Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start
Speaker 1: changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hello and welcome
Speaker 1: to the Bectel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante and
Speaker 1: my name is Jamie Loftus, and you're listening to this
Speaker 1: podcast right now. Did you know that it is about
Speaker 1: the representation of women in film, examining that representation from
Speaker 1: an intersectional feminist lens. I didn't know that. Oh good, wow.
Speaker 1: But it's always a pleasure to be to be Well,
Speaker 1: it's not we're we're together? What was that like? Corny? Quarantine?
Speaker 1: Hashtag hashtag alone together. I'm like feeling mostly alone, but
Speaker 1: it is nice to see. It's nice to see you. Um,
Speaker 1: you know we're together in a sense. Sure, yes, digitally
Speaker 1: digital I know I can now only get zoomed to
Speaker 1: work on my phone and then sometimes my phone gets
Speaker 1: really hot, so look forward to that. Um. Anyway, great
Speaker 1: Betel cast. Um. We use the Bechtel test as a
Speaker 1: jumping off point, and traditionally the Bechtel test determines whether
Speaker 1: or not too named women speak to each other about
Speaker 1: something other than a man. We are approaching it a
Speaker 1: little differently moving forward, which is that due to people
Speaker 1: of marginalized genders speak to each other about something other
Speaker 1: than a man. And that is, you know, just a
Speaker 1: way to broaden the test and make it a little
Speaker 1: bit more inclusive. I don't think Alison Bechdel would disagree. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think she Would's who made the test? Oh yeah, yes, sorry,
Speaker 1: I forgot to manage that. I wonder about that sometimes
Speaker 1: because Alison Bechdel is so awesome, But then do you
Speaker 1: ever wonder like because she wrote it in a single
Speaker 1: comic and then she's like, and that that is my letters.
Speaker 1: It's like if you said something like smart offhand and
Speaker 1: then someone was still talking to you about there was
Speaker 1: a podcast about it thirty years later. Anyways, It's kind
Speaker 1: of That'll be like if um, in thirty years from
Speaker 1: now someone has a podcast called cat Facts with Caitlin
Speaker 1: and I'll be like, that's the thing you took away
Speaker 1: from my whole my body of work. You're like, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's a well and good, but there's just there was
Speaker 1: there was more there there was That's on us. I'm
Speaker 1: so excited for today's episode. Yes, we have a guest
Speaker 1: who are super excited about as well, all the way
Speaker 1: from Brooklyn, New York. She's a comedian, a writer, and
Speaker 1: co host of Bad Romance podcast. It's Jordan's Searles. Hello, welcome,
Speaker 1: thank you for being here. You are? You have? What
Speaker 1: mar Mango, Margarita? Hell? Yes, what a good edition to
Speaker 1: the show. So we're covering set it off the nine film. Jordan,
Speaker 1: what is your relationship your history with this movie? Um,
Speaker 1: this is just one of the movies that I grew
Speaker 1: up with. I don't even remember the first time that
Speaker 1: I watched it. I've watched it a million times since
Speaker 1: I was born in ninety two. And you know, so
Speaker 1: I feel like this this came out in and the
Speaker 1: moment that it hit cable, I was watching it all
Speaker 1: the time and it would play on B E T
Speaker 1: and Um, I've always liked it, but it's only recently
Speaker 1: that I've started to appreciate it in a different light,
Speaker 1: just because, like I think it was around the time
Speaker 1: like after Girls Trip, where people were talking about, oh,
Speaker 1: when was the last time that a bunch of women
Speaker 1: were in a movie together? And it did really well
Speaker 1: and the only other times that I could think of
Speaker 1: was waiting to exhale and set off, and I couldn't
Speaker 1: think of anything before that where it was just like
Speaker 1: more than one black woman, you know on the poster, right.
Speaker 1: So I was thinking about it a lot, and then
Speaker 1: I recently rewatched it and then bought it. So now
Speaker 1: I own it and i'm and I am very happy
Speaker 1: about that. And also since like I'm queer, I appreciate
Speaker 1: Queen Latifa's character way more than I did when I
Speaker 1: was a kid and I did not know that I
Speaker 1: was queer. Can't wait to talk about a bit more. Um, Jamie,
Speaker 1: what's your history with it? Uh? This is one of
Speaker 1: the many movies that I have seen in parts on
Speaker 1: cable TV, but it never sat down and watched it
Speaker 1: all the way through, beginning to end. I've seen many
Speaker 1: of the iconic scenes, but I had never taken in
Speaker 1: the full movie. And holy sh it, this movie is
Speaker 1: so great, Like I I, there's so much going on researching.
Speaker 1: The production of the movie was very interesting as well,
Speaker 1: like this movie has everything going for it, and expectedly
Speaker 1: it was reviewed by like older white male film critics
Speaker 1: incredibly weird. The Rotten Tomatoes, Uh, you know gap between
Speaker 1: audience and critic. Um is telling it. I loved it.
Speaker 1: What's your history, Caitlin? I had not seen this before,
Speaker 1: and I'm madam myself that it took me so long
Speaker 1: to see it, because, I mean, heist movies are right
Speaker 1: up my alley. Female driven heist movies are even more
Speaker 1: up my alley, so a few of them exist. Um,
Speaker 1: So again, I'm bummed I slept on this for so long,
Speaker 1: but I'm glad I've finally seen it because this movie rules,
Speaker 1: and it makes such important commentary and just does a
Speaker 1: lot of really cool stuff. So yeah, I'm excited to
Speaker 1: talk about it. So should we just dive into the
Speaker 1: recap and go from there? A? Yeah, let's do it,
Speaker 1: all right. So we meet Frankie Vivica a fox Um.
Speaker 1: She works at a bank that gets robbed by an
Speaker 1: acquaintance of hers. This robbery turns into a violent, bloody
Speaker 1: shootout because she knew the robber. She gets fired um,
Speaker 1: and she is suspected of collusion by the police. The
Speaker 1: main person there is Detective Strode played by John C. McGinley.
Speaker 1: Thinks that she isn't I supposed to know who he was?
Speaker 1: He was scrub. Yeah, but he was. He's in on
Speaker 1: like a lot of these like cop movies too, if
Speaker 1: you like look back at the nineties, He's in a
Speaker 1: lot of them. He's got resting cop face he does.
Speaker 1: The first thing I saw him in was Office Space.
Speaker 1: He plays one of the bobs, and that's what I
Speaker 1: know him most from. Well, I don't. I don't like him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: his character. I have a whole spiel on like the
Speaker 1: friendly white male cop trope in media. Oh yeah, absolutely
Speaker 1: hate it. It's so it feels like out of place
Speaker 1: in this movie too. It was right, like why it
Speaker 1: didn't It doesn't make sense. Also because his partner as
Speaker 1: a black woman, and she does nothing and says not.
Speaker 1: I kept waiting for I was watching it with my boyfriend.
Speaker 1: I'm like, any second now, we're going to get some
Speaker 1: information about her character, and it just never comes. It
Speaker 1: never came. The same way I was waiting for um
Speaker 1: Cleo's girlfriend to speak aloud the entire movie. I'm like,
Speaker 1: she's going to speak in this She never says a word.
Speaker 1: I don't think. It almost starts to feel like the
Speaker 1: movie is playing a joke on you because they cut
Speaker 1: to her so much, and I don't think we ever
Speaker 1: see her say a word anyway, but yeah, the cop
Speaker 1: is the way that the tone of the movie treats
Speaker 1: the cop is like this feels like studio note. And
Speaker 1: then I'm getting very ahead of myself. But the other detective,
Speaker 1: Detective Waller. I kept thinking the movie was gonna end
Speaker 1: with like the because I hadn't seen it before. I
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, here's what's going to happen. They're gonna
Speaker 1: rob the one last bank. Detective Waller is going to
Speaker 1: show up and be like and like maybe catch them
Speaker 1: or something, but she's going to be like, you know what,
Speaker 1: you go on ahead, I'll just pretend like I didn't
Speaker 1: see you. And then she lets them go because like
Speaker 1: she's like, I get it, but that doesn't sort of
Speaker 1: kind of no, Yeah, Johnston McGinley gets that, gets that note.
Speaker 1: He's the one that like, yeah, he it's it's so strange,
Speaker 1: like what what is even the point of her being
Speaker 1: in it at all? Because I mean, the reallyst like
Speaker 1: I don't know, like I've watched you know, a bunch
Speaker 1: of black movies from the nineties from this time, and
Speaker 1: a lot of them talk about how black cops are
Speaker 1: complicit in enforcing white supremacy. We see this in Boys
Speaker 1: in the Hood as well, like especially in Boys in
Speaker 1: the Hood, and so it's weird that this movie doesn't
Speaker 1: seem to question her, except for the scene at the
Speaker 1: very beginning when Vivica like looks at her and like
Speaker 1: says something to I don't remember what she says, but
Speaker 1: you didn't even offer me a drink of water or
Speaker 1: something like. Yeah, And it's just like, and that's the
Speaker 1: only part that we get. But I mean, other movies
Speaker 1: were way more I guess thoughtful about that, but I mean,
Speaker 1: that's like that just goes into my one big issue
Speaker 1: with the movie is that it likes cops too much,
Speaker 1: and while also making cops look really incompetent. So it
Speaker 1: just doesn't make sense to like them so much when
Speaker 1: they're so bad at their jobs. Cannot make sense of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the vibe is very much like, well, they're they're bad
Speaker 1: at their job and their murderers, but you gotta love them.
Speaker 1: And it's like, we don't gotta love them, don't. I
Speaker 1: don't know what to make of it. And it does
Speaker 1: seem like that scene with Detective Waller and um and
Speaker 1: with Vivica a Fox at the very beginning, it seems
Speaker 1: like that is setting up something that will come back,
Speaker 1: but it's never This particular dynamic is never set off.
Speaker 1: I wonder they never set it off, but yeah, I wonder,
Speaker 1: right Like it sounds like from their research I did
Speaker 1: on the production, it seems like this movie went through many,
Speaker 1: many drafts. So for where when stuff like that kind
Speaker 1: of flagged for me of like, this feels like a
Speaker 1: something that we kind of lost in the middle. I'm
Speaker 1: just assuming it's that, but I don't know. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: there's more to discuss there. But um, so we we
Speaker 1: meet three friends who we later we soon discover our
Speaker 1: Frankie's friends, but it's Stony Jada Pickett Smith, Cleo is
Speaker 1: Queen Latifa, and to Sean is Kimberly Elise and Um.
Speaker 1: They worked together as janitors at an upscale hotel. They
Speaker 1: are all struggling financially. Stoney's younger brother Stevie played by
Speaker 1: chas Lamar Shepherd, reveals that he's unable to go to
Speaker 1: college after all because he didn't get a scholarship, and
Speaker 1: they were all hoping that he would be able to
Speaker 1: go to college and get out of this cycle of poverty,
Speaker 1: so that's kind of a big devastation for Stoney, especially
Speaker 1: because she helped raise them after their parents died. And
Speaker 1: then to Sean has a young child she can't afford
Speaker 1: to pay for the babysitter um. And then Cleo's steaks
Speaker 1: are perhaps a little lower than everyone else in that
Speaker 1: she seems to mostly just want to fix up her
Speaker 1: car um, but those are kind of the what's at
Speaker 1: stake from a financial situation for these characters. Cleo thinks
Speaker 1: that they should rob a bank because the I who
Speaker 1: robbed Frankie's bank at the beginning made off with like dollars.
Speaker 1: No one else thinks it's a good idea, yet then
Speaker 1: we see a scene with this creepy car salesman who
Speaker 1: wants Stony to come work for him, and he wants
Speaker 1: other stuff from her, two mainly sexual favors. She needs
Speaker 1: an advance, but he'll only give it to her in
Speaker 1: exchange for sex, and she's desperate, so she has sex
Speaker 1: with him, only to find out that her brother lied
Speaker 1: and didn't get into U c l A at all.
Speaker 1: And then shortly after that he is shot and killed
Speaker 1: by police because they mistake him for being one of
Speaker 1: the bank robbers from the beginning of the movie and
Speaker 1: that I mean, that scene is devastating and it is
Speaker 1: fucking horrible. And then at the end of the scene,
Speaker 1: again like the the movie seems to kind of let
Speaker 1: the cop off a little bit in where he's just like,
Speaker 1: oh no, oh no, oh darn, we messed up. I
Speaker 1: shouldn't have done that. You're like, why why? Yeah. Then
Speaker 1: they revisit the idea of robbing the bank and they
Speaker 1: figure that with Frankie's knowledge of banks, they think that
Speaker 1: they can pull it off without anybody getting hurt. So
Speaker 1: they decide to do it. They start scoping out this big,
Speaker 1: fancy bank where Stony meets Keith Blair Underwood's character Um,
Speaker 1: who works in like upper management at his bank. Keith
Speaker 1: has this like tiny mustache. The mustache is not big,
Speaker 1: it's quite small. It's so cute it is. I was
Speaker 1: not at first. I was not sure if I was
Speaker 1: going to get on board with Keith, but then I
Speaker 1: ended up getting on board with Keith. He's a little
Speaker 1: touch and go for me. Blair Underwood, it's hot, but
Speaker 1: I don't know. There's that one scene where he like
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, Jada, your outfit is weird, and then
Speaker 1: he makes her change into a different outfit for like
Speaker 1: the bank gala they're going to. She's wearing like this
Speaker 1: very like colorful, like you know, kind of like festive
Speaker 1: maxi dress, and and he has her change into like
Speaker 1: a little black mini dress, right, which is not I liked.
Speaker 1: I first of all, he was wrong the first time.
Speaker 1: The first dress was lovely and I liked it. And
Speaker 1: then there's like that scene at the I don't know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I I like, I generally like it, but
Speaker 1: it was kind of like her big night out is
Speaker 1: to this like evil Bankers gala. You're like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: want better for her than this this evil banker gala.
Speaker 1: But everyone's having fun. And then you like see his
Speaker 1: the like inside of his house in different scenes and
Speaker 1: he's like, well, it's not much, but it's home. And
Speaker 1: then it's like this mansion. You're like, what are you talking? Like, sir, sir,
Speaker 1: like he went to Harvard and school the school school,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I had to like rewind and go back.
Speaker 1: I was like, if that is what it's actually called,
Speaker 1: I need to like that. Like this they called journalism
Speaker 1: school j school, But there's no like there's not like
Speaker 1: there's no B school or like C school. I went
Speaker 1: to F school film school. Thank you so much. That's
Speaker 1: a really funny way for like writers to tell on themselves.
Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, they probably call it B school. Let's
Speaker 1: just put it down. What a funny. Yeah, that was
Speaker 1: a great And she doesn't flinch either. She's like, oh, yes,
Speaker 1: B school. No, she needs clarification. She's like, what the
Speaker 1: funk are you talking about? And he's like, oh, sabby
Speaker 1: business school. And then he says he works on Wall
Speaker 1: Street and we're like, anyway, So he hits on Stony
Speaker 1: and eventually asks her out while they're scoping out this
Speaker 1: bank that they intend to rob. Meanwhile, to Sean has
Speaker 1: to bring her baby to work since she can't afford
Speaker 1: a babysitter, and the baby accidentally consumes some cleaning products
Speaker 1: and they have to rush him to the hospital and
Speaker 1: then Child Protective Services take her baby away. So now
Speaker 1: everyone is even more highly motivated to go through with
Speaker 1: robbing a bank, so they start to make preparations. Cleo
Speaker 1: procures some guns and a getaway car some guns from
Speaker 1: Dr dre Yes a great cameo the playing the guy
Speaker 1: of guy that owes favor right and has a bunch
Speaker 1: of guns. That's such a fun heist trope to me
Speaker 1: because I feel like that that is like a character
Speaker 1: that appears in some form and every highest movie of like,
Speaker 1: well how will we get item, It's like, oh, guy
Speaker 1: owes me favor and then we see guy who else favor.
Speaker 1: So then Frankie Stony Cleo into Sean go to rob
Speaker 1: a bank wearing disguises, and a couple of them feel
Speaker 1: uneasy about it, but Frankie sets it off. Hey, that's
Speaker 1: the name of the movie. I love how much they
Speaker 1: say that the name of the movie, and well someone
Speaker 1: had to set it off. Yeah, Well, because when when
Speaker 1: Cleo is getting the gun, she's like, no, I don't
Speaker 1: want I want something that can set it off. And
Speaker 1: I'm like yes, like yeah right, I one of the
Speaker 1: many things. I mean, it's like it's hard not to
Speaker 1: want to talk about every part of the movie as
Speaker 1: we mentioned it, but there's so like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I I love that. I feel like a lesser movie
Speaker 1: would kind of employ some like they all know how
Speaker 1: to set it off right away, but they get like
Speaker 1: steadily better at robbing banks as the movie goes on,
Speaker 1: where like the aesthetic and the weapons for the first
Speaker 1: robbery are very different from the third, and you're like, okay,
Speaker 1: we're all learning here. This is cool for sure. The
Speaker 1: way the first robbery was shot was really cool because
Speaker 1: it was all one shot, just kind of like moving
Speaker 1: around the room. There's no edits, and it happens in
Speaker 1: exactly sixty seconds because you see the shot starts with
Speaker 1: a clock and then ends with the same clock and
Speaker 1: it's one minute later, and you're just like, oh, this
Speaker 1: is good filmmaking. The blocking in this scene, the acting
Speaker 1: in this scene music. I loved it. So anyway, So
Speaker 1: they arrive at this first bank and they go through
Speaker 1: with it except for two Sean, who runs away um
Speaker 1: because she chickens out and it's a success, and then
Speaker 1: get away with twelve dollars. Meanwhile, though, the same cops
Speaker 1: from earlier, Detective Strode and Detective Waller are starting to
Speaker 1: suspect who might have done this robbery, and they think
Speaker 1: that Frankie was involved. I have another huge issue with
Speaker 1: that plot point, but we'll get there. Then Stony goes
Speaker 1: out with Keith. Meanwhile, Cleo and Frankie want to rob
Speaker 1: another bank because they need more money to be able
Speaker 1: to kind of fully leave their old lives behind. Stony
Speaker 1: doesn't want to. She and Cleo get in a huge fight,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't last long. They make up, and then
Speaker 1: there's this fun Godfather inspired I had seen this scene before,
Speaker 1: but I didn't know the context of when it came
Speaker 1: in the movie, so I went in thinking said It
Speaker 1: Off was way sillier. Oh, then it ends up being
Speaker 1: but that that scene is so awesome. It's so good. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's a great scene. And also I hadn't listened to them.
Speaker 1: I don't know how much Destiny's Child you listen to
Speaker 1: listen to, but their album The Writings on the Wall
Speaker 1: starts with a scene just like that with Missy Elliott
Speaker 1: talking to Destiny's Child like the Godfather, and I had
Speaker 1: grown up hearing that. And then I watched Set it
Speaker 1: Off after that, and I was like, oh, okay, wait,
Speaker 1: I never would have connected that. I know exactly. Wow, Yes,
Speaker 1: Set it Off was first, so I think that it
Speaker 1: came from that. They're just big fans. Oh I love that.
Speaker 1: That's great. So basically the group is like, Okay, we
Speaker 1: just need to do one more big robbery and then
Speaker 1: we'll be set it off. You're like, but what about
Speaker 1: the rule of threes? I know, all right, they don't
Speaker 1: they haven't thought about that yet. Yeah, they don't know
Speaker 1: what the screenwriting rules at this moment. So they go
Speaker 1: to the second bank, and this robbery is kind of
Speaker 1: touch and go. It's lasting a little too long there
Speaker 1: there getaway gets a little botched, but they managed to
Speaker 1: get away with the second one. Isn't the second one
Speaker 1: where Queen Latifa drives through the bank correct which it
Speaker 1: gets a little botched, just drives the car into the bank.
Speaker 1: I love that scene. Apparently there's like a display of
Speaker 1: like Teddy Bears the truck runs into because all of
Speaker 1: a sudden there's a shot of like Teddy Bears exploding
Speaker 1: across the front of the car. No, no, it's perfect,
Speaker 1: it's great. And also t t really steps up in
Speaker 1: this robbery because she is like someone almost someone has
Speaker 1: a gun and someone is going to stop them. But
Speaker 1: then she's able to which I really liked. I liked
Speaker 1: that it was like she got scared the first time,
Speaker 1: and then the second time she was like instrumental to
Speaker 1: set setting it off, setting it off. Yeah, she's pretending
Speaker 1: to be one of the hostages basically, and then she's like,
Speaker 1: oh no, you don't when the guy with the gun
Speaker 1: tries to stop things. For this robbery, they managed to
Speaker 1: get away with over two hundred and sixty thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: Their plan is that they're going to keep working at
Speaker 1: their janitor jobs for the next few days while they
Speaker 1: get t t. S Son back, and then they're going
Speaker 1: to leave town. So they stow the money in the
Speaker 1: hotel where they work at and go about their normal business.
Speaker 1: Then we have a Stony and Keith Steamy X scene,
Speaker 1: a lot of tight shots, a lot of oil, good soundtrack,
Speaker 1: a lot of butts, and then the other show up
Speaker 1: at work and learn that Luther, their boss, has stolen
Speaker 1: their cash that they stowed away, so they go after him.
Speaker 1: They find him, I think it's t t ends up
Speaker 1: shooting and killing him. They can't find the money, but
Speaker 1: there is a woman there who Luther was having sex
Speaker 1: with and she witnessed the whole thing. So then Cleo
Speaker 1: gets picked up by Detective Strode and put into a lineup,
Speaker 1: but she had taken this witness's I D and been
Speaker 1: like this is for insurance, Like if you identify me,
Speaker 1: I will kill you. As the implication. So Cleo does
Speaker 1: not get identified and she gets released. But with the
Speaker 1: money gone, they realized that they have to rob another bank,
Speaker 1: so they decided to go for the big one, the
Speaker 1: rule of threes bank, and Jada is like not keeps
Speaker 1: bank and then and they're like, yes, bang bank. Sorry.
Speaker 1: Now the problem is that the detectives are already there
Speaker 1: showing security camera footage to the like upper management staff
Speaker 1: at the bank, and Keith recognizes Stoney from the footage
Speaker 1: and he's like, no, not my girlfriend Stony. So the
Speaker 1: women show up to rob the bank, but because the
Speaker 1: like cops are already like right there, there's this big shootout.
Speaker 1: T T gets shot, they get away, and then two
Speaker 1: Sean dies in Stoney's arms, another very tragic scene, and
Speaker 1: then they have to escape from the kind of that situation,
Speaker 1: and then Cleo kind of martyrs herself to save Stony
Speaker 1: and Frankie. Stony gets on a bus, but Frankie gets
Speaker 1: caught and killed, but Stone makes it to Mexico and
Speaker 1: she's got her bag of money and she's the only
Speaker 1: one to make it out, and then the film ends
Speaker 1: with her kind of driving along the coast. It's a
Speaker 1: perfect ending shot. Yeah. Yeah, so that is the story.
Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break and then we'll come right
Speaker 1: back to discuss where where should we start the discussion.
Speaker 1: There's there's a lot of stuff here. This is one
Speaker 1: of the best casts. Like, it's such a great cast
Speaker 1: because I mean when I I've been you know, looking
Speaker 1: back and researching um black film for like the past
Speaker 1: thirty years and just kind of look specifically looking at
Speaker 1: a lot of the talent that really didn't get to
Speaker 1: be in that many movies because there just weren't roles
Speaker 1: for them, and this cast is just so it's so perfect,
Speaker 1: like just all of my favorite so many of my
Speaker 1: favorite under used actress is like specifically, I think that
Speaker 1: Vivid A. Fox wasn't underused actress for a while, especially
Speaker 1: like until like leading up to like kill Bill, but
Speaker 1: even like since kill Bill, she's been really underused. Kimberly Alice,
Speaker 1: who I Love, Love Love and who was She started
Speaker 1: the very first Tyler Perry movie, Diary of a Mad
Speaker 1: Black Woman, and she was she was amazing in it,
Speaker 1: and and she I mean like and you know, Tyler
Speaker 1: Perry got huge after that. I mean he was already
Speaker 1: huge in terms of like um theater and stuff. But
Speaker 1: I hope ever we got huge in film and she didn't,
Speaker 1: And I hate that because she's great and Jada Pinkett
Speaker 1: Smith one of the most underused actresses of our time.
Speaker 1: We were just talking about that in The Bad Mom's
Speaker 1: episode where like she plays one of the side characters
Speaker 1: who's like one of the mean yeah, and it's like,
Speaker 1: what you have her? Why didn't you use her at all?
Speaker 1: Like her and Magic Mike Double x L. Like Jada
Speaker 1: pink like that was that was beautiful. I was like,
Speaker 1: we need to use her like she's used in Magic
Speaker 1: Mike Double x L and everyone she and she really like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I had to look up. I was like,
Speaker 1: how old is she in this movie? She's like twenty
Speaker 1: five if that, and she's just like on another love
Speaker 1: I mean, she's her performance in this movie is fucking incredible.
Speaker 1: It's so good everyone she's she's amazing and uh. And
Speaker 1: I also love that she got a love scene because
Speaker 1: I love I love sexy Jada Pinkett I love well.
Speaker 1: I guess that that's like a place we could go
Speaker 1: to because we see we see um Stony have sex
Speaker 1: twice in this movie and something that I appreciated that
Speaker 1: the movie does is the way that those two sex
Speaker 1: scenes are framed couldn't be more different, and because they're
Speaker 1: told from her perspective, which I feel like it's something
Speaker 1: we lose sometimes in movies where even if the protagonist
Speaker 1: is a woman, you still somehow end up seeing the
Speaker 1: sex scenes from the male perspective for no reason, presumably,
Speaker 1: But in this we see her at the beginning. I
Speaker 1: forget what the name of the card dealership guy is,
Speaker 1: but the Nate I think Nate. Okay, so so he
Speaker 1: I mean he coerces her basically into having sex so
Speaker 1: that she can do this down payment for U. C.
Speaker 1: L A. And you see her face during that scene.
Speaker 1: It doesn't focus or linger on him. There's no like
Speaker 1: you know, over the time, like you are there with her,
Speaker 1: not with him. And then in the sex scene with Keith,
Speaker 1: it's like the best. It's a corny nineties there's a candle.
Speaker 1: There's got to be a candle. It's just as if
Speaker 1: there's an open flame, just there's oil everywhere. You got
Speaker 1: very slippery. It's a very slippery sex scene. And like
Speaker 1: Blair Underwood, like because Blair Underwood is so much always
Speaker 1: like he's always playing like very like they I mean,
Speaker 1: Cleo calls him, calls his character this in the movie
Speaker 1: a buppy, a black yuppie, Like he's always playing that character,
Speaker 1: and that character is usually very like rigid and kind
Speaker 1: of like sexless, even though he's so handsome. Like even
Speaker 1: I remember watching him on Sex in the City and
Speaker 1: being like, imagine what this would be like if he
Speaker 1: wasn't surrounded by white people in the show, Like what
Speaker 1: if there was a Sex in the City where I
Speaker 1: just got to see his ass all the time, and
Speaker 1: then I wouldn't also have to think about him being
Speaker 1: fetishized by like white women who just like love the
Speaker 1: way that he talks or you know. But yeah, so
Speaker 1: seeing him get a sex scene is really nice. There
Speaker 1: there really aren't that many Blair Underwood sex scenes, which
Speaker 1: is a crime. It's a great So I really enjoyed
Speaker 1: the sex scene. It's so like it's very of its time,
Speaker 1: but it's good and it's like and and contrasted with
Speaker 1: the other sex scene feels exactly right in the opposite direction.
Speaker 1: And usually you get those overly objectifying or like exploitative
Speaker 1: sex scenes from male directors, which this movie does have.
Speaker 1: So shout out to director f. Gary Gray, you know,
Speaker 1: legendary black director for you know, treating those sex scenes
Speaker 1: responsibly and being respectful of the characters, and just the
Speaker 1: entire narrative to me, is by and large very respectful
Speaker 1: of its subjects, these four women. It tells their story,
Speaker 1: it dives into their characters. We understand who they are,
Speaker 1: they're so distinct from each other, we understand their motivations
Speaker 1: because that does not always happen when you have a
Speaker 1: male director directing women. Well. F. Gary Gray is also like,
Speaker 1: he's this is I've I've seen I think more f.
Speaker 1: Gary Gray movies than not. I had not seen this
Speaker 1: one all the way through. But he also if you
Speaker 1: want to feel horrible about yourself, he's seven when this
Speaker 1: movie comes out, So there's that. And his his big
Speaker 1: movie before this was Friday with Ice Cube and Chris Tucker,
Speaker 1: which comes out the year before this. So he's just
Speaker 1: like firing on all cylinders, especially at this point in
Speaker 1: his career. But don't sleep on the fate of the
Speaker 1: Furious Um. Now, I want to talk about some other
Speaker 1: people behind the scenes. So the film was written by
Speaker 1: two people. Takashi Buford, who is a black man and
Speaker 1: Kate Lanier, who we were Yeah, Caitlyn and I were talking. Uh,
Speaker 1: we had a long discussion about Caitlyn near earlier today
Speaker 1: because she's uh, she's kind, she's all over the place.
Speaker 1: So from I research, here is what I've gathered. She
Speaker 1: wrote to the screenplay for such films as Beauty Shop,
Speaker 1: What's Love Got to Do With It? Glitter, a TV
Speaker 1: movie about TLC, among a few other projects. So these
Speaker 1: are mostly movies that are about black women. Now, as
Speaker 1: far as her background, she is a white woman, yes,
Speaker 1: so or so? Okay, Well, we watched I had the
Speaker 1: same thing where I'm like, I'm like, true, she's a
Speaker 1: white woman, but when you search her face, you're you
Speaker 1: get the same kind of like unclear iage. Okay. We
Speaker 1: were having this discussion today because we were also we're like, okay,
Speaker 1: we want to be sure that this. So Caitlin found
Speaker 1: an hour long interview and bravely watched, watched the whole thing.
Speaker 1: And Kate Linear is white. But don't ask her if
Speaker 1: she's white because she'll say, well, I'm half Jewish my
Speaker 1: dad's side of the family. There's all kinds of stuff
Speaker 1: going on there, and it's like you're okay white, and
Speaker 1: then but she then she later says she doesn't know
Speaker 1: what she is and um, and then she acknowledges that
Speaker 1: she looks white because it's because she's white, that's why
Speaker 1: she looks and then okay, here's the here is the
Speaker 1: absolute worst part of this interview. She goes on to
Speaker 1: say that because she has hung out with a lot
Speaker 1: of black people and that she gravitates towards them, she
Speaker 1: feels eligible to tell black stories, and by tell she
Speaker 1: means profits off from she It's the only like extended
Speaker 1: interview of her that exists. She's being interviewed by a
Speaker 1: black woman who keeps looking to the camera Jim Halpert
Speaker 1: style every time she starts talking about how she's white,
Speaker 1: but is she white? And it's like, no, she is white.
Speaker 1: It's a mess. She negs the interviewer, and then she
Speaker 1: pivots at the end of this clip to be like, well,
Speaker 1: Hollywood is agist, and I'm like, don't change the subject.
Speaker 1: Do you think that Rachel DoLS All has this interview
Speaker 1: and that like like she like downloaded it to her
Speaker 1: computer and watches it all the time. I was getting
Speaker 1: some Rachel DoLS All vibes from this screenwriter. She yeah, so,
Speaker 1: and then at the end she's like, I'm all forgetting
Speaker 1: more black writers into the room, But why are people
Speaker 1: mean to be because I'm old and you're like, this
Speaker 1: sentence has been a journey, so wonderful, So glad that
Speaker 1: you watched that. I would not have watched that, So
Speaker 1: thank you for your service. Um well, that brings me
Speaker 1: to an excerpt from a book entitled Shaping the Future
Speaker 1: of African American Film, Color Coded Economics and the Story
Speaker 1: Behind the Numbers by Monica White and Donu. I might
Speaker 1: have mispronounced that quote. Patriarch capitalism presents several hazards for
Speaker 1: Black cinematic storytelling. Representing Black males as primarily unsupervised except
Speaker 1: by law enforcement and correctional institutions does not reflect the
Speaker 1: historical survival of Black families and African American communities that
Speaker 1: have depended upon single mothers. Convention maintains that the black
Speaker 1: man can fix what has been broken in the black community.
Speaker 1: This assertion becomes particularly significant considering the race and gender
Speaker 1: of the screenwriters and director of Set It Off. Director
Speaker 1: f Gary Gray and screenwriter Takashi Buford are African American males.
Speaker 1: The fact that co writer Kate Lanier is a white
Speaker 1: female who has penned scripts for several films about black
Speaker 1: women is also noteworth the What's Love Got to Do
Speaker 1: with It? Glitter Beauty Shop. Since none of the filmmakers
Speaker 1: on this project are Black women, their only intervention is
Speaker 1: through performance, much like Black Americans in early mainstream theater
Speaker 1: and film. Um The writer goes on to talk about
Speaker 1: how Black women have been underrepresented, misrepresented, and over sexualized
Speaker 1: even in movies made by black filmmakers, again particularly black men,
Speaker 1: and then she says, quote Set It Off exposes the
Speaker 1: racial and gender disparities in Hollywood's ulmer scale, as well
Speaker 1: as the reverberating effects of those disparities both on and
Speaker 1: off screen. Employing Black people and women, either for behind
Speaker 1: the scenes roles or as actors, does not guarantee a
Speaker 1: fair or honest representation of Black culture or women. So basically,
Speaker 1: she's saying, you know, with this movie, there are black
Speaker 1: people behind the scenes, there is a woman behind scenes,
Speaker 1: but maybe Set it Off, a movie about Black women
Speaker 1: and their struggle should have been written and directed by
Speaker 1: black women. Now I would say that this film does
Speaker 1: a pretty good job. Like I really enjoyed this and
Speaker 1: I think that there's a lot of great things to
Speaker 1: take away from it. But like we were already hinting
Speaker 1: at earlier, like the treatment of like the white male
Speaker 1: cop is like a friendly ally to the characters, is
Speaker 1: you know, a little and the treatment of his partner
Speaker 1: is kind of like a subordinate who doesn't really seem
Speaker 1: to have any opinions. And I mean the only other
Speaker 1: place where I think that it really comes up is
Speaker 1: with Cleo and her girlfriend, which is it's a really
Speaker 1: interesting thing because like I think that Queen Latifa is
Speaker 1: really hot, and I can get very clouded by that,
Speaker 1: but but like there is no denying that, Like the
Speaker 1: way that she is written is kind of like this
Speaker 1: idea of like, well, you know, it's got to be
Speaker 1: like this, I mean, and not to say that, I mean,
Speaker 1: she's basically playing stud and she's very good at it.
Speaker 1: You know, love the corners of the style, love everything.
Speaker 1: But it's but it is interesting that her girlfriend never talks,
Speaker 1: and I think that is that could be just like
Speaker 1: no one in the script really having the imagination of like, Okay,
Speaker 1: the stud gets to talk, but what about the fem
Speaker 1: does the fem get to speak in The answer is no,
Speaker 1: she doesn't to a point where it's like it seems
Speaker 1: like they're making a point by not letting her speak.
Speaker 1: The other characters even comment on it. They're like, she's
Speaker 1: not going to say anything like that first the scene
Speaker 1: when when Ursula is first introduced and they like say hi, Ursula,
Speaker 1: and like she just doesn't respond to like she's not
Speaker 1: going to say anything. Like they comment on the fact
Speaker 1: that she doesn't talk, and it's like this could have
Speaker 1: been fixed. It just seems like there's another movie where
Speaker 1: like are they're just like scenes like all put together
Speaker 1: were Ursula's talking and she's like having all these opinions
Speaker 1: and it's just like in some other like side movie,
Speaker 1: or I would love it if there was like a
Speaker 1: cutout scene where she was just like, hey, I don't
Speaker 1: think that this is such a good idea, right He
Speaker 1: was like, I know exactly how to rob a bank.
Speaker 1: Let me give you some dudes, and don't like there's
Speaker 1: so many ways she could have where's the Ursula spinoff?
Speaker 1: It's so bizarre that they don't let La talk. I
Speaker 1: have a little more context for the scripting process. So
Speaker 1: just last month, Vulture didn't interview with Vivid A Fox
Speaker 1: about this movie, and so there's like a ton of
Speaker 1: really fun like behind the scenes facts. Um. But one
Speaker 1: thing that how I found out that this movie went
Speaker 1: through a number of drafts was Vulture asked what rang
Speaker 1: false about the original script? Vic Fox response quote, Jada
Speaker 1: was a crackhead. There were so many stereotypes of black people.
Speaker 1: F Gary Gray was just like, nope, nope, her brother
Speaker 1: was a crack dealer. In the first draft, it didn't
Speaker 1: make any sense. He was like, no, Jade is going
Speaker 1: to be working hard for him to go to school,
Speaker 1: and her motivation was him saying I don't want to
Speaker 1: go to school, and the director came up with what
Speaker 1: she had to do to get him the money to
Speaker 1: go to school unquote. So it's and it does sound
Speaker 1: like based on this interview, while obviously that there were
Speaker 1: two main writers of this movie, that f Gary Gray
Speaker 1: encouraged all four lead actors to ad lib, to add
Speaker 1: in stuff, um where they felt like it made sense.
Speaker 1: There was like I guess that a lot of like
Speaker 1: the famous lines in this movie were ad libbed by
Speaker 1: by the actors. Yeah, Vivica A. Fox is so she
Speaker 1: also says that she's athletic seven different times in this interview. Um,
Speaker 1: she said seven times for some reason her so much.
Speaker 1: I guess the next thing I want to touch on is,
Speaker 1: so this is a movie about like black female friendship,
Speaker 1: which we don't see very often at all. I mean,
Speaker 1: Jordaniel were talking about how like between this and Girls Trip,
Speaker 1: that's kind of it. I mean even waiting to their friends.
Speaker 1: But we talked about this on on that episode, where
Speaker 1: like we only see them on screen together for maybe
Speaker 1: like twenty minutes in the entire movie, and the rest
Speaker 1: of the movie is like those women off with the
Speaker 1: various romantic pursuits that they're you know with. So this
Speaker 1: is such a rare story to see on screen, at
Speaker 1: least in a cinematic mainstream way. Um. And I like,
Speaker 1: as is always the case, the movie was super successful
Speaker 1: and it was like a hit, and it made its
Speaker 1: budget back four times because as like, these are stories
Speaker 1: that people want to see, there just weren't any studios
Speaker 1: making them or making them to be released to a
Speaker 1: wide audience, was it. In that same interview with Vivica A.
Speaker 1: Fox where they were there was mention of this film
Speaker 1: being pitched too I think it was a new line
Speaker 1: cinema and being rejected like three times because they didn't
Speaker 1: anticipate like anyone would want to see a film about
Speaker 1: a bunch of black women. They were just like, who
Speaker 1: wants to see that? And it's like, well, a lot
Speaker 1: of people because this movie was a box office success.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean I feel like a lot of
Speaker 1: those assumptions are like I listened to a lot of
Speaker 1: you must remember this, and there were a lot of
Speaker 1: assumptions that Hollywood would like try to anticipate the way
Speaker 1: that people would react to things and be like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, the public wouldn't like this, they wouldn't see this,
Speaker 1: and that those were a lot of the arguments that
Speaker 1: they made historically when it came to like black Story reason.
Speaker 1: I mean, those arguments are are the exact same and
Speaker 1: they haven't really changed that much now. And it's I mean,
Speaker 1: this movie came out the year after Waiting to Exhale.
Speaker 1: So there's a really good Clerkesha Kent piece and I'm
Speaker 1: just like Clerkesha Kent nerd so I to read this
Speaker 1: piece that she wrote. But she she basically makes the
Speaker 1: argument at one point in her piece about set it
Speaker 1: off that um Set It Off and Waiting to Exhale
Speaker 1: are often compared to one another. UM, but she also
Speaker 1: makes the argument that that is like she's like, I
Speaker 1: think that it's because there's four black women on the posters,
Speaker 1: because outside of that, you also in this movie see
Speaker 1: poor black women. You see like they're they're all working
Speaker 1: class people, and you know, in in Waiting to Exhale,
Speaker 1: it's you're you're in a different class, You're in Arizona. Like,
Speaker 1: it's it's quite different. Yeah, there's really i mean, genre wise,
Speaker 1: they're so different, like there's really nothing except that they're
Speaker 1: both about four black women. That it's well, it comes
Speaker 1: like with with black movies in general, especially movies about
Speaker 1: black women, they just tend to be lumped together as
Speaker 1: this this like giant genre that's like black, this like
Speaker 1: very indirect, like not really descriptive genre. And it's I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's very frustrating because though because people just be like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: I'll talk about like, for example, my like a thing,
Speaker 1: my kind of like pet thing is that I love
Speaker 1: seeing black women's sexuality on screen, which is like even
Speaker 1: in my opinion, like they don't really get to explore
Speaker 1: like as in like a way of like objectifying, yes,
Speaker 1: but in terms of like black women enjoying sex, you know,
Speaker 1: like having orgasms, having a good time, I'm very rarely
Speaker 1: see that. And when I start to talk about that,
Speaker 1: will people be like, oh, well, there's this movie. In
Speaker 1: this movie, in this movie, it's like, yeah, there's a
Speaker 1: black woman in it, and yes there's a love story.
Speaker 1: But does but does she come like does does she retorgasm?
Speaker 1: And it's no, she doesn't. So then that's not what
Speaker 1: I'm talking about. It's the yeah that there needs to
Speaker 1: be a media test for that. That's gonna be your
Speaker 1: your test, that's going to be the podcast for you,
Speaker 1: Jordan's in thirty years. And I think that the reason
Speaker 1: people like in the in a kind of whether they
Speaker 1: really have it or not, bad faith way lump all
Speaker 1: these movies together is because they're just are not enough
Speaker 1: of them that are like released in the mainstream, which
Speaker 1: is an issue at all of its own. It's frustrating. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's take another quick break and then we'll come right
Speaker 1: back for a more discussion. And we're back ready to
Speaker 1: set it off again. I wanted to talk about how
Speaker 1: this how useless cops are in this movie, and I
Speaker 1: realized that, like it's not just that, like it's not
Speaker 1: just like the stuff that we see in the movie.
Speaker 1: It's also just like the context of what they're doing.
Speaker 1: They're putting all of this manpower and all of this
Speaker 1: money and all of these guns and like helicopters and
Speaker 1: riot here and all this stuff to get four women
Speaker 1: who just need some money. Like I was just I like,
Speaker 1: especially like now with the protests and everything me just
Speaker 1: watching this, I'm just like, look at look at all
Speaker 1: of this time and energy and ship that they're spending
Speaker 1: because four women just want some money. Like why like
Speaker 1: you know with all this all this like funding that
Speaker 1: you you could just give these four black women some
Speaker 1: money and then like send them on their way, like
Speaker 1: we don't need to actually do this. And like the
Speaker 1: end with like especially with the chase and the man
Speaker 1: hunt and everything, it's so stupid. It's so stupid to
Speaker 1: look at like I'm just like just everybody else could
Speaker 1: be doing something else. And then like there's a newscaster
Speaker 1: and it's like everybody's watching this, and it's like it's
Speaker 1: like this is not new this is not like o
Speaker 1: J and Lebronco. These are just like four women who
Speaker 1: like need to pay their bills. And the ending drives
Speaker 1: me insane because like it's John C. McGinley, and um,
Speaker 1: he's talking to Vivica A. Fox's character, and he's just like,
Speaker 1: I mean even even the point in the bank anytime
Speaker 1: that he's just like, we don't need any more violence,
Speaker 1: you know, put the gun down. We don't need anymore
Speaker 1: No more people need to die. And so he's like
Speaker 1: talking to Vivica A. Fox and like he just he
Speaker 1: says that, and it's just like, why are you saying
Speaker 1: that when you know that like immediately she is going
Speaker 1: to die. Like it's just so weird to me because
Speaker 1: why would she trust him? Because when he's in the
Speaker 1: bank and he's like, you know, we don't have to
Speaker 1: do any more violence whatever. Everybody's ready to surrender, and
Speaker 1: then they just killed two Sean like just a cop
Speaker 1: just like shows up like after he's already like calmed
Speaker 1: everyone down and just like shoots because they're just trained
Speaker 1: to shoot. And then and then it becomes a shootout,
Speaker 1: becomes a shootout because cops are fucking stupid. And then
Speaker 1: he for some reason, like he's like so sad about it.
Speaker 1: And so like upset, but then you still like Spear
Speaker 1: had this entire fucking man hunt. If you're so sad,
Speaker 1: then why do you keep bringing all these people with guns?
Speaker 1: Like it doesn't especially because he I feel like the
Speaker 1: movie takes multiple opportunities to distance him from what he
Speaker 1: is in charge of and is definitely doing because he's
Speaker 1: in charge of it. Where like after he started this case,
Speaker 1: he started the investigation, the chief who is a black man,
Speaker 1: told him not to, and he does it anyway, and
Speaker 1: the whole yeah, he's like, she's colluding. She vificult a
Speaker 1: fox knew the initial bank robbers, so she's in on it.
Speaker 1: And it's like he's making a bad faith assumption, and
Speaker 1: then the movie has him turn out to be right,
Speaker 1: which I also don't like. I don't like the story
Speaker 1: logic there of like he is making a bad faith assumption,
Speaker 1: like flat out, but then they're like, but you know
Speaker 1: she did rob the bank. It's like it's oh yeah,
Speaker 1: that That's another thing that makes me really mad about
Speaker 1: this movie, and it reminded me of It actually reminded
Speaker 1: me of Crash. I don't know if you've seen two
Speaker 1: thousand fours Crash not the good one, the David Cronenberg
Speaker 1: one in the nineties where people are turned on by
Speaker 1: car crashes. Azing film beautiful. If you ever want to
Speaker 1: talk about that one on this podcast, I will come
Speaker 1: back to talk about the car crash Fuck, the Horning
Speaker 1: car Crash. No, I haven't seen it. It's a movie
Speaker 1: about get turned on by car crashes. It's fucking awesome.
Speaker 1: I also read the book, A very morning book. Why
Speaker 1: wasn't that my idea? But the bad crash, the two
Speaker 1: thou four crash um, I don't know. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you guys have seen it, but there's a scene
Speaker 1: where it's like ludicrous and Ren's tate are just like
Speaker 1: talking about police profiling and how everyone just assumes that
Speaker 1: they're robbers and that they're gang bangers and everybody has
Speaker 1: the worst assumptions and then they immediately commit a rob
Speaker 1: someone like it's it's so frush because he is absolutely
Speaker 1: profiling in that scene, but the story would have you believe, like,
Speaker 1: but was he wrong? And you're like, that is not.
Speaker 1: I don't even think the message that this movie is
Speaker 1: trying to say, like what is going on the movie.
Speaker 1: The movie doesn't question whether this cop is wrong or not.
Speaker 1: The movie really just questions like oh no, like why
Speaker 1: is the system like this? And it's like, well, we're
Speaker 1: looking at the system. It's John c McGinley. It's just
Speaker 1: doing bad things and then feeling bad about it for
Speaker 1: a second and then going back to do the things again.
Speaker 1: And it feels intentional that the most heinous crimes committed
Speaker 1: by cops in this movie are committed by faceless like
Speaker 1: we don't know them. It's by random like guy in
Speaker 1: background um is always the it's it's a cop that
Speaker 1: we don't know, which feels like another intentional choice of
Speaker 1: like almost like I don't God only knows who involved
Speaker 1: in the production at whatever level made the decision of like, well,
Speaker 1: we can't have the cop that we know be the murderer.
Speaker 1: It has to just be like background cop number five.
Speaker 1: Otherwise that introduces, like, you know, questions that maybe this
Speaker 1: movie doesn't quite want to answer. It's so frustrating. And
Speaker 1: it's also the fact that we get that I thought
Speaker 1: that that exchange between Frankie and Detective Waller at the
Speaker 1: towards the beginning of the movie was setting up something
Speaker 1: that could have been like a really interesting, effective like
Speaker 1: conversation and then it's just like, Nope, we're just gonna
Speaker 1: give you more John C McGinley than you ever would
Speaker 1: have asked. Yeah, nobody, nobody needs that much of him.
Speaker 1: I've seen every episode of Scrubs. That was enough. And
Speaker 1: it's also like, now that I've seen him in all
Speaker 1: these older cop movies, when I watched Scrubs, now he
Speaker 1: just looks like a cop. He looks like a doctor cop.
Speaker 1: He looks like an undercover cop working at a hospital. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: there's the Detective Waller character I really cannot make sense of.
Speaker 1: She's played by Ella Joyce. There's a scene where Queen
Speaker 1: Lativa's character is in the lineup and they're trying to
Speaker 1: get the wit is who is having sex with Luke Luther,
Speaker 1: to identify Cleo, and she doesn't do it because she
Speaker 1: knows Cleo is going to come after her if she
Speaker 1: does so. She says, I don't the perpetrator is not
Speaker 1: in this lineup. Meanwhile, Detective Waller is like she's right there,
Speaker 1: like she's like she's so mad, and it's just like
Speaker 1: I don't like it would be like once again in
Speaker 1: Boys in the Hood, it's made like very specifically clear
Speaker 1: that like the black cop character does not like other
Speaker 1: black people, and that's the point, Like that's the critique,
Speaker 1: Like to become a cop, you would have to not
Speaker 1: like other black people. And so like I almost just
Speaker 1: kind of wish that the movie like leaned into this
Speaker 1: and was just like she just doesn't like other black women,
Speaker 1: because at least that would be interesting and that would
Speaker 1: give her something to do, and it would also like
Speaker 1: explain why she's subordinate to this guy who's just like,
Speaker 1: for all she knows up until like everything gets ramped up,
Speaker 1: who's just like harassing these women, just like writing him
Speaker 1: around for no just wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars
Speaker 1: of test fare money to just harass these women. And
Speaker 1: and it's the way he talks to her is also
Speaker 1: like so just arrogant and annoying. He's such a he'said
Speaker 1: know it, Like there's what does that scene where they're
Speaker 1: both in the office together and he like puts Hirez
Speaker 1: photos of the four main actors and it's like, what
Speaker 1: did I tell you? And I'm like, oh, this is
Speaker 1: the moment where she's gonna like, you know, push back
Speaker 1: or something's gonna happen. And then they're like nope, next scene,
Speaker 1: you're no. And I don't. I don't like the way
Speaker 1: that he talks to all the four main characters either.
Speaker 1: He's so condescending. He's just like, yeah, I know your
Speaker 1: life is hard, and like all you have to do
Speaker 1: is put down the gun and like I know your
Speaker 1: whole life story because I'm a FED and I'm like
Speaker 1: spying on you, but I'm pretending to be a therapist.
Speaker 1: It's like, no, you're a FED, You're a fucking You're
Speaker 1: not a therapist. Shut up. No, And therapists don't stalk you.
Speaker 1: And they're like I know about your brother and your
Speaker 1: mother and your grandma, and it's like no, Like if
Speaker 1: my therapist knew that much about me, i'd be like,
Speaker 1: what's going on. Therapists famously do not do these things.
Speaker 1: It's so it's so frustrating and and I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess this might be like an accidentally effective thing where
Speaker 1: he's he says at multiple times that he understands what
Speaker 1: they're going through, but he obviously doesn't. He would not
Speaker 1: be in this job, Like I don't know where that
Speaker 1: was headed, which is kind of wild because it's like,
Speaker 1: what is happening with the four main characters seems so
Speaker 1: focused and like so like the movie knows exactly what
Speaker 1: they're doing with the four main characters for the most part,
Speaker 1: and then the cop the cop B plot, I feel like, like,
Speaker 1: unless you're going to make commentary on what they're doing doing,
Speaker 1: why is it there? Like why why? Yeah? Yeah, they don't.
Speaker 1: They don't discuss anything. They don't like follow leads. They
Speaker 1: decide that these are the women they're stuck without. The
Speaker 1: entire time, there's no investigation at all. No, he just
Speaker 1: does what his boss tells him not to do, profiles
Speaker 1: and then murders people. And then at the end he's like,
Speaker 1: all right, Jada, you got me, you can go to Mexico.
Speaker 1: And I think that we're supposed to be Like that
Speaker 1: was nice of him, Like I was trying to discern
Speaker 1: how the movie was trying to Yeah, I think that
Speaker 1: we are supposed to. And I mean it's also just like, um,
Speaker 1: a bit of like Hollywood morality from that time. I
Speaker 1: you know, I love I love black cinema from that time.
Speaker 1: It's some of my favorite But there's also this sense
Speaker 1: of there's only one of us that's gonna get out
Speaker 1: of this, Like in any given movie. From that time,
Speaker 1: you get the feeling that only one person is really
Speaker 1: going to make it, and like I almost feel like
Speaker 1: Stony makes it just because she has scenes where she's
Speaker 1: just like, you know, don't you ever think about the future,
Speaker 1: don't you ever think about where you're going? And because
Speaker 1: she's the only one who thinks about the future, she's
Speaker 1: the one who lives, right, Okay. So one of the
Speaker 1: things that I thought was effective and really cool about
Speaker 1: this movie, and you know, still very timely and relevant today,
Speaker 1: is like just the idea of these characters doing what
Speaker 1: they do because they are trying to get out of
Speaker 1: this cycle of poverty and the cards are stacked against
Speaker 1: them because they're black women and they come from a
Speaker 1: low socioeconomic background, Opportunities are not open to them for
Speaker 1: any sort of upward socioeconomic mobility, you know, like every
Speaker 1: like they have to rob banks because they have no
Speaker 1: other choice. They're they're desperate. Just everything that's happened to
Speaker 1: them has lead them to this. And and I love
Speaker 1: the line that I who says that we're the four
Speaker 1: of them are finally all on board and they're like, okay,
Speaker 1: let's do this. They're like, yeah, let's steal from the
Speaker 1: system that is addicted to fucking us over Like that
Speaker 1: feels like the yes a thesis statement in the movie.
Speaker 1: For sure. It's when um, they're planning the first heist
Speaker 1: and t is like, I feel so bad we're stealing
Speaker 1: people's money. If we're stealing from a bank, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's other people's money. And then Cleo is like,
Speaker 1: no insurance will cover it, Like that's a ridiculous comment.
Speaker 1: And then Frankie says, we're just taking from the system
Speaker 1: that's sucking us anyway, and we're like, yes, like steal
Speaker 1: from that system like do it? Um, But yeah, there's
Speaker 1: this there's this kind of like motif I suppose where
Speaker 1: it starts with Keith, who again he works in like
Speaker 1: corporate bank management. Basically he loves banks, he loves money
Speaker 1: and he has a lot of it, and he is
Speaker 1: dating only who She says at one point like I'm
Speaker 1: borrowing pieces of your life, like you live this fancy life.
Speaker 1: This is not my life or background, like we come
Speaker 1: from their very different places basically, But he's like, you know,
Speaker 1: what's your five year plan? Like what's what do you plan?
Speaker 1: What a five year plan? Like? And she's such a
Speaker 1: middle class thing that like I just can't even fathom it,
Speaker 1: and she says, I don't know, I've like never I
Speaker 1: have no idea, and then she kind of after this
Speaker 1: conversation with Keith, she says, hey, Cleo, do you ever
Speaker 1: think about the future, Like what's your five year plan?
Speaker 1: And Cleo responds, I don't know. I don't have a
Speaker 1: five year plan. I'm just trying to get through today.
Speaker 1: And it's like, yes, like people trapped in poverty don't
Speaker 1: have the luxury of planning ahead or you know, like
Speaker 1: too setting goals for the future, Like that is a
Speaker 1: very middle class or upper class thing. I don't know
Speaker 1: how much Keith like I that. Keith definitely does like
Speaker 1: learn a lot from Stony and he is like he
Speaker 1: listens to her and he does take what she has
Speaker 1: to say in because the way that that scene about
Speaker 1: the five year plan ends is Stony starts talking about
Speaker 1: her brother and he's like, well, great, what's your brother's
Speaker 1: five year plan? And she's like he was murdered and
Speaker 1: Keith is like, right, like it just so I do
Speaker 1: I do appreciate that those conversations, you know, happened between them,
Speaker 1: and it's like two different class experiences entirely and but yeah,
Speaker 1: joining you're totally right. I didn't even connect the dots
Speaker 1: on that one where it's the person who survives is
Speaker 1: the one who was taking in that kind of five
Speaker 1: year plan morality upwardly mobile and all that. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I mean, like because when you have Cleo, like you
Speaker 1: know very early that Cleo is going to die simply
Speaker 1: because like in the wake of Reagan and everything like that,
Speaker 1: we see Leo. You know, as soon as she gets
Speaker 1: the money, she gets rims and she gets like she
Speaker 1: gets like hydraulics for her car, and it's just like,
Speaker 1: I know that based on the morality from that time,
Speaker 1: there's no way that she's going to live because she's
Speaker 1: got hydraulics for her car, like, and it's just I mean,
Speaker 1: that's that's the kind of morality that movies were working
Speaker 1: on at that time. So I mean, I hope that
Speaker 1: it's changed. I wouldn't really know, because there's not really
Speaker 1: any recent films to compare this too, not that I
Speaker 1: can think of. I mean, I guess, I guess you
Speaker 1: I guess maybe hustlers, hustlers get like there's similar themes
Speaker 1: going on. Yeah, man, we gotta do Hustlings growing over
Speaker 1: the system. Wait, you haven't done Hustlers yet. We haven't
Speaker 1: done We have five million requests for Hustlckers and we
Speaker 1: haven't done it yet. Love Hustlers so much. But but
Speaker 1: one thing that I want to talk about that we
Speaker 1: didn't talk about is that they get high together in
Speaker 1: a scene, and it's my favorite scene in the movie.
Speaker 1: And I realized that, like, I can't think of a
Speaker 1: lot of movies where black women are just getting high together,
Speaker 1: which is weird because like that is what I do
Speaker 1: with my friends, We get high. Like it's just weird.
Speaker 1: It's all the scenes where they're together are so great,
Speaker 1: but that one, Yeah, that one is the best. And
Speaker 1: it seems like I would guess that there is like
Speaker 1: a fair amount of ad living in that scene as well,
Speaker 1: because it's just like so comfortable and so natural and
Speaker 1: so oh it's great. Yeah. I just want to see
Speaker 1: black women getting orgasms and getting high. I mean, those
Speaker 1: are two are my favorite things. Both do happen in
Speaker 1: this movie. I mean, I guess, But do we see
Speaker 1: Jay to come? I assume that she does. Maybe I shouldn't.
Speaker 1: I assume. I assume that she does too, but I mean,
Speaker 1: who knows, Like it might have just been like really
Speaker 1: hot and heavy, and then like right before she hits it,
Speaker 1: he's just like, all right, I'm done, I'm tired. Would
Speaker 1: you like a pop tart? Having pop tarts in like that?
Speaker 1: That's like his one like working class treat, heard of
Speaker 1: these pop tarts? A be school there, but yeah there.
Speaker 1: Their friendship is so it. I like how often it's
Speaker 1: put on display. It's a major plot point at different points,
Speaker 1: and I also love that they are. I feel like
Speaker 1: female friendships across the board are often kind of written
Speaker 1: in this very like no one ever disagrees with each
Speaker 1: other way, or if they do disagree with each other,
Speaker 1: it's it's this big end of second act kind of disagreement.
Speaker 1: But like the four main characters are constantly like they
Speaker 1: bigger with each other a lot. There are certain like
Speaker 1: flare ups in their friendship, like after the first robbery
Speaker 1: where t T runs away before the robbery and then
Speaker 1: I it's Frankie who is like, no, you don't get
Speaker 1: any money, you didn't participate in the robbery, and and
Speaker 1: then apologizes and it's like, okay, sorry that was sucked up.
Speaker 1: I should have said that obviously we all want you
Speaker 1: to get your son back, and like just having that
Speaker 1: like really strong friendship, but also just seeing in the
Speaker 1: way that like strong friendships are where it's like people
Speaker 1: fight with their best friends constantly. Yeah, I mean, And
Speaker 1: it goes to show just how well these characters are characterized,
Speaker 1: because it never feels not justified, like any argument or
Speaker 1: disagreement they have. You understand where each character is coming
Speaker 1: from because you know the character well enough to understand
Speaker 1: their motivations and everything that informs their opinions and all
Speaker 1: of that stuff. Can we go like just character to
Speaker 1: character and just quick runda, I mean with with t T.
Speaker 1: I love, I love t T so much, I hate
Speaker 1: so like I I do appreciate that the movie like
Speaker 1: makes it explicitly clear like why they are put in
Speaker 1: these extremely unfair situations where it's once Luther puts t
Speaker 1: T on the books and she's not getting money under
Speaker 1: the table anymore so much taxes are taken out that
Speaker 1: she can't afford childcare, which directly leads to her having
Speaker 1: her son taken away, which is fucking awful. Like there,
Speaker 1: and and it makes it clear that this is like
Speaker 1: not a fair situation for her to have to be in,
Speaker 1: and then everyone surrounding the situation except for her friends,
Speaker 1: are being deeply antagonistic and unhelpful about it. Do we
Speaker 1: we never find out what happens to her baby either, No,
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I wish they had. I guess.
Speaker 1: I don't know if there would have been like an
Speaker 1: organic way in the narrative to like address what happened
Speaker 1: to that baby, but we just kind of don't revisit
Speaker 1: that at all. Yeah. That made me feel bad. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was like I worry about that, that poor kid,
Speaker 1: such a cute kid. Yeah, and then like I mean
Speaker 1: you have to imagine that like there's never enough social
Speaker 1: workers in foster care and just that it's it's terrifying.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, and I mean there's also just you know
Speaker 1: the history of like child protective services being weaponized against
Speaker 1: black mothers, and mostly you know, it's black mothers losing
Speaker 1: their children because they have to work. Almost like services
Speaker 1: should be offered instead of instead of just you know,
Speaker 1: taking people's children away, yeah, and giving them to strangers. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I guess we Yeah, I did, we did. We don't
Speaker 1: find out what happens to her son, and there I
Speaker 1: mean her teaches death. I mean, everyone's death is devastating,
Speaker 1: but teaching death. And I mean just that scene, and
Speaker 1: that is like so beautifully acted by Jada pinkett Um
Speaker 1: when she's talking about the banana flambay as like teaches
Speaker 1: ye in her arms. It's just like it's got renting, heartbreaking.
Speaker 1: And then after that scene, this movie does it a
Speaker 1: couple of times. It never really bothers me, but there
Speaker 1: are a few abrupt tonal switches in this movie, and
Speaker 1: one of them comes right after t T's death, where
Speaker 1: I was like crying my eyes out on my couch,
Speaker 1: and then they got to keep the movie going, so
Speaker 1: then it's like do do do do do? And then
Speaker 1: it's like back to the chase and you're like, okay,
Speaker 1: I guess yeah, and the chase is still happening. I
Speaker 1: just but yeah. And then we have Cleo an out character.
Speaker 1: Yes it's a miracle in the in the nineties. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I again, I wish maybe her girlfriend had said one
Speaker 1: word or you know, she's not a part of the group,
Speaker 1: she's not one of the main characters. But it was
Speaker 1: a choice and a choice that I don't necessarily understand,
Speaker 1: and maybe that was just but like, there are jokes
Speaker 1: in this movie, but this isn't a comedy. There's comic
Speaker 1: relief now and then, but totally this is a pretty
Speaker 1: this is a serious film. So if there's like a
Speaker 1: running gag, like, wouldn't it be funny if like Ursula
Speaker 1: just never talks and like that was a running gag
Speaker 1: and like that the filmmakers decided to throw in there.
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, weird choice, weird movie to put a
Speaker 1: running gag like that in the in the story, but okay,
Speaker 1: but um, but in any case, yes, Cleo, I think
Speaker 1: Cleo is my favorite character of the four. I do
Speaker 1: like them all a lot, but like Queen Latifa's performance
Speaker 1: is just she knocks it out of the park and
Speaker 1: she's wonderful. I mean, Cleo is so is you know,
Speaker 1: she's very honest and you know, she's very funny, and
Speaker 1: she's and she's brave her her death which is very sad,
Speaker 1: but it's a very brave death. Yeah, she's she martyrs
Speaker 1: herself and she like lights a cigarette. She's just like
Speaker 1: I love that. That's so thumb and Louise just like
Speaker 1: let's go. Yeah it's and they referenced Thelma and Louise
Speaker 1: earlier in the movie to reference it in the movie,
Speaker 1: and this movie, by critics got compared to Thelma and
Speaker 1: Louise because critics just love in a car. Caitlin clearly there.
Speaker 1: Yeah her, I mean, her death is devastating, but she
Speaker 1: gets that kind of like yeah, that like cowboy moment
Speaker 1: at the end of like she's been put in this impossible,
Speaker 1: unfair situation. It's being broadcast on news because why and
Speaker 1: she still you know, in the way that she is
Speaker 1: able to take control of the situation all that she can,
Speaker 1: which like is it's great, it's great. You also see
Speaker 1: her and her girlfriend um kiss. You so rarely see
Speaker 1: even if there is a queer character in a movie,
Speaker 1: they often are not allowed to be seen kissing or
Speaker 1: embracing their their partner. And they were nuzzling. You see
Speaker 1: them kiss and it's like I found that surprising for
Speaker 1: a movie made in the mid nineties. Yeah, if it
Speaker 1: were me, I would have added a scene with them
Speaker 1: in bed together. But yes, it's very good. I was, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like it's it's you don't quite get the Blair
Speaker 1: Underwood treatment, but I would have appreciated it. That scene
Speaker 1: where Queen Latifa is like kissing up Ursula's leg. I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm interested, let's maybe like, let's not interrupt this,
Speaker 1: but is gonna sure, But yeah, I feel like the
Speaker 1: queer visibility in this movie is infinitely higher than you know,
Speaker 1: most of nine. Yeah, for sure. Frankie. I I think
Speaker 1: Frankie is like I mean we were talking earlier about
Speaker 1: how you know, like the movie really makes each woman's
Speaker 1: situation explicitly clear, which you almost never get in hist movies.
Speaker 1: It's usually a more vague like we would like money
Speaker 1: um kind of thing. But for this movie, Frankie is
Speaker 1: another like very interesting speci of a character because she
Speaker 1: is trying to also get out of the cycle of poverty.
Speaker 1: She is in the process of making that happen by
Speaker 1: working at a bank and then through no fault of
Speaker 1: her own, that's taken from her and she is knocked
Speaker 1: back down and is rightfully angry about it. That scene
Speaker 1: at the beginning that like vivic A Fox is just
Speaker 1: like fucking destroys. I was thinking of like Vivica Fox
Speaker 1: between this and kill Bell, like she really knows how
Speaker 1: to open a movie, Like she can really get a
Speaker 1: movie started. But like the scene with her and her
Speaker 1: bosses and the police where no one is coming to
Speaker 1: her defense. She's literally saying like, I don't even really
Speaker 1: know that guy. I just live near him, and they're
Speaker 1: just openly discriminating against her, and it's it's so painful
Speaker 1: to watch and if it, Yeah, they perceive her as
Speaker 1: being guilty by association just because of where she grew up,
Speaker 1: and she says like, I can't help who I know.
Speaker 1: This isn't a friend of mine, Like, it's just a
Speaker 1: guy she's seen around in her neighborhood. And like they're like, well,
Speaker 1: you're probably colluding. You're in your this is collusion and
Speaker 1: it doesn't sit well with us that you know this person,
Speaker 1: so you're fired. And I love that she kind of
Speaker 1: she's not her idea to rob the bank, but she
Speaker 1: sort of spearheads the plan of like, well, I know banks,
Speaker 1: like I know that you have to do like during
Speaker 1: a robbery, the tellers are going to do this, and
Speaker 1: they're going to do this with their right hand, in
Speaker 1: this with their left hand, so like we have to
Speaker 1: we know how to get around that, and that's how
Speaker 1: we're going to be successful at this, which unfortunately, by
Speaker 1: the end they are not, but like, but she gets
Speaker 1: that amazing line at the end where people are giving
Speaker 1: her ship about the procedure of the procedure of the
Speaker 1: procedure at the beginning, where she was just like, there
Speaker 1: was like a gun in my friend to my face,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry I didn't enact the procedure perfectly. And then
Speaker 1: she's fired. And then at the end she even though
Speaker 1: I'm just like, why does the cop not die at
Speaker 1: the end? Infuriating, but but she gets that line like
Speaker 1: what's the procedure at the end and gets to throw
Speaker 1: it back in his face, And man, I just wanted
Speaker 1: I just wanted him to just like burst into tears
Speaker 1: and just hit the ground after that, right, like just
Speaker 1: be he should just be like everyone, everyone go home.
Speaker 1: I'm a piece of ship. We I mean, it's like
Speaker 1: I don't even think he loses sleep that night, like
Speaker 1: he's just it's so fucking infuriating. But I am glad
Speaker 1: that Frankie got like got a last line and on it.
Speaker 1: But it's just it's it's so devastating and infuriating and
Speaker 1: and and vividate. A Fox is just like such a powerhouse,
Speaker 1: like it's so it's so good, like during that scene,
Speaker 1: he's like, no, everyone, stand down, fellow police, lower your weapons.
Speaker 1: I'm going to go talk to this woman. And it's
Speaker 1: like good cop. And it's uh, this again, this this
Speaker 1: like the trope of like the white male police officer
Speaker 1: who just wants to help you. He's like, help me,
Speaker 1: help you. We see the same thing in thelm in Louise.
Speaker 1: We see the same thing in National Treasure. Harvey Kitel
Speaker 1: plays both of those characters, and then among other films,
Speaker 1: Harvey plays good Cop a lot. Yes, so it's just
Speaker 1: this trope that is a part of the whole like copaganda,
Speaker 1: like just like procom mentality that is so prevalent in Hollywood.
Speaker 1: But I just I do not understand why that is
Speaker 1: in this movie, this movie that is about like the
Speaker 1: unfairness and injustice that is the cycle of poverty that
Speaker 1: so many black people are forced into and which is
Speaker 1: reinforced by police. And why I then bring in a
Speaker 1: cop character who is like that we're supposed to be
Speaker 1: endeared too and sympathetic to. Yeah, and it it's like
Speaker 1: the whole this whole character, like this whole stock character
Speaker 1: falls apart under a moment of scrutiny. But hasn't stopped
Speaker 1: anyone from writing. Yeah, okay. So then and then there's Stony. Yes, Stony,
Speaker 1: who is I mean, like the she seemed? I guess,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean I guess as close as
Speaker 1: you could get to him. I think that it's very
Speaker 1: much an ensemble movie, but Stony I feel like, probably
Speaker 1: gets the most screen time out of everybody. But she
Speaker 1: we we start off by seeing her advocating for her brother,
Speaker 1: trying to get him out of this cycle of poverty,
Speaker 1: and then he's subjected to police brutality. He's murdered. It.
Speaker 1: I thought it was so beautiful and like a really
Speaker 1: important thing to include, to watch her mourn him with
Speaker 1: her friends. It's a tough scene, but it feels like
Speaker 1: one that the audience really needs because it's like she's
Speaker 1: what five year plan, It's it's taken from her. And
Speaker 1: then immediately she has to get back to work and
Speaker 1: she has to like move forward with her life kind
Speaker 1: of whether she likes it or not. And and then
Speaker 1: and then and then there's Keith. And then there's Keith.
Speaker 1: I think, I mean, there are some things that Keith
Speaker 1: does and he he gets like he negs where one
Speaker 1: may maybe not want him to. He does hit on
Speaker 1: her in his place of work. He's not even doing
Speaker 1: his job right. He's like, I'm not even supposed to
Speaker 1: talk to customers, but you were just too hot for
Speaker 1: me to not talk to which is a classic guy
Speaker 1: that you don't end up in a relationship with mine,
Speaker 1: But what can you do? Um? But I originally because
Speaker 1: I feel like that we talk about this a lot
Speaker 1: of like is the romance story necessary to the to
Speaker 1: what's happening in the plot, And I think that this
Speaker 1: relationship is important and it's that has a place in
Speaker 1: the movie. I was prepared to not not think that,
Speaker 1: but ultimately I feel like it does. Yeah, I guess
Speaker 1: I can very easily envision a version of this movie
Speaker 1: where that storyline is removed and it not really affecting
Speaker 1: the whole plot in a way that I feel like
Speaker 1: there's something lacking, But the fact that it is there
Speaker 1: it also doesn't bother me. I guess I'm just kind
Speaker 1: of ambivalent. I mean, you know, I mentioned that I
Speaker 1: was watching this movie earlier on Twitter and somebody mentioned
Speaker 1: how they feel like the Blair Underwood characters should have
Speaker 1: been cut out, and I mean, he has more of
Speaker 1: a narrative purpose, like in terms of thematically, then he
Speaker 1: does really like a movie purpose. I mean, he represents
Speaker 1: the kind of life, like in a since, the kind
Speaker 1: of life that they could have if their circumstances had
Speaker 1: been different. Like he's basically just there for the contrast.
Speaker 1: So I mean like trying to I mean, I guess
Speaker 1: in a sense, the film was trying to, you know,
Speaker 1: make a different like that. You know, some Black people
Speaker 1: have different lives and it's easier for some and it's
Speaker 1: different for others. Like I mean, and that seems like
Speaker 1: a very basic thing. But I almost feel like maybe
Speaker 1: people would feel differently about him being in it if
Speaker 1: there was some real conflict between him and Stony about
Speaker 1: things like he's The thing about Keith is that he's
Speaker 1: once he learns like what he's supposed to learn about,
Speaker 1: like you know, working class black people are having a
Speaker 1: different experience, he learns it, and that's really it. And
Speaker 1: I mean it would have been maybe interesting if it
Speaker 1: took him longer to learn that lesson and there were
Speaker 1: like a few more you know, like arguments, in which
Speaker 1: case then the themes of the movie could like show
Speaker 1: with themselves in that argument. But think that that's why
Speaker 1: he's there. Yeah, right, But I agree that he his
Speaker 1: kind of background could have been used to a greater
Speaker 1: effect and function um in the narrative than it is.
Speaker 1: I feel like it it's it starts to head in
Speaker 1: that direction, but it doesn't quite get all the way there.
Speaker 1: There definitely could have been other Yeah, just more kind
Speaker 1: of just thematic or whatever it is that gets explored
Speaker 1: that they don't tap into as much as they could have. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree reading that, it's like it is this like
Speaker 1: outlet for a discussion about class to happen, And maybe
Speaker 1: it doesn't happen to the extent that it could or should,
Speaker 1: But I'm glad that it's there. Like there, I mean
Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff that's on. Is it their
Speaker 1: first date where he asks her what her five year
Speaker 1: plan is? If so, what are you doing? Truly? I
Speaker 1: would love to meet the man that does this, Like
Speaker 1: that's so confusing to me, Like if this would be
Speaker 1: a job interview, what do you I have never I
Speaker 1: don't think like met much less going on a date
Speaker 1: with a fancy banker. But if this is how they talk,
Speaker 1: my god. But but I mean in that conversation alone,
Speaker 1: I feel like, you get a lot of interesting conversations started.
Speaker 1: You have the five year plan, you have um Stoneys
Speaker 1: saying he's asking her like, do you feel free? And
Speaker 1: she's like, no, I feel very much caged. And he
Speaker 1: kind of tries to like cute see his way out
Speaker 1: of her saying that. But when he listens to her
Speaker 1: and I agree that there, you know it. Maybe there
Speaker 1: would be more productive discussion if if the script had
Speaker 1: his character pushed back a little more, because I feel
Speaker 1: like he represents kind of this like bootstraps mentality I
Speaker 1: guess of like you know, you work hard and you'll
Speaker 1: be successful and without taking into consideration all the forces
Speaker 1: of like if that were true, then Frankie wouldn't be
Speaker 1: in this situation because she literally worked at a bank
Speaker 1: and she had that those opportunities taken from her for
Speaker 1: no reason. And I don't know. Yeah, it definitely starts
Speaker 1: some interesting conversations. And we're pretty sure that he made
Speaker 1: Stoney come and we're glad for that as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and the fact that he doesn't really you know, in
Speaker 1: the end, when she just like drives away and she's
Speaker 1: just like in Mexico, like he's like smiling when he's
Speaker 1: off the phone. He's just like, yes, this is fine,
Speaker 1: Like I like, I like that he doesn't really do
Speaker 1: anything extra like try to make their last conversation bad
Speaker 1: or like ask her to come back, Like he's like, no,
Speaker 1: she's gone, yeah, which is like I mean the ending
Speaker 1: shot man like, maybe maybe it's a little corny, but
Speaker 1: I thought it was so beautiful. I thought it was great.
Speaker 1: And even the the montage at the end, You're like,
Speaker 1: this is very nineties, but I was reflecting on all
Speaker 1: the memories and all and crying. Yeah, very pure. I've
Speaker 1: heard so much in the last twenty minutes of this movie.
Speaker 1: It is just like everything happens. Um. I don't like that.
Speaker 1: It's like implied that the cop is like doing her
Speaker 1: this huge favor by allowing her to survive and have
Speaker 1: to start a life in a place where she knows
Speaker 1: nobody in order to survive. But I do I do
Speaker 1: like that she you know, I mean, she's just like
Speaker 1: so how long this movie takes place over the course
Speaker 1: of what like maybe a few weeks. It's like a
Speaker 1: Stony is a miracle, Like she has to take on
Speaker 1: everything at once and has to push forward, you know, regardless,
Speaker 1: and she's still, she's dealing with the grief of her
Speaker 1: father being murdered by police because he had the same
Speaker 1: haircut as the actual perpetrator of the robbery. She's dealing
Speaker 1: with being coerced into sex by this creep just so
Speaker 1: she can get money to pay for her brother's tuition.
Speaker 1: Like she's dealing with so much, and just the gravity
Speaker 1: of everything. I don't think we've mentioned yet, but in
Speaker 1: a lot of the it didn't hit for me until
Speaker 1: about halfway through the movie that, like, the historical context
Speaker 1: of this movie is also it takes place in l
Speaker 1: A two years after Rodney King or no sorry, four
Speaker 1: years after Rodney King, and two years after the Violent
Speaker 1: Crime Control Act from Clinton, So it's like, also, it
Speaker 1: feels very I don't I mean a lot of Usually
Speaker 1: when movies take place in l A, you're just like, Okay,
Speaker 1: they couldn't afford to shoot somewhere else. But in this movie,
Speaker 1: it is very intentional that it's happening in l A
Speaker 1: at this time, and it informs a lot of what's happening, Yeah,
Speaker 1: any any any stuff anything else? Uh, you guys wanted
Speaker 1: to hit on. Well, one less thing about Stoney Um.
Speaker 1: She cuts all her hair off at the end, probably
Speaker 1: mostly so that she will not be as easily recognizable
Speaker 1: by anyone who might be looking for her. UM. But
Speaker 1: she does become the baldest woman in charge by doing that. UM.
Speaker 1: I had one more. Okay, so I this is just
Speaker 1: a question for for the Zoom room. UM. There were murmurs,
Speaker 1: I guess last year of this movie being remade or sequeled,
Speaker 1: potentially with Ray in a production, possibly writing a role,
Speaker 1: And there were a lot of takes on Clarkesha Kent's piece.
Speaker 1: UM was one of them in Entertainment Weekly, arguing that
Speaker 1: this movie does not need to be remade. Um, it
Speaker 1: was made correctly the first time. But I guess I
Speaker 1: was just, I was just I don't know. Is is
Speaker 1: I sort of I don't, I don't know. I don't
Speaker 1: think it needs to be remade, but I think we
Speaker 1: should just have more movies with black women, Like Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't really see the point of this
Speaker 1: being remade. I just think that the yeah, there should
Speaker 1: be more yeah yeah, Especially just watching it right now
Speaker 1: in this moment, so much of the stories feels so
Speaker 1: incredibly relevant that it doesn't feel like there needs to
Speaker 1: be any kind of like update in spite of kit
Speaker 1: Lan here right, Yeah, what a bizarre person she is? Um?
Speaker 1: Does anyone have any other thoughts? That was all I had. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I just think people should watch it. I'm
Speaker 1: glad I finally did ye. Does it pass the Bechdel
Speaker 1: test of course? Yeah. They're talking about robbing banks, They're
Speaker 1: talking about their lives, they're talking about all manner of things,
Speaker 1: constantly everything. Um. And it also it passes many of
Speaker 1: the other tests, including the duverna A test, the Vito
Speaker 1: Russo test for sure. So as far as our Nipple scale,
Speaker 1: in which we examine the movie through an intersectional feminist lens,
Speaker 1: I want to give this probably like a four because
Speaker 1: it does so well to characterize these four main characters,
Speaker 1: show the nuances of their friendship, show the nuances of
Speaker 1: their situation, their desperation, the cycle of poverty that they're
Speaker 1: in that they're kind of helpless to get out of.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's a story about systemic racism
Speaker 1: and sexism holding these characters back and limiting their options,
Speaker 1: and for them the option becomes crime. You know, not
Speaker 1: because they're inherently criminals or bad people, or because they
Speaker 1: want to commit crime, but because they have no other choice. Again,
Speaker 1: as black women, the odds are stacked against them, and
Speaker 1: desperate times call for desperate measures, and unfortunately for these characters,
Speaker 1: the law catches up with them and several of them
Speaker 1: are killed, which is sadly reflective of many black people's lives,
Speaker 1: where they're severely punished for just trying to survive. And
Speaker 1: the systems in place, you know, systems being law enforcement,
Speaker 1: the workforce, economic structures, etcetera. These systems are incapable or
Speaker 1: unwilling to acknowledge or understand that the systems are designed
Speaker 1: to oppress different groups of people, such as black people,
Speaker 1: black women. And I think that this story really effectively
Speaker 1: tackles those themes and and that reality. Um. And you know,
Speaker 1: the fact that you have queer visibility on screen is great. Um,
Speaker 1: a queer black woman especially something that I've seen very
Speaker 1: little of in popular media and just media in general,
Speaker 1: especially from the nineties, So that was pretty remarkable for
Speaker 1: a mainstream studio movie. UM. I guess the main grape
Speaker 1: is the over sympathy that the movie extends to the
Speaker 1: friendly white cop who just wants to help. And it's
Speaker 1: like if like Jordane like you said, like, if that
Speaker 1: were true, if you wanted to help in any way,
Speaker 1: he would like defund himself and you know, gives gives
Speaker 1: his salary to the way. I mean he could he
Speaker 1: could have spent all that time investigating that he spent investigating,
Speaker 1: like making sure that these women were okay, right, which
Speaker 1: is what he claims to be doing the whole time,
Speaker 1: But he's not. So I'll give it four nipples and
Speaker 1: I'll give one to Stony Frankie Cleo and uh t
Speaker 1: t um, I will I'll go the same way I'll
Speaker 1: do for nipples, uh and Pebacking off what you've already said,
Speaker 1: I would also say I wish that there were more
Speaker 1: black women in high level creative roles on this movie
Speaker 1: and that the movie was benefited from, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: not hiring Kate Lanier Mrs I'm white, but am I
Speaker 1: um so I understand that it's I mean, we have
Speaker 1: like f Gary Gray, we who is like truly a legend,
Speaker 1: and like, we have a lot of wonderful people in
Speaker 1: creative roles. But there you know, this is a movie
Speaker 1: that is centered on black women and there should be
Speaker 1: um black women behind the camera as well. Also, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the weird cop thing, and also just the failure to
Speaker 1: characterize Detective Waller. Uh in any way, it's just a
Speaker 1: dumb decision, I thought. But the performances this movie are
Speaker 1: fucking incredible. The soundtrack I don't think we've brought up yet,
Speaker 1: but it's fucking incredible. And um yeah, required viewing for
Speaker 1: everybody for nipples one to um each of the four leads. Jordan,
Speaker 1: how about you? Um? Sure, yes, four nipples arousing? Sure, sure,
Speaker 1: I know you're probably tired. It's quite late where you
Speaker 1: are right now. Yeah, it is late, right. I was like,
Speaker 1: oh no, we've been recording for so long. Well, Jordan,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us in this discussion.
Speaker 1: Where can people follow your stuff? Follow your social media, etcetera.
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at j O U
Speaker 1: R d A y E N and also that on Instagram,
Speaker 1: and uh, you can find my rating everywhere. You know.
Speaker 1: I've written for like Vote, Gung Q and a V club,
Speaker 1: and I write for bitch Media a lot. That's a
Speaker 1: great website. Can't can't endorse bitch Media enough. So yeah,
Speaker 1: we've I think I think we've we've cited your work
Speaker 1: a number of times on this show before to the
Speaker 1: point where it's like, why has Darting not simply been
Speaker 1: on the show. Thank you so much for being here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and listen to Bad Romance podcast Oh yeah, please do
Speaker 1: listen to Bad Romance podcasts. It's good. You know it's good.
Speaker 1: Brone's good, it's good. Hell yeah. Um, you can follow us.
Speaker 1: It's on Twitter and Instagram. Um. We've got our Patreon
Speaker 1: ak Matron. It's five dollars a month and it gives
Speaker 1: you two bonus episodes every month, plus access to the
Speaker 1: entire back catalog. We've got our Tea Public Store, t
Speaker 1: public dot com, slash the Bectel Cast for all your
Speaker 1: merchandising needs. Thanks for listening and U We'll be back
Speaker 1: next week. By a