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Speaker 1: Why has Better help so obsessed with us because they

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Speaker 1: know that we and all of our listeners are deeply

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Speaker 1: unhinged virgins. I'm sure all of you are very upset

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Speaker 1: that this is the first time you're hearing us this week,

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Speaker 1: because you have been enjoying our bonus episodes all October long.

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Speaker 1: But I have to say, I'm so fucking happy Halloween

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Speaker 1: is over. Well, I mean, we're actually coming to from

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Speaker 1: the past. We are recording this pond actual Halloween. But girl,

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Speaker 1: this year it really really dragged. You know, as someone

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Speaker 1: who claims to be a Halloween queen, as this is

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Speaker 1: your favorite holiday, I believe I never said that. I

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Speaker 1: definitely think you've said that before. And I'm a spooky girl.

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Speaker 1: I'm not in a necessarily the Halloween devotee. All that

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Speaker 1: is to say, you're being a real Halloween grinch right now.

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Speaker 1: You are just Mount Crumpet. Well, actually, what's the mountain

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Speaker 1: in nightming Ri Christmas? That's like the mountain I don't

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Speaker 1: think it has a name, just like the curly curly mountain,

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Speaker 1: little little hill. No, obviously I love Halloween. It just

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Speaker 1: I have to say I was very unimpressed by the

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Speaker 1: celebrity Halloween costumes this year, and the person who won

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Speaker 1: Halloween in my opinion was Addison Raye. Addison ray doing

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Speaker 1: her Lady Gaga Paparazzi VMA's look like I was gagged.

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Speaker 1: I do kind of unfortunately agree that was a winner costume.

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Speaker 1: But all that is to say, Halloween is over now

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Speaker 1: and we are entering the holidays. You did you did?

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Speaker 1: You just like flip a switch and now, like Mariah Carry,

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Speaker 1: Christmas is playing or maybe probably Kelly Clarkson knowing you

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Speaker 1: you do? You know me? Well? I like first thing

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Speaker 1: tomorrow I will be listening to Kelly Clarkson's Christmas out them.

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Speaker 1: Although you know what, maybe I should take some learnings

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Speaker 1: from Halloween and pace myself. But it's fine because I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be very busy over the next couple of weeks. Anyway.

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Speaker 1: I am about to start moving back to New York.

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Speaker 1: I um have a new apartment here. I'm flying back

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Speaker 1: to l A tomorrow to start packing up my stuff,

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Speaker 1: and I'll be back here in a couple of weeks.

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Speaker 1: So I'm just gonna let the chips fall where they

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Speaker 1: may when it comes to holiday stuff. Although I will

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Speaker 1: be getting a Christmas tree this year a big old

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Speaker 1: Christmas tree. Okay, yes, we um we you know, we've

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Speaker 1: been out and about, We've had COVID, we've had depressive episodes,

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Speaker 1: and we realized that there's tons on our backlog of

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Speaker 1: what we've been watching, reading, listening to and uh, we

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Speaker 1: decided to devote all of today's episode to the hot

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Speaker 1: topics of the last month. Where do we even start?

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Speaker 1: This is the like of Virgin October ending summit. Um,

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Speaker 1: there has been a lot going on in culture and

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Speaker 1: we friend, you and I have not even seen each

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Speaker 1: other this month except for once to record an episode

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Speaker 1: um that will be coming next week on Indie Sleeves,

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Speaker 1: so you all should be very excited about that. And

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Speaker 1: then there was the time that you brought me soup

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Speaker 1: when I was sick, but I only talked to you

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Speaker 1: through the door each other. Now is finally the time

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Speaker 1: to come together talk about the things that all the

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Speaker 1: girlies are talking about. I think I would say top

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Speaker 1: of my list is we now have both seen Tar,

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Speaker 1: and Tar is the name on everybody's lips. It really

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Speaker 1: is like and it feels like it's going to be

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Speaker 1: an ongoing conversation as we enter Awards season. But damn,

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Speaker 1: this movie was good. Rose, Like you primed me. Obviously

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Speaker 1: everyone has primed me, but this was like such an

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Speaker 1: incredible movie. And you know, it was two and a

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Speaker 1: half hours long. I did not pee once. I did

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Speaker 1: not have to pe. I was enthralled the whole time.

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Speaker 1: I never felt antsy, it did not feel overly long.

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Speaker 1: I was enthralled throughout the entirety of it. I want

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Speaker 1: to see it again, you know. I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: lead with the negative, but I actually will just I'm gonna, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I will, and I'm gonna get it out of

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Speaker 1: the way because it's on what you just mentioned. You know,

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Speaker 1: the length, to me is a hundred percent earned. But

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Speaker 1: I did walk out of this film feeling like there

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Speaker 1: were many parts that were undeniably boring because of the

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Speaker 1: length of the cuts. I believe the longest scene in

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Speaker 1: this movie without a cut is like ten or eleven minutes.

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Speaker 1: It's like it's that, um, the scene in the lecture hall,

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Speaker 1: no spoilers, that's so incredible, incredible scene. Um. And I

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Speaker 1: think when I walked out, I was kind of like

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Speaker 1: this movie was like kind of up its own ass

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Speaker 1: and like it was like, you know, way too long

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Speaker 1: and like these are the I like kind of walked

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Speaker 1: out of it feeling like I didn't love the movie,

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Speaker 1: and I also don't like the ending. But as I

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Speaker 1: sat with it and digested it, um, I think twenty

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Speaker 1: four hours later, I was like, wait, Like the mundaneity

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Speaker 1: that I was feeling watching some of these scenes was

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Speaker 1: actually part of the brilliance because, for example, I guess,

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Speaker 1: like I can spoil this the first we were spoiling

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Speaker 1: we need everyone, Okay, okay, well it's Phoebe's like, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to mute you. I don't want it spoiled. Um.

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Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, the thing that

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Speaker 1: makes this movie brilliant is that it is a perfect

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Speaker 1: and very truthful character study. And Lydia Tar is so

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Speaker 1: lived in and such a real character that she actually

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Speaker 1: by the end of the movie, You're like, this is

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Speaker 1: a real woman. This is a real woman. In two

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to go, like, consume more Lydiatar. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like I truly believe that she exists in the world.

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Speaker 1: Like I would go to Spotify and type in lydiatar

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Speaker 1: expecting to find her entire discography. I'm really surprised you

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Speaker 1: didn't like the ending because I loved the ending. I

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Speaker 1: walked out of the theater cackling because the ending was

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Speaker 1: just so abrupt and hilarious and perfect. Okay, well, I

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Speaker 1: mean I have nuanced thoughts on it. But the first

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Speaker 1: four minutes of the movie is Lydiatar literally at a

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Speaker 1: New Yorker talk with Adam Gottnick, which is hilarious. And um,

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Speaker 1: it's just him listing off every single one of her

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Speaker 1: credits and the camera is not moving. Okay, the credits

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Speaker 1: are being listed. I am sitting watching this at bam okay,

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Speaker 1: so like it almost feels like I'm at the New

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Speaker 1: Yorker talk and and and I would get bored at

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Speaker 1: a New Yorker talk. And in the first four minutes

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Speaker 1: of the movie, I found myself being like, wait, how

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Speaker 1: long is this gonna go? Like wait, really like this

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Speaker 1: is like such a lot. I just felt confused. But

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Speaker 1: as you realize what the stylings of the movie are

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Speaker 1: and how it's it's really trying to create a hyper

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Speaker 1: realism that is so pulled off by the brilliance of

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Speaker 1: Cape Blanchet, I think that truthfulness and that realness is

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Speaker 1: what ended up making me like the movie a lot more. Um,

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Speaker 1: But okay, let's talk about the ending. If we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about the ending, I thought that that truthfulness

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Speaker 1: presented a very complex villain slash bully like she she's

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Speaker 1: basically like a lesbian douchebag, right. Yeah. I love that

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Speaker 1: she refers to herself as a U haul lesbian and

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Speaker 1: the first twenty minutes of the movie she is a genius,

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Speaker 1: you hauled lesbian And at no point do you doubt

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Speaker 1: that she's a genius. Like that I think is something

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Speaker 1: that's very well portrayed. And so when you see the

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Speaker 1: kind of ways that she is abusive, manipulative, not in

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Speaker 1: the right mind taking advantage of like her cloud and power,

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Speaker 1: Like she's a woman who is obsessed with power, you

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Speaker 1: as an audience member might find yourself for giving her

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Speaker 1: because she is so brilliant. Um. And I think that

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Speaker 1: what I loved about the entirety of her kind of cancelation,

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Speaker 1: because this character is essentially canceled for we still find

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Speaker 1: out she she too. Um. When you walk away from

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Speaker 1: the movie, depending on who you are, you're going to

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Speaker 1: have a very different assessment of whether you think Lydia

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Speaker 1: tar got what she deserved or not right. And the

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Speaker 1: reason I didn't like the ending is because I felt

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Speaker 1: that it had an opinion on the fate of Lydia

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Speaker 1: Tar and I didn't. And what do you think that

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Speaker 1: opinion is? I felt the opinion was that she got

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Speaker 1: what she deserved, and I was kind of like, I mean, yes, sure,

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Speaker 1: but I also was kind of like the whole movie

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Speaker 1: was presenting the truth and then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: I got this kind of very ham fisted like and

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Speaker 1: then she's got this chicken shit gig at the end,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know about this, and I also like didn't

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Speaker 1: like that it was like a like a sci fi

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Speaker 1: like immersive experience and like him, So that was so

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Speaker 1: perfect though, because it shows how far she's fallen. And

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Speaker 1: I do still think it is. I like what you're

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Speaker 1: saying about how the movie tries to provide this objective

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Speaker 1: truth about her life and about what happens. And I

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Speaker 1: do think that happens at the ending. I think maybe

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Speaker 1: what it does more than provide a judgment, is it

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Speaker 1: kind of tricks you a little bit because it shows

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Speaker 1: that even though this woman has lost everything and is

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Speaker 1: that her rock bottom. She still is so full of

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Speaker 1: herself and still so believes her own mythology that she's

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Speaker 1: treating this chicken ship gig like she is still you know,

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Speaker 1: doing the best work of her life. And it's only

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Speaker 1: that one second at the ending when you realize how

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Speaker 1: far she's fallen. And I just fucking loved that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know. The thing is like part of me

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Speaker 1: was rooting for Lydia. I was like, maybe part of

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Speaker 1: me was rooting for Lydia a little bit. How fucked

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Speaker 1: up is that? But I think even though she drove

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Speaker 1: a woman to suicide, oh my god. Um, but that's

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Speaker 1: the thing. It does make you root for Lydia like

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Speaker 1: it is her movie, it's you. And that is I

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Speaker 1: think why it's so masterful is you know from the

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Speaker 1: beginning that this is a bad person, and yet you

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Speaker 1: are still right there with her throughout the whole movie,

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Speaker 1: and it you know, we there. There is this whole

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Speaker 1: genre today of you know, like the good for her movie,

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Speaker 1: the you know, women doing bad things, complicated female characters,

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Speaker 1: and this I definitely think is part of the you know,

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Speaker 1: the canon of that. But it it complicates it because

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Speaker 1: this is not a woman doing a bad thing too,

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Speaker 1: people who deserve it. It's just a woman doing bad things,

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Speaker 1: and yet we still love her. And I think, like,

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Speaker 1: I think that's probably part of the reason why she

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Speaker 1: was queer. Like, obviously her queerness is a function of

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Speaker 1: the way that she's been able to enact harm. But

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Speaker 1: I think introducing her as a lesbian so early in

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Speaker 1: the film, like you know, a coastal elite liberal audience

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Speaker 1: is like, yes, oh my god, like a movie about

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Speaker 1: a lesbian. We love her. And then like she's fucking

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Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein. Yeah, the well, she's not Harvey Weinstein, right,

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Speaker 1: not Harvey Weinstein, but she she is someone who had us,

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Speaker 1: who's had a lifetime of like manipulative behavior and then

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Speaker 1: one infraction that we've seen that is absolutely damning, right,

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Speaker 1: And I think that that is like kind of what

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Speaker 1: I'm getting at is that, um, I would have I

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Speaker 1: wish that there was an ending that was like more complicated,

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Speaker 1: right where she maybe had a victory and also a

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Speaker 1: failure or something. Honestly, because I liked the movie so

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Speaker 1: much and I felt so not okay about the ending.

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Speaker 1: I'm just being kind of esoteric and fanny about what

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Speaker 1: I wanted to see about the film, but like, I

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Speaker 1: think that's something okay. I wanted to see her strap

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Speaker 1: because you know, a better a longer sex scene would

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Speaker 1: have been nice. I will say, virgins. If you're going

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Speaker 1: to go see this movie, I would advocate for you

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Speaker 1: to one note that it is really funny. Like the

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Speaker 1: audience at BAM wanted this to be, you know, a

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Speaker 1: fucking serious movie, and no one would laugh at the jokes.

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Speaker 1: There was one other faggot on the other end of

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Speaker 1: the theater that was like laughing at like you know

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Speaker 1: e good or like hello, I am Petra's father. I

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Speaker 1: was like, genius, Like there's so many lives. Was such

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Speaker 1: an incredible scene, incredible scene. Um, but I don't know. Um.

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Speaker 1: The only other part that I didn't like, Literally, the

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Speaker 1: only other thing that I didn't like about the movie

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Speaker 1: was this lecture hall scene where her student says, as

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Speaker 1: a BIPOC pan gender. I was like, girl, like, the

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Speaker 1: whole movie is so real. This you don't you don't

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Speaker 1: think that's real. There's no one in their right mind

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Speaker 1: who would say as a BIPOC pan gender because it

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Speaker 1: is one like no person of color says like bipoc

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Speaker 1: like that outside of like a like corporate setting in

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Speaker 1: my opinion, And also it's an incorrect use of the

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Speaker 1: word pan gender because pan gender is like they nownified it.

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Speaker 1: So I was just like, because the script was so

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Speaker 1: real and they were such real characters, that was a

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Speaker 1: moment where I was like, there's a very easy way

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Speaker 1: to paint a character that like doesn't really know what

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Speaker 1: they're talking about in a space of social justice, but

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Speaker 1: bipack pan gender just felt like. That was another moment

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Speaker 1: where I was like, this script has an opinion on

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Speaker 1: this person. I get that the language is clunky, but

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Speaker 1: that scene felt incredibly real. The scene is incredible. If

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Speaker 1: the scene is incredible, and even with the sort of

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Speaker 1: clunkiness of the language, that just felt very truthful to me.

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Speaker 1: I agree the of the way that some people do

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Speaker 1: weaponize their marginalized identity. Oh yeah, like, oh yeah, everything

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Speaker 1: about I have to clarify. Everything about the scene worked

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Speaker 1: for me, with the exception of that line, like, I

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Speaker 1: really like the movie is a ten of ten for me,

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Speaker 1: and my notes are on the ending and that one line.

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Speaker 1: Really I also was thinking a lot about how there's

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Speaker 1: that movie she said coming out that's like literally about

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Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein and the way that the story was broken,

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Speaker 1: and it stars Carrie Mulligan, and it just looks so

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Speaker 1: like it's such an I roll, like it's going to

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Speaker 1: be very um that movie that came out a couple

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Speaker 1: of years ago that was about Megan Kelly um and

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Speaker 1: it just made me think of where now this award

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Speaker 1: season going to have these two films that are both

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Speaker 1: dealing with the idea of me too and like cancel culture.

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Speaker 1: And one of them tar did it in this very

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Speaker 1: artful way that was very much a character story, and

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Speaker 1: the other one is going to do it in this

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Speaker 1: very obvious way that is very you know, like sensationalist.

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Speaker 1: And I will just always want the art. I will

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Speaker 1: always want the character. And I think this deep portrait

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Speaker 1: of this very flawed, abusive woman is so much more

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Speaker 1: illustrative of what's wrong in our culture than I think

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Speaker 1: this Like, I mean, obviously I haven't seen it, but

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Speaker 1: this bombastic, like you know, ripped from the headlines like

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Speaker 1: self righteous movie could ever be right because those movies

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Speaker 1: have like a kind of right and wrong dichotomy, with

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Speaker 1: like clear lines on who the film is rooting for.

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Speaker 1: And I just think that there should be more movies

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Speaker 1: like Tar that are not trying to force you to

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Speaker 1: root for a specific side. And I went like, as

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Speaker 1: I said at the beginning, I walked out of this

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Speaker 1: film and I didn't love how I felt, and I

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Speaker 1: part of what I was processing was I thought that

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Speaker 1: the movie was very muddled in what it was trying

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Speaker 1: to say. I was like, I don't really get what

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Speaker 1: it's trying to say about cancel culture. And because cancel

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Speaker 1: culture is such a hot button issue, of course, I

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Speaker 1: was like trying so hard to examine it. And then

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Speaker 1: a day later I was like, oh, no, no, like

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Speaker 1: it's not trying to say anything like it's that is

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Speaker 1: why it's so good, Like it actually is is presenting

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Speaker 1: to you a situation and letting you decide how you

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Speaker 1: feel about it. Um And I think that more films

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Speaker 1: should do that, especially with something like cancel culture that

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Speaker 1: is so flattened in every other area of our lives

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Speaker 1: that we consume it. Yeah, and told this story and

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Speaker 1: was still a beautiful movie. Yes. I loved how bleak

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Speaker 1: and colorless it was. It was so berlin. It reminded

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Speaker 1: me a lot of Suspiria, which I just did my

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Speaker 1: annual rewatch of I do think they exist in the

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Speaker 1: same cinematic universe. Um, the music was incredible, Like as

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Speaker 1: someone who sometimes dabbles a little bit in in classical music,

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Speaker 1: like I just I really appreciated it. Um and lyditar.

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Speaker 1: I hope she's on my Spotify wrapped this year. Speaking

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Speaker 1: of music, I finally listened to an album today that

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Speaker 1: you had told me that you've been listening to and

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Speaker 1: really loved, which was Willows new album, And I know

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Speaker 1: you were excited to talk about it, Um, and I

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Speaker 1: really enjoyed it. Let me tell you, I enjoyed the

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Speaker 1: New Willow album more than Carly Ray and Taylor combines.

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Speaker 1: Like obviously they're presenting very different things and shouldn't be compared,

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Speaker 1: but like I'm just saying, that's how much I loved

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Speaker 1: this album because Taylor and Carly like are my queens.

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Speaker 1: This is essentially I don't know how you would describe

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Speaker 1: it risk, but I would. I would call it a

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Speaker 1: kind of like punk maybe like emo metal revivalist album.

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Speaker 1: It has all of those elements that also at times

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Speaker 1: is a little bit industrial. There's some new wave influence

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Speaker 1: on it, but she's still all those things. But she

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Speaker 1: still has really sweet, really um like smooth at times,

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Speaker 1: r and b at times, pop vocals that elevated and

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Speaker 1: pay homage to her references like you know, the paramours

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Speaker 1: and the machinery Avril Levine's you know to me, like

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Speaker 1: I remember when we first talked about the Olivial old

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Speaker 1: Rigo album, you know, a year ago, I said that

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Speaker 1: my favorite songs were the songs like Brutal and good

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Speaker 1: for You that went all the way in the Avril

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Speaker 1: Levine territory and committed to it, and that I wish

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Speaker 1: the rest of the album was like that. To me,

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Speaker 1: this album did what I esoteric Lee wanted Olivia Rodrigo

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Speaker 1: to do and loved Demi Lovado for like giving homage

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Speaker 1: to that moment or like other people that have been

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Speaker 1: trying to do like the kind of punk revival thing,

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Speaker 1: but this was it for me. It is so pretty

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Speaker 1: well because I think Willow goes even further than you know,

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Speaker 1: the people that were referencing as sort of the punk revival,

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Speaker 1: Like she's not even really referencing Avril Levine. She's referencing

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Speaker 1: the people that Avril Levine and Paramore were referencing. She's

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Speaker 1: going she's going directly to the source. She's drinking straight

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Speaker 1: from the top. This is punk filtered through pop in

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Speaker 1: a real way, and not this sort of like double

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Speaker 1: re blog that we're seeing a lot of the girlies

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Speaker 1: doing nowadays. That's such a good point. And also, like

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Speaker 1: on top of that, I do believe Willow has been

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Speaker 1: dabbling and making punk music for a while, like I

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Speaker 1: think she's she's released like punk tracks before, maybe even

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Speaker 1: Olivia Rodrigo did, But this is her first like album

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Speaker 1: dedicated to a genre of music that she clearly has

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Speaker 1: so much respect for. And I think that it was

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Speaker 1: the respect that I that I heard. I heard like

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Speaker 1: so much love and adoration for a genre that to

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Speaker 1: me hasn't been around for a while, you know, and

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Speaker 1: it's it's so well crafted. The production is really amazing.

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Speaker 1: I love the way that her vocals are layered and distorted,

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Speaker 1: and just the like wall of sound that exists on

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Speaker 1: a lot of the songs UM. Some of the standouts

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Speaker 1: for me were Split, which was probably my favorite song

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Speaker 1: on the album, UM perfectly not Close to Me, which

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Speaker 1: has Eve's tumor on it um, which was great, and

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Speaker 1: that was a little technoi, a little housey. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: a little it's a little industrial, which I love. Um

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Speaker 1: and then hover like a goddess. Great. So it did

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Speaker 1: also remind me um of Halsey's album that she put

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Speaker 1: out last year, which was one of my favorites. Um,

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Speaker 1: If I can't If I can't have Love, I Want Power,

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Speaker 1: which I really enjoyed. Yeah. I've been really surprised by

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Speaker 1: Willow you know so much over the past couple of years.

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00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 1: I think she's making really good music, working with the

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Speaker 1: right people, you know, has the right references, has this

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Speaker 1: prolific output of music, and I think it's really cool

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Speaker 1: that she can be an artist who has a song

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Speaker 1: go viral in the way that Meet Me at Our

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Speaker 1: Spot did, and like be at the forefront of culture

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Speaker 1: in that way. But like still like really double down

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Speaker 1: on making the kind of music that she wants to

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Speaker 1: make exactly. And like I also, as someone who's been

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Speaker 1: listening to Willow for a while, I think this is

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Speaker 1: her first like no Skips album, like uh they or

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Speaker 1: rather for me like I thought it was no Skips.

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Speaker 1: I loved all of the tracks that you did. I

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Speaker 1: also loved Curious Slash Furious. I love the last song

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Speaker 1: bat shit, Like it reminded me a little bit obviously

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Speaker 1: completely different, but like it did remind me of Sleigh

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Speaker 1: Bells too, in that the balance of metal with like

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Speaker 1: really sweet vocal vocals and really gorgeous distortion championing you know,

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Speaker 1: a woman's voice on the track, and I just like

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Speaker 1: want more like this. I'm just I really like that

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Speaker 1: we're hearing artists like Willow and even Taylor on Midnight's

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00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 1: emote in their music. Like that's one of the things

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Speaker 1: that I love about, you know, rock and punk music

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00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,479
Speaker 1: is you know, when the sound becomes a scream, and

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Speaker 1: Willow really wails on some of these songs, and those

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Speaker 1: are some of the parts of Midnights that I liked

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Speaker 1: the most, is when you could hear the pain and

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Speaker 1: Taylor's voice, like on what have could have should have said,

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00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 1: give me back my girlhood? It was mine first. That's

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00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 1: really effective in music when you can hear the emotion

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00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: rather than just you know, having to parse it yourself

390
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,679
Speaker 1: from a lyric, the emotional cual. I thought Willow did

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Speaker 1: that so well. It brings it all the way home,

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00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,440
Speaker 1: and I honestly feel like it's not getting it's do

393
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,439
Speaker 1: like everyone should be listening to and talking about this

394
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 1: fucking album. It's so good. Um, maybe an album that

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Speaker 1: does not have as much of an emotional quality. Did

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Speaker 1: you did you listen to the new Carle Raight album

397
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: by chance? I did. I've listened to it once, kind

398
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:39,360
Speaker 1: of in the background while I was reading. I haven't

399
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 1: given it a closer listen. It's you know, Carly is

400
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 1: kind of still making the same music. I could recognize

401
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,399
Speaker 1: that there were a couple of songs that I listened

402
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 1: to that I liked more than others, But it just

403
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 1: I just didn't feel moved to listen again. And I'm

404
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: sure it will be something that is on the rotation

405
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 1: of things that I put on in the background, But

406
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: and you know, not not to start with the negatives.

407
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 1: And like, I love Carly, I love emotion. I even

408
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 1: really like a lot of dedicated but Carly just kind

409
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: of makes the same song over and over again. Yeah,

410
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: I'm I'm feeling the repetitiveness too. And the thing about emotion,

411
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 1: and part of the reason it was so sublime was

412
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: because before that moment, Carly was just the call me

413
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 1: maybe girl right, she was making trash music, well trash

414
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: according to some music that felt like Disney Channel esque, right,

415
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:42,919
Speaker 1: and then she was like, let me tap all of

416
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: these exquisite producers, all these producers that I admire, and

417
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,640
Speaker 1: see what they can do with my sound. And as

418
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: a songwriter, I think that's like an incredible thing for

419
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 1: her to do. And so Emotion felt like such a

420
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: triumph because it was such an elevation of what Carly

421
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 1: was able to give. And these other two albums feel

422
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: like kind of like Midnights as well. Uh, the B

423
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: sides of the B sides right like, these were like

424
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 1: Sea sides to me, and like Carly and Taylor share

425
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: the proliferation component, right Like. I think she wrote like

426
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 1: two songs for emotion, like she kind of always she

427
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 1: is very Dolly esque, um, and I think that that

428
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: can be a wonderful thing. But also part of the

429
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,239
Speaker 1: weakness here is that there's too much material and not

430
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: enough focus on defining what exactly these songs want to say.

431
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 1: And I I just I want her to give me

432
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: what I want. I love the Rufus Waynewright song though,

433
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: But the thing is, I don't even really know what

434
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: I want from Carly because I think the problem is

435
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 1: that at the end of the day, I do want

436
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 1: more emotion, and she keeps trying to replicate it, so like,

437
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 1: in a way, she's giving me what I want. It's

438
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 1: just not really working because I already got the best

439
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: of it. My theory, my theory on that, honestly, is like,

440
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:08,120
Speaker 1: so Carly does have a really emotional quality to her voice, yes,

441
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: but she her voice is still very thin, right, She's

442
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 1: not a vocalist. She can't do what a tailor can

443
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,360
Speaker 1: do or what a willow can do. I mean those

444
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 1: I'm only mentioned this because they're the last two people

445
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: that we talked about. They're not really in any sort

446
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: of category, but just because they're the conversations of what

447
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 1: we're talking about. I'm just like, her voice is just thin.

448
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: It doesn't have that magnanimousness. And when you if you

449
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: ever see her perform on stage, she just kind of

450
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: like jumps around and it's like, cool, we love you.

451
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: But like I was like, you know what, I like,

452
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 1: listen to this album and I was like, you know

453
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: what it is, Carly doesn't have a personality, and she

454
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,479
Speaker 1: doesn't have a personality or an aesthetic or anything. And

455
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 1: because we there, we don't have the complete package of

456
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 1: who she is. As a pop star. We as audiences

457
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,360
Speaker 1: aren't able to place her, aren't able to place her

458
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: or and we're not able to plant meaning, more meaning,

459
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: and more personableness and relatableness into her music because we

460
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: don't really know that much about her. Um And I

461
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: don't know that's not really that's kind of I feel

462
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: kind of mean saying that, But I do feel like

463
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 1: it's a management issue. Like you and I don't remember

464
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: where we were, but like we were like in an

465
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: uber or something, and you were like, if you could

466
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: manage like one, you know, one person, and if you

467
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: could creative direct one celebrity, someone who really needs to

468
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 1: get it together. I mean, Carle maybe would be that girl,

469
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: because she makes really good music. And I just don't

470
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: think that she showed us a point of view behind

471
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: this kind of like I'm an awkward, lonely, little weird

472
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: girl and I fall in love sometimes too, and I'm like, Okay,

473
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: Even Emotion, which is one of the best pop albums

474
00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: of this millennium, has no aesthetic, has no good music videos.

475
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: The album cover is stupid. It just happens to have

476
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: incredible music on it, hedible music. UM So I want

477
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: the world I want her to world build, and I

478
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: hope that the next you know, album cycle is that

479
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: for her. Let's talk about interview with the Vampire. UM.

480
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: Did you watch this week's episode? I actually didn't finish. UM.

481
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: I want to hear what you think so far, and

482
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: then I'll kind of go into how I was digesting

483
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: this last episode. I love it. It's my favorite show

484
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: on TV. And now the House of the Dragon is over. Um.

485
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: Next week is the season finale, and I like, literally

486
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: don't know what I'm gonna do with my life without it.

487
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: I just keep being impressed with the way it is

488
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: adapting the source material and the choices it's making, and

489
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: how it is reinterpreting the original story and preserving the

490
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: things that work and changing the things that don't and

491
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: re contextualizing things like I as hard as it is

492
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: to watch, I think giving Lestat and Louise relationship the

493
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: proper context of a truly abusive relationship works really well

494
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 1: because it's not something that's ever been explored with this

495
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: kind of depth before, and it is hard to watch it,

496
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: you know, Like this week's episode was really hard to

497
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: watch Louis go back to his abuser, but it felt

498
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: very It felt very real to me, and it's something

499
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: that has like long gone unsaid in the way that

500
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: their relationship has been talked about, Like, yes, people always

501
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: say that they're toxic, but it's abusive, and it it

502
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 1: does I think what fantasy should do, which is like

503
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: take a real life dynamic and exaggerated through the lens

504
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: of fiction, because if you had an abusive partner who

505
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: had superpowers, this shows us what might happen in the circumstances.

506
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: I also really love this depiction of Claudia and I

507
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: Claudia has always been my favorite character and interview with

508
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: the vampire Um, and I think the choice to make

509
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:44,959
Speaker 1: her a teenager is so interesting because yes, there is

510
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: so much tragedy in Claudia being a woman trapped in

511
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: a child's body, and that is tragic. But I think

512
00:31:54,400 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: making her a teenager so she knows she's missing out

513
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: on she is on the cusp of womanhood, she can

514
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: have those experiences and be even further away from them

515
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: is so it is such an emotional gut punch, and

516
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: it doesn't I'm not saying it's better than the original,

517
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: but it's and it's incredibly satisfying in its you know,

518
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: um like devastation, UM take on that character and just

519
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: it makes sense. This reboot makes sense, like there is

520
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: a reason to be retelling the story in a new way.

521
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: And that's what I love so much about this version

522
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: of it is that it truly is adapting and updating

523
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,479
Speaker 1: and playing with the source material in a way that

524
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: makes it more relevant to the time that it's speaking

525
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: to and the time that it's being consumed in. The

526
00:32:55,200 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 1: reboot really does justify itself, like this material needed further

527
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: exploration and adapting. And I also much prefer the way

528
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 1: this Claudia is written, um as much as I love

529
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: Kiki uh I, I think for me, what I realized

530
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: UM watching this most recent half of this most recent

531
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: episode was that, um My, the fact that I don't

532
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: have an attachment to the source material is part of

533
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 1: the reason I am falling off a little bit. And

534
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 1: I think that if I was invested from square one

535
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: in the original story, which I don't really know anything about.

536
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: I did not google the full plot of the o

537
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: G interview with the Vampire, right like I didn't read

538
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: the full plot Summer. I only know the basics, so

539
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 1: I don't know as much about what's been changed and

540
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: what hasn't. So you describing that like and placings like

541
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 1: some of these things that have been changed, actually makes

542
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: me appreciate it even more. I think that just the

543
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: bones of the plot art not mighty like and I

544
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: and that's not, you know, the moved that the show's fault, right, Like,

545
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 1: I don't think fatherhood is an interesting theme in anything,

546
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: Like I don't want to watch things about fatherhood. I

547
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: don't want to watch things really about children. I think

548
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: this Claudia, as you said, is amazing, and I do

549
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: like the teen The teendom of her is is definitely compelling,

550
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 1: and this actress is really compelling. Um but I Listat

551
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: is so irredeemably abusive. I I just wish that he was.

552
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: I wish there was a little more subtlety on him

553
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 1: and a little less subtlety on Louis, because Louis to

554
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: me a lot I feel like a lot of time,

555
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,720
Speaker 1: not all the time, obviously, but a lot of times

556
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: things are just happening to him, Like I wish that

557
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:58,760
Speaker 1: he made more choices in the show instead of being

558
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: so beholden to List's ongoing abuse manipulation twists and turns,

559
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 1: and with LISTA. I wish that he I'm I'm okay

560
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 1: with all of the things that you know, all the

561
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,240
Speaker 1: way all the ways that he's abusing Louis, Like, yes,

562
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: that's like a real person. But I just like wish

563
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:23,280
Speaker 1: that there was a little more restraint on how insidious

564
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: and how a moral he is, Like I wanted, I

565
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: want redemption from him beyond how hot he is. And

566
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: for me, the only thing that redeems him is how

567
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 1: hot and romantic he is, and I don't know that

568
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: and that would be enough for me if there was

569
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 1: more subtlety to his character. You know, I see what

570
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 1: you're saying. I think it's interesting that you say that

571
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,439
Speaker 1: Louis doesn't make choices when I actually think he makes

572
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: a lot of choices. No, I said he makes he

573
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 1: doesn't make as many choices as I would like. I

574
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 1: didn't say he makes zero choices. Yeah, because I do

575
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,320
Speaker 1: think Louis is a character who's driven by the choices

576
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 1: he makes. I mean, his choice not to drink human

577
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: blood is what defines him and is the big, the

578
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: huge schism um in his relationship with Lestat and even

579
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:20,320
Speaker 1: with Claudia Um and then with the Listat of it all,

580
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 1: I get what you're saying, I actually don't. I actually

581
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 1: prefer him as a character who can't be redeemed because

582
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: you know what this season is all building towards and

583
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:35,240
Speaker 1: like the spoiler alert, but like this isn't a spoiler um.

584
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: You know, in the finale, um is leading to Claudia's

585
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: attempt to kill Lestat, And I actually think the way

586
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 1: that Lestat is being depicted and his abuse of louis

587
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 1: so much more gives gives such a clearer reasoning for

588
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 1: Claudia to want to kill him, because in the novel

589
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 1: and in film, you know, were led to understand that

590
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 1: Claudie wants to kill him because Lestat is a liar

591
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 1: and because he won't tell them about the you know,

592
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: their origins and other vampires, and because he kind of

593
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: sees them as his playthings rather than they truly need

594
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: to escape him and he won't allow them to. I mean,

595
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: there's this devastating scene at the end of the most

596
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: recent episode that I guess you didn't see, where Claudia

597
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: is trying to know She's like going off on her

598
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 1: own to get away, and Lestat tracks her down and says,

599
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: like you can't have your own life because I need

600
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: you here to make Louis happy and like it. How

601
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:43,240
Speaker 1: how much of a monster listat is justifies the fact

602
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 1: that they're going to attempt to murder him, and you

603
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: know these things are all happening for a reason. Um.

604
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 1: There was also a reveal about rashid Um at the

605
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 1: end of this week's episode that was, um, he's louise

606
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: Like personal assistant. Oh oh right, right, the one that

607
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: he like also sucks on, yes, um, And it's I

608
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 1: don't know where they're going with it. There's a lot,

609
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,720
Speaker 1: There's plenty of theories, and people who know more about

610
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 1: the an Rice universe might have better ideas about it.

611
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,479
Speaker 1: But I just am so enthralled by this show. I'm

612
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 1: so happy that you know, it was renewed for a

613
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 1: second season before the first season even started, so we're

614
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: getting more. There's also, um, the Mayfair Witches series that begins,

615
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 1: I believe in January. So they are building out this

616
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 1: immortal universe with all the different and Rice properties, and

617
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: I'm just very excited to see where we go from here.

618
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,720
Speaker 1: And I have been reading with that Louis fan fiction.

619
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 1: No surprises there, Um, will you be watching a Bobby

620
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: kind of Volley fan fiction after consuming The Watcher on Netflix. No,

621
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: but I did. I was, so, I've only watched like

622
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,280
Speaker 1: four or five episodes of The Watcher. I've been watching

623
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 1: it with Ryan. Can I can I not watching more

624
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 1: than four or five episodes? Um, but I did. I

625
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,359
Speaker 1: did ask Ryan, Um, because we both think Bobby kind

626
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 1: of all it is really sexy. I asked Ryan if

627
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,240
Speaker 1: he would murder rose Burne if he got to suck

628
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 1: off Bobby kind of all a and he said yes

629
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: without hesitation. I said, but what if Spy two was

630
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: already in pre production? And then he said no, because

631
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: we couldn't. We couldn't keep Rose burn from being in

632
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 1: Spy Too. No, we need Spy to. We need Spy To. Um.

633
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 1: What else? What other impressions you have on like the

634
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 1: series in gen I mean, it's so it's on to me,

635
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 1: Like having finished it, I feel like it's so um

636
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,399
Speaker 1: not good. Um. Yeah, I don't know that I'm going

637
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 1: to finish it. I don't know if I'm going to

638
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: watch it outside of the context of watching it with

639
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 1: Ryan and kind of like giggling through it. Yeah, it's

640
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,359
Speaker 1: I did read the New York Magazine article that it's

641
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,359
Speaker 1: based off of because I kind of wanted the real

642
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: life context of it, and also I wanted to spoil

643
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: myself and see how it was going to end. Um

644
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: And what I found very frustrating is that the mystery

645
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 1: is unsolved. Um so I do. I mean, we don't

646
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:26,879
Speaker 1: have to necessarily spoil it for the virgins, you don't

647
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 1: have to get into specifics. But it is a limited series.

648
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 1: Is there a definitive ending? Is the Watcher unveiled? No

649
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 1: that I don't like. Sorry, Yeah, it is such a

650
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: it makes you It makes the whole show feel like

651
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 1: such a colossal waste of time because it's not even

652
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 1: very well written. Like to me, Ryan Murphy saw White

653
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: Lotus and was like, there is an American horror story

654
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 1: version of this, and that's why he started to work

655
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 1: on The Watcher. He probably also watched you know, The

656
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:08,240
Speaker 1: Undoing or you know, Fucking the Staircase or something like that, Like, yeah,

657
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 1: it's it's there. There's a clear um context that that

658
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 1: the show is sitting within there, there is a trend

659
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: that it is that it is hopping on for sure. Yeah.

660
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 1: So to me that the show is very watchable, like

661
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 1: no pun int um and that, but that is because

662
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 1: of I think the casting is amazing, Like Bobby kind

663
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 1: of Vale, Margot Martindale, Jennifer Coolidge is really good. Mia

664
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: Faroh when was the last time, you know, we got

665
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 1: to see herself which also Nomadumezwenny was Hermione and Harry

666
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: Potter and the Curse Child. Yes, and she is to

667
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 1: me the best character in the undoing as well. Um.

668
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 1: I what I like about the show is that I

669
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 1: think it um is a really good depiction of uh,

670
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: you know this modern you know, American horror, which is

671
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: the horror of living outside your means and what that

672
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 1: can lead to. Because you know, we see this family,

673
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:16,320
Speaker 1: you know, buying this house that they can't afford and

674
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:20,319
Speaker 1: then they're stuck there, I mean to be fair, that

675
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 1: also literally is the plot of American Horror story season

676
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 1: one Murder House, Like they're living in a haunted house

677
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 1: so they can't afford to move out of. Um, you know,

678
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 1: the casting is amazing. Um. I think casting me a

679
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: pharaoh is genius because of the Rosemary's Baby of it all,

680
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 1: because you know, this is essentially the plot of Rosemary's Baby.

681
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 1: Um it is I've never seen it. Oh yeah, Rosemary's

682
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 1: Baby is about you know, this woman who you know,

683
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: moves into an apartment with her husband and they have

684
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:57,479
Speaker 1: all these creepy neighbors and their secret passages and like people.

685
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,360
Speaker 1: I mean, like that is like literally Satan Nick and

686
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 1: like she's im like raped and like impregnated with the Antichrist.

687
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:08,320
Speaker 1: But it's like very obvious why she was cast because

688
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: of all those parallels. And I think in the couple

689
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: episodes that I've watched, I think she's criminally under used. Yes,

690
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: and also like she deserves a show that's better written

691
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 1: than this. I'm sorry, Like I know Ryan Murphy can

692
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,720
Speaker 1: kind of get whoever he wants, but like Mia Farrow

693
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 1: is so she needs to do more things. And I

694
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,399
Speaker 1: don't know this was I don't understand why the their

695
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 1: bed is in the middle of their bedroom. It was

696
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 1: so confusing to me. Also, Nami Watts never wears the

697
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: same thing twice. She has so many fucking chunky, you know,

698
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 1: alpaca sweaters and like duster coats, and I mean, she

699
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: looks great. Can you explain I want her entire wardrobe?

700
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,760
Speaker 1: Can you explain to me why girls why the girls

701
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 1: love Naomi Watts? Like I don't really, I don't. I

702
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: don't know any I've only seen her in King Kong

703
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 1: and I think that's it. Uh. She is sort of

704
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 1: she's blonde, she's blonde, she's she's like she's like in

705
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: a cool kidman variant. She you know. I think they

706
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: came up around similar times, and Naomi Watts has she's

707
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: kind of one of the if you know, you know

708
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 1: girls actually who Weekly talked about her recently because they

709
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:27,240
Speaker 1: were talking about the watch her and like they understand

710
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 1: celebrity culture in a way that I never will. So

711
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: I would definitely suggest like listening to their take on

712
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:35,360
Speaker 1: the Naomi Wats of it all. I think she's just

713
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 1: a very good actress. She's a pretty white, blonde woman.

714
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 1: She was in the Ring. It is kind of crazy

715
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:43,240
Speaker 1: that the Ring is the thing that she's the most

716
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 1: famous for, like on a on a sort of mainstream

717
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: mass appeal level. I've seen The Ring and I did

718
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 1: not know she was in that. But that wasn't like

719
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: in high school, so I'll forgive myself for that. I

720
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: want to chew Bobby Kinnavali's eyebrows off his face in

721
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 1: a sexual way. He is so that sounds hard I

722
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 1: mean he and he's also an incredible actor. Yeah, he's

723
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,800
Speaker 1: a great actor. I saw him. He and Rose Byrne,

724
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:13,760
Speaker 1: who is his wife. They did a production of Media

725
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 1: at BAM a couple of years ago where they played

726
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: the main characters and it was so good and like

727
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 1: they were so amazing on stage together. One of the

728
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 1: things that they didn't understand. Okay, so the episode where

729
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 1: the daughter like goes live on TikTok and and and

730
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 1: you know, spins this conflict that's happening between her father

731
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:37,840
Speaker 1: and her boyfriend into like into her father being racist.

732
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: Is she an influencer? Like why did why did it

733
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: go viral? Why does his assistant come in and with

734
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 1: the phone? Like is this your daughter? Like what you

735
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 1: don't get? Though I don't she's not an influencer. I

736
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: think it just went viral. Like I think she went

737
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 1: viral as an army, which like nobody writes I've I've actually,

738
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:01,359
Speaker 1: I have yet to see a piction of someone going

739
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 1: viral that I felt was like effective or like added

740
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: to the story. Like I I'm trying, I mean maybe

741
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: that I don't know, I'm trying to think of others,

742
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: but like I just like it's It's just a lot

743
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 1: of times when things are written like that, I'm like,

744
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:15,280
Speaker 1: this is something, this is written by someone who doesn't

745
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 1: use social media, Like I just I don't get it. Um,

746
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 1: But but I that on top of that, to your point,

747
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: like that is like one of like many many inconsistencies

748
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 1: in how the plot unfolds. And something that's amazing is that, um,

749
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 1: the casting is great and everyone is a suspect. So

750
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:38,839
Speaker 1: that does create a very playful and fun viewing experience

751
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: where you're trying to figure out who it is. Yes,

752
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: every time a new character is introduced, I'm like, yep,

753
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 1: they're in on it. She's in on it, he's in

754
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:49,320
Speaker 1: on it. Yes, And I think that's great. It's just, um,

755
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:55,320
Speaker 1: it's infuriating that there's there's no there's no reveal. I yeah,

756
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 1: I was. I was reading that New York Magazine article like,

757
00:46:58,000 --> 00:46:59,879
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is so long. I can't wait

758
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 1: of the end when they reveal who it is, and

759
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: then there's no reveal. The show also fabricates like a

760
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 1: large majority of the things that happened in the actual show,

761
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 1: which is fine. I'm fine with that, but it must

762
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 1: be said, Yeah, I mean based on the article that

763
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 1: I read. Really, the only thing that happened was the letters.

764
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:22,280
Speaker 1: The letters, That's the entirety of what happened to them. Yeah,

765
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of Google Okay. So now I think

766
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 1: it's kind of the part where to two roads diverge

767
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 1: and we're maybe going to talk about some things that

768
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 1: we've each been consuming on our own. Um, I've seen

769
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 1: some theater recently that we just would like to to

770
00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 1: talk about briefly. I did mention that I'm pretty sure

771
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 1: that I got COVID at Hadestown, which I saw a

772
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago. Um, I I thought Hadestown sucked

773
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: so much, and it has been such a cultural phenomenon

774
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 1: over the past couple of years. It's like one of

775
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:20,280
Speaker 1: those pieces of theater that has really crossed over into

776
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 1: the mainstream. And like I understand why that is, because

777
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: because it is kind of the show that tricks normal

778
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 1: people into thinking that they're watching something really deep and

779
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 1: it just isn't. Like I did not feel anything while

780
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 1: watching it there. I did not feel a single emotion.

781
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:45,839
Speaker 1: And it's such a failure for anyone who doesn't know

782
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 1: Hadestown is about, you know, the myth of Orpheus and

783
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 1: eurityosy Um. But also it kind of isn't it you know,

784
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 1: places the myth in this sort of like steam punk

785
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 1: like nineteen twenties esque context. It's like post industrial um,

786
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 1: and it almost like can't decide if it wants to

787
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: be literally about the myth of Orpheus and Euridicy and

788
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 1: you know, Haiti isn't Persephone and these mythological characters, or

789
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: if it wants to be this like you know, like

790
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: work shoppy ass like tumbler musical. It's so tumbler. All

791
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:30,839
Speaker 1: the music was very forgettable. I just like really did

792
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 1: not enjoy it. UM do not recommend UM. And then

793
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 1: last week I saw Weathering Heights at St. Anne's Warehouse UM,

794
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:47,840
Speaker 1: which had kind of similar vibes, like very deconstructed UM.

795
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 1: So it's like, what are you saying. It's like Vaudavillian,

796
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:52,839
Speaker 1: Like you can see the pieces of the theater and

797
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's it's like black box theater. It's

798
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,279
Speaker 1: like yeah, like you know, there's like a door that's

799
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: rolled on stage, and you know there's like puppets and um.

800
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:08,359
Speaker 1: All of the chorus members play multiple characters or like

801
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 1: the same actor plays a father and a son at

802
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 1: different points in their lives. Um The main issue with

803
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 1: it is that it fails that the basic responsibility of

804
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 1: what a musical is supposed to do. In musicals, characters

805
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 1: sing because they feel an emotion so deeply that they

806
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:28,399
Speaker 1: can no longer say it, they have to sing it,

807
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:32,959
Speaker 1: and this show does not do that. M Rice, who

808
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 1: adapted Weathering Heights into this production and directed it, was

809
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 1: clearly very passionate about maintaining Bronte's words. But I think

810
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 1: it's too faithful of an adaptation because the characters speak

811
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:54,760
Speaker 1: lines of dialogue lifted directly from the novel, but they

812
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:58,799
Speaker 1: speak them and then a scene later they sing a

813
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 1: song that has nothing to you with what they were

814
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 1: just talking about, Like when Kathy says, I am Heathcliff.

815
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 1: This like iconic line of dialogue. That is one of

816
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 1: the best ways in literature anyone has ever written. You know,

817
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 1: the idea of a loving someone so much that you

818
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 1: feel like you are them. It is so integral to

819
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 1: your character. That should have been a song I Am

820
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:28,359
Speaker 1: Heathcliff should have been sung, and instead she says it,

821
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:31,360
Speaker 1: and then a scene later she picks up a microphone

822
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: like she's in Spring Awakening and sings a rock song

823
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 1: that has nothing to do with anything she's been saying

824
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: and just feels like someone wrote a play, and then

825
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:40,360
Speaker 1: at the end they were like, oh, let's put music

826
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: in it. That's such a missed opportunity, because like with

827
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:47,800
Speaker 1: with both Wuthering Heights and with Um you know Orpheus

828
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:51,879
Speaker 1: and your writtasy, like these are too, those are these

829
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 1: are tragic stories, and with Rvous and your writticcy, there's

830
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:01,720
Speaker 1: so much room to play with nailing down and describing

831
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 1: what that tragedy feels like. And similarly with Wuthering Heights,

832
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 1: it's like, even though you know, Bronte has so much

833
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:10,800
Speaker 1: on the page that we can read like that is

834
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 1: a moment where it's like it's a song and damn,

835
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 1: that's that's really disappointing. Yeah, and it just made me

836
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:20,840
Speaker 1: wish it had been a Kate Bush jukebox musical. I

837
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 1: don't know why it wasn't Um. Also, it did remind

838
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 1: me a lot of the sort of deconstructed nous and

839
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 1: like workshopp nous of. It reminded me a lot of

840
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:33,719
Speaker 1: the ocean at the end of the Lane, which is

841
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 1: a play based on a novel by Neil Gaiman that

842
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 1: has sort of a similar staging and also uses music,

843
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:44,760
Speaker 1: but uses music, you know in scene changes, like also

844
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 1: kind of in the way that Harry Potter and the

845
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 1: Chris Child does you Know image And he wrote this

846
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:54,799
Speaker 1: entire score for that show and it uses music without

847
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 1: calling itself a musical. And I think this show would

848
00:52:57,280 --> 00:52:59,799
Speaker 1: have been much better if it had done that. And

849
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 1: I still really like the staging. Um. The second act

850
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: was much better than the first act. The first the

851
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 1: show is three hours, and the first act felt like

852
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 1: it was three hours long because the first act ends

853
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 1: with Cathy dying, and it's like, okay, well, if you

854
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:16,560
Speaker 1: decide that that's how the first act ends, it's up

855
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 1: to you to edit things out so that you're not

856
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:24,400
Speaker 1: just like going through the story up until that point

857
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 1: and it feeling like a hundred years long. But I

858
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 1: still enjoyed myself. I had a good time. It was

859
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,239
Speaker 1: nice to be at the THEATA. I love I love

860
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 1: a term you've coined, which is work shoppy. That is

861
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:40,080
Speaker 1: such a good way to describe a lot of things,

862
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:44,400
Speaker 1: especially on the stage. Like I would much prefer something

863
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 1: that feels work shoppy, unfinished or imperfect, like doesn't quite

864
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 1: say what it wants to say, but at least it

865
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 1: tries over something that you know, tried too hard to

866
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 1: be perfect and polished and ultimately didn't try anything. You know,

867
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:03,319
Speaker 1: but like this sounds like it wasn't very successful and

868
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:08,280
Speaker 1: so they made a lot of choices. They're just very

869
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 1: A lot of them were wrong. A lot of them

870
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: were wrong. What have you been engaging in that I

871
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 1: have not been privy too well. I am watching this

872
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:22,319
Speaker 1: current season of Great British Baking Show and I don't

873
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:24,360
Speaker 1: have much to report on because it's not a short,

874
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 1: it's not a show really to report on. UM, but

875
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 1: they had this for the very first time, they had

876
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 1: Mexico Week, which really was incredible. It exceeded all of

877
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 1: my expectations and was such an exceptional episode of like

878
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:47,560
Speaker 1: reality TV. And you know, anyone that's on Twitter saw

879
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:50,719
Speaker 1: the clips that were you know, out there, UM this

880
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 1: amazing contestant calling guacamole glocky molo. I felt like joy filled,

881
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 1: filling to the brim of my heart watching a bunch

882
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 1: of white people and non Latin people attempt to understand

883
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 1: Mexican cuisine. Um. Cultural appropriation is good again, That's what

884
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 1: I'm trying to say. We we as a society need

885
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:22,840
Speaker 1: to create more things wherein white people are struggling to

886
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 1: master the thing the things that don't belong to them, right,

887
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 1: this is one of those I think there I don't.

888
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 1: I didn't really see any very serious discourse about it,

889
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 1: but I know that there are people out there that

890
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:37,440
Speaker 1: are like, canceled to Mexico Week, How dare You a

891
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:39,919
Speaker 1: great British baking show? And I was like, actually, like

892
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 1: the show was very aware of what it was doing

893
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:46,319
Speaker 1: and flexed on what it's good at, which is kind

894
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 1: of portraying lovable and income poops. Like like really like

895
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 1: that that's, at the end of the day, what it was.

896
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 1: And I really love they really and income poop is

897
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:00,360
Speaker 1: the is the word. Um. I will say just on

898
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 1: a hold that the contestants where we're at now, I

899
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:07,520
Speaker 1: really hope that Maxi is the winner and that she

900
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:12,240
Speaker 1: beats out Yanush, who is kind of the judge's favorite

901
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 1: and the one that's most technically perfect. There's always one

902
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 1: guy that's like a robotically technically a perfect baker, and

903
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 1: it's so soulless and yet he wins every challenge and

904
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 1: I don't want it to be him. But there's this

905
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:26,839
Speaker 1: man on the show that is also going to be

906
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:30,200
Speaker 1: in the top three in my opinion, name Sandro. You've

907
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:33,840
Speaker 1: seen pictures of Sandra, haven't you? I have not? Oh

908
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 1: my god, wait, I actually we need the live react

909
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 1: right now of Rose seeing images of Sandra from Great British.

910
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 1: And to be clear, I will watch the show over

911
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: the past couple of years, I've watched every season. I

912
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:49,759
Speaker 1: just prefer to watch it all at once and and

913
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 1: not week to week. Um. Oh wow, he is so

914
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 1: fucking fine. And he's also huge. Oh my god, he's

915
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:03,319
Speaker 1: a huge man, and he's an exquisite sexy baker. His

916
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 1: hand his hands look very large, so large. Anyways, we're

917
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 1: rooting for you, Sandrow. Um okay, what else have I

918
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 1: paid consuming? Oh oh okay, this is good, A good

919
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 1: call back to our Stephen King episode. I finally watched

920
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 1: Carrie the original. Yes, the non Chloe Grace Mourettes carry,

921
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:26,920
Speaker 1: the only carry, the only carry I recognize. Yes. Um,

922
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 1: I want to say, you know, on top of our

923
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 1: conversation in that episode that we failed to talk about

924
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 1: how John Travolta is in this movie what I had,

925
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 1: and it's very sexy. Young John Travolta was really hot.

926
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 1: And also don't don't cancel me, but John Travolta since

927
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 1: he shaved his head is hot again. Oh my god, Rose,

928
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 1: that's so bad. He is literally it is what it is.

929
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 1: He is one of the most powerful people in the

930
00:57:56,680 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 1: Scientology church. Like he has ascended to a tear of Scientology.

931
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 1: He has a title I can't remember what, but he

932
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 1: got the funk up. He has a title I can't

933
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:09,320
Speaker 1: remember the titleist, but the clearance that he has in

934
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 1: the yeah yeah, dick sucker in chief. Um, he has

935
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 1: clearance in Scientology that is so powerful that he is

936
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 1: allowed to kill, Like he can kill someone and Scientology

937
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 1: allows it as a like within the architecture of their

938
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:33,120
Speaker 1: belief systems. Well, maybe I need to think more about

939
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 1: George Um which also like listen watching Carry, I was like, wait,

940
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 1: was John Travolta's like last like like meaningful appearance in

941
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:50,760
Speaker 1: Hollywood Hairspray. I I literally like we could pull up

942
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 1: the IMDb that is like it is actually incredible that

943
00:58:56,280 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 1: his his his final most like known performance in the

944
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 1: Eons of a career that someone as legendary as John

945
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 1: Tribolda has had was dressing up as it was hairspray,

946
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 1: and then it was adult dosime and oh right, adult desime.

947
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:21,439
Speaker 1: He has contributed so much, he is he is a king.

948
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:24,959
Speaker 1: It's true. It's true. Um. But anyways, on the carry

949
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: of it all, the thing that I just wanted to

950
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 1: say on top of our conversation is that it's so deranged,

951
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:35,840
Speaker 1: like the way the movie is directed, but not just

952
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:39,080
Speaker 1: like in a horrific way, Like the way the movie

953
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:46,000
Speaker 1: is directed is so bizarre, and every single fever dream yes,

954
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:48,480
Speaker 1: And and the way I would describe it is like

955
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 1: every single character feels like they are a woman on

956
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:55,640
Speaker 1: the verge of a nervous breakdown, right, Like every single

957
00:59:56,000 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 1: character is at the absolute max some them of what

958
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:04,320
Speaker 1: they can handle at the beginning of every scene, and

959
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 1: one single stimuli puts them over the edge. Like everyone

960
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:12,520
Speaker 1: in this movie, not just Carry, not just her mom.

961
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:17,560
Speaker 1: Everyone is hysterical, like in hysterics. And I thought that

962
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: that was such a funny lens on um the story

963
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:23,840
Speaker 1: as a whole. I think there's something kind of Stephen

964
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: Kingy about that, Like I think that his characters are really, um,

965
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 1: extremely melodramatic. I don't even know if melodrama is the word.

966
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 1: It's obviously um camp in a lot of ways in

967
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 1: its purest form, but like I was so engaged from

968
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 1: the jump by how wild and weird this movie is, like, Um,

969
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 1: I don't know that I agree that Carry is camp.

970
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:52,640
Speaker 1: Maybe Piper Laurie a little bit. No, it's definitely. I

971
01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 1: think if you rewatch it, I mean, like fucking I

972
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:58,960
Speaker 1: have watched it, watched it many times, you're gonna tell

973
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:03,280
Speaker 1: me that Carries Mom in her nightgown holding the knife

974
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:07,920
Speaker 1: up and smiling like like crazy is like not to

975
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 1: some extent like camp, like I also honestly even in

976
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:15,440
Speaker 1: the beginning, like um, Sissy SpaceX, like first like seven

977
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 1: minutes of dialogue, it's just like her wailing, like she

978
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 1: has no line. She goes like something something truly horrifying

979
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:26,440
Speaker 1: that's happening to her and she thinks she's dying, right,

980
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:31,240
Speaker 1: but like truly post verbal, like no real words like I.

981
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 1: And that's like kind of what I'm alluding to, Like

982
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 1: there's there. It's funny how emphatic every character was directed

983
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:41,160
Speaker 1: to be and how I don't know I thought. I

984
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 1: just thought that that's something that made the movie so

985
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:47,560
Speaker 1: much weirder and more interesting. Um to watch, and I

986
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:50,920
Speaker 1: really appreciated it visually as well. Um, so it's a

987
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:54,800
Speaker 1: beautiful film, great movie to re visit. You saw Halloween Ends.

988
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 1: I did. I did watch Halloween Ends on Peacock. I

989
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 1: very fran tried watching Halloween Kills. Halloween Kills is disgusting, horrible.

990
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 1: I started. I watched I should you not at least

991
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 1: twenty minutes of it, but before realizing that there was

992
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:14,200
Speaker 1: a movie that came before this movie that I did

993
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:18,560
Speaker 1: not watch. Um, yeah, it's it seemed really bad and boring.

994
01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:23,360
Speaker 1: But um, Kyle Richard's love, Oh Kyle was so good

995
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 1: in Halloween Kills. She was the best part of the movie.

996
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 1: Very underused in Halloween Ends. You know, a lot of

997
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:32,960
Speaker 1: people really don't seem to like it. I think it's

998
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:37,160
Speaker 1: it's a very quiet way to end this forty five

999
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:41,200
Speaker 1: year franchise and story. But I thought it did some

1000
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:49,800
Speaker 1: interesting things with the way it carried on the idea

1001
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:57,240
Speaker 1: of Michael Myers as this sort of spiritual evil that

1002
01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:01,560
Speaker 1: has haunted Laurie Strode her entire life, and in Halloween Ends,

1003
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:05,920
Speaker 1: there is a character who sort of takes up Michael's legacy,

1004
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:10,880
Speaker 1: and you see how a normal person, through a series

1005
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:17,760
Speaker 1: of really tragic circumstances, could become a killer. Um, which

1006
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:20,080
Speaker 1: I thought was interesting and I liked that it is

1007
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:24,880
Speaker 1: a definitive ending to Laurie's story to Michael Myers. And

1008
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:27,480
Speaker 1: it's certainly not a perfect film, and I'm glad I

1009
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:31,200
Speaker 1: watched it on Peacock rather than seeing it in theaters. Um,

1010
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:34,840
Speaker 1: because it's it's a movie that you know, you look

1011
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 1: at your phone during is what you're saying, Oh, totally

1012
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 1: totally spoiler alert. How did they? How did die? Jamie?

1013
01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:46,560
Speaker 1: The Curtis kills him, and then um, to make sure

1014
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 1: that he is dead once and for all, they string

1015
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:52,760
Speaker 1: him up on a car, and the whole town sort

1016
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:55,440
Speaker 1: of like gathers and they parade through the streets and

1017
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:59,280
Speaker 1: they take him to like the Junkyard and put him

1018
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 1: through an industrial grinder while everyone watches. That's great, yeah, um,

1019
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:11,920
Speaker 1: And the whole movie is sort of about how, you know,

1020
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 1: you're understanding how the town hates Laurie Strode because this

1021
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:20,400
Speaker 1: very personal, you know, battle she's having with Michael Myers

1022
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:23,200
Speaker 1: has really impacted all of them, and so it is

1023
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 1: very cathartic that they all get to watch him die.

1024
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:30,560
Speaker 1: Speaking of movies, I don't want to talk about it

1025
01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 1: this week because I really want to wait to have

1026
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 1: this conversation until you've seen it. But I saw My

1027
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 1: Policeman in theaters and really, actually surprisingly liked it, and

1028
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:44,840
Speaker 1: so we will talk about it. I want you to

1029
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:48,080
Speaker 1: see it. It also doesn't come out on Amazon, I

1030
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:52,040
Speaker 1: think until this Friday, So Virgins, if you want to

1031
01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:55,640
Speaker 1: watch it and here our takes, watch it and we'll

1032
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:59,360
Speaker 1: talk about it next week. I'm I'm probably gonna like

1033
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:01,920
Speaker 1: it too. I'm a little bit of a higher I

1034
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:05,560
Speaker 1: think you will. And it has problems, that has flaws,

1035
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:08,000
Speaker 1: but I really liked it despite the splaws. I think

1036
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:11,320
Speaker 1: it's a lovely film that is very well acted and

1037
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:21,520
Speaker 1: well made. Damn Okay, we'll talk about it next week.

1038
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:25,120
Speaker 1: We'll be back with an episode all about Indie Slee's

1039
01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:29,280
Speaker 1: so um you know. Dig into your tumbler archives, break

1040
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:33,280
Speaker 1: out your American apparel v neck check to see which

1041
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:36,640
Speaker 1: book items are from the Urban outfit our skift table.

1042
01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:40,520
Speaker 1: In the meantime, you can connect with us on Instagram

1043
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:44,640
Speaker 1: at like a Virgin, Um, did we miss anything you

1044
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:47,440
Speaker 1: wanted us to talk about this week? Are you happy

1045
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 1: Halloween's over? You're looking forward to the holidays? Let us know,

1046
01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:53,760
Speaker 1: and please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It

1047
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:56,640
Speaker 1: helps us so much. I'm your co host, Rose Damn

1048
01:05:56,640 --> 01:05:59,720
Speaker 1: You. You You can find me anywhere online at Rose Damn You,

1049
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:02,560
Speaker 1: and I'm friend. You can find me at friends, squish co,

1050
01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:06,120
Speaker 1: anywhere you want subscribe to Like a Virgin anywhere you

1051
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:08,960
Speaker 1: listen to podcasts, and please leave us a rating on

1052
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:12,840
Speaker 1: Spotify or review on Apple Podcasts. Like a Virgin is

1053
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:15,840
Speaker 1: an I Heart radio production. Our producer is Phoebe Unter,

1054
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:20,160
Speaker 1: with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Cranechitch and

1055
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:24,880
Speaker 1: Nikki Tour Until next week. Choose, as Lydia Tar would

1056
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:26,440
Speaker 1: say in Berlin, my