Speaker 1: School of Humans. This show follows the investigation of serial
Speaker 1: murders and contains material that may be disturbing. Listener discretion advised.
Speaker 2: Late October twenty twelve, the trees were just beginning to bud.
Speaker 2: A series of homicides were now sending shockwaves through the
Speaker 2: small town of Krugerstorp, South Africa. The local papers run
Speaker 2: stories about satanic murders, citing police reports of brutal, seemingly
Speaker 2: ceremonial scenes. No charges were ever filed against Ria Grunevald,
Speaker 2: but as the trees blossomed, so did the doubts and
Speaker 2: the hearts and minds of Rhea's friends and confidants. Rhea
Speaker 2: couldn't leave her house without being harassed, so she used
Speaker 2: her time in isolation to repair her relationship with her son, Joshua.
Speaker 2: Rhea's years of devotion to Cecilia left Joshua feeling neglected
Speaker 2: and resentful. Rhea felt determined to bridge the divide between them. Coincidentally,
Speaker 2: that same October, Joshua became the latest fixation for Cecilia Stein.
Speaker 2: Since revenge against Ria was her primary goal, she could
Speaker 2: find no better target for her wrath. By this time,
Speaker 2: Luke the infiltrator was being primed to officially become a
Speaker 2: member of Electus Perdeis. He was spending a lot of
Speaker 2: time with Cecilia and Zach and the others. Luke's primary
Speaker 2: residence was out of town, but since he had worked
Speaker 2: in Kruger's door, he liked to stay with his friends
Speaker 2: Zach and Michaela. The three had become close. Luke had
Speaker 2: also been an acquaintance of Natasha Berger and Joy Burnside.
Speaker 3: I was murdered. I couldn't and I looked. I didn't
Speaker 3: have to part with it because it feels like everybody
Speaker 3: in ron Jews keeping money.
Speaker 2: Believing that Zach was devastated, Luke stuck around to help
Speaker 2: his friend grieve the loss of his wife, even if
Speaker 2: it meant staying in the same house where she was killed.
Speaker 2: Luke found Zach to be strangely unaffected by his wife's murder.
Speaker 3: That the man didn't even cry about his wife.
Speaker 2: Everyone had loved Michaela, Luke concluded. In her absence, Luke
Speaker 2: found himself slowly drawn into Cecilia's orbit. Then one day
Speaker 2: she popped the question.
Speaker 3: She asked me, do you think zackscribable of murder?
Speaker 2: Luke had growing doubts about Zach, but not enough to
Speaker 2: label him a murderer.
Speaker 3: Saw below. I don't know, I don't think so, I
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 2: Cecilia assured him that Zach was a loyal soldier in
Speaker 2: her army, willing to do whatever it took to carry
Speaker 2: out God's word.
Speaker 3: So she told me about how he killed Pendson with
Speaker 3: the X namon started every care program.
Speaker 2: Right before his unbelieving eyes, it re enacted the murder.
Speaker 2: Luke was horrified. His worst fears confirmed his friend Zach
Speaker 2: was indeed a killer, and now Luke was suddenly profoundly
Speaker 2: scared for his own life. He'd gotten too close to Cecilia,
Speaker 2: and like Mikayla, he also knew too much.
Speaker 3: And then the whole things started to make sense to you.
Speaker 3: What's going on and all every boys.
Speaker 2: Involved from School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. This is
Speaker 2: Queen Havoc and her murder cult. I'm your host, Kurt Kubachak,
Speaker 2: Episode five, Never Can You Run. One night in Cecilia's small,
Speaker 2: dimly little apartment, Zach Valentine tells the group he's received
Speaker 2: a sign, a vision just like the one Cecilia had
Speaker 2: about Natasha Ria Grunivald's son, Joshua should be their next target.
Speaker 2: Then Marinda chimes in. Turns out she also received a
Speaker 2: sign about Joshua's future on Earth. This tract with the plans,
Speaker 2: Cecilia already started plotting to hit Ria Grunivald where it
Speaker 2: would hurt the most.
Speaker 3: So they cornered me, and they say that I must
Speaker 3: be Zach's right hand man. I must help him to
Speaker 3: murder Joshua.
Speaker 2: In a matter of months, Zach had evolved from husband,
Speaker 2: friend and frequent host to a cold, calculating murderer, and
Speaker 2: Luke was being groomed to join their sadistic form of worship.
Speaker 2: To Cecilia's steying, I keep.
Speaker 3: Myself cool that in the inside I was ripped the
Speaker 3: thought and day's night time to go with cry and stuff.
Speaker 3: Then I must get into this guide, thinking and praying
Speaker 3: every night how to avoid this.
Speaker 2: Luke was having a crisis, realizing that his initial impulse
Speaker 2: to infiltrate the group was a bit naive. He placed
Speaker 2: himself in the crosshairs of real killers, and by the
Speaker 2: time he came face to face with this reality, the
Speaker 2: one in which he might very likely be murdered, he
Speaker 2: was in too deep. Now he was spending his nights
Speaker 2: in Zach's passenger seat, stalking their next victim and trying
Speaker 2: desperately to think of ways to thwart Zach.
Speaker 3: Every night they went through and spied on this guy.
Speaker 3: Are we What's talk? A couple of times, driving to
Speaker 3: his house, and then he played volleyball day in Randburgh.
Speaker 2: Jana Marx's book describes EPD placing hidden cameras in the
Speaker 2: trees outside Joshua's home. One evening, Zach trailed him into
Speaker 2: a bar and slipped something in his drink. J Zach's dismay.
Speaker 2: It seemed to have no effect, but they were getting
Speaker 2: closer and the walls were closing in on.
Speaker 3: Luke to Nithis tonight, They're gonna kill him and then
Speaker 3: I'll just come up with excuses or all do anything
Speaker 3: in my pala to something.
Speaker 2: When Joshua's active, outgoing lifestyle made him hard to track,
Speaker 2: EPD decided to try the same tactic they'd used with
Speaker 2: Ben Dixon. They would make an appointment. Luke made the
Speaker 2: first call to Internet Solutions, the company Joshua worked for,
Speaker 2: and requested a house call, but Luke couldn't get him
Speaker 2: to nail down a time, which makes sense. Joshua worked
Speaker 2: in systems, I not a help desk. So Marinda tried next.
Speaker 2: She said she needed help connecting her home WiFi. Joshua
Speaker 2: was polite, but instead of agreen to come over, he
Speaker 2: referred her to one of his peers. As EPD ramped
Speaker 2: up its tactics, Luke kept trying to stall.
Speaker 3: I was doing everything in my power that I've worked
Speaker 3: with people. Luckily they believed all the bullshit I feeded them.
Speaker 3: It's almost like a split personality in the day when
Speaker 3: I'm with him, I'm this type of person, but I'm
Speaker 3: myself in.
Speaker 2: Horrible Meanwhile, Joshua had become a bit suspicious something about
Speaker 2: this onslaught of house call requests felled off. Luke wanted
Speaker 2: no part in the murder, so he tried to get
Speaker 2: out of it by having an honest conversation with Cecilia.
Speaker 2: Luke thought he was dealing with a rational mind, and
Speaker 2: how do you think Cecilia responded well? She returned to
Speaker 2: scripture reminded them that they were God's soldiers, following in
Speaker 2: the footsteps of King David. Luke later testified in court
Speaker 2: that zach Once threatened his life After Luke questioned the
Speaker 2: way Cecilia and EPD conducted themselves, he just warm.
Speaker 3: You know, I started thinking like his wife ing it up.
Speaker 2: Now, both Luke and Joshua's only hope for survival depended
Speaker 2: on Luke's bravery. He desperately needed to collect evidence to
Speaker 2: prove they were planning this murder. Then he could go
Speaker 2: to the police, but he had to do it before
Speaker 2: the hammers, knives, and axes came out for him.
Speaker 3: I didn't know what to do anymore. I just paid
Speaker 3: and I asked the Lord. It gave me strength and
Speaker 3: everything and league meet because I'm gonna get caught. I'm
Speaker 3: gonna die like Makaya.
Speaker 2: Court hearings revealed that Cecilia ordered LaRue to dig three graves,
Speaker 2: all in different locations. That way, EPD had options for
Speaker 2: where to bury Joshua's body. Luke, the infiltrator, was in
Speaker 2: over his head.
Speaker 3: You are so scared, but you can't sherwance. She needed
Speaker 3: Suffici reaching in your insight, because if they can get
Speaker 3: a glimpse of something, especially as a cilio, is that
Speaker 3: it's game over for you.
Speaker 2: All systems were go, and Luke wanted out despite his
Speaker 2: ever present fears, Luke kept searching for evidence to incriminate
Speaker 2: the members of EPD. He needed hard proof. Luckily, finding
Speaker 2: it didn't take too long.
Speaker 3: The person that murdered McKayla, who Wonner White a we
Speaker 3: equipland and I found that thing Zacks couplet.
Speaker 2: It was time Luke went to the police.
Speaker 3: We ne got very hot. That's when I wented it.
Speaker 2: The tip of that detective is Colonel the Yager, the
Speaker 2: one who was so fixated on the Satanic angle. The
Speaker 2: Yager was Luke's only contact in the Cruise Door Police
Speaker 2: at this time.
Speaker 3: So I met this colonel one day and he gave
Speaker 3: me a type recorder because if they can get the
Speaker 3: confession on tape, it's a media erased.
Speaker 2: It's now December twenty twelve, summer in South Africa. Dusk.
Speaker 2: Luke is now working under cover for the police, summoning
Speaker 2: all the courage he can muster. His plan is to
Speaker 2: record the killers from EPD, get them to confess to
Speaker 2: all four murders, Natasha and Joy, Pastor Reginald Bendixon and MICHAELA. Valentine.
Speaker 2: Once he gets them on tape, he'll step outside of
Speaker 2: Cassana Flats and signal to the police. At least those
Speaker 2: are the orders Luke's been given.
Speaker 3: I had a pocketing my least rom of my biker jacket.
Speaker 3: The recorder was face.
Speaker 2: He arrives at Cecilia's place. Nothing out of the order.
Speaker 2: They meet their regularly. Luke plays it cool at first.
Speaker 2: He has a plan to get them talking.
Speaker 3: I leaded this whole conversation, and we spoke about everything.
Speaker 2: You know, Luke reaches the subject of murder. It's a
Speaker 2: risky move. He asks how they did it. True to
Speaker 2: their nature as amateur cutthroats, Cecilia, Zach, and Mirinda openly confess,
Speaker 2: boasting about the kills.
Speaker 3: What everyone day. I got everybody to confess about the
Speaker 3: murders and everything, and I planned the next murder.
Speaker 2: That's right, all four murders, and the plans to kill
Speaker 2: Rhea's son Joshua. As the night wears on, a bad
Speaker 2: feeling creeps over Luke. This shroud of anxiety and adrenaline
Speaker 2: peeks as he looks around the room and he realizes
Speaker 2: Zach is missing.
Speaker 3: While I was talking to Cecilia, we saw this appeared.
Speaker 3: And now are they work? And you just a little voice,
Speaker 3: he said, Bryan. He just just toat your stuff and go,
Speaker 3: Just get out of here.
Speaker 2: Luke immediately wonders, did I ask too many questions? Is
Speaker 2: a silly onomy? Is Zach out there waiting for me
Speaker 2: in the dark?
Speaker 3: No, I knew, what's my time?
Speaker 2: I need to go now, Luke makes up a reason
Speaker 2: for why he has to bow out for the night.
Speaker 2: With the tape still rolling in his pocket, Luke steps outside.
Speaker 2: You have expects a flurry of police activity, but the
Speaker 2: night is quiet.
Speaker 3: Now wein' outside leaves the y and he was indeed Haldin.
Speaker 3: I added one and one to gear.
Speaker 2: Luke stands at the top of the Casana Flats complex steps.
Speaker 2: His breath quickens. On his way down the stairs, he
Speaker 2: glimpses a sign that reads danger. It's a private property sign.
Speaker 2: He's read it a million times, but this time it's different.
Speaker 2: That's when Luke hears that little voice once again.
Speaker 3: I turned from my life. I was almost murdered th line.
Speaker 2: First, he had to go back to Zach and Michaela's
Speaker 2: to get his stuff, but he only had his motorcycle.
Speaker 3: So I got on my bike. I'll drive his Zack's house.
Speaker 2: Fear rushes through him as he steps in his Zach's apartment.
Speaker 2: Zach isn't there, thank god. Luke springs into action, calling
Speaker 2: a friend to come get him. While he grabs what
Speaker 2: he can took.
Speaker 3: Almost stuff like the get he like a split segund.
Speaker 2: In his panic, he can't seem to find his ID
Speaker 2: card and some other personal documents. Could Zach have stolen them?
Speaker 2: Anything is possible with discord. Soon his friend pulls up
Speaker 2: and Luke sneaks out the back door. He jumps in
Speaker 2: the car and frantically tells his friend to drive fast.
Speaker 2: He's alive and that's what matters.
Speaker 3: When I just got out of the gate into the bush.
Speaker 3: The worth the costs coming in? You know where mad
Speaker 3: your time course Montan.
Speaker 2: After Michaela's murder, Detective Suset Kenotse was brought onto the case.
Speaker 2: With her background in the occult related Crimes unit, the
Speaker 2: department thought it was only apt for her to evaluate
Speaker 2: these suspected Satanic slayings and lend her expertise. Unlike Colonel
Speaker 2: di Yager and Captain ben Vick, Detective Susette didn't put
Speaker 2: much faith in the notion that Satanists were killing innocent people.
Speaker 2: She thought it was far more mundane than that. But
Speaker 2: then a strange meeting with Ria. Grunivald challenged that suspicion
Speaker 2: this happened before she had been fully briefed on Michaela's murder.
Speaker 2: She wanted to hear Rhea's side of things. Rhea requested
Speaker 2: that they speak in a public place. The location the diner,
Speaker 2: the same place where Cecilia had threatened Riha months before.
Speaker 2: This time, Rhea brought along a group the parishioners tact
Speaker 2: as spiritual bodyguards.
Speaker 1: I were sitting like in a half circle around the table,
Speaker 1: and obviously I found that kind of odd. She told
Speaker 1: me they are praying because Celia is a which she
Speaker 1: can hear everything that Ria says. So while these people
Speaker 1: sit there praying, Celia will not be able to year.
Speaker 2: Ria was wary of Detective suseid you could hear.
Speaker 1: She trusted no one because Celia installed this in her.
Speaker 2: Ria was traumatized. I mean, who wouldn't be. All Ria
Speaker 2: could do was lean on her faith.
Speaker 1: She asked me the question, are you a Christian? I said, well,
Speaker 1: it's it's irrelevant what religion I am. I'm here to
Speaker 1: help you. There was murders that's taken place and apparently
Speaker 1: you can help solve them. So it's irrelevant what religion
Speaker 1: I am. But okay, I will tell you I am
Speaker 1: a Christian. But it's good nothing to do with this.
Speaker 2: Whether the Satanists the police were after were real or imagined.
Speaker 2: Until Detective Susette confronted them, the police department would continue
Speaker 2: to fumble justice, so she would have to face the
Speaker 2: religious implications of these crimes objectively and head on. Lucky
Speaker 2: for the people of Krueger's store, Detective Susette is not
Speaker 2: someone who shies away from challenges. She's one of the
Speaker 2: few who willingly runs towards them. In this high crime area,
Speaker 2: the SAPs was overwhelmed by new cases popping up every day,
Speaker 2: so it was weeks before Detective Susette Canozze was even
Speaker 2: briefed on the crimes. Finally, she was called in for
Speaker 2: a meeting with superiors on the police force to discuss
Speaker 2: the case. Colonel de Yager was also at this meeting.
Speaker 2: He sat next to her in the department's conference room
Speaker 2: and insisted.
Speaker 1: This is satanism. This is satanism because there is no
Speaker 1: blood on the scene and they took all the blood.
Speaker 2: And I was like, what as we heard last episode.
Speaker 2: Colonel the Yager thought that the quantity of blood found
Speaker 2: at the scene didn't match the severity of Reginald Ben
Speaker 2: Dixon's wounds, which to him implied the killers collected the
Speaker 2: blood and drank it or used it in some satanic ritual.
Speaker 2: His theory didn't sit well with Detective Susette.
Speaker 1: This guy's lying on the grass. What are you saying?
Speaker 1: And I said, sorry, are you? And he says, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm Colonel the Yacher. He says he's the expert on satanism.
Speaker 1: And I thought, huh, okay, sorry, where are you from?
Speaker 1: In my thirteen years of occult related crimes, I have
Speaker 1: never met him, never knew about him. Nothing. What he
Speaker 1: is saying is absolute.
Speaker 3: Bullshit.
Speaker 1: Can I say that.
Speaker 2: Detective Susantte had actual science on her side. A blood
Speaker 2: expert she brought in agreed that the blood had clearly
Speaker 2: been absorbed by the earth and grass the victim was
Speaker 2: lying on, which blew holes into Yager's theories of satanism
Speaker 2: and witchcraft.
Speaker 1: And ask him where did you hear this? And he
Speaker 1: says no, He's spoken to Conel Yonker, and obviously he
Speaker 1: does not know my connection to Colonel Yonker.
Speaker 2: Colonel Yonker, founder of the Occult related Crimes unit, was
Speaker 2: practically family to Susette.
Speaker 1: And I said, okay, just hang on a minute, and
Speaker 1: I went outside fund Colonel Yonker. I said, Colonel, who's
Speaker 1: Connel the orcher? He says, I don't know. I said, no, man,
Speaker 1: He said he's spoken to you and gave him a
Speaker 1: little of the Krugeys doorposis, Oh, that's correct. A guy
Speaker 1: phoned me. He says, listen, sir, I know nothing about
Speaker 1: the occult and I'm this guys and I need to
Speaker 1: get a cross calls in.
Speaker 2: This Detective Susette was wholly convinced if the cops ever
Speaker 2: wanted to solve the growing number of murders in Krugersdorp
Speaker 2: and all over the country that have to give up
Speaker 2: the obsession with Satanism, they were sensationalizing these crimes. But
Speaker 2: perhaps that was on purpose. You see. The deeper Susette
Speaker 2: waited into the serial murder investigation, the more she began
Speaker 2: to notice how incompetent both the Yager and van Vic
Speaker 2: were as officers. For example, remember how Mirinda's fingerprints were
Speaker 2: found on the newspaper on Rhea's porch. Captain Vin Vick
Speaker 2: proposed at the time that the fingerprints could have been planted.
Speaker 2: He said prosecutors were concerned that Rhea could have attempted
Speaker 2: to frame Mirinda. That was his claim then and he
Speaker 2: maintained the explanation years later when speaking to us.
Speaker 4: The reason for them not placing the case was the
Speaker 4: fact that the prosecutors said that Mirinda and Rea Runavald
Speaker 4: to the neighbors, and the thoughts of the prosecutor at
Speaker 4: the time was that real Runivald could have taken the
Speaker 4: paper from Mirenda's husband and planted it as evidence.
Speaker 2: To framer, Wow, that's a bit of a reach. However,
Speaker 2: according to Detective Canotes, Mirinda was released from police custody
Speaker 2: for a procedural bungle. She still gets frustrated when she
Speaker 2: recalls how it all went down. Ria could have framed Mirinda.
Speaker 2: To her, that sounded like, well.
Speaker 1: All shit, that's not how Mirenda got off. I can
Speaker 1: show you look in the.
Speaker 2: Doggets That's what Bamvik said to us.
Speaker 1: No, he's lying. He just doesn't want to bring that up.
Speaker 1: What happened was Van Vike wrote the wrong case number down,
Speaker 1: it went to courte and when it came in Courte
Speaker 1: Mirenda couldn't be placed in the skies because this guy's
Speaker 1: was something about theft or something, and I said, but
Speaker 1: she be connected to this guys. Van Weik wrote the
Speaker 1: wrong number down and she was let go. That is
Speaker 1: what happened.
Speaker 2: With Detective Susette. Officially at the Helm, the police would
Speaker 2: be forced to stop chasing imaginary Satanists and it wouldn't
Speaker 2: be long before she gathered enough evidence to scare EPD
Speaker 2: in hiding.
Speaker 4: It was after the Michaila story the police, you know,
Speaker 4: sort of came onto the scene and they were very suspicious.
Speaker 2: While the hysteria of the nineties has long passed, the
Speaker 2: fear of Satanism still remains in the ether. Yet, according
Speaker 2: to Detective Susette, Canose, journalist Jana Marx, Detective Ben Boysen,
Speaker 2: Colonel Kobus Yonker, and almost everyone else we spoke to
Speaker 2: the fact that the police jumped to this conclusion that
Speaker 2: Satanists were behind the Grizzly murders only set the cops
Speaker 2: off course and in doing so placed far more lives
Speaker 2: in danger. But Whattyager's assessment entirely wrong. Cecilia claimed a
Speaker 2: lineage of witches and that she'd been possessed by Satan,
Speaker 2: even becoming his bride. Yet she gathered up a flock
Speaker 2: of Christians and made them believe that she was a
Speaker 2: vehicle for God's mission. It seems regardless of which side
Speaker 2: she was on, Cecilia had a bit of a Messiah complex.
Speaker 2: According to her, she had been tempted by Satan, and
Speaker 2: her followers were the way out of his grasp. This
Speaker 2: was the story. She told them that they were the
Speaker 2: key to her salvation, and delivering her from this temptation
Speaker 2: ensured all of them a special place in heaven. Together,
Speaker 2: they would make God's plans real, even if doing so
Speaker 2: men compromising all morals and going against their fellow humans.
Speaker 2: It's all extremely convol Cult leaders often keep details so
Speaker 2: vague that even their followers have trouble fully understanding what
Speaker 2: all is happening. She did this with the orphanage, the
Speaker 2: reasons for the murders, and even her own origin story.
Speaker 2: So we wanted to get to the bottom of her
Speaker 2: actual beliefs. Did she believe in anything at all? Or
Speaker 2: was this all simply a way to manipulate others for
Speaker 2: her personal gain. Was Satanism just a red herring used
Speaker 2: by Cecilia and maybe Diyager too to throw everyone off
Speaker 2: the scent or is it possible that what Cecilia was
Speaker 2: claiming was true? We asked Luke, who had a front
Speaker 2: row seat to her chaos. Was Cecilia ever actually a Satanist?
Speaker 3: Freely? Yeah, that's one of those.
Speaker 2: Bullship Rhea's mentor. The psychologist F. H. Haavinga agrees with
Speaker 2: Luke's assessment, havinga consulted the police on a cult and
Speaker 2: satanic cases for the majority of his career.
Speaker 1: This is not psyche, this is something else. And that's
Speaker 1: what I said.
Speaker 5: That was my advice to Colonel X, not knowing that
Speaker 5: Kuba jon Got said to him exactly the same.
Speaker 2: Journalist and author Jana Marx had similar opinions.
Speaker 5: I realized, I mean, I know Christianity, and CIA's idea
Speaker 5: of Christianity that she preached wasn't Christianity like Christians would know.
Speaker 5: It's almost a fabrication of Christianity. You know, there are
Speaker 5: different sects in Satanism. Which one is she following? And
Speaker 5: I realized, oh my goodness, she's she's following everything and nothing.
Speaker 5: She took a little bit from the earth. From there,
Speaker 5: she actually copied even American serial killers, a little bit
Speaker 5: of Charles Manson, you can see a bit of Sons
Speaker 5: of Samday, and she just called that whole thing Satanism.
Speaker 2: Cecilia has studied masters of manipulation, and she knew enough
Speaker 2: about the Bible to break together whatever she found to
Speaker 2: can't under the effect she was after her twisted form
Speaker 2: of faith created a shadowy kingdom, and Cecilia cast herself
Speaker 2: as the queen. And as Detective Susette discovered, this kingdom
Speaker 2: was built on some careful study.
Speaker 1: When we went to search the apartment, we had a warren.
Speaker 2: Early on in her investigation, Detective Susette was granted a
Speaker 2: search warrant based on her discussions with Rhea.
Speaker 1: I went into Cecilia's room, started looking. I came upon
Speaker 1: to Colonel Yonker's occult books that he wrote. It was
Speaker 1: hidden the two books.
Speaker 2: Suzette page through the books.
Speaker 1: I saw on certain pages these little notes made in
Speaker 1: it as if she ah this I can use, Okay,
Speaker 1: this I can use. It was like she needed info
Speaker 1: from the occult to present to the people for them
Speaker 1: to believe that she was actually a Satanist. And that
Speaker 1: was how I picked up, she knew a thing about
Speaker 1: the occult.
Speaker 2: Detectives Susette suspicions were confirmed when she spoke to Cecilia.
Speaker 1: Started asking her some questions about the occult, and she
Speaker 1: couldn't answer me.
Speaker 2: Then Cecilia told the detective that she had the power
Speaker 2: to shape shift, an ability left over from her days
Speaker 2: as a Satanist.
Speaker 1: And I said, oh, so you can shape shift. Then
Speaker 1: she said yes, she can. Said okay, let me put
Speaker 1: you into handcuffs and then you shape shift into a
Speaker 1: little bird for me, and then you come out of
Speaker 1: my handcuffs. And then suddenly she jumps at the back
Speaker 1: of her couch and she sits there and she chips
Speaker 1: like a little you know, a little chip sounds. Now
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, oh, you look ridiculous, And I said, Celia, really,
Speaker 1: I'm talking shape shifting. You're still a human. You know,
Speaker 1: you have to shape shift. You have to get out
Speaker 1: of my handcuffs. And she couldn't. Then even she told her,
Speaker 1: you look ridiculous, get off your couch and answer my question.
Speaker 2: That was when Cecilia's facade dropped. She stopped pretending and
Speaker 2: acted like nothing had happened. Su said, took off the
Speaker 2: handcuffs and continued her line of questioning she.
Speaker 1: Was never a Sitanist. Maybe she dabbled as a thirteen
Speaker 1: year old, what even, But she knew nothing about occult.
Speaker 1: She just was pertaining.
Speaker 2: Cecilia's only devotion was siss Cecilia. It was always about her, well,
Speaker 2: her and her other fixation.
Speaker 3: I just want to do this. There is no satan
Speaker 3: mess some understint. It's bad shooting, nothing to do with it.
Speaker 3: It's pure revenge. So she lost them act for so.
Speaker 2: I suppose the answer to our question is a resounding yes.
Speaker 2: The whole Satanism thing became a distraction because that's exactly
Speaker 2: what Cecilia wanted. That's how she avoided getting caught. But
Speaker 2: what about Colonel the Yager? Was he her willing ally?
Speaker 2: Perhaps he was afraid of her, Perhaps she paid him off.
Speaker 2: Perhaps he was just friends with Drees, Cecilia's husband, and
Speaker 2: was just doing his friend a favor. Whatever the case,
Speaker 2: something wasn't quite right. When questioned about his involvement after
Speaker 2: the fact, Drees denied knowing anything about EP these activities,
Speaker 2: But journalist Jana Marx thinks this is a stretch.
Speaker 5: He did work, not shifts. At the time. So the
Speaker 5: possibility that he wasn't away of everything going on, but
Speaker 5: he's deafnically aware of some of it.
Speaker 2: And here's Kobus Yonker again, Suzette's mentor and founder of
Speaker 2: the Occult Related Crimes Unit up till now.
Speaker 5: I will never believe that he didn't know anything that
Speaker 5: was going on.
Speaker 2: He denied everything.
Speaker 5: He doesn't He didn't even know that Cecilia was involved.
Speaker 2: That's the biggest life. I mean, he had to know something.
Speaker 2: It was all going on right under his nose. Plus
Speaker 2: Drees benefited from all the money that was coming in,
Speaker 2: the money that was certainly not going to an orphan.
Speaker 2: Suzanne and Ben put it into perspective for us.
Speaker 1: Reece was a sergeant. Cecilia did not work. So sergeant's
Speaker 1: salary is to laugh about it's very low. Now you
Speaker 1: step into this three bedroom place, what'd you see? First
Speaker 1: thing you see is these two kids playing on a
Speaker 1: huge TV, big screen TV. Now, I'm a captain. I
Speaker 1: cannot afford that.
Speaker 5: His wife buys him big skinn TV, she buys him.
Speaker 4: Xbox, she buys him a motorbike. She doesn't work, she
Speaker 4: doesn't have income, and he doesn't ask a where's the
Speaker 4: money coming from?
Speaker 2: And that money would soon run out. It's now late
Speaker 2: February twenty thirteen. Our friend Luke has been living in
Speaker 2: an abject terror for months. After his first attempt to
Speaker 2: work with the police failed, Luke tried again. He heard
Speaker 2: there was a new officer overseeing the investigation. When Luke
Speaker 2: met with Susette, he told her it was dire that
Speaker 2: they act fast. Susette immediately reached out to Joshua and
Speaker 2: told him to go into hiding. Luke told her everything
Speaker 2: he knew, including how do Yager left him high and
Speaker 2: dry after the tape recording debacle, and there was something
Speaker 2: else suspicious. Colonel di Yager visited Cecilia's place in the
Speaker 2: weeks leading up to Michaela's murder.
Speaker 3: Those there about three to four times a week, and
Speaker 3: he always took gifts.
Speaker 2: Plus, as far as Luke could tell, the cops had
Speaker 2: barely investigated Mikayla's death.
Speaker 3: This colonel never even took fingerprints or anything at Macaylin's
Speaker 3: cos where she was planed.
Speaker 2: Luke met with Detective Susette at a restaurant and went
Speaker 2: over the evidence he'd gathered. He told her about the
Speaker 2: Whig and the recordings of epd's candid confessions. He'd brought
Speaker 2: his friend Aria along, the one who had first introduced
Speaker 2: him to Cecilia. But then Luke was the victim of
Speaker 2: a suspiciously timed theft while he was meeting with Detective Suzette.
Speaker 3: Sitting at a restaurant our conqatch startling with all our
Speaker 3: stuff and there were some evident pieces that he wanted
Speaker 3: to give to us. How the whole carqua's time that
Speaker 3: I'm absolutely sure it's planned.
Speaker 2: Luckily, the tape recording of the murder confessions wasn't in
Speaker 2: the car. He had already handed them over to his
Speaker 2: friend Ariya, who had been supporting him through the sting
Speaker 2: operation and helping him communicate with Diager. Despite what had happened,
Speaker 2: she gave the tape to Diager, hoping he would get
Speaker 2: it into the right hands. Luke did bring Susette the
Speaker 2: wig he'd found in Zach and Machayla's house and laid
Speaker 2: out the whole story of all that he had witnessed.
Speaker 1: To Suzette, fourteen fifteen pages of f and David telling
Speaker 1: me exactly how the group works. And then he was
Speaker 1: asked to help this conspiracy of murder with Rhea's son.
Speaker 2: He was confident that tape was damning. Both he and
Speaker 2: Aria had listened to it before it landed in the
Speaker 2: yager's hands.
Speaker 3: We took the tape and listened to it. There was
Speaker 3: nothing wrong with it.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, by the time that tape made it to court,
Speaker 2: it could no longer be played.
Speaker 3: And it got too courte It was damaged. They couldn't
Speaker 3: use it. So I just this old saw for me
Speaker 3: that the police didn't follow up and do their.
Speaker 2: Job, except for Detective Susette.
Speaker 3: I knows she did an utmost based but if they
Speaker 3: just listened and did something, we could have prevented the
Speaker 3: rest of the murders kind and should have been the
Speaker 3: last one, and I would have stopped there.
Speaker 2: Based on the evidence Luke handed her. Detective Susette felt
Speaker 2: confident the case would go to trial. She brought it
Speaker 2: to the state's attorney and it was passed up the
Speaker 2: chain of command.
Speaker 1: She agrees that she's going to put this through to
Speaker 1: the senior style Avoca to say, give me the rast Lawrence.
Speaker 2: Detective Susette assumed the serial murder case would be a
Speaker 2: clear priority. While she waited for a decision on the
Speaker 2: arrest warrants. Arrangements were made to protect Luke.
Speaker 3: Sothing we told us Stormy or Trench, we can give
Speaker 3: us with this station to protective custody.
Speaker 2: Luke finally felt safe out of Cecilia's reach. But then,
Speaker 2: and yet another unthinkable twist, the senior state attorney claimed
Speaker 2: there wasn't enough evidence to move forward on the case.
Speaker 1: I just said enough, There's not enough evidence.
Speaker 2: Despite everything Detective Susette had Luke's testimony, the recorded confessions,
Speaker 2: the wig, the various eyewitnesses, she was denied an arrest warrant.
Speaker 1: The senior Stigne attorney said, no, it's not consistent, like
Speaker 1: aled wasn't consistent anybody in there. I'd mind going to
Speaker 1: have two lives at it consistent.
Speaker 2: Everyone was floored.
Speaker 1: It shocked me. It shocked that the other investigating officer.
Speaker 1: It shocked the state attorney. It was a decision, the
Speaker 1: senior stated Atturney made that nobody knows why.
Speaker 2: Detective Susette argued that the members of VPD could be
Speaker 2: arrested on the charge of conspiracy to murder, then once
Speaker 2: they had them in custody, the police could find other
Speaker 2: charges or at least leads that they could follow to
Speaker 2: get out in front of the murders before they continued,
Speaker 2: but the state attorney claimed that they didn't want to
Speaker 2: risk losing the prime suspects if their arrest tactic didn't work.
Speaker 1: They said, no, then we're going to jeopardize the murder.
Speaker 1: We rather take them on the murder.
Speaker 2: In one of our earliest interviews with Detective Susette, we
Speaker 2: asked her about how she dealt with the fact that
Speaker 2: seven more deaths would occur before anyone would get justice.
Speaker 2: This was actually a huge part of the reason that
Speaker 2: she move to speak with us and help tell this story.
Speaker 1: I don't think there's a lot of people out there
Speaker 1: that actually knows this, and that's a huge thing for
Speaker 1: me thinking about the families of number five to eleven.
Speaker 2: Now a new question hung in the air. Could Cecilia's
Speaker 2: reach have extended to the Senior State's Attorney's office. She
Speaker 2: couldn't be that powerful, could she. On the next episode
Speaker 2: of Queen Havoc, eventually there was no money in emm.
Speaker 5: He introduced the Mayers as victims for a robbery because
Speaker 5: he was under the impression they keep millions hidden in a.
Speaker 1: Safe in cash zach Quin berserk and they had to
Speaker 1: tell him, listen, you have to finish now because we
Speaker 1: need to get out of.
Speaker 5: Yet something really that is going to happen in the
Speaker 5: near future.
Speaker 2: Queen Havoc and Her Murder Cult is a production of
Speaker 2: School Humans and iHeart Podcasts. Queen Havoc is hosted and
Speaker 2: created by me Kurt Kupachick, produced and written by Jennifer Takeny,
Speaker 2: Julia Chriscau, and Kirk Kupachick. Lead producer is Julia Chriskau.
Speaker 2: Story editor is Saren Burnett. Senior producer is Amelia Brock.
Speaker 2: Production manager is Daisy Church. Original music composed by Claire Campbell, editing,
Speaker 2: sound design and scoring by Jesse Niswanger. Associate producers are
Speaker 2: DaShan Moodley and Jamaine Kriher. Additional producing by Ben Mellman,
Speaker 2: fact checking by Dennis Webster. Recording engineers are Graham Gibson,
Speaker 2: Clay Hillenberg, and Josh Hook. Brenda Stein was read by
Speaker 2: Angelique Pretorius. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, L. C. Crowley,
Speaker 2: Brandon Barr, Jennifer ta Keeney, and Kurt Kupachick. We want
Speaker 2: to thank all of those who so generously welcomed us
Speaker 2: in South Africa and shared their stories. Were incredibly grateful
Speaker 2: to you all. We also want to acknowledge how traumatic
Speaker 2: these events are for the victims and their families. Please
Speaker 2: respect their privacy. If you or someone you know has
Speaker 2: been affected by cult behaviors, there are resources available, including
Speaker 2: Voices for Dignity at Christine Murray dot com.