WEBVTT - Sci-fi and Speech

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<v Speaker 1>Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to

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<v Speaker 1>Forward Thinking, maybe everyone, and welcome forward Thinking. The podcast

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<v Speaker 1>looks at the future and says, I'll stop the world

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<v Speaker 1>and not with you. I'm John and strictly I'm Lauren

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<v Speaker 1>foc Obama, and I'm Joe McCormick. Today we are launching

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<v Speaker 1>what is hopefully going to become a series of podcasts

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<v Speaker 1>within the Forward Thinking podcast. I think Full of Hope

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<v Speaker 1>is fine because we're the ones who decide so well,

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<v Speaker 1>odds are good. We'll just see if it keeps happening, right,

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<v Speaker 1>that's fair. But here's the basic concept. It's you don't

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<v Speaker 1>see that in sci fi because there are a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of times when we're sitting around having conversations about things

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<v Speaker 1>that seem to us very likely to happen in the future,

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<v Speaker 1>but the majority of science fiction depictions of the future

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<v Speaker 1>don't realize these events. And you guys sort of touched

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<v Speaker 1>on this with the anti gravity or the artificial gravity

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<v Speaker 1>episode rather or the idea that you know in the

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<v Speaker 1>future the sci fi you always see people walking around

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<v Speaker 1>on spacecraft, but really, wouldn't you see a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people floating around most of the time We talked about

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<v Speaker 1>this a lot on the show. Actually, I mean usually

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<v Speaker 1>are our entrance into any given topic is science fiction,

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<v Speaker 1>because that's where most of us experienced the future. Yeah yeah, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean I I often experienced the future, but by

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<v Speaker 1>the time I can talk about it, it's over. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>but if you use the example of artificial gravity, there

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<v Speaker 1>at least there are some technologies we can talk about

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<v Speaker 1>where we'd say, okay, there's some things we have in

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<v Speaker 1>mind that could probably solve the artificial gravity problem just

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<v Speaker 1>by simulating it with centripetal force or something like that.

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<v Speaker 1>But there are other things that we think are are

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<v Speaker 1>pretty sure bets for the future, and you rarely see

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<v Speaker 1>them in sci fi, or at least the majority of

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<v Speaker 1>the time you've don't. And the one we wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about today is the consistency of modern speech and lying,

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<v Speaker 1>which so I want to start y'all out with a quote. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so this is a quote I grabbed from the internet

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<v Speaker 1>by Jean Luke Picard one Captain Jean luc Picard, second

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<v Speaker 1>best Captain of the Enterprise ever. Time to start a fight? Alright, already,

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<v Speaker 1>Pike was the purpose obviously, so the captain of the

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<v Speaker 1>enterprise in the next generation. Once said this, the prime

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<v Speaker 1>directive is not just a set of rules. It is

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<v Speaker 1>a philosophy, and a very correct one. History has proven

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<v Speaker 1>again and again that whenever mankind interferes with a less

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<v Speaker 1>developed civilization, no matter how well intentioned that interference, maybe

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<v Speaker 1>the results are invariably disastrous. What's wrong with that? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>on one hand, he's advocating the prime directive, which I

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<v Speaker 1>think is debatable. Well, fine, but that's a different that's

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<v Speaker 1>a whole other nerd fight. But taking it completely aside,

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<v Speaker 1>the uh, the opinion of the prime directive as advocated

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<v Speaker 1>in Star Trek. You notice how he sounds pretty much

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<v Speaker 1>like how we talk today, except you know, more English. Right, Well, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so he has his own literary style, his own style,

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<v Speaker 1>but he's three years in the future and he's speaking

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<v Speaker 1>like we speak. That's true. That's true. He's using the

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<v Speaker 1>same same terminology that we use. He's using the same

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<v Speaker 1>sentence structure, the same syntax, everything along those lines. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I see, that's highly intelligible to us. It sounds exactly

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<v Speaker 1>like someone like Picard would talk today. Sure, you picked

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<v Speaker 1>one of the Star Trek episodes that was highly intelligible.

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<v Speaker 1>I kind appointed you to a few that aren't. But

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<v Speaker 1>there there are some things that go even farther into

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<v Speaker 1>the future, where you know, they've depicted far future civilizations

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<v Speaker 1>that basically just speak twentieth century English. Or the example

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<v Speaker 1>I polled was Planet of the Apes, very you know,

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<v Speaker 1>classic science fiction film. I'm talking about the Charlton Heston one. Obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>so in the the movie the year that the astronaut

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<v Speaker 1>travels to he's in he's in suspended animation, is traveling

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<v Speaker 1>near the speed of light for I think a year

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<v Speaker 1>and a half and lands on a um what he

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<v Speaker 1>believes it to be an alien planet in what is

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<v Speaker 1>the year three thousand nine eight, but it's actually spoiler

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<v Speaker 1>alert Earth. And you have this whole's cast system of

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<v Speaker 1>apes that have evolved over time. And the guerrillas are

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<v Speaker 1>like the military police, and the orangutans are the politicians,

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<v Speaker 1>chimpanzees with the scientists, and they all speak English. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>they speak English that they the astronaut can understand even

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<v Speaker 1>if it's not English. Let's assume for a moment that

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<v Speaker 1>it's whatever other language it happens to be, but it

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<v Speaker 1>has been translated for us. The audience so we can

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<v Speaker 1>understand it. The fact is, the astronaut can still understand

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<v Speaker 1>what the apes are saying. The language itself has not

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<v Speaker 1>changed in his journey. So even if you give it

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<v Speaker 1>the opportunity of saying, oh, well, it's just so that

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<v Speaker 1>you can understand the story, the characters within it can

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<v Speaker 1>understand each other. So the divine spark exists only in

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<v Speaker 1>Simian brain. Yeah, so, so what what you get there?

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<v Speaker 1>Is this crazy idea that these characters are able to

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<v Speaker 1>communicate despite hundreds of years of separation between them. So

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<v Speaker 1>here's did you grab a doctor? I had to here

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<v Speaker 1>he goes. You are right. I have always known about

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<v Speaker 1>man from the evidence. I believe his wisdom must walk

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<v Speaker 1>hand in hand with his idiocy. His emotions must rule

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<v Speaker 1>his brain. He must be a warlike creature who gives

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<v Speaker 1>battle to everything around him, even himself. Touche Doctor's as

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<v Speaker 1>sounds like a particularly eloquent twentieth century English Charlton Heston

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<v Speaker 1>flies with dirty. Uh. Do we have anything even farther

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<v Speaker 1>ahead than oh? Sure? Yeah? If you want to look

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<v Speaker 1>at the time Machine by H. G. Wells, Do you

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<v Speaker 1>want to talk about super into the future. So, the

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<v Speaker 1>protagonist of the time machine travels to the year eight

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<v Speaker 1>hundred two thousand seven d one. That's crazy, now, flag

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<v Speaker 1>I read that book. I thought that in the book

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<v Speaker 1>they did speak a different line they do in the book,

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<v Speaker 1>in the original in the film from the nineteen sixties,

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<v Speaker 1>right in the book version. The eloy, which are the

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<v Speaker 1>the sort of docile um cattle, spoil her alert in

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<v Speaker 1>the time machine. But they are they are descended from humans.

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<v Speaker 1>Are are great great grandchildren. Ain't too bright? Right, right, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>half of them aren't. The other half of the Morlocks,

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<v Speaker 1>who are all the ones who do all the work,

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<v Speaker 1>and they have been using the eloy as cattle. Essentially

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<v Speaker 1>they eat the eloy. So the Morlocks are the bad

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<v Speaker 1>guys and the Elois are the good guys more or less.

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<v Speaker 1>Kind of Actually, there's a lot of socialist commentary in

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<v Speaker 1>that book. But anyway, so H. G. Wells in his story,

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<v Speaker 1>the Eloi spoke their own language that was unintelligible to

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<v Speaker 1>the protagonist. But in the film, again you have the

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<v Speaker 1>eloy and the protagonists being able to speak to one

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<v Speaker 1>another fluently. So, but you're talking about eight hundred thousand

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<v Speaker 1>years of the future and people are still speaking um.

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<v Speaker 1>Well Es era English. Now, the reason why we're finding

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<v Speaker 1>this so amusing is because all you have to do

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<v Speaker 1>is look backward, look back over time and see the

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<v Speaker 1>historical evolution of English and see how it has changed

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<v Speaker 1>dramatically just in the last thousand years or so, let

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<v Speaker 1>alone eight hundred thousand years into the future. Yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>So we plotted a little journey, a little literary journey

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<v Speaker 1>for you through quotations. Through quotations, so we've started with

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<v Speaker 1>opening lines from literary works uh A hundred, two hundred,

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<v Speaker 1>four hundred years ago. The main thing to keep in mind,

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<v Speaker 1>which we hinted at earlier, is that each of these

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<v Speaker 1>is a different writer with their own literary style. So

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<v Speaker 1>even two writers today aren't going to sound exactly alike.

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<v Speaker 1>But even with that in mind, you're going to really

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<v Speaker 1>notice the differences in a minute here, sure, Okay. So

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<v Speaker 1>the first work that we have was published. It's called

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<v Speaker 1>Unlucky thirteen. It's by James Patterson and Maxine petro Um,

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<v Speaker 1>and we we chose it because it is the at

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<v Speaker 1>the top of the New York Times bestseller list this

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<v Speaker 1>week combined digital and printing one thee list. So so,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, we didn't choose it because it's your favorite book. No,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's but it's a popular work within the culture,

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<v Speaker 1>and so we thought that it would be a good one.

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<v Speaker 1>So so I'm going to quote the first two paragraphs

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<v Speaker 1>their short So I chose too. It was an ugly Monday,

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<v Speaker 1>just afternoon. There had been no sign of sun so far,

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<v Speaker 1>just a thick fog that had put the blocks to

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<v Speaker 1>traffic around the Golden Gate. I was behind the wheel

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<v Speaker 1>of the squad car, and Inspector rich Conklin, my partner

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<v Speaker 1>of many years, was in the seat beside me when

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<v Speaker 1>Claire called my cell phone. Claire Washburn is my closest

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<v Speaker 1>friend and also San Francisco's chief medical examiner. The call

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<v Speaker 1>was strictly business. Alright, alright, so that's that's obviously modern English. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>uh nothing, I've got no qualms about it. Obviously he

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<v Speaker 1>was published this year, so clearly we would have a

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<v Speaker 1>very similar style. Well, what's next. I pulled a quote

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<v Speaker 1>from exactly one hundred years ago, not to this day,

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<v Speaker 1>but to the year nine fourteen, from the short story

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<v Speaker 1>Dracula's Guest by Bram Stoker, which actually do this in

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<v Speaker 1>an English accent. Was No, I'm not going to do it.

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<v Speaker 1>Wouldn't it be an Irish accent? Well, I guess technically

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<v Speaker 1>I could deny yoursh accent. That would be just fine.

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<v Speaker 1>Why don't you read it, Jonathan. This is from the

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<v Speaker 1>short story Dracula's Guest. I think it was originally a

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<v Speaker 1>chapter of Dracula that was removed. Right, well, I'll do this.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll do this in English, because most of the characters

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<v Speaker 1>and in Dracula were actually English, with the exception of

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<v Speaker 1>the title. The character from the title, I hope you

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<v Speaker 1>can pronounce all these words. When we started for our drive,

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<v Speaker 1>the sun was shining brightly on Munich, and the air

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<v Speaker 1>was full of joyousness of early summer. Just as we

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<v Speaker 1>were about to depart here, Dell Brook, the major de

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<v Speaker 1>hotel of the Quatras where I was staying, came down

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<v Speaker 1>bareheaded to the carriage, and, after wishing me a pleasant drive,

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<v Speaker 1>said to the coachman, still holding his hand on the

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<v Speaker 1>handle of the carriage door, Remember you were back by nightfall.

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<v Speaker 1>The sky looks bright, but there is a shiver in

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<v Speaker 1>the north wind, and it says there may be a

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<v Speaker 1>sudden storm. But I'm sure you will not be late here,

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<v Speaker 1>he smiled, and added, well you know what night it is, which,

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<v Speaker 1>of course everybody knows is Walpurchase knocked. Well, obviously night

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<v Speaker 1>all the banners that were up in town. Okay, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so already this is pretty similar, sure, but I mean

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<v Speaker 1>there are a few cultural markers. Like in that first

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<v Speaker 1>passage we were talking about cell phones. There was there

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<v Speaker 1>was the golden gate bridge popped up. It was very clipped.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a little bit more, um, a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>more elaborate in its structure. Yeah, you can also, I

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<v Speaker 1>mean one easy marker is the technological differences. They mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>carriages and coachman and stuff. At The cultural difference that

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<v Speaker 1>I thought was interesting was it says bareheaded, like that's

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<v Speaker 1>a thing worth observing. Specifically, a dude wasn't wearing a hat, right,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean that that would be weird back then but

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<v Speaker 1>normal now. And there's just this, even though it sounds

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<v Speaker 1>pretty similar to modern English, there's a little bit less

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<v Speaker 1>than modern cadence to the pros. It's actually a little

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<v Speaker 1>closer to Sean Lupaccard spoke more like you know, nineteenth

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<v Speaker 1>maybe late eighteenth century character, but with terminology that was

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<v Speaker 1>obviously updated. The sentence structure was much more formal than

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<v Speaker 1>you would find a normal speech. Okay today, Okay, I

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<v Speaker 1>want to go back a hundred years before that, to

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<v Speaker 1>eighteen fourteen, where I pulled the beginning paragraph part of

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<v Speaker 1>the beginning paragraph of Mansfield Park by Jane Austen. Now

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<v Speaker 1>keep in mind again this is Austin's particular literary style.

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<v Speaker 1>But we're definitely going to start getting into some strange

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<v Speaker 1>lands here. Oh, I'll do this one is Jane Austen.

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<v Speaker 1>Um is pretty cool and I'm a lady. About thirty

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<v Speaker 1>years ago, Miss Maria Ward of Huntingdon, with only seven

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<v Speaker 1>thousand pounds, had the good luck to captivate Sir Thomas

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<v Speaker 1>Spectrum of Mansfield Park in the County of Northampton, and

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<v Speaker 1>to be thereby raised to the rank of a baronet's lady,

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<v Speaker 1>with all the comforts and consequences of a handsome house

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<v Speaker 1>and large income. All Huntingdon's exclaimed on the greatness of

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<v Speaker 1>the match, and her uncle the lawyer himself, allowed her

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<v Speaker 1>to be at least three thousand pounds short of any

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<v Speaker 1>equitable claim to it. She had two sisters to be

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<v Speaker 1>benefited by her elevation, and such of their acquaintance as thought,

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<v Speaker 1>Miss Ward and Miss Frances quite as handsome as Miss Maria,

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<v Speaker 1>did not scruple to predict their marrying with almost equal advantage.

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<v Speaker 1>What there's fancy talk. It is fancy talk, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>also I mean people, I don't know. Something was happening

0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:32.959
<v Speaker 1>differently back then. Sentences were happening in a different way. Yeah, yeah,

0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:36.640
<v Speaker 1>well yes, and and syntax and structure and just uh,

0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:40.400
<v Speaker 1>just the culture itself changes over time. That's really what

0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:42.679
<v Speaker 1>we're getting at here. But you know, I don't think

0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:45.320
<v Speaker 1>we've gone back far enough. Ye did not scruple to

0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:48.800
<v Speaker 1>predict their marrying with almost equal advantage. Well, that seems

0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:52.280
<v Speaker 1>pretty normal to me. We gotta go further back, Joe,

0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:53.920
<v Speaker 1>we gotta go further back. You're gonna are you gonna

0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:57.440
<v Speaker 1>make me read? So? The next one I grabbed was

0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:00.800
<v Speaker 1>from six fourteen, that's four hundred years ago this year.

0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:05.319
<v Speaker 1>This is Ben Johnson's comedic play Bartholomew Fair. I did

0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:07.880
<v Speaker 1>a play here because I I couldn't find the full

0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:12.600
<v Speaker 1>text of a good prose work. Well didn't really exist

0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:17.520
<v Speaker 1>as such at that point, well okay, but certainly not

0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:20.400
<v Speaker 1>prominent in the way right. They weren't popularized the way

0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.560
<v Speaker 1>that plays were at the time plays were more likely

0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:25.480
<v Speaker 1>where you're going to get a lot of pros. Right.

0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:29.760
<v Speaker 1>So this is Johnson's Bartholomew Fair, which if a y

0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:35.599
<v Speaker 1>are e, yeah, it certainly is. It opens with the

0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:39.599
<v Speaker 1>character called the stage keeper kind of giving this meta dialogue,

0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:43.240
<v Speaker 1>like talking about the play that's about to happen. So

0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:47.040
<v Speaker 1>here we get gentlemen have a little patience. They are

0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:51.360
<v Speaker 1>in upon coming instantly he that should begin the play,

0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:54.959
<v Speaker 1>master little wit. The proctor has a stitch new fallen

0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:58.560
<v Speaker 1>in his black silk stucking twill be drawn up area

0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:02.360
<v Speaker 1>you can tell twenty He plays one of the arches

0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:05.319
<v Speaker 1>that dwells about the hospital, and he has a very

0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:08.400
<v Speaker 1>pretty part. But for the whole play, will you have

0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:16.480
<v Speaker 1>the truth? On on it? On on it? I am

0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:19.200
<v Speaker 1>looking less to the poet here me or his man

0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:22.360
<v Speaker 1>master broom behind the rs. It is like to be

0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:29.040
<v Speaker 1>a very conceited scurvy one in plain English English. That's

0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:32.520
<v Speaker 1>why I picked that part, which this to me sounds

0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:36.800
<v Speaker 1>like a bizarre mix of modern English and nonsense. It does,

0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.000
<v Speaker 1>it does. And then of course we wanted to go

0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:42.240
<v Speaker 1>back further, and Joe and Lauren wanted to challenge me

0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:45.120
<v Speaker 1>with a little Middle English, Right, so by the time

0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:48.200
<v Speaker 1>you get to like the thirteen hundreds, you are fully

0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:52.120
<v Speaker 1>into Middle English, which is basically a different language. I

0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:57.080
<v Speaker 1>mean it's the predecessor to English. Yeah, and without scholarly

0:14:57.160 --> 0:14:59.960
<v Speaker 1>knowledge of how to like I Joe or I could

0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:04.600
<v Speaker 1>not read this aloud, but Jonathan specific it turns out education. Yeah,

0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:07.720
<v Speaker 1>my my degree was in medieval and Renaissance English literature.

0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:12.520
<v Speaker 1>So please do forgive me if I do stumble at all.

0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.360
<v Speaker 1>It has been about twenty years since I've done this.

0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:18.480
<v Speaker 1>This is the beginning of Jeffrey Chaucer's The Canterbury Tales,

0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:22.760
<v Speaker 1>the prologue one that appeared with a short s the

0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:26.520
<v Speaker 1>draftsro march had passata, rota and bad ditch vain sweetly cool,

0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:29.960
<v Speaker 1>which vetu and ginrich is the floor when zaforas eat

0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:33.560
<v Speaker 1>with a sweeter breath inspired. Hath actually should be in

0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.880
<v Speaker 1>spirit hath in every holt, and heath the tinder cropas

0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:38.920
<v Speaker 1>on the younger zona. Hath in the rams have the

0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:43.560
<v Speaker 1>coasta rouna and smaller fool is marking Melodia that's sleeping

0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.360
<v Speaker 1>on the with open ear, so pricketh him not pure

0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:48.800
<v Speaker 1>in here karage is don long and Folke to go

0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:53.280
<v Speaker 1>on on pilgrimages, and Palmeres vought the second strongest rounders

0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:57.600
<v Speaker 1>to fair in the hallways, cool thin Saundri Landa's especially

0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:01.560
<v Speaker 1>from every sharers Inda of Engleland. The Candoberry they weaned

0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:05.640
<v Speaker 1>the holy blissful mata that them hath hope and one

0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:14.280
<v Speaker 1>that they were sick. And yeah, so so I did

0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:16.480
<v Speaker 1>one day. It should have been thy th h e

0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.480
<v Speaker 1>y was pronounced thy, not they. So I realized that

0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:21.600
<v Speaker 1>after I said, well, we'll give it to you this time,

0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.280
<v Speaker 1>I got it right the second time. So that is

0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:29.320
<v Speaker 1>not easy to do. And and a lot of the

0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:33.360
<v Speaker 1>words are spelled in a way that's similar to modern English,

0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:35.480
<v Speaker 1>but they are pronounced in a very different and we'll

0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:37.360
<v Speaker 1>get into the reason for that and just a little bit.

0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:39.760
<v Speaker 1>But if you go even further back, yeah, say you

0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:43.160
<v Speaker 1>go back from the Canterbury Tales to something like Bayo Wall. Yeah,

0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:46.800
<v Speaker 1>if you go to pre Norman invasion England. So the

0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:51.040
<v Speaker 1>Middle English is that was that that French influence that

0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:54.800
<v Speaker 1>came in and mixed with Old English to form Middle English. Right,

0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:59.200
<v Speaker 1>so before the Normans decided to visit England and stay

0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:03.680
<v Speaker 1>awhile the language was Old English, which comes from Old Frisian,

0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:06.680
<v Speaker 1>which is also the root for Old Germans. So if

0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:08.800
<v Speaker 1>you look at Old English and you start looking at words,

0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:11.159
<v Speaker 1>the words and sent structure look a lot more like

0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:14.399
<v Speaker 1>German than they do Modern English. Um. So one of

0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:17.080
<v Speaker 1>the phrases that my favorite phrase from Beowulf is, and

0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:20.720
<v Speaker 1>it's repeated a few times, is fatwas god kinek, which

0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:24.560
<v Speaker 1>means which means he was a good king. So obviously,

0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:27.400
<v Speaker 1>like it's like it's said quite a few times. Um,

0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:31.680
<v Speaker 1>but yes, fatwas god kinek does not sound at all

0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:36.120
<v Speaker 1>like English. But this is all technically English. And we've

0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:40.240
<v Speaker 1>just seen how from say, I don't know, around seven

0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:44.960
<v Speaker 1>hundred a d. All the way up to modern day

0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:48.920
<v Speaker 1>it has changed dramatically, So why would we not assume

0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:51.640
<v Speaker 1>it would continue to do so. Yeah, if Jean Luc

0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.880
<v Speaker 1>Picard is born in twenty three oh five, according to

0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:58.240
<v Speaker 1>the Star Trek lore, if he's speaking in the middle

0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.080
<v Speaker 1>of the of the undreds, should be like the difference

0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:05.360
<v Speaker 1>between us and somewhere between Jane Austin and Ben Johnson.

0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:07.800
<v Speaker 1>All Right, so here's the question. Now that we know

0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:11.480
<v Speaker 1>that language changes over time, how is it How can

0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:13.320
<v Speaker 1>we predict what language is going to sound like in

0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:15.760
<v Speaker 1>the future. I mean, how does language itself actually change?

0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:20.800
<v Speaker 1>The short answers that nobody knows. Hey, um well, okay,

0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:22.600
<v Speaker 1>it's a really big question, is the thing. And it

0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:26.479
<v Speaker 1>involves genetics and the development of multiple brain structures and

0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:29.920
<v Speaker 1>plasticity of the brain. Also development of speech structures from

0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:31.760
<v Speaker 1>the tongue to the vocal cords, the palette, all that

0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:34.800
<v Speaker 1>kind of stuff, um and then after that the growth

0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:38.240
<v Speaker 1>of systems of vocabulary and grammar. But there are a

0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:41.080
<v Speaker 1>bunch of really cool theories out there, um like like.

0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:43.280
<v Speaker 1>Research out of the University of Reading in two thousand

0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:45.359
<v Speaker 1>and eight, which was done with statistical tools that are

0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:48.879
<v Speaker 1>usually used in biology, indicated that the languages often evolved

0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:52.359
<v Speaker 1>in sudden spurts rather than steadily over time. And okay,

0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:54.320
<v Speaker 1>note that those sudden spurts can take a hundred years

0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:56.400
<v Speaker 1>or more. But but still, this is this is an

0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.280
<v Speaker 1>interesting finding. They they analyzed three of the world's major

0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:03.560
<v Speaker 1>language group, those being bent to Austronesian and Indo European.

0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:07.520
<v Speaker 1>In all three, some third of historical language changes came

0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:11.240
<v Speaker 1>on suddenly when a subculture split off from a larger population. Okay,

0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:13.199
<v Speaker 1>and so that thing you said when they came on

0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:15.240
<v Speaker 1>suddenly though it could take like a hundred years, that

0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:17.800
<v Speaker 1>doesn't mean they happened immediately. It just means the rate

0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:22.399
<v Speaker 1>of change is not constant, so they can slowly change

0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:25.360
<v Speaker 1>and then quickly change. And even so, I mean, when

0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:27.520
<v Speaker 1>you think about it, I mean, languages is one of

0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:32.680
<v Speaker 1>those things that unites the people, right, Yeah, that's yeah.

0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:36.360
<v Speaker 1>Without that common language, obviously you can't have any kind

0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:39.960
<v Speaker 1>of communication whatsoever. And when you can communicate with someone,

0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:43.960
<v Speaker 1>you start to psychologically identify with that person. You think

0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:46.639
<v Speaker 1>this person belongs, at least in some part to a

0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:49.520
<v Speaker 1>group that I also belong to. And when you encounter

0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:52.760
<v Speaker 1>someone who cannot communicate with you and they are not

0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:56.080
<v Speaker 1>able to have that kind of meaningful conversation in any way,

0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:59.280
<v Speaker 1>then you start to think, at least on a psychological level,

0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:01.960
<v Speaker 1>this per and does not belong to the group to

0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:04.720
<v Speaker 1>which I belong. So there are a lot of complicated

0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:09.200
<v Speaker 1>issues here that kind of guide a a language forming

0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:11.800
<v Speaker 1>and then evolving over time. Oh sure. And and part

0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:15.040
<v Speaker 1>of it is that when when a group breaks off

0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:20.000
<v Speaker 1>from a larger group, they maybe not intentionally, but but

0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:25.119
<v Speaker 1>certainly in a way purposefully distinguished themselves by certain language markers.

0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:27.399
<v Speaker 1>You can see that in teenagers who are trying to

0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:30.800
<v Speaker 1>be different from their parents are from when when um

0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:33.400
<v Speaker 1>segments of the British came over to America, they began

0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:37.800
<v Speaker 1>speaking differently, right, And then in some areas, some populations

0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:40.880
<v Speaker 1>of the British coming over to America ended up preserving

0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:44.199
<v Speaker 1>their way of speech a lot more faithfully than others.

0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:47.720
<v Speaker 1>So you will often hear interesting stories about how there

0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:51.760
<v Speaker 1>are pockets of populations in Appalachia, for example, that have

0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:57.320
<v Speaker 1>speech patterns that are more akin to the Elizabethan patterns

0:20:57.320 --> 0:20:59.920
<v Speaker 1>of speech way back when, which to me is fast

0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:03.080
<v Speaker 1>the idea that the proper English we are used to

0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:07.359
<v Speaker 1>hearing from television and movies is not really indicative of

0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:09.880
<v Speaker 1>what you would have heard in Shakespeare's time to hear

0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:11.560
<v Speaker 1>that it might be better for you to take a

0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:15.160
<v Speaker 1>trip to the to the mountains, the Ridge mountains. Yeah,

0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:17.760
<v Speaker 1>and even if it's not such a such a large

0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:22.280
<v Speaker 1>scale populational kind of thing, I mean, okay, So so

0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:25.320
<v Speaker 1>the exact role of all of these components of speech

0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:28.639
<v Speaker 1>are definitely in debate among among linguists and biologists and

0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:32.320
<v Speaker 1>psychologists and anthropologists and lots of other fields of study.

0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:35.600
<v Speaker 1>But you know, it's obvious to even the casual observer

0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:39.520
<v Speaker 1>that that vocab and grammar do change over time and

0:21:39.520 --> 0:21:42.240
<v Speaker 1>and are prompted by by cultural events. Even if they're

0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:44.359
<v Speaker 1>not this kind of break off event, it could be

0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:47.480
<v Speaker 1>a change in technology, wherein new words come into the

0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:52.160
<v Speaker 1>vocabulary and um, you know, new new sentence structures happen

0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:56.800
<v Speaker 1>because internet. Um, because internet is a good way of

0:21:57.000 --> 0:22:00.159
<v Speaker 1>putting that or or or just just locational and just

0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:03.680
<v Speaker 1>stuff like that. And um so, I mean, the generalized

0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:06.640
<v Speaker 1>theory is is that the you know, any current generation

0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:09.399
<v Speaker 1>of speakers will internalize the language that they were taught

0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:12.480
<v Speaker 1>and perhaps differently than the previous generation expects them to,

0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:15.800
<v Speaker 1>and also adopt new words, new structures, new sounds, and

0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:19.680
<v Speaker 1>then transmit them, perhaps shoddily, to the next generation. And

0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:24.720
<v Speaker 1>it's interesting in English, the way we generally see acceptance

0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:28.640
<v Speaker 1>on a larger scale is when we have certain institutions

0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:32.600
<v Speaker 1>acknowledge words as being actual words. Oh yeah, you always

0:22:32.600 --> 0:22:35.600
<v Speaker 1>see these news stories they you know, websters add so

0:22:35.640 --> 0:22:38.560
<v Speaker 1>and so to the dictionary. Although that's Oxford, that's that's

0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:42.320
<v Speaker 1>that's really more pr ploy than than the physical indicator

0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:47.000
<v Speaker 1>that the language is Yeah, exactly, remove you remove that

0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:49.840
<v Speaker 1>pr ploy by a couple of generations, and it's now

0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:53.359
<v Speaker 1>become part of the unofficial documented record. Now, yet it

0:22:53.359 --> 0:22:55.679
<v Speaker 1>does still matter. I'm just get snark. But there are

0:22:55.720 --> 0:22:59.520
<v Speaker 1>countries like their countries like France that actively try to

0:22:59.600 --> 0:23:04.800
<v Speaker 1>protect the native language and try and keep new uh

0:23:05.080 --> 0:23:07.960
<v Speaker 1>anglicanized words out of it. They don't want. So there's

0:23:07.960 --> 0:23:11.040
<v Speaker 1>no less fell they don't. They don't, they're not really

0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:14.120
<v Speaker 1>they're not really pleased with LA C D for example,

0:23:14.359 --> 0:23:16.520
<v Speaker 1>or C say day, I should say well, and and

0:23:16.520 --> 0:23:18.760
<v Speaker 1>in some languages, like in Japanese for example, there's a

0:23:18.760 --> 0:23:21.560
<v Speaker 1>whole separate alphabet for foreign loan words and in which

0:23:21.640 --> 0:23:26.240
<v Speaker 1>you you preserve the the original language by by voisting

0:23:26.240 --> 0:23:28.480
<v Speaker 1>off these new words onto a different alphabet. That makes

0:23:28.480 --> 0:23:33.280
<v Speaker 1>it intrinsically other. Right, So that's interesting. I want to

0:23:33.280 --> 0:23:37.520
<v Speaker 1>talk an even more basic level though, about how language changes,

0:23:37.600 --> 0:23:42.800
<v Speaker 1>because it's not just these macro changes where overall vocabulary change.

0:23:42.840 --> 0:23:45.080
<v Speaker 1>So we we we do get new words, yeah, and

0:23:45.200 --> 0:23:47.880
<v Speaker 1>old words go out of style, and there's a sort

0:23:47.920 --> 0:23:51.480
<v Speaker 1>of way of changing the cadence of sentences, certain ways

0:23:51.520 --> 0:23:53.960
<v Speaker 1>of phrasing things go in and out of style, but

0:23:54.119 --> 0:23:58.240
<v Speaker 1>at the micro level, even the pronunciation of the different

0:23:58.400 --> 0:24:02.520
<v Speaker 1>phonemes in a language, different units of sound can change

0:24:02.600 --> 0:24:05.280
<v Speaker 1>over time. So the one example I want to refer

0:24:05.320 --> 0:24:08.320
<v Speaker 1>to again is in English because we're English speakers here.

0:24:08.680 --> 0:24:11.560
<v Speaker 1>It was called the Great vowel Shift. And this happened

0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:14.800
<v Speaker 1>over the middle of the past millennium, so over many

0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:19.719
<v Speaker 1>hundreds of years, but it centered around probably like sixte centuries.

0:24:21.000 --> 0:24:23.919
<v Speaker 1>And this is the process by which long vowels in

0:24:24.000 --> 0:24:28.200
<v Speaker 1>English actually changed their sound. They used to sound more

0:24:28.240 --> 0:24:31.919
<v Speaker 1>like they sound in a Latin pronunciation. So for example,

0:24:32.000 --> 0:24:36.000
<v Speaker 1>the letter E would sound like an a sound. So

0:24:36.040 --> 0:24:38.159
<v Speaker 1>I guess if you wanted to get on Middle English

0:24:38.240 --> 0:24:41.760
<v Speaker 1>Twitter and compose a tweet about a sheet, you would

0:24:41.760 --> 0:24:48.840
<v Speaker 1>actually compose a tweet about a shade often and another example,

0:24:54.760 --> 0:24:59.000
<v Speaker 1>because yeah, that's that's exactly the other one. So Twitter

0:24:59.200 --> 0:25:01.879
<v Speaker 1>would be tweet because the letter I used to be

0:25:01.920 --> 0:25:05.800
<v Speaker 1>pronounced more like E. So the word mice that we

0:25:05.880 --> 0:25:08.639
<v Speaker 1>say mice, now that's spelled the same way in Middle English,

0:25:08.680 --> 0:25:11.679
<v Speaker 1>that be mes. Well, and when I did the prologue

0:25:11.720 --> 0:25:16.280
<v Speaker 1>one that April April would became April because you have

0:25:16.440 --> 0:25:20.600
<v Speaker 1>that I that becomes the e sound. So yeah, it's

0:25:20.640 --> 0:25:25.560
<v Speaker 1>amazing that this transformation happened, and that linguists still are

0:25:25.880 --> 0:25:31.159
<v Speaker 1>kind of wondering what exactly prompted that shift, because you know,

0:25:31.280 --> 0:25:33.480
<v Speaker 1>you thought that a lot of the changes in the

0:25:33.480 --> 0:25:37.920
<v Speaker 1>English pronunciation happened due to the various invasions that occurred,

0:25:37.960 --> 0:25:40.119
<v Speaker 1>but that all happened, that was all, you know, pretty

0:25:40.200 --> 0:25:41.800
<v Speaker 1>much over and done without by the end of the

0:25:41.800 --> 0:25:44.680
<v Speaker 1>twelfth century, beginning of thirteenth century. So yeah, I would

0:25:44.680 --> 0:25:47.119
<v Speaker 1>guess that that was printing press related, as a lot

0:25:47.200 --> 0:25:53.400
<v Speaker 1>of changes in language were from the four hundredsberg you scamp. Well,

0:25:53.520 --> 0:25:55.119
<v Speaker 1>before we get to the printing press, I want to

0:25:55.160 --> 0:25:58.520
<v Speaker 1>talk about the fact that, in fact, pronunciation can still

0:25:58.640 --> 0:26:01.520
<v Speaker 1>change today. Yeah, and has been observed to do so.

0:26:01.720 --> 0:26:05.480
<v Speaker 1>So are there major changes in English pronunciation of vowel

0:26:05.560 --> 0:26:08.600
<v Speaker 1>sounds today? We'll actually read a really interesting article in

0:26:08.720 --> 0:26:12.600
<v Speaker 1>Slate about what's called the Northern Cities vowel shift. So

0:26:12.760 --> 0:26:14.600
<v Speaker 1>this is in the United States and it was first

0:26:14.640 --> 0:26:17.800
<v Speaker 1>noticed in the nineteen sixties, and this is a subsequent

0:26:17.960 --> 0:26:21.360
<v Speaker 1>vowelshift coming after the Great Vowelshift, but this is affecting

0:26:21.480 --> 0:26:25.280
<v Speaker 1>the pronunciation of short vowels rather than long vowels. Well,

0:26:25.359 --> 0:26:30.280
<v Speaker 1>you can certainly there are enough preserved recordings that if

0:26:30.359 --> 0:26:32.439
<v Speaker 1>you listen to something and you call it old timey,

0:26:32.560 --> 0:26:34.960
<v Speaker 1>it's partly because of the way people were speaking, in

0:26:35.000 --> 0:26:38.520
<v Speaker 1>the way they're pronouncing pronouncing things. So or even if

0:26:38.520 --> 0:26:41.480
<v Speaker 1>you're watching a movie where a character is is portraying someone,

0:26:41.720 --> 0:26:44.399
<v Speaker 1>I think of the hudsucker proxy all the time, you know,

0:26:44.720 --> 0:26:47.000
<v Speaker 1>anything along those lines, but everyone stops talking like this,

0:26:47.160 --> 0:26:49.080
<v Speaker 1>you know, and there's all in that fast paced and

0:26:49.160 --> 0:26:52.760
<v Speaker 1>it's all it's a different vowel sound than what you're

0:26:52.800 --> 0:26:55.080
<v Speaker 1>used doing. Even if you're in whatever part of the

0:26:55.119 --> 0:26:58.800
<v Speaker 1>country the the film or television or radio program was

0:26:58.840 --> 0:27:02.159
<v Speaker 1>set in, it's it doesn't sound the same way, and

0:27:02.240 --> 0:27:04.320
<v Speaker 1>people will call it, well, that's old tiny And part

0:27:04.359 --> 0:27:07.600
<v Speaker 1>of this because we have had these smaller vowel shifts

0:27:07.640 --> 0:27:09.720
<v Speaker 1>happen over time, right, I mean, they can just be

0:27:09.840 --> 0:27:13.240
<v Speaker 1>part of the normal way that a dialect forms within

0:27:13.320 --> 0:27:16.440
<v Speaker 1>it's a subdialect of a language. So you you have yea,

0:27:16.680 --> 0:27:21.479
<v Speaker 1>and then you have yeah, and then you have yeah. Right,

0:27:21.680 --> 0:27:23.440
<v Speaker 1>And I would I would suspect I don't have any

0:27:23.520 --> 0:27:26.640
<v Speaker 1>research on this, but that that that great Northern vowel

0:27:26.680 --> 0:27:29.760
<v Speaker 1>shift had to do in fact with television. I mean,

0:27:29.840 --> 0:27:34.480
<v Speaker 1>mass media definitely has an effect on how we talk. Yeah,

0:27:34.560 --> 0:27:37.120
<v Speaker 1>it has an effect, except I don't know which way

0:27:37.160 --> 0:27:40.240
<v Speaker 1>the effect would go. So we if we look into

0:27:40.280 --> 0:27:43.400
<v Speaker 1>the past, we say, okay, we can observe that language

0:27:43.440 --> 0:27:47.080
<v Speaker 1>evolves like this, but they didn't have TV and radio

0:27:47.320 --> 0:27:49.960
<v Speaker 1>and the internet. And now that we have these things,

0:27:50.080 --> 0:27:53.399
<v Speaker 1>I wonder if does that really affect the rate at

0:27:53.440 --> 0:27:56.320
<v Speaker 1>which language changes, And if it does, does it speed

0:27:56.400 --> 0:27:58.720
<v Speaker 1>it up or slow it down? I could see good

0:27:58.880 --> 0:28:01.440
<v Speaker 1>arguments for both. Well, And here's the thing is that,

0:28:01.880 --> 0:28:05.320
<v Speaker 1>because we're talking about even speedy changes in language taking

0:28:06.040 --> 0:28:08.560
<v Speaker 1>course over a century, there's no way for us to

0:28:08.600 --> 0:28:11.720
<v Speaker 1>answer that question without dramatically extending our lifespan so that

0:28:11.840 --> 0:28:14.640
<v Speaker 1>we can actually observe it happen. Right, these are all

0:28:14.680 --> 0:28:17.800
<v Speaker 1>things that are happening generationally, and by the time you

0:28:17.920 --> 0:28:20.720
<v Speaker 1>get to a point where you start wondering about these questions,

0:28:20.760 --> 0:28:24.680
<v Speaker 1>you don't have anyone to ask. Well, but but these days,

0:28:24.720 --> 0:28:27.679
<v Speaker 1>we're going to have much more of a verbal record

0:28:27.840 --> 0:28:30.480
<v Speaker 1>of how people spoke a hundred years from now, and

0:28:30.600 --> 0:28:32.680
<v Speaker 1>and we'll be able to chart a lot more carefully,

0:28:32.840 --> 0:28:37.919
<v Speaker 1>especially through algorithmic investigation how exactly people were speaking at

0:28:37.960 --> 0:28:40.880
<v Speaker 1>different points in time and in different areas. UM. I'd

0:28:40.960 --> 0:28:42.920
<v Speaker 1>argue that that an early form of mass media, the

0:28:42.960 --> 0:28:47.120
<v Speaker 1>aforementioned printing press, uh, certainly had a a very large

0:28:47.200 --> 0:28:50.600
<v Speaker 1>and very quick effect on language relatively. I mean, I mean,

0:28:50.640 --> 0:28:55.000
<v Speaker 1>it didn't standardize any language instantaneously, but it did condense

0:28:55.120 --> 0:28:59.680
<v Speaker 1>dialects and word you specifically among populations as as literacy

0:29:00.040 --> 0:29:02.560
<v Speaker 1>and up I mean, you know, charitably over the course

0:29:02.600 --> 0:29:04.920
<v Speaker 1>of a couple of centuries, which is again quick as

0:29:05.120 --> 0:29:10.440
<v Speaker 1>standardized spelling right right, well again slowly, but yeah, definitely um.

0:29:10.720 --> 0:29:14.920
<v Speaker 1>And And similarly that the Internet today is bringing written

0:29:15.000 --> 0:29:19.200
<v Speaker 1>works and an authorship, perhaps more importantly, to ever wider audiences.

0:29:19.280 --> 0:29:21.920
<v Speaker 1>And you know, okay, so this will definitely change language.

0:29:22.000 --> 0:29:24.720
<v Speaker 1>As Joe said, it's it's kind of up in the

0:29:24.800 --> 0:29:27.080
<v Speaker 1>air exactly how it's going to do that, right? Does

0:29:27.120 --> 0:29:29.800
<v Speaker 1>it Does it get everybody on the same page and

0:29:30.000 --> 0:29:33.760
<v Speaker 1>keep them there better or does it introduce more new

0:29:33.960 --> 0:29:38.080
<v Speaker 1>usage faster some some researchers are suggesting that it's going

0:29:38.120 --> 0:29:40.960
<v Speaker 1>to cause some languages to die out um, while others

0:29:41.040 --> 0:29:44.000
<v Speaker 1>either develop in their place or grow to dominate there's

0:29:44.040 --> 0:29:45.880
<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of theory that that English in the

0:29:45.920 --> 0:29:48.200
<v Speaker 1>next hundred years or two is is going to be

0:29:49.200 --> 0:29:53.400
<v Speaker 1>by by far the world's dominant language, although okay, maybe

0:29:53.440 --> 0:29:55.760
<v Speaker 1>not English the way that we understand it today, because

0:29:56.600 --> 0:29:59.400
<v Speaker 1>similar to how like Creole or Yiddish developed out of

0:29:59.480 --> 0:30:02.920
<v Speaker 1>combine cultures and languages, we're currently seeing a huge burst

0:30:03.000 --> 0:30:06.160
<v Speaker 1>of media being presented in what's called Hinglish, which is

0:30:06.240 --> 0:30:10.680
<v Speaker 1>a combination of Hindi, Punjabi, Urdu and English spoken primarily

0:30:10.840 --> 0:30:13.960
<v Speaker 1>in India, but it's important and wind spread enough that

0:30:14.040 --> 0:30:17.160
<v Speaker 1>some British diplomats are learning it. India, as I understand,

0:30:17.200 --> 0:30:20.120
<v Speaker 1>it has quite the population. That does make sense, alright,

0:30:20.160 --> 0:30:23.640
<v Speaker 1>So we started this whole discussion talking about science fiction films,

0:30:23.840 --> 0:30:26.520
<v Speaker 1>television series, radio programs, that sort of thing where the

0:30:26.640 --> 0:30:29.400
<v Speaker 1>characters speak more or less in modern English, and whether

0:30:29.520 --> 0:30:32.800
<v Speaker 1>or not that's for the convenience of the audiences. That's

0:30:32.840 --> 0:30:35.320
<v Speaker 1>a matter of debate because that could come into it.

0:30:35.440 --> 0:30:38.800
<v Speaker 1>But are there do we have any examples of books

0:30:38.920 --> 0:30:42.120
<v Speaker 1>where that's not the case, where we have an evolution

0:30:42.200 --> 0:30:46.000
<v Speaker 1>of language. Well, certainly there are lots of small scale examples,

0:30:46.080 --> 0:30:48.280
<v Speaker 1>but I was trying to think of a book taking

0:30:48.320 --> 0:30:51.360
<v Speaker 1>place in the future where the language that the characters

0:30:51.360 --> 0:30:54.440
<v Speaker 1>speak is radically different. And I did come up with

0:30:54.600 --> 0:30:58.000
<v Speaker 1>one example, which is a clockwork orange by Anthony Burgess.

0:30:58.560 --> 0:31:01.480
<v Speaker 1>So the main characters in this novel are these brutal,

0:31:01.720 --> 0:31:06.160
<v Speaker 1>hyper violent, cruel gangster thugs, and they speak in this

0:31:06.520 --> 0:31:12.680
<v Speaker 1>very stylized, very highly different form of English. Set. Yeah,

0:31:12.760 --> 0:31:16.800
<v Speaker 1>they're still basically using English syntax, sort of like as

0:31:16.880 --> 0:31:20.880
<v Speaker 1>an English reader you can make sense of it referencing

0:31:21.160 --> 0:31:25.600
<v Speaker 1>a glossary. But they use all kinds of slang. It's

0:31:25.680 --> 0:31:29.160
<v Speaker 1>just rife with slang that we don't use today. Do

0:31:29.200 --> 0:31:32.240
<v Speaker 1>you want to do a line real quick? Al right, sure? Yeah.

0:31:32.440 --> 0:31:34.920
<v Speaker 1>There was me that is Alex, and my three Drews

0:31:35.000 --> 0:31:37.240
<v Speaker 1>as Pete, Georgie and Dim Dim being really dim. We

0:31:37.320 --> 0:31:39.040
<v Speaker 1>were making up our razor ducks what to do with

0:31:39.080 --> 0:31:41.600
<v Speaker 1>the evening. I shouldn't do all this line because there's

0:31:41.640 --> 0:31:43.200
<v Speaker 1>so many words that I would need to bleep out.

0:31:43.600 --> 0:31:47.240
<v Speaker 1>Um I could do that. It was a milk plus mesto,

0:31:47.320 --> 0:31:49.560
<v Speaker 1>and you mail, my brother's forgotten what these mestos arelike

0:31:49.600 --> 0:31:51.840
<v Speaker 1>things changing the story these days and people quick to forget.

0:31:51.920 --> 0:31:53.720
<v Speaker 1>But it was a place where you could peet milk

0:31:53.880 --> 0:31:55.400
<v Speaker 1>with something else in it. You could peet it with

0:31:55.480 --> 0:31:59.320
<v Speaker 1>knives in it, or synth masko drim com. Yeah, it's so.

0:31:59.480 --> 0:32:03.640
<v Speaker 1>So you get a mixture of Russian slang because that's

0:32:03.640 --> 0:32:05.520
<v Speaker 1>a big influence. A lot of it comes from Russia.

0:32:05.600 --> 0:32:07.720
<v Speaker 1>If it comes from Russian. Uh. Some of it is

0:32:07.920 --> 0:32:11.880
<v Speaker 1>this sort of what we've had culture or technobabble kind

0:32:11.920 --> 0:32:13.840
<v Speaker 1>of stuff, because like you get the you get the

0:32:13.920 --> 0:32:16.840
<v Speaker 1>scent mesk, this kind of thing where synthetic mescaline is

0:32:16.960 --> 0:32:19.680
<v Speaker 1>essentially what that means. So you get these these terms

0:32:19.760 --> 0:32:21.600
<v Speaker 1>that are all sort of slangish. And of course the

0:32:21.680 --> 0:32:24.520
<v Speaker 1>main characters are teenagers, so they speak very heavily and

0:32:24.600 --> 0:32:27.360
<v Speaker 1>slang um and some of the some of the sentences

0:32:27.520 --> 0:32:30.800
<v Speaker 1>are are absolutely beautiful and poetic. But it requires you

0:32:30.880 --> 0:32:33.280
<v Speaker 1>to look at that glossary like eight times. And so

0:32:33.480 --> 0:32:38.360
<v Speaker 1>I think that this slang vocabulary that Burgess uses in

0:32:38.440 --> 0:32:41.280
<v Speaker 1>this novel is really great for two reasons. Number one,

0:32:41.320 --> 0:32:44.120
<v Speaker 1>it actually does reflect how languages change over time with

0:32:44.200 --> 0:32:47.680
<v Speaker 1>the introduction of new vocabulary and speech patterns. But number two,

0:32:47.760 --> 0:32:49.960
<v Speaker 1>it actually has a role in the novel itself, because,

0:32:50.000 --> 0:32:52.800
<v Speaker 1>as I said, these characters are just awful evil dudes,

0:32:53.320 --> 0:32:56.480
<v Speaker 1>and the words they use help speak to the transformative

0:32:56.560 --> 0:33:00.360
<v Speaker 1>psychological power of language, because it's very easy to see

0:33:00.400 --> 0:33:04.360
<v Speaker 1>how the very words they're saying, the gang members use

0:33:04.440 --> 0:33:09.400
<v Speaker 1>these words to desensitize themselves to violence. Well, you know,

0:33:09.520 --> 0:33:12.480
<v Speaker 1>there are other examples as well. I think the interesting

0:33:12.600 --> 0:33:15.520
<v Speaker 1>thing here is uh, like you say, in this case,

0:33:15.600 --> 0:33:19.080
<v Speaker 1>it was a very calculated um decision on the part

0:33:19.120 --> 0:33:24.440
<v Speaker 1>of Burgess to create a language that reflects the personalities

0:33:24.840 --> 0:33:28.040
<v Speaker 1>and psyches of these these main characters. You do have

0:33:28.120 --> 0:33:30.320
<v Speaker 1>other characters in the book who do not speak in

0:33:30.400 --> 0:33:33.680
<v Speaker 1>this kind of slang. They're the adults. But that that

0:33:33.840 --> 0:33:36.480
<v Speaker 1>also gives you that whole other separation as well that

0:33:36.560 --> 0:33:39.720
<v Speaker 1>we were talking about, right, sure, and right, And there

0:33:39.760 --> 0:33:42.400
<v Speaker 1>are plenty of works that, on a very small scale level,

0:33:42.480 --> 0:33:44.720
<v Speaker 1>will give you a couple of new words or usages

0:33:44.840 --> 0:33:47.280
<v Speaker 1>of words here, and they're like like rock from Stranger

0:33:47.360 --> 0:33:49.800
<v Speaker 1>in a Strange Land, or green from the Fifth Element,

0:33:49.960 --> 0:33:56.880
<v Speaker 1>or shiny from Firefly. Um, but but I would it's

0:33:56.920 --> 0:34:01.000
<v Speaker 1>shiny super green, Um, so I it. I would argue

0:34:01.040 --> 0:34:03.520
<v Speaker 1>that that technobabble is a little bit of a separate

0:34:03.600 --> 0:34:06.680
<v Speaker 1>thing because it's it's vocab that's you know specifically about

0:34:06.800 --> 0:34:09.080
<v Speaker 1>technology that doesn't exist, and so it's really more of

0:34:09.120 --> 0:34:12.200
<v Speaker 1>a plot point, um than a linguistic device. Most of

0:34:12.239 --> 0:34:14.680
<v Speaker 1>the time. It can be there in order to give

0:34:14.840 --> 0:34:18.280
<v Speaker 1>a sense of quote unquote legitimacy to the science fiction,

0:34:18.360 --> 0:34:22.320
<v Speaker 1>to make it sound more technically advanced than what we

0:34:22.400 --> 0:34:24.480
<v Speaker 1>currently have, and you have to be somewhat invented to

0:34:24.520 --> 0:34:26.920
<v Speaker 1>do that, because obviously, you know, you can't just have

0:34:27.080 --> 0:34:30.040
<v Speaker 1>all the same technology we have today and and put

0:34:30.080 --> 0:34:32.200
<v Speaker 1>it forward a thousand years and expect people to think

0:34:32.280 --> 0:34:34.960
<v Speaker 1>that that's an amazing science fiction novel. Right. I think

0:34:35.000 --> 0:34:38.080
<v Speaker 1>I totally agree with you that just having the name

0:34:38.360 --> 0:34:40.759
<v Speaker 1>of a piece of technology in there that we don't

0:34:40.800 --> 0:34:43.480
<v Speaker 1>have that technology today, it doesn't really represent a change

0:34:43.520 --> 0:34:46.840
<v Speaker 1>in language, but it can depending on the level to

0:34:46.880 --> 0:34:50.480
<v Speaker 1>which the technobabble is incorporated into the everyday language of

0:34:50.480 --> 0:34:53.080
<v Speaker 1>the characters. So, like I'd say, there's a difference between

0:34:53.200 --> 0:34:55.600
<v Speaker 1>just making a one off reference to a technology that

0:34:55.680 --> 0:34:59.759
<v Speaker 1>doesn't exist and the way, for example, Facebook talk has

0:34:59.840 --> 0:35:02.960
<v Speaker 1>been in incorporated into the very fabric of how we

0:35:03.040 --> 0:35:05.560
<v Speaker 1>discuss our social lives, or even the fact that we

0:35:05.640 --> 0:35:07.840
<v Speaker 1>can look back in the past and what once was

0:35:08.120 --> 0:35:11.520
<v Speaker 1>a version of techno babble has become an actual word now,

0:35:11.640 --> 0:35:15.080
<v Speaker 1>So for example, robot um. It's not not something that

0:35:15.120 --> 0:35:18.279
<v Speaker 1>happens all the time. It's actually very rare when something

0:35:18.360 --> 0:35:20.520
<v Speaker 1>like that happens. But when it does happen, it's interesting

0:35:20.600 --> 0:35:24.680
<v Speaker 1>to see something that was was taken as as an innovative.

0:35:25.080 --> 0:35:26.759
<v Speaker 1>You know, this is a new word, or at least

0:35:26.800 --> 0:35:29.120
<v Speaker 1>a word that's being used in a new way, uh,

0:35:29.440 --> 0:35:32.400
<v Speaker 1>and and ends up being adopted worldwide. That's kind of

0:35:32.440 --> 0:35:35.080
<v Speaker 1>interesting too. Or for some terms like I'm like like fridge,

0:35:35.120 --> 0:35:38.000
<v Speaker 1>which comes from frigid air, which was a brand originally

0:35:38.160 --> 0:35:40.920
<v Speaker 1>and not what the actual object was called, but has

0:35:41.000 --> 0:35:44.040
<v Speaker 1>kind of morphed into that thing. Sure, I had no idea.

0:35:44.080 --> 0:35:47.080
<v Speaker 1>I thought it came from refrigerator. I'm I'm pretty sure

0:35:47.080 --> 0:35:48.800
<v Speaker 1>I could be totally wrong. Am I totally wrong? I

0:35:48.840 --> 0:35:52.279
<v Speaker 1>have no idea. I suspect you're right, but I was

0:35:52.400 --> 0:35:54.879
<v Speaker 1>just making an asset of you and me. We'll check

0:35:55.000 --> 0:35:59.520
<v Speaker 1>that and if I'm incorrect, you'll never hear this. Some

0:36:00.120 --> 0:36:02.759
<v Speaker 1>sci fi works actually meet us halfway, I'd say, because

0:36:02.840 --> 0:36:07.080
<v Speaker 1>the future characters speaks, they basically speak modern language, but

0:36:07.200 --> 0:36:10.160
<v Speaker 1>the narrator may give some indication that this is just

0:36:10.360 --> 0:36:13.760
<v Speaker 1>for the reader's benefit, and that the characters would actually

0:36:13.880 --> 0:36:16.640
<v Speaker 1>be speaking a much different language. One example I thought

0:36:16.680 --> 0:36:20.080
<v Speaker 1>of was in Isaac Asimov's The Last Question. So there's

0:36:20.360 --> 0:36:23.560
<v Speaker 1>the characters are speaking as it's written modern English. But

0:36:23.680 --> 0:36:26.040
<v Speaker 1>there's just one part where one of the characters in

0:36:26.120 --> 0:36:30.200
<v Speaker 1>this far future setting remembers that they're dealing with a

0:36:30.239 --> 0:36:33.520
<v Speaker 1>computer called a micro VAC, and the character remembers that

0:36:33.680 --> 0:36:36.000
<v Speaker 1>the a C at the end of micro vax stood

0:36:36.080 --> 0:36:41.160
<v Speaker 1>for analog computer in quote ancient English. Yeah, so so

0:36:41.360 --> 0:36:44.239
<v Speaker 1>it refers to the modern English of the reader, the

0:36:44.400 --> 0:36:47.480
<v Speaker 1>English that you're reading the story in as ancient English,

0:36:47.600 --> 0:36:50.239
<v Speaker 1>as if that's something alien to the character. Obviously would

0:36:50.239 --> 0:36:53.279
<v Speaker 1>be problematic to write an entire book out of a

0:36:53.360 --> 0:36:57.200
<v Speaker 1>manufactured language, right and say this is what English eventually

0:36:57.239 --> 0:36:58.920
<v Speaker 1>evolves into, and you need to learn it so you

0:36:58.960 --> 0:37:01.360
<v Speaker 1>can read the story. It's exactly the point I wanted

0:37:01.400 --> 0:37:03.640
<v Speaker 1>to end on, which is that I'm not trying to

0:37:03.840 --> 0:37:06.959
<v Speaker 1>chide sci fi writers for not doing this more because

0:37:07.000 --> 0:37:09.680
<v Speaker 1>I think it totally makes sense why you would write

0:37:09.760 --> 0:37:12.600
<v Speaker 1>stories in in a modern dialect of a modern language,

0:37:12.640 --> 0:37:15.560
<v Speaker 1>whatever language that is, because your readers are speaking that

0:37:15.840 --> 0:37:18.200
<v Speaker 1>Oh sure, and and it takes so much brain space

0:37:18.880 --> 0:37:21.239
<v Speaker 1>or work for the writer and or the reader. I mean,

0:37:21.360 --> 0:37:24.200
<v Speaker 1>you knows. As much as I appreciate the weird brilliance

0:37:24.280 --> 0:37:28.120
<v Speaker 1>of authors who write in that really heavy dialect, I've personally,

0:37:28.160 --> 0:37:29.640
<v Speaker 1>I don't know about you guys, but I've never made

0:37:29.680 --> 0:37:32.239
<v Speaker 1>it through a novel length work of like Faulkner or

0:37:32.320 --> 0:37:36.479
<v Speaker 1>China Mayville or Irvi and Welsh or even something along

0:37:36.520 --> 0:37:41.280
<v Speaker 1>the lines of a completely um manufactured language something like Tolkien.

0:37:41.400 --> 0:37:45.960
<v Speaker 1>You know, he was really interested in languages things like Welsh, Gaelic,

0:37:46.480 --> 0:37:49.480
<v Speaker 1>as well as Middle English and Old English and Strickland.

0:37:49.520 --> 0:37:53.000
<v Speaker 1>You speak Elvish, don't you? May? I may or may

0:37:53.080 --> 0:37:57.640
<v Speaker 1>not have an Eldish tattoo. Um, I can't say that I.

0:37:58.080 --> 0:38:00.400
<v Speaker 1>Along similar lines, I can't say that I ever read

0:38:00.680 --> 0:38:05.040
<v Speaker 1>any of the Elvish poems. But and it was interesting because,

0:38:05.320 --> 0:38:08.759
<v Speaker 1>you know, according to some accounts of what Tolkien went

0:38:08.800 --> 0:38:12.359
<v Speaker 1>through in including some of his own interviews, the whole

0:38:13.440 --> 0:38:15.800
<v Speaker 1>genesis of Lord of the Rings was really the creation

0:38:15.920 --> 0:38:18.800
<v Speaker 1>of the world, and that would allow these languages he

0:38:18.880 --> 0:38:22.680
<v Speaker 1>had invented to exist. So that's you know, it's obviously

0:38:23.000 --> 0:38:25.239
<v Speaker 1>a different approach. Yeah, well, as nerdy as it is.

0:38:25.719 --> 0:38:28.799
<v Speaker 1>If I'm correct, you will correct me if I'm wrong,

0:38:28.920 --> 0:38:31.160
<v Speaker 1>I know, But I think Tolkien was not just like

0:38:31.360 --> 0:38:34.920
<v Speaker 1>making up words. He was a linguistic scholar, Like he

0:38:35.080 --> 0:38:40.160
<v Speaker 1>understood deeply how languages are formed, the morphological relationship between

0:38:40.239 --> 0:38:42.880
<v Speaker 1>different words and certain house and taxes are created. So

0:38:43.000 --> 0:38:46.719
<v Speaker 1>he put in the work even so far as to

0:38:46.840 --> 0:38:50.360
<v Speaker 1>have two separate languages for the elves, who do have

0:38:50.560 --> 0:38:54.680
<v Speaker 1>a separation that lasts a very long time in the

0:38:54.840 --> 0:38:58.719
<v Speaker 1>span of yeah they can, they can, they stay around

0:38:58.719 --> 0:39:02.120
<v Speaker 1>forever as those jerks. But yeah, so so even then

0:39:02.320 --> 0:39:06.200
<v Speaker 1>with the two two different I guess you could call

0:39:06.239 --> 0:39:12.080
<v Speaker 1>them races of elves cohabitating Middle Earth. They have different languages,

0:39:12.160 --> 0:39:14.160
<v Speaker 1>which is very similar to what we've been talking about

0:39:14.160 --> 0:39:17.719
<v Speaker 1>with populations splitting off and forming a different dialect or

0:39:17.760 --> 0:39:21.080
<v Speaker 1>a completely new language from the parent language that they

0:39:21.120 --> 0:39:23.600
<v Speaker 1>came from. Right, So, in the end, I just want

0:39:23.600 --> 0:39:26.840
<v Speaker 1>to emphasize I'm not saying that if a writer writes

0:39:26.920 --> 0:39:29.920
<v Speaker 1>in their modern dialect for the far future that's like stupid,

0:39:30.000 --> 0:39:33.080
<v Speaker 1>of just yeah, it's no different than if you were

0:39:33.080 --> 0:39:35.880
<v Speaker 1>going to write something taking place in ancient sum Air

0:39:36.360 --> 0:39:38.600
<v Speaker 1>and you wrote that in whatever language you write in,

0:39:38.719 --> 0:39:42.719
<v Speaker 1>because that's just that's how readers will have So just

0:39:43.120 --> 0:39:45.640
<v Speaker 1>just make sure you put a sense at the beginning saying, uh,

0:39:45.840 --> 0:39:49.000
<v Speaker 1>everyone spoke in a language that's totally not like modern English,

0:39:49.040 --> 0:39:50.920
<v Speaker 1>but it's okay because I put it in modern English

0:39:50.960 --> 0:39:52.640
<v Speaker 1>so you can understand it, and then we're all cool,

0:39:52.760 --> 0:39:55.319
<v Speaker 1>or or incorporate something like a like a Babel fish

0:39:55.680 --> 0:39:58.600
<v Speaker 1>or a Universal Translator or whatever the tardest doe, and

0:39:58.680 --> 0:40:01.080
<v Speaker 1>it just so happens to also work on the audience.

0:40:01.239 --> 0:40:05.600
<v Speaker 1>It's so, what what is Jean Lucard really saying that

0:40:05.760 --> 0:40:11.239
<v Speaker 1>we're only hearing in our modern English? Its beautiful? What's

0:40:11.360 --> 0:40:16.120
<v Speaker 1>what's weird? It's actually it's actually all in French. He's

0:40:16.200 --> 0:40:18.640
<v Speaker 1>just being French. Because he's wearing Universal Translator, it comes

0:40:18.680 --> 0:40:27.280
<v Speaker 1>out English. Yeah, so yeah, that's all right. Well that's

0:40:27.480 --> 0:40:30.120
<v Speaker 1>all I've got in me for this episode. So this

0:40:30.239 --> 0:40:32.600
<v Speaker 1>was interesting because it was more of a of an

0:40:32.800 --> 0:40:36.719
<v Speaker 1>historical look at the English language, but really to kind

0:40:36.760 --> 0:40:39.160
<v Speaker 1>of think, you know, it's it's difficult to project what

0:40:39.600 --> 0:40:41.960
<v Speaker 1>language will be like in the future. What we can

0:40:42.080 --> 0:40:45.640
<v Speaker 1>say is it will likely be very different from the

0:40:45.680 --> 0:40:48.359
<v Speaker 1>way it is now. You know, at least in some form.

0:40:48.480 --> 0:40:51.520
<v Speaker 1>It may be that the syntax is more or less

0:40:51.600 --> 0:40:53.520
<v Speaker 1>the same, but the pronunciation is different. It could be

0:40:53.600 --> 0:40:55.560
<v Speaker 1>that the pronunciation remains more or less the same, but

0:40:55.920 --> 0:40:59.359
<v Speaker 1>we end up having weird syntax. Uh. It's it's really

0:40:59.400 --> 0:41:01.719
<v Speaker 1>interesting to us looking over the past and realizing how

0:41:02.000 --> 0:41:05.600
<v Speaker 1>a live language really is, and that that's something that

0:41:05.800 --> 0:41:08.440
<v Speaker 1>if you're ever working on a science fiction novel and

0:41:08.480 --> 0:41:10.600
<v Speaker 1>you want to address that in a realistic way, you

0:41:10.680 --> 0:41:13.040
<v Speaker 1>gotta get a little creative and figure out, you know, well,

0:41:13.080 --> 0:41:15.799
<v Speaker 1>first of all, no one, no one really right, how

0:41:15.840 --> 0:41:17.520
<v Speaker 1>do you make it readable? But no one really knows,

0:41:17.760 --> 0:41:21.120
<v Speaker 1>so really you can't make a mistake until that time

0:41:21.200 --> 0:41:23.120
<v Speaker 1>finally comes around, and by that time you're probably not

0:41:23.160 --> 0:41:26.719
<v Speaker 1>going to care anymore. Um So, anyway, interesting topic. I'm

0:41:26.719 --> 0:41:29.160
<v Speaker 1>glad that you guys picked this as a series, and

0:41:29.320 --> 0:41:32.960
<v Speaker 1>I look forward to exploring other kinds of things that

0:41:33.120 --> 0:41:35.839
<v Speaker 1>that is never really addressed in science fiction. Our next

0:41:35.920 --> 0:41:38.080
<v Speaker 1>idea is we want to do a we want to

0:41:38.120 --> 0:41:40.080
<v Speaker 1>do you don't see that in sci fi about the

0:41:40.160 --> 0:41:44.120
<v Speaker 1>awkwardness of technology. That'll be fun. Yeah, that will be

0:41:44.200 --> 0:41:46.440
<v Speaker 1>a fun one. Yeah, because well we'll save it for

0:41:46.480 --> 0:41:47.880
<v Speaker 1>that episode. I don't want to I don't want to

0:41:47.920 --> 0:41:51.000
<v Speaker 1>spoil anything, so if you guys have any suggestions for

0:41:51.160 --> 0:41:54.880
<v Speaker 1>future episodes of Forward Thinking, even if it's an episode

0:41:54.880 --> 0:41:57.360
<v Speaker 1>in this series or something completely different, let us know.

0:41:57.760 --> 0:41:59.640
<v Speaker 1>You can drop us a line on Twitter, Facebook, or

0:41:59.680 --> 0:42:02.560
<v Speaker 1>Google Plus are handled all threes f W Thinking, or

0:42:02.640 --> 0:42:06.040
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0:42:06.160 --> 0:42:09.600
<v Speaker 1>dot com and we will talk to you again really soon.

0:42:13.920 --> 0:42:16.319
<v Speaker 1>For more on this topic in the future of technology,

0:42:16.640 --> 0:42:30.520
<v Speaker 1>visit forward thinking dot com. Brought to you by Toyota

0:42:31.000 --> 0:42:31.960
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