1 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: Strange Arrivals is a production of I Heart Radio and 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: Grim and Mild from Aaron Mankie. I'm Dudley Dudley. I 3 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: live in Durham, Hampshire, and many years ago I lived 4 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: in Greenland, New Hampshire, which is just outside of Portsmouth 5 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: and Exeter. While I was living there with my husband 6 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: and children, we joined a group called Seacoast Council on 7 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: Religion and Race. It was in the early sixties and 8 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: among the other people who were members of that group 9 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:43,319 Speaker 1: there was a couple Partey in Betty Hill. I got 10 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 1: to know them rather well and invited them to dinner 11 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: one night. And after dinner we were sitting in the 12 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: living room just talking generalities, and all of a sudden, 13 00:00:55,200 --> 00:01:00,959 Speaker 1: out of absolutely nowhere, Barney started to tell the story 14 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: of something that had happened to them, oh maybe six 15 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: months or eight months earlier. It was the story of 16 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: their abduction by aliens. It was jaw dropping. I mean, 17 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: it was nothing that I had any reason to believe 18 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: apart from there saying it. But I mean there's been 19 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: no clues whatsoever. Nobody had whispered about. You know, Barney 20 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: and Betty had this adventure. They just started to talk, 21 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: and it was compelling. They talked about driving in their 22 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 1: car and coming down the highway and seeing lights flashing. 23 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: Somehow the lights urged them to pull over from there. 24 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: In their telling of the story, it developed into their 25 00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: being taken out of the car and into I guess 26 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: the spaceship and physically examined. Betty sort of laughed about it, 27 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: saying that she figured later that they went back up 28 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: into the heavens of wherever from whence they had come, 29 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: And we're reporting to their boss of the creatures on 30 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 1: Earth that the male of the species is black, the 31 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: female is white, and the offspring is this little sauce 32 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 1: and shaped brown what what we know as a dog. 33 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: In their separate hypnosis sessions, Betty and Barney Hill told 34 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: remarkably similar stories about being abducted and brought aboard an 35 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: alien spacecraft. Last episode, we looked at what we now 36 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: know about memory and hypnosis. Simply put, the stories they 37 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: told while under hypnosis can't be regarded as an accurate 38 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: recall of a real event. But if the abduction didn't happen, 39 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: how were their stories so similar? I'm Toby Ball, This 40 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: is strange. Arrivals Episode six, Jr. At the time of 41 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: their hypnosis sessions in Dr Benjamin Simon believed that the 42 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: source material was Betty's dreams can nights after this happened, 43 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: I had a series of dreams for five nights. Each 44 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: dream is different, which later I found I was a 45 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: recall of what it happened, and the dreams were depicting 46 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: what you just described to me at that point. What 47 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: do you do? Where? When is it? Is it starting? 48 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: Is Bonnie trouble by all of this is Bonnie as 49 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: his life pattern change? Has his mood changed at all? 50 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: Actually the first thing I did, but each during the 51 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: next day I wrote down what I could remember my 52 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: dream the following day, which would be and every time 53 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: I had after So we're talking, and I wrote, I 54 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: made a record on the thirty eight years to the day, 55 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: and then I took and quote him away. And then 56 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: later several months later, I talked to my supervise about 57 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:40,359 Speaker 1: the meaning of dreams and that she said, well, maybe 58 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: it happened. That was Betty Hill talking with folklorist John 59 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:54,119 Speaker 1: Horrigan during their hypnosis sessions. Betty told Dr Simon about 60 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 1: the nightmares that she had had over the course of 61 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: five nights after the UFO encounter. Dr Simon new Barney 62 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 1: had suffered from anxiety prior to the encounter, but Betty 63 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: didn't seem to have a similar prior psychological issue. Working 64 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: on the assumption that the abduction had not literally occurred, 65 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: he wondered if maybe these dreams had some connection to 66 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:23,559 Speaker 1: distress she was showing under hypnosis as we heard last week. 67 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: He also began to wonder if she had been telling 68 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: Barney the details of these dreams. Could that be why 69 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: his story matched hers. He asked her if she had 70 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: talked to anyone about her dreams. This is Dr Simon 71 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: on the Larry Glick radio show. In she said, oh, yes, 72 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: my supervisor, my sister when we got to work with 73 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: some home and have tea together, and I told her 74 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: might be And she said that it was my supervisor 75 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: who said, Betty, how you know all these how do 76 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: you know it isn't true? This is planning the scene. Now, 77 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: that had to be true. Not only had she told 78 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: someone about her dreams, that person had suggested the possibility 79 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 1: that they were more than dreams, that maybe they were memories. 80 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: She also told them that the dreams had been so 81 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: remarkable that she had written them down. Dr Simon recognized 82 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 1: this as a great opportunity, so I directed her to 83 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: bring in her dreams, that she would find them and 84 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: bring them in the next session. She brought them and 85 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 1: they were fully typed up by herself at the time 86 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 1: they occurred. That's where you important one. In November, less 87 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 1: than two months after their encounter with the UFO, Betty 88 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 1: Hill wrote an account of her dreams in a document 89 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: titled Dreams or Recall. She began this document by writing 90 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: that she was going to describe her dreams in chronological 91 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: order of the story, which was not the order she 92 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: had dreamt them in. With a few minor discrepancies. She 93 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: related the same story that she had told under hypnosis, 94 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,559 Speaker 1: the turn off the main highway, the figures in the road, 95 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: the experience on the spacecraft, even Barney's dentures, and the 96 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: discussion about squash. It is, in all important ways indistinguishable 97 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: from the story she told under hypnosis and on a camp. 98 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: From inspection of that, with her story, they were exactly 99 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: alike with one difference. But in the dreams she went 100 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: up told the r hampstanding being embodiable. That's all. They 101 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: were exactly alone and still were not accept fully that 102 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: they were the same. There was another discrepancy that we 103 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: will look at it in a few minutes. But Dr 104 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: Simon was struck not only by the nearly identical stories, 105 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: but also by the way that her hypnotically recovered story 106 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: seemed to reflect a kind of dream logic. By the way, 107 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: when I say dreams without not only referring facts she 108 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: had read, that she'd written them down, but the whole 109 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 1: structure of the story was out of a dream. There 110 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: many contradictures inconsistent with a perfect or righted dream. In fact, 111 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: they're part of the nature of dreams. And so this 112 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: thing was clearly filled out from me, the concept of 113 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: the dream by a lot of inner materials dreams. Her 114 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,559 Speaker 1: recall was for Dr Simon the key to the whole 115 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: abduction narrative. That gave me an answer at that fact 116 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: that the fantastic story was her dreams, and we could 117 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: hit that check very well with reality. So I was satisfied. 118 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: I didn't have to look any further for us exclamation, 119 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: I wouldn't have to accept them. But connections they existed 120 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: of space describe whatever they were. There is no question 121 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: that her dreams and her hypnosis testimony are the same 122 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: story told with very minor variations. This can be explained 123 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: in two different ways. The first is the explanation that 124 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: Dr Simon preferred Betty had these intense dreams and told 125 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:45,599 Speaker 1: Barney and others about them. When they eventually were hypnotized, 126 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 1: Betty related her dreams, and Barney told what he imagined 127 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: his experience would have been based on what he'd heard 128 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: about her dreams. Is it plausible that Betty's string of 129 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: dreams were caused by the u f O citing on 130 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: the night of September I definitely wouldn't say that there's 131 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: a reason to believe that something that you've dreamed bears 132 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: a straightforward relationship to something that happened in real life. 133 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: They're usually related to something that's happening in your real life, 134 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: but they're often sort of mixing together different elements. So 135 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: it might take a feeling that you've had, maybe you 136 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: haven't recognized and kind of dramatized it in a story. 137 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: I'm Alice rob and I'm the author of the book 138 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: Why We Dream. The dreams that people tend to talk 139 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: about and tell their friends about are the more dramatic ones, 140 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 1: and of course those do happen. The reason that we 141 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,959 Speaker 1: have those crazy dreams is that when we're dreaming, our 142 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 1: brain is in this different state where the emotion centers 143 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 1: of our brain are very activated, but the rational centers 144 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: that usually would keep those emotions in check are more dormant. 145 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: So it is consistent with our understanding of how dreams 146 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: work that Betty would have nightmares that made a story 147 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:11,199 Speaker 1: out of the anxiety she felt during their UFO encounter 148 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: in the White Mountains. The other possibility is that Betty's 149 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: dreams were her mind's way of bringing to the surface 150 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: events that had happened the night of the encounter, memories 151 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: that the alien abductors had somehow caused her and Barney 152 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 1: to forget. If this was the case, the hypnosis sessions 153 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: were uncovering actual memories of their abduction. Even if the 154 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: hypnotically recalled stories weren't exactly what happened in every detail, 155 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,599 Speaker 1: the basic fact that they were brought aboard of spacecraft 156 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:50,199 Speaker 1: was confirmed. That's the argument if you believe the abduction 157 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: story is real. I asked Alice rob if there was 158 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: any research about whether dreams could conjure up memories that 159 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: people had lost. Through him Nisia. The only piece of 160 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: research I can think of that involves dreams of people 161 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:10,839 Speaker 1: with amnesia was this study about twenty years ago by 162 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: Robert Stickold, who was studying dreams and memory consolidation. This 163 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: is one of the first real scientific studies of dreams. 164 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: He had people come into his lab and played Tetris 165 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,679 Speaker 1: for hours and then had them report their dreams and 166 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 1: found that they would have dreams of Tatris, or dreams 167 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: of tiles, or dreams that were sort of influenced by 168 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: the game. So he included some regular, healthy undergraduates, and 169 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: he also included some patients with amnesia. These were people 170 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: with no short term memory. They were unable to remember 171 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: things that had happened even just hours before. It was 172 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: a small sample. It was only I think six or 173 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: seven people, so I wouldn't want to read too too 174 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: much into this, but they did have elements of the 175 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: game in their dreams, even if they couldn't consciously remember, 176 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: like the rules. They would have to relearn how to 177 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: play Tetris every time. As Alice said, you can only 178 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: put so much stock in a study of this size, 179 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: but there is an indication that someone might be able 180 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: to recall things in a dream that were lost due 181 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: to amnesia. But again, as with any dream, it's not 182 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 1: going to be a replay of actual events. Like hypnosis. 183 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: It's a more complicated process. And it's not that surprising 184 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,439 Speaker 1: that Betty would think that her dreams were a recall 185 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:42,079 Speaker 1: of an actual event, and that those dreams would eventually 186 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: function essentially as memories. There's plenty of history of people 187 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: giving great significance to their dreams. I think dreams absolutely 188 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: can affect how we remember things. I mean, dreams can 189 00:13:55,960 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: be such powerful and emotional and lifelike experiences in ways 190 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 1: that science can't fully explain. It makes sense to wonder 191 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: sort of where they came from, and there are lots 192 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:10,439 Speaker 1: of examples of people undergoing religious conversions or changing their 193 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 1: beliefs after powerful dreams. To me, it seems likely that 194 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: Dr Simon's instinct was correct. Betty had dreams that were 195 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: a reaction to her experience in the White Mountains, then 196 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: under hypnosis, she recalled those dreams as if they had 197 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: actually happened. This fits with what we know about dreams. 198 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: On the other hand, there doesn't seem to be any 199 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: scientific evidence that dreams can recall lost memories In the 200 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: vivid detail that Betty's described, but there are some discrepancies 201 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: in the details of Betty's dreams, Betty's and Barney's hypnosis testimony, 202 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: and their later memories. These are most noticeable in the 203 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: way the descriptions of the aliens changed over time. After 204 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: the break, strange arrivals will return. In a moment. Take 205 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: a second and bring up a mental image of an alien. 206 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: Most people will probably think of something like this small body, 207 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: big head, with an enlarged cranium, as if to accommodate 208 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: a huge brain, oversized oval or catlike eyes, diminished nose 209 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: and mouth, no ears to speak of. This description is 210 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: what people in the UFO community call a gray. Popular 211 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 1: culture has settled on Gray's is what aliens look like. 212 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: Think close encounters of the third kind. This conception originates 213 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: at least in part with the Hills description of the 214 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: aliens they encountered, but they didn't initially describe the beings 215 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: they encountered in this way. Their description changed as time 216 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: went on. This is from Betty and Barney's ninety six 217 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: appearance on the Alan Douglas Show. What was the dream 218 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: like that you, gentlemen? Well, actually, so we found out 219 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: right that my dreams were very, very similar. There's the 220 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: information that we have changed. There were some minor differences, 221 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: and I think probably the most important difference is that 222 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: in my dream I may see I guess said um, 223 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: and I say, more human then they were in dreams 224 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: or recall. This is how she describes the alien. During 225 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:06,719 Speaker 1: this time, I became conscious of several things. First, only 226 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: one man speaks in English, with a foreign accent, but 227 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 1: very understandable. The others say nothing. I note their physical appearance. 228 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: Most of the men are my height, although I cannot 229 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: remember the height of the heels on my shoes. None 230 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: are as tall as Marnie, so I would judge them 231 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: to be five ft to five ft four inches. Their 232 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: chests are larger than ours. The noses were larger, longer 233 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: than the average size, though I have seen people with 234 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:52,119 Speaker 1: noses like theirs, like Jimmy Durranty's. Their complexions were of 235 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: a great tone, like a great paint with black bass. 236 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 1: Their lips were of a bluish tin. Hair and eyes 237 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: were very dark, possibly black. And the men were all 238 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:11,479 Speaker 1: dressed alike, presumably in uniform of a light navy blue 239 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: color with a gray shade to it. They wore trousers 240 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: and short jackets that gave the appearance of zippert sport jackets, 241 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: but I am not aware of zippers or buttons for closing. 242 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: Shoes were a low slip on style resembling a boot. 243 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: I cannot remember any jewelry or insignia. They were all 244 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: wearing a military cap similar to Air Force, but not 245 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: so broad on top. They were very human in appearance, 246 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: not frightening. But this was not how she would describe 247 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: them in her hypnosis sessions. Later, in response to a 248 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: written question, apparently trying to address this discrepancy, she wrote 249 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:03,679 Speaker 1: the following reply, Her description is in keeping with the 250 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: standards of the mid nineties sixties, but it's a little 251 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 1: jarring to hear today. In my dreams, I felt I 252 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: made the humanoids more like us than they really were. 253 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: Under hypnosis, I described them as mongoloid, a certain type 254 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: of retardation, with broad, flat faces, large slanting eyes, small 255 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: flattened nose. Their body seemed out of proportion with their 256 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: larger chest areas. Barney too initially described the beings as 257 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 1: looking close to human, but as time passed this also changed. 258 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: His first glimpse of the aliens came during the encounter 259 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,199 Speaker 1: at Indian Head when he sees the occupants of the 260 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: craft looking out at him through the bank of windows. 261 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: There are the roll of windows, rolls windows, just a 262 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: huge row of windows. Barney describes the saucer occupants in 263 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: a way that to him conjures menace. Would you see 264 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:18,360 Speaker 1: clearly yes to his face like that, I can think 265 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: of his round, I think of you read him Irishman. 266 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 1: As an African American working in Boston in the late 267 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: fifties and early sixties, he associated the Irish with racist hostility. 268 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 1: He's surprised that this quote unquote Irishman seems friendly. I 269 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: don't know why. I think I know why because Irish 270 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: are usually hostile to new grow and when I see 271 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: my friend Gus person, I react to it, I thinking 272 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 1: I will be from me. He focuses on another figure two, 273 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: one that seems more sinister. I think this one that 274 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 1: is looking over the children, the evil face exactly. Barney 275 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: had enlisted in the Army during World War Two. The 276 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: Nazi figure is another symbol of threat. I'm going to 277 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,919 Speaker 1: see these figures that clearly about distance. I was looking 278 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: at him with the Marcos Oh I think it's safe 279 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: to say that his descriptions here while under hypnosis are 280 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: probably reflective of his emotional reaction, not his visual perception. 281 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: I as we have heard, Barney kept his eyes tightly 282 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: shut for most of his time on the craft, but 283 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 1: he did open them briefly while he was being examined 284 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: on the table. I saw this kind of grayish color, 285 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 1: and this is I think, because most people they're not. 286 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,199 Speaker 1: We saw a little green men. And they were not 287 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 1: green men. They were a grayish, metallic kind of gray 288 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 1: in color. And I might also say that I'm quite 289 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: sure they were not wearing a mask, rather any kind 290 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: of apparatus over the head for breathing purposes, because I 291 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: could see what would have been out a thin line 292 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: without a lip muffle that when potty when opened, there 293 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 1: was a membrane inside that fluttered really red at the 294 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: end of the mouth the towel, and this fluttered. And 295 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: this seemed to be a way that they communicated with 296 00:22:55,280 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 1: one another with a very peculiar kind of bumbling. Uh. 297 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: This description maintains the threatening feel of Barney's earlier descriptions 298 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: of the Irishman in the Nazi, but this being is 299 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: clearly not human, and unlike the beings Betty described in 300 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: earlier episodes, Barney's doesn't seem likely to exchange and friendly banter. 301 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: Betty and Barney worked with a new Hampshire artist named 302 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: David Baker to create drawings of the aliens. Baker wrote 303 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: the Hills a letter on October two. It seems that 304 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: he had shown them preliminary sketches and they had apparently 305 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 1: been dissatisfied. In the letter, he tries to address their objections, 306 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 1: and I think it gives some insights into their perceptions 307 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: of the aliens. He writes eyes slanted opening, rounding sides 308 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: of face, indicating peripheral vision. Anatomy for such eyes would 309 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: indicate bone structure or to protect such in large eyeballs 310 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:06,919 Speaker 1: as indicated, would extend cheekbones, round curve of ron facial plate, 311 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: giving a look to eyes, if not so much oriental 312 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:15,880 Speaker 1: as like a cat's eyes. Someone, maybe Betty, has written 313 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: yes in the margin next to this observation. Baker, probably 314 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: referring to Barney's description of a membrane in one of 315 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: the aliens mouths, theorizes that the aliens might be wearing 316 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: some kind of protective film that would distort their features, 317 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: much like a bank robber wearing a stocking over his head, 318 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,880 Speaker 1: pushing his nose flat, pulling his mouth tight, and blurring 319 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 1: facial details. This theory is met simply with a question mark. 320 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: Baker's completed drawings are held at the Milne Special Collections 321 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:55,479 Speaker 1: and Archives at the University of New Hampshire. They portray 322 00:24:55,560 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: what you'd expect, strange figures with large eyes, clad in 323 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: the garb that Betty and Barney described, caps, scarves, jackets. Intriguingly, 324 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: there's also a haziness to the images is if visually 325 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: representing the uncertain process of recall. When you consider that 326 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: this is an attempt to portray beings that they considered 327 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: to be real, the sketches are pretty eerie, But there's 328 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:29,360 Speaker 1: something else in the archive. The Betty and Barney Hill 329 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: papers are spread among some fourteen boxes. Most of the 330 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 1: boxes hold some combination of papers, photographs, and documents. Oversized 331 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: Box four, though, holds a very strange artifact, the sculpture 332 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: of an alien bust. It's called JR. As best as 333 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,919 Speaker 1: they've been able to figure out, it's made of some 334 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: kind of resin molded over a window screen core. It's 335 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: putty colored with a hint of green. Believe it or not, 336 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: this bus was sculpted by Marjorie Fish, the same Marjorie 337 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: Fish who constructed the models that pointed to Zeta reticuli 338 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 1: as the origin of the star map. She sculpted the 339 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: bust based on David Baker's drawings as well as her own, 340 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: which she also made in consultation with Betty. Contrasted to 341 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 1: Baker's drawings, marjorie sketches are very clear and simple, like 342 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 1: something you'd see in a well drawn comic book. To 343 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 1: see Junior in person is jarring. It has a presence. 344 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 1: Here's Betty showing Junior to John Horrigan during the interview. 345 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 1: This is Junior. Now. This is a casado composit of 346 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: the individual differences. They do not look alike. There's as 347 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 1: much different between among them is there is any group 348 00:26:55,720 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: of people. But this basically shows a characteristics allowed your eyes, nose, mouth, 349 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:07,159 Speaker 1: no protruding pot No, but this one this is because 350 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: he fell off the podium in St. Louis. Okay. So 351 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: Buddy's okay though, but he hasn't pronounced brown Ridge. Yeah. Um, 352 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: as you said, a pug knows um more or less 353 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 1: a very small orifice for a mouth, and actually, instead 354 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: of white's actually have yellow eyes and eyes I see 355 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 1: irishes and pupil. We put the yellow in Okay to 356 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 1: emphasize him. I was gonna say he needs vizine or 357 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 1: or he looks like he has malaria, but okay, okay. 358 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: Now Junior has been evaluated by I don't know how 359 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: many physical anthropologists, but what he looks like now, if 360 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 1: we continue along the path of evolution, this is what 361 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: we're going to look like in years. Junior looks like 362 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: an early prototype of a gray It's cranium is enlarged, 363 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,120 Speaker 1: but not as much as you'd expect. The eyes are 364 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: big and somewhat at an angle, but again not as 365 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: exaggerated is what we're used to now. Also, the eyes 366 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: have gray irises, black pupils, and as you just heard, 367 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,159 Speaker 1: the whites of the eyes are a kind of lemon yellow. 368 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: The nose and mouth are barely there. The mouth is 369 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:25,719 Speaker 1: just four lines etched into the face. It makes me 370 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 1: wonder if maybe this was more of a product of 371 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 1: what she quote unquote remembered most about the aliens instead 372 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: of what they looked like. The eyes had drawn her 373 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: the rest of the face was an afterthought. Betty would 374 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: later claim that the grays that we think of now 375 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: were not what she saw. Let's just go back to 376 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: those type of entities. Um, they were your classic alien, 377 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: gray shaped cat like No, no, they weren't. Okay, human 378 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: being there were, there are a form of human beings. 379 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: Did they have cat like or chestire like eyes? They 380 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: had larger eyes than ours, smaller nose, a smaller mouth, 381 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: no protruding part of the era. Noa nothing like these 382 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: classic grays. You see your Whitley streamers. Da, I'll never 383 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: say nos. I don't know what the okay she said. 384 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: What she saw was closer in appearance to a tribe 385 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: of indigenous people living near Antarctica that she learned about 386 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: at a presentation she attended an Exeter, New Hampshire. Junior 387 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: in fact, looks to be some kind of midpoint between 388 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: a human and the stereotypical gray alien. I understand her 389 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: point that what she saw isn't exactly what we think 390 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: of now, but her description of the aliens as shown 391 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: by Junior is an important step in creating the public 392 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: understanding of what an alien looks like. The question that 393 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: this begs is if they didn't have an actual encounter. 394 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 1: Where did they get this idea of an aliens appearance? 395 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: Well maybe from TV skeptoid host Brian Dunning. So for 396 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: a long time the people have been pointing to this 397 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: episode of The Outer Limits called the Bollerro Shield as 398 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: probably what inspired Barney Hill's description under hypnosis of what 399 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 1: these alien characters look like, because it came out at 400 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 1: the right time that it's it's likely that he would 401 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 1: have seen this on TV or possible anyway, and there 402 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: wasn't really anything else in popular culture that might have 403 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: informed his idea of what an alien would look like 404 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: besides this. I mean, you could just do a Google 405 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: search for the Bollerro Shield and you'll see what this 406 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: alien looks like, and it's like, yeah, it looks kind 407 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: of alien like, but it doesn't really look all that 408 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,479 Speaker 1: much like our concept of what we think of as 409 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: a gray alien today. The Bolerro Shield episode of The 410 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: Outer Limits ran twelve days before the Hill's first hypnosis session. 411 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: The story is about a devious woman who tries to 412 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: steal futuristic technology from a benign, highly advanced alien, only 413 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 1: to have her plan backfire. Can you read my mind? Even? 414 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: Do you see it. I cannot read your mind. I 415 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: cannot even understand your language. The first thing you have 416 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,719 Speaker 1: to understand about the alien in this episode is that 417 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: it looks like a person wearing a mask. It's pretty 418 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: ridiculous by today's standard, and the alien doesn't really resemble Junior, 419 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: but you could describe it as having oversized eyes, negligible nose, 420 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: no ears, and a thin mouth. So the descriptions seem similar, 421 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: even if they don't look too much alike again, Brian Dunning. 422 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 1: But then recently I heard from one of my listeners, 423 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 1: just in the last year or so that they found 424 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: an older episode from the Twilight Zone from April ninety 425 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: two called hocus Pocus and Frisbee, and that had an 426 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: alien character in it that looked way more like what 427 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: we think of as a gray alien and way more 428 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: like what Barney Hill described. Man. Last time I saw 429 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 1: anything that looked like you, I've been four days on 430 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: the corn jug and the timing for that was interesting. 431 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: That came out two years before they did the hypnosis, 432 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: so after they say the incident happened. So it's possible 433 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 1: that that Betty could have seen it, or that Barney 434 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 1: could have seen it. Or that they both watched it. 435 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: Who knows so right now, that's that's kind of my 436 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: favorite explanation of where their description came from and why 437 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 1: it happens to match what we think of as a 438 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: typical gray alien today. Again, the alien here is basically 439 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: a guy in a mask, but Brian is right that 440 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: it is more like what Betty and Barney described. In particular, 441 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: the noses just two slots, and the mouth is essentially 442 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: not there. Betty and Barney claimed not to have seen 443 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: the episode of The Outer Limits, and I haven't found 444 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 1: anything that says whether or not they saw the Twilight 445 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: Zone episode. I don't think the Twilight Zone theory was 446 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: around while Betty was still alive. Regardless, there are opportunities 447 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 1: to see an ad or an image from a television 448 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: show without watching the whole show itself. What does this 449 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: all mean, Well, there was a process that began with 450 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: the actual UFO citing and continued through Betty's dreams, the 451 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 1: hypnosis sessions, and various attempts to produce likenesses on paper 452 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: and through sculpture. The description of the aliens changed over 453 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: this period of time, which is not unexpected given what 454 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 1: we know about memory. But most critically, the change in 455 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 1: description from human like creature is two more exotic aliens 456 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 1: happened during hypnosis sessions, and that change reflected popular conceptions 457 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: of aliens in television shows at the time. It shows 458 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: how the Hill story might have changed in response to 459 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:21,319 Speaker 1: outside cultural factors. It could be that this process was 460 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: towards an ever more accurate understanding of what they'd seen, 461 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: but the simpler explanation is that the description of these 462 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,759 Speaker 1: figures was reflective of their expectation of what they would 463 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 1: see on a UFO rather than a memory. While we 464 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 1: have spent time looking at the story that the Hills 465 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 1: recalled under hypnosis, none of this really reflects on the 466 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,839 Speaker 1: original continuously recalled memories of the trip on the night 467 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: of September, the night that they saw light in the 468 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: sky that eventually became a craft hovering above a field. 469 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,400 Speaker 1: Dr Simon believed that the abduction and was from Betty's dreams, 470 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,800 Speaker 1: but he felt that something had happened to the Hills 471 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: that night. The question is what next time on Strange Arrivals. 472 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 1: Strange Arrivals is a production of I Heart Radio and 473 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: Grim and Mild from Aaron Mankey. This episode was written 474 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: and hosted by Toby Bowl and produced by Miranda Hawkins 475 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 1: and Josh Thane, with executive producers Alex Williams, Matt Frederick 476 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 1: and Aaron Manky. Betty Hill was portrayed by Gina Rickikey. 477 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: Barney Hill was portrayed by Jason Williams. Special thanks to 478 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,239 Speaker 1: the miln's Special Collections and archives at the University of 479 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: New Hampshire, John Horrigan, w y A M in Norwich, Connecticut, 480 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: John White, and David O'Leary, the executive producer of the 481 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 1: History Channel's dramatic series Project blue Book. Learn more about 482 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 1: the show over at GRIMM and mil dot com. For 483 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,320 Speaker 1: more podcasts from I Heeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio 484 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: app Double Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.