Speaker 1: Why has Better help so obsessed with us because they
Speaker 1: know that we and all of our listeners are deeply
Speaker 1: unhinged virgins. I'm sure all of you are very upset
Speaker 1: that this is the first time you're hearing us this week,
Speaker 1: because you have been enjoying our bonus episodes all October long.
Speaker 1: But I have to say, I'm so fucking happy Halloween
Speaker 1: is over. Well, I mean, we're actually coming to from
Speaker 1: the past. We are recording this pond actual Halloween. But girl,
Speaker 1: this year it really really dragged. You know, as someone
Speaker 1: who claims to be a Halloween queen, as this is
Speaker 1: your favorite holiday, I believe I never said that. I
Speaker 1: definitely think you've said that before. And I'm a spooky girl.
Speaker 1: I'm not in a necessarily the Halloween devotee. All that
Speaker 1: is to say, you're being a real Halloween grinch right now.
Speaker 1: You are just Mount Crumpet. Well, actually, what's the mountain
Speaker 1: in nightming Ri Christmas? That's like the mountain I don't
Speaker 1: think it has a name, just like the curly curly mountain,
Speaker 1: little little hill. No, obviously I love Halloween. It just
Speaker 1: I have to say I was very unimpressed by the
Speaker 1: celebrity Halloween costumes this year, and the person who won
Speaker 1: Halloween in my opinion was Addison Raye. Addison ray doing
Speaker 1: her Lady Gaga Paparazzi VMA's look like I was gagged.
Speaker 1: I do kind of unfortunately agree that was a winner costume.
Speaker 1: But all that is to say, Halloween is over now
Speaker 1: and we are entering the holidays. You did you did?
Speaker 1: You just like flip a switch and now, like Mariah Carry,
Speaker 1: Christmas is playing or maybe probably Kelly Clarkson knowing you
Speaker 1: you do? You know me? Well? I like first thing
Speaker 1: tomorrow I will be listening to Kelly Clarkson's Christmas out them.
Speaker 1: Although you know what, maybe I should take some learnings
Speaker 1: from Halloween and pace myself. But it's fine because I'm
Speaker 1: going to be very busy over the next couple of weeks. Anyway.
Speaker 1: I am about to start moving back to New York.
Speaker 1: I um have a new apartment here. I'm flying back
Speaker 1: to l A tomorrow to start packing up my stuff,
Speaker 1: and I'll be back here in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: So I'm just gonna let the chips fall where they
Speaker 1: may when it comes to holiday stuff. Although I will
Speaker 1: be getting a Christmas tree this year a big old
Speaker 1: Christmas tree. Okay, yes, we um we you know, we've
Speaker 1: been out and about, We've had COVID, we've had depressive episodes,
Speaker 1: and we realized that there's tons on our backlog of
Speaker 1: what we've been watching, reading, listening to and uh, we
Speaker 1: decided to devote all of today's episode to the hot
Speaker 1: topics of the last month. Where do we even start?
Speaker 1: This is the like of Virgin October ending summit. Um,
Speaker 1: there has been a lot going on in culture and
Speaker 1: we friend, you and I have not even seen each
Speaker 1: other this month except for once to record an episode
Speaker 1: um that will be coming next week on Indie Sleeves,
Speaker 1: so you all should be very excited about that. And
Speaker 1: then there was the time that you brought me soup
Speaker 1: when I was sick, but I only talked to you
Speaker 1: through the door each other. Now is finally the time
Speaker 1: to come together talk about the things that all the
Speaker 1: girlies are talking about. I think I would say top
Speaker 1: of my list is we now have both seen Tar,
Speaker 1: and Tar is the name on everybody's lips. It really
Speaker 1: is like and it feels like it's going to be
Speaker 1: an ongoing conversation as we enter Awards season. But damn,
Speaker 1: this movie was good. Rose, Like you primed me. Obviously
Speaker 1: everyone has primed me, but this was like such an
Speaker 1: incredible movie. And you know, it was two and a
Speaker 1: half hours long. I did not pee once. I did
Speaker 1: not have to pe. I was enthralled the whole time.
Speaker 1: I never felt antsy, it did not feel overly long.
Speaker 1: I was enthralled throughout the entirety of it. I want
Speaker 1: to see it again, you know. I didn't want to
Speaker 1: lead with the negative, but I actually will just I'm gonna, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I will, and I'm gonna get it out of
Speaker 1: the way because it's on what you just mentioned. You know,
Speaker 1: the length, to me is a hundred percent earned. But
Speaker 1: I did walk out of this film feeling like there
Speaker 1: were many parts that were undeniably boring because of the
Speaker 1: length of the cuts. I believe the longest scene in
Speaker 1: this movie without a cut is like ten or eleven minutes.
Speaker 1: It's like it's that, um, the scene in the lecture hall,
Speaker 1: no spoilers, that's so incredible, incredible scene. Um. And I
Speaker 1: think when I walked out, I was kind of like
Speaker 1: this movie was like kind of up its own ass
Speaker 1: and like it was like, you know, way too long
Speaker 1: and like these are the I like kind of walked
Speaker 1: out of it feeling like I didn't love the movie,
Speaker 1: and I also don't like the ending. But as I
Speaker 1: sat with it and digested it, um, I think twenty
Speaker 1: four hours later, I was like, wait, Like the mundaneity
Speaker 1: that I was feeling watching some of these scenes was
Speaker 1: actually part of the brilliance because, for example, I guess,
Speaker 1: like I can spoil this the first we were spoiling
Speaker 1: we need everyone, Okay, okay, well it's Phoebe's like, I'm
Speaker 1: going to mute you. I don't want it spoiled. Um.
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, the thing that
Speaker 1: makes this movie brilliant is that it is a perfect
Speaker 1: and very truthful character study. And Lydia Tar is so
Speaker 1: lived in and such a real character that she actually
Speaker 1: by the end of the movie, You're like, this is
Speaker 1: a real woman. This is a real woman. In two
Speaker 1: and I'm going to go, like, consume more Lydiatar. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I truly believe that she exists in the world.
Speaker 1: Like I would go to Spotify and type in lydiatar
Speaker 1: expecting to find her entire discography. I'm really surprised you
Speaker 1: didn't like the ending because I loved the ending. I
Speaker 1: walked out of the theater cackling because the ending was
Speaker 1: just so abrupt and hilarious and perfect. Okay, well, I
Speaker 1: mean I have nuanced thoughts on it. But the first
Speaker 1: four minutes of the movie is Lydiatar literally at a
Speaker 1: New Yorker talk with Adam Gottnick, which is hilarious. And um,
Speaker 1: it's just him listing off every single one of her
Speaker 1: credits and the camera is not moving. Okay, the credits
Speaker 1: are being listed. I am sitting watching this at bam okay,
Speaker 1: so like it almost feels like I'm at the New
Speaker 1: Yorker talk and and and I would get bored at
Speaker 1: a New Yorker talk. And in the first four minutes
Speaker 1: of the movie, I found myself being like, wait, how
Speaker 1: long is this gonna go? Like wait, really like this
Speaker 1: is like such a lot. I just felt confused. But
Speaker 1: as you realize what the stylings of the movie are
Speaker 1: and how it's it's really trying to create a hyper
Speaker 1: realism that is so pulled off by the brilliance of
Speaker 1: Cape Blanchet, I think that truthfulness and that realness is
Speaker 1: what ended up making me like the movie a lot more. Um,
Speaker 1: But okay, let's talk about the ending. If we're going
Speaker 1: to talk about the ending, I thought that that truthfulness
Speaker 1: presented a very complex villain slash bully like she she's
Speaker 1: basically like a lesbian douchebag, right. Yeah. I love that
Speaker 1: she refers to herself as a U haul lesbian and
Speaker 1: the first twenty minutes of the movie she is a genius,
Speaker 1: you hauled lesbian And at no point do you doubt
Speaker 1: that she's a genius. Like that I think is something
Speaker 1: that's very well portrayed. And so when you see the
Speaker 1: kind of ways that she is abusive, manipulative, not in
Speaker 1: the right mind taking advantage of like her cloud and power,
Speaker 1: Like she's a woman who is obsessed with power, you
Speaker 1: as an audience member might find yourself for giving her
Speaker 1: because she is so brilliant. Um. And I think that
Speaker 1: what I loved about the entirety of her kind of cancelation,
Speaker 1: because this character is essentially canceled for we still find
Speaker 1: out she she too. Um. When you walk away from
Speaker 1: the movie, depending on who you are, you're going to
Speaker 1: have a very different assessment of whether you think Lydia
Speaker 1: tar got what she deserved or not right. And the
Speaker 1: reason I didn't like the ending is because I felt
Speaker 1: that it had an opinion on the fate of Lydia
Speaker 1: Tar and I didn't. And what do you think that
Speaker 1: opinion is? I felt the opinion was that she got
Speaker 1: what she deserved, and I was kind of like, I mean, yes, sure,
Speaker 1: but I also was kind of like the whole movie
Speaker 1: was presenting the truth and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I got this kind of very ham fisted like and
Speaker 1: then she's got this chicken shit gig at the end,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't know about this, and I also like didn't
Speaker 1: like that it was like a like a sci fi
Speaker 1: like immersive experience and like him, So that was so
Speaker 1: perfect though, because it shows how far she's fallen. And
Speaker 1: I do still think it is. I like what you're
Speaker 1: saying about how the movie tries to provide this objective
Speaker 1: truth about her life and about what happens. And I
Speaker 1: do think that happens at the ending. I think maybe
Speaker 1: what it does more than provide a judgment, is it
Speaker 1: kind of tricks you a little bit because it shows
Speaker 1: that even though this woman has lost everything and is
Speaker 1: that her rock bottom. She still is so full of
Speaker 1: herself and still so believes her own mythology that she's
Speaker 1: treating this chicken ship gig like she is still you know,
Speaker 1: doing the best work of her life. And it's only
Speaker 1: that one second at the ending when you realize how
Speaker 1: far she's fallen. And I just fucking loved that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't know. The thing is like part of me
Speaker 1: was rooting for Lydia. I was like, maybe part of
Speaker 1: me was rooting for Lydia a little bit. How fucked
Speaker 1: up is that? But I think even though she drove
Speaker 1: a woman to suicide, oh my god. Um, but that's
Speaker 1: the thing. It does make you root for Lydia like
Speaker 1: it is her movie, it's you. And that is I
Speaker 1: think why it's so masterful is you know from the
Speaker 1: beginning that this is a bad person, and yet you
Speaker 1: are still right there with her throughout the whole movie,
Speaker 1: and it you know, we there. There is this whole
Speaker 1: genre today of you know, like the good for her movie,
Speaker 1: the you know, women doing bad things, complicated female characters,
Speaker 1: and this I definitely think is part of the you know,
Speaker 1: the canon of that. But it it complicates it because
Speaker 1: this is not a woman doing a bad thing too,
Speaker 1: people who deserve it. It's just a woman doing bad things,
Speaker 1: and yet we still love her. And I think, like,
Speaker 1: I think that's probably part of the reason why she
Speaker 1: was queer. Like, obviously her queerness is a function of
Speaker 1: the way that she's been able to enact harm. But
Speaker 1: I think introducing her as a lesbian so early in
Speaker 1: the film, like you know, a coastal elite liberal audience
Speaker 1: is like, yes, oh my god, like a movie about
Speaker 1: a lesbian. We love her. And then like she's fucking
Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein. Yeah, the well, she's not Harvey Weinstein, right,
Speaker 1: not Harvey Weinstein, but she she is someone who had us,
Speaker 1: who's had a lifetime of like manipulative behavior and then
Speaker 1: one infraction that we've seen that is absolutely damning, right,
Speaker 1: And I think that that is like kind of what
Speaker 1: I'm getting at is that, um, I would have I
Speaker 1: wish that there was an ending that was like more complicated,
Speaker 1: right where she maybe had a victory and also a
Speaker 1: failure or something. Honestly, because I liked the movie so
Speaker 1: much and I felt so not okay about the ending.
Speaker 1: I'm just being kind of esoteric and fanny about what
Speaker 1: I wanted to see about the film, but like, I
Speaker 1: think that's something okay. I wanted to see her strap
Speaker 1: because you know, a better a longer sex scene would
Speaker 1: have been nice. I will say, virgins. If you're going
Speaker 1: to go see this movie, I would advocate for you
Speaker 1: to one note that it is really funny. Like the
Speaker 1: audience at BAM wanted this to be, you know, a
Speaker 1: fucking serious movie, and no one would laugh at the jokes.
Speaker 1: There was one other faggot on the other end of
Speaker 1: the theater that was like laughing at like you know
Speaker 1: e good or like hello, I am Petra's father. I
Speaker 1: was like, genius, Like there's so many lives. Was such
Speaker 1: an incredible scene, incredible scene. Um, but I don't know. Um.
Speaker 1: The only other part that I didn't like, Literally, the
Speaker 1: only other thing that I didn't like about the movie
Speaker 1: was this lecture hall scene where her student says, as
Speaker 1: a BIPOC pan gender. I was like, girl, like, the
Speaker 1: whole movie is so real. This you don't you don't
Speaker 1: think that's real. There's no one in their right mind
Speaker 1: who would say as a BIPOC pan gender because it
Speaker 1: is one like no person of color says like bipoc
Speaker 1: like that outside of like a like corporate setting in
Speaker 1: my opinion, And also it's an incorrect use of the
Speaker 1: word pan gender because pan gender is like they nownified it.
Speaker 1: So I was just like, because the script was so
Speaker 1: real and they were such real characters, that was a
Speaker 1: moment where I was like, there's a very easy way
Speaker 1: to paint a character that like doesn't really know what
Speaker 1: they're talking about in a space of social justice, but
Speaker 1: bipack pan gender just felt like. That was another moment
Speaker 1: where I was like, this script has an opinion on
Speaker 1: this person. I get that the language is clunky, but
Speaker 1: that scene felt incredibly real. The scene is incredible. If
Speaker 1: the scene is incredible, and even with the sort of
Speaker 1: clunkiness of the language, that just felt very truthful to me.
Speaker 1: I agree the of the way that some people do
Speaker 1: weaponize their marginalized identity. Oh yeah, like, oh yeah, everything
Speaker 1: about I have to clarify. Everything about the scene worked
Speaker 1: for me, with the exception of that line, like, I
Speaker 1: really like the movie is a ten of ten for me,
Speaker 1: and my notes are on the ending and that one line.
Speaker 1: Really I also was thinking a lot about how there's
Speaker 1: that movie she said coming out that's like literally about
Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein and the way that the story was broken,
Speaker 1: and it stars Carrie Mulligan, and it just looks so
Speaker 1: like it's such an I roll, like it's going to
Speaker 1: be very um that movie that came out a couple
Speaker 1: of years ago that was about Megan Kelly um and
Speaker 1: it just made me think of where now this award
Speaker 1: season going to have these two films that are both
Speaker 1: dealing with the idea of me too and like cancel culture.
Speaker 1: And one of them tar did it in this very
Speaker 1: artful way that was very much a character story, and
Speaker 1: the other one is going to do it in this
Speaker 1: very obvious way that is very you know, like sensationalist.
Speaker 1: And I will just always want the art. I will
Speaker 1: always want the character. And I think this deep portrait
Speaker 1: of this very flawed, abusive woman is so much more
Speaker 1: illustrative of what's wrong in our culture than I think
Speaker 1: this Like, I mean, obviously I haven't seen it, but
Speaker 1: this bombastic, like you know, ripped from the headlines like
Speaker 1: self righteous movie could ever be right because those movies
Speaker 1: have like a kind of right and wrong dichotomy, with
Speaker 1: like clear lines on who the film is rooting for.
Speaker 1: And I just think that there should be more movies
Speaker 1: like Tar that are not trying to force you to
Speaker 1: root for a specific side. And I went like, as
Speaker 1: I said at the beginning, I walked out of this
Speaker 1: film and I didn't love how I felt, and I
Speaker 1: part of what I was processing was I thought that
Speaker 1: the movie was very muddled in what it was trying
Speaker 1: to say. I was like, I don't really get what
Speaker 1: it's trying to say about cancel culture. And because cancel
Speaker 1: culture is such a hot button issue, of course, I
Speaker 1: was like trying so hard to examine it. And then
Speaker 1: a day later I was like, oh, no, no, like
Speaker 1: it's not trying to say anything like it's that is
Speaker 1: why it's so good, Like it actually is is presenting
Speaker 1: to you a situation and letting you decide how you
Speaker 1: feel about it. Um And I think that more films
Speaker 1: should do that, especially with something like cancel culture that
Speaker 1: is so flattened in every other area of our lives
Speaker 1: that we consume it. Yeah, and told this story and
Speaker 1: was still a beautiful movie. Yes. I loved how bleak
Speaker 1: and colorless it was. It was so berlin. It reminded
Speaker 1: me a lot of Suspiria, which I just did my
Speaker 1: annual rewatch of I do think they exist in the
Speaker 1: same cinematic universe. Um, the music was incredible, Like as
Speaker 1: someone who sometimes dabbles a little bit in in classical music,
Speaker 1: like I just I really appreciated it. Um and lyditar.
Speaker 1: I hope she's on my Spotify wrapped this year. Speaking
Speaker 1: of music, I finally listened to an album today that
Speaker 1: you had told me that you've been listening to and
Speaker 1: really loved, which was Willows new album, And I know
Speaker 1: you were excited to talk about it, Um, and I
Speaker 1: really enjoyed it. Let me tell you, I enjoyed the
Speaker 1: New Willow album more than Carly Ray and Taylor combines.
Speaker 1: Like obviously they're presenting very different things and shouldn't be compared,
Speaker 1: but like I'm just saying, that's how much I loved
Speaker 1: this album because Taylor and Carly like are my queens.
Speaker 1: This is essentially I don't know how you would describe
Speaker 1: it risk, but I would. I would call it a
Speaker 1: kind of like punk maybe like emo metal revivalist album.
Speaker 1: It has all of those elements that also at times
Speaker 1: is a little bit industrial. There's some new wave influence
Speaker 1: on it, but she's still all those things. But she
Speaker 1: still has really sweet, really um like smooth at times,
Speaker 1: r and b at times, pop vocals that elevated and
Speaker 1: pay homage to her references like you know, the paramours
Speaker 1: and the machinery Avril Levine's you know to me, like
Speaker 1: I remember when we first talked about the Olivial old
Speaker 1: Rigo album, you know, a year ago, I said that
Speaker 1: my favorite songs were the songs like Brutal and good
Speaker 1: for You that went all the way in the Avril
Speaker 1: Levine territory and committed to it, and that I wish
Speaker 1: the rest of the album was like that. To me,
Speaker 1: this album did what I esoteric Lee wanted Olivia Rodrigo
Speaker 1: to do and loved Demi Lovado for like giving homage
Speaker 1: to that moment or like other people that have been
Speaker 1: trying to do like the kind of punk revival thing,
Speaker 1: but this was it for me. It is so pretty
Speaker 1: well because I think Willow goes even further than you know,
Speaker 1: the people that were referencing as sort of the punk revival,
Speaker 1: Like she's not even really referencing Avril Levine. She's referencing
Speaker 1: the people that Avril Levine and Paramore were referencing. She's
Speaker 1: going she's going directly to the source. She's drinking straight
Speaker 1: from the top. This is punk filtered through pop in
Speaker 1: a real way, and not this sort of like double
Speaker 1: re blog that we're seeing a lot of the girlies
Speaker 1: doing nowadays. That's such a good point. And also, like
Speaker 1: on top of that, I do believe Willow has been
Speaker 1: dabbling and making punk music for a while, like I
Speaker 1: think she's she's released like punk tracks before, maybe even
Speaker 1: Olivia Rodrigo did, But this is her first like album
Speaker 1: dedicated to a genre of music that she clearly has
Speaker 1: so much respect for. And I think that it was
Speaker 1: the respect that I that I heard. I heard like
Speaker 1: so much love and adoration for a genre that to
Speaker 1: me hasn't been around for a while, you know, and
Speaker 1: it's it's so well crafted. The production is really amazing.
Speaker 1: I love the way that her vocals are layered and distorted,
Speaker 1: and just the like wall of sound that exists on
Speaker 1: a lot of the songs UM. Some of the standouts
Speaker 1: for me were Split, which was probably my favorite song
Speaker 1: on the album, UM perfectly not Close to Me, which
Speaker 1: has Eve's tumor on it um, which was great, and
Speaker 1: that was a little technoi, a little housey. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a little it's a little industrial, which I love. Um
Speaker 1: and then hover like a goddess. Great. So it did
Speaker 1: also remind me um of Halsey's album that she put
Speaker 1: out last year, which was one of my favorites. Um,
Speaker 1: If I can't If I can't have Love, I Want Power,
Speaker 1: which I really enjoyed. Yeah. I've been really surprised by
Speaker 1: Willow you know so much over the past couple of years.
Speaker 1: I think she's making really good music, working with the
Speaker 1: right people, you know, has the right references, has this
Speaker 1: prolific output of music, and I think it's really cool
Speaker 1: that she can be an artist who has a song
Speaker 1: go viral in the way that Meet Me at Our
Speaker 1: Spot did, and like be at the forefront of culture
Speaker 1: in that way. But like still like really double down
Speaker 1: on making the kind of music that she wants to
Speaker 1: make exactly. And like I also, as someone who's been
Speaker 1: listening to Willow for a while, I think this is
Speaker 1: her first like no Skips album, like uh they or
Speaker 1: rather for me like I thought it was no Skips.
Speaker 1: I loved all of the tracks that you did. I
Speaker 1: also loved Curious Slash Furious. I love the last song
Speaker 1: bat shit, Like it reminded me a little bit obviously
Speaker 1: completely different, but like it did remind me of Sleigh
Speaker 1: Bells too, in that the balance of metal with like
Speaker 1: really sweet vocal vocals and really gorgeous distortion championing you know,
Speaker 1: a woman's voice on the track, and I just like
Speaker 1: want more like this. I'm just I really like that
Speaker 1: we're hearing artists like Willow and even Taylor on Midnight's
Speaker 1: emote in their music. Like that's one of the things
Speaker 1: that I love about, you know, rock and punk music
Speaker 1: is you know, when the sound becomes a scream, and
Speaker 1: Willow really wails on some of these songs, and those
Speaker 1: are some of the parts of Midnights that I liked
Speaker 1: the most, is when you could hear the pain and
Speaker 1: Taylor's voice, like on what have could have should have said,
Speaker 1: give me back my girlhood? It was mine first. That's
Speaker 1: really effective in music when you can hear the emotion
Speaker 1: rather than just you know, having to parse it yourself
Speaker 1: from a lyric, the emotional cual. I thought Willow did
Speaker 1: that so well. It brings it all the way home,
Speaker 1: and I honestly feel like it's not getting it's do
Speaker 1: like everyone should be listening to and talking about this
Speaker 1: fucking album. It's so good. Um, maybe an album that
Speaker 1: does not have as much of an emotional quality. Did
Speaker 1: you did you listen to the new Carle Raight album
Speaker 1: by chance? I did. I've listened to it once, kind
Speaker 1: of in the background while I was reading. I haven't
Speaker 1: given it a closer listen. It's you know, Carly is
Speaker 1: kind of still making the same music. I could recognize
Speaker 1: that there were a couple of songs that I listened
Speaker 1: to that I liked more than others, But it just
Speaker 1: I just didn't feel moved to listen again. And I'm
Speaker 1: sure it will be something that is on the rotation
Speaker 1: of things that I put on in the background, But
Speaker 1: and you know, not not to start with the negatives.
Speaker 1: And like, I love Carly, I love emotion. I even
Speaker 1: really like a lot of dedicated but Carly just kind
Speaker 1: of makes the same song over and over again. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm feeling the repetitiveness too. And the thing about emotion,
Speaker 1: and part of the reason it was so sublime was
Speaker 1: because before that moment, Carly was just the call me
Speaker 1: maybe girl right, she was making trash music, well trash
Speaker 1: according to some music that felt like Disney Channel esque, right,
Speaker 1: and then she was like, let me tap all of
Speaker 1: these exquisite producers, all these producers that I admire, and
Speaker 1: see what they can do with my sound. And as
Speaker 1: a songwriter, I think that's like an incredible thing for
Speaker 1: her to do. And so Emotion felt like such a
Speaker 1: triumph because it was such an elevation of what Carly
Speaker 1: was able to give. And these other two albums feel
Speaker 1: like kind of like Midnights as well. Uh, the B
Speaker 1: sides of the B sides right like, these were like
Speaker 1: Sea sides to me, and like Carly and Taylor share
Speaker 1: the proliferation component, right Like. I think she wrote like
Speaker 1: two songs for emotion, like she kind of always she
Speaker 1: is very Dolly esque, um, and I think that that
Speaker 1: can be a wonderful thing. But also part of the
Speaker 1: weakness here is that there's too much material and not
Speaker 1: enough focus on defining what exactly these songs want to say.
Speaker 1: And I I just I want her to give me
Speaker 1: what I want. I love the Rufus Waynewright song though,
Speaker 1: But the thing is, I don't even really know what
Speaker 1: I want from Carly because I think the problem is
Speaker 1: that at the end of the day, I do want
Speaker 1: more emotion, and she keeps trying to replicate it, so like,
Speaker 1: in a way, she's giving me what I want. It's
Speaker 1: just not really working because I already got the best
Speaker 1: of it. My theory, my theory on that, honestly, is like,
Speaker 1: so Carly does have a really emotional quality to her voice, yes,
Speaker 1: but she her voice is still very thin, right, She's
Speaker 1: not a vocalist. She can't do what a tailor can
Speaker 1: do or what a willow can do. I mean those
Speaker 1: I'm only mentioned this because they're the last two people
Speaker 1: that we talked about. They're not really in any sort
Speaker 1: of category, but just because they're the conversations of what
Speaker 1: we're talking about. I'm just like, her voice is just thin.
Speaker 1: It doesn't have that magnanimousness. And when you if you
Speaker 1: ever see her perform on stage, she just kind of
Speaker 1: like jumps around and it's like, cool, we love you.
Speaker 1: But like I was like, you know what, I like,
Speaker 1: listen to this album and I was like, you know
Speaker 1: what it is, Carly doesn't have a personality, and she
Speaker 1: doesn't have a personality or an aesthetic or anything. And
Speaker 1: because we there, we don't have the complete package of
Speaker 1: who she is. As a pop star. We as audiences
Speaker 1: aren't able to place her, aren't able to place her
Speaker 1: or and we're not able to plant meaning, more meaning,
Speaker 1: and more personableness and relatableness into her music because we
Speaker 1: don't really know that much about her. Um And I
Speaker 1: don't know that's not really that's kind of I feel
Speaker 1: kind of mean saying that, But I do feel like
Speaker 1: it's a management issue. Like you and I don't remember
Speaker 1: where we were, but like we were like in an
Speaker 1: uber or something, and you were like, if you could
Speaker 1: manage like one, you know, one person, and if you
Speaker 1: could creative direct one celebrity, someone who really needs to
Speaker 1: get it together. I mean, Carle maybe would be that girl,
Speaker 1: because she makes really good music. And I just don't
Speaker 1: think that she showed us a point of view behind
Speaker 1: this kind of like I'm an awkward, lonely, little weird
Speaker 1: girl and I fall in love sometimes too, and I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: Even Emotion, which is one of the best pop albums
Speaker 1: of this millennium, has no aesthetic, has no good music videos.
Speaker 1: The album cover is stupid. It just happens to have
Speaker 1: incredible music on it, hedible music. UM So I want
Speaker 1: the world I want her to world build, and I
Speaker 1: hope that the next you know, album cycle is that
Speaker 1: for her. Let's talk about interview with the Vampire. UM.
Speaker 1: Did you watch this week's episode? I actually didn't finish. UM.
Speaker 1: I want to hear what you think so far, and
Speaker 1: then I'll kind of go into how I was digesting
Speaker 1: this last episode. I love it. It's my favorite show
Speaker 1: on TV. And now the House of the Dragon is over. Um.
Speaker 1: Next week is the season finale, and I like, literally
Speaker 1: don't know what I'm gonna do with my life without it.
Speaker 1: I just keep being impressed with the way it is
Speaker 1: adapting the source material and the choices it's making, and
Speaker 1: how it is reinterpreting the original story and preserving the
Speaker 1: things that work and changing the things that don't and
Speaker 1: re contextualizing things like I as hard as it is
Speaker 1: to watch, I think giving Lestat and Louise relationship the
Speaker 1: proper context of a truly abusive relationship works really well
Speaker 1: because it's not something that's ever been explored with this
Speaker 1: kind of depth before, and it is hard to watch it,
Speaker 1: you know, Like this week's episode was really hard to
Speaker 1: watch Louis go back to his abuser, but it felt
Speaker 1: very It felt very real to me, and it's something
Speaker 1: that has like long gone unsaid in the way that
Speaker 1: their relationship has been talked about, Like, yes, people always
Speaker 1: say that they're toxic, but it's abusive, and it it
Speaker 1: does I think what fantasy should do, which is like
Speaker 1: take a real life dynamic and exaggerated through the lens
Speaker 1: of fiction, because if you had an abusive partner who
Speaker 1: had superpowers, this shows us what might happen in the circumstances.
Speaker 1: I also really love this depiction of Claudia and I
Speaker 1: Claudia has always been my favorite character and interview with
Speaker 1: the vampire Um, and I think the choice to make
Speaker 1: her a teenager is so interesting because yes, there is
Speaker 1: so much tragedy in Claudia being a woman trapped in
Speaker 1: a child's body, and that is tragic. But I think
Speaker 1: making her a teenager so she knows she's missing out
Speaker 1: on she is on the cusp of womanhood, she can
Speaker 1: have those experiences and be even further away from them
Speaker 1: is so it is such an emotional gut punch, and
Speaker 1: it doesn't I'm not saying it's better than the original,
Speaker 1: but it's and it's incredibly satisfying in its you know,
Speaker 1: um like devastation, UM take on that character and just
Speaker 1: it makes sense. This reboot makes sense, like there is
Speaker 1: a reason to be retelling the story in a new way.
Speaker 1: And that's what I love so much about this version
Speaker 1: of it is that it truly is adapting and updating
Speaker 1: and playing with the source material in a way that
Speaker 1: makes it more relevant to the time that it's speaking
Speaker 1: to and the time that it's being consumed in. The
Speaker 1: reboot really does justify itself, like this material needed further
Speaker 1: exploration and adapting. And I also much prefer the way
Speaker 1: this Claudia is written, um as much as I love
Speaker 1: Kiki uh I, I think for me, what I realized
Speaker 1: UM watching this most recent half of this most recent
Speaker 1: episode was that, um My, the fact that I don't
Speaker 1: have an attachment to the source material is part of
Speaker 1: the reason I am falling off a little bit. And
Speaker 1: I think that if I was invested from square one
Speaker 1: in the original story, which I don't really know anything about.
Speaker 1: I did not google the full plot of the o
Speaker 1: G interview with the Vampire, right like I didn't read
Speaker 1: the full plot Summer. I only know the basics, so
Speaker 1: I don't know as much about what's been changed and
Speaker 1: what hasn't. So you describing that like and placings like
Speaker 1: some of these things that have been changed, actually makes
Speaker 1: me appreciate it even more. I think that just the
Speaker 1: bones of the plot art not mighty like and I
Speaker 1: and that's not, you know, the moved that the show's fault, right, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't think fatherhood is an interesting theme in anything,
Speaker 1: Like I don't want to watch things about fatherhood. I
Speaker 1: don't want to watch things really about children. I think
Speaker 1: this Claudia, as you said, is amazing, and I do
Speaker 1: like the teen The teendom of her is is definitely compelling,
Speaker 1: and this actress is really compelling. Um but I Listat
Speaker 1: is so irredeemably abusive. I I just wish that he was.
Speaker 1: I wish there was a little more subtlety on him
Speaker 1: and a little less subtlety on Louis, because Louis to
Speaker 1: me a lot I feel like a lot of time,
Speaker 1: not all the time, obviously, but a lot of times
Speaker 1: things are just happening to him, Like I wish that
Speaker 1: he made more choices in the show instead of being
Speaker 1: so beholden to List's ongoing abuse manipulation twists and turns,
Speaker 1: and with LISTA. I wish that he I'm I'm okay
Speaker 1: with all of the things that you know, all the
Speaker 1: way all the ways that he's abusing Louis, Like, yes,
Speaker 1: that's like a real person. But I just like wish
Speaker 1: that there was a little more restraint on how insidious
Speaker 1: and how a moral he is, Like I wanted, I
Speaker 1: want redemption from him beyond how hot he is. And
Speaker 1: for me, the only thing that redeems him is how
Speaker 1: hot and romantic he is, and I don't know that
Speaker 1: and that would be enough for me if there was
Speaker 1: more subtlety to his character. You know, I see what
Speaker 1: you're saying. I think it's interesting that you say that
Speaker 1: Louis doesn't make choices when I actually think he makes
Speaker 1: a lot of choices. No, I said he makes he
Speaker 1: doesn't make as many choices as I would like. I
Speaker 1: didn't say he makes zero choices. Yeah, because I do
Speaker 1: think Louis is a character who's driven by the choices
Speaker 1: he makes. I mean, his choice not to drink human
Speaker 1: blood is what defines him and is the big, the
Speaker 1: huge schism um in his relationship with Lestat and even
Speaker 1: with Claudia Um and then with the Listat of it all,
Speaker 1: I get what you're saying, I actually don't. I actually
Speaker 1: prefer him as a character who can't be redeemed because
Speaker 1: you know what this season is all building towards and
Speaker 1: like the spoiler alert, but like this isn't a spoiler um.
Speaker 1: You know, in the finale, um is leading to Claudia's
Speaker 1: attempt to kill Lestat, And I actually think the way
Speaker 1: that Lestat is being depicted and his abuse of louis
Speaker 1: so much more gives gives such a clearer reasoning for
Speaker 1: Claudia to want to kill him, because in the novel
Speaker 1: and in film, you know, were led to understand that
Speaker 1: Claudie wants to kill him because Lestat is a liar
Speaker 1: and because he won't tell them about the you know,
Speaker 1: their origins and other vampires, and because he kind of
Speaker 1: sees them as his playthings rather than they truly need
Speaker 1: to escape him and he won't allow them to. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's this devastating scene at the end of the most
Speaker 1: recent episode that I guess you didn't see, where Claudia
Speaker 1: is trying to know She's like going off on her
Speaker 1: own to get away, and Lestat tracks her down and says,
Speaker 1: like you can't have your own life because I need
Speaker 1: you here to make Louis happy and like it. How
Speaker 1: how much of a monster listat is justifies the fact
Speaker 1: that they're going to attempt to murder him, and you
Speaker 1: know these things are all happening for a reason. Um.
Speaker 1: There was also a reveal about rashid Um at the
Speaker 1: end of this week's episode that was, um, he's louise
Speaker 1: Like personal assistant. Oh oh right, right, the one that
Speaker 1: he like also sucks on, yes, um, And it's I
Speaker 1: don't know where they're going with it. There's a lot,
Speaker 1: There's plenty of theories, and people who know more about
Speaker 1: the an Rice universe might have better ideas about it.
Speaker 1: But I just am so enthralled by this show. I'm
Speaker 1: so happy that you know, it was renewed for a
Speaker 1: second season before the first season even started, so we're
Speaker 1: getting more. There's also, um, the Mayfair Witches series that begins,
Speaker 1: I believe in January. So they are building out this
Speaker 1: immortal universe with all the different and Rice properties, and
Speaker 1: I'm just very excited to see where we go from here.
Speaker 1: And I have been reading with that Louis fan fiction.
Speaker 1: No surprises there, Um, will you be watching a Bobby
Speaker 1: kind of Volley fan fiction after consuming The Watcher on Netflix. No,
Speaker 1: but I did. I was, so, I've only watched like
Speaker 1: four or five episodes of The Watcher. I've been watching
Speaker 1: it with Ryan. Can I can I not watching more
Speaker 1: than four or five episodes? Um, but I did. I
Speaker 1: did ask Ryan, Um, because we both think Bobby kind
Speaker 1: of all it is really sexy. I asked Ryan if
Speaker 1: he would murder rose Burne if he got to suck
Speaker 1: off Bobby kind of all a and he said yes
Speaker 1: without hesitation. I said, but what if Spy two was
Speaker 1: already in pre production? And then he said no, because
Speaker 1: we couldn't. We couldn't keep Rose burn from being in
Speaker 1: Spy Too. No, we need Spy to. We need Spy To. Um.
Speaker 1: What else? What other impressions you have on like the
Speaker 1: series in gen I mean, it's so it's on to me,
Speaker 1: Like having finished it, I feel like it's so um
Speaker 1: not good. Um. Yeah, I don't know that I'm going
Speaker 1: to finish it. I don't know if I'm going to
Speaker 1: watch it outside of the context of watching it with
Speaker 1: Ryan and kind of like giggling through it. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: I did read the New York Magazine article that it's
Speaker 1: based off of because I kind of wanted the real
Speaker 1: life context of it, and also I wanted to spoil
Speaker 1: myself and see how it was going to end. Um
Speaker 1: And what I found very frustrating is that the mystery
Speaker 1: is unsolved. Um so I do. I mean, we don't
Speaker 1: have to necessarily spoil it for the virgins, you don't
Speaker 1: have to get into specifics. But it is a limited series.
Speaker 1: Is there a definitive ending? Is the Watcher unveiled? No
Speaker 1: that I don't like. Sorry, Yeah, it is such a
Speaker 1: it makes you It makes the whole show feel like
Speaker 1: such a colossal waste of time because it's not even
Speaker 1: very well written. Like to me, Ryan Murphy saw White
Speaker 1: Lotus and was like, there is an American horror story
Speaker 1: version of this, and that's why he started to work
Speaker 1: on The Watcher. He probably also watched you know, The
Speaker 1: Undoing or you know, Fucking the Staircase or something like that, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's there. There's a clear um context that that
Speaker 1: the show is sitting within there, there is a trend
Speaker 1: that it is that it is hopping on for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So to me that the show is very watchable, like
Speaker 1: no pun int um and that, but that is because
Speaker 1: of I think the casting is amazing, Like Bobby kind
Speaker 1: of Vale, Margot Martindale, Jennifer Coolidge is really good. Mia
Speaker 1: Faroh when was the last time, you know, we got
Speaker 1: to see herself which also Nomadumezwenny was Hermione and Harry
Speaker 1: Potter and the Curse Child. Yes, and she is to
Speaker 1: me the best character in the undoing as well. Um.
Speaker 1: I what I like about the show is that I
Speaker 1: think it um is a really good depiction of uh,
Speaker 1: you know this modern you know, American horror, which is
Speaker 1: the horror of living outside your means and what that
Speaker 1: can lead to. Because you know, we see this family,
Speaker 1: you know, buying this house that they can't afford and
Speaker 1: then they're stuck there, I mean to be fair, that
Speaker 1: also literally is the plot of American Horror story season
Speaker 1: one Murder House, Like they're living in a haunted house
Speaker 1: so they can't afford to move out of. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: the casting is amazing. Um. I think casting me a
Speaker 1: pharaoh is genius because of the Rosemary's Baby of it all,
Speaker 1: because you know, this is essentially the plot of Rosemary's Baby.
Speaker 1: Um it is I've never seen it. Oh yeah, Rosemary's
Speaker 1: Baby is about you know, this woman who you know,
Speaker 1: moves into an apartment with her husband and they have
Speaker 1: all these creepy neighbors and their secret passages and like people.
Speaker 1: I mean, like that is like literally Satan Nick and
Speaker 1: like she's im like raped and like impregnated with the Antichrist.
Speaker 1: But it's like very obvious why she was cast because
Speaker 1: of all those parallels. And I think in the couple
Speaker 1: episodes that I've watched, I think she's criminally under used. Yes,
Speaker 1: and also like she deserves a show that's better written
Speaker 1: than this. I'm sorry, Like I know Ryan Murphy can
Speaker 1: kind of get whoever he wants, but like Mia Farrow
Speaker 1: is so she needs to do more things. And I
Speaker 1: don't know this was I don't understand why the their
Speaker 1: bed is in the middle of their bedroom. It was
Speaker 1: so confusing to me. Also, Nami Watts never wears the
Speaker 1: same thing twice. She has so many fucking chunky, you know,
Speaker 1: alpaca sweaters and like duster coats, and I mean, she
Speaker 1: looks great. Can you explain I want her entire wardrobe?
Speaker 1: Can you explain to me why girls why the girls
Speaker 1: love Naomi Watts? Like I don't really, I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't know any I've only seen her in King Kong
Speaker 1: and I think that's it. Uh. She is sort of
Speaker 1: she's blonde, she's blonde, she's she's like she's like in
Speaker 1: a cool kidman variant. She you know. I think they
Speaker 1: came up around similar times, and Naomi Watts has she's
Speaker 1: kind of one of the if you know, you know
Speaker 1: girls actually who Weekly talked about her recently because they
Speaker 1: were talking about the watch her and like they understand
Speaker 1: celebrity culture in a way that I never will. So
Speaker 1: I would definitely suggest like listening to their take on
Speaker 1: the Naomi Wats of it all. I think she's just
Speaker 1: a very good actress. She's a pretty white, blonde woman.
Speaker 1: She was in the Ring. It is kind of crazy
Speaker 1: that the Ring is the thing that she's the most
Speaker 1: famous for, like on a on a sort of mainstream
Speaker 1: mass appeal level. I've seen The Ring and I did
Speaker 1: not know she was in that. But that wasn't like
Speaker 1: in high school, so I'll forgive myself for that. I
Speaker 1: want to chew Bobby Kinnavali's eyebrows off his face in
Speaker 1: a sexual way. He is so that sounds hard I
Speaker 1: mean he and he's also an incredible actor. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: a great actor. I saw him. He and Rose Byrne,
Speaker 1: who is his wife. They did a production of Media
Speaker 1: at BAM a couple of years ago where they played
Speaker 1: the main characters and it was so good and like
Speaker 1: they were so amazing on stage together. One of the
Speaker 1: things that they didn't understand. Okay, so the episode where
Speaker 1: the daughter like goes live on TikTok and and and
Speaker 1: you know, spins this conflict that's happening between her father
Speaker 1: and her boyfriend into like into her father being racist.
Speaker 1: Is she an influencer? Like why did why did it
Speaker 1: go viral? Why does his assistant come in and with
Speaker 1: the phone? Like is this your daughter? Like what you
Speaker 1: don't get? Though I don't she's not an influencer. I
Speaker 1: think it just went viral. Like I think she went
Speaker 1: viral as an army, which like nobody writes I've I've actually,
Speaker 1: I have yet to see a piction of someone going
Speaker 1: viral that I felt was like effective or like added
Speaker 1: to the story. Like I I'm trying, I mean maybe
Speaker 1: that I don't know, I'm trying to think of others,
Speaker 1: but like I just like it's It's just a lot
Speaker 1: of times when things are written like that, I'm like,
Speaker 1: this is something, this is written by someone who doesn't
Speaker 1: use social media, Like I just I don't get it. Um,
Speaker 1: But but I that on top of that, to your point,
Speaker 1: like that is like one of like many many inconsistencies
Speaker 1: in how the plot unfolds. And something that's amazing is that, um,
Speaker 1: the casting is great and everyone is a suspect. So
Speaker 1: that does create a very playful and fun viewing experience
Speaker 1: where you're trying to figure out who it is. Yes,
Speaker 1: every time a new character is introduced, I'm like, yep,
Speaker 1: they're in on it. She's in on it, he's in
Speaker 1: on it. Yes, And I think that's great. It's just, um,
Speaker 1: it's infuriating that there's there's no there's no reveal. I yeah,
Speaker 1: I was. I was reading that New York Magazine article like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is so long. I can't wait
Speaker 1: of the end when they reveal who it is, and
Speaker 1: then there's no reveal. The show also fabricates like a
Speaker 1: large majority of the things that happened in the actual show,
Speaker 1: which is fine. I'm fine with that, but it must
Speaker 1: be said, Yeah, I mean based on the article that
Speaker 1: I read. Really, the only thing that happened was the letters.
Speaker 1: The letters, That's the entirety of what happened to them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of Google Okay. So now I think
Speaker 1: it's kind of the part where to two roads diverge
Speaker 1: and we're maybe going to talk about some things that
Speaker 1: we've each been consuming on our own. Um, I've seen
Speaker 1: some theater recently that we just would like to to
Speaker 1: talk about briefly. I did mention that I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: that I got COVID at Hadestown, which I saw a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago. Um, I I thought Hadestown sucked
Speaker 1: so much, and it has been such a cultural phenomenon
Speaker 1: over the past couple of years. It's like one of
Speaker 1: those pieces of theater that has really crossed over into
Speaker 1: the mainstream. And like I understand why that is, because
Speaker 1: because it is kind of the show that tricks normal
Speaker 1: people into thinking that they're watching something really deep and
Speaker 1: it just isn't. Like I did not feel anything while
Speaker 1: watching it there. I did not feel a single emotion.
Speaker 1: And it's such a failure for anyone who doesn't know
Speaker 1: Hadestown is about, you know, the myth of Orpheus and
Speaker 1: eurityosy Um. But also it kind of isn't it you know,
Speaker 1: places the myth in this sort of like steam punk
Speaker 1: like nineteen twenties esque context. It's like post industrial um,
Speaker 1: and it almost like can't decide if it wants to
Speaker 1: be literally about the myth of Orpheus and Euridicy and
Speaker 1: you know, Haiti isn't Persephone and these mythological characters, or
Speaker 1: if it wants to be this like you know, like
Speaker 1: work shoppy ass like tumbler musical. It's so tumbler. All
Speaker 1: the music was very forgettable. I just like really did
Speaker 1: not enjoy it. UM do not recommend UM. And then
Speaker 1: last week I saw Weathering Heights at St. Anne's Warehouse UM,
Speaker 1: which had kind of similar vibes, like very deconstructed UM.
Speaker 1: So it's like, what are you saying. It's like Vaudavillian,
Speaker 1: Like you can see the pieces of the theater and
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's it's like black box theater. It's
Speaker 1: like yeah, like you know, there's like a door that's
Speaker 1: rolled on stage, and you know there's like puppets and um.
Speaker 1: All of the chorus members play multiple characters or like
Speaker 1: the same actor plays a father and a son at
Speaker 1: different points in their lives. Um The main issue with
Speaker 1: it is that it fails that the basic responsibility of
Speaker 1: what a musical is supposed to do. In musicals, characters
Speaker 1: sing because they feel an emotion so deeply that they
Speaker 1: can no longer say it, they have to sing it,
Speaker 1: and this show does not do that. M Rice, who
Speaker 1: adapted Weathering Heights into this production and directed it, was
Speaker 1: clearly very passionate about maintaining Bronte's words. But I think
Speaker 1: it's too faithful of an adaptation because the characters speak
Speaker 1: lines of dialogue lifted directly from the novel, but they
Speaker 1: speak them and then a scene later they sing a
Speaker 1: song that has nothing to you with what they were
Speaker 1: just talking about, Like when Kathy says, I am Heathcliff.
Speaker 1: This like iconic line of dialogue. That is one of
Speaker 1: the best ways in literature anyone has ever written. You know,
Speaker 1: the idea of a loving someone so much that you
Speaker 1: feel like you are them. It is so integral to
Speaker 1: your character. That should have been a song I Am
Speaker 1: Heathcliff should have been sung, and instead she says it,
Speaker 1: and then a scene later she picks up a microphone
Speaker 1: like she's in Spring Awakening and sings a rock song
Speaker 1: that has nothing to do with anything she's been saying
Speaker 1: and just feels like someone wrote a play, and then
Speaker 1: at the end they were like, oh, let's put music
Speaker 1: in it. That's such a missed opportunity, because like with
Speaker 1: with both Wuthering Heights and with Um you know Orpheus
Speaker 1: and your writtasy, like these are too, those are these
Speaker 1: are tragic stories, and with Rvous and your writticcy, there's
Speaker 1: so much room to play with nailing down and describing
Speaker 1: what that tragedy feels like. And similarly with Wuthering Heights,
Speaker 1: it's like, even though you know, Bronte has so much
Speaker 1: on the page that we can read like that is
Speaker 1: a moment where it's like it's a song and damn,
Speaker 1: that's that's really disappointing. Yeah, and it just made me
Speaker 1: wish it had been a Kate Bush jukebox musical. I
Speaker 1: don't know why it wasn't Um. Also, it did remind
Speaker 1: me a lot of the sort of deconstructed nous and
Speaker 1: like workshopp nous of. It reminded me a lot of
Speaker 1: the ocean at the end of the Lane, which is
Speaker 1: a play based on a novel by Neil Gaiman that
Speaker 1: has sort of a similar staging and also uses music,
Speaker 1: but uses music, you know in scene changes, like also
Speaker 1: kind of in the way that Harry Potter and the
Speaker 1: Chris Child does you Know image And he wrote this
Speaker 1: entire score for that show and it uses music without
Speaker 1: calling itself a musical. And I think this show would
Speaker 1: have been much better if it had done that. And
Speaker 1: I still really like the staging. Um. The second act
Speaker 1: was much better than the first act. The first the
Speaker 1: show is three hours, and the first act felt like
Speaker 1: it was three hours long because the first act ends
Speaker 1: with Cathy dying, and it's like, okay, well, if you
Speaker 1: decide that that's how the first act ends, it's up
Speaker 1: to you to edit things out so that you're not
Speaker 1: just like going through the story up until that point
Speaker 1: and it feeling like a hundred years long. But I
Speaker 1: still enjoyed myself. I had a good time. It was
Speaker 1: nice to be at the THEATA. I love I love
Speaker 1: a term you've coined, which is work shoppy. That is
Speaker 1: such a good way to describe a lot of things,
Speaker 1: especially on the stage. Like I would much prefer something
Speaker 1: that feels work shoppy, unfinished or imperfect, like doesn't quite
Speaker 1: say what it wants to say, but at least it
Speaker 1: tries over something that you know, tried too hard to
Speaker 1: be perfect and polished and ultimately didn't try anything. You know,
Speaker 1: but like this sounds like it wasn't very successful and
Speaker 1: so they made a lot of choices. They're just very
Speaker 1: A lot of them were wrong. A lot of them
Speaker 1: were wrong. What have you been engaging in that I
Speaker 1: have not been privy too well. I am watching this
Speaker 1: current season of Great British Baking Show and I don't
Speaker 1: have much to report on because it's not a short,
Speaker 1: it's not a show really to report on. UM, but
Speaker 1: they had this for the very first time, they had
Speaker 1: Mexico Week, which really was incredible. It exceeded all of
Speaker 1: my expectations and was such an exceptional episode of like
Speaker 1: reality TV. And you know, anyone that's on Twitter saw
Speaker 1: the clips that were you know, out there, UM this
Speaker 1: amazing contestant calling guacamole glocky molo. I felt like joy filled,
Speaker 1: filling to the brim of my heart watching a bunch
Speaker 1: of white people and non Latin people attempt to understand
Speaker 1: Mexican cuisine. Um. Cultural appropriation is good again, That's what
Speaker 1: I'm trying to say. We we as a society need
Speaker 1: to create more things wherein white people are struggling to
Speaker 1: master the thing the things that don't belong to them, right,
Speaker 1: this is one of those I think there I don't.
Speaker 1: I didn't really see any very serious discourse about it,
Speaker 1: but I know that there are people out there that
Speaker 1: are like, canceled to Mexico Week, How dare You a
Speaker 1: great British baking show? And I was like, actually, like
Speaker 1: the show was very aware of what it was doing
Speaker 1: and flexed on what it's good at, which is kind
Speaker 1: of portraying lovable and income poops. Like like really like
Speaker 1: that that's, at the end of the day, what it was.
Speaker 1: And I really love they really and income poop is
Speaker 1: the is the word. Um. I will say just on
Speaker 1: a hold that the contestants where we're at now, I
Speaker 1: really hope that Maxi is the winner and that she
Speaker 1: beats out Yanush, who is kind of the judge's favorite
Speaker 1: and the one that's most technically perfect. There's always one
Speaker 1: guy that's like a robotically technically a perfect baker, and
Speaker 1: it's so soulless and yet he wins every challenge and
Speaker 1: I don't want it to be him. But there's this
Speaker 1: man on the show that is also going to be
Speaker 1: in the top three in my opinion, name Sandro. You've
Speaker 1: seen pictures of Sandra, haven't you? I have not? Oh
Speaker 1: my god, wait, I actually we need the live react
Speaker 1: right now of Rose seeing images of Sandra from Great British.
Speaker 1: And to be clear, I will watch the show over
Speaker 1: the past couple of years, I've watched every season. I
Speaker 1: just prefer to watch it all at once and and
Speaker 1: not week to week. Um. Oh wow, he is so
Speaker 1: fucking fine. And he's also huge. Oh my god, he's
Speaker 1: a huge man, and he's an exquisite sexy baker. His
Speaker 1: hand his hands look very large, so large. Anyways, we're
Speaker 1: rooting for you, Sandrow. Um okay, what else have I
Speaker 1: paid consuming? Oh oh okay, this is good, A good
Speaker 1: call back to our Stephen King episode. I finally watched
Speaker 1: Carrie the original. Yes, the non Chloe Grace Mourettes carry,
Speaker 1: the only carry, the only carry I recognize. Yes. Um,
Speaker 1: I want to say, you know, on top of our
Speaker 1: conversation in that episode that we failed to talk about
Speaker 1: how John Travolta is in this movie what I had,
Speaker 1: and it's very sexy. Young John Travolta was really hot.
Speaker 1: And also don't don't cancel me, but John Travolta since
Speaker 1: he shaved his head is hot again. Oh my god, Rose,
Speaker 1: that's so bad. He is literally it is what it is.
Speaker 1: He is one of the most powerful people in the
Speaker 1: Scientology church. Like he has ascended to a tear of Scientology.
Speaker 1: He has a title I can't remember what, but he
Speaker 1: got the funk up. He has a title I can't
Speaker 1: remember the titleist, but the clearance that he has in
Speaker 1: the yeah yeah, dick sucker in chief. Um, he has
Speaker 1: clearance in Scientology that is so powerful that he is
Speaker 1: allowed to kill, Like he can kill someone and Scientology
Speaker 1: allows it as a like within the architecture of their
Speaker 1: belief systems. Well, maybe I need to think more about
Speaker 1: George Um which also like listen watching Carry, I was like, wait,
Speaker 1: was John Travolta's like last like like meaningful appearance in
Speaker 1: Hollywood Hairspray. I I literally like we could pull up
Speaker 1: the IMDb that is like it is actually incredible that
Speaker 1: his his his final most like known performance in the
Speaker 1: Eons of a career that someone as legendary as John
Speaker 1: Tribolda has had was dressing up as it was hairspray,
Speaker 1: and then it was adult dosime and oh right, adult desime.
Speaker 1: He has contributed so much, he is he is a king.
Speaker 1: It's true. It's true. Um. But anyways, on the carry
Speaker 1: of it all, the thing that I just wanted to
Speaker 1: say on top of our conversation is that it's so deranged,
Speaker 1: like the way the movie is directed, but not just
Speaker 1: like in a horrific way, Like the way the movie
Speaker 1: is directed is so bizarre, and every single fever dream yes,
Speaker 1: And and the way I would describe it is like
Speaker 1: every single character feels like they are a woman on
Speaker 1: the verge of a nervous breakdown, right, Like every single
Speaker 1: character is at the absolute max some them of what
Speaker 1: they can handle at the beginning of every scene, and
Speaker 1: one single stimuli puts them over the edge. Like everyone
Speaker 1: in this movie, not just Carry, not just her mom.
Speaker 1: Everyone is hysterical, like in hysterics. And I thought that
Speaker 1: that was such a funny lens on um the story
Speaker 1: as a whole. I think there's something kind of Stephen
Speaker 1: Kingy about that, Like I think that his characters are really, um,
Speaker 1: extremely melodramatic. I don't even know if melodrama is the word.
Speaker 1: It's obviously um camp in a lot of ways in
Speaker 1: its purest form, but like I was so engaged from
Speaker 1: the jump by how wild and weird this movie is, like, Um,
Speaker 1: I don't know that I agree that Carry is camp.
Speaker 1: Maybe Piper Laurie a little bit. No, it's definitely. I
Speaker 1: think if you rewatch it, I mean, like fucking I
Speaker 1: have watched it, watched it many times, you're gonna tell
Speaker 1: me that Carries Mom in her nightgown holding the knife
Speaker 1: up and smiling like like crazy is like not to
Speaker 1: some extent like camp, like I also honestly even in
Speaker 1: the beginning, like um, Sissy SpaceX, like first like seven
Speaker 1: minutes of dialogue, it's just like her wailing, like she
Speaker 1: has no line. She goes like something something truly horrifying
Speaker 1: that's happening to her and she thinks she's dying, right,
Speaker 1: but like truly post verbal, like no real words like I.
Speaker 1: And that's like kind of what I'm alluding to, Like
Speaker 1: there's there. It's funny how emphatic every character was directed
Speaker 1: to be and how I don't know I thought. I
Speaker 1: just thought that that's something that made the movie so
Speaker 1: much weirder and more interesting. Um to watch, and I
Speaker 1: really appreciated it visually as well. Um, so it's a
Speaker 1: beautiful film, great movie to re visit. You saw Halloween Ends.
Speaker 1: I did. I did watch Halloween Ends on Peacock. I
Speaker 1: very fran tried watching Halloween Kills. Halloween Kills is disgusting, horrible.
Speaker 1: I started. I watched I should you not at least
Speaker 1: twenty minutes of it, but before realizing that there was
Speaker 1: a movie that came before this movie that I did
Speaker 1: not watch. Um, yeah, it's it seemed really bad and boring.
Speaker 1: But um, Kyle Richard's love, Oh Kyle was so good
Speaker 1: in Halloween Kills. She was the best part of the movie.
Speaker 1: Very underused in Halloween Ends. You know, a lot of
Speaker 1: people really don't seem to like it. I think it's
Speaker 1: it's a very quiet way to end this forty five
Speaker 1: year franchise and story. But I thought it did some
Speaker 1: interesting things with the way it carried on the idea
Speaker 1: of Michael Myers as this sort of spiritual evil that
Speaker 1: has haunted Laurie Strode her entire life, and in Halloween Ends,
Speaker 1: there is a character who sort of takes up Michael's legacy,
Speaker 1: and you see how a normal person, through a series
Speaker 1: of really tragic circumstances, could become a killer. Um, which
Speaker 1: I thought was interesting and I liked that it is
Speaker 1: a definitive ending to Laurie's story to Michael Myers. And
Speaker 1: it's certainly not a perfect film, and I'm glad I
Speaker 1: watched it on Peacock rather than seeing it in theaters. Um,
Speaker 1: because it's it's a movie that you know, you look
Speaker 1: at your phone during is what you're saying, Oh, totally
Speaker 1: totally spoiler alert. How did they? How did die? Jamie?
Speaker 1: The Curtis kills him, and then um, to make sure
Speaker 1: that he is dead once and for all, they string
Speaker 1: him up on a car, and the whole town sort
Speaker 1: of like gathers and they parade through the streets and
Speaker 1: they take him to like the Junkyard and put him
Speaker 1: through an industrial grinder while everyone watches. That's great, yeah, um,
Speaker 1: And the whole movie is sort of about how, you know,
Speaker 1: you're understanding how the town hates Laurie Strode because this
Speaker 1: very personal, you know, battle she's having with Michael Myers
Speaker 1: has really impacted all of them, and so it is
Speaker 1: very cathartic that they all get to watch him die.
Speaker 1: Speaking of movies, I don't want to talk about it
Speaker 1: this week because I really want to wait to have
Speaker 1: this conversation until you've seen it. But I saw My
Speaker 1: Policeman in theaters and really, actually surprisingly liked it, and
Speaker 1: so we will talk about it. I want you to
Speaker 1: see it. It also doesn't come out on Amazon, I
Speaker 1: think until this Friday, So Virgins, if you want to
Speaker 1: watch it and here our takes, watch it and we'll
Speaker 1: talk about it next week. I'm I'm probably gonna like
Speaker 1: it too. I'm a little bit of a higher I
Speaker 1: think you will. And it has problems, that has flaws,
Speaker 1: but I really liked it despite the splaws. I think
Speaker 1: it's a lovely film that is very well acted and
Speaker 1: well made. Damn Okay, we'll talk about it next week.
Speaker 1: We'll be back with an episode all about Indie Slee's
Speaker 1: so um you know. Dig into your tumbler archives, break
Speaker 1: out your American apparel v neck check to see which
Speaker 1: book items are from the Urban outfit our skift table.
Speaker 1: In the meantime, you can connect with us on Instagram
Speaker 1: at like a Virgin, Um, did we miss anything you
Speaker 1: wanted us to talk about this week? Are you happy
Speaker 1: Halloween's over? You're looking forward to the holidays? Let us know,
Speaker 1: and please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It
Speaker 1: helps us so much. I'm your co host, Rose Damn
Speaker 1: You. You You can find me anywhere online at Rose Damn You,
Speaker 1: and I'm friend. You can find me at friends, squish co,
Speaker 1: anywhere you want subscribe to Like a Virgin anywhere you
Speaker 1: listen to podcasts, and please leave us a rating on
Speaker 1: Spotify or review on Apple Podcasts. Like a Virgin is
Speaker 1: an I Heart radio production. Our producer is Phoebe Unter,
Speaker 1: with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Cranechitch and
Speaker 1: Nikki Tour Until next week. Choose, as Lydia Tar would
Speaker 1: say in Berlin, my