. I don't know if you

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Speaker 2: guys recall. In any case, his book of poetry is

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Speaker 2: being re released today and there is a real grassroots

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Speaker 2: push to try to get this book of poetry onto

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Speaker 2: bestseller lists, including the New York Times bestseller list. Actually

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Speaker 2: just got a text from Ryan this morning. He says

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Speaker 2: he spoke to the publisher. I'll just read you his text.

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Speaker 2: Talk to the publisher. They've already received nearly ten thousand

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Speaker 2: pre orders, which is fantastic. Normally that would be enough

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Speaker 2: to make the bestseller list, but not during Christmas, so

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Speaker 2: we need a few thousand more. So if you were

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Speaker 2: interested in supporting this cause and elevating the cause of

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Speaker 2: the Palestinian people, this would be a fantastic way to

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Speaker 2: do it by purchasing his book of poetry, including if

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Speaker 2: I must diagain, this has re fought all areer. So

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Speaker 2: thank you all very much for those of you who participate.

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Speaker 1: There you go, and thank you all premium subscribers Breakingpoints

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Speaker 1: dot com if you want more content. We got big plans.

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Speaker 1: We had a big meeting yesterday. We've got to think

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Speaker 1: people are going to be really excited. Okay, So with

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Speaker 1: all of that, let's get to the news. Let's go

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Speaker 1: ahead and put the video on the screens. Twenty six

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Speaker 1: year old Maryland and or Hawaii man Luigi Mangioni was

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Speaker 1: taken into custody yesterday in Altoona, Pennsylvania, after a worker

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Speaker 1: at McDonald's recognized him from the wanted pictures that were

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Speaker 1: put out by New York City Police and by the media,

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Speaker 1: and so police were called. This is the official chain

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Speaker 1: of events, at least for what we know right now.

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Speaker 1: To the McDonald's, they cornered Luigi Mangioni. They asked him

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Speaker 1: for identification. He presented to them the same identification false

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Speaker 1: identification New Jersey ID that he had given to the

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Speaker 1: New York City hostel that he had stayed in previously.

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Speaker 1: They also started his bag found multiple false identities IDs

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Speaker 1: as well. As the US passport, two thousand dollars in

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Speaker 1: foreign currency, eight thousand dollars in United States currency, and

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Speaker 1: a quote unquote ghost gun. A ghost gun is one

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Speaker 1: of those. It's hard to explain exactly the basic way

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Speaker 1: to say, it's like a three D printed weapon, which

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Speaker 1: makes it more untraceable. There's been a lot of controversy

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Speaker 1: around it from the ATF and others, and it is

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Speaker 1: very popular in kind of crypto right wing circles. I

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Speaker 1: actually met the founder of ghosta It was an interesting dude.

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Speaker 1: My point though, is that that was a signal, at

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Speaker 1: least a little bit for me in the beginning. I'm

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Speaker 1: like this, this guy's online, and to say that he's

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Speaker 1: online is actually a little bit of an understatement. Let's

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Speaker 1: go and put his mugshot that was there up on

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Speaker 1: the screen. Pennsylvania Police released this mugshot of Luigi Mangioni.

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Speaker 1: He has now officially been charged with murder in the

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Speaker 1: City of New York, as well as false identification and

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Speaker 1: having false property, so he will be extraduided on assuming there.

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Speaker 1: His entire background is kind of fascinating and it obviously

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Speaker 1: it will tell the story as we continue to get

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Speaker 1: it but this is the valedictorian of a very prestigious

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Speaker 1: Baltimore prep school. He earned his bachelor's and master's degrees

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Speaker 1: at the University of Pennsylvania. He served as head counselor

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Speaker 1: at a pre college program at Stanford University. His family

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Speaker 1: is actually quite wealthy and well known in the Baltimore area.

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Speaker 1: Some of his relatives cousins or even state legislators in

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Speaker 1: the state of Maryland. His family seems to be some

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Speaker 1: sort of like country club tycoons who are known, yeah, area,

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Speaker 1: and quite wealthy, actually well selves.

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Speaker 3: And not only so.

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Speaker 2: My understanding is this is reported by the New York

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Speaker 2: Times as well as some online salutes there. The source

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Speaker 2: of their fortune originally comes from a chain of nursing homes,

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Speaker 2: which could end up being relevant given that his purportive

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Speaker 2: motive here was anger at the healthcare industry. So put

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Speaker 2: that out there. And then with that wealth, Yeah, they

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Speaker 2: purchased a number of country clubs. This is a very wealthy,

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Speaker 2: well known Baltimore family. He goes to this forty thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars a year prep school, goes off to Ivy League school,

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Speaker 2: same one as Donald Trump. You know, lots of very

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Speaker 2: highly esteemed individuals that have gone there, studies, computer science,

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Speaker 2: you know, everyone who's in contact with him basically says,

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Speaker 2: this is a bright kid, you know, very popular, like

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Speaker 2: seems like he has everything going for him. And then

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Speaker 2: there seems to be a turning point in his story

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Speaker 2: when he suffers a some sort of horrific back insurch.

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Speaker 1: It seems to have played him for a while. But

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Speaker 1: they get back surgery, right, he may We don't know

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Speaker 1: if he got the surgery or not. That hasn't yet

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Speaker 1: we confirmed.

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Speaker 2: Well, some of his people who knew him, who were

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Speaker 2: friends with him along the way, did confirm that he

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Speaker 2: had some sort of back surgery. We could put this

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Speaker 2: up on the screen. This is from his Twitter bio

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Speaker 2: and that the banner that has that is at the top.

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Speaker 3: So we've got a Pokemon.

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Speaker 2: Situation the middle screen there that's an X right potentially

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Speaker 2: of his back that you see all these pins and

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Speaker 2: hardwar where that would be indicative of some sort of

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Speaker 2: either you know, horrific injury or degenerative condition. You also

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Speaker 2: see him showing off his well muscled physique. They're hiking

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Speaker 2: in some beautiful mountains, potentially in Hawaii where he lives

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Speaker 2: for quite a while, but the acquaintances who've spoken to

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Speaker 2: the press and friends who've spoken to the press, and

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Speaker 2: his social media footprint also indicate that he has this

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Speaker 2: back surgery. If you look at his Goodreads list, he's

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Speaker 2: looking at all of this literature about how to deal

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Speaker 2: with back pain and how to rehab your back, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: He sort of he drops completely off the map in

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Speaker 2: terms of his friend's family, et cetera. If you go

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Speaker 2: through a social media profile, you've literally got a friend

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Speaker 2: who's like, Dude, you're supposed to be in my wedding,

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Speaker 2: and I can't get in touch with you, Like I

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Speaker 2: need to know what's going on if I can rely

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Speaker 2: on You've got these other messages that are like where

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Speaker 2: are you? Worried about you, Like no one's heard from you,

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Speaker 2: And so he seems to have you know this, this

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Speaker 2: seems to have been, according to the people around him,

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Speaker 2: what really triggered a turn for him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, his mother reported and missing actually just last month

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Speaker 1: in November, so his family didn't know where he was.

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Speaker 1: They were reaching out to his high school friends trying

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Speaker 1: to figure some of this out. You know, obviously, we're

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Speaker 1: just trying to piece all this stuff together. We don't

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Speaker 1: have one hundred percent knowledge. The NYPD did give a

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Speaker 1: press conference with some of the details. Let's take a

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Speaker 1: listen to that.

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Speaker 4: Earlier this morning, in Altuna, Pennsylvania, members of the Altuna

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Speaker 4: Police Department arrested Luigi Mangioni, a twenty six year old

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Speaker 4: mail on firearms charges. At this time, he is believed

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Speaker 4: to be our person of interest in the brazen targeted

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Speaker 4: murder of Brian Thompson, CEO of United Healthcare last Wednesday

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Speaker 4: in Midtown, Manhattan. The suspect was in a McDonald's and

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Speaker 4: was recognized by an employee, who then.

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Speaker 1: Called local police.

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Speaker 4: Responding officers questioned the suspect, who was acting suspiciously and

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Speaker 4: was carrying multiple fraudgelant IDs as well as a US passport.

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Speaker 4: Upon further investigation, officers recovered a firearm on his person,

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Speaker 4: as well as a suppressor, both consistent with the weapon

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Speaker 4: used in the murder. They also recovered clothing, including a

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Speaker 4: mask consistent with those worn by our wanted individual. Also

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Speaker 4: recovered was a fraudulent New Jersey ID, matching the ID

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Speaker 4: our suspect used to check into his New York City

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Speaker 4: hostel before the shooting.

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Speaker 1: Incident.

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Speaker 4: Additionally, officers recovered a handwritten document that speaks to both

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Speaker 4: his motivation and mindset.

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Speaker 1: All right, so that's what we know so far. He

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Speaker 1: did have a very prolific online presence to which we

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Speaker 1: can gleam a little bit. Let's go and put a

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Speaker 1: six pleas up on the screen, and this fits with

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Speaker 1: the back pain. It appears that from his Goodreads profile,

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Speaker 1: Goodreads is kind of like a social network for being

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Speaker 1: able to rate and review books, that he had a

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Speaker 1: couple of books here he had David Goggins's Can't Hurt Me.

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Speaker 1: But here's the indication he has to quit. The book

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Speaker 1: called quote crooked outwitting the back pain industry and getting

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Speaker 1: on the road to recovery, Grit, the Power of Passion

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Speaker 1: and Perseverance, and back Mechanic by doctor Stuart McGill. All

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Speaker 1: of those give us a clue, and combined with some

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Speaker 1: of the testimony that he had given to many of

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Speaker 1: his friends who when he was living in Hawaii, who

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Speaker 1: all report him having some horrific back problems for after

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Speaker 1: surfing and others where he'd be bedridden and he was

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Speaker 1: personally having a real crisis with it. Then though, as

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Speaker 1: we move on in good Reads, you get to start

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Speaker 1: a little bit of who is gentleman? Yes, his journey,

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Speaker 1: shall we say, And there was some uncle Ted love.

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Speaker 1: Let's go and put this up there on the screen

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Speaker 1: good Reads. He reviews Ted Kaczynski the Unibomber uncle Ted

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Speaker 1: is a joke. By the way, it's an online thing

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Speaker 1: where he says it gives it four stars as if

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Speaker 1: he could do better, which is hilarious. And he says

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Speaker 1: when all other forms of communications fail, violence is necessary

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Speaker 1: to survive. You may not you may not like his methods,

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Speaker 1: but to see things from his perspective, it's not terrorism,

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Speaker 1: it's war and its revolution. If you've never written read

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Speaker 1: the Unibomber manifesto, it is quite something.

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Speaker 3: We'd a monologue here, Yeah, I think it did. Manifesto.

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Speaker 3: I can't remember why it was relevant.

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Speaker 1: But Tucker had talked about it. Maybe that's why. Maybe

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Speaker 1: you know Volume one is interesting. Volume two, Adam starts

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Speaker 1: to go.

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Speaker 2: It had a moment to because Blake Masters was into

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Speaker 2: it as well, which all. What was the plot twist

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Speaker 2: here is that based on the online footprint, we don't

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Speaker 2: know what this gentleman has been up to for the

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Speaker 2: past six months. His politics are much more sober than me,

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Speaker 2: which is kind of hilarious.

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Speaker 1: Amber I have a description of him. I think the

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Speaker 1: best description is secular, right wing, ANARCO, anti capitalist, and honestly,

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Speaker 1: that is about as good as you're going to get

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Speaker 1: for this person. For example, I tweeted immediately when I

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Speaker 1: reviewed his profile, Here's what I said. I said, A

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Speaker 1: quick perusal of the CEO killing suspect indicates some when

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Speaker 1: plugged into online health tech discourse with right wing sensibilities

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Speaker 1: about the collapse of religion in the United States and

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Speaker 1: why immigration won't solve Japan's problems. This is going to

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Speaker 1: be an interesting one. It does appear that MANGIONI spent

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Speaker 1: some time in Japan. Let's go and put an eight

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Speaker 1: to eight up there on the screen. This one is

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Speaker 1: personally hilarious to me.

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Speaker 2: The Songer parallels were a little weird because this Japan

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Speaker 2: visit and then he was nuclear.

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Speaker 1: Post your Power. He's an Andrew Huberman fan. He likes

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Speaker 1: Chris Williamson. I have a lot of it's honestly scary.

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Speaker 1: I have a lot in common with this dude. A

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Speaker 1: lot of the good Reads books, some of them are cringe.

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Speaker 1: Some of them are actually quite good. So here's what

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Speaker 1: he tweets. Leave this up here. Modern Japanese urban environment

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Speaker 1: is an evolutionary mismatch for the human animal. The solution

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Speaker 1: to falling birth dates, he meant birth rates is in immigration.

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Speaker 1: It's cultural encourage natural human interaction, sex, physical fitness, and spirituality.

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Speaker 1: Ban fleshlights and other custom porn star pockets being sold

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Speaker 1: in don Quixote g tree stores. That is such a

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Speaker 1: japan post for everybody who has been there. Replaced. Conveyor

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Speaker 1: belt sushi and restaurant vending machine ordering with actual human

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Speaker 1: interaction replaced twenty four to seven E sports cafes where

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Speaker 1: young males earn false fitness signals via tech in fighting

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Speaker 1: and Overwatch shooting games with athletics in schools heavily stigmatized

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Speaker 1: made cafes. My analysis was, quote it appears the United

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Speaker 1: States United CEO Healthcare CEO killing suspects spent some time

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Speaker 1: in Japan and had some thoughts about how to quote

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Speaker 1: unquote return their society. I said, I think there's a

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Speaker 1: non zero chance he was inspired by gaikoku Joe style assassinations.

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Speaker 2: You don't also see like jd Vance posting something very

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Speaker 2: similar to.

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Speaker 1: This, Let's keep going because the parallels here again to

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Speaker 1: my own sensibilities, is shocking. Let's go to the next one.

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Speaker 1: Here he says he got into a back and forth

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Speaker 1: with someone. But he says Tucker is spot on in

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Speaker 1: recognizing modern architecture kills the spirit. But his very first

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Speaker 1: line postmodern architecture is designed to demoralize and hurt you,

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Speaker 1: paints the phenomenon is intentional in the same way that

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Speaker 1: inflation is not intelligently designed to oppress people. Neither is

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Speaker 1: modern architecture. It is emergent. Yes, it is oppressive, but

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Speaker 1: that's a fallout of selective pressures to build fast and cheap,

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Speaker 1: irrespective of esthetics. So for those who are very online

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Speaker 1: like myself, we've got some architecture posting. We've got a

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Speaker 1: clear aesthetic worship somebody who himself. I mean, if you

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Speaker 1: look at him, what he's got to be in the

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Speaker 1: top one percent of American male physiques. Good.

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Speaker 3: You're saying, Look, he's a good looking guy.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if he was running tests or any

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Speaker 1: of these others, but if that's natural, I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: pretty damn good. You gotta give it to him. So

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Speaker 1: he was into health. He was into obviously clean eating

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Speaker 1: if you also look at some of his posts. But

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Speaker 1: I think the obvious demarcation point was this was a

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Speaker 1: guy who had everything going for him. Obviously very high

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Speaker 1: IQ individual. He gets to go to these IIV of

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Speaker 1: the schools master's computer science, even actually in the Peter

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Speaker 1: Science department. He was part of some fraternities and others,

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Speaker 1: which indicate that he had very high grades, which this

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Speaker 1: is a very very difficult field, okay for people who

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Speaker 1: are in this. He had prestigious internships for I think

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Speaker 1: he was fixing bugs in one of the civilized games.

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Speaker 1: Yeah something, so, I mean, look, it's a prototype in

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Speaker 1: some ways an extremely quote unquote normy individual, but also

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Speaker 1: mean very.

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Speaker 2: Very burning the Trump pipeline vibes. Yeah, in my opinion.

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Speaker 1: Apparently, according to the police, he had quote unquote anti

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Speaker 1: capitalist sentiments, and that's what some people are seizing on.

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Speaker 1: But it's I think, maybe there's something wrong with me,

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Speaker 1: because I perfectly understand this guy.

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Speaker 2: That's the thing people keep saying, like, oh, politics are

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Speaker 2: so incomprehensible, And maybe it's because I do the show

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Speaker 2: with you and because i'm you know, waste you online

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Speaker 2: or whatever. I'm like, what are you talking about? His

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Speaker 2: politics are completely like, the type is very readily apparent

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Speaker 2: if you're you know, if you're in, if you're online,

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Speaker 2: if you know these personalities whatever. Now, again, I do

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Speaker 2: think it's worth saying all of this social media profile

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Speaker 2: we're talking about it drops off six months ago. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's right, and that's you know, when he goes off

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Speaker 2: the grid, loses touch with all his or cuts communication

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Speaker 2: with all of his friends and family as best as

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Speaker 2: we know, And so we don't know what sort of

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Speaker 2: intellectual or political ideological journey he was on during that

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Speaker 2: time peria that led him to take this extreme act.

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Speaker 2: So I do want to put that caveat out there.

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Speaker 2: That'sant the other thing that I want to say, just like,

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Speaker 2: on a personal level, we don't know exactly what the

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Speaker 2: motivation was. They have not yet released the manifesto, which,

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Speaker 2: by the way, they really should release the manifesto.

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Speaker 1: They're so like, it's only two hundred and sixty two words.

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Speaker 2: Clifvenstein is on the case with this one, pushing them

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Speaker 2: because the idea that we can't handle the truth of

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Speaker 2: what he was putting out there is to complete bullshit.

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Speaker 2: I hope that the whole thing comes down so that

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Speaker 2: you can read it. There is something that is circulating

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Speaker 2: online that is allegedly the man of but I don't

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Speaker 2: think that it actually is the There are some quotes

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Speaker 2: that the media has circulated calling the the health insurance industry,

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Speaker 2: calling them quote unquote parasites, taking responsibility for this action,

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Speaker 2: saying he acted alone, that he's self funded, and apologizing

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Speaker 2: for the harm and the chaos that he caused. Was

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Speaker 2: saying that it was a necessary action. Those things don't

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Speaker 2: appear in the manifesto that's allegedly circulating online, so I

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Speaker 2: don't think it's the right one. But you know, in

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Speaker 2: any case, we don't know exactly what triggered this extreme response.

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Speaker 3: I will just.

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Speaker 2: Say I suffer with back pain for two years. I'm

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Speaker 2: sure it was based on that X ray. I'm sure

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Speaker 2: it was nothing like what he was suffering. That kind

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Speaker 2: of chronic pain will drive you sort of insane. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's it is debilitating, and it's ever present, and there's

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Speaker 2: you know, especially with certain types of like nerve pain,

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Speaker 2: there's really no relief from it whatsoever. One of the

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Speaker 2: an acquaintance in Hawaii that spoke with the New York

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Speaker 2: Times said that he had also expressed that he wasn't

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Speaker 2: able to be like physically intimate because of the extent

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Speaker 2: of this injury, So that may really have been the

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Speaker 2: kind of you know, trigger and pivot point that led

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Speaker 2: him down this down the spot.

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Speaker 1: There's also a lot of indications that he was into

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Speaker 1: psychedelics and to marijuana. For For example, he says drug

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Speaker 1: abuse is not a fair criteria. The most intelligent, open

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Speaker 1: minded individuals I know manipulate and push the buttons of

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Speaker 1: their psyche via specific drugs. Drug abuse should distinguish between

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Speaker 1: psilocybin marijuana from addictive soul.

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Speaker 3: Suckers, like a very like tech kind of.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can spot this guy coming from a

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Speaker 1: mile away, a lot of Michael polland psychedelic books.

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Speaker 2: He was really into that Tim Urban, the woke mind

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Speaker 2: virus that we had tim on.

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Speaker 3: We talked to him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Lookvid, He's was like Peter Teel Andrew Huberman Guid's.

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Speaker 3: Kind of he was reposting elon Muss.

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Speaker 1: Look, you could see a scenario where somebody who is

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Speaker 1: driven crazy by chronic pain begins like heavily abusing psychedelics

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Speaker 1: and marijuana and go and basically has a complete psychotic break.

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Speaker 1: If you don't believe me, Alex Bearnson wrote a whole

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Speaker 1: great book called Tell Your Children about Psychosis induced or

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Speaker 1: marijuana induced psychosis or how it can actually trigger something.

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Speaker 1: By the way, despite all of the widespread, you know,

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Speaker 1: psychedelic stuff, one of the things that people in the

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Speaker 1: quote unquote psycho Nott community will tell you is if

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Speaker 1: you are predisposed to, you know, to mental illness, you

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Speaker 1: shouldn't do it so you could easily see I mean,

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Speaker 1: all the telltale signs of a psychotic breaker there. Right,

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Speaker 1: You basically have somebody on the precipice, very high IQ individual,

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Speaker 1: somebody who's dealing with a life changing and pressuring situation

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Speaker 1: that is like a slow burn, including pain, and then

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Speaker 1: you know, you reach this possibly you already have some

433
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 1: previous problems, and then six months you drop. I mean,

434
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 1: it's crazy to drop off the grid. Your family doesn't

435
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 1: know where you are, You're dropping out of friends' weddings,

436
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 1: You're like gallivanting between Hawaii and the United States. And

437
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 1: then obviously you meticulously plan here and prepare for the

438
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 1: assassination of a high profile CEO. So what get some

439
00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:58,399
Speaker 1: details about it.

440
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 2: I will say though, that I don't think that it's

441
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 2: possible there was a psychotic break.

442
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:04,880
Speaker 3: I think that's entirely possible.

443
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,439
Speaker 2: I think it's also possible that there wasn't that he

444
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 2: there was a you know, an ideology driving this that

445
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,919
Speaker 2: was sort of an ends justify the means ideology where

446
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,720
Speaker 2: he spun himself up into believing that, you know, by

447
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 2: killing this person, potentially he was saving more lives, and

448
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 2: so this sort of like you know, utilitarian calculus.

449
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:25,360
Speaker 1: You could see it with the I mean, look, that's

450
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 1: why the thing about Ted Kasinski, one of the biggest

451
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 1: arguments about it is like was he crazy or not.

452
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,159
Speaker 1: It's like, well, yeah, you kind of do have to

453
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 1: be crazy when you kill like X number of people.

454
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 1: But it's also extremely well argued and highly rational. I

455
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 1: don't see this these two things it's mutually exclusive.

456
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 2: Well, you're Japanese fascist, dude, I mean, was he crazy?

457
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,119
Speaker 3: She might have you know, the anarchist in the early.

458
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 2: Nineteen Fingreds who were you know, potentially bombing Wall Street

459
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 2: and committing those sorts of violence with here and around

460
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,679
Speaker 2: the world. It wasn't that they were insane, it was

461
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 2: that they were ideological extremists that believed that violence would

462
00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 2: lead to some greater good. Right, that's not a philosophy

463
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:01,959
Speaker 2: I subscribe to you. I don't think that that's correct.

464
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 2: I think it's proven wrong over time, but I don't

465
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:08,640
Speaker 2: think it requires you to be crazy, you know, to

466
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,919
Speaker 2: engage in that sort of ideological philosophizing that convinces you

467
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 2: that this is actually the correct and more.

468
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,199
Speaker 1: Absolutely so, you could see that in Kazinski. You were

469
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 1: just talking about Yukyomishima as well as somebody who long

470
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,439
Speaker 1: planned this thing. You can see his own ideological evolution

471
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 1: until he eventually committed sepuku in the nineteen seventies and

472
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 1: his like attempted Japanese takeover. Yeah, so clearly the signs

473
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 1: were all there. And well, actually, I'm curious to see

474
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: whether he pleads insanity defense or not, because if he

475
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: doesn't and he talks about it this way, he really

476
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 1: will have like some sort of technictostally, it's going to

477
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 1: be a style thing on our hands.

478
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 2: The other thing that I did want to point out

479
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 2: before we move on is just to go back to

480
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 2: the way that he was found. So he was apparently

481
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 2: riding a Greyhound bus through Pennsylvania, they stop at this

482
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 2: McDonald's for everybody to get off and have lunch. Some

483
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 2: elderly patron there reportedly recognizes how from the police photos

484
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 2: and calls in a tip. The police come and that's

485
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 2: how he's apprehended. Now the police say they were surprised

486
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,360
Speaker 2: that they found him. They didn't know a name, they

487
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 2: didn't know where he was. All of their fancy surveillance,

488
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 2: I mean, the only thing you could say it was like,

489
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 2: actually the hotel security camera, yeh, that's right, that picture

490
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 2: that probably was sufficient for someone to be able to

491
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 2: recognize him. But all of their multi billion dollar tech

492
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,479
Speaker 2: and police force, et cetera, et cetera had nothing to

493
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,159
Speaker 2: do with catching him. So yesterday on the show when

494
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 2: we were like, he may well get away with it

495
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 2: if it wasn't for I don't know why he's still

496
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania. Like if he had hopped on a plane

497
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 2: and was out of the country, he would have I

498
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 2: think gotten away.

499
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 1: Part of the issue talking about high IQ individual highly rational.

500
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 1: It's like, bro, what are you doing with all this cash?

501
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 1: The gun?

502
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 2: The manifestana McDonald's Pennsylvania, which is not all that far

503
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 2: from New York City, Like why are you, at least

504
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 2: not in Canada.

505
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 1: Very like maybe he was trying to maybe want the

506
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 1: people to want.

507
00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 2: To say, you know, some people said maybe he did

508
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 2: want to get caught because you still you have a manifesto,

509
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 2: you have all this cash, you have what is that

510
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 2: it's called like a far day bag or something day

511
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 2: bag that.

512
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,199
Speaker 3: Like blocks cells blocks like sales services service.

513
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 2: He had that he had the murder weapon with, like

514
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 2: he had dished your backpack with the monopoly money in

515
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 2: Central Park. Why didn't you ditch the murder weapon there?

516
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 2: So there are some indications that potentially at least some

517
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 2: part of him and wanted to be apprehended.

518
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 1: Why did you give it a false ID? You don't

519
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 1: ever go a false ID to the PD, right, Yeah,

520
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: I didn't know that it's fake, so right, and they

521
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 1: if they didn't have his name, you just give me

522
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 1: a real ID, they'd be like, okay, sir, thanks mister

523
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: mind right.

524
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 2: Because the fake ID matched up with the fake IDA

525
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 2: that he used at the hospital, will allow them to

526
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 2: connect the adult shots immediately.

527
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

528
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 1: So anyway, there's a there's a lot of weird stuff

529
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: from the story.

530
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 2: But it is it is noteworthy to me and also

531
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 2: I was proven correct that Eric Adams was lying out

532
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 2: of his ass when he claimed that they knew the name,

533
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 2: which I guessed that they did not, And the police

534
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 2: confirmed that they had no idea where he was, They

535
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 2: had no idea who he was. They even all these

536
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 2: many days later, did not even have a name to

537
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 2: put to him. And it's only because of this, like

538
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,919
Speaker 2: elderly McDonald's patron, that they apprehend I.

539
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 1: Mean, yeah, I mean, in some respects the crime totally

540
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: comport with some like one thirty five IQ software engineer,

541
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,679
Speaker 1: and in some you're like, dude, you're an idiot, you know,

542
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: for doing a lot of this stuff. But you know,

543
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 1: sometimes there is the duality I guess of all of this. Regardless,

544
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,360
Speaker 1: it's going to be a big trial. My god, certainly

545
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,959
Speaker 1: something when we see all this. He's already he's got

546
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: quite a bit of an online fan base. I hear

547
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: in the gay community there.

548
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 2: Is I think in all sorts of community.

549
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: Luigi as in particular love him Free.

550
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 2: Luigi was trending online. There was a lot of a

551
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 2: lot of sopranos memes flying because of his strong Italian

552
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 2: heritage and appearance.

553
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,160
Speaker 1: So you know, well, you know, at a certain point,

554
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 1: maybe maybe those will revived some nineteen twenties discussions about immigration.

555
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 1: I've already seen some jokes that are about there, which

556
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 1: are pretty good. Let's all be honest. Let's all be honest.

557
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,679
Speaker 3: If the killer was on importing the Dago anything is.

558
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: What I would really take away from this is that

559
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 1: if you are not online, I don't recommend it, but

560
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: you're going to have a very difficult time understanding this case.

561
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: You really will. True and uh so, and because of

562
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: how important quote unquote being online and online politics and

563
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 1: all that was to Donald Trump's victory eventually winning the

564
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: popular vote, maybe you should get online because at this

565
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: point online is reality. I don't know another way to

566
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: put it. While we're walking in the assassinations, you know,

567
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: the presidential election, I mean, even jd Vance, we could

568
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: be honest. I mean, in some respects, he's the most

569
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: successful poster in the world. He went from a author

570
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: from Yale working.

571
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,199
Speaker 3: I had Hillbilly ego.

572
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 1: I think he only gave it three point five stars,

573
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: which you know, I think I think it's a little insulting.

574
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,120
Speaker 1: I mean, what the industrial.

575
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 3: I got Lorax got five on five.

576
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: Which Lox got five out of five.

577
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 3: He was a great anti capital this that's.

578
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: My other thing. Luis g. You need better taste than

579
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: Brooks Broke. You know, you got a lot of time.

580
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: I'm on your hands. Now it's time to move past

581
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 1: Mark Manson's you know, what is it? How to stop

582
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: giving a fuck or whatever. Let's get some deeper stuff

583
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: you got. You're probably gonna spend the next thirty forty

584
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: years of your life in prison, so you're going to

585
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: need to level up your good breed's list. Anyway, we

586
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: will continue to follow the case. It's fascinating stuff, it

587
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: really is.

588
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 2: Indeed, many twists and turns already, Okay, speaking twists and turns,

589
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 2: let's get to the nomination of Pete Heggsath for Secretary

590
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,959
Speaker 2: of Defense was looking like that confirmation process was on

591
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 2: the rocks after a bunch of reporting about his you know,

592
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 2: personal life and the rape allegations coming.

593
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 3: Out of California.

594
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 2: But one of the key holdouts, Senator Jonie Ernst, seems

595
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 2: to have been brought around.

596
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 3: Let's go and put this up on the screen.

597
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 2: So she had a meeting with Pete Heggsath on Monday,

598
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 2: and afterwards she put out a statement she said, I

599
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 2: appreciate Pete Heggsath's responsiveness and respect for the process. Following

600
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 2: our encouraging conversations, Pete committed to completing a full audit

601
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 2: of the Pentagon, selecting a senior official who will uphold

602
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 2: the roles and values of our servicemen and women, because

603
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 2: heg Seth had previously written he did not support women

604
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 2: in combat role, so that part was noteworthy. Based on

605
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 2: quality and standards, quotas, and who will prioritize and strengthen

606
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 2: my work to prevent sexual assault within the ranks. As

607
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 2: I support Pete through this process, I look forward to

608
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 2: a fair hearing based on truth, not anonymous sources. She said, So,

609
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 2: you know, that's very significant because part of what is

610
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 2: going on with Joni Ernst here is I think a

611
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 2: genuine concern about you know, some of the allegations against

612
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 2: Pete Hegss A genuine concern because she herself is a

613
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 2: military veteran and she also is herself a sexual assault survivor.

614
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 2: So I think there was some genuine concern there. But

615
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 2: also part of what's going on is that Joni Ernst

616
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 2: was also a potential candidate for the lot, So you

617
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 2: know there was a little self interested motives.

618
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: There more lou real concern or politician who wants a

619
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: level up. It can be both, yeah, sometimes me both.

620
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 2: Again, this is someone who serves the country and who

621
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 2: herself is a survivor, and I'm sure wants to see

622
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 2: other women be able to continue to serve in some

623
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 2: of the roles that she did, et cetera. Anyway, it

624
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 2: looks like, due to partly a massive online right wing

625
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 2: bullying campaign against her, she has capitulated and is now

626
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 2: saying that it looks likely she will support him.

627
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 3: Yea, that was a big barrier for him.

628
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 2: You know, I still think, you know, he may lose,

629
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 2: Like I don't think Collins and Murkowski have committed to

630
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 2: supporting him.

631
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's got he got fifty three. He only

632
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: needs fifty exactly.

633
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 2: And so that was why Jony Earns in particular was

634
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 2: such a key.

635
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: Well, apparently Lindsey Graham also considered joining Journey Ernest in

636
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: opposing him. He doesn't like peak headset for a number

637
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: of reasons. And look, I mean, I think it'll be interesting.

638
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: Actually we can put the next one up there on

639
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 1: the screen quote unquote Ron who how Trump allies brought

640
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: Hegseth back from the brink. I read through this this morning,

641
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: actually totally makes sense. Basically, what happened is that after Gates,

642
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: they got tell it's a huge blow. They see Jony

643
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: Ernst here and the Senate trying to muscle and make

644
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: sure that they can stand up and actually support some independence.

645
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: And then really what happened is both a behind the

646
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: scenes and a front facing campaign to go after Journey

647
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: Ernst because she's up for election in two years, and

648
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: make it known that if she were to sink Pete

649
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: Heads's nomination, she was going to face problems in her primary.

650
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: She was going to face a kind of a maga revolt,

651
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 1: both online donations, but politically and professionally. Her life would

652
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: have been very difficult. So what they decided is that

653
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: they need to make a stand on Hegseeth because I

654
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: think Heg Seth was also very different than Gates. Gates,

655
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: it appears at at least four or five different no

656
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 1: votes that were against him, Hexith only has one. She

657
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: really only had to flip one person.

658
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 2: I mean, Gates had a lot of He had worked

659
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 2: with these people and they knew him personally and disliked him.

660
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 3: Pete didn't have that.

661
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, so there wasn't this like personal animus

662
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 2: against him that was animating some of the I think makid.

663
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And also, I mean Pete Hegsat actually is

664
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: a is a warrior in the MAGA kind of online

665
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: circles in a way that Gates is. But then he

666
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: didn't have the same baggage that the Congress. The Congress

667
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: was carrying with Matt Gates. Matt Gates also, you know, look,

668
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: Pete Heggsath may have one accuser or whatever. Matt Gates

669
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: got a whole ethics thing that would have happened, he

670
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: would have to go through an FBI background check. I mean,

671
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: that was a whole other level of salaciousness and of

672
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: scandal that could have followed him for a while. I

673
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: think that those two things were the really what sunk

674
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: him with Hesat. I mean, look, you know, it's like

675
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: you can believe him or not, but at the end

676
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: of the day, it's like one person, you know that

677
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: we're talking about here in terms of the settlement and

678
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: in some of the even the drinking allegations, Like again,

679
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: I'm just not going to take it seriously from some

680
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: people who are blasted all the time. That doesn't mean

681
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:51,959
Speaker 1: I can don't his behavior. You shouldn't drink alcohol, especially

682
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: if you're in very high positions of power. But you know,

683
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: it's like again to be tit tutted by senators who

684
00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: was some of whom I know personally and have seen

685
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: him get pits drunk, and Capitol Hill reporters. It's just

686
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: so aggravating to me. But anyways, the real thing is

687
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: that with heg Seth, they decided to make a stand

688
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: because they know that it's not just about he Seth

689
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: at this point. If they capitulate there, then that means

690
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: that Tulsi Gabbard RFK Junior are now in trouble. So

691
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: what's interesting is if you saw Joni Ernest tweets out

692
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: a photo just yesterday of her meeting with Tulsi Gabbard

693
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: right just being like okay, basically a piece you know,

694
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: with the with the process. Another one was Cash Pattel

695
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: because they're a little bit worried about him because of

696
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: the people on the Judiciary Committee, people like John Cornyn

697
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: and others who were on the fence about what exactly

698
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 1: was going to happen. So I feel like relatively confident.

699
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: I'll give him a sixty five seventy percent shot. They'll

700
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: probably eventually get confirmation. Something else could come out. It's

701
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: certainly possible, but at this point they decided to make

702
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: a stand, and so it does look like Pete hegg

703
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: Seth has a decent enough chance to become the next

704
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: Secretary of Defense.

705
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 2: So I think it's been fair to report on all

706
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 2: the leg personal stuff, especially in the sensitive a role.

707
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 2: You worry about blackmail, you worry about what else could

708
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 2: come out, et cetera. So I'm not saying that that's illegitimate.

709
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 2: But Michael Tracy's been making a very good point about this,

710
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 2: which is all this focus on his drinking and his

711
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 2: love life and all these things has either distracted or

712
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 2: just the media is not really that interested in what

713
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:19,399
Speaker 2: his actual ideology is. And so Michael Tracy, as he does,

714
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 2: has been digging deeply into things he said over the

715
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 2: years about, you know, his supposed positioning as a quote

716
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 2: unquote recovering Neocon. When this evolution happened, is it legit?

717
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:30,720
Speaker 3: Et cetera.

718
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 2: And I really recommend couput this piece up on the screen.

719
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 2: I really recommend this piece to you because Michael Tracy

720
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 2: listened to his speeches, read his books, watch his podcast

721
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 2: appearances to try to track his actual evolution if he

722
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 2: has indeed engaged in some sort of an evolution, because

723
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:55,280
Speaker 2: he's sort of painted as this, you know, america first revolutionary,

724
00:34:55,640 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 2: who's going to have this completely different ideology and position

725
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 2: the American military and you know, potentially sort of rolled

726
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 2: back American Empire. It's utter and there isn't a lot

727
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 2: to really base that on. He was he came to

728
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 2: prominence for his Iraq War advocacy. He was, you know,

729
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 2: a leader of groups that their whole mission was to

730
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 2: promote candidates who continued to back the Iraq War. He

731
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 2: you know, in the Ukraine War, continued to support this.

732
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 2: Like his position was Joe Biden was not being hawkish

733
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 2: enough visa the Ukraine. Now again these are positions that

734
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 2: he's switched on. But I also think it's important, as

735
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 2: you've said before, Sager, like Okay, after the fact, after

736
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 2: consensus congeals and it's safe, It's one thing to oppose

737
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 2: the wars. It's another thing to have opposed these wars

738
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 2: when it was difficult and when it was unpopular, and

739
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 2: when it perhaps went against the grain of your party

740
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 2: and your peers. There's no record of that with Pete Hegseth.

741
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 2: The other thing is, even with regard to Iraq, it's

742
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 2: hard to pinned down when he actually decided that he

743
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 2: was against the Iraq War, and judging by the public record,

744
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 2: his conversion on the issue came after people like Jeb Bush,

745
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton, certainly even John McCain who you know, at

746
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 2: the end of his life decided like, you know, this

747
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 2: doesn't didn't really go all that well. Apparently, according to

748
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:26,879
Speaker 2: Tracy Hegsas in a podcast appearance last month with Sean Ryan,

749
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 2: was that should we have been in Iraq at that point?

750
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 2: He replied, I was a huge proponent of it at

751
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 2: the time, but in retrospect, absolutely not. I've been a

752
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 2: recovering Neokon for six years now, So if you do

753
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 2: the maths from twenty twenty four to six years prior,

754
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 2: that would be roughly twenty eighteen, being generous that he

755
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 2: had this final evolution with regard to the Iraq War.

756
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:48,800
Speaker 2: So all of that is to say, just in terms

757
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 2: of the ideology, he has kind of the vibes and

758
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 2: the brand as some sort of revolutionary is going to

759
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 2: have this very different approach, and I think there's a

760
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 2: lot of reason for skepticism about that when he had

761
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 2: taken the neocon position even up to and including the

762
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 2: Ukraine War.

763
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, look, I like Pxseth. I think he's an ideological warrior.

764
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: I think the case for Hegseeth is kind of the

765
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,439
Speaker 1: way that you would look at any opportunistic politician who

766
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,720
Speaker 1: wants to be on the right side of an issue

767
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 1: when he may not necessarily get there originally, and he

768
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: may do what is quote unquote in vogue at the time,

769
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,919
Speaker 1: but if it's the popular consensus, he will be there.

770
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: And because of his television presenting skills, it's actually very

771
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 1: skilled at being able to switch positions and making not

772
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: seem all that incongruent. I don't think he has a

773
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: real ideology on national event. And look, I'm trying to

774
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 1: be kind here, but the truth is is, like the

775
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 1: guy seems to be a bit of a follower right

776
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: on a rock on Ukraine on everything kind of gets

777
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:47,879
Speaker 1: dragged where the base is and all that. It doesn't

778
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: seem to have any like hardcore convictions. The only real

779
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: hardcore convictions he has are general orientation that the Pentagon

780
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 1: and the War Department itself no longer fight wars in

781
00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 1: a way that we are able to win. I'm fine

782
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: with that as long as that here's a orientation we

783
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: can get you to the right place. You know, just

784
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 1: listen to some of the good folks. Jd. Vance is

785
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 1: very supportive of him, at least in terms of some

786
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,439
Speaker 1: of the discussions that they have had. So if Pete

787
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: Hexeth does become the sat Deaf, I think there are

788
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: a couple of things that we're going to see. One

789
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 1: is he will not be quote unquote pushing his own agenda.

790
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:19,800
Speaker 1: That's very different than what I think Margaret Rubio is

791
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: going to do or Mike Waltz are going to do.

792
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 1: These are actual ideologically these are ideological neo cons who

793
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 1: have really not changed a lot of their position and

794
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 1: who will take orders from Donald Trump. But a lot

795
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 1: of the other stuff in the interagency process that is

796
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 1: going to be very much of their discression under a

797
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 1: Pete Hexeth. I don't think that that's the case. I

798
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: think that will be very much like he's going to be.

799
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 1: He's going to do whatever he's told to do. I'm

800
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 1: fine with that. The other thing that I think Pete

801
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: Hexeth will go after which I support again is the

802
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,880
Speaker 1: entire military bureaucracy which he has long been at war with,

803
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: specifically the three in the four star general class, who

804
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 1: are basically just HR bureaucrats. Now at this point, this

805
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 1: relates and has overlap with DEI, but is still very

806
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 1: important for people to understand because it's way bigger than that.

807
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 1: We're talking about. Basically an elevation of Lloyd Austin is

808
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 1: the prototypical person who rises in the United States military

809
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 1: at this point. This person was a Sentcom commander under

810
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: the Syrian Rebels program and admitted a complete failure and

811
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: the funding of al Qaeda. He is then given the

812
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 1: job because he's black basically to become the Secretary of

813
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: Defense Donald by Joe Biden, and then does nothing for

814
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: four years. Has America been very successful militarily as the

815
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,760
Speaker 1: Pentagon become more ready for war since under his leadership.

816
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 1: Absolutely not. You know, if anything, you actually see a

817
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,879
Speaker 1: lot of morale figures in the military. Recruitment is way down.

818
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: A lot of the reasons are because of obesity, but

819
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: a lot of the people don't want to join anymore.

820
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 1: You have a crisis of patriotism, a crisis of recruitment.

821
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 1: Morale apparently amongst the rank and file is terrible, has

822
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 1: been for four years. A lot of that had to

823
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: do with COVID. I think Pete will be the most

824
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 1: popular sect def with rank and file members in like

825
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 1: a generation. It's been years since you had anybody who

826
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: maybe maybe Mattis initially but of course later on turned

827
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 1: a little bit against Trump. I think he will be

828
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: truly beloved by a lot of the rank and file.

829
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:15,880
Speaker 1: And this is somebody who actually did fight. So it

830
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,439
Speaker 1: is interesting to watch people. And I saw an article

831
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 1: about this, I think it was in the Journal. It

832
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: was called like the Disgruntled Veterans, and it's people like JD. Tulcy,

833
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 1: Gabbard and Pete Hegshath who have very idea. What the

834
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: key is is that all of them fought at a

835
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 1: lower level whenever they were basically entry in the military

836
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 1: and formed a general orientation Neo Khan and all this

837
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 1: other stuff is the wrong way with the way I

838
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: would say it is feeling failed by your leaders. And

839
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,760
Speaker 1: that's why I think if you look at Pete's past,

840
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 1: one of the reasons that Donald Trump wanted to pick

841
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: him as the VA Secretary, was again because of his

842
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: popularity with the rank and file. But don't forget this.

843
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 1: He went to war for people like Eddie Gallagher and

844
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 1: a few others who were accused and convicted wars under

845
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 1: the UCM jay and basically got Donald Trump to issue

846
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 1: them a pardon. And he's been somebody with the Concerned

847
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 1: Veterans of America who has pushed a lot of act

848
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 1: in about PTSD and others for people who have been

849
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 1: deeply affected by their service. So to me, it's kind

850
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 1: of like the It's kind of like Luis G. MANGIONI,

851
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,760
Speaker 1: because I guys swim in these circles. His political orientation

852
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 1: makes total sense to me. But for Tracy and others,

853
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,919
Speaker 1: even like yourselves, look you should be skeptical. I mean, look,

854
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,760
Speaker 1: I think it's fair to say Pete is a very

855
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: pro Israel in like a spiritual way. You got one

856
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 1: of these tattoos, is like Jerusalem.

857
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 2: He's like close to Huckabee in terms of his Israel views.

858
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the way.

859
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 2: Not only I mean he's this is not this is

860
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 2: not a dove right, And sometimes this gets confused, And

861
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 2: Tracy also argues, I agree with him, Like the term

862
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 2: neocon has just become completely meaningless because I do think

863
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 2: by any like reasonable definition of the term, Pete Hagseth

864
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:02,720
Speaker 2: would meet the definition. He very hawkish, he wants the

865
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,839
Speaker 2: military to you know, be he is not rolling back

866
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 2: American power. There's no like instinct towards isolationism that exists

867
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 2: or has ever been demonstrated to exist within him.

868
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,399
Speaker 3: So yeah, is he like you know, he's the.

869
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 2: Type that will go on Fox News to talk about like, oh,

870
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 2: the military is too woke and we got to get

871
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,839
Speaker 2: rid of these DEI programs and whatever. And I'm sure

872
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 2: he will probably do some of that, and I'm sure

873
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,760
Speaker 2: that cultural conservatives will be happy with those efforts.

874
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 3: But if you're expecting.

875
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 2: Him to, you know, roll back our engagement in the

876
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 2: Middle East, or not get us entangled in new wars

877
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 2: in Asia or you know, visa via China and Taiwan,

878
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 2: this is not the person to pin those hopes on.

879
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 1: Maybe, I think again, I think the best case for

880
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 1: Pete is just not all that ideological and it's just

881
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:51,839
Speaker 1: going to do whatever he needs to do, which I'm

882
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: again I really think.

883
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 2: I don't know the guy, but I will say that

884
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 2: his whole career coming to prominence is like the thing

885
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 2: that he fought most aggressively for for the largest Barber's

886
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,799
Speaker 2: career was the Iraq War, staying in the Iraq War,

887
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 2: and his analysis of that as recently as twenty sixteen

888
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,399
Speaker 2: was like similar to the sort of like Vietnam Dead

889
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 2: enders of we could have won that war if it

890
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 2: hadn't been for the leadership class holding.

891
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 3: Us back, blah blah blah.

892
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 2: So that is you know, now he says he's opposed

893
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,240
Speaker 2: to it again, coming to that position later than people

894
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 2: like Jeb Bush, But in terms of his instincts and

895
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 2: his ideological inclination going into any of these conflicts, it's

896
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:34,959
Speaker 2: been in favor of them and wanting to be even

897
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 2: more aggressively engaged in all of these.

898
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 1: Various time I understand where Tracy and like, yeah, it

899
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 1: probably drives people crazy to say, oh, these people are Look,

900
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 1: anybody who thinks that there are some leftist howards in

901
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 1: people in the White House, you're wrong, baby.

902
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 2: But that is an isolationist instinct that is part and

903
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 2: parcel of the Republican Party that is represented in some

904
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 2: strains and has sometimes been signaled by Donald Trump himself.

905
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 3: And this is not that. That's all I'm saying.

906
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 1: Look, as one of the people who's probably way more

907
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,360
Speaker 1: in that category, I have no like. Again, we have

908
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 1: to estimate what our actual power is. Look at the

909
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: elected and moneyed forces. Do you see anybody who is

910
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: like that. The only quasi billionaire who holds views probably

911
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: even close to what I would like to see is

912
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 1: David Sachs. Okay, and guess what he is. He's the

913
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 1: AI cryptos are he's getting involved with the Yeah, he's

914
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 1: got nothing involved with this. David is a warrior. By

915
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 1: the way, I love that dude. He's actually very ideologically

916
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 1: consistent on these is. You can go watch my interview

917
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: with him previously about Israel and Gaza. Actual courage for

918
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,919
Speaker 1: somebody on the right for actor say that, what yeah, hey, listen,

919
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:41,800
Speaker 1: I'm ready.

920
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,280
Speaker 2: I'd rather I would go to batting the crypto bubba.

921
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,240
Speaker 1: I would absolutely go to bat for David Sachs. But again,

922
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 1: I have reality. He's the only guy who cut any

923
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 1: checks to Donald Trump who has those views. Every what

924
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 1: ninety nine percent of the other people who are cutting

925
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 1: checks are way more like Miriam Addilson and all of this.

926
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 2: Well, and this is This is where I appreciate you

927
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 2: because you didn't engage in some of the delusional thinking

928
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 2: that But I think a lot of people were convinced

929
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 2: by this idea that Donald Trump is quote unquote anti war,

930
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 2: and you just have to look realistically at the you know,

931
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:16,800
Speaker 2: the picks that he's put into place, and that agree

932
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 2: was never true. It's not true now and Pete hag

933
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,240
Speaker 2: Set is no p emblem of like, you know, rolling

934
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,399
Speaker 2: back American involvement in any region in the world.

935
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: The best case we could have under Donald Trump is

936
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 1: that he used to comes to the instinct of just

937
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: like kind of not getting involved in these things, and

938
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 1: then we don't get sucked in. I've been encouraged right

939
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 1: now by the tweets about Syria. That's good, right, let's

940
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: stay out of it. Great. I agree, well, let's do

941
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:39,839
Speaker 1: the same thing when it comes to Iran. He said

942
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 1: we don't want to see regime change in Iran. Wouldn't

943
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: have hired Mike Waltz in Rocko Rubio if that was

944
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 1: my position, But hey, he's the person who wants to

945
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,760
Speaker 1: be president. Will there be I don't give a damn

946
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,919
Speaker 1: if there's rhetorical bluster whatever. As long as we don't

947
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: actually get into an actual conflict on China and Taiwan.

948
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 1: He's actually said before, he's a direct quote. He's like,

949
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 1: if China takes Taiwan, there's not a fucking thing that

950
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: we can do about it. Direct quote apparently from Bob Woodward.

951
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 1: So these are the things that he says in private

952
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 1: and public. We'll see, we'll see what actually happens. I mean,

953
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 1: and that's why. Yeah, I mean, I agree. I'm not

954
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 1: going to mislead anybody and say, oh, definitely, it's one

955
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 1: hundred percent, it's a lock. I saw the guy get

956
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 1: rolled on Syria, on Afghanistan. I have full expectation that

957
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 1: all of that could certainly happen. Again, I think there's

958
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 1: a better chance than not. But I wouldn't tell anybody

959
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 1: with certainty. I think again that the best case with

960
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 1: heg seth here is look a lot of DII stuff.

961
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:35,879
Speaker 1: I know you don't care. I care how I want

962
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 1: to be gone. I want the force to be ready

963
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 1: to fight. I think it's a disgrace what happens with

964
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:40,959
Speaker 1: a lot of these plays.

965
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 2: I don't think it's it's not that I don't care,

966
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 2: it's just that I don't think it's that important, and

967
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 2: I think.

968
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 3: It's used as like.

969
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 2: A lot of times, like the CFPB example is a

970
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 2: good one with Mark injrieson going out and cloaking. What

971
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 2: is like this, you know, pro oligarch agenda basically in

972
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:00,359
Speaker 2: cultural conservatism. I just think it can be used as

973
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 2: a trojan horse for maintaining a status quo that Americans

974
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 2: just dramatically voted against.

975
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 3: So it's not that I because I.

976
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 2: Think these programs are not only silly, I genuinely think

977
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 2: they are destructive. The research shows they make people like

978
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 2: more have more racial animosity. They have you know, fattened

979
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 2: the wallets of a bunch of dishonest, like racist grifters.

980
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 3: Basically, so I.

981
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 2: Feel I do feel strongly about them. The reason that

982
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:30,359
Speaker 2: I roll my eyes when I hear people like had

983
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 2: Sat or Mark Andresen or whatever using wokeness as a

984
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:37,280
Speaker 2: crutch on everything.

985
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 3: I do feel like it can be used as.

986
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 2: Sort of like a trojan horse to smuggle in lots

987
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 2: of agenda items that are at times antithetical to what

988
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 2: Trump has claimed to be about, and certainly antithetical to

989
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:51,919
Speaker 2: what people thought they were getting when they voted for him.

990
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 3: That's what I would say.

991
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: That fair enough, And again you know, with him, what

992
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 1: I would like to say on what I think he

993
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: is going to do is actually purge a lot of

994
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 1: these HR bureaucrats from this place and actually restore it.

995
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 1: And I mean we have a morale crisis already. I mean,

996
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 1: if you guys don't want to have a draft, if

997
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 1: we ever get into a major war, then we need

998
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: to up recruitment. And right now it's a disaster.

999
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that is like, I mean, who wants to

1000
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:15,839
Speaker 2: sign up for some of the you know, like it's

1001
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 2: not like people a lot of people don't feel like

1002
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:21,279
Speaker 2: the are the Ukraine conflict or certainly what's being done

1003
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:23,320
Speaker 2: in gaz are like things that they feel proud to

1004
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:23,840
Speaker 2: be involved in.

1005
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 1: It.

1006
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 2: Look now I mentioned Iraq and Afghanistan at this point,

1007
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 2: it's like, you.

1008
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 1: Know, I'm with you one hundred percent same in terms

1009
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 1: of procurement and a lot of these others. The way

1010
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 1: that we run you know, Lockheed and all this stuff,

1011
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 1: it is a nightmare. That's one of the things so expcting.

1012
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:40,919
Speaker 1: If we could figure some of that out, I would

1013
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,760
Speaker 1: be very happy, and the less people who are involved

1014
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: in the managerial class over at the Pentagon. The better

1015
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: off that we are. Been reading a lot about the

1016
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 1: Pacific War these days, and oh my god, I mean,

1017
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:53,840
Speaker 1: when you read about the country that we used to

1018
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 1: be and the country are today, it's sickening. It's sickening

1019
00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 1: what has happened here. So and at the very least,

1020
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: I do think at Pete Hexa has some of those instincts,

1021
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:04,840
Speaker 1: and so I am happy that he's going to get confirmed.

1022
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 1: Definitely happier than having Ron DeSantis in there. I can

1023
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:12,799
Speaker 1: tell you that. Let's move on to Daniel Penny. All right,

1024
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,319
Speaker 1: So let's go ahead and put this up there on

1025
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: the screen. Daniel Penny was officially acquitted yesterday in the

1026
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:24,880
Speaker 1: quote unquote subway choke hold death of Jordan Neely quote unquote,

1027
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 1: sparking applause and uproar in the New York City courtroom. So,

1028
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 1: for those of you who don't remember, Daniel Penny was

1029
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 1: a Marine veteran who was riding the subway in twenty

1030
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:40,839
Speaker 1: twenty three where he was involved in an incident where

1031
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:45,400
Speaker 1: Jordan Neely, who was a homeless and mentally ill individual,

1032
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 1: was on the subway and was menacing and threatening fellow passengers.

1033
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 1: Penny and another passenger felt that they needed to restrain

1034
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 1: Neely because they thought that he was going to get violent,

1035
00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:59,799
Speaker 1: or I think he'd already participated in some violence when

1036
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: he was on the subway. Penny himself then argued that

1037
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 1: he was not liable for the voluntary manslaughter charge and

1038
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 1: then the criminally negligent manslaughter charge that was brought against

1039
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 1: him by New York City prosecutors. So for those again

1040
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 1: who don't remember, we have some video of the incident.

1041
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and play it.

1042
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:23,319
Speaker 5: On all counts. On Friday, the judge overseeing dismissed the

1043
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 5: more severe charge of second degree manslaughter, which carried a

1044
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 5: fifteen year maximum sentence, after the jury was onlived Now

1045
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 5: cis Agistrict attorney have argued that Penny knew his actions

1046
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 5: could kill Neely, but continued to recognize his humanity. The

1047
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 5: medical examiner concluded that the chokehold likely choke hold did

1048
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 5: kill Neely.

1049
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,359
Speaker 1: So, as you can see, this does also trace not

1050
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 1: only to that incident of what happened, but actually some

1051
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 1: of the background of this and you and I were

1052
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 1: talking a little bit about before this, but this is

1053
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 1: a systemic failure by the entire city of New York

1054
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:04,320
Speaker 1: because Jordan Neely was one of the fifty most known

1055
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:07,280
Speaker 1: people who quote unquote needed help and were at risk

1056
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 1: in the entire city of millions. He was well known

1057
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 1: to city administrators and to others. And in fact, there

1058
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 1: are a lot of people out there who are arguing, like, oh,

1059
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,359
Speaker 1: he never should have been on the subway, he should

1060
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 1: have been in treatment and offered shelter. Well, don't forget.

1061
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 1: New York City actually did offer him treatment and did

1062
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 1: offer him shelter, and he voluntarily departed it. He clearly

1063
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:30,839
Speaker 1: was a very at risk, mentally ill and disturbed individual

1064
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:35,799
Speaker 1: who had previously been cited in violent incidents against innocent bystanders.

1065
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 1: So this was somebody who was menacing people on the

1066
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 1: train and who was put a lot of people in

1067
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 1: a very difficult position because not only do you have

1068
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 1: somebody who is like a mentally ill vagrant who was

1069
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 1: menacing there, but the city, who's had multiple opportunities and

1070
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 1: identified this person, never took him into custody for his

1071
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,839
Speaker 1: own safety and the safety of others. And so just

1072
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 1: like in that chaos abhors a vacuum, and so what

1073
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 1: happened you have him who's on the train. He's menacing others,

1074
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 1: and then Penny and this other bystander get involved. Furthermore,

1075
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:09,839
Speaker 1: what we found out in the trial crystal. Because people

1076
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 1: are blaming Penny for Neelie's death, Neely was alive. Whenever

1077
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 1: the paramedics and others involved arrived on the scene, they

1078
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:21,359
Speaker 1: did not administer immediate treatment to him because they were

1079
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,760
Speaker 1: afraid that he had HIV and so they were afraid

1080
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:28,839
Speaker 1: of their own risk basically of taking care of him. Now, look,

1081
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 1: I think there probably are procedures and others that are

1082
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:33,360
Speaker 1: in place for that, but when you put that all together,

1083
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:36,799
Speaker 1: it is so obvious that charges never should have been

1084
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 1: brought here against Daniel Penny. And look, I understand this

1085
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:44,760
Speaker 1: is sensitive. People are trying to to this hero, villain, etc. Instead,

1086
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 1: can we all just calm down and understand that this

1087
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 1: is genuinely like a major systemic failure and that when

1088
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 1: you put people Neely and Penny and all these other

1089
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: people in an impossible position, then shit's gonna happen. So instead,

1090
00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 1: make sure that it doesn't happen. That's why we have governments.

1091
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:01,719
Speaker 1: Why else do people in the City of New York

1092
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:04,400
Speaker 1: pay forty five percent tax if not for something that

1093
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:06,239
Speaker 1: is like this. So that is my kind of take

1094
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:06,720
Speaker 1: on the studio.

1095
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, my take is very similar, and maybe that's unsatisfying

1096
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 2: to people, But I just think the whole, the whole

1097
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 2: situation is such a tragedy. You know, the passenger shouldn't

1098
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 2: have been put in that position, right, And I don't

1099
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 2: think Daniel Penny wanted to kill Jordan Neil. I mean

1100
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 2: to me, that's kind of the core in terms of

1101
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:28,359
Speaker 2: the legal case against him, is establishing that intent, Like

1102
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 2: did he did he have intent to kill his men?

1103
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 1: No?

1104
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 2: I think he thought he was doing the right thing. Now,

1105
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 2: I will say, watching the video like it is an

1106
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 2: awful thing to watch knowing that he ultimately dies, and

1107
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 2: you wish that, you know, the choke hold had been

1108
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 2: let up after you know, two minutes or three minutes,

1109
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 2: so that he had more of a chance to survive.

1110
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 2: I do think the paramedics, I mean, to not do

1111
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 2: that's your job. To not do your job is really

1112
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 2: quite negligent. But you know, I've been in situations where

1113
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:01,399
Speaker 2: you have someone who was clearly mentally ill and it

1114
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 2: was not as menacing as you know, Jordan Neely reportedly

1115
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:06,280
Speaker 2: was being like making direct threats.

1116
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 3: But it's it is a scary situation.

1117
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:10,759
Speaker 2: It is a frightening situation because you just don't know

1118
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 2: what this person is going to do. And I have

1119
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 2: to rely also on the other passengers who were on

1120
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 2: the train who felt said that they felt really threatened. Now,

1121
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:21,760
Speaker 2: I do think it's disturbing the language around Daniel Penney

1122
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 2: like he's a hero. I mean, he did take a

1123
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 2: man's life, whether he intended to or not. I just

1124
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 2: think your point is the most important one, saga that

1125
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 2: the whole situation is indicative of a massive system wide failure.

1126
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 2: I mean, Jordan Neely had a long record with the city,

1127
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 2: and by the way, the potential for violence was not

1128
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 2: a hypothetical one. He had previously been arrested for assault

1129
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:52,719
Speaker 2: and he was, you know, out he was supposed to

1130
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 2: be receiving treatment, taking anti psychotic medication, and he you know,

1131
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 2: violent that agreement, and so that's why there was actually

1132
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 2: an arrest warrant out for him at that time. And

1133
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 2: so yeah, I think, just you know, I think I

1134
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 2: wish he was alive today. I think you should be

1135
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 2: alive today. I think those passengers that shouldn't have been

1136
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 2: put in that situation. I think Daniel Penny shouldn't have

1137
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 2: been put in that situation either, And I don't think

1138
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 2: that it makes anything better to throw Daniel Penny ultimately

1139
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,760
Speaker 2: in prison. It doesn't change any of the systemic failures

1140
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:30,440
Speaker 2: that led to this absolutely horrifying and tragic chain of events.

1141
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 1: Exactly, don't put people in this position. That's the whole point.

1142
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,399
Speaker 1: And you know, that's why part of it was really

1143
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 1: terrifying too to see him get prosecuted, because you're just now,

1144
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 1: it's truly impossible. And I think about it all the time.

1145
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 1: You know, we live here in the city, and then

1146
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 1: you're in your car and somebody starts banging on the

1147
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 1: window or I mean literally at people almost individuals who

1148
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:53,839
Speaker 1: will like block your car and not let you move,

1149
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 1: trying to extract money from you. What do you do?

1150
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 1: You can't do anything.

1151
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:00,360
Speaker 3: I think it was I do disagree with you there.

1152
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:01,479
Speaker 3: I think it was fair.

1153
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 2: I think it was a difficult enough case that it

1154
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 2: was fair to to file charges and to allow a

1155
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:13,800
Speaker 2: jury of his peers to evaluate the evidence. And you know, ultimately,

1156
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 2: I think they based on the bulk of the evidence

1157
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 2: and their inability to you know, beyond a reasonable doubt

1158
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 2: come to the conclusion that he was guilty of I

1159
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 2: think the charge ultimate was manslaughter. That he was, and

1160
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:26,680
Speaker 2: we can get to the way the judge handle was too.

1161
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:29,239
Speaker 2: That's a motely but crazy too. But you know, I

1162
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:31,759
Speaker 2: think it was a difficult enough case and there wasn't

1163
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 2: enough there that it was worth going through the process

1164
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 2: and having a jury of his peers evaluate the situation

1165
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:40,279
Speaker 2: and come to a decision. I do think that that

1166
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 2: was probably the right process, and I also think that

1167
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 2: they probably came to the right outcome.

1168
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, but see that's where the thing is, Like, this

1169
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 1: is a twenty six year old guy. Now you know

1170
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 1: he's got all these BLM activists who are calling for

1171
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,400
Speaker 1: his assassination. What is he going to do for the

1172
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 1: rest of his life? You've got any written house. Basically,

1173
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:57,160
Speaker 1: you have two choices. You can move to Idaho and

1174
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:58,800
Speaker 1: hope you shave your head and hope.

1175
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 3: And nobody any conservative hero. So based out all kinds

1176
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:02,760
Speaker 3: of job.

1177
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:04,879
Speaker 1: Opportunities when they gave it. But that's what you don't

1178
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 1: want to be. They tried to interview him, he didn't

1179
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:09,440
Speaker 1: say anything. They let his lures, he didn't want to

1180
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:12,360
Speaker 1: be in this position. So yeah, they ruined his life.

1181
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:15,800
Speaker 1: Look at rittenhouse. The guys like hawking. But that's us.

1182
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 2: Really because charges were pressed though that's because of the

1183
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:22,000
Speaker 2: event itself. He was known, I mean, because they originally

1184
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 2: didn't press charges. Yeah, and he was you know, this

1185
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:27,919
Speaker 2: already was a real lightning rod case. So in any case,

1186
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 2: I mean, I do think that this was a sort

1187
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 2: of vindication of going through the process. Just to give

1188
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 2: you guys, because we mentioned the judge and I do

1189
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 2: want to say this was like a little weird the

1190
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 2: way to play down. So he was he had two

1191
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 2: charges against him, and the jury deadlocked on the higher charge. Correct, yes,

1192
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 2: And so there was somebody who you know, couldn't decide

1193
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 2: and they deadlocked, and so the judge sent them home

1194
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 2: and then brought them back and said, let's drop that

1195
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:05,000
Speaker 2: higher charge and now just deliberate on this lower charge.

1196
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 2: And on the lower charge they were able to come

1197
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 2: to the conclusion of not guilty. Now, you know, there

1198
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 2: was obviously a lot of social media reaction to the decision,

1199
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 2: and there was a lot of you know, conservative activism around.

1200
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 2: They were even you know, picking out which juror they

1201
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 2: thought was there was one that had two masks on

1202
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 2: there like that must be the guy that didn't want

1203
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 2: to find him not guilty whatever. So I'm sure these

1204
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 2: jurors probably saw a lot of the discussion online and

1205
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:36,880
Speaker 2: actually conservatives were initially enraged that the judge had taken

1206
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 2: this course of action because they thought that the judge

1207
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 2: was pushing and this may have been the case, by

1208
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:46,640
Speaker 2: the way, was pushing to get a guilty, a finding

1209
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 2: of guilty against Daniel Penny and then ultimately goes in

1210
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:53,800
Speaker 2: the other direction. And who knows whether you know, jurors

1211
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 2: taking in that social media firestorm over the weekend impacted

1212
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 2: the way that they were viewing the facts and the evidence.

1213
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:03,680
Speaker 2: But I do think it's fair to say, like the

1214
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 2: way that the judge annele is not like illegal or anything,

1215
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 2: but it does raise questions about whether they were able

1216
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:13,200
Speaker 2: to maintain the impartiality that is the goal of these

1217
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:13,800
Speaker 2: sorts of juries.

1218
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 1: And the situation is crazy because it was very obvious

1219
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 1: from the judge that he was trying to get them

1220
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:20,960
Speaker 1: to just come to a conclusion on the secondary charge,

1221
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 1: and they were probably you know, apparently what happens is

1222
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 1: in these situations is like, well, we can't be deadlocked again.

1223
00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 1: They're really pressing us for a decision. And let's say

1224
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 1: on the original one, at least some of the reporting

1225
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 1: I've seen, there were speculation that actually a majority wanted

1226
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 1: to find him not guilty on the higher charge, but

1227
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 1: there was like one holdout. Well, that person finally probably capitulated.

1228
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 1: I mean, but that's why this whole situation is crazy.

1229
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:46,200
Speaker 1: Like why is the judge, you know, basically making this

1230
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:50,320
Speaker 1: discretion to drop a charge you know from these prosecutors

1231
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:53,280
Speaker 1: file the judge allows them to all in the context

1232
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 1: of resolution, right, And it's like, well, if the jury

1233
00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 1: is deadlocked, and the jury's deadlocked, it happens all the time,

1234
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 1: you know, I is not. I think it's crazy the

1235
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:04,400
Speaker 1: amount of power some of these judges have with the

1236
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:07,040
Speaker 1: sentencing or with others. I learned some of this about

1237
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:10,240
Speaker 1: the whole Menendez case when I was learning about that,

1238
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 1: and like, a judge can just be like, oh, your

1239
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 1: entire defense, which got you a mistrial last time, Nope,

1240
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 1: you know, that's out the window. And then you tell

1241
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 1: the jury like you have to narrowly consider based on this,

1242
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: you can't consider anything else, and then they have no

1243
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:23,960
Speaker 1: choice but to vote guilty, which they didn't even want

1244
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 1: to do.

1245
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:27,439
Speaker 2: I think I think it's complicated though, because the other

1246
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 2: the argument in the other direction is like, when you

1247
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 2: have these you know, mandatory minimums and three strikes rules

1248
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 2: and whatever, then even in situations where people will look

1249
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 2: at it and be like, you know, this is every

1250
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:44,160
Speaker 2: case and every crime is very different, and so if

1251
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 2: you take all of the discretion out of the judge's hands,

1252
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 2: then you don't allow for any of that like variability

1253
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 2: and context and all of that to be factored in.

1254
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 2: So it is complicated. Like I can kind of see

1255
01:00:57,280 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 2: the case in both directions. But to your Pointzager, I

1256
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:02,200
Speaker 2: mean one of the things egregious that I noted in

1257
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 2: terms of the power of these judges and how corrupting

1258
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 2: it could be. And also, by the way, so many

1259
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:08,919
Speaker 2: these judges, when you talk about corporate cases and white

1260
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 2: collar crime, so many of them have conflicts of interest

1261
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:17,160
Speaker 2: based on their you know whatever stockholdings and investments and

1262
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:21,200
Speaker 2: their you know, spouses positions, et cetera. But putting that aside,

1263
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 2: the new Twitter terms of service require you to agree

1264
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 2: that if you have a beef with X, then you're

1265
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:32,480
Speaker 2: going to go through arbitration in this one specific court

1266
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:36,520
Speaker 2: in Texas that has been very favorable to Elon Musk

1267
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 2: and his interest and basically sees this as like, you know,

1268
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:42,960
Speaker 2: his personal company court. So there is there is a

1269
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:44,720
Speaker 2: problem with it, for sure, there is a problem with.

1270
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 1: That's and that's my point is that you know, judge,

1271
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 1: you know, it's literally known as judge shopping between the

1272
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:52,960
Speaker 1: business context. So anyway, I don't know always when I

1273
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 1: come away from this, do you look at the systems

1274
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:58,480
Speaker 1: that are in place? You look at the way that

1275
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 1: New York City basically failed, nearly failed Daniel Pennett, And really.

1276
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:05,520
Speaker 3: The mental health piece is really the think.

1277
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 1: About this, now, how many people on the way You've

1278
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:09,160
Speaker 1: been on the subway at probably five am, just like

1279
01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:12,320
Speaker 1: I have in the past. These are some hard working people, okay.

1280
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:16,200
Speaker 1: These are people who are coming in our long commute

1281
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:19,360
Speaker 1: to go clean office buildings and to be restaurant service

1282
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:21,840
Speaker 1: or whatever so that when the suits show up that

1283
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 1: they can come in and get served. And then the

1284
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:25,880
Speaker 1: same thing if you're on the subway at ten or

1285
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 1: eleven o'clock at night, Sure that some people were going

1286
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:30,080
Speaker 1: out or whatever, but by and large, these are very

1287
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:32,440
Speaker 1: very hard working folks. They pay a ton of taxes.

1288
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:34,800
Speaker 1: Nobody wants to be on the train for an hour

1289
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:37,560
Speaker 1: and all that. The very least you could probably guarantee

1290
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:40,520
Speaker 1: them is some safety. And in the last several years,

1291
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 1: every time you go to New York, the explosion of

1292
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 1: just like mentally ill, vagrant violence and just presence is shocking.

1293
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 1: And it's one of those where you're paying more than anything.

1294
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:53,160
Speaker 1: These people are being menaced on a daily basis, fear

1295
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:56,080
Speaker 1: for their lives. It is not right and especially not

1296
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:58,919
Speaker 1: right because the rich people all just leave, they move

1297
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:02,760
Speaker 1: to New Jersey. Ubers, yeah, or and in uber right

1298
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:06,880
Speaker 1: it can afford it. It's the janitors, the bartenders, all

1299
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:08,920
Speaker 1: of the other people who are service workers in New York.

1300
01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:10,720
Speaker 1: Those are the people who stuff for They have no

1301
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:13,720
Speaker 1: other option, and they're forced to pay more in tact

1302
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:16,520
Speaker 1: and to have a subpar experience, especially as the train

1303
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:19,680
Speaker 1: gets delayed in all this, and be menaced and not safe. Well,

1304
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:20,600
Speaker 1: and it's just not.

1305
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 2: Right, and it's not right for them, and it's not

1306
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 2: right for the you know, the people who have basically

1307
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:27,480
Speaker 2: been abandoned, you know, the Jordan Neelies of the world

1308
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:30,760
Speaker 2: as well, and our mental health. I'm actually talking a

1309
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:33,720
Speaker 2: little bit about those touch on it in my monologue today,

1310
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 2: But yeah, our mental health system is really quite atrocious

1311
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:43,600
Speaker 2: and rife with abuse and neglect, and a lot of

1312
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:47,520
Speaker 2: these psych words are for profit hospitals that are just

1313
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:49,960
Speaker 2: you know, they don't want to deal with the most

1314
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 2: difficult cases. Certainly, I also do think that in some

1315
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 2: instances we've gone it's important that people with mental health

1316
01:03:56,280 --> 01:04:00,400
Speaker 2: issues obviously deserve human rights in autonomy, et cetera, but

1317
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 2: you also have to have the ability when you have

1318
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:05,440
Speaker 2: someone who has a track record of being a danger

1319
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:08,160
Speaker 2: to others, like Jordan Neely did have that you have

1320
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 2: the ability to detain them, even if it is against

1321
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:15,440
Speaker 2: their will. And you know, I think that there was

1322
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 2: there was a move that went too far in the

1323
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:22,400
Speaker 2: direction of not allowing those type of holds to occur.

1324
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:25,480
Speaker 2: And you couple that with there just literally are not

1325
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 2: enough beds in psychiatric hospitals and the fact that you know,

1326
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:35,360
Speaker 2: because we have such a terrible healthcare system, people are

1327
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 2: completely disconnected from any sort of medical attention or care,

1328
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:41,800
Speaker 2: and all of these systemic issues just sort of, you know,

1329
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:44,480
Speaker 2: came to a head in this absolutely horrific and tragic

1330
01:04:44,520 --> 01:04:44,880
Speaker 2: incident