WEBVTT - Three Innovators Offer a Road-Tested Framework for Career Development

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. You're listening to Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 1>Business Week with Karl Messer and Tim Stenebeck on Bloomberg Radio.

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<v Speaker 1>Think about where you are in your career versus where

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<v Speaker 1>you want to be in your career and the moves

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<v Speaker 1>required to get there. It's the subject of a brand

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<v Speaker 1>new book co written by three business school professors, including

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<v Speaker 1>our next guest, Ethan Bernstein. Ethan Bernstein is Professor of

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<v Speaker 1>Business Administration at Harvard Business School. He joins us from Boston.

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<v Speaker 1>The brand new book is Job Moves, Nine Steps for

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<v Speaker 1>making Progress in your career. Ethan joins us from Boston

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<v Speaker 1>this afternoon. Ethan, good to have you with us. How

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<v Speaker 1>are you?

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you, Tim. I'm doing great. How are you?

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<v Speaker 1>We're doing well. Thanks. Excited to talk to you about

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<v Speaker 1>this because it's actually based on a Harvard Business School

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<v Speaker 1>course and research that the three of you have conducted

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<v Speaker 1>with over one thousand professionals. Can you talk a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit about how you made this book? I almost said

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<v Speaker 1>how you built this book because it is something that

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<v Speaker 1>you guys spent years building and it.

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<v Speaker 2>Is based on new product development. But look, this was

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<v Speaker 2>the genesis of the book let's start with some numbers.

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<v Speaker 2>Every year, roughly a billion people change jobs on average.

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<v Speaker 2>People do a job move roughly every four years these days.

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<v Speaker 2>And what we know is that hundreds of millions report

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<v Speaker 2>that they're disappointed with the outcome from their switch. You

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<v Speaker 2>ask an audience the fastest they've ever gone from taking

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<v Speaker 2>a new job to realizing it's not right for them,

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<v Speaker 2>and usually as many as three quarters, say less than

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<v Speaker 2>a year. And maybe they ended up in a new

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<v Speaker 2>role they've quit quietly, and maybe they start a new

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<v Speaker 2>job search just months after arriving a new job. Whatever

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<v Speaker 2>the case, I personally find that frustrating people invest a

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<v Speaker 2>lot in a job move, and so do their families

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<v Speaker 2>and communities. The ROI should be better, and so in

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<v Speaker 2>two thousand and nine, now fifteen years ago, we decided

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<v Speaker 2>to do some research on job switching to try to

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<v Speaker 2>make it better. And our research over the past fifteen

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<v Speaker 2>years that's followed and supported over a thousand job seekers,

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<v Speaker 2>shows that we actually can help. It starts with a

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<v Speaker 2>simple reframe that we stole from the world of product

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<v Speaker 2>design and the jobs we've done.

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<v Speaker 1>Theory.

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<v Speaker 2>Just like people hire products or services to make progress

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<v Speaker 2>in their life, we find that people try to hire

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<v Speaker 2>their next job as much as their employer hires them

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<v Speaker 2>to make progress in their career. And that's the premise

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<v Speaker 2>in the framing behind the book.

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<v Speaker 3>Can I just say, wait, I'm not sure if I'm

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<v Speaker 3>following you, but I've often talked when I talked with

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<v Speaker 3>younger individuals or folks in my family who are younger,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, and starting out their job career, and I'm

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<v Speaker 3>kind of like, you need to interview too for the

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<v Speaker 3>job that you want as well as companies interviewing you.

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<v Speaker 3>This is a process, but there's two sides to it, right,

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<v Speaker 3>Like you really need to kind of figure out where

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<v Speaker 3>you want to go, what you're looking for, and really

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<v Speaker 3>kind of know what you might be stepping into. Is

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<v Speaker 3>that fair?

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, there's a supply side and the demand side, and

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<v Speaker 2>that's why that's why we you know, Bob is is

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<v Speaker 2>a guru, a genius in new product innovation. He's invented

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<v Speaker 2>more products than any human being I know, and so

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<v Speaker 2>he brings to the table the work that he did

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<v Speaker 2>with Klay Christensen, who is well known for it's work

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<v Speaker 2>on innovation around jobs. He'd done this idea that when

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<v Speaker 2>consumers buy a product they hire that product for a

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<v Speaker 2>struggling moment in their lives that the product helps them solve.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a root cause that leads them to purchase not

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<v Speaker 2>just the attributes and features of the product, but how

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<v Speaker 2>the experience they'll have with it. And we find truly

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<v Speaker 2>that's how people do and should think about the next

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<v Speaker 2>step in their career when they make progress through a move,

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<v Speaker 2>and that progress is defined by a bunch of causes,

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<v Speaker 2>we call them pushes and pull forces that help them

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<v Speaker 2>make that progress by hiring that next job, that next organization.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe it's even a role within their organization for the

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<v Speaker 2>job to be done in their career.

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<v Speaker 1>Ethan Bernstein, Professor of Business Administration. We're speaking him threat

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<v Speaker 1>with him right now. He's at Harvard Business School. Professor,

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<v Speaker 1>you mentioned two other names, Michael Horn and Bob Musta,

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<v Speaker 1>who are the co authors of the book. You co

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<v Speaker 1>wrote the book with those two other individuals. You also

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<v Speaker 1>just mentioned Clayton Christensen, and I think anyone who's gone

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<v Speaker 1>to business school certainly understands what a legend he is

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<v Speaker 1>in the world of business, even of course outside of

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<v Speaker 1>business school as well. He passed away just about almost

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<v Speaker 1>five years ago at this point, can you talk a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit about his influence on the project and this

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<v Speaker 1>whole idea of disruptive innovation.

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<v Speaker 2>So very personally, Clay was my dissertation advisor or one

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<v Speaker 2>of them, and he's the person who brought us together,

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<v Speaker 2>and so in that sense, Clay was instrumental in creating

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<v Speaker 2>the space for us to create this book. In fact,

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<v Speaker 2>the reason I met Bob Mesta in two thousand and

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<v Speaker 2>nine and saw him interview a customer who'd bought a

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<v Speaker 2>product to understand what the job he done that customer

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<v Speaker 2>had purchased that product to serve was because Clay, let's

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<v Speaker 2>even say vall and told me into the session in

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<v Speaker 2>Aldridge holl Here at the Harvard Business School to see it.

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<v Speaker 2>And that was that was the genesis for the idea

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<v Speaker 2>of framing the book this way and doing the research

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<v Speaker 2>that we did using those validated protocols that Clay and

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<v Speaker 2>Bob created, but not on customers buying products, but rather

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<v Speaker 2>employees choosing jobs. Michael Horn is a class of two

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<v Speaker 2>thousand and six from here in education and upskilling guru

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<v Speaker 2>who co authored a book with Clay. He co authored

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<v Speaker 2>Disrupting Class and has since authored a number of books

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<v Speaker 2>on education and upskilling, and so the three of us

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<v Speaker 2>each bring something different to the table. I'm the HR

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<v Speaker 2>Talent People professor, Michael is the education and upskilling guru,

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<v Speaker 2>and Bob is the new product development wizard.

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<v Speaker 3>Can I ask you something? And I feel like it's

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<v Speaker 3>just a moment in time right now, and I've been

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<v Speaker 3>thinking a lot about this. There's been a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>writing about it, about the diploma divide and how that

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<v Speaker 3>maybe explains the election outcome, and I kind of feel

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<v Speaker 3>like it all ties in because we're going to talk

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<v Speaker 3>a little bit later actually after you about people doing

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<v Speaker 3>apprentice ships, which is not something that's very popular in

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<v Speaker 3>the US anymore, but it is overseas. But I do

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<v Speaker 3>think about education, and I do feel like employers still want,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, academic pedigree, you know, they look for that,

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<v Speaker 3>and yet we have a lot of Americans that don't

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<v Speaker 3>necessarily have college degrees, and maybe that explains to some

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<v Speaker 3>extent the political outcome that we just got in the

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<v Speaker 3>US presidential election. I'm just curious if you have any

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<v Speaker 3>thoughts that kind of tie some of this together.

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<v Speaker 2>We're trying to help people match with organizations and with roles.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what this book is designed to do. And in

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<v Speaker 2>that sense, both sides, the supply side and the demand side,

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<v Speaker 2>as we're talking about before, gets stuck in this what

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<v Speaker 2>I will be or what someone has on their resume

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<v Speaker 2>rather than what someone will do and how suited they

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<v Speaker 2>are to the experiences. So when most people think about

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<v Speaker 2>changing jobs, they tend to focus on the features they want,

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<v Speaker 2>things like better hours, less travel, higher pay, a worthy title,

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<v Speaker 2>and the employer and you know, they all sound great

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<v Speaker 2>to me, and the employees think about, okay, so what

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<v Speaker 2>can I put in my resume to fit all of

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<v Speaker 2>those to make all those things level up? On the

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<v Speaker 2>job description that says that they want entry level employee

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<v Speaker 2>with five years of work, the work experience, it's it's

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<v Speaker 2>all a sales job from person to person on the

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<v Speaker 2>basis of the features and the attributes rather than the

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<v Speaker 2>experiences and what will actually be done. And so part

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<v Speaker 2>of what we're trying to do is make this a

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<v Speaker 2>conversation instead about the forces. What are the things that

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<v Speaker 2>are pushing someone away. We have fourteen push forces that

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<v Speaker 2>we've found over these one thousand plus individuals we've interviewed,

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<v Speaker 2>and what are the pull forces? What are the opportunities

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<v Speaker 2>they see that pull them towards something, and when those

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<v Speaker 2>things align, they create enough of a pull and a

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<v Speaker 2>push aligned to overcome the habit of the present and

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<v Speaker 2>the anxiety of a new solution that keep people in place.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's not about all of those attributes. Those are

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<v Speaker 2>nice things to have, but it's actually about the progress

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<v Speaker 2>towards those pushes and through those pulls that someone is

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<v Speaker 2>going to actually make. And so in that sense, it

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<v Speaker 2>does align with the idea of diplomas and how we

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<v Speaker 2>think about their role, because some things require it and

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<v Speaker 2>some things don't. But we're not really talking about that

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<v Speaker 2>because we're just thinking about the attributes rather than the

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<v Speaker 2>experiences and the dues.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, there's some incredible names that have blurbed the book.

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<v Speaker 1>Read Hastings, the co founder and executive chairman of Netflix,

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<v Speaker 1>writes that Job Moves is packed with stuff I wish

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<v Speaker 1>I'd understood forty years ago. Followed these nine steps full disclosure.

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<v Speaker 1>He's also on the board of Bloomberg. I just learned.

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<v Speaker 1>But it kind of raises a point like, this is

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<v Speaker 1>a guy we're talking about who's, you know, co founded

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<v Speaker 1>a company that revolutionized media. He's worth seven billion dollars

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<v Speaker 1>according to the Bloomberg Billionaire's Index. Yet he says he

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<v Speaker 1>can learn from this book. Who's it for?

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<v Speaker 2>And We've had some very generous early readers, so I'm

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<v Speaker 2>grateful to read and many of the others that are

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<v Speaker 2>blurbed and have mentioned the book. The book is for

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<v Speaker 2>primarily people who have had at least one job. It

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't mean you can't benefit from it if you haven't,

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<v Speaker 2>But if you've had one job, then you have a

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<v Speaker 2>sense of what is pushing you away from that and

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<v Speaker 2>what might be pulling you towards something else. In that sense,

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<v Speaker 2>then it's also about people who are on some kind

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<v Speaker 2>of quest, somebody who wants to make progress. So one

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<v Speaker 2>of the things we did with these sixteen pulls and

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<v Speaker 2>fourteen pushes, we then looked at for patterns, and we

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<v Speaker 2>found four patterns are typically on one of four quests

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<v Speaker 2>they might be trying to get out. Those are people

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<v Speaker 2>who are trying to reset what their job is expecting

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<v Speaker 2>of them and how it manages them in that daily life.

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<v Speaker 2>It might be about people trying to just take the

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<v Speaker 2>next step. They actually like both parts of them. They

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<v Speaker 2>just feel like they're ready for something else. They're trying

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<v Speaker 2>to get ahead, and the world is sort of designed

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<v Speaker 2>for those people. That's what we call progression rather than progress.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey one on the off Oh.

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<v Speaker 3>No, no, no, please finish your thought forgive me.

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<v Speaker 2>I say, on the off diagonals though, Some people are

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<v Speaker 2>just trying to regain control over how they're managed, but

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<v Speaker 2>they like what they're doing. Some people are trying to

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<v Speaker 2>regain alignment around what they're being asked, what capabilities of

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<v Speaker 2>being asked to use, but they love the environment around them.

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<v Speaker 2>Each one of those quests has a different set of

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<v Speaker 2>advice that's good for a person. And so when I

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<v Speaker 2>hear someone like read, who I think has probably seen

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<v Speaker 2>at all, say that, it probably means that he's imagining

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<v Speaker 2>that if he'd known sooner the way in which to

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<v Speaker 2>use that common language, he could have more quickly come

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<v Speaker 2>to the conclusion that he was on this part particular quest,

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<v Speaker 2>and therefore this kind of step was best for him

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<v Speaker 2>at that stage in his career.

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<v Speaker 3>One thing I want to ask you. There's a story

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<v Speaker 3>that's up on the Bloomberg today about recent college graduates

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<v Speaker 3>are feeling a cooling US labor market. The gap between

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<v Speaker 3>the unemployment rate for recent grads and the overall rate

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<v Speaker 3>for Americans with a college degree widened to two point

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<v Speaker 3>eight percentage points in September. This is data from the

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<v Speaker 3>New York Fed. It's the largest on record going back

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<v Speaker 3>to nineteen ninety aside from a few months early on

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<v Speaker 3>in the pandemic. And I guess what I want to

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<v Speaker 3>ask you these nine steps that you talk about, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>is it only do you have the ability to follow

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<v Speaker 3>it in a strong job market? In other words, I

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<v Speaker 3>guess you know it's easy to kind of put your

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<v Speaker 3>priorities and think about things when there's lots of choices,

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<v Speaker 3>But when things are a little bit more difficult, is

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<v Speaker 3>it tough to do that?

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<v Speaker 2>When the three of us got together to write a book,

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<v Speaker 2>it's an excellent question. I'd write a book about careers.

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<v Speaker 2>We promised ourselves we wouldn't write a book about the dream.

0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:03.520
<v Speaker 2>We would write a book about trade offs, because ultimately,

0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:05.439
<v Speaker 2>that's what a good career looks like. It's a bunch

0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:07.840
<v Speaker 2>of trade offs that you make with priorities attached to

0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:10.320
<v Speaker 2>one or the other piece of that. That's why different

0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:12.559
<v Speaker 2>quests are different people at different times, and most of

0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:13.880
<v Speaker 2>so filter through them over time.

0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:16.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So just got twenty seconds. So I want to

0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:17.840
<v Speaker 3>let you just wrap it up.

0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:23.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So so really, honestly, it's about being able to

0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:26.559
<v Speaker 2>tell your story for your particular moment, and then you're

0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:28.400
<v Speaker 2>not competing with a thousand people for the job. You're

0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:31.800
<v Speaker 2>competing with three. And that's actually better in a tight

0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:34.760
<v Speaker 2>labor market. So the more work you do, the better

0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:37.040
<v Speaker 2>off you'll be, even in the kind of labor market.

0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:37.880
<v Speaker 2>Looks like we're heading.

0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:39.840
<v Speaker 3>Into Well, fun to check in with you, Ethan. Thank

0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:42.520
<v Speaker 3>you so much. Congratulations on the book. Ethan Bernstein, Professor

0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:45.200
<v Speaker 3>of Business Administration at Harvard Business School. The book is

0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:50.000
<v Speaker 3>called Job Moves, Nine Steps for making Progress in your career.

0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:53.760
<v Speaker 3>Right you are listening and watching Bloomberg, we're talking apprenticeships.

0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:57.080
<v Speaker 3>That's next. So in prepping for this next segment, came

0:11:57.120 --> 0:12:00.720
<v Speaker 3>across in Bloomberg opinion column was late last year asking

0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:05.200
<v Speaker 3>the question can apprenticeships restore the American dream? And the

0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:08.920
<v Speaker 3>column went into how apprenticeships in America were nowhere compared

0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:12.800
<v Speaker 3>to every other developed country their stats around one year ago,

0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:16.000
<v Speaker 3>noting that the US had half a million apprentices that's

0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:19.440
<v Speaker 3>three tenths of one percent of the workforce, seventy percent

0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:21.320
<v Speaker 3>of them tim in construction trades.

0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:24.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay, that contrasts with the apprenticeship giants of Central Europe.

0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:27.800
<v Speaker 1>They've got ten to fifteen times more apprenticeships per capita

0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:30.600
<v Speaker 1>than we do. Even the UK, Australia and Canada they're

0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:32.319
<v Speaker 1>eight times bigger than we are.

0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:33.240
<v Speaker 2>We know that.

0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:35.800
<v Speaker 3>We've had guests on talk about what's going on, certainly

0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:39.640
<v Speaker 3>in Europe in particular. One generation ago, though they looked

0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:43.200
<v Speaker 3>a lot like the United States, with relatively small apprenticeship sectors,

0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:46.120
<v Speaker 3>almost all in construction. Today it's very common for workers

0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:48.640
<v Speaker 3>in those countries to launch a career in tech, our healthcare,

0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:52.200
<v Speaker 3>or even financial services, all happening through an apprenticeship.

0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:54.600
<v Speaker 1>We've got with us somebody who knows quite a bit

0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:58.840
<v Speaker 1>about this. Bertina Chicarelli is CEO of the nonprofit and Power.

0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:01.000
<v Speaker 1>It works to move people and poverty to the middle

0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:05.319
<v Speaker 1>class through tech, skills, training and job placement programs. We've

0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:07.640
<v Speaker 1>gone up with her in the past. Pleased to have

0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:09.760
<v Speaker 1>her back with us this afternoon. Brittina, how are you.

0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:12.559
<v Speaker 4>I'm sure, I think it's great to be back. Thank

0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:13.120
<v Speaker 4>you for having me.

0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:15.000
<v Speaker 1>You know, since we last spoke to you, I've actually noticed,

0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:16.679
<v Speaker 1>and maybe it's just I've been looking out for it,

0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:18.839
<v Speaker 1>but I've noticed more and more people talking about these

0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:21.080
<v Speaker 1>so called trades, and part of it, I think is

0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:23.640
<v Speaker 1>because a lot of it has to do with there's

0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:28.200
<v Speaker 1>a real lack of plumbers electricians in this country and

0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:30.720
<v Speaker 1>it's driven up prices for these home services. They're also

0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.800
<v Speaker 1>just great careers to be in. Are now we thinking

0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:37.520
<v Speaker 1>differently finally in the US about apprenticeships. Again, this is

0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:39.680
<v Speaker 1>not the type of this is not the exact type

0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:42.160
<v Speaker 1>of apprenticeships you focus on, But are we thinking about

0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:43.600
<v Speaker 1>different differently as a society?

0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:47.439
<v Speaker 4>Absolutely, without question, and in fact we are saying enough

0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:53.080
<v Speaker 4>taken apprenticeships in the traditional trades, But there's also been

0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:57.040
<v Speaker 4>a great, great rise in the interest of apprenticeships for

0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:01.920
<v Speaker 4>non traditional pathways like technology, which is never been deeply

0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:05.400
<v Speaker 4>invested in apprenticeships until now. Right, we find that right

0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:11.160
<v Speaker 4>now today that's about sixty thousand manufacturing apprenticeships. There's only

0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:13.480
<v Speaker 4>about ten percent of that, a little over six thousand

0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:16.720
<v Speaker 4>today that is in tech. But tech happens to be

0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:20.680
<v Speaker 4>the fastest growing sector for apprenticeships, growing at two and

0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:23.760
<v Speaker 4>a half times annually per years. So I think that

0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:26.600
<v Speaker 4>we've got great promise in some of these non traditional

0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.800
<v Speaker 4>pathways to bring people into the IT sector.

0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:31.960
<v Speaker 3>Help me out how does it work, because I do

0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:35.240
<v Speaker 3>feel like somebody says, well, I'm in an apprenticeship, They're like, oh, sorry,

0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:35.840
<v Speaker 3>you know.

0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:36.120
<v Speaker 4>What I mean.

0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:38.080
<v Speaker 3>Like, there is certainly a stigma I think in the

0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:41.440
<v Speaker 3>United States, and we've just been talking about college degrees

0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:44.400
<v Speaker 3>versus not and elections and all of that, and kind

0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:46.880
<v Speaker 3>of trying to understand where we are as a society,

0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:51.320
<v Speaker 3>not just certain pockets, but everybody and not everybody has

0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:55.320
<v Speaker 3>a college degree. So tell us about these apprenticeships, what

0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:58.160
<v Speaker 3>they're like, what kind of jobs, what do people ultimately

0:14:58.200 --> 0:14:58.680
<v Speaker 3>get paid?

0:14:58.920 --> 0:14:59.480
<v Speaker 1>What is it?

0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:03.320
<v Speaker 4>So you know, if you think about it, most Americans

0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:07.040
<v Speaker 4>don't have afore your degree, and I think that's what

0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:13.080
<v Speaker 4>traditionally why traditionally the construction trades and apprenticeships in those

0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:16.360
<v Speaker 4>fields have been so popular and a past to the

0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:21.280
<v Speaker 4>middle class. Arguably apprenticeships in tech are the same thing.

0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:25.080
<v Speaker 4>And by the way, many of these jobs don't require

0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:31.280
<v Speaker 4>a college degree. What they do require are skills, certifications, credentials.

0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.840
<v Speaker 4>And this is how it works. It's organizations like empower

0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:39.280
<v Speaker 4>that provides that if you will free apprenticeship training that

0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:45.320
<v Speaker 4>skills up populations that are often overlooked in certain segments

0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:48.760
<v Speaker 4>of our labor economy, like tech. And what I mean overlooked.

0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:54.520
<v Speaker 4>It's individuals who might be veterans, young adults from underserved communities,

0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:58.840
<v Speaker 4>people without college degrees, but who are motivated and have

0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:04.000
<v Speaker 4>all the apt and the appetite to do well in tech,

0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:07.040
<v Speaker 4>but they need the opportunity to get those skills. So

0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:10.760
<v Speaker 4>that's where organizations like empower and community colleges can play

0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:15.800
<v Speaker 4>a really important role. We make it easy for them

0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:22.240
<v Speaker 4>employer partners to become apprenticeship sponsors. So if you've got

0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:26.800
<v Speaker 4>a skilled pipeline of talent ready to go that has

0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:30.960
<v Speaker 4>those industries recognized certifications, the next step is our o

0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:36.800
<v Speaker 4>employer partner to say, let's structure a six month learn

0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:40.000
<v Speaker 4>to earn type of program where an individual gets those

0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:43.080
<v Speaker 4>on the job skills that make them fantastic long term

0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:47.080
<v Speaker 4>employees of that company and often frankly outperform those who

0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:48.400
<v Speaker 4>might have polish degrees.

0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.520
<v Speaker 1>Brittina, I could imagine somebody listening right now saying, wait

0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:53.480
<v Speaker 1>a second, this sounds a lot like an internship, but

0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:56.000
<v Speaker 1>by a different name. What would you say to them.

0:16:56.640 --> 0:17:00.040
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's actually very different. First of all, apprenticeships, so

0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:02.920
<v Speaker 4>whether they are registered by the Department of Labor or

0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:08.160
<v Speaker 4>whether they're company sponsored, typically have a commitment to hire

0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:13.920
<v Speaker 4>that individual full time once the apprenticeship period has ended. Right. Typically,

0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:18.560
<v Speaker 4>apprenticeships are for a much longer duration. Oftentimes internships are

0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:23.520
<v Speaker 4>three months between college semesters. Apprenticeships tend to be the

0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:26.600
<v Speaker 4>full time six to eight months, sometimes up to a year.

0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:28.480
<v Speaker 4>So there's a real commitment and an investment that a

0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:31.119
<v Speaker 4>company is making to say, now that I have this

0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:34.680
<v Speaker 4>individual who's skilled up, I want to convert that person

0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:37.000
<v Speaker 4>to full time. And by the way, and the tech sector,

0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:39.800
<v Speaker 4>about ninety percent of apprenticeships convert to full time.

0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:42.119
<v Speaker 3>All right, So talk about those full time jobs. What

0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:46.240
<v Speaker 3>are they paid. I'm curious about kind of the payoff literally.

0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:49.960
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, no, it's and it's good right through. We're talking

0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:53.280
<v Speaker 4>healthy numbers. So these are jobs that again we're talking

0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:57.200
<v Speaker 4>individuals without college degrees who oftentimes which often start about

0:17:57.200 --> 0:18:00.679
<v Speaker 4>sixty thousand or so, and their jobs jobs in it

0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:04.840
<v Speaker 4>infrastructures where we're seeing the greatest demand. So you know,

0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:09.760
<v Speaker 4>we're talking for example, hardware installation, software support, hardware maintenance,

0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:15.640
<v Speaker 4>computer systems and networking upgrades, big big emphasis in cybersecurity

0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:19.520
<v Speaker 4>and cloud computing and project management. Right. These are just

0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:24.359
<v Speaker 4>really core skills that any company needs, whether it's a

0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:28.439
<v Speaker 4>really large multinational global company like a city or an accenture,

0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:33.480
<v Speaker 4>a mid sized company like a healthcare services firm, or

0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:36.879
<v Speaker 4>a small business. Right, We've got a charter school network

0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:39.959
<v Speaker 4>in the Bronx that is high rate. It appredces right.

0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.360
<v Speaker 1>Left, Hey, we only have a minute left. But I'm

0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:45.119
<v Speaker 1>a little puzzled as to why the US kind of

0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:49.040
<v Speaker 1>got behind with this. Why is that? Very briefly, you know.

0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:51.760
<v Speaker 4>I would say that it's just not necessarily in the

0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:58.560
<v Speaker 4>DNA of understanding what it takes to earn a great income.

0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:00.800
<v Speaker 4>And it's not to say that college a terrific. I'm

0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:03.720
<v Speaker 4>the first advocate, and oftentimes once you get financially stable,

0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:06.119
<v Speaker 4>you can go on and get that college degree. But

0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:10.000
<v Speaker 4>I think we've really had a preference towards that four

0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:12.560
<v Speaker 4>year degree. And I think the reality is there are

0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:15.720
<v Speaker 4>millions of people who benefit from an apprenticeship program that

0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:20.240
<v Speaker 4>land them a middle class good job that can help

0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:21.280
<v Speaker 4>build wealth over time.

0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:25.280
<v Speaker 3>Very cool, Yeah, very interesting. I also wonder too, if

0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:27.920
<v Speaker 3>companies at this point are thinking about survivability. How many

0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:33.639
<v Speaker 3>executives HR CEO that talk about partnering high schools even

0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:36.040
<v Speaker 3>to make sure that they've got the future workforce.

0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:38.160
<v Speaker 1>It's really I mean, Diamond talks about this a lot.

0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:43.520
<v Speaker 3>Rethink, rethink. Britina Chicarelli, chief executive Officer at and Power,

0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:46.560
<v Speaker 3>joining us once again from Brooklyn, New York. So appreciate it.

0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:48.080
<v Speaker 3>You're listening and watching Bloomberg