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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease.

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Speaker 2: Will Alex Murdogg somehow managed to finagle a new murder

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Speaker 2: trial in the cold blooded killings of his wife and son,

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Speaker 2: Paul and Mackie. Is that happening again? His son, his

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Speaker 2: living son. Buster Murdog denies involvement with Stephen Smith's death.

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Speaker 2: This as we have the result of yet a second

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Speaker 2: autopsy on Stephen Smith and we learn a rape kit

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Speaker 2: was conducted on the teen boy. All of this swirling

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Speaker 2: while the clerk to the court, Rebecca Hill, denies all

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Speaker 2: alligaces that she somehow tampered with the Alex Murdog jury.

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Speaker 2: What will a new autopsy reveal? Is it true that

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Speaker 2: teen boys Steven Smith actually died of a blow to

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Speaker 2: the head. I mean, I see, Grace, this is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories

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Speaker 2: and on series XXIM one eleven with me an all

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Speaker 2: star panel. But first I want to go out to

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Speaker 2: a special guest, Jennifer Wood, director of Research Fitznews dot Com.

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Speaker 2: Jennifer is Alex Murdog getting a new trial. Lord help

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Speaker 2: us all I know.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think every week the more that comes out,

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Speaker 3: the more I lean towards it. Being a possibility, but

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Speaker 3: there's still a lot of what if. We're still waiting

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Speaker 3: to hear which judge gets a signed over see it

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Speaker 3: by the Supreme Court. We're still waiting to hear if

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Speaker 3: there will be an evidentiary hearing.

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Speaker 4: But with the.

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Speaker 3: Arrest of Clerk of Court Becky Hill's son.

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Speaker 2: And just hell.

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Speaker 3: For wire capping, it's not looking great.

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Speaker 2: Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, explain that. Guys. We're

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Speaker 2: talking about Alex Murdock, the legal heir to an incredible

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Speaker 2: legal dynasty in South Carolina, who was charged and convicted

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Speaker 2: of double murder? Is he getting a new trial? And

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Speaker 2: a lot of it swirls around, and they dug deep,

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Speaker 2: the defense did, and they came up with a grounds

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Speaker 2: for reversal, or so they think, and that is that

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Speaker 2: somehow the Clerk of Court, Rebecca Hill, who I met,

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Speaker 2: she seemed very professional to me. I find it very

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Speaker 2: hard to believe she would do anything to tamper with

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Speaker 2: the jury. But their claim is she, let me just say,

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Speaker 2: goaded the jury into a quick verdict. Would you say

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Speaker 2: that's the claim, Jennifer Wood.

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Speaker 3: I think that's I think that's the gest of it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, joining me hip by a lawyer out of that

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Speaker 2: jurisdiction who is partner with the Bland Richter Law firm

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Speaker 2: and the lawyer for the Steven Smith family and the

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Speaker 2: Gloria Saderfield family, Ronnie Richter joining us. Ronnie, what do

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Speaker 2: you make of the defense claims by Alex Murdogg that

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Speaker 2: somehow the clerk of the court tamper with the jury

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Speaker 2: and there has to be a new trial.

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Speaker 5: I think it's problematic. I think if it is proven

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Speaker 5: true that Madame Clerk herself walked into the jury room

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Speaker 5: and said to the jurors that they're about to hear

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Speaker 5: testimony that they should disbelieve, I think that is presumed prejudicial.

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Speaker 5: I don't see any remedy other than the grant of

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Speaker 5: a new trial if that's proven to be true.

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Speaker 2: Let's analyze exactly what has been said, and let me

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Speaker 2: remind you. With me is doctor Kenneth Kinzie, the expert

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Speaker 2: on the murderin murder trial. Also with me doctor Michelle Dupre,

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Speaker 2: who can tell us everything available to the public right

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Speaker 2: now regarding the second autopsius even Smith, including his cause

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Speaker 2: of death. Todd Shipley with me, cyber crime expert and author,

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Speaker 2: and Karen Stark with us renowned psychologist. But Jennifer would,

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Speaker 2: I want to back it up to the claim that

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Speaker 2: Becky Hill somehow taking the jury exactly what is the

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Speaker 2: defense arguing.

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Speaker 3: So the defenses arguing that in you know, during the

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Speaker 3: time that the jury wasn't paneled, that she said things

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Speaker 3: like watch Alex's body language when he was testifying, and

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Speaker 3: you know other things that could have been prejudicial to

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Speaker 3: the jury. But you know, some Jersey that they never

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Speaker 3: saw that happen. Some jurorsay she did say that.

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Speaker 2: Well, let me understand one more thing, Jennifer would, is

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Speaker 2: this allegation coming from the juror that was and her

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Speaker 2: ex husband that was thrown off the jury?

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Speaker 3: One of them, Yes, one of those, one of those jurors.

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Speaker 3: Is that juror the ag jurors how we refer to her,

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Speaker 3: because when she was leaving, she asked to bring a

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Speaker 3: dozen eggs with her.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I was there for that, and I think the

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Speaker 2: judge didn't understand what she was saying at first, as

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Speaker 2: many of us did not. She wanted to go back

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Speaker 2: into the jury deliberation room to get the eggs she

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Speaker 2: had brought in that morning for the jury. She did

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Speaker 2: not want the jury to have the eggs, the twelve eggs,

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Speaker 2: since she was getting throw off the jury. That's the

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Speaker 2: only way I could take that is that if I

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Speaker 2: can't have them, no one will. So she was given

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Speaker 2: permission to go back in the jury deliberation room to

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Speaker 2: get her eggs. Now hold on. She was already thrown

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Speaker 2: off the jury, so I would argue that would tain

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Speaker 2: her credibility. But how does her ex husband fit into it?

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Speaker 2: Jennifer Wood, So her ex I.

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Speaker 3: Mean, this is all, this is all convoluted. But allegedly

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Speaker 3: her ex husband, the Clerk of Court Becky Hill, saw

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Speaker 3: a Facebook post on a local Facebook group that her

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Speaker 3: ex husband had made that she was speaking about Alex

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Speaker 3: Murdoch and his guilt are innocence outside of the jury room,

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Speaker 3: and she reported that to Judge a Newman. But that

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Speaker 3: really wasn't ultimately why she was dismissed. She was dismissed

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Speaker 3: because she had spoken to some tenants of hers when

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Speaker 3: she was delivering refrigerator over the weekend about Alex Murdoch's

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Speaker 3: guilt or innocence and they were brought in to you know,

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Speaker 3: they completed Daffi davits when we're brought in to testify

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Speaker 3: under oath about that in camera.

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Speaker 2: Wow, and what was it? She allegedly said to them.

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Speaker 3: She was just you know, espousing whether or not she

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Speaker 3: believed Alex was guilty or innocent before the end of

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Speaker 3: the trial. But you know they're not supposed to talk outside.

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Speaker 2: Of absolutely not joining us is Ronnie rich her high

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Speaker 2: profile lawyer with Lann Richterard there in South Carolina. Ronnie,

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Speaker 2: there has to be an evidentiary hearing for all I

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Speaker 2: know they've already had one behind closed doors, but we

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Speaker 2: haven't heard about it yet. There has to be an

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Speaker 2: evidentiary hearing to make a record in case any trial

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Speaker 2: is not granted so the appeals court can review the evidence.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, no, Dot, And I can tell you there has

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Speaker 5: been no evidentiary hearing. And I know that because we

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Speaker 5: currently represent four of the jurors who deliberated on the

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Speaker 5: murder conviction. You may recall that there was a point

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Speaker 5: in time where Dick Carpoutlian had gone public about this

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Speaker 5: and made some comment to the effect that if you're

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Speaker 5: on that jury, you might want a lawyer up And

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Speaker 5: so we extended our services for free to anybody who

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Speaker 5: felt like they wanted.

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Speaker 2: To now, why did the defense attorney Hartputlin or one

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Speaker 2: of them anyway he had a fleet. Why did they

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Speaker 2: tell the jurors they needed to get lawyers?

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Speaker 5: I don't know. We've thought it was stunning to say

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Speaker 5: such a thing, that there's no legal exposure for anybody

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Speaker 5: on that jury, but to the extent any of them

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Speaker 5: felt concerned by that. We threw it out there to

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Speaker 5: the world that we're happy to do that for free,

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Speaker 5: and so far for jerors have signed up. So I

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Speaker 5: could tell you there's been no evidentary hearing. At any

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Speaker 5: evidentary hearing, all of the jurors will be unpaneled and

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Speaker 5: question about what they heard back in the deliberations.

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Speaker 2: Well, I know this, I know the cleric. Becky Hill

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Speaker 2: has denied any jury tampering allegations. She has spoken out.

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Speaker 2: She says she did not tell them to watch Alex

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Speaker 2: mrnag that they should reach a quick verdict, that she

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Speaker 2: did not speak to them singly or as a group.

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Speaker 2: So I got away what she's saying against what the

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Speaker 2: juror I want my eggs juror is saying. And Jennifer Wood,

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Speaker 2: are you telling me? Other jurors agree that Becky Hill

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Speaker 2: tampered with their process of reaching a verdict.

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Speaker 3: So I believe in the state's response they included statements

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Speaker 3: from most of the jurors except for Wine, and there

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Speaker 3: were two other jurors that that she I don't know

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Speaker 3: that they specifically said she had, but that they had

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Speaker 3: heard outside of the courtroom to watch Alex's body language

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Speaker 3: while he was testifying.

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Speaker 2: They can't just make a blanket allegation that somebody somewhere

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Speaker 2: told them to watch his body language. I mean, that's

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Speaker 2: not going to hold any water. Ronnie Richter. You've got

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Speaker 2: to have a name, a direct allegation, and then that

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Speaker 2: direct allegation has to be weighed in court and tested

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Speaker 2: thrown across examination to determine did it happen, and if

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Speaker 2: it did happen, did it affect their impartiality. It's not

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Speaker 2: just did it happen? For all I know, they could

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Speaker 2: ride by a billboard and see one eight hundred number

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Speaker 2: for tips on the murder eye case. Someone could have

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Speaker 2: yelled out on their visit to Moselle, the jury visit

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Speaker 2: to the scene of the crime, Hey he did it.

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Speaker 2: But did that affect their verdict? It's not just did

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Speaker 2: it happen, Ronnie, it did it affect their verdict? Ronnie Richter, Well,

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Speaker 2: I think.

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Speaker 5: You're one hundred percent right there. Without violating any privilege,

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Speaker 5: I can't tell you the folks we represent will not

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Speaker 5: support any allegation of jury tampering. I do think, however, though,

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Speaker 5: that if they can prove this allegation.

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Speaker 2: Oh there's going to be a new trial.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, there's going to be a new trial. It's going

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Speaker 5: to be presumed prejudicial. So I don't think we get

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Speaker 5: to the cut about, you know, did it affect the

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Speaker 5: outcome or not. I think the jury tampering itself is

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Speaker 5: so prejudicial to the process that we have to throw

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Speaker 5: out the result. But the question is, can they prove

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Speaker 5: this actually happened exactly exactly?

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Speaker 2: Okay, this is what I'm saying. If I have to

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Speaker 2: weigh credibility like the judge will, and like an appellate

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Speaker 2: court will, you have to decide between you know, a

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Speaker 2: morphous claims. Somebody told me to watch body language that

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Speaker 2: that's not going to cut it. It's got to be

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Speaker 2: something firm. There's got to be a irick speaker. It

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Speaker 2: has to be tested in court and shown in court.

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Speaker 2: But if it is shown, then there will be a

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Speaker 2: new trial. So you've got to weigh the credibility between

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Speaker 2: the court clerk, Rebecca Hill, and what they I want

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Speaker 2: my ex guror is saying that's how that's gonna go down.

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Speaker 2: But now onto another another twist and Alex murder case.

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Speaker 2: Does it ever end? For Pete's sake? First of all,

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Speaker 2: take a listen to this.

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Speaker 4: Camp to County. Down on one where's your emergency?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I'm just going down it Croconveal Road.

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Speaker 6: Somebody laying out.

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Speaker 4: What road are you? Looking a name of the highway

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Speaker 4: that you're on?

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Speaker 7: I look at Crocoville Road, get known as Crocodill Room.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, hold on, just taking and which way you headed? Okay?

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Speaker 6: Think we thronson?

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Speaker 7: Uh huh yeah, okay, you on that road just before

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Speaker 7: you get into Crockettville.

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Speaker 4: Je Crockoville. Make that right.

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Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 4: Camping County. Now one way's your emergency?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Uh, I just calling down a wrong Crockaville Road.

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Speaker 8: Ye.

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Speaker 4: See, somebody laying out what road are you? What's the

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Speaker 4: name of the highway that you're on?

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Speaker 6: Ah?

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Speaker 4: I know it's Crocoville Road. Kids know it's Crocottville Road.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, hold on, and which way you headed?

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Speaker 4: Okay?

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Speaker 6: Uh, thank we had a good uh ladys.

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Speaker 7: Uh huh yeah, okay you on that road just before

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Speaker 7: you get into Crockettville.

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Speaker 4: Jerry Carton be there right.

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Speaker 2: You are hearing the nine on one call out of

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Speaker 2: Hampton County regarding the discovery of the body of Stephen Smith.

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Speaker 2: As you will recall, Stephen Smith, a teen boy that

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Speaker 2: lived in the area, was found dead not too far

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Speaker 2: from the same location Mozelle, that is the Murdoch Hunting Lodge,

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Speaker 2: and the Murdoch family has been forever hounded my claims

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Speaker 2: somehow they were part of this. And Stephen Smith's mother,

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Speaker 2: Miss Smith, I want to thank you so much for

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Speaker 2: being with us. First of all, I want you to

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Speaker 2: tell us what it has been like for you to

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Speaker 2: finally have been taken seriously regarding an all topsy for

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Speaker 2: your son.

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Speaker 6: Yeah. So at the beginning, it was just me crying,

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Speaker 6: you know, with begging people and nobody would listen. And

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Speaker 6: finally we got to go fund me to do what

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Speaker 6: I've always wanted to do, and that was to get

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Speaker 6: a second opinion on his autopsy. I was absolutely surprised

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Speaker 6: of how quick to go. Fund me grew and we

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Speaker 6: were able to take part of that money and start

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Speaker 6: a scholarship in Stephen's name. And right now, that's the

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Speaker 6: best part of this adventure that I've been going through with.

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Speaker 2: Us, is Steven Smith's mother. You never believed he was

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Speaker 2: hit by a car.

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Speaker 6: Why because he wouldn't have been in the roads. He

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Speaker 6: was very skittish of people, and if there was a

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Speaker 6: car coming, he would have hit in that cornfield or

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Speaker 6: and they would He would not have voluntarily walk down

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Speaker 6: that highway. And he had a cell phone. He would

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Speaker 6: have called his twin sister. His wallet was in the car,

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Speaker 6: and if you're walking to go get gash, you would

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Speaker 6: not leave your money in the car because the only

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Speaker 6: thing on him was his cell phone and his car key.

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Speaker 2: What happened the night that Stephen Smith was killed? His

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Speaker 2: body found a stone's throw from the Murdog family hunting lodge.

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Speaker 2: What do we know? Take a list at our cut

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Speaker 2: sixty five.

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Speaker 9: Neither Sandy Smith nor the investigators with the South Carolina

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Speaker 9: Highway Patrol believed that Stephen Smith had been hit by

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Speaker 9: a car. The initial incident report noted Smith had suffered

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Speaker 9: blunt force trauma to the head, and while Smith's body

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Speaker 9: was lying on the center lying of the roadway, the

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Speaker 9: responding officer saw no evidence of a vehicle accident. His

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Speaker 9: notes indicate there was no vehicle debris, skid marks, or

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Speaker 9: injuries consistent with someone being struck by a vehicle. Also,

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Speaker 9: Smith's shoes were on both his feet and loosely tied.

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Speaker 9: After the pathologist autopsy, at least two investigators disagreed with

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Speaker 9: the hit and run determination. Their notes also indicate the

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Speaker 9: County corner disagreed with the finding as well.

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Speaker 2: And there's more from the South Carolina Highway Patrol Lieutenant

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Speaker 2: Thomas Moore speaks out.

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Speaker 9: A former South Carolina Highway Patrol Lieutenant Thomas Moore responded

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Speaker 9: to the scene the day Stephen Smith's body was found

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Speaker 9: on a Hampton County road, and he tells WJCL that

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Speaker 9: he knew at the beginning the nineteen year old Smith

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Speaker 9: was murdered. He further claims that sled, the sheriffs and

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Speaker 9: the Hampton County Corner's office didn't do their jobs that day.

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Speaker 9: It took new evidence in the murdaw murders to bring

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Speaker 9: about a reclassification from the hit and run that Moore

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Speaker 9: says was never right to the homicide that he believes

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Speaker 9: it always should have been. Moore says it didn't appear

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Speaker 9: Smith was hit by a car, his road rash was minor,

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Speaker 9: his shoes were still on his feet. Moore says he

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Speaker 9: took the case as far as he could and nothing

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Speaker 9: happened until.

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Speaker 2: Now with me and Allstar to make sense of what

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Speaker 2: we're learning right now, including doctor Michelle Dupree, who oversaw

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Speaker 2: the second autopsy on teen boys Stephen Smith, and Dodger

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Speaker 2: Kenneth Kenzie, forensic expert in the Murdoch murder trial. He's

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Speaker 2: shot to fame, then former Orangeburg County Chief deputy, now

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Speaker 2: owner operator of Kenny Kenzie and associates former SLED special

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Speaker 2: agent Dodger Kenneth Kenzie. What do you make of the

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Speaker 2: findings that Steven's the original findings that Steven Smith died.

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Speaker 10: Of a hit and run, Well, Nancy, I think I

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Speaker 10: think that battle is a battle that's seen a lot

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Speaker 10: in our state where you know, highway patrol, is it theirs,

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Speaker 10: is it the Sheriff's office? Is it the local authorities?

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Speaker 10: And I'm used to that battle and I'm not even

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Speaker 10: going to say it's wrong because you're trying to ensure

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Speaker 10: proper jurisdiction in an incident like this, and unfortunately it

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Speaker 10: gets passed around because those jurisdictions and responsible abilities aren't

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Speaker 10: highlighted enough in our legislation. But as far as Stephen

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Speaker 10: death is concerned, this is an atypical incident. And though

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Speaker 10: I agree, and you know, I come into this thing

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Speaker 10: with an open mind, the evidence is what the evidence is.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you didn't answer at all. Do you think he

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Speaker 2: died of a hit and run or no? Let me

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Speaker 2: help you along, doctor Kenneth Kenzie with doctor Michelle d Pre.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to politely cut you off before you give

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Speaker 2: an answer you may want to change in five minutes.

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Speaker 2: Oh but hey, before I got to doctor d Pre,

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Speaker 2: Doctor Kenzie, I sat through the trial. I heard the evidence,

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Speaker 2: and it's very difficult for me to believe that anyone

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Speaker 2: of sound mind can actually believe that Alex Murdock is innocent.

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Speaker 2: Now there's some wild kakamami theory floating around that he

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Speaker 2: owed drug debts and that the you know, unnamed anonymous

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Speaker 2: drug lord killed Maggie and Paul and made him watch. Okay,

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Speaker 2: you don't think that big cry Baby would blurt that

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Speaker 2: out between then and now mrnogue would he'd be telling

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Speaker 2: that in a New York minute, Kenzie. It's just like

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Speaker 2: the same thing with oj Simpson. Let's see, there's the

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Speaker 2: theory that the son did it. There's a theory that

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Speaker 2: dopers did it. Oh, there's so many theories. None of

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Speaker 2: them are grounded in fact. Do you actually meet people,

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Speaker 2: doctor Kenzie that believe Mernogue didn't do it.

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Speaker 10: I do, Nancy, and generally their their thought process is

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Speaker 10: a parent won't kill the child. And we know that's

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Speaker 10: not true. We see it all the time.

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Speaker 2: You know, I would go to Ronnie Richter right now,

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Speaker 2: but I don't think I like what I would hear.

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Speaker 2: Let me go to something grounded in fact, doctor Michelle

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Speaker 2: Duprey joining me renew pathologist, medical examiner, form detective, author

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Speaker 2: of Money, Mischief and Murder, the Murdoch Saga. The rest

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Speaker 2: of the story. It's on Amazon. I've started reading your book,

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Speaker 2: and sometimes it's painful, doctor dupre because I'm having to

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Speaker 2: relive all the bs the defense floated during that trial.

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Speaker 2: But that said, it's wonderfully written. You are also the

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Speaker 2: author of Homicide investigation field Guide. Doctor Dupree, you supervised

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Speaker 2: the second autopsy of teen boy Stephen Smith, and it

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Speaker 2: took his mother, Sandy, who is with us, a years

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Speaker 2: to get the money for a new autopsy. And if

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Speaker 2: it had not been for the bland Richter Law firm,

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Speaker 2: it may never have happened, because they really put it

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Speaker 2: out there that she's trying to raise money. It did happen.

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Speaker 2: Tell me, doctor Dupree, about exhuming his body, taking it

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Speaker 2: for a new autopsy, and what, if anything you can

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Speaker 2: tell us. First of all, tell me about the exhumation

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Speaker 2: of the body.

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Speaker 11: I thought it was going to be a very sad

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Speaker 11: day and I was so surprised that it was not.

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Speaker 11: It was a joyous occasion. Sandy was there, some family

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Speaker 11: members were there. Of course, Sled was there at the

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Speaker 11: funeral home, and she was so happy that this was

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Speaker 11: actually happening. I just can't say enough about how strong

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Speaker 11: she was. And the exclamation took place without incident. Slid

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Speaker 11: was there. We took the body immediately from the cemetery

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Speaker 11: in the vault that it was in. We took it

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Speaker 11: to the vault company and took the casket out of

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Speaker 11: the vault and immediately transported it with the Sled escort

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Speaker 11: all the way to Tampa, Florida.

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Speaker 2: Why didn't you feel that his body needed a Slid escort.

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Speaker 11: Because we wanted to maintain a chain of custody. We

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Speaker 11: didn't know what we were going to find, and we

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Speaker 11: want we wanted to start from the beginning. We wanted

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Speaker 11: to look at any and every possibility and not be

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Speaker 11: clouded by oh, this is just an exhamation. We wanted

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Speaker 11: to do this right, and we did.

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Speaker 2: Tell me about the autopsy itself. Where was it conducted,

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Speaker 2: how was it conducted, Tell me the whole thing.

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Speaker 11: Okay, it was conducted in Tampa, Florida by a forensically

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Speaker 11: trained pathologist. We took the body in the casket. We

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Speaker 11: did not open the casket until we got to the

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Speaker 11: facility where the autopsy would be done. Slid was there

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Speaker 11: the entire time, as was I. We photographed everything, We

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Speaker 11: documented every procedure and everything that was done. Sled was

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Speaker 11: even in the autopsy suite during the autopsy, as was

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Speaker 11: I taking the photographs and documenting the evidence. And we

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Speaker 11: did a complete and when I say complete, I mean

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Speaker 11: from head to toe. We did the exact same thing

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Speaker 11: that you would do if it was the first autopsy.

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Speaker 11: It was a little more difficult because of course the

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Speaker 11: organs had already been examined, as had the body, But

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Speaker 11: we were still able to get a complete and thorough

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Speaker 11: second autopsy and get all the information that we needed.

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Speaker 2: Who performed as you supervised? Who performed the autopsy?

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Speaker 11: A forensic pathologist named Daniel Schultz in Tampa.

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Speaker 2: And what is his background?

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Speaker 11: He is again forensically trained in board certified. He has

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Speaker 11: been in practice for several years. When I worked in Miami,

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Speaker 11: I actually knew of him. I did not work with him,

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Speaker 11: but he is well respected in the community and has

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Speaker 11: been practicing for a long time.

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Speaker 2: Are you happy with your results?

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Speaker 11: Absolutely?

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Speaker 2: And who else was in the room?

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Speaker 11: There were fled agents that had accompanied us. Three flood

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Speaker 11: agents accompanied us all the way from the grave site

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Speaker 11: to Tampa and then all the way back to the

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Speaker 11: grave site that same weekend.

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Speaker 2: How long did the autopsy take? Doctor d Frees?

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Speaker 11: The autopsy took approximately six hours, and after that we

401
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 11: looked at the findings. We discussed the results that we

402
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 11: had so far. Some tests were still pending and we

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Speaker 11: received those at a later date and received a report

404
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Speaker 11: from doctor Schultz, as well as I submitted my notes

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Speaker 11: on she slid the same thing.

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Speaker 2: Now, isn't it true that you found a seven and

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Speaker 2: a half inch fracture on Stephen Smith's.

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Speaker 11: Skull on his right forehead?

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Speaker 2: Yes, on his right forehead. What's the significance of it

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00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:27,719
Speaker 2: being on his right front? Now you're saying his right front,

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00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 2: not as you're looking at it, but his right front.

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Speaker 11: That's correct, his right front, right.

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Speaker 2: Above the eye, right above his right eye, going back

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Speaker 2: or going to the side, going upward seven and a

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Speaker 2: half inches. Is that correct?

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Speaker 11: Yes?

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Speaker 2: I know you said he's got a seven and a

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Speaker 2: half inch skull fracture on the right side, starting above

419
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 2: his right eye and going upward and backward. Did that

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Speaker 2: cause a brain injury?

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00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 11: That in and of itself did not?

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Speaker 2: Did he have a brain inch?

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Speaker 11: Yes?

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Speaker 4: He did.

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Speaker 2: Would that technically be the cause of death? Injury to

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Speaker 2: the brain?

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Speaker 11: Blunt force trauma? I had trauma that did cause jury

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Speaker 11: to the brain.

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Speaker 4: Yes.

430
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Speaker 2: So when you have blunt force trauma to the skull

431
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Speaker 2: and the brain, why does that kill you? Does the

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Speaker 2: brain quit telling the body to perform it?

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Speaker 11: Does? There's several different mechanisms, and the one in this

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00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 11: case was because there was such a significant damage to

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00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 11: be what we call the basilar skull, which is an

436
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 11: inside where the brain sits on top of that skull

437
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,239
Speaker 11: was fractured like an eggshell, and so this was an

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Speaker 11: unsurvivable event. It causes brain swelling, it causes some bleeding,

439
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Speaker 11: it causes death almost instantaneously.

440
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 2: To Sandy Smith, this is Stephen Smith's mother, You had

441
00:25:53,880 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 2: long believed that your son Stephen had been tortured. Were

442
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 2: you surprised by doctor Dupre's autopsy findings?

443
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 6: I don't know much, but I do know that doctor

444
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 6: Dupree told me and comforted me in knowing that Stephen

445
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 6: was unconscious, so he didn't realize what was going on,

446
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 6: and that kind of because I always thought he went

447
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 6: through torture, you know. So she did put my heart

448
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 6: to rest on that part knowing he didn't suffer.

449
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 2: And what do you mean by that, doctor Duprie, that

450
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 2: he didn't suffer, Nancy.

451
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 11: When he was initially struck on the front of the

452
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 11: head and pushed down to the pavement and a secondary

453
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 11: fracture caused that significant damage, he would have been unconscious.

454
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 11: We do think that he was breathing just for moments

455
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 11: until his death.

456
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 2: Sandy Smith, Stephen's mother, waited eight years to hear that,

457
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 2: Miss Smith exactly.

458
00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 6: And it's like I waited eight years to hear those

459
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 6: words that I was right, you know, not that I

460
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 6: wanted to be right, but I wanted, you know, a

461
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 6: little piece of my heart knowing that what I said

462
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 6: was the truth. And now I have people in my

463
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 6: corner that is willing to help fight for Stephen. Stephen

464
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 6: says was not in vain. There's going to be some

465
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 6: good that comes out of this.

466
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 2: To Karen Start joining us or now psychologist, TV radio

467
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 2: trauma expert and consultant at Karenstart dot Com, Karen with

468
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 2: the Sea, Karen, it's horrible enough to lose someone you love,

469
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 2: then to learn that you've lost them through a horrible,

470
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 2: horrible act like the loss of teen boy Stephen Smith.

471
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 2: Was he targeted because he's gay? Was he in a

472
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,360
Speaker 2: relationship with someone that wanted to keep it a secret?

473
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 2: Is that why he was killed? What happened that night?

474
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 2: Can you imagine Karen Stark not really knowing what happened

475
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 2: to your child?

476
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,479
Speaker 12: Oh, I can't think of anything worse. We know, Nancy

477
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 12: that when it comes to children, and that kind of death,

478
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 12: of premature death.

479
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 11: Your children are.

480
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 12: Not supposed to die before you, They're supposed to outlive you,

481
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 12: so torturous for her, and not knowing details, and really

482
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 12: having that instinct that only a mother has that something happened,

483
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 12: that it was different, that she really needed to know

484
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 12: what the true facts were. So I think I can't

485
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 12: think of anything worse than what you went through, honestly,

486
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 12: And I'm so.

487
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 2: Sorry Sandy Smith speaking out now that bland Richter, the

488
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 2: law firm, has pushed her gofundmeate to get justice for

489
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 2: her son. Doctor Michelle Duprey personally oversaw the autopsy. It

490
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 2: had to be so incredible disappointing at the time for

491
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 2: even people within the investigation in the pathologist office did

492
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 2: not agree on your son's.

493
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 6: Death right and it was I know, the maight teams,

494
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 6: you know, tried, but they're not homicide investigators, so there

495
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 6: was only little that they could really do. But my

496
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 6: biggest problem was slid had his body and just turned

497
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 6: it back over to the Highway Control knowing that it

498
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 6: was not a hit RN. So I mean it was

499
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 6: his death. Investigation was screwed up from the beginning and

500
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 6: nobody answering my cause, you know, so I said, well,

501
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 6: all right, the Department of Justice, all right, FBI, all right, whoever?

502
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 6: I at you, because its death investigation is not getting

503
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 6: the attention it needs. And here we are, eight years later,

504
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 6: going on nine soon, and he's human. No matter whether

505
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 6: he was gay straight, I didn't care. But he was

506
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 6: my son and I loved him, and somebody took him

507
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 6: from me, and I was gonna fight, and I will

508
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 6: fight until I take my last breath.

509
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 2: They struggle for eight years to get the second autopsy,

510
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 2: had to take a horrible, horrible toll on you.

511
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 6: It's been hard and struggle. But now that I've gotten

512
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 6: that second autopsy and a new team working his chased

513
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 6: steel a little bit more at ease, put that part

514
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 6: of my heart I'll never get back.

515
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: I'm stories with Nancy Grace.

516
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 2: Joining me is Todd G. Shipley, digital cybercrime expert, former

517
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 2: detective sergeant author. I'm investigating Internet crimes and introduction to

518
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 2: Solving Crimes in Cyberspace. Todd Shipley, thank you for being

519
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 2: with us. You can find him at dark intel dot info. Todd,

520
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 2: how could and it's eight years later? How could digital

521
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 2: evidence help improve what happened in the Steven Smith case.

522
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 8: Well, from reviewing the publicly available documents, there's a lot

523
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 8: that probably could be determined from it. The phone still exists.

524
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 8: I don't know where the other items still exist, the iPad,

525
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 8: the computer that are listed as evidence, but I didn't

526
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 8: find reports of law enforcement actually going through those things

527
00:31:54,840 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 8: to determine any potential probable cause for why this occurred.

528
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 8: There's a whole lot of events I think it can

529
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,959
Speaker 8: glean from it. It was unfortunate though, that in reviewing

530
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 8: the reports that they made requests six months later for

531
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 8: some of the information from Verizon that should have been

532
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 8: appropriately requested at the time, because the records they're looking

533
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 8: for don't last on those networks very long, and so

534
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 8: I didn't see a great effort by law enforcement to

535
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 8: identify the potential for this digital elevens to show where

536
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 8: he was that night, and the cell phone was going

537
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 8: to show that. I know there was some looking at

538
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 8: a social media too. There's a whole lot of information

539
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 8: that was not obtained that could be very instrumental and

540
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 8: identifying what occurred that night.

541
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 2: Wow, Okay, straight out to doctor Kenneth Kenzie, forensic expert

542
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 2: in the Murdoch murder trial, former county chief Deputy in

543
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 2: Orangeburg and now owner operator Kenny Kensey and associate's LLC

544
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 2: doctor Kinsey. What do you make of that? Is there

545
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 2: any way to put Humpty Dumpty back together again? Eight

546
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 2: years later?

547
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 10: Nancy is always valigible and someone knows some details. Definitely

548
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 10: the computer work and the data on those devices, it's

549
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 10: always there. I mean, it does go away, but I

550
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 10: mean there are people that know. And as I've said

551
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 10: all along, there's someone out there that knows the details of.

552
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 2: This, but that's someone has been out there all along.

553
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 2: To Ronnie Richter, the someone that knows what happened to

554
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 2: Steven Smith has been out there for eight years and

555
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 2: hasn't come forward. So how were were going to dig

556
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 2: him up now? Ronnie?

557
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 5: Well, I think it's going to be the worst kept

558
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 5: secret in Hampton County. So whether it's one or more

559
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 5: people who are involved in this, it's a secret that

560
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 5: would be too big to keep. So we know that

561
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 5: whoever was involved has told other people. And I think

562
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 5: the push here is that with as much pressure as

563
00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 5: you can apply, it's someone to break. Finally, I mean,

564
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 5: if there are people out there with material information and

565
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 5: they are not forthcoming, they could face their own charges

566
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 5: for instruction. So that's kind of the approach. When we

567
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:12,919
Speaker 5: got engaged with Sandy, and we've met her a long

568
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 5: time ago with Ciderfield family, and she broke our hearts,

569
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 5: but we finally got engaged, the approach was, let's just

570
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 5: try to start from zero, you know, let's ex zoom

571
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 5: his body. Let's get the best team we can to

572
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 5: doctor Breed, doctor Kinzie. Let's start as if this was

573
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,359
Speaker 5: the beginning of the investigation. And I will say that

574
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 5: Sledd has poured all his resources back into this, and

575
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 5: we know that they're engaged and hopefully, with time and pressure,

576
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:37,359
Speaker 5: somebody's going to break.

577
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 11: Man.

578
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 2: I hope you're right. And of course there's always the

579
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 2: rumor swirling that somehow the Murlach family is involved, and

580
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 2: there are so many dead bodies connected to the Murdaud family,

581
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 2: and let's just say it's not a leap of fate

582
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 2: to think that somehow they're involved, and especially with Stephens's

583
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 2: body being found not too far from Mosia the Murdoch

584
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 2: hunting lodge. But so far, that's all it is. Rumors.

585
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:11,240
Speaker 2: Can't try a case on rumors and everyone searching for answers,

586
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 2: including Stephen's mother, Miss Sandy Smith. What do you make

587
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 2: of it, Sandy?

588
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 6: Well, when I first heard that it was the Murdock boys,

589
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,800
Speaker 6: there's a bunch of Murdock boys, I didn't know which

590
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 6: group of Murdochs they were talking about until Buster's name

591
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:32,879
Speaker 6: kept coming up, and in my mind, I didn't see

592
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 6: any reason why that's family would even be associated with

593
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 6: my son. I meant, Stephen and Stephane went to school

594
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,839
Speaker 6: with Buster, and then Paul's name come up. I never

595
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:52,720
Speaker 6: even knew Paul existed. So it was like, when rumors start,

596
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:57,240
Speaker 6: there's a source behind the rumors, and maybe the person

597
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 6: who started the rumor knows more than anybody else.

598
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 2: Well that's true. So as you're saying, as Ronnie Richter

599
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 2: is saying, if the rumor's not true, and there's a

600
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 2: very big chance it's not true, we can't confirm it.

601
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 2: You have to look at who started that rumor pointing

602
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 2: to a Murdod being involved Buster specifically, who has denied

603
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 2: any involvement, and figure out why that person is trying

604
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 2: to point at Buster Murdoch, because again, it's all just rumors.

605
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 2: Miss Smith, I have no facts.

606
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 6: All I have is people telling me and telling the

607
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 6: world they're putting up. And I don't see the reason

608
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 6: why you would ruin somebody's reputation. But my thing is

609
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 6: about the Murdoch's is you had eight years so far,

610
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:57,359
Speaker 6: but if somebody would have brought my son's name up

611
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 6: into a homicide, would be doing everything I could to

612
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:08,839
Speaker 6: clear his name. And they did nothing until Sled reopened

613
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 6: the case, and they still didn't say anything. And then

614
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 6: it was when Fled was making the announcement that it

615
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 6: was a homicide that Buster comes up with a stupid letter.

616
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 6: The letter was him saying that he didn't have nothing

617
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 6: to do with Stephen's death. You had eight years to

618
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 6: do that, and you wait until attentions on Stephen to

619
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 6: write that stupid letter. I don't even know if he

620
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 6: wrote it. I think Jim wrote it. And then you're

621
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,879
Speaker 6: going to get on TV. You know, it just makes

622
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 6: no sense. You had eight years.

623
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 5: To do that.

624
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 6: I would have been clearing my child's name. I keep

625
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 6: sweeping it under the rug, and I felt they were

626
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:57,320
Speaker 6: really heartless by doing that to take away from Stephen

627
00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:59,800
Speaker 6: to now all of a sudden, you want to clear

628
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 6: your name. Why didn't you do that at the beginning

629
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,280
Speaker 6: when your son's name come up the first time?

630
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 2: Well, Jennifer Wood, director of research at Fitzanes who's been

631
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 2: on the case from the very beginning, Jennifer, and may

632
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 2: have had to do with the last thing Alex Murdog

633
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 2: or Maggie wanted to do is speak out and bring

634
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 2: attention to themselves in any way, because all of Alex

635
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 2: Murdog's dirty laundry would then be forced into the public.

636
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 2: You want to just keep his head down and keep

637
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:28,240
Speaker 2: doing drugs.

638
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 11: That's a really good point.

639
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 3: I mean, that could be exactly why they didn't say anything.

640
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 2: Another issue, Jennifer Wood joining us from fitznews dot com

641
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 2: is the whole jury tampering claim is slowing down the

642
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 2: sled investigation into the death of Stephen Smith. Would you

643
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 2: agree with that?

644
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 3: I would hope SLEDD has enough agents to handle both

645
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 3: investigations simultaneously, but it does seem to be slowing things

646
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 3: down quite a bit.

647
00:38:54,880 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 2: Miss Smith. I can't help but believe that a jury

648
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 2: tampering investigation which is going to require an evidentiary here,

649
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 2: which means both sides have to get ready and go

650
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:10,240
Speaker 2: to court with witnesses. That's going to be a big deal.

651
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 2: I don't know if that will be open court or

652
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 2: in camera. We'll ask Ronnie Richter that in camera means

653
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 2: behind closed doors with the judge. But I know that

654
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 2: you feel very strongly that with the second autopsy you

655
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 2: are going to get justice. Is that correct?

656
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 6: I do believe that with Almahart. My attorney Eric talked

657
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 6: to cheap Keel and he reassured us that they are

658
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 6: still working this case. It's just been slow because of

659
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 6: the very tamper and stuff. And then so slig was

660
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 6: taken off a Steven to interview all those people, the jurors.

661
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 6: But Emma Hart, I know that they're doing what they

662
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 6: can to get this solved, and I know they have

663
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 6: a grand jury and pandled and then I'm just waiting

664
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 6: on that one little truth to pomp out so a

665
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:06,919
Speaker 6: rest can be made.

666
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 2: And what are your thoughts about the fact that there

667
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 2: are two people of interest right now?

668
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 6: I really don't know if they had anything to do

669
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 6: with it, but I know there's somebody out there that

670
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 6: knows something, and I know that they're probably parents now

671
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 6: and they wouldn't want this to go through. What I'm

672
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 6: going through, and I don't want them to go through

673
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 6: what I'm boring through. But now they need to put

674
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 6: their self in my shoes because you might be a mother,

675
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 6: you might be a father, and I pray that if

676
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 6: you know something that you're gonna say something to just

677
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 6: expose it. I'm gonna be mattered. Stephen matter, and it's

678
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,839
Speaker 6: like ripped our family apart, but we're still holding on

679
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 6: for justice. I would like to thank all of the

680
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:16,320
Speaker 6: people who have supported Stephen and it's still supporting statement's story.

681
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 2: Jennifer Wood, what can you tell me about two possible

682
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 2: persons of interest in the Steven Smith murder?

683
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 3: So we have heard that the investigation has focused on

684
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:32,839
Speaker 3: two possible persons of interest. Whether or not they've gone

685
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 3: in front of grand jury, we don't know because grand

686
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 3: jury proceedings are secret. But you know, I think this

687
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 3: case is going to come down to somebody saying something.

688
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 3: Somebody knows what happened that night. I think more than

689
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:46,760
Speaker 3: one somebody knows.

690
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 2: Ronnie Richter, I agree or disagree.

691
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 5: One hundred percent agree. Yeah, more than one person knows.

692
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 5: We've heard the same thing about two persons of interest.

693
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 5: The grand jury is a Star Chamber in South Carolina,

694
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:58,720
Speaker 5: so we would never know when it's going to happen.

695
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 5: But yeah, the hope is again that somebody breaks and

696
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 5: finally does the right thing and shares what they know.

697
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 2: Todd Shipley, digital cybercrime expert. If there are two Paise

698
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 2: persons of interest, can't we go back to that night

699
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 2: and trace their phones to find out where they were?

700
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:17,479
Speaker 8: Well, that ends up being a little more difficult because

701
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 8: we don't have those probably in evidence now, and people

702
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 8: tend to change their phones, you know, over time, so

703
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 8: we may not be able to have that kind of

704
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:30,320
Speaker 8: evidence on them specifically. But the existing phone is there,

705
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 8: and the contacts in that phone are there. There's a

706
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 8: lot of information that I haven't seen yet that I

707
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 8: don't understand why law enforcement isn't tracing it down, because

708
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 8: that's going to show The phone will show where he

709
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 8: was and who he had contact with. Because we all

710
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 8: live and die buy our phones now and so that

711
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,319
Speaker 8: information is going to be there if we look for it,

712
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:50,359
Speaker 8: and we haven't seen it yet.

713
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 2: John Michelle Duprey joining us again, who oversaw the new

714
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:59,959
Speaker 2: autopsy on Team Boys. Steven Smith, you know there's never

715
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 2: a dull moment. Let me say, in the Alex Murnage saga,

716
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 2: there's always a new twist and turn, and they are

717
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 2: going to be mashing their teeth and twitching their tails

718
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 2: to get a new trial for Alex Murdague. I bet

719
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 2: you anything. After I sat through his testimony in the

720
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,320
Speaker 2: first trial, I guarantee he will not take the stand

721
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 2: a second time. But doctor Dupriy, regarding Stephen Smith, you

722
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 2: say there's a nearly eight inch fracture to his head.

723
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 2: What do you believe it was caused by Nanjay?

724
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 11: I believe that it was caused by something on a

725
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 11: vehicle again, a ladder, a extended mirror, even maybe something

726
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 11: like a hook on a wrecker, something on a vehicle,

727
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 11: but not the vehicle.

728
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 2: Itself, because he wasn't harmed from the head down. It

729
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 2: was just if he was hit by a car, there

730
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 2: would be trauma all over his body. But it's just

731
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 2: the skull fracture. Well, isn't that by definition of hit

732
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 2: and run?

733
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,320
Speaker 11: It is, and so that is that is the proper

734
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 11: designation for the death certificate. It is just that it

735
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 11: is a.

736
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,320
Speaker 2: Typical in this case, a typical one.

737
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,320
Speaker 11: Because the vehicle is south did not hit him.

738
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 2: I don't know if I agree with that, Ronnie Richtor.

739
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 2: I mean, if a part of a vehicle hits somebody,

740
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 2: that's still us hit and run.

741
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 5: Well, it's also called leaving the scene of an accident

742
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 5: involving grave burning injury, which is a very serious felony

743
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 5: in South Carolina.

744
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 2: So it's also called vehicular homicide. Has everybody lost their mind?

745
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 2: But heculer homicide.

746
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 5: We're saying the same thing. It's a very serious felony

747
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:33,320
Speaker 5: in South Carolina, and whether there was intent to murder

748
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 5: Stephen or not is a different issue. It would be

749
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 5: impossible not to know that you struck him, not to

750
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:40,760
Speaker 5: know that you cause serious injury.

751
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 2: And Ronnie Rictor, don't tune up police that same tired song,

752
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 2: I didn't mean to, no intent. You run somebody over,

753
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 2: they're lying in the street, the road, dying in the

754
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,279
Speaker 2: middle of the night, and you take off. Oh HG

755
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 2: double L.

756
00:44:59,640 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 11: J.

757
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,359
Speaker 2: Going to get that person, no matter how much they

758
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 2: cry and carry on that they didn't mean to. They

759
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 2: have put his mother through hell for eight years and

760
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 2: that's exactly where they're going to go. So Jennifer Wood

761
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 2: direct to research fit neys. It's left really on Steven

762
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,879
Speaker 2: Smith's case. Do I need to light another fire under

763
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 2: somebody's tail.

764
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 3: I can keep lighting the fires, but you know, I

765
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 3: do think they are actively working this one.

766
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 2: Okay, Nancy please jump in, Karen start well.

767
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 12: But I think the most relevant thing here is what

768
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 12: his mom said, which is that Stephen matters.

769
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,280
Speaker 3: He mattered, and he matters.

770
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 12: That's really important. Nobody paid enough attention to this boy,

771
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 12: and that's it's just not acceptable, and it's excellent that

772
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:56,800
Speaker 12: they're doing it now because he matters, he does matter.

773
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 2: We wait as the evidence unfolds. Goodbye friend,