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Speaker 1: O Low.

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Speaker 2: Nice to meet you.

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Speaker 1: It's so great to meet you. Thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for having me on.

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Speaker 2: Of course, well thank you for being here. Have you

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Speaker 2: been how long have you been in New York since

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Speaker 2: you were first in New York? Because I know you

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Speaker 2: grew up in Hershey, Pennsylvania, and Wilmington, Delaware, which was

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Speaker 2: we'll get into, but have you been in New York

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Speaker 2: since you first came to New York.

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Speaker 1: I've been in New York since.

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Speaker 3: I've been in New York since the nineties, since nineteen

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Speaker 3: ninety eight, since college. So I grew up in those

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Speaker 3: places and then came right after high school, which needed

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Speaker 3: desperately to like find somewhere to go to be with

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Speaker 3: the creatives, and New York.

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Speaker 2: Was a place to go to feel accepted. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: feel like even do you feel like even places like

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Speaker 2: La or Miami still aren't as accepting as a place

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Speaker 2: like New York. Is it the most accepting place in

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Speaker 2: the world? Have you traveled the world?

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Speaker 3: You know, I have traveled a bunch, and I would

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Speaker 3: say that New York is probably not the most accepting

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Speaker 3: place in the world.

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Speaker 1: For probably not.

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Speaker 3: It's definitely extremely diverse and it's interesting even in places

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Speaker 3: where there's diversity, sometimes it doesn't have all the other

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Speaker 3: things you need. A lot of places that I've been

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Speaker 3: to in the South and in the Midwest seem to

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Speaker 3: be really accepting. And the biggest I guess signal of

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Speaker 3: acceptance for me, for the most part is as a

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Speaker 3: trans person, because right now that's a hot topic.

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Speaker 1: What are the types of experiences that people are having? Now?

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Speaker 1: People are having some bad experiences.

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Speaker 3: But when I was sort of a little younger but

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Speaker 3: able to travel, I realized I was having some good

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Speaker 3: experiences in these places, and I.

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Speaker 1: Was really puzzled.

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Speaker 3: But then I looked a little bit deeper. It's not

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Speaker 3: just that those places are just accepting. It's that there's

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Speaker 3: less visibility of queer people, people who are out.

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Speaker 1: Whereas people in New York.

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Speaker 3: Not everyone, of course, there's all kinds of people in

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Speaker 3: New York and la and all the other places, but

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Speaker 3: a lot of people in New York are generally more,

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Speaker 3: at least in like the mainstream areas.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes more educated.

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Speaker 3: They may have more exposure to different groups and things

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Speaker 3: like that. And so you know, I remember watching a

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Speaker 3: really early episode of the Real World back in the

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Speaker 3: day Miami can't remember his name, one of the guys

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Speaker 3: on there, but he was from New York and this

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Speaker 3: was in nineteen ninety three or four Ural World Miami,

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Speaker 3: and I remember just having learned about the rainbow flag.

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Speaker 3: Now I know that is like everybody knows about that now,

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Speaker 3: but there was a moment in time where people would

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Speaker 3: use the rainbow flag.

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Speaker 1: As sort of code.

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Speaker 3: They would have a little sticker or a little piece

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Speaker 3: of jewelry, and to most people it was just a rainbow.

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Speaker 3: It didn't mean it had nothing to do with the

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Speaker 3: queer community. But to people in the community, it was

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Speaker 3: the signal that this place is LGBTQ friendly. And I

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Speaker 3: remember watching an episode and all the other housemates and

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Speaker 3: cast members were like, what's this rainbow on the door

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Speaker 3: of this place? And the guy from New York was like, Oh,

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Speaker 3: that means that they're gay friendly or LGBT friendly. And

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Speaker 3: he wasn't a part of the community, but he was

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Speaker 3: a business owner and kind of and was a New

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Speaker 3: Yorker and he just knew, so like, that's kind of

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Speaker 3: what I mean.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well, that's definitely interesting. And also New York is

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Speaker 2: like a big cafeteria, where like the Upper East Side

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Speaker 2: is certainly not the same as going into the west Village,

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Speaker 2: you know, Harlem or Chelsea or Five Eye, so you know,

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Speaker 2: it could be a mean girl's cafeteria too, exactly.

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Speaker 1: So you know it's it is so wild.

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Speaker 3: You go into you go over a few streets, and

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Speaker 3: you're in a completely different area, different vibe, you know.

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Speaker 2: An acceptance level. If you're walking around Westley Village, you're

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Speaker 2: gonna have a different experience. And if you're walking on eighty,

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Speaker 2: you know Carnegie, you know totally that's interesting. So what

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Speaker 2: how big is your family?

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Speaker 1: Uh, they're kind of small. You know.

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Speaker 3: My mom has four had four siblings. A couple of

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Speaker 3: people have passed, Uh, but my mom grew up with

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Speaker 3: four siblings and they all had most of them had kids,

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Speaker 3: a couple of them didn't, and but like one or two.

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Speaker 3: So like you know, each generation is like five people.

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Speaker 2: And are you close with your are your parents alive?

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Speaker 2: Are you close with them?

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Speaker 3: I'm close with my mom. Yeah, both my parents are alive.

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Speaker 3: But I am close with my mom. Yeah, she's we're

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Speaker 3: kind of close in age. And so people you say,

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Speaker 3: when I was younger, people would just assume that we

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Speaker 3: were when we were both when we were both younger,

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Speaker 3: people would assume that we were siblings and not, you know,

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Speaker 3: she wasn't my mother.

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Speaker 2: And you talk about not you know, sort of stifling,

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Speaker 2: not non conforming in high school. So how did that work?

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Speaker 2: And when you know, what was your childhood like? Who

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Speaker 2: somebody is is obviously their entire identity, but having to

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Speaker 2: explain it and talk about it and also being an

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Speaker 2: activist about it is not everybody. It's probably like a

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Speaker 2: gift and a burden because you constantly have to explain

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Speaker 2: yourself and explain your story it is.

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Speaker 1: It's both.

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Speaker 3: It's both a gift and a burden, and something I'm

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Speaker 3: dedicated to because I think it's really important because I

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Speaker 3: want people to learn.

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Speaker 1: I want to be able to connect with people.

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Speaker 3: I want my other you know, siblings in the queer

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Speaker 3: community to have a good experience, especially people who are

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Speaker 3: younger who may come after me. And it also does

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Speaker 3: feel like a bit of a job sometimes, and.

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Speaker 2: So just being you is sometimes a job. Just being

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Speaker 2: who you actually are like is just a job sometimes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it can feel like that, especially if being me

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Speaker 3: allows me to connect with the things.

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Speaker 1: That I'm the most passionate about.

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Speaker 3: Of course, there It's not like someone's forcing me to

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Speaker 3: talk about trans rights or go to march and a thing.

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Speaker 3: But I think that those things are really important, and

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Speaker 3: you know, you're right. It's it's really interesting. Like right now,

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Speaker 3: in the current political climate, it's a shame. I think

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Speaker 3: the queer community and definitely people in the trans community

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Speaker 3: are getting a bit of a bad rap from some people,

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Speaker 3: and that means that we have to go out and

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Speaker 3: like do all this extra labor to clean up after

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Speaker 3: this sort of reputation that people are that some people,

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Speaker 3: especially some elected officials, trying to spread these some of

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Speaker 3: these elected officials, some of these politicians, some of these

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Speaker 3: like you two and talking heads that for whatever reason

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Speaker 3: find it very advantageous or even lucrative.

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Speaker 2: But your childhood, so what was that like as it

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Speaker 2: pertains to who you are and not conforming?

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Speaker 3: It was actually pretty good, I would say, like by

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Speaker 3: today's standards, it was probably middle of the road. Of course,

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Speaker 3: I had some really tough experiences. I had, you know,

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Speaker 3: bullies in school. I've experienced discrimination and different things like that,

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Speaker 3: and I learned from those things and I think that

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Speaker 3: they were although they're not what I would wish for

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Speaker 3: anybody to have to go through, and certainly not necessarily

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Speaker 3: what I would want to go through or choose to

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Speaker 3: go through. It sometimes comes with the territory. So I

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Speaker 3: found the lesson in a lot of those things. But

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Speaker 3: I think by today's standards, my experience in general's middle

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Speaker 3: of the road. My family was you know, you know,

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Speaker 3: growing up in a black family in the nineties, there

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Speaker 3: was a good chance that, well, my family was all

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Speaker 3: like democrat like in terms of their political you know, associations,

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Speaker 3: and so they were very I guess the best word

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Speaker 3: would be like tolerant of everything across the board. Now

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Speaker 3: that's we learned that tolerant is not the ideal because

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Speaker 3: it doesn't necessarily make room for like a lot of

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Speaker 3: understanding or really like have you know, a lot of

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Speaker 3: caring and understanding. But it means that they weren't like

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Speaker 3: constantly demonizing me. I have other friends who grew up

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Speaker 3: in a really you know, extremely religious household or an

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Speaker 3: extremely conservative household, and some of the things that their

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Speaker 3: parents would say, for instance, would be would not really

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Speaker 3: set the stage or be encouraging for them to share

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Speaker 3: with their parents who they really are or how they

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Speaker 3: really feel. And so I didn't have that experience, but

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Speaker 3: it wasn't extreme progressive. I mean, I also know friends

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Speaker 3: who whose parents said to them at a very young age,

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Speaker 3: you can be anyone you want, and no matter who

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Speaker 3: you love, it's fine. That wasn't my experience either. But

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Speaker 3: my family understood from a really young age that I

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Speaker 3: was very eccentric and sort of swishy and very flamboyant

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Speaker 3: and femme, and I was able to find refuge very

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Speaker 3: early on in the arts, in singing and choir and

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Speaker 3: drama and acting and dance, and so my family.

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Speaker 1: Was super supportive of the arts.

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Speaker 3: So as long as I was in the arts, then

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Speaker 3: anything I did was fine, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: And they'd be like, oh, they're just creative. That was

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Speaker 3: like their excuse for me.

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Speaker 2: The arts like kind of saved you in a way.

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Speaker 2: If you didn't have that that you probably would have

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Speaker 2: felt like you were on an island girl.

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Speaker 1: It's the truth.

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Speaker 3: I mean, if there was if there was no if

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Speaker 3: the arts wasn't present, which I mean, that would be

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Speaker 3: a completely different world. But like the arts in schools specifically,

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Speaker 3: because that's usually where I faced most of my social

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Speaker 3: experiences as a kid, That's what you do. You socialize

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Speaker 3: in school, So if you're going to meet a bully,

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Speaker 3: it's either going to be in the neighborhood or another

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Speaker 3: school or classmate or something. And so a lot of

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Speaker 3: my experience is the negative experiences that I had around

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Speaker 3: being teased for who I am and being queer were

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Speaker 3: in school.

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Speaker 1: And so in school, my.

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Speaker 3: Refuge was definitely the arts art class, drama class, music

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Speaker 3: class where I was a I was in well, I

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Speaker 3: was around other people who were also creative, uh and

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Speaker 3: maybe also would eventually be queer or part of the

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Speaker 3: trans community or whatever. But then also I was in

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Speaker 3: a sort of safety and numbers space where sports wasn't

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Speaker 3: the dominating activity where bullies would have felt out of

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Speaker 3: place for the most part going into that sort of environment.

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Speaker 2: And so you're good at something. So being good at

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Speaker 2: something in that space means you're thriving.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And here's a shout out to anybody who has

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Speaker 3: the power to vote for or support music education in schools.

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Speaker 1: It's really important.

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Speaker 3: I for until fifth grade, all from like all the

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Speaker 3: way through my schooling until sixth grade, actually was able to.

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Speaker 1: Enjoy playing the cello.

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Speaker 3: And then suddenly I moved to a school where they

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Speaker 3: didn't have music in school and that was gone forever,

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Speaker 3: and so yeah, you know, yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I'm friends with Ryan Murphy, and I have to

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Speaker 2: shout out that show Glee, because it really did address

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Speaker 2: everything and normalize and promote and celebrate and I think

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Speaker 2: that was an important show for you know. I watched

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Speaker 2: it with my daughter, and I loved watching it later,

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Speaker 2: like during the pandemic, not when I was first airing.

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Speaker 2: Seeing every week them addressed something different, alcoholism, pregnancy, gay

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Speaker 2: a beauty. Yeah, like it really addressed in music was

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Speaker 2: being popular for being in the you know, in the chorus,

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Speaker 2: which in my growing up course for me, I was

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Speaker 2: always in the chorus and I was in the plays.

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Speaker 2: But like it wasn't cool. It wasn't cool to be

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Speaker 2: you know at all. But I loved it. I loved

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Speaker 2: being in the chorus. Interesting, how old were you when

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Speaker 2: you came out?

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Speaker 3: I came out, like on a large scale, I came

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Speaker 3: out twice at least. First I came out as liking boys,

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Speaker 3: and then I came out as trans and sort of

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Speaker 3: that's just like the process that I, you know, followed.

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Speaker 3: There are people who even don't and that's common for

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Speaker 3: a lot of trans people. It's to like sort of

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Speaker 3: step into your queerness first and then fine tune it,

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Speaker 3: you know, because especially people my age are people who

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Speaker 3: grew up in the nineties, there wasn't a lot of

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Speaker 3: articulation about being by or pan sexual or trans or

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Speaker 3: nuance the nuance.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, chocolate or vanilla.

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Speaker 1: There's not like exactly it was like gay or straight?

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Speaker 1: What are you?

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Speaker 3: And so there was I'm not gay, I don't identify

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Speaker 3: as gay, but that was like the closest thing I had,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean? Also like when I got

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Speaker 3: check a box, Yeah, like by the same token. Like today,

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Speaker 3: as a black trans woman, people that I idolize are you

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Speaker 3: know a lot of people like Laverne Cox, who's very

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Speaker 3: well known and she's obviously black in trans. So that's

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Speaker 3: who I would point to today. But when I was

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Speaker 3: growing up, there wasn't someone like Laverne Cox's visible in

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Speaker 3: public on TV and in the public eye. So the

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Speaker 3: closest thing I had at a certain at one moment

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Speaker 3: in time was like Richard Simmons, who is not really

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: You can't pick you know, is he because ad never

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Speaker 2: discussed it? Is he gay? Is he straight, He's out exactly.

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Speaker 1: But he was obviously very flamboyant.

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Speaker 3: He had all the characteristics that I would get teased

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Speaker 3: for so and he was owning his power. He was

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Speaker 3: he was definitely a person in control of his realm

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Speaker 3: Ladies were like screaming and hollering like he was Michael Jackson,

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Speaker 3: you know, like he had power, you know, And and

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Speaker 3: I didn't.

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Speaker 2: Really an identity or like honesty. He probably was fighting

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Speaker 2: a ton too, but he got to be express himself exactly.

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Speaker 3: So that was the closest type of thing we had.

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Speaker 3: So by that token, I couldn't really articulate I'm a

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Speaker 3: trans woman back in the day interesting and so that.

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Speaker 3: So then later on when I learned more about it

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Speaker 3: and realized and I found the art of drag, and

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Speaker 3: I realized, oh there are there's more. This is more

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Speaker 3: fine tune, and this feels more correct, and I was

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Speaker 3: able to come out as trans.

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Speaker 1: And then, but even for gay people.

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Speaker 3: Depending on the company you keep, sometimes you have to

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Speaker 3: come out more than once to your friend group, to

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Speaker 3: the people at work, to your family, and sometimes those

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Speaker 3: are different phases in your life, you know, Like I realized, oh,

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Speaker 3: you know that myself and another trans woman, Yes, we

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Speaker 3: may face a lot of things. Or myself and another

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Speaker 3: CIS woman like yourself, I'm we might face a lot

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Speaker 3: of this, a lot of things that are similar in

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Speaker 3: terms of discrimination, in terms of the barriers that.

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Speaker 1: We face, or different things.

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Speaker 2: What's a woman as this.

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Speaker 3: Woman is a woman who's not trans, and you know

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Speaker 3: that's that's it really is for the distinction.

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Speaker 2: Of of you know, you're a woman, I'm a woman,

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Speaker 2: but we're different women.

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Speaker 1: We're different types of women.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I'm a trans woman and a woman who who

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Speaker 3: I aligns with her gender at birth and never felt

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Speaker 3: like anything was wrong or that she needed to change

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Speaker 3: anything in terms of her gender. Uh, would would be

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Speaker 3: in the category of CIS gender, and that is uh.

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Speaker 3: There has been some controversy around that term. I think

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Speaker 3: a lot of people who either don't understand it or

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Speaker 3: want to further marginalize the trans community, you know, find

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Speaker 3: issue with that word.

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Speaker 1: Uh. It's not a slur.

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Speaker 3: It is a word that's meant to clarify because we

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Speaker 3: both have the experience of womanhood and even even there's uh, well,

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Speaker 3: I will say this, we both have the experience of

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Speaker 3: what it's like to be to grow up in a

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Speaker 3: in a world, in a country that is dominant, dominated

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Speaker 3: by men and the patriarchy, and we have the experience

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Speaker 3: of being treated a certain way because of our proximity

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Speaker 3: to femininity.

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Speaker 1: You know, for you, that.

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Speaker 3: Is probably natural you are a cists woman. Obviously for me,

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Speaker 3: it is natural for me to be fem and flamboyant.

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Speaker 3: That's how I've always been. But uh, to come into

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Speaker 3: my womanhood, I had to sort of take certain steps,

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Speaker 3: and so that's really that distinction. But here we are

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Speaker 3: and we both face a lot of the same things.

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Speaker 3: But of course my blackness other parts of my identity. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: my transness means that my route to that meant I

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Speaker 3: had to take a different intersection, and at that intersection,

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Speaker 3: I experience different things. At certain intersections there's red lights,

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Speaker 3: and certain intersections there's green lights, and sometimes there's no

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Speaker 3: stoplight at all, or sometimes there's a stop sign and

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Speaker 3: a stoplight and a crossing guard and a railroad train

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Speaker 3: track and yellow light.

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Speaker 2: You know, Well, I think words are really important, and

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Speaker 2: I think and opposed me too, and black Lives Matter

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Speaker 2: world and the pandemic gave people a lot of time

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Speaker 2: to sit home and like think and discuss, and there

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Speaker 2: were a lot of there's a lot bubbling up. I

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Speaker 2: think words you know, became a big thing because not

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Speaker 2: everybody knew the right terms and people are scared to speak.

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Speaker 3: The way that they're used really to takes how they're perceived.

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Speaker 3: And so there was a moment in time, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: there was a moment in time where the F word

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00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:13,800
Speaker 3: where honestly anything that became a mainstream word that everyone

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Speaker 3: whether they were gay, straight, whoever they.

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00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,240
Speaker 1: Were, knew that word. At some point.

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Speaker 3: However, the dominating part of society feels about that community,

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Speaker 3: they're going to use that what mainstream word as a

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Speaker 3: weapon against that smaller group. So if you're a marginalized

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Speaker 3: community and no one knows about you, then you can

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Speaker 3: use different words. It's going to have less of an impact.

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Speaker 3: But the minute people who like to discriminate understand how

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Speaker 3: that word is used and how it associates you, they're

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Speaker 3: going to use it to demonize you and say and

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Speaker 3: so for a lot of people, you know, when there

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Speaker 3: was a thing and there certainly still is a thing

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Speaker 3: in terms of discrimination called gay bashing, where people who

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Speaker 3: were queer we're getting beaten up. Yes, being identified on

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Speaker 3: the street, and a lot of times the words that

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Speaker 3: the maybe there were people who would just go up

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Speaker 3: and beat somebody up and not say anything.

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Speaker 1: But all so, those are the words that are associated.

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Speaker 3: With hate when they're getting beaten up, when they're getting

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Speaker 3: discriminated against. And then the other part of it is

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Speaker 3: there is a nuance with language. Like we said, back

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Speaker 3: in the day, me and a bisexual woman and a

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Speaker 3: gay man would have all been just called gay. Well,

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00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,520
Speaker 3: I think when we're when we're talking about visibility and

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Speaker 3: acceptance and people who we didn't know so much about visibility,

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00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,280
Speaker 3: acceptance and education are things that are kind of constantly

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Speaker 3: swirling around and with a certain group, a marginalized community,

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Speaker 3: people who are discriminated against when we start to include

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Speaker 3: them into you know, like, at one point in time,

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Speaker 3: it was perfectly legal to fire someone if there if

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Speaker 3: they were even suspected of being gay gay, right and

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Speaker 3: so that was as recent as the nineties and so,

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Speaker 3: and even in the two thousands, right and so. And

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Speaker 3: I'm sure that there's that still could be happening to

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Speaker 3: this day. Obviously, I think people think of that as

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Speaker 3: illegal now, and we're trying to get those same protections

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00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:19,560
Speaker 3: for people in the trans community. And but anyway, when

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Speaker 3: this people in these in these groups who've been discriminated

374
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:27,320
Speaker 3: against in certain ways end up becoming more visible people

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Speaker 3: who are friendly and accepting to those parts of the community.

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Speaker 3: Oftentimes they adopt these words, but they have a little

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Speaker 3: less information, but they're trying to be open minded. They're

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Speaker 3: trying to make sure that they make everyone feel safe

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Speaker 3: and included. But then, of course when the bigots come

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Speaker 3: around and learn that word and use.

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Speaker 2: It to write and weaponize it, so we got to

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Speaker 2: change the word. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it.

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Speaker 2: I get I get it. Are you in a relationship?

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Speaker 1: No? I love?

385
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Speaker 2: Do you date?

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Speaker 1: No? I'm not dating right now.

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Speaker 3: Uh, there's someone who I'm in love with and we

388
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Speaker 3: uh we're we're not together at the moment, but I

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Speaker 3: hope we get back together again.

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Speaker 2: And is this person in the entertainment industry or are

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00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,320
Speaker 2: they like a civilian like a business But like, what

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Speaker 2: type of I'm not outing this person or whoever you're dating,

393
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,879
Speaker 2: but I just meant, like, what's that, what's your type?

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Speaker 3: He is not a he's a civilian, he's not in entertainment,

395
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Speaker 3: And I don't I would be perfectly fine dating somebody

396
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,919
Speaker 3: in entertainment, but I do think that it's probably not

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Speaker 3: what I want. He just came back into my life

398
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 3: and expressed some stuff to me, and so there's a

399
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 3: deeper conversation. We'll have to do a part too, because okay,

400
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 3: I don't fully know, but he's he's a really accepting guy.

401
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 3: He doesn't seem there are some men who deal with

402
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 3: sort of a sense of shame because of not because

403
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 3: they're it's just because they're inherently just ashamed of who

404
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:03,640
Speaker 3: they are, or that they're dating.

405
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 1: Trans women, for instance.

406
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,679
Speaker 3: But it's I think it primarily has to do with

407
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,719
Speaker 3: what other people think about them when they find out.

408
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:12,680
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, there's a whole layer. That's why I'm

409
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 2: fascinated because I spoke to someone else about this, and

410
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 2: it's interesting because this person was dating someone who had

411
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:27,720
Speaker 2: just was from New England and traditional, very traditional, very

412
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,240
Speaker 2: you know. It's it's people are attracted to the opposite

413
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,159
Speaker 2: a lot a lot of times, the opposite of like

414
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 2: their constricting lives. So are you attracted to conservative men

415
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 2: like you? Like?

416
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 1: What? That's really interesting?

417
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 3: I I certainly have dated this person is somewhat conservative,

418
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 3: like socially liberal, but maybe politically.

419
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,200
Speaker 1: And financially you know, like fiscally you know, the whole thing.

420
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 3: I do think, and it is interesting there does seem

421
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 3: to be a pattern, Like you said, we're sort of

422
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 3: opposites tracting in terms of that, Well, there's what's the word.

423
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 2: They're not repressed stifled like because.

424
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Speaker 3: You know, yeah, yeah, I think some people who are

425
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 3: repressed are attracted to those who are who are more free. Perhaps,

426
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 3: of course, I think that speaks to like what we

427
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,440
Speaker 3: really want is I think in the in the at

428
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 3: the end of the day, a lot of people who

429
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 3: are repressed or who've been sort of who need freedom,

430
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 3: want freedom, So they're attracted to freedom and liberation.

431
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 1: Uh. And for people like me who are.

432
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 3: Maybe experiencing that right now, what I'm looking for is

433
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 3: a sense of like sort of groundedness and not that

434
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 3: you can't be grounded and liberated or free, but you know,

435
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,439
Speaker 3: people in terms of relationships, I think a lot of

436
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 3: a lot of times people who are more conservative and

437
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 3: more sort of straight laced have a closer connection to

438
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 3: this is going to be a hot take a relationship

439
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:07,640
Speaker 3: with business and capitalism and sort of the status quo

440
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 3: and a mainstream sort of persona and identity that's more accepted.

441
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 3: And for some people who've already found personally their identity,

442
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,679
Speaker 3: their truth, they have what they need, you know, personally,

443
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 3: then being connected to that sort of stability can be

444
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 3: attractive as well.

445
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: Well.

446
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 2: Right, you've dealt with a certain amount of turmoil, you

447
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 2: may not be attracted to somebody who's dealing with a

448
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 2: certain turmoil. Both houses can't be on fire at the

449
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,879
Speaker 2: same time. Like, so it's nice to be, you know,

450
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 2: like a rock to someone who's like grounded in their

451
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,640
Speaker 2: identity is attractive because sometimes you've had to battle with that.

452
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,479
Speaker 2: So that makes that makes sense, you know save So

453
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 2: what do you think about how brands? Do you think

454
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 2: brands have botched this up like bud Light and Target

455
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 2: and then it becomes this whole big thing, and then

456
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 2: you have people saying negative things and was it were

457
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 2: they was it the execution of these brands trying to

458
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 2: do the right thing? And were they authentically doing the

459
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 2: right thing or were they trying to check the box

460
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 2: because of you know who who's watching and that they

461
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 2: think that they're getting attention for doing the right thing.

462
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, is it grounded integrity or

463
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 2: is it because we're checking boxes and then they're watching

464
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 2: it because not authentic.

465
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:32,360
Speaker 3: I think, just speaking generally, I do think that it's

466
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 3: important for brands and and and large businesses to demonstrate

467
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 3: and be accepting of of all different types of people.

468
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 3: I think that uh, you know, we we as people

469
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,199
Speaker 3: in the queer community are here, We have been that

470
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 3: it's not new, even though people are just finding out

471
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,680
Speaker 3: about it on their TikTok or something, We've been around,

472
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. And even though we didn't

473
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 3: always have the words and we weren't always included, like,

474
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 3: for instance, it was illegal for people to be gay

475
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 3: in public or at their job in the past, in

476
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 3: the sixties, in the seventies, it was punishable by jail

477
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 3: at certain times, it was punishable by being fired, and

478
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 3: it was legal to discriminate at certain times. And so

479
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 3: that doesn't say, hey, we want everybody to come out

480
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 3: and tell us about it. Meant that people had to

481
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 3: be more closeted and more secretive and you know, not

482
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 3: share who they are.

483
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: But it doesn't mean that they weren't there.

484
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:26,880
Speaker 3: It just meant that they weren't talking about it right

485
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 3: Now that we have more acceptance and people are feeling

486
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 3: free to be who they are, what people want is

487
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 3: to be included in not only at their places at work,

488
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 3: but also in marketing and represented because representation matters. And

489
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 3: so in order to do that, companies need to be

490
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 3: inclusive in their advertising, in their casting on their TV

491
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:45,160
Speaker 3: shows and things like that.

492
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 1: And they understand that now.

493
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 3: That there was a moment in time and I think

494
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 3: that they didn't understand that, but now I do think

495
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 3: they understand that.

496
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: And up until twenty.

497
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 3: Up until a five or six years ago, I think

498
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 3: it was easy for companies to sort of sign I

499
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 3: low their inclusion. They'd be I know that they would

500
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 3: place an ad on Super Bowl that was all about

501
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 3: Macho Macho for the people who watched Super Bowl and

502
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 3: for the people who are watching Housewives. If the gays

503
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 3: watching Housewives, they'll do a Housewives version as well. And

504
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 3: so like you didn't necessarily they didn't have They weren't

505
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 3: getting caught sort of playing all sides of the field

506
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 3: or all sides of the fence.

507
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 2: It felt but it felt token, like a token exousment.

508
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 1: But it was token. It was token. I believe it

509
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: was token, right.

510
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 2: But if brands are going to come and and put

511
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 2: that foot forward and market towards the trans community, you

512
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 2: know they better do it right because you want that

513
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 2: to be mainstream. And so do you think that these

514
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 2: brands do you think it was this it was just

515
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 2: society not accepting it, or they botched the jaws, That's

516
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 2: what I'm saying, all of it, all of.

517
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: It, all of it.

518
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 3: Their their decision to be inclusive and feature trans people.

519
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 1: What's the right decision to do? The entire they did

520
00:27:59,440 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 1: it with.

521
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 3: The tension was right, the execution wasn't necessarily correct, and

522
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 3: the after effect in terms of how they behaved and

523
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 3: how they reacted some.

524
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:07,679
Speaker 1: Of them.

525
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 2: On the side of.

526
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 3: It is going to be public backlash when you're dealing

527
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 3: with a group of people who are currently discriminated against,

528
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 3: when they're when you're dealing with the part of the

529
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 3: community who have more than five hundred anti trans laws

530
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 3: and policies being passed in many states in like in

531
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 3: eighteen states in our country. Of course, that means there's

532
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 3: going to be people who react in a certain way

533
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 3: and are like, I don't like to see that person here.

534
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: And we saw that certainly but.

535
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 2: It was billions for bad luck, like it was billions

536
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 2: of time.

537
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 3: But we also saw that backlash with Disney, We saw

538
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 3: that backlash with other people, and Disney obviously stood by

539
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 3: It was a little bit late, but they did stand

540
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 3: by the queer in the trans community in a way

541
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 3: that but like didn't target necessarily didn't. And some of

542
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 3: these brands they sort of they they they made a

543
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 3: bold statement, but then took it back away and said, actually, no,

544
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 3: we're not making a bold statement. And that is where

545
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 3: than making the bold statement.

546
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 2: Well, so that meant that they were trying to check

547
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 2: a box. But it was bullshit, is what you're saying,

548
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 2: Like that's what I'm saying, Like they would No.

549
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 3: It's not, it's bullshit. They were trying to check the box,

550
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 3: and they should have checked the box. And they understand

551
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 3: that that box is real. But what they realize is

552
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 3: there's not just one box. There's a there for every box.

553
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 3: There's an opposite box that also is important to them.

554
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 3: And so it's like trying.

555
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 2: To they were playing.

556
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: They had to play, Yeah.

557
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 3: We want, we want, we want vegetarians and we want

558
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 3: meat eaters, so we have to do a vegetarian ad

559
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 3: and we do a meat eater ad, and the meat

560
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 3: eater see the vegetarian ad, they're going to be angry.

561
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 3: And if the vegetarians see the meat eaters ad, they're

562
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 3: going to be angry. Before they were able to just

563
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 3: again silo their their ads and market to a certain group.

564
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 3: But now you can't because now just if there's a

565
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 3: person who's in this marginalized group, if the vegetarian has

566
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 3: ten million followers, everyone's going to find out.

567
00:29:58,680 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: You know what I mean.

568
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a very different it's a very different world. Interesting. Okay,

569
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 2: So let's get to Traders, which you loved and were

570
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 2: excited to do. And it was like someone they say,

571
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 2: don't meet your idols or whatever they say, like right,

572
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 2: because they might disappoint. So it was it sounds from

573
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 2: what I read that it was a disappointing experience.

574
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 3: My experience was disappointing. I have to say first, I

575
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 3: still love the show. I am a huge fan of

576
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 3: the show. I really support the show. I think it's

577
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 3: a great a different type of kind of reality competition

578
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 3: show that I think is interesting. I'm a horror fan,

579
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 3: I'm I'm a mystery fan, and so I do love that,

580
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 3: but my experience, and while I do think that they

581
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 3: did a good job casting, I think that there was

582
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 3: a few missed opportunities in their casting and also in

583
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 3: the way that the show played out and the way

584
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 3: that the show was sort of run.

585
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: So that impacted my experience, right, yea, So it's more.

586
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 2: The production versus the cast people.

587
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 3: Now, I think the people that were cast, my experience was.

588
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: It was just the entire thing.

589
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 3: I encountered, someone who I had an experience that was

590
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 3: sort of affected by sort of a mob mentality and

591
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 3: the fact that I was a loaner on the show.

592
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 3: And had I not been a loaner on the show,

593
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 3: then maybe my experience would have been different. For instance,

594
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 3: in season one of the American version of Traders, aside

595
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 3: from the fact that there was half reality stars and half

596
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 3: civilians who had never done reality, there were I think

597
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 3: eighteen people in that cast, and there were two out

598
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 3: queer people of color. My season season two there were

599
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 3: twenty one of us and more people and less out

600
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 3: queer people. I was the only out queer person on

601
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 3: the show. Obviously, Alan Cumming is the host, He's not

602
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 3: a contestant, and so I didn't really have a lot

603
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 3: of people that I could identify with, and that was

604
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 3: this I would I realized that very quickly when people

605
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 3: were like, oh my, like when all the Housewives, it's

606
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 3: worthy thing. All the house on the four Housewives were

607
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 3: grouping up and they were talking about the housewives stuff.

608
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 3: Everybody else you know, there's the gamers, people were saying.

609
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 3: In this season, there was a lot of people who

610
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 3: were in like you know, the Challenge and shows like that,

611
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 3: were gathering and then it was just me in the middle.

612
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 2: You really felt like an outsider just for.

613
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 3: That because I was on Drag Race. There was no

614
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 3: other people from my show, even if they even if

615
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 3: drag Race wasn't about doing drag like, there was nobody

616
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 3: else on the show that.

617
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: I shared the experience. So I was the only one.

618
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,959
Speaker 3: And people didn't really watch drag Race, and so they

619
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 3: just kind of had their I think, first impressions and

620
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 3: that's all they could go by, and they didn't really

621
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 3: take the time to really get to know me, and

622
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 3: so that that was all on the contestants.

623
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 2: And the cast, and that ever did your skill in

624
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 2: the game of the game.

625
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 1: It effected my gameplay.

626
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 3: If someone had made the decision the cast didn't cast themselves,

627
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 3: So if someone had made the decision to put more

628
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 3: than one of me on there, then that would have

629
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 3: been allowed me to have more people to align with.

630
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 3: And so that's why I'm saying production obviously had a

631
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 3: hand and who got on the show. It's not like

632
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 3: the casts made their own choice of casting themselves. And

633
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 3: so that's where production I think could benefit when I

634
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 3: say missed opportunity. It's beneficial to the rest of the

635
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 3: world to see different types of people. It's beneficial to

636
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 3: the viewing audience to understand that there are queer people,

637
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 3: that there are trans people, and it's beneficial for people

638
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 3: who the viewers to understand that there's more than one

639
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 3: black person, there's more than one trans person that exists

640
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 3: in this world. And we don't always have to go

641
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 3: with the formula of twenty two white people and one

642
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 3: black person, twenty two straight people and one queer person,

643
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 3: Like why does that have to be twenty two white

644
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 3: people and one Asian person or one Latin person only?

645
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 3: Like can we have how different would the show look

646
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 3: if it was twenty two black people and one white person.

647
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 3: Everybody knows that that would be a different experience, So

648
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 3: why can't it be half and half? Or why why

649
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 3: can't we mix it up a little? Can there be two?

650
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 2: You know right right? You felt like it?

651
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 1: What?

652
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, you felt like an outsider and you were at

653
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 2: a disadvantage.

654
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was an outsider.

655
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 3: And the show relies on, as many shows do, first impressions,

656
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 3: And so first impressions have a lot to do with

657
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:41,879
Speaker 3: what you already think. If you don't know someone who

658
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 3: comes in and they're from another country or of a

659
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 3: different race, and you don't really have a lot of

660
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 3: experience with these types of people, or someone who's queer,

661
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,720
Speaker 3: or someone who's this or that, and you don't understand,

662
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,839
Speaker 3: you don't really connect with that, or you don't know

663
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 3: much about that person and that individual you haven't had

664
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 3: a chance to get to know them as a person,

665
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 3: have a lot of conversation with them. You're going to

666
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 3: have to go go buy whatever you know about that

667
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,439
Speaker 3: group when you were growing up, You know what I mean?

668
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 3: If I had a really terrible experience with a farmer

669
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 3: when I was growing up, and and and it was

670
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 3: a horrible experience, then the next time I meet a farmer,

671
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 3: I'm going to think of that horrible experience, and I'm

672
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 3: going to treat them the way that I would treat

673
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 3: them given that experience. Now, if I get to meet

674
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 3: a new farmer who's completely different and I have a

675
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 3: wonderful experience, then it can start to change. But if

676
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 3: I vote that farmer out immediately because I'm like, oh,

677
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 3: I know farmers, I don't want to I don't even

678
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 3: even know this person's name by then what are we learning?

679
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 1: Right?

680
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 2: Right, right, all right, right that? But you're assuming that

681
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 2: the show wants to you know, here's what's interesting. This

682
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 2: is where the line is. You're assuming that the show

683
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 2: wants to take on that responsibility. And it's funny because

684
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 2: they don't. Right well, because and that's what you're trying

685
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 2: to change or just that's what you're trying to discuss.

686
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 2: The line and the question is whether or not a

687
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 2: reality show should reflect just reality like and then who's deciding. So,

688
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 2: let's say to take off Republicans, which is a big,

689
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 2: big criticism by the way of Housewives that people and

690
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 2: the powers that be will fire people because of their

691
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 2: political views. I've heard that too many times that I'm

692
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 2: sure it is true, and I've actually heard it from

693
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 2: producers like, oh, this person you know, voted for Trump,

694
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 2: and so they and they don't like their views, so

695
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 2: they want to fire them from the show. It's a

696
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:31,720
Speaker 2: real thing. It's a real thing on several Housewives shows.

697
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 2: Should a reality show reflect reality or should a reality

698
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 2: show reflect what should be?

699
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 3: To answer that question, the answer to that question probably

700
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 3: relies on is your what is the impact that you

701
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 3: want your show to make? Who do you want to

702
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 3: watch a show? I agree, want to accept the show,

703
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 3: and what message do you want to send? Statistically, statistically,

704
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 3: for my situation, there's more queer people and black people,

705
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 3: definitely more queer people in terms of statistically and percentage

706
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 3: wise in this country than than the odds of one

707
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 3: out of twenty one. They're you know generally, oh yes, good,

708
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 3: good point, and so that's less. That's not reality. If

709
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 3: we're going by like a cross section of who's out

710
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 3: and who you know, it's a lot more. It's actually like,

711
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 3: you know, two out of ten adults would identify as

712
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 3: LGBT and so.

713
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 2: Well, the question is the responsibility falls on this multi

714
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,320
Speaker 2: billion dollar public company to do that. It's just interesting

715
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 2: when you have like you know, say you have like

716
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 2: one of the housewive shows, the New York house Wives,

717
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 2: let's just say, and then you decide you're going to

718
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 2: put the three Upper east Side white women and you're

719
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:50,280
Speaker 2: going to have three black women and one trans person

720
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 2: on the show, when their initial mandate was that it

721
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 2: has to be people that are really friends. So now

722
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 2: it's not even like like Ramona and Ebony were not friends,

723
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 2: and this show tried to like put them together to

724
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 2: be friends, and then the audience is like, wait, this

725
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 2: isn't real. So those are interesting.

726
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so.

727
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,399
Speaker 2: Nuanced, but yeah, but you are a composition show.

728
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, show, it's not even friends, so so there's less

729
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,240
Speaker 3: of a reason to kind.

730
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 2: Of you know, no, yeah, you could cast anybody you want.

731
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 3: But even in the Housewives sort of uh examples. The

732
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,879
Speaker 3: key or the kicker is the business of it all.

733
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 3: When when we're trying to make money, when we're trying

734
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 3: to make money from the show with advertising and different things,

735
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 3: then we needed to be as as appeal to as

736
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 3: many people as possible. We want the Upper west Side,

737
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 3: Upper east Side white women, but we also want people

738
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 3: who are in Brooklyn who like, we want everyone to

739
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 3: watch it, and that's where where they have to figure

740
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 3: out how they're going to balance it because they know

741
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 3: that the people from Brooklyn, or the people from the

742
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 3: South or the people from this aren't going to watch

743
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 3: just one group that's not like them, and vice versa.

744
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 3: The people from the Upper East Side are not necessarily

745
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 3: watching a show about a bunch of black folks from Brooklyn,

746
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 3: and so they have to find a way to balance it.

747
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,879
Speaker 3: And that's where it's maybe inauthentic, but you know, there

748
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 3: are those pockets where it really does mix.

749
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: You know, I guess yes, no, and you.

750
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 2: Have to So what is I never heard the term

751
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 2: dead name?

752
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 3: Dead name is a term uh that's used by people

753
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 3: in the queer community to uh. To dead name refers

754
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 3: to someone's a word or a name, a name that

755
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 3: someone that is associated with someone previously.

756
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: In their past.

757
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,959
Speaker 3: And for for people who aren't queer, or who aren't

758
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 3: in the trans community, or who that maybe to that

759
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 3: term is new to it basically is the name that

760
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 3: that person was given when they were younger, when their

761
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,800
Speaker 3: parents named them, for instance. But a lot of people

762
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 3: change their names, and so so you know, for some people,

763
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 3: being associated with their previous name can associate them with

764
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 3: places and people and things that give them bad memories.

765
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 3: For instance, yeah, someone was married and they had their

766
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:17,399
Speaker 3: abusive partner's name when they were married. They might want

767
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 3: to whether they get married again or not, they might

768
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 3: want to change that name. And they might not want

769
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 3: to be referred to by that old name because it

770
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 3: reminds them of that abusive partner a terrible time in

771
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 3: their life, when they were depressed or when something was

772
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 3: terrible going wrong. And it also may say to them

773
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 3: it may if depending on the name, if that name

774
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 3: is a well known name of an abuser, you might

775
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 3: you're not going to want to keep that old name

776
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 3: as a married person, because then other people will treat

777
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 3: you differently and not for who you really are, you know.

778
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 1: What I mean.

779
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 3: When you meet someone new in life, they tell you

780
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:51,879
Speaker 3: their name, and what do you do next? You call

781
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 3: them that name. You don't dig and be like, well

782
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,879
Speaker 3: let me go back. You don't like, you know, get

783
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 3: a private investment. Really is her name really Sally? You

784
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 3: don't do that for the average person. When Sally comes

785
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,240
Speaker 3: up to you and says I'm Sally, you call her Sally,

786
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 3: you know.

787
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 1: And so that's what we're trying to do.

788
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 3: But Unfortunately, there is an effort by some to expose

789
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:18,240
Speaker 3: trans people. Only, not married people who are formerly connected

790
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 3: to an abusive person, not cis gender people who have

791
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 3: decided to change their name for different reasons, But there's

792
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 3: an effort to expose trans people and sort of communicate

793
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 3: that trans people are perpetrators and are liars, and are

794
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 3: sneaky and are trying to be deceptive, and so people

795
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 3: are trying to connect that to the desire to not

796
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 3: be associated with a name that's harmful, a name that

797
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,439
Speaker 3: reminds us of a really terrible time in our lives,

798
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 3: and a name that doesn't reflect who we are.

799
00:41:50,600 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 2: Makes sense. Okay, so you're you act, you sing, you dance, Like,

800
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 2: what's your primary passion and career?

801
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 3: Girl, I'm I'm I'm cursed with the passion of wanting

802
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 3: to do knitting and singing and dancing and politics all

803
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 3: at the same time, which is terrible for Riley know

804
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:25,800
Speaker 3: who you are.

805
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 2: Well, it's I think it's more terrible, is not. I

806
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,439
Speaker 2: think terrible is a terrible word for it. But I think,

807
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,879
Speaker 2: like for branding purposes, it's challenging because if you try

808
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 2: to please everybody, you please nobody. You know, what so so,

809
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 2: so what is the base? Like what are you working on?

810
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 2: But by the way, I'm I don't know how old

811
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 2: you are. You're younger than I am, obviously, but I'm

812
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 2: at a certain age where I really do exactly what

813
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,760
Speaker 2: I want to do. So I just was in Vancouver

814
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 2: and did a Lifetime movie and I didn't have any

815
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 2: reason to do it. It doesn't have anything to do

816
00:42:57,920 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 2: with my brand. I did it because it was presented

817
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 2: to me and it was different. But from like a

818
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 2: let me say, rand strategic perspective. If I were in

819
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 2: my like thirties and my building phase, I might not

820
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 2: have done it because it's not like the path I'm on.

821
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,359
Speaker 3: I grew up as an actor and a singer, and

822
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 3: I remember, uh, you know, and that's musical theater is

823
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 3: the thing obviously Broadway, like it's been a thing forever,

824
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 3: acting and singing at the same time. But when it

825
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,800
Speaker 3: comes to Hollywood, which is different than Broadway, right, Broadway,

826
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 3: it's like professional theater in New York primarily less commercial. Yeah,

827
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 3: less commercial. Hollywood is obviously extremely commercial. And so I

828
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 3: remember seeing actors, serious actors sort of being made fun

829
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 3: of for making making music, making an album you know,

830
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 3: or or singers being told, oh, she can't act, why

831
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:52,760
Speaker 3: is she trying to get in this movie? You're a singer,

832
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 3: Stay in your own lane. And I do remember that

833
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 3: being the j Low thing and other people. I do

834
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 3: remember that being a thing. It's maybe still a thing,

835
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 3: but certainly not as much as that it was twenty

836
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 3: years ago. And so I think now the lanes are

837
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 3: opening up for people. You know, people can talk about

838
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,240
Speaker 3: politics and also be a musician. I remember the Dixie

839
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 3: Chicks had had quite a time being told literally shut

840
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,839
Speaker 3: up and sang, which was their film that they made

841
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 3: when they started speaking out politically, Whereas now people expect

842
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 3: actors to speak out on some of the terrible things

843
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 3: that are happening in the world today, and so it's

844
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,320
Speaker 3: a different it's a different vibe. So in that realm,

845
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 3: I think I'm at the right time and right place.

846
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 3: I am an actor. I've been on Broadway, I've been

847
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 3: in film and TV. I do sing. I went to

848
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,399
Speaker 3: school for musical theater, Broadways my passion. So having been

849
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 3: on Broadway, of course I love to sing. So I

850
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 3: love to sing, whether I'm on stage or not. I

851
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 3: have music that I've made and put out, and.

852
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,839
Speaker 2: So you're an entertainer activist.

853
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 3: Entertainer one hundred and I don't even call myself an activist.

854
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,879
Speaker 3: Of course, I've been involved in activism, but I think

855
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 3: an activist is someone who sort of does that primarily

856
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 3: and maybe even earn a living from it.

857
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 1: I don't live in that.

858
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,919
Speaker 2: It's like me with philanthropy. People call me a philanthropist,

859
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 2: and it makes me uncomfortable, just like calling me an

860
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 2: author because I've written books. It's not my identity.

861
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I've certainly done those things, and you're important

862
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 3: to me.

863
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 2: So yeah, I get people call you that because you

864
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 2: go and do something and then you feel.

865
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: That then it's your responsibility.

866
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, exactly. And it feels fraudulent too in a way.

867
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 2: I get that. I don't like being called a philanthropist

868
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 2: because it makes it just sounds like I don't like

869
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 2: the way it sounds, even though I do a ton

870
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 2: of charity. I get that. Yeay, So so nice to

871
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 2: talk to you and to you know, learn, I had

872
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 2: such a great time, really really nice.

873
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 1: You're a beautiful I mean.

874
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 3: You are beautiful inside and out, and I'm really thank

875
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 3: you so much.

876
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 1: And I have to say thank you.

877
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 3: I know that the past couple of years have been

878
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,439
Speaker 3: wild when it comes to reality TV, but I do

879
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 3: think that one of the big changes that has to

880
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 3: happen in reality TV is a little bit more accountability,

881
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 3: not only from networks and you know, people running the

882
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 3: show and behind the scenes, but just in general being

883
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 3: able to have more protections because reality TV is not

884
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 3: going anywhere. It's here to stay, and the people who

885
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 3: are on these reality shows, they are talent, They deserve

886
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 3: to earn money, they deserve protections, and I think they

887
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 3: deserve the same types of protections and considerations that actors

888
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 3: would on a set of a movie or any other

889
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 3: TV show. They are making entertainment, and people are making

890
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 3: money off of these shows in the same way that

891
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 3: they would make money off of sometimes more especially yeah,

892
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 3: off of TV and film.

893
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 1: And so.

894
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 3: Although it's probably not the most desired way to go

895
00:46:56,120 --> 00:47:00,120
Speaker 3: about things necessarily, I think that you have set a

896
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 3: precedent and I'm seeing a lot of other conversations take

897
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 3: place because of it.

898
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 1: And I'm really grateful to you for that, because.

899
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 3: I come from a reality show that I think that

900
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 3: the performers the talent on those shows. My original reality show,

901
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 3: which is drag Race, deserve you know, certain protections and

902
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 3: considerations as well. And I think that ultimately the brand,

903
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,400
Speaker 3: the show, the health of the brand, and the integrity

904
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 3: of the brand will be better off if they're able

905
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 3: to make those types of considerations. And so what you've

906
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 3: done has set a precedent and I'm grateful for that.

907
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 2: I appreciate that because it's funny because I'm hearing from

908
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 2: so many people that changes are being made, but no

909
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 2: one will stand up and say that they're making changes,

910
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 2: because then it indicates that they've been screwing up, you know,

911
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 2: and to the point of before being an activist or

912
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,799
Speaker 2: a philanthropist like this isn't my cause. I'm not on

913
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 2: Washington marching for reality television and you know what I mean, Like,

914
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 2: that's not my I just said something and wanted to,

915
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 2: you know, be to support people who I didn't realize

916
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 2: had been exploited. And it's not the popular people that

917
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 2: are making a lot of money that are complaining. It's

918
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 2: the people that felt discarded. And I know that the

919
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 2: audience doesn't want their junk food taken away, and I

920
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 2: get that it is entertaining, and you're right, it's not

921
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 2: going anywhere, But there are a lot of things behind

922
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 2: the scenes that people don't really know, and it's interesting.

923
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 2: It's not what it seems, and no one knows what

924
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,439
Speaker 2: they sign up for, like they don't they say it now.

925
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 2: By now, I think people kind of do because it's

926
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 2: been so focused on But there has been a shift

927
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:37,240
Speaker 2: and that's great. You know, I don't need everyone who's

928
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 2: on the show is trying to protect the realm to

929
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 2: credit me. It's totally cool. But I appreciate you saying

930
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 2: that because I'm hearing that from a lot of people,

931
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 2: like Underground saying it's changing and thank you, but you know,

932
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:51,839
Speaker 2: the powers that be won't say it, so it's cool. Well,

933
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 2: thank you so much and really great to meet you

934
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 2: and talk to you. Awesome, thank you, awesome, I'd have

935
00:48:57,920 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 2: a great day.

936
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Babe,