1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game of Sarah Spain, where all we 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: wanted for Christmas was a new WNBACBA SI There's always 3 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:08,399 Speaker 1: next year. 4 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:10,479 Speaker 2: It's Monday, December twenty ninth. 5 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: Then, this week we'll be running back some of our 6 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: favorite interviews from twenty twenty five. No news, no special segments, 7 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: no play of the day or reviews, just good old 8 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: fashioned conversations. Today, we're bringing back an episode from a 9 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 1: few months ago featuring Aaron Drake of the WNBA Players 10 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: Association and Megan Burke and Tory Huster of the nwsl 11 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 1: Players Association. This conversation occurred in late October ahead of 12 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: the first WNBACBA deadline, and while that has come and gone, 13 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: along with a second deadline that has also passed, the 14 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,599 Speaker 1: discussion is as valid as ever with the third deadline 15 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: approaching on January ninth. The trio discussed what collective bargaining 16 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: negotiations look like behind the scenes, what the NWSLPA and 17 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: WNBPA have learned from each other, and how systems need 18 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: to change in order for investment in women's sports to 19 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: make it to the players that built the leagues. We're 20 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: scheduling this episode a few days in advance, and we're 21 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,319 Speaker 1: putting it back out into the universe as a sort 22 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: of hopeful JINX. Maybe by the time you're listening to this, 23 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: a new CBA has been finalized and the real twenty 24 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: twenty six WNBA off season can finally begin. We're all 25 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: dying to see what happens in what could be a 26 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: major free agent frenzy. Our toes and fingers are crossed 27 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: for a deal to get done. 28 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 2: How about y'all. 29 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: Stick around for my conversation after the break, joining us 30 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: on the show for. 31 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 2: A second time. 32 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: She's the deputy executive director of the NWSL Players Association 33 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 1: and a former pro player who spent most of her 34 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 1: career with the Washington Spirit and clubs in Australia before 35 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: retiring last December. She was the only player to have 36 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: been on the Washington Spirit for all eleven seasons of 37 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: its existence. A Cincinnati native, she played her college soccer 38 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: for the Florida Seminoles, where she received the Golden Torch Award, 39 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: which is given to the athlete from each sport with 40 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: the highest grade point average. As president of the Players 41 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: Association from twenty twenty to twenty four, she was integral 42 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: in helping the nwsl and the Players Association agree to 43 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: its first ever CBA back in twenty twenty two, and 44 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: then a groundbreaking new CBA last year. It's Tory Houster, 45 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: also back for a second time. She's an attorney and 46 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: the executive director of the NWSLPA, who led negotiations of 47 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: the league's first ever CBA in twenty twenty two and 48 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: their league and sport shifting CBA in twenty twenty four. 49 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: A former player in the WPSL, WUSA, WPS and in England, 50 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 1: she played college soccer for Saint Louis University, where she 51 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 1: earned the nickname the Berkenader and was named. 52 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 2: The school's Player of the Decade. 53 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: She's a former coach and a serious lurer with a 54 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: degree from Northeastern University. But we still once made a 55 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:35,359 Speaker 1: thirteen person human pyramid outside of bar at two AM 56 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: in Louisville, and the last time she joined the show 57 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 1: it was from a beach chair on vacation. It's Megan 58 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:44,239 Speaker 1: Burke and making her Good Game debut. She's the Senior 59 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: Advisor and legal counsel for the Women's National Basketball Players 60 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: Association aka the WNBPA. She also co leads the Justice 61 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,959 Speaker 1: Equity Diversity and Inclusion Player Leadership Committee, sits on the 62 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 1: Sports Council for the American Federation of Labor and Congress 63 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: of Industrial Organizations, and is a member of the Union's 64 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 1: Collective Bargaining Negotiations team. A Nashville native, she's a Harvard gred. 65 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: But she didn't just go to Harvard. She was awarded 66 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: the Barrett Wendel Prize for Exceptional Sophomore Work, the Paul 67 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: Revere Frothingham Scholarship Prize for the Harvard Senior who best 68 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 1: exemplifies the qualities of excellent scholarship and character, and was 69 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 1: selected to be the Class of twenty seventeen convocation speaker. 70 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: And that wasn't impressive enough, so she went to Yale 71 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: Law School. It's Aaron Drake, Hi, three of you. This 72 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 1: is our first threesome Slash four SOMEO. Thank you for 73 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: being a part of it. 74 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 3: Thanks for having us. 75 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 4: S Sarah, thank you for having us on. That's quite 76 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 4: an intro. That was amazing, Sarah. 77 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 2: Do you brieve? 78 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 3: Yeah? 79 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 5: I was just about to say, Nita break. 80 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: I always try to tell my producers that I'm the 81 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: micromachines guy, but they're not old enough to know the reference. 82 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: So I just make myself sound old, but you guys 83 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: are a trio of smarty pants, and I'm so excited 84 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: to talk about how women's pro leagues are uniting to 85 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: ensure that women athletes get paid what they're worth, how 86 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: they unite to make sure women work in safe and 87 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: supportive environments, and that pro leagues continue their rocket ship 88 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: growth by priority tizing the product, which is the players. 89 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: So I want to start with you, Megan, because you 90 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: and Tour were on the show last August to talk 91 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: about the groundbreaking NWSLCBA that, among other things, abolished the 92 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: draft and helped the NWSL better align with the global 93 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: game and schedule. 94 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 2: So why are you here now when. 95 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: The CBA negotiations at hand are for basketball for the WNBA. 96 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 4: Well, first of all, you invited me, so thank you, Sarah. 97 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 2: That's always good to be with you. 98 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 4: Well, look, I think it's no secret that our relationship 99 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 4: with the WNBPA is a really important one. It's important 100 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 4: not just to the players collectively and to the unions collectively, 101 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 4: but to me personally. Terry and Aaron have been tremendous 102 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 4: sisters in the labor fight. We stand with them and 103 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 4: their struggles because they've stood with us and ours and 104 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 4: so while they are certainly leading the way and they're 105 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 4: at the bargaining table, we're right behind them and hot 106 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 4: on their heels and standing with them and really excited 107 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 4: to get to talk about all that today. 108 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: Terry Jackson, of course, head of the WNBPA, Aaron who 109 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 1: reached out to whom to get this collaboration started. 110 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 3: So if we're talking about the collaboration of these two 111 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 3: unions in general, I'm not sure, you know. I know 112 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 3: that we've been in existence for a little bit longer 113 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 3: than the NWSLPA, But when I certainly started in the show, 114 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 3: this relationship was steal tight already, and I knew that 115 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 3: for Megan and Tory, who at that time I believe 116 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 3: was the president of the union and not yet fully staffed, 117 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 3: that they were resources, but not just resources, but were 118 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,239 Speaker 3: people to be able to work with. And so sometimes 119 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 3: it's us and sometimes it's them, but we talk often. 120 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 3: We talk often about a number of the news of 121 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 3: the day, what we were kind of individually going through, 122 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 3: and what we're hearing from our players all the time. 123 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's so smart, Tory, you, as Aaron mentioned, 124 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: led the PA through all. 125 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 2: Of these negotiations last year. 126 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 1: So what are the biggest things you would tell WNBA 127 00:05:55,839 --> 00:06:00,679 Speaker 1: players and their Players Association about CBA negotiations and downs, 128 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: the fights, the handshakes. What do you did you take 129 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: away from your time that you've wanted to share with them. 130 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 5: I would say the one thing about negotiations is that 131 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 5: it's not hard to get people engaged. I think Aaron 132 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 5: and I have we've spoken about that negotiations are the 133 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 5: prime time for a labor union, but specifically for us 134 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 5: and for our collective membership that is across fourteen different 135 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:33,039 Speaker 5: markets for us, for the w for their teams. I 136 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 5: think one of the things for us that's been difficult 137 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 5: is communicating through all of the teams, all the different 138 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 5: players who are competitors on a weekly basis, and then 139 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 5: bringing everyone together for a collective effort. But we see 140 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 5: the w WNBPA is doing exactly what we did last year, 141 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 5: really holding strong to what they know, they want, what 142 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 5: they know they deserve and they have earned. And that's 143 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 5: what we always try to do, and that's what we're 144 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 5: here to support them on for their fight. 145 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, if there's anything difficult about making teammates out of competitors. 146 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: At least in the WNBA, there's only like two players 147 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: currently signed to teams. They're basically almost all free agents 148 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: right now because they're anticipating this new CBA, So it's 149 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: a little easier to convince them, Hey, you might be 150 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: working with someone you're actually playing alongside next year. 151 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 2: Nobody knows. 152 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: Nobody knows, Aaron, how different is this process for y'all 153 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: because of the complicated ownership structure of the w Just 154 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: a reminder for everybody, forty two percent owned by the NBA, 155 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: forty two percent by the WNBA, sixteen percent of private 156 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: equity group. But actually the NBA is a little bit 157 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: more like sixty percent because some of those owners double 158 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: dip in the first round and the equity. A lot 159 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: of the new expansion teams are owned by NBA owners. 160 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: So how does that make it different? You're not really 161 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: just doing a players association plus ownership coming together to agree. 162 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 2: There's a handful of pieces that have to come together. 163 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly right, Sarah. And it's a good question, 164 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 3: and I want that I think anyone paying attention should 165 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 3: be asking I know the players are asking it. I 166 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 3: know that we ask it we like the wn B 167 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 3: p A is the collective bargaining right like unit for 168 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 3: this union for the players of the WNBA. That's clear, right, 169 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 3: it's it's it's just us, it's just the players. On 170 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 3: the other side the structure that they have, they say 171 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 3: that it's the w BA, and that is the That's 172 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 3: who we're negotiating with. That's who's across the table. But 173 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 3: as I think, you know, the conversation that you had 174 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 3: with Davy, I think is very helpful for the public 175 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 3: to understand the various layers that at times, who is 176 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 3: the main decision maker here. I think that that, frankly, 177 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 3: is still somewhat of an open question. But what we 178 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 3: know is that when we're talking to Kathy, we're talking 179 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:58,119 Speaker 3: to Adam too, and not just also to the investors 180 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 3: who are now part owner of this league. Right, that's 181 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 3: sixteen percent. That might sound small or insignificant, it is 182 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 3: not right. That is something that we take seriously and 183 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 3: that the players take seriously. And so for those folks 184 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 3: who are part of that capital raise, including former players, 185 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,559 Speaker 3: including you know, folks like Ali Bank and Google and Deloitte. 186 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 3: These folks who are beacons or put themselves out as 187 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 3: beacons of women's sport. I think they have to also 188 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:26,959 Speaker 3: ask the same questions that we ask about this system. 189 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 3: What system are you investig in, what system are you 190 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 3: trying to prop up, and is it one that is 191 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 3: going to continue to undervalue players labor Because at the 192 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 3: end of the day, people are coming to see the 193 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 3: players right, and yes, that investment has helped build what 194 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 3: we see today. I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. 195 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 3: But we're here now and there are still a lot 196 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 3: of questions that need to be that have to be 197 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 3: answered and reckoned with. But at the end of the day, 198 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 3: I don't care if it's just the w what they're 199 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 3: forty two percent, if it's the kind of like the 200 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 3: seventy five, if it's the sixteen, the bottom line is 201 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 3: going to remain the same. The players are going to 202 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 3: demand this revenue share system that is fair, that is equitable, 203 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 3: and that is that is mature enough to chart this 204 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 3: next course of women's sports. 205 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to quickly ask you because when we 206 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: were seeing the kind of the Fista Collier back and 207 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: forth with Kathy Engelbert and so much conversation about that, 208 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: I was trying to make an apples tapples comparison across 209 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,079 Speaker 1: other leagues, and found it difficult because in other leagues, 210 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: the commissioner of that league works for the owners of 211 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: that league, and it's a pretty. 212 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:34,439 Speaker 2: Cut and dried situation. 213 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: Roger Goodell speaks for the owners, takes the slings and 214 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: arrows of the media and the fans in order to 215 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: protect the ownership for whom he works. 216 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 2: Is Kathy Roger Goodell or as Adam Silver Roger Goodell? 217 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 3: Again, I think that is a great question. I want 218 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 3: to be careful because in some ways I know that 219 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 3: the ways in which women's sports have been handstrong for 220 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 3: a very long time. I'm in paternal systems that it's 221 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 3: almost kind of one can be cheeky or feel satisfied 222 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 3: by thinking that there's a shadow boss here and it's 223 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 3: not the person that we're negotiating with. And so I 224 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 3: want to be very careful and not to necessarily say that, 225 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 3: but to understand that this system that has gotten us 226 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 3: to this twenty twenty five negotiation has been one that 227 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 3: has pulled in a lot of different pieces. And so 228 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 3: in terms of who is the ultimate decision maker, I 229 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 3: think it's the owners in the league, right I think 230 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,319 Speaker 3: that those are the folks who we are really talking 231 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 3: to when I think if you ask league folks, they'll 232 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 3: say that they are the representative of the owners and 233 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 3: their kind of perspective. If that's true, great, we need 234 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 3: to be talking to them more often. 235 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: We have to take a quick break plenty more with Aaron, 236 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: Meghan and Tory coming up right after this. 237 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 2: Megan, I want to ask, as you're talking to. 238 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: Each other throughout this process, does it feel like some 239 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: of the same arguments and stalemates come up across the 240 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: women's sports space or are the negotiations significantly different between say, 241 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: the talks you had last year and what you're hearing 242 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: out of the w this year. 243 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 4: I was just thinking to myself, I feel like I've 244 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 4: said exactly the same things Aaron saying, if not in 245 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 4: interviews at the bargaining table, to players, to anyone who 246 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,679 Speaker 4: will listen. And it struck me when the journalists who 247 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 4: wrote that article in The Guardian reached out and started 248 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 4: asking questions about why is this relationship with a WNBPA 249 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:36,559 Speaker 4: like so important. I mean, we see lots of sports 250 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 4: unions across landscape, but it seems like you guys have 251 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 4: a particularly strong relationships. You almost need to be pushing 252 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 4: back at something that I just kind of assumed to 253 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 4: be true, which is, well, obviously we're in the same fight. 254 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 4: Obviously we're dealing with the same dynamics and issues. And 255 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 4: I appreciated the hard questions because it really got me 256 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 4: thinking that, yeah, you know, it really is something. The 257 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 4: W obviously came along first, as Aaron pointed out, it's 258 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 4: a more mature business for sure, but we've been around 259 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 4: for a hot minute too, and you know where you 260 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 4: look at, hockey and volleyball and women's baseball are coming 261 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 4: along behind us, and we're all saying the same things. 262 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 4: And it's interesting how business folks seem to suspend their 263 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 4: business judgment just because we're talking about women's sports. 264 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 2: Right, all of a. 265 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 4: Sudden, we're very concerned about sustainability, and you know, we 266 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 4: suddenly see professional sports as a business that has to 267 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 4: be cash flow positive on an annual basis, rather than 268 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 4: looking at the increase in valuation being the major economic driver. 269 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 2: For these owners. 270 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 4: And then, to Aaron's point, you know, we come up 271 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 4: with these instructures in our history. We had US Soccer 272 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 4: managing the league, and you know, Sarah that system vocation, 273 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 4: and they exited, and then we became we had to 274 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 4: stay on our own two feet and do not answer 275 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 4: to an MLS or a federation. But we have that 276 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 4: in our history, and so I think it's really important 277 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 4: to Aaron's point. 278 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 2: We call out the systems. 279 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 4: Let's at least call them what they're even if you 280 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 4: know the folks who defend them aren't quite ready to 281 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 4: make a pivot from their ways of seeing things, Let's 282 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 4: at least call it what it is. 283 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's a positive way to think about it, 284 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: which is that you got support from folks for a 285 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,200 Speaker 1: yet unproven product and it helped give you the lift 286 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: you needed to get started, or the cynical way, which 287 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,559 Speaker 1: is people wanted to hedge their bets and never fully 288 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: believed enough in it to just invest the way they 289 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: might any other startup or any other business that should 290 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: have been proven by that point. However you look at it, 291 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: eventually you will have to reconcile whether you want that 292 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: to stay the system that you operate under as you 293 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: continue to grow. And for a lot of women's sports 294 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: and leagues, it has not been beneficial to be under 295 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: the thumb of someone who is not deeply invested in 296 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: the product or doesn't believe in it the way that 297 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: many do once it has proved that it's a viable product, Tory, 298 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: you told us last year that the league actually approached 299 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: you about renegotiating the CBA early ahead of the deadline. 300 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: They were the ones who came to you. That felt 301 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: like a relatively harmonious process, at least from the outside, 302 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: unlike maybe what we're seeing publicly play out for the 303 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: w But you were still able, despite it feeling harmonious, 304 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: to leverage public perception to push for player rights and resources. 305 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: How can the w NBPA do the same, making sure 306 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: that they figure out when and why to. 307 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 2: Go public with certain parts of the battle. 308 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 5: What I see already is that they're doing that. They're 309 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 5: doing exactly what they need to do. I think with 310 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 5: the now season coming to a close, they have to 311 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 5: stay out there and stay present, and I think that's 312 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 5: what we're trying to do as well. 313 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 2: Aaron. 314 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 5: We've talked about making sure that you all are still 315 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 5: in the limelight even though your season might be closed, 316 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 5: because we're still playing. That's why you saw the collaboration 317 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 5: with the T shirts. I think hopefully we see those 318 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 5: those T shirts come out again. We'll certainly encourage that. 319 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 5: But it's really they have done. W players have done 320 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 5: exactly what I think they need to do. They're standing 321 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 5: up for what they believe in, what they know to 322 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 5: be true at the table, and we will certainly support 323 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 5: and back them through their fight. I think you talk 324 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 5: about it being harmonious. It's not always harmonious. Certainly wasn't 325 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 5: last year. We it definitely took way too long for 326 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 5: a league that was coming to us voluntarily, and once 327 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 5: they got really serious about it is when we started 328 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 5: to put more into it and we were able to 329 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 5: get to an agreement. I'm hopeful that the W can 330 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 5: get really serious about what the players want to deserve. 331 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: You mentioned the T shirts. Pay them what you owe them, 332 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: Pay us what you owe us. Shout out to Breaking 333 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: Tea for those You can actually. 334 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 2: Buy them if you want to support the cause. 335 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: Aaron, you mentioned talking to Kathy and Adam, but I 336 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: couldn't tell if you meant that you knew Adam was 337 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: the one behind things when you spoke to Kathy, or 338 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: you meant literally that he's at the table for you. 339 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: So how many people are at the negotiating table when 340 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: you're usually having these conversations. 341 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, so no, I didn't mean am either one of 342 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 3: those things, and I backed one to be very careful 343 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 3: and not too and so I appreciate the follow up 344 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 3: to insinuate that, right. I think my point was that 345 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 3: they can all be at the table. One of them 346 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 3: can be at the table. At the end of the day, 347 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 3: our goal remains the same. It doesn't really matter who 348 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 3: we're talking to about it. The message is cleared. The 349 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 3: players are demanding a more mature economic model that pays 350 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 3: them from the revenue that they generate. And right now, 351 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 3: so the folks across the table, it's the Labor Relationship Committee, 352 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,439 Speaker 3: and that's you know, a part of the owners, like 353 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 3: the representatives from the Board of Governors. I think it's 354 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 3: seven of thirteen and the WNBA is there right so 355 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 3: Kathy at her staff are on the other side of 356 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 3: the table. But Adam is a part of that. He 357 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 3: has made himself a part of this with his recent 358 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 3: comments about the negotiation. And I think we as a 359 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 3: union and the players because again, like we work for them, 360 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 3: they are the folks who are leading this. Like the 361 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 3: more the merrier, frankly, because, as I said, the message 362 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 3: is going to stay the same regardless of who we're talking. 363 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:05,959 Speaker 2: To, you know, Mike did. 364 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,399 Speaker 1: Both leagues have new and old school owners, often with 365 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:13,160 Speaker 1: vastly different financial situations. How do you reconcile so far 366 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 1: what major shifts in your CBA might mean for the 367 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 1: less wealthy ownership groups. And then I have a follow 368 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 1: up about some of those changes to the CBA. But 369 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: so far, how has it been trying to figure out 370 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: the billionaire NFL owner types that are in the league 371 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: versus maybe the original and WSL owners that can't keep up. 372 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 5: Well. 373 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:31,880 Speaker 4: You know, it's an interesting question because I think we're 374 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:35,120 Speaker 4: still seeing some of the limitations of our current structure 375 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 4: where some of the clubs that are ready to spend 376 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 4: and be competitive with the likes of Chelsea are held 377 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 4: back from doing that. So what I would say here 378 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 4: relative to the you know, ongoing labor negotiations, not only 379 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 4: that you're seeing in the w but also Major League 380 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 4: Baseball's coming up. You know, we're going to see some 381 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 4: interesting labor negotiations over the next several years. I would 382 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,679 Speaker 4: describe CBA negotiations as more almost like a tripart tipe negotiation. 383 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 4: You know, oftentimes the league just sends their representatives and 384 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 4: the union sends their representatives. But the teams are actually 385 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 4: who the players work for, interact with every day. They've 386 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 4: got skin in the game, arguably even more than the 387 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 4: league does. And so you know our position. I don't 388 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:16,919 Speaker 4: want to insert myself on the w's negotiations. 389 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:17,399 Speaker 2: That's theirs. 390 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,640 Speaker 4: But in our history, we've always found it really important 391 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 4: to have team representatives there who are the ones that 392 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 4: are actually going to operationalize and execute on whatever we 393 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 4: agree to. And so sometimes that's a missing ingredient. And 394 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 4: to your point, I think in the ENDBSL, you see 395 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 4: there are some legacy clubs that are not investing and 396 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 4: evolving to keep up. I think competition is awesome. I 397 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 4: don't know about you, but that's why I love pro sports, 398 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 4: is it not. I like winners, So we want to 399 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 4: see teams invest and compete and try to level up our. 400 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: Game towards You think that the investors coming into these 401 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,360 Speaker 1: women's spaces, now that the financial situation is different, are 402 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: even interested in uplifting women And if they are, do 403 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: you think they're working to make sure that happens or 404 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 1: do you have to worry now about who's involved in 405 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:04,400 Speaker 1: the space as opposed to just how much money they're 406 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 1: bringing into the space. 407 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 5: I think everyone is looking at women's sports as a 408 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,640 Speaker 5: profitable business now, so you're going to have to worry 409 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 5: about people getting into this for the wrong reasons. 410 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 2: I think. 411 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 5: What we have seen thus far, and to your question 412 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 5: about owners that have been around for a long time, 413 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:28,439 Speaker 5: who aren't those billionaires, I think maybe there's still this 414 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 5: philosophy out there that any investment should be players should 415 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 5: be grateful for, and I think we need to move 416 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 5: away from that. I think gratitude cannot be coerced. 417 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:39,399 Speaker 2: First. 418 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 5: We've talked about it at great lengths in our conversations 419 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,719 Speaker 5: with our players, and it's just not where women's sports 420 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 5: exists anymore. So I think vetting the investment that comes 421 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:57,719 Speaker 5: into our game, into basketball, that is really important. New 422 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 5: ownership groups making sure that they are top notch humans, 423 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 5: I think that is certainly something that we look out for. 424 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: Aaron, I want to get to this investor's thing, because 425 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: on the women's side, just a constant conversation. By the way, 426 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: we keep talking about the sixteen percent because of the 427 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: ownership makeup, and I was invited into them because I 428 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 1: had such a terrible NWSL investment experience, I turned it down. 429 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:21,640 Speaker 2: And that turns out to be a. 430 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: Really bad idea because that sixteen percent got a real 431 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 1: good deal on a rocket ship. Anyway, this isn't about me, 432 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: these investors that are pouring money and Adam Silver is 433 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: using the literal world's rocket trajectory. Right, So we're hearing 434 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 1: about rocket ship growth while they're still saying they can't 435 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: play the players. The same people still have the power. 436 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: The women actually driving the growth aren't seeing the same 437 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: rocket trajectory that everybody else is. So when folks are investing, 438 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: are they actually investing in women or just around them? 439 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think one, sorry Sarah for what happened 440 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 3: with your potential investment. I you know, Wow, let's not linger, 441 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 3: But yeah, exactly. Look, I want to answer this question 442 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 3: kind of head on and then kind of take a 443 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,880 Speaker 3: step back and unwind it a little bit. If they 444 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 3: are investing but they don't know kind of like whether 445 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 3: this money is actually going to athletes, they need to 446 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 3: be asking some questions. I think for all of the 447 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,239 Speaker 3: folks that I named earlier, for the folks who were 448 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 3: involved in that capital raise, for the change makers at 449 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 3: the for the w for all of these investors. They 450 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 3: are very loud about their investments. We see the commercials, 451 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 3: which are the good commercials, you know, about the future, 452 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 3: about opportunity, about girls and about women, and that sound great, 453 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 3: but it's just optics if you're not pushing for that 454 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 3: money to get to players. And so you know, again 455 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 3: for the ally Banks, for the at and Ts, the Googles, 456 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 3: the State's truths, like the Bumbles and the Deloittes, you 457 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 3: have to ask yourself, where is my investment going. If 458 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 3: you just wanted to go to the business, that's one thing. 459 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 3: If you just want to build infrastructure, that's one thing. 460 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 3: If you think that it is going to players, well, 461 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 3: let's take a set back. Let's kind of stay with 462 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 3: that first scenario. Right, Let's accept for a second that 463 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 3: that needed to happen. Right, Like, I think we can 464 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 3: all say that what the capital raise was at this 465 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 3: point looks undervalued. We'll say we'll just leave it there. Yes, 466 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 3: just like the media wized sale. Right, It's like, but 467 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 3: you know, don't want to have a confirmation bias or 468 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 3: something like that, So let's just leave that there. Let's 469 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,400 Speaker 3: accept that that money had to be raised to get 470 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 3: us to this point. Even if we think that it 471 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 3: was too low, it worked. 472 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 2: It worked. 473 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 3: We are here, and so the players have been have 474 00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,159 Speaker 3: been keeping up with their side of the bargain for 475 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 3: almost three decads, for almost thirty years, been putting a 476 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 3: elite basketball, elite talent on a stage for people to enjoy, 477 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 3: for people to consume, for people to be inspired by. 478 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 3: If that setting that they were playing in didn't match, 479 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 3: there was a need for investment. But now we have 480 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 3: a setting that is a bit more appropriate for the 481 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 3: world's best talent in basketball. Right, Like we just saw 482 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 3: the finals and it's like we're watching some of the 483 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 3: best players to ever play this game and who might 484 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 3: be the best for decades and centuries to come. You 485 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 3: can't put them in a rec center that's not going 486 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 3: to imbue inspiration to anyone who's paying attention for dollars 487 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 3: or anything else. Right, So, I'm not saying that we 488 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 3: didn't need that infrastructure, but it's here, and for women's sports, 489 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 3: I think there has been a need for that kind 490 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:59,360 Speaker 3: of literal infrastructure, like the buildings of playing the practice facilities, 491 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 3: the professionalszation of the spaces, but there's also been a 492 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 3: need for the societal and cultural kind of infrastructure. I 493 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 3: think we can spend a lot of time in this 494 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 3: conversation talking about how we got to the need to 495 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 3: rebuild that because actions happened a long time ago that 496 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 3: prevented that natural, potential kind of interest to take hold 497 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 3: and grow naturally. Back to that conversation where you're just 498 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 3: having about competition and allowing that to grow. But now 499 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 3: we're here, and so are you expecting the same system 500 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 3: to take hold that you invested in five years ago 501 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 3: potentially ten years ago that's been sustainable and so well. 502 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 1: What would it take for the money to finally reach 503 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: the athletes? Like does it have to be a literal 504 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 1: system like in college where they say click the box 505 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: where you want your money to go. I only wanted 506 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 1: to go to the track team, or I only wanted 507 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 1: to go to the library. Like how do we actually 508 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,239 Speaker 1: ensure that future investors who do want to prop up 509 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: the athletes in addition to the full product get their wish. 510 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, Thankfully they don't have to do it alone because 511 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 3: we like the players have a union, right, and that's 512 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 3: exactly what we're fighting for. Sometimes these systems need help. 513 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,919 Speaker 3: And this is kind of like the biggest kind of 514 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 3: reason to have labor unions. It's in order to push 515 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 3: it's an order to be able to negotiate in that room. 516 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,439 Speaker 3: How the players are going to be kind of able 517 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 3: to recoup in this business. It's not just on the investors. 518 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 3: Y'all do your part, and the players are going to 519 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 3: do theirs, and the union is going to do theirs. 520 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 3: The league also has to do theirs and understand that 521 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 3: we are not in the infancy stage anymore. Evolution is necessary, 522 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 3: but if you don't do it, that can so kind 523 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 3: of equal death. It's not just one direction or the other. 524 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 3: You have to do both. And it's that simple. So no, 525 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 3: there's no need to check a box. I think you 526 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 3: might need to make a phone call, right. I encourage 527 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 3: these folks to call Kathy. I encourage these folks to 528 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 3: call Adam and ask the hard questions because we cannot 529 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 3: be the only ones asking the players cannot be the 530 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 3: only ones who are beating this trump. Thankfully, in today's 531 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,479 Speaker 3: kind of world, they aren't right Because we have sisters 532 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 3: in the I'm in soccer asking them, we have the 533 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,120 Speaker 3: public asking them. But these investors, these sponsors, they also 534 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 3: have a road to play. 535 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 1: And they've got the weight to put the pressure on 536 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: those folks real quick. I want to ask you, because 537 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: you've got with you Megan and Tory who helped push 538 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: for some really big changes on the NWSL side. Abolishing 539 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: of the college draft, expansion draft, and trades without player 540 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: consent all gone. These are three things that were very 541 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 1: important to players in soccer, assisting their ability to compete. 542 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 2: In the global game. 543 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: As far as we've heard, those things don't seem to 544 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: be as important to w players, in part because of 545 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: their desire to make this the preferred league and maybe 546 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: to stop having to go globally to make their money 547 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 1: in the off season. But does the WNBPA have any 548 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: interest in seeing any of those same changes made in basketball? 549 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,119 Speaker 1: Are there things that they're fighting for that we're not 550 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 1: talking about because we're only focused on revenue share? 551 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, that's the main thing, right, Let's keep 552 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:02,439 Speaker 3: the main thing the main thing. But you know, I've 553 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:07,440 Speaker 3: talked about facilities, talking about I'm kind of working on conditions, 554 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 3: and the players are talking a lot about their legacy 555 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 3: and the future and understanding that basketball at this level 556 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 3: might be a short part of their lives, But what 557 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 3: about the next generation, what about the next ten years 558 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 3: of their lives after they stopped playing. But I will 559 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,639 Speaker 3: say what's so inspiring about what kind of Meghan and 560 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 3: Tory and their executive leadership has been able to accomplish 561 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 3: is to have proposals and to get proposals that were 562 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 3: responsive to their players' needs and their wants to be 563 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 3: able to have the lives as athletes that they wanted 564 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 3: to have, which for them included not having a draft, 565 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 3: which for them included having to consent to trades right, 566 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 3: which for them included having this destination be competitive on 567 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 3: the world stage. Because soccer is a global game, you 568 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 3: can't act like it's just a sport that is played 569 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 3: within this nation. I think for us, there are things 570 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 3: that players also want to be able to lit out 571 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 3: their vision for the future of basketball. That has a 572 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 3: lot to do with choice and opportunity and not being 573 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 3: hamstrung for any one team or any one league when 574 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 3: there's money left on the table. Again, competition is the 575 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 3: name of the game, right. We want people to have 576 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 3: to compete, not to be grandfathered in, particularly when the 577 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 3: treatment frankly is not worth it. 578 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think maybe not abolishing the draft 579 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: or requiring trade concept, but we've certainly seen things like 580 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: needing those rookie type contracts where you're not able to 581 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: move out of the team if you're not having a 582 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: good experience change Because for such a long time, the 583 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: best players in the league had almost their entire career 584 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: halfway done before they had an opportunity to choose where 585 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: they wanted to play. So we are seeing you fight 586 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: for things like that. Officiating that's obviously a big When 587 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: are there ways that you're making sure that the new 588 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: CBA addresses officiating concerns? 589 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 3: I think we are looking at every aspect of this 590 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 3: game right truly, and I'm not yeah, I'm not going 591 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 3: to get too specific, but I think a second ago, 592 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 3: like you brought up the rookie contract, it's like people 593 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 3: forget that this isn't soccer, this isn't that, this isn't 594 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 3: men's basketball where people are coming in at the ages 595 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 3: of you know, thirteen fourteen, I'm an eighteen nineteen, right. 596 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 3: The majority of the players who are coming into the 597 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 3: w are in their twenties, right, and for an athlete 598 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 3: have been four years on a rookie contract. As you said, 599 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 3: that could be your entire career. And that's that's you know, 600 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 3: pretty long for a team to just automatically have your 601 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 3: rights because they happened not to make the playoffs last 602 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 3: season and they happened to get a good draft lottery. 603 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: Pick, right, especially since we know that some of the 604 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: teams keep getting those high picks, aren't making significant changes 605 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 1: in investments and continue to be the team's drafting high 606 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: and not giving the players to play for them an 607 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: opportunity to sniff the postseason, so that ability to. 608 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 3: Make you said that becomes really important. 609 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 2: I said it. 610 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:50,239 Speaker 6: I said it. 611 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: We're running out of time here, so I want to 612 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: get a thought from each of you about, like Megan 613 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: and Tory from your advantage point, how you think this 614 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 1: is going to go in the next month or two, 615 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: and what you think people should know about this from 616 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: the outside based on your experience. 617 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 2: Whichever one of you wants to start, I'll. 618 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 4: Be happy to Tori take a stab first, and You're 619 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 4: welcome to come in and correct everything that I say, 620 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 4: because I'm sure you've got some wisdom. 621 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 2: To throw it on here on this one. 622 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 4: You know, one of the things that I've observed from 623 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 4: the outside looking and watching these negotiations of the w 624 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 4: is how similar the dynamics are. And it's just it 625 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 4: comes back to the arrogance of power. I am struck 626 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 4: by what I perceive what I perceive to be going on. 627 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 4: And this is not of course, for you know, I'm 628 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 4: not in the room, I'm not at the table. But 629 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 4: it's just amazing how much leverage players have right now. 630 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 4: And I think it's because, like, the players are the game. 631 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 4: And I've said this before and the people have heard it, 632 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 4: know what it's coming from. Like, ain't nobody buying tickets 633 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 4: to watch executives make phone calls. They're buying tickets to watch, 634 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 4: you know, the the incredible athletes on the court or 635 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 4: on the field compete and perform. 636 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 2: They they are, they do They. 637 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 4: Are the most important piece of this whole equation. And 638 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 4: I think leagues and teams can forget that sometimes. Who's 639 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 4: actually the core of this business and creating the product 640 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 4: that people want to consume, whether it's on the TV 641 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 4: or in person, or merchandise or whatever it might be. 642 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 4: Who is the key to unlocking all this potential and 643 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 4: who's actually generating the revenue that's being created by basketball 644 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 4: or soccer, it's the players. It all comes back to 645 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 4: the players, and for me, I think until the league 646 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 4: and the teams realize that and understand the leverage they 647 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 4: have in this moment, not just at the bargaining table, 648 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 4: but in the public eye with fans, with brands, with 649 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 4: anyone who's paying attention, this is going to be a 650 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 4: difficult conversation in a difficult fight, because the players know 651 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,440 Speaker 4: they're worth and from what I can tell from the 652 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 4: outside looking in, they're a lot like the people we represent, 653 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 4: which is they're not going to back down. They know 654 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 4: they're worth, and they know where the line is, and 655 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 4: they're going to hold firm. 656 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 2: And they know the leverage that they have in this moment. 657 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 6: Tory I love to just say ditto, because none of 658 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 6: that needs to be correct, But as Megan speaks and 659 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 6: speaks to it very well, the players are the foundation 660 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 6: of the league. 661 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 5: And until everyone realize, fans realize that they're not buying 662 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 5: tickets to see any sponsor on a signboard like we 663 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 5: or executives making phone calls the same things. It is 664 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 5: about the game, and I think when players are starting 665 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 5: to play this game, when they are at age four, 666 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 5: they will do whatever they can to make sure that 667 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 5: their careers are as long as they can be. And also, 668 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 5: I think the players of the w the players at 669 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 5: the end of USL know what their worth is and 670 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 5: will be the ones that are going to have to 671 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 5: stand up and fight for it. And I think they're 672 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 5: just asking everyone else to fully support that. 673 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: Right, we got to take one more break. The conclusion 674 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,959 Speaker 1: of my conversation with Aaron, Meghan and Tory is coming up. 675 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 1: I think it's easy in the abstract to value the players, 676 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: but to understand how the decisions that you make every 677 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: day actually impact the length of their careers, the safety 678 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,760 Speaker 1: of their careers, the desire they have to continue playing, 679 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: all that other stuff. I mean the NWSL, for instance, 680 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 1: attendance is down this year. There are a lot of 681 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: factors in that, but a lot of that is a 682 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 1: lot of stars are out due. 683 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 2: To injury, due to pregnancy and other reasons. 684 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: But you can actually see what it means when the 685 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,399 Speaker 1: players that people want to see aren't playing, and when 686 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: you make decisions, whether that's in investments in training facilities 687 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 1: or physical therapy or otherwise, that don't continue to see 688 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 1: the players as the product and the most important thing. 689 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,959 Speaker 1: You're ultimately potentially cutting short their careers and the interest 690 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 1: that people have in them because you're not making sure 691 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: that they're going to be out there on the court. 692 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:48,359 Speaker 2: Aaron, how confident are. 693 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 1: You that a deal is going to be done by 694 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 1: the October thirty one deadline? 695 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 3: Unfortunately, I'm not confident, and I'll be honest with you. 696 00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 3: The players opted out in October twenty first of twenty 697 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 3: twenty four, so we've had a year and it hasn't 698 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 3: gotten done, and it could have. It could have, but 699 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 3: we are going to continue. You know, the fight doesn't 700 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 3: end after October thirty one. I think there's a lot 701 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 3: out there that has not done the reader the best 702 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 3: job of explaining what happens when an agreement expires. We 703 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 3: will still be negotiating, and we will negotiate until the 704 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 3: players get what they are owed and what they deserve 705 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,760 Speaker 3: and what they know is actually going to sustain this business, 706 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 3: not only for themselves and their legacy, but also for 707 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,319 Speaker 3: all of the investment that has been made, because all 708 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 3: of that is at stake. But the players are resolute 709 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 3: and they do understand the power that they hold and 710 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 3: that they are not acting in isolation, you know, which 711 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 3: is why it was such a pleasure to do this 712 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,880 Speaker 3: with you know, Torrey and Meghan, because this is not 713 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,360 Speaker 3: an isolated event. And that's also why people are engaged 714 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 3: with it. Their imaginations are galvanized with it, because this 715 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 3: isn't just about these players, it's not just about basketball. 716 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 3: It's about the value of women's work. And frankly, I 717 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 3: think is a is an incredible moment for unions at 718 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:14,360 Speaker 3: a time when kind of history and education is failing 719 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,920 Speaker 3: us to have a real, live example of what happens 720 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,800 Speaker 3: when you stand in community and fight collectively for something 721 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 3: that you know is correct, not only business wise, but 722 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:27,359 Speaker 3: in every other way as well. 723 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 2: That's a word. 724 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 1: Spell it out for us, though, because to your point, 725 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 1: a lot of us sort of say, well, then the 726 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 1: deadline and then what happens? 727 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 2: Is there an extension? When did they do the expansion drafts? 728 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 2: Is there a drop dead. 729 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 1: Date when teams need to know, you know, who's on 730 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 1: their roster and when players need to know where they're playing. 731 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 2: Spell it out for us. The agreement expires, then what. 732 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, the agreement expires, and then potentially nothing right, the 733 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 3: world of options changes. That's the biggest thing for after 734 00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 3: October thirty first. So right now in our CBA, there's 735 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,319 Speaker 3: no straight clause, there's no lockout clause, so that you know, 736 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 3: in the broad category for that is work stoppage. That 737 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 3: just means that those things can't happen. It doesn't mean 738 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 3: that they're going to happen. It just means that they 739 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 3: are not prevented from happening by a very important legal 740 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 3: document called collective margaining agreement. If neither of those things happen, 741 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 3: and it's a kind of a very specific kind of 742 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:29,840 Speaker 3: legal process to get those things to happen. As you said, 743 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,840 Speaker 3: extensions or another thing that could happen, that's what happened 744 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty. Right If that doesn't happen, you're still 745 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:41,680 Speaker 3: in this period of status quo where you're negotiating and 746 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,840 Speaker 3: things essentially haven't changed. And I think it's a strategic 747 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 3: calculation of what to do when and again I take 748 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 3: my orders, I take my marching orders from the players, 749 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 3: and so that's where we're at. So that is what 750 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 3: happens after October thirty one. Obviously, I'm sure there will 751 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 3: be and I hope people stay engaged on this because 752 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 3: we're not going anywhere. 753 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 2: We're not going anywhere. 754 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:08,319 Speaker 3: In terms of next season, right free agency. As you 755 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:12,279 Speaker 3: mentioned earlier, almost the entire league is in free agency, 756 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 3: and so it is. In a non CBA year, it 757 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 3: would have been a very busy off season and all 758 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 3: of that work still needs to get done. But you know, 759 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,319 Speaker 3: there's there's a couple of things standing in front of that, 760 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:31,800 Speaker 3: and obviously a CBA that is more appropriate for twenty 761 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,799 Speaker 3: twenty six, and beyond its top on that list. 762 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 1: It being October thirty first is a little on the nose. 763 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,640 Speaker 1: You know, the Spooky Season, the Witching Hour, all Hallowsy, 764 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: Scorpio season of the start. 765 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, oh Scorpio season. 766 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,480 Speaker 3: Throw that in there, Yeah yeah, all of the above. 767 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:50,399 Speaker 2: Yeah. 768 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,759 Speaker 1: I'm starting to remember the NBA Emoji gate where there 769 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,720 Speaker 1: were all the free agents trapped and people were blocking 770 00:38:57,800 --> 00:38:59,840 Speaker 1: doors with chairs to keep guys from leaving and have 771 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,359 Speaker 1: conversations with like it's going to be an absolute free 772 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: for all when fingers crossed, the deal gets done and 773 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,400 Speaker 1: everyone starts to figure out the musical chairs of the 774 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,840 Speaker 1: league and where they're going to find their spot. And 775 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,239 Speaker 1: I'm excited for that and I'm hopeful for that, which 776 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: would mean that we did get a deal done, the 777 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,800 Speaker 1: players did get what they've earned and deserve, and we 778 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 1: can get back to being excited about the basketball. Y'all 779 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 1: are too smart for me and too impressive to keep 780 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,320 Speaker 1: you any longer. Thank you so much for giving me 781 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,240 Speaker 1: this time. Thank you so much for this great conversation. 782 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,279 Speaker 1: I hope people got a lot out of it because 783 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:32,480 Speaker 1: I did. 784 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 3: Thank you, Sarah, Thank you, Sarah. 785 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:35,160 Speaker 4: I really appreciate you having us on. 786 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,440 Speaker 1: Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports 787 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 1: production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You 788 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,400 Speaker 1: can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 789 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network, 790 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 1: our producers are alex Azie, Grace Lynch, Taylor Williamson, and 791 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:55,160 Speaker 1: Lucy Jones. Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, 792 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 1: Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rudder, 793 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:02,800 Speaker 1: Britney Martinez and GM Palmer. Production assistance from Avery Loftus 794 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:04,760 Speaker 1: and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain