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Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start

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Speaker 1: changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hello and welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Bectel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante and

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Speaker 1: my name is Jamie Loftus, and you're listening to this

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Speaker 1: podcast right now. Did you know that it is about

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Speaker 1: the representation of women in film, examining that representation from

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Speaker 1: an intersectional feminist lens. I didn't know that. Oh good, wow.

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Speaker 1: But it's always a pleasure to be to be Well,

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Speaker 1: it's not we're we're together? What was that like? Corny? Quarantine?

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Speaker 1: Hashtag hashtag alone together. I'm like feeling mostly alone, but

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Speaker 1: it is nice to see. It's nice to see you. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know we're together in a sense. Sure, yes, digitally

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Speaker 1: digital I know I can now only get zoomed to

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Speaker 1: work on my phone and then sometimes my phone gets

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Speaker 1: really hot, so look forward to that. Um. Anyway, great

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Speaker 1: Betel cast. Um. We use the Bechtel test as a

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Speaker 1: jumping off point, and traditionally the Bechtel test determines whether

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Speaker 1: or not too named women speak to each other about

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Speaker 1: something other than a man. We are approaching it a

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Speaker 1: little differently moving forward, which is that due to people

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Speaker 1: of marginalized genders speak to each other about something other

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Speaker 1: than a man. And that is, you know, just a

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Speaker 1: way to broaden the test and make it a little

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Speaker 1: bit more inclusive. I don't think Alison Bechdel would disagree. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think she Would's who made the test? Oh yeah, yes, sorry,

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Speaker 1: I forgot to manage that. I wonder about that sometimes

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Speaker 1: because Alison Bechdel is so awesome, But then do you

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Speaker 1: ever wonder like because she wrote it in a single

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Speaker 1: comic and then she's like, and that that is my letters.

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Speaker 1: It's like if you said something like smart offhand and

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Speaker 1: then someone was still talking to you about there was

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Speaker 1: a podcast about it thirty years later. Anyways, It's kind

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Speaker 1: of That'll be like if um, in thirty years from

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Speaker 1: now someone has a podcast called cat Facts with Caitlin

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Speaker 1: and I'll be like, that's the thing you took away

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Speaker 1: from my whole my body of work. You're like, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's a well and good, but there's just there was

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Speaker 1: there was more there there was That's on us. I'm

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Speaker 1: so excited for today's episode. Yes, we have a guest

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Speaker 1: who are super excited about as well, all the way

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Speaker 1: from Brooklyn, New York. She's a comedian, a writer, and

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Speaker 1: co host of Bad Romance podcast. It's Jordan's Searles. Hello, welcome,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being here. You are? You have? What

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Speaker 1: mar Mango, Margarita? Hell? Yes, what a good edition to

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Speaker 1: the show. So we're covering set it off the nine film. Jordan,

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Speaker 1: what is your relationship your history with this movie? Um,

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Speaker 1: this is just one of the movies that I grew

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Speaker 1: up with. I don't even remember the first time that

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Speaker 1: I watched it. I've watched it a million times since

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Speaker 1: I was born in ninety two. And you know, so

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Speaker 1: I feel like this this came out in and the

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Speaker 1: moment that it hit cable, I was watching it all

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Speaker 1: the time and it would play on B E T

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Speaker 1: and Um, I've always liked it, but it's only recently

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Speaker 1: that I've started to appreciate it in a different light,

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Speaker 1: just because, like I think it was around the time

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Speaker 1: like after Girls Trip, where people were talking about, oh,

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Speaker 1: when was the last time that a bunch of women

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Speaker 1: were in a movie together? And it did really well

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Speaker 1: and the only other times that I could think of

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Speaker 1: was waiting to exhale and set off, and I couldn't

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Speaker 1: think of anything before that where it was just like

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Speaker 1: more than one black woman, you know on the poster, right.

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Speaker 1: So I was thinking about it a lot, and then

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Speaker 1: I recently rewatched it and then bought it. So now

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Speaker 1: I own it and i'm and I am very happy

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Speaker 1: about that. And also since like I'm queer, I appreciate

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Speaker 1: Queen Latifa's character way more than I did when I

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Speaker 1: was a kid and I did not know that I

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Speaker 1: was queer. Can't wait to talk about a bit more. Um, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: what's your history with it? Uh? This is one of

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Speaker 1: the many movies that I have seen in parts on

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Speaker 1: cable TV, but it never sat down and watched it

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Speaker 1: all the way through, beginning to end. I've seen many

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Speaker 1: of the iconic scenes, but I had never taken in

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Speaker 1: the full movie. And holy sh it, this movie is

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Speaker 1: so great, Like I I, there's so much going on researching.

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Speaker 1: The production of the movie was very interesting as well,

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Speaker 1: like this movie has everything going for it, and expectedly

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Speaker 1: it was reviewed by like older white male film critics

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Speaker 1: incredibly weird. The Rotten Tomatoes, Uh, you know gap between

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Speaker 1: audience and critic. Um is telling it. I loved it.

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Speaker 1: What's your history, Caitlin? I had not seen this before,

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Speaker 1: and I'm madam myself that it took me so long

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Speaker 1: to see it, because, I mean, heist movies are right

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Speaker 1: up my alley. Female driven heist movies are even more

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Speaker 1: up my alley, so a few of them exist. Um,

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Speaker 1: So again, I'm bummed I slept on this for so long,

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Speaker 1: but I'm glad I've finally seen it because this movie rules,

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Speaker 1: and it makes such important commentary and just does a

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Speaker 1: lot of really cool stuff. So yeah, I'm excited to

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Speaker 1: talk about it. So should we just dive into the

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Speaker 1: recap and go from there? A? Yeah, let's do it,

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Speaker 1: all right. So we meet Frankie Vivica a fox Um.

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Speaker 1: She works at a bank that gets robbed by an

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Speaker 1: acquaintance of hers. This robbery turns into a violent, bloody

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Speaker 1: shootout because she knew the robber. She gets fired um,

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Speaker 1: and she is suspected of collusion by the police. The

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Speaker 1: main person there is Detective Strode played by John C. McGinley.

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Speaker 1: Thinks that she isn't I supposed to know who he was?

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Speaker 1: He was scrub. Yeah, but he was. He's in on

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Speaker 1: like a lot of these like cop movies too, if

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Speaker 1: you like look back at the nineties, He's in a

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Speaker 1: lot of them. He's got resting cop face he does.

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Speaker 1: The first thing I saw him in was Office Space.

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Speaker 1: He plays one of the bobs, and that's what I

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Speaker 1: know him most from. Well, I don't. I don't like him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: his character. I have a whole spiel on like the

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Speaker 1: friendly white male cop trope in media. Oh yeah, absolutely

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Speaker 1: hate it. It's so it feels like out of place

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Speaker 1: in this movie too. It was right, like why it

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Speaker 1: didn't It doesn't make sense. Also because his partner as

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Speaker 1: a black woman, and she does nothing and says not.

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Speaker 1: I kept waiting for I was watching it with my boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, any second now, we're going to get some

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Speaker 1: information about her character, and it just never comes. It

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Speaker 1: never came. The same way I was waiting for um

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Speaker 1: Cleo's girlfriend to speak aloud the entire movie. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: she's going to speak in this She never says a word.

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Speaker 1: I don't think. It almost starts to feel like the

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Speaker 1: movie is playing a joke on you because they cut

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Speaker 1: to her so much, and I don't think we ever

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Speaker 1: see her say a word anyway, but yeah, the cop

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Speaker 1: is the way that the tone of the movie treats

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Speaker 1: the cop is like this feels like studio note. And

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Speaker 1: then I'm getting very ahead of myself. But the other detective,

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Speaker 1: Detective Waller. I kept thinking the movie was gonna end

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Speaker 1: with like the because I hadn't seen it before. I

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Speaker 1: was like, Okay, here's what's going to happen. They're gonna

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Speaker 1: rob the one last bank. Detective Waller is going to

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Speaker 1: show up and be like and like maybe catch them

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Speaker 1: or something, but she's going to be like, you know what,

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Speaker 1: you go on ahead, I'll just pretend like I didn't

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Speaker 1: see you. And then she lets them go because like

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Speaker 1: she's like, I get it, but that doesn't sort of

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Speaker 1: kind of no, Yeah, Johnston McGinley gets that, gets that note.

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Speaker 1: He's the one that like, yeah, he it's it's so strange,

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Speaker 1: like what what is even the point of her being

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Speaker 1: in it at all? Because I mean, the reallyst like

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Speaker 1: I don't know, like I've watched you know, a bunch

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Speaker 1: of black movies from the nineties from this time, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of them talk about how black cops are

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Speaker 1: complicit in enforcing white supremacy. We see this in Boys

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Speaker 1: in the Hood as well, like especially in Boys in

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Speaker 1: the Hood, and so it's weird that this movie doesn't

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Speaker 1: seem to question her, except for the scene at the

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Speaker 1: very beginning when Vivica like looks at her and like

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Speaker 1: says something to I don't remember what she says, but

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Speaker 1: you didn't even offer me a drink of water or

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Speaker 1: something like. Yeah, And it's just like, and that's the

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Speaker 1: only part that we get. But I mean, other movies

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Speaker 1: were way more I guess thoughtful about that, but I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's like that just goes into my one big issue

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Speaker 1: with the movie is that it likes cops too much,

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Speaker 1: and while also making cops look really incompetent. So it

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Speaker 1: just doesn't make sense to like them so much when

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Speaker 1: they're so bad at their jobs. Cannot make sense of it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the vibe is very much like, well, they're they're bad

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Speaker 1: at their job and their murderers, but you gotta love them.

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Speaker 1: And it's like, we don't gotta love them, don't. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what to make of it. And it does

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Speaker 1: seem like that scene with Detective Waller and um and

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Speaker 1: with Vivica a Fox at the very beginning, it seems

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Speaker 1: like that is setting up something that will come back,

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Speaker 1: but it's never This particular dynamic is never set off.

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Speaker 1: I wonder they never set it off, but yeah, I wonder,

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Speaker 1: right Like it sounds like from their research I did

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Speaker 1: on the production, it seems like this movie went through many,

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Speaker 1: many drafts. So for where when stuff like that kind

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Speaker 1: of flagged for me of like, this feels like a

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Speaker 1: something that we kind of lost in the middle. I'm

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Speaker 1: just assuming it's that, but I don't know. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: there's more to discuss there. But um, so we we

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Speaker 1: meet three friends who we later we soon discover our

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Speaker 1: Frankie's friends, but it's Stony Jada Pickett Smith, Cleo is

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Speaker 1: Queen Latifa, and to Sean is Kimberly Elise and Um.

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Speaker 1: They worked together as janitors at an upscale hotel. They

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Speaker 1: are all struggling financially. Stoney's younger brother Stevie played by

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Speaker 1: chas Lamar Shepherd, reveals that he's unable to go to

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Speaker 1: college after all because he didn't get a scholarship, and

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Speaker 1: they were all hoping that he would be able to

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Speaker 1: go to college and get out of this cycle of poverty,

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Speaker 1: so that's kind of a big devastation for Stoney, especially

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Speaker 1: because she helped raise them after their parents died. And

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Speaker 1: then to Sean has a young child she can't afford

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Speaker 1: to pay for the babysitter um. And then Cleo's steaks

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Speaker 1: are perhaps a little lower than everyone else in that

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Speaker 1: she seems to mostly just want to fix up her

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Speaker 1: car um, but those are kind of the what's at

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Speaker 1: stake from a financial situation for these characters. Cleo thinks

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Speaker 1: that they should rob a bank because the I who

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Speaker 1: robbed Frankie's bank at the beginning made off with like dollars.

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Speaker 1: No one else thinks it's a good idea, yet then

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Speaker 1: we see a scene with this creepy car salesman who

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Speaker 1: wants Stony to come work for him, and he wants

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Speaker 1: other stuff from her, two mainly sexual favors. She needs

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Speaker 1: an advance, but he'll only give it to her in

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Speaker 1: exchange for sex, and she's desperate, so she has sex

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Speaker 1: with him, only to find out that her brother lied

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Speaker 1: and didn't get into U c l A at all.

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Speaker 1: And then shortly after that he is shot and killed

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Speaker 1: by police because they mistake him for being one of

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Speaker 1: the bank robbers from the beginning of the movie and

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Speaker 1: that I mean, that scene is devastating and it is

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Speaker 1: fucking horrible. And then at the end of the scene,

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Speaker 1: again like the the movie seems to kind of let

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Speaker 1: the cop off a little bit in where he's just like,

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Speaker 1: oh no, oh no, oh darn, we messed up. I

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Speaker 1: shouldn't have done that. You're like, why why? Yeah. Then

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Speaker 1: they revisit the idea of robbing the bank and they

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Speaker 1: figure that with Frankie's knowledge of banks, they think that

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Speaker 1: they can pull it off without anybody getting hurt. So

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Speaker 1: they decide to do it. They start scoping out this big,

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Speaker 1: fancy bank where Stony meets Keith Blair Underwood's character Um,

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Speaker 1: who works in like upper management at his bank. Keith

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Speaker 1: has this like tiny mustache. The mustache is not big,

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Speaker 1: it's quite small. It's so cute it is. I was

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Speaker 1: not at first. I was not sure if I was

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Speaker 1: going to get on board with Keith, but then I

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Speaker 1: ended up getting on board with Keith. He's a little

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Speaker 1: touch and go for me. Blair Underwood, it's hot, but

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Speaker 1: I don't know. There's that one scene where he like

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Speaker 1: he's like, oh, Jada, your outfit is weird, and then

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Speaker 1: he makes her change into a different outfit for like

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Speaker 1: the bank gala they're going to. She's wearing like this

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Speaker 1: very like colorful, like you know, kind of like festive

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Speaker 1: maxi dress, and and he has her change into like

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Speaker 1: a little black mini dress, right, which is not I liked.

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Speaker 1: I first of all, he was wrong the first time.

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Speaker 1: The first dress was lovely and I liked it. And

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Speaker 1: then there's like that scene at the I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I I like, I generally like it, but

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Speaker 1: it was kind of like her big night out is

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Speaker 1: to this like evil Bankers gala. You're like, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: want better for her than this this evil banker gala.

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Speaker 1: But everyone's having fun. And then you like see his

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Speaker 1: the like inside of his house in different scenes and

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Speaker 1: he's like, well, it's not much, but it's home. And

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Speaker 1: then it's like this mansion. You're like, what are you talking? Like, sir, sir,

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Speaker 1: like he went to Harvard and school the school school,

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I had to like rewind and go back.

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Speaker 1: I was like, if that is what it's actually called,

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Speaker 1: I need to like that. Like this they called journalism

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Speaker 1: school j school, But there's no like there's not like

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Speaker 1: there's no B school or like C school. I went

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Speaker 1: to F school film school. Thank you so much. That's

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Speaker 1: a really funny way for like writers to tell on themselves.

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Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, they probably call it B school. Let's

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Speaker 1: just put it down. What a funny. Yeah, that was

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Speaker 1: a great And she doesn't flinch either. She's like, oh, yes,

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Speaker 1: B school. No, she needs clarification. She's like, what the

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Speaker 1: funk are you talking about? And he's like, oh, sabby

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Speaker 1: business school. And then he says he works on Wall

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Speaker 1: Street and we're like, anyway, So he hits on Stony

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Speaker 1: and eventually asks her out while they're scoping out this

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Speaker 1: bank that they intend to rob. Meanwhile, to Sean has

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Speaker 1: to bring her baby to work since she can't afford

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Speaker 1: a babysitter, and the baby accidentally consumes some cleaning products

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Speaker 1: and they have to rush him to the hospital and

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Speaker 1: then Child Protective Services take her baby away. So now

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Speaker 1: everyone is even more highly motivated to go through with

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Speaker 1: robbing a bank, so they start to make preparations. Cleo

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Speaker 1: procures some guns and a getaway car some guns from

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Speaker 1: Dr dre Yes a great cameo the playing the guy

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Speaker 1: of guy that owes favor right and has a bunch

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Speaker 1: of guns. That's such a fun heist trope to me

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Speaker 1: because I feel like that that is like a character

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Speaker 1: that appears in some form and every highest movie of like,

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Speaker 1: well how will we get item, It's like, oh, guy

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Speaker 1: owes me favor and then we see guy who else favor.

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Speaker 1: So then Frankie Stony Cleo into Sean go to rob

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Speaker 1: a bank wearing disguises, and a couple of them feel

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Speaker 1: uneasy about it, but Frankie sets it off. Hey, that's

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Speaker 1: the name of the movie. I love how much they

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Speaker 1: say that the name of the movie, and well someone

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Speaker 1: had to set it off. Yeah, Well, because when when

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Speaker 1: Cleo is getting the gun, she's like, no, I don't

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Speaker 1: want I want something that can set it off. And

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Speaker 1: I'm like yes, like yeah right, I one of the

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Speaker 1: many things. I mean, it's like it's hard not to

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Speaker 1: want to talk about every part of the movie as

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Speaker 1: we mentioned it, but there's so like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I I love that. I feel like a lesser movie

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Speaker 1: would kind of employ some like they all know how

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Speaker 1: to set it off right away, but they get like

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Speaker 1: steadily better at robbing banks as the movie goes on,

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Speaker 1: where like the aesthetic and the weapons for the first

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Speaker 1: robbery are very different from the third, and you're like, okay,

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Speaker 1: we're all learning here. This is cool for sure. The

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Speaker 1: way the first robbery was shot was really cool because

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Speaker 1: it was all one shot, just kind of like moving

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Speaker 1: around the room. There's no edits, and it happens in

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Speaker 1: exactly sixty seconds because you see the shot starts with

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Speaker 1: a clock and then ends with the same clock and

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Speaker 1: it's one minute later, and you're just like, oh, this

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Speaker 1: is good filmmaking. The blocking in this scene, the acting

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Speaker 1: in this scene music. I loved it. So anyway, So

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Speaker 1: they arrive at this first bank and they go through

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Speaker 1: with it except for two Sean, who runs away um

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Speaker 1: because she chickens out and it's a success, and then

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Speaker 1: get away with twelve dollars. Meanwhile, though, the same cops

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Speaker 1: from earlier, Detective Strode and Detective Waller are starting to

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Speaker 1: suspect who might have done this robbery, and they think

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Speaker 1: that Frankie was involved. I have another huge issue with

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Speaker 1: that plot point, but we'll get there. Then Stony goes

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Speaker 1: out with Keith. Meanwhile, Cleo and Frankie want to rob

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Speaker 1: another bank because they need more money to be able

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Speaker 1: to kind of fully leave their old lives behind. Stony

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Speaker 1: doesn't want to. She and Cleo get in a huge fight,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't last long. They make up, and then

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Speaker 1: there's this fun Godfather inspired I had seen this scene before,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't know the context of when it came

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Speaker 1: in the movie, so I went in thinking said It

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Speaker 1: Off was way sillier. Oh, then it ends up being

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Speaker 1: but that that scene is so awesome. It's so good. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's a great scene. And also I hadn't listened to them.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how much Destiny's Child you listen to

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Speaker 1: listen to, but their album The Writings on the Wall

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Speaker 1: starts with a scene just like that with Missy Elliott

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Speaker 1: talking to Destiny's Child like the Godfather, and I had

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Speaker 1: grown up hearing that. And then I watched Set it

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Speaker 1: Off after that, and I was like, oh, okay, wait,

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Speaker 1: I never would have connected that. I know exactly. Wow, Yes,

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Speaker 1: Set it Off was first, so I think that it

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Speaker 1: came from that. They're just big fans. Oh I love that.

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Speaker 1: That's great. So basically the group is like, Okay, we

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Speaker 1: just need to do one more big robbery and then

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Speaker 1: we'll be set it off. You're like, but what about

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Speaker 1: the rule of threes? I know, all right, they don't

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Speaker 1: they haven't thought about that yet. Yeah, they don't know

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Speaker 1: what the screenwriting rules at this moment. So they go

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Speaker 1: to the second bank, and this robbery is kind of

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Speaker 1: touch and go. It's lasting a little too long there

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Speaker 1: there getaway gets a little botched, but they managed to

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Speaker 1: get away with the second one. Isn't the second one

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Speaker 1: where Queen Latifa drives through the bank correct which it

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Speaker 1: gets a little botched, just drives the car into the bank.

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Speaker 1: I love that scene. Apparently there's like a display of

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Speaker 1: like Teddy Bears the truck runs into because all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden there's a shot of like Teddy Bears exploding

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Speaker 1: across the front of the car. No, no, it's perfect,

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Speaker 1: it's great. And also t t really steps up in

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Speaker 1: this robbery because she is like someone almost someone has

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Speaker 1: a gun and someone is going to stop them. But

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Speaker 1: then she's able to which I really liked. I liked

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Speaker 1: that it was like she got scared the first time,

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Speaker 1: and then the second time she was like instrumental to

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Speaker 1: set setting it off, setting it off. Yeah, she's pretending

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Speaker 1: to be one of the hostages basically, and then she's like,

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Speaker 1: oh no, you don't when the guy with the gun

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Speaker 1: tries to stop things. For this robbery, they managed to

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Speaker 1: get away with over two hundred and sixty thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: Their plan is that they're going to keep working at

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Speaker 1: their janitor jobs for the next few days while they

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Speaker 1: get t t. S Son back, and then they're going

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Speaker 1: to leave town. So they stow the money in the

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Speaker 1: hotel where they work at and go about their normal business.

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Speaker 1: Then we have a Stony and Keith Steamy X scene,

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Speaker 1: a lot of tight shots, a lot of oil, good soundtrack,

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Speaker 1: a lot of butts, and then the other show up

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Speaker 1: at work and learn that Luther, their boss, has stolen

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Speaker 1: their cash that they stowed away, so they go after him.

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Speaker 1: They find him, I think it's t t ends up

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Speaker 1: shooting and killing him. They can't find the money, but

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Speaker 1: there is a woman there who Luther was having sex

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Speaker 1: with and she witnessed the whole thing. So then Cleo

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Speaker 1: gets picked up by Detective Strode and put into a lineup,

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Speaker 1: but she had taken this witness's I D and been

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Speaker 1: like this is for insurance, Like if you identify me,

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Speaker 1: I will kill you. As the implication. So Cleo does

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Speaker 1: not get identified and she gets released. But with the

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Speaker 1: money gone, they realized that they have to rob another bank,

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Speaker 1: so they decided to go for the big one, the

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Speaker 1: rule of threes bank, and Jada is like not keeps

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Speaker 1: bank and then and they're like, yes, bang bank. Sorry.

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Speaker 1: Now the problem is that the detectives are already there

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Speaker 1: showing security camera footage to the like upper management staff

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Speaker 1: at the bank, and Keith recognizes Stoney from the footage

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Speaker 1: and he's like, no, not my girlfriend Stony. So the

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Speaker 1: women show up to rob the bank, but because the

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Speaker 1: like cops are already like right there, there's this big shootout.

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Speaker 1: T T gets shot, they get away, and then two

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Speaker 1: Sean dies in Stoney's arms, another very tragic scene, and

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Speaker 1: then they have to escape from the kind of that situation,

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00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 1: and then Cleo kind of martyrs herself to save Stony

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Speaker 1: and Frankie. Stony gets on a bus, but Frankie gets

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Speaker 1: caught and killed, but Stone makes it to Mexico and

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Speaker 1: she's got her bag of money and she's the only

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Speaker 1: one to make it out, and then the film ends

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Speaker 1: with her kind of driving along the coast. It's a

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Speaker 1: perfect ending shot. Yeah. Yeah, so that is the story.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break and then we'll come right

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Speaker 1: back to discuss where where should we start the discussion.

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Speaker 1: There's there's a lot of stuff here. This is one

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Speaker 1: of the best casts. Like, it's such a great cast

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Speaker 1: because I mean when I I've been you know, looking

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Speaker 1: back and researching um black film for like the past

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Speaker 1: thirty years and just kind of look specifically looking at

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00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 1: a lot of the talent that really didn't get to

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Speaker 1: be in that many movies because there just weren't roles

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Speaker 1: for them, and this cast is just so it's so perfect,

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00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 1: like just all of my favorite so many of my

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Speaker 1: favorite under used actress is like specifically, I think that

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Speaker 1: Vivid A. Fox wasn't underused actress for a while, especially

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Speaker 1: like until like leading up to like kill Bill, but

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Speaker 1: even like since kill Bill, she's been really underused. Kimberly Alice,

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Speaker 1: who I Love, Love Love and who was She started

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Speaker 1: the very first Tyler Perry movie, Diary of a Mad

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Speaker 1: Black Woman, and she was she was amazing in it,

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Speaker 1: and and she I mean like and you know, Tyler

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Speaker 1: Perry got huge after that. I mean he was already

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Speaker 1: huge in terms of like um theater and stuff. But

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Speaker 1: I hope ever we got huge in film and she didn't,

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Speaker 1: And I hate that because she's great and Jada Pinkett

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Speaker 1: Smith one of the most underused actresses of our time.

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Speaker 1: We were just talking about that in The Bad Mom's

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Speaker 1: episode where like she plays one of the side characters

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Speaker 1: who's like one of the mean yeah, and it's like,

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Speaker 1: what you have her? Why didn't you use her at all?

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Speaker 1: Like her and Magic Mike Double x L. Like Jada

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Speaker 1: pink like that was that was beautiful. I was like,

424
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 1: we need to use her like she's used in Magic

425
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 1: Mike Double x L and everyone she and she really like,

426
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 1: I mean, I had to look up. I was like,

427
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: how old is she in this movie? She's like twenty

428
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 1: five if that, and she's just like on another love

429
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,120
Speaker 1: I mean, she's her performance in this movie is fucking incredible.

430
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:29,199
Speaker 1: It's so good everyone she's she's amazing and uh. And

431
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: I also love that she got a love scene because

432
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 1: I love I love sexy Jada Pinkett I love well.

433
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: I guess that that's like a place we could go

434
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 1: to because we see we see um Stony have sex

435
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 1: twice in this movie and something that I appreciated that

436
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: the movie does is the way that those two sex

437
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: scenes are framed couldn't be more different, and because they're

438
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 1: told from her perspective, which I feel like it's something

439
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 1: we lose sometimes in movies where even if the protagonist

440
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: is a woman, you still somehow end up seeing the

441
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: sex scenes from the male perspective for no reason, presumably,

442
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: But in this we see her at the beginning. I

443
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 1: forget what the name of the card dealership guy is,

444
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: but the Nate I think Nate. Okay, so so he

445
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 1: I mean he coerces her basically into having sex so

446
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: that she can do this down payment for U. C.

447
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 1: L A. And you see her face during that scene.

448
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 1: It doesn't focus or linger on him. There's no like

449
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 1: you know, over the time, like you are there with her,

450
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 1: not with him. And then in the sex scene with Keith,

451
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 1: it's like the best. It's a corny nineties there's a candle.

452
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 1: There's got to be a candle. It's just as if

453
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:55,239
Speaker 1: there's an open flame, just there's oil everywhere. You got

454
00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: very slippery. It's a very slippery sex scene. And like

455
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 1: Blair Underwood, like because Blair Underwood is so much always

456
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: like he's always playing like very like they I mean,

457
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: Cleo calls him, calls his character this in the movie

458
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 1: a buppy, a black yuppie, Like he's always playing that character,

459
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: and that character is usually very like rigid and kind

460
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,880
Speaker 1: of like sexless, even though he's so handsome. Like even

461
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: I remember watching him on Sex in the City and

462
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,360
Speaker 1: being like, imagine what this would be like if he

463
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 1: wasn't surrounded by white people in the show, Like what

464
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,199
Speaker 1: if there was a Sex in the City where I

465
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 1: just got to see his ass all the time, and

466
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: then I wouldn't also have to think about him being

467
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: fetishized by like white women who just like love the

468
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,479
Speaker 1: way that he talks or you know. But yeah, so

469
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: seeing him get a sex scene is really nice. There

470
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: there really aren't that many Blair Underwood sex scenes, which

471
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: is a crime. It's a great So I really enjoyed

472
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: the sex scene. It's so like it's very of its time,

473
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: but it's good and it's like and and contrasted with

474
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: the other sex scene feels exactly right in the opposite direction.

475
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 1: And usually you get those overly objectifying or like exploitative

476
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: sex scenes from male directors, which this movie does have.

477
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: So shout out to director f. Gary Gray, you know,

478
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 1: legendary black director for you know, treating those sex scenes

479
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 1: responsibly and being respectful of the characters, and just the

480
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 1: entire narrative to me, is by and large very respectful

481
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: of its subjects, these four women. It tells their story,

482
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: it dives into their characters. We understand who they are,

483
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: they're so distinct from each other, we understand their motivations

484
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: because that does not always happen when you have a

485
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: male director directing women. Well. F. Gary Gray is also like,

486
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: he's this is I've I've seen I think more f.

487
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: Gary Gray movies than not. I had not seen this

488
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: one all the way through. But he also if you

489
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 1: want to feel horrible about yourself, he's seven when this

490
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: movie comes out, So there's that. And his his big

491
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: movie before this was Friday with Ice Cube and Chris Tucker,

492
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: which comes out the year before this. So he's just

493
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: like firing on all cylinders, especially at this point in

494
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: his career. But don't sleep on the fate of the

495
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: Furious Um. Now, I want to talk about some other

496
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: people behind the scenes. So the film was written by

497
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: two people. Takashi Buford, who is a black man and

498
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: Kate Lanier, who we were Yeah, Caitlyn and I were talking. Uh,

499
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: we had a long discussion about Caitlyn near earlier today

500
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: because she's uh, she's kind, she's all over the place.

501
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: So from I research, here is what I've gathered. She

502
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: wrote to the screenplay for such films as Beauty Shop,

503
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: What's Love Got to Do With It? Glitter, a TV

504
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: movie about TLC, among a few other projects. So these

505
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: are mostly movies that are about black women. Now, as

506
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 1: far as her background, she is a white woman, yes,

507
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: so or so? Okay, Well, we watched I had the

508
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: same thing where I'm like, I'm like, true, she's a

509
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: white woman, but when you search her face, you're you

510
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: get the same kind of like unclear iage. Okay. We

511
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: were having this discussion today because we were also we're like, okay,

512
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: we want to be sure that this. So Caitlin found

513
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 1: an hour long interview and bravely watched, watched the whole thing.

514
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: And Kate Linear is white. But don't ask her if

515
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: she's white because she'll say, well, I'm half Jewish my

516
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: dad's side of the family. There's all kinds of stuff

517
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: going on there, and it's like you're okay white, and

518
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: then but she then she later says she doesn't know

519
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: what she is and um, and then she acknowledges that

520
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: she looks white because it's because she's white, that's why

521
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: she looks and then okay, here's the here is the

522
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: absolute worst part of this interview. She goes on to

523
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: say that because she has hung out with a lot

524
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: of black people and that she gravitates towards them, she

525
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: feels eligible to tell black stories, and by tell she

526
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: means profits off from she It's the only like extended

527
00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,080
Speaker 1: interview of her that exists. She's being interviewed by a

528
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: black woman who keeps looking to the camera Jim Halpert

529
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: style every time she starts talking about how she's white,

530
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: but is she white? And it's like, no, she is white.

531
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: It's a mess. She negs the interviewer, and then she

532
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: pivots at the end of this clip to be like, well,

533
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: Hollywood is agist, and I'm like, don't change the subject.

534
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: Do you think that Rachel DoLS All has this interview

535
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: and that like like she like downloaded it to her

536
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: computer and watches it all the time. I was getting

537
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: some Rachel DoLS All vibes from this screenwriter. She yeah, so,

538
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: and then at the end she's like, I'm all forgetting

539
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 1: more black writers into the room, But why are people

540
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 1: mean to be because I'm old and you're like, this

541
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: sentence has been a journey, so wonderful, So glad that

542
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: you watched that. I would not have watched that, So

543
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: thank you for your service. Um well, that brings me

544
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 1: to an excerpt from a book entitled Shaping the Future

545
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: of African American Film, Color Coded Economics and the Story

546
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: Behind the Numbers by Monica White and Donu. I might

547
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 1: have mispronounced that quote. Patriarch capitalism presents several hazards for

548
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: Black cinematic storytelling. Representing Black males as primarily unsupervised except

549
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 1: by law enforcement and correctional institutions does not reflect the

550
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: historical survival of Black families and African American communities that

551
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: have depended upon single mothers. Convention maintains that the black

552
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: man can fix what has been broken in the black community.

553
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 1: This assertion becomes particularly significant considering the race and gender

554
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: of the screenwriters and director of Set It Off. Director

555
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:51,399
Speaker 1: f Gary Gray and screenwriter Takashi Buford are African American males.

556
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,280
Speaker 1: The fact that co writer Kate Lanier is a white

557
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: female who has penned scripts for several films about black

558
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: women is also noteworth the What's Love Got to Do

559
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: with It? Glitter Beauty Shop. Since none of the filmmakers

560
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: on this project are Black women, their only intervention is

561
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 1: through performance, much like Black Americans in early mainstream theater

562
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 1: and film. Um The writer goes on to talk about

563
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: how Black women have been underrepresented, misrepresented, and over sexualized

564
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:27,439
Speaker 1: even in movies made by black filmmakers, again particularly black men,

565
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 1: and then she says, quote Set It Off exposes the

566
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 1: racial and gender disparities in Hollywood's ulmer scale, as well

567
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 1: as the reverberating effects of those disparities both on and

568
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 1: off screen. Employing Black people and women, either for behind

569
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 1: the scenes roles or as actors, does not guarantee a

570
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: fair or honest representation of Black culture or women. So basically,

571
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,439
Speaker 1: she's saying, you know, with this movie, there are black

572
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: people behind the scenes, there is a woman behind scenes,

573
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,320
Speaker 1: but maybe Set it Off, a movie about Black women

574
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 1: and their struggle should have been written and directed by

575
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: black women. Now I would say that this film does

576
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: a pretty good job. Like I really enjoyed this and

577
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 1: I think that there's a lot of great things to

578
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 1: take away from it. But like we were already hinting

579
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,720
Speaker 1: at earlier, like the treatment of like the white male

580
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 1: cop is like a friendly ally to the characters, is

581
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:32,280
Speaker 1: you know, a little and the treatment of his partner

582
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: is kind of like a subordinate who doesn't really seem

583
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,879
Speaker 1: to have any opinions. And I mean the only other

584
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: place where I think that it really comes up is

585
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:48,959
Speaker 1: with Cleo and her girlfriend, which is it's a really

586
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: interesting thing because like I think that Queen Latifa is

587
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 1: really hot, and I can get very clouded by that,

588
00:36:55,440 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: but but like there is no denying that, Like the

589
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: way that she is written is kind of like this

590
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: idea of like, well, you know, it's got to be

591
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: like this, I mean, and not to say that, I mean,

592
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: she's basically playing stud and she's very good at it.

593
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: You know, love the corners of the style, love everything.

594
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: But it's but it is interesting that her girlfriend never talks,

595
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: and I think that is that could be just like

596
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,879
Speaker 1: no one in the script really having the imagination of like, Okay,

597
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,879
Speaker 1: the stud gets to talk, but what about the fem

598
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: does the fem get to speak in The answer is no,

599
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 1: she doesn't to a point where it's like it seems

600
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 1: like they're making a point by not letting her speak.

601
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 1: The other characters even comment on it. They're like, she's

602
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 1: not going to say anything like that first the scene

603
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 1: when when Ursula is first introduced and they like say hi, Ursula,

604
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: and like she just doesn't respond to like she's not

605
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: going to say anything. Like they comment on the fact

606
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 1: that she doesn't talk, and it's like this could have

607
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: been fixed. It just seems like there's another movie where

608
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: like are they're just like scenes like all put together

609
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,959
Speaker 1: were Ursula's talking and she's like having all these opinions

610
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 1: and it's just like in some other like side movie,

611
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 1: or I would love it if there was like a

612
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 1: cutout scene where she was just like, hey, I don't

613
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 1: think that this is such a good idea, right He

614
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 1: was like, I know exactly how to rob a bank.

615
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: Let me give you some dudes, and don't like there's

616
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 1: so many ways she could have where's the Ursula spinoff?

617
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: It's so bizarre that they don't let La talk. I

618
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:36,919
Speaker 1: have a little more context for the scripting process. So

619
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 1: just last month, Vulture didn't interview with Vivid A Fox

620
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 1: about this movie, and so there's like a ton of

621
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 1: really fun like behind the scenes facts. Um. But one

622
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 1: thing that how I found out that this movie went

623
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,839
Speaker 1: through a number of drafts was Vulture asked what rang

624
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: false about the original script? Vic Fox response quote, Jada

625
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: was a crackhead. There were so many stereotypes of black people.

626
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: F Gary Gray was just like, nope, nope, her brother

627
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:09,240
Speaker 1: was a crack dealer. In the first draft, it didn't

628
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: make any sense. He was like, no, Jade is going

629
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,240
Speaker 1: to be working hard for him to go to school,

630
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 1: and her motivation was him saying I don't want to

631
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: go to school, and the director came up with what

632
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: she had to do to get him the money to

633
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: go to school unquote. So it's and it does sound

634
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: like based on this interview, while obviously that there were

635
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: two main writers of this movie, that f Gary Gray

636
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:36,720
Speaker 1: encouraged all four lead actors to ad lib, to add

637
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: in stuff, um where they felt like it made sense.

638
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 1: There was like I guess that a lot of like

639
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,760
Speaker 1: the famous lines in this movie were ad libbed by

640
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 1: by the actors. Yeah, Vivica A. Fox is so she

641
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: also says that she's athletic seven different times in this interview. Um,

642
00:39:55,640 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 1: she said seven times for some reason her so much.

643
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 1: I guess the next thing I want to touch on is,

644
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: so this is a movie about like black female friendship,

645
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: which we don't see very often at all. I mean,

646
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 1: Jordaniel were talking about how like between this and Girls Trip,

647
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 1: that's kind of it. I mean even waiting to their friends.

648
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 1: But we talked about this on on that episode, where

649
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: like we only see them on screen together for maybe

650
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 1: like twenty minutes in the entire movie, and the rest

651
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 1: of the movie is like those women off with the

652
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 1: various romantic pursuits that they're you know with. So this

653
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 1: is such a rare story to see on screen, at

654
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: least in a cinematic mainstream way. Um. And I like,

655
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 1: as is always the case, the movie was super successful

656
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 1: and it was like a hit, and it made its

657
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: budget back four times because as like, these are stories

658
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,839
Speaker 1: that people want to see, there just weren't any studios

659
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 1: making them or making them to be released to a

660
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: wide audience, was it. In that same interview with Vivica A.

661
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 1: Fox where they were there was mention of this film

662
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:20,879
Speaker 1: being pitched too I think it was a new line

663
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,280
Speaker 1: cinema and being rejected like three times because they didn't

664
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 1: anticipate like anyone would want to see a film about

665
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 1: a bunch of black women. They were just like, who

666
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: wants to see that? And it's like, well, a lot

667
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: of people because this movie was a box office success.

668
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean I feel like a lot of

669
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: those assumptions are like I listened to a lot of

670
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 1: you must remember this, and there were a lot of

671
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 1: assumptions that Hollywood would like try to anticipate the way

672
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 1: that people would react to things and be like, well,

673
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:54,839
Speaker 1: you know, the public wouldn't like this, they wouldn't see this,

674
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 1: and that those were a lot of the arguments that

675
00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 1: they made historically when it came to like black Story reason.

676
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: I mean, those arguments are are the exact same and

677
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: they haven't really changed that much now. And it's I mean,

678
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 1: this movie came out the year after Waiting to Exhale.

679
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: So there's a really good Clerkesha Kent piece and I'm

680
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 1: just like Clerkesha Kent nerd so I to read this

681
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 1: piece that she wrote. But she she basically makes the

682
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 1: argument at one point in her piece about set it

683
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 1: off that um Set It Off and Waiting to Exhale

684
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: are often compared to one another. UM, but she also

685
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: makes the argument that that is like she's like, I

686
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:39,280
Speaker 1: think that it's because there's four black women on the posters,

687
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,760
Speaker 1: because outside of that, you also in this movie see

688
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:46,320
Speaker 1: poor black women. You see like they're they're all working

689
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 1: class people, and you know, in in Waiting to Exhale,

690
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 1: it's you're you're in a different class, You're in Arizona. Like,

691
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 1: it's it's quite different. Yeah, there's really i mean, genre wise,

692
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:02,279
Speaker 1: they're so different, like there's really nothing except that they're

693
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:06,280
Speaker 1: both about four black women. That it's well, it comes

694
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 1: like with with black movies in general, especially movies about

695
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 1: black women, they just tend to be lumped together as

696
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 1: this this like giant genre that's like black, this like

697
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:26,439
Speaker 1: very indirect, like not really descriptive genre. And it's I mean,

698
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 1: it's it's very frustrating because though because people just be like, oh, well,

699
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 1: I'll talk about like, for example, my like a thing,

700
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 1: my kind of like pet thing is that I love

701
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: seeing black women's sexuality on screen, which is like even

702
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 1: in my opinion, like they don't really get to explore

703
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 1: like as in like a way of like objectifying, yes,

704
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: but in terms of like black women enjoying sex, you know,

705
00:43:55,800 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 1: like having orgasms, having a good time, I'm very rarely

706
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 1: see that. And when I start to talk about that,

707
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 1: will people be like, oh, well, there's this movie. In

708
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: this movie, in this movie, it's like, yeah, there's a

709
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,720
Speaker 1: black woman in it, and yes there's a love story.

710
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 1: But does but does she come like does does she retorgasm?

711
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 1: And it's no, she doesn't. So then that's not what

712
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: I'm talking about. It's the yeah that there needs to

713
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 1: be a media test for that. That's gonna be your

714
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 1: your test, that's going to be the podcast for you,

715
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 1: Jordan's in thirty years. And I think that the reason

716
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:38,879
Speaker 1: people like in the in a kind of whether they

717
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 1: really have it or not, bad faith way lump all

718
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,439
Speaker 1: these movies together is because they're just are not enough

719
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: of them that are like released in the mainstream, which

720
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: is an issue at all of its own. It's frustrating. Yes, yeah,

721
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 1: let's take another quick break and then we'll come right

722
00:44:55,000 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 1: back for a more discussion. And we're back ready to

723
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 1: set it off again. I wanted to talk about how

724
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 1: this how useless cops are in this movie, and I

725
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 1: realized that, like it's not just that, like it's not

726
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: just like the stuff that we see in the movie.

727
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: It's also just like the context of what they're doing.

728
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 1: They're putting all of this manpower and all of this

729
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: money and all of these guns and like helicopters and

730
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: riot here and all this stuff to get four women

731
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:35,879
Speaker 1: who just need some money. Like I was just I like,

732
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 1: especially like now with the protests and everything me just

733
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 1: watching this, I'm just like, look at look at all

734
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 1: of this time and energy and ship that they're spending

735
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 1: because four women just want some money. Like why like

736
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,799
Speaker 1: you know with all this all this like funding that

737
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: you you could just give these four black women some

738
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 1: money and then like send them on their way, like

739
00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 1: we don't need to actually do this. And like the

740
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: end with like especially with the chase and the man

741
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 1: hunt and everything, it's so stupid. It's so stupid to

742
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 1: look at like I'm just like just everybody else could

743
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 1: be doing something else. And then like there's a newscaster

744
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 1: and it's like everybody's watching this, and it's like it's

745
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 1: like this is not new this is not like o

746
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,919
Speaker 1: J and Lebronco. These are just like four women who

747
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 1: like need to pay their bills. And the ending drives

748
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 1: me insane because like it's John C. McGinley, and um,

749
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 1: he's talking to Vivica A. Fox's character, and he's just like,

750
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: I mean even even the point in the bank anytime

751
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: that he's just like, we don't need any more violence,

752
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:44,760
Speaker 1: you know, put the gun down. We don't need anymore

753
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: No more people need to die. And so he's like

754
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 1: talking to Vivica A. Fox and like he just he

755
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 1: says that, and it's just like, why are you saying

756
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:59,320
Speaker 1: that when you know that like immediately she is going

757
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,240
Speaker 1: to die. Like it's just so weird to me because

758
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 1: why would she trust him? Because when he's in the

759
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 1: bank and he's like, you know, we don't have to

760
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: do any more violence whatever. Everybody's ready to surrender, and

761
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 1: then they just killed two Sean like just a cop

762
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 1: just like shows up like after he's already like calmed

763
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:23,360
Speaker 1: everyone down and just like shoots because they're just trained

764
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 1: to shoot. And then and then it becomes a shootout,

765
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 1: becomes a shootout because cops are fucking stupid. And then

766
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 1: he for some reason, like he's like so sad about it.

767
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: And so like upset, but then you still like Spear

768
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 1: had this entire fucking man hunt. If you're so sad,

769
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:45,359
Speaker 1: then why do you keep bringing all these people with guns?

770
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 1: Like it doesn't especially because he I feel like the

771
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 1: movie takes multiple opportunities to distance him from what he

772
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 1: is in charge of and is definitely doing because he's

773
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 1: in charge of it. Where like after he started this case,

774
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 1: he started the investigation, the chief who is a black man,

775
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 1: told him not to, and he does it anyway, and

776
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: the whole yeah, he's like, she's colluding. She vificult a

777
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: fox knew the initial bank robbers, so she's in on it.

778
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 1: And it's like he's making a bad faith assumption, and

779
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,279
Speaker 1: then the movie has him turn out to be right,

780
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 1: which I also don't like. I don't like the story

781
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 1: logic there of like he is making a bad faith assumption,

782
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: like flat out, but then they're like, but you know

783
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 1: she did rob the bank. It's like it's oh yeah,

784
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: that That's another thing that makes me really mad about

785
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,320
Speaker 1: this movie, and it reminded me of It actually reminded

786
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 1: me of Crash. I don't know if you've seen two

787
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 1: thousand fours Crash not the good one, the David Cronenberg

788
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 1: one in the nineties where people are turned on by

789
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 1: car crashes. Azing film beautiful. If you ever want to

790
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 1: talk about that one on this podcast, I will come

791
00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: back to talk about the car crash Fuck, the Horning

792
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: car Crash. No, I haven't seen it. It's a movie

793
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 1: about get turned on by car crashes. It's fucking awesome.

794
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:18,439
Speaker 1: I also read the book, A very morning book. Why

795
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 1: wasn't that my idea? But the bad crash, the two

796
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 1: thou four crash um, I don't know. I don't know

797
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:26,720
Speaker 1: if you guys have seen it, but there's a scene

798
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 1: where it's like ludicrous and Ren's tate are just like

799
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 1: talking about police profiling and how everyone just assumes that

800
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 1: they're robbers and that they're gang bangers and everybody has

801
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:42,319
Speaker 1: the worst assumptions and then they immediately commit a rob

802
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 1: someone like it's it's so frush because he is absolutely

803
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 1: profiling in that scene, but the story would have you believe, like,

804
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: but was he wrong? And you're like, that is not.

805
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 1: I don't even think the message that this movie is

806
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:58,800
Speaker 1: trying to say, like what is going on the movie.

807
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 1: The movie doesn't question whether this cop is wrong or not.

808
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:08,280
Speaker 1: The movie really just questions like oh no, like why

809
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:11,439
Speaker 1: is the system like this? And it's like, well, we're

810
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 1: looking at the system. It's John c McGinley. It's just

811
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 1: doing bad things and then feeling bad about it for

812
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 1: a second and then going back to do the things again.

813
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 1: And it feels intentional that the most heinous crimes committed

814
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:29,359
Speaker 1: by cops in this movie are committed by faceless like

815
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 1: we don't know them. It's by random like guy in

816
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 1: background um is always the it's it's a cop that

817
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:40,319
Speaker 1: we don't know, which feels like another intentional choice of

818
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 1: like almost like I don't God only knows who involved

819
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 1: in the production at whatever level made the decision of like, well,

820
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 1: we can't have the cop that we know be the murderer.

821
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 1: It has to just be like background cop number five.

822
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 1: Otherwise that introduces, like, you know, questions that maybe this

823
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 1: movie doesn't quite want to answer. It's so frustrating. And

824
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 1: it's also the fact that we get that I thought

825
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 1: that that exchange between Frankie and Detective Waller at the

826
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,240
Speaker 1: towards the beginning of the movie was setting up something

827
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 1: that could have been like a really interesting, effective like

828
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,720
Speaker 1: conversation and then it's just like, Nope, we're just gonna

829
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 1: give you more John C McGinley than you ever would

830
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 1: have asked. Yeah, nobody, nobody needs that much of him.

831
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 1: I've seen every episode of Scrubs. That was enough. And

832
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 1: it's also like, now that I've seen him in all

833
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 1: these older cop movies, when I watched Scrubs, now he

834
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 1: just looks like a cop. He looks like a doctor cop.

835
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:46,799
Speaker 1: He looks like an undercover cop working at a hospital. Yeah. Well,

836
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:51,959
Speaker 1: there's the Detective Waller character I really cannot make sense of.

837
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 1: She's played by Ella Joyce. There's a scene where Queen

838
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 1: Lativa's character is in the lineup and they're trying to

839
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 1: get the wit is who is having sex with Luke Luther,

840
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 1: to identify Cleo, and she doesn't do it because she

841
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 1: knows Cleo is going to come after her if she

842
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:12,359
Speaker 1: does so. She says, I don't the perpetrator is not

843
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:17,320
Speaker 1: in this lineup. Meanwhile, Detective Waller is like she's right there,

844
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,799
Speaker 1: like she's like she's so mad, and it's just like

845
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:24,239
Speaker 1: I don't like it would be like once again in

846
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 1: Boys in the Hood, it's made like very specifically clear

847
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 1: that like the black cop character does not like other

848
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 1: black people, and that's the point, Like that's the critique,

849
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: Like to become a cop, you would have to not

850
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 1: like other black people. And so like I almost just

851
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,279
Speaker 1: kind of wish that the movie like leaned into this

852
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:48,280
Speaker 1: and was just like she just doesn't like other black women,

853
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 1: because at least that would be interesting and that would

854
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 1: give her something to do, and it would also like

855
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,919
Speaker 1: explain why she's subordinate to this guy who's just like,

856
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 1: for all she knows up until like everything gets ramped up,

857
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 1: who's just like harassing these women, just like writing him

858
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:09,799
Speaker 1: around for no just wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars

859
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 1: of test fare money to just harass these women. And

860
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 1: and it's the way he talks to her is also

861
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:20,240
Speaker 1: like so just arrogant and annoying. He's such a he'said

862
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 1: know it, Like there's what does that scene where they're

863
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:24,960
Speaker 1: both in the office together and he like puts Hirez

864
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:27,759
Speaker 1: photos of the four main actors and it's like, what

865
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:29,799
Speaker 1: did I tell you? And I'm like, oh, this is

866
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:32,399
Speaker 1: the moment where she's gonna like, you know, push back

867
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:34,800
Speaker 1: or something's gonna happen. And then they're like nope, next scene,

868
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:37,399
Speaker 1: you're no. And I don't. I don't like the way

869
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 1: that he talks to all the four main characters either.

870
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:43,839
Speaker 1: He's so condescending. He's just like, yeah, I know your

871
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 1: life is hard, and like all you have to do

872
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 1: is put down the gun and like I know your

873
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 1: whole life story because I'm a FED and I'm like

874
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 1: spying on you, but I'm pretending to be a therapist.

875
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 1: It's like, no, you're a FED, You're a fucking You're

876
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:04,759
Speaker 1: not a therapist. Shut up. No, And therapists don't stalk you.

877
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 1: And they're like I know about your brother and your

878
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 1: mother and your grandma, and it's like no, Like if

879
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 1: my therapist knew that much about me, i'd be like,

880
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 1: what's going on. Therapists famously do not do these things.

881
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 1: It's so it's so frustrating and and I mean, I

882
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 1: guess this might be like an accidentally effective thing where

883
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:30,319
Speaker 1: he's he says at multiple times that he understands what

884
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 1: they're going through, but he obviously doesn't. He would not

885
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 1: be in this job, Like I don't know where that

886
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:42,920
Speaker 1: was headed, which is kind of wild because it's like,

887
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:46,240
Speaker 1: what is happening with the four main characters seems so

888
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 1: focused and like so like the movie knows exactly what

889
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 1: they're doing with the four main characters for the most part,

890
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:56,359
Speaker 1: and then the cop the cop B plot, I feel like, like,

891
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 1: unless you're going to make commentary on what they're doing doing,

892
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 1: why is it there? Like why why? Yeah? Yeah, they don't.

893
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 1: They don't discuss anything. They don't like follow leads. They

894
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 1: decide that these are the women they're stuck without. The

895
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:16,520
Speaker 1: entire time, there's no investigation at all. No, he just

896
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 1: does what his boss tells him not to do, profiles

897
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:25,239
Speaker 1: and then murders people. And then at the end he's like,

898
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:29,720
Speaker 1: all right, Jada, you got me, you can go to Mexico.

899
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:31,919
Speaker 1: And I think that we're supposed to be Like that

900
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 1: was nice of him, Like I was trying to discern

901
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:36,880
Speaker 1: how the movie was trying to Yeah, I think that

902
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 1: we are supposed to. And I mean it's also just like, um,

903
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:44,759
Speaker 1: a bit of like Hollywood morality from that time. I

904
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 1: you know, I love I love black cinema from that time.

905
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:50,280
Speaker 1: It's some of my favorite But there's also this sense

906
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 1: of there's only one of us that's gonna get out

907
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:57,360
Speaker 1: of this, Like in any given movie. From that time,

908
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,760
Speaker 1: you get the feeling that only one person is really

909
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 1: going to make it, and like I almost feel like

910
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:06,919
Speaker 1: Stony makes it just because she has scenes where she's

911
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,320
Speaker 1: just like, you know, don't you ever think about the future,

912
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:13,240
Speaker 1: don't you ever think about where you're going? And because

913
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 1: she's the only one who thinks about the future, she's

914
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 1: the one who lives, right, Okay. So one of the

915
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 1: things that I thought was effective and really cool about

916
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:26,280
Speaker 1: this movie, and you know, still very timely and relevant today,

917
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 1: is like just the idea of these characters doing what

918
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 1: they do because they are trying to get out of

919
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:36,400
Speaker 1: this cycle of poverty and the cards are stacked against

920
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:42,440
Speaker 1: them because they're black women and they come from a

921
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 1: low socioeconomic background, Opportunities are not open to them for

922
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:52,760
Speaker 1: any sort of upward socioeconomic mobility, you know, like every

923
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 1: like they have to rob banks because they have no

924
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:59,360
Speaker 1: other choice. They're they're desperate. Just everything that's happened to

925
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:02,879
Speaker 1: them has lead them to this. And and I love

926
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 1: the line that I who says that we're the four

927
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 1: of them are finally all on board and they're like, okay,

928
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: let's do this. They're like, yeah, let's steal from the

929
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:14,319
Speaker 1: system that is addicted to fucking us over Like that

930
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 1: feels like the yes a thesis statement in the movie.

931
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 1: For sure. It's when um, they're planning the first heist

932
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 1: and t is like, I feel so bad we're stealing

933
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 1: people's money. If we're stealing from a bank, you know,

934
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 1: it's it's other people's money. And then Cleo is like,

935
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 1: no insurance will cover it, Like that's a ridiculous comment.

936
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 1: And then Frankie says, we're just taking from the system

937
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 1: that's sucking us anyway, and we're like, yes, like steal

938
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 1: from that system like do it? Um, But yeah, there's

939
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 1: this there's this kind of like motif I suppose where

940
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 1: it starts with Keith, who again he works in like

941
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 1: corporate bank management. Basically he loves banks, he loves money

942
00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 1: and he has a lot of it, and he is

943
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 1: dating only who She says at one point like I'm

944
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 1: borrowing pieces of your life, like you live this fancy life.

945
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 1: This is not my life or background, like we come

946
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 1: from their very different places basically, But he's like, you know,

947
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 1: what's your five year plan? Like what's what do you plan?

948
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 1: What a five year plan? Like? And she's such a

949
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 1: middle class thing that like I just can't even fathom it,

950
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 1: and she says, I don't know, I've like never I

951
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:32,080
Speaker 1: have no idea, and then she kind of after this

952
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 1: conversation with Keith, she says, hey, Cleo, do you ever

953
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 1: think about the future, Like what's your five year plan?

954
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 1: And Cleo responds, I don't know. I don't have a

955
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 1: five year plan. I'm just trying to get through today.

956
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 1: And it's like, yes, like people trapped in poverty don't

957
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 1: have the luxury of planning ahead or you know, like

958
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:53,880
Speaker 1: too setting goals for the future, Like that is a

959
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 1: very middle class or upper class thing. I don't know

960
00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 1: how much Keith like I that. Keith definitely does like

961
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 1: learn a lot from Stony and he is like he

962
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 1: listens to her and he does take what she has

963
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 1: to say in because the way that that scene about

964
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 1: the five year plan ends is Stony starts talking about

965
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:16,920
Speaker 1: her brother and he's like, well, great, what's your brother's

966
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 1: five year plan? And she's like he was murdered and

967
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 1: Keith is like, right, like it just so I do

968
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 1: I do appreciate that those conversations, you know, happened between them,

969
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:33,560
Speaker 1: and it's like two different class experiences entirely and but yeah,

970
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:36,440
Speaker 1: joining you're totally right. I didn't even connect the dots

971
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 1: on that one where it's the person who survives is

972
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 1: the one who was taking in that kind of five

973
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:48,640
Speaker 1: year plan morality upwardly mobile and all that. Yeah, well,

974
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:51,640
Speaker 1: I mean, like because when you have Cleo, like you

975
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 1: know very early that Cleo is going to die simply

976
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:58,800
Speaker 1: because like in the wake of Reagan and everything like that,

977
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:01,720
Speaker 1: we see Leo. You know, as soon as she gets

978
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 1: the money, she gets rims and she gets like she

979
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 1: gets like hydraulics for her car, and it's just like,

980
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 1: I know that based on the morality from that time,

981
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:13,439
Speaker 1: there's no way that she's going to live because she's

982
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 1: got hydraulics for her car, like, and it's just I mean,

983
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 1: that's that's the kind of morality that movies were working

984
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 1: on at that time. So I mean, I hope that

985
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 1: it's changed. I wouldn't really know, because there's not really

986
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:30,920
Speaker 1: any recent films to compare this too, not that I

987
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:34,360
Speaker 1: can think of. I mean, I guess, I guess you

988
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 1: I guess maybe hustlers, hustlers get like there's similar themes

989
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 1: going on. Yeah, man, we gotta do Hustlings growing over

990
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:49,320
Speaker 1: the system. Wait, you haven't done Hustlers yet. We haven't

991
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 1: done We have five million requests for Hustlckers and we

992
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:56,960
Speaker 1: haven't done it yet. Love Hustlers so much. But but

993
01:00:57,200 --> 01:00:58,600
Speaker 1: one thing that I want to talk about that we

994
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 1: didn't talk about is that they get high together in

995
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:05,520
Speaker 1: a scene, and it's my favorite scene in the movie.

996
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 1: And I realized that, like, I can't think of a

997
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:10,040
Speaker 1: lot of movies where black women are just getting high together,

998
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 1: which is weird because like that is what I do

999
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:19,800
Speaker 1: with my friends, We get high. Like it's just weird.

1000
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 1: It's all the scenes where they're together are so great,

1001
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 1: but that one, Yeah, that one is the best. And

1002
01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:28,120
Speaker 1: it seems like I would guess that there is like

1003
01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:30,480
Speaker 1: a fair amount of ad living in that scene as well,

1004
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 1: because it's just like so comfortable and so natural and

1005
01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:37,600
Speaker 1: so oh it's great. Yeah. I just want to see

1006
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:41,000
Speaker 1: black women getting orgasms and getting high. I mean, those

1007
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 1: are two are my favorite things. Both do happen in

1008
01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:46,919
Speaker 1: this movie. I mean, I guess, But do we see

1009
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:49,440
Speaker 1: Jay to come? I assume that she does. Maybe I shouldn't.

1010
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:52,520
Speaker 1: I assume. I assume that she does too, but I mean,

1011
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 1: who knows, Like it might have just been like really

1012
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 1: hot and heavy, and then like right before she hits it,

1013
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 1: he's just like, all right, I'm done, I'm tired. Would

1014
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:07,440
Speaker 1: you like a pop tart? Having pop tarts in like that?

1015
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:12,880
Speaker 1: That's like his one like working class treat, heard of

1016
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 1: these pop tarts? A be school there, but yeah there.

1017
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 1: Their friendship is so it. I like how often it's

1018
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:28,640
Speaker 1: put on display. It's a major plot point at different points,

1019
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:31,320
Speaker 1: and I also love that they are. I feel like

1020
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 1: female friendships across the board are often kind of written

1021
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 1: in this very like no one ever disagrees with each

1022
01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 1: other way, or if they do disagree with each other,

1023
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:45,120
Speaker 1: it's it's this big end of second act kind of disagreement.

1024
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:48,960
Speaker 1: But like the four main characters are constantly like they

1025
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 1: bigger with each other a lot. There are certain like

1026
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 1: flare ups in their friendship, like after the first robbery

1027
01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 1: where t T runs away before the robbery and then

1028
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:02,040
Speaker 1: I it's Frankie who is like, no, you don't get

1029
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:05,400
Speaker 1: any money, you didn't participate in the robbery, and and

1030
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 1: then apologizes and it's like, okay, sorry that was sucked up.

1031
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:11,080
Speaker 1: I should have said that obviously we all want you

1032
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 1: to get your son back, and like just having that

1033
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:17,800
Speaker 1: like really strong friendship, but also just seeing in the

1034
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:21,000
Speaker 1: way that like strong friendships are where it's like people

1035
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:27,200
Speaker 1: fight with their best friends constantly. Yeah, I mean, And

1036
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:30,920
Speaker 1: it goes to show just how well these characters are characterized,

1037
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 1: because it never feels not justified, like any argument or

1038
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:38,439
Speaker 1: disagreement they have. You understand where each character is coming

1039
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 1: from because you know the character well enough to understand

1040
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:47,520
Speaker 1: their motivations and everything that informs their opinions and all

1041
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:50,000
Speaker 1: of that stuff. Can we go like just character to

1042
01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:54,240
Speaker 1: character and just quick runda, I mean with with t T.

1043
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:58,560
Speaker 1: I love, I love t T so much, I hate

1044
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:01,840
Speaker 1: so like I I do appreciate that the movie like

1045
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 1: makes it explicitly clear like why they are put in

1046
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:11,640
Speaker 1: these extremely unfair situations where it's once Luther puts t

1047
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 1: T on the books and she's not getting money under

1048
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:16,960
Speaker 1: the table anymore so much taxes are taken out that

1049
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 1: she can't afford childcare, which directly leads to her having

1050
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 1: her son taken away, which is fucking awful. Like there,

1051
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:26,400
Speaker 1: and and it makes it clear that this is like

1052
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:29,640
Speaker 1: not a fair situation for her to have to be in,

1053
01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:33,520
Speaker 1: and then everyone surrounding the situation except for her friends,

1054
01:04:33,560 --> 01:04:38,400
Speaker 1: are being deeply antagonistic and unhelpful about it. Do we

1055
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:41,520
Speaker 1: we never find out what happens to her baby either, No,

1056
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I wish they had. I guess.

1057
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:46,520
Speaker 1: I don't know if there would have been like an

1058
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 1: organic way in the narrative to like address what happened

1059
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:53,240
Speaker 1: to that baby, but we just kind of don't revisit

1060
01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:56,720
Speaker 1: that at all. Yeah. That made me feel bad. Yeah,

1061
01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:00,800
Speaker 1: I was like I worry about that, that poor kid,

1062
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:04,360
Speaker 1: such a cute kid. Yeah, and then like I mean

1063
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 1: you have to imagine that like there's never enough social

1064
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:12,280
Speaker 1: workers in foster care and just that it's it's terrifying.

1065
01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 1: Well yeah, and I mean there's also just you know

1066
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:18,280
Speaker 1: the history of like child protective services being weaponized against

1067
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:22,800
Speaker 1: black mothers, and mostly you know, it's black mothers losing

1068
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:27,360
Speaker 1: their children because they have to work. Almost like services

1069
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 1: should be offered instead of instead of just you know,

1070
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:36,880
Speaker 1: taking people's children away, yeah, and giving them to strangers. Yeah.

1071
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 1: I guess we Yeah, I did, we did. We don't

1072
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 1: find out what happens to her son, and there I

1073
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:46,600
Speaker 1: mean her teaches death. I mean, everyone's death is devastating,

1074
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:49,960
Speaker 1: but teaching death. And I mean just that scene, and

1075
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:53,440
Speaker 1: that is like so beautifully acted by Jada pinkett Um

1076
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 1: when she's talking about the banana flambay as like teaches

1077
01:05:56,920 --> 01:06:01,320
Speaker 1: ye in her arms. It's just like it's got renting, heartbreaking.

1078
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:04,280
Speaker 1: And then after that scene, this movie does it a

1079
01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:06,560
Speaker 1: couple of times. It never really bothers me, but there

1080
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:10,640
Speaker 1: are a few abrupt tonal switches in this movie, and

1081
01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:12,680
Speaker 1: one of them comes right after t T's death, where

1082
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:15,920
Speaker 1: I was like crying my eyes out on my couch,

1083
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:18,760
Speaker 1: and then they got to keep the movie going, so

1084
01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:21,160
Speaker 1: then it's like do do do do do? And then

1085
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:23,240
Speaker 1: it's like back to the chase and you're like, okay,

1086
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:25,680
Speaker 1: I guess yeah, and the chase is still happening. I

1087
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:31,040
Speaker 1: just but yeah. And then we have Cleo an out character.

1088
01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:36,400
Speaker 1: Yes it's a miracle in the in the nineties. Um, yeah,

1089
01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:42,320
Speaker 1: I again, I wish maybe her girlfriend had said one

1090
01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:46,560
Speaker 1: word or you know, she's not a part of the group,

1091
01:06:46,680 --> 01:06:48,800
Speaker 1: she's not one of the main characters. But it was

1092
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:52,280
Speaker 1: a choice and a choice that I don't necessarily understand,

1093
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:55,080
Speaker 1: and maybe that was just but like, there are jokes

1094
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:57,640
Speaker 1: in this movie, but this isn't a comedy. There's comic

1095
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:01,600
Speaker 1: relief now and then, but totally this is a pretty

1096
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:05,160
Speaker 1: this is a serious film. So if there's like a

1097
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:08,160
Speaker 1: running gag, like, wouldn't it be funny if like Ursula

1098
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:10,640
Speaker 1: just never talks and like that was a running gag

1099
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:13,480
Speaker 1: and like that the filmmakers decided to throw in there.

1100
01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:17,160
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, weird choice, weird movie to put a

1101
01:07:17,240 --> 01:07:21,360
Speaker 1: running gag like that in the in the story, but okay,

1102
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:24,360
Speaker 1: but um, but in any case, yes, Cleo, I think

1103
01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:28,120
Speaker 1: Cleo is my favorite character of the four. I do

1104
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:31,520
Speaker 1: like them all a lot, but like Queen Latifa's performance

1105
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:34,560
Speaker 1: is just she knocks it out of the park and

1106
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:38,040
Speaker 1: she's wonderful. I mean, Cleo is so is you know,

1107
01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 1: she's very honest and you know, she's very funny, and

1108
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:47,240
Speaker 1: she's and she's brave her her death which is very sad,

1109
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:51,120
Speaker 1: but it's a very brave death. Yeah, she's she martyrs

1110
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:56,640
Speaker 1: herself and she like lights a cigarette. She's just like

1111
01:07:57,000 --> 01:07:59,520
Speaker 1: I love that. That's so thumb and Louise just like

1112
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:03,720
Speaker 1: let's go. Yeah it's and they referenced Thelma and Louise

1113
01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:05,960
Speaker 1: earlier in the movie to reference it in the movie,

1114
01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:10,440
Speaker 1: and this movie, by critics got compared to Thelma and

1115
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 1: Louise because critics just love in a car. Caitlin clearly there.

1116
01:08:19,280 --> 01:08:21,960
Speaker 1: Yeah her, I mean, her death is devastating, but she

1117
01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:25,000
Speaker 1: gets that kind of like yeah, that like cowboy moment

1118
01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:29,040
Speaker 1: at the end of like she's been put in this impossible,

1119
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:33,439
Speaker 1: unfair situation. It's being broadcast on news because why and

1120
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:36,200
Speaker 1: she still you know, in the way that she is

1121
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:40,000
Speaker 1: able to take control of the situation all that she can,

1122
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:43,240
Speaker 1: which like is it's great, it's great. You also see

1123
01:08:43,280 --> 01:08:47,200
Speaker 1: her and her girlfriend um kiss. You so rarely see

1124
01:08:47,400 --> 01:08:49,880
Speaker 1: even if there is a queer character in a movie,

1125
01:08:50,360 --> 01:08:53,840
Speaker 1: they often are not allowed to be seen kissing or

1126
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:58,120
Speaker 1: embracing their their partner. And they were nuzzling. You see

1127
01:08:58,160 --> 01:09:01,240
Speaker 1: them kiss and it's like I found that surprising for

1128
01:09:01,320 --> 01:09:04,000
Speaker 1: a movie made in the mid nineties. Yeah, if it

1129
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:06,240
Speaker 1: were me, I would have added a scene with them

1130
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:09,840
Speaker 1: in bed together. But yes, it's very good. I was, Yeah,

1131
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:11,960
Speaker 1: it's like it's it's you don't quite get the Blair

1132
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:15,800
Speaker 1: Underwood treatment, but I would have appreciated it. That scene

1133
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:19,000
Speaker 1: where Queen Latifa is like kissing up Ursula's leg. I

1134
01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 1: was like, I'm interested, let's maybe like, let's not interrupt this,

1135
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:28,600
Speaker 1: but is gonna sure, But yeah, I feel like the

1136
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:32,160
Speaker 1: queer visibility in this movie is infinitely higher than you know,

1137
01:09:32,320 --> 01:09:37,800
Speaker 1: most of nine. Yeah, for sure. Frankie. I I think

1138
01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:41,559
Speaker 1: Frankie is like I mean we were talking earlier about

1139
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:46,719
Speaker 1: how you know, like the movie really makes each woman's

1140
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:51,320
Speaker 1: situation explicitly clear, which you almost never get in hist movies.

1141
01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:54,280
Speaker 1: It's usually a more vague like we would like money

1142
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:58,280
Speaker 1: um kind of thing. But for this movie, Frankie is

1143
01:09:58,320 --> 01:10:01,639
Speaker 1: another like very interesting speci of a character because she

1144
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:04,679
Speaker 1: is trying to also get out of the cycle of poverty.

1145
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:08,240
Speaker 1: She is in the process of making that happen by

1146
01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:11,400
Speaker 1: working at a bank and then through no fault of

1147
01:10:11,439 --> 01:10:14,519
Speaker 1: her own, that's taken from her and she is knocked

1148
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:19,080
Speaker 1: back down and is rightfully angry about it. That scene

1149
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:21,720
Speaker 1: at the beginning that like vivic A Fox is just

1150
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:25,599
Speaker 1: like fucking destroys. I was thinking of like Vivica Fox

1151
01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:29,280
Speaker 1: between this and kill Bell, like she really knows how

1152
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:33,519
Speaker 1: to open a movie, Like she can really get a

1153
01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:36,360
Speaker 1: movie started. But like the scene with her and her

1154
01:10:36,360 --> 01:10:39,640
Speaker 1: bosses and the police where no one is coming to

1155
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:43,960
Speaker 1: her defense. She's literally saying like, I don't even really

1156
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:46,559
Speaker 1: know that guy. I just live near him, and they're

1157
01:10:46,600 --> 01:10:51,920
Speaker 1: just openly discriminating against her, and it's it's so painful

1158
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:55,320
Speaker 1: to watch and if it, Yeah, they perceive her as

1159
01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:59,840
Speaker 1: being guilty by association just because of where she grew up,

1160
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:02,240
Speaker 1: and she says like, I can't help who I know.

1161
01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:05,240
Speaker 1: This isn't a friend of mine, Like, it's just a

1162
01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:08,639
Speaker 1: guy she's seen around in her neighborhood. And like they're like, well,

1163
01:11:08,680 --> 01:11:12,800
Speaker 1: you're probably colluding. You're in your this is collusion and

1164
01:11:13,080 --> 01:11:16,400
Speaker 1: it doesn't sit well with us that you know this person,

1165
01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:19,360
Speaker 1: so you're fired. And I love that she kind of

1166
01:11:20,280 --> 01:11:22,400
Speaker 1: she's not her idea to rob the bank, but she

1167
01:11:22,520 --> 01:11:25,479
Speaker 1: sort of spearheads the plan of like, well, I know banks,

1168
01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:28,320
Speaker 1: like I know that you have to do like during

1169
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:30,840
Speaker 1: a robbery, the tellers are going to do this, and

1170
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:32,479
Speaker 1: they're going to do this with their right hand, in

1171
01:11:32,479 --> 01:11:34,200
Speaker 1: this with their left hand, so like we have to

1172
01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:36,880
Speaker 1: we know how to get around that, and that's how

1173
01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:40,360
Speaker 1: we're going to be successful at this, which unfortunately, by

1174
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:43,760
Speaker 1: the end they are not, but like, but she gets

1175
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:46,000
Speaker 1: that amazing line at the end where people are giving

1176
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:47,880
Speaker 1: her ship about the procedure of the procedure of the

1177
01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:50,400
Speaker 1: procedure at the beginning, where she was just like, there

1178
01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:53,559
Speaker 1: was like a gun in my friend to my face,

1179
01:11:53,600 --> 01:11:57,280
Speaker 1: I'm sorry I didn't enact the procedure perfectly. And then

1180
01:11:57,320 --> 01:11:59,559
Speaker 1: she's fired. And then at the end she even though

1181
01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:03,600
Speaker 1: I'm just like, why does the cop not die at

1182
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:06,479
Speaker 1: the end? Infuriating, but but she gets that line like

1183
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:08,800
Speaker 1: what's the procedure at the end and gets to throw

1184
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:12,960
Speaker 1: it back in his face, And man, I just wanted

1185
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:15,679
Speaker 1: I just wanted him to just like burst into tears

1186
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:19,640
Speaker 1: and just hit the ground after that, right, like just

1187
01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:23,599
Speaker 1: be he should just be like everyone, everyone go home.

1188
01:12:23,960 --> 01:12:29,040
Speaker 1: I'm a piece of ship. We I mean, it's like

1189
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:31,880
Speaker 1: I don't even think he loses sleep that night, like

1190
01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:35,200
Speaker 1: he's just it's so fucking infuriating. But I am glad

1191
01:12:35,240 --> 01:12:38,960
Speaker 1: that Frankie got like got a last line and on it.

1192
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:44,400
Speaker 1: But it's just it's it's so devastating and infuriating and

1193
01:12:44,400 --> 01:12:47,560
Speaker 1: and and vividate. A Fox is just like such a powerhouse,

1194
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:51,719
Speaker 1: like it's so it's so good, like during that scene,

1195
01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 1: he's like, no, everyone, stand down, fellow police, lower your weapons.

1196
01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:58,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to go talk to this woman. And it's

1197
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:02,920
Speaker 1: like good cop. And it's uh, this again, this this

1198
01:13:03,120 --> 01:13:07,919
Speaker 1: like the trope of like the white male police officer

1199
01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:11,400
Speaker 1: who just wants to help you. He's like, help me,

1200
01:13:11,479 --> 01:13:14,479
Speaker 1: help you. We see the same thing in thelm in Louise.

1201
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:20,840
Speaker 1: We see the same thing in National Treasure. Harvey Kitel

1202
01:13:21,080 --> 01:13:25,240
Speaker 1: plays both of those characters, and then among other films,

1203
01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:29,320
Speaker 1: Harvey plays good Cop a lot. Yes, so it's just

1204
01:13:29,479 --> 01:13:35,440
Speaker 1: this trope that is a part of the whole like copaganda,

1205
01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:40,440
Speaker 1: like just like procom mentality that is so prevalent in Hollywood.

1206
01:13:40,479 --> 01:13:45,200
Speaker 1: But I just I do not understand why that is

1207
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:48,680
Speaker 1: in this movie, this movie that is about like the

1208
01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:52,760
Speaker 1: unfairness and injustice that is the cycle of poverty that

1209
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:55,920
Speaker 1: so many black people are forced into and which is

1210
01:13:56,400 --> 01:14:00,960
Speaker 1: reinforced by police. And why I then bring in a

1211
01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:04,680
Speaker 1: cop character who is like that we're supposed to be

1212
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:08,040
Speaker 1: endeared too and sympathetic to. Yeah, and it it's like

1213
01:14:08,160 --> 01:14:11,439
Speaker 1: the whole this whole character, like this whole stock character

1214
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:16,439
Speaker 1: falls apart under a moment of scrutiny. But hasn't stopped

1215
01:14:16,479 --> 01:14:22,679
Speaker 1: anyone from writing. Yeah, okay. So then and then there's Stony. Yes, Stony,

1216
01:14:22,760 --> 01:14:27,000
Speaker 1: who is I mean, like the she seemed? I guess,

1217
01:14:27,560 --> 01:14:29,000
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean I guess as close as

1218
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:30,640
Speaker 1: you could get to him. I think that it's very

1219
01:14:30,680 --> 01:14:33,240
Speaker 1: much an ensemble movie, but Stony I feel like, probably

1220
01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:35,920
Speaker 1: gets the most screen time out of everybody. But she

1221
01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:40,599
Speaker 1: we we start off by seeing her advocating for her brother,

1222
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:42,639
Speaker 1: trying to get him out of this cycle of poverty,

1223
01:14:42,760 --> 01:14:47,080
Speaker 1: and then he's subjected to police brutality. He's murdered. It.

1224
01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:50,400
Speaker 1: I thought it was so beautiful and like a really

1225
01:14:51,479 --> 01:14:55,120
Speaker 1: important thing to include, to watch her mourn him with

1226
01:14:55,160 --> 01:14:58,880
Speaker 1: her friends. It's a tough scene, but it feels like

1227
01:14:59,439 --> 01:15:02,639
Speaker 1: one that the audience really needs because it's like she's

1228
01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:06,640
Speaker 1: what five year plan, It's it's taken from her. And

1229
01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:10,599
Speaker 1: then immediately she has to get back to work and

1230
01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:13,559
Speaker 1: she has to like move forward with her life kind

1231
01:15:13,560 --> 01:15:16,960
Speaker 1: of whether she likes it or not. And and then

1232
01:15:17,040 --> 01:15:20,080
Speaker 1: and then and then there's Keith. And then there's Keith.

1233
01:15:21,360 --> 01:15:25,679
Speaker 1: I think, I mean, there are some things that Keith

1234
01:15:26,200 --> 01:15:30,160
Speaker 1: does and he he gets like he negs where one

1235
01:15:30,200 --> 01:15:33,120
Speaker 1: may maybe not want him to. He does hit on

1236
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:35,439
Speaker 1: her in his place of work. He's not even doing

1237
01:15:35,479 --> 01:15:37,880
Speaker 1: his job right. He's like, I'm not even supposed to

1238
01:15:37,880 --> 01:15:40,439
Speaker 1: talk to customers, but you were just too hot for

1239
01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:43,679
Speaker 1: me to not talk to which is a classic guy

1240
01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:46,400
Speaker 1: that you don't end up in a relationship with mine,

1241
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:50,519
Speaker 1: But what can you do? Um? But I originally because

1242
01:15:50,520 --> 01:15:52,200
Speaker 1: I feel like that we talk about this a lot

1243
01:15:52,240 --> 01:15:56,000
Speaker 1: of like is the romance story necessary to the to

1244
01:15:56,560 --> 01:15:58,800
Speaker 1: what's happening in the plot, And I think that this

1245
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:03,040
Speaker 1: relationship is important and it's that has a place in

1246
01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:05,720
Speaker 1: the movie. I was prepared to not not think that,

1247
01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:10,000
Speaker 1: but ultimately I feel like it does. Yeah, I guess

1248
01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:14,040
Speaker 1: I can very easily envision a version of this movie

1249
01:16:14,120 --> 01:16:19,920
Speaker 1: where that storyline is removed and it not really affecting

1250
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:23,840
Speaker 1: the whole plot in a way that I feel like

1251
01:16:23,880 --> 01:16:26,800
Speaker 1: there's something lacking, But the fact that it is there

1252
01:16:26,840 --> 01:16:29,000
Speaker 1: it also doesn't bother me. I guess I'm just kind

1253
01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:32,640
Speaker 1: of ambivalent. I mean, you know, I mentioned that I

1254
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:35,360
Speaker 1: was watching this movie earlier on Twitter and somebody mentioned

1255
01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:38,560
Speaker 1: how they feel like the Blair Underwood characters should have

1256
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:41,320
Speaker 1: been cut out, and I mean, he has more of

1257
01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:46,240
Speaker 1: a narrative purpose, like in terms of thematically, then he

1258
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:50,240
Speaker 1: does really like a movie purpose. I mean, he represents

1259
01:16:51,439 --> 01:16:55,200
Speaker 1: the kind of life, like in a since, the kind

1260
01:16:55,200 --> 01:16:58,040
Speaker 1: of life that they could have if their circumstances had

1261
01:16:58,080 --> 01:17:02,440
Speaker 1: been different. Like he's basically just there for the contrast.

1262
01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:07,840
Speaker 1: So I mean like trying to I mean, I guess

1263
01:17:07,880 --> 01:17:12,479
Speaker 1: in a sense, the film was trying to, you know,

1264
01:17:12,720 --> 01:17:14,559
Speaker 1: make a different like that. You know, some Black people

1265
01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:17,240
Speaker 1: have different lives and it's easier for some and it's

1266
01:17:17,240 --> 01:17:19,439
Speaker 1: different for others. Like I mean, and that seems like

1267
01:17:19,439 --> 01:17:24,160
Speaker 1: a very basic thing. But I almost feel like maybe

1268
01:17:24,280 --> 01:17:27,479
Speaker 1: people would feel differently about him being in it if

1269
01:17:28,280 --> 01:17:33,759
Speaker 1: there was some real conflict between him and Stony about

1270
01:17:34,120 --> 01:17:37,000
Speaker 1: things like he's The thing about Keith is that he's

1271
01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:41,320
Speaker 1: once he learns like what he's supposed to learn about,

1272
01:17:41,360 --> 01:17:43,840
Speaker 1: like you know, working class black people are having a

1273
01:17:43,840 --> 01:17:47,160
Speaker 1: different experience, he learns it, and that's really it. And

1274
01:17:47,240 --> 01:17:50,280
Speaker 1: I mean it would have been maybe interesting if it

1275
01:17:50,320 --> 01:17:53,320
Speaker 1: took him longer to learn that lesson and there were

1276
01:17:53,360 --> 01:17:55,599
Speaker 1: like a few more you know, like arguments, in which

1277
01:17:55,640 --> 01:17:58,240
Speaker 1: case then the themes of the movie could like show

1278
01:17:58,280 --> 01:18:00,800
Speaker 1: with themselves in that argument. But think that that's why

1279
01:18:00,800 --> 01:18:04,360
Speaker 1: he's there. Yeah, right, But I agree that he his

1280
01:18:04,640 --> 01:18:08,080
Speaker 1: kind of background could have been used to a greater

1281
01:18:08,360 --> 01:18:12,320
Speaker 1: effect and function um in the narrative than it is.

1282
01:18:12,600 --> 01:18:15,479
Speaker 1: I feel like it it's it starts to head in

1283
01:18:15,520 --> 01:18:18,400
Speaker 1: that direction, but it doesn't quite get all the way there.

1284
01:18:18,400 --> 01:18:21,639
Speaker 1: There definitely could have been other Yeah, just more kind

1285
01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:25,840
Speaker 1: of just thematic or whatever it is that gets explored

1286
01:18:26,200 --> 01:18:29,760
Speaker 1: that they don't tap into as much as they could have. Yeah,

1287
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:32,680
Speaker 1: I agree reading that, it's like it is this like

1288
01:18:33,080 --> 01:18:38,000
Speaker 1: outlet for a discussion about class to happen, And maybe

1289
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:40,639
Speaker 1: it doesn't happen to the extent that it could or should,

1290
01:18:41,439 --> 01:18:43,760
Speaker 1: But I'm glad that it's there. Like there, I mean

1291
01:18:43,800 --> 01:18:45,760
Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff that's on. Is it their

1292
01:18:45,800 --> 01:18:48,160
Speaker 1: first date where he asks her what her five year

1293
01:18:48,200 --> 01:18:52,360
Speaker 1: plan is? If so, what are you doing? Truly? I

1294
01:18:52,360 --> 01:18:54,400
Speaker 1: would love to meet the man that does this, Like

1295
01:18:54,479 --> 01:18:58,000
Speaker 1: that's so confusing to me, Like if this would be

1296
01:18:58,840 --> 01:19:01,360
Speaker 1: a job interview, what do you I have never I

1297
01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:04,519
Speaker 1: don't think like met much less going on a date

1298
01:19:04,560 --> 01:19:07,360
Speaker 1: with a fancy banker. But if this is how they talk,

1299
01:19:07,720 --> 01:19:11,679
Speaker 1: my god. But but I mean in that conversation alone,

1300
01:19:11,720 --> 01:19:14,919
Speaker 1: I feel like, you get a lot of interesting conversations started.

1301
01:19:14,960 --> 01:19:18,360
Speaker 1: You have the five year plan, you have um Stoneys

1302
01:19:18,400 --> 01:19:21,080
Speaker 1: saying he's asking her like, do you feel free? And

1303
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:25,120
Speaker 1: she's like, no, I feel very much caged. And he

1304
01:19:25,600 --> 01:19:27,840
Speaker 1: kind of tries to like cute see his way out

1305
01:19:27,880 --> 01:19:30,760
Speaker 1: of her saying that. But when he listens to her

1306
01:19:30,880 --> 01:19:33,479
Speaker 1: and I agree that there, you know it. Maybe there

1307
01:19:33,479 --> 01:19:37,240
Speaker 1: would be more productive discussion if if the script had

1308
01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:40,080
Speaker 1: his character pushed back a little more, because I feel

1309
01:19:40,080 --> 01:19:45,800
Speaker 1: like he represents kind of this like bootstraps mentality I

1310
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:49,160
Speaker 1: guess of like you know, you work hard and you'll

1311
01:19:49,160 --> 01:19:54,960
Speaker 1: be successful and without taking into consideration all the forces

1312
01:19:55,080 --> 01:19:58,720
Speaker 1: of like if that were true, then Frankie wouldn't be

1313
01:19:58,720 --> 01:20:01,439
Speaker 1: in this situation because she literally worked at a bank

1314
01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:04,599
Speaker 1: and she had that those opportunities taken from her for

1315
01:20:04,680 --> 01:20:08,679
Speaker 1: no reason. And I don't know. Yeah, it definitely starts

1316
01:20:08,720 --> 01:20:12,479
Speaker 1: some interesting conversations. And we're pretty sure that he made

1317
01:20:12,520 --> 01:20:17,240
Speaker 1: Stoney come and we're glad for that as well. Yeah,

1318
01:20:17,320 --> 01:20:20,000
Speaker 1: and the fact that he doesn't really you know, in

1319
01:20:20,040 --> 01:20:22,559
Speaker 1: the end, when she just like drives away and she's

1320
01:20:22,600 --> 01:20:25,599
Speaker 1: just like in Mexico, like he's like smiling when he's

1321
01:20:25,640 --> 01:20:28,120
Speaker 1: off the phone. He's just like, yes, this is fine,

1322
01:20:28,400 --> 01:20:31,519
Speaker 1: Like I like, I like that he doesn't really do

1323
01:20:31,600 --> 01:20:34,839
Speaker 1: anything extra like try to make their last conversation bad

1324
01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:36,960
Speaker 1: or like ask her to come back, Like he's like, no,

1325
01:20:37,080 --> 01:20:42,840
Speaker 1: she's gone, yeah, which is like I mean the ending

1326
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:46,479
Speaker 1: shot man like, maybe maybe it's a little corny, but

1327
01:20:46,520 --> 01:20:49,200
Speaker 1: I thought it was so beautiful. I thought it was great.

1328
01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:52,600
Speaker 1: And even the the montage at the end, You're like,

1329
01:20:52,640 --> 01:20:55,760
Speaker 1: this is very nineties, but I was reflecting on all

1330
01:20:55,800 --> 01:21:04,000
Speaker 1: the memories and all and crying. Yeah, very pure. I've

1331
01:21:04,000 --> 01:21:06,840
Speaker 1: heard so much in the last twenty minutes of this movie.

1332
01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:11,120
Speaker 1: It is just like everything happens. Um. I don't like that.

1333
01:21:11,320 --> 01:21:14,200
Speaker 1: It's like implied that the cop is like doing her

1334
01:21:14,280 --> 01:21:19,280
Speaker 1: this huge favor by allowing her to survive and have

1335
01:21:19,400 --> 01:21:21,920
Speaker 1: to start a life in a place where she knows

1336
01:21:21,960 --> 01:21:26,160
Speaker 1: nobody in order to survive. But I do I do

1337
01:21:26,439 --> 01:21:29,320
Speaker 1: like that she you know, I mean, she's just like

1338
01:21:29,400 --> 01:21:32,800
Speaker 1: so how long this movie takes place over the course

1339
01:21:32,840 --> 01:21:37,880
Speaker 1: of what like maybe a few weeks. It's like a

1340
01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:41,840
Speaker 1: Stony is a miracle, Like she has to take on

1341
01:21:41,920 --> 01:21:46,480
Speaker 1: everything at once and has to push forward, you know, regardless,

1342
01:21:46,520 --> 01:21:50,360
Speaker 1: and she's still, she's dealing with the grief of her

1343
01:21:50,520 --> 01:21:54,320
Speaker 1: father being murdered by police because he had the same

1344
01:21:54,360 --> 01:22:00,280
Speaker 1: haircut as the actual perpetrator of the robbery. She's dealing

1345
01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:04,840
Speaker 1: with being coerced into sex by this creep just so

1346
01:22:04,880 --> 01:22:07,840
Speaker 1: she can get money to pay for her brother's tuition.

1347
01:22:08,520 --> 01:22:13,839
Speaker 1: Like she's dealing with so much, and just the gravity

1348
01:22:13,920 --> 01:22:16,200
Speaker 1: of everything. I don't think we've mentioned yet, but in

1349
01:22:16,240 --> 01:22:19,639
Speaker 1: a lot of the it didn't hit for me until

1350
01:22:19,760 --> 01:22:22,879
Speaker 1: about halfway through the movie that, like, the historical context

1351
01:22:22,920 --> 01:22:25,360
Speaker 1: of this movie is also it takes place in l

1352
01:22:25,400 --> 01:22:29,040
Speaker 1: A two years after Rodney King or no sorry, four

1353
01:22:29,080 --> 01:22:32,599
Speaker 1: years after Rodney King, and two years after the Violent

1354
01:22:32,640 --> 01:22:36,439
Speaker 1: Crime Control Act from Clinton, So it's like, also, it

1355
01:22:36,479 --> 01:22:40,280
Speaker 1: feels very I don't I mean a lot of Usually

1356
01:22:40,280 --> 01:22:42,240
Speaker 1: when movies take place in l A, you're just like, Okay,

1357
01:22:42,240 --> 01:22:44,920
Speaker 1: they couldn't afford to shoot somewhere else. But in this movie,

1358
01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:48,280
Speaker 1: it is very intentional that it's happening in l A

1359
01:22:48,280 --> 01:22:54,320
Speaker 1: at this time, and it informs a lot of what's happening, Yeah,

1360
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:58,559
Speaker 1: any any any stuff anything else? Uh, you guys wanted

1361
01:22:58,560 --> 01:23:01,759
Speaker 1: to hit on. Well, one less thing about Stoney Um.

1362
01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:05,080
Speaker 1: She cuts all her hair off at the end, probably

1363
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:08,400
Speaker 1: mostly so that she will not be as easily recognizable

1364
01:23:08,479 --> 01:23:11,240
Speaker 1: by anyone who might be looking for her. UM. But

1365
01:23:11,320 --> 01:23:16,600
Speaker 1: she does become the baldest woman in charge by doing that. UM.

1366
01:23:18,280 --> 01:23:20,720
Speaker 1: I had one more. Okay, so I this is just

1367
01:23:20,800 --> 01:23:26,439
Speaker 1: a question for for the Zoom room. UM. There were murmurs,

1368
01:23:26,439 --> 01:23:32,680
Speaker 1: I guess last year of this movie being remade or sequeled,

1369
01:23:32,760 --> 01:23:38,200
Speaker 1: potentially with Ray in a production, possibly writing a role,

1370
01:23:39,040 --> 01:23:43,840
Speaker 1: And there were a lot of takes on Clarkesha Kent's piece.

1371
01:23:44,360 --> 01:23:47,240
Speaker 1: UM was one of them in Entertainment Weekly, arguing that

1372
01:23:47,280 --> 01:23:49,880
Speaker 1: this movie does not need to be remade. Um, it

1373
01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:52,000
Speaker 1: was made correctly the first time. But I guess I

1374
01:23:52,040 --> 01:23:54,599
Speaker 1: was just, I was just I don't know. Is is

1375
01:23:55,439 --> 01:23:57,960
Speaker 1: I sort of I don't, I don't know. I don't

1376
01:23:58,240 --> 01:24:00,080
Speaker 1: think it needs to be remade, but I think we

1377
01:24:00,120 --> 01:24:03,719
Speaker 1: should just have more movies with black women, Like Yeah,

1378
01:24:03,960 --> 01:24:05,600
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't really see the point of this

1379
01:24:05,760 --> 01:24:08,439
Speaker 1: being remade. I just think that the yeah, there should

1380
01:24:08,439 --> 01:24:12,920
Speaker 1: be more yeah yeah, Especially just watching it right now

1381
01:24:13,080 --> 01:24:17,040
Speaker 1: in this moment, so much of the stories feels so

1382
01:24:17,280 --> 01:24:20,720
Speaker 1: incredibly relevant that it doesn't feel like there needs to

1383
01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:25,800
Speaker 1: be any kind of like update in spite of kit

1384
01:24:25,880 --> 01:24:33,280
Speaker 1: Lan here right, Yeah, what a bizarre person she is? Um?

1385
01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:38,679
Speaker 1: Does anyone have any other thoughts? That was all I had. Yeah,

1386
01:24:38,760 --> 01:24:42,680
Speaker 1: I mean I just think people should watch it. I'm

1387
01:24:42,680 --> 01:24:45,320
Speaker 1: glad I finally did ye. Does it pass the Bechdel

1388
01:24:45,360 --> 01:24:49,280
Speaker 1: test of course? Yeah. They're talking about robbing banks, They're

1389
01:24:49,280 --> 01:24:53,759
Speaker 1: talking about their lives, they're talking about all manner of things,

1390
01:24:54,320 --> 01:24:58,840
Speaker 1: constantly everything. Um. And it also it passes many of

1391
01:24:58,880 --> 01:25:03,160
Speaker 1: the other tests, including the duverna A test, the Vito

1392
01:25:03,240 --> 01:25:06,080
Speaker 1: Russo test for sure. So as far as our Nipple scale,

1393
01:25:06,200 --> 01:25:11,320
Speaker 1: in which we examine the movie through an intersectional feminist lens,

1394
01:25:12,080 --> 01:25:16,520
Speaker 1: I want to give this probably like a four because

1395
01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:22,720
Speaker 1: it does so well to characterize these four main characters,

1396
01:25:22,920 --> 01:25:28,679
Speaker 1: show the nuances of their friendship, show the nuances of

1397
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:35,439
Speaker 1: their situation, their desperation, the cycle of poverty that they're

1398
01:25:35,479 --> 01:25:38,240
Speaker 1: in that they're kind of helpless to get out of.

1399
01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:41,880
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's a story about systemic racism

1400
01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:46,880
Speaker 1: and sexism holding these characters back and limiting their options,

1401
01:25:47,000 --> 01:25:50,920
Speaker 1: and for them the option becomes crime. You know, not

1402
01:25:51,000 --> 01:25:54,720
Speaker 1: because they're inherently criminals or bad people, or because they

1403
01:25:54,760 --> 01:25:58,840
Speaker 1: want to commit crime, but because they have no other choice. Again,

1404
01:25:59,120 --> 01:26:02,040
Speaker 1: as black women, the odds are stacked against them, and

1405
01:26:02,400 --> 01:26:06,920
Speaker 1: desperate times call for desperate measures, and unfortunately for these characters,

1406
01:26:07,600 --> 01:26:10,720
Speaker 1: the law catches up with them and several of them

1407
01:26:10,760 --> 01:26:16,120
Speaker 1: are killed, which is sadly reflective of many black people's lives,

1408
01:26:16,479 --> 01:26:20,559
Speaker 1: where they're severely punished for just trying to survive. And

1409
01:26:20,640 --> 01:26:24,720
Speaker 1: the systems in place, you know, systems being law enforcement,

1410
01:26:25,439 --> 01:26:31,080
Speaker 1: the workforce, economic structures, etcetera. These systems are incapable or

1411
01:26:31,160 --> 01:26:36,599
Speaker 1: unwilling to acknowledge or understand that the systems are designed

1412
01:26:36,680 --> 01:26:39,920
Speaker 1: to oppress different groups of people, such as black people,

1413
01:26:40,320 --> 01:26:45,080
Speaker 1: black women. And I think that this story really effectively

1414
01:26:45,479 --> 01:26:52,080
Speaker 1: tackles those themes and and that reality. Um. And you know,

1415
01:26:52,120 --> 01:26:57,479
Speaker 1: the fact that you have queer visibility on screen is great. Um,

1416
01:26:57,520 --> 01:27:01,960
Speaker 1: a queer black woman especially something that I've seen very

1417
01:27:02,000 --> 01:27:06,200
Speaker 1: little of in popular media and just media in general,

1418
01:27:06,920 --> 01:27:11,160
Speaker 1: especially from the nineties, So that was pretty remarkable for

1419
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:18,879
Speaker 1: a mainstream studio movie. UM. I guess the main grape

1420
01:27:19,000 --> 01:27:23,639
Speaker 1: is the over sympathy that the movie extends to the

1421
01:27:24,160 --> 01:27:27,439
Speaker 1: friendly white cop who just wants to help. And it's

1422
01:27:27,479 --> 01:27:29,519
Speaker 1: like if like Jordane like you said, like, if that

1423
01:27:29,560 --> 01:27:31,960
Speaker 1: were true, if you wanted to help in any way,

1424
01:27:32,600 --> 01:27:38,320
Speaker 1: he would like defund himself and you know, gives gives

1425
01:27:38,479 --> 01:27:42,200
Speaker 1: his salary to the way. I mean he could he

1426
01:27:42,240 --> 01:27:46,120
Speaker 1: could have spent all that time investigating that he spent investigating,

1427
01:27:46,240 --> 01:27:51,080
Speaker 1: like making sure that these women were okay, right, which

1428
01:27:51,120 --> 01:27:52,800
Speaker 1: is what he claims to be doing the whole time,

1429
01:27:53,439 --> 01:27:56,240
Speaker 1: But he's not. So I'll give it four nipples and

1430
01:27:56,439 --> 01:28:02,160
Speaker 1: I'll give one to Stony Frankie Cleo and uh t

1431
01:28:02,320 --> 01:28:05,400
Speaker 1: t um, I will I'll go the same way I'll

1432
01:28:05,439 --> 01:28:09,479
Speaker 1: do for nipples, uh and Pebacking off what you've already said,

1433
01:28:09,520 --> 01:28:11,920
Speaker 1: I would also say I wish that there were more

1434
01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:15,160
Speaker 1: black women in high level creative roles on this movie

1435
01:28:15,200 --> 01:28:18,320
Speaker 1: and that the movie was benefited from, you know, maybe

1436
01:28:18,360 --> 01:28:22,960
Speaker 1: not hiring Kate Lanier Mrs I'm white, but am I

1437
01:28:23,560 --> 01:28:29,479
Speaker 1: um so I understand that it's I mean, we have

1438
01:28:29,520 --> 01:28:33,360
Speaker 1: like f Gary Gray, we who is like truly a legend,

1439
01:28:33,400 --> 01:28:36,400
Speaker 1: and like, we have a lot of wonderful people in

1440
01:28:36,439 --> 01:28:39,880
Speaker 1: creative roles. But there you know, this is a movie

1441
01:28:40,000 --> 01:28:43,800
Speaker 1: that is centered on black women and there should be

1442
01:28:44,200 --> 01:28:46,840
Speaker 1: um black women behind the camera as well. Also, Yeah,

1443
01:28:46,920 --> 01:28:50,840
Speaker 1: the weird cop thing, and also just the failure to

1444
01:28:51,120 --> 01:28:56,519
Speaker 1: characterize Detective Waller. Uh in any way, it's just a

1445
01:28:56,640 --> 01:29:00,800
Speaker 1: dumb decision, I thought. But the performances this movie are

1446
01:29:01,280 --> 01:29:04,400
Speaker 1: fucking incredible. The soundtrack I don't think we've brought up yet,

1447
01:29:04,439 --> 01:29:09,200
Speaker 1: but it's fucking incredible. And um yeah, required viewing for

1448
01:29:09,240 --> 01:29:15,519
Speaker 1: everybody for nipples one to um each of the four leads. Jordan,

1449
01:29:15,600 --> 01:29:26,200
Speaker 1: how about you? Um? Sure, yes, four nipples arousing? Sure, sure,

1450
01:29:27,280 --> 01:29:29,280
Speaker 1: I know you're probably tired. It's quite late where you

1451
01:29:29,439 --> 01:29:34,680
Speaker 1: are right now. Yeah, it is late, right. I was like,

1452
01:29:34,680 --> 01:29:36,840
Speaker 1: oh no, we've been recording for so long. Well, Jordan,

1453
01:29:36,920 --> 01:29:39,800
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us in this discussion.

1454
01:29:40,479 --> 01:29:45,760
Speaker 1: Where can people follow your stuff? Follow your social media, etcetera.

1455
01:29:46,240 --> 01:29:48,640
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at j O U

1456
01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:53,160
Speaker 1: R d A y E N and also that on Instagram,

1457
01:29:53,320 --> 01:29:57,720
Speaker 1: and uh, you can find my rating everywhere. You know.

1458
01:29:57,920 --> 01:30:03,200
Speaker 1: I've written for like Vote, Gung Q and a V club,

1459
01:30:04,439 --> 01:30:07,120
Speaker 1: and I write for bitch Media a lot. That's a

1460
01:30:07,160 --> 01:30:12,160
Speaker 1: great website. Can't can't endorse bitch Media enough. So yeah,

1461
01:30:12,360 --> 01:30:14,519
Speaker 1: we've I think I think we've we've cited your work

1462
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:16,400
Speaker 1: a number of times on this show before to the

1463
01:30:16,400 --> 01:30:19,120
Speaker 1: point where it's like, why has Darting not simply been

1464
01:30:19,120 --> 01:30:24,200
Speaker 1: on the show. Thank you so much for being here. Yeah,

1465
01:30:24,280 --> 01:30:27,479
Speaker 1: and listen to Bad Romance podcast Oh yeah, please do

1466
01:30:27,600 --> 01:30:31,080
Speaker 1: listen to Bad Romance podcasts. It's good. You know it's good.

1467
01:30:31,160 --> 01:30:36,200
Speaker 1: Brone's good, it's good. Hell yeah. Um, you can follow us.

1468
01:30:36,200 --> 01:30:40,879
Speaker 1: It's on Twitter and Instagram. Um. We've got our Patreon

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Speaker 1: ak Matron. It's five dollars a month and it gives

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Speaker 1: you two bonus episodes every month, plus access to the

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Speaker 1: entire back catalog. We've got our Tea Public Store, t

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Speaker 1: public dot com, slash the Bectel Cast for all your

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Speaker 1: merchandising needs. Thanks for listening and U We'll be back

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Speaker 1: next week. By a