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Speaker 1: Hello listeners, big announcement. We have officially added the Dublin

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Speaker 1: show to our Shrek Tannic tour, so come see us

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Speaker 1: in Dublin on May twenty ninth at the Irish Film Institute.

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Speaker 1: We are covering Titanic and we are so excited to

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Speaker 1: be able to finally confirm and announce that show, so

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Speaker 1: please come to it. And then, speaking of Dublin, I

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Speaker 1: am putting on a stand up comedy show in Dublin

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Speaker 1: on my birthday on May seventeenth at Hysteria Comedy Club.

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Speaker 1: There are going to be some amazing local comedians on

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Speaker 1: the lineup, and then I'll be doing a longer stand

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Speaker 1: up set, so please come to that as well. It's

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Speaker 1: my birthday, so you kind of have to be there.

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Speaker 1: And then we'll all go out for a little birthday

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Speaker 1: pint at a birthday pub after the show. It's gonna

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Speaker 1: be so much fun. And then tickets are of course

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Speaker 1: still available for the rest of the tour. The two

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Speaker 1: shows in London on May twenty second, the show show

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Speaker 1: in Oxford as a part of the Saint Audio Podcast

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Speaker 1: Festival on May twenty fourth, the show in Edinburgh on

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Speaker 1: May twenty sixth, and the show in Manchester on May

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Speaker 1: twenty eighth, and then again Dublin on May twenty ninth.

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Speaker 1: All of the ticket links for all of these shows

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Speaker 1: can be found at link tree slash Bechdel Cast. We're

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Speaker 1: so excited and we can't wait to see you there.

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Speaker 2: On the Bechde Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 2: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 2: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zephim fast

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Speaker 2: start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 1: Bojo Bojo, bonapadie.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, this movie is so silly. I think

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Speaker 3: my favorite part in the movie is when Jane Lynch

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Speaker 3: and Meryl Streeper are just yelling in muppet voices for

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Speaker 3: like twenty seconds and they're.

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Speaker 1: Like, whooooooo.

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Speaker 3: You're like that is sort of like the experience of

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Speaker 3: having a sibling, but just like on a noise strictly

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Speaker 3: noise level. I love it. I love it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love their sister relationship.

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Speaker 3: Can you imagine how thrilled Jane Lynch must be every

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Speaker 3: time they're making a movie about a woman that's sticks

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Speaker 3: to like She's like, I'm in a cast. Done. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you can't not put her in a movie that requires

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Speaker 3: there's So, okay, let's can we start. I'm just excited.

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Speaker 3: Name's chef Jamie.

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Speaker 1: Oh, and my name is Chef Caitlin. And this is

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Speaker 1: the Bechdel cast. Although so we get this sent to

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Speaker 1: us a lot where people are like, if one something

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Speaker 1: something cooking ingredient speaks to another blah blah blah, but

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Speaker 1: then it passes the Bechamel test.

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Speaker 3: What maybe I don't read the messages we get.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm saying it correctly. Bechamel sauce

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Speaker 1: question mark.

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Speaker 3: Is a thing, right, Okay.

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Speaker 1: And there's this like I don't know meme where people

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Speaker 1: are like if one something or other talks to another

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Speaker 1: something other because bechamel looks very close to Bechdel when

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Speaker 1: it's spelled out just a few extra letters, so people

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Speaker 1: are like ha ha ha. And so I feel like

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Speaker 1: this episode, this movie is the most relevant episode to

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Speaker 1: bring that up on.

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Speaker 3: It's true, we did it, we did it.

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Speaker 1: Do I know what bechamel sauce is or what any

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Speaker 1: of the ingredients are? Absolutely not?

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Speaker 3: Wait, what's your not to be? Like first day of college?

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Speaker 3: But like, what's your favorite food? What's your favorite food?

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Speaker 3: Ice breaker time?

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I don't even know how to answer

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Speaker 1: that question. I love food, though I eat it every day.

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Speaker 3: I'm realizing I don't think I know the answer to either.

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Speaker 3: I think obviously hot dogs hot dog from Waltz. But

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Speaker 3: I think all So is the Philadelphia role the least

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Speaker 3: respected sushi role because it's my favorite. I feel like

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Speaker 3: sushi heads are like, sure, you know, but I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I might be projecting.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's very tasty, but I feel like it

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Speaker 1: might be like a very like American eyed bastardized.

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Speaker 3: Kind of for babies. A little bit could be well,

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Speaker 3: I like it, Wait what's in it?

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Speaker 1: Salmon, cucumber and cream cheese?

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Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, and.

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Speaker 3: The cream cheese. I think the cream cheese is where

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Speaker 3: they're like, do you really need it? And like I

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Speaker 3: need it badly. It's important.

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Speaker 1: I want my sushi to taste like a bagel.

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Speaker 3: Yes, exactly.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, So yeah, I don't know. I mean, I love food.

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Speaker 1: Indian cuisine is probably my top, but also I loved

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Speaker 1: Taigh food, and also I love sushi, and also I

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Speaker 1: love Mexican food, and I love Peruvian food, and I

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Speaker 1: love French food, and I love Brazil. I like basically

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Speaker 1: every food.

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Speaker 3: Wow, I always forget until I rewatch this movie what

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Speaker 3: we mean when we say French food. So that's okay. Anyways,

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Speaker 3: great opening to the episode. This is the Bechdel Cast,

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Speaker 3: where we talk about your favorite movies using an intersectional

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Speaker 3: feminist lens. But Caitlin, we don't know what the Bechamel

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Speaker 3: test is because we have unrefined palettes. But what's the

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Speaker 3: Bechtel test?

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Speaker 1: The Bechdel test is a media metric commonly called the

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Speaker 1: Bechdel Wallace test because it was sort of co created

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Speaker 1: by Allison Bechdel and Liz Wallace, and it is a

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Speaker 1: media metric that has many different versions. The one that

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Speaker 1: we use is do two characters of a marginalized gender?

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Speaker 1: Do they have names? Do they speak to each other?

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Speaker 1: And is the conversation about something other than a man?

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Speaker 1: And then a little caveat that we like to add,

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Speaker 1: is is it a narratively relevant conversation or is it

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Speaker 1: kind of throwaway dialogue? So that is the Bechdel test,

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Speaker 1: the Bechamel test, We don't know, but yeah, let's introduce

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Speaker 1: our guests. Yeah, we're so excited to have her. She

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Speaker 1: is a Palestinian American poet and author of the book

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Speaker 1: I Could Die Today and Live Again with Game Over Books.

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Speaker 1: It just came out. It's Summer, Farrah.

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Speaker 4: Hello, welcome, Thank you for having me. I'm so excited

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Speaker 4: to talk about this movie.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, we're so excited. What is your relationship

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Speaker 1: with this movie?

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Speaker 3: To Julie, to Julia? Also, we're covering Julia and Julia.

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Speaker 3: Have we said that yet?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, probably didn't say it recovering Julia.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, Summer, was your history with this movie or

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Speaker 3: to either of the food people women in it? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: So I did not say this when it came out

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Speaker 4: in theaters, but I think my family rented it on

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Speaker 4: DVD as soon as it did come out, and basically

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Speaker 4: since then, I don't know. I think that was like

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Speaker 4: twenty ten. Maybe it was on the DVD. I've it

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Speaker 4: every year since. It is my biggest comfort movie, and

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Speaker 4: it also has shaped a lot of like it was

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Speaker 4: my first exposure to food writing, I think, and like

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Speaker 4: understanding food writing is something that people do and care about.

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Speaker 4: And I mean, I'm not a food writer, but I

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Speaker 4: am a poet who writes a lot about food. Both

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Speaker 4: in my poetry and in my critical work on poetry,

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Speaker 4: I look at food as image and motif, and I

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Speaker 4: think cooking and the kind of culinary stuff is very

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Speaker 4: important to like my identity formation as a Palestinian, very

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Speaker 4: like kind of typical daughter of immigrants, like my mom

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Speaker 4: cooks food for our culture, and those are the only

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Speaker 4: words I know in Arabic kind of things. But yeah,

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Speaker 4: and I think a lot of this movie kind of

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Speaker 4: made me start thinking about that critically and like, oh, well,

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Speaker 4: this is actually something that could be important out side

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Speaker 4: of the home, in the kitchen, And then I think

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Speaker 4: later now when I watch it, I think about parasocial relationships.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, it's a movie.

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Speaker 4: About parasocial relationships and how they're good.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, to be determined.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, if we're going to figure it out today. Yeah, wait,

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Speaker 3: so we just get to ask you what is your

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Speaker 3: favorite food?

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, oh goshm okay, top of my head, shishbrook,

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Speaker 4: which is like lamb dumplings cooked in yogurt broth, is

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Speaker 4: my favorite food. It is it's not that labor intensive,

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Speaker 4: but it's more labor intensive than like other things, because

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Speaker 4: you gotta like make the little dumplings and fill them.

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Speaker 4: But it's so good. The broth is like with garlic

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Speaker 4: and lemon and mint, and it is my favorite food

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Speaker 4: in the world.

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Speaker 3: God, that sounds incredible.

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Speaker 4: And most of the time our restaurants do not have it,

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Speaker 4: and so it's very much a thing that I only

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Speaker 4: have at home. But yeah, and so now I write

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Speaker 4: a lot of poems about parasocial relationships because I want

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Speaker 4: to recover from them, and so this movie is like,

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Speaker 4: it's got everything for me.

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Speaker 1: Nice Jamie, What is your relationship with the movie?

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Speaker 3: I saw this movie when it came out. I don't

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Speaker 3: remember if it was in theaters or shortly after, but

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Speaker 3: this was a movie I definitely saw when it came out.

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Speaker 3: I was sort of wondering, I think that they're like

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Speaker 3: on the rewatch because I haven't seen this movie in years,

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Speaker 3: but I think I have seen it like four or

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Speaker 3: five times now. It's a fun movie to have on

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Speaker 3: and I was wondering, I'm like, is this the viewing

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Speaker 3: that Julie is gonna win me over? And I also

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Speaker 3: like want to be careful to separate real life Julie

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Speaker 3: from movie Julie. And this was not the time I

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Speaker 3: feel like since I saw this movie for the first time,

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Speaker 3: I was just like, Wow, this Adam's story keeps interrupting

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Speaker 3: this Meryl Streep story that I'm way more interested in.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, I still honestly do sort of feel that way.

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Speaker 3: Every time they cut back to Amy Adams in that

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Speaker 3: goddamn wig, I'm like, here we go and the wig

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Speaker 3: is I have questions about the wig that we need

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Speaker 3: to talk about the Wig. However, I really like this movie.

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Speaker 3: I think, especially talking about it in the context of

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Speaker 3: this show, there's a ton to talk about. I'm really

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Speaker 3: interested in Julia Child's life. I couldn't get through. Did

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Speaker 3: either of you give the new HBO series from last

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Speaker 3: year a try?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought it was weird, and.

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Speaker 4: Well, we can talk about it later if it's not.

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Speaker 3: I mean, like, watching that make me appreciate Julia and

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Speaker 3: Julia Moore because ultimately we got Meryl Streep playing Julia

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Speaker 3: Child like that feels like a victory in and of itself.

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Speaker 3: And this is Nora Frown's final movie, and I think,

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Speaker 3: like Norah f on Is, I don't know, like so

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Speaker 3: many themes from her work and her writing are coming

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Speaker 3: together in this movie. Whether I like Julie or Not,

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Speaker 3: where it's like women turning their lives around and women

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Speaker 3: connecting with food and the cities they live in, and

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Speaker 3: you know, very little diversity, just like things that are

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Speaker 3: inherent to the Nora Efron canon. And I love nor

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Speaker 3: ef I especially, I think more so than any of

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Speaker 3: her movies. I really love her essay collections the most.

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Speaker 3: Everyone should listen to a Nora Efron audio book. They're

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Speaker 3: very soothing. But yeah, my issues with this movie have

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Speaker 3: been very consistent, but I think they are really fun

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Speaker 3: to talk about because you get to be like, you're

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Speaker 3: never gonna believe what Amy Adams character talks about all

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Speaker 3: day at work, and it is nine to eleven. You

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Speaker 3: don't expect nine to eleven to be such a major

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Speaker 3: plot point in the Julia Child movie, but that's why

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Speaker 3: this movie's built different. Caitlin, what's your history with this movie?

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Speaker 1: I will tell you in a second, but first I

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Speaker 1: looked up Bechamel sauce. Oh my god, I'm gonna tell

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Speaker 1: you what it is in my finest Julie Child impression.

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Speaker 1: Bechamel sauce is one of the mother sauces of French cuisine.

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Speaker 1: This sauce is made from a white roue and milk

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Speaker 1: seasoned with ground nutmeg. The main ingredients are butter, flour

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Speaker 1: and milk. The end. That's what I pulled from Wikipia.

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Speaker 4: That was really good.

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Speaker 3: We're standing and cheering. That's pretty good.

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Speaker 4: Anyway.

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Speaker 1: My relationship with this movie, I had seen it once before,

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Speaker 1: not long after it came out, and I was like, wow,

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Speaker 1: I like Meryl Streep.

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Speaker 3: You're also part of the movie Julie Hater Patrol.

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Speaker 1: Well, sorry if this is blasphemy, but I've never been

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Speaker 1: a fan of Amy Adams. I find her a bit

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Speaker 1: irritating most roles she's in.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, everyone really fucked up to say.

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Speaker 1: I can't help it.

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Speaker 3: We've done a whole Amy Adams months on the Patreon

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Speaker 3: and we've never talked about this.

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Speaker 1: Wait did we?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we did Amy Adams. She can do it all month?

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Speaker 1: Oh whoa wait?

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Speaker 3: Okay, arrival and enchanted because she can do it all.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I guess I was just like holding my tongue

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Speaker 1: because I was like.

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Speaker 3: This is shocking to me. This was like two years ago.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember now, but yeah, I don't know. I've

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Speaker 1: always found her a bit I don't know, just not

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Speaker 1: for me, not for me.

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Speaker 3: Look, it's okay, speaker truth, thank you.

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Speaker 4: Really brave to come forward with.

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Speaker 3: That, honestly, really brave because Amy Adams fans don't fuck around.

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Speaker 3: There's like a whole section of YouTube that's dedicated to

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Speaker 3: discussing why Amy Adams does not yet have an oscar.

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Speaker 3: And I've watched a lot of videos.

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Speaker 1: Well, don't ask me that question because I'll be mean

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Speaker 1: about it anyway. But I do love Meryl Streep and

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Speaker 1: I love Stanley Tucci, so I'm having fun when they're

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Speaker 1: on screen. I generally like the movie, you know, I

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Speaker 1: like Nora Efron's work, and I'm excited to talk about it.

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Speaker 1: Although if it's a movie about like French food making,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna choose Chaco Lot every time. I mean, okay,

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Speaker 1: Alfred Molina alert.

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Speaker 3: For Velina Chocolate coma like hard to top. I think

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Speaker 3: that there's like a bunch of actor parings in this movie,

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Speaker 3: where like Meryl Streep had just worked with Amy Adams

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Speaker 3: on Doubt the year before, so they're like engaging in

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Speaker 3: a pretty severe vibe shift in this movie, and then

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Speaker 3: she had also worked with I mean more famously, I

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Speaker 3: guess worked with Stanley Tucci. And Devilwaar's Prada a few

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Speaker 3: years before this. Right, anyways, that's six degrees of Beryl.

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Speaker 3: I do think it's weird that, Yeah, doubt and then

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Speaker 3: this movie coming out less than a year apart is bold.

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Speaker 1: Yeah truly. Yeah, but in a case, let's take a

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Speaker 1: quick break and then we'll come back for the recap.

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Speaker 3: And we're back.

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Speaker 1: Okay. So here is Julie and Julia, based on two books,

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Speaker 1: based on two true stories. It's the late nineteen forties.

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Speaker 1: When the movie opens, we meet Julia Child played by

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Speaker 1: Meryl Streep and her husband Paul Wait.

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Speaker 3: I kept meaning to look up how tall Meryl Streep

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Speaker 3: actually is. I was just gonna ask because I thought

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Speaker 3: that there are so many, like funny, practical camera tricks

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Speaker 3: to make her Yeah, she's five six, Julia Child is

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Speaker 3: six to two. I appreciate that the movie is like,

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Speaker 3: she was six too, and we'll prove it. Jane Lynch

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Speaker 3: is her sister. But I feel like the whole movie,

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Speaker 3: Meryl Streep is standing on an apple box in a

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Speaker 3: lot of shots, and she's often standing a little closer

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Speaker 3: to the camera than everyone else, so she looks bigger

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Speaker 3: and I was like, wow, movies are amazing.

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Speaker 1: It's just like Lord of the Rings.

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Speaker 3: It's true.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Gandalf is so tall in The Hobbit, and so

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Speaker 1: in this scenario, Stanley Tucci is a Hobbit Merylyn Streep

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Speaker 1: is gandalfrual, brutal.

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Speaker 3: This is a good short King movie as and also

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Speaker 3: it's I was looking at the letterbox reviews for this

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Speaker 3: movie and one of the top ones was like, this

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Speaker 3: movie takes place in a fictional world where husbands are supportive,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, yeah.

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Speaker 1: I cannot wait to talk about the husband one. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: so we meet Julia Child and her husband Paul, played

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Speaker 1: by Stanley Tucci. They have just moved to Paris. They

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Speaker 1: are Americans, but Paul is a diplomat, so you know

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Speaker 1: he's abroad working.

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Speaker 3: He's in the CIA, which I feel like, where is

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Speaker 3: really He's in the literal CIA, and they didn't call

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Speaker 3: it the CIA yet, So I feel like the movie

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Speaker 3: really gets away with not being like Julia Child's career

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Speaker 3: is brought to you by the CIA, much like here

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Speaker 3: comes my Bummer thing I love to bring up. Ina

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Speaker 3: Garten's career is brought to you by the Blackstone Group

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Speaker 3: aka some of the darkest, most fucked up Wall Street

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Speaker 3: money in the world. In a Garden's adorable husband Jeffrey, Right,

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Speaker 3: Jeffrey he worked for Nixon, Ford and Carter and then

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Speaker 3: went to Wall Street working for Lehman Brothers and the

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Speaker 3: Blackstone Group. That can't be good, Like, there's just so

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Speaker 3: there's just like two extremely iconic women chefs who got

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Speaker 3: some kickback from some of the worst institutions in the world.

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Speaker 3: But the Julia Child's CIA pipeline, I don't know. We'll

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Speaker 3: talk about this in the context area too, because this

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Speaker 3: movie is not going to touch the CIA stuff. They're like, well,

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Speaker 3: they're a good part of the CIA, right, so already

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Speaker 3: we're struggling.

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Speaker 1: I was unclear what his job was because in an

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Speaker 1: early scene he seems to be at like an art

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Speaker 1: exhibit for art that he made question mark. I was like, okay,

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Speaker 1: he's an artist, but wait a minute, he works at

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Speaker 1: the embassy. But also he's a spy question I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't.

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Speaker 4: Season two of Julia on HBO.

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Speaker 1: Is oh very.

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Speaker 4: Much about their past, catching up to them.

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Speaker 3: Look at you. Watching season two.

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Speaker 4: I had like a fever for like four days, and

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Speaker 4: I was like, well, my school what you do?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that is how you end up watching something like that.

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Speaker 3: Wait did they get into it in a meaningful way?

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Speaker 4: I still walk away from it uncertain of both what

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Speaker 4: they did during World War two and what their politics

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Speaker 4: were after World War Two. But basically the last half

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Speaker 4: of the season is about the TV station where like

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Speaker 4: the Julia Child Show is made getting investigated by the

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Speaker 4: FBI for leftist dissidents, and they rally everyone together to

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Speaker 4: thwart the FEDS so that they can all keep on

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Speaker 4: doing their progressive work.

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Speaker 3: God it yay.

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Speaker 4: But it's very much like we believe in anti war movements.

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Speaker 4: We believe in fighting against institutionalized racism, but we do

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Speaker 4: not believe in communism. Don't think that we do. It's

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Speaker 4: very funny, not like funny, haha, but like, oh I

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Speaker 4: don't understand what's happening.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So like, tell me what do you believe in?

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Speaker 3: Rent it bag?

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Speaker 4: I really don't know. I think personally, I like to

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Speaker 4: imagine Paul Child was a bisexual communist.

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Speaker 3: Yes, God, I would love that. I want to believe.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's like this movie. He certainly succeeds in

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Speaker 3: making you want to believe the best in him because

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Speaker 3: you don't cast Stanley Tucci if you want to be

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Speaker 3: rooting against him unless you're watching The Lovely Bones, and

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Speaker 3: in that case, very much so. But yeah, I know

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Speaker 3: the history stuff. It's so the Cia origin story. We

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Speaker 3: can get more into it. She like had to do

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Speaker 3: with the invention of shark repellent. It's all very bizarre.

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Speaker 3: We'll get back to it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. Still on the first sentence of the week,

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Speaker 1: Julia Child and her husband have just moved to Paris

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Speaker 1: Frans ever heard of it? And they are eating delicious

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Speaker 1: French food and Julia is just like reveling in it.

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Speaker 3: She's making noises. She's like, oh, so many cummy noises.

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Speaker 3: It's in this movie. Across the twentieth century, people are

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Speaker 3: making coummy noises.

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Speaker 1: That's true. That's because eating is like basically better than sex.

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Speaker 1: I would say in almost every example. Damn, yeah, take that.

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Speaker 1: All of the men that I've had sex with, take

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Speaker 1: that sex.

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Speaker 3: You weren't very good the tight race for me, I

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Speaker 3: don't choose between my passion.

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Speaker 1: Mmmm. That's brave of you. Anyway. We cut to two

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Speaker 1: thousand and two and we meet Julie Powell played by

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Speaker 1: Amy Adams and her husband Eric, played by Chrismasina. They

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Speaker 1: have just moved to Queen's. She works at this government

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Speaker 1: call center answering like devastating phone calls all day from

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Speaker 1: people affected by nine to eleven.

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Speaker 3: Her job is nine to eleven. Yes, well, Summer, you've

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Speaker 3: read the book. I don't quite understand the movie. I

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Speaker 3: don't think does a great job of telling you what

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Speaker 3: her job actually is.

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Speaker 4: From what I remember, it's like she's processing insurance claims

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Speaker 4: of people affected in the various aftermath of nine to eleven.

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Speaker 4: But what's fun about her book is she doesn't about

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Speaker 4: nine to eleven. She's writing very soon after the events

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Speaker 4: and with an apathy that I have only seen in

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Speaker 4: like shit posters in the twenty eighteens.

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Speaker 3: That is a great way to Yeah, there is like

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Speaker 3: a moment in the movie where it's like, oh no,

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Speaker 3: she cares, Yeah, But most of it is like these

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Speaker 3: phone calls are so annoying, and the people that are

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Speaker 3: trying to get their insurance claims processed are bombing her

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Speaker 3: out and they're rude, and you're just like, yeah, now, Julie, like.

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Speaker 4: And it is a department made specifically after nine to

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Speaker 4: eleven to deal with nine to eleven, which I think

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Speaker 4: is interesting in just like how do you get into that?

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Speaker 4: And it was as temping, which you know, temping is

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Speaker 4: a great way to get a full time job, but

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Speaker 4: you often don't care about it totally to it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and her job is established to basically be like

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Speaker 1: what a hard job she has? So she comes home

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Speaker 1: and finds comfort in cooking. Ye, because that becomes her

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Speaker 1: whole thing. And then after a string of events where

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Speaker 1: Julie's mean friend writes a rude article about her and

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Speaker 1: then starts a blog. This sort of also happens in

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Speaker 1: Sex and the City too. Yes, do you remember this

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Speaker 1: from Sex and This happens to Carrie Bradshaw at one

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Speaker 1: point where they're like you're so cool and yet you're

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Speaker 1: thirty And then there comes out like this woman sucks,

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Speaker 1: like on.

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Speaker 3: The cover of a magazine.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So Julie is inspired to start her own blog

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Speaker 1: about cooking because she's like, well, if my mean friend

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Speaker 1: can have a blog, I can have a blog.

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Speaker 3: She doesn't have a nice friend, It's like not really

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Speaker 3: and also she's not a nice friend. No, it's interesting,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, Nora, what are you getting at

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Speaker 3: with this. I don't understand, not sure, but yeah, that

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Speaker 3: first thing with her friends, all of her friends are like, Julie,

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Speaker 3: shut up, Like anytime she opens her mouth, they're like,

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Speaker 3: can you stop talking? They're just like calling her a loser.

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Speaker 3: And then you're like, I feel for Julie, And then

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Speaker 3: later on I'm like that she is the worst. Wait

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Speaker 3: a second, would I bully her? I don't know, movie Julie.

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Speaker 1: In any case, she decides to start a blog about cooking,

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Speaker 1: and specifically, she will blog about cooking her way through

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Speaker 1: Julia Child's cookbook entitled Mastering the Art of French Cooking,

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Speaker 1: and she'll do all five hundred and twenty four recipes

437
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 1: in the book over the course of one year. We

438
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 1: then cut back to Julia Child in Paris again. Paul

439
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 1: is a diplomat and he's busy with that, and so

440
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 1: Julia wants to find something to do with her time.

441
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 1: She tries a few things like making hats and playing bridge,

442
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 1: but what she really loves to do is eat, so

443
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,680
Speaker 1: she decides to take up cooking. She tries to buy

444
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 1: a French cookbook in English, but no such thing really exists,

445
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 1: so she decides to go to culinary school. We cut

446
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: back to Julie Powell. She has started her blog and

447
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:17,199
Speaker 1: she started cooking the recipes from Julia's cookbook. It's a

448
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: rocky start. It seems like no one is reading her blog.

449
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 1: Her mom is not supportive of this project.

450
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 3: Who can relate? Who can relate? You're writing for no

451
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 3: one and your mom doesn't understand what your job is.

452
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: Also, one of the recipes requires that she bone a duck,

453
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,199
Speaker 1: and she's dreading doing that, and that's going to pay

454
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: off later in a not very significant way.

455
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 3: Check out's duck.

456
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 1: Yep. Meanwhile, Julia starts at Li Corombleau and she ends

457
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: up in a class with men who judge her because

458
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: her skills are are not as advanced, so she works

459
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: extra hard to prove herself. She's chopping onions about it,

460
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 1: and then soon she outperforms everyone else in the class.

461
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: Back in Queen's Julie's readership is growing. People are leaving

462
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:17,439
Speaker 1: comments on her blog.

463
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 3: We mostly hear about people that as her blog is

464
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 3: growing through something that I remember noticing the last time

465
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,719
Speaker 3: I watched this movie. The only non white character in

466
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 3: the movie whose face we see once we see her

467
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 3: face once it's aggressive. She has a friend. I guess,

468
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 3: do we ever learn what her name? Should?

469
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 4: We do?

470
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 1: We learn her name? But she's on screen for a

471
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 1: total of maybe five seconds, and that might even be generous.

472
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 4: Part of it is doing a cute little like hand class.

473
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 3: They're good enough friends to have a secret handshake. She

474
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 3: also works at nine to eleven. That's all we know.

475
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:02,120
Speaker 1: Her name is Ernestine. Yes, and I'm going to try

476
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 1: to figure out. Oh, she's played by Crystal McCreery. Again,

477
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 1: she's on screen for five seconds, but yes, that is

478
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: one of Julie's friends, and she's talking about this project

479
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 1: with Ernestine at work. She's also talking about how by

480
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: doing this project, Julie feels like she and Julia Child

481
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 1: have this like deep spiritual connection and that it feels

482
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 1: like Julia is always in the kitchen with her watching

483
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 1: over her. But also along the way, Julie has several

484
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 1: meltdowns because, oh, she's got a murderal lobster. Oh, some

485
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: of the recipes are hard. Oh, she drops food all

486
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: over the floor. But then she gets a call from

487
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,199
Speaker 1: a journalist at the Christian Science Monitor who wants to

488
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 1: arrange a dinner with her and a very special guest,

489
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 1: but we don't know who it is yet because then

490
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: we cut back to Paris. Julia Child meets two women,

491
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:06,120
Speaker 1: Louisette and Simca, who are teaching French cooking to Americans,

492
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:10,199
Speaker 1: and they invite Julia to join them. Then there's this

493
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: whole sequence where Julia's sister, Dorothy played by Jane Lynch,

494
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 1: comes for a visit.

495
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 3: N The economy of Jane Lynch's time is so amazing.

496
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 3: She's in there for like a weirdly really long scene

497
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 3: that just seems to be there so that she and

498
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 3: Meryl can be like yelling together and it's really fun.

499
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 3: And then they're like, we're going to introduce you to

500
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 3: a tall guy, and then instead she meets a short guy.

501
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,479
Speaker 3: Cut too. They're married, and then she's gone from the

502
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 3: movie right wild.

503
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: But before she's gone, well I get after she's gone,

504
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: she sends a letter to Julia saying that she's gregnant,

505
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 1: that Dorothy has gotten gregnant, and this is basically there

506
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: to establish something that's not like explicitly stated, but it

507
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: seems like Julia has she's like struggling with infertility, and yeah,

508
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: she really wants to have children, but she and Paul

509
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: are not able to and so like. Learning that her

510
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: sister is gregnant is better sweet. Obviously she's happy for

511
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: her sister, but she's like, but I want to be

512
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: gregnant too, And she's sad.

513
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 3: But I think is true to her life as well.

514
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe so. Meanwhile, Julia's friends Luisette and Simca

515
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: ask Julia to collaborate with them on their cookbook. Their

516
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 1: publisher had rejected them, saying that they need to make

517
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: the book more accessible to Americans, so they ask for

518
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: Julia's help in doing that, and she is delighted to help.

519
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: We cut back to Julie, who reveals her mystery dinner guest.

520
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: It's Judith Jones, the editor who was responsible for getting

521
00:29:50,200 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: Julia Child's cookbook published, and Julie is making.

522
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 3: I love try to say.

523
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, how do you say this?

524
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 3: Bof Aby Adams doesn't sound one hundred percent?

525
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 4: No, I love the like legend of that dish recurring

526
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 4: throughout the movie. I've never eaten that in my life.

527
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 4: I've only heard of it in the context of this movie.

528
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 4: Speaks to my ignorance towards French cuisine. I do not care.

529
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 4: It's beautiful it's a mystical dish.

530
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 5: I just love the word bof Boo's how it's like

531
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 5: trying to say ewan regret.

532
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: Boof is it? I'm good for yes, absolute you. So

533
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: Julie is making this dish and she prepares it the

534
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: night before the dinner, but she falls asleep while it's

535
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: still in the oven and it gets all burnt and ruined,

536
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 1: and she's freaking out. We cut back to Julia. She's

537
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: working on the cookbook right now. It's just a bunch

538
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: of recipes. There's like no fun or flair, and so

539
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: she's trying to liven it up. I guess. Julia sends

540
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: some of the pages of the book to her pen pal, Avis,

541
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: who then we learn is a literary scout or something.

542
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: She works in publishing, and she shows them to an

543
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: editor at the publishing house Hutton Mifflin in Boston, who

544
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 1: loves the book and wants to publish it. Julie meanwhile

545
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: makes a new for her dinner with Judith that night,

546
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: and Julie is hopeful that maybe she'll get a book

547
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: deal after a meeting with Judith, but then Judith cancels

548
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: at the last minute and they never reschedule. I guess

549
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: I know.

550
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 3: I was like damn, wow, Like yeah, she really ends

551
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 3: up getting her ass handed to her.

552
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: Julie is very upset and her husband Eric is frustrated

553
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 1: by this whole project and all of her like mishaps

554
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: and meltdowns and he can't wait till this year's over.

555
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: He feels like she's being very self absorbed and that

556
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: she's focusing more on her readers than their marriage. And

557
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: they argue and he storms off, and she's very upset.

558
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: She keeps blogging, but she stops cooking for a little while.

559
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 3: What I think is interesting and this like is kind

560
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 3: of dropped within the movie, but like he makes a

561
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 3: point I think reasonably to say, like, well, please don't

562
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 3: write about this argument or me in your blog. And

563
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 3: then she almost does, and then she doesn't, and you're like, okay,

564
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 3: she's like learning how to set boundaries a little better.

565
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 3: But then she just does any eyes and then he's like,

566
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 3: all right, I'm back. I was like, she didn't you

567
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 3: made one request, like and I don't know. I was

568
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 3: kind of on his side on that. I was like, yeah,

569
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 3: if someone doesn't, I feel like it's the same deal.

570
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 3: Like if you're in like stand up. I'll always like

571
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 3: be like, is it okay if I talk about un stage?

572
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 3: If not, I won't do it. He's like, don't blog

573
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 3: about me. She's like, okay, but what about in one

574
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 3: day and he's like, okay.

575
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: It's fine, okay, So back to Julia. She and Simca

576
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: go to Boston to meet with Julie's penpal Avis in

577
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: real life for the first time. They also meet with

578
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: the publishers at Hutton Mifflin, but they think the book

579
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: is too long and complicated, so Julia and Simca get

580
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 1: to work on revising it. Meanwhile, Julie and Eric make

581
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: up and she starts cooking again, and then a writer

582
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: from The New York Times comes over for dinner to

583
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: do a piece on her. And once it's published, people

584
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: are calling her left and right. She's got publishers, lit agents,

585
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: TV producers. They're offering her deals and then one person

586
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: calls her who is writing a piece about Julia Chi

587
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: Child's ninetieth birthday, and apparently Julia knows about Julie's blog

588
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 1: and thinks that Julie is not serious or respectful.

589
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 4: So crushing, I know.

590
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 1: So she's like speculating as to why Julia thinks that

591
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: she's so sad.

592
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 3: Her real life comments were not as bad.

593
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: What did she say?

594
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 3: So, the piece that I am pulling from is from

595
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,280
Speaker 3: tastingtable dot com. I don't know if this is a

596
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 3: historically verifiable source, and so I can't vouch for tasting

597
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 3: table dot com. But it seemed like the comments sounded

598
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 3: very cruel, and they like certainly weren't nice. But it

599
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 3: had more to do with Julia Child didn't understand what

600
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 3: a blog was.

601
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's a ninety and was.

602
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 3: Like, why would she cook all of my recipes?

603
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 4: Like?

604
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 3: So she said she must not be much of a cook,

605
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 3: meaning like she must not be able to write her

606
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 3: own recipes. Why would like she didn't understand the concept

607
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 3: of a stunt blog because she was ninety. So, but

608
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 3: I believe obviously that like if you just heard that

609
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 3: quote out of context in your Julie crushing, miserable, horrible,

610
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 3: never meet your heroes. I hope your heroes never learn

611
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 3: you exist. Yeah, I don't know. I guess I think

612
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 3: it had more to do with her being old and

613
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 3: grouchy and being like, what what is this?

614
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, this sceneedd instill like a deep fear in me,

615
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 4: just like, oh, like, I never want anyone that I

616
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 4: ever admire to ever know about me or see what

617
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 4: I do or comment on my work ever, because I

618
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 4: won't be able to handle it.

619
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 3: And I think it's like interesting too, at least for

620
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 3: the script. I don't know where the book lands on it,

621
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 3: but like where the movie lands on it, where Christmasina

622
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 3: is like all that matters is that Julia Child that

623
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 3: lives in your head. And I was like, hmm, I

624
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 3: don't know that I agree with that at all. It

625
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 3: feels kind of like a bizarre moral. I don't know. Yeah,

626
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 3: I was having difficulty with where because it's like it

627
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 3: is crushing and I think it's a really interesting thing

628
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 3: to explore, but that She's just like, well, I guess

629
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 3: I just am gonna go with the fictional character Julia instead, right,

630
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 3: But that's the parasocial relationship conversation we get to have,

631
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 3: I guess.

632
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: And then Julia Child I think, dies before Julie Powell

633
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: ever gets a chance to meet her in real life.

634
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 1: And then I'm just like, oh, I did feel bad

635
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: for that is sad Julia in that moment, But yeah,

636
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: what I wrote in the recap here is Julie's very

637
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: sad about Julia Child, thinking that she's not like respectful

638
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:42,919
Speaker 1: or serious. But then Julie realizes that what Julia thinks

639
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: of her doesn't matter. What matters is what Julie thinks

640
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: of herself question mark or something sort.

641
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:55,320
Speaker 3: Of really unclear. I don't know. I was like, Okay,

642
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,879
Speaker 3: if I had like made all of act cast right

643
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 3: and then found out that Kathy guys White was like,

644
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 3: You're not a serious person, it would be crushing. But

645
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 3: I feel like it would just be really weird to

646
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 3: be like, I actually don't care what she thinks because

647
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 3: it's like so obvious that I really do or why

648
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 3: would I have done any of this? But then it's

649
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 3: I don't know. I feel like maybe it's just like

650
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 3: the Christmas in a line of dialogue sort of being like,

651
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 3: and this is the lesson because Julie, it seems like

652
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 3: Julie at the end, she goes to the exhibit and

653
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 3: is like, I love you, Julia, but like which Julia

654
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,359
Speaker 3: the one in her head or the real one?

655
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 1: The real one? Will never know, We'll never know. In

656
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: any case, we cut back to Julie Child, Houghton, Meflin

657
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 1: rejects the book, and so Julia is unsure what to

658
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: do next. She feels like she's wasted eight years of

659
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: her life writing this book. But then, thanks to her

660
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 1: pen pal Avis, the book comes across the desk of

661
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: a publisher named Judith Jones, the one who was supposed

662
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,839
Speaker 1: to meet with Julie and then it was raining, so

663
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 1: she canceled, and then they never rescheduled. A question mark

664
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:10,959
Speaker 1: not sure, but anyway.

665
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm on Ja's side there too.

666
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 4: I love to cancel plan.

667
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 3: I know surely she's like, yeah, it's a little far, sorry.

668
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: But yes. We meet Judith Jones when she's a young

669
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 1: publisher and she loves the cookbook and she wants to

670
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: publish it and she thinks it's going to revolutionize cooking

671
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: in the US, and Julia is ecstatic. Back to Julie,

672
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 1: it's her last day of this year long project and

673
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 1: the last of her five hundred and twenty four recipes

674
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: where she has to bone the duck, and it is

675
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 1: presented by the movie as though it's gonna be this

676
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 1: big event because they keep referring to it, and it

677
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 1: feels like it's really building up to something. But then

678
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: she's like I did it and there's no special moment

679
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: or anything anyway.

680
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, the cookie scene I remember is the lobster scene

681
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 3: from this movie. Yeah, the lobster scenems fun.

682
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 4: That seems much scarier to me. Yeah, especially, I mean,

683
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 4: hygiene doesn't really matter in a movie, right, but like

684
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 4: she's like touching the phone with her raw chicken hands.

685
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 4: She's like, yeah, on the yenging on the ground with

686
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 4: raw chicken residue, and she's like very brave, unafraid of that. Yeah,

687
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 4: and so like the grossest thing to me about deeboning

688
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,320
Speaker 4: the duck is like touching raw meat. Yeah, but she

689
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 4: seems fine with that, So I don't know. The live

690
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 4: lobster thing, I was like, oh, I simply would never

691
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 4: do that, but yeah, the raw meat is gross.

692
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 3: The rob meat is pretty nasty. Yeah, the lobster. I

693
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 3: think the lobster scene sticks with me mainly because I

694
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 3: would be petrified to do that, and because I like

695
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 3: the music choice, like putting Psycho, Like it's.

696
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:57,439
Speaker 4: So silly, it's really fun.

697
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 3: Yes, there's talking heads in the Meryl Street Julia Child movie.

698
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:03,320
Speaker 3: That's fun.

699
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: Anyway, So she bones the duck and it is fine.

700
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: There's no problems and she celebrates with her friends, and

701
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: then Julia and Eric go to the Julia Child Museum

702
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

703
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:20,320
Speaker 3: Ever heard of that?

704
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: And then text on the screen at the end of

705
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: the movie says that mastering the Art of French Cooking

706
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 1: is in its forty ninth printing. Julie Pal's book Julie

707
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: and Julia was published in two thousand and five and

708
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 1: then made into a movie, and we were like, I'm sorry,

709
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: you mean the movie that we are watching right now?

710
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 4: What?

711
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is sad because it's like the last frame

712
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 3: that Nora Efron ever produced. But my boyfriend was like, oh,

713
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 3: fuck you. Like when they show at the end where

714
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 3: they're like and it's a movie, You're like, I know,

715
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:55,919
Speaker 3: I know where I've been the last two hours.

716
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 1: Yes, So that's the movie. Let's take another quick break

717
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:12,240
Speaker 1: and we'll come back to discuss and we're back.

718
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,320
Speaker 3: Is it cool if we talk about the real life

719
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 3: women before we get into sultanly, because this is the

720
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 3: first time I've seen this movie since Julie Powell passed. Yeah,

721
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 3: she passed away very young, She's forty nine. It was

722
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 3: a brief sudden illness and so I want to be

723
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 3: clear when I'm talking about the Julie of this movie,

724
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 3: I'm not talking about Julie Powell by all accounts. She's

725
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 3: a lovely person, and God help you if you are

726
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,360
Speaker 3: judged by blog posts from the early two thousands for

727
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 3: the rest of your life, truly. Yeah, So I just

728
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 3: wanted to share a little bit about her. There were

729
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 3: a number of lovely essays eulogizing her when she passed

730
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty two. That also touches on something that

731
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 3: I memory hold but vaguely remember about the time that

732
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,760
Speaker 3: this movie came out, which was that Julia and Julia

733
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 3: came out in two thousand and five. It was a

734
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 3: very successful book. It was turned into this movie in

735
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 3: nine and Julie Powell released her only other book shortly thereafter,

736
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 3: and she was torn to shreds over it because it

737
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 3: dealt with the marriage that we see presented very lovingly,

738
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 3: and they remained married until her death. So I don't

739
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 3: know about it, but there was a lot of infidelity

740
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 3: between the two of them, and Julie Powell wrote about it.

741
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 3: I haven't read the book, but I guess pretty honestly.

742
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 3: In this book that came out three months after the movie.

743
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 3: So I think the idea was the movie is going

744
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 3: to really endear everyone to Julie Powell, and then we'll

745
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 3: want to read her new book. But I think it

746
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 3: sort of ended up in a way that feels very

747
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 3: connected to late Aught's misogyny, kind of blowing up in

748
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:57,359
Speaker 3: her face in an unfair way where she's writing very

749
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,399
Speaker 3: I mean, I hope with her husband's permission and they

750
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 3: remained married. Let's hope, so but you know, being too

751
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 3: imperfect or writing about something that was so at odds

752
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 3: with the movie character that had done so well over

753
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 3: the summer. And I vaguely remember that, and it seems

754
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 3: like in retrospect it was like very unfair to her.

755
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:22,399
Speaker 3: They wanted to just share something from an essay by

756
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,360
Speaker 3: I write her named Emily Ferris in Bonapetite that was

757
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 3: released in late twenty twenty two, shortly after she passed away.

758
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 3: That seems really kind, because I guess Julie Powell became

759
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 3: very well known for mentoring young writers, which not enough

760
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 3: people do. She said, when I was broken in between apartments,

761
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 3: she paid me to house it when I probably should

762
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 3: have been paying her to sublet. When I cracked the

763
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 3: screen on my laptop. A few weeks before my book

764
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 3: was due, she took me to the Max Doore in

765
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:49,919
Speaker 3: front of me the money for a new one until

766
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 3: I got my next advance check from my publisher. And

767
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 3: when I found myself without a place to stay while

768
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,760
Speaker 3: covering a food blogging panel, she sent me to her parents' house.

769
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 3: Even when her life got messy, both peron similar professionally,

770
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 3: she continued to give to me, to her other friends

771
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 3: and families, to animal rescue organizations, and to a public

772
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 3: that seemed to turn on her when she showed them

773
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 3: more of who she really was. So yeah, I just

774
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 3: wanted to shout out Julie Powell and yeah, gone far

775
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 3: too soon.

776
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 4: That's so sweet. Oh my god.

777
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 3: I know I was like anytime I read about like

778
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,800
Speaker 3: mentorship in general, but especially like mentors between like women

779
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 3: and famis, I'm like, ugh, she seemed like a really

780
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 3: lovely person. And I'm kind of curious about her second

781
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 3: book me too.

782
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 4: I never read it. I read her first one, and

783
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 4: you know, she writes about her husband so wonderfully. I

784
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 4: think that's like, honestly bummer. But my favorite part of

785
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 4: the book, it's the way she writes about her husband,

786
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 4: and I think it'd be I don't know, I kind

787
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 4: of do want to read the second one, and just

788
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 4: I don't know if you're going to read blogs and

789
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 4: personal essay writing and then be cruel to people when

790
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 4: they're honest. It's like, well, read a different genre.

791
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 3: Right right. It's like they only like the version of

792
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 3: her that is rom com her and actual her is

793
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 3: not acceptable. Yeah. The book is called Cleaving, a Story

794
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 3: of Marriage, Meet and Obsession, which, according to scholarly journal Wikipedia,

795
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 3: details her experiences learning to butcher at Fleischer's butcher Shop

796
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 3: in New York and the effects of affairs by both

797
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 3: her and her husband on their marriage. And yeah, it

798
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 3: seems like most of the negative reviews were just like

799
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 3: how dare you talk about this? So fuck that? And

800
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 3: then we have Julia Child, who was in the CIA,

801
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 3: Like just she's in the CIA, unclear. I also like,

802
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 3: don't trust anything that is published on the CIA website.

803
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 3: Julia Child has her own like clickbait page on c

804
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 3: i A dot gov. You're like, this is some skill,

805
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 3: good Jesus. So if there's ever been a time to

806
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:11,839
Speaker 3: consider the source, it's here. But yeah, the Julia Child

807
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 3: CIA landing page says that she was with the so

808
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 3: it was called the OSS at the time. That turns

809
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 3: into the CIA, the Office of Strategic Services. It is

810
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,439
Speaker 3: said that she joined the CIA because she was too

811
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 3: tall to be in the military. What a sentence. Okay,

812
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 3: so this is very CIA website. Working as a research

813
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 3: assistant in the Secret Intelligence Division, Julia typed up thousands

814
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 3: of names on little white note cards. What what are

815
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 3: the names? What happened to the why? That's all it

816
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 3: says about what she was up to, and then it

817
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 3: gets to the fun part, which is the shark repellent.

818
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 3: Julia then worked with the OSS Emergency c Rest You

819
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 3: Equipment section, where she worked in close proximity to offers

820
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 3: who developed shark repellent, and that she met her husband

821
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 3: in the CIA, and then he got promoted in the

822
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 3: CIA and they got to move to France for the CIA. Okay,

823
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:22,439
Speaker 3: So it feels like this very bizarre two hander where

824
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 3: on one hand, she is a woman in the early

825
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 3: twentieth century who clearly very much wants a career in

826
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 3: a way that was not acceptable at the time, and

827
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,919
Speaker 3: then the career is in the CIA, and so it's

828
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 3: like a real girl boss pickle that we're getting ourselves

829
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 3: into with all this. And she's also comes from a

830
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 3: lot of money and is basically rich her entire life,

831
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 3: which I think is the way that class is dealt

832
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 3: with in this movie. I think is really interesting. That's

833
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 3: my context corner. Nora Afron not much to know other

834
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 3: than she like, I love food, and so that's why

835
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 3: she wanted to make this movie. She loved food.

836
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 1: To speak to the movie, because a lot of that stuff,

837
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:13,279
Speaker 1: especially with Julia Child, is like pretty glossed over as

838
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 1: far as her like former work in the CIA, and

839
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 1: what Paul's job is. Again, I thought he was like

840
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,800
Speaker 1: an artist or an architect or something, because they're like

841
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 1: he designed the rooms that won World War Two, and

842
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 1: I'm like, what is his job anyway, So as far

843
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: as what the movie presents, I do appreciate that this

844
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 1: is a movie largely about women finding purpose and pursuing

845
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 1: something that they love and sticking with it despite obstacles

846
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 1: along the way. And maybe those obstacles are lobsters, maybe

847
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: they are McCarthyism, you know, who's to say. But I

848
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 1: also appreciate that it's very rare that there is a

849
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 1: movie where we can talk about a female character and

850
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:05,280
Speaker 1: her husband, because it's almost always talking about a female

851
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 1: character because she's his wife. So I like the kind

852
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 1: of framing of everything here, and I do want to

853
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: talk about the husbands and their level of support, but yeah,

854
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: I just I like that this is a movie where

855
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: it's like, Wow, women should pursue their dreams.

856
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 3: Or even just to like speak to the in even

857
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,839
Speaker 3: lower Bar a movie where like women are eating as

858
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 3: much as they want the whole time, and it's like

859
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 3: two women who love to eat and they're not like

860
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 3: caught in like Gilmore Girl syndrome where they still look

861
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 3: like they go to forty pilates classes a week even

862
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 3: though all they do is eat, like you know, and

863
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 3: it's still very movie fied. But that yeah, like there's

864
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 3: so few stories about like women and food that is

865
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 3: like celebratory, so right.

866
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 4: And I think there's minimal there. Definitely is like just

867
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:06,879
Speaker 4: mentions of like, oh, I'm gaining a lot of weight

868
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 4: because I'm eating fattening food, you know, But there's way

869
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 4: less like kind of yeah, body shamey or like language

870
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 4: that would lead you to have an eating disorder in

871
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 4: this movie that I think you would expect right, which

872
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 4: is fun. It's another reason why I like it so much.

873
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 4: It is so much about the indulgence and enjoying food

874
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 4: and allowing yourself to enjoy it, you know, like Julie

875
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 4: doesn't stop cooking because she feels tired from eating a

876
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 4: lot of butter. You know, Yeah that happens. And yeah,

877
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 4: it feels very counter to other films of this type

878
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 4: and time. You don't really walk away from it being like,

879
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 4: oh god, you want it, you want to eat the

880
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 4: chocolate cake.

881
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't leave the movie being like they should

882
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 3: have eaten less.

883
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, more, they should have eaten more. Yeah.

884
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:55,320
Speaker 3: There are definitely like dated and it is a period

885
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 3: piece even at the time is coming out. Yeah, like

886
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 3: dated ways of talking. But it was mostly negative self talk.

887
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 3: I can't think of a lot of examples. I don't

888
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 3: know if any of like someone commenting Onlie and Julia's body.

889
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 3: It was more of mostly Julie being hard on herself.

890
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 3: But I mean again, Barra on the floor. But I think,

891
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 3: you know, like a lesser movie would have had like

892
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 3: the husband's commenting on their bodies. True, and the fact

893
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 3: that it was mostly relegated to some good old fashioned

894
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 3: negative self talk felt at least like a less bad version.

895
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 3: And I also don't know from Julie's book if that

896
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 3: is like something that is from the book. I just

897
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 3: don't know a little bit.

898
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:45,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's funny, you know, like she has the Quippi

899
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 4: Bloggie early two thousand's voice. And I think that kind

900
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 4: of self degradation that is mostly a joke is just

901
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 4: like kind of part of the flare, you know. But

902
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 4: I think in the context of the movie, it adds

903
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 4: like a realistic character dimension. It makes Julie feel like, yeah,

904
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 4: she's she's messy, it's.

905
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:13,239
Speaker 3: Fun, she's just like me. She hates herself. Yeah right, yeah,

906
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 3: I mean just the idea of a movie about women

907
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 3: and food. And I mean I get like the parallels

908
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 3: between the two of them are significant. I think that

909
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 3: an interesting big chasm between them that the movie doesn't

910
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 3: really look at. And also it's like, I don't know,

911
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 3: I don't go to Nora Ephron for thoughtful commentary on class,

912
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 3: but this movie, Yeah, it's interesting because of the stories

913
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 3: they're based on. Class has to be present, and we're

914
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:48,919
Speaker 3: still firmly in the middle to upper middle class when

915
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 3: it comes to Julie. But there is a not insignificant

916
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 3: class difference between Julie and Julia, and I feel like

917
00:52:56,440 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 3: a lot of how like listening to Julie be like,

918
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 3: why can't I be more like Julia? And I kept

919
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:07,239
Speaker 3: being like, money, Yeah, money kind of your personality, but

920
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:11,439
Speaker 3: it's a lot of it is money, Like where Julia Child,

921
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:15,720
Speaker 3: for all of her valid struggles, never had to worry

922
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,879
Speaker 3: about money, and that tends to make you a more

923
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 3: pleasant person if you never have to worry about jack

924
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 3: shit like and the ways that class colors Julie's story,

925
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:28,799
Speaker 3: it is kind of a Cinderella story where she has

926
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 3: to write her way out of her insurance claims job,

927
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 3: but even stuff with like she can't afford to live

928
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 3: in the area of town she wants to and that

929
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 3: has an effect on her career when she gets canceled

930
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 3: on because it's too far, which again I celebrate that cancelation,

931
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 3: but like, there's a little class stuff in there, and

932
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's not perfectly done. I just thought

933
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 3: it was, Like one of the more bizarre parts of

934
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 3: this movie to be is that doesn't seem to really

935
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:04,439
Speaker 3: register in the constant comparison between these women's life trajectories.

936
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 4: I think Julia Child is often used as like fake

937
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 4: deep inspiration of like, Julia didn't learn to cook until

938
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 4: she was in her forties, and it's like, well, because

939
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:18,800
Speaker 4: she lived a very privileged life in which she didn't

940
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 4: have to learn how to cook for herself and then

941
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 4: had an incredible abundance of time in which all she

942
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 4: had to do was what she wanted, right, And I

943
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 4: don't see that really being engaged with culturally until recently,

944
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 4: maybe even it's a member. I think a lot of

945
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 4: us are very distracted by the reality of what growing

946
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 4: up wealthy can do for a person and trying to

947
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:44,359
Speaker 4: like we don't all have the same hours in the day,

948
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 4: the like part, especially like coming home to cook six

949
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:56,759
Speaker 4: hour meal, Like that's so commendable. I would I when

950
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 4: I did have to go to an office when I

951
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:01,479
Speaker 4: came home, I would never do something that would takes

952
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:04,719
Speaker 4: that long. And just thinking, well, if you have a

953
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:08,120
Speaker 4: husband who's supporting me, you have theoretically family money, although

954
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 4: you know she doesn't have a great Julia didn't have

955
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 4: a great relationship with her father as we see, But

956
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,440
Speaker 4: of course you can do the thing that takes hours

957
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 4: and hours and hours right, it's not glamorous to think

958
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 4: about that, I guess.

959
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, But it's like with Julie, do you do

960
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 3: see that, Like it's taking more of a toll on

961
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:29,319
Speaker 3: her life than it took on Julia's because she has

962
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:32,440
Speaker 3: to have a normal job and commute and do all

963
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:35,839
Speaker 3: the things that most people need to do. Yeah, and

964
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 3: she's still privileged to be able to, you know, find

965
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 3: the energy to have the hobby. Like there is still

966
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 3: a degree of privilege in that. But yeah, they're operating

967
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,840
Speaker 3: in different levels of privilege, which feels kind of wild

968
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 3: to say because they are, you know, they're both white

969
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:51,880
Speaker 3: women that have you know, sort of the world bows

970
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 3: to them both eventually anyways, And again, like Nora Afron,

971
00:55:56,200 --> 00:56:00,120
Speaker 3: this is not really anymore than I'm not trying to

972
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 3: compare them outside of this, but Nora Efron also grew

973
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:07,920
Speaker 3: up very wealthy, you know, the odds she had had

974
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:10,239
Speaker 3: a lot to do with misogyny and not a lot

975
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 3: to do with class. And I feel the same way

976
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 3: about Emerald Finelle, where you're just like, here's a director

977
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:20,799
Speaker 3: that I'll always give their stuff a shot, but I'm

978
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:24,280
Speaker 3: not going to them for valuable insight on class. Because

979
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 3: they're just like not equipped to do it.

980
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 1: What you didn't think Saltburn had important comment to And

981
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 1: I'm kidding.

982
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:33,280
Speaker 3: Well, it's like she's like a jewelry heiress or something,

983
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 3: and you're just like, yeah, this is not the director

984
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:38,359
Speaker 3: I'm going to for this. But I like to look

985
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 3: at pretty thing.

986
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:43,840
Speaker 4: I do like the way the PayPal is a detail

987
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 4: of a plot point to show that Julius readers love her. Yes,

988
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 4: I love the early two thousands and of it. I

989
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 4: love the beginning of blogging and just hearing those things.

990
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:59,360
Speaker 4: It's so fun. I love when Christmasina explains blogging.

991
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:05,880
Speaker 3: It's really great, just like the herculean effort of beginning

992
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 3: a blog on Salon dot com. You're like, wow, what

993
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:11,759
Speaker 3: a moment of time. Or when she gets competitive with

994
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 3: her friend who's it just is like the way that

995
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:18,640
Speaker 3: female friends work in Julie's world is weird to be

996
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:20,960
Speaker 3: in Julia's world. I kind of love it, Like I

997
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 3: don't really have any notes there Julie's world. I'm like,

998
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 3: what is Nora try to say to us here or Julie.

999
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 3: I'm not sure where it's coming from. But the friend

1000
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 3: that humiliates her also has a blog about having sex

1001
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 3: in a plane question Mark and yeah, honestly not out

1002
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 3: of the I don't know. Early blogging was so wild.

1003
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:45,760
Speaker 3: People were just saying.

1004
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 1: Whatever, yeah, yeah, Well, to speak a little bit more

1005
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:54,280
Speaker 1: to Julie's friends, yes.

1006
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 3: What's going on?

1007
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 1: She has the mean girl boss friends who are very condescended.

1008
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 1: One of them is Casey Wilson. The other one writes

1009
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 1: this like rude piece about Julie becoming thirty or something.

1010
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 1: I don't even know what the topic is.

1011
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 3: If I were Julie, that would have affected me far worse.

1012
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 3: I was glad that for Julie. She was like, oh,

1013
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:21,200
Speaker 3: I need to start writing again. I was like, oof,

1014
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 3: My takeaway would have been far more negative.

1015
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 4: How could a friend write a hit piece on you

1016
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:28,320
Speaker 4: and then you just keep going?

1017
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 3: When it happened on Sex and the City, it wasn't

1018
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 3: her friend, No, it was a person.

1019
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:35,280
Speaker 1: It was a person.

1020
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:38,800
Speaker 4: I don't know. I really love viewing this like incredibly

1021
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:41,440
Speaker 4: inaccessible version of female friendship to me and like, I

1022
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:46,120
Speaker 4: simply do not. This doesn't register to me, just incredible

1023
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:47,880
Speaker 4: like coterie of girl bosses.

1024
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, I don't know what the intent

1025
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:53,680
Speaker 1: is there. But then she has another friend, Sarah played

1026
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:58,040
Speaker 1: by mary Lynn Rushcub, who seems not mean, She seems

1027
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 1: to be supportive. She comes over and helps Julie cook.

1028
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 1: Sometimes she doesn't have that much you know, screen time

1029
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 1: or narrative significance, but at least like Julie is given

1030
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 1: a friend who is kind to her and we like that,

1031
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:13,480
Speaker 1: especially in contrast to her mean friends. And then she

1032
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:18,200
Speaker 1: has these other friend that we mentioned Ernestine. It's Julie's

1033
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 1: one black friend. It's like the only person of color

1034
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:24,560
Speaker 1: on screen with any sort of speaking.

1035
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:29,360
Speaker 3: Role, truly. Shot for shot, you see like her eyes was,

1036
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 3: you see the back of her head several times, and

1037
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 3: then you see her whole face in the final shot

1038
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 3: she appears in like it could not be more careless.

1039
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, the movie doesn't care at all about her character.

1040
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 1: But then so there's a scene where I think it's

1041
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:52,560
Speaker 1: Julie Eric and her friend Sarah. Sarah comes over and

1042
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 1: Julie's like, what do you think it means if you

1043
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 1: don't like your friends, referring to her mean girl boss friends.

1044
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 3: Right, who she's right to not let like?

1045
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 4: Right?

1046
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:04,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, that seems so confusing.

1047
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 1: And Sarah responds with it's completely normal to not like

1048
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 1: your friends. And then Eric says, well, men like their friends,

1049
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 1: and then Sarah says, we're not talking about men. Who's

1050
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:18,360
Speaker 1: talking about men? Which I think passes the Bachdel test.

1051
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:21,480
Speaker 3: But anyway, it also I'm like, okay, Eric, where are

1052
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:24,280
Speaker 3: your friends at haven't seen them in the movie? Where

1053
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 3: are these friends you like so much? Doesn't seem like

1054
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:32,800
Speaker 3: they're really around, are they? Yeah? That felt very boomery

1055
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:34,760
Speaker 3: logic to me. I like couldn't quite get my head

1056
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 3: around it because it was like, if we're talking about

1057
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:42,919
Speaker 3: that friend, Yeah, she shouldn't be your friend anymore. They're

1058
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:47,400
Speaker 3: me like she betrayed you and like humiliated you in

1059
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 3: a national magazine. I don't think that has to do

1060
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:52,160
Speaker 3: with like friendships between women. It has to do with

1061
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 3: this woman being a bad person.

1062
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 1: Right, And to Julie's credit, it seems like they're not

1063
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 1: friends anymore, at least in the context of the movie.

1064
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:04,840
Speaker 1: They don't hang out after that, but who knows what

1065
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:06,080
Speaker 1: the real life situation was.

1066
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:08,240
Speaker 3: But it's like, do the other girl bosses cut her out?

1067
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 3: Like what?

1068
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 4: It was really interesting in all of the Dinners when

1069
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 4: she has people over, Yeah, those women do not return,

1070
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 4: And I wondered if it was like, would they not

1071
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:20,840
Speaker 4: eat the food. They wouldn't, they wouldn't let her.

1072
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:24,240
Speaker 3: Have a friend's Oh yeah, they were like stop eating. Yeah,

1073
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 3: that whole scene. I watched it a couple of times

1074
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:30,880
Speaker 3: because it's like way all over the place. It's just

1075
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:31,720
Speaker 3: really bizarre.

1076
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:34,480
Speaker 4: It feels atonal for the rest of the movie too.

1077
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:38,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, it feels cartoonish. But then the way

1078
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 3: that friendships between women are in Julia Child's world, I

1079
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 3: thought were like really thoughtful and gentle and like not

1080
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 3: without conflict, but still there's a ton of support and

1081
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:53,800
Speaker 3: like there are friends of Julia Child's that are, you know,

1082
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:58,280
Speaker 3: on equal footing of like narrative importance as her husband,

1083
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:02,440
Speaker 3: and that's really nice. I mean, I love the scenes

1084
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 3: with Juliet and Simca. I love that they're like, we're

1085
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:10,520
Speaker 3: gonna cut our third friend out of it, and then

1086
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:13,640
Speaker 3: they experience a little pushback and Julia's like, never mind,

1087
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:15,880
Speaker 3: because I would have done the same thing.

1088
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:21,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they're confronting Louisette because she's not doing her

1089
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:26,200
Speaker 1: share of the work, and Julia and Simca are frustrated,

1090
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:30,080
Speaker 1: rightfully so, because they're doing all the work and they

1091
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 1: sit Louisette down and then she's like, I'm going through

1092
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:37,400
Speaker 1: a divorce and they're like, ooh, yeah, okay, but then

1093
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:39,600
Speaker 1: they still kind of negotiate her down to like only

1094
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 1: receiving eighteen percent or something like that. Yeah, and they're like,

1095
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:45,840
Speaker 1: your name has to be small, but then Julia is like, no,

1096
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 1: your name can be big on the cover. It's fine.

1097
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:51,680
Speaker 3: I love a fellow conflict avoidant.

1098
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:55,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, but I do appreciate, like, I really liked

1099
01:02:56,000 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 1: that dynamic between those three friends and how I like

1100
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:05,720
Speaker 1: have to confront the one friend and yeah, it felt authentic.

1101
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 1: And then she also has a deep friendship with Avis,

1102
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 1: who she like is penpals with for eight years, and

1103
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:15,560
Speaker 1: then they finally meet on screen and the.

1104
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:20,240
Speaker 3: AVS reveal is so honestly, this is really sweet and

1105
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:23,360
Speaker 3: also so weird because you're like, wow, it's AVS and

1106
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 3: then it's just like a tiny Avis.

1107
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:30,760
Speaker 4: I love that so much. I feel very close to

1108
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 4: Julia Child in that way. I have many friends that

1109
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:38,840
Speaker 4: I've only communicated with online for many years pre Tumblr

1110
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:42,000
Speaker 4: a pen pal. It's so sweet.

1111
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 3: I think that Julia story just is less messy in general,

1112
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:49,200
Speaker 3: But like the Julia story navigates like, yeah, meeting a

1113
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:52,760
Speaker 3: friend you've only written to for the first time in

1114
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 3: this really sweet and cathartic way. But the parasocial relationships

1115
01:03:56,840 --> 01:04:02,840
Speaker 3: in Julie's worlds are weird confusing. Julie's world is weird

1116
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:06,360
Speaker 3: and confusing. Yeah, in general, I think she should divorce

1117
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 3: all of her friends. I did like the Marilyn Ris

1118
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:13,200
Speaker 3: cub character, like she is a sweet, supportive friend, but also, yeah,

1119
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:17,400
Speaker 3: you're being a bitch, like, I mean, you know, language choice, eh,

1120
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:20,960
Speaker 3: But she is being unbelievably self centered in that scene

1121
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:22,960
Speaker 3: because she's like, by the way, I'm going through a

1122
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:25,400
Speaker 3: really big breakup and Amy Adams is like, oh my god,

1123
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:29,280
Speaker 3: I totally forgot anyways back to me, and I was like, whoop,

1124
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 3: bad friend.

1125
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:31,480
Speaker 4: So funny.

1126
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:34,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, she is like not a great friend either. I

1127
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 3: don't know, MESSI is.

1128
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:39,600
Speaker 1: That a good transition to talk about the husbands, because

1129
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:44,920
Speaker 1: that's yeah, Julie's husband, Eric's big problem with this whole project,

1130
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:47,200
Speaker 1: and I have Okay, here my thoughts on it. What

1131
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 1: do you think? Okay, So we see him being generally

1132
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:54,560
Speaker 1: supportive to Julie, especially at first he helps her set

1133
01:04:54,640 --> 01:04:59,600
Speaker 1: up the blog. He encourages her verbally and with compliments

1134
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:02,040
Speaker 1: and stuff like that he loves her cooking. But then

1135
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 1: there's that rocky part in the middle where he gets

1136
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:10,320
Speaker 1: frustrated and he bails for a little bit, and he

1137
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:13,600
Speaker 1: calls her narcissistic and all this stuff, and I feel

1138
01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 1: like we are not given enough information to know if him,

1139
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:20,240
Speaker 1: you know, being pissed off and accusing her of being

1140
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:24,640
Speaker 1: self absorbed is justified, or if it's just a man

1141
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:30,000
Speaker 1: expecting certain behavior from a woman. And also another component

1142
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 1: of it, which the movie doesn't like frame it this

1143
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:36,040
Speaker 1: way at all or examine, But this happens a lot

1144
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:40,120
Speaker 1: in real life in hetero couples, where men feel threatened

1145
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:43,600
Speaker 1: if their wife is doing better than them professionally or financially,

1146
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:47,000
Speaker 1: or if they're like, you know, their wife is having

1147
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 1: success in some regard and men feel very threatened by

1148
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:53,760
Speaker 1: that a lot of the time. And I was like, okay,

1149
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:56,560
Speaker 1: is there a component of that with the Eric characters,

1150
01:05:56,600 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 1: he threatened by this success that his his wife is

1151
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:04,800
Speaker 1: finding kind of suddenly, And again the movie doesn't examine

1152
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 1: that or really acknowledge that, But I was like, hmm,

1153
01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:10,200
Speaker 1: this does happen a lot, So I wonder if that

1154
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:13,480
Speaker 1: was part of it, or if it's just Julie being

1155
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:18,840
Speaker 1: selfish and uncompromising. But you know, who can say yeah.

1156
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:22,200
Speaker 3: I was also struggling to yeah. Summer thoughts.

1157
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 4: I don't know. I think every time I watch the movie,

1158
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:27,720
Speaker 4: I feel a little differently about their fight. I watched

1159
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:29,800
Speaker 4: it twice before this, and so I watched it last

1160
01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 4: week and I watched it last night, and between those

1161
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:36,240
Speaker 4: different times I felt differently. I think it is very

1162
01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:41,640
Speaker 4: alienating for someone who you love and who supports you

1163
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:44,760
Speaker 4: to make you feel worse when you're having a meltdown

1164
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:48,280
Speaker 4: by responding in a way that is like, you know,

1165
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:51,120
Speaker 4: like she's very upset because something is very important to her,

1166
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 4: and his response is kind of brushing it off. I

1167
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:58,480
Speaker 4: don't even think I feel like it wasn't kind of

1168
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:00,360
Speaker 4: a twist of like, well, let's be positi if we

1169
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:02,960
Speaker 4: have good food and you can reschedule, you know, like

1170
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:06,160
Speaker 4: with Judith Jones rescheduling, It was a little like why

1171
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:09,400
Speaker 4: is this important? And that can feel really devastating and horrible,

1172
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:12,040
Speaker 4: especially if you are someone who is prone to meltdowns.

1173
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:14,680
Speaker 4: And I think having a meltdown when something goes wrong

1174
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:20,920
Speaker 4: valid and apecially saying yes, Oh, it is very devastating

1175
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:23,000
Speaker 4: and overwhelming in the moment, and so I don't know.

1176
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:25,200
Speaker 4: Every single time I watch it, I wonder where that

1177
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:29,560
Speaker 4: comes from, Like whether it is not believing what she's

1178
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:32,919
Speaker 4: doing is important and it's like, yeah, no one will

1179
01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:35,400
Speaker 4: be mad at you if someone canceled on you for dinner.

1180
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:37,400
Speaker 4: And I think that's something that she needed to hear.

1181
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:43,040
Speaker 4: This projection of like responsibility on her readers. It's warped

1182
01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:45,960
Speaker 4: and it's unhealthy to feel like you owe something to

1183
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:49,360
Speaker 4: other people when you don't really because otherwise I think

1184
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:52,600
Speaker 4: he's a fantastic husband. He's so kind, he's having such

1185
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:55,040
Speaker 4: a good time with her, and he's very supportive, and

1186
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:58,520
Speaker 4: I think sometimes I wish we'd seen maybe a little

1187
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:01,480
Speaker 4: bit more of a build up of his frustration, or

1188
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:05,200
Speaker 4: in what ways is she distracted from their marriage outside

1189
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:07,720
Speaker 4: of like she spends all her free time making really

1190
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:08,920
Speaker 4: good food. I don't know.

1191
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:12,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like it comes out of nowhere.

1192
01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:15,400
Speaker 3: I wonder if there's like a missing scene or something.

1193
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:17,880
Speaker 3: I just feel like, I it's really hard to fall

1194
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:20,960
Speaker 3: on like a hard interpretation because I just feel like

1195
01:08:21,000 --> 01:08:23,840
Speaker 3: I don't have enough information because it's not like we

1196
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:29,360
Speaker 3: haven't seen examples of Julie brushing off other people in

1197
01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:33,800
Speaker 3: favor of herself and her own problems. We've saw her

1198
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:37,519
Speaker 3: do that with her friend, so it's not like there's

1199
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:40,960
Speaker 3: no precedent for this. But also we haven't really seen

1200
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:43,479
Speaker 3: her do this to him. We don't really know. I mean,

1201
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 3: I feel like we're usually having this conversation in the reverse,

1202
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:48,800
Speaker 3: but like we don't really know much about it, Like, no,

1203
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:52,160
Speaker 3: I don't really know, like does he feel like her

1204
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:55,600
Speaker 3: pursuing this dream? There's no space within the relationship for

1205
01:08:55,680 --> 01:08:59,320
Speaker 3: him to pursue his like what would he rather this

1206
01:08:59,400 --> 01:09:02,439
Speaker 3: time be used for? Because it also is such a

1207
01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:05,240
Speaker 3: valid and common thing to be like, actually, you know,

1208
01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:08,360
Speaker 3: this started fun, but now you're getting too much attention

1209
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:11,280
Speaker 3: and I'm not comfortable with it. Yeah, but that wasn't

1210
01:09:11,320 --> 01:09:13,599
Speaker 3: really who I understood that character to be up to then.

1211
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 3: So it was just feels, honestly like an end of

1212
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:21,120
Speaker 3: Act to Contrivance where he leaves and then comes back

1213
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:23,120
Speaker 3: three days later in spite of the fact that the

1214
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:26,800
Speaker 3: one thing he asked for she blatantly ignored, which also

1215
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:28,760
Speaker 3: made me be like, maybe he was right to be

1216
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:30,400
Speaker 3: hailing her for a while because he's like, please just

1217
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:33,479
Speaker 3: don't write about me and your blog right now, and

1218
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:35,960
Speaker 3: then she did, and then he's like, actually, I don't care,

1219
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:38,280
Speaker 3: and you're like, this is just bizarre.

1220
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:43,280
Speaker 1: Is the implication being that, like she writes in a

1221
01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:45,680
Speaker 1: way that is like, I had a fight with my

1222
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:48,439
Speaker 1: husband who wasn't being supportive enough, and then she deletes that,

1223
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:50,439
Speaker 1: and then she writes in such a way that it's

1224
01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:56,320
Speaker 1: like she's acknowledging her own fault in the fight as

1225
01:09:56,439 --> 01:09:59,720
Speaker 1: it relates to what her husband is concerned about. And

1226
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:02,760
Speaker 1: then reads that and he's like, Wow, she's acknowledging that

1227
01:10:02,840 --> 01:10:05,800
Speaker 1: she was wrong, and that's why I'm coming back to her.

1228
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:09,200
Speaker 1: That's the impression I got, Yes.

1229
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:11,120
Speaker 3: But it's like that also is so dissonant because he's

1230
01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:14,719
Speaker 3: reading about it because she didn't do what he asked.

1231
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:20,160
Speaker 3: I think that they're both acting very weird in that sequence,

1232
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:25,000
Speaker 3: and that it felt like a contrivance that this movie

1233
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:27,680
Speaker 3: is too good for kind of I.

1234
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:31,519
Speaker 4: Think like a kind of overall issue with the movie

1235
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:34,599
Speaker 4: is that it doesn't affirm. It's very much about external

1236
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 4: validation on the Julie side, not on the Julia side.

1237
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:42,639
Speaker 4: Julia is so confident in herself. But everything with Julie

1238
01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:47,559
Speaker 4: is she is performing like for her readers, huh, like

1239
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:50,200
Speaker 4: I am, yes, I am a selfish person and a

1240
01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:53,200
Speaker 4: bad wife sometimes for her readers, and it's not for

1241
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:56,000
Speaker 4: her husband. It's not for herself, right. And it's in

1242
01:10:56,040 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 4: that like ending monologue where Eric is like, the Julia

1243
01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:03,320
Speaker 4: in your head is what matters. It's still not about

1244
01:11:03,360 --> 01:11:08,200
Speaker 4: like finding confidence in your art and your life, in yourself.

1245
01:11:08,240 --> 01:11:12,720
Speaker 4: It's still this sort of manifestation of external validation. And

1246
01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:15,400
Speaker 4: throughout the movie her mother is like, this isn't important.

1247
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:18,519
Speaker 4: She needs to know it's important herself, and that's kind

1248
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:21,720
Speaker 4: of what their argument feels like it's about. But it

1249
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:25,400
Speaker 4: doesn't land because she doesn't find value in the work

1250
01:11:25,439 --> 01:11:27,519
Speaker 4: she's doing because she's doing it. She still finds it

1251
01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:29,080
Speaker 4: because people are reading her.

1252
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:34,280
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, which is again like that's an interesting thing

1253
01:11:34,439 --> 01:11:37,360
Speaker 3: to explore and so many I mean, I've been that

1254
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:41,120
Speaker 3: writer at various points one hundred percent, Yeah, you're given

1255
01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:46,320
Speaker 3: something interesting, But then it turns into this bizarre the

1256
01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:48,360
Speaker 3: way it's like touched on it has to do with

1257
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:51,519
Speaker 3: the relationship, and all of a sudden he seems threatened

1258
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:54,519
Speaker 3: and frustrated by her, and he has never seemed that way,

1259
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:56,439
Speaker 3: and we're like, what am I so about? Like am

1260
01:11:56,439 --> 01:11:58,439
Speaker 3: I supposed to think this was in him the whole time?

1261
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:01,720
Speaker 3: And then like you're saying, Caitlin, like it's unclear, like

1262
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:05,920
Speaker 3: does she owe anyone an apology in this situation? It

1263
01:12:05,960 --> 01:12:07,960
Speaker 3: feels more like this is a battle that needs to

1264
01:12:07,960 --> 01:12:10,320
Speaker 3: happen internally for her, and they turn it into a

1265
01:12:10,360 --> 01:12:13,479
Speaker 3: relationship battle instead in a way that's.

1266
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:15,719
Speaker 1: Confusing hard to say.

1267
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:17,920
Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah, I felt weird about that too.

1268
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:21,120
Speaker 3: Other than that, though, it's like the two romantic relationships

1269
01:12:21,160 --> 01:12:22,759
Speaker 3: in this movie are pretty lovely.

1270
01:12:23,200 --> 01:12:27,599
Speaker 4: They're beautiful. They're like my favorite romantic relationships in movies,

1271
01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:29,760
Speaker 4: I think, especially.

1272
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:30,680
Speaker 3: Merrily and Tucci.

1273
01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:35,439
Speaker 1: Come on, come on. Yeah, So paul and we've already

1274
01:12:35,479 --> 01:12:39,800
Speaker 1: talked about the level of privilege that Julia Child experiences

1275
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:41,280
Speaker 1: that allows.

1276
01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:45,040
Speaker 3: Cia legendary, the Cia romance of the century.

1277
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:48,120
Speaker 1: Right, But the thing with Paula is that like he's

1278
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:52,559
Speaker 1: only ever shown to be completely supportive of Julia. He's

1279
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:55,200
Speaker 1: never calling her narcissistic or anything like that, and that

1280
01:12:55,280 --> 01:12:59,040
Speaker 1: feels especially unusual considering this is like the nineteen forties

1281
01:12:59,080 --> 01:13:02,040
Speaker 1: slash fifties. This is when women were not encouraged to

1282
01:13:02,080 --> 01:13:06,559
Speaker 1: have careers, especially married women. So for him to be like, yeah,

1283
01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:09,839
Speaker 1: do whatever you want, Try make a hat, try cooking,

1284
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:13,759
Speaker 1: do anything, and then she pursues that dream and he's

1285
01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:17,599
Speaker 1: like so supportive along the way. I'm curious to know

1286
01:13:17,640 --> 01:13:22,720
Speaker 1: if that's how that relationship actually manifested or not. But

1287
01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:25,000
Speaker 1: at least as far as what we see in the movie,

1288
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:32,080
Speaker 1: Paul is like unwaveringly supportive of Julia Child and I

1289
01:13:32,160 --> 01:13:36,920
Speaker 1: appreciated seeing that. It's not as though other men around

1290
01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:40,439
Speaker 1: her are unwaveringly supportive, because you have that kind of

1291
01:13:40,479 --> 01:13:44,160
Speaker 1: series of scenes where she starts that cooking class at

1292
01:13:44,479 --> 01:13:48,639
Speaker 1: les codne Bleue and it's all men in the class,

1293
01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:52,240
Speaker 1: and it's all people who are like already professional chefs.

1294
01:13:52,400 --> 01:13:56,240
Speaker 1: I guess they're honing their skills or something. But they

1295
01:13:57,240 --> 01:13:58,880
Speaker 1: judge her.

1296
01:13:58,600 --> 01:13:58,800
Speaker 4: You know.

1297
01:13:58,840 --> 01:14:00,920
Speaker 1: She says something like, you should have seen the way

1298
01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:03,280
Speaker 1: those men looked at me, like I'm just some frivolous

1299
01:14:03,280 --> 01:14:06,439
Speaker 1: housewife looking for a way to kill time, and that

1300
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:10,760
Speaker 1: is probably what they assumed when they saw her. And

1301
01:14:11,479 --> 01:14:16,200
Speaker 1: she is shown having to put an extra effort and

1302
01:14:16,240 --> 01:14:19,960
Speaker 1: work extra hard to prove herself, the way that many

1303
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:23,400
Speaker 1: women and marginalized people in general have to do to

1304
01:14:23,439 --> 01:14:27,120
Speaker 1: earn any level of respect or to have access to

1305
01:14:27,160 --> 01:14:31,160
Speaker 1: the same opportunities as their counterparts who are more privileged.

1306
01:14:31,240 --> 01:14:35,320
Speaker 1: And so we see Julia doing all of that extra

1307
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:38,320
Speaker 1: work to try to like fit in and prove herself

1308
01:14:38,320 --> 01:14:42,639
Speaker 1: and all that stuff, and then a letter to Avis

1309
01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:45,639
Speaker 1: later on, she says something like, and now I'm way

1310
01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:49,639
Speaker 1: ahead of the others in my class, all men, all

1311
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:53,240
Speaker 1: of them unfriendly, until they discovered that I was fearless.

1312
01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:57,880
Speaker 1: So then they come to respect her because she displays

1313
01:14:58,240 --> 01:15:01,320
Speaker 1: a trait that is traditionally considered masculine.

1314
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:03,799
Speaker 3: Right, It's like you have to be exceptional to deserve

1315
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:05,360
Speaker 3: respect kind of, right.

1316
01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:07,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, she's brave and she's fearless. She's not

1317
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:10,320
Speaker 1: this like, you know, quote unquote timid woman that the

1318
01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:13,000
Speaker 1: men expected her to be. But she's like, I'm gonna

1319
01:15:13,080 --> 01:15:16,280
Speaker 1: kill this lobster, and they're like, wow, she's so cool,

1320
01:15:16,479 --> 01:15:20,599
Speaker 1: and then she, you know, garners their respect. I thought

1321
01:15:20,640 --> 01:15:23,160
Speaker 1: all of that was, like, you know, not a huge

1322
01:15:23,160 --> 01:15:25,240
Speaker 1: part of the movie, but I'm glad it was touched

1323
01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:27,800
Speaker 1: on to some degree. Yeah.

1324
01:15:27,840 --> 01:15:30,240
Speaker 3: Again, it's like it's a very like rom commy way

1325
01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:32,519
Speaker 3: of touching on it, but it touches on it. I

1326
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:36,120
Speaker 3: was curious more because again I just like mainly know

1327
01:15:36,200 --> 01:15:39,880
Speaker 3: about Julia Child through this movie and through what is

1328
01:15:39,960 --> 01:15:44,920
Speaker 3: largely considered to be a wildly historically inaccurate mini series. Yeah,

1329
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:47,759
Speaker 3: there's literally a scene in the mini series where Betty

1330
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:50,880
Speaker 3: Fridan yells at Julia Child and it is like you're

1331
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:54,559
Speaker 3: not a real feminist, which never happened, and they're like, well,

1332
01:15:54,640 --> 01:15:58,280
Speaker 3: but like we wanted to explore, You're like, you can't

1333
01:15:58,320 --> 01:16:02,040
Speaker 3: do that, that's cheating. She was a person. Anyways, I

1334
01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:06,439
Speaker 3: was curious, especially after seeing how wildly like over the

1335
01:16:06,479 --> 01:16:12,400
Speaker 3: top the miniseries went, what Julia Child's relationship to feminism was,

1336
01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:18,160
Speaker 3: because she was prominent as second wave feminism was becoming

1337
01:16:18,840 --> 01:16:22,639
Speaker 3: a conversation and second wave feminism we can save that

1338
01:16:22,720 --> 01:16:26,479
Speaker 3: for another day. However, it was interesting where Julia Child

1339
01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:31,519
Speaker 3: never really allied herself with a feminist movement, but she

1340
01:16:31,680 --> 01:16:35,479
Speaker 3: also in her time caught some shit from feminist movements

1341
01:16:35,520 --> 01:16:39,280
Speaker 3: because it was characterized as like she's encouraging women to

1342
01:16:39,400 --> 01:16:43,960
Speaker 3: stay in the kitchen, which I see the thinking behind it.

1343
01:16:44,000 --> 01:16:47,200
Speaker 3: But I'm kind of grateful that most feminist movements have

1344
01:16:47,479 --> 01:16:50,599
Speaker 3: moved past that, because what Julia Child was doing, as

1345
01:16:50,600 --> 01:16:54,639
Speaker 3: we see in this spoofy, was extremely difficult for women

1346
01:16:54,720 --> 01:16:57,360
Speaker 3: to do, even with the degree of privilege that she had,

1347
01:16:57,560 --> 01:17:02,400
Speaker 3: And cooking does not have to be an inherently oppressive task,

1348
01:17:02,479 --> 01:17:04,679
Speaker 3: but it has been put on women in that way.

1349
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:07,240
Speaker 3: But Julia Child was cooking for joy, she was producing

1350
01:17:07,240 --> 01:17:09,760
Speaker 3: her own stuff. She was like bi all accounts. I

1351
01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:14,040
Speaker 3: guess she was a reproductive rights champion, like she you know,

1352
01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:17,599
Speaker 3: wasn't a full blown feminist. But I think in her

1353
01:17:17,680 --> 01:17:22,800
Speaker 3: time was kind of unfairly criticized for pushing something that

1354
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:27,080
Speaker 3: it didn't seem like she was ever pushing really, like

1355
01:17:27,120 --> 01:17:29,840
Speaker 3: she was a woman who enjoyed cooking and wanted to

1356
01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:32,240
Speaker 3: make a show about it, and it was I don't know,

1357
01:17:32,240 --> 01:17:35,559
Speaker 3: I think kind of like unfairly politicized to make her

1358
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:36,080
Speaker 3: look worse.

1359
01:17:36,560 --> 01:17:40,840
Speaker 4: I think cooking and having the ability to cook and

1360
01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:44,439
Speaker 4: the skills to cook well and in a way that

1361
01:17:44,600 --> 01:17:47,760
Speaker 4: is like pleasurable, like you're creating something for yourself that

1362
01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:50,519
Speaker 4: is good and creating something for others that is good.

1363
01:17:50,560 --> 01:17:54,919
Speaker 4: There's very interesting conversations around that being like a bougie

1364
01:17:54,920 --> 01:17:58,360
Speaker 4: thing or a privileged thing when it feels like it

1365
01:17:58,400 --> 01:18:02,200
Speaker 4: should just be the most basic human right, like knowing

1366
01:18:02,200 --> 01:18:05,240
Speaker 4: how to use ingredients, where to get them from, how

1367
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:08,000
Speaker 4: to use them, and to nourish yourself and others. It

1368
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:12,200
Speaker 4: is a very interesting, contentious sort of conversation, and you know,

1369
01:18:12,200 --> 01:18:15,519
Speaker 4: there's degrees of course, like again, like having ten hours

1370
01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:18,400
Speaker 4: a day to slow cook something is a different kind

1371
01:18:18,400 --> 01:18:22,040
Speaker 4: of conversation. But the act of cooking and being able

1372
01:18:22,040 --> 01:18:25,639
Speaker 4: to cook for yourself and especially not relying on you know,

1373
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:29,360
Speaker 4: like the scene when they're in the first publisher meeting

1374
01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:32,719
Speaker 4: and they have the book of like the Quick Houselife

1375
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:36,120
Speaker 4: kind of things. I think being able to break out

1376
01:18:36,160 --> 01:18:41,439
Speaker 4: of sort of mass consumerism notions of feeding yourself and

1377
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:44,280
Speaker 4: food is a radical act and not just you know,

1378
01:18:44,360 --> 01:18:48,040
Speaker 4: not to say like Julia Child's methods are radical that.

1379
01:18:48,120 --> 01:18:51,719
Speaker 4: I think that a lot of relationships in like anarchist

1380
01:18:51,800 --> 01:18:55,320
Speaker 4: food movements is knowing what you're using, how to use it,

1381
01:18:55,360 --> 01:18:58,400
Speaker 4: and how to not use things that are destroying the

1382
01:18:58,479 --> 01:19:00,519
Speaker 4: planet in our bodies right.

1383
01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:06,400
Speaker 1: Well, there's also a difference between the expectation for women

1384
01:19:06,680 --> 01:19:10,360
Speaker 1: to do these domestic chores such as cooking and you know,

1385
01:19:10,479 --> 01:19:14,720
Speaker 1: nurturing and nourishing her husbands and children and stuff like that,

1386
01:19:15,160 --> 01:19:20,479
Speaker 1: and cooking as a career because historically men are chefs,

1387
01:19:20,760 --> 01:19:23,639
Speaker 1: women are housewives who cook for their family.

1388
01:19:23,800 --> 01:19:24,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1389
01:19:24,520 --> 01:19:27,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, So for her to pursue being a professional chef,

1390
01:19:28,200 --> 01:19:29,760
Speaker 1: and as we see in that scene where she like

1391
01:19:30,240 --> 01:19:34,439
Speaker 1: goes to that class with other professional chefs who are

1392
01:19:34,479 --> 01:19:38,519
Speaker 1: all men, and like, that's still a cultural thing, but

1393
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:42,160
Speaker 1: it was certainly more pronounced back then. So for her

1394
01:19:42,200 --> 01:19:44,680
Speaker 1: to be like, yeah, I'm a woman, but I'm like

1395
01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:49,040
Speaker 1: a professional chef who can teach it, who can like

1396
01:19:49,560 --> 01:19:53,200
Speaker 1: create my own recipes and like sort of innovate different

1397
01:19:53,200 --> 01:19:57,760
Speaker 1: ways to do certain things like that was not the

1398
01:19:57,800 --> 01:20:00,679
Speaker 1: most common thing for women to be doing back then.

1399
01:20:00,840 --> 01:20:05,839
Speaker 1: So again, the movie doesn't necessarily like examine that that thoroughly,

1400
01:20:06,040 --> 01:20:08,439
Speaker 1: but you know, just from the context that we know

1401
01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:10,679
Speaker 1: about it, it's like, oh, that is cool.

1402
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:13,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think there's so many ways to look

1403
01:20:13,320 --> 01:20:16,040
Speaker 3: at what Julia Child. I don't know, it seems like

1404
01:20:16,040 --> 01:20:19,559
Speaker 3: we're all fans in the chat, but like there's like

1405
01:20:19,600 --> 01:20:22,720
Speaker 3: so many ways to sort of talk about it. But yeah,

1406
01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:25,559
Speaker 3: I feel like what a lot of the criticism of

1407
01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:28,240
Speaker 3: her missed was also that, like, what she's doing is

1408
01:20:28,280 --> 01:20:30,840
Speaker 3: cool from a class standpoint. She's teaching you how to

1409
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:35,360
Speaker 3: make fancy seeming food that I think a lot of

1410
01:20:35,640 --> 01:20:38,880
Speaker 3: people with less money would assume that they wouldn't be

1411
01:20:38,920 --> 01:20:41,040
Speaker 3: able to have at home. And you know, her whole

1412
01:20:41,080 --> 01:20:45,320
Speaker 3: thing was anyone can cook very ratitudey yet in that way,

1413
01:20:46,120 --> 01:20:50,680
Speaker 3: like anyone can cook with ingredients that are affordable. I

1414
01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:52,599
Speaker 3: mean the real cost is time. But also that she's

1415
01:20:52,600 --> 01:20:55,720
Speaker 3: broadcasting on PBS, so anyone can watch her do it, Like,

1416
01:20:55,760 --> 01:20:59,040
Speaker 3: I think that from a class standpoint, while she benefits

1417
01:20:59,080 --> 01:21:01,479
Speaker 3: from all this privilege, like in her later career, she

1418
01:21:01,560 --> 01:21:05,759
Speaker 3: kind of pays it forward by making what she's learned

1419
01:21:06,040 --> 01:21:09,360
Speaker 3: very accessible and that's really cool too.

1420
01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:09,920
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

1421
01:21:10,040 --> 01:21:10,240
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1422
01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:14,160
Speaker 1: There's also a small conversation that the movie kind of

1423
01:21:14,439 --> 01:21:19,200
Speaker 1: has in regards to who the cookbook is targeted toward,

1424
01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:24,360
Speaker 1: because it's specifically for American housewives who don't have servants

1425
01:21:24,400 --> 01:21:28,320
Speaker 1: to cook for them, and this is like nineteen fifties,

1426
01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:31,839
Speaker 1: like to me, peak housewife.

1427
01:21:31,240 --> 01:21:35,439
Speaker 3: Era, particularly like white housewives culture.

1428
01:21:35,640 --> 01:21:40,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so the publishers of the book in the

1429
01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:42,720
Speaker 1: various scenes where you know, they're meeting with publishers and

1430
01:21:42,760 --> 01:21:47,320
Speaker 1: being like, well, this isn't gonna work because housewives want

1431
01:21:47,439 --> 01:21:50,240
Speaker 1: something quick and easy and this book is seven hundred

1432
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:53,479
Speaker 1: pages of sauce recipes and like how is that? And

1433
01:21:53,560 --> 01:21:57,040
Speaker 1: so there's like this battle that the characters have to

1434
01:21:57,160 --> 01:22:00,799
Speaker 1: deal with as far as like catering to the specific

1435
01:22:00,840 --> 01:22:03,599
Speaker 1: demographic that has all of these like gender roles and

1436
01:22:03,600 --> 01:22:07,280
Speaker 1: engendered presumptions, you know, foisted upon them, right, and.

1437
01:22:07,240 --> 01:22:10,160
Speaker 3: Like how the people telling her who her book is

1438
01:22:10,200 --> 01:22:11,960
Speaker 3: for is a room full of men?

1439
01:22:12,200 --> 01:22:15,599
Speaker 4: You're right, yeah, yeah, you don't want to work with

1440
01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:20,880
Speaker 4: someone who belittles your assumed audience, right, Yeah.

1441
01:22:20,439 --> 01:22:23,320
Speaker 3: She's cool. I love that Meryl Street played her.

1442
01:22:23,800 --> 01:22:24,840
Speaker 4: She's so good at it.

1443
01:22:25,439 --> 01:22:27,000
Speaker 3: I just wish she had gotten to do it for

1444
01:22:27,080 --> 01:22:30,080
Speaker 3: the whole movie. Sorry, Julie, I just wish it be

1445
01:22:30,200 --> 01:22:31,280
Speaker 3: the whole movie.

1446
01:22:32,360 --> 01:22:35,360
Speaker 4: I think the gender dynamics with Julie and Eric as

1447
01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:38,840
Speaker 4: well are interesting in that she cooks dinner for them

1448
01:22:39,000 --> 01:22:42,040
Speaker 4: truly because she likes it. At least the movie doesn't

1449
01:22:42,320 --> 01:22:44,559
Speaker 4: sort of imply that she's doing it because she is

1450
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:48,320
Speaker 4: the wife, right. I don't remember how that's depicted in

1451
01:22:48,360 --> 01:22:50,320
Speaker 4: her book or in real life, and you know, there's

1452
01:22:50,320 --> 01:22:52,559
Speaker 4: always going to be the pressures of who does that

1453
01:22:52,600 --> 01:22:55,519
Speaker 4: in a heterosexual relationship, but it sort of kind of

1454
01:22:55,600 --> 01:22:57,439
Speaker 4: knocks it out of the way that it's like she's

1455
01:22:57,479 --> 01:22:59,599
Speaker 4: doing this because she finds joy in it, and they

1456
01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:03,000
Speaker 4: both eat such like gusto the way that like Christmasina

1457
01:23:03,080 --> 01:23:05,559
Speaker 4: eats is like kind of gross, but it's.

1458
01:23:05,439 --> 01:23:07,600
Speaker 1: So too enthusiastic.

1459
01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:09,240
Speaker 4: You're having so much fun.

1460
01:23:09,680 --> 01:23:11,880
Speaker 3: He's going for it. Yeah.

1461
01:23:11,960 --> 01:23:14,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, it feels like a good kind of like efficient

1462
01:23:14,120 --> 01:23:16,320
Speaker 4: way to kind of knock that, like she's doing this

1463
01:23:16,400 --> 01:23:18,160
Speaker 4: because she thinks cooking is fun.

1464
01:23:18,240 --> 01:23:23,000
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, sir. Anything else that y'all wanted to touch on for.

1465
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:26,800
Speaker 4: I want to talk about parasociality, Yes, yes, let's do it.

1466
01:23:27,040 --> 01:23:30,800
Speaker 4: I mean I am someone who gets hyper fixated on

1467
01:23:30,880 --> 01:23:36,480
Speaker 4: things pretty easily, and that often lends itself towards parasocial relationships.

1468
01:23:37,120 --> 01:23:39,479
Speaker 4: And it is something that is when I was a teenager,

1469
01:23:39,520 --> 01:23:45,519
Speaker 4: is quite damaging to your psyche. The belief of people

1470
01:23:45,560 --> 01:23:48,360
Speaker 4: that you do not know are your friends or oh

1471
01:23:48,479 --> 01:23:52,479
Speaker 4: anything to you outside of maybe like if you saw

1472
01:23:52,520 --> 01:23:55,120
Speaker 4: them on the street, maybe a basic respect as you

1473
01:23:55,120 --> 01:23:58,840
Speaker 4: would treat your other human kind of thing. But I'm

1474
01:23:58,920 --> 01:24:02,400
Speaker 4: so fascinated with the way that this movie decides in

1475
01:24:02,479 --> 01:24:07,040
Speaker 4: the end. What is good in these sort of relationships,

1476
01:24:07,080 --> 01:24:10,360
Speaker 4: both with Julie and Julia and then Julie towards her readers.

1477
01:24:11,080 --> 01:24:15,479
Speaker 4: The reliance on her readers for validation, as well as

1478
01:24:15,479 --> 01:24:18,160
Speaker 4: the continued like mantra of you're not a writer until

1479
01:24:18,160 --> 01:24:23,360
Speaker 4: you're published, so interesting, people don't say that anymore. The

1480
01:24:23,400 --> 01:24:25,920
Speaker 4: over affirmation of you're a writer if you write is

1481
01:24:26,120 --> 01:24:28,639
Speaker 4: very prevalent. Also, you're a writer if you don't write,

1482
01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:31,439
Speaker 4: and if you just want to, you know. But I

1483
01:24:31,479 --> 01:24:34,840
Speaker 4: walk away with it with feeling very strange. You know.

1484
01:24:35,160 --> 01:24:37,519
Speaker 4: I do think that thinking that someone you look up

1485
01:24:37,560 --> 01:24:40,720
Speaker 4: to doesn't respect your work is quite crushing. And I

1486
01:24:40,760 --> 01:24:46,240
Speaker 4: think a lot about in a Gilmore Girls when Mitcham

1487
01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:49,200
Speaker 4: tells Rory she's not a journalist and she steals a boat, Like,

1488
01:24:49,280 --> 01:24:51,000
Speaker 4: I think that's appropriate response.

1489
01:24:53,200 --> 01:24:56,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, On my most recent rewatch, I was like, wow,

1490
01:24:56,240 --> 01:24:58,080
Speaker 3: I really turned on her when she did that the

1491
01:24:58,120 --> 01:25:02,200
Speaker 3: first time, but the benefit of time, like it was

1492
01:25:02,240 --> 01:25:06,080
Speaker 3: a victimless crime. Everyone should steal a boat, I think,

1493
01:25:06,200 --> 01:25:08,200
Speaker 3: so a hero.

1494
01:25:08,600 --> 01:25:11,760
Speaker 4: But in the case of this, like, I don't know

1495
01:25:11,800 --> 01:25:14,559
Speaker 4: what does it mean to value the image of someone

1496
01:25:14,560 --> 01:25:19,439
Speaker 4: in your head over their actual personhood. If she did

1497
01:25:19,520 --> 01:25:22,400
Speaker 4: meet Julia in real life and they did have some

1498
01:25:22,439 --> 01:25:25,599
Speaker 4: sort of working relationship, I think Julie Powell went on

1499
01:25:25,640 --> 01:25:29,080
Speaker 4: to do like a Julia Child show on Food Network

1500
01:25:29,160 --> 01:25:31,519
Speaker 4: or something I don't know, maybe like a docu series

1501
01:25:31,600 --> 01:25:34,320
Speaker 4: or something I don't quite remember. But what does it

1502
01:25:34,960 --> 01:25:37,479
Speaker 4: mean to hold on to that? And I think it

1503
01:25:37,560 --> 01:25:41,439
Speaker 4: is dehumanizing in a way that in this case seems

1504
01:25:41,640 --> 01:25:44,200
Speaker 4: harmless in the context of a film, but can have

1505
01:25:44,280 --> 01:25:48,240
Speaker 4: greater rampifications towards celebrity, towards art, like what do we

1506
01:25:48,280 --> 01:25:51,360
Speaker 4: expect from someone? And I don't know, can you continue

1507
01:25:51,400 --> 01:25:54,599
Speaker 4: a relationship with the person in your head if the

1508
01:25:54,640 --> 01:25:57,440
Speaker 4: real person does something legitimately harmful?

1509
01:26:00,280 --> 01:26:03,439
Speaker 3: H It's really tricky. I don't know. Like the movie

1510
01:26:03,520 --> 01:26:06,840
Speaker 3: has a very light touch with it, and I find

1511
01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:09,240
Speaker 3: it a little frustrating. But I'm also like, that is

1512
01:26:09,320 --> 01:26:11,880
Speaker 3: such a especially in two thousand and nine, if like

1513
01:26:11,920 --> 01:26:16,000
Speaker 3: that conversation, like was it even really happening? Yeah, And

1514
01:26:16,560 --> 01:26:19,559
Speaker 3: I've been in the position of Julie as well, where

1515
01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:22,559
Speaker 3: it's like you're really evangelizing about someone whose work you

1516
01:26:22,640 --> 01:26:25,200
Speaker 3: really love, that truly been informative to you, and then

1517
01:26:25,360 --> 01:26:28,479
Speaker 3: to find out, you know, it's different. To find out

1518
01:26:28,840 --> 01:26:33,320
Speaker 3: who they really are is troubling or even just not

1519
01:26:33,479 --> 01:26:36,479
Speaker 3: who you doesn't square with what your image of them was.

1520
01:26:36,960 --> 01:26:39,160
Speaker 3: I think on this viewing what I felt. I really

1521
01:26:39,160 --> 01:26:43,040
Speaker 3: felt for Julie because it wasn't like she was actively

1522
01:26:43,920 --> 01:26:46,280
Speaker 3: asking what Julia Child thought, Like she sort of found

1523
01:26:46,320 --> 01:26:49,120
Speaker 3: out what Julia Child thought about the project against her will,

1524
01:26:49,360 --> 01:26:52,040
Speaker 3: which is a risk, you know, doing it and it

1525
01:26:52,040 --> 01:26:54,240
Speaker 3: become But I really felt for her where it wasn't

1526
01:26:54,320 --> 01:26:57,240
Speaker 3: like she was banging down Julia Child's door being like,

1527
01:26:57,280 --> 01:26:58,480
Speaker 3: do you like me?

1528
01:26:58,720 --> 01:26:59,880
Speaker 1: She just got a cold?

1529
01:27:00,479 --> 01:27:02,960
Speaker 3: Was like, hey, just so you know she doesn't like

1530
01:27:03,360 --> 01:27:07,439
Speaker 3: that is devastating, yes, you know. But also on the

1531
01:27:07,520 --> 01:27:11,320
Speaker 3: Julia Child part, what is her responsibility to Julie Powell,

1532
01:27:11,360 --> 01:27:14,439
Speaker 3: who objectively, I mean, we could talk about this in

1533
01:27:14,479 --> 01:27:17,240
Speaker 3: the context of this very show, like if we found

1534
01:27:17,240 --> 01:27:21,800
Speaker 3: out Alison Bechdel fucking hated us, right, it would hurt,

1535
01:27:21,880 --> 01:27:24,160
Speaker 3: but we would have to deal, you know, like it's

1536
01:27:24,200 --> 01:27:27,920
Speaker 3: not like us doing this show for seven years doesn't

1537
01:27:28,200 --> 01:27:31,639
Speaker 3: invite some sort of response from her should she choose

1538
01:27:31,680 --> 01:27:35,000
Speaker 3: to And yeah, it is like that parasocial question of

1539
01:27:35,080 --> 01:27:39,000
Speaker 3: like how do you navigate? Like how can you love?

1540
01:27:39,280 --> 01:27:39,400
Speaker 4: So?

1541
01:27:39,439 --> 01:27:43,439
Speaker 3: Because I think what Julia is doing is beautiful in

1542
01:27:43,640 --> 01:27:47,320
Speaker 3: its way where it's like she's drawing inspiration from another

1543
01:27:47,400 --> 01:27:52,479
Speaker 3: person to navigate a really hard portion in like her life,

1544
01:27:52,840 --> 01:27:58,040
Speaker 3: and that's what art can do and that's amazing. Yeah,

1545
01:27:58,080 --> 01:28:00,760
Speaker 3: and you know, I guess the only way to get

1546
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:03,439
Speaker 3: around it is to just never become famous enough for

1547
01:28:03,560 --> 01:28:07,080
Speaker 3: the person to hear about what you're up to, and

1548
01:28:07,120 --> 01:28:10,719
Speaker 3: then you're safe. But I don't think Julia Child owes

1549
01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:13,880
Speaker 3: her anything because at that point, Julie Powell is profiting

1550
01:28:13,960 --> 01:28:17,160
Speaker 3: off of perceived proximity between the two of them, which

1551
01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:20,719
Speaker 3: is also a valid discussion to have. But I also

1552
01:28:20,920 --> 01:28:24,160
Speaker 3: like feel really awful when Julie finds out that Julia

1553
01:28:24,200 --> 01:28:28,519
Speaker 3: doesn't like her against her will. That is devastating, I

1554
01:28:28,560 --> 01:28:36,520
Speaker 3: don't know, complicated. Yeah, Anyways, anyone who has a parasocial

1555
01:28:36,560 --> 01:28:40,920
Speaker 3: relationship with any of the three of us, we're so normal.

1556
01:28:40,600 --> 01:28:45,160
Speaker 1: And cool, we're so and actually, well to tie it

1557
01:28:45,240 --> 01:28:52,000
Speaker 1: all together, if anyone wants to see me in Paris

1558
01:28:52,920 --> 01:28:55,240
Speaker 1: because you feel like you have a parasocial relationship with

1559
01:28:55,240 --> 01:28:59,879
Speaker 1: me and you're a fan of my comedy Harris Social whoa.

1560
01:29:00,160 --> 01:29:04,040
Speaker 1: I can't even continue after hearing that, but I will.

1561
01:29:04,439 --> 01:29:07,839
Speaker 1: I will be doing some stand up comedy in Paris

1562
01:29:08,439 --> 01:29:13,880
Speaker 1: in early May, ahead of the Shrektannic tour that Jamie

1563
01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:17,120
Speaker 1: and I are doing. But I'm going to Paris early

1564
01:29:17,240 --> 01:29:20,679
Speaker 1: and I'm doing comedy, so everyone should come and see me. Sorry,

1565
01:29:20,680 --> 01:29:22,520
Speaker 1: I'm just plugging my shows.

1566
01:29:22,840 --> 01:29:26,320
Speaker 3: I'm going to Paris after the tour. Wow, and leave

1567
01:29:26,360 --> 01:29:30,040
Speaker 3: me alone, I talk. I don't want to. I want

1568
01:29:30,080 --> 01:29:31,960
Speaker 3: to be alone. I want to be alone.

1569
01:29:32,080 --> 01:29:36,160
Speaker 1: Fair. That's totally fair. Okay, any other thoughts or No,

1570
01:29:36,720 --> 01:29:37,960
Speaker 1: that's everything I had.

1571
01:29:40,240 --> 01:29:42,800
Speaker 3: I don't totally mean that. I mean it like mostly though.

1572
01:29:43,040 --> 01:29:44,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's fine.

1573
01:29:45,000 --> 01:29:48,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, let's see, let's see. I think that's everything

1574
01:29:48,520 --> 01:29:49,559
Speaker 3: that I had. Honestly.

1575
01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:50,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm good.

1576
01:29:51,400 --> 01:29:54,559
Speaker 3: Yeah. I could talk about parasastional relationships forever. But then

1577
01:29:54,600 --> 01:29:58,040
Speaker 3: sometimes it works out because that's like how like I

1578
01:29:58,080 --> 01:30:01,759
Speaker 3: admired your work before we I met, Like it all

1579
01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:03,400
Speaker 3: kind of worked out.

1580
01:30:03,560 --> 01:30:06,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, I fully had a para social relation with the book.

1581
01:30:06,400 --> 01:30:09,000
Speaker 4: If you're been a listener to this podcast.

1582
01:30:08,520 --> 01:30:10,920
Speaker 3: And now you're here, wow, yeah, and look at us.

1583
01:30:11,000 --> 01:30:12,479
Speaker 4: Sometimes it's fine.

1584
01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:15,920
Speaker 3: Well, folks, this movie passes the Bechdel test a whole lot.

1585
01:30:16,240 --> 01:30:19,559
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, all the time. It's mostly women talking about

1586
01:30:19,640 --> 01:30:24,519
Speaker 3: food and publishing deals. Yes, what a life kind of rocks.

1587
01:30:24,600 --> 01:30:28,639
Speaker 4: Oh wait, okay, the missus Joy of Cooking paid fifty

1588
01:30:28,760 --> 01:30:32,639
Speaker 4: seven thousand dollars. I got her book public.

1589
01:30:32,880 --> 01:30:35,200
Speaker 3: I can't poor.

1590
01:30:35,360 --> 01:30:38,760
Speaker 1: What was her name, Irmaurma rum Bar.

1591
01:30:39,080 --> 01:30:42,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that scene was so. I didn't fact

1592
01:30:42,200 --> 01:30:48,800
Speaker 3: check any of that, but like, so, yeah, that was

1593
01:30:48,840 --> 01:30:51,519
Speaker 3: like such a great Nora Ephron scene where it was

1594
01:30:51,640 --> 01:30:53,960
Speaker 3: just like, I feel like Nora Efro movies sometimes you're like,

1595
01:30:53,960 --> 01:30:57,080
Speaker 3: and here's women being really weird to each other for

1596
01:30:57,120 --> 01:31:03,000
Speaker 3: five minutes. You're like, all right, so good. It was awesome.

1597
01:31:03,320 --> 01:31:06,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yes, it does pass the Bechdel test lots

1598
01:31:06,320 --> 01:31:10,360
Speaker 1: and lots, but as far as the one true metric

1599
01:31:10,680 --> 01:31:13,280
Speaker 1: are Nipple scale, where we rate the movie on a

1600
01:31:13,280 --> 01:31:17,360
Speaker 1: scale of zero to five nipples based on examining the

1601
01:31:17,360 --> 01:31:21,240
Speaker 1: movie through an intersectional feminist lens. Like I said, I

1602
01:31:21,280 --> 01:31:28,040
Speaker 1: appreciate that the movie is about women finding purpose and

1603
01:31:28,240 --> 01:31:35,639
Speaker 1: pursuing inactivity that they love, and they have men around

1604
01:31:35,640 --> 01:31:39,320
Speaker 1: them who are supportive and to some extent friends around

1605
01:31:39,360 --> 01:31:42,920
Speaker 1: them who are supportive, except when it's Casey Wilson and

1606
01:31:42,960 --> 01:31:44,639
Speaker 1: all the mean girl bosses I.

1607
01:31:44,560 --> 01:31:47,759
Speaker 3: Love us, Like wow, Peak twenty twelve is Casey Wilson

1608
01:31:47,800 --> 01:31:49,960
Speaker 3: in one scene and you're like, should have been more.

1609
01:31:51,680 --> 01:31:52,799
Speaker 3: I love Casey Wilson.

1610
01:31:53,120 --> 01:31:55,920
Speaker 1: So on the surface, you know, there's some nice things

1611
01:31:55,960 --> 01:31:59,960
Speaker 1: going for the movie that I appreciate. But as we've discussed,

1612
01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:02,960
Speaker 1: there's other things that the movie either kind of glosses

1613
01:32:02,960 --> 01:32:05,519
Speaker 1: over and doesn't examine very thoroughly in a very like

1614
01:32:06,040 --> 01:32:08,760
Speaker 1: Nora Fron movie kind of way, such as like the

1615
01:32:08,760 --> 01:32:13,400
Speaker 1: class component and the level of privilege that the women

1616
01:32:13,479 --> 01:32:16,719
Speaker 1: and especially Julia Child had access to that allowed her

1617
01:32:17,080 --> 01:32:19,479
Speaker 1: to do all of these things. Because like, yeah, this

1618
01:32:19,560 --> 01:32:21,160
Speaker 1: conversation is happening.

1619
01:32:21,240 --> 01:32:21,960
Speaker 3: More and more.

1620
01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:23,720
Speaker 1: I see a lot of it, just like you know

1621
01:32:23,840 --> 01:32:27,840
Speaker 1: people on TikTok and Instagram examining how like oh, yeah,

1622
01:32:27,880 --> 01:32:30,920
Speaker 1: the things that we used to think were like a

1623
01:32:31,000 --> 01:32:33,519
Speaker 1: brave thing to do, like ooh, you moved to a

1624
01:32:33,560 --> 01:32:37,120
Speaker 1: new city, or you pursued this dream of yours or

1625
01:32:37,160 --> 01:32:39,040
Speaker 1: you did X y Z. It's not because you were

1626
01:32:39,080 --> 01:32:43,439
Speaker 1: like brave, It's because you had access to money that

1627
01:32:43,640 --> 01:32:46,559
Speaker 1: enabled you to do that. And that feels very much

1628
01:32:46,680 --> 01:32:49,679
Speaker 1: like the Julia Child of it all. But in any case,

1629
01:32:50,400 --> 01:32:54,439
Speaker 1: you know, there's things like that, there's the one character

1630
01:32:54,800 --> 01:32:59,479
Speaker 1: of color who has five seconds of screen time. Yeah,

1631
01:32:59,600 --> 01:33:06,040
Speaker 1: things like that. I do appreciate Julia Child's relationship with

1632
01:33:06,080 --> 01:33:09,080
Speaker 1: her sister Dorothy. I would have liked to see more

1633
01:33:09,120 --> 01:33:12,000
Speaker 1: of it. They seem really sweet together. So it's things

1634
01:33:12,040 --> 01:33:16,040
Speaker 1: like that. It's different relationships and again, women pursuing their

1635
01:33:16,080 --> 01:33:18,960
Speaker 1: dreams that I like to see. But it is a

1636
01:33:19,080 --> 01:33:23,559
Speaker 1: very like middle to upper middle class white woman version

1637
01:33:23,760 --> 01:33:27,000
Speaker 1: of all of that without the movie like really acknowledging

1638
01:33:27,120 --> 01:33:30,719
Speaker 1: any of it. So there's that, and with that in mind,

1639
01:33:31,040 --> 01:33:35,320
Speaker 1: I'll give the movie maybe like two and a half

1640
01:33:35,360 --> 01:33:39,760
Speaker 1: or three nipples. So I think is where I'm landing,

1641
01:33:40,040 --> 01:33:44,639
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna give them all to Julie's Orange Cat.

1642
01:33:44,960 --> 01:33:48,720
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm gonna go higher. I think I'm going to

1643
01:33:48,760 --> 01:33:54,320
Speaker 3: go three point seven five. Wow. Because I agree with

1644
01:33:54,520 --> 01:33:57,400
Speaker 3: everything that you said, Caitlin. I think the whiteness of

1645
01:33:57,439 --> 01:34:01,360
Speaker 3: this movie is undeniable. It's like showing you class, but

1646
01:34:01,680 --> 01:34:05,320
Speaker 3: not the kind of just leaving everything on the table,

1647
01:34:05,520 --> 01:34:06,880
Speaker 3: if you will.

1648
01:34:07,320 --> 01:34:09,040
Speaker 1: Right next to the bechamel sauce.

1649
01:34:09,160 --> 01:34:14,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. But this movie is written and directed by

1650
01:34:14,680 --> 01:34:18,400
Speaker 3: one of our most iconic women directors and also based

1651
01:34:18,479 --> 01:34:22,479
Speaker 3: on the writings of two women, you know, And I

1652
01:34:22,479 --> 01:34:26,760
Speaker 3: think that that is unusual enough, and also the fact

1653
01:34:26,760 --> 01:34:31,120
Speaker 3: that this movie did very well. It's uneven and in

1654
01:34:31,160 --> 01:34:35,320
Speaker 3: some ways flat out weird, but I think that there

1655
01:34:35,400 --> 01:34:38,439
Speaker 3: is a lot being explored here. A lot of it

1656
01:34:38,479 --> 01:34:42,960
Speaker 3: isn't fully explored. But yeah, sorry about women and like

1657
01:34:43,040 --> 01:34:46,920
Speaker 3: their ambition and how that ambition is interpreted in different

1658
01:34:47,000 --> 01:34:51,920
Speaker 3: historical periods. There's like little touches where you don't really

1659
01:34:52,040 --> 01:34:56,599
Speaker 3: get a lot of beats about fertility in movies that

1660
01:34:56,720 --> 01:35:00,360
Speaker 3: doesn't then consume the whole movie, where you're shown like

1661
01:35:00,560 --> 01:35:03,320
Speaker 3: this is an element of Julia Child's life, but it

1662
01:35:03,360 --> 01:35:08,240
Speaker 3: doesn't define her. What defines her is her relationship to

1663
01:35:08,280 --> 01:35:10,920
Speaker 3: people and her relationship to her work. And I thought

1664
01:35:11,000 --> 01:35:15,040
Speaker 3: that was like a very subtle and well done. Yeah,

1665
01:35:15,080 --> 01:35:16,840
Speaker 3: it's all over the place, but I feel like there's

1666
01:35:16,880 --> 01:35:20,599
Speaker 3: a lot to love here, and yeah, so I'm gonna

1667
01:35:20,640 --> 01:35:23,719
Speaker 3: give it three point seventy five. Maybe that's too many,

1668
01:35:23,800 --> 01:35:26,080
Speaker 3: but it's just how I'm feeling today. I'm gonna give

1669
01:35:26,080 --> 01:35:28,879
Speaker 3: one to Jane Lynch. I'm gonna give one to Merril.

1670
01:35:29,080 --> 01:35:34,320
Speaker 3: I'm gonna give one to mary Lynn rys Cub and

1671
01:35:34,320 --> 01:35:38,799
Speaker 3: I'm gonna give the rest to Simca. Yeah, nice Summer.

1672
01:35:39,120 --> 01:35:42,720
Speaker 4: I think I will go three point five. It is

1673
01:35:43,720 --> 01:35:47,680
Speaker 4: a movie about two real white women, and so I

1674
01:35:47,720 --> 01:35:52,479
Speaker 4: think my expectations towards racial diversity is like, well, that's

1675
01:35:52,640 --> 01:35:56,479
Speaker 4: kind of probably who they filled their life with. But yeah,

1676
01:35:56,520 --> 01:35:59,120
Speaker 4: similar reasons. I think that there's like a hint of

1677
01:35:59,200 --> 01:36:05,040
Speaker 4: class analysis. I think it is mostly beautiful and loving

1678
01:36:05,080 --> 01:36:08,560
Speaker 4: towards the act of cooking and what it means in

1679
01:36:08,640 --> 01:36:12,480
Speaker 4: a gendered capacity. I will give all of my nipples

1680
01:36:12,520 --> 01:36:16,639
Speaker 4: to Judith Jones because I love women who edit books

1681
01:36:16,920 --> 01:36:22,120
Speaker 4: as a woman who is technically an editor, an unemployed one,

1682
01:36:22,200 --> 01:36:23,200
Speaker 4: but someone.

1683
01:36:23,640 --> 01:36:24,960
Speaker 3: You are an editor.

1684
01:36:25,240 --> 01:36:29,280
Speaker 4: God damn, this is my sister in arms in book publishing.

1685
01:36:29,760 --> 01:36:33,200
Speaker 4: But uh, I want to recommend a book to your listeners.

1686
01:36:33,600 --> 01:36:35,400
Speaker 3: Yes, is it Raw Dog?

1687
01:36:36,600 --> 01:36:38,559
Speaker 4: Okay? So I mean I do have a food writing

1688
01:36:38,640 --> 01:36:41,000
Speaker 4: section on my shelf, and I do have Raw Dog

1689
01:36:41,200 --> 01:36:44,320
Speaker 4: next to a book by Alicia Kennedy called No Meat Required,

1690
01:36:44,400 --> 01:36:47,240
Speaker 4: and it's a really beautiful dichotomy of a book about

1691
01:36:47,280 --> 01:36:49,560
Speaker 4: like cultural history of plant based eating next to it

1692
01:36:49,640 --> 01:36:54,320
Speaker 4: Raw Dog, which I love. But it is called Tastemakers

1693
01:36:54,400 --> 01:36:58,240
Speaker 4: by mayk Sen and it is a group biography of

1694
01:36:58,320 --> 01:37:01,559
Speaker 4: seven immigrant women who change cooking in America. And so

1695
01:37:01,600 --> 01:37:04,920
Speaker 4: if you're interested in non white women who kind of

1696
01:37:05,120 --> 01:37:10,439
Speaker 4: created foundational texts in culinary history in the US and

1697
01:37:10,520 --> 01:37:15,280
Speaker 4: introduce different cuisines to home cooks, I would highly recommend it.

1698
01:37:15,280 --> 01:37:19,200
Speaker 4: It's beautiful. There is a little Julia Child interlude in it,

1699
01:37:19,280 --> 01:37:23,920
Speaker 4: just to kind of affirm her importance as a not

1700
01:37:24,160 --> 01:37:28,400
Speaker 4: immigrant women, but kind of the reverberations of her influence

1701
01:37:28,520 --> 01:37:31,599
Speaker 4: on those who came around and after her.

1702
01:37:32,400 --> 01:37:36,880
Speaker 3: I just placed a hold on it at the library. Wow, brave,

1703
01:37:37,240 --> 01:37:39,360
Speaker 3: shout out the libraries.

1704
01:37:39,960 --> 01:37:41,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really good.

1705
01:37:41,720 --> 01:37:44,479
Speaker 3: And tell us before you go, please tell us about

1706
01:37:44,880 --> 01:37:48,120
Speaker 3: your book, which is currently out. Yeah.

1707
01:37:48,479 --> 01:37:52,000
Speaker 4: I wrote a checkbook of poems that are inspired by

1708
01:37:52,120 --> 01:37:57,320
Speaker 4: the legend of Zelda. They are weird and sad and

1709
01:37:57,439 --> 01:38:02,919
Speaker 4: about Palestine. And yeah, you can get them on gameover

1710
01:38:03,000 --> 01:38:06,120
Speaker 4: books dot com or you can check in with your

1711
01:38:06,160 --> 01:38:09,439
Speaker 4: local bookstore. They should be able to order it. And

1712
01:38:10,400 --> 01:38:13,120
Speaker 4: I'm doing a mini tour. I'll be reading in la

1713
01:38:13,439 --> 01:38:17,439
Speaker 4: in March, late March, and then maybe I'll you know,

1714
01:38:17,479 --> 01:38:20,559
Speaker 4: I'll be around but Yeah, it's my first book with

1715
01:38:20,600 --> 01:38:22,840
Speaker 4: an ISBN and so I'm very happy.

1716
01:38:22,960 --> 01:38:25,639
Speaker 1: Oh congrats, I'm.

1717
01:38:25,439 --> 01:38:28,719
Speaker 3: So excited to read it. Congratulations And where can people?

1718
01:38:29,439 --> 01:38:33,600
Speaker 1: Where can people establish a parasocial relationship with you online?

1719
01:38:33,840 --> 01:38:34,080
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1720
01:38:34,320 --> 01:38:37,480
Speaker 4: Please find me at Borders bookstore on Instagram.

1721
01:38:38,680 --> 01:38:40,479
Speaker 3: Someone had to take up the mantle.

1722
01:38:41,800 --> 01:38:45,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, if Borders ever makes a comeback, they owe me

1723
01:38:45,240 --> 01:38:48,400
Speaker 4: a two point five million dollars for the handle O

1724
01:38:48,560 --> 01:38:49,960
Speaker 4: me I else play with it.

1725
01:38:50,040 --> 01:38:51,760
Speaker 3: That's the only way that we're going to be able

1726
01:38:51,800 --> 01:38:55,160
Speaker 3: to be home owners is by getting the good handles and.

1727
01:38:55,120 --> 01:38:57,320
Speaker 4: Then Twitter and far more active at.

1728
01:38:57,120 --> 01:38:58,519
Speaker 1: Some a this nice.

1729
01:38:58,880 --> 01:39:02,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, thank you so much for coming on this show.

1730
01:39:02,560 --> 01:39:06,640
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me come back anytime please, Yes.

1731
01:39:06,680 --> 01:39:09,360
Speaker 4: Hopefully I can come back for the Zelda movie.

1732
01:39:09,880 --> 01:39:13,599
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. Yes, you're both gonna have to school

1733
01:39:13,640 --> 01:39:16,200
Speaker 3: me because I know that you're both well versed.

1734
01:39:16,640 --> 01:39:21,080
Speaker 1: I just restarted Tears of the Kingdom because I'm sad

1735
01:39:21,120 --> 01:39:23,840
Speaker 1: and I was like, I need something that I can

1736
01:39:23,880 --> 01:39:27,720
Speaker 1: do for ten to fourteen hours a day, all in

1737
01:39:27,800 --> 01:39:31,400
Speaker 1: one chunk to take my mind off of that. So

1738
01:39:31,640 --> 01:39:36,800
Speaker 1: I'm replaying Tiers of the Kingdom. Brag anyway. You can

1739
01:39:36,840 --> 01:39:42,840
Speaker 1: follow us at Bechdelcast on social media. And speaking of tours,

1740
01:39:43,520 --> 01:39:48,920
Speaker 1: we will be in London, Oxford, Manchester and Edinburgh and

1741
01:39:48,960 --> 01:39:52,200
Speaker 1: we're doing the Shrek Tannic Tour. What does that mean. Well,

1742
01:39:52,320 --> 01:39:55,240
Speaker 1: sometimes we're doing a Titanic show, sometimes we're doing a

1743
01:39:55,280 --> 01:39:55,840
Speaker 1: Shrek show.

1744
01:39:56,600 --> 01:39:57,760
Speaker 3: Not that complicated.

1745
01:39:59,280 --> 01:40:02,080
Speaker 1: You'll just have to go link tree slash Bechtel Cast

1746
01:40:02,200 --> 01:40:05,040
Speaker 1: to find out more details. But we will be doing

1747
01:40:05,080 --> 01:40:08,479
Speaker 1: those shows in May and then, like I said, I'll

1748
01:40:08,520 --> 01:40:12,680
Speaker 1: be doing stand up in Paris, Berlin, I'm working on

1749
01:40:12,720 --> 01:40:15,200
Speaker 1: some shows in Copenhagen. I don't know if you know

1750
01:40:15,240 --> 01:40:18,519
Speaker 1: anything about the Copenhagen comedy scene, listeners, please.

1751
01:40:18,360 --> 01:40:18,800
Speaker 3: Let me know.

1752
01:40:19,240 --> 01:40:21,320
Speaker 1: I'm also going to be doing some shows in Dublin,

1753
01:40:22,040 --> 01:40:24,759
Speaker 1: so be on the lookout for all of those.

1754
01:40:25,360 --> 01:40:28,840
Speaker 3: And you can also always sign up for our Patreon

1755
01:40:28,960 --> 01:40:31,679
Speaker 3: aka Matreon, where you get for five bucks a month,

1756
01:40:31,920 --> 01:40:35,680
Speaker 3: access to two new episodes that are exclusive, usually just

1757
01:40:35,720 --> 01:40:38,400
Speaker 3: me and Caitlin, and access to one hundred and fifty

1758
01:40:38,400 --> 01:40:42,839
Speaker 3: episodes of back catalog. If you can imagine, we're doing

1759
01:40:43,080 --> 01:40:45,920
Speaker 3: a bunch of classic movies this month. And you can

1760
01:40:45,960 --> 01:40:49,320
Speaker 3: also get our merch over at teapublic dot com, slash

1761
01:40:49,479 --> 01:40:53,559
Speaker 3: v Bechdel Cast. Follow us on Instagram or Twitter. If

1762
01:40:53,560 --> 01:40:57,280
Speaker 3: you're so inclined, you'll know how to find us. And

1763
01:40:57,400 --> 01:41:01,680
Speaker 3: with that, oh, actually, wait, Summer, you're gonna be like

1764
01:41:01,760 --> 01:41:03,800
Speaker 3: Julia Child at the end of the movie today when

1765
01:41:03,880 --> 01:41:05,559
Speaker 3: you open your book for the first time.

1766
01:41:06,000 --> 01:41:08,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh my gosh, I'm doing my own boxing.

1767
01:41:08,160 --> 01:41:10,960
Speaker 3: And you're gonna have your Julia moments and there will

1768
01:41:10,960 --> 01:41:11,759
Speaker 3: be a freeze frame.

1769
01:41:11,880 --> 01:41:14,240
Speaker 1: For no reason. I love it.

1770
01:41:14,240 --> 01:41:16,360
Speaker 3: It's the club for some reason.

1771
01:41:17,680 --> 01:41:18,000
Speaker 4: Sure.

1772
01:41:25,640 --> 01:41:28,960
Speaker 1: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by

1773
01:41:29,000 --> 01:41:32,880
Speaker 1: Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited

1774
01:41:33,000 --> 01:41:36,160
Speaker 1: by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike

1775
01:41:36,280 --> 01:41:40,639
Speaker 1: Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Vosskrosenski. Our logo in merch

1776
01:41:40,800 --> 01:41:43,760
Speaker 1: is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to

1777
01:41:43,800 --> 01:41:48,200
Speaker 1: Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit

1778
01:41:48,240 --> 01:41:50,240
Speaker 1: link tree slash Bechdel Cast.