WEBVTT - Junior 0:00:02.279 --> 0:00:05.560 Strange Arrivals is a production of I Heart Radio and 0:00:05.680 --> 0:00:13.360 Grim and Mild from Aaron Mankie. I'm Dudley Dudley. I 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:18.000 live in Durham, Hampshire, and many years ago I lived 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:21.280 in Greenland, New Hampshire, which is just outside of Portsmouth 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:25.400 and Exeter. While I was living there with my husband 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:30.000 and children, we joined a group called Seacoast Council on 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:34.400 Religion and Race. It was in the early sixties and 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:38.479 among the other people who were members of that group 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:43.319 there was a couple Partey in Betty Hill. I got 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:46.560 to know them rather well and invited them to dinner 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:50.920 one night. And after dinner we were sitting in the 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:54.720 living room just talking generalities, and all of a sudden, 0:00:55.200 --> 0:01:00.959 out of absolutely nowhere, Barney started to tell the story 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:05.360 of something that had happened to them, oh maybe six 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:10.600 months or eight months earlier. It was the story of 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:17.840 their abduction by aliens. It was jaw dropping. I mean, 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:22.080 it was nothing that I had any reason to believe 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:24.520 apart from there saying it. But I mean there's been 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:28.480 no clues whatsoever. Nobody had whispered about. You know, Barney 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:34.360 and Betty had this adventure. They just started to talk, 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:40.520 and it was compelling. They talked about driving in their 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:45.040 car and coming down the highway and seeing lights flashing. 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:52.000 Somehow the lights urged them to pull over from there. 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:56.160 In their telling of the story, it developed into their 0:01:56.240 --> 0:02:00.120 being taken out of the car and into I guess 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:10.200 the spaceship and physically examined. Betty sort of laughed about it, 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:13.760 saying that she figured later that they went back up 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:17.880 into the heavens of wherever from whence they had come, 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:23.160 And we're reporting to their boss of the creatures on 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:27.640 Earth that the male of the species is black, the 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:31.200 female is white, and the offspring is this little sauce 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:36.080 and shaped brown what what we know as a dog. 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:42.320 In their separate hypnosis sessions, Betty and Barney Hill told 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:46.680 remarkably similar stories about being abducted and brought aboard an 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:51.520 alien spacecraft. Last episode, we looked at what we now 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:56.520 know about memory and hypnosis. Simply put, the stories they 0:02:56.560 --> 0:03:00.400 told while under hypnosis can't be regarded as an accurate 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:04.440 recall of a real event. But if the abduction didn't happen, 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:10.400 how were their stories so similar? I'm Toby Ball, This 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:28.880 is strange. Arrivals Episode six, Jr. At the time of 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:34.800 their hypnosis sessions in Dr Benjamin Simon believed that the 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:40.720 source material was Betty's dreams can nights after this happened, 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:43.520 I had a series of dreams for five nights. Each 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:46.560 dream is different, which later I found I was a 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:49.480 recall of what it happened, and the dreams were depicting 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:53.040 what you just described to me at that point. What 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:55.200 do you do? Where? When is it? Is it starting? 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:58.280 Is Bonnie trouble by all of this is Bonnie as 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:01.360 his life pattern change? Has his mood changed at all? 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:08.120 Actually the first thing I did, but each during the 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:10.800 next day I wrote down what I could remember my 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:14.200 dream the following day, which would be and every time 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:20.760 I had after So we're talking, and I wrote, I 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.240 made a record on the thirty eight years to the day, 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:28.120 and then I took and quote him away. And then 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:34.680 later several months later, I talked to my supervise about 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:40.359 the meaning of dreams and that she said, well, maybe 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:45.760 it happened. That was Betty Hill talking with folklorist John 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:54.119 Horrigan during their hypnosis sessions. Betty told Dr Simon about 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:56.719 the nightmares that she had had over the course of 0:04:56.800 --> 0:05:01.760 five nights after the UFO encounter. Dr Simon new Barney 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:05.480 had suffered from anxiety prior to the encounter, but Betty 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:10.880 didn't seem to have a similar prior psychological issue. Working 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:14.640 on the assumption that the abduction had not literally occurred, 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:18.200 he wondered if maybe these dreams had some connection to 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:23.559 distress she was showing under hypnosis as we heard last week. 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:26.640 He also began to wonder if she had been telling 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:30.800 Barney the details of these dreams. Could that be why 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:34.400 his story matched hers. He asked her if she had 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:38.440 talked to anyone about her dreams. This is Dr Simon 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:44.000 on the Larry Glick radio show. In she said, oh, yes, 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:48.680 my supervisor, my sister when we got to work with 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:52.080 some home and have tea together, and I told her 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:58.080 might be And she said that it was my supervisor 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:01.400 who said, Betty, how you know all these how do 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:04.560 you know it isn't true? This is planning the scene. Now, 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:08.640 that had to be true. Not only had she told 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:13.520 someone about her dreams, that person had suggested the possibility 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:18.039 that they were more than dreams, that maybe they were memories. 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:22.200 She also told them that the dreams had been so 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:27.360 remarkable that she had written them down. Dr Simon recognized 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:31.839 this as a great opportunity, so I directed her to 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:34.320 bring in her dreams, that she would find them and 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:36.680 bring them in the next session. She brought them and 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.839 they were fully typed up by herself at the time 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:49.840 they occurred. That's where you important one. In November, less 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:53.480 than two months after their encounter with the UFO, Betty 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:56.599 Hill wrote an account of her dreams in a document 0:06:56.640 --> 0:07:02.279 titled Dreams or Recall. She began this document by writing 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:05.400 that she was going to describe her dreams in chronological 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:08.760 order of the story, which was not the order she 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:13.520 had dreamt them in. With a few minor discrepancies. She 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:16.920 related the same story that she had told under hypnosis, 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:21.559 the turn off the main highway, the figures in the road, 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:27.240 the experience on the spacecraft, even Barney's dentures, and the 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:33.560 discussion about squash. It is, in all important ways indistinguishable 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:39.160 from the story she told under hypnosis and on a camp. 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:41.800 From inspection of that, with her story, they were exactly 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:45.320 alike with one difference. But in the dreams she went 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:51.800 up told the r hampstanding being embodiable. That's all. They 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:57.440 were exactly alone and still were not accept fully that 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:01.640 they were the same. There was another discrepancy that we 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:04.560 will look at it in a few minutes. But Dr 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:08.600 Simon was struck not only by the nearly identical stories, 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:12.600 but also by the way that her hypnotically recovered story 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:17.960 seemed to reflect a kind of dream logic. By the way, 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:20.640 when I say dreams without not only referring facts she 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:23.400 had read, that she'd written them down, but the whole 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:25.560 structure of the story was out of a dream. There 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:30.160 many contradictures inconsistent with a perfect or righted dream. In fact, 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:33.280 they're part of the nature of dreams. And so this 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:37.160 thing was clearly filled out from me, the concept of 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:41.280 the dream by a lot of inner materials dreams. Her 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:45.559 recall was for Dr Simon the key to the whole 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:51.520 abduction narrative. That gave me an answer at that fact 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:59.000 that the fantastic story was her dreams, and we could 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:07.280 hit that check very well with reality. So I was satisfied. 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:10.760 I didn't have to look any further for us exclamation, 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:14.920 I wouldn't have to accept them. But connections they existed 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:23.280 of space describe whatever they were. There is no question 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:27.240 that her dreams and her hypnosis testimony are the same 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:31.520 story told with very minor variations. This can be explained 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:36.040 in two different ways. The first is the explanation that 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:41.280 Dr Simon preferred Betty had these intense dreams and told 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:45.599 Barney and others about them. When they eventually were hypnotized, 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:49.679 Betty related her dreams, and Barney told what he imagined 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:52.560 his experience would have been based on what he'd heard 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:57.160 about her dreams. Is it plausible that Betty's string of 0:09:57.280 --> 0:09:59.760 dreams were caused by the u f O citing on 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:04.560 the night of September I definitely wouldn't say that there's 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:08.480 a reason to believe that something that you've dreamed bears 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:12.120 a straightforward relationship to something that happened in real life. 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:15.640 They're usually related to something that's happening in your real life, 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:18.560 but they're often sort of mixing together different elements. So 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:21.920 it might take a feeling that you've had, maybe you 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:26.120 haven't recognized and kind of dramatized it in a story. 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:30.000 I'm Alice rob and I'm the author of the book 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:34.720 Why We Dream. The dreams that people tend to talk 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:38.720 about and tell their friends about are the more dramatic ones, 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:41.960 and of course those do happen. The reason that we 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:45.959 have those crazy dreams is that when we're dreaming, our 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:49.440 brain is in this different state where the emotion centers 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:53.200 of our brain are very activated, but the rational centers 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:57.600 that usually would keep those emotions in check are more dormant. 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:04.280 So it is consistent with our understanding of how dreams 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:07.600 work that Betty would have nightmares that made a story 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:11.199 out of the anxiety she felt during their UFO encounter 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:16.520 in the White Mountains. The other possibility is that Betty's 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:19.920 dreams were her mind's way of bringing to the surface 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:24.440 events that had happened the night of the encounter, memories 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:27.600 that the alien abductors had somehow caused her and Barney 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:32.440 to forget. If this was the case, the hypnosis sessions 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:37.160 were uncovering actual memories of their abduction. Even if the 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:41.920 hypnotically recalled stories weren't exactly what happened in every detail, 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:45.599 the basic fact that they were brought aboard of spacecraft 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:50.199 was confirmed. That's the argument if you believe the abduction 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:54.520 story is real. I asked Alice rob if there was 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:58.160 any research about whether dreams could conjure up memories that 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:02.600 people had lost. Through him Nisia. The only piece of 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:06.360 research I can think of that involves dreams of people 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:10.839 with amnesia was this study about twenty years ago by 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:16.920 Robert Stickold, who was studying dreams and memory consolidation. This 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:19.520 is one of the first real scientific studies of dreams. 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:22.800 He had people come into his lab and played Tetris 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.679 for hours and then had them report their dreams and 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.560 found that they would have dreams of Tatris, or dreams 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:32.280 of tiles, or dreams that were sort of influenced by 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:37.400 the game. So he included some regular, healthy undergraduates, and 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:41.920 he also included some patients with amnesia. These were people 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:45.520 with no short term memory. They were unable to remember 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:49.640 things that had happened even just hours before. It was 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:51.640 a small sample. It was only I think six or 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:53.960 seven people, so I wouldn't want to read too too 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:58.040 much into this, but they did have elements of the 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:02.400 game in their dreams, even if they couldn't consciously remember, 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.120 like the rules. They would have to relearn how to 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:12.080 play Tetris every time. As Alice said, you can only 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:14.760 put so much stock in a study of this size, 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:18.480 but there is an indication that someone might be able 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:21.600 to recall things in a dream that were lost due 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:26.840 to amnesia. But again, as with any dream, it's not 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:31.199 going to be a replay of actual events. Like hypnosis. 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:35.840 It's a more complicated process. And it's not that surprising 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.439 that Betty would think that her dreams were a recall 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:42.079 of an actual event, and that those dreams would eventually 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:46.640 function essentially as memories. There's plenty of history of people 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:52.600 giving great significance to their dreams. I think dreams absolutely 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:55.920 can affect how we remember things. I mean, dreams can 0:13:55.960 --> 0:14:00.360 be such powerful and emotional and lifelike experiences in ways 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:03.440 that science can't fully explain. It makes sense to wonder 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:06.640 sort of where they came from, and there are lots 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:10.439 of examples of people undergoing religious conversions or changing their 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:16.679 beliefs after powerful dreams. To me, it seems likely that 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:21.200 Dr Simon's instinct was correct. Betty had dreams that were 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:25.360 a reaction to her experience in the White Mountains, then 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:29.480 under hypnosis, she recalled those dreams as if they had 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:34.000 actually happened. This fits with what we know about dreams. 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:38.160 On the other hand, there doesn't seem to be any 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:42.240 scientific evidence that dreams can recall lost memories In the 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:46.840 vivid detail that Betty's described, but there are some discrepancies 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:51.680 in the details of Betty's dreams, Betty's and Barney's hypnosis testimony, 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:56.200 and their later memories. These are most noticeable in the 0:14:56.280 --> 0:15:01.200 way the descriptions of the aliens changed over time. After 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:21.320 the break, strange arrivals will return. In a moment. Take 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:24.400 a second and bring up a mental image of an alien. 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:30.520 Most people will probably think of something like this small body, 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:35.400 big head, with an enlarged cranium, as if to accommodate 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:41.840 a huge brain, oversized oval or catlike eyes, diminished nose 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:47.280 and mouth, no ears to speak of. This description is 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:52.400 what people in the UFO community call a gray. Popular 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:55.640 culture has settled on Gray's is what aliens look like. 0:15:56.440 --> 0:16:01.920 Think close encounters of the third kind. This conception originates 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:05.480 at least in part with the Hills description of the 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:10.080 aliens they encountered, but they didn't initially describe the beings 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:14.800 they encountered in this way. Their description changed as time 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:18.880 went on. This is from Betty and Barney's ninety six 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:23.320 appearance on the Alan Douglas Show. What was the dream 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:29.160 like that you, gentlemen? Well, actually, so we found out 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:34.320 right that my dreams were very, very similar. There's the 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:40.920 information that we have changed. There were some minor differences, 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:45.000 and I think probably the most important difference is that 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:49.960 in my dream I may see I guess said um, 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:56.600 and I say, more human then they were in dreams 0:16:56.680 --> 0:17:01.680 or recall. This is how she describes the alien. During 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:06.719 this time, I became conscious of several things. First, only 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:10.840 one man speaks in English, with a foreign accent, but 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:18.640 very understandable. The others say nothing. I note their physical appearance. 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:22.960 Most of the men are my height, although I cannot 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:26.760 remember the height of the heels on my shoes. None 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.840 are as tall as Marnie, so I would judge them 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:35.520 to be five ft to five ft four inches. Their 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:40.480 chests are larger than ours. The noses were larger, longer 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:44.520 than the average size, though I have seen people with 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:52.119 noses like theirs, like Jimmy Durranty's. Their complexions were of 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:56.600 a great tone, like a great paint with black bass. 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:01.639 Their lips were of a bluish tin. Hair and eyes 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:06.000 were very dark, possibly black. And the men were all 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:11.479 dressed alike, presumably in uniform of a light navy blue 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:16.480 color with a gray shade to it. They wore trousers 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:22.000 and short jackets that gave the appearance of zippert sport jackets, 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:25.680 but I am not aware of zippers or buttons for closing. 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:30.480 Shoes were a low slip on style resembling a boot. 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:36.240 I cannot remember any jewelry or insignia. They were all 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:39.800 wearing a military cap similar to Air Force, but not 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:44.440 so broad on top. They were very human in appearance, 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:50.200 not frightening. But this was not how she would describe 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:54.560 them in her hypnosis sessions. Later, in response to a 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:59.840 written question, apparently trying to address this discrepancy, she wrote 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:03.679 the following reply, Her description is in keeping with the 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:07.000 standards of the mid nineties sixties, but it's a little 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:11.679 jarring to hear today. In my dreams, I felt I 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:15.520 made the humanoids more like us than they really were. 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:21.600 Under hypnosis, I described them as mongoloid, a certain type 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:27.800 of retardation, with broad, flat faces, large slanting eyes, small 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:33.240 flattened nose. Their body seemed out of proportion with their 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:41.520 larger chest areas. Barney too initially described the beings as 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:46.680 looking close to human, but as time passed this also changed. 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:50.920 His first glimpse of the aliens came during the encounter 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:54.199 at Indian Head when he sees the occupants of the 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:59.520 craft looking out at him through the bank of windows. 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:05.000 There are the roll of windows, rolls windows, just a 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:10.560 huge row of windows. Barney describes the saucer occupants in 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:13.920 a way that to him conjures menace. Would you see 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:18.360 clearly yes to his face like that, I can think 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:25.520 of his round, I think of you read him Irishman. 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:30.720 As an African American working in Boston in the late 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:36.520 fifties and early sixties, he associated the Irish with racist hostility. 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:42.359 He's surprised that this quote unquote Irishman seems friendly. I 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:53.639 don't know why. I think I know why because Irish 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:59.240 are usually hostile to new grow and when I see 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:06.800 my friend Gus person, I react to it, I thinking 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:12.640 I will be from me. He focuses on another figure two, 0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:19.200 one that seems more sinister. I think this one that 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:32.160 is looking over the children, the evil face exactly. Barney 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:35.760 had enlisted in the Army during World War Two. The 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:39.560 Nazi figure is another symbol of threat. I'm going to 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:42.919 see these figures that clearly about distance. I was looking 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:48.760 at him with the Marcos Oh I think it's safe 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:53.080 to say that his descriptions here while under hypnosis are 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:58.040 probably reflective of his emotional reaction, not his visual perception. 0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:02.720 I as we have heard, Barney kept his eyes tightly 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:05.720 shut for most of his time on the craft, but 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:08.760 he did open them briefly while he was being examined 0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:13.960 on the table. I saw this kind of grayish color, 0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:16.879 and this is I think, because most people they're not. 0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:19.199 We saw a little green men. And they were not 0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:23.920 green men. They were a grayish, metallic kind of gray 0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:27.119 in color. And I might also say that I'm quite 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:30.320 sure they were not wearing a mask, rather any kind 0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:33.720 of apparatus over the head for breathing purposes, because I 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:38.000 could see what would have been out a thin line 0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:43.040 without a lip muffle that when potty when opened, there 0:22:43.160 --> 0:22:50.040 was a membrane inside that fluttered really red at the 0:22:50.200 --> 0:22:52.960 end of the mouth the towel, and this fluttered. And 0:22:53.000 --> 0:22:55.240 this seemed to be a way that they communicated with 0:22:55.280 --> 0:23:01.600 one another with a very peculiar kind of bumbling. Uh. 0:23:02.080 --> 0:23:06.520 This description maintains the threatening feel of Barney's earlier descriptions 0:23:06.520 --> 0:23:09.760 of the Irishman in the Nazi, but this being is 0:23:09.840 --> 0:23:14.720 clearly not human, and unlike the beings Betty described in 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:20.000 earlier episodes, Barney's doesn't seem likely to exchange and friendly banter. 0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:25.280 Betty and Barney worked with a new Hampshire artist named 0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:30.000 David Baker to create drawings of the aliens. Baker wrote 0:23:30.040 --> 0:23:35.119 the Hills a letter on October two. It seems that 0:23:35.200 --> 0:23:38.800 he had shown them preliminary sketches and they had apparently 0:23:38.840 --> 0:23:44.440 been dissatisfied. In the letter, he tries to address their objections, 0:23:44.920 --> 0:23:47.920 and I think it gives some insights into their perceptions 0:23:47.920 --> 0:23:54.280 of the aliens. He writes eyes slanted opening, rounding sides 0:23:54.320 --> 0:23:58.760 of face, indicating peripheral vision. Anatomy for such eyes would 0:23:58.800 --> 0:24:02.240 indicate bone structure or to protect such in large eyeballs 0:24:02.280 --> 0:24:06.919 as indicated, would extend cheekbones, round curve of ron facial plate, 0:24:07.440 --> 0:24:10.200 giving a look to eyes, if not so much oriental 0:24:10.359 --> 0:24:15.880 as like a cat's eyes. Someone, maybe Betty, has written 0:24:15.960 --> 0:24:21.440 yes in the margin next to this observation. Baker, probably 0:24:21.480 --> 0:24:24.720 referring to Barney's description of a membrane in one of 0:24:24.720 --> 0:24:28.280 the aliens mouths, theorizes that the aliens might be wearing 0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:31.800 some kind of protective film that would distort their features, 0:24:32.480 --> 0:24:35.560 much like a bank robber wearing a stocking over his head, 0:24:35.960 --> 0:24:39.880 pushing his nose flat, pulling his mouth tight, and blurring 0:24:39.880 --> 0:24:44.920 facial details. This theory is met simply with a question mark. 0:24:47.200 --> 0:24:50.960 Baker's completed drawings are held at the Milne Special Collections 0:24:50.960 --> 0:24:55.479 and Archives at the University of New Hampshire. They portray 0:24:55.560 --> 0:25:00.480 what you'd expect, strange figures with large eyes, clad in 0:25:00.520 --> 0:25:07.440 the garb that Betty and Barney described, caps, scarves, jackets. Intriguingly, 0:25:08.040 --> 0:25:12.000 there's also a haziness to the images is if visually 0:25:12.080 --> 0:25:17.800 representing the uncertain process of recall. When you consider that 0:25:17.880 --> 0:25:21.040 this is an attempt to portray beings that they considered 0:25:21.040 --> 0:25:25.200 to be real, the sketches are pretty eerie, But there's 0:25:25.240 --> 0:25:29.360 something else in the archive. The Betty and Barney Hill 0:25:29.440 --> 0:25:34.080 papers are spread among some fourteen boxes. Most of the 0:25:34.119 --> 0:25:40.440 boxes hold some combination of papers, photographs, and documents. Oversized 0:25:40.520 --> 0:25:45.800 Box four, though, holds a very strange artifact, the sculpture 0:25:46.000 --> 0:25:51.399 of an alien bust. It's called JR. As best as 0:25:51.440 --> 0:25:53.919 they've been able to figure out, it's made of some 0:25:54.000 --> 0:25:58.920 kind of resin molded over a window screen core. It's 0:25:58.960 --> 0:26:03.080 putty colored with a hint of green. Believe it or not, 0:26:03.680 --> 0:26:07.840 this bus was sculpted by Marjorie Fish, the same Marjorie 0:26:07.840 --> 0:26:11.399 Fish who constructed the models that pointed to Zeta reticuli 0:26:11.640 --> 0:26:15.119 as the origin of the star map. She sculpted the 0:26:15.119 --> 0:26:18.840 bust based on David Baker's drawings as well as her own, 0:26:19.240 --> 0:26:23.480 which she also made in consultation with Betty. Contrasted to 0:26:23.560 --> 0:26:28.199 Baker's drawings, marjorie sketches are very clear and simple, like 0:26:28.280 --> 0:26:31.679 something you'd see in a well drawn comic book. To 0:26:31.720 --> 0:26:35.359 see Junior in person is jarring. It has a presence. 0:26:36.680 --> 0:26:41.920 Here's Betty showing Junior to John Horrigan during the interview. 0:26:43.040 --> 0:26:47.159 This is Junior. Now. This is a casado composit of 0:26:47.760 --> 0:26:50.800 the individual differences. They do not look alike. There's as 0:26:50.880 --> 0:26:55.680 much different between among them is there is any group 0:26:55.720 --> 0:27:00.760 of people. But this basically shows a characteristics allowed your eyes, nose, mouth, 0:27:01.320 --> 0:27:07.159 no protruding pot No, but this one this is because 0:27:07.160 --> 0:27:11.480 he fell off the podium in St. Louis. Okay. So 0:27:11.600 --> 0:27:15.000 Buddy's okay though, but he hasn't pronounced brown Ridge. Yeah. Um, 0:27:15.080 --> 0:27:18.840 as you said, a pug knows um more or less 0:27:18.880 --> 0:27:22.200 a very small orifice for a mouth, and actually, instead 0:27:22.200 --> 0:27:24.520 of white's actually have yellow eyes and eyes I see 0:27:24.520 --> 0:27:28.639 irishes and pupil. We put the yellow in Okay to 0:27:29.359 --> 0:27:31.879 emphasize him. I was gonna say he needs vizine or 0:27:32.040 --> 0:27:35.200 or he looks like he has malaria, but okay, okay. 0:27:35.359 --> 0:27:40.000 Now Junior has been evaluated by I don't know how 0:27:40.000 --> 0:27:44.600 many physical anthropologists, but what he looks like now, if 0:27:44.640 --> 0:27:48.200 we continue along the path of evolution, this is what 0:27:48.240 --> 0:27:53.240 we're going to look like in years. Junior looks like 0:27:53.280 --> 0:27:57.560 an early prototype of a gray It's cranium is enlarged, 0:27:57.880 --> 0:28:01.120 but not as much as you'd expect. The eyes are 0:28:01.119 --> 0:28:05.080 big and somewhat at an angle, but again not as 0:28:05.119 --> 0:28:09.840 exaggerated is what we're used to now. Also, the eyes 0:28:09.880 --> 0:28:14.200 have gray irises, black pupils, and as you just heard, 0:28:14.640 --> 0:28:17.159 the whites of the eyes are a kind of lemon yellow. 0:28:17.880 --> 0:28:21.040 The nose and mouth are barely there. The mouth is 0:28:21.119 --> 0:28:25.719 just four lines etched into the face. It makes me 0:28:25.800 --> 0:28:28.399 wonder if maybe this was more of a product of 0:28:28.400 --> 0:28:32.680 what she quote unquote remembered most about the aliens instead 0:28:32.680 --> 0:28:35.760 of what they looked like. The eyes had drawn her 0:28:36.240 --> 0:28:40.080 the rest of the face was an afterthought. Betty would 0:28:40.160 --> 0:28:42.560 later claim that the grays that we think of now 0:28:42.800 --> 0:28:46.640 were not what she saw. Let's just go back to 0:28:46.680 --> 0:28:50.280 those type of entities. Um, they were your classic alien, 0:28:50.440 --> 0:28:54.960 gray shaped cat like No, no, they weren't. Okay, human 0:28:55.040 --> 0:28:57.320 being there were, there are a form of human beings. 0:28:57.640 --> 0:29:00.360 Did they have cat like or chestire like eyes? They 0:29:00.400 --> 0:29:05.320 had larger eyes than ours, smaller nose, a smaller mouth, 0:29:06.000 --> 0:29:11.160 no protruding part of the era. Noa nothing like these 0:29:11.200 --> 0:29:13.840 classic grays. You see your Whitley streamers. Da, I'll never 0:29:13.880 --> 0:29:17.680 say nos. I don't know what the okay she said. 0:29:17.720 --> 0:29:20.520 What she saw was closer in appearance to a tribe 0:29:20.520 --> 0:29:24.480 of indigenous people living near Antarctica that she learned about 0:29:24.520 --> 0:29:29.480 at a presentation she attended an Exeter, New Hampshire. Junior 0:29:29.520 --> 0:29:33.080 in fact, looks to be some kind of midpoint between 0:29:33.080 --> 0:29:38.280 a human and the stereotypical gray alien. I understand her 0:29:38.320 --> 0:29:41.640 point that what she saw isn't exactly what we think 0:29:41.640 --> 0:29:45.360 of now, but her description of the aliens as shown 0:29:45.400 --> 0:29:49.320 by Junior is an important step in creating the public 0:29:49.400 --> 0:29:53.600 understanding of what an alien looks like. The question that 0:29:53.720 --> 0:29:57.280 this begs is if they didn't have an actual encounter. 0:29:58.160 --> 0:30:00.920 Where did they get this idea of an aliens appearance? 0:30:02.080 --> 0:30:08.480 Well maybe from TV skeptoid host Brian Dunning. So for 0:30:08.520 --> 0:30:11.120 a long time the people have been pointing to this 0:30:11.200 --> 0:30:14.360 episode of The Outer Limits called the Bollerro Shield as 0:30:15.040 --> 0:30:20.200 probably what inspired Barney Hill's description under hypnosis of what 0:30:20.280 --> 0:30:23.080 these alien characters look like, because it came out at 0:30:23.080 --> 0:30:25.320 the right time that it's it's likely that he would 0:30:25.320 --> 0:30:28.720