1 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: Diversion audio. A note this episode contains mature content and 2 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: descriptions of violence that may be disturbing for some listeners. 3 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 1: Please take care and listening. Anne's heart was pounding as 4 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 1: she headed into the old Victorian mansion that housed the 5 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:41,239 Speaker 1: offices for the Seattle Crisis Clinic. After weeks of training 6 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: on mock phone calls, now she would sit in on 7 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: actual calls. Anne's reasons for volunteering with the suicide hotline 8 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: were deeply personal. Her younger brother had taken his life 9 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: when he was only twenty one. He'd been a promising 10 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: young medical student with a bright future. She knew she 11 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: couldn't undo what happened to him, but maybe if she 12 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: could remember her training and say the right thing, she 13 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: could save someone else from ending their life the same way. 14 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: Anne climbed the stairs to the wood paneled office at 15 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: the top of the building. She was greeted by the 16 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 1: seasoned volunteer who would be training her for the night. 17 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: In the next room, a young man was already seated 18 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: in front of the imposing foam bank. This would be 19 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: her partner at the hotline. He was handsome and clean shaven, 20 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 1: with wavy brown hair cut just above the ears. The 21 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: trainer smiled and gestured towards the man. This is Ted Bundy. 22 00:01:49,720 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: He'll be working with you. Welcome to the greatest true 23 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: crime stories ever told. I'm Mary Kay McBrayer. Today's episode 24 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 1: we're calling true crime writing's gold standard and Rule and 25 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: her friend Ted Bundy. It's the story of Anne Rule, 26 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 1: an icon who's published more than thirty true crime novels 27 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: and redefined the genre for an entire generation of Americans. 28 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: She wrote multiple best sellers, broke barriers for female crime writers, 29 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: and unwittingly befriended one of the most notorious serial killers 30 00:02:51,840 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: of all time. More after the break, we've all met 31 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: that guy who instantly creeped us out. Let me give 32 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:24,799 Speaker 1: you a hypothetical situation to simulate the experience. Say you're 33 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,679 Speaker 1: heading to a family holiday event. You pull up ten 34 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:32,959 Speaker 1: or fifteen minutes before eating time, like etiquette dictates, I mean, 35 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: unless the hostess has asked you specifically to come early 36 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: to help set up, of course, and there's a white 37 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:46,119 Speaker 1: utility van already parked outside. It's either taking up two spots, 38 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: locking the flow of traffic, or parked in front of 39 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: the mailbox. So even if you don't know who it is. 40 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: You already have your first red flag, well first two, really, 41 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: since no one should be driving a white utility van 42 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: except subcontractors or police undercover as florists. But you do 43 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: know who it is, and you know he's already been 44 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 1: here for a while because he always shows up early 45 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: to box someone into a religious conversation while hovering underfoot, 46 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: and while the hosts are trying to prepare. He didn't 47 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: bring anything to contribute, not even a bag of ice 48 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: or flowers for your mom. Your family found him at church. 49 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: He goes to a lot of churches. He says he 50 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: has the whole Bible memorized. He recites deep cuts of 51 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: scripture that seem unrelated to anything at hand, and he 52 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: interprets them aloud in front of you, an acquaintance in 53 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: intuitive leaps you can't track, and those interpretations seem to 54 00:04:55,520 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: stop just short of misogyny. At the meal, he's a 55 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: picky eater, asking if anything has touched pork. Stuff like that. 56 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: He scarfs down his food, and though the rest of 57 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: you are only halfway through, he asks if he can 58 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: have a private conversation with one of the men at 59 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: the table, and you won't see that relative again until 60 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: it's time to leave. You feel a little bit bad 61 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: about how hard you're judging him. Maybe he is just 62 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: very performative about his beliefs. Maybe he is just a 63 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:37,840 Speaker 1: completely socially unaware pity invite. Maybe the reason he's never 64 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: spoken directly to you, despite knowing your family for decades 65 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 1: is because he's intimidated, not because he hates women as 66 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: a group. Maybe every single thing that sent your spidey 67 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: sense is tingling can be explained away as innocuous, but 68 00:05:56,480 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: it won't dispel the fact that this guy has bad vibes. 69 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 1: It only takes one person, one cousin or plus one 70 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 1: to acknowledge one off kilter behavior to vindicate your intuitions. Like, 71 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: for example, after the family prayer, which he added to 72 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 1: just as you all said amen, he starts muttering another 73 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: prayer in another language, loud enough for everyone to hear, 74 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: but quiet enough where no one can make out the words. 75 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: And then your stepsister's eyebrows furrow unconsciously, and then you 76 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 1: snap out of it. Van parking, bad manners, fundamentalism, creepy prayer, 77 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 1: picky eater. That's it. You're giving this guy a wide 78 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: berth and hiding behind your biggest uncle until Easter's over. 79 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: My point is, you know it when you meet a creep. 80 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: You know it without having evidence to support it. Call 81 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:00,799 Speaker 1: it emotional, call it intuition, call it whatever you want. 82 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: You know that creepy feeling. It doesn't go away no 83 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: matter how much you try to rationalize it. But here's 84 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: the thing, and I cannot overstate this fact. Meeting a 85 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: creep is exactly the opposite of how women experience their 86 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: first interaction with Ted Bundy. He showed no warning signs. 87 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: He was a handsome, normal acting guy who was pretty 88 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: charming and easy to work with. That was his whole stick. 89 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: It's why he got away with it for so long. 90 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: And it was a long time after she initially met 91 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: him that Anne Rule realized Ted Bundy was a full 92 00:07:46,680 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: on sociopathic murderer. Some people are drawn to true crime. 93 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: They pick up a copy of In Cold Blood or 94 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: Helter Skelter and it sparks up an insatiable curiosity, a 95 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: need to know why people do the things they do. 96 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: For me, it's preventative and definitely anxiety related. I need 97 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: to know all the most terrible shit so I can 98 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: avoid it, or at least try to. But Anne Rule 99 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: wasn't drawn to true crime so much as she was 100 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: born to it. Anne came from a law enforcement family. 101 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 1: One uncle was a medical examiner, another was a sheriff 102 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: near the small Michigan town where Anne was born, one 103 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:53,719 Speaker 1: cousin was a prosecuting attorney, and her maternal grandfather was 104 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 1: a sheriff. In fact, that grandfather lived in the same 105 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: building that housed the Stanton County Jail. As a kid, 106 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: Anne spent her summers there. She helped her grandmother prepare 107 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,719 Speaker 1: meals for the prisoners and slid trays of food through 108 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: a narrow slot in the locked pantry door. She even 109 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: learned to crochet from the sweet woman in the cell upstairs. 110 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: The same sweet woman was about to go on trial 111 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: for shooting her husband. Most seven year olds might have 112 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: been less excited about spending their vacation within the cement 113 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:38,839 Speaker 1: walls of a county jail, but Anne was fascinated by it. 114 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: She wanted to know how these people had ended up 115 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: in prison, in her words, what made them that way. 116 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: After high school, Anne earned her bachelor's degree in Creative 117 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: writing with a minor and abnormal psychology and even though 118 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 1: she had a clear talent for writing, what she really 119 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: wanted to do was police work. Just after college, she 120 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: joined the Seattle Police Department with aspirations of working in 121 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:13,199 Speaker 1: the homicide unit, and then she failed her eye exam. 122 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: There went that dream. Dropping out of the police force 123 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: was devastating. In a later interview with KCTS nine, Anne 124 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,319 Speaker 1: said she was so heartbroken by quitting that she would 125 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: go blocks out of her way to avoid driving past 126 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: the public safety building. Still, even though she didn't get 127 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: to be a detective, she was the youngest woman ever 128 00:10:46,600 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: accepted into the Seattle Police Department. After that, remaining with 129 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: the police force seemed too painful, she quit the department 130 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 1: entirely and initially went on to become a social worker. 131 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: It was only much later, when her husband left his 132 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:19,959 Speaker 1: job to go back to school, that Ann started writing, 133 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 1: and that was mostly to make ends me. In nineteen 134 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 1: sixty eight, Anne started writing true crime articles for the 135 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: kind of pulpy magazine that usually sports a sexy, terrified 136 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: blonde with a lot of cleavage on the front cover. 137 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: This was not exactly Pulitzer winning stuff. She wrote articles 138 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,079 Speaker 1: like I went to prison to sleep with my sister's husband, 139 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: and because I wanted babies, Joe screamed at me, you 140 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:53,559 Speaker 1: want a stud not a husband. Of course, the editors 141 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: at True Detective Magazine didn't think the readers would buy 142 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: that a woman could possibly know anything about crime, so 143 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: for the first few years that she worked there, Anne 144 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: wrote under a slew of male pseudonyms. Incidentally, one of 145 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: these pseudonyms happened to be Chris Hanson. This was years 146 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 1: before dateline, but I guess people have always trusted a 147 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: man with a waspy name to expose criminals. She was 148 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: writing twenty thousand words a week with four kids at home, 149 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: and she didn't even get to do it under her 150 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: own name. That's dedication or dire necessity because the cost 151 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: of diapers is entirely too high. Either way, it's admirable 152 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: and frustrating. In her spare time, Anne was doing everything 153 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: she could to shore up her credentials as an expert 154 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: on all things true crime. She was taking classes, attending seminars. 155 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:52,559 Speaker 1: She learned everything from how to identify whether a fire 156 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: was arson to the ins and outs of criminal psychology. 157 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 1: But as it turned out, her big brain wouldn't come 158 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 1: from the hundreds of hours of hard work that she 159 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: was putting into her career, not directly like most big breaks. 160 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: If she hadn't been working her ass off for years 161 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: to ensure a right place, right time scenario, it would 162 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: have seemed like a coincidence. In nineteen seventy one, Anne's 163 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: life was getting messy. I don't mean that as a judgment. 164 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: I mean, who among us has never been a mess? But, 165 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: like Mindy Kaling said, if you're going to be a mess, 166 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: you might as well be a hot mess. Anne's career 167 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: was climbing, but her marriage was hovering on the precipice 168 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:45,079 Speaker 1: of divorce. With four kids and not enough income to 169 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 1: support them, Anne wasn't sure if she could handle being 170 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:53,079 Speaker 1: a single mother. Everybody reacts differently to being in a 171 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: spot like that. Some people want to bury their head 172 00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 1: in the sand, Ostrich style. Some people want to throw 173 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: a Molotov cocktail into the mix, take ten tequila shots 174 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,839 Speaker 1: and just see what happens. Some of us put our 175 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: nose to the grindstone and crank that shit out, because 176 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:13,719 Speaker 1: what would you have me do? Fail? And maybe when 177 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 1: you come up for breath, you also reward yourself with 178 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: snacks and tequila it takes all kinds. Anne's solution was 179 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: probably the healthiest. This is some of the best advice 180 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: I've ever heard. When you feel helpless, do something to 181 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: help someone else. I'm not sure that Anne Rule ever 182 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: felt helpless, but her solution was helping others. She started 183 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: working at the suicide hotline. At the hotline, Anne met 184 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: a friend whom she could really trust, someone she could 185 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: tell her problems too without fear of judgment. And you 186 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: already know that this monster was Ted Bundy. Have you 187 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: ever had the intrusive thought of what if my work 188 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: husband was Ted Bundy? That really happened to her, y'all 189 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: At the time, Ted was a twenty five year old 190 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: psychology student at the University of Washington. He had been 191 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: assigned to the crisis clinic as part of his work 192 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: study program, and Anne was his partner there. Every Tuesday 193 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: and Sunday, they would work their assigned shifts in the 194 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: clinic's cozy attic offices. Ann's shift lasted from ten pm 195 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: to two am. Though there were plenty of calls, there 196 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: was also plenty of downtime, long hours that stretched away 197 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: through the night with nothing to do but talk. Anne 198 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: liked Ted She liked his clean look and gentlemanly effect. 199 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: She liked the way he walked her to her car 200 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: after shifts. And we all know and have been told 201 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: repeatedly by true crime novices that yes, he's handsome, Like yeah, nuby, 202 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: he was classically hot. That was how he'd have got 203 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: your ass. I mean, not that anyone deserves to get got, 204 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: of course, but this is fifty years later. There's no 205 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: excuse for not reflecting now. You can't just learn that 206 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: he was hot part of the story. Finish the sentence 207 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: he was hot, And that's when normal alarm bells don't 208 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: go off like they should. Your biology is betraying you. 209 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: I know I'm preaching to the converted. Everyone listening here 210 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: knows you have to be especially wary of men who 211 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: are handsome because they abide by a different set of rules, 212 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: or like no rules at all. Remember when John Hamm 213 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: ordered off the diner's menu in thirty Rock and the 214 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: waitress just smiled at him. Yeah. What Anne really liked 215 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: about Ted was how easy he was to talk to. 216 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: She told him all about the problems she was having 217 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: with her husband, though they'd been planning to get a 218 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: divorce Anne's husband had just been diagnosed with a malignant melanoma, 219 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,199 Speaker 1: and Anne didn't know how she could leave him when 220 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 1: he needed her most. Ted empathized with Anne's problems, and 221 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: in return, she listened to his. He told her he'd 222 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: never known who his real father was, how he'd lost 223 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: the love of his life, and how in spite of 224 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: one disappointment after another, he'd overcome it all. Listeners, we 225 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: know that's not true. Ted was born to Eleanor Louise 226 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 1: Cowell in nineteen forty six. Eleanor, later known as Louise, 227 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 1: grew up in a deeply religious family. She was still 228 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,439 Speaker 1: living with her parents when she found out she was 229 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 1: pregnant at the age of twenty two. Soon afterwards, Louise 230 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: left home to avoid the wrath of her tyrannical father. 231 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: She traveled to Burlington, Vermont, and gave birth an a home 232 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:14,880 Speaker 1: for unwed mothers there. Eventually, her parents agreed to let 233 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: her and the baby that's Ted back into their home 234 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 1: as long as they could pretend that the baby had 235 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: been adopted by his grandparents and that Louise was his sister. 236 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 1: Ted had always suspected his true parentage, and in nineteen 237 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 1: sixty nine, after a series of career disappointments, he traveled 238 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: back east to confirm it. Some part of them had 239 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: always known the truth. Still seeing the word illegitimate stamped 240 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: in black and white on his birth paperwork at the 241 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: Burlington City Hall, sent Ted reeling. Ted had always idealized 242 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: his grandfather. Though other family members would later describe the 243 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 1: man as a sadistic bigot with a volatile temper, Ted 244 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: refused to see him as anything other than a loving father. 245 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:09,640 Speaker 1: Now it turned out the old man had never been 246 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: his father at all, Ted felt unmoored, unsure of who 247 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: he really was. I'm not going to pretend that wouldn't 248 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,439 Speaker 1: have been a difficult adjustment, especially at that point in time. 249 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:27,120 Speaker 1: But family does take all forms. So Ted left back 250 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: to the West Coast to the person who could make 251 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: him feel as if he belonged. Her name was Diane Edwards. 252 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: Ted and Diane had dated for just over a year. 253 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: She came from a background of wealth and privilege and 254 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: was everything he aspired to be. Stylish, rich, respected. With 255 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: her on his arm, Ted knew that people would take 256 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: him seriously. They would finally see him as a part 257 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 1: of the upper class, as somewhat important, someone who belonged 258 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: at the highest echalons of society. Unfortunately for Ted, Diane 259 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 1: didn't share his vision for their future together. In fact, 260 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: she'd already intimated as much before he left for Vermont. 261 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: In June of nineteen sixty eight, Diane graduated from the 262 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: University of Washington. She'd accepted a job in San Francisco 263 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: and made no plans to bring Ted along with her. 264 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: When Ted returned from Vermont and surprised her in the Bay, 265 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: she made it crystal clear things were over between them 266 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:56,880 Speaker 1: and Diane was done with him. Ted told Anne all 267 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 1: of this during their long nights together at the Crisis 268 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: Clinic hotline. And the thing is, most of it was true. 269 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: It was also true that he had seemingly overcome that adversity. 270 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,160 Speaker 1: He'd gotten his life back on track. He was back 271 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,160 Speaker 1: in school, an honor student with plans to go into 272 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: politics or law. He was even dating someone new. Ted 273 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: was good now, He said, he was headed in the 274 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 1: right direction. And that's the thing about a good liar. 275 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 1: Most of what they say is true. It's just that 276 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: one lie buried deep in a barrel of fact. Ted 277 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 1: had shared most of his and Diane's relationship with Anne, 278 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 1: but he was far from over it. Six years after 279 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: the breakup, he sought her out while on a business 280 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: trip to San Francisco. To Diane, Ted seemed like an 281 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: entire different person. He was swathe and confident, assured of 282 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: his place at the top of the world. This was 283 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: the change she had been looking for. They started dating again, 284 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: but this time it was Ted who would be calling 285 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: the shots. That September, Ted and Diane got engaged. Then 286 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: in late December of nineteen seventy three, he pulled the 287 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: rug out from under her. The whole thing had been 288 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: an elaborate ruse. He'd wanted to make Diane fall in 289 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,879 Speaker 1: love with him so that he could reject her the 290 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 1: way that she rejected him, and that is psychotic. Ted 291 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: had gotten what he wanted, but it wasn't enough. Days 292 00:22:49,400 --> 00:23:13,919 Speaker 1: after their breakup, the murders began. On January fourth of 293 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four, eighteen year old Karen Sparks was assaulted 294 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: in the basement apartment she shared with three other students 295 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: at the University of Washington. Karen was beaten to within 296 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,439 Speaker 1: an inch of her life and sexually assaulted with a 297 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: metal rod that punctured her bladder. It nearly killed her. 298 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: It's a miracle she survived. She made it out of 299 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 1: that horror and worked hard to overcome the physical damage 300 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: he had left her with. She got married, had a family, 301 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: and a career. All that year, the disappearances would come 302 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: like clockwork. In April, there was Linda Anne Healy, who 303 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: was abducted from her apartment just a few blocks away 304 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: from where Karen Sparks had lived. Then in March, Dona 305 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: Gale Manson, a nineteen year old music student at Evergreen 306 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: State College, disappeared on her way to a jazz concert. 307 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: In April, Susan Elaine Rancourt, a student at Central Washington 308 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: State University, vanished after starting a load of laundry. In May, 309 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 1: Kathy Parks left her dorm room at Oregon State to 310 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: meet friends for coffee. She never made it. At this point, 311 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 1: it truly seemed like the killer could strike anywhere. No 312 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: one was safe. The murders were occurring closer together, too. 313 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: There were two in June, less than two weeks apart. 314 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: One of the women who vanished was twenty two year 315 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 1: old Brenda Ball. This close to home for Anne Rule, 316 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: as Ball had been an acquaintance of her daughters. In 317 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,160 Speaker 1: spite of the chaos going on in her personal life, 318 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,439 Speaker 1: Anne had been keenly aware of the disappearances. That summer 319 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy four, Anne's divorce was being finalized, her 320 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: husband's cancer had stopped growing, and she was ready to 321 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: set out on her new life as a single mother. 322 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: The largest challenge would be making enough money to support 323 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: her family. There would be no more time for long 324 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: night shifts at the crisis clinic. Thankfully, Anne's career as 325 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: a writer had been going very well. She started reaching 326 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: out more frequently to detectives in the Seattle and King 327 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: County homicide units, and before long she was offered a 328 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 1: book deal to write about the developing cases. As Anne 329 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,400 Speaker 1: looked into the abductions, she began to see the obvious 330 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: similarities between them. Almost all of the victims were attractive, wealthy, 331 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: young white women, with slim builds and long, dark hair 332 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: parted down the middle. Most had been taken from public places, 333 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: and in many cases, witnesses nearby had reported seeing a 334 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: handsome young man with his arm or leg in a cast. 335 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 1: One witness even remembers the man asking if she could 336 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,120 Speaker 1: help him carry his briefcase to his car, a tan 337 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: Volkswagen Beetle. She said she would, but first she had 338 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 1: to grab something from inside her sorority house. She dashed inside, 339 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,439 Speaker 1: but she took longer than she'd intended, and when she 340 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 1: came back out, the man had disappeared. Then, in the 341 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 1: summer of nineteen seventy four, the murders seemed to come 342 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 1: to a grisly culmination. I probably don't have to tell 343 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,479 Speaker 1: you that warm sunny days are few and far between 344 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 1: in Washington State, and Sunday, July fourteenth was one for 345 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: the books. That day, forty thousand people packed into the 346 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: grassy tree lined park along the shores of Lake Sammish 347 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: State Park. Among them were Denise Nasland and Janis Ott. 348 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,159 Speaker 1: Janis had only been there a few minutes when a 349 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: handsome young man with his arminous sling approached her. A 350 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: group of sunbathers overheard him introduce himself as Ted. Later 351 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,679 Speaker 1: that same day, eighteen year old Denise was stopped by 352 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: a young man with his arminous ling. Neither woman was 353 00:27:52,000 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 1: ever seen alive again. After the abductions at Lake Sammymish, 354 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: Washington State descended into a full frenzy. Headlines warned of 355 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: the mysterious Ted who was abducting people in broad daylight. 356 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: Witnesses provided a rough sketch of the suspect, and now 357 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: calls were pouring into the tip line. One of those 358 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: calls was from Anne Rule. Anne had been wrestling with 359 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 1: the idea of calling in a tip about her friend 360 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: for months. Of course, Ted couldn't possibly be the killer. 361 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: The kind, thoughtful man she knew had been an upstanding 362 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: member of society. The last time she'd seen him, he'd 363 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: just graduated from college, he was practically engaged to his 364 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: longtime girlfriend, and headed for a successful career in law. 365 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: He'd been on the Crime Prevention Advisory Commission, for God's sakes, 366 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: it just didn't seem possible. But at the same time, 367 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: something nagged at her that picture did look an awful 368 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: lot like him, and he lived so close to the 369 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: area where Linda, George, Anne, and Karen had been attacked. 370 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: Not only that, but for the second time that year, 371 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: the murders included someone she'd had a personal connection to. 372 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: Denise Naslynd, babysat for a close friend of hers. Anne's 373 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: own daughters were fast approaching the age of many of 374 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 1: the victims. If there was even the slimmest chance that 375 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: Ted Bundy had something to do with these disappearances, then 376 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: she had to act. Anne called one of her friends 377 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: on the force and told him that she just wanted 378 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: to put her mind at ease. Witnesses were counted that 379 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: the killer was driving a tan VW Bug. Anne didn't 380 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: even think Ted had a car anymore, and she was 381 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: hoping the officer could find out. Twenty minutes later, the 382 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: officer called her back. Ted did have a car, a 383 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: bronze VW Bug. Thanks to Anne's tip, the picture from 384 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: Ted's driver's license went into the suspect pool. Unfortunately, at 385 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: that point there were twenty four hundred other suspects who 386 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: had been called in by people in the Seattle area, 387 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: Plus the trail was going cold anyway. After the two 388 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: kidnappings at Lake Sammish, the disappearances had abruptly stopped. Authorities 389 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: had no idea what exactly caused it. Had the killer 390 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: died or been arrested for some other crime, or was 391 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 1: he just waiting until the heat died down. Either way, 392 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: no new disappearances meant no new clues. The most they 393 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: could do was to sort through their now extensive list 394 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 1: of suspects and hope something came of it. For the 395 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: Seattle PD the chase was over, but for detectives in 396 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: the state of Utah and Colorado it was only just beginning. 397 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: In the fall of nineteen seventy four, Ted Bundy was 398 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: falling apart. He'd moved to Utah to attend the University 399 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: of Utah Law school, but he couldn't keep up with 400 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: his classes. He was drinking more, and his relationship with 401 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: his new fiance had become cold and distant. As Ted's 402 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 1: life spun out of control, the cycle of murders and 403 00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 1: abductions began again. A lot of people like to pay 404 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: Ted Bundy as some kind of criminal mastermind, but I 405 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: don't think he is. He lived in a time when 406 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 1: there were no cell phones or CCTV footage, when police 407 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: departments from different states had to send files via snail mail. 408 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: Ted wasn't a genius. He was just lucky. In the 409 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: fall of nineteen seventy four, his luck would start to 410 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: run out. On November eighth, Ted Bundy attempted to abduct 411 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: Carol de Ranch when she was browsing a Walden's bookstore 412 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: but unlike many of Ted's other victims, Carol got away, 413 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 1: and unlike Karen Sparks, Carol remembered every detail of the 414 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: attack that would spell the beginning of the end for 415 00:32:53,760 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: Ted Bundy. In the fall of nineteen seventy five, things 416 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: were going well for Anne Rule. She grinded away for 417 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: years at True Detective magazine, and now all her hard 418 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 1: work was finally paying off. She received her first book contract. 419 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 1: After the dozens of articles she had written about the 420 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: Washington State killings, she would now be paid to write 421 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: a book about them, so something she had wanted for 422 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: a long time, ever since she read Truman Capoti's In 423 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: Cold Blood. I mean that book is the ultimate true 424 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: crime book. It made her decide that she wanted to 425 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 1: write a book about what was inside the head of 426 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: a killer. She had no idea how close she already was. 427 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: That September, Anne received a call from Ted. She hadn't 428 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: spoken to her old friend in years. She almost forgot 429 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: about the tip. She called in to the Seattle Police Department, 430 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 1: but as soon as she heard his voice, the memory 431 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: rushed back. Ted explained Seattle police were subpoenaing his law 432 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:09,280 Speaker 1: school records. He had hoped that Anne, with her connections 433 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: in law enforcement, might be able to tell him why. 434 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: Anne still felt a tremendous guilt for calling him in. 435 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: As far as she knew, Ted was telling the truth. 436 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 1: He'd been pulled over during a routine traffic stop, and 437 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: now police were drumming up bogus charges around possession of 438 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:33,280 Speaker 1: so called burglary tools. Anne agreed to make the call. 439 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: The officer who answered the phone told Anne that this 440 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: was just a routine matter, that he was one of 441 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: twelve hundred people being investigated. Ted believed the lie, but 442 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,400 Speaker 1: Anne had a bad feeling about it. The police needed 443 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 1: real evidence to get a subpoena. If they had that, well, 444 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 1: maybe there had been something to her suspicions. After all, 445 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 1: as usual, Ted's lies to Anne were embedded in a 446 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: foundation of truth. He had been pulled over at a 447 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:11,840 Speaker 1: routine traffic stop and arrested on possession of burglary tools. 448 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 1: What he hadn't told her was that those tools had 449 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 1: been the same ones used on ten women attacked in 450 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:23,840 Speaker 1: Utah and Colorado, or that Carrol de Roach had already 451 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 1: pulled his photo from a stack of mugshots. The officers 452 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: had shown her the police weren't looking at Ted as 453 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: one suspect out of many. He was their main suspect. 454 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 1: Within a week, he would be charged with aggravated kidnapping 455 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 1: and attempted criminal assault. Over the next few weeks, Anne 456 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 1: and Ted began to rekindle their friendship through letters. He 457 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 1: insisted to her, as he did to every one, that 458 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 1: he was entirely innocent. She wanted to believe it, but 459 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:06,879 Speaker 1: it was becoming harder. In spite of her doubts, Anne 460 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 1: provided emotional support and sent money for his prison commissary. 461 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:15,360 Speaker 1: The problem was, while she couldn't completely believe in his innocence, 462 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 1: she couldn't believe in his guilt either. She just didn't 463 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 1: know what happened. Maybe he was covering up for some 464 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,399 Speaker 1: other less atrocious crime, or maybe there was some other 465 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 1: explanation she didn't understand yet. But whatever Ted had done, 466 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:46,319 Speaker 1: Anne still wanted to be there for him. In late November, 467 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: Ted was freed on bail. He flew home to Seattle, 468 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 1: and shortly after his return, he and Anne met up 469 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 1: for lunch. The police warned against the encounter, but Anne 470 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 1: was insistent. She knew Ted, she trusted him, he would 471 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: never hurt her. Even though I know she survived this lunch, 472 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,279 Speaker 1: my heart elevator drops every time I think about it. 473 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 1: They met up at a basement level French bistro in 474 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:21,320 Speaker 1: the center of downtown Seattle. They sat and shared some hibbli. 475 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,440 Speaker 1: Even though years had passed, nothing felt changed at all. 476 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 1: Ted seemed utterly unperturbed by the charges against him. He 477 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 1: was an innocent man. How could they convict him when 478 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:39,479 Speaker 1: there was nothing to prove. Looking at him then, at 479 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 1: ease in the comfortable dining room, in his corduroys and 480 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 1: brown sweater, it was so easy to believe him. Anne 481 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: didn't tell him about her complicated feelings that afternoon, but 482 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be long before she had another chance. A 483 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: few months later, they met up again for drinks at 484 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 1: a lie pub on the outskirts of the city. By 485 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: this time, Ted had become thoroughly adept at losing his 486 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 1: police tale, and he assured Anne that there was no 487 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:13,719 Speaker 1: one watching them. They talked for hours, and as the 488 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 1: evening drew on, Anne finally found the courage to voice 489 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 1: her concern. She looked him in the eye and told 490 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:24,280 Speaker 1: him that she wasn't convinced of his innocence. This woman 491 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 1: had nerves of steel. Ted just smiled. He told her 492 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 1: it was okay, that there were things he would like 493 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:50,919 Speaker 1: to tell her, but he just couldn't. Anne would never 494 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,440 Speaker 1: know what they were. That was the last time she 495 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 1: would ever see him as a free man. Anne and 496 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:02,720 Speaker 1: Ted corresponded over the next ten years. At first, Anne 497 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 1: was sympathetic to Ted. A part of her really believed 498 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,399 Speaker 1: that he might be an innocent man. But bit by 499 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,840 Speaker 1: bit his actions chipped away at her doubts about his guilt. 500 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 1: There was his escape from the Pitkin County Courthouse in 501 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:21,799 Speaker 1: Aspen after he was found guilty of kidnapping and assaulting 502 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,480 Speaker 1: Carol de Roach. Ted Bundy jumped out a window and 503 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 1: went on the lamb for six days. But of course, 504 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:32,440 Speaker 1: an innocent man would want to escape an unjust conviction. 505 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:37,479 Speaker 1: Even after Ted's flight and Aspen, Anne continued to write 506 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:41,439 Speaker 1: him with sympathy and lend him money. She even sent 507 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 1: him care packages. Then, in late December of nineteen seventy seven, 508 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 1: Ted escaped again. This time, he'd spent six weeks carefully 509 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,760 Speaker 1: sawing through an electrical plate above his cell. He crawled 510 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 1: up into the ceiling and escaped through one one of 511 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:05,440 Speaker 1: the guard's apartments that adjoined the jail. Hours before his escape, 512 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,280 Speaker 1: he called Anne at the hotel where she was staying 513 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:13,160 Speaker 1: in Hollywood. At the time, Anne's career was taking off. 514 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,920 Speaker 1: She hadn't yet finished her book on Ted Bundy's case, 515 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 1: but a film production company had shown interest in one 516 00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,480 Speaker 1: of the magazine articles she'd written. Now she was in 517 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 1: Los Angeles to talk to producers about writing her first 518 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 1: film script. When Ted called her that night in nineteen 519 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 1: seventy seven, he asked for her address in Los Angeles. 520 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:41,120 Speaker 1: After his escape, Anne couldn't help wondering what he might 521 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 1: have had in mind for her. Her faith in him 522 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,400 Speaker 1: was beginning to crack, and by the time he resurfaced 523 00:40:49,440 --> 00:41:07,879 Speaker 1: in February, it crumbled entirely. At six fifteen a m. 524 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 1: On the morning of her first Hollywood premiere, Anne received 525 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:15,400 Speaker 1: a call from a distraught Ted. The day before, he 526 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:19,080 Speaker 1: was arrested in Pensacola, Florida, and now he wanted to 527 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,640 Speaker 1: get it all out. He wanted to tell Anne the 528 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:24,880 Speaker 1: things he hadn't been able to voice to her that 529 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 1: night in the tavern. Only now she was thousands of 530 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,440 Speaker 1: miles away, and there were a whole lot of lawyers 531 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:36,920 Speaker 1: and policemen standing between them. Whatever Ted had wanted to 532 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 1: tell her that night, Anne would never get to hear it, 533 00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,360 Speaker 1: and it really didn't matter any more. At this point. 534 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:47,200 Speaker 1: The truth was too obvious to ignore. Now she saw 535 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:52,440 Speaker 1: him for what he was, But people contained multitudes. As 536 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:56,040 Speaker 1: impossible as it seems, she could know and accept and 537 00:41:56,239 --> 00:42:01,319 Speaker 1: understand that her friend was a monster, and that he 538 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 1: had also been a good friend to her. Anne and 539 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:11,040 Speaker 1: Ted continued to correspond almost up until his execution. By 540 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,799 Speaker 1: the end, he was a manic, bitter husk of his 541 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:21,280 Speaker 1: former self. Anne moved on her book on Ted Bundy's killings. 542 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:26,360 Speaker 1: The Stranger Beside Me was a sensation. Anne had once 543 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,520 Speaker 1: felt that the only thing she wanted in the world 544 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:33,040 Speaker 1: was a book contract. Now she almost had more work 545 00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:38,520 Speaker 1: than she could handle. By nineteen eighty four, Anne completed 546 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:43,280 Speaker 1: her next three books, The Lust Killer, The Want ad Killer, 547 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:48,680 Speaker 1: and The I five Killer. All three did well, but 548 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,239 Speaker 1: none of them quite reached the bestseller status of The 549 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:57,360 Speaker 1: Stranger Beside Me. Anne's career was stagnating. For a moment, 550 00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 1: she must have felt like a one hit wonder. Then 551 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,200 Speaker 1: she heard about the case of a woman named Diane Downes. 552 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 1: Downes was an Oregon woman who had been arrested for 553 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 1: shooting her three children in the spring of nineteen eighty three. 554 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,120 Speaker 1: She did it because she was having an affair with 555 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,360 Speaker 1: a married man who didn't want children. There was something 556 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,160 Speaker 1: about the case that spoke to Anne that gave her, 557 00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 1: as she put it, a prickle on the back of 558 00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:27,640 Speaker 1: my neck. Diane Downes was exactly the type of person 559 00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:32,480 Speaker 1: she looked for and a good story. Someone attractive, intelligent, 560 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:36,439 Speaker 1: and charming, the last person you'd ever suspect of such 561 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 1: a heinous crime. Anne was fascinated by the case, and 562 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,640 Speaker 1: when you're writing about something you're really interested in, you 563 00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:48,920 Speaker 1: do your best work. Small sacrifices. Anne's book about Diane 564 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,600 Speaker 1: Downes was what took her from being a best selling 565 00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:56,799 Speaker 1: author to a household name. It received rave reviews, and 566 00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,919 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty nine it was made into an EMU 567 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:20,480 Speaker 1: nominated TV movie starring Farah Fawcett. In spite of all 568 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,720 Speaker 1: her success, Anne still found it hard to move past 569 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 1: those dark years of the nineteen seventies. The moment of 570 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:32,439 Speaker 1: Ted's execution neared. Anne got more than just a best 571 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,240 Speaker 1: selling book from that friendship. She also took away lessons 572 00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,799 Speaker 1: about what makes a criminal. Criminals don't have to be 573 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:43,720 Speaker 1: obvious creeps lurking in a parking lot. They can be charming, 574 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 1: good looking, even respected. After The Stranger Beside Me, those 575 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,480 Speaker 1: were specifically the types of murderers that Anne looked for, 576 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,520 Speaker 1: and we can still see the impact of her search 577 00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:01,800 Speaker 1: for those stories today, The Jinks, the Dropout, the Devil 578 00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,359 Speaker 1: in the White City. Anne Rule is the one who 579 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:42,000 Speaker 1: introduced us to the stories about charming, respected sociopaths. Thank 580 00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,480 Speaker 1: you to Anne Rule for writing the book The Stranger 581 00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:48,320 Speaker 1: Beside Me, which helped to write this episode. Other sources 582 00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:52,200 Speaker 1: include the KCTS nine interview series with Anne Rule, and 583 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,560 Speaker 1: several news articles. All of those sources are linked in 584 00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:59,319 Speaker 1: our show notes. If you want to learn more, join 585 00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:01,879 Speaker 1: me next week on The Greatest True Crime Stories Ever 586 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,520 Speaker 1: Told For a story about a woman who was breaking 587 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:08,320 Speaker 1: the glass ceiling in her own special way. In nineteen 588 00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:12,640 Speaker 1: seventy five, Sarah Jane Moore did something that only one 589 00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:16,520 Speaker 1: woman had ever attempted before. She tried to kill a 590 00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:29,520 Speaker 1: US president. The Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told is 591 00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,000 Speaker 1: a production of Diversion Audio. I'm Mary Kay mcbraer and 592 00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,440 Speaker 1: I hosted this episode and this episode was written by 593 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:41,520 Speaker 1: Zoe Luisa Lewis. Our show is produced by Emma Dumouth 594 00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:46,239 Speaker 1: and edited by Antonio Enriquez. Our theme music is by 595 00:46:46,280 --> 00:47:06,600 Speaker 1: Tyler Cash. Executive produced by Scott Waxman.