1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: today's best minds, and an investigation by the Supreme Court 4 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: has been unable to determine who leaked the ruling overturning Row. 5 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: We have a show that spills a ton of team 6 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:26,080 Speaker 1: your times. Michael S. Schmidt details the extensive annoyance Trump's 7 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: chief of staff John Kelly had to deal with. Then 8 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: Politico's Rachel Bade talks about the slim chance Kevin McCarthy 9 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: is a long serving speaker. First, we have the host 10 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:48,319 Speaker 1: of MSNBC's The Lawrence O'Donnell Show, Lawrence O'Donnell. Welcome back 11 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: to past politics. Lawrence O'Donnell. Oh, it is great to 12 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 1: be back. This is the coolest thing I do. I 13 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: was saying you were like a fan favorite. Besides having 14 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: a tell Asian program, you worked in the Senate. You 15 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 1: have a really good sense of what the history here is, 16 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: and I think that all of us sort of forget, 17 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: and especially right now. I mean, I'm curious to know, 18 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: like the the the Senate you worked in, those guys 19 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: would just be so horrified by what's happening in Congress 20 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: right now. Yeahent of them would be, with the possible 21 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: exception of Jesse Holmes, but really at minimum of nine 22 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: of the senators that I worked around in those days, 23 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: including this is a name lost to history. Malcolm Wallap, 24 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: who was by far the most conservative Republican Senator of 25 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: the ninety nineties, would be horrified by all of this 26 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: because he was a decent person who had, you know, 27 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: a sense of fairness and all that, and what made 28 00:01:55,680 --> 00:02:00,040 Speaker 1: him the most conservative Republican there was. He was the 29 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: closest thing to a Libertarian in the Senate at the 30 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: time and still, you know, a thinking human being. It 31 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: wasn't this nutty call family version. But he would be 32 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: sickened by this. And Bob Dole, who was the Republican 33 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: leader of the Senate, you know, during my time there, 34 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: this is everything he feared about his own party, and 35 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: he saw it beginning with new Ingrich and new Ingdrich 36 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: hated Bob Dole. New Ingdrich called Bob Dole the tax 37 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: collector for the welfare state. Because Bob Dole did not 38 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:40,959 Speaker 1: try to completely degrade the tax system of America. It's 39 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: a horror beyond anyone's wildest imagining. Here's the fun fact. 40 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: We all thought, anyone working in the Congress and the 41 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 1: Senate in the early or at any point in the 42 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 1: we thought, this is as bad as it can get. 43 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: Isn't it too bad that we got to work here 44 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 1: at the worst time? You know, is ging Rich Republicanism 45 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: is getting a foothold, and it was already becoming a roadblocker. 46 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: You know, Gingrich Republicanism roadblocked what we were trying to 47 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: do on healthcare reform back then that Hillary Clinton was 48 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: pushing for the White House, a kind of more complex 49 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: version of what Obamacare eventually became. If it were not 50 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: for Gingrich Republicanism, Bob Dole would have been able to 51 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: reach a compromise with us in the Senate that would 52 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: have produced legislation in that would have looked an awful 53 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: lot like Obamacare, And so you would have had a 54 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: version of Obamacare in place from onward were it not 55 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: for this creeping gingridgi ism. And now those look like 56 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: the glory days. I often think about this. I just 57 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: wrote a piece today about McCarthy's problem with Santos is 58 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: not Santos, It's that Santos is not that different than 59 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: Marjorie Taylor Green or Paul Gossar, I mean, was it 60 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: really a weak Republican party that allowed itself to be 61 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 1: kidnapped and held itself for ransom? Or is that too simplistic. 62 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: One of the problems on the Republican side of politics 63 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 1: beginning of the nineteen nineties was their language became ever 64 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: more extreme, because even then, even before social media, new 65 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: Gingrich noticed that extremism gets noticed. And when you're working, 66 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 1: you know, in a body of four hundred and thirty five, 67 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: you know, and you're in the minority, which the Republicans 68 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: were for forty years before, getting noticed is difficult. And 69 00:04:54,320 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: ding Ridge got noticed by being inflammatory. And once that happens, 70 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: there's only one direction that's going to go forever. And 71 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: so so here you are, you know, twenty five years later, 72 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: and the extremist language just becomes more and more and 73 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 1: more and more extreme. And it was during the Reagan 74 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 1: period when they started to try to make and succeeded 75 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: in making liberal a dirty word. And prior to that, 76 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't you could stand up and and 77 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 1: say liberal or or conservative and mean it critically. You 78 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: weren't saying that liberals themselves as human beings, you know, 79 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: where evil or Conservatives themselves as human beings were evil. 80 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: That that really wasn't implicit in the kinds of criticisms 81 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: that each side would offer about the other. And in 82 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 1: those days when uh, you know, a liberal senator or 83 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: a conservative senator would rise in the Senate or right 84 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: after his opponent spoke and I say his because they 85 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: were pretty much all men um and they would do 86 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: that thing you know that looks incredibly phony, you know, 87 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: like my distinguished friend from Missouri. And here's the thing. 88 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 1: They meant it. They meant it right, And so that 89 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: defined the dialogue. Then it wasn't this vicious attack thing. 90 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: What King Ridge invented was the complete demonization of the person. 91 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: So they were not satisfied with criticizing the idea. They 92 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: were going after the demonization of the person. Because once 93 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: you've demonized the person, every single thing that comes from 94 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: that person is dismissable. And so Republicans went hardcore down 95 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: that road of of demonizing the people and and and 96 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: that's where they are now, right So so they don't 97 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: have to All you have to do is say the 98 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: word Hillary. In that world, that's it. You're done, you know, 99 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: because they've completely demonized her and many others so that 100 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: you don't have to think about what they said. Here 101 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: is a moment of in the United States Senate and 102 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: the spring of how different that world was then. Because 103 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: Leon Panetta, who was then the White House Chief of Staff, 104 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: came up to the Democrats policy luncheon, which I used 105 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: to attend because there's only there's only two or three 106 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: staff members who were allowed in that room, but the 107 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: staff director of the Finance Committee has kind of a 108 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: permanent past to be in that room, so I was 109 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: always in that room. And he had a strategy for 110 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: for the healthcare bill that the Democrats were trying to 111 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: bring or have brought to the Senate floor and we're 112 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: struggling with on the Senate floor where it ultimately died. 113 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: And his strategy was and he didn't like delivering this message, 114 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: I know because I know Leon, and but the White 115 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: House decision, the Clinton White House decision, was the strategy 116 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: of the day, and the Senate should be demonized Doll 117 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: so that all the Senators were to go out there 118 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: that day and demonized Bob Dole for opposing what Bill 119 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: Clinton was trying to do. In the Senate floor, and 120 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: so there was that was greeted generally with silence, and 121 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: I think Ted Kennedy and a couple others were ready 122 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: to do it, but we were floor managing the bill. 123 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: Senator Morning him was And so the first thing that 124 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: happened after the lunch is we went out onto the 125 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: Senate floor and Bob Carey of Nebraska, Democratic Senator of 126 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: Nebraska asked to be recognized, and Senator Morning and immediately 127 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,599 Speaker 1: recognized him. And Bub Carrey, who left half of the 128 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: leg in Vietnam, got up and did a ten minute 129 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 1: speech in praise of Bob Dole, who is a fellow 130 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: wounded warrior from World War Two like Bub carry is. 131 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: And then after his ten minute praise of Bob Dole, 132 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: he went on into his welfare, his his his healthcare 133 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:05,319 Speaker 1: argument of the day, and Bob Dole was not demonized 134 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: on the Senate floor because that's not where our politics was. 135 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 1: And now that's all our politics, and it goes both ways, 136 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: I mean, and by the way, it's become legitimate, there 137 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: are some demons to put mildly on the Republican side 138 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: of our politics. Oh yeah. It's so interesting though, because 139 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: one of the things I keep thinking about is will 140 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 1: this because we're we're seeing already the McCarthy McCarthy's House 141 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: of Representatives, this hundred and eighteen Congress is going to 142 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: be filled with lunatics running oversight, I mean, running really 143 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: important committees. So my question is will this backfire the 144 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: way that Clinton investigations backfired or will this work the 145 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: way Benghazi worked on Hillary? Well, I think we're the 146 00:09:55,800 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: point where investigations probably don't have any real effect. Is 147 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:04,199 Speaker 1: a kind of a stunning polling number about this um, 148 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: which is if you look at the most important investigation 149 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: of our lifetimes, and by the way, I include, since 150 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,079 Speaker 1: since we're talking about our lifetimes, I include the war 151 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: in Commission investigation of the assassination of President County, and 152 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,439 Speaker 1: that the January six Committee is the most important investigation 153 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: of our lifetimes, and I believe the most important investigation 154 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: ever conducted by Congress in its history. And Donald Trump's 155 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: polling numbers were unchanged for the entire run of those 156 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: of that investigation, didn't didn't change, but varied by about 157 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: one point the entire time. Okay, so that tells you this, 158 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: And by the way, that's not what happened when Richard 159 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: Nixon was being investigated by by Congress, Richard Nixon's numbers 160 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: were going down consistently with the findings of the investigations 161 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: and the revelations of the investigations, which is what you'd 162 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: expect from a logical society. There's an indication in that 163 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: that it doesn't matter what you do in investigations. It 164 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 1: doesn't matter how many pictures of Hunter Biden's penis Republicans 165 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: put up on the big screen and study in their earrings. 166 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: That it's not going to change any minds one way 167 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: or the other. And you know, in terms of damage 168 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,719 Speaker 1: to the government, it's kind of the least damaging thing 169 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: they can do is run a bunch of pointless and 170 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: silly investigations. We're certainly going to see a lot of that. 171 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: And what I think is interesting, And we actually had 172 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: a poster on here who talked about this last episode, 173 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: which is that Trump has lost three elections for Republicans, right, 174 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: and what we saw on this mid term especially which 175 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: I was very heartened by and I think you were 176 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: heartened by this too, But maybe I'm projecting, but that 177 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: the voters did not like these crazy candidates like Carry 178 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: Lake unless it was a ruby red state. The voters 179 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: really rejected these trumpy candidates. So you would think that 180 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 1: a Republican party that was acting smartly would you know, 181 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: start to try to take the pain and change their track. 182 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: But that's not happening, no, And that's what every party did. 183 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: You know, after elections, you know, after Reagan wiped up 184 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: the Democrats, they all started moving in a more conservative direction. 185 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: I mean, you went from having maybe a couple of 186 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: dozen Democrats opposed to the death penalty, for example, and 187 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: the Senate in the nineteen seventies, by the end of 188 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties they were all in favor of it. 189 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: There was a lot of adjusting in that direction. And 190 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 1: after Michael Dukakus lost there was a lot of adjusting 191 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: because of that. And on the Republican side, they used 192 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: to try to do the same thing. That's just gone 193 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: from a politics that is no longer in search of 194 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: that voter in the middle. And you know, there's a 195 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: really important thing that I think it's it's in everyone's analysis, 196 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: and it's so built in. I think that many people 197 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: have not quite noticed what they're doing. But the republic Plicans, 198 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: the Trump Republicans, certainly, and Trump do not now and 199 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: never have had a plan to win the most votes 200 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: for president. That's not even in the mix. They don't. 201 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:18,959 Speaker 1: They trump calculation would include the possibility of coming in 202 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 1: even farther behind the Democrat than he has in his 203 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: previous two runs. And it's entirely about the electoral college, 204 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: about the election. And so because you're you're not trying 205 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: to get to the middle, you're not trying to win 206 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: the most votes, then you don't have to get to 207 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: the middle. You know, you just have to make sure 208 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: everybody in the South and North Dakota, you know, turns out, 209 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,199 Speaker 1: which they're gonna do. And it's just an electoral college strategy. 210 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: It's not about winning the most votes. And once you 211 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: drop off of trying to win the most votes and 212 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: you still get to win the election, that's when you 213 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: get the kind of you know, non corrective postures that 214 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: you're seeing on the Republican side. Eventually, they're they're going 215 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,679 Speaker 1: to have to take the pain. I don't know if 216 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: they are. I don't see exactly why they would. The 217 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: other thing that's happening is the general and specific intelligence 218 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: level within the operatives of the Republican party is declining dramatically. Okay, 219 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: So you know, kelln McCarthy is many things, including the 220 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: single stupidest Speaker of the House in the history of 221 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: the conference. And so no one can expect Kevin McCarthy 222 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: to figure anything out. You know, if you're trying to 223 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: figure something out and you've got to talk to a Republican, 224 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: call Mitch McConnell, I don't know who your second call is. 225 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: That that's how thin the strategic thinking bench is. And 226 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: Mitch mcconllein is not going to live forever. So you know, 227 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: Bill Crystal was astonishingly powerful influencer before the term influencer 228 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: was invented in the ninety nineties in the Republican Party. 229 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: He had been Dan Quayle's chief of staff as Vice president, 230 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: and Bill's father was a respected conservative thinker, and Bill Crystal, 231 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: out of office kind of not even in our politics, 232 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: wrote a memo circulated in Washington about why the Republicans 233 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: should oppose the Clinton healthcare plan and not offer an 234 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: alternative to it, but just oppose it and vote it down. 235 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: And that memo became the controlling strategic approach to healthcare. Eventually, 236 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: even Bob Dole had to go along with it, and 237 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: that kind of thing is impossible. Now, I mean, what 238 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: match slap is going to write a memo that there 239 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: that Here, hey guys, here's how to here's how to it, 240 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: Here's how to adjust your behavior. Match match Slap is 241 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: gonna right that. Now, here's how to adjust your approach 242 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: to convincing people to do what you want them to do. 243 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: There's no one, there's no brain left and no strategic 244 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: brain left in and around the Republican Party to adjust 245 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: to any so interesting. Thank you, Lawrence, Thank you very much. 246 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: Michael Aschmidt is a reporter at The New York Times 247 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: and author of Donald Trump Versus the United States Welcome 248 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: Too Fast Politics. Mike Schmidt, thank you so much for 249 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: having me. Let's first talk about the paperback publication of 250 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: your book, and then we will talk of other things 251 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: the book Donald Trump v the United States Inside the 252 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: Struggle to stop the President. First, I want to ask you, 253 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: which I think is like the question I always want 254 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: to ask is like, what's this isn't actually a really 255 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: annoying question? So get ready. What stuff did you find 256 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: out after the book came out that you wish you 257 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: could have put in there. So what I did was 258 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: is that as the book was coming out, I sort 259 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: of realized that there was there was not a hole 260 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: in it, but there was a part of it that 261 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: could be built onto it that I had sort of 262 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: not told, and that was the story of John Kelly. 263 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: And I had written a book about the attempts to 264 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: stop Donald Trump, and it mainly focused on Don McGann 265 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: and on Jim Comey. And as I got done, I said, 266 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: you know, if I had all the time in the 267 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: world and all the energy, I would have written more 268 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: about Kelly. So what I decided to do is that 269 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 1: I took a lot of time and I went out 270 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 1: and I tried to tell his story. And instead of 271 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 1: the paperback coming out a year after the book comes out, 272 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: we deleted and I did a twelve thousand word biography 273 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 1: on Kelly and his times with Trump. Because I said, 274 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: you know what, I wrote this book. I'm probably not 275 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,239 Speaker 1: going to write a book about John Kelly, but I 276 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 1: think his story is important, and it's another way to 277 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,400 Speaker 1: go out and talk about the book again and talk 278 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: about the work that I did and tell what I 279 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 1: think is an important story. So I did this crazy thing, 280 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 1: and we've had this whole then, you know, addition onto 281 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: the book these twelve thou words, and uh here I am, 282 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: you know, talking about it again. I think telling it 283 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: an important story. One of my kids is like super 284 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: into military. We were actually talking about this, and I 285 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: want to ask you someone like John Kelly. I mean, 286 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 1: I feel like what happened to him is kind of 287 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: the worst thing that can ever happen to a career 288 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: military man. I think that's right now. I don't think 289 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: that that there's part of it where you Kelly should 290 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 1: not be sort of let off the hook. And it's 291 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: not my job to sort of hold people accountable to 292 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: tell their stories. But I think an important part of 293 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: his story is that he did end up in Donald 294 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: Trump's orbit, and he had sort of a miscalculation about Trump. 295 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: He thought that Trump's rhetoric was more about politics, and 296 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: that when Trump got to Washington, he was going to 297 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: be sobered by the job and sobered by the process, 298 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 1: and was going to be four was to behave in 299 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 1: a way that was not like what he was on 300 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: the campaign trail. And John Kelly, being sort of a 301 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 1: career military person, said well, I'd work for Hillary Clinton 302 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 1: and I'd work for any president to ask me to 303 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: do anything, And because of that finds himself in Trump's orbit, 304 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: thinking that the institutions will bound Trump, will bind Trump. 305 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: And obviously that turns out not to be true. But 306 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: but Kelly finds himself in Trump's orbit. Then you know, 307 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,360 Speaker 1: he's his secretary of the part of phone land Security, 308 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: and Trump sort of snookers him into becoming his chief 309 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,120 Speaker 1: of staff and he's in the White House in July 310 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: of two thousand seventeen and he says, oh shit, this 311 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: is far worse than I thought it was. I thought 312 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: that Trump needed process and he needed to be better staffed. 313 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: And he says, oh my gosh, this person is worse 314 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: than I ever could have imagined. He later told people, 315 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 1: I didn't know they made people like that. Now, Kelly 316 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,040 Speaker 1: could have quit at that point. He could have and 317 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 1: you know what, screw this, I'm out of here. And 318 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 1: he could have done that, but he said, look, I 319 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: wasn't gonna quit on the battlefield. I'm not going to 320 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: quit in the Oval office. And he basically takes as 321 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 1: much pain as he can for the next eighteen months 322 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 1: to try and contain an unbound president right and me 323 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 1: and and then he finds himself in this absolute partisan disaster. 324 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,360 Speaker 1: So I think Kelly going to the White House, for 325 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 1: Kelly was like crossing a line that he never wanted 326 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: to cross. He looks down on partisan politics. I mean, 327 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: I don't think you would say I look down on it, 328 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 1: but he does not think highly of partisan politics, right. Well, 329 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:44,400 Speaker 1: the whole idea of these guys is that they consider 330 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: themselves to be beyond it. And here he is basically 331 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: going to work for the most political creature of all time, 332 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: you know, someone who doesn't have fundamental beliefs and is 333 00:20:55,080 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: literally just the political creature. And I think that really 334 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 1: he bothered him, but he realized he was so far 335 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: in at that point that he wasn't going to quit. 336 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: But the White House was such a much more political 337 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 1: place than the Department of Homeland Security, even though the 338 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: Department of Homeland Security where he was was also political. 339 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: But it was a cabinet post. It's, in Kelly's eyes, 340 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: it's a national security job. It's probably the most thankless 341 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 1: cabinet post because it's got the most difficult issues and 342 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 1: it has the lead, doesn't have the prestige of being 343 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: Secretary of State or Secretary of Defense. So to him, 344 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 1: he finds himself with Trump, who's like the most political thing, 345 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: and like Kelly doesn't have political aims. He's not Don 346 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 1: McGann trying to remake the federal court system. Right, He's 347 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: not you know, a liberal like uh, maybe a Gary 348 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: Cohen who found himself in Trump's orbit and thought they 349 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: could you know, do something good in the area of expertise. 350 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: He's like a national security guy who's like a political 351 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,679 Speaker 1: and now finds himself with a president United States who 352 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: is is for stupider than he thought, far more immoral 353 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: than he thought, lazier than he thought, and more dangerous 354 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: than he thought. And he says, oh, you know, holy shit, 355 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 1: if I thought this was a problem before I got 356 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: in here, this is much worse than I ever could 357 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: have imagined. It does seem to me like a case 358 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: of everything Trump touches does if you think about the 359 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:33,439 Speaker 1: post nine eleven generation of military officers, right, Kelly was 360 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: a guy who had fought in the invasion of Iraq. 361 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: He had done another tour in Iraq. He had been 362 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: the top military advisor to the Defense Secretary, which is 363 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: a very elite, prestigious role in the military where you're 364 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: essentially the the military officer chief of staff to the 365 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: Defense Secretary. He had been the head of Central Command 366 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: and had sat in the Oval Office or the Situation 367 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: Room in the White House with Obama and told Obama 368 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: things he didn't want to hear about the border and 369 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 1: about what Kelly thought the threats were to the United States. 370 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: He was one of a handful of four star marine generals. 371 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 1: The Marines are different than the Army. They do not 372 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: have so many generals. The army has lots and lots 373 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 1: of generals. At its height, the Marines had six four 374 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 1: star marine generals. And on top of all of this, 375 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: he's the highest ranking military officer to lose a child 376 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: on the battlefield in the post nine eleven wards. His 377 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 1: son was killed in Afghanistan. So he comes to this 378 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: with as a stellar a military record as there could be. 379 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: And it's it's a it's a And you know, John 380 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: Kelly was not a controversial general that ran his mouth 381 00:23:55,359 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: to rolling stone. John Kelly was not um an troversial 382 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: general who became a huge media figure and then had 383 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:09,880 Speaker 1: to plead guilty to mishandling classified information. Like David Petres. 384 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 1: He was a post nine eleven four star Marine general 385 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: and he has to battle with Trump and walks out 386 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: of it with the muck of Trump all over him. 387 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: And unlike a political character, doesn't go out and tell 388 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: a story. John Kelly has written a book. Have you 389 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: ever seen John Kelly on television? So he's not that 390 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: type of character. So he's not gonna go out and 391 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: sort of craft his message. He's gonna say, look, I 392 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: served my country, you know, thanks a lot. I'm gonna 393 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: you know, received to cutting down trees or clearing brush 394 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: or whatever he does, and you know, talking to military 395 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: groups and law enforcement groups about leadership. I mean, these 396 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: are not political characters. But at the same time, his 397 00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: legacy and history has been infused by someone who he hate, 398 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: Saint Donald Trump, and so he's he's conflicted by that. Um. 399 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: So I want to talk to you about one of 400 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: the scoops in this addendum, which is this idea that 401 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:16,959 Speaker 1: Kelly may have stopped him from bombing North Korea. And 402 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 1: it certainly seemed with a lot of the reporting that 403 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: we saw coming out of the Trump White House, that 404 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: Trump had a very itchy nuke finger that he was 405 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: not able to use. Can you talk about this? So 406 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:31,959 Speaker 1: I think that this is and this is like one 407 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: of these examples were like the the the success of 408 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: what Kelly's done here will never weigh as much as 409 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: if he had been a failure. If he this had 410 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: been a failure, then this would have been like one 411 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,959 Speaker 1: of the defining things of Trump's presidency, if not American history. 412 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,120 Speaker 1: And basically what happens is that when Kelly comes in, 413 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 1: he realizes that not only is Trump, you know, far 414 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: worse than he thought he was, but that the biggest 415 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: problem he has. And if you remember, at the time, 416 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 1: we think the biggest problems are the Mueller investigation, or 417 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: Trump obstructing justice or his ties to Russia. Kelly is 418 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: completely convinced the biggest problem is the fact that Donald 419 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 1: Trump may put the United States at war with North 420 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 1: Korea because his public rhetoric is signaling that he wants 421 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: to use force. He's also saying that in private, the 422 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,880 Speaker 1: North Koreans are responding with tests and with their own rhetoric, 423 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: and Kelly, being a student of history, thinks signals can 424 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 1: easily be misread. You have two people here who need 425 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:43,400 Speaker 1: to appear strong, and if there is one thing that 426 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: goes wrong, and let's say the North Korean's launch a 427 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 1: missile somewhere towards the United States and we have to 428 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 1: shoot it down. We're gonna have to respond, and all 429 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,640 Speaker 1: of a sudden, we're gonna be at war, and we're 430 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 1: gonna be at war with Donald Trump as our president. 431 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: And Donald Trump looking trying to look strong, and he's 432 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: his holy shit, it this could be awful. So what 433 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: he does is he says, he's like, I gotta get 434 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: a handle on this, and he tries to to use 435 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 1: process to sort of like get this back on track, 436 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 1: and he brings in the other generals and they brief 437 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 1: Trump and they say, look, if you do this, you 438 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,959 Speaker 1: know you know, here the options we have, and here 439 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: are the consequences, and thousands of people could die if 440 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: there was a conflict. And that doesn't get through to Trump, 441 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: and Kelly tells Trump, you're going to destroy the economy 442 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: that you created, and that doesn't get through to Trump, 443 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,439 Speaker 1: and Kelly, sort of searching for for some way to 444 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: get through to Trump, finally appeals to his ego and says, look, 445 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,879 Speaker 1: you're the ultimate dealmaker. Every president back to Eisenhower, has 446 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:45,919 Speaker 1: never been able to cut the greatest deal in the 447 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: world with the North Koreans. You can do this. Why 448 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: don't you engage directly with Kim? You are the dealmaker, 449 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: You're so good at this. And Kelly does this knowing 450 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: that it's not gonna lead to a d nuclearized North Korea, 451 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: but it is going to ratchet back the public rhetoric 452 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 1: and the public and private rhetoric about war. And if 453 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 1: you remember Trump saying little rocket Man, fire and fury, 454 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: I mean, these are very famous moments in the Trump presidency. 455 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: And they're famous because Trump is looking like he has 456 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: an itchy trigger finger, and like from the United States, like, oh, 457 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 1: it's one thing if Trump is an itchy trigger finger, 458 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,919 Speaker 1: but if you're North Korea, you're like, holy sh it, 459 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 1: this guy is really gonna do this. In the North 460 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 1: Koreans are obsessed with the United States, and here's the 461 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 1: president who says I'm gonna bomb you. So Kelly is 462 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,120 Speaker 1: terrified they're gonna take some sort of move, and by 463 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: doing that, he moves Trump off that rhetoric. Because if 464 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: you look at the ark of the Trump presidency, one 465 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: of the greatest unanswered questions is like, how do we 466 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: go from fire and fury and little rocket Man and 467 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: my buttons bigger than yours to the love letters, like 468 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: how did you get there? It's like and it was 469 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: one of these things that sort of happened, and we 470 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: didn't know the story in between. And look, I'm sure 471 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: there's a lot of reasons we got there, but one 472 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: of them was because John Kelly in one on ones 473 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: with Donald Trump. John Kelly, who probably spent more one 474 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: on one time with Trump than anyone else in seventeen 475 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: and eighteen, is saying, you're the greatest dealmaker in the world. 476 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: You can do this, And Kelly's trying to charm him 477 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 1: into charming Kim to stop this rhetoric, and he's successful 478 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: at it. It's so interesting. So were there other places 479 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: in which Kelly was able to kind of trip Trump 480 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: into not going to war on war? No, I mean, 481 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: I think Kelly spends a lot of his time just 482 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 1: trying to get through the day with Trump in terms 483 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: of military stuff. I don't know what else Kelly was 484 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: able to talk Trump off of. I know he talked 485 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: to him a lot about the border and trying to 486 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: stop Trump from doing these outrageous things at the border, 487 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: putting alligators in the water, hutting people on the legs right, 488 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: and also bombing right, yeah, and using force against Mexico 489 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: and pointing the finger at someone else. Had told Kelly 490 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: that he wanted to use a nuclear weapon. He cavalierly said, well, 491 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 1: why don't we use a nuclear weapon against North Korean? 492 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: Just blame another country. And Kelly says that you can't 493 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: do that. It's to be very difficult to do that. 494 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: You can't just point the finger at someone else. But 495 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: Kelly's battle was it just a day to day battle 496 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: with Trump to get through the day. And most presidencies 497 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: are like planned out, like months, you know, weeks in advance, 498 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: and Kelly just tried to get through the day. He 499 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: would just be prepared for Trump to come down sometime 500 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: late in the morning from the residents and be obsessed 501 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: with something he saw on television and let that dominate 502 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: the rest of his day and just try and get 503 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: through that day without Trump breaking the law, doing something unethical, 504 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 1: damaging himself for damaging the country. That was the day 505 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: today goal of John Kelly. He didn't have the ability 506 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: to think any further ahead than that. You had a 507 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: scoop that d J had talked to Mike Pence uh 508 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: in November remember November. What do you think is happening 509 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 1: with the d o J. At some point d o 510 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: J reaches out to Pence's side to say, we're gonna 511 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: want to talk to pens and that begins what will 512 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,959 Speaker 1: be a lengthy process in which the Justice Department tries 513 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: to talk to Pence. What will happen is that Trump's 514 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: lawyers will come in to try and stop that block 515 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 1: that you know, narrow the questions because of executive privilege, 516 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: and it will go on for some time. We've seen 517 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: similar fights like this in terms of getting the cooperation 518 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:37,240 Speaker 1: of people like Pence's chief of staff, Mark Short. It 519 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: does not mean that pent is gonna go flying into 520 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: a grand jury tomorrow, um, but it means that they're 521 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 1: on that process, and they're on that track. It's just 522 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 1: a sign of how long and slow these things take. 523 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: I don't think there is a more deliberative slow body 524 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: than the United States Justice Department. And I realized that 525 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 1: leaves a lot of people frustrated on all sides. But 526 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: we're just on a slow track here in which it 527 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: will go along and go along for months and months 528 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: and months until we really have any clarity about what 529 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: they're doing. So we do have now two different special counsels, 530 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: one dealing with the Biden papers, one dealing with the 531 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: very different case of all of the Trump papers. I 532 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: do feel like the more Trump tweets, but he's not 533 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: tweeting anymore truths, the more Trump truths about the documents, 534 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: the more it actually hurts him, right like he was 535 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: true thing about all the empty folders. I think it 536 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: is a good point because I think some of the 537 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 1: conventional wisdom has been and I've said this myself, that 538 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: the fact that Biden did this makes it more difficult 539 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 1: to prosecute Trump, because the question of of prosecuting a 540 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 1: former president or someone who's running for president is so 541 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 1: extraordinary that it's not just that you have to explain 542 00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: it to a jury. You're gonna have to explain it 543 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: to the American people, and the American people are gonna 544 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 1: have to in a digestible way, understand why you're doing 545 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: what you're doing. And if Biden's Justice Department, while Biden 546 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 1: and Trump are running against each other, charges Donald Trump, 547 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: just think about like how extraordinary that would be. And 548 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: the first reaction to people as well, well, didn't Joe 549 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: Biden do that? And it's a difficult thing to explain 550 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 1: to the public. I can see the Justice Department having 551 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 1: real pause about that because it will be politicizing in 552 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,479 Speaker 1: the department in a way that I'm sure someone like 553 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 1: Marrick Garland will be very concerned about. At the same time, 554 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,479 Speaker 1: if Donald Trump continues to talk and act in a 555 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 1: way that is in your face, above the law, admitting 556 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: to crimes, looking like he's interfering with the investigation, he 557 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: puts the Department continuously in this position of like, okay, so, like, 558 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 1: I understand, you aren't going to prosecute for these things. 559 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: But he went on to admit to all of them, 560 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 1: and he interfered in the investigation and through sand in 561 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: the gears of it in the process. And I think 562 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 1: that that if you're Donald Trump's lawyer and Donald Trump 563 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: is listening to you, you know, Donald Trump stops talking, 564 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: that has never happened, um, and that doesn't that that 565 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:19,239 Speaker 1: just doesn't happen. So but when I saw his comments yesterday, 566 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: I thought to myself, you know, if he keeps this up, 567 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: he makes it even harder on the Department. And I 568 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,360 Speaker 1: know people will say, look, you know, the public, you 569 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 1: know what goes on in the public rhetoric should not 570 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: affect what the Department's going to do. But like, at 571 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,240 Speaker 1: the end of the day, this is such a big 572 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 1: decision to charge someone like Trump, that everything that goes 573 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: on publicly will have some sort of role in it 574 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: and it can't help him, right, No, I mean, it 575 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: does seem like he's hurting himself. Mike Schmidt. I hope 576 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 1: he will come back. Thank you so much for having me. 577 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,319 Speaker 1: I know you, our dear listeners are very busy and 578 00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: you don't have time to sort through the hundreds of 579 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,799 Speaker 1: pieces pundentry each week. This is why every week I 580 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:08,400 Speaker 1: put together a newsletter of my five favorite articles on politics. 581 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: If you enjoy the podcast, you will love having this 582 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 1: in your inbox every Friday. So sign up at Fast 583 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,319 Speaker 1: Politics pod dot com and click the tab to join 584 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:25,720 Speaker 1: our mailing list. That's Fast politics pod dot com. Rachel 585 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 1: Baide is a senior Washington correspondent and politico and author 586 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 1: of Unchecked. Welcome back to Fast Politics, Rachel, thanks for 587 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,320 Speaker 1: having me on. Molly. I have been dying to talk 588 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 1: to you about this Congress, and every time I read playbook, 589 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 1: I'm like I have to talk to her. I just 590 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 1: dying because it's like every day is to have a Congress. 591 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I know Congress has had historically. We just 592 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 1: had Lawrence and we talked a lot about history. There's 593 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 1: been crazy ship that's happened in Congress before, but I 594 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,759 Speaker 1: feel like what's happening now is theatrical on a whole 595 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 1: other level. Yeah, I mean, it's going to be like 596 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: watching a wrestling match every single day for reporters. It's fun. 597 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,880 Speaker 1: I covered the last House Republican majority under President Obama 598 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: and that had a lot of fireworks. But this is 599 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,359 Speaker 1: going to be like something we've never seen, at least 600 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 1: in recent years. Let's just talk about what this sort 601 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 1: of stage is. McCarthy has the speakership fourteen votes, got 602 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,360 Speaker 1: it on the fifteen. But this is what I don't understand. 603 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,359 Speaker 1: And maybe this is a stupid question, but I'm sure 604 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 1: my dad will appreciate this. McCarthy got it on the 605 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,799 Speaker 1: fifteen vote, and people like Matt Gates never voted from 606 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,879 Speaker 1: McCarthy right, He just changed his vote to present. But yet, 607 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: you know, like he didn't go after Matt Gates for 608 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 1: not supporting him. He doesn't have the power to do that. 609 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,319 Speaker 1: He's going to be an incredibly weak speaker because of 610 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,239 Speaker 1: this very slim margin he has in the House right now, 611 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:59,280 Speaker 1: being able to only lose five Republicans at any given time. 612 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: And because of that, Conservatives, you know, he basically had 613 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: to give away the store. He gave them a lot 614 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 1: of plush committee assignments, which we sort of saw the 615 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 1: results of that this week we can talk more in 616 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: detail about that. One of the sort of bigger things 617 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 1: he gave them was three seats on the House Rules Committee, 618 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,719 Speaker 1: And that might seem like very wonky in terms of 619 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,800 Speaker 1: like technical language for listeners, but it's really important because 620 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,240 Speaker 1: while he got the gavel, he gave away the House. 621 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 1: That panel sets the rules for the floor and basically 622 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 1: dictates what any given bill looks like, no matter what 623 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,360 Speaker 1: it looks like coming out of committee. So Conservatives now 624 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,440 Speaker 1: run the place. McCarthy is speaker in name only, and 625 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: because of that, he doesn't have the ability to punish 626 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 1: these guys, because if he does, they could motion to 627 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 1: house him at any moment, and they could easily get 628 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: the votes to send him packing from Washington. This is 629 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,759 Speaker 1: a lot different than Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who, yes, she 630 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 1: had a little bit of a rebellion on her hands 631 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 1: when she tried to become when she became speaker again 632 00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, but she not only you know, won 633 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,360 Speaker 1: her critics, she also punished them. And that relates to 634 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,719 Speaker 1: your question. And you know, people because of that, we're 635 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: afraid to cross her. Yeah, that was my question. Talk 636 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 1: to us about this rules committee and then the other thing. 637 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 1: I just want you to answer for me because this 638 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 1: is something I've read about, but I haven't gotten to 639 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,440 Speaker 1: ask any congressional reporters, so you're more than just a 640 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: congressional reporter. But we still don't know the extent of 641 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 1: the things that McCarthy promised. I'll start there on that. 642 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 1: So there's been a lot of controversy because a lot 643 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,879 Speaker 1: of Republicans who have been loyal to McCarthy have sort 644 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:39,239 Speaker 1: of been privately squawking about everything he has given. These conservatives, 645 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 1: I mean, they say they have been loyal to him, 646 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: they weren't trying to use their vote to leverage you know, 647 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: plumb committee posts, etcetera. But the most sort of sensitive 648 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 1: issue is this question of who's sitting on what committees. 649 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 1: I remember there was this meeting that happened right off 650 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 1: the floor when one of the Conservatives was trying to 651 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: get a subcommittee gattle on the House Appropriations Committee, which 652 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 1: obviously dictates where government money has spent, a very powerful 653 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:09,840 Speaker 1: panel um and one of the Conservatives wanted to lead 654 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,279 Speaker 1: one of those subcommittees. And you know k Granger, who's 655 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: the chairwoman of that panel, and all her cardinals subcommittee 656 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 1: chairman who already have those positions met off the floor 657 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:22,759 Speaker 1: and we're like, McCarthy cannot do this. He's going to 658 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,520 Speaker 1: have a problem with us if he does this. McCarthy 659 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,400 Speaker 1: came out and said he has not promised any gabbles 660 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,800 Speaker 1: for this position and for these votes. But we saw 661 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,719 Speaker 1: one of those members get a subcommittee gabble one of 662 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,080 Speaker 1: those conservatives this week, and so there are a lot 663 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 1: of members who are, frankly, they don't trust McCarthy. They 664 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,759 Speaker 1: feel like he he has said a lot of things 665 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,760 Speaker 1: publicly over the years and then done different things privately. 666 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of distrust right now, and people 667 00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 1: are upset that a lot of these conservatives ended up 668 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 1: on these plush panels when they feel like they didn't 669 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 1: earn them. Yeah, that's going to be a problem from 670 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 1: McCarthy because he's going to need that when he wants 671 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,880 Speaker 1: to pass up right, that's exactly right. And also, you 672 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 1: know you mentioned the Rules Committee and wanting to know 673 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:08,880 Speaker 1: more about that. The reason that panel is significant is because, 674 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 1: like I said, they sort of dictate what bills look 675 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,759 Speaker 1: like that come to the floor, whether they're allowed to 676 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 1: have certain amendments or not. It's basically always been seen 677 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,680 Speaker 1: as the quote Speakers Committee sort of stocked full of 678 00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 1: the speaker's most loyal allies who will basically do the 679 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,360 Speaker 1: bidding of leadership. And it's been like that for decades, 680 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,759 Speaker 1: since the nineteen sixties or something. What McCarthy did was 681 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,080 Speaker 1: give conservatives all the power by putting them on these panels. 682 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 1: And that means chairmen and chairwomen who are you know, 683 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,320 Speaker 1: passing bills and committee and then sending them the Rules Panel. 684 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:41,800 Speaker 1: They have different views than a lot of these conservatives. 685 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,040 Speaker 1: You know, they might be more pragmatic, more moderate. But 686 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,919 Speaker 1: now these conservatives can take those bills and totally change 687 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 1: them to look like what they want to look like. 688 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,799 Speaker 1: And so that's going to cause again a lot of 689 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 1: internal drama amongst McCarthy's members. So who is on this 690 00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,480 Speaker 1: House Rules Committee? They're determining all that. This week we're 691 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,759 Speaker 1: going to see at least three conservatives, and that's going 692 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,440 Speaker 1: to be enough to basically have a veto power over everything. 693 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:07,319 Speaker 1: And then one of the thing I would say about 694 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:11,280 Speaker 1: the Rules Panel, its job is not only to decide 695 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,919 Speaker 1: what legislation comes to the floor. Its job is also 696 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 1: to decide what doesn't come to the floor. And that's 697 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,400 Speaker 1: is just as important because there's a lot of moderate 698 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 1: members who don't want to take votes on, you know, 699 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 1: issues that the base really loves. For instance, with Democrats, 700 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,160 Speaker 1: it was Medicare for All. Pelosi specifically made sure no 701 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,600 Speaker 1: amendment ever came to the floor on Medicare for all 702 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:33,680 Speaker 1: because she didn't want to put her front liners in 703 00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,680 Speaker 1: these very difficult positions. But now conservatives are going to 704 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,640 Speaker 1: make Republicans in districts that Biden one take a whole 705 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,879 Speaker 1: host of votes on really controversial things that the base loves, 706 00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,480 Speaker 1: but that would really hurt them politically. So again something 707 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:49,440 Speaker 1: to keep an eye on going forward. Oh, that is 708 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: so interesting, right, that makes a lot of sense. And 709 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:56,120 Speaker 1: there are a bunch of new Congress people right who 710 00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,400 Speaker 1: came from Biden districts. That's right. And now they're going 711 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,360 Speaker 1: to be having to take these votes that are no 712 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,000 Speaker 1: doubt going to be used in ads against them, which 713 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,520 Speaker 1: could potentially make them lose the House in the fall. 714 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 1: So again McCarthy putting his ambition to be speaker over 715 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,160 Speaker 1: perhaps the good of the majority in a lot of 716 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,160 Speaker 1: people's views. So I want to talk about the dead 717 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,880 Speaker 1: ceiling because that feels like a sort of a kind 718 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:23,360 Speaker 1: of anvil. If this is an episode of um road Runner, 719 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 1: that anvil is right over McCarthy's had, and also all 720 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,239 Speaker 1: of our heads, can you explain to us sort of 721 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,319 Speaker 1: where that is right now? Well, everybody's trying to figure 722 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,239 Speaker 1: out how they're gonna find a way to get out 723 00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:40,000 Speaker 1: of this. I mean, McCarthy has basically drawn this line 724 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,400 Speaker 1: in the Sands saying that they are not going to 725 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,319 Speaker 1: raise the dead ceiling unless they get Republicans get some 726 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:51,239 Speaker 1: sort of mandatory cuts, cuts to mandatory spending like Social Security, UH, Medicaid, etcetera. 727 00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,640 Speaker 1: But obviously Democrats control the Senate and the White House 728 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:56,960 Speaker 1: and they're not going to go for that. And so 729 00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:01,600 Speaker 1: the problem Republicans have is, for three times under Donald Trump, 730 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,720 Speaker 1: they raised the debts sailing without any cuts and without 731 00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:07,920 Speaker 1: even having a discussion about demands for these spending cuts 732 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,080 Speaker 1: now that you know they don't have power anymore, or 733 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,160 Speaker 1: they only have the House, they want to make these 734 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,080 Speaker 1: demands when they passed up their own opportunity to do 735 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,120 Speaker 1: something about this. And so number one, it looks you know, hypocritical. 736 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:23,480 Speaker 1: Number two, with Democrats not being willing to make these cuts, 737 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,759 Speaker 1: we could potentially see a default on the debt, which 738 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,840 Speaker 1: you know, the ex deadline everybody calls it, that's going 739 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,959 Speaker 1: to come up in June. And so you know, McCarthy 740 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,640 Speaker 1: is facing this threat of being outsted as speaker from 741 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,359 Speaker 1: conservatives if he were to just put a clean debt 742 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,640 Speaker 1: limit bill on the floor to you know, raise the 743 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,440 Speaker 1: debt ceiling without any cuts. And so it's going to 744 00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:46,680 Speaker 1: be up to a band of moderate Republicans to join 745 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,719 Speaker 1: with Democrats and the House to basically do this end 746 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,080 Speaker 1: run around McCarthy, uh to try to raise the debt 747 00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:56,560 Speaker 1: ceiling and avoid this sort of economic calamity that is 748 00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,040 Speaker 1: we're looking at right now, and that that's not easy 749 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,719 Speaker 1: to do, you know, it's own simple, but you know 750 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,279 Speaker 1: a lot of these Republicans, if they're willing to do that, 751 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,560 Speaker 1: the chances are. They're going to face their own primaries 752 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,200 Speaker 1: back home. They're going to get you know, assailed by 753 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,279 Speaker 1: people like Sean Hannity, Moore, Ingram, and so it's not 754 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,080 Speaker 1: as easy as it sounds for these guys. And so 755 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,279 Speaker 1: it's going to be ugly. And I think like for 756 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,000 Speaker 1: the first time in a long time, reporters on the 757 00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,880 Speaker 1: Hill are concerned that it's not only going to be 758 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,440 Speaker 1: you know, a downgrading of the US credit rating like 759 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,800 Speaker 1: we saw a couple of years ago amid the sprinksmanship, 760 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,399 Speaker 1: it could actually be a default of some sort, and 761 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:35,319 Speaker 1: that could have devastating consequences on every single American in 762 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:37,960 Speaker 1: various forms. I mean, that does seem like a real 763 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:42,000 Speaker 1: danger that could be imminent. That's right. And one of 764 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,480 Speaker 1: the big headlines that came out this week was that 765 00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,839 Speaker 1: House Republicans, McCarthy and these conservatives, they're trying to put 766 00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:52,799 Speaker 1: together this plan to quote prioritize payments when we hit 767 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,600 Speaker 1: the X States. So basically say, okay, if we're hitting 768 00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:59,240 Speaker 1: up against default, yes, Janet Yellen at the Treasury Department, 769 00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,839 Speaker 1: you're going to pay our creditors, You're going to pay 770 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,400 Speaker 1: Social Security, You're going to pay for the military but 771 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,200 Speaker 1: you're going to stop all this other funding, and basically 772 00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,759 Speaker 1: that would be across the board, cut to all these 773 00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,239 Speaker 1: programs from you know, food stamps, housing assistance to even 774 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,480 Speaker 1: you know, for Republicans who care about the border, it 775 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:18,960 Speaker 1: would even be border security that would get cut. So 776 00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,080 Speaker 1: the problem with this is Jack lu the previous Treasury 777 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,719 Speaker 1: secretary under Obama, he called this quote default by another name, 778 00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:30,080 Speaker 1: because you're still not paying bills that you've already authorized 779 00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,360 Speaker 1: spending for. And so it's it won't solve any problems. 780 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,520 Speaker 1: It likely will still result on the credit DOWNRD. And 781 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,560 Speaker 1: not only that, but Democrats will never pass a bill 782 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,520 Speaker 1: lining up this sort of strategy. They just won't go 783 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,800 Speaker 1: for it. You're gonna hit a sort of brinksmanship. I also, 784 00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:48,600 Speaker 1: I think, I mean, and again you know this better 785 00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:50,880 Speaker 1: than I do, but it does seem like McCarthy is 786 00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:55,200 Speaker 1: having a very hard time getting his people to even 787 00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:59,239 Speaker 1: do things he wants. So how is he going to 788 00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:02,040 Speaker 1: get that to sort of come along with something that 789 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,960 Speaker 1: he's sort of on the fence about anyway? Right? I mean, 790 00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,719 Speaker 1: getting these cuts past It's not the clearest thing to 791 00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:09,839 Speaker 1: do anyway, you know, And there's gonna be a lot 792 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,319 Speaker 1: of dissent about what to cut him, how to cut it, 793 00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,799 Speaker 1: and ultimately, if he can't get elected speaker, how can 794 00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:19,719 Speaker 1: he do more complicated bills? He can't. And so I 795 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,600 Speaker 1: think a lot of the question, you know Republicans are 796 00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,600 Speaker 1: asking right now privately, is how long will he be Speaker? 797 00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,040 Speaker 1: And what manner is he going to go out in 798 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:31,320 Speaker 1: terms of leaving the House McCarthy. You know, if he's 799 00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,279 Speaker 1: being realistic, should be thinking in legacy mode. What sort 800 00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,200 Speaker 1: of legacy does they want to leave? What's the last 801 00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:40,120 Speaker 1: thing he wants to do in Congress? And you know, 802 00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:43,120 Speaker 1: if he's thinking that way, perhaps he sort of falls 803 00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,960 Speaker 1: on his sword and says, look, Conservatives, like we we 804 00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,279 Speaker 1: put up a good fight. Democrats are not going to 805 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,200 Speaker 1: do this. We have to raise a dat ceiling and 806 00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:53,600 Speaker 1: tries to lead a portion of his conference to vote 807 00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,400 Speaker 1: with Democrats raise a dance ceiling before something terrible happens 808 00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,280 Speaker 1: to the economy, and then he would of course be outsted. 809 00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,400 Speaker 1: They would motion to vacate and they would have to 810 00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,600 Speaker 1: elect a new speaker, or he could do what we've 811 00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:06,840 Speaker 1: sort of seen him do in the past few months 812 00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,279 Speaker 1: and actually the past couple of years, which is he 813 00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:12,359 Speaker 1: sort of leans on his moderate Republican members to do 814 00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,719 Speaker 1: the hard job, right, and he plays the antagonist. He 815 00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:17,520 Speaker 1: was on the side of conservatives, so it gives them 816 00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,320 Speaker 1: sort of a wink and a nod to go ahead 817 00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,920 Speaker 1: and team up with Democrats or say something publicly that 818 00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:25,840 Speaker 1: would help him. We saw him do this in the 819 00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,839 Speaker 1: speaker's race quite effectively. Actually, it was moderate Republicans who 820 00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:31,640 Speaker 1: were saying, look, if we don't have McCarthy, we could 821 00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,919 Speaker 1: potentially see a speaker Hakim Jeffreys, which was never going 822 00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,479 Speaker 1: to happen, but it was a talking point that helped 823 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,759 Speaker 1: McCarthy and so they certainly circulated it. So will those 824 00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:44,720 Speaker 1: moderate Republicans take the weeknd the nod from McCarthy joined 825 00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,799 Speaker 1: with Democrats, But again, they're gonna get pummeled, so it's 826 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,600 Speaker 1: not easy. He's basically pushing these members out to do 827 00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,600 Speaker 1: the dirty work for him to try to save his speakership. 828 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,560 Speaker 1: So crazy, I mean, he's really gotten himself in an 829 00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,120 Speaker 1: impossible situation. Yeah me, and it's going to be tough. 830 00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,040 Speaker 1: And I mean, even if I think the dead ceiling, 831 00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:05,640 Speaker 1: the fact that it's coming in June now, which was 832 00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:07,920 Speaker 1: one of the big headlines that this week. It doesn't 833 00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:10,120 Speaker 1: give lawmakers a lot of time to figure this out. 834 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I think originally we are thinking we're going 835 00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,480 Speaker 1: to hit the dead ceiling in the fall, sometime around 836 00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:18,400 Speaker 1: like September October. That timeline means things are these conversations 837 00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:20,919 Speaker 1: need to happen right now. There has been a little 838 00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:24,840 Speaker 1: bit of talk about a quote discharge petition where five 839 00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:27,800 Speaker 1: Republicans will team up with all Democrats in the House 840 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,160 Speaker 1: to force a vote on a clean dead ceiling bill, 841 00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:33,759 Speaker 1: but even that has complications. It takes forever to do 842 00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:37,440 Speaker 1: and they would basically have to start the process like 843 00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,920 Speaker 1: in the next couple of days if they want to 844 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:43,759 Speaker 1: do this before that June ex deadline. So it's it's 845 00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:47,359 Speaker 1: really not looking good and it's anyways gas as where 846 00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:49,800 Speaker 1: this could go. One last thing I would mention on 847 00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,080 Speaker 1: the dead ceiling is Joe Mansion, who is in Davis, 848 00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:55,840 Speaker 1: I believe this week, who would hope So he floated 849 00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,680 Speaker 1: this idea of a quote rescue committee with McCarthy a 850 00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:03,120 Speaker 1: pair recently, basically suggesting to him, you guys raise the 851 00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,400 Speaker 1: debt ceiling with us, and we will form this panel 852 00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:11,280 Speaker 1: where they will look at mandatory spending, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etcetera. 853 00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,000 Speaker 1: And come up with ways to make them solvent in 854 00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,000 Speaker 1: the long run. And you know we'll do that together. 855 00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:19,400 Speaker 1: But the problem is this has been tried before with 856 00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:22,880 Speaker 1: the super Committee in Tleven and it failed up busmally, 857 00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,600 Speaker 1: So why would it work now when Washington is even 858 00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:30,279 Speaker 1: more partisan that we've ever seen. It's really hard to 859 00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:32,240 Speaker 1: predict where this is going to go. But that's something 860 00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:34,879 Speaker 1: else to keep an eye on. That could give them 861 00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:38,400 Speaker 1: a good cover though those Republicans right, if they wanted 862 00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,800 Speaker 1: to sign on it could. It certainly could, but probably 863 00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:45,160 Speaker 1: not enough of a cover to keep Matt Gates from 864 00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,080 Speaker 1: filing a motion to vacate Ken McCarthy and booting him 865 00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:54,480 Speaker 1: from Washington. My question is the talented Mr Santos. Yeah, 866 00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:59,919 Speaker 1: I mean he every day, he's single day there's I mean, 867 00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,359 Speaker 1: Drudge has like a little section on him. Now. I know. 868 00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:06,960 Speaker 1: I feel like every Washington publication probably just needs his 869 00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:11,719 Speaker 1: subhead somewhere on their website latest Santo's drama. It's just 870 00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:15,480 Speaker 1: it's crazy. I mean I remember this week reading that store. 871 00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:17,600 Speaker 1: I don't know if you saw that story about the 872 00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:22,240 Speaker 1: dog or the scarf, the dog, scamming a wounded veteran 873 00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:27,320 Speaker 1: and his assistant dog who needed emergency surgery, raising money 874 00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:31,040 Speaker 1: for that surgery, and then stealing the funds and not 875 00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:34,239 Speaker 1: letting the dog. You know, the dog ends up. It's 876 00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:36,319 Speaker 1: just horrible, like, how do you do this? How do 877 00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:38,200 Speaker 1: you do this? So what's going to happen to this guy? 878 00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:39,640 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously there's going to be a ton of 879 00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:42,920 Speaker 1: federal investigations, but the realities those things take time, and 880 00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:46,200 Speaker 1: House McCarthy, because of his very slim majority, he's not 881 00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:48,200 Speaker 1: going to move to punish the sky in any way 882 00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:49,960 Speaker 1: center for him. He's seated on a committee. I think 883 00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:53,120 Speaker 1: it's a small business committee, given that he's lied about 884 00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,480 Speaker 1: everything when he past, right, McCarthy sort of line on 885 00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:00,080 Speaker 1: this is, you know, Republicans or anybody who's acute as 886 00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:02,719 Speaker 1: if something, you know, an investigation has to play out, 887 00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,319 Speaker 1: there will be a House Ethics Committee investigation as well. 888 00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:11,480 Speaker 1: But again, that panel rarely rebukes members and takes forever 889 00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:13,600 Speaker 1: to do anything. So this guy is going to be 890 00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:16,680 Speaker 1: in Congress for what Yeah, can you just explain one 891 00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:18,680 Speaker 1: last thing and then I promise I'll let you go. 892 00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:23,759 Speaker 1: There was talk about McCarthy stripping the Ethics I mean, 893 00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:26,440 Speaker 1: the Ethics Committee, by the way, has never found anyone, 894 00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:30,000 Speaker 1: has never punished anyone ever, so I mean not ever. 895 00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:33,520 Speaker 1: But you know, it's not famous for its uh you know, 896 00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:37,279 Speaker 1: swift justice. But is that being stripped or now. Yeah, 897 00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,640 Speaker 1: So there's just outside sort of congressional ethics watchdog who 898 00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,480 Speaker 1: in the past has made referrals to the Ethics Committee, 899 00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:47,000 Speaker 1: and a lot of them have actually gone places, although 900 00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:50,399 Speaker 1: like you said, the Committee rarely punishes anyone because they're 901 00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:53,560 Speaker 1: run by lawmakers who don't want to be punished themselves. 902 00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:58,399 Speaker 1: So there's that conflict. Basically, McCarthy is deactivating that sort 903 00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:01,640 Speaker 1: of outside watchdog group, and so there's a lot of 904 00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:04,640 Speaker 1: concern about who's going to be telling the public about 905 00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:06,440 Speaker 1: some of these things that are not happening. I mean, 906 00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,160 Speaker 1: in theory, this group could still do their investigations and 907 00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,680 Speaker 1: go public and try to sort of force some sort 908 00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,759 Speaker 1: of public action on members. But the fact that there's 909 00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:17,680 Speaker 1: no longer going to be this partnership, I mean, leaves 910 00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:20,239 Speaker 1: Congress open for a lot of um, a lot of 911 00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:24,000 Speaker 1: misuse and abuse. So it's going to be a problem. Yeah, 912 00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:26,879 Speaker 1: thank you so much, Rachel I hope you will come back. 913 00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:37,680 Speaker 1: I will anytime. Molly John Fast, Jesse Cannon Trump. You're 914 00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:41,200 Speaker 1: always wondering. Is it the cognitive decline? Is it having 915 00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:44,640 Speaker 1: no filter? Is he just a moron? Tell us what 916 00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:47,480 Speaker 1: happened and what your take is. We're talking about the 917 00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:50,759 Speaker 1: ee Gene Carol case. E Gene Carol, friend of the 918 00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:54,160 Speaker 1: show and friend of mine and friend of my mother's 919 00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,799 Speaker 1: a long time ago, is pressing charges against Trump. They 920 00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:01,120 Speaker 1: are going to trial, actually quite soon. During one of 921 00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:06,040 Speaker 1: the depositions, Trump made this mistake confusing a picture of 922 00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:09,320 Speaker 1: ee Gene with a picture of Marla Maples, who we 923 00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:12,080 Speaker 1: should note for those who don't remember ancient history, as 924 00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:16,880 Speaker 1: his former wife. One of Trump's typical, very classy defenses 925 00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:20,319 Speaker 1: was that he would not rape Egean because she wasn't 926 00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:23,160 Speaker 1: hot enough. This is, like, by the way, his favorite 927 00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:29,920 Speaker 1: defense because it's both misogynistic and misogynistic and also misogynistic. 928 00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:36,280 Speaker 1: This confusion of Eugene Carol and Marla Maples actually shows 929 00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:42,160 Speaker 1: that he thought she was his wife. Ergo, he did 930 00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:46,320 Speaker 1: find her attractive enough to want to engage with, and 931 00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:50,280 Speaker 1: thus he gets a hearty fuck you from us. Donald 932 00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:54,280 Speaker 1: Trump is our moment of fun Gray yet again, forever 933 00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:59,600 Speaker 1: and ever and always a true King, true King. That's 934 00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:03,920 Speaker 1: it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, 935 00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:06,879 Speaker 1: and Friday to your the best minds in politics makes 936 00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,200 Speaker 1: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, 937 00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:13,439 Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. 938 00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:19,360 Speaker 1: And again, thanks for listening. H