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Speaker 1: Welcome to an all new season of the bright Side.

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Speaker 1: On today's premiere, we're talking to Emmy winning sports journalist

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Speaker 1: Sarah Spain. She's opening up about chasing big dreams, facing

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Speaker 1: even bigger crossroads, and what it really means to evolve

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Speaker 1: in the public eye. It's time to get real about ambition,

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Speaker 1: fear of failure, and trusting yourself to start again.

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Speaker 2: Either you're the hot girl, or you're the funny girl,

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Speaker 2: or you're the smart girl. And I think for women especially,

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Speaker 2: there is this feeling of we cannot view you as

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Speaker 2: anything other than what we decided you are.

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Speaker 1: I'm Simone Boyce and this is the bright Side from

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Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine, Hello bright Side besties. We are back, baby,

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Speaker 1: we are so back. Season two is finally here, and

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Speaker 1: I cannot tell you how good it feels to finally

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Speaker 1: be able to say that I.

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Speaker 2: Have missed you all so much.

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Speaker 1: It's been wonderful to keep in touch with some of

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Speaker 1: y'all on social media. Let's keep doing that, please, because

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Speaker 1: I love hearing from you. I'm at some voice on everything.

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Speaker 1: So in our last episode we mentioned that we are

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Speaker 1: going to be taking a little Hot Girl pause, and

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Speaker 1: during that time that gave us some space to reflect

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Speaker 1: and really think about how we can be even more

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Speaker 1: intentional about bringing you the fun, uplifting, smart, empowering conversations

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Speaker 1: that you love here on the bright Side. And if

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Speaker 1: you've been rocking with us from the beginning, you know

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Speaker 1: the bright Side has been your daily dose of optimism,

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Speaker 1: joy and transformation. And this season, we are going to

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Speaker 1: be diving even deeper into that conversation as we lean

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Speaker 1: into the joy of becoming, so you'll be hearing real

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Speaker 1: conversations about confidence, self care, friendship, entrepreneurship, health and wellness.

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Speaker 1: We're talking to women who have made bold moves or

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Speaker 1: small shifts and everything in between, and we're giving ourselves

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Speaker 1: permission to dream a little differently, because ultimately, growth isn't

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Speaker 1: about becoming someone else, It's about becoming more of who

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Speaker 1: we already are. All right now, for some updates, The

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Speaker 1: bright Side is officially a weekly show now, y'all. Every Monday,

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Speaker 1: we're going to be starting our week with uplifting conversations,

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Speaker 1: thought provoking, perspective shifts and interviews that spark the inspiration

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Speaker 1: that I know we're all looking for right now. Plus,

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Speaker 1: we've got an incredible lineup of celebrity guests, those laugh

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Speaker 1: out loud moments and hot takes on all of the

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Speaker 1: pop culture moments that everyone is talking about. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: a lot of you are like, Okay, Simon, this is

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Speaker 1: great and all, but where's my girl Danielle. Well, on

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Speaker 1: that note, we've got some really amazing news at Hello Sunshine.

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Speaker 1: We are actually expanding our podcast portfolio and Danielle is

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Speaker 1: hosting an all new show. But I don't want to

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Speaker 1: be the one to tell you about it, so let's

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Speaker 1: go ahead and welcome my OG co host and bright

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Speaker 1: Side bestie, Danielle Samoud. I missed you. I missed you too.

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Speaker 1: It's so good to see your face. I know.

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Speaker 2: I'm so happy to see you.

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Speaker 1: How are you. I'm doing well. I feel powerful right now.

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Speaker 1: I just got down with a hard workout, so that's good.

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Speaker 1: Been trying to take care of myself, you know. I

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Speaker 1: think having a little bit of a break was so

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Speaker 1: good for me mentally. It was like really rejuvenating. I

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Speaker 1: dug into like my creativity and writing and journaling. So

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Speaker 1: I'm feeling really good. How about you? What have you

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Speaker 1: been up to?

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Speaker 3: You know what, I'm somewhere between thriving and googling how

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Speaker 3: to become a goat farmer in Tuscany, Like every day

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Speaker 3: is sort of different. No, I'm I've been decorating my apartment.

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Speaker 3: I've been cooking a little bit. I've been dating a lot.

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Speaker 3: Say what I didn't say, I've been cooking. Well, but

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Speaker 3: I've been cooking.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Like, what are we throwing down in the kitchen?

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Speaker 1: What are we working with here?

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Speaker 2: Eggs?

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Speaker 3: Who're cooking eggs? Okay, we're cooking salmon. I learned how

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Speaker 3: to make rice. I bought a rice cooker. Didn't know

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Speaker 3: the cooker could do it for you.

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Speaker 1: That's like next level cooking. I do microwave Trader Joe's rice.

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Speaker 1: So I can't even talk.

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Speaker 2: No, that's delicious rice? Is I learned? I didn't know.

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Speaker 2: It's been really fun. I feel like I'm nesting a

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Speaker 2: little bit.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Danielle, give us the tea girl. What can you

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Speaker 1: tell us about this new show?

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Speaker 3: Well, first of all, let me just say I'm gonna

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Speaker 3: mishosting the bright side this season with you. But I

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Speaker 3: am also really really excited because the brand new show

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Speaker 3: is coming out next month.

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Speaker 2: And I can't.

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Speaker 3: Say too much yet. But what I can say is

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Speaker 3: that this show is going to dive into a world

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Speaker 3: that we all know and love. Like when I say love,

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Speaker 3: I mean love, okay, And I'm going to be talking

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Speaker 3: to people that shape culture. And here's the thing that

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Speaker 3: I'm most excited for. This is not just a show

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Speaker 3: for you, It's a show with you. You have a

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Speaker 3: seat at the table. We're gonna all have so much

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Speaker 3: fun together. I know I'm being so weird and top secret,

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Speaker 3: so I can't wait to share more details with you soon.

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Speaker 3: So keep listening to the bright Side and follow along

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Speaker 3: on social media.

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Speaker 2: I met Danielle robe.

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Speaker 3: Definitely follow at Hello Sunshine, and you'll have all the

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Speaker 3: updates soon.

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Speaker 1: Well, we cannot wait to hear more. You know will

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Speaker 1: be rooting for you all the way. And it has

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Speaker 1: been so much fun to get back on the mic

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Speaker 1: with you.

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Speaker 2: Congrats on the premiere. This is major.

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Speaker 1: Okay, y'all, It is time to get this episode started.

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Speaker 1: We told you we put a lot of thought into

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Speaker 1: how we wanted to kick off this new season, and

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Speaker 1: we've been really intentional about who would set the tone

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Speaker 1: for the kinds of conversations that we want to have together.

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Speaker 1: And I told you, I told you, I wanted to

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Speaker 1: go deeper with you this season, and we're doing that

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Speaker 1: today with someone who embodies main character energy. And I'm

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Speaker 1: not talking about the overused trendy way, No, I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about somebody who takes big swings, who wipes out and

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Speaker 1: still finds the audacity to get back up. Someone who

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Speaker 1: has stared down rejection, fear of failure, and that relentless

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Speaker 1: inner critic and chose to trust yourself anyway. Someone who

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Speaker 1: refuses to shrink or let the world put her in

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Speaker 1: a box. Someone like Sarah Spain. You probably know Sarah

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Speaker 1: from ESPN, from her razor sharp commentary on sports and culture,

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Speaker 1: or maybe just from being one of the smartest voices

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Speaker 1: in the media game right now. She's been a fixture

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Speaker 1: at ESPN for over a decade, across platforms like Around

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Speaker 1: the Horn, Highly Questionable, and Spain and Fits. She's also

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Speaker 1: an Emmy winner and a Peabody winner, Okay, a longtime

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Speaker 1: advocate for women in sports and equity and media, which

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Speaker 1: is one of the reasons why she created Good Game

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Speaker 1: with Sarah Spain, the first daily podcast dedicated to women's sports,

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Speaker 1: and most recently, she's the author of the new book

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Speaker 1: Runs in The Family, which follows the real life story

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Speaker 1: of Delan McCullough, a father of four and accomplished football

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Speaker 1: coach whose world gets turned upside down when he learns

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Speaker 1: the truth about his family history. Y'all, I knew going

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Speaker 1: into this conversation that Sarah and I were going to

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Speaker 1: have a few things in common. I personally know what

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Speaker 1: it's like to climb through the ranks of the media

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Speaker 1: industry only to be met with constant rejection and also

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Speaker 1: confronting the reality that there are going to be suits

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Speaker 1: and gatekeepers at every turn who want to keep you

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Speaker 1: in a box and make you stay in your lane.

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Speaker 1: But what I did I didn't expect was how candid

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Speaker 1: Sarah was about her setbacks and low points, and that

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Speaker 1: honesty was so liberating. It was so refreshing to hear,

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Speaker 1: and it really inspired me not to fear those moments,

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Speaker 1: but to embrace the freedom that comes on the other side.

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Speaker 1: All Right, it's time to hype up the ultimate hype woman.

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Speaker 1: Here's my conversation with Sarah Spain. Sarah Spain, Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the bright Side.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Congratulations on your book Runs in the Family. You got

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Speaker 1: the most epic co sign from our very own Reese

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Speaker 1: Witherspoon on your story that this book is based on.

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Speaker 1: And here's what Rees said. Okay, she said, quote had

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Speaker 1: me in tears. It made me believe in fate, the

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Speaker 1: power of family and divine intervention. And this is the

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Speaker 1: best part. You know, this is the best part, she said.

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Speaker 1: And it's so well written. I mean, you can't ask

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Speaker 1: for more than that.

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Speaker 2: She wrote about it on every platform. She posted on Instagram, Twitter,

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Speaker 2: like LinkedIn, wherever, Facebook, every single place she posted something

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Speaker 2: so nice when it came out, and it was like, honestly,

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Speaker 2: like my cheeks hurt from smiling. I was like, oh

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Speaker 2: my god, did reason I just become best friends. I'm

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Speaker 2: still working on that part, but yeah, and so it

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Speaker 2: was such a nice boost and like really awesome commentary

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Speaker 2: from folks like that when we first did the story

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Speaker 2: for ESPN, where I think a good little boost to

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Speaker 2: get you know, a book along the way. And so

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Speaker 2: now I'm really excited for everyone to read the bigger,

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Speaker 2: more full story.

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Speaker 1: Hey, she is the Queen of books, so I know

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Speaker 1: kind of endorsement does not hurt. What is your superpower

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Speaker 1: as a storyteller and how do you think it's on

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Speaker 1: display in this book.

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Speaker 2: I would say it's two. I would say one is empathy.

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Speaker 2: I have a real desire to understand why people are

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Speaker 2: the way that they are. And I think as I've

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Speaker 2: gotten older, especially, I've become particularly interested in how people's

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Speaker 2: lives have been different from mine, the pathologies that people

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Speaker 2: get from the family systems in which they grow up,

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Speaker 2: or the interactions that they have with loved ones, friends, lovers, whoever.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a better way to go through life

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Speaker 2: to tell yourself a story about how people got to

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Speaker 2: be who they are instead of just being angry or judgmental.

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Speaker 2: And so, as I get older and I study more

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Speaker 2: about psychology, sociology, all the different things around just kind

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Speaker 2: of why people are who they are, it makes me

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Speaker 2: try to better understand people's choices instead of judging them.

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Speaker 2: And so, particularly in a book like this that has

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Speaker 2: these really complicated ideas of people who are dating, abuse

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Speaker 2: of men, or men with drug problems, people who are

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Speaker 2: struggling to pay the bills or maybe aren't making healthy choices,

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Speaker 2: you can write a book like that and be up

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Speaker 2: high on a hill and say, well, I never struggled

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Speaker 2: with that, so that was a bad choice instead of

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Speaker 2: trying to understand how they got to where they are.

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Speaker 2: So I think the empathy was huge for this one.

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Speaker 2: And then the other one is synthesizing ideas. I use

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Speaker 2: this across all my jobs, podcasting, radio, writing, TV. Essentially,

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Speaker 2: how do I get this thing that I want to

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Speaker 2: say or this thing someone else and put it into

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Speaker 2: the right words to best express it. And for writing,

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Speaker 2: I think, gosh, I should knock on wood. But I

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Speaker 2: just never got writer's block during the book, And I

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Speaker 2: think part of that is like my brain just naturally

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Speaker 2: wants to take ideas and find a way to make

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Speaker 2: them almost fit a puzzle and get across the themes

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Speaker 2: or the stories or the anecdotes that I wanted to

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Speaker 2: make sure we're in there. So I think those two

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Speaker 2: superpowers were super helpful.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll say, and you are the envy of writers

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Speaker 1: everywhere whoever.

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Speaker 2: Probably wringing their hands.

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Speaker 1: Experiencing writer's block right now.

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Speaker 2: It probably jinks myself.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of synthesizing, would you just synthesize the story of

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Speaker 1: Runs in the Family for us?

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Speaker 2: So long story short. Dylan mccullugh is currently the running

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Speaker 2: backs coach for the Las Vegas Raiders. He grew up

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Speaker 2: in Youngstown, Ohio, right after the industrial collapse, so really

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Speaker 2: tough time. There are a lot of people without jobs.

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Speaker 2: Oftentimes he was without electricity or hot water. His family

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Speaker 2: really struggled because his adoptive dad left when he was two,

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Speaker 2: So now he's sort of doubly rejected by father. Figures

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Speaker 2: growing up with a single mom who's trying to make

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Speaker 2: it work for him and his brother Damon. He gets

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Speaker 2: into football, ends up getting recruited by a handful of people,

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Speaker 2: including a Youngstown fellow named Sherman Smith who had made

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Speaker 2: it good at the NFL level, who recruits him to

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Speaker 2: go to Miami, Ohio, breaks a bunch of records, tries

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Speaker 2: to go to the NFL, gets injured, eventually gets into

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Speaker 2: teaching and then coaching, and along the way starts a family.

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Speaker 2: Has four sons, doesn't know anything about his medical history,

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Speaker 2: doesn't know anything of his birth family, but as he

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Speaker 2: gets older with his kids, he decides he's interested, and

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Speaker 2: eventually the laws change in Pennsylvania, where he was born.

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Speaker 2: He can find his birth certificate, finds his mom within

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Speaker 2: like a day on Facebook. She never got married, never

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Speaker 2: had kids. She's been looking for him she's so excited

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Speaker 2: to find him. And now forty five years later, he asks,

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Speaker 2: do you know who my dad is? It's not a

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Speaker 2: my birth certificate, and she tells him and it's someone

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Speaker 2: that's been in his life for almost thirty years. And

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Speaker 2: the dad never knew either because he was never told

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Speaker 2: about the baby. So it's just a really incredible storied,

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Speaker 2: such a feel good story. But also I really wanted

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Speaker 2: to make sure it wasn't just about him. It was

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Speaker 2: a story anybody could find themselves in to try to

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Speaker 2: understand what's passed down via DNA versus what's passed down

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Speaker 2: via family systems, generational trauma, language and messaging, and how

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Speaker 2: we get to decide what do we want to keep

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Speaker 2: with our family, even backwards to our parents. Is that

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Speaker 2: relationship serving us? Is that choice serving us? Or can

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Speaker 2: we decide to change? And how those are interwoven with

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Speaker 2: the things that were genetically handed that we can't choose.

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Speaker 1: Well, you clearly lead with empathy and curiosity, and I

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Speaker 1: think those are sister traits. They go hand in hand,

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Speaker 1: especially in the field of journalism, and in that field

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Speaker 1: you've worked across radio, television, podcasts, writing. What skill came first?

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Speaker 1: Or which one feels most like you at your.

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Speaker 2: Core talking my poor parents, I just happen yeah, but professional? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Or since birth? Actually, it took me a little while

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Speaker 2: to start talking, and then once they did, they were like,

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Speaker 2: holy go. I remember literally, like nine or ten years old,

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Speaker 2: asking my parents if you can get paid to talk

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Speaker 2: for a living, and they were like, no, that's not

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Speaker 2: a job. And I'm like, found one genius.

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Speaker 1: I've been a professional yapper for many years now, and

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Speaker 1: I wish I had had the foresight to just speak

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Speaker 1: it into existence at such a young age. Apparently I

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Speaker 1: manifested it. Look at us now, I know we made

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Speaker 1: it work.

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Speaker 2: But the curiosity aspect too, you know, I've always wanted

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Speaker 2: to do everything, try everything, do everything. I was in

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Speaker 2: band Chorus three, sports Talent Show, went to college, I

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Speaker 2: was a heptatholate, which is literally the track event where

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Speaker 2: you don't pick one thing, you do all seven of them.

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Speaker 2: And then in ESPN and in my career podcast, national radio, writing,

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Speaker 2: producing television, like all the things, and so I think

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Speaker 2: the curiosity to know how to do something and to

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Speaker 2: try it, and then to understand why people are the

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Speaker 2: way they are and get to know them. Those are

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Speaker 2: a part of wanting to be like a journalist and

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Speaker 2: explores stor worries.

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Speaker 1: What is it about challenging yourself in all these different

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Speaker 1: arenas that thrills you? Like why why do you think

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Speaker 1: you do it? And why do you think you go

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Speaker 1: after everything so hard?

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Speaker 2: I have a lot of life fomo. But it's not envy,

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Speaker 2: if that makes a sense. Like I saw an interview

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Speaker 2: with someone the other day and it totally clicked for me,

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Speaker 2: and they said, when I see someone having success at something,

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Speaker 2: I think I would be great at, I have envy.

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Speaker 2: There are plenty of times when I see people doing

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Speaker 2: great things and I'm just happy for them. But if

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Speaker 2: I'm happy for someone and there's a little bit of

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Speaker 2: envy and means it might be meant for me. And

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Speaker 2: I think that's how I felt growing up watching a

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Speaker 2: lot of stuff like oh I think I could do that,

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Speaker 2: and I think I could do it, well, let me

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Speaker 2: try it. But yeah, I mean I think also, I'm

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Speaker 2: pretty fearless. It's interesting. I feel fearless when I'm in control,

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Speaker 2: and the older I get, the more I recognize that

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Speaker 2: I do have issues with control. The first time I

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Speaker 2: do anything, I'm nervous because I'm like, wait, okay, where

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Speaker 2: do I sit? What will the chair look like? Which

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Speaker 2: TVM looking at what's this question going to be? Like?

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Speaker 2: How is this? And then after one time that's it.

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Speaker 2: Not nervous again, Totally fearless, practically naive. Won't even think

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Speaker 2: about the fact that tons of people are watching it,

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Speaker 2: something terrible could go wrong. It just doesn't phaze me.

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Speaker 2: So I think it's a naive fearlessness with like just

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Speaker 2: a little twinge of needing to, you know, settle in.

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Speaker 1: That was a perfect self diagnosis that.

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Speaker 2: You could tell me reading a lot of books for

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Speaker 2: this book about like therapy trauma.

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Speaker 1: And we've got to take a short break, but more

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Speaker 1: from Sarah after the break and we're back with Sarah Spain. So,

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Speaker 1: considering that you have this zest for life and this

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Speaker 1: life fomo, I want to hear what success looked like

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Speaker 1: to you when you were just starting out. So can

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Speaker 1: you take me back to that overachiever, younger version of

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Speaker 1: yourself who just graduated from Cornell where you were co

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Speaker 1: captain of the track and field team and a HATA athlete.

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Speaker 1: What was baby Sarah chasing at that moment in time?

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Speaker 2: Well, Right after Cornell, I was still chasing my first dream,

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Speaker 2: which was most of my life and still you know,

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Speaker 2: in the background, even though it's not realistic at this point,

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Speaker 2: which was to be on Saturday Night Live. My dream

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Speaker 2: was to be an actress and comedian and performer. But

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Speaker 2: because I was doing all the sports and all the things,

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Speaker 2: it was always conflicting with like the school play and

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Speaker 2: other things like that. So I took some acting classes

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Speaker 2: at Cornell, I moved home to save up a little money,

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Speaker 2: and then I moved to La worked in a restaurant.

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Speaker 2: Like every stereotype says, did auditions, did acting classes, did

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Speaker 2: the Second City improv Conservatory. And it wasn't until I

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Speaker 2: took a TV hosting boot camp and the teacher had

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Speaker 2: us focus on something that we are an expert on

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Speaker 2: to practice and I was like, my expertise is like literature.

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Speaker 2: I was an English major, so that's not going to

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Speaker 2: be on a show. So I did a fake Chicago

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Speaker 2: Bears show. I just always been a sports fan and

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Speaker 2: an athlete. And the teacher said, oh, you want to

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Speaker 2: work in sports. It's like, no, there's no women in sports,

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Speaker 2: and I want to be funny and the only women

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Speaker 2: are like supermodels on the sidelines like Aaron Andrews. And

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Speaker 2: she said, well, it just seems natural you could try it.

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Speaker 2: So I took a class in TV sports reporting at UCILI,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, Oh, this is so many things.

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Speaker 2: The writing, the extemporaneous thinking, the interview skills come out

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Speaker 2: of improv my knowledge base having been a three sport

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Speaker 2: athlete my whole life. I always think of that when

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Speaker 2: I consider the fact that literally when they say you

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Speaker 2: can see, if you can see it, you can be it,

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Speaker 2: I never saw it. There were no women doing sports

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Speaker 2: in Chicago growing up, and it was just not really

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Speaker 2: considered an option. I think it's a good quality that

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Speaker 2: I have that I don't have grudges and I don't

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Speaker 2: get stuck in any place. But that also means when

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Speaker 2: I look back, I'm sure I have a much rosier

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Speaker 2: view of like what it was like back then. I

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Speaker 2: think I really thought I had something and I was

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Speaker 2: so terrified no one else thought that too. But I

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Speaker 2: was really insecure about what I look like. I've never

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Speaker 2: been as skinny as most of the people on TV,

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Speaker 2: despite being a heptathlete, Like my body type is just

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Speaker 2: not twig and so I was so worried watching who

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Speaker 2: was making it and thinking, Oh, they really just care

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Speaker 2: about what women look like. So my first job was

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Speaker 2: this fantasy football show that was just like those online

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Speaker 2: pop ups that used to pop up when you would

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Speaker 2: go to a sports site back in the wild wild

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Speaker 2: West of like very misogynist sports blogs, and it was like, Hi,

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Speaker 2: I'm your fantasy sports girl Sarah with this week's fantasy

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Speaker 2: football tips. And I had to wear like cleavage tops,

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Speaker 2: and like that was a big break. I was in

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Speaker 2: like Jim Rome's two million dollar studio with ESPN producers,

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Speaker 2: and that was the only way I could get in,

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Speaker 2: was like doing the stereotypical bs sexy stuff. Meanwhile I

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Speaker 2: was trying to do. I was filming my own fake

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Speaker 2: sketches for my hosting reel that were all like comedic

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Speaker 2: and silly and ridiculous, and I think that was I

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Speaker 2: think if you asked young me, I would never dream

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Speaker 2: of a single thing I've accomplished. And that's what I

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Speaker 2: tell myself every time I get an opportunity and I'm

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Speaker 2: scared to take it, is what I have said. I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna win it Emmy or a Peabody or get to

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Speaker 2: be on TV, or do Around the Horn, or have

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Speaker 2: my own show, or literally anything I've accomplished. I wish

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Speaker 2: I could say I was that kind of dreamer. I

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Speaker 2: always believed I had something, but I don't think I

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Speaker 2: ever was brave enough. I'm very afraid of failure. So

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Speaker 2: if I never say the thing that I want and

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Speaker 2: put it out there, then I never have anyone who

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Speaker 2: could say, you said you wanted this and you didn't

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Speaker 2: get it. You failed. That's so real.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Wait, I have to rewind because there's so much

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Speaker 1: there that I want to unpact so much that you

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Speaker 1: said I want therapy. So this show where you felt

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Speaker 1: like you were hyper sexualized when you were talking about sports.

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Speaker 1: What year was that, Uh, probably two thousand and five

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Speaker 1: because I remember also kind of becoming an on camera

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Speaker 1: personality around that time, and it was a different time

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Speaker 1: then that was really accepted, and that was a way

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Speaker 1: that you could get a foothold in the industry was

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Speaker 1: if you did kind of like a second your spin

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Speaker 1: on content.

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Speaker 2: All the women in my business from that time remember that. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we always had to be like, I'm a guys girl.

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Speaker 2: Most of my best friends are like the only way

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Speaker 2: to be accepted in sports was essential to be like,

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Speaker 2: don't worry, I'm not actually a woman. I'm just a

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Speaker 2: hot chick who's a dude inside. And like I talk

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Speaker 2: about that a lot when it comes to the evolution

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Speaker 2: of women's sports. Yeah, because we don't have to apologize

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Speaker 2: for being different. It's part of the authenticity that people enjoy.

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Speaker 2: And when we stopped having to pretend like we were

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Speaker 2: just like the guys, but you know, women, we got

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Speaker 2: to be funnier and more comfortable and villains and heroes

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Speaker 2: and masculine and feminine and queer and straight and all

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Speaker 2: the multi dimensional things that we let male sports athletes

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Speaker 2: and media be. And it was so restrictive and limiting

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Speaker 2: that it wasn't ajoyable. And then we open up the

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Speaker 2: door to let it be free, and it's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this works.

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Speaker 1: And you hinted at this, but there you've expectations around

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Speaker 1: what a funny woman looks like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, or whether women should be funny, whether women are

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Speaker 2: funny exactly, famous articles from Christopher Hitchins why women aren't funny,

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Speaker 2: And there's a lot of studies of if a woman

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Speaker 2: is attractive, we don't want you to make yourself less

434
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,159
Speaker 2: attractive in order to be funny. Your number one value

435
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,119
Speaker 2: is your looks, and you're trading on that when you

436
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 2: become funny. And I have found that restrictive at every

437
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 2: point in my career. So when I first went back

438
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,480
Speaker 2: to Chicago, I was working for a startup website and

439
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,199
Speaker 2: I brought a ton of my improv stuff to it,

440
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 2: and I was just having fun with player personalities and

441
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,440
Speaker 2: bringing some creativity to it. And it was very hard

442
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 2: to make sure that like, I'm being funny, but never

443
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 2: in any way that could be misconstrued as sexual, because

444
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,280
Speaker 2: people are already pushing all their opinions and their feelings

445
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,199
Speaker 2: of sexuality onto you at every turn, and so at

446
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,680
Speaker 2: every turn you're constantly like kind of trying to look

447
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:55,440
Speaker 2: ahead and be like, oh, what's someone going to say

448
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:56,919
Speaker 2: about this? Or how are they going to perceive this?

449
00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 2: And I was blindsided a million times by something I

450
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 2: did or said that somehow somebody made sexual when that

451
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 2: wasn't my intention, And it really prevents you from being

452
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,160
Speaker 2: creative in so many ways.

453
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 1: I was also blindsided by this perception that you can't

454
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,199
Speaker 1: be smart and funny at the same time, Like I

455
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:19,440
Speaker 1: experienced this in my career as a news journalist. It's

456
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,440
Speaker 1: like people are just incapable of holding space for women

457
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 1: to be more than one thing. And this is something

458
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 1: that I was saying the drum about just embracing our multitudes.

459
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,320
Speaker 2: Couldn't be more true. I used to talk about this

460
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,119
Speaker 2: all the time. It was the idea of like, we

461
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 2: have to put you in one box. Either you're the

462
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:35,879
Speaker 2: hot girl, or you're the funny girl, or you're the

463
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 2: smart girl. And I found that early in my career too,

464
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 2: because I was doing like radio updates that were sort

465
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 2: of light and fun. And then I started working for

466
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 2: espnW and I was covering everything from silly stuff to

467
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,159
Speaker 2: very serious stories about domestic violence and sexual assault. And

468
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 2: I knew how to be in different places as different

469
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 2: versions of myself and to bring the right approach and attitude,

470
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 2: but not everyone else did. And I think for women especially,

471
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 2: there is this feeling of we cannot view you as

472
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 2: anything other than what we decided you are. And your

473
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,159
Speaker 2: point about especially attractive women, I think of someone like

474
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 2: George Clooney's wife, or Michelle Obama, or like people who

475
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 2: are so unbelievably impressive, and instead it's like, but she

476
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:21,959
Speaker 2: looks great in that dress or nice arms.

477
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's never ending, so I think you just

478
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:25,439
Speaker 1: have to tune it out and do you.

479
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, like the Nike ad says you can't win, so

480
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:29,880
Speaker 2: just win, So just win.

481
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 1: Well, I want to get into the ESPN chapter of

482
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: your career, and it starts in this unexpected way because

483
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:39,679
Speaker 1: I hear that you initially auditioned for ESPN and didn't

484
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,679
Speaker 1: get the job right away. I love stories like this.

485
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 1: Can you tell me what happened next?

486
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,640
Speaker 2: Yeah? So I was living in la at the time,

487
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,679
Speaker 2: flew out for the audition, didn't get the job, and

488
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 2: I was wanting to take the next step in my

489
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 2: sports career. Got a job at Fox Sports Net this

490
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 2: is precursor to FS one, and was working behind the scenes,

491
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 2: but started doing those little fan show started writing for

492
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 2: blogs for free just to get some content up, and

493
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 2: started taking auditions and meetings, and I flew back to Chicago.

494
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 2: I took two weeks off to see if do I

495
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:11,919
Speaker 2: want to try to work in Chicago where I know

496
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 2: the team's best because that's where I grew up. And

497
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 2: a friend of mine had a connection at a startup website,

498
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,160
Speaker 2: So I ended up moving back to Chicago to work

499
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 2: for that place, Mouthpiece Sports, And it was from there

500
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 2: that I eventually got started at local ESPN radio, added

501
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,400
Speaker 2: on writing for espnW, working for espnW and then national

502
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 2: radio around the Horn Sports Center. You say all the

503
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 2: other stuff.

504
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, so just like hustling your way in there, getting

505
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 1: a foot in the door.

506
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 3: Yeah.

507
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 1: So you were there for about fifteen years.

508
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I think I'm close to fifteen ish.

509
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're still you're still working with ESPN, just

510
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,880
Speaker 1: in a reduced capacity.

511
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,439
Speaker 2: Yep, working with the espnW, so just focused on the

512
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 2: women's sports stuff, hosting a lot of their conferences and stuff.

513
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: So I'm thinking back to when you gain a foothold

514
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 1: inside and esteemed instant like that. There are moments that

515
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,360
Speaker 1: remind you that all of your hard work was worth it.

516
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,360
Speaker 1: And I can remember jumping from local news to national

517
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 1: news and finally having a fancy coffee machine at the

518
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 1: office and being like, oh, I've really made it. Like

519
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 1: they're paying for my coffee now. This is the best.

520
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: What are the pinchbe moments that you still think about

521
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 1: from your time there, Oh.

522
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,159
Speaker 2: There's a couple. So one was I just wanted to

523
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 2: write on my tax forms sports reporter as my job

524
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 2: instead of you know, like a bunch of other things

525
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 2: or like waitress, because that's where most of the money

526
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 2: was coming from. Like, yeah, I was really excited when

527
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 2: I could just put journalists as my occupation. Another one

528
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 2: was my very first job, which now that I think

529
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 2: about it, it's really not a huge deal, but at

530
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,159
Speaker 2: the time it felt like such a big deal was

531
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 2: the update anchor at ESPN one thousand, which is ESPN Radio,

532
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 2: and so every fifteen to thirty minutes, I would hop

533
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 2: on and be like, hello and welcome to your Sports

534
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 2: Center Update. I'm Sarah Spain. Tonight the Chicago Cubs take

535
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 2: on the Cincinnati Reds Easter. But the thing that made

536
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 2: me like go crazy was the Sports Center music would

537
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 2: play before I started, so it'd go da da da na, Yeah,

538
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 2: this is Sarah's mane with your sports and I was like,

539
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 2: oh my god, it's basically like I'm on Sports Center,

540
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 2: which it wasn't, but it felt like it. And to

541
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,439
Speaker 2: be associated with the brand of ESPN in any way,

542
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I'm doing it. And then you know,

543
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 2: I always called Jamel Hill my fairy career godmother, and

544
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 2: there were a couple great mentors that I've had along

545
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 2: the way, but she in particular. I was at an

546
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 2: espnW summit, which is these three day conferences. I was

547
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 2: a total nobody. I was not involved in the programming

548
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 2: hardly at all. But I had one thing that I

549
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 2: did on stage and Jamel said, you know, you're really

550
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 2: great on stage. You should be doing TV. Why aren't

551
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 2: you doing TV? And I said, well, back at home

552
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 2: in Chicago, I did like a local show, but I

553
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:50,880
Speaker 2: haven't done much for ESPN. I've done one or two

554
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 2: sports center hits and that's it for the Blackhawks, and

555
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 2: I think they're just not ready. They haven't seen enough tape.

556
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 2: And she said, well, next time i'm off with my show,

557
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 2: I'm going to suggest that host. And I was like, okay, sure,

558
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 2: And then about a month or two later, they gave

559
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,479
Speaker 2: me the call. I flew out to Bristol. I hosted

560
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 2: a live hour show with Michael Smith. Used to be

561
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 2: called Numbers Never Lie and then became His and Hers.

562
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 2: And within that one show, Keith Oberman show calls me

563
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 2: outside the lines, calls me I just had to prove myself,

564
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 2: and so that pinched me moment of like somebody saw

565
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,400
Speaker 2: me and thought I could do this, and then put

566
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 2: me on the air and I did. I did a

567
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 2: whole live national TV show. I was like, I can

568
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 2: do this, And so I always think about Jamel and

569
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 2: try to think about how I can be that person

570
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 2: for other people.

571
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 1: That is really really cool. It's so great to hear that,

572
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: and clearly Jamel is a girl's girl, like that's that's

573
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 1: very meaningful when another woman stands in the gap for

574
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 1: you like that. Yeah, were there moments in during those

575
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 1: years where you were getting closer and getting closer where

576
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: you ever questioned what you were doing and felt like

577
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: giving up.

578
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 2: Not in the sports world. I did feel that way

579
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 2: about comedy and acting, particularly because I did not really

580
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 2: enjoy the scene. And you hear about the casting couch,

581
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 2: and it's very true, and unfortunately the sports world is

582
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 2: not a fix for that. I was the victim of

583
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 2: harassment on multiple occasions in the sports world too, But

584
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 2: it felt like there was a more objective way to succeed,

585
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 2: like if you know your stuff, if you get really

586
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 2: good at it, you can succeed in spite of those people.

587
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 2: And so I think with the acting and comedy, I

588
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 2: never felt like I really was cooking with gas. And

589
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 2: then when I started in the sports world, it felt

590
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 2: so natural and it felt like, Oh, you're good at this,

591
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 2: this is where you should be. And so I never

592
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 2: really lost hope or had enough of a drought in

593
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 2: that to think like, oh, this isn't going to work. Okay.

594
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 1: So you're at ESPN for a while and then eventually

595
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: it sounds like something kind of shifted within you, and

596
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: I'm curious how you decided to give yourself permission to

597
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: distance yourself from that original vision of your dream job

598
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 1: and dream a bit differently.

599
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was a little bit of choice

600
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 2: and a lot of a shove. Actually. So I had

601
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 2: been doing national radio in some capacity for thirteen years,

602
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 2: from updates to hosting, and for seven straight years I

603
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 2: was doing nighttime national radio, and I took a ton

604
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 2: of pride in being a woman who was on the

605
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 2: slate which didn't exist other than me in representing for

606
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 2: women in that way. But it was feeling less satisfying.

607
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 2: It was feeling super ephemeral to get on the air

608
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 2: every night for two to three hours and have whatever

609
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 2: I said float away and usually be the biggest hits

610
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 2: of the day. We certainly throughout the various iterations of

611
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 2: my shows, tried to talk about other things, meaningful things,

612
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 2: women's sports, social issues like I really tried to make

613
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 2: the show a lot more than just playing the hits,

614
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 2: But I understood that there were limitations for that medium

615
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 2: in that space, and I had other projects that when

616
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 2: I did them and I put my time and effort

617
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 2: into them, I saw a lot of six with whether

618
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 2: that was the E sixty and the feature reporting I

619
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 2: did for Runs in the Family the First Time, or

620
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 2: a PSA I did called More Than Mean that ended

621
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 2: up winning a bunch of awards, including a Peabody, And

622
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 2: it felt like as long as I had radio every

623
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 2: single night, it was really going to prevent me from

624
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 2: spending time on things and making them great. Part of

625
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 2: radio that's great is it is immediate. You get your

626
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 2: feedback right away, there's a community, you have time to talk.

627
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 2: But it's an imperfect science because it's off the top

628
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 2: of your head. When you really take your time with

629
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 2: a feature, you can edit and turn it into the

630
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 2: piece that you want. And I wanted a little bit

631
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 2: more of that. So I had been talking to the

632
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 2: radio side about trying to get out of radio and

633
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 2: figure out to do more of the other stuff, and

634
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 2: a particular executive there decided he was just going to

635
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 2: have me be gone altogether. And so after thirteen years,

636
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 2: with two weeks notice, after they hadn't responded to a

637
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 2: lot of calls from my agent, he told me they

638
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 2: were just not going to resign me. And after our meeting,

639
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 2: he said he had spoken to them and there wasn't

640
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 2: a lot of interest in keeping me because he said, oh,

641
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 2: without the radio, you don't have much. I said, I

642
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 2: have E sixties Sports Center, my podcast, writing, ESBNW, all

643
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 2: these shows that asked me to do more, and I

644
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 2: haven't had time to do more. I was filling it

645
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 2: at ESPN Daily and some other stuff. And he said,

646
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 2: oh yeah, I called around. There wasn't a lot of interest.

647
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 2: I said, hmm. So I called my bosses. How is

648
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 2: your call with him? They said what call? I said,

649
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 2: that's what I thought, So just you know, I'm not

650
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 2: being re signed and they were furious, and they worked

651
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 2: to find a position for me at the company outside

652
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 2: of his department, but because he oversaw so much of

653
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 2: what I worked on, it really limited what I could do.

654
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 2: So it was a shove that was completely unexpected, and

655
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 2: I think I was very grateful that I had been

656
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 2: hosting a podcast for years, talking to people at times

657
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 2: about their worst times or their unexpected moments much more

658
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 2: severe than me being pushed out of a job that

659
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 2: I still really liked. It was people who suffered catastrophic injuries,

660
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 2: people who lost loved ones, people who are outright fired

661
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:00,959
Speaker 2: and had no I do what to do next? And

662
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 2: I remember in those moments, while interviewing them, I would

663
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 2: ask myself, how would you react to this? And my

664
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 2: very honest answer to myself was terribly. You have been

665
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 2: through nothing. Your life has been privileged. You have been

666
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 2: so lucky in every way, and a lot of that

667
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 2: is good choices you've made and working hard and being kind,

668
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 2: but a lot of it is just luck and the

669
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 2: privilege of mental health from your family and a great upbringing.

670
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 2: And so time to start thinking about how you will react,

671
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 2: because it's not going to be this perfect forever. Something

672
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 2: will happen. And it wasn't cynical and I wasn't waiting

673
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 2: for the other shoe to drop. It just afforded me

674
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 2: the opportunity to think about if something were to change

675
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 2: in this idyllic life I had made. What would I

676
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 2: do about it? And so when that happened, I gave

677
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 2: myself a couple of days to be angry and sad

678
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 2: and feel sorry for myself and scared about what was

679
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,719
Speaker 2: coming next, because ESPN is the top of the mountain.

680
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 2: And then not only did I fight to make sure

681
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 2: I got to go out a little bit more on

682
00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 2: my own, on my own terms by working for another

683
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 2: year in a handful of capacities. And now the last

684
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 2: couple of year or two has spent just espnW, where

685
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 2: I'm still working with people I love working with about

686
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 2: something I care about. But I also took that time

687
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 2: to look at what I wanted and why I was

688
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 2: moving away from radio, what was going to be satisfying.

689
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 2: I think I had always wanted to do a lot

690
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 2: of intersection of sports and social issues because it felt

691
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 2: a little absurd to make a lot of money and

692
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,959
Speaker 2: have a job where I'm just talking about people playing games.

693
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 2: It made me feel guilty almost that people who do good,

694
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 2: meaningful work are working harder, or making less money or

695
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 2: living a less privileged life than someone who's just like

696
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 2: going on TV and being like hell of a dunk

697
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 2: so I always tried to find ways to make it

698
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 2: feel more meaningful. And when this happened, I sat down

699
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 2: and thought, what do I actually want to spend my

700
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 2: time on? And I knew it was women's sports. How

701
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 2: can I use the career I built and the influence

702
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 2: I have on something that feels media and more meaningful

703
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 2: and more genuine to something I've cared about my whole

704
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 2: career and tried to intersect with my whole career. And so, yeah,

705
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 2: I got a shove. I'm doing awesome Ever since that shove.

706
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 2: I would never lie and say that I wouldn't have

707
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 2: been perfectly happy if they'd let me stay on that path.

708
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 2: I think I would have, But things are different at

709
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 2: ESPN now too, and looking at it from a farm,

710
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 2: I'm not sure how happy i'd be if I was

711
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 2: there full time.

712
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,720
Speaker 1: I so respect the transparency with which you told that story,

713
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: because that's that is not easy to be. It is

714
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: not a small thing to be pushed out of a

715
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 1: dream job, and I'm sure it was extremely painful. So

716
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: I just really appreciate your vulnerability around sharing that story.

717
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 2: You've got to be honest. It's not that I was

718
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 2: dishonest when it first happened, I just was more vague

719
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 2: because I was really embarrassed. Like I talked about before,

720
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 2: I'm like terrified of failure. It felt like a failure.

721
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:48,399
Speaker 2: I'd never had that before, and I was so glad.

722
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 2: I had talked to so many successful people who had

723
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 2: had failures or who had been let go or who

724
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:56,399
Speaker 2: had had things not go their way, so I could

725
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 2: not have it be a referendum on me, and frankly,

726
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 2: I knew it wasn't. I was crushing my work. My

727
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,720
Speaker 2: bosses were so angry that this executive had made this decision.

728
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 2: It was not about me. And still I could figure

729
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 2: out how to learn from it and pivot and figure

730
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 2: out what was next in a positive way, and try

731
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 2: to figure out, like, because I'm a creature of habit

732
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 2: and I don't like change because of the whole control thing,

733
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 2: how can I use this shove as an organic way

734
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 2: to move into something new and something like the book

735
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 2: that I've always wanted to do and never had time

736
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 2: for because I had a million jobs at ESPN. How

737
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 2: do I stop procrastinating on something I've said I always

738
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 2: want to do and just like do it, use the

739
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 2: time to do it and so that's what I did.

740
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: Well, that's actually what I wanted to ask you next.

741
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: Do you think that you would have had the courage

742
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 1: to launch your podcast Good Game with Sarah Spain if

743
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: you hadn't been shoved out.

744
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 2: It's certainly one of many nudges I'm getting from the

745
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 2: universe about taking bigger swings and being less afraid to fail.

746
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 2: So as far as the podcast goes, I pitched multiple

747
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 2: women's sports things to ESPN over the course of my

748
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 2: fifteen years. Sometimes they even got all the way to

749
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 2: looking at the budget. How many people would you need

750
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 2: on staff all that stuff. I brought sponsors to the

751
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 2: table that were ready to work on it, and it

752
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 2: just hasn't been a priority for them. And I don't

753
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 2: know if I would get fed up eventually and leave

754
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 2: to do it, or if I would have just been

755
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 2: happy bringing women's sports into as many spaces as I

756
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 2: was because it was scary and I'm still scared of

757
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 2: those leaps, So I don't know if I would have

758
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 2: done that. As for the book, when we did the

759
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:36,839
Speaker 2: story for E sixty and the written piece, movie and book,

760
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 2: people came running when it went viral, and we thought

761
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 2: we'd do the movie first, and then the book, and

762
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 2: then also the publisher that came was fine. The main

763
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 2: one that came was fine, but it wasn't a huge advance.

764
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 2: And we thought, let's do the movie first and then

765
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 2: we'll put the stars of the movie on the book cover.

766
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 2: The book will be bigger, all that stuff. And then

767
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 2: we were pitching the movie during COVID and then during

768
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 2: the strike. So we've sort of been on hold with

769
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 2: the movie for the last four years or so. Now

770
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 2: we're going to re up the pitches with the book.

771
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 2: But I have to tell this quick story. So my

772
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 2: husband and I were in New York at this time.

773
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 2: I was just out we had renegotiated an extra three

774
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 2: months of my contract because I was hosting an event.

775
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 2: I was interviewing the president of the company, like I

776
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 2: had all these jobs that the executive didn't even ask

777
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 2: about before he tried to kick me to the curb,

778
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 2: and we were like, oh, do you want me to

779
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 2: stick around to host this giant conference and interviewed the

780
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 2: president of the company, and or oh you do okay? Cool? Well,

781
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 2: maybe if you'd passed around at all, you would know

782
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 2: I'm sort of booked and busy for your company. But

783
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 2: so I had this couple months that was sort of

784
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 2: like dead weight. I knew I was out, but I

785
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 2: was working. And my husband and I went to the

786
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 2: US Women's National Team Players Association ball in New York,

787
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 2: and we were walking around that day before the event,

788
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 2: and we walked by the New York Public Library and

789
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,879
Speaker 2: everyone raised about how it's got these big, beautiful, fancy rooms.

790
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 2: So we're like, oh, let's pop our heads in. And

791
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 2: we looked into one room and people were diligently working

792
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 2: away in their computers. And I said, oh, I really

793
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 2: missed that, and he's like, well, I'm like, I miss

794
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 2: like having a big project. We're just like right in

795
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 2: all day, sitting with your coffee, like you know. And

796
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 2: he's like, that's crazy. I went to the bathroom. I

797
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 2: checked my phone walking out of the bathroom, and I

798
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 2: see an email from my agent at CAA that says,

799
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 2: the woman who really wanted your book has left for

800
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 2: Simon and Schuster and came back around and wanted to

801
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 2: revisit the idea of writing it. And I said that

802
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 2: to my husband and he's like, there you go. I'm

803
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 2: like what, He's like, there's your project? And I was like,

804
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 2: oh my god, is that what manifesting is? You just

805
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 2: like go take a whiz and come back and the

806
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 2: universe gives you exactly what you said you wanted in

807
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 2: like five minutes. Are you sure that's how it goes? Yeah? Yeah.

808
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 2: And so first of all, I did not have time

809
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,879
Speaker 2: to write a book before. But also it was like, hey,

810
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 2: you are asking the universe for what's next. You are

811
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 2: asking what will feel valuable and meaningful to you. You're

812
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 2: asking what will be satisfying. And you have always wanted

813
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 2: to do this, and this is a project that's right

814
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 2: in your lap. And so I really couldn't even be

815
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 2: afraid of failing. I couldn't even be like, oh, I'm

816
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,359
Speaker 2: not going to do that. It was just I had

817
00:38:59,400 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 2: to do it.

818
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk a little bit about your podcast. But

819
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:09,399
Speaker 1: first a quick break. Your podcast, Good Game with Sarah

820
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,919
Speaker 1: Spain is the very first daily women's sports podcast. I mean,

821
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 1: that's huge. You've also you've won awards from iHeartRadio for

822
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 1: social impact for this show, and you've really taken listeners

823
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: along for the ride as we've seen this surge of

824
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 1: engagement and investment in women's sports. What's one moment from

825
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 1: building good game that made you stop and say, yeah,

826
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 1: this is why we did it.

827
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 2: Well, that's tough. We interview so many people. This show

828
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 2: has been so awesome to have the green light and

829
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 2: the support and the funding and the interest to have

830
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 2: a daily women's sports show that they've sent me to Spain,

831
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 2: the NWSL finals, south By Southwest, the super Bowl, the

832
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 2: Final four, all Star weekend and putting the money in

833
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 2: interest and effort behind the details in women's sports, because

834
00:39:58,320 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 2: I really think that's all we've been missing is giving

835
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 2: people enough information to care. Like we do such a

836
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 2: good job in men's sports of telling you what everybody

837
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 2: fricking ate for lunch, and then in women's sports it's

838
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 2: like here's a highlight, all right, see you later. So

839
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 2: I knew we needed to give people the stories and

840
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 2: stakes and stats and stars so that they could know

841
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 2: enough to want to come watch. And I think the

842
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 2: biggest through line across the former athletes that we've had

843
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 2: on the show, because we have everybody from media to athletes,

844
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 2: to executives to sponsors, but the athletes is especially they're

845
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 2: retired ones. They say, I just wish there was more

846
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,800
Speaker 2: of a connection between owners in front office and the athletes,

847
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 2: because the pyramid in men's sports very clearly puts the

848
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 2: men at the top. They are the product, they are

849
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 2: the value, they are the stars. They are served and

850
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 2: catered to, and they are the product that makes everyone

851
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 2: below in the pyramid money. And on the women's side,

852
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 2: it is still in some ways set up where the

853
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 2: players are somewhere in the middle and they are not

854
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 2: listened to and respected, and they aren't treated the right way,

855
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:57,879
Speaker 2: and they aren't rewarded in the right way. And it's

856
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 2: not just monetarily, but in the setup of their leagues,

857
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 2: in the response to what they're looking for and the

858
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 2: way that they want to be coached and served and led.

859
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 2: And so I love hearing from former players who are

860
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,280
Speaker 2: getting into ownership or front office roles and helping connect

861
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 2: those two sides.

862
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 1: So we are launching a new season of our show,

863
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 1: The bright Side. So the concept of new beginnings is

864
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 1: on my mind. What are three Sarah Spain truths or

865
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 1: beliefs that have gotten you through new beginnings?

866
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Speaker 2: That's an interesting one. Trust myself. I have always had

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Speaker 2: a pretty innate urity that I can trust myself, my

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00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 2: gut instinct, my beliefs, my priorities, my principles. So I'm

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00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 2: always thinking whatever new thing I'm embarking on to consider

870
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 2: and always center in myself and just trusting that I'll

871
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 2: do what's right. Try to be kind to myself and

872
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 2: to others, but especially in our business. It's remarkable how

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Speaker 2: someone I met twenty five years go is back around

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00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 2: in some job or some office or some whatever. And

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Speaker 2: I'm grateful and thankful that I'm always someone who's going

876
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 2: to lead with kindness and hype other people up and

877
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 2: want everyone to succeed. I've never been someone who wants

878
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 2: to compete in life. It's interesting. I'm the most competitive

879
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 2: human alive when it comes to like games or sports,

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00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 2: but when it comes to supporting other people, and I

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00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 2: just want everyone to like crush it and shine and

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00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 2: be awesome. And I love when other people hype me,

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Speaker 2: So I hype other people. You know, I'm very aware

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Speaker 2: of what makes me feel good, and I try to

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00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 2: do that for other people. So be kind, trust my gut,

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00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:46,359
Speaker 2: trust myself, and oh I think for me balance. I

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00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 2: will work twenty four hours a day. If I do

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00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 2: not schedule fun, I am not a good relaxer because

889
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 2: I feel guilty sometimes when I'm relaxing about how I

890
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 2: could be being productive. So the best thing for me

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00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 2: is to be as ambitious about my social life as

892
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 2: I am about my work life, and it comes very naturally.

893
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 2: That's what I want to do anyway. But if I

894
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 2: have a dinner on the books or a concert, or

895
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 2: I throw a lot of costume parties with my friends,

896
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 2: like it gives me some outlet other than work to

897
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:22,720
Speaker 2: put my energy, and I always make sure there's that balance.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes my friends like, why don't you just cancel, go

899
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Speaker 2: home and sleep, And I'm like, no, if I cancel,

900
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 2: I'll feel like I chose work over this, and I

901
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Speaker 2: don't want to make that choice.

902
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 1: I just want to do all of it. Are we

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00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: a little bit of a party animal, Sarah? I'm a

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Speaker 1: retired party animal myself.

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Speaker 2: It's like not partying, it's like socializing, you know what

906
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 2: I mean. Like my husband and I have a lot

907
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,240
Speaker 2: of friends across the country, and when we go somewhere,

908
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 2: we seek all of them out. Like I just went

909
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 2: to la for an Angel City game. Told a bunch

910
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 2: of my friends from when I lived there and friends

911
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:53,919
Speaker 2: from work that I was going to be there, picked

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00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 2: a place and I had like seventeen friends who came

913
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:58,800
Speaker 2: to eat pizza and have beer with me on a

914
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 2: random Thursday because I keep those connections up because it's

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00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 2: really important to me to keep those connections up. That's

916
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Speaker 2: so me.

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Speaker 1: I so relate to this. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So it's like our version of partying is now just

919
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 2: like packing our day with good one on one or

920
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 2: group time.

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Speaker 1: It's grown in sexy partying for me, I can agree

922
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Speaker 1: you will you will not catch me?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't have time to be hungover. No,

924
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 2: so I got to pick my battles.

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00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: Finally, Sarah, what is one area of your life where

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Speaker 1: you're currently experiencing the bright side or what's one area

929
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: of your life where you're looking for the bright side.

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Speaker 2: I would say my optimism is a gift almost all

931
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Speaker 2: the time. I'm incredibly grateful, naturally for everything. I didn't

932
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Speaker 2: even drink till I was a junior in college because

933
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:47,319
Speaker 2: I was like, why would I need to drink. We

934
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 2: get sunsets and dolephints and music and like the world

935
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 2: is the best place. That's right, and then like later

936
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 2: in life. That was part of what I was talking

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00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 2: about earlier, is starting to try to understand why other

938
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 2: people are the way they are and being like, oh,

939
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 2: I get why someone wants to escape or why someone

940
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:03,440
Speaker 2: doesn't think every day is a gift because people have

941
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 2: it hard, and like, don't be judging about that. Don't

942
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 2: pat yourself on the back for having it so easy.

943
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Speaker 2: Start to try to understand other people. But right now,

944
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,720
Speaker 2: my optimism, I think, is at odds with my desire

945
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 2: to be informed, and my control issues are getting in

946
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 2: the way because I feel helpless. Yeah, and my response

947
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 2: to every problem is let me fix that. But this

948
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 2: is not something I can fix exactly. It's hard to

949
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 2: be the fix it person when you can't. Fine, And

950
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,280
Speaker 2: I don't want to bury my head because I'm privileged.

951
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: We'll just know that the work that you're doing is useful,

952
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: so don't forget that.

953
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 2: There's the bright side is at least it feels like

954
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 2: I'm doing good stuff every day. Yeah, one hundred.

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Speaker 1: Well, Sarah Spain, thank you so much for bringing your

956
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 1: multitudes and your life FOMO to the bright side. It

957
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:53,479
Speaker 1: certainly made it bright.

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00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed it. Thanks.

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00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 1: That's it for this week. Join the conversation with us

960
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: on social media. Hello Sunshine, on ig and feel free

961
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 1: to hit me up at Simone Voice. Listen and follow

962
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

963
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,919
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts, and as always, keep looking

964
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 1: on the bright side, y'all. The bright Side is a

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00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 1: production of Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts and is executive

966
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 1: produced by Reese Witherspoon and me Simone Boye. Production is

967
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:27,439
Speaker 1: by Acast Creative Studios. Our producers are Taylor Williamson, Adrian Bain,

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00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: and Darby Masters. Our production assistant is Joya Putnoy. Acast

969
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:36,720
Speaker 1: executive producers are Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Maureen Polo

970
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: and Reese Witherspoon are the executive producers for Hello Sunshine.

971
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 1: Ali Perry is the executive producer for iHeart Podcasts. Tim

972
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 1: Palazola is our showrunner. Our theme song is by Anna

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00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 1: Stump and Hamilton Lightehauser.