1
00:00:17,242 --> 00:00:27,802
Speaker 1: Push Kidd. Last episode, we heard American Petroleum Institute President

2
00:00:27,962 --> 00:00:31,722
Speaker 1: Mike Summers talk about his concern that a small fringe

3
00:00:32,442 --> 00:00:33,962
Speaker 1: was threatening our way of life.

4
00:00:34,882 --> 00:00:39,162
Speaker 2: A small fringe is stuck in the past. They oppose growth,

5
00:00:39,442 --> 00:00:44,882
Speaker 2: expansion and new infrastructure. There are against new jobs, higher

6
00:00:44,882 --> 00:00:45,762
Speaker 2: living standards.

7
00:00:46,562 --> 00:00:50,482
Speaker 1: Trump, the president with the most fossil fuel money backing

8
00:00:50,802 --> 00:00:55,282
Speaker 1: of any president ever, is not so subtle. What they've

9
00:00:55,322 --> 00:01:01,402
Speaker 1: done to the country is just incredible. The environmentalists, I

10
00:01:01,482 --> 00:01:03,162
Speaker 1: mean they are terrorists.

11
00:01:03,442 --> 00:01:04,162
Speaker 3: They were terrorists.

12
00:01:04,202 --> 00:01:06,922
Speaker 4: I call it the environmental terrorists.

13
00:01:07,642 --> 00:01:11,842
Speaker 1: Repression of descent is a key marker of fascist as

14
00:01:11,882 --> 00:01:15,241
Speaker 1: is the targeting of an internal enemy, which for the

15
00:01:15,241 --> 00:01:21,842
Speaker 1: Trump administration includes climate activists, the nebulous Catchell Antifa, and

16
00:01:22,002 --> 00:01:24,801
Speaker 1: of course immigrants breaking.

17
00:01:24,482 --> 00:01:27,482
Speaker 5: Into people's cars and homes and scenes that evoke Nazi

18
00:01:27,521 --> 00:01:29,362
Speaker 5: Germany or Stalinist Russia.

19
00:01:29,922 --> 00:01:32,482
Speaker 6: What's happening right now in America is evil and it

20
00:01:32,562 --> 00:01:33,682
Speaker 6: is completely illegal.

21
00:01:34,321 --> 00:01:37,441
Speaker 1: We're even hearing about it from folks who helped elect

22
00:01:37,521 --> 00:01:41,321
Speaker 1: Trump in the first place. You don't want militarized people

23
00:01:41,441 --> 00:01:44,962
Speaker 1: in the streets just roaming around snatching people up. Are

24
00:01:44,961 --> 00:01:47,722
Speaker 1: we really going to be that the Gestapo? Where's your papers.

25
00:01:48,082 --> 00:01:49,562
Speaker 5: Is that what we've come to, and.

26
00:01:49,562 --> 00:01:54,002
Speaker 1: Of course it's all connected. The immigration enforcement apparatus is

27
00:01:54,082 --> 00:01:58,082
Speaker 1: being used to punish non citizens who engage in protest

28
00:01:58,162 --> 00:01:58,761
Speaker 1: of any kind.

29
00:01:58,842 --> 00:02:04,761
Speaker 7: For example, arresting and threatening to deport non citizens student.

30
00:02:04,522 --> 00:02:06,802
Speaker 8: And faculty for engaging.

31
00:02:06,322 --> 00:02:10,402
Speaker 2: In luliful political protests is a practice we associate with

32
00:02:10,442 --> 00:02:11,842
Speaker 2: a card to regimes.

33
00:02:12,402 --> 00:02:14,561
Speaker 1: For the record, the courts have ruled over and over

34
00:02:14,602 --> 00:02:18,322
Speaker 1: again that non citizens do have the right to free speech,

35
00:02:18,562 --> 00:02:20,682
Speaker 1: and of course we laid out in our season the

36
00:02:20,722 --> 00:02:23,682
Speaker 1: real free speech threat. How the creation of the Department

37
00:02:23,682 --> 00:02:27,522
Speaker 1: of Homeland Security and the US War on Terror led

38
00:02:27,642 --> 00:02:31,522
Speaker 1: very quickly to an expanded definition of terrorists, which led

39
00:02:31,522 --> 00:02:35,442
Speaker 1: to the targeting of environmental and animal rights activists not

40
00:02:35,522 --> 00:02:40,162
Speaker 1: just in the US but everywhere. Here's a clip from

41
00:02:40,202 --> 00:02:41,482
Speaker 1: a UN report about it.

42
00:02:43,802 --> 00:02:49,522
Speaker 4: We don't have a globally agreed definition of terrorism. As

43
00:02:49,562 --> 00:02:53,362
Speaker 4: the ash was smoldering at the Twin Towers had fallen

44
00:02:53,722 --> 00:02:57,682
Speaker 4: Security Council meets, and in that first month they create

45
00:02:57,842 --> 00:03:03,642
Speaker 4: a new resolution UN Security Council Resolution thirteen seventy three.

46
00:03:03,802 --> 00:03:10,162
Speaker 9: We have adopted a very ambitious, comprehensive strategy.

47
00:03:11,242 --> 00:03:16,002
Speaker 4: Their vortage for throughout the m.

48
00:03:15,962 --> 00:03:17,042
Speaker 3: Meeting as a jount.

49
00:03:18,442 --> 00:03:22,242
Speaker 10: Requires them to legislate against terrorism, but there's no agreed

50
00:03:22,322 --> 00:03:26,042
Speaker 10: definition of terrorism. So each state essentially has got to

51
00:03:26,082 --> 00:03:30,202
Speaker 10: define what terrorism is on its own terms, and the

52
00:03:30,362 --> 00:03:34,202
Speaker 10: absence of a common definition has meant that there's been

53
00:03:34,242 --> 00:03:38,642
Speaker 10: this real ripeness for abuse. States get to define whomever

54
00:03:38,682 --> 00:03:40,482
Speaker 10: they like is a terrorist.

55
00:03:40,082 --> 00:03:42,762
Speaker 11: With almost no consequence at the domestic level.

56
00:03:43,362 --> 00:03:44,322
Speaker 1: And so what we're.

57
00:03:44,162 --> 00:03:48,322
Speaker 10: Seeing around the globe is the imprisonment of civil society.

58
00:03:48,362 --> 00:03:48,682
Speaker 1: Actor.

59
00:03:49,282 --> 00:03:52,762
Speaker 10: We're seeing direct targeting. In some cases, they're killing by

60
00:03:53,442 --> 00:03:56,082
Speaker 10: the permissive framework of counter terrorism.

61
00:03:56,842 --> 00:04:01,122
Speaker 1: Now the Trump administration is targeting civil society groups writ large,

62
00:04:01,362 --> 00:04:04,602
Speaker 1: using foreign influence laws to cut off funding to NGOs

63
00:04:04,602 --> 00:04:09,202
Speaker 1: it doesn't like, and launching federal investigations into organizations that

64
00:04:09,282 --> 00:04:13,122
Speaker 1: focus too much on civil rights or climate change or

65
00:04:13,162 --> 00:04:17,162
Speaker 1: whatever else he's decided he doesn't like that month. In fact,

66
00:04:17,522 --> 00:04:20,482
Speaker 1: nowhere have the fingerprints of the fossil fuel industry on

67
00:04:20,522 --> 00:04:24,402
Speaker 1: this trend been so visible as during the two terms

68
00:04:24,402 --> 00:04:29,722
Speaker 1: of Trump's presidency. That's our story today. After this quick break,

69
00:04:30,282 --> 00:04:32,402
Speaker 1: I'm Ami Westervelt, and this is drilled.

70
00:04:47,362 --> 00:04:50,522
Speaker 12: We have to see more and more dangerous and distructive

71
00:04:50,642 --> 00:04:53,002
Speaker 12: tactics going to season destructure project.

72
00:04:53,562 --> 00:04:55,762
Speaker 4: I'm a shut them now altogether.

73
00:04:56,562 --> 00:04:59,242
Speaker 1: This is Derek Morgan talking at a meeting of the

74
00:04:59,282 --> 00:05:04,202
Speaker 1: American Legislative Exchange Council in twenty sixteen. At the time,

75
00:05:04,282 --> 00:05:07,041
Speaker 1: Morgan was the top lobbyist for the American Fuel and

76
00:05:07,082 --> 00:05:12,882
Speaker 1: Petrochemical Manufacturers, the trade group for refiners, pipe and petrochemical companies.

77
00:05:13,322 --> 00:05:15,882
Speaker 1: They're kind of like the American Petroleum Institute for a

78
00:05:15,922 --> 00:05:19,682
Speaker 1: different part of the industry, and instead of being dominated

79
00:05:19,682 --> 00:05:25,082
Speaker 1: by Exxon, they're dominated by coke industries. Anyway, Morgan was

80
00:05:25,122 --> 00:05:29,682
Speaker 1: there to pitch conservative state legislators on a new sample

81
00:05:29,802 --> 00:05:32,922
Speaker 1: bill that they could take home and adopt to increase

82
00:05:33,002 --> 00:05:38,041
Speaker 1: jail time and fines for protests, specifically protests near big

83
00:05:38,122 --> 00:05:43,602
Speaker 1: infrastructure projects like I don't know oil pipelinestistics on.

84
00:05:43,802 --> 00:05:45,562
Speaker 8: The Dapple protests.

85
00:05:45,562 --> 00:05:49,762
Speaker 12: So between ten and fifteen dollars protesters, seven hundred and

86
00:05:49,802 --> 00:05:53,722
Speaker 12: sixty one arrests, ninety four percent of those from out

87
00:05:53,722 --> 00:06:00,922
Speaker 12: of state, and third or really that happened for ourcrineral records.

88
00:06:01,202 --> 00:06:05,122
Speaker 1: These are all classic anti protest talking points, especially the

89
00:06:05,162 --> 00:06:08,882
Speaker 1: out of state activist thing which fossil fueld companies in particular,

90
00:06:08,922 --> 00:06:11,562
Speaker 1: have been using since the early nineteen hundreds.

91
00:06:11,962 --> 00:06:13,162
Speaker 13: What we wanted to do was.

92
00:06:13,122 --> 00:06:16,282
Speaker 12: Really strengthen the laws on trust me so I would

93
00:06:16,322 --> 00:06:20,882
Speaker 12: see that through as well as auto legislation with highline

94
00:06:21,042 --> 00:06:21,842
Speaker 12: criminal trustment.

95
00:06:23,802 --> 00:06:28,522
Speaker 1: Trespassing laws of course already existed in all of the states,

96
00:06:28,602 --> 00:06:31,122
Speaker 1: just like private property laws and all kinds of other things.

97
00:06:31,482 --> 00:06:35,482
Speaker 1: What these guys were really worried about was protest, particularly

98
00:06:35,682 --> 00:06:39,882
Speaker 1: the Standing Rock protest, the largest Indigenous led protest in

99
00:06:39,922 --> 00:06:42,962
Speaker 1: the country in decades, and one of the largest climate

100
00:06:43,002 --> 00:06:46,682
Speaker 1: protests in the world. That's the Dapple protest that you

101
00:06:46,722 --> 00:06:51,082
Speaker 1: heard Morgan reference earlier. It started in twenty sixteen, but

102
00:06:51,162 --> 00:06:53,682
Speaker 1: by the time Trump had been elected and took office,

103
00:06:53,962 --> 00:06:57,442
Speaker 1: the protest was ending and the backlash was getting going.

104
00:06:58,242 --> 00:07:01,921
Speaker 1: Derek Morgan, the lobbyist you just heard talking there, he's

105
00:07:02,002 --> 00:07:06,082
Speaker 1: a VP at the Heritage Foundation today. That's the organization

106
00:07:06,202 --> 00:07:11,002
Speaker 1: that's spearheaded Project twenty twenty five. Before he got into Advocate,

107
00:07:11,562 --> 00:07:13,762
Speaker 1: he was a lawyer working for a law firm that

108
00:07:13,882 --> 00:07:19,602
Speaker 1: might sound familiar to listeners of this podcast, Pressure Gibson,

109
00:07:19,682 --> 00:07:23,322
Speaker 1: Dunn and Crutcher. That's the firm that eventually accused Greenpeace

110
00:07:23,362 --> 00:07:27,562
Speaker 1: of orchestrating the Standing Rock protests, winning their pipeline company

111
00:07:27,562 --> 00:07:31,562
Speaker 1: client a settlement of over three hundred million dollars. We

112
00:07:31,642 --> 00:07:34,082
Speaker 1: did a whole season on it. Check it out season

113
00:07:34,082 --> 00:07:38,362
Speaker 1: twelve's left. Before Morgan worked at Gibson Dunn, he was

114
00:07:38,402 --> 00:07:42,682
Speaker 1: senior staff to Vice President Dick Cheney. The laws that

115
00:07:42,682 --> 00:07:45,522
Speaker 1: were written and passed as a response to Standing Rock

116
00:07:45,602 --> 00:07:48,402
Speaker 1: during Trump's first presidency put in place a lot of

117
00:07:48,402 --> 00:07:52,562
Speaker 1: the restrictions that were then used against campus pro Palestinian

118
00:07:52,602 --> 00:07:58,682
Speaker 1: protesters during his second term. Earlier this year, Marco Rubio

119
00:07:58,762 --> 00:08:01,082
Speaker 1: did a little tour of an oil rich part of

120
00:08:01,122 --> 00:08:05,362
Speaker 1: the Latin American and Caribbean region, stopping in Guyana and

121
00:08:05,402 --> 00:08:08,882
Speaker 1: then Surinam. He wanted to talk about oil, but the

122
00:08:08,922 --> 00:08:13,082
Speaker 1: press corps kept asking him about the targeting of protesters

123
00:08:13,162 --> 00:08:16,362
Speaker 1: back home. First it was a Reuters reporter at the

124
00:08:16,362 --> 00:08:17,962
Speaker 1: press conference in Guyana.

125
00:08:19,122 --> 00:08:23,162
Speaker 7: Mister Secretary, a Turkish student in Boston was detained and

126
00:08:23,242 --> 00:08:26,522
Speaker 7: handcuffed on the street by playing clothes agents. A year ago,

127
00:08:26,562 --> 00:08:29,482
Speaker 7: she wrote an opinion piece about the Gaza War. Could

128
00:08:29,482 --> 00:08:34,122
Speaker 7: you help us understand what the specific action she took

129
00:08:34,322 --> 00:08:36,162
Speaker 7: led to her visa being a revolt.

130
00:08:36,362 --> 00:08:37,482
Speaker 11: Let me be abundantly clear.

131
00:08:37,521 --> 00:08:39,521
Speaker 9: Okay, if you go apply for a visa right now

132
00:08:39,562 --> 00:08:42,122
Speaker 9: anywhere in the world, let me just send this message out.

133
00:08:42,281 --> 00:08:44,202
Speaker 9: If you apply for a visa to enter the United

134
00:08:44,242 --> 00:08:46,562
Speaker 9: States and be a student, and you tell us that

135
00:08:46,641 --> 00:08:49,002
Speaker 9: the reason why you're coming to the United States is

136
00:08:49,041 --> 00:08:51,201
Speaker 9: not just because you want to write op eds, because

137
00:08:51,202 --> 00:08:53,562
Speaker 9: you want to participate in movements that are involved in

138
00:08:53,602 --> 00:08:58,242
Speaker 9: doing things like vandalizing universities, harassing students, taking over buildings,

139
00:08:58,281 --> 00:08:59,242
Speaker 9: creating a ruckus.

140
00:08:59,442 --> 00:09:00,642
Speaker 1: We're not going to give you a visa.

141
00:09:01,442 --> 00:09:03,722
Speaker 9: If you lie to us and get a visa and

142
00:09:03,761 --> 00:09:06,321
Speaker 9: then enter the United States and with that visa participate

143
00:09:06,362 --> 00:09:08,162
Speaker 9: in that sort of activity, We're going to take away

144
00:09:08,202 --> 00:09:10,562
Speaker 9: your visa and we have a right, like every country

145
00:09:10,561 --> 00:09:12,842
Speaker 9: in the world, right to remove you from our country.

146
00:09:13,122 --> 00:09:14,122
Speaker 11: So it's just that simple.

147
00:09:14,641 --> 00:09:16,962
Speaker 9: I think it's crazy. I think it's stupid for any

148
00:09:16,962 --> 00:09:19,161
Speaker 9: country in the world to welcome people.

149
00:09:18,842 --> 00:09:19,521
Speaker 11: Into their country.

150
00:09:19,561 --> 00:09:22,401
Speaker 9: They're going to go to your universities as visitors. They're

151
00:09:22,482 --> 00:09:25,962
Speaker 9: visitors and say I'm going to your universities to start

152
00:09:26,002 --> 00:09:26,482
Speaker 9: a riot.

153
00:09:27,641 --> 00:09:30,962
Speaker 1: At this point, you can see the Guyanese leaders nervously

154
00:09:31,041 --> 00:09:35,401
Speaker 1: exchanging glances and for good reason. This is a wild answer.

155
00:09:36,002 --> 00:09:38,242
Speaker 1: First of all, students who go to the US to

156
00:09:38,322 --> 00:09:41,122
Speaker 1: study and then decide to take part in a protest

157
00:09:41,281 --> 00:09:46,002
Speaker 1: didn't lie on their visa application. They didn't immigrate solely

158
00:09:46,041 --> 00:09:49,322
Speaker 1: to take part in protests. They might not have even known,

159
00:09:49,401 --> 00:09:52,202
Speaker 1: in fact, almost certainly didn't know that they were going

160
00:09:52,281 --> 00:09:55,761
Speaker 1: to take part in One second, as I mentioned earlier

161
00:09:55,801 --> 00:10:00,161
Speaker 1: in this episode, the first amendment extends to visitors, as

162
00:10:00,242 --> 00:10:04,362
Speaker 1: Rubio calls them. The next day, Rubio's entourage moved on

163
00:10:04,442 --> 00:10:06,761
Speaker 1: to Surinam, and The New York Times hit him with

164
00:10:06,801 --> 00:10:07,801
Speaker 1: another version of this.

165
00:10:07,842 --> 00:10:13,561
Speaker 6: Question, related to China. In twenty nineteen, you supported legislation

166
00:10:13,722 --> 00:10:16,642
Speaker 6: to have the US government support the protesters in Hong Kong,

167
00:10:16,681 --> 00:10:19,801
Speaker 6: the pro democracy protesters, and mostly the protests are peaceful,

168
00:10:19,881 --> 00:10:23,362
Speaker 6: but also occasionally the disrupted public life. And so based

169
00:10:23,401 --> 00:10:27,042
Speaker 6: on your rationale for deporting campus protesters in the US,

170
00:10:27,362 --> 00:10:29,962
Speaker 6: would you now support the Chinese Commanist Party or Hong

171
00:10:30,041 --> 00:10:33,321
Speaker 6: Kong authorities supporting foreigners who took part in those protests

172
00:10:33,362 --> 00:10:34,042
Speaker 6: in twenty nine.

173
00:10:34,041 --> 00:10:35,522
Speaker 9: So, the people that we're getting rid of in our

174
00:10:35,561 --> 00:10:39,281
Speaker 9: country are vandalizing. They're not protesters. They're taking over college campuses.

175
00:10:39,281 --> 00:10:42,202
Speaker 9: They're harassing fellow students. We let them in our country

176
00:10:42,202 --> 00:10:43,842
Speaker 9: to study. They didn't say I want to go to

177
00:10:43,921 --> 00:10:46,442
Speaker 9: university and I want to vandalize your library, and I

178
00:10:46,442 --> 00:10:48,122
Speaker 9: want to wear a mask over my face like if

179
00:10:48,122 --> 00:10:50,561
Speaker 9: it's Halloween and terrorized people. We didn't give them a

180
00:10:50,641 --> 00:10:51,521
Speaker 9: visa to do any of that.

181
00:10:52,641 --> 00:10:56,842
Speaker 1: Keep in mind Rubio was saying this as masked ice agents.

182
00:10:56,962 --> 00:10:59,161
Speaker 1: We're terrorizing the city of Minneapolis.

183
00:10:59,561 --> 00:11:01,842
Speaker 9: So we don't want those people in our country. They're

184
00:11:01,881 --> 00:11:05,602
Speaker 9: going beyond demonstration. They are going and they're creating a ruckus.

185
00:11:05,641 --> 00:11:09,002
Speaker 9: They are creating riots basically on campus, and it's unfair

186
00:11:09,041 --> 00:11:10,722
Speaker 9: for students. People pay a lot of money to go

187
00:11:10,722 --> 00:11:12,482
Speaker 9: to these they borrow money to go these schools. You

188
00:11:12,521 --> 00:11:15,602
Speaker 9: can't even go to class because some lunatic who's covering

189
00:11:15,641 --> 00:11:19,002
Speaker 9: their face is running through campus, spray painting things, harassing people,

190
00:11:19,161 --> 00:11:20,401
Speaker 9: and they're in my country.

191
00:11:20,122 --> 00:11:20,641
Speaker 5: As a guest.

192
00:11:20,881 --> 00:11:22,561
Speaker 9: We want them out, every one of them.

193
00:11:22,561 --> 00:11:22,961
Speaker 5: I find.

194
00:11:23,002 --> 00:11:25,362
Speaker 9: We're going to kick them out again.

195
00:11:25,521 --> 00:11:30,162
Speaker 1: In these press conferences, it's fossil fuels, American might a

196
00:11:30,202 --> 00:11:34,042
Speaker 1: lot of reals, strongman, tough guy rhetoric and targeting of

197
00:11:34,082 --> 00:11:38,602
Speaker 1: a minority group that's causing problems. Or in Rubio speak,

198
00:11:39,002 --> 00:11:45,522
Speaker 1: a ruckus. We talked interseason Carbon Bros. With Non Toxic

199
00:11:45,801 --> 00:11:50,321
Speaker 1: about the connection between male identity and particularly American male identity,

200
00:11:50,442 --> 00:11:53,602
Speaker 1: and fossil fuels and the way that environmental and climate

201
00:11:53,641 --> 00:11:56,442
Speaker 1: policy can then be seen as not just an attack

202
00:11:56,482 --> 00:12:00,482
Speaker 1: on America, like Doctor Brule explained last episode, but also

203
00:12:00,681 --> 00:12:03,722
Speaker 1: as an attack on masculinity. You hear this in the

204
00:12:03,722 --> 00:12:06,641
Speaker 1: way that folks like Jordan Peterson talk about climate.

205
00:12:08,881 --> 00:12:12,282
Speaker 3: You know, it's an intrinsic part of life to feel

206
00:12:12,281 --> 00:12:15,922
Speaker 3: guilty in relationship to nature and to feel guilty in

207
00:12:15,962 --> 00:12:20,281
Speaker 3: relationship to culture. No, it's difficult for us to live

208
00:12:20,322 --> 00:12:23,602
Speaker 3: in harmony with the natural world and for the natural

209
00:12:23,641 --> 00:12:25,641
Speaker 3: world to live in harmony with us, and so we

210
00:12:26,041 --> 00:12:28,801
Speaker 3: have that sense intrinsically that there's a lack in us

211
00:12:28,801 --> 00:12:33,881
Speaker 3: that needs to be redressed, and unfortunately that can be

212
00:12:34,041 --> 00:12:39,281
Speaker 3: weaponized and has been. And what I see happening to

213
00:12:39,681 --> 00:12:42,881
Speaker 3: young men that we have this sense in the world

214
00:12:42,921 --> 00:12:46,402
Speaker 3: that human beings live in antagonism to nature, and that

215
00:12:46,442 --> 00:12:51,201
Speaker 3: we're actually a malevolent force, and that our social structures,

216
00:12:51,681 --> 00:12:54,841
Speaker 3: which are clearly capable of the commission of atrocity, are

217
00:12:54,881 --> 00:12:57,602
Speaker 3: fundamentally oppressive patriarchal in their nature.

218
00:12:57,641 --> 00:13:01,002
Speaker 14: And so then if you're a male in a society

219
00:13:01,041 --> 00:13:06,002
Speaker 14: with that ethos, you're the motive force that drives you

220
00:13:06,082 --> 00:13:11,681
Speaker 14: into the world to live is associated with rapaciousness and

221
00:13:12,161 --> 00:13:17,482
Speaker 14: despoilation on the natural front, and then oppression and atrocity

222
00:13:17,602 --> 00:13:21,281
Speaker 14: on the social front. Well, then if you're the least

223
00:13:21,322 --> 00:13:26,362
Speaker 14: bit conscientious, because this sort of accusation hurts conscientious young

224
00:13:26,442 --> 00:13:30,321
Speaker 14: men the most, then the best you can do is, well,

225
00:13:30,401 --> 00:13:32,201
Speaker 14: let's say castrate yourself.

226
00:13:32,362 --> 00:13:33,122
Speaker 3: How would that be?

227
00:13:35,521 --> 00:13:37,322
Speaker 1: You also hear it in the way the big tech

228
00:13:37,362 --> 00:13:40,482
Speaker 1: guys are thinking and talking about this stuff, which is

229
00:13:40,602 --> 00:13:44,242
Speaker 1: less climate is a hoax, and more unchecked climate change

230
00:13:44,362 --> 00:13:46,922
Speaker 1: is going to send the unwashed masses after us. What

231
00:13:47,002 --> 00:13:49,761
Speaker 1: do we do? This harkens back to a certain strain

232
00:13:49,921 --> 00:13:54,122
Speaker 1: of American male identity too, as Hannah Morris laid out

233
00:13:54,122 --> 00:13:58,602
Speaker 1: in her book Apocalyptic Authoritarianism, particularly with respect to the

234
00:13:58,641 --> 00:14:01,121
Speaker 1: peak oil movement in the early two thousands.

235
00:14:01,962 --> 00:14:07,042
Speaker 11: And they learned about this peak oil and this cops

236
00:14:07,041 --> 00:14:10,042
Speaker 11: of civilization, and this provide them a sense of control,

237
00:14:10,161 --> 00:14:13,802
Speaker 11: a sense of power because of feeling like they are

238
00:14:13,842 --> 00:14:17,761
Speaker 11: among a minority, a small minority of people who knew

239
00:14:17,881 --> 00:14:21,602
Speaker 11: what the future holds, and that they can then navigate

240
00:14:21,642 --> 00:14:24,762
Speaker 11: through that through their sort of rugged individualism, the s

241
00:14:24,842 --> 00:14:29,122
Speaker 11: frontiersmen kind of identity and start tapping into really longstanding

242
00:14:29,482 --> 00:14:35,802
Speaker 11: American masculine identities of feeling as though there's a special

243
00:14:35,842 --> 00:14:40,522
Speaker 11: trait among American men who can really grapple with harsh

244
00:14:40,602 --> 00:14:43,841
Speaker 11: conditions and build a new society, build a new civilization.

245
00:14:44,802 --> 00:14:47,922
Speaker 1: This is being echoed again today in the rhetoric of

246
00:14:47,962 --> 00:14:52,442
Speaker 1: the guys pushing these so called network state idea. When

247
00:14:52,442 --> 00:14:55,561
Speaker 1: Trump and Jade Vance were beating their chests and talking

248
00:14:55,561 --> 00:14:59,922
Speaker 1: about taking over Greenland, yes they were doing classics strongman

249
00:15:00,122 --> 00:15:03,842
Speaker 1: fascism stuff, but they were also pursuing Greenland for a

250
00:15:03,962 --> 00:15:09,402
Speaker 1: very specific reason. The Peter teelbacked company Praxis had tried

251
00:15:09,442 --> 00:15:12,762
Speaker 1: to buy Greenland for the purposes of turning it into

252
00:15:12,802 --> 00:15:16,802
Speaker 1: a network state. That's a neo feudal concept where countries

253
00:15:16,922 --> 00:15:21,482
Speaker 1: are replaced by corporate controlled regions or, in the euphemistic

254
00:15:21,561 --> 00:15:26,201
Speaker 1: language of the network state bros, free economic zones. Anyway,

255
00:15:26,242 --> 00:15:29,842
Speaker 1: Praxice had tried to buy Greenland and failed, but since

256
00:15:30,042 --> 00:15:34,402
Speaker 1: Teal had funded both Trump's campaign and Praxis, they just

257
00:15:35,122 --> 00:15:38,682
Speaker 1: tried again. This time with a Teal vance Pick as

258
00:15:38,722 --> 00:15:43,242
Speaker 1: the US ambassador to Denmark. Here's Practice founder Dryden Brown

259
00:15:43,681 --> 00:15:46,882
Speaker 1: expounding on some of his beliefs in a really interesting

260
00:15:46,922 --> 00:15:52,722
Speaker 1: interview with Amanda Cassette on Endgame. The parallels to peakists, colonialism,

261
00:15:53,042 --> 00:15:56,162
Speaker 1: and little boys in rocket jammys are heart miss.

262
00:15:56,602 --> 00:15:59,242
Speaker 5: In the beginning, you know, we were talking about you know,

263
00:15:59,322 --> 00:16:03,162
Speaker 5: traditional Western values. We were you know, eating eating raw meat,

264
00:16:03,242 --> 00:16:05,162
Speaker 5: drinking eggs. We were like we had a suit of

265
00:16:05,282 --> 00:16:07,562
Speaker 5: armor in our in the apartment. I think there are

266
00:16:07,561 --> 00:16:09,841
Speaker 5: people who sort of found Found Practice, found us and

267
00:16:10,162 --> 00:16:13,482
Speaker 5: thought it was maybe like an enclave of sanity. Maybe

268
00:16:13,482 --> 00:16:15,242
Speaker 5: it was like a you know, a better place to

269
00:16:15,322 --> 00:16:17,562
Speaker 5: be like a guy. Who's a better place to be like

270
00:16:17,802 --> 00:16:19,882
Speaker 5: a man. There are a ton of women in Practice too.

271
00:16:20,042 --> 00:16:23,002
Speaker 5: It turns out that women didn't like the sort of

272
00:16:23,082 --> 00:16:27,082
Speaker 5: you know, COVID man, double vaxed mask wearing soy man.

273
00:16:28,202 --> 00:16:31,162
Speaker 1: All these folks, from Trump and Rubio to Dryden Brown

274
00:16:31,282 --> 00:16:34,802
Speaker 1: and Peter tele complain about the woke mob and snowflake

275
00:16:34,882 --> 00:16:38,762
Speaker 1: liberals cramping their style. They think Gota Tunberg is the

276
00:16:38,882 --> 00:16:43,162
Speaker 1: anti Christ. Literally in Teal's case, They long for the

277
00:16:43,242 --> 00:16:47,802
Speaker 1: days when men were real men. All while not really

278
00:16:48,002 --> 00:16:51,442
Speaker 1: fitting the bill themselves. It's hard to believe that any

279
00:16:51,442 --> 00:16:54,082
Speaker 1: of these guys has ever thrown a punch let alone

280
00:16:54,202 --> 00:16:58,922
Speaker 1: forged a frontier. Perhaps it's their own internal snowflake that

281
00:16:58,922 --> 00:17:02,442
Speaker 1: they're really mad at. In any case, for the past

282
00:17:02,482 --> 00:17:06,321
Speaker 1: several years, the same folks fighting for a particular type

283
00:17:06,362 --> 00:17:10,842
Speaker 1: of masculinity have been fighting against climate action as those

284
00:17:11,002 --> 00:17:14,561
Speaker 1: saving the planet is somehow antithetical to the notion of

285
00:17:14,642 --> 00:17:18,161
Speaker 1: men being heroes. Again, they've also been connecting oil and

286
00:17:18,202 --> 00:17:24,322
Speaker 1: emissions with manliness. Sociologist Carry Daggett says this is no accident,

287
00:17:24,802 --> 00:17:29,002
Speaker 1: and she even coined a term for it, petro masculinity.

288
00:17:29,922 --> 00:17:32,361
Speaker 1: Here she is talking to my Carbon Brose co host

289
00:17:32,522 --> 00:17:33,642
Speaker 1: Daniel Penny.

290
00:17:34,081 --> 00:17:37,081
Speaker 13: With that term. I think it took on a life

291
00:17:37,081 --> 00:17:39,561
Speaker 13: of its own, which was a total surprise to me

292
00:17:39,841 --> 00:17:45,161
Speaker 13: because it can be understood in this deep, structural and

293
00:17:45,321 --> 00:17:49,121
Speaker 13: historic way, which is really where I wanted to go

294
00:17:49,242 --> 00:17:51,841
Speaker 13: with it in the article. And at the same time,

295
00:17:51,922 --> 00:17:56,121
Speaker 13: it's so visibly present that I think just saying the

296
00:17:56,162 --> 00:18:00,921
Speaker 13: word people can understand or think of examples that they see.

297
00:18:01,361 --> 00:18:05,122
Speaker 13: When I wrote about this, it was during the first

298
00:18:05,121 --> 00:18:10,161
Speaker 13: Trump administration, and what I wanted to do was understand

299
00:18:11,202 --> 00:18:17,002
Speaker 13: this connection and far right movements between misogyny, anti feminist politics,

300
00:18:17,882 --> 00:18:23,522
Speaker 13: anti queer politics, and this support for fossil fuel and

301
00:18:23,561 --> 00:18:27,922
Speaker 13: climate denial, and they still tend to be talked about separately,

302
00:18:28,882 --> 00:18:32,802
Speaker 13: as if they are sort of coincidentally inhabiting the same movement.

303
00:18:34,202 --> 00:18:38,201
Speaker 13: And the work that I was reading that led me

304
00:18:38,442 --> 00:18:43,522
Speaker 13: to feel that they are not coincidentally happening together was

305
00:18:43,561 --> 00:18:50,042
Speaker 13: really feminist and ecofeminist work that has for decades pointed

306
00:18:50,042 --> 00:18:55,081
Speaker 13: to the structural connections between the way so called women's

307
00:18:55,121 --> 00:19:00,401
Speaker 13: work or reproductive labor is exploited and treated, and the

308
00:19:00,442 --> 00:19:05,841
Speaker 13: way that often racialized work and colonial work is exploited

309
00:19:05,882 --> 00:19:08,242
Speaker 13: and treated, and then also the way that the work

310
00:19:08,282 --> 00:19:12,002
Speaker 13: of nature or the work of non human animals and

311
00:19:12,042 --> 00:19:17,002
Speaker 13: creatures and plants as exploited and treated. That these kinds

312
00:19:17,002 --> 00:19:24,042
Speaker 13: of justifications and narratives are really interconnected, and so on

313
00:19:24,081 --> 00:19:27,962
Speaker 13: the one hand, it's this deep structural thing that can

314
00:19:28,002 --> 00:19:31,442
Speaker 13: be very hard to see. But on the other hand, conveniently,

315
00:19:31,522 --> 00:19:35,522
Speaker 13: now although tragically it's very easy to see on the

316
00:19:35,601 --> 00:19:38,321
Speaker 13: surface that these things are coming together.

317
00:19:39,361 --> 00:19:42,121
Speaker 1: There's another thing happening to both men and the fossil

318
00:19:42,121 --> 00:19:46,121
Speaker 1: fuel industry right now an existential crisis. And no, I

319
00:19:46,162 --> 00:19:49,561
Speaker 1: don't mean climate change, although yeah, I mean that too.

320
00:19:49,642 --> 00:19:53,161
Speaker 1: But just as fossil dominance is being threatened, so is

321
00:19:53,202 --> 00:19:56,722
Speaker 1: the patriarchy. The same men who feel threatened by the

322
00:19:56,802 --> 00:20:00,882
Speaker 1: existence of trans people also feel threatened by the side

323
00:20:00,882 --> 00:20:03,802
Speaker 1: of a windmill, and they're responding in the same way,

324
00:20:04,042 --> 00:20:08,242
Speaker 1: trying to hang onto power in every way possible, scapegoating

325
00:20:08,282 --> 00:20:11,522
Speaker 1: minority groups, and trying to insist on this st quo

326
00:20:12,282 --> 00:20:17,962
Speaker 1: using force and violence when necessary. Next time on Drill,

327
00:20:18,042 --> 00:20:20,881
Speaker 1: We're gonna wrap this little mini series up in a

328
00:20:21,002 --> 00:20:25,802
Speaker 1: perhaps unexpected place, Guyana, with a look at what the

329
00:20:25,922 --> 00:20:36,282
Speaker 1: US attack on Venezuela was really all about.

330
00:20:34,202 --> 00:20:38,522
Speaker 8: To Brazil, and we gave all of this to Venezuela.

331
00:20:38,722 --> 00:20:42,162
Speaker 8: SLAUNI claimed that two thirds again that it belongs to them.

332
00:20:42,282 --> 00:20:52,682
Speaker 8: Nata no way, sorry here not happening.

333
00:20:56,522 --> 00:21:01,482
Speaker 1: Drilled is an original Critical Frequency production distributed by Pushkin Industries.

334
00:21:01,922 --> 00:21:05,482
Speaker 1: This mini series was written and reported by me Amy Westervelt.

335
00:21:06,042 --> 00:21:09,881
Speaker 1: Our producers are Martin Saltz, Austwich and Peter Duff. Matthew

336
00:21:09,922 --> 00:21:13,321
Speaker 1: Fleming did the art work. Our first Amendment attorney is

337
00:21:13,402 --> 00:21:17,081
Speaker 1: James Wheaton of the First Amendment Project. Thanks for listening

338
00:21:17,202 --> 00:21:18,442
Speaker 1: and we'll see you next time.