WEBVTT - Cultural Appropriation is Good Again 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:06.960 Why has Better help so obsessed with us because they 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:10.360 know that we and all of our listeners are deeply 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:19.960 unhinged virgins. I'm sure all of you are very upset 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:22.040 that this is the first time you're hearing us this week, 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:28.840 because you have been enjoying our bonus episodes all October long. 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:32.880 But I have to say, I'm so fucking happy Halloween 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:36.800 is over. Well, I mean, we're actually coming to from 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:41.640 the past. We are recording this pond actual Halloween. But girl, 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:45.840 this year it really really dragged. You know, as someone 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:50.800 who claims to be a Halloween queen, as this is 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:55.600 your favorite holiday, I believe I never said that. I 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:59.440 definitely think you've said that before. And I'm a spooky girl. 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:04.080 I'm not in a necessarily the Halloween devotee. All that 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:07.200 is to say, you're being a real Halloween grinch right now. 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:10.560 You are just Mount Crumpet. Well, actually, what's the mountain 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:12.840 in nightming Ri Christmas? That's like the mountain I don't 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:15.600 think it has a name, just like the curly curly mountain, 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:19.560 little little hill. No, obviously I love Halloween. It just 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:22.120 I have to say I was very unimpressed by the 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:26.200 celebrity Halloween costumes this year, and the person who won 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:32.360 Halloween in my opinion was Addison Raye. Addison ray doing 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:37.200 her Lady Gaga Paparazzi VMA's look like I was gagged. 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:41.080 I do kind of unfortunately agree that was a winner costume. 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:43.679 But all that is to say, Halloween is over now 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:46.680 and we are entering the holidays. You did you did? 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:49.520 You just like flip a switch and now, like Mariah Carry, 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:53.600 Christmas is playing or maybe probably Kelly Clarkson knowing you 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:56.680 you do? You know me? Well? I like first thing 0:01:56.800 --> 0:02:00.200 tomorrow I will be listening to Kelly Clarkson's Christmas out them. 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:03.120 Although you know what, maybe I should take some learnings 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:07.800 from Halloween and pace myself. But it's fine because I'm 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:10.399 going to be very busy over the next couple of weeks. Anyway. 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:14.640 I am about to start moving back to New York. 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:19.359 I um have a new apartment here. I'm flying back 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:22.240 to l A tomorrow to start packing up my stuff, 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:24.120 and I'll be back here in a couple of weeks. 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:27.320 So I'm just gonna let the chips fall where they 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:31.280 may when it comes to holiday stuff. Although I will 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:34.160 be getting a Christmas tree this year a big old 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:38.440 Christmas tree. Okay, yes, we um we you know, we've 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:42.480 been out and about, We've had COVID, we've had depressive episodes, 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:45.880 and we realized that there's tons on our backlog of 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:49.920 what we've been watching, reading, listening to and uh, we 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:53.000 decided to devote all of today's episode to the hot 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:56.720 topics of the last month. Where do we even start? 0:02:56.840 --> 0:03:02.720 This is the like of Virgin October ending summit. Um, 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:05.720 there has been a lot going on in culture and 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:09.239 we friend, you and I have not even seen each 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:15.600 other this month except for once to record an episode 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:18.680 um that will be coming next week on Indie Sleeves, 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:20.720 so you all should be very excited about that. And 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:22.840 then there was the time that you brought me soup 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:25.320 when I was sick, but I only talked to you 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:29.359 through the door each other. Now is finally the time 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:33.519 to come together talk about the things that all the 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:35.920 girlies are talking about. I think I would say top 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:39.320 of my list is we now have both seen Tar, 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:43.800 and Tar is the name on everybody's lips. It really 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:46.520 is like and it feels like it's going to be 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:51.400 an ongoing conversation as we enter Awards season. But damn, 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:55.400 this movie was good. Rose, Like you primed me. Obviously 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.960 everyone has primed me, but this was like such an 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:02.400 incredible movie. And you know, it was two and a 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:04.800 half hours long. I did not pee once. I did 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:08.680 not have to pe. I was enthralled the whole time. 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:11.880 I never felt antsy, it did not feel overly long. 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:16.000 I was enthralled throughout the entirety of it. I want 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:18.560 to see it again, you know. I didn't want to 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:22.760 lead with the negative, but I actually will just I'm gonna, yeah, 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:24.520 but I will, and I'm gonna get it out of 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:27.920 the way because it's on what you just mentioned. You know, 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:31.840 the length, to me is a hundred percent earned. But 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:36.400 I did walk out of this film feeling like there 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:44.400 were many parts that were undeniably boring because of the 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:48.880 length of the cuts. I believe the longest scene in 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:52.400 this movie without a cut is like ten or eleven minutes. 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:55.520 It's like it's that, um, the scene in the lecture hall, 0:04:55.640 --> 0:05:00.200 no spoilers, that's so incredible, incredible scene. Um. And I 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:02.280 think when I walked out, I was kind of like 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:04.880 this movie was like kind of up its own ass 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:07.480 and like it was like, you know, way too long 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:09.280 and like these are the I like kind of walked 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:11.279 out of it feeling like I didn't love the movie, 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:15.160 and I also don't like the ending. But as I 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:18.800 sat with it and digested it, um, I think twenty 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:23.880 four hours later, I was like, wait, Like the mundaneity 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:26.560 that I was feeling watching some of these scenes was 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:32.039 actually part of the brilliance because, for example, I guess, 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:35.239 like I can spoil this the first we were spoiling 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:42.720 we need everyone, Okay, okay, well it's Phoebe's like, I'm 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:46.080 going to mute you. I don't want it spoiled. Um. 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:47.800 But at the end of the day, the thing that 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:51.120 makes this movie brilliant is that it is a perfect 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:55.000 and very truthful character study. And Lydia Tar is so 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:58.800 lived in and such a real character that she actually 0:05:58.839 --> 0:05:59.960 by the end of the movie, You're like, this is 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.240 a real woman. This is a real woman. In two 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:06.080 and I'm going to go, like, consume more Lydiatar. Um. Yeah, 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:09.680 Like I truly believe that she exists in the world. 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:14.039 Like I would go to Spotify and type in lydiatar 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:19.360 expecting to find her entire discography. I'm really surprised you 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:24.880 didn't like the ending because I loved the ending. I 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:29.039 walked out of the theater cackling because the ending was 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:35.680 just so abrupt and hilarious and perfect. Okay, well, I 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:38.440 mean I have nuanced thoughts on it. But the first 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:43.240 four minutes of the movie is Lydiatar literally at a 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:47.279 New Yorker talk with Adam Gottnick, which is hilarious. And um, 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:50.800 it's just him listing off every single one of her 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:56.880 credits and the camera is not moving. Okay, the credits 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:01.320 are being listed. I am sitting watching this at bam okay, 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:04.560 so like it almost feels like I'm at the New 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:08.320 Yorker talk and and and I would get bored at 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:10.880 a New Yorker talk. And in the first four minutes 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:13.000 of the movie, I found myself being like, wait, how 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:15.680 long is this gonna go? Like wait, really like this 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:18.840 is like such a lot. I just felt confused. But 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:22.200 as you realize what the stylings of the movie are 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:25.960 and how it's it's really trying to create a hyper 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:29.200 realism that is so pulled off by the brilliance of 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:33.320 Cape Blanchet, I think that truthfulness and that realness is 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:37.800 what ended up making me like the movie a lot more. Um, 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:40.200 But okay, let's talk about the ending. If we're going 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:44.880 to talk about the ending, I thought that that truthfulness 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:50.680 presented a very complex villain slash bully like she she's 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:54.240 basically like a lesbian douchebag, right. Yeah. I love that 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:56.760 she refers to herself as a U haul lesbian and 0:07:56.920 --> 0:08:00.600 the first twenty minutes of the movie she is a genius, 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:03.320 you hauled lesbian And at no point do you doubt 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:05.960 that she's a genius. Like that I think is something 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:09.960 that's very well portrayed. And so when you see the 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:13.320 kind of ways that she is abusive, manipulative, not in 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:16.800 the right mind taking advantage of like her cloud and power, 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:19.600 Like she's a woman who is obsessed with power, you 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:22.200 as an audience member might find yourself for giving her 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:25.640 because she is so brilliant. Um. And I think that 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:29.720 what I loved about the entirety of her kind of cancelation, 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:33.080 because this character is essentially canceled for we still find 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:35.960 out she she too. Um. When you walk away from 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:39.000 the movie, depending on who you are, you're going to 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:41.960 have a very different assessment of whether you think Lydia 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:46.000 tar got what she deserved or not right. And the 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:48.880 reason I didn't like the ending is because I felt 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:52.640 that it had an opinion on the fate of Lydia 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:54.480 Tar and I didn't. And what do you think that 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:57.280 opinion is? I felt the opinion was that she got 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:02.880 what she deserved, and I was kind of like, I mean, yes, sure, 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:06.200 but I also was kind of like the whole movie 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:08.480 was presenting the truth and then all of a sudden, 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:12.760 I got this kind of very ham fisted like and 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:15.880 then she's got this chicken shit gig at the end, 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:18.000 you know what I mean, Like, and I was like, 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:20.600 I don't know about this, and I also like didn't 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:23.920 like that it was like a like a sci fi 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:27.960 like immersive experience and like him, So that was so 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:31.800 perfect though, because it shows how far she's fallen. And 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:35.280 I do still think it is. I like what you're 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:37.960 saying about how the movie tries to provide this objective 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:41.240 truth about her life and about what happens. And I 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:44.920 do think that happens at the ending. I think maybe 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:48.840 what it does more than provide a judgment, is it 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:52.439 kind of tricks you a little bit because it shows 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:55.200 that even though this woman has lost everything and is 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:59.880 that her rock bottom. She still is so full of 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:04.600 herself and still so believes her own mythology that she's 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:08.640 treating this chicken ship gig like she is still you know, 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:13.400 doing the best work of her life. And it's only 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:17.080 that one second at the ending when you realize how 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:21.520 far she's fallen. And I just fucking loved that. Yeah, 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:24.640 I didn't know. The thing is like part of me 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:31.680 was rooting for Lydia. I was like, maybe part of 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:33.640 me was rooting for Lydia a little bit. How fucked 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:35.439 up is that? But I think even though she drove 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:41.160 a woman to suicide, oh my god. Um, but that's 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:43.400 the thing. It does make you root for Lydia like 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:47.240 it is her movie, it's you. And that is I 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:51.040 think why it's so masterful is you know from the 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:54.480 beginning that this is a bad person, and yet you 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:57.240 are still right there with her throughout the whole movie, 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:00.520 and it you know, we there. There is this whole 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:04.480 genre today of you know, like the good for her movie, 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:08.520 the you know, women doing bad things, complicated female characters, 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:13.920 and this I definitely think is part of the you know, 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:17.480 the canon of that. But it it complicates it because 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:20.240 this is not a woman doing a bad thing too, 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:24.800 people who deserve it. It's just a woman doing bad things, 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:28.560 and yet we still love her. And I think, like, 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:32.000 I think that's probably part of the reason why she 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:34.480 was queer. Like, obviously her queerness is a function of 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:37.840 the way that she's been able to enact harm. But 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:41.200 I think introducing her as a lesbian so early in 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:44.360 the film, like you know, a coastal elite liberal audience 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:46.560 is like, yes, oh my god, like a movie about 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:50.040 a lesbian. We love her. And then like she's fucking 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:54.280 Harvey Weinstein. Yeah, the well, she's not Harvey Weinstein, right, 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:59.240 not Harvey Weinstein, but she she is someone who had us, 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:02.680 who's had a lifetime of like manipulative behavior and then 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:09.120 one infraction that we've seen that is absolutely damning, right, 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:12.040 And I think that that is like kind of what 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:16.599 I'm getting at is that, um, I would have I 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:20.679 wish that there was an ending that was like more complicated, 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:24.679 right where she maybe had a victory and also a 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:28.200 failure or something. Honestly, because I liked the movie so 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:30.559 much and I felt so not okay about the ending. 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:34.480 I'm just being kind of esoteric and fanny about what 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:36.840 I wanted to see about the film, but like, I 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:39.840 think that's something okay. I wanted to see her strap 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:44.120 because you know, a better a longer sex scene would 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:46.520 have been nice. I will say, virgins. If you're going 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:50.800 to go see this movie, I would advocate for you 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:54.679 to one note that it is really funny. Like the 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:58.360 audience at BAM wanted this to be, you know, a 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:01.320 fucking serious movie, and no one would laugh at the jokes. 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:03.000 There was one other faggot on the other end of 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:04.680 the theater that was like laughing at like you know 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:08.080 e good or like hello, I am Petra's father. I 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:11.360 was like, genius, Like there's so many lives. Was such 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:16.200 an incredible scene, incredible scene. Um, but I don't know. Um. 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:18.760 The only other part that I didn't like, Literally, the 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:20.880 only other thing that I didn't like about the movie 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:25.920 was this lecture hall scene where her student says, as 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:31.559 a BIPOC pan gender. I was like, girl, like, the 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:37.480 whole movie is so real. This you don't you don't 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:41.040 think that's real. There's no one in their right mind 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:47.000 who would say as a BIPOC pan gender because it 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:51.040 is one like no person of color says like bipoc 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:55.280 like that outside of like a like corporate setting in 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:58.800 my opinion, And also it's an incorrect use of the 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:03.000 word pan gender because pan gender is like they nownified it. 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:05.800 So I was just like, because the script was so 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.800 real and they were such real characters, that was a 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:11.440 moment where I was like, there's a very easy way 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:14.520 to paint a character that like doesn't really know what 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:17.760 they're talking about in a space of social justice, but 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:20.880 bipack pan gender just felt like. That was another moment 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:23.840 where I was like, this script has an opinion on 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:27.880 this person. I get that the language is clunky, but 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:34.040 that scene felt incredibly real. The scene is incredible. If 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:37.400 the scene is incredible, and even with the sort of 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:42.440 clunkiness of the language, that just felt very truthful to me. 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:45.920 I agree the of the way that some people do 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:51.040 weaponize their marginalized identity. Oh yeah, like, oh yeah, everything 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:54.680 about I have to clarify. Everything about the scene worked 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:56.720 for me, with the exception of that line, like, I 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:01.040 really like the movie is a ten of ten for me, 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:04.280 and my notes are on the ending and that one line. 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:07.280 Really I also was thinking a lot about how there's 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:11.920 that movie she said coming out that's like literally about 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:15.240 Harvey Weinstein and the way that the story was broken, 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:21.280 and it stars Carrie Mulligan, and it just looks so 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:24.400 like it's such an I roll, like it's going to 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:27.120 be very um that movie that came out a couple 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:29.800 of years ago that was about Megan Kelly um and 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.960 it just made me think of where now this award 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:35.560 season going to have these two films that are both 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:39.720 dealing with the idea of me too and like cancel culture. 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:43.000 And one of them tar did it in this very 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:45.720 artful way that was very much a character story, and 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:47.160 the other one is going to do it in this 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:51.400 very obvious way that is very you know, like sensationalist. 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:55.960 And I will just always want the art. I will 0:15:56.000 --> 0:16:01.920 always want the character. And I think this deep portrait 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:09.760 of this very flawed, abusive woman is so much more 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:13.520 illustrative of what's wrong in our culture than I think 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:16.000 this Like, I mean, obviously I haven't seen it, but 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:20.600 this bombastic, like you know, ripped from the headlines like 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:25.680 self righteous movie could ever be right because those movies 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:30.120 have like a kind of right and wrong dichotomy, with 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:33.640 like clear lines on who the film is rooting for. 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:36.400 And I just think that there should be more movies 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:42.040 like Tar that are not trying to force you to 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:46.400 root for a specific side. And I went like, as 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:48.160 I said at the beginning, I walked out of this 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:51.360 film and I didn't love how I felt, and I 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:54.520 part of what I was processing was I thought that 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.080 the movie was very muddled in what it was trying 0:16:57.160 --> 0:16:58.360 to say. I was like, I don't really get what 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:00.320 it's trying to say about cancel culture. And because cancel 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:02.280 culture is such a hot button issue, of course, I 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:04.920 was like trying so hard to examine it. And then 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:07.920 a day later I was like, oh, no, no, like 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:11.280 it's not trying to say anything like it's that is 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:15.040 why it's so good, Like it actually is is presenting 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:20.000 to you a situation and letting you decide how you 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:23.080 feel about it. Um And I think that more films 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:26.760 should do that, especially with something like cancel culture that 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:29.760 is so flattened in every other area of our lives 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:32.520 that we consume it. Yeah, and told this story and 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:36.719 was still a beautiful movie. Yes. I loved how bleak 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:40.560 and colorless it was. It was so berlin. It reminded 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:42.520 me a lot of Suspiria, which I just did my 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:45.080 annual rewatch of I do think they exist in the 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:49.200 same cinematic universe. Um, the music was incredible, Like as 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:53.040 someone who sometimes dabbles a little bit in in classical music, 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:58.240 like I just I really appreciated it. Um and lyditar. 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:14.760 I hope she's on my Spotify wrapped this year. Speaking 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:17.440 of music, I finally listened to an album today that 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.520 you had told me that you've been listening to and 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:25.040 really loved, which was Willows new album, And I know 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:29.480 you were excited to talk about it, Um, and I 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:34.080 really enjoyed it. Let me tell you, I enjoyed the 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:38.600 New Willow album more than Carly Ray and Taylor combines. 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:42.159 Like obviously they're presenting very different things and shouldn't be compared, 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:45.359 but like I'm just saying, that's how much I loved 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:48.880 this album because Taylor and Carly like are my queens. 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:52.920 This is essentially I don't know how you would describe 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:54.520 it risk, but I would. I would call it a 0:18:54.600 --> 0:19:00.000 kind of like punk maybe like emo metal revivalist album. 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:03.160 It has all of those elements that also at times 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:08.360 is a little bit industrial. There's some new wave influence 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:11.359 on it, but she's still all those things. But she 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:17.119 still has really sweet, really um like smooth at times, 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:21.159 r and b at times, pop vocals that elevated and 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:26.080 pay homage to her references like you know, the paramours 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:31.240 and the machinery Avril Levine's you know to me, like 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:33.840 I remember when we first talked about the Olivial old 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:36.840 Rigo album, you know, a year ago, I said that 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:40.840 my favorite songs were the songs like Brutal and good 0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:44.119 for You that went all the way in the Avril 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:46.800 Levine territory and committed to it, and that I wish 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:49.320 the rest of the album was like that. To me, 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:54.280 this album did what I esoteric Lee wanted Olivia Rodrigo 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:58.880 to do and loved Demi Lovado for like giving homage 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:00.600 to that moment or like other people that have been 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:04.400 trying to do like the kind of punk revival thing, 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:08.200 but this was it for me. It is so pretty 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:12.679 well because I think Willow goes even further than you know, 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:18.560 the people that were referencing as sort of the punk revival, 0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:23.240 Like she's not even really referencing Avril Levine. She's referencing 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:27.040 the people that Avril Levine and Paramore were referencing. She's 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:30.920 going she's going directly to the source. She's drinking straight 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:36.720 from the top. This is punk filtered through pop in 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:39.760 a real way, and not this sort of like double 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:43.159 re blog that we're seeing a lot of the girlies 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:47.399 doing nowadays. That's such a good point. And also, like 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:49.720 on top of that, I do believe Willow has been 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:52.760 dabbling and making punk music for a while, like I 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:56.760 think she's she's released like punk tracks before, maybe even 0:20:56.760 --> 0:21:01.280 Olivia Rodrigo did, But this is her first like album 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:04.760 dedicated to a genre of music that she clearly has 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:08.879 so much respect for. And I think that it was 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:11.800 the respect that I that I heard. I heard like 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:15.919 so much love and adoration for a genre that to 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:20.040 me hasn't been around for a while, you know, and 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:25.200 it's it's so well crafted. The production is really amazing. 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:29.840 I love the way that her vocals are layered and distorted, 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:33.639 and just the like wall of sound that exists on 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:36.639 a lot of the songs UM. Some of the standouts 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:39.800 for me were Split, which was probably my favorite song 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:43.440 on the album, UM perfectly not Close to Me, which 0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:46.639 has Eve's tumor on it um, which was great, and 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:49.280 that was a little technoi, a little housey. Yeah, it's 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:52.240 a little it's a little industrial, which I love. Um 0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:57.080 and then hover like a goddess. Great. So it did 0:21:57.119 --> 0:22:02.160 also remind me um of Halsey's album that she put 0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:04.960 out last year, which was one of my favorites. Um, 0:22:05.040 --> 0:22:07.560 If I can't If I can't have Love, I Want Power, 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:15.240 which I really enjoyed. Yeah. I've been really surprised by 0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:18.679 Willow you know so much over the past couple of years. 0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:21.840 I think she's making really good music, working with the 0:22:21.920 --> 0:22:25.640 right people, you know, has the right references, has this 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:30.000 prolific output of music, and I think it's really cool 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:33.680 that she can be an artist who has a song 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:35.520 go viral in the way that Meet Me at Our 0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:38.880 Spot did, and like be at the forefront of culture 0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:41.919 in that way. But like still like really double down 0:22:42.200 --> 0:22:45.119 on making the kind of music that she wants to 0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:49.560 make exactly. And like I also, as someone who's been 0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:51.720 listening to Willow for a while, I think this is 0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:55.639 her first like no Skips album, like uh they or 0:22:55.720 --> 0:22:57.840 rather for me like I thought it was no Skips. 0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:00.439 I loved all of the tracks that you did. I 0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:05.800 also loved Curious Slash Furious. I love the last song 0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:09.359 bat shit, Like it reminded me a little bit obviously 0:23:09.800 --> 0:23:12.720 completely different, but like it did remind me of Sleigh 0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:17.119 Bells too, in that the balance of metal with like 0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:23.560 really sweet vocal vocals and really gorgeous distortion championing you know, 0:23:23.640 --> 0:23:27.439 a woman's voice on the track, and I just like 0:23:27.560 --> 0:23:33.200 want more like this. I'm just I really like that 0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:37.879 we're hearing artists like Willow and even Taylor on Midnight's 0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:41.359 emote in their music. Like that's one of the things 0:23:41.359 --> 0:23:44.760 that I love about, you know, rock and punk music 0:23:45.040 --> 0:23:48.479 is you know, when the sound becomes a scream, and 0:23:48.520 --> 0:23:51.240 Willow really wails on some of these songs, and those 0:23:51.240 --> 0:23:53.200 are some of the parts of Midnights that I liked 0:23:53.240 --> 0:23:55.960 the most, is when you could hear the pain and 0:23:56.000 --> 0:23:58.640 Taylor's voice, like on what have could have should have said, 0:23:59.440 --> 0:24:03.240 give me back my girlhood? It was mine first. That's 0:24:04.359 --> 0:24:08.520 really effective in music when you can hear the emotion 0:24:08.680 --> 0:24:11.520 rather than just you know, having to parse it yourself 0:24:11.560 --> 0:24:14.679 from a lyric, the emotional cual. I thought Willow did 0:24:14.720 --> 0:24:16.800 that so well. It brings it all the way home, 0:24:17.000 --> 0:24:19.440 and I honestly feel like it's not getting it's do 0:24:19.680 --> 0:24:22.439 like everyone should be listening to and talking about this 0:24:22.440 --> 0:24:26.720 fucking album. It's so good. Um, maybe an album that 0:24:26.840 --> 0:24:29.920 does not have as much of an emotional quality. Did 0:24:29.920 --> 0:24:32.040 you did you listen to the new Carle Raight album 0:24:32.080 --> 0:24:35.040 by chance? I did. I've listened to it once, kind 0:24:35.080 --> 0:24:39.360 of in the background while I was reading. I haven't 0:24:39.400 --> 0:24:45.399 given it a closer listen. It's you know, Carly is 0:24:45.480 --> 0:24:50.440 kind of still making the same music. I could recognize 0:24:50.480 --> 0:24:52.399