Speaker 1: Hello listeners, big announcement. We have officially added the Dublin
Speaker 1: show to our Shrek Tannic tour, so come see us
Speaker 1: in Dublin on May twenty ninth at the Irish Film Institute.
Speaker 1: We are covering Titanic and we are so excited to
Speaker 1: be able to finally confirm and announce that show, so
Speaker 1: please come to it. And then, speaking of Dublin, I
Speaker 1: am putting on a stand up comedy show in Dublin
Speaker 1: on my birthday on May seventeenth at Hysteria Comedy Club.
Speaker 1: There are going to be some amazing local comedians on
Speaker 1: the lineup, and then I'll be doing a longer stand
Speaker 1: up set, so please come to that as well. It's
Speaker 1: my birthday, so you kind of have to be there.
Speaker 1: And then we'll all go out for a little birthday
Speaker 1: pint at a birthday pub after the show. It's gonna
Speaker 1: be so much fun. And then tickets are of course
Speaker 1: still available for the rest of the tour. The two
Speaker 1: shows in London on May twenty second, the show show
Speaker 1: in Oxford as a part of the Saint Audio Podcast
Speaker 1: Festival on May twenty fourth, the show in Edinburgh on
Speaker 1: May twenty sixth, and the show in Manchester on May
Speaker 1: twenty eighth, and then again Dublin on May twenty ninth.
Speaker 1: All of the ticket links for all of these shows
Speaker 1: can be found at link tree slash Bechdel Cast. We're
Speaker 1: so excited and we can't wait to see you there.
Speaker 2: On the Bechde Cast, the questions asked if movies have
Speaker 2: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
Speaker 2: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zephim fast
Speaker 2: start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.
Speaker 1: Bojo Bojo, bonapadie.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, this movie is so silly. I think
Speaker 3: my favorite part in the movie is when Jane Lynch
Speaker 3: and Meryl Streeper are just yelling in muppet voices for
Speaker 3: like twenty seconds and they're.
Speaker 1: Like, whooooooo.
Speaker 3: You're like that is sort of like the experience of
Speaker 3: having a sibling, but just like on a noise strictly
Speaker 3: noise level. I love it. I love it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love their sister relationship.
Speaker 3: Can you imagine how thrilled Jane Lynch must be every
Speaker 3: time they're making a movie about a woman that's sticks
Speaker 3: to like She's like, I'm in a cast. Done. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you can't not put her in a movie that requires
Speaker 3: there's So, okay, let's can we start. I'm just excited.
Speaker 3: Name's chef Jamie.
Speaker 1: Oh, and my name is Chef Caitlin. And this is
Speaker 1: the Bechdel cast. Although so we get this sent to
Speaker 1: us a lot where people are like, if one something
Speaker 1: something cooking ingredient speaks to another blah blah blah, but
Speaker 1: then it passes the Bechamel test.
Speaker 3: What maybe I don't read the messages we get.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm saying it correctly. Bechamel sauce
Speaker 1: question mark.
Speaker 3: Is a thing, right, Okay.
Speaker 1: And there's this like I don't know meme where people
Speaker 1: are like if one something or other talks to another
Speaker 1: something other because bechamel looks very close to Bechdel when
Speaker 1: it's spelled out just a few extra letters, so people
Speaker 1: are like ha ha ha. And so I feel like
Speaker 1: this episode, this movie is the most relevant episode to
Speaker 1: bring that up on.
Speaker 3: It's true, we did it, we did it.
Speaker 1: Do I know what bechamel sauce is or what any
Speaker 1: of the ingredients are? Absolutely not?
Speaker 3: Wait, what's your not to be? Like first day of college?
Speaker 3: But like, what's your favorite food? What's your favorite food?
Speaker 3: Ice breaker time?
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I don't even know how to answer
Speaker 1: that question. I love food, though I eat it every day.
Speaker 3: I'm realizing I don't think I know the answer to either.
Speaker 3: I think obviously hot dogs hot dog from Waltz. But
Speaker 3: I think all So is the Philadelphia role the least
Speaker 3: respected sushi role because it's my favorite. I feel like
Speaker 3: sushi heads are like, sure, you know, but I don't know.
Speaker 3: I might be projecting.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's very tasty, but I feel like it
Speaker 1: might be like a very like American eyed bastardized.
Speaker 3: Kind of for babies. A little bit could be well,
Speaker 3: I like it, Wait what's in it?
Speaker 1: Salmon, cucumber and cream cheese?
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, and.
Speaker 3: The cream cheese. I think the cream cheese is where
Speaker 3: they're like, do you really need it? And like I
Speaker 3: need it badly. It's important.
Speaker 1: I want my sushi to taste like a bagel.
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1: Anyway, So yeah, I don't know. I mean, I love food.
Speaker 1: Indian cuisine is probably my top, but also I loved
Speaker 1: Taigh food, and also I love sushi, and also I
Speaker 1: love Mexican food, and I love Peruvian food, and I
Speaker 1: love French food, and I love Brazil. I like basically
Speaker 1: every food.
Speaker 3: Wow, I always forget until I rewatch this movie what
Speaker 3: we mean when we say French food. So that's okay. Anyways,
Speaker 3: great opening to the episode. This is the Bechdel Cast,
Speaker 3: where we talk about your favorite movies using an intersectional
Speaker 3: feminist lens. But Caitlin, we don't know what the Bechamel
Speaker 3: test is because we have unrefined palettes. But what's the
Speaker 3: Bechtel test?
Speaker 1: The Bechdel test is a media metric commonly called the
Speaker 1: Bechdel Wallace test because it was sort of co created
Speaker 1: by Allison Bechdel and Liz Wallace, and it is a
Speaker 1: media metric that has many different versions. The one that
Speaker 1: we use is do two characters of a marginalized gender?
Speaker 1: Do they have names? Do they speak to each other?
Speaker 1: And is the conversation about something other than a man?
Speaker 1: And then a little caveat that we like to add,
Speaker 1: is is it a narratively relevant conversation or is it
Speaker 1: kind of throwaway dialogue? So that is the Bechdel test,
Speaker 1: the Bechamel test, We don't know, but yeah, let's introduce
Speaker 1: our guests. Yeah, we're so excited to have her. She
Speaker 1: is a Palestinian American poet and author of the book
Speaker 1: I Could Die Today and Live Again with Game Over Books.
Speaker 1: It just came out. It's Summer, Farrah.
Speaker 4: Hello, welcome, Thank you for having me. I'm so excited
Speaker 4: to talk about this movie.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, we're so excited. What is your relationship
Speaker 1: with this movie?
Speaker 3: To Julie, to Julia? Also, we're covering Julia and Julia.
Speaker 3: Have we said that yet?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably didn't say it recovering Julia.
Speaker 3: So yeah, Summer, was your history with this movie or
Speaker 3: to either of the food people women in it? Yeah?
Speaker 4: So I did not say this when it came out
Speaker 4: in theaters, but I think my family rented it on
Speaker 4: DVD as soon as it did come out, and basically
Speaker 4: since then, I don't know. I think that was like
Speaker 4: twenty ten. Maybe it was on the DVD. I've it
Speaker 4: every year since. It is my biggest comfort movie, and
Speaker 4: it also has shaped a lot of like it was
Speaker 4: my first exposure to food writing, I think, and like
Speaker 4: understanding food writing is something that people do and care about.
Speaker 4: And I mean, I'm not a food writer, but I
Speaker 4: am a poet who writes a lot about food. Both
Speaker 4: in my poetry and in my critical work on poetry,
Speaker 4: I look at food as image and motif, and I
Speaker 4: think cooking and the kind of culinary stuff is very
Speaker 4: important to like my identity formation as a Palestinian, very
Speaker 4: like kind of typical daughter of immigrants, like my mom
Speaker 4: cooks food for our culture, and those are the only
Speaker 4: words I know in Arabic kind of things. But yeah,
Speaker 4: and I think a lot of this movie kind of
Speaker 4: made me start thinking about that critically and like, oh, well,
Speaker 4: this is actually something that could be important out side
Speaker 4: of the home, in the kitchen, And then I think
Speaker 4: later now when I watch it, I think about parasocial relationships.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, it's a movie.
Speaker 4: About parasocial relationships and how they're good.
Speaker 1: I don't know, to be determined.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, if we're going to figure it out today. Yeah, wait,
Speaker 3: so we just get to ask you what is your
Speaker 3: favorite food?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, oh goshm okay, top of my head, shishbrook,
Speaker 4: which is like lamb dumplings cooked in yogurt broth, is
Speaker 4: my favorite food. It is it's not that labor intensive,
Speaker 4: but it's more labor intensive than like other things, because
Speaker 4: you gotta like make the little dumplings and fill them.
Speaker 4: But it's so good. The broth is like with garlic
Speaker 4: and lemon and mint, and it is my favorite food
Speaker 4: in the world.
Speaker 3: God, that sounds incredible.
Speaker 4: And most of the time our restaurants do not have it,
Speaker 4: and so it's very much a thing that I only
Speaker 4: have at home. But yeah, and so now I write
Speaker 4: a lot of poems about parasocial relationships because I want
Speaker 4: to recover from them, and so this movie is like,
Speaker 4: it's got everything for me.
Speaker 1: Nice Jamie, What is your relationship with the movie?
Speaker 3: I saw this movie when it came out. I don't
Speaker 3: remember if it was in theaters or shortly after, but
Speaker 3: this was a movie I definitely saw when it came out.
Speaker 3: I was sort of wondering, I think that they're like
Speaker 3: on the rewatch because I haven't seen this movie in years,
Speaker 3: but I think I have seen it like four or
Speaker 3: five times now. It's a fun movie to have on
Speaker 3: and I was wondering, I'm like, is this the viewing
Speaker 3: that Julie is gonna win me over? And I also
Speaker 3: like want to be careful to separate real life Julie
Speaker 3: from movie Julie. And this was not the time I
Speaker 3: feel like since I saw this movie for the first time,
Speaker 3: I was just like, Wow, this Adam's story keeps interrupting
Speaker 3: this Meryl Streep story that I'm way more interested in.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I still honestly do sort of feel that way.
Speaker 3: Every time they cut back to Amy Adams in that
Speaker 3: goddamn wig, I'm like, here we go and the wig
Speaker 3: is I have questions about the wig that we need
Speaker 3: to talk about the Wig. However, I really like this movie.
Speaker 3: I think, especially talking about it in the context of
Speaker 3: this show, there's a ton to talk about. I'm really
Speaker 3: interested in Julia Child's life. I couldn't get through. Did
Speaker 3: either of you give the new HBO series from last
Speaker 3: year a try?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought it was weird, and.
Speaker 4: Well, we can talk about it later if it's not.
Speaker 3: I mean, like, watching that make me appreciate Julia and
Speaker 3: Julia Moore because ultimately we got Meryl Streep playing Julia
Speaker 3: Child like that feels like a victory in and of itself.
Speaker 3: And this is Nora Frown's final movie, and I think,
Speaker 3: like Norah f on Is, I don't know, like so
Speaker 3: many themes from her work and her writing are coming
Speaker 3: together in this movie. Whether I like Julie or Not,
Speaker 3: where it's like women turning their lives around and women
Speaker 3: connecting with food and the cities they live in, and
Speaker 3: you know, very little diversity, just like things that are
Speaker 3: inherent to the Nora Efron canon. And I love nor
Speaker 3: ef I especially, I think more so than any of
Speaker 3: her movies. I really love her essay collections the most.
Speaker 3: Everyone should listen to a Nora Efron audio book. They're
Speaker 3: very soothing. But yeah, my issues with this movie have
Speaker 3: been very consistent, but I think they are really fun
Speaker 3: to talk about because you get to be like, you're
Speaker 3: never gonna believe what Amy Adams character talks about all
Speaker 3: day at work, and it is nine to eleven. You
Speaker 3: don't expect nine to eleven to be such a major
Speaker 3: plot point in the Julia Child movie, but that's why
Speaker 3: this movie's built different. Caitlin, what's your history with this movie?
Speaker 1: I will tell you in a second, but first I
Speaker 1: looked up Bechamel sauce. Oh my god, I'm gonna tell
Speaker 1: you what it is in my finest Julie Child impression.
Speaker 1: Bechamel sauce is one of the mother sauces of French cuisine.
Speaker 1: This sauce is made from a white roue and milk
Speaker 1: seasoned with ground nutmeg. The main ingredients are butter, flour
Speaker 1: and milk. The end. That's what I pulled from Wikipia.
Speaker 4: That was really good.
Speaker 3: We're standing and cheering. That's pretty good.
Speaker 4: Anyway.
Speaker 1: My relationship with this movie, I had seen it once before,
Speaker 1: not long after it came out, and I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: I like Meryl Streep.
Speaker 3: You're also part of the movie Julie Hater Patrol.
Speaker 1: Well, sorry if this is blasphemy, but I've never been
Speaker 1: a fan of Amy Adams. I find her a bit
Speaker 1: irritating most roles she's in.
Speaker 3: Sorry, everyone really fucked up to say.
Speaker 1: I can't help it.
Speaker 3: We've done a whole Amy Adams months on the Patreon
Speaker 3: and we've never talked about this.
Speaker 1: Wait did we?
Speaker 3: Yeah, we did Amy Adams. She can do it all month?
Speaker 1: Oh whoa wait?
Speaker 3: Okay, arrival and enchanted because she can do it all.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I guess I was just like holding my tongue
Speaker 1: because I was like.
Speaker 3: This is shocking to me. This was like two years ago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember now, but yeah, I don't know. I've
Speaker 1: always found her a bit I don't know, just not
Speaker 1: for me, not for me.
Speaker 3: Look, it's okay, speaker truth, thank you.
Speaker 4: Really brave to come forward with.
Speaker 3: That, honestly, really brave because Amy Adams fans don't fuck around.
Speaker 3: There's like a whole section of YouTube that's dedicated to
Speaker 3: discussing why Amy Adams does not yet have an oscar.
Speaker 3: And I've watched a lot of videos.
Speaker 1: Well, don't ask me that question because I'll be mean
Speaker 1: about it anyway. But I do love Meryl Streep and
Speaker 1: I love Stanley Tucci, so I'm having fun when they're
Speaker 1: on screen. I generally like the movie, you know, I
Speaker 1: like Nora Efron's work, and I'm excited to talk about it.
Speaker 1: Although if it's a movie about like French food making,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna choose Chaco Lot every time. I mean, okay,
Speaker 1: Alfred Molina alert.
Speaker 3: For Velina Chocolate coma like hard to top. I think
Speaker 3: that there's like a bunch of actor parings in this movie,
Speaker 3: where like Meryl Streep had just worked with Amy Adams
Speaker 3: on Doubt the year before, so they're like engaging in
Speaker 3: a pretty severe vibe shift in this movie, and then
Speaker 3: she had also worked with I mean more famously, I
Speaker 3: guess worked with Stanley Tucci. And Devilwaar's Prada a few
Speaker 3: years before this. Right, anyways, that's six degrees of Beryl.
Speaker 3: I do think it's weird that, Yeah, doubt and then
Speaker 3: this movie coming out less than a year apart is bold.
Speaker 1: Yeah truly. Yeah, but in a case, let's take a
Speaker 1: quick break and then we'll come back for the recap.
Speaker 3: And we're back.
Speaker 1: Okay. So here is Julie and Julia, based on two books,
Speaker 1: based on two true stories. It's the late nineteen forties.
Speaker 1: When the movie opens, we meet Julia Child played by
Speaker 1: Meryl Streep and her husband Paul Wait.
Speaker 3: I kept meaning to look up how tall Meryl Streep
Speaker 3: actually is. I was just gonna ask because I thought
Speaker 3: that there are so many, like funny, practical camera tricks
Speaker 3: to make her Yeah, she's five six, Julia Child is
Speaker 3: six to two. I appreciate that the movie is like,
Speaker 3: she was six too, and we'll prove it. Jane Lynch
Speaker 3: is her sister. But I feel like the whole movie,
Speaker 3: Meryl Streep is standing on an apple box in a
Speaker 3: lot of shots, and she's often standing a little closer
Speaker 3: to the camera than everyone else, so she looks bigger
Speaker 3: and I was like, wow, movies are amazing.
Speaker 1: It's just like Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 3: It's true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Gandalf is so tall in The Hobbit, and so
Speaker 1: in this scenario, Stanley Tucci is a Hobbit Merylyn Streep
Speaker 1: is gandalfrual, brutal.
Speaker 3: This is a good short King movie as and also
Speaker 3: it's I was looking at the letterbox reviews for this
Speaker 3: movie and one of the top ones was like, this
Speaker 3: movie takes place in a fictional world where husbands are supportive,
Speaker 3: and I was like, yeah.
Speaker 1: I cannot wait to talk about the husband one. But anyway,
Speaker 1: so we meet Julia Child and her husband Paul, played
Speaker 1: by Stanley Tucci. They have just moved to Paris. They
Speaker 1: are Americans, but Paul is a diplomat, so you know
Speaker 1: he's abroad working.
Speaker 3: He's in the CIA, which I feel like, where is
Speaker 3: really He's in the literal CIA, and they didn't call
Speaker 3: it the CIA yet, So I feel like the movie
Speaker 3: really gets away with not being like Julia Child's career
Speaker 3: is brought to you by the CIA, much like here
Speaker 3: comes my Bummer thing I love to bring up. Ina
Speaker 3: Garten's career is brought to you by the Blackstone Group
Speaker 3: aka some of the darkest, most fucked up Wall Street
Speaker 3: money in the world. In a Garden's adorable husband Jeffrey, Right,
Speaker 3: Jeffrey he worked for Nixon, Ford and Carter and then
Speaker 3: went to Wall Street working for Lehman Brothers and the
Speaker 3: Blackstone Group. That can't be good, Like, there's just so
Speaker 3: there's just like two extremely iconic women chefs who got
Speaker 3: some kickback from some of the worst institutions in the world.
Speaker 3: But the Julia Child's CIA pipeline, I don't know. We'll
Speaker 3: talk about this in the context area too, because this
Speaker 3: movie is not going to touch the CIA stuff. They're like, well,
Speaker 3: they're a good part of the CIA, right, so already
Speaker 3: we're struggling.
Speaker 1: I was unclear what his job was because in an
Speaker 1: early scene he seems to be at like an art
Speaker 1: exhibit for art that he made question mark. I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: he's an artist, but wait a minute, he works at
Speaker 1: the embassy. But also he's a spy question I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 4: Season two of Julia on HBO.
Speaker 1: Is oh very.
Speaker 4: Much about their past, catching up to them.
Speaker 3: Look at you. Watching season two.
Speaker 4: I had like a fever for like four days, and
Speaker 4: I was like, well, my school what you do?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is how you end up watching something like that.
Speaker 3: Wait did they get into it in a meaningful way?
Speaker 4: I still walk away from it uncertain of both what
Speaker 4: they did during World War two and what their politics
Speaker 4: were after World War Two. But basically the last half
Speaker 4: of the season is about the TV station where like
Speaker 4: the Julia Child Show is made getting investigated by the
Speaker 4: FBI for leftist dissidents, and they rally everyone together to
Speaker 4: thwart the FEDS so that they can all keep on
Speaker 4: doing their progressive work.
Speaker 3: God it yay.
Speaker 4: But it's very much like we believe in anti war movements.
Speaker 4: We believe in fighting against institutionalized racism, but we do
Speaker 4: not believe in communism. Don't think that we do. It's
Speaker 4: very funny, not like funny, haha, but like, oh I
Speaker 4: don't understand what's happening.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So like, tell me what do you believe in?
Speaker 3: Rent it bag?
Speaker 4: I really don't know. I think personally, I like to
Speaker 4: imagine Paul Child was a bisexual communist.
Speaker 3: Yes, God, I would love that. I want to believe.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's like this movie. He certainly succeeds in
Speaker 3: making you want to believe the best in him because
Speaker 3: you don't cast Stanley Tucci if you want to be
Speaker 3: rooting against him unless you're watching The Lovely Bones, and
Speaker 3: in that case, very much so. But yeah, I know
Speaker 3: the history stuff. It's so the Cia origin story. We
Speaker 3: can get more into it. She like had to do
Speaker 3: with the invention of shark repellent. It's all very bizarre.
Speaker 3: We'll get back to it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. Still on the first sentence of the week,
Speaker 1: Julia Child and her husband have just moved to Paris
Speaker 1: Frans ever heard of it? And they are eating delicious
Speaker 1: French food and Julia is just like reveling in it.
Speaker 3: She's making noises. She's like, oh, so many cummy noises.
Speaker 3: It's in this movie. Across the twentieth century, people are
Speaker 3: making coummy noises.
Speaker 1: That's true. That's because eating is like basically better than sex.
Speaker 1: I would say in almost every example. Damn, yeah, take that.
Speaker 1: All of the men that I've had sex with, take
Speaker 1: that sex.
Speaker 3: You weren't very good the tight race for me, I
Speaker 3: don't choose between my passion.
Speaker 1: Mmmm. That's brave of you. Anyway. We cut to two
Speaker 1: thousand and two and we meet Julie Powell played by
Speaker 1: Amy Adams and her husband Eric, played by Chrismasina. They
Speaker 1: have just moved to Queen's. She works at this government
Speaker 1: call center answering like devastating phone calls all day from
Speaker 1: people affected by nine to eleven.
Speaker 3: Her job is nine to eleven. Yes, well, Summer, you've
Speaker 3: read the book. I don't quite understand the movie. I
Speaker 3: don't think does a great job of telling you what
Speaker 3: her job actually is.
Speaker 4: From what I remember, it's like she's processing insurance claims
Speaker 4: of people affected in the various aftermath of nine to eleven.
Speaker 4: But what's fun about her book is she doesn't about
Speaker 4: nine to eleven. She's writing very soon after the events
Speaker 4: and with an apathy that I have only seen in
Speaker 4: like shit posters in the twenty eighteens.
Speaker 3: That is a great way to Yeah, there is like
Speaker 3: a moment in the movie where it's like, oh no,
Speaker 3: she cares, Yeah, But most of it is like these
Speaker 3: phone calls are so annoying, and the people that are
Speaker 3: trying to get their insurance claims processed are bombing her
Speaker 3: out and they're rude, and you're just like, yeah, now, Julie, like.
Speaker 4: And it is a department made specifically after nine to
Speaker 4: eleven to deal with nine to eleven, which I think
Speaker 4: is interesting in just like how do you get into that?
Speaker 4: And it was as temping, which you know, temping is
Speaker 4: a great way to get a full time job, but
Speaker 4: you often don't care about it totally to it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and her job is established to basically be like
Speaker 1: what a hard job she has? So she comes home
Speaker 1: and finds comfort in cooking. Ye, because that becomes her
Speaker 1: whole thing. And then after a string of events where
Speaker 1: Julie's mean friend writes a rude article about her and
Speaker 1: then starts a blog. This sort of also happens in
Speaker 1: Sex and the City too. Yes, do you remember this
Speaker 1: from Sex and This happens to Carrie Bradshaw at one
Speaker 1: point where they're like you're so cool and yet you're
Speaker 1: thirty And then there comes out like this woman sucks,
Speaker 1: like on.
Speaker 3: The cover of a magazine.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So Julie is inspired to start her own blog
Speaker 1: about cooking because she's like, well, if my mean friend
Speaker 1: can have a blog, I can have a blog.
Speaker 3: She doesn't have a nice friend, It's like not really
Speaker 3: and also she's not a nice friend. No, it's interesting,
Speaker 3: and I was like, Nora, what are you getting at
Speaker 3: with this. I don't understand, not sure, but yeah, that
Speaker 3: first thing with her friends, all of her friends are like, Julie,
Speaker 3: shut up, Like anytime she opens her mouth, they're like,
Speaker 3: can you stop talking? They're just like calling her a loser.
Speaker 3: And then you're like, I feel for Julie, And then
Speaker 3: later on I'm like that she is the worst. Wait
Speaker 3: a second, would I bully her? I don't know, movie Julie.
Speaker 1: In any case, she decides to start a blog about cooking,
Speaker 1: and specifically, she will blog about cooking her way through
Speaker 1: Julia Child's cookbook entitled Mastering the Art of French Cooking,
Speaker 1: and she'll do all five hundred and twenty four recipes
Speaker 1: in the book over the course of one year. We
Speaker 1: then cut back to Julia Child in Paris again. Paul
Speaker 1: is a diplomat and he's busy with that, and so
Speaker 1: Julia wants to find something to do with her time.
Speaker 1: She tries a few things like making hats and playing bridge,
Speaker 1: but what she really loves to do is eat, so
Speaker 1: she decides to take up cooking. She tries to buy
Speaker 1: a French cookbook in English, but no such thing really exists,
Speaker 1: so she decides to go to culinary school. We cut
Speaker 1: back to Julie Powell. She has started her blog and
Speaker 1: she started cooking the recipes from Julia's cookbook. It's a
Speaker 1: rocky start. It seems like no one is reading her blog.
Speaker 1: Her mom is not supportive of this project.
Speaker 3: Who can relate? Who can relate? You're writing for no
Speaker 3: one and your mom doesn't understand what your job is.
Speaker 1: Also, one of the recipes requires that she bone a duck,
Speaker 1: and she's dreading doing that, and that's going to pay
Speaker 1: off later in a not very significant way.
Speaker 3: Check out's duck.
Speaker 1: Yep. Meanwhile, Julia starts at Li Corombleau and she ends
Speaker 1: up in a class with men who judge her because
Speaker 1: her skills are are not as advanced, so she works
Speaker 1: extra hard to prove herself. She's chopping onions about it,
Speaker 1: and then soon she outperforms everyone else in the class.
Speaker 1: Back in Queen's Julie's readership is growing. People are leaving
Speaker 1: comments on her blog.
Speaker 3: We mostly hear about people that as her blog is
Speaker 3: growing through something that I remember noticing the last time
Speaker 3: I watched this movie. The only non white character in
Speaker 3: the movie whose face we see once we see her
Speaker 3: face once it's aggressive. She has a friend. I guess,
Speaker 3: do we ever learn what her name? Should?
Speaker 4: We do?
Speaker 1: We learn her name? But she's on screen for a
Speaker 1: total of maybe five seconds, and that might even be generous.
Speaker 4: Part of it is doing a cute little like hand class.
Speaker 3: They're good enough friends to have a secret handshake. She
Speaker 3: also works at nine to eleven. That's all we know.
Speaker 1: Her name is Ernestine. Yes, and I'm going to try
Speaker 1: to figure out. Oh, she's played by Crystal McCreery. Again,
Speaker 1: she's on screen for five seconds, but yes, that is
Speaker 1: one of Julie's friends, and she's talking about this project
Speaker 1: with Ernestine at work. She's also talking about how by
Speaker 1: doing this project, Julie feels like she and Julia Child
Speaker 1: have this like deep spiritual connection and that it feels
Speaker 1: like Julia is always in the kitchen with her watching
Speaker 1: over her. But also along the way, Julie has several
Speaker 1: meltdowns because, oh, she's got a murderal lobster. Oh, some
Speaker 1: of the recipes are hard. Oh, she drops food all
Speaker 1: over the floor. But then she gets a call from
Speaker 1: a journalist at the Christian Science Monitor who wants to
Speaker 1: arrange a dinner with her and a very special guest,
Speaker 1: but we don't know who it is yet because then
Speaker 1: we cut back to Paris. Julia Child meets two women,
Speaker 1: Louisette and Simca, who are teaching French cooking to Americans,
Speaker 1: and they invite Julia to join them. Then there's this
Speaker 1: whole sequence where Julia's sister, Dorothy played by Jane Lynch,
Speaker 1: comes for a visit.
Speaker 3: N The economy of Jane Lynch's time is so amazing.
Speaker 3: She's in there for like a weirdly really long scene
Speaker 3: that just seems to be there so that she and
Speaker 3: Meryl can be like yelling together and it's really fun.
Speaker 3: And then they're like, we're going to introduce you to
Speaker 3: a tall guy, and then instead she meets a short guy.
Speaker 3: Cut too. They're married, and then she's gone from the
Speaker 3: movie right wild.
Speaker 1: But before she's gone, well I get after she's gone,
Speaker 1: she sends a letter to Julia saying that she's gregnant,
Speaker 1: that Dorothy has gotten gregnant, and this is basically there
Speaker 1: to establish something that's not like explicitly stated, but it
Speaker 1: seems like Julia has she's like struggling with infertility, and yeah,
Speaker 1: she really wants to have children, but she and Paul
Speaker 1: are not able to and so like. Learning that her
Speaker 1: sister is gregnant is better sweet. Obviously she's happy for
Speaker 1: her sister, but she's like, but I want to be
Speaker 1: gregnant too, And she's sad.
Speaker 3: But I think is true to her life as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe so. Meanwhile, Julia's friends Luisette and Simca
Speaker 1: ask Julia to collaborate with them on their cookbook. Their
Speaker 1: publisher had rejected them, saying that they need to make
Speaker 1: the book more accessible to Americans, so they ask for
Speaker 1: Julia's help in doing that, and she is delighted to help.
Speaker 1: We cut back to Julie, who reveals her mystery dinner guest.
Speaker 1: It's Judith Jones, the editor who was responsible for getting
Speaker 1: Julia Child's cookbook published, and Julie is making.
Speaker 3: I love try to say.
Speaker 1: I'm like, how do you say this?
Speaker 3: Bof Aby Adams doesn't sound one hundred percent?
Speaker 4: No, I love the like legend of that dish recurring
Speaker 4: throughout the movie. I've never eaten that in my life.
Speaker 4: I've only heard of it in the context of this movie.
Speaker 4: Speaks to my ignorance towards French cuisine. I do not care.
Speaker 4: It's beautiful it's a mystical dish.
Speaker 5: I just love the word bof Boo's how it's like
Speaker 5: trying to say ewan regret.
Speaker 1: Boof is it? I'm good for yes, absolute you. So
Speaker 1: Julie is making this dish and she prepares it the
Speaker 1: night before the dinner, but she falls asleep while it's
Speaker 1: still in the oven and it gets all burnt and ruined,
Speaker 1: and she's freaking out. We cut back to Julia. She's
Speaker 1: working on the cookbook right now. It's just a bunch
Speaker 1: of recipes. There's like no fun or flair, and so
Speaker 1: she's trying to liven it up. I guess. Julia sends
Speaker 1: some of the pages of the book to her pen pal, Avis,
Speaker 1: who then we learn is a literary scout or something.
Speaker 1: She works in publishing, and she shows them to an
Speaker 1: editor at the publishing house Hutton Mifflin in Boston, who
Speaker 1: loves the book and wants to publish it. Julie meanwhile
Speaker 1: makes a new for her dinner with Judith that night,
Speaker 1: and Julie is hopeful that maybe she'll get a book
Speaker 1: deal after a meeting with Judith, but then Judith cancels
Speaker 1: at the last minute and they never reschedule. I guess
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 3: I was like damn, wow, Like yeah, she really ends
Speaker 3: up getting her ass handed to her.
Speaker 1: Julie is very upset and her husband Eric is frustrated
Speaker 1: by this whole project and all of her like mishaps
Speaker 1: and meltdowns and he can't wait till this year's over.
Speaker 1: He feels like she's being very self absorbed and that
Speaker 1: she's focusing more on her readers than their marriage. And
Speaker 1: they argue and he storms off, and she's very upset.
Speaker 1: She keeps blogging, but she stops cooking for a little while.
Speaker 3: What I think is interesting and this like is kind
Speaker 3: of dropped within the movie, but like he makes a
Speaker 3: point I think reasonably to say, like, well, please don't
Speaker 3: write about this argument or me in your blog. And
Speaker 3: then she almost does, and then she doesn't, and you're like, okay,
Speaker 3: she's like learning how to set boundaries a little better.
Speaker 3: But then she just does any eyes and then he's like,
Speaker 3: all right, I'm back. I was like, she didn't you
Speaker 3: made one request, like and I don't know. I was
Speaker 3: kind of on his side on that. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 3: if someone doesn't, I feel like it's the same deal.
Speaker 3: Like if you're in like stand up. I'll always like
Speaker 3: be like, is it okay if I talk about un stage?
Speaker 3: If not, I won't do it. He's like, don't blog
Speaker 3: about me. She's like, okay, but what about in one
Speaker 3: day and he's like, okay.
Speaker 1: It's fine, okay, So back to Julia. She and Simca
Speaker 1: go to Boston to meet with Julie's penpal Avis in
Speaker 1: real life for the first time. They also meet with
Speaker 1: the publishers at Hutton Mifflin, but they think the book
Speaker 1: is too long and complicated, so Julia and Simca get
Speaker 1: to work on revising it. Meanwhile, Julie and Eric make
Speaker 1: up and she starts cooking again, and then a writer
Speaker 1: from The New York Times comes over for dinner to
Speaker 1: do a piece on her. And once it's published, people
Speaker 1: are calling her left and right. She's got publishers, lit agents,
Speaker 1: TV producers. They're offering her deals and then one person
Speaker 1: calls her who is writing a piece about Julia Chi
Speaker 1: Child's ninetieth birthday, and apparently Julia knows about Julie's blog
Speaker 1: and thinks that Julie is not serious or respectful.
Speaker 4: So crushing, I know.
Speaker 1: So she's like speculating as to why Julia thinks that
Speaker 1: she's so sad.
Speaker 3: Her real life comments were not as bad.
Speaker 1: What did she say?
Speaker 3: So, the piece that I am pulling from is from
Speaker 3: tastingtable dot com. I don't know if this is a
Speaker 3: historically verifiable source, and so I can't vouch for tasting
Speaker 3: table dot com. But it seemed like the comments sounded
Speaker 3: very cruel, and they like certainly weren't nice. But it
Speaker 3: had more to do with Julia Child didn't understand what
Speaker 3: a blog was.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's a ninety and was.
Speaker 3: Like, why would she cook all of my recipes?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 3: So she said she must not be much of a cook,
Speaker 3: meaning like she must not be able to write her
Speaker 3: own recipes. Why would like she didn't understand the concept
Speaker 3: of a stunt blog because she was ninety. So, but
Speaker 3: I believe obviously that like if you just heard that
Speaker 3: quote out of context in your Julie crushing, miserable, horrible,
Speaker 3: never meet your heroes. I hope your heroes never learn
Speaker 3: you exist. Yeah, I don't know. I guess I think
Speaker 3: it had more to do with her being old and
Speaker 3: grouchy and being like, what what is this?
Speaker 4: Yeah, this sceneedd instill like a deep fear in me,
Speaker 4: just like, oh, like, I never want anyone that I
Speaker 4: ever admire to ever know about me or see what
Speaker 4: I do or comment on my work ever, because I
Speaker 4: won't be able to handle it.
Speaker 3: And I think it's like interesting too, at least for
Speaker 3: the script. I don't know where the book lands on it,
Speaker 3: but like where the movie lands on it, where Christmasina
Speaker 3: is like all that matters is that Julia Child that
Speaker 3: lives in your head. And I was like, hmm, I
Speaker 3: don't know that I agree with that at all. It
Speaker 3: feels kind of like a bizarre moral. I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I was having difficulty with where because it's like it
Speaker 3: is crushing and I think it's a really interesting thing
Speaker 3: to explore, but that She's just like, well, I guess
Speaker 3: I just am gonna go with the fictional character Julia instead, right,
Speaker 3: But that's the parasocial relationship conversation we get to have,
Speaker 3: I guess.
Speaker 1: And then Julia Child I think, dies before Julie Powell
Speaker 1: ever gets a chance to meet her in real life.
Speaker 1: And then I'm just like, oh, I did feel bad
Speaker 1: for that is sad Julia in that moment, But yeah,
Speaker 1: what I wrote in the recap here is Julie's very
Speaker 1: sad about Julia Child, thinking that she's not like respectful
Speaker 1: or serious. But then Julie realizes that what Julia thinks
Speaker 1: of her doesn't matter. What matters is what Julie thinks
Speaker 1: of herself question mark or something sort.
Speaker 3: Of really unclear. I don't know. I was like, Okay,
Speaker 3: if I had like made all of act cast right
Speaker 3: and then found out that Kathy guys White was like,
Speaker 3: You're not a serious person, it would be crushing. But
Speaker 3: I feel like it would just be really weird to
Speaker 3: be like, I actually don't care what she thinks because
Speaker 3: it's like so obvious that I really do or why
Speaker 3: would I have done any of this? But then it's
Speaker 3: I don't know. I feel like maybe it's just like
Speaker 3: the Christmas in a line of dialogue sort of being like,
Speaker 3: and this is the lesson because Julie, it seems like
Speaker 3: Julie at the end, she goes to the exhibit and
Speaker 3: is like, I love you, Julia, but like which Julia
Speaker 3: the one in her head or the real one?
Speaker 1: The real one? Will never know, We'll never know. In
Speaker 1: any case, we cut back to Julie Child, Houghton, Meflin
Speaker 1: rejects the book, and so Julia is unsure what to
Speaker 1: do next. She feels like she's wasted eight years of
Speaker 1: her life writing this book. But then, thanks to her
Speaker 1: pen pal Avis, the book comes across the desk of
Speaker 1: a publisher named Judith Jones, the one who was supposed
Speaker 1: to meet with Julie and then it was raining, so
Speaker 1: she canceled, and then they never rescheduled. A question mark
Speaker 1: not sure, but anyway.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm on Ja's side there too.
Speaker 4: I love to cancel plan.
Speaker 3: I know surely she's like, yeah, it's a little far, sorry.
Speaker 1: But yes. We meet Judith Jones when she's a young
Speaker 1: publisher and she loves the cookbook and she wants to
Speaker 1: publish it and she thinks it's going to revolutionize cooking
Speaker 1: in the US, and Julia is ecstatic. Back to Julie,
Speaker 1: it's her last day of this year long project and
Speaker 1: the last of her five hundred and twenty four recipes
Speaker 1: where she has to bone the duck, and it is
Speaker 1: presented by the movie as though it's gonna be this
Speaker 1: big event because they keep referring to it, and it
Speaker 1: feels like it's really building up to something. But then
Speaker 1: she's like I did it and there's no special moment
Speaker 1: or anything anyway.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the cookie scene I remember is the lobster scene
Speaker 3: from this movie. Yeah, the lobster scenems fun.
Speaker 4: That seems much scarier to me. Yeah, especially, I mean,
Speaker 4: hygiene doesn't really matter in a movie, right, but like
Speaker 4: she's like touching the phone with her raw chicken hands.
Speaker 4: She's like, yeah, on the yenging on the ground with
Speaker 4: raw chicken residue, and she's like very brave, unafraid of that. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and so like the grossest thing to me about deeboning
Speaker 4: the duck is like touching raw meat. Yeah, but she
Speaker 4: seems fine with that, So I don't know. The live
Speaker 4: lobster thing, I was like, oh, I simply would never
Speaker 4: do that, but yeah, the raw meat is gross.
Speaker 3: The rob meat is pretty nasty. Yeah, the lobster. I
Speaker 3: think the lobster scene sticks with me mainly because I
Speaker 3: would be petrified to do that, and because I like
Speaker 3: the music choice, like putting Psycho, Like it's.
Speaker 4: So silly, it's really fun.
Speaker 3: Yes, there's talking heads in the Meryl Street Julia Child movie.
Speaker 3: That's fun.
Speaker 1: Anyway, So she bones the duck and it is fine.
Speaker 1: There's no problems and she celebrates with her friends, and
Speaker 1: then Julia and Eric go to the Julia Child Museum
Speaker 1: in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
Speaker 3: Ever heard of that?
Speaker 1: And then text on the screen at the end of
Speaker 1: the movie says that mastering the Art of French Cooking
Speaker 1: is in its forty ninth printing. Julie Pal's book Julie
Speaker 1: and Julia was published in two thousand and five and
Speaker 1: then made into a movie, and we were like, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: you mean the movie that we are watching right now?
Speaker 4: What?
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is sad because it's like the last frame
Speaker 3: that Nora Efron ever produced. But my boyfriend was like, oh,
Speaker 3: fuck you. Like when they show at the end where
Speaker 3: they're like and it's a movie, You're like, I know,
Speaker 3: I know where I've been the last two hours.
Speaker 1: Yes, So that's the movie. Let's take another quick break
Speaker 1: and we'll come back to discuss and we're back.
Speaker 3: Is it cool if we talk about the real life
Speaker 3: women before we get into sultanly, because this is the
Speaker 3: first time I've seen this movie since Julie Powell passed. Yeah,
Speaker 3: she passed away very young, She's forty nine. It was
Speaker 3: a brief sudden illness and so I want to be
Speaker 3: clear when I'm talking about the Julie of this movie,
Speaker 3: I'm not talking about Julie Powell by all accounts. She's
Speaker 3: a lovely person, and God help you if you are
Speaker 3: judged by blog posts from the early two thousands for
Speaker 3: the rest of your life, truly. Yeah, So I just
Speaker 3: wanted to share a little bit about her. There were
Speaker 3: a number of lovely essays eulogizing her when she passed
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty two. That also touches on something that
Speaker 3: I memory hold but vaguely remember about the time that
Speaker 3: this movie came out, which was that Julia and Julia
Speaker 3: came out in two thousand and five. It was a
Speaker 3: very successful book. It was turned into this movie in
Speaker 3: nine and Julie Powell released her only other book shortly thereafter,
Speaker 3: and she was torn to shreds over it because it
Speaker 3: dealt with the marriage that we see presented very lovingly,
Speaker 3: and they remained married until her death. So I don't
Speaker 3: know about it, but there was a lot of infidelity
Speaker 3: between the two of them, and Julie Powell wrote about it.
Speaker 3: I haven't read the book, but I guess pretty honestly.
Speaker 3: In this book that came out three months after the movie.
Speaker 3: So I think the idea was the movie is going
Speaker 3: to really endear everyone to Julie Powell, and then we'll
Speaker 3: want to read her new book. But I think it
Speaker 3: sort of ended up in a way that feels very
Speaker 3: connected to late Aught's misogyny, kind of blowing up in
Speaker 3: her face in an unfair way where she's writing very
Speaker 3: I mean, I hope with her husband's permission and they
Speaker 3: remained married. Let's hope, so but you know, being too
Speaker 3: imperfect or writing about something that was so at odds
Speaker 3: with the movie character that had done so well over
Speaker 3: the summer. And I vaguely remember that, and it seems
Speaker 3: like in retrospect it was like very unfair to her.
Speaker 3: They wanted to just share something from an essay by
Speaker 3: I write her named Emily Ferris in Bonapetite that was
Speaker 3: released in late twenty twenty two, shortly after she passed away.
Speaker 3: That seems really kind, because I guess Julie Powell became
Speaker 3: very well known for mentoring young writers, which not enough
Speaker 3: people do. She said, when I was broken in between apartments,
Speaker 3: she paid me to house it when I probably should
Speaker 3: have been paying her to sublet. When I cracked the
Speaker 3: screen on my laptop. A few weeks before my book
Speaker 3: was due, she took me to the Max Doore in
Speaker 3: front of me the money for a new one until
Speaker 3: I got my next advance check from my publisher. And
Speaker 3: when I found myself without a place to stay while
Speaker 3: covering a food blogging panel, she sent me to her parents' house.
Speaker 3: Even when her life got messy, both peron similar professionally,
Speaker 3: she continued to give to me, to her other friends
Speaker 3: and families, to animal rescue organizations, and to a public
Speaker 3: that seemed to turn on her when she showed them
Speaker 3: more of who she really was. So yeah, I just
Speaker 3: wanted to shout out Julie Powell and yeah, gone far
Speaker 3: too soon.
Speaker 4: That's so sweet. Oh my god.
Speaker 3: I know I was like anytime I read about like
Speaker 3: mentorship in general, but especially like mentors between like women
Speaker 3: and famis, I'm like, ugh, she seemed like a really
Speaker 3: lovely person. And I'm kind of curious about her second
Speaker 3: book me too.
Speaker 4: I never read it. I read her first one, and
Speaker 4: you know, she writes about her husband so wonderfully. I
Speaker 4: think that's like, honestly bummer. But my favorite part of
Speaker 4: the book, it's the way she writes about her husband,
Speaker 4: and I think it'd be I don't know, I kind
Speaker 4: of do want to read the second one, and just
Speaker 4: I don't know if you're going to read blogs and
Speaker 4: personal essay writing and then be cruel to people when
Speaker 4: they're honest. It's like, well, read a different genre.
Speaker 3: Right right. It's like they only like the version of
Speaker 3: her that is rom com her and actual her is
Speaker 3: not acceptable. Yeah. The book is called Cleaving, a Story
Speaker 3: of Marriage, Meet and Obsession, which, according to scholarly journal Wikipedia,
Speaker 3: details her experiences learning to butcher at Fleischer's butcher Shop
Speaker 3: in New York and the effects of affairs by both
Speaker 3: her and her husband on their marriage. And yeah, it
Speaker 3: seems like most of the negative reviews were just like
Speaker 3: how dare you talk about this? So fuck that? And
Speaker 3: then we have Julia Child, who was in the CIA,
Speaker 3: Like just she's in the CIA, unclear. I also like,
Speaker 3: don't trust anything that is published on the CIA website.
Speaker 3: Julia Child has her own like clickbait page on c
Speaker 3: i A dot gov. You're like, this is some skill,
Speaker 3: good Jesus. So if there's ever been a time to
Speaker 3: consider the source, it's here. But yeah, the Julia Child
Speaker 3: CIA landing page says that she was with the so
Speaker 3: it was called the OSS at the time. That turns
Speaker 3: into the CIA, the Office of Strategic Services. It is
Speaker 3: said that she joined the CIA because she was too
Speaker 3: tall to be in the military. What a sentence. Okay,
Speaker 3: so this is very CIA website. Working as a research
Speaker 3: assistant in the Secret Intelligence Division, Julia typed up thousands
Speaker 3: of names on little white note cards. What what are
Speaker 3: the names? What happened to the why? That's all it
Speaker 3: says about what she was up to, and then it
Speaker 3: gets to the fun part, which is the shark repellent.
Speaker 3: Julia then worked with the OSS Emergency c Rest You
Speaker 3: Equipment section, where she worked in close proximity to offers
Speaker 3: who developed shark repellent, and that she met her husband
Speaker 3: in the CIA, and then he got promoted in the
Speaker 3: CIA and they got to move to France for the CIA. Okay,
Speaker 3: So it feels like this very bizarre two hander where
Speaker 3: on one hand, she is a woman in the early
Speaker 3: twentieth century who clearly very much wants a career in
Speaker 3: a way that was not acceptable at the time, and
Speaker 3: then the career is in the CIA, and so it's
Speaker 3: like a real girl boss pickle that we're getting ourselves
Speaker 3: into with all this. And she's also comes from a
Speaker 3: lot of money and is basically rich her entire life,
Speaker 3: which I think is the way that class is dealt
Speaker 3: with in this movie. I think is really interesting. That's
Speaker 3: my context corner. Nora Afron not much to know other
Speaker 3: than she like, I love food, and so that's why
Speaker 3: she wanted to make this movie. She loved food.
Speaker 1: To speak to the movie, because a lot of that stuff,
Speaker 1: especially with Julia Child, is like pretty glossed over as
Speaker 1: far as her like former work in the CIA, and
Speaker 1: what Paul's job is. Again, I thought he was like
Speaker 1: an artist or an architect or something, because they're like
Speaker 1: he designed the rooms that won World War Two, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, what is his job anyway, So as far
Speaker 1: as what the movie presents, I do appreciate that this
Speaker 1: is a movie largely about women finding purpose and pursuing
Speaker 1: something that they love and sticking with it despite obstacles
Speaker 1: along the way. And maybe those obstacles are lobsters, maybe
Speaker 1: they are McCarthyism, you know, who's to say. But I
Speaker 1: also appreciate that it's very rare that there is a
Speaker 1: movie where we can talk about a female character and
Speaker 1: her husband, because it's almost always talking about a female
Speaker 1: character because she's his wife. So I like the kind
Speaker 1: of framing of everything here, and I do want to
Speaker 1: talk about the husbands and their level of support, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I just I like that this is a movie where
Speaker 1: it's like, Wow, women should pursue their dreams.
Speaker 3: Or even just to like speak to the in even
Speaker 3: lower Bar a movie where like women are eating as
Speaker 3: much as they want the whole time, and it's like
Speaker 3: two women who love to eat and they're not like
Speaker 3: caught in like Gilmore Girl syndrome where they still look
Speaker 3: like they go to forty pilates classes a week even
Speaker 3: though all they do is eat, like you know, and
Speaker 3: it's still very movie fied. But that yeah, like there's
Speaker 3: so few stories about like women and food that is
Speaker 3: like celebratory, so right.
Speaker 4: And I think there's minimal there. Definitely is like just
Speaker 4: mentions of like, oh, I'm gaining a lot of weight
Speaker 4: because I'm eating fattening food, you know, But there's way
Speaker 4: less like kind of yeah, body shamey or like language
Speaker 4: that would lead you to have an eating disorder in
Speaker 4: this movie that I think you would expect right, which
Speaker 4: is fun. It's another reason why I like it so much.
Speaker 4: It is so much about the indulgence and enjoying food
Speaker 4: and allowing yourself to enjoy it, you know, like Julie
Speaker 4: doesn't stop cooking because she feels tired from eating a
Speaker 4: lot of butter. You know, Yeah that happens. And yeah,
Speaker 4: it feels very counter to other films of this type
Speaker 4: and time. You don't really walk away from it being like,
Speaker 4: oh god, you want it, you want to eat the
Speaker 4: chocolate cake.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't leave the movie being like they should
Speaker 3: have eaten less.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, more, they should have eaten more. Yeah.
Speaker 3: There are definitely like dated and it is a period
Speaker 3: piece even at the time is coming out. Yeah, like
Speaker 3: dated ways of talking. But it was mostly negative self talk.
Speaker 3: I can't think of a lot of examples. I don't
Speaker 3: know if any of like someone commenting Onlie and Julia's body.
Speaker 3: It was more of mostly Julie being hard on herself.
Speaker 3: But I mean again, Barra on the floor. But I think,
Speaker 3: you know, like a lesser movie would have had like
Speaker 3: the husband's commenting on their bodies. True, and the fact
Speaker 3: that it was mostly relegated to some good old fashioned
Speaker 3: negative self talk felt at least like a less bad version.
Speaker 3: And I also don't know from Julie's book if that
Speaker 3: is like something that is from the book. I just
Speaker 3: don't know a little bit.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's funny, you know, like she has the Quippi
Speaker 4: Bloggie early two thousand's voice. And I think that kind
Speaker 4: of self degradation that is mostly a joke is just
Speaker 4: like kind of part of the flare, you know. But
Speaker 4: I think in the context of the movie, it adds
Speaker 4: like a realistic character dimension. It makes Julie feel like, yeah,
Speaker 4: she's she's messy, it's.
Speaker 3: Fun, she's just like me. She hates herself. Yeah right, yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean just the idea of a movie about women
Speaker 3: and food. And I mean I get like the parallels
Speaker 3: between the two of them are significant. I think that
Speaker 3: an interesting big chasm between them that the movie doesn't
Speaker 3: really look at. And also it's like, I don't know,
Speaker 3: I don't go to Nora Ephron for thoughtful commentary on class,
Speaker 3: but this movie, Yeah, it's interesting because of the stories
Speaker 3: they're based on. Class has to be present, and we're
Speaker 3: still firmly in the middle to upper middle class when
Speaker 3: it comes to Julie. But there is a not insignificant
Speaker 3: class difference between Julie and Julia, and I feel like
Speaker 3: a lot of how like listening to Julie be like,
Speaker 3: why can't I be more like Julia? And I kept
Speaker 3: being like, money, Yeah, money kind of your personality, but
Speaker 3: it's a lot of it is money, Like where Julia Child,
Speaker 3: for all of her valid struggles, never had to worry
Speaker 3: about money, and that tends to make you a more
Speaker 3: pleasant person if you never have to worry about jack
Speaker 3: shit like and the ways that class colors Julie's story,
Speaker 3: it is kind of a Cinderella story where she has
Speaker 3: to write her way out of her insurance claims job,
Speaker 3: but even stuff with like she can't afford to live
Speaker 3: in the area of town she wants to and that
Speaker 3: has an effect on her career when she gets canceled
Speaker 3: on because it's too far, which again I celebrate that cancelation,
Speaker 3: but like, there's a little class stuff in there, and
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's not perfectly done. I just thought
Speaker 3: it was, Like one of the more bizarre parts of
Speaker 3: this movie to be is that doesn't seem to really
Speaker 3: register in the constant comparison between these women's life trajectories.
Speaker 4: I think Julia Child is often used as like fake
Speaker 4: deep inspiration of like, Julia didn't learn to cook until
Speaker 4: she was in her forties, and it's like, well, because
Speaker 4: she lived a very privileged life in which she didn't
Speaker 4: have to learn how to cook for herself and then
Speaker 4: had an incredible abundance of time in which all she
Speaker 4: had to do was what she wanted, right, And I
Speaker 4: don't see that really being engaged with culturally until recently,
Speaker 4: maybe even it's a member. I think a lot of
Speaker 4: us are very distracted by the reality of what growing
Speaker 4: up wealthy can do for a person and trying to
Speaker 4: like we don't all have the same hours in the day,
Speaker 4: the like part, especially like coming home to cook six
Speaker 4: hour meal, Like that's so commendable. I would I when
Speaker 4: I did have to go to an office when I
Speaker 4: came home, I would never do something that would takes
Speaker 4: that long. And just thinking, well, if you have a
Speaker 4: husband who's supporting me, you have theoretically family money, although
Speaker 4: you know she doesn't have a great Julia didn't have
Speaker 4: a great relationship with her father as we see, But
Speaker 4: of course you can do the thing that takes hours
Speaker 4: and hours and hours right, it's not glamorous to think
Speaker 4: about that, I guess.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, But it's like with Julie, do you do
Speaker 3: see that, Like it's taking more of a toll on
Speaker 3: her life than it took on Julia's because she has
Speaker 3: to have a normal job and commute and do all
Speaker 3: the things that most people need to do. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: she's still privileged to be able to, you know, find
Speaker 3: the energy to have the hobby. Like there is still
Speaker 3: a degree of privilege in that. But yeah, they're operating
Speaker 3: in different levels of privilege, which feels kind of wild
Speaker 3: to say because they are, you know, they're both white
Speaker 3: women that have you know, sort of the world bows
Speaker 3: to them both eventually anyways, And again, like Nora Afron,
Speaker 3: this is not really anymore than I'm not trying to
Speaker 3: compare them outside of this, but Nora Efron also grew
Speaker 3: up very wealthy, you know, the odds she had had
Speaker 3: a lot to do with misogyny and not a lot
Speaker 3: to do with class. And I feel the same way
Speaker 3: about Emerald Finelle, where you're just like, here's a director
Speaker 3: that I'll always give their stuff a shot, but I'm
Speaker 3: not going to them for valuable insight on class. Because
Speaker 3: they're just like not equipped to do it.
Speaker 1: What you didn't think Saltburn had important comment to And
Speaker 1: I'm kidding.
Speaker 3: Well, it's like she's like a jewelry heiress or something,
Speaker 3: and you're just like, yeah, this is not the director
Speaker 3: I'm going to for this. But I like to look
Speaker 3: at pretty thing.
Speaker 4: I do like the way the PayPal is a detail
Speaker 4: of a plot point to show that Julius readers love her. Yes,
Speaker 4: I love the early two thousands and of it. I
Speaker 4: love the beginning of blogging and just hearing those things.
Speaker 4: It's so fun. I love when Christmasina explains blogging.
Speaker 3: It's really great, just like the herculean effort of beginning
Speaker 3: a blog on Salon dot com. You're like, wow, what
Speaker 3: a moment of time. Or when she gets competitive with
Speaker 3: her friend who's it just is like the way that
Speaker 3: female friends work in Julie's world is weird to be
Speaker 3: in Julia's world. I kind of love it, Like I
Speaker 3: don't really have any notes there Julie's world. I'm like,
Speaker 3: what is Nora try to say to us here or Julie.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure where it's coming from. But the friend
Speaker 3: that humiliates her also has a blog about having sex
Speaker 3: in a plane question Mark and yeah, honestly not out
Speaker 3: of the I don't know. Early blogging was so wild.
Speaker 3: People were just saying.
Speaker 1: Whatever, yeah, yeah, Well, to speak a little bit more
Speaker 1: to Julie's friends, yes.
Speaker 3: What's going on?
Speaker 1: She has the mean girl boss friends who are very condescended.
Speaker 1: One of them is Casey Wilson. The other one writes
Speaker 1: this like rude piece about Julie becoming thirty or something.
Speaker 1: I don't even know what the topic is.
Speaker 3: If I were Julie, that would have affected me far worse.
Speaker 3: I was glad that for Julie. She was like, oh,
Speaker 3: I need to start writing again. I was like, oof,
Speaker 3: My takeaway would have been far more negative.
Speaker 4: How could a friend write a hit piece on you
Speaker 4: and then you just keep going?
Speaker 3: When it happened on Sex and the City, it wasn't
Speaker 3: her friend, No, it was a person.
Speaker 1: It was a person.
Speaker 4: I don't know. I really love viewing this like incredibly
Speaker 4: inaccessible version of female friendship to me and like, I
Speaker 4: simply do not. This doesn't register to me, just incredible
Speaker 4: like coterie of girl bosses.
Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, I don't know what the intent
Speaker 1: is there. But then she has another friend, Sarah played
Speaker 1: by mary Lynn Rushcub, who seems not mean, She seems
Speaker 1: to be supportive. She comes over and helps Julie cook.
Speaker 1: Sometimes she doesn't have that much you know, screen time
Speaker 1: or narrative significance, but at least like Julie is given
Speaker 1: a friend who is kind to her and we like that,
Speaker 1: especially in contrast to her mean friends. And then she
Speaker 1: has these other friend that we mentioned Ernestine. It's Julie's
Speaker 1: one black friend. It's like the only person of color
Speaker 1: on screen with any sort of speaking.
Speaker 3: Role, truly. Shot for shot, you see like her eyes was,
Speaker 3: you see the back of her head several times, and
Speaker 3: then you see her whole face in the final shot
Speaker 3: she appears in like it could not be more careless.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the movie doesn't care at all about her character.
Speaker 1: But then so there's a scene where I think it's
Speaker 1: Julie Eric and her friend Sarah. Sarah comes over and
Speaker 1: Julie's like, what do you think it means if you
Speaker 1: don't like your friends, referring to her mean girl boss friends.
Speaker 3: Right, who she's right to not let like?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that seems so confusing.
Speaker 1: And Sarah responds with it's completely normal to not like
Speaker 1: your friends. And then Eric says, well, men like their friends,
Speaker 1: and then Sarah says, we're not talking about men. Who's
Speaker 1: talking about men? Which I think passes the Bachdel test.
Speaker 3: But anyway, it also I'm like, okay, Eric, where are
Speaker 3: your friends at haven't seen them in the movie? Where
Speaker 3: are these friends you like so much? Doesn't seem like
Speaker 3: they're really around, are they? Yeah? That felt very boomery
Speaker 3: logic to me. I like couldn't quite get my head
Speaker 3: around it because it was like, if we're talking about
Speaker 3: that friend, Yeah, she shouldn't be your friend anymore. They're
Speaker 3: me like she betrayed you and like humiliated you in
Speaker 3: a national magazine. I don't think that has to do
Speaker 3: with like friendships between women. It has to do with
Speaker 3: this woman being a bad person.
Speaker 1: Right, And to Julie's credit, it seems like they're not
Speaker 1: friends anymore, at least in the context of the movie.
Speaker 1: They don't hang out after that, but who knows what
Speaker 1: the real life situation was.
Speaker 3: But it's like, do the other girl bosses cut her out?
Speaker 3: Like what?
Speaker 4: It was really interesting in all of the Dinners when
Speaker 4: she has people over, Yeah, those women do not return,
Speaker 4: And I wondered if it was like, would they not
Speaker 4: eat the food. They wouldn't, they wouldn't let her.
Speaker 3: Have a friend's Oh yeah, they were like stop eating. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that whole scene. I watched it a couple of times
Speaker 3: because it's like way all over the place. It's just
Speaker 3: really bizarre.
Speaker 4: It feels atonal for the rest of the movie too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, it feels cartoonish. But then the way
Speaker 3: that friendships between women are in Julia Child's world, I
Speaker 3: thought were like really thoughtful and gentle and like not
Speaker 3: without conflict, but still there's a ton of support and
Speaker 3: like there are friends of Julia Child's that are, you know,
Speaker 3: on equal footing of like narrative importance as her husband,
Speaker 3: and that's really nice. I mean, I love the scenes
Speaker 3: with Juliet and Simca. I love that they're like, we're
Speaker 3: gonna cut our third friend out of it, and then
Speaker 3: they experience a little pushback and Julia's like, never mind,
Speaker 3: because I would have done the same thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they're confronting Louisette because she's not doing her
Speaker 1: share of the work, and Julia and Simca are frustrated,
Speaker 1: rightfully so, because they're doing all the work and they
Speaker 1: sit Louisette down and then she's like, I'm going through
Speaker 1: a divorce and they're like, ooh, yeah, okay, but then
Speaker 1: they still kind of negotiate her down to like only
Speaker 1: receiving eighteen percent or something like that. Yeah, and they're like,
Speaker 1: your name has to be small, but then Julia is like, no,
Speaker 1: your name can be big on the cover. It's fine.
Speaker 3: I love a fellow conflict avoidant.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, but I do appreciate, like, I really liked
Speaker 1: that dynamic between those three friends and how I like
Speaker 1: have to confront the one friend and yeah, it felt authentic.
Speaker 1: And then she also has a deep friendship with Avis,
Speaker 1: who she like is penpals with for eight years, and
Speaker 1: then they finally meet on screen and the.
Speaker 3: AVS reveal is so honestly, this is really sweet and
Speaker 3: also so weird because you're like, wow, it's AVS and
Speaker 3: then it's just like a tiny Avis.
Speaker 4: I love that so much. I feel very close to
Speaker 4: Julia Child in that way. I have many friends that
Speaker 4: I've only communicated with online for many years pre Tumblr
Speaker 4: a pen pal. It's so sweet.
Speaker 3: I think that Julia story just is less messy in general,
Speaker 3: But like the Julia story navigates like, yeah, meeting a
Speaker 3: friend you've only written to for the first time in
Speaker 3: this really sweet and cathartic way. But the parasocial relationships
Speaker 3: in Julie's worlds are weird confusing. Julie's world is weird
Speaker 3: and confusing. Yeah, in general, I think she should divorce
Speaker 3: all of her friends. I did like the Marilyn Ris
Speaker 3: cub character, like she is a sweet, supportive friend, but also, yeah,
Speaker 3: you're being a bitch, like, I mean, you know, language choice, eh,
Speaker 3: But she is being unbelievably self centered in that scene
Speaker 3: because she's like, by the way, I'm going through a
Speaker 3: really big breakup and Amy Adams is like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: I totally forgot anyways back to me, and I was like, whoop,
Speaker 3: bad friend.
Speaker 4: So funny.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she is like not a great friend either. I
Speaker 3: don't know, MESSI is.
Speaker 1: That a good transition to talk about the husbands, because
Speaker 1: that's yeah, Julie's husband, Eric's big problem with this whole project,
Speaker 1: and I have Okay, here my thoughts on it. What
Speaker 1: do you think? Okay, So we see him being generally
Speaker 1: supportive to Julie, especially at first he helps her set
Speaker 1: up the blog. He encourages her verbally and with compliments
Speaker 1: and stuff like that he loves her cooking. But then
Speaker 1: there's that rocky part in the middle where he gets
Speaker 1: frustrated and he bails for a little bit, and he
Speaker 1: calls her narcissistic and all this stuff, and I feel
Speaker 1: like we are not given enough information to know if him,
Speaker 1: you know, being pissed off and accusing her of being
Speaker 1: self absorbed is justified, or if it's just a man
Speaker 1: expecting certain behavior from a woman. And also another component
Speaker 1: of it, which the movie doesn't like frame it this
Speaker 1: way at all or examine, But this happens a lot
Speaker 1: in real life in hetero couples, where men feel threatened
Speaker 1: if their wife is doing better than them professionally or financially,
Speaker 1: or if they're like, you know, their wife is having
Speaker 1: success in some regard and men feel very threatened by
Speaker 1: that a lot of the time. And I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: is there a component of that with the Eric characters,
Speaker 1: he threatened by this success that his his wife is
Speaker 1: finding kind of suddenly, And again the movie doesn't examine
Speaker 1: that or really acknowledge that, But I was like, hmm,
Speaker 1: this does happen a lot, So I wonder if that
Speaker 1: was part of it, or if it's just Julie being
Speaker 1: selfish and uncompromising. But you know, who can say yeah.
Speaker 3: I was also struggling to yeah. Summer thoughts.
Speaker 4: I don't know. I think every time I watch the movie,
Speaker 4: I feel a little differently about their fight. I watched
Speaker 4: it twice before this, and so I watched it last
Speaker 4: week and I watched it last night, and between those
Speaker 4: different times I felt differently. I think it is very
Speaker 4: alienating for someone who you love and who supports you
Speaker 4: to make you feel worse when you're having a meltdown
Speaker 4: by responding in a way that is like, you know,
Speaker 4: like she's very upset because something is very important to her,
Speaker 4: and his response is kind of brushing it off. I
Speaker 4: don't even think I feel like it wasn't kind of
Speaker 4: a twist of like, well, let's be positi if we
Speaker 4: have good food and you can reschedule, you know, like
Speaker 4: with Judith Jones rescheduling, It was a little like why
Speaker 4: is this important? And that can feel really devastating and horrible,
Speaker 4: especially if you are someone who is prone to meltdowns.
Speaker 4: And I think having a meltdown when something goes wrong
Speaker 4: valid and apecially saying yes, Oh, it is very devastating
Speaker 4: and overwhelming in the moment, and so I don't know.
Speaker 4: Every single time I watch it, I wonder where that
Speaker 4: comes from, Like whether it is not believing what she's
Speaker 4: doing is important and it's like, yeah, no one will
Speaker 4: be mad at you if someone canceled on you for dinner.
Speaker 4: And I think that's something that she needed to hear.
Speaker 4: This projection of like responsibility on her readers. It's warped
Speaker 4: and it's unhealthy to feel like you owe something to
Speaker 4: other people when you don't really because otherwise I think
Speaker 4: he's a fantastic husband. He's so kind, he's having such
Speaker 4: a good time with her, and he's very supportive, and
Speaker 4: I think sometimes I wish we'd seen maybe a little
Speaker 4: bit more of a build up of his frustration, or
Speaker 4: in what ways is she distracted from their marriage outside
Speaker 4: of like she spends all her free time making really
Speaker 4: good food. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like it comes out of nowhere.
Speaker 3: I wonder if there's like a missing scene or something.
Speaker 3: I just feel like, I it's really hard to fall
Speaker 3: on like a hard interpretation because I just feel like
Speaker 3: I don't have enough information because it's not like we
Speaker 3: haven't seen examples of Julie brushing off other people in
Speaker 3: favor of herself and her own problems. We've saw her
Speaker 3: do that with her friend, so it's not like there's
Speaker 3: no precedent for this. But also we haven't really seen
Speaker 3: her do this to him. We don't really know. I mean,
Speaker 3: I feel like we're usually having this conversation in the reverse,
Speaker 3: but like we don't really know much about it, Like, no,
Speaker 3: I don't really know, like does he feel like her
Speaker 3: pursuing this dream? There's no space within the relationship for
Speaker 3: him to pursue his like what would he rather this
Speaker 3: time be used for? Because it also is such a
Speaker 3: valid and common thing to be like, actually, you know,
Speaker 3: this started fun, but now you're getting too much attention
Speaker 3: and I'm not comfortable with it. Yeah, but that wasn't
Speaker 3: really who I understood that character to be up to then.
Speaker 3: So it was just feels, honestly like an end of
Speaker 3: Act to Contrivance where he leaves and then comes back
Speaker 3: three days later in spite of the fact that the
Speaker 3: one thing he asked for she blatantly ignored, which also
Speaker 3: made me be like, maybe he was right to be
Speaker 3: hailing her for a while because he's like, please just
Speaker 3: don't write about me and your blog right now, and
Speaker 3: then she did, and then he's like, actually, I don't care,
Speaker 3: and you're like, this is just bizarre.
Speaker 1: Is the implication being that, like she writes in a
Speaker 1: way that is like, I had a fight with my
Speaker 1: husband who wasn't being supportive enough, and then she deletes that,
Speaker 1: and then she writes in such a way that it's
Speaker 1: like she's acknowledging her own fault in the fight as
Speaker 1: it relates to what her husband is concerned about. And
Speaker 1: then reads that and he's like, Wow, she's acknowledging that
Speaker 1: she was wrong, and that's why I'm coming back to her.
Speaker 1: That's the impression I got, Yes.
Speaker 3: But it's like that also is so dissonant because he's
Speaker 3: reading about it because she didn't do what he asked.
Speaker 3: I think that they're both acting very weird in that sequence,
Speaker 3: and that it felt like a contrivance that this movie
Speaker 3: is too good for kind of I.
Speaker 4: Think like a kind of overall issue with the movie
Speaker 4: is that it doesn't affirm. It's very much about external
Speaker 4: validation on the Julie side, not on the Julia side.
Speaker 4: Julia is so confident in herself. But everything with Julie
Speaker 4: is she is performing like for her readers, huh, like
Speaker 4: I am, yes, I am a selfish person and a
Speaker 4: bad wife sometimes for her readers, and it's not for
Speaker 4: her husband. It's not for herself, right. And it's in
Speaker 4: that like ending monologue where Eric is like, the Julia
Speaker 4: in your head is what matters. It's still not about
Speaker 4: like finding confidence in your art and your life, in yourself.
Speaker 4: It's still this sort of manifestation of external validation. And
Speaker 4: throughout the movie her mother is like, this isn't important.
Speaker 4: She needs to know it's important herself, and that's kind
Speaker 4: of what their argument feels like it's about. But it
Speaker 4: doesn't land because she doesn't find value in the work
Speaker 4: she's doing because she's doing it. She still finds it
Speaker 4: because people are reading her.
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, which is again like that's an interesting thing
Speaker 3: to explore and so many I mean, I've been that
Speaker 3: writer at various points one hundred percent, Yeah, you're given
Speaker 3: something interesting, But then it turns into this bizarre the
Speaker 3: way it's like touched on it has to do with
Speaker 3: the relationship, and all of a sudden he seems threatened
Speaker 3: and frustrated by her, and he has never seemed that way,
Speaker 3: and we're like, what am I so about? Like am
Speaker 3: I supposed to think this was in him the whole time?
Speaker 3: And then like you're saying, Caitlin, like it's unclear, like
Speaker 3: does she owe anyone an apology in this situation? It
Speaker 3: feels more like this is a battle that needs to
Speaker 3: happen internally for her, and they turn it into a
Speaker 3: relationship battle instead in a way that's.
Speaker 1: Confusing hard to say.
Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah, I felt weird about that too.
Speaker 3: Other than that, though, it's like the two romantic relationships
Speaker 3: in this movie are pretty lovely.
Speaker 4: They're beautiful. They're like my favorite romantic relationships in movies,
Speaker 4: I think, especially.
Speaker 3: Merrily and Tucci.
Speaker 1: Come on, come on. Yeah, So paul and we've already
Speaker 1: talked about the level of privilege that Julia Child experiences
Speaker 1: that allows.
Speaker 3: Cia legendary, the Cia romance of the century.
Speaker 1: Right, But the thing with Paula is that like he's
Speaker 1: only ever shown to be completely supportive of Julia. He's
Speaker 1: never calling her narcissistic or anything like that, and that
Speaker 1: feels especially unusual considering this is like the nineteen forties
Speaker 1: slash fifties. This is when women were not encouraged to
Speaker 1: have careers, especially married women. So for him to be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: do whatever you want, Try make a hat, try cooking,
Speaker 1: do anything, and then she pursues that dream and he's
Speaker 1: like so supportive along the way. I'm curious to know
Speaker 1: if that's how that relationship actually manifested or not. But
Speaker 1: at least as far as what we see in the movie,
Speaker 1: Paul is like unwaveringly supportive of Julia Child and I
Speaker 1: appreciated seeing that. It's not as though other men around
Speaker 1: her are unwaveringly supportive, because you have that kind of
Speaker 1: series of scenes where she starts that cooking class at
Speaker 1: les codne Bleue and it's all men in the class,
Speaker 1: and it's all people who are like already professional chefs.
Speaker 1: I guess they're honing their skills or something. But they
Speaker 1: judge her.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: She says something like, you should have seen the way
Speaker 1: those men looked at me, like I'm just some frivolous
Speaker 1: housewife looking for a way to kill time, and that
Speaker 1: is probably what they assumed when they saw her. And
Speaker 1: she is shown having to put an extra effort and
Speaker 1: work extra hard to prove herself, the way that many
Speaker 1: women and marginalized people in general have to do to
Speaker 1: earn any level of respect or to have access to
Speaker 1: the same opportunities as their counterparts who are more privileged.
Speaker 1: And so we see Julia doing all of that extra
Speaker 1: work to try to like fit in and prove herself
Speaker 1: and all that stuff, and then a letter to Avis
Speaker 1: later on, she says something like, and now I'm way
Speaker 1: ahead of the others in my class, all men, all
Speaker 1: of them unfriendly, until they discovered that I was fearless.
Speaker 1: So then they come to respect her because she displays
Speaker 1: a trait that is traditionally considered masculine.
Speaker 3: Right, It's like you have to be exceptional to deserve
Speaker 3: respect kind of, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, she's brave and she's fearless. She's not
Speaker 1: this like, you know, quote unquote timid woman that the
Speaker 1: men expected her to be. But she's like, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: kill this lobster, and they're like, wow, she's so cool,
Speaker 1: and then she, you know, garners their respect. I thought
Speaker 1: all of that was, like, you know, not a huge
Speaker 1: part of the movie, but I'm glad it was touched
Speaker 1: on to some degree. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Again, it's like it's a very like rom commy way
Speaker 3: of touching on it, but it touches on it. I
Speaker 3: was curious more because again I just like mainly know
Speaker 3: about Julia Child through this movie and through what is
Speaker 3: largely considered to be a wildly historically inaccurate mini series. Yeah,
Speaker 3: there's literally a scene in the mini series where Betty
Speaker 3: Fridan yells at Julia Child and it is like you're
Speaker 3: not a real feminist, which never happened, and they're like, well,
Speaker 3: but like we wanted to explore, You're like, you can't
Speaker 3: do that, that's cheating. She was a person. Anyways, I
Speaker 3: was curious, especially after seeing how wildly like over the
Speaker 3: top the miniseries went, what Julia Child's relationship to feminism was,
Speaker 3: because she was prominent as second wave feminism was becoming
Speaker 3: a conversation and second wave feminism we can save that
Speaker 3: for another day. However, it was interesting where Julia Child
Speaker 3: never really allied herself with a feminist movement, but she
Speaker 3: also in her time caught some shit from feminist movements
Speaker 3: because it was characterized as like she's encouraging women to
Speaker 3: stay in the kitchen, which I see the thinking behind it.
Speaker 3: But I'm kind of grateful that most feminist movements have
Speaker 3: moved past that, because what Julia Child was doing, as
Speaker 3: we see in this spoofy, was extremely difficult for women
Speaker 3: to do, even with the degree of privilege that she had,
Speaker 3: And cooking does not have to be an inherently oppressive task,
Speaker 3: but it has been put on women in that way.
Speaker 3: But Julia Child was cooking for joy, she was producing
Speaker 3: her own stuff. She was like bi all accounts. I
Speaker 3: guess she was a reproductive rights champion, like she you know,
Speaker 3: wasn't a full blown feminist. But I think in her
Speaker 3: time was kind of unfairly criticized for pushing something that
Speaker 3: it didn't seem like she was ever pushing really, like
Speaker 3: she was a woman who enjoyed cooking and wanted to
Speaker 3: make a show about it, and it was I don't know,
Speaker 3: I think kind of like unfairly politicized to make her
Speaker 3: look worse.
Speaker 4: I think cooking and having the ability to cook and
Speaker 4: the skills to cook well and in a way that
Speaker 4: is like pleasurable, like you're creating something for yourself that
Speaker 4: is good and creating something for others that is good.
Speaker 4: There's very interesting conversations around that being like a bougie
Speaker 4: thing or a privileged thing when it feels like it
Speaker 4: should just be the most basic human right, like knowing
Speaker 4: how to use ingredients, where to get them from, how
Speaker 4: to use them, and to nourish yourself and others. It
Speaker 4: is a very interesting, contentious sort of conversation, and you know,
Speaker 4: there's degrees of course, like again, like having ten hours
Speaker 4: a day to slow cook something is a different kind
Speaker 4: of conversation. But the act of cooking and being able
Speaker 4: to cook for yourself and especially not relying on you know,
Speaker 4: like the scene when they're in the first publisher meeting
Speaker 4: and they have the book of like the Quick Houselife
Speaker 4: kind of things. I think being able to break out
Speaker 4: of sort of mass consumerism notions of feeding yourself and
Speaker 4: food is a radical act and not just you know,
Speaker 4: not to say like Julia Child's methods are radical that.
Speaker 4: I think that a lot of relationships in like anarchist
Speaker 4: food movements is knowing what you're using, how to use it,
Speaker 4: and how to not use things that are destroying the
Speaker 4: planet in our bodies right.
Speaker 1: Well, there's also a difference between the expectation for women
Speaker 1: to do these domestic chores such as cooking and you know,
Speaker 1: nurturing and nourishing her husbands and children and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: and cooking as a career because historically men are chefs,
Speaker 1: women are housewives who cook for their family.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So for her to pursue being a professional chef,
Speaker 1: and as we see in that scene where she like
Speaker 1: goes to that class with other professional chefs who are
Speaker 1: all men, and like, that's still a cultural thing, but
Speaker 1: it was certainly more pronounced back then. So for her
Speaker 1: to be like, yeah, I'm a woman, but I'm like
Speaker 1: a professional chef who can teach it, who can like
Speaker 1: create my own recipes and like sort of innovate different
Speaker 1: ways to do certain things like that was not the
Speaker 1: most common thing for women to be doing back then.
Speaker 1: So again, the movie doesn't necessarily like examine that that thoroughly,
Speaker 1: but you know, just from the context that we know
Speaker 1: about it, it's like, oh, that is cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think there's so many ways to look
Speaker 3: at what Julia Child. I don't know, it seems like
Speaker 3: we're all fans in the chat, but like there's like
Speaker 3: so many ways to sort of talk about it. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I feel like what a lot of the criticism of
Speaker 3: her missed was also that, like, what she's doing is
Speaker 3: cool from a class standpoint. She's teaching you how to
Speaker 3: make fancy seeming food that I think a lot of
Speaker 3: people with less money would assume that they wouldn't be
Speaker 3: able to have at home. And you know, her whole
Speaker 3: thing was anyone can cook very ratitudey yet in that way,
Speaker 3: like anyone can cook with ingredients that are affordable. I
Speaker 3: mean the real cost is time. But also that she's
Speaker 3: broadcasting on PBS, so anyone can watch her do it, Like,
Speaker 3: I think that from a class standpoint, while she benefits
Speaker 3: from all this privilege, like in her later career, she
Speaker 3: kind of pays it forward by making what she's learned
Speaker 3: very accessible and that's really cool too.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: There's also a small conversation that the movie kind of
Speaker 1: has in regards to who the cookbook is targeted toward,
Speaker 1: because it's specifically for American housewives who don't have servants
Speaker 1: to cook for them, and this is like nineteen fifties,
Speaker 1: like to me, peak housewife.
Speaker 3: Era, particularly like white housewives culture.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so the publishers of the book in the
Speaker 1: various scenes where you know, they're meeting with publishers and
Speaker 1: being like, well, this isn't gonna work because housewives want
Speaker 1: something quick and easy and this book is seven hundred
Speaker 1: pages of sauce recipes and like how is that? And
Speaker 1: so there's like this battle that the characters have to
Speaker 1: deal with as far as like catering to the specific
Speaker 1: demographic that has all of these like gender roles and
Speaker 1: engendered presumptions, you know, foisted upon them, right, and.
Speaker 3: Like how the people telling her who her book is
Speaker 3: for is a room full of men?
Speaker 4: You're right, yeah, yeah, you don't want to work with
Speaker 4: someone who belittles your assumed audience, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3: She's cool. I love that Meryl Street played her.
Speaker 4: She's so good at it.
Speaker 3: I just wish she had gotten to do it for
Speaker 3: the whole movie. Sorry, Julie, I just wish it be
Speaker 3: the whole movie.
Speaker 4: I think the gender dynamics with Julie and Eric as
Speaker 4: well are interesting in that she cooks dinner for them
Speaker 4: truly because she likes it. At least the movie doesn't
Speaker 4: sort of imply that she's doing it because she is
Speaker 4: the wife, right. I don't remember how that's depicted in
Speaker 4: her book or in real life, and you know, there's
Speaker 4: always going to be the pressures of who does that
Speaker 4: in a heterosexual relationship, but it sort of kind of
Speaker 4: knocks it out of the way that it's like she's
Speaker 4: doing this because she finds joy in it, and they
Speaker 4: both eat such like gusto the way that like Christmasina
Speaker 4: eats is like kind of gross, but it's.
Speaker 1: So too enthusiastic.
Speaker 4: You're having so much fun.
Speaker 3: He's going for it. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it feels like a good kind of like efficient
Speaker 4: way to kind of knock that, like she's doing this
Speaker 4: because she thinks cooking is fun.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, sir. Anything else that y'all wanted to touch on for.
Speaker 4: I want to talk about parasociality, Yes, yes, let's do it.
Speaker 4: I mean I am someone who gets hyper fixated on
Speaker 4: things pretty easily, and that often lends itself towards parasocial relationships.
Speaker 4: And it is something that is when I was a teenager,
Speaker 4: is quite damaging to your psyche. The belief of people
Speaker 4: that you do not know are your friends or oh
Speaker 4: anything to you outside of maybe like if you saw
Speaker 4: them on the street, maybe a basic respect as you
Speaker 4: would treat your other human kind of thing. But I'm
Speaker 4: so fascinated with the way that this movie decides in
Speaker 4: the end. What is good in these sort of relationships,
Speaker 4: both with Julie and Julia and then Julie towards her readers.
Speaker 4: The reliance on her readers for validation, as well as
Speaker 4: the continued like mantra of you're not a writer until
Speaker 4: you're published, so interesting, people don't say that anymore. The
Speaker 4: over affirmation of you're a writer if you write is
Speaker 4: very prevalent. Also, you're a writer if you don't write,
Speaker 4: and if you just want to, you know. But I
Speaker 4: walk away with it with feeling very strange. You know.
Speaker 4: I do think that thinking that someone you look up
Speaker 4: to doesn't respect your work is quite crushing. And I
Speaker 4: think a lot about in a Gilmore Girls when Mitcham
Speaker 4: tells Rory she's not a journalist and she steals a boat, Like,
Speaker 4: I think that's appropriate response.
Speaker 3: Yeah, On my most recent rewatch, I was like, wow,
Speaker 3: I really turned on her when she did that the
Speaker 3: first time, but the benefit of time, like it was
Speaker 3: a victimless crime. Everyone should steal a boat, I think,
Speaker 3: so a hero.
Speaker 4: But in the case of this, like, I don't know
Speaker 4: what does it mean to value the image of someone
Speaker 4: in your head over their actual personhood. If she did
Speaker 4: meet Julia in real life and they did have some
Speaker 4: sort of working relationship, I think Julie Powell went on
Speaker 4: to do like a Julia Child show on Food Network
Speaker 4: or something I don't know, maybe like a docu series
Speaker 4: or something I don't quite remember. But what does it
Speaker 4: mean to hold on to that? And I think it
Speaker 4: is dehumanizing in a way that in this case seems
Speaker 4: harmless in the context of a film, but can have
Speaker 4: greater rampifications towards celebrity, towards art, like what do we
Speaker 4: expect from someone? And I don't know, can you continue
Speaker 4: a relationship with the person in your head if the
Speaker 4: real person does something legitimately harmful?
Speaker 3: H It's really tricky. I don't know. Like the movie
Speaker 3: has a very light touch with it, and I find
Speaker 3: it a little frustrating. But I'm also like, that is
Speaker 3: such a especially in two thousand and nine, if like
Speaker 3: that conversation, like was it even really happening? Yeah, And
Speaker 3: I've been in the position of Julie as well, where
Speaker 3: it's like you're really evangelizing about someone whose work you
Speaker 3: really love, that truly been informative to you, and then
Speaker 3: to find out, you know, it's different. To find out
Speaker 3: who they really are is troubling or even just not
Speaker 3: who you doesn't square with what your image of them was.
Speaker 3: I think on this viewing what I felt. I really
Speaker 3: felt for Julie because it wasn't like she was actively
Speaker 3: asking what Julia Child thought, Like she sort of found
Speaker 3: out what Julia Child thought about the project against her will,
Speaker 3: which is a risk, you know, doing it and it
Speaker 3: become But I really felt for her where it wasn't
Speaker 3: like she was banging down Julia Child's door being like,
Speaker 3: do you like me?
Speaker 1: She just got a cold?
Speaker 3: Was like, hey, just so you know she doesn't like
Speaker 3: that is devastating, yes, you know. But also on the
Speaker 3: Julia Child part, what is her responsibility to Julie Powell,
Speaker 3: who objectively, I mean, we could talk about this in
Speaker 3: the context of this very show, like if we found
Speaker 3: out Alison Bechdel fucking hated us, right, it would hurt,
Speaker 3: but we would have to deal, you know, like it's
Speaker 3: not like us doing this show for seven years doesn't
Speaker 3: invite some sort of response from her should she choose
Speaker 3: to And yeah, it is like that parasocial question of
Speaker 3: like how do you navigate? Like how can you love?
Speaker 4: So?
Speaker 3: Because I think what Julia is doing is beautiful in
Speaker 3: its way where it's like she's drawing inspiration from another
Speaker 3: person to navigate a really hard portion in like her life,
Speaker 3: and that's what art can do and that's amazing. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and you know, I guess the only way to get
Speaker 3: around it is to just never become famous enough for
Speaker 3: the person to hear about what you're up to, and
Speaker 3: then you're safe. But I don't think Julia Child owes
Speaker 3: her anything because at that point, Julie Powell is profiting
Speaker 3: off of perceived proximity between the two of them, which
Speaker 3: is also a valid discussion to have. But I also
Speaker 3: like feel really awful when Julie finds out that Julia
Speaker 3: doesn't like her against her will. That is devastating, I
Speaker 3: don't know, complicated. Yeah, Anyways, anyone who has a parasocial
Speaker 3: relationship with any of the three of us, we're so normal.
Speaker 1: And cool, we're so and actually, well to tie it
Speaker 1: all together, if anyone wants to see me in Paris
Speaker 1: because you feel like you have a parasocial relationship with
Speaker 1: me and you're a fan of my comedy Harris Social whoa.
Speaker 1: I can't even continue after hearing that, but I will.
Speaker 1: I will be doing some stand up comedy in Paris
Speaker 1: in early May, ahead of the Shrektannic tour that Jamie
Speaker 1: and I are doing. But I'm going to Paris early
Speaker 1: and I'm doing comedy, so everyone should come and see me. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm just plugging my shows.
Speaker 3: I'm going to Paris after the tour. Wow, and leave
Speaker 3: me alone, I talk. I don't want to. I want
Speaker 3: to be alone. I want to be alone.
Speaker 1: Fair. That's totally fair. Okay, any other thoughts or No,
Speaker 1: that's everything I had.
Speaker 3: I don't totally mean that. I mean it like mostly though.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's fine.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, let's see, let's see. I think that's everything
Speaker 3: that I had. Honestly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm good.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I could talk about parasastional relationships forever. But then
Speaker 3: sometimes it works out because that's like how like I
Speaker 3: admired your work before we I met, Like it all
Speaker 3: kind of worked out.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I fully had a para social relation with the book.
Speaker 4: If you're been a listener to this podcast.
Speaker 3: And now you're here, wow, yeah, and look at us.
Speaker 4: Sometimes it's fine.
Speaker 3: Well, folks, this movie passes the Bechdel test a whole lot.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, all the time. It's mostly women talking about
Speaker 3: food and publishing deals. Yes, what a life kind of rocks.
Speaker 4: Oh wait, okay, the missus Joy of Cooking paid fifty
Speaker 4: seven thousand dollars. I got her book public.
Speaker 3: I can't poor.
Speaker 1: What was her name, Irmaurma rum Bar.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that scene was so. I didn't fact
Speaker 3: check any of that, but like, so, yeah, that was
Speaker 3: like such a great Nora Ephron scene where it was
Speaker 3: just like, I feel like Nora Efro movies sometimes you're like,
Speaker 3: and here's women being really weird to each other for
Speaker 3: five minutes. You're like, all right, so good. It was awesome.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yes, it does pass the Bechdel test lots
Speaker 1: and lots, but as far as the one true metric
Speaker 1: are Nipple scale, where we rate the movie on a
Speaker 1: scale of zero to five nipples based on examining the
Speaker 1: movie through an intersectional feminist lens. Like I said, I
Speaker 1: appreciate that the movie is about women finding purpose and
Speaker 1: pursuing inactivity that they love, and they have men around
Speaker 1: them who are supportive and to some extent friends around
Speaker 1: them who are supportive, except when it's Casey Wilson and
Speaker 1: all the mean girl bosses I.
Speaker 3: Love us, Like wow, Peak twenty twelve is Casey Wilson
Speaker 3: in one scene and you're like, should have been more.
Speaker 3: I love Casey Wilson.
Speaker 1: So on the surface, you know, there's some nice things
Speaker 1: going for the movie that I appreciate. But as we've discussed,
Speaker 1: there's other things that the movie either kind of glosses
Speaker 1: over and doesn't examine very thoroughly in a very like
Speaker 1: Nora Fron movie kind of way, such as like the
Speaker 1: class component and the level of privilege that the women
Speaker 1: and especially Julia Child had access to that allowed her
Speaker 1: to do all of these things. Because like, yeah, this
Speaker 1: conversation is happening.
Speaker 3: More and more.
Speaker 1: I see a lot of it, just like you know
Speaker 1: people on TikTok and Instagram examining how like oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: the things that we used to think were like a
Speaker 1: brave thing to do, like ooh, you moved to a
Speaker 1: new city, or you pursued this dream of yours or
Speaker 1: you did X y Z. It's not because you were
Speaker 1: like brave, It's because you had access to money that
Speaker 1: enabled you to do that. And that feels very much
Speaker 1: like the Julia Child of it all. But in any case,
Speaker 1: you know, there's things like that, there's the one character
Speaker 1: of color who has five seconds of screen time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: things like that. I do appreciate Julia Child's relationship with
Speaker 1: her sister Dorothy. I would have liked to see more
Speaker 1: of it. They seem really sweet together. So it's things
Speaker 1: like that. It's different relationships and again, women pursuing their
Speaker 1: dreams that I like to see. But it is a
Speaker 1: very like middle to upper middle class white woman version
Speaker 1: of all of that without the movie like really acknowledging
Speaker 1: any of it. So there's that, and with that in mind,
Speaker 1: I'll give the movie maybe like two and a half
Speaker 1: or three nipples. So I think is where I'm landing,
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna give them all to Julie's Orange Cat.
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm gonna go higher. I think I'm going to
Speaker 3: go three point seven five. Wow. Because I agree with
Speaker 3: everything that you said, Caitlin. I think the whiteness of
Speaker 3: this movie is undeniable. It's like showing you class, but
Speaker 3: not the kind of just leaving everything on the table,
Speaker 3: if you will.
Speaker 1: Right next to the bechamel sauce.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. But this movie is written and directed by
Speaker 3: one of our most iconic women directors and also based
Speaker 3: on the writings of two women, you know, And I
Speaker 3: think that that is unusual enough, and also the fact
Speaker 3: that this movie did very well. It's uneven and in
Speaker 3: some ways flat out weird, but I think that there
Speaker 3: is a lot being explored here. A lot of it
Speaker 3: isn't fully explored. But yeah, sorry about women and like
Speaker 3: their ambition and how that ambition is interpreted in different
Speaker 3: historical periods. There's like little touches where you don't really
Speaker 3: get a lot of beats about fertility in movies that
Speaker 3: doesn't then consume the whole movie, where you're shown like
Speaker 3: this is an element of Julia Child's life, but it
Speaker 3: doesn't define her. What defines her is her relationship to
Speaker 3: people and her relationship to her work. And I thought
Speaker 3: that was like a very subtle and well done. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's all over the place, but I feel like there's
Speaker 3: a lot to love here, and yeah, so I'm gonna
Speaker 3: give it three point seventy five. Maybe that's too many,
Speaker 3: but it's just how I'm feeling today. I'm gonna give
Speaker 3: one to Jane Lynch. I'm gonna give one to Merril.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna give one to mary Lynn rys Cub and
Speaker 3: I'm gonna give the rest to Simca. Yeah, nice Summer.
Speaker 4: I think I will go three point five. It is
Speaker 4: a movie about two real white women, and so I
Speaker 4: think my expectations towards racial diversity is like, well, that's
Speaker 4: kind of probably who they filled their life with. But yeah,
Speaker 4: similar reasons. I think that there's like a hint of
Speaker 4: class analysis. I think it is mostly beautiful and loving
Speaker 4: towards the act of cooking and what it means in
Speaker 4: a gendered capacity. I will give all of my nipples
Speaker 4: to Judith Jones because I love women who edit books
Speaker 4: as a woman who is technically an editor, an unemployed one,
Speaker 4: but someone.
Speaker 3: You are an editor.
Speaker 4: God damn, this is my sister in arms in book publishing.
Speaker 4: But uh, I want to recommend a book to your listeners.
Speaker 3: Yes, is it Raw Dog?
Speaker 4: Okay? So I mean I do have a food writing
Speaker 4: section on my shelf, and I do have Raw Dog
Speaker 4: next to a book by Alicia Kennedy called No Meat Required,
Speaker 4: and it's a really beautiful dichotomy of a book about
Speaker 4: like cultural history of plant based eating next to it
Speaker 4: Raw Dog, which I love. But it is called Tastemakers
Speaker 4: by mayk Sen and it is a group biography of
Speaker 4: seven immigrant women who change cooking in America. And so
Speaker 4: if you're interested in non white women who kind of
Speaker 4: created foundational texts in culinary history in the US and
Speaker 4: introduce different cuisines to home cooks, I would highly recommend it.
Speaker 4: It's beautiful. There is a little Julia Child interlude in it,
Speaker 4: just to kind of affirm her importance as a not
Speaker 4: immigrant women, but kind of the reverberations of her influence
Speaker 4: on those who came around and after her.
Speaker 3: I just placed a hold on it at the library. Wow, brave,
Speaker 3: shout out the libraries.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really good.
Speaker 3: And tell us before you go, please tell us about
Speaker 3: your book, which is currently out. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I wrote a checkbook of poems that are inspired by
Speaker 4: the legend of Zelda. They are weird and sad and
Speaker 4: about Palestine. And yeah, you can get them on gameover
Speaker 4: books dot com or you can check in with your
Speaker 4: local bookstore. They should be able to order it. And
Speaker 4: I'm doing a mini tour. I'll be reading in la
Speaker 4: in March, late March, and then maybe I'll you know,
Speaker 4: I'll be around but Yeah, it's my first book with
Speaker 4: an ISBN and so I'm very happy.
Speaker 1: Oh congrats, I'm.
Speaker 3: So excited to read it. Congratulations And where can people?
Speaker 1: Where can people establish a parasocial relationship with you online?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Please find me at Borders bookstore on Instagram.
Speaker 3: Someone had to take up the mantle.
Speaker 4: Yeah, if Borders ever makes a comeback, they owe me
Speaker 4: a two point five million dollars for the handle O
Speaker 4: me I else play with it.
Speaker 3: That's the only way that we're going to be able
Speaker 3: to be home owners is by getting the good handles and.
Speaker 4: Then Twitter and far more active at.
Speaker 1: Some a this nice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, thank you so much for coming on this show.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me come back anytime please, Yes.
Speaker 4: Hopefully I can come back for the Zelda movie.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. Yes, you're both gonna have to school
Speaker 3: me because I know that you're both well versed.
Speaker 1: I just restarted Tears of the Kingdom because I'm sad
Speaker 1: and I was like, I need something that I can
Speaker 1: do for ten to fourteen hours a day, all in
Speaker 1: one chunk to take my mind off of that. So
Speaker 1: I'm replaying Tiers of the Kingdom. Brag anyway. You can
Speaker 1: follow us at Bechdelcast on social media. And speaking of tours,
Speaker 1: we will be in London, Oxford, Manchester and Edinburgh and
Speaker 1: we're doing the Shrek Tannic Tour. What does that mean. Well,
Speaker 1: sometimes we're doing a Titanic show, sometimes we're doing a
Speaker 1: Shrek show.
Speaker 3: Not that complicated.
Speaker 1: You'll just have to go link tree slash Bechtel Cast
Speaker 1: to find out more details. But we will be doing
Speaker 1: those shows in May and then, like I said, I'll
Speaker 1: be doing stand up in Paris, Berlin, I'm working on
Speaker 1: some shows in Copenhagen. I don't know if you know
Speaker 1: anything about the Copenhagen comedy scene, listeners, please.
Speaker 3: Let me know.
Speaker 1: I'm also going to be doing some shows in Dublin,
Speaker 1: so be on the lookout for all of those.
Speaker 3: And you can also always sign up for our Patreon
Speaker 3: aka Matreon, where you get for five bucks a month,
Speaker 3: access to two new episodes that are exclusive, usually just
Speaker 3: me and Caitlin, and access to one hundred and fifty
Speaker 3: episodes of back catalog. If you can imagine, we're doing
Speaker 3: a bunch of classic movies this month. And you can
Speaker 3: also get our merch over at teapublic dot com, slash
Speaker 3: v Bechdel Cast. Follow us on Instagram or Twitter. If
Speaker 3: you're so inclined, you'll know how to find us. And
Speaker 3: with that, oh, actually, wait, Summer, you're gonna be like
Speaker 3: Julia Child at the end of the movie today when
Speaker 3: you open your book for the first time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh my gosh, I'm doing my own boxing.
Speaker 3: And you're gonna have your Julia moments and there will
Speaker 3: be a freeze frame.
Speaker 1: For no reason. I love it.
Speaker 3: It's the club for some reason.
Speaker 4: Sure.
Speaker 1: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by
Speaker 1: Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited
Speaker 1: by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike
Speaker 1: Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Vosskrosenski. Our logo in merch
Speaker 1: is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to
Speaker 1: Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit
Speaker 1: link tree slash Bechdel Cast.