1
00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:05,600
Speaker 1: This is Wins and Losses with Clay Trevis, play talks

2
00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:09,719
Speaker 1: with the most entertaining people in sports, entertainment and business.

3
00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:19,800
Speaker 1: Now here's Clay Trevis. Welcome in Wins and Losses. This

4
00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,639
Speaker 1: is episode four. So far you have heard from three

5
00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,279
Speaker 1: pretty awesome guys. Jason Whitlock, you've heard from Shannon Terry

6
00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:31,000
Speaker 1: who found seven Sports as well as Rivals, and you

7
00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:35,440
Speaker 1: heard last week from a really intriguing guest as well,

8
00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:40,840
Speaker 1: SEC Commissioner Greg Sanky. We are joined now by Washington

9
00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:44,159
Speaker 1: State head football coach Mike Leach, who I think you

10
00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,600
Speaker 1: guys are going to enjoy as well. And if you

11
00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:49,600
Speaker 1: haven't already, go ahead and subscribe to the Wins and

12
00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:53,239
Speaker 1: Losses podcast. The idea behind the Wins and Losses Podcast

13
00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,400
Speaker 1: as we explore many of the successes and failures of

14
00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:00,920
Speaker 1: a variety of different figures across the world the sports, media,

15
00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,760
Speaker 1: politics and business. And it sounds like we've caught him

16
00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:08,720
Speaker 1: in the middle of a hurricane. Mike Leach, are you there? Yeah? Yeah, no,

17
00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:13,000
Speaker 1: it's raining here. It's getting after it pretty good. Are

18
00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:17,080
Speaker 1: you a doorman? No? I just I just got to

19
00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,640
Speaker 1: Florida a couple of days ago and so it's uh, now,

20
00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,680
Speaker 1: I had a lightning strike that rumbled the whole neighborhood.

21
00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,520
Speaker 1: You can feel you can feel stuff shakeun all side.

22
00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,600
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's like being kind of being in a

23
00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,880
Speaker 1: cannon battle or something. Are you down in the Keys

24
00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:38,160
Speaker 1: right now? Yeah? What do you like about the Florida Keys? Like,

25
00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:40,160
Speaker 1: I know you spend a lot of time down there

26
00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:41,800
Speaker 1: and uh, and I've spent a lot of time down

27
00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:43,559
Speaker 1: there over the years. What is it about that area

28
00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:47,400
Speaker 1: that appeals to you? I like that everything simplified as

29
00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:49,440
Speaker 1: long as I've been down here, and I lived here

30
00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,440
Speaker 1: for two years. I never had a car, didn't have

31
00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:57,440
Speaker 1: a car the whole time, just bike or walk. Uh

32
00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,600
Speaker 1: get in great shape down here just by accident. Um,

33
00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,880
Speaker 1: you know, I'll do the print exercises on my deck,

34
00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,320
Speaker 1: whether it's uh push ups or sit ups, and I'm

35
00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,239
Speaker 1: in such bed shape now I'll have to wait a

36
00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:16,080
Speaker 1: couple of days to make another run at those. But then, um,

37
00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,959
Speaker 1: you run into uh good food here, you know, because

38
00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:25,519
Speaker 1: you can accidentally eat fish twice a day down here. Um.

39
00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,920
Speaker 1: And then if your board, I don't get a lot

40
00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,480
Speaker 1: of TV watch down here, you go take a walk

41
00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,680
Speaker 1: and you'll run into or see something, or ride your

42
00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,560
Speaker 1: bike and run across something you've never seen before. Are

43
00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:41,639
Speaker 1: you in Key West? Like what part of the Keys

44
00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:46,600
Speaker 1: do you like the best? Well, I'm in Key West, yeah, so, uh,

45
00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:48,600
Speaker 1: I've never been to Key West. I've heard I would

46
00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:51,200
Speaker 1: love it now. I lived in the Caribbean in St. Thomas, US,

47
00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,440
Speaker 1: Virgin Islands for a couple of years where that's where

48
00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,040
Speaker 1: I went to practice law when I first started. But

49
00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,480
Speaker 1: I love kind of did you where where did you

50
00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,280
Speaker 1: go a lot school? I went to Vanderbilt. So I

51
00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:06,799
Speaker 1: graduated Vanderbilt Law School and the managing partner of a

52
00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,919
Speaker 1: Virgin Islands law firm as a friend of mine named

53
00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,120
Speaker 1: Chad Messier. And I was scrolling through looking at the

54
00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,920
Speaker 1: job offerings, the postings, and I saw us Virgin Islands,

55
00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:19,760
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I'm from Nashville, So I thought,

56
00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:21,320
Speaker 1: you know, I was kind of expecting that I would

57
00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,560
Speaker 1: have had to offer, you know, to stay in Nashville,

58
00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,120
Speaker 1: and kind of thought that's what I would do. And uh,

59
00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:27,720
Speaker 1: you know, I kind of on a lark, I sent

60
00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,639
Speaker 1: my resume down there, went down for an interview. I

61
00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,560
Speaker 1: was getting married, and uh and we were like, why

62
00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:36,680
Speaker 1: not go down and try this and see how it's

63
00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:38,880
Speaker 1: gonna go. And so we ended up in the Caribbean.

64
00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:41,880
Speaker 1: Well that'd be us. I would have done that. I

65
00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,680
Speaker 1: tried to go to Australia, but uh, the Australians are

66
00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,800
Speaker 1: kind of wise to that. Um you know, they before

67
00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,480
Speaker 1: long they pointed out that they had their own attorneys

68
00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,000
Speaker 1: and uh and uh, you know, the chances of me

69
00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,000
Speaker 1: going down they were going to be kind of long

70
00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:02,120
Speaker 1: and drawn out. So as a result, I got into coaching.

71
00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,480
Speaker 1: So if you could have gone to practice law in Australia,

72
00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:09,440
Speaker 1: you would have because you graduated from where Pepperdine law school. Yeah.

73
00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,520
Speaker 1: I was mainly gonna just try to well, so I'd

74
00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:18,280
Speaker 1: gone straight through. I'd gone straight through. Uh co graduated

75
00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,200
Speaker 1: college and eight semesters and then went straight to law school.

76
00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,160
Speaker 1: So I was one of the youngest guys there. And

77
00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:29,680
Speaker 1: then um, you know, and stuff was going so fast.

78
00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:31,480
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, I'm out of law school and

79
00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:35,240
Speaker 1: feel like life's slipping me by and and I was

80
00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,480
Speaker 1: broke coming out of college. So I didn't, you know,

81
00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,080
Speaker 1: go to Europe and find myself for two years or

82
00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:42,880
Speaker 1: none of that stuff. That would have been a good

83
00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:47,200
Speaker 1: deal and probably in my case well advised um and

84
00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,840
Speaker 1: so I, uh, well, then I was trying to make

85
00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,200
Speaker 1: up for lost time and do it then, and I

86
00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:59,160
Speaker 1: was married and had my first daughter, and so then um,

87
00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,400
Speaker 1: I needed to pay for it. So the notion really was,

88
00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:08,120
Speaker 1: which it didn't take the Australians long, um, was to

89
00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:10,840
Speaker 1: hide behind my law degree work for two years and

90
00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:15,800
Speaker 1: then go back and grow up. And so um uh

91
00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,680
Speaker 1: you know, long story short. I mean the process to

92
00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,160
Speaker 1: go over there and work was kind of long and extensive,

93
00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,720
Speaker 1: and I didn't make it over there. So then I

94
00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:29,520
Speaker 1: started uh uh kind of masters at the United States

95
00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,480
Speaker 1: Sports Academy, because if you have a bunch of student loans,

96
00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,479
Speaker 1: the logical thing is to get another degree and take

97
00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:40,840
Speaker 1: out more loan stuff support yourself and prolonged the thing,

98
00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:46,080
Speaker 1: which I did, and then uh started coaching from there

99
00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,880
Speaker 1: as part of the United States Sports Academy, which was

100
00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:57,000
Speaker 1: an outstanding curriculum and things they part of it was, uh,

101
00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,680
Speaker 1: you know, you'd get a lot of credit for being

102
00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,560
Speaker 1: at intour in the fields you wanted to and you know,

103
00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,359
Speaker 1: you do stuff like journals, write papers and have somebody

104
00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:12,080
Speaker 1: that supervises you and and you um, they write evaluations,

105
00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:17,840
Speaker 1: and uh you would uh get credit for you know,

106
00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,640
Speaker 1: working on the job and kind of not you know,

107
00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,760
Speaker 1: on the job, training, building a career all that you

108
00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,400
Speaker 1: get credit for it as you learned along the way.

109
00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:32,000
Speaker 1: So it was very functional as far as h as

110
00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,760
Speaker 1: far as my career went. So how did you So

111
00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,040
Speaker 1: you go to Brigham Young and you're interested in college

112
00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:41,040
Speaker 1: football and then you decided to go to Pepperdine to

113
00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:42,840
Speaker 1: go to law school. How did that? How did that

114
00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:48,000
Speaker 1: decision get made? Well? I went to I've broken my

115
00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:52,280
Speaker 1: ankle my senior year of high school in football, and

116
00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,200
Speaker 1: and we were, you know, a high achieving team. Were

117
00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:00,800
Speaker 1: the smallest team in the biggest classification in Wyoming, but

118
00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:06,200
Speaker 1: always quite successful, you know, won the state championship my

119
00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:12,520
Speaker 1: uh junior or my sophomore year, played for my junior year,

120
00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:18,080
Speaker 1: and then I break my ankle my senior year. So

121
00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:25,000
Speaker 1: um so anyway, so i'm you know, the football thing,

122
00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,680
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, well, all right, academics, I've been studying. I'm

123
00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,840
Speaker 1: gonna go be an attorney. Which was strange enough that

124
00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,239
Speaker 1: because we didn't have any attorneys in my family to speak,

125
00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:36,160
Speaker 1: just sort of out of the blue, out of my

126
00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,040
Speaker 1: head that I was going to be an attorney. My dad,

127
00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,120
Speaker 1: why why did you want to do that? You know?

128
00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,280
Speaker 1: I think there was an accumulation. I think it was

129
00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:50,000
Speaker 1: kind of I was always an English history guy. I

130
00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,680
Speaker 1: always read a lot of stuff. I wanted something that

131
00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:57,880
Speaker 1: would let you do that. UM teaching. I didn't see

132
00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:03,880
Speaker 1: necessarily the college, but as their deal. UM, I was

133
00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:10,080
Speaker 1: kind of argumentative. UM. And I don't know, I just

134
00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,600
Speaker 1: I guess I uh, you know, I knew you would

135
00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:19,920
Speaker 1: do these kind of uh was not the aptitude test,

136
00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,280
Speaker 1: but interest test. You know. It kind of channeled me

137
00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,240
Speaker 1: that way. So at any rate, I find myself. I

138
00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:29,800
Speaker 1: go to b y U and B y U was, UM,

139
00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,920
Speaker 1: it was a good deal. I mean it was because

140
00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:39,120
Speaker 1: I had an academic scholarship tuition scholarship to Wyoming. But

141
00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,400
Speaker 1: Wyoming I felt like would have been similar to high school.

142
00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,400
Speaker 1: See all the same people doing all the same things,

143
00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:49,800
Speaker 1: and I just felt like, I, uh not really advanced

144
00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,520
Speaker 1: as much as I might, although I you know, I

145
00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:54,839
Speaker 1: loved Wyoming and the people there. And so then I

146
00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,880
Speaker 1: went to B y U and uh, you know, which

147
00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:04,040
Speaker 1: was uh, you know, higher higher academics and in kind

148
00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:08,400
Speaker 1: of a you know, set up on a big scale,

149
00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,959
Speaker 1: which I thought was pretty cool. And then, um and

150
00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,280
Speaker 1: it was close enough to home, yet far enough far

151
00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,920
Speaker 1: enough way to to do my thing, yet close enough

152
00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:23,400
Speaker 1: to him to get back close enough by back then

153
00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:27,800
Speaker 1: it was further. Back back then it was fifty speed limit.

154
00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:33,160
Speaker 1: So so in in in snow, slush and rain, rain,

155
00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,760
Speaker 1: if you were lucky, it was ten and a half

156
00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,120
Speaker 1: hours away, so it was close enough to get back

157
00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:43,920
Speaker 1: if you needed to. And then uh, uh so I

158
00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,199
Speaker 1: go to b y U, got out of there, and

159
00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,079
Speaker 1: eight semesters played rugby the all time at b y U,

160
00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:54,240
Speaker 1: so you know, uh kept the competition thing going, kept

161
00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:58,280
Speaker 1: the team concept thing going. We were good at rugby

162
00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,679
Speaker 1: by us. B y U and CAL are the two

163
00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:06,319
Speaker 1: greatest rugby institutions in America on the college level. And

164
00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:11,319
Speaker 1: uh so that was fascinating all of a sudden. You know,

165
00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,800
Speaker 1: there's me and guys from all over the world. You know,

166
00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,679
Speaker 1: we're put together on a team. So that was a

167
00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:21,559
Speaker 1: good deal. You know, we had New Zealand or South Africans,

168
00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:30,319
Speaker 1: uh Maori's, Fijians, uh uh Tongans, Samoans, you know, just

169
00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:35,000
Speaker 1: guys from from everywhere. Occasionally an Englishman or an Australian,

170
00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:39,040
Speaker 1: but um, and then a handful of American football players.

171
00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:43,120
Speaker 1: So we're going all over the country, um playing rugby.

172
00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:47,440
Speaker 1: And so then uh, well, then I went to Pepper

173
00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:54,160
Speaker 1: nine to law school, and uh uh about halfway through

174
00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,719
Speaker 1: I got to thinking, you know, um, maybe I'd like

175
00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:01,080
Speaker 1: to coach, and and some of the coach jam things started,

176
00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:06,959
Speaker 1: um when I was fifteen years old in Wyoming you

177
00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,520
Speaker 1: could drive when you were fifteen, which we can discuss

178
00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,559
Speaker 1: whether that's a good idea or not. It's probably not.

179
00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:20,000
Speaker 1: And then uh so I always had a baseball team.

180
00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:22,800
Speaker 1: I had a baseball team from ages fifteen to myself

181
00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:27,360
Speaker 1: or years in college. You know where uh I do

182
00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:32,720
Speaker 1: my job and think about you know, uh it would

183
00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,040
Speaker 1: be the best first basement and how to work out

184
00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:42,000
Speaker 1: the pitching rotations young kids, you know the uh well,

185
00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:46,760
Speaker 1: at various ages they were either uh, let's see idea.

186
00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,679
Speaker 1: The first team I had was was I think eight

187
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,640
Speaker 1: and nine, and then then later on it was a

188
00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:57,000
Speaker 1: little league you know, ten or twelve, and then it

189
00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,720
Speaker 1: was a thirteen through fifteen. So I had all different

190
00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,520
Speaker 1: phases of that. I didn't have the only one year

191
00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:05,480
Speaker 1: of the eight nine year olds. After that, it was

192
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:12,079
Speaker 1: it was either little leaguer the fifteen how did the

193
00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:17,120
Speaker 1: teams do? But we want yeah, we wont. Do you

194
00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:19,040
Speaker 1: think that was because you were a good a better

195
00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,199
Speaker 1: little league coach than most of the other coaches that

196
00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:22,840
Speaker 1: you were coaching against, or do you think you were,

197
00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:24,439
Speaker 1: like how how did you get the players? Did you

198
00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:28,000
Speaker 1: draft him? Did you scout him? Oh? Well, you draft him.

199
00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:30,920
Speaker 1: You draft him. And I actually had kind of a

200
00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:34,520
Speaker 1: short end on the politics on that, because it helps

201
00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:38,400
Speaker 1: you if you'd spawned the kid, especially especially if you

202
00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:42,960
Speaker 1: spawned a good one, because he's automatically on your team. Yeah,

203
00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,400
Speaker 1: then he's automatically on your team. So I didn't have

204
00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:52,560
Speaker 1: that going for me, and then uh, I didn't. But yeah,

205
00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,719
Speaker 1: you picked him, and then uh, but you know, I

206
00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,120
Speaker 1: had a lot of youth and enthusiasm, and I think

207
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,640
Speaker 1: helped a lot. I think that, you know, I was excited,

208
00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:06,040
Speaker 1: so our teams were excited, and uh, and I would

209
00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,440
Speaker 1: try anything. You know, I wasn't caught up in convention.

210
00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,760
Speaker 1: And then I'll tell you I had a guy, um

211
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,160
Speaker 1: and I cherished this relationship to this day. I always

212
00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:22,079
Speaker 1: have regretted I haven't probably told him this and and

213
00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:26,120
Speaker 1: I heard he passed away. Um, there was a guy.

214
00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,320
Speaker 1: I worked at the the Holiday Inn. And it wasn't

215
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,959
Speaker 1: just a holiday in, it was this whole resort. So

216
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,800
Speaker 1: I was in Cody, Wyoming, Um, which is the east

217
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,839
Speaker 1: entrance of Yellowstone. So it was a it was a

218
00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:44,280
Speaker 1: holiday inn, but also it was a whole bunch of cabins.

219
00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,480
Speaker 1: You could stay in a cabin out back. They had

220
00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:52,240
Speaker 1: a mobile home park you could stay there. They had

221
00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,160
Speaker 1: a little frontier village, you know, kind of looked like

222
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,800
Speaker 1: an old western town. So it was a whole operation.

223
00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,760
Speaker 1: And I was kind of a grounds maintenance whatever they

224
00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:07,199
Speaker 1: needed done guy. Um when I was in college. But

225
00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,599
Speaker 1: across the street was a ray Stock Hills office and

226
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:16,800
Speaker 1: two of the best coaches, UH baseball coaches and Cody

227
00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:21,360
Speaker 1: and Cody was a baseball town um. And I grew

228
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,720
Speaker 1: up next to the barras Is. The barras Is Tuny

229
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:29,560
Speaker 1: Bears was um who was you know, the dad and

230
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,640
Speaker 1: had thirteen kids. And I was good friends with Chip Parris,

231
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:38,040
Speaker 1: who was the middle of the thirteen were the same age,

232
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,080
Speaker 1: so he was next door. The next place we lived

233
00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,120
Speaker 1: out in the country, but there in the next place

234
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:49,000
Speaker 1: and then but Ray stock Hill, Um was a great

235
00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:54,680
Speaker 1: coach there Cody for decades, and he had this accounting

236
00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,960
Speaker 1: office and he was something out of a Norman Rockwell paintings.

237
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:04,880
Speaker 1: Great big guy, glasses down on his nose, deep distinct voice,

238
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,320
Speaker 1: always a cigar in his mouth, sometimes lit, sometimes not,

239
00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:16,120
Speaker 1: depending on whether he was quitting or not. And um uh,

240
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,040
Speaker 1: you know, and just with bella stuff out. But just

241
00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:23,160
Speaker 1: a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant baseball guy. And I would go

242
00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,400
Speaker 1: over there and just ask him everything, and I mean everything,

243
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:28,840
Speaker 1: And I think even though we played each other, I

244
00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,840
Speaker 1: mean he was just forthcoming and loved baseball. And I

245
00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,360
Speaker 1: mean it would even be you know, he'd have a

246
00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,680
Speaker 1: stack of tacks papers all over the place. He has

247
00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,560
Speaker 1: a sole practitioner guy. There'd be taxed and papers everywhere.

248
00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:44,200
Speaker 1: Heating care I mean it's baseball. So he'd lean back

249
00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,280
Speaker 1: in his chair that would squeak and make noise and

250
00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:51,680
Speaker 1: was all mashed up because he was big and and

251
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:56,200
Speaker 1: you know, just talk baseball, you know. And I remember

252
00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,480
Speaker 1: one time I was coaching the All Star team, well

253
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:00,280
Speaker 1: you know, and I'd say, well, what's the layer? And

254
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,120
Speaker 1: we gonna do you know, what's his Casper like this,

255
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,360
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, so we'd go and it was

256
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,080
Speaker 1: it was really something, and I just learned a lot

257
00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,400
Speaker 1: about coaching and just in general being a coach. And

258
00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,680
Speaker 1: then and then you know my high school coach and

259
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:20,120
Speaker 1: John McDougal. Of course, he was kind of a rough

260
00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,960
Speaker 1: guying got quite a lot out of his teams in

261
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:24,640
Speaker 1: which I was in the middle of and on the

262
00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:29,080
Speaker 1: receiving end of. Then, um so, yeah, I had some

263
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:33,320
Speaker 1: good mentors there, but my conversations with Ray Stock I

264
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:37,920
Speaker 1: really cherished. And then, um then I moved from Cody,

265
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,680
Speaker 1: and then he moved from Cody, and I'd call him

266
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,240
Speaker 1: once in a while, just briefly, but he was he

267
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,480
Speaker 1: was really an inspiration. So you're halfway through law school

268
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:50,720
Speaker 1: and you decide you'd like to be a coach. Now,

269
00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,440
Speaker 1: law school is not cheap. You said earlier that you

270
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:57,200
Speaker 1: also went and got a master's afterwards. But were you

271
00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:59,480
Speaker 1: concerned at all about the finances? I mean, your first

272
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,920
Speaker 1: job you come out of law school and start coaching,

273
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:06,600
Speaker 1: is it cal Poly? I think, right, what what did

274
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,399
Speaker 1: you make to coach at cal Polgy? Well, when I

275
00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:14,440
Speaker 1: got out of law school, I owed the federal government

276
00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,760
Speaker 1: thirty eight thousand dollars and at that point in time

277
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,439
Speaker 1: it may as well been thirty eight million, because they

278
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,080
Speaker 1: were just as likely to get thirty eight million as

279
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:27,480
Speaker 1: they were thirty eight thousand. And um, because I didn't

280
00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,760
Speaker 1: have anything. I mean, I had a bashed bashed up

281
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,880
Speaker 1: well let me see mebe it was brighter days then.

282
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,920
Speaker 1: Oh no, I had a seventy nine cadillactive heil. I

283
00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,440
Speaker 1: loved that car. I probably should never should have sold it,

284
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:48,720
Speaker 1: but it started to rust out anyway. Um big looks

285
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,520
Speaker 1: like the Nick Nulty car on forty eight hour, except

286
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,280
Speaker 1: it wasn't. It was a hard top, a rag top,

287
00:17:55,359 --> 00:18:00,720
Speaker 1: and it didn't it wasn't convertible, and um, you know,

288
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,440
Speaker 1: but it's how I sold it in valdostat one time.

289
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:11,240
Speaker 1: But the uh done well? Then I figure going leveragees

290
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:13,960
Speaker 1: thing up to forty five thousand, get a Masters and

291
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,040
Speaker 1: the chance to get my foot in the door to coach.

292
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:23,360
Speaker 1: What difference did it make? Uh? And uh because they

293
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:28,760
Speaker 1: you know, they weren't any more likely to get You

294
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,520
Speaker 1: can only kill me once, I figured, you know, and

295
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:36,680
Speaker 1: and so then I uh, well and then I'm I'm

296
00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:42,840
Speaker 1: uh the sports Academy calling around trying to get a job,

297
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:46,480
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden come home one day

298
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:51,480
Speaker 1: to the place we're staying in Daphne, Alabama, said hey,

299
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:56,120
Speaker 1: great news, got a job. She says, what we're at?

300
00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:00,800
Speaker 1: I go Calpoli sand was abst focus and Louis Obispo

301
00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,800
Speaker 1: is one of the most beautiful places on earth. Uh

302
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:07,720
Speaker 1: and to be perfectly on at San Louis Obispo. Depending

303
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:13,560
Speaker 1: what you're looking for rivals h Hawaii or Yellowstone, I mean,

304
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:17,960
Speaker 1: it's it's really something and and anybody that hasn't gone

305
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:23,520
Speaker 1: really needs to go. But um uh and it's isolated

306
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:25,840
Speaker 1: there on the central coast. I mean it's a place

307
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:29,600
Speaker 1: where it would be a dream to live. And then um,

308
00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,600
Speaker 1: so San Louis Abismo allows tremendously good news. And and

309
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,600
Speaker 1: in part of it, see, I came out at about

310
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,159
Speaker 1: the worst time you could possibly come out, because it

311
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:43,320
Speaker 1: was the very year that they went from unlimited graduate

312
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:47,679
Speaker 1: assistance to where you can only have two So all

313
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:53,480
Speaker 1: these major programs were um cutting just massive numbers of

314
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:59,840
Speaker 1: graduate assistance and uh and so um because you know,

315
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,280
Speaker 1: there was a time where anybody would take free help.

316
00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,359
Speaker 1: And if you could distinguish yourself. You'd have a chance

317
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,359
Speaker 1: to move in the profession if they reduced it to

318
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,360
Speaker 1: two for division one. So division one it's pretty much out.

319
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,400
Speaker 1: And so then Cal Pauli was Division two at the time.

320
00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:19,040
Speaker 1: So then they armed me. I drive the big Cadillac,

321
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,600
Speaker 1: the old Cadillac up there to San Louis Obispo and

322
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:29,720
Speaker 1: uh and uh, well as my first started coaching, so

323
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,199
Speaker 1: she goes. So I tell her, you know, San Louis Obispo,

324
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,080
Speaker 1: and she says, well, how much were we gonna make?

325
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,960
Speaker 1: And I said three thousand. She says three thousand. What's

326
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,920
Speaker 1: the thirty three or three thousand a month? That equals

327
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,240
Speaker 1: thirty I go no, no, no, no, three thousand for

328
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,840
Speaker 1: the year. And uh, this is in nineteen this is

329
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:54,159
Speaker 1: in nine seven. So it's not like that long ago. No,

330
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:56,879
Speaker 1: it was, it was in the modern era. It was

331
00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,879
Speaker 1: this was this was both colonial. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I

332
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,480
Speaker 1: three thousand dollars a little bit more money, but it's

333
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:09,280
Speaker 1: still not that much money now. And it was yeah,

334
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 1: and you're married, did you have kids? Yeah? Yeah. We

335
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,840
Speaker 1: lived in student housing and the one guy he lived

336
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 1: in a place called Mustang Village, which was student housing,

337
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,480
Speaker 1: and the one guy was kind of cool. He says,

338
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,600
Speaker 1: all right. He says, uh, no problem. He says he

339
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,960
Speaker 1: could stay stay here, and he puts me up kind

340
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,880
Speaker 1: of in the back corner and no furniture, but he says,

341
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,400
Speaker 1: I got a mattress and throws a mattress up there,

342
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,119
Speaker 1: and we made a pile of blankets and stuff in

343
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:43,359
Speaker 1: the corner for my daughter and and uh and they

344
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,440
Speaker 1: had this really uptight couple downstairs. You know, one of

345
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 1: those uh you know, you know that the students that

346
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,639
Speaker 1: think they're really evolved, you know, the type that they

347
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 1: go to college, you learn one or two things. They

348
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 1: think they really evolved, and had that blissfully yet judgmental

349
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 1: expression on their face probably the first time they lived together.

350
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, they would knock on the ceiling

351
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 1: if they felt like there was too much noise. And

352
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,920
Speaker 1: so then of course I practiced tribling the basketball and

353
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:24,440
Speaker 1: then um, so you know, and then after that I

354
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:29,600
Speaker 1: wouldn't hear too much from him, but uh, the now

355
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 1: there's some great memories. And cal Pauly was the other

356
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,400
Speaker 1: thing is so then Hearing had to work, and um,

357
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 1: and he worked for this entrepreneur guy and made some

358
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 1: money and then in the off season, Um, I would

359
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 1: substitute teach and then and Kelly and the state of

360
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 1: California would pay you some substitute teach and so um,

361
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 1: and back then it was probably about seventy dollars a day.

362
00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 1: And so I'd go substitute teach if if I didn't

363
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,880
Speaker 1: have to, you know, once the season was over enough,

364
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 1: if I wasn't involved in recruiting or something like that,

365
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,440
Speaker 1: just any days I could get to make some money. So,

366
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 1: I mean, what is your wife's response? And then you

367
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 1: got a baby, you get a three thousand dollar a

368
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 1: year coaching job, you have a law degree. Did she

369
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,239
Speaker 1: ever look at you and say, like, you're crazy? Why

370
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,680
Speaker 1: don't you just get a job as a lawyer? Well,

371
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,680
Speaker 1: I'll tell you it was kind of funny. At graduation

372
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 1: from law school. My dad's always hated lawyers, so he

373
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,479
Speaker 1: started laughing. My mom wasn't happy. You know, you went

374
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 1: to law school. You know, Sharon deserves the house and

375
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,639
Speaker 1: this and that. So my mom wasn't happy. Um. And

376
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:48,120
Speaker 1: then all right, her side of the family definitely wasn't pleased. Um.

377
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 1: You know, it's like great news, Alright, Mike's got his

378
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 1: law degree, all right, that's upstanding, where they going to

379
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,880
Speaker 1: live and all that. Well, Um, I got some news

380
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 1: for you. We're gonna move to Alabama and get a

381
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:05,239
Speaker 1: master so I could coach football, you know. And uh

382
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 1: and the thought really was, um, not necessarily to do

383
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 1: it forever, but to do it for a year, uh

384
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: maybe two or three, get it out of my system

385
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: and and uh and go on from there. But she

386
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: was always very supportive of it, you know. And she

387
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 1: was always kind of ready to go along for the right.

388
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 1: And the thing is, and I wouldn't be here without

389
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: my wife, Sharon. And then, um, she made more than

390
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 1: money than I did for ten years, I mean on

391
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: this whole journey, for ten years, she made most of

392
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: the money. And that wasn't like crazy money. This isn't

393
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: one of those you know where she was like a

394
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: Merry Kay executive or or you know, a high school

395
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 1: teacher or a nurse or something like that, or a

396
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 1: pharmaceutical salesperson. This is this is a deal where you know,

397
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:08,120
Speaker 1: a very good one, but administrative assistant, maybe illegal secretary,

398
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,160
Speaker 1: you know, handling all this stuff at somebody's office type

399
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: of deal. And and uh so no, she she made

400
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: more money than I did for for over ten years.

401
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 1: When you're living in that apartment, you said you had

402
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: a mattress and then you had some blankets for the

403
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 1: baby to sleep on. Did you actually have furniture while

404
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 1: you were there? That kind of you know, I mean

405
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: there were some built ins, but no, not really. So

406
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 1: you're so you're there for a year and then you

407
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: go to some place called College of the Desert. Where

408
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 1: is College of the Desert? Palm Desert, California. Um, A

409
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: lot of people wanting to live there right now. Um

410
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 1: it's uh yeah, Palm Desert, California, sore just east of

411
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: Palm Springs. So you make Cowege. You made three thousand

412
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: dollars a year at cow pol. You go to College

413
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: of the Desert and what do they pay you? I've

414
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:07,120
Speaker 1: made I think I made ten. That's a big race.

415
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: But it's still not a lot of money. But it's

416
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: a big race. Yeah. No, that was that was an

417
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: exciting day. M grant and so then again, uh substitute

418
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: teach you know in between. Um so, but yeah, in

419
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: California had a funny deal. I mean at one time

420
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: there's a great deal. There was a time when California

421
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,640
Speaker 1: opened their j c's all these coaches, I mean, they

422
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: make crazy money if they get one of those slots

423
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: with the California j C. And there's like ninety of them,

424
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: you know, and then what happened. It was such a

425
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 1: sweet deal. They these these coaches would get on the

426
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 1: track and then they quit coaching, and there was designed

427
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: to open up teaching slots for coaches so you could

428
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 1: have coaches. Well, these guys would stick around quick coach

429
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: and let me not have the aggregation to coaching and

430
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 1: then teach like two tennis classes and still get the

431
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:12,159
Speaker 1: same salary. So you know, I mean, uh yeah, so

432
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 1: so you know sometimes, uh, the policies there, you know,

433
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 1: they've always had interesting politicis of that state that that

434
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: would be one of them. Did you coach in Japan? Well,

435
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 1: I did a camp. I did a camp in Japan.

436
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 1: I didn't coach in Japan. I did a camp and

437
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: then which was pretty that was that's kind of a

438
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:39,239
Speaker 1: neat deal almost. If you ever saw the movie Mr Baseball, Uh,

439
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: if you want to see two movies that are great

440
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,679
Speaker 1: in Japan's Japan is a fascinating place, but two movies

441
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 1: that are great as far as kind of the disconnect

442
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,120
Speaker 1: between the the West and the East, like in Japan,

443
00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: Mr Baseball and lost in translation, and we stayed in

444
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 1: that same hotel that lost in translation was and uh

445
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: but no, that crazy stuff because you know, they have

446
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 1: a variety of customs that you're just not familiar with,

447
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 1: you know, and you're not trying to tack anybody off

448
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: or nothing, but um you know, uh like for example,

449
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 1: in Japan, there's no spitting on the field. It's bad

450
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: form to spit on the field where you know, Americans

451
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: spit right left and in the middle, you know. And

452
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 1: then um uh and then uh so we come off

453
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,479
Speaker 1: the field and the only thing that saved it from

454
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 1: being me is these guys beat me to it. So

455
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: these two other American coaches, um, um beat me to

456
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: this thing. Um So they have this tub so in

457
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: the lock and this is in one of those like

458
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: where the Tokyo Giants played or somebody. So it was

459
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 1: like a major stadium. There's a stadium where one of

460
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: their you know, their major league teams play and that

461
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: type of thing. And it was this aster of turf

462
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: field and we did camp out there all day long,

463
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: tons and tons and tons of players and it's a

464
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: combination of corporate league and youth leagues, you know, because

465
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: these corporations all have a football team and you know,

466
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: like IBM or somebody. And then so we're out there

467
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: all day having these uh, you know, drills and competitions

468
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 1: and stuff and and uh, and there's a tub in

469
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: the locker room and so these big guys go in

470
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 1: there and they and they immediately getting a tub and

471
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 1: starts splashing around and the tubs like a jacuzzi, but

472
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: it's got no jets. And next to that tub is

473
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: these uh, these uh kind of big bowls like you

474
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: put popcorn in or something. And um, and then all

475
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: of a sudden, he's Japanese guys are surrounding the tub,

476
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: standing there staring at the tube. GUIs flashing around, cooling

477
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: off in the tub. Um, you know, with their arms folded,

478
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: a little bit fuddled, like what do we do with this? Well,

479
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 1: this is so improper. Well something has to be done,

480
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: but there are guests, so what are we gonna do?

481
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 1: And then um, Dave the guy that brought us over.

482
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: And and Dave was a guy who was from Hawaii,

483
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: but he'd been on a mission, a Mormon mission there

484
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: in Japan. Spoke Japanese and just love Japan. So he

485
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: was over there. Uh he's still coaching over there now,

486
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: I believe, because he brings his team out to our

487
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: place all the time. But um he says, hey, hey,

488
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: you can't do you can't do that. No, this is

489
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: part of their ceremony things. So in Japan they had

490
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: this deal and I don't know the symbolism of it,

491
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: and a lot of times that involves ancestors and things

492
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 1: like that, but that cub was designed for as you

493
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: take a shower, you to scoop out the water and

494
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 1: ceremoniously the water goes over one shoulder, goes over the

495
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: other shoulder, then goes over your head. It wasn't for

496
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: two Americans just basically canon ball into and start splashing around.

497
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 1: And so yeah, the look on those guys space was priceless.

498
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: And so then they got out of the tub. And

499
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: then the funny thing is that you had the tightly

500
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 1: tightly contested competitions, I mean crazy tightly contested, and then

501
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: in the end, um, uh, they would settle it, you know,

502
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: they'd get the top three teams. They'd settle it by

503
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: doing rock paper scissors, And I'm not sure I always

504
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: thought that that, you know, that was a US invention.

505
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: They see the two he has them of it, and

506
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 1: what was at stake and and um what they saw

507
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: with and I'm not sure japandon and that that stuff

508
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: be sure to catch Live editions about kicked the coverage

509
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: with Clay Travis weekdays at six am Eastern, three am Pacific.

510
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: We're talking to Mike Leach. You're listening to the Winds

511
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: and Lost his podcast Coach Leaches with Washington State, UH Cougars.

512
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: They've been on a good run. We're gonna get to

513
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: that in a little bit. But so you're in Japan,

514
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: you're making relatively small amounts of money. What was your

515
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: break and at what point did you start thinking, you

516
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: know what, maybe I'll be able to do this and

517
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: actually make a living doing it. The one place I

518
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 1: did coach though overseas is I wasn't in Finland for

519
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: a season. I coached in Bory, Finland for a season.

520
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: How did how did you end up in Finland? Well,

521
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: they'd lost the coach late. I always wanted to go

522
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: oversee but as broke and so then all of a

523
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,239
Speaker 1: sudden they're looking for a coach. So I I had

524
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: for it, and it was you know, it was kind

525
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 1: of an interesting year because I uh uh so I

526
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: you know, all of a sudden finished guys. So I

527
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: went over there and uh they have a finished foot

528
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: finish American Football League at the time. Yeah. Yeah, So

529
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: it's kind of it's basically like uh uh, it's basically

530
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 1: like the team would be ages, like my youngest was

531
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 1: probably fifteen, my oldest was probably forty five, which was

532
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: older than me at the time, and then um, you

533
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 1: know the factory workers, students that type of thing, and

534
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: then um, you know you could have one American on

535
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: the team. Uh uh, well one American on the field

536
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: on either side of the ball. And then um, anyway,

537
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: they the the the So I'd coached the College of

538
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 1: the Desert and then I get over there to Finland

539
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: somewhere around April, and then um coached there the whole

540
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: time until football started at Iowa Wesleyan College. And I

541
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: went to Iowa Wesleyan College coach with a guy named

542
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 1: hell Mummy, uh which you know he was a great coach.

543
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: And that's where um the air raid is as far

544
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 1: as you know, uh, our portion of it evolved. And

545
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 1: then um, the so how did you end up? How

546
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: did how much? How did you find how mummy? And

547
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: how did he find you? Well? I met how at

548
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: d y U spring football, so we went to b

549
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: y U spring football to study what they were doing.

550
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: He'd just gotten a job at at Iowa Westleyan College,

551
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 1: and UM, I was going to throw the ball and

552
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: all that sort of thing. So college in the desert

553
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: as coaching linebackers, which I think helped me a lot,

554
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: you know, as I became an offensive coach, but um,

555
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: as coaching linebackers, wanted to get back on offense. Uh,

556
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 1: I wanted to coach offensive line. He got the job

557
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 1: and and because that's what I had first done at

558
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 1: cal Poly, was assistant offensive line coach. And then he

559
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 1: gets the job and uh at Iowa Wesley and then

560
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 1: UH hired me and then UH trying to think what

561
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 1: I made, I think I made thirteen thousand and then

562
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: UM and then uh well, and there was no substitute

563
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: teaching really, and I it wasn't very productive too, because

564
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: they only paid like thirty dollars a day to substitute teach.

565
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 1: You know, it was better off learning football and sticking

566
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: with that, you know in UM. But Uh. So you

567
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: guys are there for several years, you start having some success,

568
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: and then three years and then how mummy goes to

569
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: Valdosta State is then you follow him? Yeah? Then I

570
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 1: went with Aldobaldosta. And so I'm fascinated by this. You

571
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:23,240
Speaker 1: go from Valdosta State to Kentucky. What did it feel

572
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: like to go up? Because at that point in time,

573
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,720
Speaker 1: you have coached at cal Poly College of the Desert,

574
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: the POORI Bears, I think we said over in Finland, Iowa, Wesleyan,

575
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: Valdosta State, and then suddenly you're the offensive coordinator and

576
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: quarterbacks coach at Kentucky and this is Did that feel

577
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: like a totally different universe? Well, it was a little bit.

578
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,839
Speaker 1: I mean, so we're at Valdosta State for three years,

579
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: then went to uh then went to Valdosta, which I

580
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: loved Valdosta, I mean one of place and Valdosta you know,

581
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: it was football seven. I mean that's I'm They're obsessed

582
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: with football in Valdosta, right, I mean it's like the

583
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,280
Speaker 1: I mean, even in a country that is obsessed with football,

584
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 1: Valdosta is like a different level of obsession. Right. Oh yeah,

585
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: they called it winners Ville And when kids were born

586
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 1: in Valdosta, they'd give him a football. Yeah, and then

587
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:26,359
Speaker 1: uh and and you know, and it's uh. I mean

588
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 1: when when I was there, they uh, let's see they

589
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: had uh they've gone to the state I mean just

590
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: a state championship a crazy number of times. Um. And

591
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 1: for people who don't know, and I was people listening

592
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: all over the country, Valdosta is in Georgia, and it's

593
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 1: basically right down on the border between Georgia and the

594
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: state of Florida, right, I mean right in the football

595
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 1: heavy universe. Yeah. And it's right on the shores of

596
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: the Oki Finoki Swamp. So I mean it's it's old school,

597
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 1: and it's uh, just a very place. Moss on the trees.

598
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 1: You might drive by alligators or one might come up

599
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 1: behind your apartment. Um, great little streams and lakes to

600
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 1: go fishing on. I mean, it's a great place. And

601
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 1: so then the food is just outstanding. And then uh,

602
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: and it was hot too, Like everybody says that wherever

603
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,760
Speaker 1: they're it's hot. Now it's not as hot as veldof

604
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: well except for College of the Desert that's hotter. And

605
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: then um oh and Iowa in August might be hotter

606
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: but anyway other than that, and so then um veld

607
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 1: off but for five years got hired by the University

608
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 1: of Kentucky. Hell did Yeah, I went to Kentucky whereas

609
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,399
Speaker 1: offensive coordinator. And did you feel like you were rich

610
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 1: when you got I mean, I at that point, I

611
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: don't know what you're making, but thirteen thousand dollars at

612
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: Iowa Wesley and I don't imagine you were making a

613
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 1: ton of Valdosta. Do you remember what your offensive coordinator

614
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 1: salary was at Kentucky. Yeah, it's like seventy or something.

615
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: And so anyway, that was guide to the turning point. Yes,

616
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 1: the turning point, like some somewhere about the time I

617
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 1: got the Kentucky job is when um, I guess I

618
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 1: realize I can't say realized, but they're just because I

619
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 1: never really felt pinned in one way or the other. Um. Yeah,

620
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 1: it's when I felt like that I would probably uh,

621
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: you know, coach, and that uh, there wasn't going to

622
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: be any going back to law that I would probably

623
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 1: coach because probably to that point I really had ruled

624
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 1: out going back to law. But um, but about the

625
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 1: time I got that job at Kentucky, I kind of

626
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:47,800
Speaker 1: assumed that I would uh coach from here on. Fox

627
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.

628
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: Catch all of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot

629
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: com and within the I Heart Radio app search f

630
00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: s R to listen live. Well, so the reason why

631
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: I'm asking you about salary as coach, we got a

632
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: lot of people listening. We're talking to Mike Leech. This

633
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 1: is the Winds and Losses podcast with Clay Travis. I

634
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: like to focus on people finding something that they enjoy

635
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 1: and it becomes a passion and the money might not

636
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: follow that passion for a long time. And it's possible

637
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: the money never does follow. But you have been coaching

638
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:21,800
Speaker 1: for a long time before you got to make in

639
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: seventy thousand dollars a year, right, so you had to

640
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 1: love in some way what you were doing and you

641
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: weren't motivated by the money that you were making at

642
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: that point in time. Oh no, I let's say so,

643
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: so let's say between uh eight seven, let's see eighty

644
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 1: seven two, three, four five six, So at least over

645
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 1: ten years, over ten years, my salary was between three

646
00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 1: and forty and my wife made more uh uh continued

647
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 1: to pop up kids, how many how many kids did

648
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: you have? Because I mean your wife's making more is

649
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,839
Speaker 1: administrative assistant. But I mean, you guys are I mean,

650
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: I'm there's a lot of people out there listening who

651
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: are going to know this feeling. I mean, you guys

652
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 1: are are not in any way putting away a lot

653
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 1: of money. It's not like you had savings. It's not

654
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: like anybody. We didn't have any money. Yeah, we we

655
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: we we were okay. So in l A, we lived

656
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 1: in the barrio, which was actually kind of cool, like

657
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 1: you know, um, you know. I talked to my you know,

658
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 1: players recruits. They said, well, you've never lived in the hood. Now,

659
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,479
Speaker 1: that's not true. I lived in the hood for three years.

660
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 1: During that years there going to law school where we

661
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,399
Speaker 1: had the bars on the window and the helicopter would

662
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 1: fly over at night and shun select in the window.

663
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: Because Pepperdines in Malibu, but you couldn't afford to live

664
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 1: out by a Pepperdine. No. I lived in Canoga Park,

665
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 1: and I can tell you exactly. I lived between Van

666
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 1: Owen and Sherman Way off of the Soto and and

667
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 1: um and uh no. It was uh uh no. It

668
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 1: was like the barrio back there and then um, and

669
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: which I enjoyed it. I mean I I mean I

670
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: didn't have a problem. I mean there was you know,

671
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 1: gang spreak paint on stuff, but you know, nobody was

672
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 1: really unfriendly to me per se. And then um, going

673
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 1: my balcony kind of see it come together. Sometimes you

674
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:27,320
Speaker 1: hear gunshots that the place next to me. You know,

675
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: they would uh there would be some celebration or a

676
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: party and started playing the music and and I could

677
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 1: look over in the backyard, and I got along with

678
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 1: these guests too, because um, you know, I was playing

679
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 1: kind of a men's league baseball team, and so I

680
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 1: throw the ball around with the kid next door in

681
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 1: in in his parents place. You know how they they've uh,

682
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: you know, a bunch of the Mexican families get over

683
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 1: there and have a party and you can see and

684
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,720
Speaker 1: they'd be playing the music. And then you know about

685
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 1: midnight or one, um, the you know, the kids and

686
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:16,320
Speaker 1: the wives and kids would go home. Those going to

687
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 1: stay out there and start shooting firearms up in the air.

688
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 1: I mean not at anybody, but just sort of like fireworks.

689
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: They just pull their guns out and just fired up

690
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: in this Yeah, just just started tortured, you know, and

691
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:33,359
Speaker 1: then whoao you know, and then uh uh but now

692
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 1: you know again it was it was kind of an

693
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 1: edgy place, but I never I never really felt threatened

694
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: that I knew I wouldn't live there forever, you know,

695
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: but I did want to learn as much about it

696
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: as I could. So you're studying, like contract law, sitting

697
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 1: in your apartment in the l A area, and it's

698
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: you know, midnight or whatever, and then somebody just starts

699
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 1: shooting off guns to celebrate a party next door. Yeah

700
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 1: you could, but after a while you could almost hear

701
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: it coming. Um, initially I thought it was firecrackers. Well

702
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: then the other thing it was, you know, be the

703
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:17,319
Speaker 1: music and stuff like that. Oh. Sometimes you'd go, um,

704
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 1: maybe drive to school or something, and there'd be a

705
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: sign shot up or something that had been shut up before. Uh.

706
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 1: We're right on the shores of the l A River

707
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 1: and the l A River. The banks of the l

708
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 1: A River. It's not even in fact a river. It's

709
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 1: a spillway. It's the ugliest river run earth. But we

710
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: had shoreline, a shoreline apartment run the l A River.

711
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,720
Speaker 1: That's it. Oh yeah, no, I've seen it a bunch,

712
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 1: I mean, and the only time it ever has water

713
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 1: almost is when it's like a few times when it rains,

714
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: and then it's like a flood. Right, oh yeah, and

715
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 1: then typically it's used for car chases and movies and

716
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 1: and then, um, so we're right on the banks of

717
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: the l A River. Oh this was kind of cool. Okay,

718
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 1: So of time, you hear these tires screeching, you know,

719
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: around the corner, and these were kind of tight corners,

720
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: you know, like um, you know, with kind of apartments

721
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Well, so all of a sudden, uh,

722
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 1: this car flips and the car in front stops and

723
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 1: they're both in their brand new Masdes, kind of sporty

724
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 1: looking Masdes. There's there's one cars upside downs, and neighbors

725
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: commerciing out me included, helped this guy out of his car,

726
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:36,800
Speaker 1: and um, your knees all kind of shaken up and

727
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:42,240
Speaker 1: and um, and I don't know if he spoke English

728
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:44,840
Speaker 1: or not, but he's all kind of shaken up, and

729
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 1: we're all right, don't worry. You know, we've called the ambulance.

730
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:49,880
Speaker 1: You know they're coming. You know they're going to be

731
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: here to help you. Well, so then you you hear

732
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 1: the you know, the sirens. Police show up right away,

733
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: and you know, all right, like what happened or something

734
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 1: like that. And and then and then all of a sudden,

735
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 1: you say, you know, you look for the guy. They asked,

736
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: all right, now who was driving the car? You look

737
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 1: for the guy he's turned run. The last time I

738
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 1: saw him, he'd gone through a spot in the fence,

739
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 1: a space in the fence, and he was running up

740
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 1: the l A River getting out of there as fast

741
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 1: he could. Turns out those cars were stolen. Yeah, and

742
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 1: then um, so I mean, you know it had its

743
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: own you know kind of deal. And so then uh,

744
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: and then you know, driving to Pepperdine, we were against

745
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 1: traffic both ways, so that worked out. And then um

746
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:50,399
Speaker 1: uh yeah, and then um but uh uh well, let's see.

747
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: So Janine was born in l A uh in l

748
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:59,399
Speaker 1: A while we were in law school. And then uh,

749
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: Kim was born in uh Burlington I while we were

750
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:10,320
Speaker 1: at IWA Wesleyan College. And and my son Cody, he

751
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:16,240
Speaker 1: was born in veld Asta and uh, and then Kirsten

752
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: was born. Uh. Kirsten was born literally about two hours

753
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 1: before I raised the catch the plane to go play

754
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 1: the University of Florida in Gainesville, in Lexington, Kentucky. You

755
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: guys had I went and watched some of your games

756
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 1: when you were at Kentucky. You had the air Raid,

757
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 1: you had everybody like wearing the like helmets. If I

758
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 1: remember correctly, he had Tim Couch. I think if I'm

759
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 1: if I'm if I'm remembering all this correct, Tim, Tim

760
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 1: Catch was a quarterback. Yeah, did you recruit Tim Couch?

761
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:55,360
Speaker 1: And actually that was Bill Curry, right, And then he

762
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 1: was already there when you guys got there. He was

763
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 1: already there in in Um, he was already there and

764
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:08,839
Speaker 1: it wasn't a perfect matchup for everybody. Um, so, uh,

765
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 1: Tim was already there and he was thinking about transferring

766
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 1: when you guys got hired, right, Well, because you know,

767
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: Bill ran an option type of stuff and that's what

768
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 1: was best for him. Won't worked for him. And then, um,

769
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 1: you know that's not really Tim's deal, the quarterback, you know,

770
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 1: getting the quarterback involved in the Yeah, it never made

771
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 1: any sense for a Tip Touch to have ever signed

772
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:31,800
Speaker 1: with Bill Curry in the first place. That must have

773
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 1: been a hell of a recruiting job. Well, it's one

774
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:36,800
Speaker 1: of those awkward things and you know you see it

775
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 1: from time to time. It's one of those things where

776
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 1: you know, he's the best player in the state. So

777
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 1: you're gonna get in a bunch of trouble if you

778
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 1: don't recruit him. And then if you do recruit him. Um,

779
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 1: if you do recruit him, then there's another set of problems,

780
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 1: you know, because what you're doing doesn't fit that guy

781
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: or whatever. You know. And um, so he's kind of

782
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 1: a perfect fit for your offense. Right to be able

783
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 1: to throw the ball over the fields as quarterback you've

784
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 1: ever had. Uh, you know, he might be the most talented.

785
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 1: He's really talented. He could make every throw right. I

786
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 1: mean he had a big time arm. Oh he was

787
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 1: like well, tim six four way two pounds. Uh, real

788
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:26,319
Speaker 1: quick footed, not as fast as he was quick footed. Um,

789
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 1: the first pick in the draft and deserved it. You know,

790
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:34,399
Speaker 1: went to an expansion team and got swallowed up there

791
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 1: a little bit, but then then had some injuries. But

792
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:40,359
Speaker 1: if he didn't go to an expansion team, I think

793
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: catch is one of the great ones that we're talking about,

794
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 1: you know. So he ends up at the Browns when

795
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 1: they started football again. He's second on the team in

796
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 1: rushing and he runs the four nine. So he was

797
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 1: running for his life the best he could. And then

798
00:49:54,320 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 1: um he uh uh but now he he was real

799
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 1: talented and then uh and wish we'd had him more,

800
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 1: he declared after his junior year. But he was the

801
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:12,759
Speaker 1: first pick in the draft. So um, from that standpoint,

802
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 1: some of that made some sid Now what was that

803
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:17,840
Speaker 1: like coaching in Kentucky? You talked about how much you

804
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 1: like Valdosta. I mean, Lexington is a beautiful town. Oh,

805
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 1: it's a great town, a great town, great people. Um.

806
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: You know the one thing that if if the University

807
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 1: of Kentucky is doing anything, the whole state's involved. I

808
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 1: mean Kentucky, the University of Kentucky could be having at

809
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:45,759
Speaker 1: Jack's tournament and um uh trivial pursuit or whatever you

810
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 1: I mean name it, I mean in the whole states involved.

811
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:53,439
Speaker 1: And uh so that part was really outstanding. I really

812
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 1: liked Kentucky. And then um, and you guys are there

813
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 1: where Rick Pettino was winning a title, right. Uh. Patino

814
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:07,200
Speaker 1: had won the national championship one year, was deep into

815
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 1: it the next couple. Yeah, heeds a He's a good guy,

816
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 1: always very supportive of us. And then Rick went to

817
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 1: the the Celtics, and then Tubby Smith came in and

818
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: say it was really successful too, Yeah, I mean one

819
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:24,720
Speaker 1: A title. So you're starting to have a lot of success.

820
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 1: You're scoring a lot of points. You got the overall

821
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 1: number one recruit, I mean sorry, number one draft pick

822
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 1: in Tim Couch, and then you get an opportunity like that.

823
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 1: At that point did you start thinking I want my

824
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,879
Speaker 1: own shop? Like when did you start thinking, Hey, I'd

825
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,359
Speaker 1: like to be a head coach. Well, I'd always thought

826
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 1: that from the beginning, but I wasn't in any hurry

827
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 1: and I was gonna and and actually, uh could have

828
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:51,839
Speaker 1: been head coach at vald Austin if I hadn't gone

829
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: to Kentucky. And that was one of the toughest decisions

830
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 1: I had to make, was you know, whether I stay

831
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 1: at veld aust or whether How did you decide that?

832
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 1: A lot of times people have tough decisions to make.

833
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 1: You could be a head coach of Valdosta, you could

834
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 1: go to be an offensive coordinator at Kentucky. How close

835
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 1: did you come to stay in at Valdosta? Close? Because

836
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 1: I loved Valdosta, I mean part of it. I stayed

837
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 1: up all night, stayed up all night, and then I

838
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 1: um hurried to the plane to Lecington in the morning.

839
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 1: So until like that morning, you didn't even know what

840
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:23,280
Speaker 1: you were going to decide to do until you hopped

841
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,320
Speaker 1: on the plane to fly to Lexington. I honestly figured

842
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 1: that out about two hours before the plane left. And

843
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:32,880
Speaker 1: then um, and then went to Kentucky and then um

844
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 1: uh uh well, and then you know, we had two

845
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 1: really good years there. I should have gone to a

846
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 1: bowl both years. Came really close the first year, then

847
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 1: been to a bowling forever. They won one game the

848
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 1: year before, and then and then we uh went to

849
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 1: the Outback Bowl the next year, and then um and

850
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 1: then um well, then I had the chance to be

851
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:05,759
Speaker 1: offensive coordinator at the University of Oklahoma, which what was

852
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 1: exciting about that was Bob Stoops had just gotten hired.

853
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 1: Were about the same age, and then um uh uh well,

854
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 1: and they had the number one defense in the SEC

855
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 1: at Florida. He was he was the coach at a

856
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 1: defensive coordinator for spurry or at Florida, right, and then

857
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 1: we had the number one offense, and then the opportunity

858
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:34,799
Speaker 1: to combine that I think was intriguing to both of us.

859
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 1: And so then I went to Oklahoma and I thought

860
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 1: I'd be there for ten years and then um um

861
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:46,880
Speaker 1: and you know we uh had quite a bit of

862
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 1: success that first year because there Oklahoma hadn't gone to

863
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:57,400
Speaker 1: a bowl. Uh, they are towards the bottom of the conference. Offensively, Uh,

864
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 1: we end up towards the top pleaded passing. Um. You know,

865
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 1: I think we were third points, which was kind of

866
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 1: impressive when you consider um, Nebraska and Texas were just

867
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 1: on a tear then and then um and then uh

868
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 1: anyway go to a ball and so then we uh um,

869
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:31,319
Speaker 1: Well then I get the chance to go to Texas Tech,

870
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:35,759
Speaker 1: which was surprising. How did that happen? So you're you're

871
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 1: did you have an agent? Like how do you get

872
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:39,839
Speaker 1: reached out to at that time in two thousand by

873
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 1: Texas Tech? I didn't have an agent, but then I

874
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 1: had kind of one ready to step in if anything

875
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:53,880
Speaker 1: came my way, because you know, uh, agents don't really

876
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 1: find your jobs. I mean, um, they always tell you

877
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:02,239
Speaker 1: they can or at least maybe uh. And you know,

878
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 1: I've had some good advice and I've had something uh

879
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 1: that we're quite beneficial from an agent and um, especially

880
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,919
Speaker 1: with contracts and things like that. But you know, those

881
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 1: jobs are pretty much they either come your way or

882
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 1: you find them yourself, you know. And uh um, but

883
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 1: you know he was I had a pretty good one

884
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:32,840
Speaker 1: ready to go. And so then I got hired a

885
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 1: text Tech And had you ever been to lot of

886
00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 1: like how did you do the interview process? Like how

887
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:43,279
Speaker 1: did that happen? I'd been to love it before. Uh,

888
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:49,920
Speaker 1: I've been to love it before. Uh shoot, blew all

889
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,400
Speaker 1: that interview process and love it was an unmitigated disaster.

890
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 1: It was a disaster about it. Okay, So so uh

891
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:04,880
Speaker 1: so um, well and all this was very forthcoming to

892
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 1: you know, to Bob Stoops and everybody, and so you know,

893
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 1: and I told him, you know, I'm talking to Texas

894
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 1: Tech and this that the other thing. And so I

895
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 1: talked to Tech in Oklahoma City and then the idea

896
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 1: was we're going to play Texas Tech. And it was

897
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:28,279
Speaker 1: Spike Taxas last Game, a guy that I really admire. Um.

898
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 1: And actually I wouldn't talk to Tech until I got

899
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:38,279
Speaker 1: his blessing on taking a job because I wasn't going

900
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 1: to take a job at Texas Tech unless I felt

901
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 1: like Spike was supportive of me, you know. Uh. Uh

902
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:50,239
Speaker 1: you know, Spike was the winning his coach in the

903
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 1: history of Tech and some other things, and I just

904
00:56:53,680 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 1: thought that was important and so um and and so

905
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:02,879
Speaker 1: you know, Spike says, you know, it's a good job.

906
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:06,279
Speaker 1: I'm retiring and you have to go take it right

907
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 1: And so then I, um, so I talked to Tech

908
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 1: and then uh so the idea is is, um, Oklahoma,

909
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 1: uh is going to play in Lovock. It's Spike's last

910
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:34,439
Speaker 1: game and playing Oklahoma. So then, uh, I guess these

911
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 1: guys hiring me thought Oklahoma was gonna cruise to a

912
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 1: victory and then they were going to be heroes for

913
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 1: hiring me or something like that. But so we go

914
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 1: down there and uh and we get beat by Tech.

915
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 1: I mean, we don't get crushed, but we get beat,

916
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 1: you know, and it's I don't know that Tech trailed

917
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 1: the whole game, you know, and uh and Cliff Kingsbury

918
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 1: was a quarterback of it. It would become my quarterback

919
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:11,440
Speaker 1: in a few months. But um then uh so we

920
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:16,680
Speaker 1: go down there and we get beat and uh and

921
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:21,520
Speaker 1: so the idea is this, uh is right after the game,

922
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to go to the hotel and then go

923
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 1: over there and uh, interview with Texas Tech. Okay, so

924
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 1: so then um, I go, they know I'm staying behind.

925
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:42,840
Speaker 1: I go, I go put on my suit and all

926
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 1: this stuff. So I looked all spiffy and I come

927
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:51,000
Speaker 1: out of my hotel room and who's down in the

928
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 1: lobby but the entire University Oklahoma party, all the coaches,

929
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 1: all the players, president, everybody. And what had happened? Now,

930
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 1: some of these charter airlines are just super sleazy, okay,

931
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 1: and um, so what had happened is, um, so we

932
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:22,840
Speaker 1: get beat, Um, we'll go back to hotel. And it

933
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:25,320
Speaker 1: was not my favorite hotel as a matter of fact,

934
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:29,479
Speaker 1: well the worst hotel we stayed at on the road.

935
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:36,040
Speaker 1: And we come out of the hotel and in Oklahoma

936
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 1: gets there after the game and they say, okay, the

937
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:45,840
Speaker 1: charter services, we've broken a wheel in Phoenix. We're not

938
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:52,800
Speaker 1: coming to get you. And uh and you know, oh

939
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 1: you says what they said, we're not coming, And they said,

940
00:59:57,240 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 1: so you're gonna be late out lately? Are you going

941
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 1: to be before can get us? They said, no, you

942
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 1: don't understand, we're not coming to get you at all.

943
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:09,520
Speaker 1: And and and so there's Oklahoma just stranded there in

944
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 1: the lobby is they're frantically trying to get busses to

945
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 1: load them up and drive them back to Norman, and

946
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:22,720
Speaker 1: which is a long, a long ass trip, right, yeah,

947
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 1: let me think you'd be probably it's probably five hours

948
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 1: and so and so then I go, so I go

949
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:38,440
Speaker 1: to this interview with that rolling in my head. Well, okay,

950
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:40,800
Speaker 1: and then of course that's like a morgue. I mean,

951
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:44,720
Speaker 1: some of these guys, you know, they want to tell

952
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 1: all their friends they've got some hotshot coach that you

953
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 1: don't see, how much better to tech? Well, we just

954
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:57,160
Speaker 1: got to beat so, you know. So then uh and

955
01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 1: so then uh after uh kind of a downer of

956
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 1: an interview of which I can't say that I was

957
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:15,880
Speaker 1: on her percent responsible for, um but uh, other than

958
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:18,040
Speaker 1: if you know, maybe if I called a few better

959
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:23,960
Speaker 1: place or I don't know, but but anyway, Yeah, I mean,

960
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 1: if you're gonna be resulted determinative everything, you're probably not

961
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:31,040
Speaker 1: going to get the results you want. So then, um,

962
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:38,280
Speaker 1: so I go back to the hotel and by then

963
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:43,560
Speaker 1: Oklahoma's limped out of there on these buses that I

964
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:47,320
Speaker 1: guess has had parts flying off and it come from

965
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:54,240
Speaker 1: Amarillo or somewhere some other town and uh, and so

966
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:58,680
Speaker 1: then I get in the lobby. We're supposed to go

967
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:03,880
Speaker 1: out dinner with this group and the son of again

968
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 1: there's two players left behind to Oklahoma sooners left behind

969
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 1: at the hotel who have missed the bus. How did

970
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:20,360
Speaker 1: they miss the bus? While they're trying to gather up

971
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:24,560
Speaker 1: these So it's after the game, they're trying to gather

972
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 1: up these uh these you know, they get the news

973
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:32,240
Speaker 1: that the plane's not coming. Okay, then they're trying to

974
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:36,360
Speaker 1: gather these busses. And rather than and this isn't that

975
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:38,960
Speaker 1: big of a lobby, and rather than have this lobby

976
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:41,200
Speaker 1: buss to get the seams, they told guys they could

977
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:44,200
Speaker 1: go up to their rooms and hang out in their rooms.

978
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 1: The hotel to let them go up to their rooms

979
01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 1: or whatever. And these guys have fallen asleep. And then

980
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:54,920
Speaker 1: in the meantimes they've gotten the buses already. Everybody down

981
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:58,600
Speaker 1: the bus. Off we go, and the buses left without them,

982
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:05,400
Speaker 1: and uh, and so then I see him and well then,

983
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:08,000
Speaker 1: you know, but I'm still in Oklahoma, soitor, you know,

984
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:12,160
Speaker 1: and I'm and you know, the number one thing to

985
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:15,320
Speaker 1: me is to get welfare of these guys and and

986
01:03:16,040 --> 01:03:20,520
Speaker 1: uh make sure they get home. And so I'm trying

987
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 1: to call the bus and let them know the deal

988
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 1: so they can sort something out. And then of course

989
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:32,320
Speaker 1: there's a lot of dead spots between Lubbock and Norman,

990
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 1: you know, going through West Texas with regard to cell

991
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 1: phones and busses and um. So anyways, uh, and finally

992
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 1: get through finally, Uh so then they're of course surprised,

993
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 1: and then um and then there were some boosters staying

994
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 1: behind that they were able to get a ride with

995
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:00,080
Speaker 1: the next day, and so then you know, go to

996
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:04,200
Speaker 1: the dinner and so then you know, that's kind of lackluster.

997
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 1: So then I had another interview. It's almost like the

998
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:13,120
Speaker 1: guys doing the hiring and the guys doing the hiring

999
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:17,880
Speaker 1: and me to well, they decided to do a do over,

1000
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:22,919
Speaker 1: you know. Uh, let's they decided to do a do over,

1001
01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:26,200
Speaker 1: and so then they brought me into Dallas. We had

1002
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 1: another interview, and then they hired me that you know, uh,

1003
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:35,920
Speaker 1: flew me in on the private room met in Dallas. Uh,

1004
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:43,560
Speaker 1: the interview interviewed and flew to Lovock and uh, trying

1005
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 1: to nail that thing down. And then so then I

1006
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:51,640
Speaker 1: went back to Norman, and I went back to Norman

1007
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 1: thought about it, and I had a lot of anxiety

1008
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:56,120
Speaker 1: with that, you know, because we've done a lot of

1009
01:04:56,200 --> 01:05:00,200
Speaker 1: good things, Paul. But I recruited Josh Hyppel me and

1010
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 1: Josh Hippel when we first got there with the two

1011
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:09,360
Speaker 1: most wanted guys in the state of Oklahoma, because you know, um,

1012
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 1: I thought you could throw the ball at the University

1013
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:18,520
Speaker 1: of Oklahoma and Josh Hippel was a quarterback who couldn't run,

1014
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:24,680
Speaker 1: and so um, nobody in Oklahoma was interested in either

1015
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:29,200
Speaker 1: one of those things. And uh, and then of course,

1016
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 1: after three or four games, you know, and became kind

1017
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:35,760
Speaker 1: of exciting. And then with that season, the first season alone,

1018
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 1: Josh broke every season record that existed passing wise, and

1019
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 1: know U history, and then um, and so you know,

1020
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:50,080
Speaker 1: it's tough emotionally for me to leave Oklahoma. And then, uh,

1021
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:53,520
Speaker 1: the plane gets delayed. Looks like you say, you got

1022
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:57,280
Speaker 1: this press conference, going plane gets delayed because it had

1023
01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:02,200
Speaker 1: dropped like eight inches of snow, so they can't get

1024
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:07,520
Speaker 1: the plane out or between you know, me thinking about

1025
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:09,240
Speaker 1: whether I'm going to go to the altar or not

1026
01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:14,680
Speaker 1: that planes life and uh, well, anyway, I finally got

1027
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 1: on the plane and and uh yeah, I went to Lovebock.

1028
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:24,560
Speaker 1: Are you surprised now that Cliff Kingsbury's a head coach?

1029
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 1: You said he was your quarterback when you started at

1030
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:28,600
Speaker 1: Texas Tech. Would you have ever believed that when you

1031
01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:30,440
Speaker 1: met him the first time that he'd be an NFL

1032
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:34,480
Speaker 1: coach one day? I didn't know about NFL, but I

1033
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 1: would have been very surprised if he wasn't a coach,

1034
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:40,480
Speaker 1: because the way he thought and the way he prepared,

1035
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:44,080
Speaker 1: the way he thought, the way he prepared. As Dad

1036
01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:48,040
Speaker 1: was a coach, he was always pretty much coach material

1037
01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:50,560
Speaker 1: from square one. I knew Cliff would was going to

1038
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:55,760
Speaker 1: be a coach, and uh, no question. And um I

1039
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:59,640
Speaker 1: knew he'd be a coach. I guess I figured he'd

1040
01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 1: be a college coach, you know, I NFL. I didn't

1041
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:05,760
Speaker 1: know if he'd be an NFL coach, not because the

1042
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:09,440
Speaker 1: NFL is lofty or per se. I mean some cases

1043
01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 1: now it's you know, it's well, that's all different subject.

1044
01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:20,720
Speaker 1: But suffice it to say, the best football, uh, the

1045
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:24,000
Speaker 1: best coaching being done in the country is not the

1046
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:26,520
Speaker 1: NFL anymore. When you and I were kids, it was,

1047
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:32,520
Speaker 1: but it's not anymore. And um uh, the best coaching

1048
01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:37,440
Speaker 1: is in college, no question. The best coach is probably

1049
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:40,080
Speaker 1: a high school coach somewhere because there's more of them

1050
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:43,920
Speaker 1: and they're very dedicated, smart people. But I think that

1051
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:48,040
Speaker 1: the best coaching is being done in college, and um,

1052
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:52,640
Speaker 1: and then and that hasn't always been the case. And then,

1053
01:07:53,040 --> 01:07:57,600
Speaker 1: um uh, you know, the the NFL is full of

1054
01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:02,280
Speaker 1: all these thirtysomething guys that were quality control guys for

1055
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:07,000
Speaker 1: somebody or other, especially Bill Belichick, and then all of

1056
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:11,440
Speaker 1: a sudden, you know, uh, I think they know how

1057
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 1: to coach, but really haven't coached much, you know. I

1058
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:16,200
Speaker 1: mean that's like saying I lived next door to a

1059
01:08:16,360 --> 01:08:20,120
Speaker 1: doctor soldue surgery, you know what I mean? And um,

1060
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:23,640
Speaker 1: and look you could tell I mean, you know what,

1061
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:27,240
Speaker 1: when when you and I were kids, you never turned

1062
01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:31,040
Speaker 1: on an NFL game and somebody wasn't lined up right, never,

1063
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:34,960
Speaker 1: not ever. And so what you had is you had

1064
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:38,479
Speaker 1: these older coaches that were extremely smart. As they got

1065
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:41,160
Speaker 1: old and lost a certain amount of their energy, became

1066
01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:44,720
Speaker 1: uninspired and maybe the team was uninspired, but they still

1067
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:47,560
Speaker 1: knew how to line up. Well. Now they might be

1068
01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:51,479
Speaker 1: inspired pigs. I mean there're be guys that aren't even

1069
01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:58,639
Speaker 1: lined up and um so anyway, but I I think

1070
01:08:59,280 --> 01:09:02,560
Speaker 1: Clisse and all Edgible offensive coach. And I think I

1071
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:04,360
Speaker 1: think he's gonna have a free for all some of

1072
01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:08,799
Speaker 1: those defenses. So you think he'll do well in the NFL.

1073
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:12,160
Speaker 1: I think he'll do well on offense, you know, I

1074
01:09:12,240 --> 01:09:16,880
Speaker 1: mean as far as you know, I guess in a way,

1075
01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:21,880
Speaker 1: you know, and and you know, I mean he had

1076
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:25,160
Speaker 1: some problems there tech as far as the head coach,

1077
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:28,519
Speaker 1: and I don't you know, I don't I know he's

1078
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:32,600
Speaker 1: got the title head coach, but you know, uh, you know,

1079
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:36,040
Speaker 1: in the NFL sometimes these guys will you know, they

1080
01:09:36,160 --> 01:09:39,720
Speaker 1: hire the special teams coordinator first, and they hire this

1081
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:42,840
Speaker 1: guy second, and they are this guy third, then they

1082
01:09:42,920 --> 01:09:45,840
Speaker 1: hire the head coach fifth, and then they say, oh,

1083
01:09:45,960 --> 01:09:48,120
Speaker 1: you're the head coach. Well you're something, but you're not

1084
01:09:48,240 --> 01:09:51,120
Speaker 1: the head coach. You might have the title of head coach,

1085
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:53,839
Speaker 1: but you know, if all those guys work for somebody

1086
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:55,960
Speaker 1: else rather than you, you're something, but you're not the

1087
01:09:56,000 --> 01:10:01,240
Speaker 1: head coach, you know. Um And then uh, but I

1088
01:10:01,360 --> 01:10:04,760
Speaker 1: do think it's fair to say that he's gonna run

1089
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:09,559
Speaker 1: the offense with a certain amount of impunity. I hope

1090
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:13,360
Speaker 1: and if he does. Um, if he does, they're gonna

1091
01:10:13,400 --> 01:10:16,679
Speaker 1: have an extremely tough time stopping him. Do you feel

1092
01:10:16,720 --> 01:10:19,160
Speaker 1: like when you went to Oklahoma you mentioned Josh Hypel,

1093
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:23,040
Speaker 1: the last two number one picks have been Baker Mayfield

1094
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:27,640
Speaker 1: and Kyler Murray, and they're both big time playmakers. You

1095
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:31,160
Speaker 1: basically changed the culture of a school, right and obviously

1096
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:33,280
Speaker 1: Bob Stoops is a huge part of that. But as

1097
01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:36,080
Speaker 1: you said, he was a defensive guy. The one year

1098
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:39,200
Speaker 1: you spent there really kind of altered the paradigm of

1099
01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:43,599
Speaker 1: everything that Oklahoma does on the offensive side the ball. Well,

1100
01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:46,160
Speaker 1: they've had their most successful years when they run a

1101
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:50,800
Speaker 1: raid concepts and then and then of course, uh now

1102
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:55,360
Speaker 1: at Oklahoma, I lose track of everybody. You know, probably

1103
01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:58,479
Speaker 1: leave somebody out. But Lincoln Riley worked for me for

1104
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:04,360
Speaker 1: like eight years. I mean Lincoln, I've raised Lincoln, So

1105
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:08,760
Speaker 1: Lincoln Riley, UH strength coach Penny Wiley worked for me.

1106
01:11:09,160 --> 01:11:12,880
Speaker 1: Uh I recruited and coach Bill beaton By the on

1107
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:17,320
Speaker 1: line coach, and he worked for me, worked with Kale Gundy.

1108
01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:21,840
Speaker 1: Dennis Simmons gave him his first significant job and his

1109
01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:27,000
Speaker 1: first coaching job, the receiver coach. Hopefully I'm not leaving

1110
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:31,600
Speaker 1: somebody out there. Rufa McNeil. On defense, he worked for

1111
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:34,160
Speaker 1: me and it was my DC at one time. Alex

1112
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:39,000
Speaker 1: cranch I gave him his first defensive coordinator jobs. Roy

1113
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:43,040
Speaker 1: Manny he worked for me. Parker Henry played for me.

1114
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:48,960
Speaker 1: He coaches there. Um and let's see who else on

1115
01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:54,680
Speaker 1: defense there's somebody, oh, Brian Odom worked for me, um

1116
01:11:57,080 --> 01:12:01,880
Speaker 1: and played for me to actually and then um, so yeah,

1117
01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 1: I've had I've had a whole bunch of those guys,

1118
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:07,120
Speaker 1: and I'm probably leaving two out. I just can't think

1119
01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:13,640
Speaker 1: of him. But um the so, yeah, I got a

1120
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:17,800
Speaker 1: lot of connections and tentacles to Oklahoma and then um

1121
01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:24,080
Speaker 1: the other I'll tell you another interesting things just circumstantially, Um,

1122
01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:30,519
Speaker 1: Baker Mayfield. Uh, I was the only BCS school that

1123
01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:35,880
Speaker 1: offered by Baker Mayfield Washington State. Uh, We're the only

1124
01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:39,000
Speaker 1: BCS school that offered Baker. So what did you see

1125
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:41,519
Speaker 1: that Baker that you thought you'd watched him play down

1126
01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:44,000
Speaker 1: in Austin, Uh and and thought this is a guy

1127
01:12:44,040 --> 01:12:48,720
Speaker 1: who can who play at the highest level. Yeah, he was, Uh,

1128
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:53,960
Speaker 1: well he was real accurate. He is real accurate. Um uh,

1129
01:12:54,240 --> 01:12:59,360
Speaker 1: and he's very competitive, real competitive. Uh played at Lake Travis,

1130
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:03,760
Speaker 1: very comp real accurate. I had had a lot of success,

1131
01:13:04,120 --> 01:13:10,360
Speaker 1: had good feet, more quick footed than fast. Um, you know,

1132
01:13:10,400 --> 01:13:15,360
Speaker 1: he could keep the thing alive. And then uh uh

1133
01:13:16,040 --> 01:13:19,680
Speaker 1: you know in the knock on him was it was

1134
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:21,519
Speaker 1: he was short and he had a weak arm. But

1135
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:25,800
Speaker 1: I just figured he would get bigger and stronger, you know, Um,

1136
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:30,800
Speaker 1: you know he was. You know he was because you know,

1137
01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:34,200
Speaker 1: he was light, and I never worry about weight because

1138
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:36,120
Speaker 1: you're gonna put weight on, you put weight on. He

1139
01:13:36,200 --> 01:13:38,800
Speaker 1: probably get a little stronger too, So I didn't have

1140
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:42,519
Speaker 1: a problem with that. And um, so we offered him.

1141
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:45,960
Speaker 1: And then uh, he wanted to go to school closer

1142
01:13:46,040 --> 01:13:48,400
Speaker 1: to home, and so he ends up walking on at

1143
01:13:48,439 --> 01:13:53,240
Speaker 1: Texas Tech and then um, well that didn't end well.

1144
01:13:53,400 --> 01:13:57,200
Speaker 1: So then he uh and then but he had by

1145
01:13:57,280 --> 01:13:59,479
Speaker 1: then he had a few games under his belt and

1146
01:14:01,160 --> 01:14:07,120
Speaker 1: in uh Oklahoma. Um, when he transferred, Oklahoma put him

1147
01:14:07,160 --> 01:14:10,560
Speaker 1: on scholarship, and of course he did pretty well. So

1148
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:13,759
Speaker 1: you mentioned Lincoln Riley worked with you for eight years.

1149
01:14:13,960 --> 01:14:17,599
Speaker 1: How quickly could you tell that Lincoln Riley potentially would

1150
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:19,200
Speaker 1: be a head coach one day? Is that something you

1151
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:21,960
Speaker 1: can tell almost within a six months a year? I

1152
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:23,719
Speaker 1: mean you've had a lot of coaches over the years,

1153
01:14:24,160 --> 01:14:27,840
Speaker 1: or is it something where sometimes you're surprised. I thought

1154
01:14:27,880 --> 01:14:29,680
Speaker 1: he'd be a head coach, and I thought he'd be

1155
01:14:29,720 --> 01:14:33,920
Speaker 1: a good one. I thought Lincoln was a guy. I

1156
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:37,800
Speaker 1: cut him and tried to hire him the same day. Um,

1157
01:14:38,439 --> 01:14:42,439
Speaker 1: we had like nine quarterbacks out there one spring, and

1158
01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:47,000
Speaker 1: Lincoln picked up the offense really quickly, asked good questions,

1159
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:53,000
Speaker 1: was a good communicator. Um. I didn't think Lincoln was

1160
01:14:53,080 --> 01:14:55,800
Speaker 1: nearly as good as a quarterback as Lincoln thought he was.

1161
01:14:56,840 --> 01:15:02,360
Speaker 1: And Um, because Lincoln linco quarterbacks, assured me that he

1162
01:15:02,600 --> 01:15:05,120
Speaker 1: lead us to a championship by just giving him a

1163
01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:10,200
Speaker 1: chance and whatnot. And I figured I'd let him do

1164
01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:14,680
Speaker 1: that in the coaching role. And so then, you know,

1165
01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:18,920
Speaker 1: I explained, you know, but i'd like you to go.

1166
01:15:19,360 --> 01:15:21,840
Speaker 1: You know, I've got too many quarterbacks. I can't keep

1167
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:23,880
Speaker 1: you at quarterback. I'll have to cut it at the

1168
01:15:23,960 --> 01:15:26,960
Speaker 1: answer might as well cut you now, but I'd like it,

1169
01:15:28,479 --> 01:15:31,360
Speaker 1: you know, to coach and work with us a coach,

1170
01:15:31,439 --> 01:15:33,519
Speaker 1: and obviously if you don't hold up your hand work

1171
01:15:34,200 --> 01:15:35,960
Speaker 1: will fire you. But I think you'd be a very

1172
01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:39,160
Speaker 1: good coach because of business and you know, you communicate well,

1173
01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:42,040
Speaker 1: you picked up the offense really well. You're clearly a

1174
01:15:42,120 --> 01:15:45,400
Speaker 1: very smart guy, and you know, and it was the

1175
01:15:45,479 --> 01:15:47,880
Speaker 1: role of being my right hand assistant. In other words,

1176
01:15:49,040 --> 01:15:51,000
Speaker 1: he was going to work with me as far as

1177
01:15:51,120 --> 01:15:56,080
Speaker 1: the anything I needed, as far as film notes, uh,

1178
01:15:57,160 --> 01:16:00,320
Speaker 1: coaching quarterbacks, which that blends into the recipe. He was

1179
01:16:00,479 --> 01:16:04,200
Speaker 1: really the whole offense, which you know, if you want

1180
01:16:04,200 --> 01:16:08,120
Speaker 1: to run what we do or care anything about, um

1181
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:11,439
Speaker 1: what I do, it's about the best position you can

1182
01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:17,160
Speaker 1: get and so um. And then he wasn't happy if

1183
01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:21,960
Speaker 1: I getting caught, and so he uh he says, well,

1184
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:26,600
Speaker 1: I have to talk to some people, and uh, I

1185
01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:30,360
Speaker 1: think he would talk to his parents and had I

1186
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:34,960
Speaker 1: coach and some folks like that. I'm not sure we

1187
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:39,000
Speaker 1: talked to him. Then, so he left and he wasn't pleased.

1188
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:43,680
Speaker 1: He says, well, he could tell he's pissed. Oh well,

1189
01:16:43,680 --> 01:16:46,200
Speaker 1: I appreciate it, but I don't know. I'm gonna have

1190
01:16:46,240 --> 01:16:49,440
Speaker 1: to talk to some people. You know, I might transfriving,

1191
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:52,800
Speaker 1: decide what I'll do. So then he's out of the

1192
01:16:53,040 --> 01:16:55,200
Speaker 1: but I'll let you know something tomorrow. And I figured

1193
01:16:55,240 --> 01:16:59,120
Speaker 1: he wouldn't let me know, But sure enough, late afternoon

1194
01:16:59,200 --> 01:17:01,439
Speaker 1: the next day came in, said he was gonna do it.

1195
01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:04,479
Speaker 1: He's all in it, and he really did a good job.

1196
01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:08,559
Speaker 1: How quickly can you tell you said you offered Baker Mayfield?

1197
01:17:09,040 --> 01:17:11,640
Speaker 1: How quickly can you tell, having coached as long as

1198
01:17:11,720 --> 01:17:14,840
Speaker 1: you have, whether a guy can work in your offense

1199
01:17:14,960 --> 01:17:16,960
Speaker 1: or not. You had Gardner Minshew who came in and

1200
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:20,920
Speaker 1: he was immediately successful. You obviously have an offense that

1201
01:17:21,120 --> 01:17:25,120
Speaker 1: lends itself to I think being called quarterback friendly however

1202
01:17:25,200 --> 01:17:27,920
Speaker 1: you would phrase that. But when you watch tape, how

1203
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:29,680
Speaker 1: long does it take you to be like, yeah, that's

1204
01:17:29,680 --> 01:17:31,880
Speaker 1: a guy who can work in my system, that's a

1205
01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:34,200
Speaker 1: guy who can't. How quickly can you go through and look?

1206
01:17:34,280 --> 01:17:38,840
Speaker 1: Now you know it takes a little bit, but um,

1207
01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:43,439
Speaker 1: it takes a little bit. But the other thing is,

1208
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:52,800
Speaker 1: um uh, the biggest thing, honestly is how hard they're

1209
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:59,080
Speaker 1: gonna work, you know, how tirelessly they'll work. Um, you know,

1210
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:05,760
Speaker 1: if they work just in the sane hard Um, you know,

1211
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:09,920
Speaker 1: that's that's the defining thing. I mean, you have to

1212
01:18:10,040 --> 01:18:12,240
Speaker 1: start out with you know a few things. You know,

1213
01:18:12,320 --> 01:18:14,760
Speaker 1: you've got to be accurate, you've got to make good decisions,

1214
01:18:14,880 --> 01:18:19,559
Speaker 1: and then some combination of good feet, strong arm, and fast,

1215
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:22,799
Speaker 1: which of course nobody in the NFL Hall of Fames

1216
01:18:22,840 --> 01:18:27,560
Speaker 1: all five of those things. So and then you know

1217
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:34,320
Speaker 1: who can elevate the offensive effort and inspire the others

1218
01:18:34,320 --> 01:18:39,439
Speaker 1: around him to play well. And so then um, uh,

1219
01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:48,160
Speaker 1: you know, so I think that, uh, you know, you

1220
01:18:48,280 --> 01:18:51,720
Speaker 1: start with all that, but then you're gonna they're gonna

1221
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:55,320
Speaker 1: have to work crazy hard, and then it will be

1222
01:18:55,439 --> 01:18:59,200
Speaker 1: a competitive situation, and then they have to elevate within

1223
01:18:59,280 --> 01:19:03,280
Speaker 1: that setting. And that's harder to tell, right because until

1224
01:19:03,320 --> 01:19:05,519
Speaker 1: you've coached them. You know, you know if it's a

1225
01:19:05,560 --> 01:19:09,519
Speaker 1: good starting point, but until you've coached them, and sometimes

1226
01:19:09,560 --> 01:19:11,240
Speaker 1: you have to push him into it, and the rest,

1227
01:19:14,120 --> 01:19:17,599
Speaker 1: you're really not quite sure. You know, what you mentioned

1228
01:19:17,640 --> 01:19:20,200
Speaker 1: earlier that you would try anything. You said, you know

1229
01:19:20,240 --> 01:19:23,360
Speaker 1: when you first started coaching, you would try anything for

1230
01:19:23,520 --> 01:19:26,000
Speaker 1: people out there who may not be that familiar with

1231
01:19:26,280 --> 01:19:30,080
Speaker 1: your offensive style of football. What does the air ray

1232
01:19:30,280 --> 01:19:34,439
Speaker 1: do differently that maybe people in old school football would

1233
01:19:34,479 --> 01:19:37,080
Speaker 1: have said, oh, this doesn't work. Oh you can't do this.

1234
01:19:37,880 --> 01:19:40,400
Speaker 1: Most people are not XS and OS expert. But what

1235
01:19:40,600 --> 01:19:43,360
Speaker 1: did you do that sort of change the way that

1236
01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:46,320
Speaker 1: that that that football would be lined up? And honestly,

1237
01:19:46,600 --> 01:19:49,839
Speaker 1: you heard for so long, oh that stuff works in college.

1238
01:19:49,880 --> 01:19:52,360
Speaker 1: It won't work in the pros. But it worked in

1239
01:19:52,439 --> 01:19:54,519
Speaker 1: high school, it works in college, and it sure seems

1240
01:19:54,520 --> 01:19:56,280
Speaker 1: to be working in the pros now too. What have

1241
01:19:56,360 --> 01:20:01,679
Speaker 1: you guys done differently? Well, everything works at any other level,

1242
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:05,200
Speaker 1: works at nearly every other level as well, you know,

1243
01:20:05,360 --> 01:20:09,240
Speaker 1: I mean, and everybody thinks their levels so special that

1244
01:20:09,400 --> 01:20:13,360
Speaker 1: only certain things will work. And obviously that's ridiculous. But

1245
01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:24,120
Speaker 1: and um uh, but I think that, um, well, a

1246
01:20:24,240 --> 01:20:30,400
Speaker 1: couple of things was that. You know, somehow I think

1247
01:20:30,520 --> 01:20:37,479
Speaker 1: are our thoughts on balance? You know a lot of

1248
01:20:37,560 --> 01:20:43,960
Speaker 1: people thought that balance is run pass, which there's nothing

1249
01:20:44,040 --> 01:20:47,960
Speaker 1: balanced about that, because odds are you're leaving at least

1250
01:20:48,240 --> 01:20:52,720
Speaker 1: two skilled players out of the offensive effort. Balance to

1251
01:20:52,840 --> 01:20:58,840
Speaker 1: me is a distribution of offensive contribution or yards by

1252
01:20:58,960 --> 01:21:01,040
Speaker 1: position to the offense. It's of effort. In other words,

1253
01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:07,640
Speaker 1: you have, um, you have five skill players skill positions,

1254
01:21:08,640 --> 01:21:14,080
Speaker 1: and there should be some level of equality as far

1255
01:21:14,160 --> 01:21:17,160
Speaker 1: as what they're contributing to the offensive effort, whether it's

1256
01:21:17,200 --> 01:21:20,680
Speaker 1: on the ground or in the air, the running back

1257
01:21:20,720 --> 01:21:24,479
Speaker 1: should have the most. Though in our running back sometimes

1258
01:21:24,520 --> 01:21:29,280
Speaker 1: will lead the league in total yards and um and

1259
01:21:29,400 --> 01:21:32,320
Speaker 1: we're usually in almost without exception, in the top three.

1260
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:38,920
Speaker 1: And then uh uh so balanting and you know, balance

1261
01:21:38,960 --> 01:21:43,599
Speaker 1: and distribution, I mean balances everybody contributing to the offensive effort,

1262
01:21:43,640 --> 01:21:46,040
Speaker 1: whether it's in the air, on the ground, in all

1263
01:21:46,120 --> 01:21:48,640
Speaker 1: positions contributing, and you try to get the ball to

1264
01:21:48,640 --> 01:21:55,280
Speaker 1: all positions. UM. I think sometimes there's a notion that

1265
01:21:55,400 --> 01:21:59,919
Speaker 1: you have to block everybody. If you have to block everybody,

1266
01:22:00,160 --> 01:22:02,320
Speaker 1: the defense can put you out of business. And the

1267
01:22:02,360 --> 01:22:06,400
Speaker 1: reason they can is because on the offensive side, somebody's

1268
01:22:06,400 --> 01:22:10,000
Speaker 1: got to hold the football. And if that's the case,

1269
01:22:11,000 --> 01:22:13,120
Speaker 1: if somebody's got old in the football, then they can

1270
01:22:13,160 --> 01:22:18,360
Speaker 1: always bring more than you can block with. UM. So

1271
01:22:19,680 --> 01:22:22,880
Speaker 1: you know you have to have uh schemes, thoughts are

1272
01:22:22,960 --> 01:22:26,680
Speaker 1: a package to get rid of the ball before they

1273
01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:32,599
Speaker 1: can get there. Um. You know, some of these guys

1274
01:22:32,640 --> 01:22:36,280
Speaker 1: are constantly trying to run the ball into an eight

1275
01:22:36,360 --> 01:22:40,080
Speaker 1: man front. I can't think of much dumber things to do.

1276
01:22:40,240 --> 01:22:44,120
Speaker 1: They try to run the ball into an eight man front. UM.

1277
01:22:45,120 --> 01:22:48,000
Speaker 1: I mean, that's why it's eight man front because they're

1278
01:22:48,000 --> 01:22:51,560
Speaker 1: saying you can't run the ball. They're old. But you know,

1279
01:22:51,640 --> 01:22:53,640
Speaker 1: I've had a lot of success throwing it into an

1280
01:22:53,680 --> 01:22:57,559
Speaker 1: eight man front. I haven't had any running it into it. UM.

1281
01:22:59,560 --> 01:23:05,439
Speaker 1: You know that type of things. I think that we

1282
01:23:05,600 --> 01:23:09,599
Speaker 1: try to be very versatile and flexible as far as

1283
01:23:10,840 --> 01:23:13,560
Speaker 1: able to adjust that the line of scrimmage, you know,

1284
01:23:13,680 --> 01:23:16,320
Speaker 1: I think, and it comes in different shapes and sizes.

1285
01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:20,560
Speaker 1: Different quarterbacks and players are capable of different things. But

1286
01:23:21,360 --> 01:23:24,200
Speaker 1: the guy that gets the last look as the quarterback,

1287
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:27,840
Speaker 1: and you have to be able to UM. You don't

1288
01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:30,720
Speaker 1: want to be stuck with a bad play. And I

1289
01:23:30,760 --> 01:23:33,160
Speaker 1: don't mean just the general audible thing. You don't want

1290
01:23:33,160 --> 01:23:37,280
Speaker 1: to be stuck with a bad play. UM are limited

1291
01:23:37,439 --> 01:23:41,559
Speaker 1: in what you can do. UM. When the defense changes

1292
01:23:41,720 --> 01:23:43,439
Speaker 1: or does something that they're only going to do every

1293
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:45,439
Speaker 1: so often, you want to be able to attack it,

1294
01:23:46,200 --> 01:23:48,200
Speaker 1: and you want to you want to be able to

1295
01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:52,360
Speaker 1: have the ability to attack something in those situations. Be

1296
01:23:52,520 --> 01:23:54,960
Speaker 1: sure to catch live editions about kick the Coverage with

1297
01:23:55,080 --> 01:23:58,680
Speaker 1: Clay Travis week days at six am Eastern three am Pacific.

1298
01:23:59,240 --> 01:24:02,439
Speaker 1: We're talking to my leach, Washington State football coach. This

1299
01:24:02,560 --> 01:24:05,479
Speaker 1: is the Wins and Losses Podcast. I'm Clay Travis. Um,

1300
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:10,559
Speaker 1: you have a single game, right this is the game

1301
01:24:10,680 --> 01:24:14,400
Speaker 1: to end all games. You can't coach yourself, but you

1302
01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:18,600
Speaker 1: have to pick somebody to coach for you. Who do

1303
01:24:18,680 --> 01:24:20,960
Speaker 1: you think is the best football coach right now? They

1304
01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:23,919
Speaker 1: get two weeks, three weeks, however long you want to prepare.

1305
01:24:24,360 --> 01:24:27,439
Speaker 1: There's lots of discussion about who can beat who what,

1306
01:24:27,640 --> 01:24:29,840
Speaker 1: and they can run their own offensive system or their

1307
01:24:29,840 --> 01:24:32,600
Speaker 1: own defensive system, everything else. Who do you think is

1308
01:24:32,640 --> 01:24:37,559
Speaker 1: the best coach in football right now? Uh? That's stuff

1309
01:24:37,600 --> 01:24:40,280
Speaker 1: to say. Um, you know it's always tough to say

1310
01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:45,600
Speaker 1: because I always try to measure it by uh, you know,

1311
01:24:45,760 --> 01:24:48,439
Speaker 1: the resources they have and the college. It's a big part,

1312
01:24:48,600 --> 01:24:50,640
Speaker 1: right the real I think you told me before in

1313
01:24:50,720 --> 01:24:54,800
Speaker 1: a radio interview that some schools recruit, others give invitations,

1314
01:24:54,960 --> 01:24:58,240
Speaker 1: and obviously there's a big difference between which one you are,

1315
01:24:58,360 --> 01:25:01,559
Speaker 1: so the quality of players to nificantly different. But if

1316
01:25:01,600 --> 01:25:03,120
Speaker 1: you had to coach me put it this way, if

1317
01:25:03,160 --> 01:25:05,840
Speaker 1: you had to coach against somebody, who would make you

1318
01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:08,320
Speaker 1: the most nervous if you were coaching for your life

1319
01:25:08,360 --> 01:25:11,800
Speaker 1: on the other side, preparing against you. It's fun It's

1320
01:25:11,840 --> 01:25:18,560
Speaker 1: funny because these guys, all these these guys, will you

1321
01:25:18,680 --> 01:25:22,240
Speaker 1: know that. It's it's like whoever comes in first, second,

1322
01:25:22,320 --> 01:25:24,600
Speaker 1: or third, all of a sudden, those guys are geniuses,

1323
01:25:24,760 --> 01:25:28,439
Speaker 1: you know. Um, oh god, this is so brilliant. I

1324
01:25:28,520 --> 01:25:30,320
Speaker 1: mean they ran it up the middle. I mean, can

1325
01:25:30,360 --> 01:25:34,080
Speaker 1: you believe they thought of that? You know? And then

1326
01:25:34,400 --> 01:25:38,320
Speaker 1: and then um uh I always e gage it by

1327
01:25:38,840 --> 01:25:42,240
Speaker 1: and you can pick whatever objects you want, like say

1328
01:25:42,880 --> 01:25:46,920
Speaker 1: in a conference, you know, what's the best job or

1329
01:25:47,000 --> 01:25:51,799
Speaker 1: what's the best team or whatever. If the same person

1330
01:25:51,960 --> 01:25:55,920
Speaker 1: was coaching each team the same the same person was

1331
01:25:56,040 --> 01:25:59,519
Speaker 1: coaching each team, I mean, is it a chimpanzee the

1332
01:25:59,720 --> 01:26:05,800
Speaker 1: door knob Vince Lombardi. I mean it doesn't matter. I mean,

1333
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:10,080
Speaker 1: if the same person is coaching all the teams, then um,

1334
01:26:11,200 --> 01:26:12,880
Speaker 1: you know, how do they come out? I mean I

1335
01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:19,799
Speaker 1: think that's the gauge because um, you know, the because

1336
01:26:19,920 --> 01:26:23,240
Speaker 1: you know the resources very and and and they very

1337
01:26:23,320 --> 01:26:26,880
Speaker 1: to a lesser degree in the NFL, but um, and

1338
01:26:27,040 --> 01:26:30,120
Speaker 1: that is one thing appealing about the NFL is the NFL.

1339
01:26:31,000 --> 01:26:33,479
Speaker 1: You know, you can lock into xs and os, and

1340
01:26:33,960 --> 01:26:36,679
Speaker 1: especially if you can control the fifty three men roster,

1341
01:26:36,840 --> 01:26:40,120
Speaker 1: then you can really do some damage. But because you

1342
01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:46,280
Speaker 1: can garner some accountability in there too. But um, ah,

1343
01:26:47,600 --> 01:26:51,360
Speaker 1: I'll tell you this. Uh, you know, you've got all

1344
01:26:51,439 --> 01:26:53,920
Speaker 1: the guys that have worked for me who are all

1345
01:26:54,040 --> 01:26:59,000
Speaker 1: outstanding coach there's no question outstanding coaches. And if you

1346
01:26:59,560 --> 01:27:02,760
Speaker 1: you know, and if you know, if you more from

1347
01:27:02,800 --> 01:27:06,120
Speaker 1: all together, I guess that'd be the worst. But um,

1348
01:27:08,320 --> 01:27:15,919
Speaker 1: you know, going going to the H. And that's obviously

1349
01:27:16,040 --> 01:27:18,439
Speaker 1: a tricky question. It's certainly fun for you guys like

1350
01:27:18,600 --> 01:27:24,599
Speaker 1: you the H to ask and uh, and even more

1351
01:27:24,760 --> 01:27:27,439
Speaker 1: fun if if I'm not careful how I answer it.

1352
01:27:27,560 --> 01:27:34,880
Speaker 1: But let me just say this, Um, defensively, defensively a

1353
01:27:35,000 --> 01:27:38,160
Speaker 1: guy that I have really respected and really respected his

1354
01:27:38,360 --> 01:27:42,000
Speaker 1: career and watched forever because we used to play each

1355
01:27:42,040 --> 01:27:47,080
Speaker 1: other all the time. UH. And so just thinking about UH,

1356
01:27:47,680 --> 01:27:51,280
Speaker 1: a guy that runs defense a lot like we run offense,

1357
01:27:51,400 --> 01:27:55,040
Speaker 1: that views defense like we view offense. That I have

1358
01:27:55,200 --> 01:28:00,519
Speaker 1: a good, incredible respect for UH and don't know him well,

1359
01:28:00,920 --> 01:28:04,840
Speaker 1: don't know him well, I'd like to know him better. Ah,

1360
01:28:06,040 --> 01:28:13,080
Speaker 1: But just is Rocky long Ah. They run defense, they

1361
01:28:13,200 --> 01:28:16,479
Speaker 1: view defense kind of similar to how we view offense.

1362
01:28:16,600 --> 01:28:20,760
Speaker 1: I think like everyone of every positions a weapon. They're

1363
01:28:20,800 --> 01:28:24,360
Speaker 1: willing to turn them loose on you at any point. Uh.

1364
01:28:24,760 --> 01:28:28,519
Speaker 1: You know, they run that stuff that Joelie Dunne made famous,

1365
01:28:28,640 --> 01:28:30,640
Speaker 1: and Rocky was right there on the ground floor of

1366
01:28:30,720 --> 01:28:35,000
Speaker 1: that and uh and some of that, you know, because

1367
01:28:35,040 --> 01:28:38,120
Speaker 1: there's other people that are like you'd see what the

1368
01:28:38,200 --> 01:28:41,120
Speaker 1: air raids or you'd see it with the West Coast offense,

1369
01:28:41,200 --> 01:28:43,160
Speaker 1: you know, all these guys run around seeing they run

1370
01:28:43,200 --> 01:28:45,639
Speaker 1: the West Coast offense. I run the West Coast offense.

1371
01:28:46,040 --> 01:28:48,439
Speaker 1: Well this is the West Coast offense. What do you think, Well,

1372
01:28:48,479 --> 01:28:52,400
Speaker 1: we'ren't West Coast offense? Well Bill Walsh is rolling over

1373
01:28:52,479 --> 01:28:54,719
Speaker 1: and he's grave and some of this stuff called West

1374
01:28:54,760 --> 01:28:59,120
Speaker 1: Coast offense, you know, and um. And then in the

1375
01:28:59,240 --> 01:29:01,240
Speaker 1: same way with air rad there will be these guys

1376
01:29:01,320 --> 01:29:02,920
Speaker 1: say there are rate but they just don't have the

1377
01:29:03,080 --> 01:29:07,560
Speaker 1: nuts to call it, you know. And along with that

1378
01:29:07,720 --> 01:29:10,880
Speaker 1: stuff Rocky runs, there are a lot of guys that

1379
01:29:11,840 --> 01:29:16,200
Speaker 1: came up under Joe Lee done and and and um,

1380
01:29:17,160 --> 01:29:19,040
Speaker 1: and they don't have the nuts to call it. But

1381
01:29:19,120 --> 01:29:24,280
Speaker 1: to me, the ultimate master that stuff, the best that

1382
01:29:24,439 --> 01:29:28,400
Speaker 1: I've seen uh and Joe Lee's of course out of

1383
01:29:28,479 --> 01:29:32,720
Speaker 1: business right now. But um is Rocky Long. I think

1384
01:29:32,840 --> 01:29:36,040
Speaker 1: Rocky Long and what he does defensively, I think it's

1385
01:29:36,120 --> 01:29:39,880
Speaker 1: just outstanding. And he's at San Diego State right now,

1386
01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:44,160
Speaker 1: has gone eleven and three, eleven and three, ten and three,

1387
01:29:44,280 --> 01:29:45,960
Speaker 1: step back a little bit, seven and six in the

1388
01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:47,760
Speaker 1: past year, so he's had a lot of success at

1389
01:29:47,800 --> 01:29:51,719
Speaker 1: San Diego State. UM, question for you now, you obviously

1390
01:29:51,800 --> 01:29:54,360
Speaker 1: were at Texas Tech. Did you root for Texas Tech

1391
01:29:54,439 --> 01:29:57,280
Speaker 1: to win the Final Four when they were playing against Virginia?

1392
01:29:57,320 --> 01:30:00,439
Speaker 1: Did you want them to win the basketball title? Because

1393
01:30:00,439 --> 01:30:02,600
Speaker 1: I know Chris Beard. I've done Chris Beard for a

1394
01:30:02,680 --> 01:30:06,680
Speaker 1: long time. And then the other thing is, you know,

1395
01:30:06,800 --> 01:30:09,920
Speaker 1: there's just some tremendous people at Texas Tech. Like every

1396
01:30:09,960 --> 01:30:13,880
Speaker 1: time So I wrote a book, Swing Your Sword, made

1397
01:30:13,920 --> 01:30:16,559
Speaker 1: it to number five on the New York Times bestseller list.

1398
01:30:17,600 --> 01:30:19,680
Speaker 1: The first time I went back to Lobbing, there were

1399
01:30:19,760 --> 01:30:22,880
Speaker 1: three thousand people there for the book. Sidney, I've never

1400
01:30:23,000 --> 01:30:25,400
Speaker 1: gone back where there's less than a thousand, and it's

1401
01:30:25,439 --> 01:30:27,920
Speaker 1: just outstand I mean, there are so many great people there.

1402
01:30:27,960 --> 01:30:31,400
Speaker 1: They're just great fans. They just have a great spirit

1403
01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:36,679
Speaker 1: for competition, sports and in memories, and I wanted those

1404
01:30:37,160 --> 01:30:41,439
Speaker 1: people to have the very best experience that they possibly could.

1405
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:46,320
Speaker 1: Now in that mix, there's like four very dubious, selfish

1406
01:30:46,400 --> 01:30:50,000
Speaker 1: back room guys, you know, kind of oily men in

1407
01:30:50,080 --> 01:30:53,600
Speaker 1: the back room. They're just sneaky as hell. And you know,

1408
01:30:53,760 --> 01:30:56,599
Speaker 1: led by Ken Hans, who was a former chancellor. There

1409
01:30:56,600 --> 01:31:00,559
Speaker 1: in a very sleezy politician that's uh, fortune leaves at

1410
01:31:00,640 --> 01:31:03,680
Speaker 1: office and you know he's doing as much harm as

1411
01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:06,760
Speaker 1: he can, but not as much as he used to

1412
01:31:06,840 --> 01:31:10,280
Speaker 1: be able to do. And um, and they still haven't

1413
01:31:10,280 --> 01:31:14,960
Speaker 1: paid me Texas Tick Texas Tech still owes me for

1414
01:31:15,120 --> 01:31:17,360
Speaker 1: They haven't paid me for two thousand nine. They won

1415
01:31:17,479 --> 01:31:20,200
Speaker 1: nine games, We won nine games and two thousand nine,

1416
01:31:21,240 --> 01:31:25,080
Speaker 1: and they have not paid me for two thousand nine.

1417
01:31:25,280 --> 01:31:32,320
Speaker 1: And they hide behind sovereign immunity, which is only exercised

1418
01:31:32,320 --> 01:31:39,960
Speaker 1: against contracts in Texas. And uh and how for two

1419
01:31:40,040 --> 01:31:42,760
Speaker 1: thousand nine? I don't like, how much money do you

1420
01:31:42,840 --> 01:31:44,960
Speaker 1: think you're owed by Texas tex Well, they owe me

1421
01:31:45,080 --> 01:31:47,800
Speaker 1: two point six million for two thousand nine alone. And

1422
01:31:47,880 --> 01:31:51,240
Speaker 1: I've always said I'd settled for just for two thousand nine,

1423
01:31:51,400 --> 01:31:53,920
Speaker 1: But I was on the front end of a five

1424
01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:58,040
Speaker 1: year contracts. So overall, if they pay out the old contract,

1425
01:31:58,160 --> 01:32:01,000
Speaker 1: which is basically what they owe, it's in the sixteen

1426
01:32:01,080 --> 01:32:05,040
Speaker 1: millions or maybe sixteen eighteen. But um, I've always said

1427
01:32:05,040 --> 01:32:07,320
Speaker 1: I'd settle if they pay me for two thousand nine,

1428
01:32:07,400 --> 01:32:11,080
Speaker 1: the last season that I worked, um, where they enjoyed

1429
01:32:11,200 --> 01:32:15,160
Speaker 1: nine wins and they haven't one nine since and um

1430
01:32:16,600 --> 01:32:21,439
Speaker 1: so uh but no, I mean, and you've got some

1431
01:32:21,600 --> 01:32:24,040
Speaker 1: people that are that are very sleazy. I mean, you know,

1432
01:32:24,120 --> 01:32:27,120
Speaker 1: in Texas, your words supposed to be your bonds, while

1433
01:32:27,280 --> 01:32:31,000
Speaker 1: Ken Hanson's words not his bond. He's a liar and uh,

1434
01:32:31,320 --> 01:32:33,400
Speaker 1: you know he'll shake your hand, tell you one thing,

1435
01:32:33,520 --> 01:32:36,280
Speaker 1: and then lie and then um and then plus we

1436
01:32:36,360 --> 01:32:41,680
Speaker 1: have a signed contract, fully integrated, and um, well I'm

1437
01:32:41,760 --> 01:32:44,040
Speaker 1: still waiting to get paid for two thousand nine, so

1438
01:32:45,080 --> 01:32:49,560
Speaker 1: um uh. And then of course, you know everything that

1439
01:32:49,680 --> 01:32:51,799
Speaker 1: they fired before it turned out to be a totally

1440
01:32:51,840 --> 01:32:54,800
Speaker 1: sham and totally false, and that they lie and they

1441
01:32:55,280 --> 01:32:58,519
Speaker 1: and they've never fully investigated it. And now somebody's um

1442
01:32:59,600 --> 01:33:01,800
Speaker 1: trying to get the records on all of that, and

1443
01:33:01,920 --> 01:33:04,679
Speaker 1: they refused offer those of because you know they're lying

1444
01:33:04,800 --> 01:33:07,639
Speaker 1: some more and it will probably illustrate a whole bunch

1445
01:33:07,720 --> 01:33:11,439
Speaker 1: of sleezy behavior. So we'll see if those records come out,

1446
01:33:11,479 --> 01:33:13,280
Speaker 1: and I of course if they do, because I don't

1447
01:33:13,280 --> 01:33:17,880
Speaker 1: have anything to be ashamed of. And then, um but

1448
01:33:18,080 --> 01:33:20,800
Speaker 1: in the end, I mean, you've got the most successful

1449
01:33:20,880 --> 01:33:27,240
Speaker 1: era in the history of tech athletics in that period

1450
01:33:27,360 --> 01:33:29,880
Speaker 1: where um, you know, we were ranked every year, went

1451
01:33:29,960 --> 01:33:33,320
Speaker 1: to a bowl every year, and that's very difficult to

1452
01:33:34,080 --> 01:33:40,040
Speaker 1: effectively celebrate if uh, if one I'm not invited back,

1453
01:33:40,120 --> 01:33:44,240
Speaker 1: and two I'm not going back since they owe me

1454
01:33:44,360 --> 01:33:47,839
Speaker 1: for two thousand nine and this notion of me settling

1455
01:33:47,960 --> 01:33:52,479
Speaker 1: for just the last season I worked, I think that's

1456
01:33:52,560 --> 01:33:58,920
Speaker 1: extremely generous. But um so, uh yeah, but there's a

1457
01:33:59,000 --> 01:34:03,040
Speaker 1: lot of uh, you know, hands surrounded himself with these

1458
01:34:03,120 --> 01:34:07,559
Speaker 1: hidden agenda guys, um, you know, kind of these hidden

1459
01:34:07,560 --> 01:34:10,880
Speaker 1: agenda guys that wanted to go brag at the country

1460
01:34:10,920 --> 01:34:15,040
Speaker 1: club how much they controlled athletics and and you know,

1461
01:34:15,200 --> 01:34:19,360
Speaker 1: guys like John Scobell and Jerry Turner stuff like that.

1462
01:34:19,640 --> 01:34:22,720
Speaker 1: And then they decided that they were, um going to

1463
01:34:22,880 --> 01:34:25,080
Speaker 1: cheat me out of my contract, and then they did

1464
01:34:25,160 --> 01:34:27,560
Speaker 1: by hiding bind sovereign immunity. And you can look it

1465
01:34:27,680 --> 01:34:31,280
Speaker 1: up because just describing it, nobody that's ever said the

1466
01:34:31,320 --> 01:34:34,600
Speaker 1: Pledge of Allegiance thinks such a thing as possible. No

1467
01:34:34,760 --> 01:34:41,120
Speaker 1: other state has uh has hidden behind sovereign immunity and

1468
01:34:41,240 --> 01:34:45,280
Speaker 1: refused to pay an integrated contract. Sovereign immunity basically says

1469
01:34:45,400 --> 01:34:53,160
Speaker 1: that the government, the government is the is the king,

1470
01:34:54,160 --> 01:34:56,960
Speaker 1: and you can't sue the king. So therefore, if you

1471
01:34:57,080 --> 01:34:59,559
Speaker 1: sign a contract with the government, you have to fulfill

1472
01:34:59,640 --> 01:35:02,840
Speaker 1: your but they don't have to fulfill theirs, and there's

1473
01:35:03,120 --> 01:35:08,720
Speaker 1: no remedy if if they don't pay you. And it's

1474
01:35:08,760 --> 01:35:13,280
Speaker 1: the most ridiculous bass Ackwards thing you've you've ever heard.

1475
01:35:13,360 --> 01:35:15,960
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's utterly unbelievable. It goes on in

1476
01:35:16,040 --> 01:35:19,320
Speaker 1: Texas all the time. You especially see it happen uh

1477
01:35:19,680 --> 01:35:25,000
Speaker 1: with contractors and construction contracts and um you know, the

1478
01:35:26,400 --> 01:35:29,479
Speaker 1: uh you know, and from what I understand, they have

1479
01:35:29,600 --> 01:35:32,080
Speaker 1: to secure their loans and things with the World Bank

1480
01:35:32,240 --> 01:35:35,960
Speaker 1: because they don't trust them to uh, you know, to

1481
01:35:36,120 --> 01:35:41,160
Speaker 1: fulfill it. And um uh you know, it's unfortunate that

1482
01:35:41,439 --> 01:35:44,479
Speaker 1: the people in Texas deserve better. The citizens of Texas

1483
01:35:44,560 --> 01:35:48,120
Speaker 1: certainly deserve better, and governments are supposed to serve people,

1484
01:35:48,200 --> 01:35:51,760
Speaker 1: not prey on them, and then really sleezy guys like

1485
01:35:51,960 --> 01:35:54,320
Speaker 1: Kent Hands. You can see why it was very appealing

1486
01:35:54,400 --> 01:35:58,519
Speaker 1: to m Um to be in government so they could

1487
01:35:58,560 --> 01:36:02,120
Speaker 1: prey on people. And uh, and so now he's uh,

1488
01:36:03,080 --> 01:36:07,320
Speaker 1: he's slithered off, probably to Austin or something, you know,

1489
01:36:07,479 --> 01:36:11,320
Speaker 1: lurts around like golam on Lord of the Rings, probably

1490
01:36:11,400 --> 01:36:15,560
Speaker 1: looking for something shiny to steal. Is the way that

1491
01:36:15,720 --> 01:36:19,000
Speaker 1: you were covered when you were at Texas Tech make

1492
01:36:19,080 --> 01:36:24,160
Speaker 1: you distrustful of the media in general? No, I thought, Um,

1493
01:36:25,000 --> 01:36:27,160
Speaker 1: you know, I thought, I don't know if you have

1494
01:36:27,479 --> 01:36:31,160
Speaker 1: if you have a specific like you know, if you

1495
01:36:31,200 --> 01:36:34,280
Speaker 1: have a specific one other than the local guys. I mean,

1496
01:36:34,360 --> 01:36:38,800
Speaker 1: the worst reporter now is Dan Walkin. But um, you

1497
01:36:38,880 --> 01:36:41,640
Speaker 1: know it's obviously horrible Big Gulp Dan, because he'll be

1498
01:36:41,720 --> 01:36:45,759
Speaker 1: selling Big Gulp soon when USA Today comes to their senses.

1499
01:36:46,520 --> 01:36:49,639
Speaker 1: And then um, of course Joe Shad is an all

1500
01:36:49,720 --> 01:36:55,720
Speaker 1: time horrible reporter. Um, and everybody pretty much agrees on

1501
01:36:55,880 --> 01:37:00,519
Speaker 1: both counts, you know, reputations that they strived our durn

1502
01:37:01,439 --> 01:37:09,160
Speaker 1: um and then uh, but I was speaking of which Vanderbilt, Tennessee,

1503
01:37:09,200 --> 01:37:13,080
Speaker 1: how are you in, Big Gulp Dan? Doing. You know,

1504
01:37:13,160 --> 01:37:15,400
Speaker 1: I think he blocked me on Twitter. What what? I

1505
01:37:15,479 --> 01:37:18,560
Speaker 1: can't even remember what caused you and Dan walking to

1506
01:37:18,640 --> 01:37:20,800
Speaker 1: get going? What what happened? I can't even remember it

1507
01:37:20,960 --> 01:37:24,280
Speaker 1: was it was it was actually kind of cumulative. Um,

1508
01:37:24,920 --> 01:37:28,720
Speaker 1: it's actually kind of cumulative. Big gulp. Dan thinks that

1509
01:37:28,960 --> 01:37:32,720
Speaker 1: every he thinks that every coach should be fired. And

1510
01:37:32,840 --> 01:37:35,679
Speaker 1: it's just trying to find some little nuance or angle

1511
01:37:36,360 --> 01:37:38,839
Speaker 1: to argue that he thinks every coach should be fired.

1512
01:37:39,640 --> 01:37:44,400
Speaker 1: He thinks every player with any level of success, UM

1513
01:37:45,280 --> 01:37:48,320
Speaker 1: should be cut, fired or put in jail, the one

1514
01:37:48,439 --> 01:37:53,639
Speaker 1: exception being UM, if all of a sudden, uh, they're

1515
01:37:53,760 --> 01:37:59,479
Speaker 1: asking for something, needs some money, get injured or something,

1516
01:38:00,160 --> 01:38:03,200
Speaker 1: then he thinks they should break the bank to give

1517
01:38:03,280 --> 01:38:07,560
Speaker 1: him some ridiculous thing that's uh, you know, not promised

1518
01:38:07,680 --> 01:38:09,920
Speaker 1: or part of the deal or something like that. I mean,

1519
01:38:10,040 --> 01:38:13,000
Speaker 1: just a guy that lives on the extreme, that dies

1520
01:38:13,080 --> 01:38:17,360
Speaker 1: for attention and um, he has lost all credibility on

1521
01:38:17,479 --> 01:38:23,200
Speaker 1: all sides and um, and it's not good for the business.

1522
01:38:23,280 --> 01:38:31,120
Speaker 1: And I think everybody realizes it. But UM, the and

1523
01:38:31,240 --> 01:38:34,960
Speaker 1: I know, I thought the media was pretty decent other

1524
01:38:35,080 --> 01:38:39,080
Speaker 1: than the fact that you know, so you had Craig

1525
01:38:39,240 --> 01:38:44,560
Speaker 1: James and Joe Chad manufacturing this whole thing, which you

1526
01:38:44,640 --> 01:38:49,280
Speaker 1: know didn't hold water very quickly. And then um, you

1527
01:38:49,360 --> 01:38:52,920
Speaker 1: know the pants in the school, I mean just not

1528
01:38:53,160 --> 01:38:55,519
Speaker 1: the school per se, but because he did a lot

1529
01:38:55,560 --> 01:38:59,320
Speaker 1: of them behind their back, Um, you know, proceeded to

1530
01:39:01,240 --> 01:39:03,559
Speaker 1: cheat me out of my contract, hiding go in sovereign

1531
01:39:03,560 --> 01:39:07,360
Speaker 1: immunity because it's never gone to trial. I mean, this

1532
01:39:07,520 --> 01:39:10,000
Speaker 1: has never been heard, this has never been decided, it's

1533
01:39:10,040 --> 01:39:13,519
Speaker 1: never even gone to trial. It's just okay, um or

1534
01:39:13,640 --> 01:39:16,360
Speaker 1: the state we have sovereign immunity. So what if you

1535
01:39:16,439 --> 01:39:19,880
Speaker 1: had a contract, you can't sue us. Uh, that's the

1536
01:39:19,920 --> 01:39:21,960
Speaker 1: way the cookie crumbles and you don't get to go

1537
01:39:22,040 --> 01:39:25,439
Speaker 1: to court. Well, how unjust is that? That's not Yeah,

1538
01:39:25,600 --> 01:39:28,080
Speaker 1: that's not a country. That's not a government for the

1539
01:39:28,160 --> 01:39:32,560
Speaker 1: people by the people. I mean, and that's the repugnant

1540
01:39:32,600 --> 01:39:36,120
Speaker 1: that nearly everything that, in particular a state like Texas

1541
01:39:36,160 --> 01:39:39,280
Speaker 1: stands for. So you couldn't sue them in federal court

1542
01:39:39,360 --> 01:39:41,719
Speaker 1: either for that same reason that that I mean, obviously

1543
01:39:41,800 --> 01:39:45,040
Speaker 1: in state court the sovereign immunity would carry I I

1544
01:39:45,160 --> 01:39:47,920
Speaker 1: haven't researched the case, but you did, you couldn't file

1545
01:39:47,960 --> 01:39:51,760
Speaker 1: it in federal either. Um. It seemed to me we

1546
01:39:51,880 --> 01:39:54,400
Speaker 1: had to select one or the y. I can't remember.

1547
01:39:54,520 --> 01:39:57,000
Speaker 1: I mean I kind of abided by what the attorneys

1548
01:39:57,160 --> 01:40:05,680
Speaker 1: uh said. That's that's a good question, but um, uh, well,

1549
01:40:05,680 --> 01:40:08,040
Speaker 1: I won't put that. That's just the first thing that

1550
01:40:08,120 --> 01:40:09,800
Speaker 1: comes to my mind. I know you're a lawyer too,

1551
01:40:09,880 --> 01:40:11,800
Speaker 1: so and and one of the things that's funny about

1552
01:40:11,840 --> 01:40:14,920
Speaker 1: this is, and I'm sure you have experienced this, people

1553
01:40:15,040 --> 01:40:17,719
Speaker 1: expect that you'll know the answer to every legal question

1554
01:40:17,800 --> 01:40:21,360
Speaker 1: that's ever existed. And really all you learn when you're

1555
01:40:21,400 --> 01:40:24,200
Speaker 1: a lawyer is theoretically how to you have the tools

1556
01:40:24,280 --> 01:40:26,360
Speaker 1: to go find the answer to a question. But I

1557
01:40:26,439 --> 01:40:28,160
Speaker 1: can't tell you the number of times I've been out

1558
01:40:28,160 --> 01:40:30,000
Speaker 1: at a bar and somebody finds out I'm a lawyer,

1559
01:40:30,320 --> 01:40:31,560
Speaker 1: and they come up to me and they give me

1560
01:40:31,640 --> 01:40:34,000
Speaker 1: a really detailed question and expect for me to be like,

1561
01:40:34,080 --> 01:40:37,000
Speaker 1: oh yeah or no, as if as if it's easy.

1562
01:40:37,479 --> 01:40:39,479
Speaker 1: You know, I remember when I graduated from law school,

1563
01:40:39,479 --> 01:40:41,000
Speaker 1: the professor got up and he said, you know, when

1564
01:40:41,040 --> 01:40:44,000
Speaker 1: you've started law school, you could somebody asked you a

1565
01:40:44,080 --> 01:40:46,720
Speaker 1: legal question. You could gaze at them with great solemnity

1566
01:40:47,000 --> 01:40:50,720
Speaker 1: and say I have no earthly idea, and now after

1567
01:40:50,840 --> 01:40:52,200
Speaker 1: you spent you know, for me, it was over a

1568
01:40:52,320 --> 01:40:54,840
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars of law school debt that I've now

1569
01:40:54,920 --> 01:40:57,320
Speaker 1: paid off. But you know, you you they say, you

1570
01:40:57,360 --> 01:41:00,160
Speaker 1: know after three years? Uh, you know you can uh,

1571
01:41:00,720 --> 01:41:02,519
Speaker 1: you can gaze at them and say uh. And when

1572
01:41:02,560 --> 01:41:05,200
Speaker 1: they ask you the same question, Well, that depends, and

1573
01:41:05,280 --> 01:41:07,439
Speaker 1: it's kind of a funny joke, but it's also true.

1574
01:41:07,520 --> 01:41:09,920
Speaker 1: You spend all this time to learn out how to

1575
01:41:10,000 --> 01:41:12,800
Speaker 1: learn how complex things are, and so the idea that

1576
01:41:12,880 --> 01:41:15,400
Speaker 1: you have a lot of walking around knowledge that applies

1577
01:41:15,479 --> 01:41:20,679
Speaker 1: for every single situation is oftentimes not very true at all. Well,

1578
01:41:20,760 --> 01:41:23,639
Speaker 1: there's no question about it. I mean they basically lost

1579
01:41:23,640 --> 01:41:26,320
Speaker 1: school is a is four years of how to write

1580
01:41:26,360 --> 01:41:30,760
Speaker 1: and where to dig? You know, yeah, and uh and

1581
01:41:31,240 --> 01:41:33,680
Speaker 1: you know, parading through the Now at least it's on

1582
01:41:33,760 --> 01:41:36,080
Speaker 1: a computer. I mean, we used to have to stand

1583
01:41:36,160 --> 01:41:39,200
Speaker 1: in line for the I forget what it was called

1584
01:41:39,240 --> 01:41:41,880
Speaker 1: a head a name, and um, you used to have

1585
01:41:42,000 --> 01:41:44,360
Speaker 1: to pull actual books off the shelf and go track

1586
01:41:44,439 --> 01:41:47,640
Speaker 1: down everything. Oh yeah, heck yeah you did. And then

1587
01:41:47,720 --> 01:41:51,160
Speaker 1: if you had an assignment and those books were critical

1588
01:41:51,240 --> 01:41:55,559
Speaker 1: to the assignment some of your competition, which strategically ensure

1589
01:41:55,640 --> 01:41:58,160
Speaker 1: that those books weren't on that show. Yeah, I've heard

1590
01:41:58,160 --> 01:42:01,120
Speaker 1: about that too. That's awful. I've heard about that. So

1591
01:42:01,240 --> 01:42:02,800
Speaker 1: then i'd have to then i'd have to go to

1592
01:42:02,960 --> 01:42:05,400
Speaker 1: u c l A Library where they didn't have the

1593
01:42:05,479 --> 01:42:09,320
Speaker 1: same assignment. I was actually almost as close to u

1594
01:42:09,400 --> 01:42:14,680
Speaker 1: c l A as I was uh Pepperdine. Yeah, so

1595
01:42:15,040 --> 01:42:18,479
Speaker 1: so yeah, I had a little place pull up my car,

1596
01:42:18,680 --> 01:42:20,880
Speaker 1: had a secret place in the neighborhood and pull up

1597
01:42:20,920 --> 01:42:24,240
Speaker 1: my car. Then I then i'd go through the hedges.

1598
01:42:24,840 --> 01:42:28,160
Speaker 1: They had this hedge. Get through the hedge, just find

1599
01:42:28,200 --> 01:42:34,280
Speaker 1: my way through the hedges and uh uh u c

1600
01:42:34,479 --> 01:42:38,519
Speaker 1: l A Library where U c l A Law Library

1601
01:42:38,600 --> 01:42:43,639
Speaker 1: to use it too. Oh well, part of it is because,

1602
01:42:44,240 --> 01:42:47,479
Speaker 1: you know, because of my lack of self discipline. You know,

1603
01:42:47,560 --> 01:42:50,200
Speaker 1: if you're at your law library, everybody's gonna talk to you.

1604
01:42:50,360 --> 01:42:54,000
Speaker 1: Are you got your circle and just say anybody's got anxiety,

1605
01:42:54,080 --> 01:42:57,280
Speaker 1: is gonna go talk to somebody else. And U c

1606
01:42:57,439 --> 01:42:59,599
Speaker 1: l A. I didn't know anybody, so I could study

1607
01:42:59,680 --> 01:43:03,800
Speaker 1: more for reductively. I also used to go sometimes I'd

1608
01:43:03,840 --> 01:43:11,479
Speaker 1: go study at the Malibu Public library, go down there,

1609
01:43:11,479 --> 01:43:13,479
Speaker 1: and I'd sit across from a homeless guy, and he

1610
01:43:13,560 --> 01:43:16,200
Speaker 1: was kind of a homeless guy, and I think he

1611
01:43:16,280 --> 01:43:20,439
Speaker 1: had one of those bipolar mood things because something and

1612
01:43:20,520 --> 01:43:24,120
Speaker 1: he's going there. He'd sort of scrub off in the bathroom.

1613
01:43:25,360 --> 01:43:28,040
Speaker 1: In the bathroom there, he'd scrub off and brush his

1614
01:43:28,200 --> 01:43:33,400
Speaker 1: teeth and kind of you know, cal shower himself. And

1615
01:43:33,560 --> 01:43:37,680
Speaker 1: then he'd sit in that library all day and uh,

1616
01:43:39,400 --> 01:43:44,720
Speaker 1: he'd have a kind of an array of of the

1617
01:43:44,880 --> 01:43:47,679
Speaker 1: go boxes, which you know he'd gotten from a variety

1618
01:43:47,720 --> 01:43:50,479
Speaker 1: of places who knows where, pulled out of who knows where,

1619
01:43:50,520 --> 01:43:53,400
Speaker 1: and then sit and read books all day and a

1620
01:43:53,479 --> 01:43:56,400
Speaker 1: lot of times you'd get some history thing, and if

1621
01:43:56,439 --> 01:44:00,240
Speaker 1: he wanted a quick answer, he'd read kind of those uh,

1622
01:44:00,920 --> 01:44:03,920
Speaker 1: you're not really children's books, kind of junior high books,

1623
01:44:04,000 --> 01:44:06,920
Speaker 1: you know, where he could read really fast, saying about

1624
01:44:07,040 --> 01:44:11,280
Speaker 1: Davy Crockett or something, you know, and then um and

1625
01:44:11,360 --> 01:44:15,400
Speaker 1: then sometimes you know, uh, you know, he'd want to talk,

1626
01:44:15,560 --> 01:44:18,160
Speaker 1: be quite engaging, and other times you know, he'd just

1627
01:44:18,280 --> 01:44:21,280
Speaker 1: be a statue it just pretend he was invisible or something.

1628
01:44:21,360 --> 01:44:26,439
Speaker 1: Wouldn't say nothing. But anyway, Um, he was good company

1629
01:44:26,520 --> 01:44:31,280
Speaker 1: through several finals I studied for. Uh, you are at

1630
01:44:31,360 --> 01:44:34,360
Speaker 1: Washington State now, and I'm sure you feel like that

1631
01:44:34,680 --> 01:44:39,000
Speaker 1: after all the torturous process of ending up there, that

1632
01:44:39,120 --> 01:44:41,920
Speaker 1: it it is a good, good place to have to

1633
01:44:41,960 --> 01:44:45,640
Speaker 1: have ended up. Was it more gratifying to have the

1634
01:44:45,760 --> 01:44:48,559
Speaker 1: success at Washington State that you've had the past several

1635
01:44:48,720 --> 01:44:52,960
Speaker 1: years after what you went through a Texas Tech? Yeah,

1636
01:44:54,000 --> 01:44:56,639
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, because you just worked as

1637
01:44:56,680 --> 01:45:02,280
Speaker 1: hard as you possibly can and then, um, you just

1638
01:45:02,439 --> 01:45:07,960
Speaker 1: work as hard as you can and then um, and

1639
01:45:08,080 --> 01:45:15,120
Speaker 1: then I don't know, it's it's gratifying, it's gratifying, but um, um,

1640
01:45:17,120 --> 01:45:19,880
Speaker 1: it's gratifying. But that that the thing is, it's not

1641
01:45:20,040 --> 01:45:23,320
Speaker 1: gratifying for as long as you think, because you know

1642
01:45:23,439 --> 01:45:26,040
Speaker 1: you're moving on to the next target right away. You're

1643
01:45:26,080 --> 01:45:30,120
Speaker 1: moving on to There's the next recruit, There's the next

1644
01:45:32,400 --> 01:45:37,400
Speaker 1: the the next recruit, the next uh uh team, the

1645
01:45:37,520 --> 01:45:41,360
Speaker 1: next opponent, the next uh the guy you're trying to

1646
01:45:41,439 --> 01:45:43,920
Speaker 1: search for to be a starter for a summer. Other

1647
01:45:44,120 --> 01:45:47,800
Speaker 1: you're you know, you're always onto something else, and so

1648
01:45:48,360 --> 01:45:53,720
Speaker 1: uh yeah, this uh other than a quick kind of

1649
01:45:53,800 --> 01:45:58,080
Speaker 1: twelve hours after a big win with maybe the staff

1650
01:45:58,120 --> 01:46:01,240
Speaker 1: of your family. I mean now you're right back in it.

1651
01:46:01,479 --> 01:46:05,160
Speaker 1: You know, you finished in the top ten. Uh, and

1652
01:46:05,240 --> 01:46:08,679
Speaker 1: you've been coaching for a long time now, so there's

1653
01:46:08,720 --> 01:46:10,840
Speaker 1: almost no I'm just kind of curious on this in general.

1654
01:46:10,880 --> 01:46:14,440
Speaker 1: I mean, so there's almost no uh, sense of satisfaction.

1655
01:46:14,800 --> 01:46:16,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, I don't know, I mean, I

1656
01:46:17,000 --> 01:46:21,680
Speaker 1: don't know what drives you. But well, you know, the

1657
01:46:21,840 --> 01:46:25,720
Speaker 1: thing is is, I mean just the sense of satisfaction

1658
01:46:25,920 --> 01:46:29,959
Speaker 1: comes with practice improvements. You go out there to practice,

1659
01:46:30,040 --> 01:46:34,080
Speaker 1: you see guys get better, like even now, Um, you know,

1660
01:46:34,200 --> 01:46:37,519
Speaker 1: we had okay. So so you go during the season

1661
01:46:37,840 --> 01:46:41,920
Speaker 1: and some young player, he's okay. Then you go to

1662
01:46:42,000 --> 01:46:44,840
Speaker 1: the practices before the poll the young player he hadn't

1663
01:46:44,840 --> 01:46:47,599
Speaker 1: been playing much or doing much. Then you're saying, damn

1664
01:46:47,680 --> 01:46:50,400
Speaker 1: this guys could be pretty good. And that's only a

1665
01:46:50,479 --> 01:46:53,200
Speaker 1: couple of months later, you know. And so then a

1666
01:46:53,280 --> 01:46:55,800
Speaker 1: few months after that, you have spring football and you're

1667
01:46:55,800 --> 01:46:58,960
Speaker 1: seeing if you know, yeah, and then then the guy

1668
01:46:59,080 --> 01:47:02,240
Speaker 1: takes another jump. Now they don't all do that, but

1669
01:47:02,479 --> 01:47:06,880
Speaker 1: you know, that's pretty gratifying, that's exciting, and then um,

1670
01:47:07,240 --> 01:47:10,320
Speaker 1: and you definitely get consumed by it, and there is

1671
01:47:10,360 --> 01:47:13,400
Speaker 1: a sensory overload to it. But you know, the other

1672
01:47:13,520 --> 01:47:15,720
Speaker 1: thing is you is you work and you strive and

1673
01:47:15,840 --> 01:47:19,640
Speaker 1: you you know, you watch the film, you have the practices,

1674
01:47:19,960 --> 01:47:26,160
Speaker 1: uh um, you know, and develop your confidence around what

1675
01:47:26,280 --> 01:47:30,720
Speaker 1: you're doing and the the players you're working with. Um.

1676
01:47:31,880 --> 01:47:34,240
Speaker 1: And I'm not even saying it's rational. I've always said

1677
01:47:34,280 --> 01:47:37,320
Speaker 1: it's irrational. You know. The beginning of the week, I

1678
01:47:37,360 --> 01:47:40,000
Speaker 1: don't know if we can beat Pullman High School on Sunday.

1679
01:47:40,920 --> 01:47:43,880
Speaker 1: Um on on Friday, I'm pretty convinced we can beat

1680
01:47:43,920 --> 01:47:46,120
Speaker 1: an all star team with the Green Bay Packers and

1681
01:47:46,200 --> 01:47:51,160
Speaker 1: the New England Patriots. Okay, but um, and we're actually

1682
01:47:51,280 --> 01:47:54,200
Speaker 1: somewhere in between, I imagine. But the thing is is

1683
01:47:54,560 --> 01:48:02,560
Speaker 1: uh um you know, uh, as you're working, you and

1684
01:48:02,680 --> 01:48:07,800
Speaker 1: your team into that UM here, you're definitely happy if

1685
01:48:07,800 --> 01:48:12,840
Speaker 1: you win, no question, But um you're not necessarily surprised

1686
01:48:12,920 --> 01:48:17,519
Speaker 1: by it, you know. And uh but the thing is

1687
01:48:17,680 --> 01:48:20,840
Speaker 1: is together as a team. The thing that really brings

1688
01:48:20,920 --> 01:48:23,599
Speaker 1: you together and kind of elevates the excitement and kind

1689
01:48:23,640 --> 01:48:33,120
Speaker 1: of makes it a sensory overload is um yum is

1690
01:48:34,400 --> 01:48:37,200
Speaker 1: you know, just as everybody being passionate about doing the

1691
01:48:37,280 --> 01:48:40,320
Speaker 1: same thing at the same time, and you really feel

1692
01:48:40,360 --> 01:48:43,759
Speaker 1: like you're a part of something important because it's important

1693
01:48:43,800 --> 01:48:46,559
Speaker 1: to you know, a room full of people, and it's

1694
01:48:46,600 --> 01:48:49,919
Speaker 1: important to a lot of people, and it's most important

1695
01:48:49,960 --> 01:48:53,000
Speaker 1: to you, not so much on the outside because it

1696
01:48:53,080 --> 01:48:55,280
Speaker 1: may be important to millions of people, and it may

1697
01:48:55,320 --> 01:49:01,280
Speaker 1: be important, um, tens of thousands of fans, um, you know,

1698
01:49:01,400 --> 01:49:05,120
Speaker 1: in the stadium or whatever. But you know, you're that

1699
01:49:05,200 --> 01:49:09,960
Speaker 1: you're seeing every day, striving every day. UM. You know

1700
01:49:10,479 --> 01:49:12,880
Speaker 1: the fact that it's important to them and you're a

1701
01:49:12,960 --> 01:49:18,559
Speaker 1: part of that um is something that uh really makes

1702
01:49:18,640 --> 01:49:22,840
Speaker 1: it feel important, really makes you feel part of something

1703
01:49:22,920 --> 01:49:25,439
Speaker 1: important because you know you'll remember it the rest of

1704
01:49:25,479 --> 01:49:28,519
Speaker 1: your life and you know that they will too. And

1705
01:49:28,640 --> 01:49:32,479
Speaker 1: I think that that kind of elevates it. You know,

1706
01:49:32,560 --> 01:49:35,240
Speaker 1: when people quit playing, that's the thing miss most is

1707
01:49:35,320 --> 01:49:39,800
Speaker 1: the locker room and then the other thing. And this

1708
01:49:40,040 --> 01:49:43,519
Speaker 1: isn't always the case. Some people have more fulfilling NFL careers,

1709
01:49:43,600 --> 01:49:47,840
Speaker 1: but with rare, rare, rare exception, people have more fulfilling

1710
01:49:47,960 --> 01:49:52,200
Speaker 1: college careers. People uh, you know, they're glad they played

1711
01:49:52,200 --> 01:49:54,920
Speaker 1: in the NFL. They liked the money, but had more

1712
01:49:55,000 --> 01:49:58,519
Speaker 1: fulfilling college careers and you know, their best memories are

1713
01:49:58,560 --> 01:50:01,519
Speaker 1: from college it's you know, some of the greatest NFL

1714
01:50:01,640 --> 01:50:03,960
Speaker 1: guys ever. You you'll hear them talk about college all

1715
01:50:04,000 --> 01:50:06,120
Speaker 1: the time. And I've talked about the NFL so much

1716
01:50:06,920 --> 01:50:10,680
Speaker 1: and UM, And I think that that has to do

1717
01:50:10,840 --> 01:50:14,240
Speaker 1: with one the age they are. They go in there

1718
01:50:15,360 --> 01:50:21,760
Speaker 1: from a confused high school kid. UM that you know,

1719
01:50:22,000 --> 01:50:30,040
Speaker 1: just develops into a develops into a college you know,

1720
01:50:30,960 --> 01:50:34,040
Speaker 1: a college kid. You know, after four years, I mean

1721
01:50:34,120 --> 01:50:36,599
Speaker 1: that there's huge change. You know, it's a big dynamic

1722
01:50:36,680 --> 01:50:39,320
Speaker 1: part of somebody's life. So I think I think that

1723
01:50:39,479 --> 01:50:42,679
Speaker 1: elevates it. And I also think that locker room where

1724
01:50:42,680 --> 01:50:45,840
Speaker 1: everybody's living together, doing the same things together all the

1725
01:50:45,960 --> 01:50:50,640
Speaker 1: time and they're gonna be their odds are uh for

1726
01:50:50,840 --> 01:50:55,439
Speaker 1: three to five years, UM, elevates it over where it's

1727
01:50:55,800 --> 01:50:58,880
Speaker 1: got a little bit more of a mercenary quality, you know,

1728
01:50:59,000 --> 01:51:03,559
Speaker 1: where somebody's cut, somebody's at and it's all business type

1729
01:51:03,600 --> 01:51:06,640
Speaker 1: of thing. Before you're done coaching, would you like an

1730
01:51:06,640 --> 01:51:09,479
Speaker 1: opportunity to coach in the NFL, Like if Cliff Kingsbury

1731
01:51:09,640 --> 01:51:12,519
Speaker 1: comes out and he dominates this year and he and

1732
01:51:12,640 --> 01:51:15,439
Speaker 1: Kyler Murray have a lot of success, somebody in the

1733
01:51:15,600 --> 01:51:19,240
Speaker 1: NFL might circle around like they have done with U

1734
01:51:19,560 --> 01:51:24,320
Speaker 1: with Sean uh Shan out at the l A. Rams,

1735
01:51:24,960 --> 01:51:27,840
Speaker 1: and everybody now wants their own version of him, right

1736
01:51:28,000 --> 01:51:31,000
Speaker 1: like everybody wants to do what the Rams are doing now.

1737
01:51:31,560 --> 01:51:34,320
Speaker 1: And everybody might decide they want a version of Kingsbury. Well,

1738
01:51:34,320 --> 01:51:36,720
Speaker 1: you coached him at quarterback. You've been doing this for

1739
01:51:36,800 --> 01:51:39,320
Speaker 1: a long time. Do you think that you will ever

1740
01:51:39,479 --> 01:51:41,479
Speaker 1: get that call? Do you think that you'll ever get

1741
01:51:41,520 --> 01:51:45,000
Speaker 1: that opportunity? Would you want it if it came? Uh?

1742
01:51:45,439 --> 01:51:50,639
Speaker 1: You know, I would definitely listen. I would definitely listen. Um,

1743
01:51:51,439 --> 01:51:55,720
Speaker 1: I see advantage just to bulls. Um, I see advantage

1744
01:51:55,760 --> 01:52:00,479
Speaker 1: just to balls. Uh. One advantage, you know, because college

1745
01:52:00,600 --> 01:52:03,719
Speaker 1: and I'm in Newon college a long time, and colleges

1746
01:52:04,320 --> 01:52:07,880
Speaker 1: is extremely fulfilling in courts in college, you could always

1747
01:52:07,920 --> 01:52:12,880
Speaker 1: go back, but that um uh. And you know, one

1748
01:52:12,920 --> 01:52:15,559
Speaker 1: thing I guess that's somewhat appealing about the NFL would

1749
01:52:15,600 --> 01:52:18,240
Speaker 1: be the fact that the best team and the worst

1750
01:52:18,280 --> 01:52:20,800
Speaker 1: team really aren't that far off. I mean, it's more

1751
01:52:20,840 --> 01:52:24,280
Speaker 1: of a coaching laboratory than it would be in college. Yeah,

1752
01:52:24,400 --> 01:52:27,559
Speaker 1: where you go in college and you can pick whatever

1753
01:52:27,680 --> 01:52:31,920
Speaker 1: conference you want, whoever's whatever team's got the most resources

1754
01:52:32,040 --> 01:52:35,160
Speaker 1: compared to the one that's got the least in that conference.

1755
01:52:35,760 --> 01:52:40,000
Speaker 1: That's like an exponentially bigger margin than exists anywhere in

1756
01:52:40,040 --> 01:52:43,200
Speaker 1: the NFL. And I mean anywhere. I mean, take your

1757
01:52:43,240 --> 01:52:46,880
Speaker 1: pick whoever your conferences And I'm not gonna name teams,

1758
01:52:47,000 --> 01:52:50,000
Speaker 1: but you know who's the best in the SEC? All right,

1759
01:52:50,080 --> 01:52:53,679
Speaker 1: who's the worst? Okay? The difference between them is huge.

1760
01:52:53,800 --> 01:52:56,479
Speaker 1: Who's the best of the pack? Well, who's the worst?

1761
01:52:56,680 --> 01:53:01,240
Speaker 1: Resources was? I mean just the difference in is huge. Okay.

1762
01:53:01,320 --> 01:53:05,000
Speaker 1: In the NFL it's a narrow margin. So so where

1763
01:53:05,080 --> 01:53:08,720
Speaker 1: you're you're not having to play over your head, that's

1764
01:53:08,800 --> 01:53:15,400
Speaker 1: got an appeal. Okay. Then, um, the other uh is

1765
01:53:15,479 --> 01:53:21,200
Speaker 1: where it's just football and you know you're not worried

1766
01:53:21,200 --> 01:53:24,160
Speaker 1: about the other stuff so much. That has an appeal

1767
01:53:24,360 --> 01:53:29,880
Speaker 1: to Okay, But then a lot of places in the NFL,

1768
01:53:30,000 --> 01:53:32,120
Speaker 1: there's a lot of cooks in the kitchen. You know,

1769
01:53:32,240 --> 01:53:35,759
Speaker 1: there's the owner of the GM and and they head coach.

1770
01:53:35,840 --> 01:53:40,080
Speaker 1: And you need a situation where everybody thinks, acts, you know,

1771
01:53:40,240 --> 01:53:44,280
Speaker 1: behaves as one and then the other thing as a coach. Um,

1772
01:53:44,880 --> 01:53:46,599
Speaker 1: you know, you want to have control of the fifty

1773
01:53:46,680 --> 01:53:49,920
Speaker 1: three man roster, so long you can create accountability on

1774
01:53:50,000 --> 01:53:52,479
Speaker 1: your team and too, so you can play the best

1775
01:53:52,560 --> 01:53:55,640
Speaker 1: players you know. And and I think if you have that,

1776
01:53:55,760 --> 01:54:01,559
Speaker 1: you always have a chance. And then UM, so yeah

1777
01:54:01,600 --> 01:54:03,840
Speaker 1: I would, Yeah, I would. I would look at it,

1778
01:54:03,920 --> 01:54:07,479
Speaker 1: but I've never pursued it. You know, I've never pursued it.

1779
01:54:07,520 --> 01:54:09,640
Speaker 1: I've always figured they knew where I'm at. You know,

1780
01:54:10,120 --> 01:54:14,160
Speaker 1: have you ever had an NFL head coaching interview, not

1781
01:54:14,240 --> 01:54:19,280
Speaker 1: a head coach. I early in my career, receiver coach

1782
01:54:19,400 --> 01:54:22,720
Speaker 1: I had. I think they interviewed me to be receiver coach. Um,

1783
01:54:23,720 --> 01:54:27,439
Speaker 1: this is uh, it's right when I got I've just

1784
01:54:27,600 --> 01:54:31,839
Speaker 1: gotten hired by Oklahoma and we've just been through spring

1785
01:54:32,280 --> 01:54:36,760
Speaker 1: and uh, and yeah I would have been exciting and stuff.

1786
01:54:36,800 --> 01:54:40,160
Speaker 1: But one I would have been leaving Oklahoma in a

1787
01:54:40,280 --> 01:54:45,560
Speaker 1: bad way. And then the other is, um, you know, uh,

1788
01:54:46,480 --> 01:54:50,240
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be calling plays and so you know, calling

1789
01:54:50,360 --> 01:54:53,080
Speaker 1: plays I wanted to. I wanted to call place, you know,

1790
01:54:53,760 --> 01:54:56,040
Speaker 1: so in the NFL at that time, I would not

1791
01:54:56,200 --> 01:55:04,080
Speaker 1: have been calling plays. So um, but anyways, uh I didn't.

1792
01:55:04,160 --> 01:55:07,520
Speaker 1: I haven't. I haven't regretted it. I haven't regretted it.

1793
01:55:07,760 --> 01:55:11,880
Speaker 1: But um, uh, I don't know you know, the right

1794
01:55:12,000 --> 01:55:15,680
Speaker 1: situation and all that. Uh, I'd look at it. Um,

1795
01:55:17,840 --> 01:55:21,600
Speaker 1: I'd look at it. But uh, also I'm really happy

1796
01:55:21,680 --> 01:55:24,320
Speaker 1: with where I'm at. So, you know, you mentioned that

1797
01:55:24,600 --> 01:55:26,839
Speaker 1: there's a big difference between the top of a conference

1798
01:55:26,880 --> 01:55:28,800
Speaker 1: in the bottom of a conference. I don't think it's

1799
01:55:28,880 --> 01:55:31,440
Speaker 1: any you know, great insult to say that Texas Tech

1800
01:55:31,600 --> 01:55:33,760
Speaker 1: is not at the top of the Big twelve historically

1801
01:55:34,280 --> 01:55:36,400
Speaker 1: and Washington State is not at the top of the

1802
01:55:36,480 --> 01:55:39,680
Speaker 1: Pack twelve historically. Do you ever wonder what it would

1803
01:55:39,680 --> 01:55:41,640
Speaker 1: be like to get a job as a head coach

1804
01:55:41,720 --> 01:55:44,600
Speaker 1: at one of those programs wherever it is, let's say

1805
01:55:44,720 --> 01:55:47,080
Speaker 1: that you're in the uh you know that you're in

1806
01:55:47,160 --> 01:55:49,200
Speaker 1: the A C C. I think people would say Clemson

1807
01:55:49,280 --> 01:55:51,640
Speaker 1: and Florida State or at the top. We ever wonder

1808
01:55:51,680 --> 01:55:53,160
Speaker 1: what it would be like to get one of those

1809
01:55:53,240 --> 01:55:55,400
Speaker 1: jobs where you're at the very top of the conference

1810
01:55:55,440 --> 01:55:58,760
Speaker 1: at the start. Yeah, I mean that'd be interesting, like

1811
01:55:58,960 --> 01:56:02,200
Speaker 1: you know, like like okay, so like let's let's take uh,

1812
01:56:03,040 --> 01:56:10,320
Speaker 1: for example, Bill Snyder's career at Kansas State as remarkable. Well, okay,

1813
01:56:10,400 --> 01:56:14,560
Speaker 1: so you've got Kansas State and you can argue whether

1814
01:56:14,880 --> 01:56:18,800
Speaker 1: you know, resource wise, um, you know, they're ahead of

1815
01:56:18,920 --> 01:56:24,520
Speaker 1: various teams, but um, you know they would they would

1816
01:56:24,640 --> 01:56:28,440
Speaker 1: end up in the top several and the Big twelve

1817
01:56:29,240 --> 01:56:33,760
Speaker 1: all the time. And and resource wise, they're definitely towards

1818
01:56:33,800 --> 01:56:36,680
Speaker 1: about I'm not talking about what they achieved for what

1819
01:56:36,840 --> 01:56:40,000
Speaker 1: they did, what they achieved or what they did. I'm

1820
01:56:40,080 --> 01:56:44,120
Speaker 1: talking about there's a big in Texas and Oklahoma and

1821
01:56:44,240 --> 01:56:47,839
Speaker 1: Kansas State in terms of resources. So if Bill Snyder

1822
01:56:48,000 --> 01:56:50,600
Speaker 1: coached all of those teams, and there was there was

1823
01:56:50,680 --> 01:56:53,200
Speaker 1: a there was a there was a funny there was

1824
01:56:53,280 --> 01:56:58,560
Speaker 1: a funny triangle there in the Big twelve for a while. Okay, uh,

1825
01:56:59,440 --> 01:57:04,440
Speaker 1: like ample, Kansas State would always beat Texas, Kansas State

1826
01:57:04,520 --> 01:57:07,760
Speaker 1: would always beat Texas. Well, let me just tell you

1827
01:57:07,880 --> 01:57:11,400
Speaker 1: something that Bill Snyder coached all those teams. Bill Snyder's

1828
01:57:11,480 --> 01:57:14,800
Speaker 1: Texas team would never lose to Kansas State, you know

1829
01:57:14,840 --> 01:57:20,600
Speaker 1: what I mean? Um um uh. And then Texas always

1830
01:57:20,680 --> 01:57:25,280
Speaker 1: beat Nebraska and went out and now that'd be closer.

1831
01:57:25,360 --> 01:57:28,040
Speaker 1: If Bill Snyder coach both Texas and Nebraska, I don't

1832
01:57:28,080 --> 01:57:31,160
Speaker 1: know who to win that game. And then Nebraska always

1833
01:57:31,200 --> 01:57:34,040
Speaker 1: beat Kansas State. So it was always a strange triangle

1834
01:57:34,120 --> 01:57:37,640
Speaker 1: there that But Kansas State always got Texas. Texas always

1835
01:57:37,680 --> 01:57:40,920
Speaker 1: got Nebraska, no matter how, get Nebraska one, and then

1836
01:57:40,960 --> 01:57:46,760
Speaker 1: Nebraska always got Kansas State. But uh, but I'll tell

1837
01:57:46,800 --> 01:57:50,600
Speaker 1: you this, if Bill Snyder coached all those teams in

1838
01:57:50,680 --> 01:57:56,640
Speaker 1: the Big Twelve, uh, Kansas State would drop significantly and

1839
01:57:56,800 --> 01:58:00,360
Speaker 1: some of those teams would elevate some. Yeah, I mean,

1840
01:58:00,360 --> 01:58:02,640
Speaker 1: you could make an argument that Bill Snyder is as

1841
01:58:02,680 --> 01:58:05,160
Speaker 1: good of a college football coach as there's ever been

1842
01:58:05,360 --> 01:58:08,400
Speaker 1: if you look, you were talking about job status versus accomplishment.

1843
01:58:08,760 --> 01:58:12,200
Speaker 1: Kansas State basically doesn't have a football program at at

1844
01:58:12,240 --> 01:58:15,160
Speaker 1: all without Bill Snyder, and even when he left, they

1845
01:58:15,240 --> 01:58:18,680
Speaker 1: disappeared again. I mean, what he's accomplished there is every

1846
01:58:18,720 --> 01:58:21,400
Speaker 1: bit as legendary, is almost what any coach would have

1847
01:58:21,400 --> 01:58:24,440
Speaker 1: accomplished in college football if you just look at it

1848
01:58:24,520 --> 01:58:26,880
Speaker 1: from a perspective of what he's achieved relative to the

1849
01:58:26,960 --> 01:58:32,080
Speaker 1: past historic achievement of the school. Oh, I agree, I agree.

1850
01:58:32,160 --> 01:58:35,040
Speaker 1: And then and you know, and and he he was

1851
01:58:35,080 --> 01:58:38,400
Speaker 1: always very gracious. I could always call him and and

1852
01:58:39,400 --> 01:58:42,360
Speaker 1: and in on. In a lot of people's eyes, we

1853
01:58:42,440 --> 01:58:44,880
Speaker 1: don't have much in common, and maybe we don't, but

1854
01:58:45,000 --> 01:58:48,000
Speaker 1: he is always very gracious as far as I could

1855
01:58:48,040 --> 01:58:51,160
Speaker 1: call him and ask him any organizational question I had

1856
01:58:51,320 --> 01:58:54,320
Speaker 1: or that type of thing, And yeah, he's just brilliant,

1857
01:58:54,600 --> 01:58:57,560
Speaker 1: you know, just a brilliant guy. Fox Sports Radio has

1858
01:58:57,600 --> 01:59:00,520
Speaker 1: the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all

1859
01:59:00,560 --> 01:59:03,760
Speaker 1: of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot com and

1860
01:59:03,960 --> 01:59:06,560
Speaker 1: within the I Heart Radio app search f s are

1861
01:59:06,680 --> 01:59:09,720
Speaker 1: to listen live. Last couple of questions for you, and

1862
01:59:09,760 --> 01:59:11,400
Speaker 1: I know I appreciate all the time we're talking with

1863
01:59:11,520 --> 01:59:15,040
Speaker 1: the Washington State head football coach Mike leach Um, What

1864
01:59:15,240 --> 01:59:17,760
Speaker 1: is your day like when it's football season? I always

1865
01:59:17,800 --> 01:59:20,520
Speaker 1: like to ask people what their day is like, what

1866
01:59:20,680 --> 01:59:23,600
Speaker 1: their week is like? How many when it's actual football season,

1867
01:59:23,960 --> 01:59:26,120
Speaker 1: how many hours a week will you work to get

1868
01:59:26,160 --> 01:59:28,040
Speaker 1: ready for a game plan and be ready to coach

1869
01:59:28,120 --> 01:59:36,520
Speaker 1: on Saturday? Which day is it? Yeah? You play like

1870
01:59:36,680 --> 01:59:38,440
Speaker 1: you play a bowl game. Let's say you play your

1871
01:59:38,480 --> 01:59:42,080
Speaker 1: ball game on Tuesday. Not screw that backing off on Tuesday.

1872
01:59:42,160 --> 01:59:48,240
Speaker 1: Tuesday immediately becomes Saturday, Monday immediately becomes Friday, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

1873
01:59:49,200 --> 01:59:54,520
Speaker 1: I operate based on uh, Saturday being game day? What

1874
01:59:55,280 --> 01:59:58,200
Speaker 1: so what day you talking about? Yeah? Like for the

1875
01:59:58,280 --> 02:00:00,760
Speaker 1: week though, like leading up to a set Saturday game day,

1876
02:00:00,760 --> 02:00:03,000
Speaker 1: Would you work eighty hours? Would you work a hundred

1877
02:00:03,960 --> 02:00:07,720
Speaker 1: cra crazy hours? Okay? So so I get in late?

1878
02:00:08,240 --> 02:00:11,200
Speaker 1: Are I get in late and leave late? Okay? And

1879
02:00:11,320 --> 02:00:15,960
Speaker 1: we've joked before that our places and in twenty four

1880
02:00:16,040 --> 02:00:20,960
Speaker 1: hours a day. Um, because those defensive guys get in

1881
02:00:21,080 --> 02:00:24,520
Speaker 1: early and I guess they take a CS to the

1882
02:00:24,640 --> 02:00:28,520
Speaker 1: middle of the day or something, and then, um, so

1883
02:00:28,640 --> 02:00:33,640
Speaker 1: they're getting crazy early. And then they and they don't

1884
02:00:33,760 --> 02:00:37,040
Speaker 1: stay as late as we do on offense, but they're

1885
02:00:37,040 --> 02:00:40,840
Speaker 1: in they're crazy early because and um and I know

1886
02:00:41,000 --> 02:00:43,920
Speaker 1: it's real fashionable for football to get in early, but

1887
02:00:44,680 --> 02:00:47,120
Speaker 1: you know, I'm a task granted guy. I wanted to

1888
02:00:47,200 --> 02:00:50,760
Speaker 1: happen in a chunk. I've never bought into those, uh,

1889
02:00:51,600 --> 02:00:54,520
Speaker 1: because I think you know, you you lose some momentum

1890
02:00:54,600 --> 02:00:58,680
Speaker 1: when you load, when you load and unload, you know

1891
02:00:58,720 --> 02:01:02,000
Speaker 1: what I mean. And so I hate that, you know,

1892
02:01:02,120 --> 02:01:07,480
Speaker 1: set and reset type of stuff. Like everybody says, Okay, uh, well,

1893
02:01:07,600 --> 02:01:10,240
Speaker 1: after you work an hour, you need a fifteen minute break.

1894
02:01:10,320 --> 02:01:13,840
Speaker 1: I don't buy that, you know, screw that. And I

1895
02:01:13,880 --> 02:01:16,160
Speaker 1: don't want a fifteen minute break because I'm gonna be here.

1896
02:01:16,520 --> 02:01:19,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be here forever. If I'm taking fifteen minute breaks,

1897
02:01:19,680 --> 02:01:26,760
Speaker 1: you know. Um uh, you know, take a fifteen minute break. Uh,

1898
02:01:27,360 --> 02:01:30,240
Speaker 1: take a take a fifteen minute break while you're sitting

1899
02:01:30,280 --> 02:01:34,040
Speaker 1: here watching the next play or whatever, you know, or

1900
02:01:34,920 --> 02:01:39,360
Speaker 1: you know, get a tea or get a water, you know, Um,

1901
02:01:39,800 --> 02:01:44,120
Speaker 1: do whatever you need to do. But and so so on. Okay,

1902
02:01:44,200 --> 02:01:48,600
Speaker 1: So let's say we've just played. We just played on Saturday. Okay,

1903
02:01:48,720 --> 02:01:53,520
Speaker 1: so Sunday, I get there, and it depends if we

1904
02:01:53,680 --> 02:01:57,440
Speaker 1: played at night or hourly we played, but I get

1905
02:01:57,480 --> 02:02:04,560
Speaker 1: there around noone. Okay, then uh, you want what I

1906
02:02:04,640 --> 02:02:07,640
Speaker 1: do or just general hours. Yeah, no, I'm curious in

1907
02:02:07,720 --> 02:02:11,640
Speaker 1: the whole process. Okay, Okay, So now I get in.

1908
02:02:11,760 --> 02:02:14,400
Speaker 1: I watched and I've probably watched it before. I probably

1909
02:02:14,440 --> 02:02:17,160
Speaker 1: watched it the night before. I watched the game that

1910
02:02:17,280 --> 02:02:20,800
Speaker 1: we played, the previous game we played. Okay. Then, uh,

1911
02:02:21,120 --> 02:02:23,040
Speaker 1: then we'll have a meeting with the staff. We have

1912
02:02:23,120 --> 02:02:25,400
Speaker 1: a discussion on what we saw in the game, what

1913
02:02:25,560 --> 02:02:28,160
Speaker 1: was good, what was bad, what we've got to improve,

1914
02:02:28,400 --> 02:02:31,880
Speaker 1: what we've got to change. The staff information. Then also

1915
02:02:32,040 --> 02:02:34,800
Speaker 1: what needs to be said to the team would be addressed.

1916
02:02:35,680 --> 02:02:39,520
Speaker 1: Some of those suggestions I accept some of them, like uh,

1917
02:02:40,320 --> 02:02:42,000
Speaker 1: you know, I don't, but I want to hear it

1918
02:02:42,120 --> 02:02:45,160
Speaker 1: because it's very important to hear it. And I hate

1919
02:02:45,640 --> 02:02:47,720
Speaker 1: I hate guys that try to tell you what you

1920
02:02:47,800 --> 02:02:51,760
Speaker 1: want to hear, because that's useless information. I mean, uh,

1921
02:02:53,360 --> 02:02:55,400
Speaker 1: I mean what I want to hear? What good is that?

1922
02:02:55,560 --> 02:02:58,280
Speaker 1: I mean, that didn't help me evaluate, reset my ideas,

1923
02:02:58,880 --> 02:03:02,000
Speaker 1: think about anything. That's why this political correct bullshit is

1924
02:03:02,080 --> 02:03:06,959
Speaker 1: so dangerous. I mean, nobody has the opportunity to reset

1925
02:03:07,240 --> 02:03:12,560
Speaker 1: and and find their way to the best possible solution.

1926
02:03:13,200 --> 02:03:15,840
Speaker 1: If people are going to run around and regulate what

1927
02:03:16,040 --> 02:03:18,000
Speaker 1: you say and what you think, that, I mean, that

1928
02:03:18,200 --> 02:03:23,640
Speaker 1: is so counterproductive to any any effort to move the

1929
02:03:23,760 --> 02:03:26,800
Speaker 1: needle and get a better idea. So anyway, I hate

1930
02:03:26,840 --> 02:03:28,920
Speaker 1: the guys that are are gonna say and I don't

1931
02:03:28,960 --> 02:03:32,080
Speaker 1: have any like that. You know, and you know, coach,

1932
02:03:32,160 --> 02:03:34,400
Speaker 1: have you ever thought about this? And it's like, well,

1933
02:03:34,440 --> 02:03:36,800
Speaker 1: I'll disagree with that, but I'll analyze it, think about

1934
02:03:36,840 --> 02:03:39,720
Speaker 1: it why and maybe there's some modified version of that

1935
02:03:39,880 --> 02:03:43,320
Speaker 1: that's very good. Or maybe I'm totally wrong and need

1936
02:03:43,440 --> 02:03:46,760
Speaker 1: to switch it, okay, um, And maybe I make the

1937
02:03:46,840 --> 02:03:50,720
Speaker 1: wrong choice and and don't follow it, or make the

1938
02:03:50,760 --> 02:03:53,520
Speaker 1: wrong choice and do follow it. But either way you

1939
02:03:53,640 --> 02:03:57,440
Speaker 1: have to be exposed to and have a chance and

1940
02:03:57,560 --> 02:04:01,760
Speaker 1: approving improving your thoughts or idea is well, you know,

1941
02:04:02,240 --> 02:04:07,240
Speaker 1: political correctness destroys all that, and so it's a bad

1942
02:04:07,360 --> 02:04:09,280
Speaker 1: thing our country is going through and I hate that.

1943
02:04:10,120 --> 02:04:14,160
Speaker 1: And then um, and so anyway, so I want to

1944
02:04:14,200 --> 02:04:17,760
Speaker 1: hear it. Everybody thinks so and then you know, you know,

1945
02:04:17,880 --> 02:04:19,920
Speaker 1: if we agree on everything, that's good as long as

1946
02:04:19,920 --> 02:04:24,440
Speaker 1: they're honest opinions. But um, the ones that are correct,

1947
02:04:25,280 --> 02:04:30,480
Speaker 1: there's something I haven't thought of that are uh, something

1948
02:04:30,520 --> 02:04:34,440
Speaker 1: I haven't thought of or contradictory to what I thought,

1949
02:04:34,520 --> 02:04:37,480
Speaker 1: providing its correct or well thought out, those are the

1950
02:04:37,520 --> 02:04:41,440
Speaker 1: ones that are value Okay, So then we put together

1951
02:04:41,480 --> 02:04:44,440
Speaker 1: a plan altogether and everybody supports the plan. If they

1952
02:04:44,480 --> 02:04:47,480
Speaker 1: don't support it, then you need to either rehabilitate them

1953
02:04:47,560 --> 02:04:52,000
Speaker 1: or get rid of them. But um, so then uh,

1954
02:04:52,720 --> 02:04:56,000
Speaker 1: we have a team meeting, which is relatively short, where

1955
02:04:56,080 --> 02:04:59,160
Speaker 1: we address the game and what needs to be improved

1956
02:04:59,200 --> 02:05:04,600
Speaker 1: on going for okay, then as uh uh, well, after

1957
02:05:04,680 --> 02:05:08,400
Speaker 1: after the coaches meeting, then offensive staff stays, we watched

1958
02:05:08,440 --> 02:05:12,280
Speaker 1: the film together, make our changes. Then at four um

1959
02:05:13,080 --> 02:05:15,480
Speaker 1: team meeting for about fifteen twenty minutes. Then we have

1960
02:05:15,560 --> 02:05:19,560
Speaker 1: a staff meeting. All right, not a share. Let's start

1961
02:05:19,640 --> 02:05:23,000
Speaker 1: this over because I got you so confused, because I'm

1962
02:05:23,040 --> 02:05:28,520
Speaker 1: confused myself. Okay, get in at noon. H I either

1963
02:05:28,600 --> 02:05:30,640
Speaker 1: watched the film or have watched the film. May watch

1964
02:05:30,720 --> 02:05:34,240
Speaker 1: it with the offensive staff. Okay. We make our corrections,

1965
02:05:34,280 --> 02:05:39,480
Speaker 1: and we get together uh ah somewhere around to the

1966
02:05:39,600 --> 02:05:45,440
Speaker 1: offensive or the entire staff. Everybody says their piece. Okay,

1967
02:05:45,680 --> 02:05:48,480
Speaker 1: and then at four I meet the team. After that

1968
02:05:48,600 --> 02:05:50,600
Speaker 1: we have position meetings where you go through it with

1969
02:05:50,720 --> 02:05:54,080
Speaker 1: your position. Sometimes you might meet the whole offense or

1970
02:05:54,120 --> 02:05:56,680
Speaker 1: the whole defense, or the whole team if there's something

1971
02:05:57,120 --> 02:06:00,640
Speaker 1: agreedious that you really need to sort out, okay, but

1972
02:06:00,800 --> 02:06:04,680
Speaker 1: generally position. Then we eat dinner. Then early in the

1973
02:06:04,760 --> 02:06:08,240
Speaker 1: season we practice for an hour helmets and shorts and

1974
02:06:08,440 --> 02:06:14,320
Speaker 1: really it's uh to run through corrections for the previous game.

1975
02:06:15,320 --> 02:06:20,440
Speaker 1: Um and then uh uh and then we introduced uh

1976
02:06:20,800 --> 02:06:23,600
Speaker 1: some of the looks for the next game. Okay. Then

1977
02:06:23,960 --> 02:06:28,760
Speaker 1: off the field at uh oh, about eight thirty or nine.

1978
02:06:31,080 --> 02:06:33,040
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think when we start. I think we

1979
02:06:33,120 --> 02:06:36,760
Speaker 1: started eight, so we're off at nine, okay, So then uh,

1980
02:06:37,520 --> 02:06:40,240
Speaker 1: then I immediately start watching the next opponent in the

1981
02:06:40,360 --> 02:06:44,360
Speaker 1: cut ups, which I will not finish. I'll get as

1982
02:06:44,400 --> 02:06:50,440
Speaker 1: far along as I possibly can, and then um uh

1983
02:06:50,520 --> 02:06:53,200
Speaker 1: and I'll get out of there, usually around one am

1984
02:06:53,280 --> 02:06:57,920
Speaker 1: or two, okay. And then the next morning, um, somewhere

1985
02:06:57,960 --> 02:07:02,360
Speaker 1: around ten I started getting phone calls and media stuff,

1986
02:07:02,400 --> 02:07:05,640
Speaker 1: so I answer the media, do the media stuff. Then

1987
02:07:05,680 --> 02:07:10,400
Speaker 1: I have a press conference around uh one, So I

1988
02:07:10,840 --> 02:07:17,440
Speaker 1: walk in, do the press conference uh, and then go

1989
02:07:17,640 --> 02:07:20,600
Speaker 1: up in there and continue to slam through film all

1990
02:07:20,640 --> 02:07:24,440
Speaker 1: the different cutups of our opponent. Uh, and start writing

1991
02:07:24,480 --> 02:07:28,080
Speaker 1: a game plan and start making notes. Okay, that'll take me,

1992
02:07:28,160 --> 02:07:32,520
Speaker 1: and tell about ten pm. It can take longer, it

1993
02:07:32,640 --> 02:07:35,440
Speaker 1: can take shorter, but it's more likely to take longer

1994
02:07:35,560 --> 02:07:40,560
Speaker 1: than shorter. Ten pm. When I finish up my end,

1995
02:07:40,640 --> 02:07:44,480
Speaker 1: we bring the whole staff in staff or the offensive staff.

1996
02:07:45,120 --> 02:07:47,720
Speaker 1: Offensive staff comes in. We put all the plays on

1997
02:07:47,800 --> 02:07:51,040
Speaker 1: the board. The hard part isn't putting plays on the board.

1998
02:07:51,120 --> 02:07:54,800
Speaker 1: The hard part is figuring out what plays to cut off,

1999
02:07:55,840 --> 02:07:58,600
Speaker 1: what plays to focus on, what plays to run. So

2000
02:07:59,240 --> 02:08:02,600
Speaker 1: it's a series figuring out what to cut Okay, So

2001
02:08:02,800 --> 02:08:10,560
Speaker 1: we do that and then um somewhere around one in

2002
02:08:10,800 --> 02:08:14,520
Speaker 1: four am, the game plan is complete, and it's a

2003
02:08:14,600 --> 02:08:18,000
Speaker 1: game plan for the week, because I'm not a guy

2004
02:08:18,080 --> 02:08:20,200
Speaker 1: that puts a sliver in. As the week goes on,

2005
02:08:20,360 --> 02:08:24,880
Speaker 1: a little here, a little there, and it's done. Okay.

2006
02:08:25,040 --> 02:08:28,560
Speaker 1: Sometimes I might walk home, sometimes I go if I

2007
02:08:28,680 --> 02:08:32,320
Speaker 1: walk home. Occasionally there will be some people that think

2008
02:08:32,400 --> 02:08:36,360
Speaker 1: it's the craziest stuff they've ever seen. Coach Leach is

2009
02:08:36,440 --> 02:08:38,880
Speaker 1: that you, well, I can give you a ride. Well,

2010
02:08:38,960 --> 02:08:41,360
Speaker 1: you know what's snowing out, you know. I I to think,

2011
02:08:41,760 --> 02:08:44,160
Speaker 1: and then I said, well, now I need exercise, you know,

2012
02:08:44,960 --> 02:08:49,880
Speaker 1: and so I got, uh continue the journey continues, and

2013
02:08:50,040 --> 02:08:57,760
Speaker 1: so then um uh and then on UM Tuesday, we

2014
02:08:57,920 --> 02:09:01,320
Speaker 1: have a meeting at eleven AM. So that's the whole staff.

2015
02:09:01,360 --> 02:09:03,360
Speaker 1: And I get in there about eleven and we've got

2016
02:09:03,440 --> 02:09:08,000
Speaker 1: the whole staff in there. Uh talk about the upcoming game,

2017
02:09:08,080 --> 02:09:11,440
Speaker 1: talk about what we need to say to the team, uh,

2018
02:09:13,720 --> 02:09:17,560
Speaker 1: you know, team for the week. Um, and then UH

2019
02:09:17,960 --> 02:09:22,920
Speaker 1: make some notes, go through the practice schedule, which didn't

2020
02:09:22,920 --> 02:09:25,120
Speaker 1: takes long because we're not a team that changed our

2021
02:09:25,160 --> 02:09:28,800
Speaker 1: practice schedule all the time. I mean, we can go

2022
02:09:28,960 --> 02:09:31,920
Speaker 1: down the hall talk to somebody, but we're probably doing

2023
02:09:32,000 --> 02:09:35,360
Speaker 1: our our Tuesday probably looks like Tuesday ten years ago,

2024
02:09:35,560 --> 02:09:41,480
Speaker 1: yet with a slight exception, okay. And then so then

2025
02:09:42,360 --> 02:09:47,720
Speaker 1: we uh, then the players come in uh uh Well,

2026
02:09:47,760 --> 02:09:51,800
Speaker 1: then we have the meeting, which is short, then position meeting,

2027
02:09:52,360 --> 02:09:57,960
Speaker 1: uh which I'm cranking away on that, and and with

2028
02:09:58,120 --> 02:10:01,480
Speaker 1: the quarterbacks going through the game play, covering the game

2029
02:10:01,560 --> 02:10:05,800
Speaker 1: plan uh as specifically as we can through the cutups,

2030
02:10:06,080 --> 02:10:09,880
Speaker 1: illustrating what we're thinking with the plays we selected, and

2031
02:10:10,080 --> 02:10:13,560
Speaker 1: then we hit the practice field. Tuesday is the longest

2032
02:10:13,640 --> 02:10:19,120
Speaker 1: practice of the week helmets and pads. It goes for

2033
02:10:19,400 --> 02:10:21,880
Speaker 1: an hour and fifty minutes, but it's the longest one

2034
02:10:21,920 --> 02:10:26,720
Speaker 1: of the week, and so we like short practice is fast.

2035
02:10:26,840 --> 02:10:30,400
Speaker 1: If you were to characterize our team, our meetings are

2036
02:10:30,480 --> 02:10:35,560
Speaker 1: probably longer than average, in our practices are shorter than average.

2037
02:10:36,400 --> 02:10:42,040
Speaker 1: And then um uh because I've got to save their

2038
02:10:42,120 --> 02:10:45,000
Speaker 1: bodies because you know, I'm not like some of the

2039
02:10:45,080 --> 02:10:47,960
Speaker 1: teams in our conference. I'm not like two and three deep.

2040
02:10:48,040 --> 02:10:52,680
Speaker 1: We're like one and a half deep, Okay, and uh

2041
02:10:53,000 --> 02:10:55,560
Speaker 1: so we've got to keep people fresh. And then um

2042
02:10:55,960 --> 02:10:58,720
Speaker 1: and so which means limited reps, which means more mental

2043
02:10:58,800 --> 02:11:07,280
Speaker 1: reps of so. Then um and then on Wednesday, oh wait,

2044
02:11:07,360 --> 02:11:10,760
Speaker 1: wait wait, I'm sorry. So after practice, straight to dinner,

2045
02:11:11,840 --> 02:11:15,840
Speaker 1: after dinner, straight in there as a coaching staff, we

2046
02:11:16,040 --> 02:11:20,680
Speaker 1: watch all the film from practice, every everything, you know,

2047
02:11:20,760 --> 02:11:24,960
Speaker 1: old line, the whole thing. And then in between their drills,

2048
02:11:25,040 --> 02:11:27,880
Speaker 1: guys will be on the phone calling recruits. They get

2049
02:11:27,920 --> 02:11:29,960
Speaker 1: a recruit on the phone where they want other people

2050
02:11:30,040 --> 02:11:32,440
Speaker 1: to talk to them or me freeze the film talk

2051
02:11:32,520 --> 02:11:37,280
Speaker 1: to recruits. So it goes and so kind of multitasking

2052
02:11:37,400 --> 02:11:42,800
Speaker 1: recruiting and watching films. Okay. Then we're out probably around

2053
02:11:42,920 --> 02:11:48,880
Speaker 1: nine pm okay, and then um, and then I walk

2054
02:11:48,960 --> 02:11:57,160
Speaker 1: home there okay, so then uh uh and then Wednesday,

2055
02:11:58,200 --> 02:12:07,080
Speaker 1: get in and around probably noon, um, probably noon. And

2056
02:12:07,200 --> 02:12:10,680
Speaker 1: you this is this is amazingly detail. But you'll spend

2057
02:12:10,800 --> 02:12:12,400
Speaker 1: I mean, what do you think it is? A hundred

2058
02:12:12,480 --> 02:12:15,280
Speaker 1: hours getting ready for a game during a week? O

2059
02:12:15,520 --> 02:12:18,920
Speaker 1: more than that? More than I mean? How many hours

2060
02:12:19,000 --> 02:12:21,320
Speaker 1: will you sleep at night while you're getting ready during

2061
02:12:21,320 --> 02:12:26,080
Speaker 1: football season getting ready for a game? Well, Sunday and Monday,

2062
02:12:26,160 --> 02:12:30,320
Speaker 1: not very many, Tuesday and Wednesday and Thursday? More? Uh

2063
02:12:31,720 --> 02:12:36,440
Speaker 1: uh good? Good sleep Saturday if we have a night game, um,

2064
02:12:38,240 --> 02:12:43,320
Speaker 1: and then uh, well, in Thursday we have another staff

2065
02:12:43,400 --> 02:12:46,440
Speaker 1: meeting and that's at one, so then the staff may

2066
02:12:46,560 --> 02:12:49,920
Speaker 1: get in there. One academics is there. We talked to

2067
02:12:49,960 --> 02:12:52,320
Speaker 1: academics about where our players are at. We talked about

2068
02:12:52,360 --> 02:12:58,680
Speaker 1: the itinerary. We talked about oh, Wednesday after practice. Then

2069
02:12:58,720 --> 02:13:01,000
Speaker 1: that practice is an hour forty minutes. Then we go

2070
02:13:01,120 --> 02:13:05,000
Speaker 1: to dinner and then we come we watched the film.

2071
02:13:05,240 --> 02:13:07,320
Speaker 1: Then we're out of there about eight thirty because it's

2072
02:13:07,360 --> 02:13:12,080
Speaker 1: a shorter practice. And then Thursday, get there around noon

2073
02:13:14,000 --> 02:13:16,600
Speaker 1: and then we have a meeting at one academics and

2074
02:13:16,720 --> 02:13:22,560
Speaker 1: nineteerary for the game. And then um and that this

2075
02:13:22,800 --> 02:13:26,320
Speaker 1: practice is helmets and shorts and it's a relatively short

2076
02:13:26,440 --> 02:13:30,960
Speaker 1: practice and where we're polishing for the game, so fast

2077
02:13:31,080 --> 02:13:35,480
Speaker 1: everything fast, crowd noise, that type of thing. And then

2078
02:13:35,840 --> 02:13:40,440
Speaker 1: um the first part special team so and then and

2079
02:13:40,560 --> 02:13:43,720
Speaker 1: then um at the end, I keep the young guys,

2080
02:13:43,800 --> 02:13:47,560
Speaker 1: we've practiced them a little longer, and we pad them up.

2081
02:13:48,560 --> 02:13:51,320
Speaker 1: And then I go do my radio show, which starts

2082
02:13:51,560 --> 02:13:56,960
Speaker 1: at I think it's a it's a six or seven,

2083
02:13:57,080 --> 02:13:59,440
Speaker 1: let's see. I get out there, but I think it

2084
02:13:59,560 --> 02:14:03,400
Speaker 1: starts sex okay, So then I do my radio show

2085
02:14:04,640 --> 02:14:09,000
Speaker 1: and then uh, after the radio show, I'm done and

2086
02:14:09,160 --> 02:14:14,800
Speaker 1: then UM and then Friday, depending if we're on the

2087
02:14:14,960 --> 02:14:18,760
Speaker 1: road or for at home. If we're on the road,

2088
02:14:18,840 --> 02:14:23,960
Speaker 1: it depends when we uh catch the plane, but there

2089
02:14:23,960 --> 02:14:28,920
Speaker 1: will be a series of meetings before we catch the plane.

2090
02:14:29,000 --> 02:14:31,400
Speaker 1: Then you catch the plane, then you go to the

2091
02:14:31,480 --> 02:14:34,480
Speaker 1: place and we'll have a walk through there at the location,

2092
02:14:35,520 --> 02:14:40,400
Speaker 1: and then dinner meeting. Okay, so if it's at home,

2093
02:14:42,000 --> 02:14:46,760
Speaker 1: first meetings at two, so I get there too, special

2094
02:14:46,840 --> 02:14:50,360
Speaker 1: teams meeting, some drills down there on the field, which

2095
02:14:50,560 --> 02:14:54,080
Speaker 1: the whole thing takes about twenty minutes. Drills and walk

2096
02:14:54,160 --> 02:14:58,880
Speaker 1: throughs on the field. Uh in in in shorts, just

2097
02:15:01,000 --> 02:15:04,600
Speaker 1: T shirt and shorts, and then uh and then go

2098
02:15:04,800 --> 02:15:10,160
Speaker 1: eat uh like uh eat a good meal. It's a

2099
02:15:10,240 --> 02:15:14,280
Speaker 1: really good meal. And then uh we go to the hotel,

2100
02:15:15,240 --> 02:15:17,560
Speaker 1: We go to the movie. We come back from the movie,

2101
02:15:17,680 --> 02:15:21,680
Speaker 1: we have a team meeting, and then Thursday we watched

2102
02:15:22,040 --> 02:15:27,320
Speaker 1: some film of our preparation for our opponent. Uh, then

2103
02:15:27,400 --> 02:15:31,160
Speaker 1: have a snack and then go to bed. And then Saturday.

2104
02:15:31,200 --> 02:15:34,000
Speaker 1: It did varies based on when we play, but long

2105
02:15:34,120 --> 02:15:37,920
Speaker 1: story short, if it's a long day, we'll have meetings

2106
02:15:38,000 --> 02:15:41,360
Speaker 1: in between. If it's a short day, will same meetings,

2107
02:15:41,440 --> 02:15:44,560
Speaker 1: but we'll hurry him up and in and out the

2108
02:15:44,720 --> 02:15:48,400
Speaker 1: same routine though that's incredibly detailed. Last question for you

2109
02:15:48,840 --> 02:15:50,920
Speaker 1: if there's a lot of college kids. There's a lot

2110
02:15:50,960 --> 02:15:53,360
Speaker 1: of people who are young that listen to this podcast

2111
02:15:53,920 --> 02:15:56,160
Speaker 1: regardless of what they want to do. But let's say

2112
02:15:56,200 --> 02:15:58,440
Speaker 1: they want to get into coaching, what would you tell

2113
02:15:58,520 --> 02:16:02,480
Speaker 1: them the biggest thing? Well, first of all, make sure

2114
02:16:02,480 --> 02:16:07,040
Speaker 1: you're passionate about it. Uh, study everything you can get,

2115
02:16:07,120 --> 02:16:09,240
Speaker 1: which is a lot easier now than when I got in,

2116
02:16:09,440 --> 02:16:12,760
Speaker 1: because when I got in, it was right there the

2117
02:16:12,800 --> 02:16:15,400
Speaker 1: tail end of the sixteen millimeter. Now, if you think

2118
02:16:15,440 --> 02:16:20,440
Speaker 1: about the sixteen millimeter, um, only a few people had copies,

2119
02:16:21,000 --> 02:16:25,480
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, uh, they were probably I don't know,

2120
02:16:26,240 --> 02:16:30,960
Speaker 1: six copies on the staff, and then the opponent that

2121
02:16:31,120 --> 02:16:34,280
Speaker 1: they're going to play that week at several copies. But

2122
02:16:34,400 --> 02:16:38,440
Speaker 1: your players didn't. You know. Um, this isn't a deal

2123
02:16:38,520 --> 02:16:44,880
Speaker 1: where um you know, Um, it's not on YouTube. You

2124
02:16:44,920 --> 02:16:48,959
Speaker 1: can't just go watch every No, I mean now you can.

2125
02:16:49,240 --> 02:16:52,400
Speaker 1: You can get game after game play after playing the

2126
02:16:52,480 --> 02:16:55,520
Speaker 1: instructional stuff. Now, some of the instructional stuff, I'll see

2127
02:16:56,200 --> 02:16:58,400
Speaker 1: some of the instructional stuff on what we're trying to

2128
02:16:58,520 --> 02:17:02,119
Speaker 1: do and the guy's crazy and then um, and then

2129
02:17:02,360 --> 02:17:06,720
Speaker 1: I'll see some other ones and um, you know, sometimes

2130
02:17:06,760 --> 02:17:08,720
Speaker 1: I wonder if we're better off with that guy telling

2131
02:17:08,760 --> 02:17:12,920
Speaker 1: our guys that me but and then and then um,

2132
02:17:14,280 --> 02:17:20,400
Speaker 1: but the yeah you have that, and then you have uhum.

2133
02:17:20,640 --> 02:17:23,879
Speaker 1: So there's all kinds of stuff to study, but nothing

2134
02:17:24,280 --> 02:17:27,120
Speaker 1: is more important and persistent. I mean, you know, you

2135
02:17:27,280 --> 02:17:30,680
Speaker 1: just have to refuse to leave. And I'm not a

2136
02:17:30,720 --> 02:17:33,360
Speaker 1: big Woody Allen movie guy, but he says, what does

2137
02:17:33,400 --> 02:17:38,199
Speaker 1: he say, ninety percent or or eighty percent of life

2138
02:17:38,280 --> 02:17:41,520
Speaker 1: is showing up. Make sure you're getting all that you know,

2139
02:17:42,480 --> 02:17:48,600
Speaker 1: and then um, uh you know. But then also it's

2140
02:17:48,640 --> 02:17:51,800
Speaker 1: like you know, John Madden, make sure you're passionate. Budje

2141
02:17:51,959 --> 02:17:57,920
Speaker 1: Mad said, uh. He says, you know, here he quoted

2142
02:17:57,959 --> 02:17:59,840
Speaker 1: the quote if you do something you love, you never

2143
02:18:00,000 --> 02:18:01,800
Speaker 1: have to work a day in your life. And he says,

2144
02:18:01,840 --> 02:18:05,240
Speaker 1: I think about it. He says, if you think about it,

2145
02:18:05,280 --> 02:18:08,600
Speaker 1: I've never had a job. And then he says uh.

2146
02:18:09,400 --> 02:18:13,160
Speaker 1: And then he says uh. And then he talks about

2147
02:18:14,040 --> 02:18:17,200
Speaker 1: you know, you see the same people going up as

2148
02:18:17,240 --> 02:18:20,640
Speaker 1: you do going down. He says, he says, the road

2149
02:18:20,720 --> 02:18:23,959
Speaker 1: to success runs right through the gutter and with her exception,

2150
02:18:24,080 --> 02:18:30,240
Speaker 1: that's true. So so brace yourself for that outstanding stuff.

2151
02:18:30,400 --> 02:18:33,160
Speaker 1: As always, Mike Leach. You can follow him on Twitter,

2152
02:18:33,560 --> 02:18:35,920
Speaker 1: uh and I'll tweet out the link for this when

2153
02:18:35,959 --> 02:18:38,000
Speaker 1: it comes out. Make sure you thank him for coming

2154
02:18:38,040 --> 02:18:40,240
Speaker 1: on hanging out with us. Have a good time down

2155
02:18:40,280 --> 02:18:42,160
Speaker 1: in Key West. I know how busy you are now

2156
02:18:42,240 --> 02:18:44,320
Speaker 1: you like to have your time off. I appreciate you

2157
02:18:44,360 --> 02:18:47,360
Speaker 1: giving us the time you did. My man, all right, Well,

2158
02:18:47,360 --> 02:18:50,200
Speaker 1: it's always an honor to be on and uh and

2159
02:18:50,360 --> 02:18:53,640
Speaker 1: shoot anything anything I can ever do. Let me know,

2160
02:18:53,920 --> 02:18:57,360
Speaker 1: and anybody that wants to know more about me or

2161
02:18:57,400 --> 02:18:59,280
Speaker 1: what we do. I've got a couple of books out

2162
02:18:59,360 --> 02:19:03,040
Speaker 1: there and uh, the one on my path into coaching

2163
02:19:03,200 --> 02:19:06,720
Speaker 1: is Swing Your Sword so and it's on Amazon. Yeah

2164
02:19:06,840 --> 02:19:08,360
Speaker 1: for sure. And I need to get out to Pullman

2165
02:19:08,400 --> 02:19:10,240
Speaker 1: and see a game sometime. I'm gonna make it happen.

2166
02:19:11,080 --> 02:19:14,720
Speaker 1: Oh definitely. Uh, that's Mike Leach. I'm Clay Travis. This

2167
02:19:14,800 --> 02:19:18,320
Speaker 1: has been uh Wins and Losses. Subscribe to the podcast,

2168
02:19:18,440 --> 02:19:20,840
Speaker 1: go check out all the different episodes, and thanks again

2169
02:19:20,920 --> 02:19:23,480
Speaker 1: for his time. Thanks for hanging with us on Wins

2170
02:19:23,560 --> 02:19:24,160
Speaker 1: and Losses.